1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Cool Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,039 Speaker 1: Cool Stuff, a podcast that is sometimes recorded. Well, Margaret's 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: dog licks her hand and then Margaret has to move 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: her hand away from the dog, and then Margaret thinks, 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: rather than not have this be the introduction, it will 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: be the introduction. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: is Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. And my guest 8 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 1: is really Holland. 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: Hi. Hello, so deeply psyched to be here. Thanks for 10 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: having me. 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. And I'm like, oh, 12 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: I'm talking faster, and that's probably because I ate a 13 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: banana in between breaks. And one thing I like about 14 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: Crass is that they don't really do drugs or drink, 15 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: because I also don't. But then instead I eat sugar 16 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: and then my pace of talking begins to go up. 17 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: And that's so benign that you're like, You're like, sugar 18 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: rush is a banana. It wasn't like it wasn't like 19 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: a little Debbie or something. 20 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well I ran out of the sweets in my house. Besides, 21 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: fruit is what happened. And there's a snowstorm coming tomorrow 22 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: as I record this, so I will just be forced 23 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 1: to eat fruit, which is very good to deal with, Sugar. 24 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: But I think everyone probably knows who you are and 25 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: who I am by part four, and you might even, 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: dear listener, know who Crass is a little bit. But 27 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about them more because where we 28 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: last left off, they had started a band and then 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: an arcopunk had become a serious movement, only I hadn't 30 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: told you what it was doing yet. So as the 31 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: seventies closed, oh geez, what will I do without Sophie. 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,199 Speaker 1: Sophie's usually is our producer, but just isn't on the call, 33 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: and I almost forgot to say that Sophie's our producer, 34 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: and more importantly that everyone has to say hi to Rory, 35 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: our audio. 36 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 3: Engineer, Hi, Rory, Rory Hello. 37 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: And our theme music was written forced by a woman 38 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: who once got an entire steampunk convention kicked out of 39 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: a bar. It was actually funny because then un woman 40 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: was headlining the main stage of that particular convention, but 41 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: as a solo act, not as a terrible Crass cover band. 42 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: Anyway, I want to hear like rehearsal tapes of that band. 43 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: The best you can do is that there is a 44 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: version from that convention of all three of us playing 45 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: Bellachow from the main stage, and so I suspect that 46 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: if you look up Bellachow on Woman on YouTube, it 47 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: might still be there and you can. Why did I 48 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: just tell everyone that it was not my best but 49 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: anyway whatever. I used to make my music playing accordion 50 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: on the street, but I was never good at it. 51 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: I just didn't. I had an accordion and was broke. 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: The accordion is such a beautiful prop and that's all 53 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 2: you need. Do you see this, Hold a beautiful instrument 54 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: and be a beacon of sound. 55 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really good busking instrument because it is 56 00:02:55,400 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: loud and slightly. In punk scenes, it's like cliche. But 57 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: when you're out on the street, people are like, holy shit, 58 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: and accordion. I haven't seen one since my granddad's accordion. 59 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: And then they're like, here's a dollar, and I'm like, sweet, 60 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: thank you. And that's a thing that happens. 61 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: But that's all you need, just need them to give 62 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: you the money. 63 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. As the seventies closed the idea of punk 64 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: as a broad musical label that might include bands like 65 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: The Cure and Bauhaus. Right next to the slits and 66 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: the cockney rejects that ended specific subgenres started things started 67 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: getting very more like particular and specific, which is it 68 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: happens constantly to every genre, and it's both good and 69 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: bad and equal measure, you know. And one of the 70 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: main subgenres of punk, especially in the UK, was a 71 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: narco punk, which basically meant sounds like crass. There's also 72 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: OI that came out at around that time, which started off 73 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: pretty leftist but then has earned a right wing reputation 74 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: and is more into catchy songs and working class anthems. 75 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: And I really like OI. I have to admit it 76 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: is more my style and taste, not politically. But anyway, 77 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: there's some good oy bands. So this isn't a story 78 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: about OI. It's a story about anarco punk Crass. They 79 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: really did walk the walk. Their albums started selling rather well, 80 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: and they simply pooled all of their money and then 81 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: gave themselves about five hundred pounds a year as an allowance, 82 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: and then all lived in dial house together. And I 83 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: think that's like minus the like food and whatever stuff 84 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: they need, you know. 85 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: They gave themselves five hundred pounds a year to live on. 86 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: Well, I think they're living expenses is that they are 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: in Crass and live at Dial House, so it's like 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: five hundred pounds on top. 89 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 3: Of that it's a tip. 90 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, that's not enough. 91 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: You know. 92 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: In the end, I think they probably agreed. They didn't 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 1: let mass me do interviews with them besides like once 94 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: or twice if the if the interviewer like really proved them, 95 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: because they didn't have a rule like we won't do 96 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: mass media. They had a rule where like we have 97 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: to trust the journalists or whatever, and it's just like 98 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: they almost never did, and they gave fanzines interviews constantly, 99 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: and so they said no to basically every mainstream journalist 100 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: and yes to basically every fanzine. So fanzine sales started 101 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: rising dramatically and the number of fanzines started going through 102 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: the roof. They would spend every Tuesday answering fan mail. 103 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: They responded to about two hundred letters a week, and 104 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: they would like refuse to answer with like form letters, 105 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: so they'd just sit around and divvy up the letters 106 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: and write the people. 107 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: Can we imagine any big band doing anything like this? Now? 108 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: No? And this is like they are out selling ACDC 109 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: and they. 110 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: Are doing this, A that's amazing. 111 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be like I don't know whoever, I 112 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: don't I clearly don't know what we call it new. 113 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: I don't know who's currently the people who would be 114 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: comparable to. 115 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: But can you imagine, Okay, so if they were bigger 116 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 2: than ACDC at the time, can you imagine you're driving 117 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: across Utah or whatever and you turn on the radio 118 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: and it's crass and not ACDC. 119 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it can never be because they cuss so much. 120 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, but that same level of like they are 121 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: bigger despite being underground, so which is probably why they 122 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: have kind of a like being underground is better because 123 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: it's working for them, you know. 124 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 3: I imagine. 125 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think about different ways that artists could 126 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: draw lines with media, and yeah, one proposition is we 127 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 2: just talk about music because I feel like so much 128 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 2: music journalism is just all about. 129 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Gossip and oh yeah, totally, and it. 130 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 2: Often gets incredibly misogynistic. 131 00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could just be like, I will 132 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: only talk about my music or my political positions and 133 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: just like not talk about like who you're dating or whatever. 134 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: You know. 135 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've seen so sort of worse. 136 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: Like you know, I had this one band where one 137 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: of the bandmates admittedly had a fantastic beard, and literally 138 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 2: this interviewer only wanted. 139 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: To talk to the guitarist about his beard. 140 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: Oh my god, uh huh, yeah, it. 141 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 2: Gets it gets stupider than even like your proposal seemed 142 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: to suggest, or like late lately, I've seen and this 143 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: makes me. This is so upsetting to me. I've seen 144 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: press about bands like major press only talk about the 145 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: supposed mental health of the lead singer who is a woman. 146 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: Totally. 147 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's so depressing. 148 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, it's it's fantastically progressive. 