Speaker 1: Pushkin. Ben Bridwell is a frontman of Band of Horses,
Speaker 1: a group whose sound he describes as y'all alternative, a
Speaker 1: genre that tips its hat to Southern rock's deep myriad
Speaker 1: of musical influences. Next month, the group is celebrating the
Speaker 1: twentieth anniversary of their debut album Everything All the Time,
Speaker 1: with an expanded reissue featuring previously unreleased demos and live recordings.
Speaker 1: The album was recorded in two thousand and five with
Speaker 1: producer of Phil Eck, who's known for producing albums by Built,
Speaker 1: The Spill, Modest Mouse, and The Shins. When Band of
Speaker 1: Horses started working on the project with Phil, Ben had
Speaker 1: only been writing songs for a couple of years. He
Speaker 1: was also new to Seattle, where he relocated from Tucson,
Speaker 1: a city he'd moved to at sixteen after dropping out
Speaker 1: of high school in his native Irmo, South Carolina. On
Speaker 1: today's episode, Lea Rose talks to Ben Bridwell about recording
Speaker 1: Everything All the Time. He opens up about hitting rock
Speaker 1: bottom in South Carolina before moving to Seattle, including sitting
Speaker 1: in his mattress on fire, getting hit by a car,
Speaker 1: and getting arrested, all within the span of one week.
Speaker 1: He also talks about recently breaking the generational curse of
Speaker 1: alcoholism and his family, getting his life together post divorce,
Speaker 1: and explains why the upcoming Band of Horses album may
Speaker 1: sound aggressive despite the fact that it's in such a
Speaker 1: happy place. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations.
Speaker 1: Here's Lea Rose with Ben Bridwell. Head over to YouTube
Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record podcast to see the video
Speaker 1: version of this interview.
Speaker 2: What were you like in high school?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What were you up to in high school?
Speaker 3: Bad? Pretty bad?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I I was all right. I only lasted I think
Speaker 3: my tenth grade year. I think I think I went.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I'm still a sophomore or what
Speaker 3: I am, But yeah, I didn't. I wasn't there very long.
Speaker 3: I was missing too many days, and they're kind of
Speaker 3: like you don't really want to be here, not at all,
Speaker 3: you know, So like, off you go. So I moved
Speaker 3: out west and started the chant, like the whole thing
Speaker 3: that would kind of cascade into Band of Horses and
Speaker 3: all that. By searching for a place where there was
Speaker 3: like a punk rock scene and an engine rock scene
Speaker 3: and you could go. You didn't have to drive three
Speaker 3: hundred miles to go see a show.
Speaker 2: So there was no like punk rock scene in South Carolina.
Speaker 3: There was. There was a lot of straight edge kids
Speaker 3: and a lot of skateboard scene was kind of intertwined,
Speaker 3: and and there was some There was a couple of
Speaker 3: good punk bands out of Columbia, South Carolina. But again
Speaker 3: I had to get like my a mother's note to
Speaker 3: go to the club, you know what I mean. I
Speaker 3: was still like sixteen, you know, and I'm like, I
Speaker 3: want to go for I want to go, you know.
Speaker 3: And we drived like Charlotte or Chapel Hill or Atlanta
Speaker 3: or something Athens to go see yeah, you know, like
Speaker 3: you are a loaf or Sebado's playing there and Pavement
Speaker 3: was coming around, and uh so we or the Ramones,
Speaker 3: you know, we'd drive, We'd have to drive, and I
Speaker 3: was like, man, I want to go someplace where that
Speaker 3: stuff is, like people are like in bands that are
Speaker 3: playing big places, you know, like there's like a real
Speaker 3: scene going on. I wanted to be near that. So
Speaker 3: I went to Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 2: Oh and wich was going on in Tucson at that time.
Speaker 3: A thriving punk and goth and weirdo scene. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: I'd never lived out west and or been out West,
Speaker 3: and it was it was different. You know, kids were
Speaker 3: like doing speed and like they're nails, you know, and
Speaker 3: going to the club and stuff. So it was it
Speaker 3: was cool. It was very different. There's like raves and
Speaker 3: stuff like that. Didn't know nothing about dance music or nothing,
Speaker 3: and uh, and I became kind of entrenched in that
Speaker 3: scene by working, uh, delivering pizzas and working in cafes
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. And yeah, it was pretty freaky, honestly.
