WEBVTT - ADHD pt 1 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:05.080 Hey, everybody. In today's episode and in part two, we 0:00:05.160 --> 0:00:08.600 talk very frankly about ADHD and all that that means 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.280 over the lifetime of a person who has it. So 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.280 if you're a parent with a kiddo who has ADHD, 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.840 maybe considered listening by yourself first before you share it 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.320 with them. Just a thought. Hope you enjoy these episodes. 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:29.200 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:35.479 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:41.000 there's Charles w chuck'bryan, and there's Jerry Jerome Roland. You 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.760 put the three of us together and you got yourself 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.680 a podcast called Stuff you Should Know. 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:48.879 That's right. And this is the. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.600 Sort of long simmering we've had it on the back 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:57.360 burner down to as low as a consummer. You had 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:00.160 many many months the ADHD. What is now to be 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:03.480 a two part episode because we've had I mean, that's 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.399 not why we're splitting it up, but we have had 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.520 a lot of requests for this over the years, and 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.000 you know, it's big that could certainly be more than 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.520 two episodes. And as much as I wanted to try 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.600 and split this up into AD and HD for fun, 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.920 and it kind of doesn't work that way, so we're 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:22.759 just gonna split it up into two parts. 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.640 I think you're more thinking of ac DC. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.400 Oh, okay, that's that's what I think it is. Yeah, 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:30.480 I gotcha, No, chuck. 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:35.480 Instead, today we're talking about ADHD, which stands for attention 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:40.440 deficit hyperactivity disorder. Kind of wordy, but it really does 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.960 get the point across because with ADHD, I'm sure a 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:46.160 lot of people are familiar with it, especially the people 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:51.360 who requested it. It's a I'm not exactly sure exactly 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:53.720 what kind of disorder it is, whether it's a mental disorder, 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.640 a personality disorder, an externalizing disorder. There's actually a lot 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:00.480 of debate about it, but essentially, it's where people have 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:05.720 a lot of trouble paying attention, sitting still focusing, and 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.960 a bunch of other stuff that we'll talk about, and 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:10.960 you put it all together and it can make life 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:15.079 kind of hard to navigate. And at first we'll talk 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.520 about it a lot more. But kids, it used to 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:21.080 be like little boys fidgeting essentially was what ADHD or 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.919 ADD at the time was considered. But over time it's 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.080 really kind of expanded. We've realized way more girls have 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.200 it than we thought before, and we've also come to 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:34.079 realize that adults have it too, and that's a I mean, 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:36.960 it's a really big, huge disorder, and a lot of 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.680 people just kind of use it as shorthand, like, you know, 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.960 I forgot my keys, it's my ADHD or something like that. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:44.680 But the more you know about it, the more you 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.280 realize it's a genuinely debilitating disorder that people have. 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.400 Yeah, and sometimes you may lose your keys. 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.160 It's true, that is a big part of it. I mean, 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:55.359 they're not wrong about that. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:56.200 One for sure. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.880 So you know, when it comes to something like this, 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.160 that is only and I mean, honestly, in the last 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.040 like twenty five ish years, really come more into focus 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.560 as far as our understanding of it. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:08.360 When you look. 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:13.280 Back through medical and you know, psychiatric literature, you're going 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.320 to see it pop up. They just didn't know what 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:18.160 it was at the time. And in this case you 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.040 can probably go back all the way to the eighteenth 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:26.200 century with a Scottish physician named Sir Alexander Crichton, who 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.280 in his seventeen eighty nine book talked about children who 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.680 were unable to focus on one thing at a time 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.440 and you know, it's one of those clear cases kind 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.120 of like, oh, well, it was probably somebody with ADHD. 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.240 It is not just a modern condition because kids eat 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.880 too much sugar and they have screens in their lives. 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.040 Screens can we'll talk about that. Can certainly, you know, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.440 make things worse, But it's not like, oh, because people 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.080 are so busy and there's too many distractions these days, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:58.480 and back in the olden times when there were no distractions, 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:01.360 people didn't suffer from something like this. It's just not 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.080 true when you hear about some of these old descriptions. 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:07.440 Yeah, no, not at all. And our understanding of it 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.200 has progressed like over the centuries. But it is interesting 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.240 that it started in the eighteenth century because I mean 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.680 Crichton nailed it on the head, like he's like, there's 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.800 definitely something here, and I guess it just kind of 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.479 stayed there for a little while until nineteen oh two 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.640 when a pediatrician from the UK named Sir George Frederick. 