1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. In today's episode and in part two, we 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: talk very frankly about ADHD and all that that means 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: over the lifetime of a person who has it. So 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: if you're a parent with a kiddo who has ADHD, 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: maybe considered listening by yourself first before you share it 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: with them. Just a thought. Hope you enjoy these episodes. 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: there's Charles w chuck'bryan, and there's Jerry Jerome Roland. You 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: put the three of us together and you got yourself 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: a podcast called Stuff you Should Know. 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 3: That's right. And this is the. 13 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 4: Sort of long simmering we've had it on the back 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 4: burner down to as low as a consummer. You had 15 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 4: many many months the ADHD. What is now to be 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 4: a two part episode because we've had I mean, that's 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 4: not why we're splitting it up, but we have had 18 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 4: a lot of requests for this over the years, and 19 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 4: you know, it's big that could certainly be more than 20 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 4: two episodes. And as much as I wanted to try 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 4: and split this up into AD and HD for fun, 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 4: and it kind of doesn't work that way, so we're 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 4: just gonna split it up into two parts. 24 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: I think you're more thinking of ac DC. 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 3: Oh, okay, that's that's what I think it is. Yeah, 26 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 3: I gotcha, No, chuck. 27 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: Instead, today we're talking about ADHD, which stands for attention 28 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: deficit hyperactivity disorder. Kind of wordy, but it really does 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: get the point across because with ADHD, I'm sure a 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: lot of people are familiar with it, especially the people 31 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: who requested it. It's a I'm not exactly sure exactly 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: what kind of disorder it is, whether it's a mental disorder, 33 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: a personality disorder, an externalizing disorder. There's actually a lot 34 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: of debate about it, but essentially, it's where people have 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: a lot of trouble paying attention, sitting still focusing, and 36 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: a bunch of other stuff that we'll talk about, and 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: you put it all together and it can make life 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: kind of hard to navigate. And at first we'll talk 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: about it a lot more. But kids, it used to 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: be like little boys fidgeting essentially was what ADHD or 41 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: ADD at the time was considered. But over time it's 42 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: really kind of expanded. We've realized way more girls have 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: it than we thought before, and we've also come to 44 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: realize that adults have it too, and that's a I mean, 45 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: it's a really big, huge disorder, and a lot of 46 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: people just kind of use it as shorthand, like, you know, 47 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: I forgot my keys, it's my ADHD or something like that. 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: But the more you know about it, the more you 49 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: realize it's a genuinely debilitating disorder that people have. 50 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes you may lose your keys. 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: It's true, that is a big part of it. I mean, 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: they're not wrong about that. 53 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 3: One for sure. 54 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: So you know, when it comes to something like this, 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 4: that is only and I mean, honestly, in the last 56 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 4: like twenty five ish years, really come more into focus 57 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 4: as far as our understanding of it. 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 3: When you look. 59 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 4: Back through medical and you know, psychiatric literature, you're going 60 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 4: to see it pop up. They just didn't know what 61 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 4: it was at the time. And in this case you 62 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 4: can probably go back all the way to the eighteenth 63 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 4: century with a Scottish physician named Sir Alexander Crichton, who 64 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 4: in his seventeen eighty nine book talked about children who 65 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 4: were unable to focus on one thing at a time 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 4: and you know, it's one of those clear cases kind 67 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 4: of like, oh, well, it was probably somebody with ADHD. 68 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 4: It is not just a modern condition because kids eat 69 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 4: too much sugar and they have screens in their lives. 70 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 4: Screens can we'll talk about that. Can certainly, you know, 71 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 4: make things worse, But it's not like, oh, because people 72 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 4: are so busy and there's too many distractions these days, 73 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 4: and back in the olden times when there were no distractions, 74 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 4: people didn't suffer from something like this. It's just not 75 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 4: true when you hear about some of these old descriptions. 76 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, not at all. And our understanding of it 77 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: has progressed like over the centuries. But it is interesting 78 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: that it started in the eighteenth century because I mean 79 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: Crichton nailed it on the head, like he's like, there's 80 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: definitely something here, and I guess it just kind of 81 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: stayed there for a little while until nineteen oh two 82 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: when a pediatrician from the UK named Sir George Frederick. 83 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: Still ironically, yeah, I thought that too. He described children 84 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: who had a defect of moral control, which is essentially 85 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: saying that these are kids who have troubled delaying gratification, 86 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: not thinking about negative consequences when they carry out actions, 87 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: and that's impulsivity. That's what we call it today, is impulsivity. 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 1: And that's what Still was essentially describing at the time. 89 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, in the thirties, some more descriptors came along from 90 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 4: the courtesy of some German physicians I named Franz Kramer 91 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 4: and Hans pol No in this case talking about more 92 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 4: of the hyperactivity side of things. And then about five 93 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 4: years after that, still in the nineteen thirties, in nineteen 94 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 4: thirty seven, a big I guess breakthrough came along when 95 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 4: a doctor for the Rhode Island Facility for Children with 96 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 4: neurological problems, saying Charles Bradley was doing an experiment where 97 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 4: he was doing a imaging test on the brain, and specifically, 98 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 4: in this case with kids, he was draining some brain 99 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 4: or some fluid around the brain. Rather gave the kids headaches, 100 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: he treated them with benza dream, which is an amphetamine, 101 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 4: And what he found out was, Wow, this doesn't seem 102 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 4: to make any intuitive sense, but giving these children amphetamines 103 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 4: is at least for about half of them, made them 104 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 4: less vigety and more focused, and all of a sudden 105 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 4: you're onto a pharmaceutical potential, pharmaceutical treatment. 