WEBVTT - Here's Why Vaccine Hesitancy Is A Growing Problem

0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:09.479
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Stephen, Carol and

0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.160
<v Speaker 1>vis Is Here's Why, where we take one news story

0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.440
<v Speaker 1>and explain it in just a few minutes with our

0:00:14.480 --> 0:00:21.360
<v Speaker 1>experts here at Bloomberg. There have been several surprises in

0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:25.239
<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump's choices for key roles in his administration, but

0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:29.000
<v Speaker 1>his nominee to lead the Health Department that's been particularly controversial.

0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.199
<v Speaker 2>He's a very long anti vaccine activist. He is a

0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.440
<v Speaker 2>science denihilist, and he's a conspiracy theorist. This is not

0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.080
<v Speaker 2>the kind of person you want to head health agencies.

0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he has said that no vaccine is a

0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.360
<v Speaker 2>benefit is tremendous power over all Americans' day to day lives.

0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:45.840
<v Speaker 3>He wants to make people healthy.

0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.760
<v Speaker 4>It's driven him pretty wild over the last number of years,

0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.280
<v Speaker 4>and today I nominated him for I guess if you

0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:55.200
<v Speaker 4>like health, then if you like people that live a

0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:57.240
<v Speaker 4>long time, it's the most important position.

0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.200
<v Speaker 3>RFK Junior Bobby Robert F.

0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Kennedy Junior has been vocal in his opposition to vaccines,

0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:08.479
<v Speaker 1>notably during the COVID nineteen pandemic. He was widely condemned

0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.759
<v Speaker 1>for calling the shots a crime against humanity. If he's confirmed.

0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.720
<v Speaker 1>His position of influence on US health policy comes at

0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.920
<v Speaker 1>a time when anti vaccine sentiment has already undermined progress

0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:23.640
<v Speaker 1>in tackling diseases such as measles. Cases jumped by twenty

0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.240
<v Speaker 1>percent last year, exposing the gaps in vaccine coverage for

0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:32.039
<v Speaker 1>a preventable illness. So here's why vaccine hesitancy is a

0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:38.200
<v Speaker 1>growing problem. Sam Fazali, director of research at Bloomberg Intelligence,

0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.160
<v Speaker 1>joins me now for more. Sam, this idea of being

0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.760
<v Speaker 1>opposed to vaccines or skeptical or hesitant about them isn't new,

0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.280
<v Speaker 1>But how far can we trace the sort of philosophy back.

0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:53.840
<v Speaker 5>Generally vaccine hesitancy. Vaccine questions, as we all know, have

0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:57.600
<v Speaker 5>been around like any other medicine, really as soon as

0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.440
<v Speaker 5>something is available. Right now, we have obcent drugs and

0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:02.880
<v Speaker 5>lots of people are questioning about O weekitly drugs. So

0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:05.880
<v Speaker 5>any new product, any new technology that comes along, there

0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.640
<v Speaker 5>are skeptics. And sometimes that's very useful because it pushes

0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:11.480
<v Speaker 5>you to think it harder to make sure you have

0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.440
<v Speaker 5>the data and the science backing the risk benefit ratio,

0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:17.960
<v Speaker 5>and that is the critical element of any intervention.

0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.440
<v Speaker 3>Than we do in our lives risk benefit ratio.

0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.040
<v Speaker 1>So is there any concept that this sentiment is on

0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the rise of what effect can we think that it

0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:29.680
<v Speaker 1>has in terms of public health?

0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:34.120
<v Speaker 5>There is evidence that the view of particularly parents with

0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:38.440
<v Speaker 5>regards to childhood vaccinations in terms of negativity is rising.

0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.640
<v Speaker 5>If you think back, we had that zudo scientific paper

0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:46.079
<v Speaker 5>that was published quite a long time ago suggesting that certain.

0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:47.280
<v Speaker 3>Vaccines lead to autism.