149 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I love the like when I do interviews, when 150 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: I with Feminoschool, when we would do interviews, I loved 151 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: because it was almost always there was a couple mainstream 152 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: pieces about us, but not much. And just like the 153 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: fanzine journalists, especially like weird punk and metal fanzines from 154 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: Europe would have amazing questions even if it had to 155 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: be like translated in both directions or whatever, And so 156 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: Crass would spend Wednesdays Tuesdays answer letters. Wednesdays, fanzine journalists 157 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: would come over and a lot of people I think 158 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: only created fanzines literally as an excuse to meet and 159 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: talk to Krass, and they just let people do it. 160 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 1: They knew that was happening, they didn't care. That's great 161 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: and their stencyl campaign spread to listeners because they would 162 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: include stencils and the leaflets that they passed out and 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: teach people how to spray paint. And then in nineteen 164 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: eighty they released a benefit split with the Poison Girls 165 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: that was meant to benefit a bunch of anarchists who 166 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: are on trial because of this sum. There was this 167 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 1: case that was called the Person's Unknown Case, and I 168 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: don't have the full sense of it. It gets into 169 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: the Angry Brigade, it gets into Irish politics, it gets 170 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: into lots of complicated stuff, and I read a few 171 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: sources about it and they all kind of seemed to 172 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: disagree with each other about what it was about. But overall, 173 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: there was this case that happened where a bunch of 174 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: people were arrested as terrorists, including like some like like 175 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: an IRA person or a person accused of mean part 176 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: of the IRA was arrested and then accused of killing 177 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: Northern Irish cops, but then started being supported by anarchist 178 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: Black Cross and became an anarchist in jail. And there 179 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: was this whole thing where like it basically seems like 180 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: the UK cops were terrified that the IRA was going 181 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: to move more anarchists, and they started like rounding people 182 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: up or whatever. And four people got put on trial 183 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: or five I've read both by different sources, and having 184 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: anarchist literature was considered proof of guilt in this case 185 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: that was happening. So Crass and Poison Girls released a 186 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: benefit for the person's unknown case and the name comes 187 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: from the persons were known, the four people who are 188 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: on trial or the five people are on trial, but 189 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: they were accused of conspiring with persons unknown. So literally 190 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: it was a case where like, you are being accused 191 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: of conspiring with we don't know who about, we don't 192 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: know what. 193 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: Oh that sounds extremely illegal. 194 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and shockingly including in Thatcher's fucking UK. The defendants 195 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: were all found not guilty, or four of them were 196 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: on one of them, I keep keep again, I read 197 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of different things whatever, and so they were like, Okay, 198 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: we don't need this ten thousand pounds we just raised, 199 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: and so they they looked at Northern Ireland, which had 200 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: an anarchist center, which I want to know more about. 201 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: I want to know more about Northern Ireland as being 202 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: kind of a center of UK anarchism for a while. 203 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: And they were like, London should have an anarchist center, 204 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: and we have ten thousand pounds. So they opened a 205 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: short lived place called the Autonomy Center. Only they spelled 206 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: center wrong because they're British and they don't know a spell, 207 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: and they I had to make at least one joke 208 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 1: about this. It's just I'm constitutionally incapable of not making 209 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: fun of the British. 210 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: Got to talk some shit. 211 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it was a rented warehouse space that they 212 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 1: shared with an anarchist print collective called Little A. Every 213 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: Sunday they put on punk shows six bands for a pound, 214 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: and like people would come over it, you know, and 215 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: they made their money on that by beer sales, basically. 216 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: Steve Ignorant complains later about how it was all just 217 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of people sitting around talking about Bakunin. So 218 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: he didn't really like the Autonomy Center very much. 219 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 3: Boring. 220 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, that the place that once a week you 221 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: get to go see six bands for a pound and 222 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: drink like whatever. Anyway, the Autonomy Center itself only lasted 223 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: about six months, but this version of social centers spread also. 224 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty, You've got this fun event that I 225 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: really wish I could find more information about. And when 226 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 1: I say fun, that gets quotes, But me wanting to 227 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: learn more about is true. Remember us talking about the 228 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: Stonehenge festivals that their friend had started, like several episodes ago, 229 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: where Wally was like, we're all gonna go squat Stonehenge. 230 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: That sounds so flaky. 231 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: They kept happening. The Stonehenge festivals lasted almost a decade, 232 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: and in nineteen eighty Krass was like, all right, well, 233 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: we're going to bring punk to it. And not just Krass, 234 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 1: the Poison Girls and a bunch of other punk bands 235 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: were like, We're going to go play the Stonehenge Festival, 236 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: and the punks are going to come because it's a radical, 237 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: free culture event. Why not. So in the crowd was 238 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: a biker gang who took a fence to the punks 239 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: and attacked them. And this is a very like story 240 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: as all this time. At first, the bikers stormed the 241 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: stage during one of the other punk bands and said 242 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: that they weren't going to tolerate punks at their festival, 243 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: and then they just like beat up all the punks. 244 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: They just like went around and like beat everyone up, 245 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: and it was like a beating up massacre, where like 246 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: punks were like running away into the woods and being 247 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: chased by bikers and beating up. It's actually really bad 248 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: to quote Penny and Boa about it. Quote. Weeks later, 249 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: a hippie news sheet defended the bikers, saying that they 250 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: were an anarchist group who had misunderstood our motives. So 251 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: maybe the bikers thought that the punks were all fascists. 252 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. 253 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, indecipherable. There's gotta be okay, there's there's gotta be 254 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: people obviously. 255 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: Who know who're at it. Yeah, yeah, so who. 256 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 2: Have some more informed perspectives. So let's hear from y'all. 257 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Because even when I found things about the history 258 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: of the Stonehenge festival, they were just quoting Penny Rombau 259 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: from the same source that I was able to find it. 260 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: There's not a lot of people talking about this happening, 261 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: and there's even people saying like this sounds like a 262 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: huge big deal. When you read the book, the story 263 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: of Krass about it, but then other people talking about 264 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: the Stonehenge festivals are like, how come no one else 265 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: talks about that? And so like, maybe I think it happened, 266 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: but I don't feel like I totally know the story. 267 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 2: I know I've met a couple of old punks from 268 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 2: that from those days in England. 269 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you find out, we'll go back and edit 270 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: in a further explanation here. 271 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 2: Nice. 272 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: So, either way, both Crass and Poison Girls were unable 273 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: to play. Penny clearly wasn't having a good time at 274 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: the festival his friend started because the last time he 275 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: was there it also went really badly. But Crass is 276 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: growing still and they just get bigger and bigger because 277 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: DIY advertising, unlike mainstream advertising. The way that mainstream advertising 278 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: is that in the middle of your podcast, the host, 279 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: regardless of how they feel about what's about to happen, 280 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: just pivots to ads. 281 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 4: Masterfully, thank you, and we're back. 282 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: So nineteen eighty one, a reviewer said, quote, you come 283 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: across Crass in every place you look. They rarely play 284 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: and hardly ever advertise. They live outside the music business, 285 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: and they're far more successful than most people inside it. 286 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: They don't need to promote themselves because they're following does 287 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: that for them? Their logos on one hundred thousand black 288 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: leather jackets and their name is sprayed on town halls 289 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: and bus stops from Amsterdam to Aberdeen. Crass records regularly 290 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: sell well in excess of the figures achieved by outfits 291 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: whose faces adorn the megastore displays, yet next to nothing 292 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: is known of them. 293 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: It is so important to look outside of the parameters 294 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 2: of the music industry because the way it's set up 295 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 2: is like a cattle choote and the musicians are the livestock. 296 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 297 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 2: I mean, I know some musicians who've had a fair 298 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 2: amount of success through the industry, But the creativity of 299 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 2: artists can be applied as well to how we make 300 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 2: a living. Yeah, And uh, there's just there's no one way. 301 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: There is no one way to be an artist anything, totally, 302 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: and the industry only knows the way that's going to 303 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: make them the most money. So it's up to every 304 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,119 Speaker 2: single artist to be creative about how we survive. 305 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. And like when you work with mainstream stuff, which 306 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: you can do, you just have to be really aware 307 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: of what's happening. You have to be really aware of 308 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: that it's not your only thing. It's like not the 309 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: only way to be a musician. You can be You 310 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: can engage with different labels at different levels at different 311 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: times and then back out of it, like you know, 312 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: you can like well, I mean they try and stick 313 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: you contractually, but like, there's lots of ways of doing. 