Speaker 3: Like these kids, they weren't much older than me, but
Speaker 3: they were out of high school, you know, they were
Speaker 3: like pioneering twenty years old. They were like grown ups
Speaker 3: and they were making a go of it.
Speaker 2: So you were already playing music at that point.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 2: Just kind of like a fan, like want to be
Speaker 2: in the scene and kind of yeah, party type.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I just wanted to be around it and yeah
Speaker 3: and be friends with people that were in bands and
Speaker 3: I didn't and I was. I was really always into
Speaker 3: making like mixtapes. I was always about trying to spread
Speaker 3: other people's music to others. That was always what I
Speaker 3: thought would be more my calling. Maybe working in radio
Speaker 3: or something like that, or with a label even so yeah,
Speaker 3: like an A totally that would have been amazing. Hey
Speaker 3: they're still young, I'm available, you know. I ended up
Speaker 3: starting a label. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's plentny how that
Speaker 3: worked out. But yeah, I didn't end up playing music
Speaker 3: until like my mid twenties or something like that.
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I didn't think that would be something in the
Speaker 3: cards for sure.
Speaker 2: That's so crazy. So how did that happen? Was it
Speaker 2: just kind of like messing around with friends, instruments around
Speaker 2: and you just took a go at it or how
Speaker 2: did you even make that transition?
Speaker 3: Well? I was releasing bands on my label, and mostly
Speaker 3: as a stepping stone kind of label just to get like, hey,
Speaker 3: y'all can have some CDs to sell the show, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, and then maybe like a big
Speaker 3: label be like yoink and you know, we're going to
Speaker 3: superstardom or something. But I ended up joining the main
Speaker 3: group that I was like just entrenched with. I met
Speaker 3: out in Tucson called Chris is Weird and and it
Speaker 3: was a male and female songwriter and they picked up
Speaker 3: some good steam. Once once we all kind of relocate,
Speaker 3: we met in twosons, and we all ended up living
Speaker 3: in Seattle, and they started to really get their act
Speaker 3: together and put out a couple of records with them,
Speaker 3: and then they're one of their drummer had to leave
Speaker 3: to go be in modest mouse for a second as
Speaker 3: like a utility dude, and they needed someone to play
Speaker 3: kind of like slow core drums, and uh, I hate
Speaker 3: that term, but still that's what we kind of wore.
Speaker 3: It was. It was very slow and easy to play drums.
Speaker 3: I was like, because I had a car basically, and
Speaker 3: they trusted my driving skills and they needed to go
Speaker 3: on tour, I think they're like, then will you do it?
Speaker 3: Learned to play some drums, and so I started to
Speaker 3: do that, and a little bit later I picked up
Speaker 3: a bass a little bit for like a song or two,
Speaker 3: you know, And then the band broke up and it
Speaker 3: was like, what are we going to do? I now
Speaker 3: got kind of used to that lifestyle of like staring
Speaker 3: out the window all day and meeting new people at night.
Speaker 3: So I just started falling around with the gear that
Speaker 3: was kind of left in the ashes of that band.
Speaker 3: It was just we still were paying for a rehearsal space.
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm just gonna go down there every
Speaker 3: day that I can and spend as much time as
Speaker 3: I can figuring it out. And that's what I did.
Speaker 3: I just put in the honestly, the hours. I think
Speaker 3: that's what really got me to where I am now
Speaker 3: is just I just I didn't know what I was doing,
Speaker 3: but I just tinkered long enough to find some melody
Speaker 3: and then it it just kind of took its own course.
Speaker 2: That's so cool. Did it feel good to be on stage,
Speaker 2: like the first time you were up there playing drums? Like,
Speaker 2: as someone who was such a fan of music, did
Speaker 2: it feel cool to be in a band?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What was that experience like for you?