0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.280
<v Speaker 5>Was of course that the study was flawed, that statistics

0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.560
<v Speaker 5>were flawed, the analysis was flawed, and that's been proven

0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.400
<v Speaker 5>over and over again. So but there is a tendency

0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.880
<v Speaker 5>and there seems to be an increasing attitude you toward

0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:03.520
<v Speaker 5>I don't want to expose my child to whatever it

0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.239
<v Speaker 5>is that people think that they're doing negative for their kids,

0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.040
<v Speaker 5>which of course is as far as I'm concerned, super dangerous.

0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:10.840
<v Speaker 3>I've got some stats for your measles that we can

0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:11.320
<v Speaker 3>talk about.

0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, let's because that's one of the ones that the

0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.679
<v Speaker 1>WHL has particularly been warning about. U.

0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the data twenty twenty four is still we're in

0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:17.480
<v Speaker 3>it right.

0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.560
<v Speaker 5>Twenty twenty three, there was a twenty percent increase in

0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:24.400
<v Speaker 5>the cases of measles. Now, remembering vaccines don't prevent infections.

0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.720
<v Speaker 5>Vaccines prevent disease, and I think that's one of the

0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.200
<v Speaker 5>things that perhaps people got a bit confused about.

0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:30.160
<v Speaker 3>During COVID.

0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.200
<v Speaker 5>You get your vaccinations and a few months later you

0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.800
<v Speaker 5>still get COVID infection. But why did that happen? I

0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.880
<v Speaker 5>think perhaps we didn't communicate very well. So let's say, measles,

0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.320
<v Speaker 5>this infection, twenty percent increase could be a statistical fluke,

0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.160
<v Speaker 5>but let's see, well how twenty twenty four turns out.

0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.800
<v Speaker 5>But there's definitely a trend toward increases. And we've heard

0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.280
<v Speaker 5>stories around the UK where there are outbreaks and there

0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.640
<v Speaker 5>have been some cases. But let me just say, before

0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.720
<v Speaker 5>the vaccine came through, two point six million people a

0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:56.360
<v Speaker 5>year were.

0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Dying nineteen sixty three.

0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.400
<v Speaker 5>Imagine how what their your world population was that time

0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.960
<v Speaker 5>now much larger, And so far last year or this year,

0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:06.440
<v Speaker 5>we've only had one hundred and seven thousand deaths only.

0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.320
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you know that's obviously a single death is bad.

0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.960
<v Speaker 5>But so this is something where vaccines really stand out

0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.040
<v Speaker 5>in medical treatments.

0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.520
<v Speaker 1>For people who are hesitant or unsure about vaccines, how

0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.720
<v Speaker 1>much trust can we have on the process that leads

0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.200
<v Speaker 1>to their approval. This was part of the conversation around

0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.400
<v Speaker 1>COVID as well. It appeared that the process moved much

0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:27.559
<v Speaker 1>quicker in that case.

0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, don't forget COVID. We were in a pandemic.

0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.000
<v Speaker 5>Let's say I'm not saying you well, let's say mpox

0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.120
<v Speaker 5>becomes the new small box, right, what are we going

0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.320
<v Speaker 5>to do. We have to get vaccinations at as fast

0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.080
<v Speaker 5>as possible to prevent the ultimate millions of deaths that

0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:41.440
<v Speaker 5>will occur.

0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:44.400
<v Speaker 3>That is a very specific period. So COVID was a

0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:45.600
<v Speaker 3>very special situation.

0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.040
<v Speaker 5>People should not assume that vaccines used to take years

0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:49.599
<v Speaker 5>to get.

0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.440
<v Speaker 3>To market previously and they continue to be the case. Now,

0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.120
<v Speaker 3>that was a special period.

0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.080
<v Speaker 5>Vaccines go through significant rigor because by definition, you're giving

0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.880
<v Speaker 5>something a medical intervation to a hell healthy person, So

0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.799
<v Speaker 5>you need to be absolutely sure as much as humanly

0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:05.159
<v Speaker 5>possible of its safety.