314 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: It, and so you have to be extremely wary of 315 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: things that are independent as well, and don't just trust 316 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: that like because they're punk or because they have a 317 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 2: certain aesthetic or background that they will have the same 318 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: ethics as you. 319 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: I think totally your community totally. And another thing that 320 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: Crass got to do is they pulled off a bunch 321 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: of really funny pranks, which is of course they did 322 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: one of their better ones. So they released this album 323 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: called Penis Envy that was an intentionally like feminist piece. 324 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: It was maybe their first like concept album or whatever. 325 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: It centered the women of the band. Also the men 326 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: in the band would do shit like write songs about 327 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: rediscovering how to be a man in a more feminist way. 328 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: Like they were actually had really good nuanced gender politics 329 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: as far as they can tell. And there's a song 330 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: that they did on penis Envy called Our Wedding, and 331 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: it is this over the top love song about getting married. 332 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: It's like a satire of marriage. The lyrics include things 333 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: like never look at anyone, anyone but me, never look 334 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: at anyone. I must be all you see, set to 335 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: like sweet organ music or whatever. 336 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,719 Speaker 2: Right, it is so creepy it is, yeah, and you 337 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 2: could play that at lots of Christian Nationalists' weddings. 338 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: And that's basically what they realized is they were like, 339 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: I wonder if we can trick someone into releasing this earnestly, 340 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: and so they wrote a teen girl magazine called Loving 341 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: who loved this new song by Joida Viv, which is 342 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: one of the Crass singers, and it was published by 343 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: According to them, when Krass wrote, they were like, oh, 344 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: is this new song by Joida Viv published by Creative 345 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: Recording and Sound Services Crass. 346 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 2: A Oh so good, I know. 347 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: And it's like a that's like a seamless acronym like 348 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: that that wouldn't raise any red flags if. 349 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 4: I saw that, you know, and warms my heart. 350 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: And so Loving Magazine agreed to release the single free 351 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: to any of their readers who would send them a stamp, 352 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: and then they told their readers that the single would 353 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: quote make your wedding day just that extra bit special. 354 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: Joy de Vive has captured all the happiness and romance 355 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: of that all important big day, your wedding, So make 356 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: sure you send off for your copy and time for 357 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: that grand occasion. It's a must for all true romantics. 358 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 2: It's so eerie. I was listening to it as I 359 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 2: was walking my dog this morning, and yeah, I feel 360 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: like one of my bandmate's sisters is in a really 361 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 2: intense church and he talked about her wedding and the 362 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 2: vows reminded me of that song. So it's a yeah, 363 00:19:53,680 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 2: I really appreciate Crass's take on the patriarchy and religion. Yeah, 364 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 2: it's something that really really deserves to be roasted hard. 365 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: And I think that I really love how feminists they 366 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: were at the gate, Like I love that, like because 367 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: that's I mean, that's one of the things that you 368 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: don't when I imagine old punk. I'm not immediately like, ah, 369 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 1: good feminist politics, you know, but like many of them did, 370 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: and certainly cross and when the magazine found out that 371 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: they got pranked, they were really mad. And Penny just 372 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: told them that their magazines and others like it were 373 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: quote absolutely obscene and despicable. They exploit people in aggressive 374 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: and unpleasant manner. 375 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 2: That's true. 376 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: They hadn't broken any laws, and they did not. 377 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: And yeah, it sounds if you listen to the song, 378 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: like it really could just be played on the radio 379 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: as like a love song. Uh yeah, because that's how 380 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: patriarchal so many love songs are. I mean, it's very 381 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 2: like it's very phil Spectory in a way. 382 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't know Phil Specter as I feel terrible about 383 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: that he. 384 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: Was a he was a murderer. 385 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: Uh oh shit, okay? 386 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: Who who was like a really important producer? 387 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: Oh fuck okay? 388 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: And like he like he was part of I don't 389 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: know fully, but because I I write off people who 390 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 2: are total pieces of shit sometimes and it's hard to 391 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 2: really remember everything about them. But like I think he 392 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: created the wall of sound. If that rings a bell, it's. 393 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: Just like really like the concept of like what a 394 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: lot of the like no wave bands and stuff were 395 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 1: doing of Like it's kind of as loud as possible. 396 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 2: I love your misinterpretation of that. No, like no, it 397 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: was it was like a sixties sound esthetic. 398 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, no, I don't know it, but what I 399 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: do know about No, it's not time for an ad break. 400 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: I'll just keep reading the thing. So yeah, they hadn't 401 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: broken any laws, so they got away with it. In 402 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one, things were getting really heated in the UK. 403 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: Riots were breaking out across the country against police racism 404 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: and violence, starting in Brixton. Under Thatcher, unemployment continued to rise. 405 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: Punks responded with flyers that said things like national tragedy, 406 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: twenty three million people still employed in Northern Ireland. Irish 407 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: rebels were dying during hunger strikes in prison, and more 408 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: and more people were sympathetic to the cause of Irish unification, 409 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: although there were also more terrorist attacks and such, and 410 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: so people were getting polarized on it. In nineteen eighty two, 411 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: Crass released what they sort of figured it would be 412 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: their last record, Christ the Album, a big old double album, 413 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: but then the Falklands War kicked off. I actually only 414 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: learned about the Falklands War because of I really like 415 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: this band, New Model Army, that's like an old UK band, 416 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: and so I was like listening to them since I 417 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: was a teenager, and they talked about the Falklands were 418 00:22:58,880 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: and I was like, I had no idea what it was. 419 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: I was like seventeen or whatever. 420 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: But that's that's like a that's an Elvis Costello song. Right, 421 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: New Model. 422 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: Army, Oh New Mottle Army gets its name from it 423 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: was part of the English Civil War. There was the 424 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: kind of group tied in with the Levelers and stuff 425 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: that we're trying to create a more just England. But 426 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 1: I actually hate the actual New Model Army from back 427 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: then because they were who invaded Ireland and like kind 428 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: of genocided them so and like you in like England, 429 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: they have this like oh the people fighting for good, 430 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: but then Cromwell used them as like useful idiot's. Basically 431 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: that was another revolution that was betrayed from my point 432 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: of view. If you want to hear more about it, 433 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: you can go back and listen to me talk to 434 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: John Darnell from The Mountain Goats about the Levelers and 435 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: the Diggers on an old episode. So I don't know 436 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: if it wouldn't surprise me if Alvis Costello would also 437 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: use that as a song, but I think the band 438 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: gets it from the old group. 439 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, but the. 440 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: Falklands War kicks off. There're these off the coast of 441 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,159 Speaker 1: Argentina called the Falklands Islands, and they are part of 442 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: the UK. For whatever dumb colonial reason, they're still part 443 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: of the UK. In nineteen eighty two, Argentina was like, 444 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: we want our shit back, and so they invaded and 445 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: the UK was like, are you kidding me? We're the 446 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: fucking UK. The war lasted seventy four days and ended 447 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: in argentina surrender. The UK stomped them. About one thousand 448 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: people died, mostly Argentinians, but two hundred and fifty five 449 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: Brits were killed in the fighting too. At the start 450 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: of the conflict, Krass was like, all right, well, we're 451 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: going to make fun of patriotism and we're going to 452 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: make fun of the British soldiers. And they put out 453 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: a single called Sheep Farming in the Falklands, which is 454 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: about British soldiers who just want to go there to 455 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: fuck sheep. 456 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fired. 