106 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what a way to accidentally stumble into that, 107 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: because even today we're not exactly sure how stimulants like 108 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 1: take care of ADHD symptoms. We just know they really 109 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: really work. Luckily, this doctor was like quick complaining, take 110 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: some benz adream and shut up little. 111 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: Kids, and back then the kids obeyed, So. 112 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: There was a so that was actually kind of a 113 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: diversion nineteen thirty seven when when Charles Bradley discovered this 114 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: that amphetamines treat ADHD, it didn't like take off like wildfire, 115 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: because there was an interim period between then and like 116 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: the fifties where psychiatrists and psychologists were like, all this 117 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: stuff needs to just be talked out through psychoanalysis. That's 118 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: how you treat you know, mental disorders. And in the 119 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: fifties finally people were like, no, let's start prescribing drugs. 120 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: And one of the first companies was Siba Geige pharmaceutical company. 121 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 122 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: I mean, you're definitely going to go out of business 123 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: if that's the name of your pharmaceutical company. But they're 124 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: the first ones who developed Riddlin. And it turns out 125 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: that the guy who developed the drug leandro penzone penizone. 126 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: His wife was named Rita and he named it as. 127 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,239 Speaker 3: That's right, lovely Rita. 128 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 4: So it was the first half of the twentieth century 129 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 4: when things started to change, you know, you know not 130 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 4: I guess I could say begin in earnest as far 131 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 4: as researching this kind of thing. A lot of like 132 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: research into brain injuries were happening at the time, and 133 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 4: they thought that, well, hey, this is what's going on 134 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 4: with any kind of developmental issue. It's almost certainly a 135 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 4: brain injury. That can be the case for sure with 136 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 4: all kinds of developmental issues, including ADHD in this case. 137 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 4: But in the nineteen sixties that started to go out 138 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 4: of favor a little bit and they started to realize that, hey, 139 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 4: a lot of this stuff, there are a lot of 140 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 4: actually distinct conditions, and you can't just lump them all 141 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 4: in there and say it's because a kid hit his 142 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 4: head when they were young. 143 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: No. So in the late sixties, the DSM two, the sequel, 144 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: the introduced to diagnosis called hyperkinetic Reaction of childhood and 145 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: it's essentially ADHD that they were talking about, And this 146 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: is the first time it showed up in psychiatry or 147 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: it's like, this is actually a thing. We just aren't 148 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: clear what to name it yet, clearly because we're calling 149 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: it hyperkinetic reaction of childhood. And within a decade and 150 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: a half we finally had it nailed down to attention 151 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: deficit disorder ADD, which people of our age, that was 152 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: what the name we were first exposed to. For sure, 153 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 1: it was not ADHD, this new fangled version. It was 154 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: ad D and that's the way it was, and you. 155 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 3: Liked it, right, right. 156 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 4: ADD had a couple of subtypes depending on whether there 157 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 4: was hyperactivity involved, but they it wasn't like a part 158 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 4: of the actual definition at this point. I think seven 159 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 4: years later it finally landed upon I guess this would 160 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 4: be nineteen eighty seven. But a junior, I'm sorry, sophomore 161 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 4: in high school? 162 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: How is eleven? 163 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: Oh, you were just a cute little eleven year old. 164 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 4: How was a well I didn't get pimples, luckily, but 165 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 4: it would be pimply faced teenager when ADHD finally rolls 166 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 4: through the door. And I think if you had no 167 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 4: hyperactivity attached at that time, it could it was called 168 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 4: undifferentiated ADD Right am I. 169 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 3: Saying all this? 170 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 2: Right? 171 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: I think so yeah, yeah. 172 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: You totally. 173 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 4: And then in the nineties, another big breakthrough came through 174 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 4: when they found out, hey, there's a genetic component to 175 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 4: all this, and there are actually a lot of. 176 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 3: Adults that have this. 177 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 4: We thought kids just grew out of this kind of thing, 178 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 4: but now adults are saying, like when they're diagnosing like 179 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 4: gen xers, basically diagnosing their kids, they're saying, wait a minute, 180 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 4: that sounds a lot like me, maybe I have it, 181 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 4: and oh, my goodness, I do, and that maybe also 182 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 4: why my kid has it. 183 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the reasons why they used to think 184 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: it was just a child the disorder that you grew 185 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: out of was because the first batch of kids with 186 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: ADHD or ADD they weren't followed into adulthood. They stopped 187 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: studying them after they were kids, so they just didn't 188 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: think about it. And then also, and this is really 189 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: sad if you think about this as an adult. As 190 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: you grow up, you get so good at masking your 191 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: symptoms in order to blend into society totally that researchers 192 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: were unaware that there was a whole group of people 193 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: with a disorder that was just went unrecognized because they 194 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: were good at disguising it, which is a huge part 195 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: of ADHD, and it turns out just being neurodiverse in general. 196 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. And we'll get to masking more in 197 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 4: a little bit. But another revision in ninety four in 198 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 4: the DSM finally divided ADHD up into three types, the 199 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 4: enotent of type, hyperactive impulsive type, and then the combined type, 200 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 4: which is both. 201 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's where we are today. 202 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 3: Right where we are today. 203 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 4: But you know, the more we learn, I feel like 204 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 4: every ten years that there's another change. 205 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 3: So who knows where it's gonna stop. 206 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just going to keep adding letters. Maybe, So 207 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: I say we take a break and come back and 208 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: talk about how this whole thing kind of works in 209 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: the brain. 