0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:07.920
<v Speaker 1>What can be done then to counteract the sentiment if

0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.440
<v Speaker 1>we can place more emphasis on the rigor of these

0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:15.800
<v Speaker 1>approval systems for vaccines to trust people they're safe. There

0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.359
<v Speaker 1>is there more mastering that we can do to ensure

0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.560
<v Speaker 1>people know and can trust in vaccines.

0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:25.080
<v Speaker 5>I think good high quality scientific messaging that that is acceptable,

0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:30.279
<v Speaker 5>understandable by people, not bamboozling them with strange terminology and data,

0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.960
<v Speaker 5>and really just highlighting the sorts of stats that are

0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.719
<v Speaker 5>just given. Nineteen sixty three, two point six million deaths

0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.560
<v Speaker 5>last year, one hundred and seven thousand from measos. These

0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.440
<v Speaker 5>are facts that people need to know. It's not that

0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.159
<v Speaker 5>MESOS virus has disappeared. The virus has always stay with

0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.920
<v Speaker 5>us in some form or another. So that's the question.

0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.360
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we have got rid of one which was

0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.320
<v Speaker 3>small box. But this is what people need to understand.

0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.320
<v Speaker 5>Let's give them more information and be ready there to

0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.600
<v Speaker 5>coolly converse with folks with other skeptical.

0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.600
<v Speaker 1>How much influence could someone in charge of the Health

0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.080
<v Speaker 1>and Human Services Department in the United States have on

0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.880
<v Speaker 1>vaccine uptake if the messaging is coming from a different

0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:05.120
<v Speaker 1>point of.

0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.040
<v Speaker 5>View, significant significant, So I mean, you know, even if

0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.479
<v Speaker 5>the ADA approves a vaccine, I think the head of

0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.120
<v Speaker 5>the HS can have an influence on it actually being

0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.280
<v Speaker 5>able to launch, actually being able to use. This is

0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:20.680
<v Speaker 5>a very powerful position, and I'm hoping given that Doroth K.

0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.440
<v Speaker 5>Junior has some very good views about food additives, the

0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.479
<v Speaker 5>types of food that are consumed that logic will prevail

0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.480
<v Speaker 5>over mythology if it's the best phrase of can news.

0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.359
<v Speaker 1>Part of your day job is researching pharmaceutical companies. I

0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.040
<v Speaker 1>wonder how they approach this issue of hesitancy around uptake

0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:38.760
<v Speaker 1>of vaccines.

0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:39.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:43.200
<v Speaker 5>Look, farmer companies are there to make a profit. They're

0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.480
<v Speaker 5>there to get their product to market faster and keeping

0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.080
<v Speaker 5>on the market for longest. The agencies, the FDA, the

0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:53.360
<v Speaker 5>European Agency for Medical Regulation and Approvals it so they

0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:55.760
<v Speaker 5>are there to gatekeep I'm not saying farmer companies do

0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.919
<v Speaker 5>bad things, but there is a significant barrier between a

0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.360
<v Speaker 5>company who's incentivized to get his products to market, which

0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:06.960
<v Speaker 5>in a majority of the times they do with good conscience.

0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.440
<v Speaker 5>There is a barrier, there's a significant filter with the public,

0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:11.440
<v Speaker 5>and that's what these.

0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Agencies are for.

0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.360
<v Speaker 5>That is where we hope that the HHS and the

0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.840
<v Speaker 5>new administration that's coming into the US doesn't undermine that ability. Yes,

0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.480
<v Speaker 5>remove red tape, but don't undermine the critical nature of

0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.200
<v Speaker 5>their work, which is safety.

0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to Sam Fazzali, director of research at Bloomberg Intelligence,

0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.480
<v Speaker 1>for more explanations like this one from our team of

0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:35.840
<v Speaker 1>twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts around the world. Search

0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:39.080
<v Speaker 1>for quick take on the Bloomberg website or Bloomberg Business App.

0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm Stephen Carroll. This is here's why. I'll be back

0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.360
<v Speaker 1>next week with more. Thanks for listening.