457 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: But as the war got all like, you know, killie, 458 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: they put out a song that just actually really shook 459 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: up British politics. Like I didn't go into this knowing 460 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: to what degree Crass impacted world politics. They wrote a 461 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: song called how does it feel. I've ever seen it 462 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: both as how does it feel? And how does it feel? 463 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: To be the mother of a thousand dead? Which is 464 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: fucking good title. Yeah, and that song is written directly 465 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: to Margaret Thatcher. Imagine writing a song aimed at a 466 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: politician and then the most important politician, and then having 467 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: the politician like listen to it, not like listen to 468 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: reason and change what they're doing, but have the song 469 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: like actually impact the country's politics. 470 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And whether or not she listens to it, it's 471 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: just important to say it and that everyone hears you 472 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: say it. 473 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 474 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: And as the podcast idiot, I truly was an idiot. 475 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: I was just you know, in a scene where some 476 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 2: people obviously talked about Crass and yeah, big Crass fans, 477 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,239 Speaker 2: but I had never consciously listened to Crass, And so 478 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: I have had my Crass immersion in the last few days. 479 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 2: And one of the things that I immediately really have 480 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 2: savored about Crass is how because they're part of the 481 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: inventors of punk rock, they sidestepped one of the biggest 482 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: pitfalls of punk rock in my opinion, which is that 483 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 2: it's it's this anger aimed outward and it doesn't state 484 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: the self lyrically, and I just loved, like, I'm a 485 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: fucking I'm truly the podcast idiot. What's what's the big 486 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 2: song that we were talking about earlier? 487 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: Do they always a living? 488 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: Do they always a living? It's it's so cool, and 489 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: that it like it states yourself. It's like it's it's 490 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 2: all about what we think and what we deserve as 491 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 2: opposed to like so I remember, it's not as you 492 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 2: are bad. 493 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: It's like we're gonna we're gonna fight for what's ours. 494 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not like ranting at somebody that you 495 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: hate who's not even there. 496 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because Margaret Thatcher's there in this conversation when they 497 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: write this song, you know. 498 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they have the power and they take aim 499 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 2: and they are they're so conscious of who they're able 500 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 2: to communicate with, and it's. 501 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 3: It's astounding. 502 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: It's really beautiful. 503 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, And when they write this song, the Tories 504 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: actually her Thatcher's party actually circulated a memo internally that 505 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: was like, we really can't afford to respond to this 506 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: kind of provocation and we should not arrest them. But 507 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,959 Speaker 1: the cops started showing up at record stores threatening anyone 508 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: who was like selling their record and about half of 509 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: their shows were shut down by cops before they even 510 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: got started. And with the Falkland War, Cress became one 511 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 1: of the main voices of the opposition. Instead of them 512 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: writing labor politicians, labor politicians were writing them. And then 513 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: they started getting leaked information by soldiers. What happened was 514 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: a soldier had written them an angry letter being like, 515 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: how dare you not you unpatriotic? Blah blah blah blah blah. 516 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: Right and Krass had responded, and I think they'd even 517 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: been like, oh, fuck you or whatever. But it had gone. 518 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: It had opened up a channel of communication, and eventually 519 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: this soldier who started off hating them, started telling them 520 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: all of the horrible things from the war that weren't 521 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: getting talked about in the press, including the fact that 522 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: there was almost a mutiny among British soldiers. So then 523 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: they pulled their most dangerous prank. This is the kind 524 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: of prank that I think could have gotten them killed. 525 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: They spoofed a conversation between Thatcher and Reagan about the 526 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: Falklands War and American imperial interests in Europe with nuclear arms. 527 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't get a chance to listen to 528 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 2: that one did. 529 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: They like do their voices? 530 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: Like how like they no, they they they found old 531 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: recordings of them and like cut them up and then 532 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: like did enough like audio magic to like it's like 533 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: a lot of people can tell it's faked, right, but 534 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: not everyone, And it's like fairly well done. And this 535 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: thing that they put out and they they leak it 536 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: ahead of the nineteen eighty two UK general election and 537 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: it claims that Thatcher allowed a British ship to be 538 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: attacked so that the UK could counterattack, and Krass figured 539 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: the whole thing was like cheap and hacky and no 540 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,959 Speaker 1: one would get fooled and it was just like not 541 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: going to go anywhere. 542 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: But people are dumb. 543 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, they tried super hard to make sure it wouldn't 544 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: be traced back to them. The CIA and MI six 545 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out the source of the fake. They suspected 546 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: it was KGB, but a journalist at The Observer was like, Nah, 547 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: this is crass, and like basically like got them to 548 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: fess up. Uh yeah, I love that. Like the journalist 549 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: was just like, no, I've heard this audio production style before, 550 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, incredible, and it's called Thatcher Gate, and it 551 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: did not cost Thatcher the election. The Falklands War made 552 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: her popular again. War is good for popularity. I sure 553 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: hope the current administration doesn't figure that out, but my 554 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: money is that they will. 555 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 3: Did I just say people are stupid? 556 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? 557 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, still upsetting. 558 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: Around this time, Krass opened up a squat. I suspect 559 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: this more than just Crass. I expect this other the 560 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: narco punk movement, but with Crass involved, opened up a squat, 561 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: an empty venue called the Zigzag that had gone under 562 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: a year earlier or whatever, and they opened it up 563 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: to have a twelve band show, which a thousand people 564 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: came to. And this was a new tactic, and it's 565 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: one that's spread across Europe. The implication in what I 566 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: read is that this is the first like open a 567 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: squat to throw a show in that era, in the 568 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: modern era in Europe or whatever. People who've listened to 569 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: the show know that I'm very skeptical anytime it's like 570 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: the first time anything whatever, you know. But it seems 571 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: like this is kind of how the tactic started spreading 572 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: around Europe, because they distributed a pamphlet about how and 573 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: why to do this kind of thing. When they did it, 574 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: and they gave it to everyone who came, and it 575 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: included the lines quote what happened at the Zigzag, we 576 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: hope was one step towards reclaiming what is ours. Freedom, 577 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: free food, free shelter, free information, free music, free ideas, 578 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: freedom to do whatever does not impinge on the freedom 579 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: of others. The idea of squat rock, I'm continuing to quote, 580 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: the idea of squat rock is not purely another way 581 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: of doing gigs, as we hope this handout explains. Hopefully 582 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: it will have been and is an inspiration to other 583 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: people to open up more places, whether it be for 584 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: gigs to live in whatever. As for what they hope 585 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: to accomplish, I want to quote Penny Rimbau from his 586 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 1: book The Last of the Hippies quote, we can open 587 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: up squats and from them start information services for those 588 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: who want to do the same. Or we can form 589 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: housing co ops and communes to share the responsibility of 590 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: renting or even buying a property in places we already live. 591 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: We can open the doors to others, form tenant associations 592 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: with neighbors and demand and create better conditions and facilities 593 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: in the area. We can form gardening groups that squat 594 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: and farm disused land or rent allotments where we can 595 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: to produce food for ourselves and others, that are free 596 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: from dangerous chemicals and grow medicinal herbs to cure each 597 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: other's headaches, and like, yeah, it's not limited to like, 598 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: oh we can have punk shows. They're like we can 599 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: have a better life. 600 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I love that. Uh, that tactic of community gardens. 601 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: Yeah too, Which is why this podcast I should just 602 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: start doing little ads for things that I think should 603 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: be the advertiser. This podcast is brought to you by 604 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: community Gardens, although it was all so even more explicitly 605 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: brought to you by that when we did a whole 606 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: episode about community gardens. But community gardens are great. So 607 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: garden and then give food to people, and that's good. 608 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: And that's the only ad. 609 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 4: And we're back. 610 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: If you heard other ads, it was a mistake, and 611 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: you should write to our complaints department, which is just 612 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: look for someone named Robert Evans is the complaints department. 