210 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 3: As far as we know, let's do it. 211 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: Definitely should know a. 212 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 5: Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stop about 213 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 5: insoma or aluminia. 214 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: How about the one on border like disorder, that ynder order, 215 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: that one be warm But it was so nice I 216 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: learned this, why definitely, body listen, stop stop. 217 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 3: Chuck. 218 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: I can't remember if I said it already, but I 219 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: have ADHD myself. What Yeah, And then Jerry does too. 220 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: It turns out this is the most amazing part of this. 221 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: Jerry and I were diagnosed within like a week of 222 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: each other, and we both told you on the same day, 223 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: and you found out that you were the only third 224 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: of stuff you should know that doesn't have ADHD. 225 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 4: Now, and I was like, oh, this is great to 226 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 4: know here fifteen years into our career. 227 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm surrounded. 228 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 4: I'm surrounded. But you guys are both wonderful and understanding 229 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 4: this stuff helps everybody understand things because, as you'll see 230 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 4: throughout this episode, ADHD affects you, and it affects your parents, 231 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 4: your loved ones, your partners, your business partners. And I 232 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 4: think the more people understand all this stuff, the more 233 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 4: empathy we can all have for each other. 234 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: That sounded like a really word prey children's book. 235 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 3: About ADHD, not a kid's book writer. Even though we 236 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 3: have a kid's book exactly. 237 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: That still holds true. So Chuck, there's like it's clear, 238 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,680 Speaker 1: like you said, they have a genetic or they found 239 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: a genetic component to this whole thing. They've also found 240 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: that there are definite differences in brain structure with people 241 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: who have ADHD. The brains are just simply physically different. 242 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: One of the things is that they're smaller in places, 243 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: like they have less volume. Maybe some parts are thinner, 244 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: some parts maybe thicker. And it's really important to point 245 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: out that brain size is not relative to intelligence. So 246 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: if you're verin smaller doesn't mean like you aren't intelligent. 247 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: And maybe here's a really good place to point out 248 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 1: that one of the things that I think is kind 249 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: of overlooked about people with ADHD is they have the 250 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: same thoughts and feelings and emotions that anybody else does. 251 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: It's just that they have trouble regulating those emotions and 252 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: regulating those behaviors that the same impulses that everybody else 253 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: gets can slip through with a person with ADHD. That 254 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: that damper that's like, well, I can't do that because 255 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: it's socially unacceptable that neurotypical people have is kind of 256 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: absent for the most part in people with ADHD unless 257 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: they're really paying attention and trying to hold it back. 258 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: Yes. 259 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 4: Absolutely, And what's you know fascinating is that they can 260 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 4: detect some of these differences, like you know, with brain scans, 261 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 4: physical differences as early as age four h which you know, 262 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 4: it suggests at least that like this is innate like 263 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 4: you were probably born with this if you can be 264 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 4: you know, four years old and detect differences in brain scans. 265 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 4: Another big one, and this is kind of the the 266 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 4: real crux of the whole thing is if you were 267 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 4: a person with ADHD, then that means that you have 268 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 4: a deficit of two things that really make a big 269 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 4: difference in your life. Dopamine and nora epinephrine, two things 270 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 4: that we've talked about quite a lot over the years. 271 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 4: But you know, we know what dopamine does. And part 272 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 4: of the challenge of ADHD is if you're not getting 273 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 4: a dopamine hit. And this is just a sort of 274 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,479 Speaker 4: a big generalization, but I think if you have ADHD, 275 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 4: you can probably relate if you're not getting that hit 276 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 4: of a dopamine, which is a you know, part of 277 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 4: the reward center, like, hey, you did a great job 278 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 4: cleaning that room and making that bed, and just look 279 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 4: at it, my dopamine is hitting and I feel great 280 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 4: about that. If you're not getting that, or that's you know, 281 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 4: dampered in some way, then you're not gonna be as 282 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 4: interested in cleaning that room or making that bed. 283 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: It's not that. 284 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 4: Your kid doesn't care or as lazy or loves a 285 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 4: mess is because they literally don't get that same reward 286 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 4: or adults that same reward that someone who doesn't have 287 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: that neurodiversity does. 288 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: And so they're not going to be incentivized to do 289 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 3: that thing. 290 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 4: Yeah. 291 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: And as we talked about in the dopamine episode, it's 292 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: not like dopamine gives you that hit of feeling good. 293 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: It's the thing that comes along with whatever makes you 294 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: feel good and says this is important, learn this and 295 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: remember this so that the next time you're faced with 296 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: cleaning a room, you can remember, Oh, there's some good 297 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: feeling at the end of this, and if you don't 298 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: have that, yeah, there's there's no reason whatsoever for you 299 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: to get up and clean a room. Especially there's like, 300 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: as we'll see, there's actual brain function that's missing or 301 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: impaired in people with ADHD that allows them to self 302 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: arouse and be like, I should really do this. I'm 303 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: going to get up and do this. 304 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 305 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 4: And fatigue is another sort of I guess, cosymptom of 306 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: ADHD sometimes because maybe you don't sleep as well, maybe 307 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 4: the hyperactivity is just wearing you out, or your anxiety which. 308 00:16:58,240 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 3: Can also come along. 