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:29.680 Still ironically, yeah, I thought that too. He described children 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:33.920 who had a defect of moral control, which is essentially 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.599 saying that these are kids who have troubled delaying gratification, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:43.320 not thinking about negative consequences when they carry out actions, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:48.000 and that's impulsivity. That's what we call it today, is impulsivity. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.720 And that's what Still was essentially describing at the time. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.240 Yeah, in the thirties, some more descriptors came along from 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.960 the courtesy of some German physicians I named Franz Kramer 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.159 and Hans pol No in this case talking about more 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.599 of the hyperactivity side of things. And then about five 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.279 years after that, still in the nineteen thirties, in nineteen 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.720 thirty seven, a big I guess breakthrough came along when 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.719 a doctor for the Rhode Island Facility for Children with 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.400 neurological problems, saying Charles Bradley was doing an experiment where 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.840 he was doing a imaging test on the brain, and specifically, 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:30.039 in this case with kids, he was draining some brain 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.520 or some fluid around the brain. Rather gave the kids headaches, 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.320 he treated them with benza dream, which is an amphetamine, 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.440 And what he found out was, Wow, this doesn't seem 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:46.440 to make any intuitive sense, but giving these children amphetamines 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:49.840 is at least for about half of them, made them 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.680 less vigety and more focused, and all of a sudden 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.279 you're onto a pharmaceutical potential, pharmaceutical treatment. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.680 Yeah, I mean, what a way to accidentally stumble into that, 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:04.520 because even today we're not exactly sure how stimulants like 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.479 take care of ADHD symptoms. We just know they really 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.920 really work. Luckily, this doctor was like quick complaining, take 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.320 some benz adream and shut up little. 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.560 Kids, and back then the kids obeyed, So. 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.359 There was a so that was actually kind of a 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.920 diversion nineteen thirty seven when when Charles Bradley discovered this 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:28.680 that amphetamines treat ADHD, it didn't like take off like wildfire, 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.599 because there was an interim period between then and like 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.719 the fifties where psychiatrists and psychologists were like, all this 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.800 stuff needs to just be talked out through psychoanalysis. That's 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.560 how you treat you know, mental disorders. And in the 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:46.719 fifties finally people were like, no, let's start prescribing drugs. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.960 And one of the first companies was Siba Geige pharmaceutical company. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:53.160 Yeah. 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:55.159 I mean, you're definitely going to go out of business 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.640 if that's the name of your pharmaceutical company. But they're 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.040 the first ones who developed Riddlin. And it turns out 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:05.560 that the guy who developed the drug leandro penzone penizone. 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:08.880 His wife was named Rita and he named it as. 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.239 That's right, lovely Rita. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.280 So it was the first half of the twentieth century 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.680 when things started to change, you know, you know not 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:21.360 I guess I could say begin in earnest as far 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.880 as researching this kind of thing. A lot of like 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.960 research into brain injuries were happening at the time, and 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.600 they thought that, well, hey, this is what's going on 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.000 with any kind of developmental issue. It's almost certainly a 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.120 brain injury. That can be the case for sure with 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:43.440 all kinds of developmental issues, including ADHD in this case. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.880 But in the nineteen sixties that started to go out 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.320 of favor a little bit and they started to realize that, hey, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.600 a lot of this stuff, there are a lot of 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.120 actually distinct conditions, and you can't just lump them all 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.720 in there and say it's because a kid hit his 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:57.520 head when they were young. 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:02.840 No. So in the late sixties, the DSM two, the sequel, 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:08.320 the introduced to diagnosis called hyperkinetic Reaction of childhood and 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.400 it's essentially ADHD that they were talking about, And this 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.960 is the first time it showed up in psychiatry or 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.280 it's like, this is actually a thing. We just aren't 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.880 clear what to name it yet, clearly because we're calling 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.080 it hyperkinetic reaction of childhood. And within a decade and 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.080 a half we finally had it nailed down to attention 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:31.120 deficit disorder ADD, which people of our age, that was 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.920 what the name we were first exposed to. For sure, 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.680 it was not ADHD, this new fangled version. It was 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:39.720 ad D and that's the way it was, and you. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.559 Liked it, right, right. 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:46.920 ADD had a couple of subtypes depending on whether there 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.880 was hyperactivity involved, but they it wasn't like a part 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.280 of the actual definition at this point. I think seven 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:57.800 years later it finally landed upon I guess this would 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.480 be nineteen eighty seven. But a junior, I'm sorry, sophomore 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:02.080 in high school? 