613 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,560 Speaker 1: So just tag Robert Evans and whatever social media and 614 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: we'll get right on that. So at this point KRASS 615 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: is just wildly important on the world stage in a 616 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: way that I didn't realize, and so folks are kind 617 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: of trying to sort them out politically. Folks from the 618 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: Red Army faction, which is like a German communist urban 619 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: guerrilla group, started hanging out a dial house to like 620 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: suss them out, be like, oh, are these people are 621 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: going to help us on a bombing campaign and then 622 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: realize that Crafts are pacifists and anarchists and not likely 623 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: to support them. The KG came around and tried talking 624 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: to them, trying to sort out how they knew what 625 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: they knew about the Falklands War. But my favorite interaction 626 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: of THEIRS with traditional rebel groups was in nineteen eighty 627 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: two they played an anarchist center in Belfast and the 628 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: first night there was trouble when some like loyalist skinheads, 629 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: like people who were not pro Irish unification but pro 630 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: the UK. They attacked people at the show. But the 631 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: second night, on a Sunday, there were no problems. There 632 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: was no violence at the show, and so Penny was like, oh, 633 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: I bet even these people take Sundays off. Was his 634 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: first guests or whatever. But then they got like a 635 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: letter that was like invited them to an IRA pub 636 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: and they were basically told like, no, the IRA has 637 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: your back. We kept the loyalists away. The reason that 638 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: was peaceful is we did security for you without you 639 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: even noticing it. 640 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 3: Uh, just seamless. 641 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and all of this political stuff that started happening 642 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: kept them involved in the band. They kind of thought 643 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: the band was gonna wind down. They thought that was 644 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 1: gonna be their last release or whatever. There's like people argue, 645 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: like they claim sometimes they claim that they were going 646 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: to disband the band in nineteen eighty four because of 647 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: George or well, like everyone everyone in the UK thought 648 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four was gonna be like a big deal. 649 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: When it happened, you know, it's kind of like a 650 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: year two thousand kind of thing. But some people were like, oh, 651 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: we were always going to disband in nineteen eighty four, 652 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: and other people were like, no, that was just some 653 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,280 Speaker 1: bullshit we used to say. But all of this political 654 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: stuff kept them involved. That makes sense to me. Suddenly 655 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,840 Speaker 1: being important in world political events is a bunch of 656 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: weirdo punks. That has got to be a trip like 657 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,840 Speaker 1: that has got to feel at least interesting, you know, 658 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: how do you walk away from that? 659 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 3: Yeah? 660 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 2: And also it's like you realize you're performing a service, 661 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 2: and totally, once you realize that the world needs you you, 662 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 2: you need to respond to. 663 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: That no totally and it's got to be weird pressure too, 664 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: and maybe even in response to that pressure, I don't know, 665 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: they were like, we're going back to our roots really hard. 666 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,919 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty three, they released their most experimental album, 667 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: which is called yes, Sir, I Will, which comes from 668 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: a like one of the generals or whatever. There's like 669 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: a wounded soldier and he was like, get better soon, 670 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: and the soldier was like, yes, sir, I will, like 671 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, and so that's what they called their album. 672 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: It didn't have so much as songs as like a 673 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 1: one noise spoken word track on both sides of the record. 674 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: It theoretically holds the record for the longest punk song 675 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: because there's no divisions between the different pieces of it 676 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: on the record, like where the little lines of you know, 677 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: you look at a record and you can see where 678 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: the song's end or whatever. And this album wasn't like 679 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: really enjoyable to a lot of people's very avant garde. 680 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: They started playing shows that a lot of people weren't into, 681 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: where they would just play the entire album start to finish, 682 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: instead of playing the hits and things like that, going. 683 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 2: Going back to their Rootsa's exit. 684 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Basically, Steve Ignorant in particular didn't love standing around 685 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: with a written script because it was so long that 686 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: they just literally had the script in front of them. 687 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: He was struggling at this point with the non rock 688 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: and roll nature of the band. He's the young you know, 689 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: the young punk who kind of started the whole thing. 690 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 3: What's their age difference. 691 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: I think he's about ten to fifteen years younger than everyone. Okay, 692 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: he said quote from Crass, like from his time in Crass, 693 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: I don't have any of those anecdotes. Oh there was 694 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: the night where we got the fire extinguishers, etc. Which 695 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: is the stuff people love to hear. We didn't have 696 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,479 Speaker 1: none of that, Just cups of tea and staying around 697 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: people's houses and being polite to their mum and dad. 698 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: Ah. 699 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 1: I have read a ridiculous amount about Crass in the 700 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: past couple weeks, but I've only scratched the surface. I 701 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: did read this critique of them, though I read it 702 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: on my phone and I didn't tract the name of it, 703 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: so it's not my source. List. I'm sorry about that, 704 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,360 Speaker 1: but I also don't agree with it, and so whatever. 705 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: And I read this thing that argues that the failure 706 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: of Crass in an arco punk was that it had 707 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: no involvement in actual social movements, and I was like 708 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 1: nodding along reading it when I first read it, because 709 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: I read it pretty early on, I was like, I'm 710 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: gonna look up some stuff about Krass. But after reading 711 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: more about Crass, I think that this is entirely untrue. 712 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: I wasn't surprised to realize that the article had been 713 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,839 Speaker 1: written by an authoritarian socialist magazine that was basically like MAD. 714 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: That Krass wasn't specifically part of some specific named leftist 715 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: mass movement, right. 716 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were. They wanted them to be their lapdogs. 717 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally. Crass and an arcopunk in general were 718 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,320 Speaker 1: absolutely directly involved with all sorts of mass movements, especially 719 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,880 Speaker 1: the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament the CND. From what I 720 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 1: can tell, they revitalized it like it was kind of 721 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: a dying movement. But then Krass would use its logo 722 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: with a piece symbol like everywhere. You can also say 723 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: that the modern anarchist movement stems at least as much 724 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,439 Speaker 1: from a narco punk as traditional anarchism. But fortunately it's 725 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: like left behind being only one subculture, because subculture is 726 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: fine when it's not. When people think like, oh, in 727 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: order to be a leftist or an anarchist or whatever, 728 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: I have to be a punk, that is nonsense, you know. 729 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: But it's cool when subcultures have radical politics within them. 730 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: I just want a million subcultures, as you said, like 731 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: diversity is our strength, you know. And modern protest tactics 732 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: and styles, like our styles of protesting owe an awful 733 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: lot to the UK in the eighties, specifically around the 734 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: turn of the millennia. Later, the US, Mexico and Europe 735 00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,439 Speaker 1: at least have these huge anti globalization protests which kicked 736 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,680 Speaker 1: off twenty first century protest culture in the West, and 737 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,279 Speaker 1: of course I have an affinity for it because that's 738 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: how I got involved, and we owe an awful lot 739 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 1: about those tactics and how those protests went to this 740 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: time period, there was this anarchist group called London Green Peace, 741 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: which threw me through a loop because I would just oh, 742 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 1: the articles would be like, oh, London green Peace did 743 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: this thing, and I was like, oh, okay, Green Peace 744 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,959 Speaker 1: the organization, but in London, that was what I was thinking, right, right, 745 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: there's no relation to the organization we currently know today's 746 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: green Peace. It turns out both get their names honestly. 747 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 1: They both grew out of the same grassroots environmental movement 748 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,959 Speaker 1: that called itself green Peace, but then a huge chunk 749 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: of it became green Peace International, the thing that grandma's 750 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,280 Speaker 1: donate money to do to save whales or whatever. Yeah, 751 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: London green Peace was still grassroots, and in nineteen eighty 752 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: three they called for some protests. At least I've read 753 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,719 Speaker 1: it was them. Other places say Crass called them for 754 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: the protests, and other places say it came about completely 755 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: organically and no one called for it. Whatever. The anarcho 756 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: punks and the pacifists called for some protests. Crass says 757 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: it was Greenpeace, so we'll go with that. There have 758 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: been these huge peace camps and such like. Basically tens 759 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: of thousands of people were showing up to block military bases. 