309 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 4: So not only are you not getting that dopamine hit, 310 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 4: and your body isn't learning and your brain isn't learning, Like, hey, 311 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 4: here's the reward that comes with making that bed if 312 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 4: you're fatigued at the same time, and let's say you're 313 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 4: an adult and it's not just like make your bed, 314 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 4: small child. If you have a huge amount of things 315 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 4: on your plate and you're fatigued and you're not getting 316 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 4: that dopamine hit, it can I'm sure feel like the 317 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 4: weight of the world is coming down on you and 318 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 4: you could go into shutdown mode. 319 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, So one thing I saw is that they don't 320 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: think that people with ADHD produce less dopamine. The current 321 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: understanding is that people with ADHD have more dopamine transporters, 322 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: so that dopamine gets moved out of the brain faster, 323 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: so you have less of it at any given point 324 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: in time, not that you make less of it. The 325 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: other one you mentioned is nora pineffron, and that's usually 326 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 1: the thing that allows you to kind of rouse yourself, 327 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: and it helps you also very import and regulate emotion, 328 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: regulate self control, regulate attention. And so those are the neurotransmitters, 329 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: the big ones that definitely in some way, shape or 330 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: form effect ADHD. We just don't fully understand it. But 331 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: one of the other big things that has to do 332 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: with the brain is the typically the frontal lobe or 333 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: the frontal cortex contains like our higher thinking, our higher behaviors, 334 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: and that's usually put together in something called executive function 335 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: which is a suite of behaviors and cognitive abilities that 336 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: essentially let us just be you know, functioning people in 337 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: society as far as the terms of society. 338 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 4: Require, Yeah, like how you prioritize your tasks, how you 339 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 4: handle distractions that come your way, how you control what 340 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 4: impulses that come your way that may or may not 341 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 4: distract you from those tasks. And you know, we're going 342 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: to talk about I guess like six broad executive functioning components, 343 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 4: and if you have ADHD, one or all of these 344 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 4: are going to be dinged in some way. Doesn't mean 345 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 4: you can't you have zero executive functioning by any means, 346 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 4: but it just means with these six things, some of 347 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 4: them may be worse than others because ADHD, like most things, 348 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 4: sort of exist on the spectrum as far as how 349 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,439 Speaker 4: sibiera might be for each individual. The first part of 350 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 4: that executive functioning is working memory. Of course, that's just 351 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 4: your you know, that's your working memory. It's just like 352 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 4: thoughts at any given moment about what you're doing and 353 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 4: what you are remembering to do. 354 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: Right. You usually think of working memories like remembering a 355 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: phone number while you're going to write it down, you know, 356 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: but it also involves everything from like engaging in a conversation, 357 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: planning a vacation, like anything where you're having to hold 358 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of thoughts like in the front of your 359 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: mind while you're kind of working it all out. That's 360 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: working memory, and it's really important and it's very frequently 361 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: impaired in people with ADHD. Another classic executive function that 362 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: is essentially universal as far as ADHD symptoms go is 363 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: self restraint or inhibition control, and not just physically, but 364 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 1: also emotionally and attentionally too, like staying in a conversation 365 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: not blurting out something offensive about someone's hair style even 366 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: though you don't mean to hurt their feelings. Another one too, 367 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: being on a diet and then just being like, I'm 368 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: just gonna eat a bunch of cookies too. Who cares 369 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: a lot of all of those things? Have to do 370 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: with inhibition control, and that's just a big part of it. 371 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can still say, like geez, who wears 372 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 4: a mullet these days? Just say it very quietly to 373 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 4: your friend. 374 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: Or just think it. And that's another thing too. I 375 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: think that's why a lot of people who don't have 376 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: ADHD recognize because they were thinking the same thing, but 377 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: they know not to say it. This person says it, 378 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. That's the friends. 379 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you've ever heard anybody say something like, oh, 380 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 4: I got no filter, that person has no filter. 381 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 3: That person may have ADHD. 382 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: Is a good chance, you know, they're just irresponsible one 383 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: of the two. 384 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. You can also just be a jerk. 385 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 4: Planning, organizing, and problem solving is another big one. If 386 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 4: you have a goal for work or life or whatever, school, 387 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 4: what you usually do when you're executive and when you're 388 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 4: an executive, no, when you're when you're functioning executively. As 389 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 4: you take that goal, you look at it, you break 390 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 4: it down into steps and smaller parts. You do an 391 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 4: evaluation of, like what's the best way to tackle this thing? 392 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 4: And that's a big, big part of problem solving. If 393 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 4: that is impaired with ADHD, and you're throwing a big 394 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 4: task or a big worker school project, you may kind 395 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 4: of just freeze for a while, and you know, you 396 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 4: know this sounds bad, but you might just sit there 397 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 4: and think about something entirely different for a little while. 398 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, you might go to great links to avoid that task. 399 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: And also not just procrastinating, but like really genuinely having 400 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,719 Speaker 1: trouble focusing because you don't know what to do. You 401 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: don't know where to start. 402 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, like you can't do it. It's not that's a 403 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 4: disinterest or anything like that. 404 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: Right. Another one's decision making, which kind of ties into that, 405 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: where you know, you can't just say yes to everything. 406 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: That's not how life works. So you have to take 407 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: into like account future consequences and you have to figure 408 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: out do I have time to do all of these things, 409 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: and if not, which one's more important? Like all that 410 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: goes into decision making, and that can be largely impaired too, 411 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: not just not like necessarily all the time, But you 412 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: were just kind of mentioning something called ADHD paralysis that 413 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: where like things can get so overwhelming you cannot know 414 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: where to start your you know, like your bosses coming 415 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: down the hall to get this report. You haven't even 416 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: started on, and like you just shut down. You can't 417 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: decide anything, you can't really focus on anything. That's called 418 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: ADHD paralysis, and that can come from having to make decisions. 