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:03.320 How is eleven? 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:05.800 Oh, you were just a cute little eleven year old. 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.120 How was a well I didn't get pimples, luckily, but 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:14.080 it would be pimply faced teenager when ADHD finally rolls 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.040 through the door. And I think if you had no 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.960 hyperactivity attached at that time, it could it was called 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.880 undifferentiated ADD Right am I. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:25.320 Saying all this? 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:25.559 Right? 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:26.880 I think so yeah, yeah. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:27.080 You totally. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.600 And then in the nineties, another big breakthrough came through 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.120 when they found out, hey, there's a genetic component to 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:37.480 all this, and there are actually a lot of. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:38.320 Adults that have this. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.560 We thought kids just grew out of this kind of thing, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.560 but now adults are saying, like when they're diagnosing like 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.240 gen xers, basically diagnosing their kids, they're saying, wait a minute, 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:52.240 that sounds a lot like me, maybe I have it, 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:54.840 and oh, my goodness, I do, and that maybe also 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:55.720 why my kid has it. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.160 Yeah. One of the reasons why they used to think 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.160 it was just a child the disorder that you grew 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.480 out of was because the first batch of kids with 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:09.000 ADHD or ADD they weren't followed into adulthood. They stopped 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.520 studying them after they were kids, so they just didn't 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.280 think about it. And then also, and this is really 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:18.160 sad if you think about this as an adult. As 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.520 you grow up, you get so good at masking your 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.800 symptoms in order to blend into society totally that researchers 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.320 were unaware that there was a whole group of people 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.520 with a disorder that was just went unrecognized because they 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.560 were good at disguising it, which is a huge part 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.600 of ADHD, and it turns out just being neurodiverse in general. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.840 Yeah, for sure. And we'll get to masking more in 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.560 a little bit. But another revision in ninety four in 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.080 the DSM finally divided ADHD up into three types, the 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:55.640 enotent of type, hyperactive impulsive type, and then the combined type, 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:56.480 which is both. 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.040 Yeah, and that's where we are today. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:00.960 Right where we are today. 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:02.839 But you know, the more we learn, I feel like 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.679 every ten years that there's another change. 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:07.160 So who knows where it's gonna stop. 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:13.200 Yeah, they're just going to keep adding letters. Maybe, So 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.200 I say we take a break and come back and 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.280 talk about how this whole thing kind of works in 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:17.640 the brain. 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.200 As far as we know, let's do it. 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:21.320 Definitely should know a. 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:34.160 Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stop about 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.360 insoma or aluminia. 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:44.120 How about the one on border like disorder, that ynder order, 0:11:44.960 --> 0:11:48.520 that one be warm But it was so nice I 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:59.840 learned this, why definitely, body listen, stop stop. 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:04.960 Chuck. 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.040 I can't remember if I said it already, but I 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:12.320 have ADHD myself. What Yeah, And then Jerry does too. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:17.360 It turns out this is the most amazing part of this. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.560 Jerry and I were diagnosed within like a week of 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.680 each other, and we both told you on the same day, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.920 and you found out that you were the only third 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.960 of stuff you should know that doesn't have ADHD. 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.400 Now, and I was like, oh, this is great to 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.160 know here fifteen years into our career. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:36.800 Yeah, I'm surrounded. 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.760 I'm surrounded. But you guys are both wonderful and understanding 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:44.640 this stuff helps everybody understand things because, as you'll see 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:49.760 throughout this episode, ADHD affects you, and it affects your parents, 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:54.040 your loved ones, your partners, your business partners. And I 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:55.960 think the more people understand all this stuff, the more 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.920 empathy we can all have for each other. 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.360 That sounded like a really word prey children's book. 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:04.880 About ADHD, not a kid's book writer. Even though we 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.240 have a kid's book exactly. 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:13.480 That still holds true. So Chuck, there's like it's clear, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.680 like you said, they have a genetic or they found 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.760 a genetic component to this whole thing. They've also found 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:23.439 that there are definite differences in brain structure with people 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.439 who have ADHD. The brains are just simply physically different. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.720 One of the things is that they're smaller in places, 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.000 like they have less volume. Maybe some parts are thinner, 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:37.120 some parts maybe thicker. And it's really important to point 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:42.040 out that brain size is not relative to intelligence. So 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:44.880 if you're verin smaller doesn't mean like you aren't intelligent. 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.160 And maybe here's a really good place to point out 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.839 that one of the things that I think is kind 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.520 of overlooked about people with ADHD is they have the 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.960 same thoughts and feelings and emotions that anybody else does. 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.400 It's just that they have trouble regulating those emotions and 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.320 regulating those behaviors that the same impulses that everybody else 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.760 gets can slip through with a person with ADHD. That 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.120 that damper that's like, well, I can't do that because 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:16.160 it's socially unacceptable that neurotypical people have is kind of 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.200 absent for the most part in people with ADHD unless 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.000 they're really paying attention and trying to hold it back. 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:22.440 Yes. 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:27.880 Absolutely, And what's you know fascinating is that they can 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.160 detect some of these differences, like you know, with brain scans, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:35.640 physical differences as early as age four h which you know, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.000 it suggests at least that like this is innate like 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.120 you were probably born with this if you can be 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.640 you know, four years old and detect differences in brain scans. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.040 Another big one, and this is kind of the the 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.200 real crux of the whole thing is if you were 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.840 a person with ADHD, then that means that you have 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.960 a deficit of two things that really make a big 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:05.280 difference in your life. Dopamine and nora epinephrine, two things 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.520 that we've talked about quite a lot over the years. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:12.480 But you know, we know what dopamine does. And part 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:17.680 of the challenge of ADHD is if you're not getting 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.760 a dopamine hit. And this is just a sort of 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.479 a big generalization, but I think if you have ADHD, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.400 you can probably relate if you're not getting that hit 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.920 of a dopamine, which is a you know, part of 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.920 the reward center, like, hey, you did a great job 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.360 cleaning that room and making that bed, and just look 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.400 at it, my dopamine is hitting and I feel great 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.680 about that. If you're not getting that, or that's you know, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.960 dampered in some way, then you're not gonna be as 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.760 interested in cleaning that room or making that bed. 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:50.040 It's not that. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.320 Your kid doesn't care or as lazy or loves a 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.680 mess is because they literally don't get that same reward 0:15:56.880 --> 0:16:01.440 or adults that same reward that someone who doesn't have 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.000 that neurodiversity does. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.080 And so they're not going to be incentivized to do 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:05.560 that thing. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:06.360 Yeah. 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.640 And as we talked about in the dopamine episode, it's 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.400 not like dopamine gives you that hit of feeling good. 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.200 It's the thing that comes along with whatever makes you 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.160 feel good and says this is important, learn this and 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.480 remember this so that the next time you're faced with 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.400 cleaning a room, you can remember, Oh, there's some good 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:26.160 feeling at the end of this, and if you don't 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.200 have that, yeah, there's there's no reason whatsoever for you 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.960 to get up and clean a room. Especially there's like, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.440 as we'll see, there's actual brain function that's missing or 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.040 impaired in people with ADHD that allows them to self 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.360 arouse and be like, I should really do this. I'm 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:45.440 going to get up and do this. 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:46.280 Yeah. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.160 And fatigue is another sort of I guess, cosymptom of 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:54.480 ADHD sometimes because maybe you don't sleep as well, maybe 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:58.400 the hyperactivity is just wearing you out, or your anxiety which. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:16:59.160 Can also come along. 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.440 So not only are you not getting that dopamine hit, 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.880 and your body isn't learning and your brain isn't learning, Like, hey, 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.000 here's the reward that comes with making that bed if 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:13.120 you're fatigued at the same time, and let's say you're 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.879 an adult and it's not just like make your bed, 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.160 small child. If you have a huge amount of things 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.520 on your plate and you're fatigued and you're not getting 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.919 that dopamine hit, it can I'm sure feel like the 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.360 weight of the world is coming down on you and 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:29.120 you could go into shutdown mode. 