760 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: But some people were like, why are we going all 761 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: the way out to the countryside to do this. The 762 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,920 Speaker 1: halls of power are right here in London, So they 763 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: called for a stop the city demonstration. They wanted to 764 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,320 Speaker 1: shut down London was the idea, specifically the Financial district, 765 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: and this was to bring together the pacifice and the 766 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 1: anarchists into this big mobilization, and this was an uneasy alliance. 767 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: Sometimes the pacifists were worried that anyone who defended themselves 768 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: against the police or damaged property would make the movement 769 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,720 Speaker 1: look bad, and the cops themselves were super worried. 770 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 2: I was just thinking, this is some Hampton shit, you 771 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 2: know Fred Hampton. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, this is like, yeah, 772 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 2: this is like like getting. 773 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: Getting these different people. Yeah. 774 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,760 Speaker 2: Big coalitions really make you a target fast. 775 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. And it's interesting because this one it 776 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: it forms a coalition and it is this loose one 777 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: and yeah, like it absolutely worried the shit out of 778 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,320 Speaker 1: the state because the cops were like for decades in UK, 779 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,720 Speaker 1: well not nine Northern Ireland, but like in England, protest 780 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: organizers had been willing to like meet with cops to 781 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,600 Speaker 1: coordinate the whole thing, you know, like, oh, we're gonna 782 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: do our march from here to there and get permits 783 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: and do everything the right way or whatever right And 784 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: for some weird reason, the anarchists in the past of us. 785 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: It didn't, and so cops showed up at an anarchist 786 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: meeting to be like, can we can we please talk 787 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: this over? Can you like we know you're doing a thing, 788 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,799 Speaker 1: can we just can we be part of planning? And 789 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 1: they like, no one would work with them, and they 790 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: all had to leave. 791 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 2: Some it's some Hampton shit, and it's also some Judy 792 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 2: Barry shit. So yeah, it's like when you get really effective, 793 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 2: you get really it's it's really hot water. 794 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And so before the protests, they squatted an 795 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 1: empty office building to create an anarchist social center called 796 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: the Peace Center. Cops raided it the night before the protests, 797 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,919 Speaker 1: looking for weapons. There weren't any weapons, but the raid 798 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: didn't stop the protest. To quote George Berger from the 799 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: book The Story of Crass quote, normal demonstrations had leaders, 800 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: stewards organization and an overload of Socialist Workers' Party placards. 801 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: Stop the city had kids in colorful rags, breaking off 802 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: from the main group on their own initiative to affect 803 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,840 Speaker 1: their own actions. Graffiti, street theater, free food bank, locks, 804 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:32,840 Speaker 1: glued patriot flags, burned leaf litting anti apartheid actions against 805 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: Barkley's Bank, many arrests. By the virtue of about fifteen 806 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: hundred leaderless young punks and a few older ones, the 807 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: anarcho punk movement had arrived. It was no longer simply 808 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,000 Speaker 1: a bunch of kids who bought the same records. It 809 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: was and is a people's culture, and so I like that. 810 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: The thing that makes them real is like when they 811 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: start doing stuff outside of just subcultural spheres. You know, 812 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,359 Speaker 1: a ton of people were arrested. Two hundred people caught 813 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: charges at the first one. Between the first one and 814 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: the second one, a thousand people were arrested, and the 815 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: financial district was like all chewed up. They did a 816 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 1: ton of financial damage, like by stopping the ability for 817 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: business as usual to continue. And so they did it 818 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: again the next year. But something even bigger happened the 819 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: next year. And these are the like, this is the 820 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: real coalition shit, this is the like I'm going to 821 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: eventually be doing a lot of episodes about this shit. 822 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 1: Have you heard about the miners strikes in the UK 823 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four. It's okay if you haven't, but 824 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 1: I'm just curious. 825 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 2: No I have, I'm not fully informed, but yeah, yeah, no, it. 826 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 2: It was gigantic. 827 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, in nineteen eighty four, Thatcher had decided in March 828 00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, Thatcher had decided to break the working 829 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: class and unions for good. About twenty thousand miners were 830 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: going to be laid off and so all of the 831 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,279 Speaker 1: miners went on strike. And this became a battle for 832 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 1: the whole of the English working class because it was 833 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: fairly heavily socialist and Thatcher wanted to shatter that wanted 834 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: to just destroy class unity, you know, among the working class. 835 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 1: And this was a massive showdown kind of beyond what's 836 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 1: easy to imagine for an American. I think it was 837 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: almost a civil war between the right, Thatcher and the left, 838 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: which was working class miners and their supporters. And the 839 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: reason is so hard is that like the US has 840 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: had a strong ever since the Red Scare has had 841 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,840 Speaker 1: a pretty strong hold, the right wing has had a 842 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 1: pretty stronghold on like rural culture, you know. 843 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 2: Totally but not complete. But you know, you. 844 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 3: Read your Robin DG. 845 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 2: Kelly, and there was so much socialism coming from the 846 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 2: ground up all throughout this rural South. 847 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, like, and we have this idea that 848 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,560 Speaker 1: somehow rural poor people have always been right winging that 849 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 1: this is a completely untrue, including in America, Like it 850 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,600 Speaker 1: just socialism, leftism and anarchism and communism were just so 851 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: completely memory hold in the US, like starting in the 852 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: nineteen forties and fifties, and when this minor strike happened, 853 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: punks came out in droves to support the miners despite 854 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: this massive cultural divide between the urban weirdo queer punks 855 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: and the like normy you know, the miners who are 856 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,440 Speaker 1: much more culturally conservative. And one day I'm going to 857 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: cover the strike in more detail because i want to 858 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: talk about this group called lesbians and gay support the miners. 859 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,720 Speaker 1: But if you ever want to cry, watch the movie Pride. 860 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: It was about this. 861 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 2: Yeah cool, it's English movie. 862 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an English movie about lesbians and gay support 863 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,280 Speaker 1: the miners. And it's about learning to find solidarity between 864 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: these like urban gay punks and like weirdos showing up 865 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: in these like you know, small towns of culturally conservative 866 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: people and being like, well, we're here to support you 867 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,239 Speaker 1: and people you know, like reminds me a lot of 868 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: like I've done a it's been a while, but I 869 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: used to do a lot of like role organizing with 870 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 1: like environmental campaign stuff, you know, and like queer punks 871 00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: and trans people would be like showing up and hanging 872 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,879 Speaker 1: out with people and like watching people like be like, well, 873 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: all right, what's this pronoun thing? You know? And like 874 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 1: and then like vice versa, like there's all kinds of 875 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: shit that we have to learn too, and like it's 876 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,359 Speaker 1: just like, literally, this is what makes my heart move 877 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,839 Speaker 1: forward on a day to day basis is like solidarity. 878 00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that scene in mate Wan where where 879 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,160 Speaker 2: they're all playing music together, all the different all the 880 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 2: different factions of that the I'm. 881 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 3: Getting teary eyed, I know. 882 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, like all the the bosses are trying to you know, 883 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 2: divide everybody and. 884 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, white versus Italian versus black, Yeah, I think. 885 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 2: Was that one and then they just all like end 886 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:02,760 Speaker 2: up playing music together. 887 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 888 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 2: I got to see Will Oldham play the other night 889 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,040 Speaker 2: here in Los Angeles. My partner used to be in 890 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 2: his band, and uh he he plays the child's preacher 891 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 2: in mate Wan. 892 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 1: Oh shit, Oh cool. 893 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 3: Oh you didn't know that. 894 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a baby Will Oldham. Fuck. 895 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: Yeah. 896 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 897 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:34,800 Speaker 1: So during this strike in the UK, everything became very serious, 898 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: like it was just a really dire time spoiler alert them. Well, no, 899 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,800 Speaker 1: I'll get to it. The miners are gonna lose. But meanwhile, 900 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,360 Speaker 1: Crass started like, in order to get through police checkpoints 901 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: and play benefit shows, they would dress not as cops 902 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,360 Speaker 1: but like cops and then drive the same kind of 903 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: car that cops drove. But like not, it wasn't like 904 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,719 Speaker 1: they were like, hello, officer, I am officer. You know, 905 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 1: they were like they did it like legally. They just 906 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: wore the same outfits and shit, I think it's really clever. 