419 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's where as a parent or as a partner, 420 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 4: a business partner or life partner to someone, if you 421 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 4: don't have that challenge, that's when you can really step 422 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 4: up and sit down with your kid or your friend 423 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 4: or partner and say, all right, let's sit down and 424 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 4: look at this. Let's talk about the steps, like maybe 425 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 4: what a good first step might be, maybe get a 426 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 4: little help organizing something. Those are Like to be a 427 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 4: really active involved parent or partner is key to everyone, 428 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 4: you know, doing the best they can in life. 429 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. 430 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: And we'll talk more about like what parents and like 431 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 1: family members and spouses and all that can do later 432 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: on down the road. But that's a great that's a 433 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: great thing to hit multiple times, you know. 434 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 3: Yeah. 435 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 4: Time management is another big one that kind of ties 436 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,119 Speaker 4: into a little bit of the planning and organization and 437 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 4: stuff like that. But just being able to allocate your time, 438 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 4: keep track of the deadlines. 439 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 3: It may seem counterintuitive. 440 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 4: But if you are a person with ADHD, you might 441 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 4: do much better with a deadline instead of some just 442 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 4: amorphous task this handed to you. So like knowing the 443 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 4: deadline may be really good for you, or the deadline 444 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 4: may just come and go sometimes as well. 445 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not necessarily because they're like I don't 446 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: care about this deadline. They may have literally forgotten about it. 447 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: I read a horror story Chuck about a guy with 448 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: ADHD an adult whose boss came to him and said, Hey, 449 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: you know, why don't you run Monday's meeting. I'm not 450 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: going to be there, And the guy was like, I 451 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: knew that this was like a step toward like getting 452 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: me ready for the next level, for a promotion into management, 453 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: So he was really excited about it, and then over 454 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: the weekend he totally forgot about it. When the Monday 455 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: meeting came around, he sat down with everybody else waiting 456 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: for the boss, wondering where the boss was, and they 457 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: all just left the meeting and went back to work, 458 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: and his boss came and asked him how the meeting went, 459 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: and he's like, what are you talking about? And it 460 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: finally sunk into him, like what had just happened, and 461 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: think about that, like, he just probably totally scuttled any 462 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: chance of that promotion. Yeah, because he just forgot about it. 463 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 1: And that's just something that can happen with it. That's 464 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,879 Speaker 1: a frequent reason people with ADHD miss deadlines. They just 465 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: forget that they have one. 466 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 4: You should have saved that for Halloween. That horror story, Yeah, 467 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 4: where's the knocker? 468 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: Didn't that just turn your stomach least imagining that guy 469 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: for sure. 470 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 4: And then the last part of executive functioning that can 471 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 4: be impaired is another big one. It's called task shifting, 472 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 4: and it leads into a couple of things we're going 473 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 4: to talk about. That means you get out of your 474 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 4: default mode, which we'll expand on here in a second, 475 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 4: and doing something called set shifting, which is you know, 476 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 4: being able to switch from task to task, being flexible 477 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 4: as you're doing that, maybe realizing that different tasks and 478 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 4: different situations require different rules. And if you don't have that, 479 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 4: if that's impaired, you might be really rigid in how 480 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 4: you think something has to be done, a very black 481 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 4: and white thinking. They can come across to others as stubborn, 482 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 4: but in the ADHD mind, you just have a hard 483 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 4: time task shifting right exactly. 484 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,479 Speaker 1: And that's a huge classic one too, like you just 485 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: focus on one thing or you can't start another thing too. 486 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: And if you put all that together in life, people 487 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: with ADHD, they have trouble remembering to pay bills, they 488 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: forget that they have homework, They say or do in 489 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: appropriate things like not waiting for their turn to speak. 490 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: They have trouble self motivating, staying on task. They misplace things, 491 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: They have false memories, which is a really big one 492 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: that we'll talk about. They can't remember important dates or 493 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: that they're supposed to run a meeting. And another big 494 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: one too is that they'll very frequently ADHD causes you 495 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: to walk into a room and you have no idea 496 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: what you went in there for. You knew you went 497 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: in there for. Something that happens sometimes too, but imagine 498 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: every time. 499 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, now I can't because it's it's frustrating and it 500 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 4: can also be alarming. 501 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: Yes, that's another thing too, is especially as you age 502 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: with ADHD, you can still be like, okay, is this 503 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: ADHD or am I developing early on said dementia? Like 504 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 1: there's a lot of overlap and it can be very scary, 505 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: but sure you also learn tricks like you just leave 506 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: the room and go back out to where you just were, 507 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: and you're going to see like a clue that will 508 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 1: prompt you to remember, and then you just think about 509 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: it while you're going into the room and then you remember. 510 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: It's usually just amounts to an extra trip back out 511 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 1: of the room and then back into it. But it 512 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: is just frustrating for sure. 513 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 4: You know what they call that in the l film biz. 514 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 4: Do you remember a mcguffin, Now you go back to one? 515 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, that's right, that's right back to one. 516 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: Dad saying that he would always pinch the bridge of 517 00:27:57,680 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: his nose while he was saying, yeah, back. 518 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 3: To one just means first position of that scene. 