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:33.680 Yeah, So one thing I saw is that they don't 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:38.040 think that people with ADHD produce less dopamine. The current 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.720 understanding is that people with ADHD have more dopamine transporters, 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.040 so that dopamine gets moved out of the brain faster, 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.160 so you have less of it at any given point 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.800 in time, not that you make less of it. The 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.840 other one you mentioned is nora pineffron, and that's usually 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.280 the thing that allows you to kind of rouse yourself, 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.119 and it helps you also very import and regulate emotion, 0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:06.760 regulate self control, regulate attention. And so those are the neurotransmitters, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.560 the big ones that definitely in some way, shape or 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.119 form effect ADHD. We just don't fully understand it. But 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.199 one of the other big things that has to do 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:21.439 with the brain is the typically the frontal lobe or 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:29.360 the frontal cortex contains like our higher thinking, our higher behaviors, 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.199 and that's usually put together in something called executive function 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.560 which is a suite of behaviors and cognitive abilities that 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:42.720 essentially let us just be you know, functioning people in 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:46.200 society as far as the terms of society. 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:50.840 Require, Yeah, like how you prioritize your tasks, how you 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.199 handle distractions that come your way, how you control what 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.719 impulses that come your way that may or may not 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:01.280 distract you from those tasks. And you know, we're going 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:06.240 to talk about I guess like six broad executive functioning components, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.920 and if you have ADHD, one or all of these 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.200 are going to be dinged in some way. Doesn't mean 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.840 you can't you have zero executive functioning by any means, 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.800 but it just means with these six things, some of 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.360 them may be worse than others because ADHD, like most things, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:26.520 sort of exist on the spectrum as far as how 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:30.439 sibiera might be for each individual. The first part of 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.879 that executive functioning is working memory. Of course, that's just 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.760 your you know, that's your working memory. It's just like 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.919 thoughts at any given moment about what you're doing and 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.439 what you are remembering to do. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.600 Right. You usually think of working memories like remembering a 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:48.919 phone number while you're going to write it down, you know, 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:53.120 but it also involves everything from like engaging in a conversation, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.600 planning a vacation, like anything where you're having to hold 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:58.560 a bunch of thoughts like in the front of your 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.040 mind while you're kind of working it all out. That's 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:04.280 working memory, and it's really important and it's very frequently 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:09.520 impaired in people with ADHD. Another classic executive function that 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:14.159 is essentially universal as far as ADHD symptoms go is 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:18.119 self restraint or inhibition control, and not just physically, but 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:22.640 also emotionally and attentionally too, like staying in a conversation 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.040 not blurting out something offensive about someone's hair style even 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.160 though you don't mean to hurt their feelings. Another one too, 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.280 being on a diet and then just being like, I'm 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:36.280 just gonna eat a bunch of cookies too. Who cares 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.320 a lot of all of those things? Have to do 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.760 with inhibition control, and that's just a big part of it. 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.560 Yeah, and you can still say, like geez, who wears 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.399 a mullet these days? Just say it very quietly to 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:46.119 your friend. 0:20:46.400 --> 0:20:48.600 Or just think it. And that's another thing too. I 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.560 think that's why a lot of people who don't have 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:55.399 ADHD recognize because they were thinking the same thing, but 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.920 they know not to say it. This person says it, 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.600 you know what I'm saying. That's the friends. 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.679 Yeah, if you've ever heard anybody say something like, oh, 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.080 I got no filter, that person has no filter. 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.480 That person may have ADHD. 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.080 Is a good chance, you know, they're just irresponsible one 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:14.520 of the two. 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.320 Yeah, that's true. You can also just be a jerk. 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:21.120 Planning, organizing, and problem solving is another big one. If 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.439 you have a goal for work or life or whatever, school, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.440 what you usually do when you're executive and when you're 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:34.280 an executive, no, when you're when you're functioning executively. As 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.080 you take that goal, you look at it, you break 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.840 it down into steps and smaller parts. You do an 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:43.000 evaluation of, like what's the best way to tackle this thing? 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.400 And that's a big, big part of problem solving. If 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.240 that is impaired with ADHD, and you're throwing a big 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.360 task or a big worker school project, you may kind 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.600 of just freeze for a while, and you know, you 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.199 know this sounds bad, but you might just sit there 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.639 and think about something entirely different for a little while. 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.919 Yeah, you might go to great links to avoid that task. 0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:11.120 And also not just procrastinating, but like really genuinely having 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.719 trouble focusing because you don't know what to do. You 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:14.800