907 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,479 Speaker 1: And they hung a huge banner over the Thames, which 908 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: is the river that goes through England that if you 909 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,720 Speaker 1: ever see something in writing and you're like the Fames, 910 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: well it's the Thames. And they hung this banner where 911 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,960 Speaker 1: Parliament could see it. And this is probably my favorite 912 00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: slogan I've ever seen from Krass. It read you picked 913 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,280 Speaker 1: the scabs, Now the wounds will fester. 914 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's come on. There are such gorgeous lyricists. 915 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:36,600 Speaker 2: I'm so moved by their writing. 916 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think a lot of them because it 917 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:41,719 Speaker 1: wasn't just like oh, it wasn't like Penny wrote it 918 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: or Steve wrote it, or Eve wrote it. You know, 919 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: it was like they all I don't know if I 920 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 1: think they each wrote different songs, but like they clearly 921 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 1: were challenging each other to write poetically and well, you know. 922 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love I love that. Just yeah, seeing people 923 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,800 Speaker 2: that all keep each other on their toes. 924 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. Crass played their final show in nineteen eighty four, 925 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,440 Speaker 1: in July nineteen eighty four, and it was a benefit 926 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: for Welsh miners. And then basically it was nineteen eighty 927 00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,400 Speaker 1: four and they sort of promised to break up in 928 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:14,800 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four and then they started to Andy Palmer 929 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: went first. They were all just kind of burned out. 930 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty five, the miners called off the strike 931 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:25,279 Speaker 1: Thatcher one she was fighting the enemy within and soon 932 00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,799 Speaker 1: she attacked the Stonehenge Festival and other like leftist and 933 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:33,399 Speaker 1: free culture and whatever stuff. After the band broke up, 934 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,239 Speaker 1: a song on their old album Penis Envy was banned 935 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,799 Speaker 1: for obscenity, and slowly folks started drifting away from the 936 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: band and from the well from Dialhouse. After Crass, Steve 937 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 1: Ignorant said, quote, the bands that came after Crass outcrassed 938 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,359 Speaker 1: Crass by being even more scruffy and dirty and being 939 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: even more square and even more miserable than we were 940 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,959 Speaker 1: meant to be. They became even more politically correct, which 941 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,160 Speaker 1: is to say Steve Ignorant was not a fan of 942 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:06,240 Speaker 1: the or a copunk culture that Krass created. He didn't 943 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: like that people called him comrade. Oh yeah, and to 944 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,000 Speaker 1: be fair, a lot of people don't like when you 945 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:11,840 Speaker 1: call him comrade. 946 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 3: No, it's cosplaying a bit. 947 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Also, politically correct started out as a leftist joke, 948 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,560 Speaker 2: and then the right, oh yeah, and then the right 949 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:31,279 Speaker 2: used it against the left. I'll just I'll take this 950 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 2: moment to say one of the I learned this phrase 951 00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:44,280 Speaker 2: from Eduardo Galiano's he was quoting Argentinian organizers at the time. 952 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 2: Power they say is like a violin. You grab it 953 00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,359 Speaker 2: with the left and you play it with the right. 954 00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 1: Fuck. Fuck that is I mean that's what Mussolini did right, like, 955 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:03,920 Speaker 1: but I. 956 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,680 Speaker 2: Mean that's what Biden did, like recently, with like just 957 00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:15,400 Speaker 2: taking all the like George Floyd energy and then turning 958 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 2: it into whatever the hell he was doing. 959 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:24,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. The By the end of nineteen eighty nine, everyone 960 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: from Krass who was still at Dial House had a 961 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:29,400 Speaker 1: big blow up fight if you listen to more critical 962 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,319 Speaker 1: takes about Crass. Basically all the puritanical arguing about what 963 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: was the right political line like came to a head 964 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: without the band to keep them focused. I think their 965 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:41,480 Speaker 1: like last fight that they had was about whether or 966 00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,840 Speaker 1: not like smoking was politically correct or whatever, you know, 967 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,799 Speaker 1: And you know, they would argue about like can you 968 00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: have milk in your tea? Like everyone in Crass's vegetarian 969 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: is to my understanding, but like people used to use 970 00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: the word vegetarian where we might use were vegan now 971 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,680 Speaker 1: and they were like a little bit more interchangeable and 972 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,880 Speaker 1: you know whatever, people'd argu about that shit. After the 973 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,720 Speaker 1: band broke up, Steve Ignorant started playing with the narco 974 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,240 Speaker 1: punk band Conflict, who was one of the main bands 975 00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: in the scene, and they were a little bit less 976 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,799 Speaker 1: than the passifist tip and more on the animal rights tip. 977 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:16,080 Speaker 1: Steve also became a puppeteer, doing punch and judy shows 978 00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,600 Speaker 1: for kids, and Penny and Eve and g started doing 979 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:22,200 Speaker 1: free jazz and poetry as we all knew they would 980 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 1: do without Crass. 981 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 2: I love I love seeing the end of bands, like 982 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,479 Speaker 2: where everyone goes off and does their own thing and 983 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:35,880 Speaker 2: everyone shows their colors, like like the one guy from 984 00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 2: the Velvet Underground who like became a steamboat operator and 985 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,080 Speaker 2: oh shit really yeah, and like I think like got 986 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 2: some kind of amazing degree and something very obscure, like. 987 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,880 Speaker 3: It's just it's it's it's sweet. 988 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,880 Speaker 2: People are yeah, yeah, okay, all right, I love this 989 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:56,480 Speaker 2: part of the story. 990 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, like and then it actually as a happy ending 991 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,360 Speaker 1: on some ways too. The land Dial houses on was 992 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,200 Speaker 1: sold to basically become a golf course, but Dial House 993 00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:11,319 Speaker 1: sued and won, and so the landlords were like, fine, 994 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,160 Speaker 1: when we're selling the house then, and they sold it 995 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,839 Speaker 1: at auction. So all the friends of Dial House showed 996 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,320 Speaker 1: up at the auction and bought it. 997 00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 3: Is it? 998 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:21,799 Speaker 2: Is it like one of the Is it like cob 999 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,839 Speaker 2: or something like When I think of an old old 1000 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 2: English house, I think like that ancient construction, you know. 1001 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: So I've looked at pictures of it. It's it was 1002 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,080 Speaker 1: first built in like the fourteen hundreds or the oldest 1003 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,640 Speaker 1: houses from the fourteen hundreds, and it's been added on 1004 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,759 Speaker 1: to room after room over time, and so I but 1005 00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you exactly the types of construction. Whenever 1006 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,280 Speaker 1: I leave the US I'm always like, wow, everything's built 1007 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,720 Speaker 1: different with like plaster and stuff, you know. But I 1008 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:50,359 Speaker 1: but I couldn't tell you it's cute. You can, there's 1009 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:54,680 Speaker 1: plenty of pictures of it, and so dial House, as 1010 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:58,880 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, still there. And I think, well, 1011 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to docks. I think that the people 1012 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,399 Speaker 1: still just live there, you know, and are still doing 1013 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,800 Speaker 1: their thing. Like fifty years later and along the way, 1014 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,359 Speaker 1: Krass sold about two million records in the seven years 1015 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:14,680 Speaker 1: that they were around, the population of the UK was 1016 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,360 Speaker 1: only fifty six million people at the time, and I 1017 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,640 Speaker 1: know it wasn't like one record for every you know, 1018 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,279 Speaker 1: couple being whatever. I can't do math in my head, 1019 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,200 Speaker 1: but like, selling two million records at any time is 1020 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,520 Speaker 1: a big deal, but selling it in a smallish country. 1021 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,200 Speaker 1: As for what they accomplished, At one point, an interviewer 1022 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,360 Speaker 1: was talking to Steve Ignorant about how he and others 1023 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,600 Speaker 1: had basically destroyed the legacy of Margaret Thatcher that when 1024 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,640 Speaker 1: she died in twenty thirteen, it couldn't be said that 1025 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,919 Speaker 1: like people had a harder time whitewashing Margaret Thatcher, right, 1026 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,800 Speaker 1: because history also remembers that people fucking hated her too, 1027 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,840 Speaker 1: and Steve said, in response to the interviewer, that's my 1028 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,280 Speaker 1: proudest thing that a spotty little oike from Dagenham actually 1029 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:09,440 Speaker 1: stood up knees trembling as he avoided the ash trays 1030 00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:15,160 Speaker 1: being thrown at him and still fucking did it. And like, yeah, 1031 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 1: here's the standing up knees trembling, dodging ash trays and 1032 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:19,520 Speaker 1: fucking doing it. 1033 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 3: You're making me cry again. 1034 00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1035 00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:26,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love their immediacy. 1036 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,600 Speaker 2: I love their you know, talking shit to power at 1037 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:32,360 Speaker 2: every turn. 1038 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting because the main critique that comes up 1039 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,919 Speaker 1: over and over again is about like PC culture, uh, 1040 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,760 Speaker 1: kind of creating a puritanical space where like we figure 1041 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,360 Speaker 1: out more and more things that are bad without figuring 1042 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,120 Speaker 1: out more and more like ways of being good. 1043 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:55,239 Speaker 2: You know. Well, yeah, but people are we're such intelligent 1044 00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:00,040 Speaker 2: animals and uh, you know, people are just complicated and 1045 00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:06,200 Speaker 2: we were we're so dogged to grab another animal metaphor 1046 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,520 Speaker 2: and we just we just go for stuff. And it's 1047 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,560 Speaker 2: like that was part of their you know, their artistic 1048 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,360 Speaker 2: vision is that they were being critical and that they 1049 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,880 Speaker 2: were empowering people to be critical. So yeah, they yeah, sure, 1050 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,640 Speaker 2: of course they overdid it. They're they're people. 