519 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 4: Like if the scene starts and you're in the doorway, 520 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 4: go back to one, You go back to that doorway. 521 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 4: So maybe that's a fun way to remember that kind 522 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 4: of thing. 523 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that, Chuck. 524 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 3: Way to go. 525 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 4: Now, let's not take a break yet, because I think 526 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 4: we should talk. I mentioned default mode. Default mode network 527 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 4: is a very big part of this, at least understanding 528 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 4: of this. The brain regions collectively that function when you're 529 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 4: just hanging out when you're hanging out on the couch, 530 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 4: you don't have anything to do in the moment. I 531 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 4: mean people with no children can identify with this, maybe 532 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 4: I can't. But the times of the day where you 533 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 4: can just sit around and introspect and daydream and zone 534 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 4: out a little bit, that's called default mode. And when 535 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 4: you're doing that, there are parts of your brain that 536 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 4: become really active and light up during default mode. And 537 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 4: if you have if you're a neurotypical person, going between 538 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 4: default mode, because once you have to kick into action mode, 539 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 4: that default mode turns off and switching between those if 540 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 4: your neurotypical is you know, it works as it should 541 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 4: if you have ADHD, and the problem is that default 542 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 4: mode stays on sometimes they've shown this in brain imaging studies. 543 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 4: So if you're doing a task that requires focus, your 544 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 4: default mode still may be on and that's active at 545 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 4: the same time. And those two things are not SYMPATICO. 546 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: No, and like by sometimes it's pretty much all the time, 547 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: like it just does not shut off. So that amounts 548 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: to there's a psychiatrist and Ned Hollowell, MD, who put 549 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: it as a persistent magnetic pull away from the task 550 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: at hand into distraction. So you're because your brain is 551 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: like no, no, no, we're over here, We're going to daydream. 552 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: Because your default mode network is on, you can't focus 553 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: for long periods on the task at hand, or if 554 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: you can, it's a constant struggle to resist. You're letting 555 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: your mind wander. You have to actively keep it focused 556 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: on the thing you're doing because you're like you said, 557 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: the action network didn't take over and the default mode 558 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: network go down, you know, proportionately to one another. Now 559 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: they're just both. 560 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 3: On default net network go down turned into tuk took 561 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: for me? 562 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 4: Yeahs is so, And we'll talk about medication and you know, 563 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 4: I guess probably in part two. But aside from medication, 564 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 4: if you are trying to help turn that default mode 565 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 4: network down or off, breathing techniques are a big part 566 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 4: of that, Like trying to stay in the present, bring 567 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 4: yourself back to the present through breathing techniques and mindfulness exercises, 568 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 4: those can go a long way. 569 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Do you want to take a break 570 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: and then come back and talk some more about you 571 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: know ADHD Yeah? 572 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 3: Sure, so it three here. 573 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: Definitely should know. 574 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 4: Y s K get. 575 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 5: Lately, I've been learning some stuff about insomnia or aluminia. 576 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: How about the one on borderlight disorder that are under order? 577 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 2: Heard that one before, but it was. 578 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: So nice I learned this. 579 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 5: Why except everybody listen up. 580 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 2: Shot, stop stop stop? 581 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 3: All right? 582 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 4: So, uh, this is a big one, maybe one of 583 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 4: the biggest sort of downsides to ADHD. Uh, And don't worry, 584 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 4: there are some upsides too, because you know there are 585 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 4: some quote ADHD superpowers here and there that we're going 586 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 4: to talk about, so take heart. But one of the 587 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 4: biggest drawbacks is called rejection sensitive dysphoria or RSD. 588 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 3: It's a very. 589 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 4: Destructive thing if you have it. It's very destructive to 590 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 4: people around you. It's the basically it's basically when any 591 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 4: any kind of rejection or even appearance of rejection, even 592 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 4: if it's not rejection, will trigger a very very intense 593 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 4: flood of emotion that is, it almost has and can 594 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 4: feel like it's having, and can have an actual physical 595 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 4: effect that is so strong. Not just a fear of rejection, 596 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 4: just a because no one likes rejection, but if you 597 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 4: have ADHD and RSD anything like that can bring a 598 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 4: real flood of negativity around you. 599 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be actual rejection, but it can also 600 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 1: be something like constructive criticism, which is important to be 601 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: able to take a perceived slight, maybe a made up slight, 602 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: somebody's fleeting facial expression, and offhand comment your own false beliefs. 603 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: And then there's two ways generally that a person with 604 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: RSD or we should just say ADHD will respond to 605 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: that to that perceived rejection. They can internalize where they'll 606 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: just emotionally curl up into a ball and just shut down, 607 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: or they may also lash out and they'll have a 608 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: meltdown or an outburst, or they'll become angry. That's called externalization. 609 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: And so to really kind of put it in perspective, 610 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: imagine either one of those being the response that you 611 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: get when you ask someone to not leave their dirty 612 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: dishes in the sink. 613 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, Like that's RST. 614 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: That's what it's like living with RSC. That's what it's 615 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: like having with RSC. And the big problem is the 616 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: whole thing is instant. It's not like I'm gonna have 617 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: an outbur burst, I'm gonna melt down, I'm gonna emotionally 618 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: ball up. It just it just it goes from trigger 619 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: to response with nothing in between. 620 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you know, the person in your life 621 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 4: may end up, even if they're understanding of what's going on, 622 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 4: may end up walking on eggshells, may not want to 623 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 4: criticize or constructively or otherwise anything about that person in 624 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 4: fear of like a meltdown or an emotional outburst or 625 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 4: something like that, because it can it can really disrupt 626 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,240 Speaker 4: like a relationship. So you know, you've got one side 627 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 4: where someone can't help something, and you've got the other 628 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 4: side where even if that person can't help it, it's 629 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,720 Speaker 4: destructive to the relationship. So I'm just gonna do everything 630 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 4: I can to avoid any sort of confrontation. 631 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes it really hard to have a connection 632 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: with somebody who might just melt down at you at 633 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: the slightest provocation, right, Yeah, and you said something the 634 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: person can't help it. The person with RC cannot help this. 635 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: They're not being a jerk, like, they can't not do this. 636 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: And one of the problems with it is that it's 637 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: really fleeting. It's like a tidal wave or getting punched 638 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: in the stomach, that's what it feels like. The overwhelming emotion, 639 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: like you said, but that's fairly fleeting, and then that 640 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 1: gets replaced by regret and then feelings of shame every 641 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: time because you're just so ashamed you can't control yourself. Right, So, 642 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: some people who have RSD will become people pleasers where 643 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: they don't share their thoughts, they're true emotions, they're true opinions, 644 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,720 Speaker 1: they don't share themselves because what they're doing is cutting 645 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: off as much risk as possible of being rejected and 646 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: thus triggering an about of RSD. 647 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, that's a vicious cycle, it is. 648 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 1: And so initially they used to think that it was 649 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: comorbid with ADHD, that it was a separate thing, and 650 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: it's not even recognized in the DSM yet. It's that 651 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: that recently recognized. But apparently studies have found that essentially 652 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: one hundred percent of people with ADHD also have RSD. 653 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,760 Speaker 1: So they're just basically coming to the conclusion that it's 654 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: a it's a terrible symptom of ADHD. 655 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:16,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. 656 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 4: We'd mentioned some benefits and positive things. Hyper focus is 657 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 4: one of them. It's sometimes called the superpower of ADHD. 658 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 4: If you and I've seen this with all kinds of 659 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 4: people in my life that have ADHD, if it's there, 660 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 4: if it's something they're into and they're interested in, and 661 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 4: they can zero in on that thing. It is like, 662 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 4: I mean, hyper focus doesn't even begin to describe it. 663 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 4: They can tune out everything, and sometimes to their own detriment, 664 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 4: you know, if it's like other things in their life 665 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 4: that need attention, hyper focus can distract away from those. 666 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 3: But it can also be a great thing. If you 667 00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 3: are someone. 668 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 4: With ADHD, you may have a real like a real 669 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 4: skill for like zoning in on something. Maybe a particular 670 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 4: kind of job might be really really good for you, right, 671 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 4: or particular tasks maybe really really great for you, and 672 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 4: you can get a lot done sometimes that way. 673 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the exact opposite of your inability to 674 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: self motivate, right. 675 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 676 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: I saw a corporate study bandied about the statistic all 677 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,879 Speaker 1: over the place, but essentially this one company found that 678 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: a person, a neurodiverse person who is locked into something 679 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: that interests them in their work will essentially do the 680 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: job of two people. They produce between ninety and one 681 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: hundred and forty percent more work than their peers in 682 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: the same, say, department, and that their work is consistent 683 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: and error free, typically because they're just totally laser focused 684 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: on that thing. So if you can find a job 685 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: that holds your interests like that, you're you're very much 686 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: in luck, because unfortunately, one of the things that is 687 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: a huge challenge for people with ADHD is finding a job. 688 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: When you have to find a job that doesn't hold 689 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 1: your interests, it's very difficult to arouse yourself to do that, 690 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 1: even though you know like you have to do this 691 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: and you should be doing it and you feel terrible 692 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: for not doing it, it's really hard to do sometimes. 693 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, which is why I sort of understanding yourself and 694 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,839 Speaker 4: your challenges is like really key when you go out 695 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 4: into the world and join the workforce, Like it's important 696 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 4: for anyone to go into the job starts thinking like, 697 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 4: all right, what am I really good at and what 698 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 4: are my challenges? But I just think it's probably times 699 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 4: a million if you have ADHD. 700 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, for sure. Another kind of something related 701 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: to this is you can become laser focused on just 702 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: everyday tasks that end up catching your interest somehow surprisingly, 703 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: and so people with ADHD, if they're doing a task 704 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,959 Speaker 1: and they're in hyper focus, it'll take them way longer 705 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: to do it frequently, But that's because they're doing a 706 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 1: perfect job of it. So, like say vacuuming the car, 707 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: you just go to vacuum the car and you're like, huh, 708 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 1: this caught my interest in Now I'm totally focused on 709 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: making this car immaculately clean in every way, shape or form. 710 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: So of course it's going to go from taking fifteen 711 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: minutes to taking an hour and a half. You know, 712 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: but when you're done, the car looks awesome. 713 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 714 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 4: So maybe they're probably CEOs all over the place now 715 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,640 Speaker 4: trying to staff up certain departments. 716 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's actually a thing, and there. 717 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 4: Are probably people that should be auto detailers and start 718 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,479 Speaker 4: up your own a small business that way. 719 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, one of the things I saw I read 720 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: a del Watt or how do you say that that 721 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,240 Speaker 1: consulting firm. 722 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: I don't know, it doesn't matter. 