1051 00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, totally, and it it was necessary to to 1052 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 1: break a lot of things by saying like, no, we're 1053 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,360 Speaker 1: just gonna do this shit. And I fucking love that. 1054 00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: It came from the combination of avant garden punk, which 1055 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,040 Speaker 1: are like actually go together me if you listen Acrass, 1056 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,120 Speaker 1: they go together very well, right, But like you wouldn't 1057 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,520 Speaker 1: know it thinking about it. You know, you wouldn't when 1058 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,680 Speaker 1: you're like thinking about, like, oh, would this work really 1059 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,520 Speaker 1: well to create this thing? And but they both like 1060 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,600 Speaker 1: were just like, oh no, fuck the rules, you know. 1061 00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,280 Speaker 2: Right, if you don't know any avant garde people, you 1062 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,400 Speaker 2: might you might be able to kind of fool yourself 1063 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:08,959 Speaker 2: into seeing those things as separate worlds. But in my experience, 1064 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,400 Speaker 2: they are all the same people. 1065 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, especially the ones who like take music seriously, 1066 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, like the people making the music. 1067 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:20,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1068 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,200 Speaker 1: I was like trying to explain at some point when 1069 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,400 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, ten fifteen years ago or something, 1070 00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,800 Speaker 1: I was like talking to someone, I was like, oh no, 1071 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,520 Speaker 1: like when I say punk now, like you know, I 1072 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:31,320 Speaker 1: was like walking somewhere with like my friend who like 1073 00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: wears clean clothes, and color, and I'm like, oh yeah, no, 1074 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,160 Speaker 1: like us punk's right, and it was just like it 1075 00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: was a much broader word and concept and like and 1076 00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,760 Speaker 1: when I think about like not just like folk punk 1077 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,480 Speaker 1: as a genre, but literally like the fact that punk 1078 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,920 Speaker 1: culture also makes pop music, makes noise music, makes country music, 1079 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,160 Speaker 1: makes folk music, like you know, it's like it's all 1080 00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:59,280 Speaker 1: gotten beautifully complicated instead of getting more and more obsessive 1081 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,400 Speaker 1: about I mean, sometimes people get more and more obsessive 1082 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,440 Speaker 1: about niche subgenres and that's actually fine, but like instead 1083 00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:09,440 Speaker 1: just this like big mess of I don't know, just 1084 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,040 Speaker 1: because sometimes people are like, oh my, my ethos is 1085 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,560 Speaker 1: punk and it's not. It's not SLC punk, you know, 1086 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:19,000 Speaker 1: it's not the like cartoonish punk. I don't know where 1087 00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:19,640 Speaker 1: I'm going with this. 1088 00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:27,720 Speaker 2: Well, genre genre is I'm I don't have a strong 1089 00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,280 Speaker 2: relationship with genre and. 1090 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,520 Speaker 1: Personally the singer songwriter, right. 1091 00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,080 Speaker 2: Because I you know, when I put up my last record, 1092 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:42,280 Speaker 2: Haunted Mountain, there's a dance song on it. Because I 1093 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:47,080 Speaker 2: don't know, I would assume partly because of the misogyny 1094 00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:52,640 Speaker 2: inherent in the culture, but you know, maybe that has 1095 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,040 Speaker 2: to do with like pigeonholing me. I'm just like it 1096 00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:04,040 Speaker 2: was so funny se all these reviewers look at this 1097 01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,080 Speaker 2: dance track and the whole record and try to say 1098 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,800 Speaker 2: that it was folk. I really don't know what they're 1099 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 2: talking about. 1100 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:15,120 Speaker 3: I mean, especially listening to. 1101 01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 2: Do They Owe Us a Living for the first time 1102 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,520 Speaker 2: a few days ago, was like this is oh yeah, 1103 01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:28,200 Speaker 2: this is definitively punk. This is like this is classic punk. 1104 01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:34,120 Speaker 2: And I remember like coming up in scenes where all 1105 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:41,560 Speaker 2: these Americans, all these Houstonians had British accents, like like 1106 01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,439 Speaker 2: they needed all of it, you know, they took they 1107 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:51,840 Speaker 2: took the entire palette of of that that expression of 1108 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:52,920 Speaker 2: the genre of punk. 1109 01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like punk. I is that My closing thought 1110 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:00,680 Speaker 1: is I like punk. I was even like a punk 1111 01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,040 Speaker 1: as a teenager is a weird goth kid, but like 1112 01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,280 Speaker 1: once it became a squadron traveler and really kind of 1113 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,760 Speaker 1: fell in with the punks and the more political punks 1114 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,320 Speaker 1: and just it just felt it felt like home in 1115 01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,160 Speaker 1: a way that like nothing ever had even if it, 1116 01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,080 Speaker 1: you know, I would listen to Crass sometimes, but it 1117 01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,240 Speaker 1: wasn't like it's not the thing I put on. I 1118 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,920 Speaker 1: would actually actually the same scene listen to a lot 1119 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:21,640 Speaker 1: of Julie Holland. 1120 01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,120 Speaker 2: So that makes me feel so good. 1121 01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:26,640 Speaker 3: That's lovely. 1122 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 2: Thank you. 1123 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:32,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, if you're listening to this, if you want 1124 01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: to know more about an archo punk. Almost a sequel 1125 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,720 Speaker 1: to this is an episode about the the anarchist punk 1126 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,040 Speaker 1: band Trumba Wamba with that I did with the guy 1127 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,000 Speaker 1: from Eve six is the main way that you might 1128 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,560 Speaker 1: know him. Also, you can start a band, you can 1129 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:53,480 Speaker 1: make music, you can do whatever. You can start a podcast. 1130 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,640 Speaker 1: You can do these things and you should because why 1131 01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,520 Speaker 1: not you only live once? Or whatever makes me want 1132 01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,439 Speaker 1: to start a band, You just start a band. Yeah, 1133 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,120 Speaker 1: like another band, like two other bands. Oh, I'd have 1134 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:09,600 Speaker 1: to get better at electric guitar if I wanted to 1135 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:11,040 Speaker 1: play in a punk. 1136 01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 3: Band, or learn as you go. 1137 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,640 Speaker 1: That's true, that is the more classic way to do it. Well, 1138 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:21,800 Speaker 1: that's the end of this, And thank you Jolie for 1139 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:24,840 Speaker 1: coming on. And people should check out your music everywhere 1140 01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:25,960 Speaker 1: that music is music. 1141 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:31,160 Speaker 2: And yeah, Margaret, thank you so very much for having me. 1142 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,520 Speaker 2: Everyone should check out your podcast wherever podcasts are podcasted, 1143 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,480 Speaker 2: and read your books and listen to your audio books 1144 01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,280 Speaker 2: and just enjoy your music. 1145 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,720 Speaker 1: Oh thanks, Oh I guess I should say I probably 1146 01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,000 Speaker 1: do talk about a fair amount. My music is. I 1147 01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:52,760 Speaker 1: have a bunch of bands on band camp. If you 1148 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,280 Speaker 1: want to hear a black metal band that actually is 1149 01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,120 Speaker 1: kind of avant garde, it's called Femino's School and that's 1150 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,560 Speaker 1: I also have a dark, gothy pop music project called 1151 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,760 Speaker 1: the medic War Machine that used to be more noisy. 1152 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,360 Speaker 1: And I have a one woman do metal EP but 1153 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,080 Speaker 1: I put it out but I never did follow up 1154 01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,880 Speaker 1: called Vulgarite. But if you're like, I want to listen 1155 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,160 Speaker 1: to a one woman do metal band that is themed 1156 01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,840 Speaker 1: after the works of William Blake, you can listen to Vulgarite. 1157 01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 1: And my newest album is years old and it's called 1158 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,360 Speaker 1: The Lathe and it is post punk and is with 1159 01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:27,600 Speaker 1: one of my friends is an amazing songwriter, and that's 1160 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,160 Speaker 1: also on band camp. There that's my weird music shout 1161 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,160 Speaker 1: outs before podcasting consume my life. 1162 01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,160 Speaker 2: Is Yeah, well it's you know, it's good to figure 1163 01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:39,000 Speaker 2: out how to get paid. 1164 01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:40,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1165 01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:43,720 Speaker 2: I you know when I was when I just started 1166 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,320 Speaker 2: listening to Krass a few days ago, I felt that 1167 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:48,400 Speaker 2: they were Blakian. 1168 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:51,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I could totally see that. 1169 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like they're so English, and they're like, hey, 1170 01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,040 Speaker 2: what if this was a better place? 1171 01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,200 Speaker 1: And they even like come from graphic design, like William 1172 01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:04,280 Speaker 1: Blake was a did etchings for a living. 1173 01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:09,560 Speaker 2: That's incredible exactly. And then they and also like they 1174 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:15,120 Speaker 2: have their own idiosyncratic theology theology exactly. 1175 01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:20,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well we had ended there and I'll talk to 1176 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:22,880 Speaker 1: you soon and all you listeners, I'll talk to you 1177 01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:23,520 Speaker 1: next week. 1178 01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:24,680 Speaker 2: Adios. 1179 01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,400 Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 1180 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:33,600 Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. 1181 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:37,440 Speaker 2: More podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia 1182 01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,360 Speaker 2: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1183 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,240 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.