723 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: I read one of their reports and they were saying that, 724 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: you know, traditionally people think like, Okay, there's there's got 725 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: to be a good job for a neurodiverse person, like 726 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: maybe programming or coding or something like that. Just let 727 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: them go off and be themselves by themselves. Yeah, and 728 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,799 Speaker 1: they're starting to recognize like, no, like you can put 729 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: somebody that's neurodiverse in any job, and if they find 730 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: something interesting in it, they're going to excel at it. 731 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,800 Speaker 1: It's not necessarily a specific field that applies to neurodiverse people. 732 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. 733 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 4: And you know, kind of tagging onto what we were 734 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 4: just talking about, viewing yourself as you know, not having 735 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 4: some sort of defect or deficit and like, hey, this 736 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 4: is who I am, this is. 737 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:33,560 Speaker 3: How I like. 738 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 4: I have no choice but to operate this way and 739 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,759 Speaker 4: try and work, you know, within that framework, not the 740 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 4: framework of somebody who doesn't have this, who doesn't have ADHD. 741 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 4: Like it's a the world and jobs a lot of 742 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 4: times are kind of structured around I mean, yeah, the 743 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,399 Speaker 4: entire world is structured around people who aren't neurodiverse. So 744 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 4: fitting into that world can be a real challenge no 745 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 4: matter what your neurodiversity is. So kind of working with 746 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 4: who you are and understanding that is a real key 747 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 4: to moving forward in life. 748 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are a lot of positives upsides to 749 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: having ADHD that kind of give you talents that other 750 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: people don't necessarily have. Like one of them is I 751 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,400 Speaker 1: saw it described as you're getting so much noise at 752 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: any given time you're inevitably going to also get more 753 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: data points than other people at any given time, And 754 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,280 Speaker 1: people with ADHD have a typically an ability to connect 755 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,440 Speaker 1: dots that other people make, connections that other people can't see. 756 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: That's a big one. Another one is like, if you 757 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,879 Speaker 1: are multitasking and you actually get those projects done, that 758 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,160 Speaker 1: kind of boundless energy that's synonymous with the hyperactive part 759 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: of ADHD, you're gonna get a ton of stuff done 760 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: in any given day, way more than like a neurotypical 761 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: person who you know, poops out halfway through the day. 762 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 763 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 4: Another potential positive is, you know, earlier when we were 764 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,719 Speaker 4: talking about some of the impaired executive functions and being 765 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 4: super just sort of black and white and rigid, when 766 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 4: you apply that to a moral code, you may have 767 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 4: a very strong moral compass, whereas somebody who's a little 768 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 4: more sees like the gray instead of the black and 769 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,880 Speaker 4: white might be like, well, you know, it's really not 770 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 4: so bad if this kind of if you do this 771 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 4: kind of thing, Whereas if you have a very strict 772 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 4: sort of view of right and wrong in a black 773 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 4: and white sense of that, you may be like, no, 774 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:32,200 Speaker 4: that's just wrong. 775 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: Chuck, there was this one time where I tried to 776 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,880 Speaker 1: fight two guys who I thought were throwing rocks at 777 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 1: a manateee and like I was seeing red. You me 778 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: was even like it's not a manity stop and I 779 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: didn't even hear. And those guys were like, it's a rock, 780 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: We're not throwing rocks amanities. I was like, oh all right, 781 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,880 Speaker 1: and luckily they were cool with it. But I was 782 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 1: ready to fight two dudes for throwing rocks at amanity. 783 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: Like my sense of justice was just that stricken. 784 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,759 Speaker 3: I wish I would have been there. How might we 785 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 3: might have fought them anyway. 786 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,239 Speaker 4: Josh, Just because I've never been in a fight, right, So, 787 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 4: like I don't know, it'd be fun to get in 788 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 4: a fight. 789 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 3: With you, right, sure? 790 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:11,879 Speaker 1: Oh yeah back to back? 791 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly with the two Musketeers. 792 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: Another one Chuck is if a person with ADHD gets excited, 793 00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: it's infectious. Typically if they're in a place where they 794 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: feel safe and comfortable, like just showing their excitement and 795 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: just letting it hang out, You're probably going to get 796 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: excited along with them because it's just so it just 797 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: fills over. It can be really nice to. 798 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 3: Be around, for sure. 799 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 1: One more thing if you have ADHD, you very typically 800 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: catastrophize as far as thinking goes. You're just constantly expecting 801 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 1: the worst, just because over and over and over again 802 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: in your life the worst has come around because you 803 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: forgot to do something or whatever. So that catastrophic thinking 804 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 1: can actually be an asset in that you can look 805 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,560 Speaker 1: at something that everybody's about to do, like, well, we're 806 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: all gonna die if we do this that no one 807 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 1: else saw, and you can find a safer option in 808 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: that way. It's actually a huge benefit of having ADHD, 809 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: even though you have to suffer with catastrophic thinking in 810 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: order for that to be an asset too. 811 00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 2: You know. 812 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, Chuck, I say that we end part. 813 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,720 Speaker 3: One here, Yeah, just getting cooking too, and then we're. 814 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,239 Speaker 1: Going to pick up part two and we're going to 815 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,960 Speaker 1: talk more about ADHD and part two, and then while 816 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about ADHD, we'll eventually finish part two and 817 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: then that will complete part one and two of ADHD. 818 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: What do you think about that. 819 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 3: For a plan? I think that sounds great. 820 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 4: And as is custom here, we don't do listener mail 821 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,359 Speaker 4: or anything for these two parters, so I guess we'll 822 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 4: just say see you Thursday. 823 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and finish on that dramatic pause, like the very 824 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:49,480 Speaker 1: special episode of Different Strokes. 825 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 826 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the Iheartrate you up, 827 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 828 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:10,120 Speaker 1: H m hm