Speaker 3: I'm sure the tightrope act of it was was a thrill, right,
Speaker 3: But I've always i mean, more than imposter syndrome like
Speaker 3: this just isn't where I'm supposed to be, you know,
Speaker 3: So that was always I mean, I liked I think
Speaker 3: I'm more like the camaraderie of being in a band
Speaker 3: more than I did like trying to grow my craft
Speaker 3: in a band, you know what I mean. I just
Speaker 3: liked the whole I liked I liked the whole party
Speaker 3: of it all, and the whole experience of traveling and
Speaker 3: that wanderlust that's totally been impossible to really satisfy my
Speaker 3: whole life. So I think that was more the thing.
Speaker 3: So the playing was out of necessity, just to earn
Speaker 3: my keep. I think on the road you still am
Speaker 3: still trying. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was reading an old article in Rolling Stone. It
Speaker 2: was in a section called hot bandy. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: I think it was from two thousand and seven, and
Speaker 2: it said, one of the reasons you left Charleston was
Speaker 2: because you lit your mattress on fire with a handle.
Speaker 3: True?
Speaker 2: What what is that story? What happened?
Speaker 3: Good lord? It was the first year that I'd ever
Speaker 3: heard the term el nino. Okay, I was like, what
Speaker 3: is el Nina? What is y'all? But so one night
Speaker 3: I was well, my roommate was woken up by the
Speaker 3: ceiling dripping on him because this crazy el Nino pushed
Speaker 3: this storm through and uh, and so he woke up
Speaker 3: to find that my room was on fire. He could
Speaker 3: like see it under the door, like the flames or whatever,
Speaker 3: and he came in and kicked me awake. My bed
Speaker 3: had caught fire thanks to because I was making mixtapes
Speaker 3: before I was going to bed and drinking and sitting
Speaker 3: there in bed making mixtape, drinking pass out, and the
Speaker 3: candle ended up catching this, you know, fifteen dollars mattress
Speaker 3: from the seventies, probably on fire, which was the opposite
Speaker 3: of flame retardant. It was only like it just it
Speaker 3: would not go out. So even like I had to
Speaker 3: run with this I got once we realized dumping water
Speaker 3: on it wouldn't work. I had to drag it through
Speaker 3: the house and throw it outside where it was dumping rain. Right,
Speaker 3: throw it outside, it lands on like the steps the
Speaker 3: stairs going up to the house. It lands on this
Speaker 3: and still wouldn't go out in the rainstorm. The flames
Speaker 3: just got even more and more.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so so that and I had gotten thrown
Speaker 3: in jail also for some thing, No, for something different,
Speaker 3: but I had this. I had this like round round
Speaker 3: trip ticket to go visit my friends from Chris is Weird,
Speaker 3: who I met out in Tucson. They were living out
Speaker 3: in Olympia, Washington. Now, I was gonna go visit Northwest
Speaker 3: and then come back. But after all this happened within
Speaker 3: a week, I mean I got hit by a car.
Speaker 3: Also right after that, with all my bandage. My hands
Speaker 3: were all bandaged up, like fingers were touching this far apart,
Speaker 3: and I hit by a car delivering a Brita and
Speaker 3: pizzas to the hospital and all my bandages like blew up.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, oh my god. So I changed I
Speaker 3: changed the ticket to one way a sign yeah, and
Speaker 3: moved out to the Northwest. And that's what also kind
Speaker 3: of started this whole push for U for the music thing.
Speaker 3: You hit rock bottom, I reckon, I reckon, I did yeah,
Speaker 3: and I didn't. My prospects were very, very low, and
Speaker 3: you know, but then I was homeless out there. I
Speaker 3: was living on the streets of Seattle, living outside before
Speaker 3: and and got hired by a rock club, the Crocodile,
Speaker 3: owned by one Peter Buck from r E.
Speaker 2: M uh.
Speaker 3: They hired me with my sleeping bag on my back
Speaker 3: and gave me a chance.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: So I was able to start saving up money and
Speaker 3: getting living inside.
Speaker 2: What do you think, Like, what perspective does that give you,
Speaker 2: having once been sleeping on the street, Like are you
Speaker 2: grateful for that?
Speaker 3: I don't like to go camping? And tell you that
Speaker 3: I don't to go camping, I'm like, no, I've done,
Speaker 3: why would I do?
Speaker 2: I don't need that experience?
Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, it's yeah, I definitely don't like to
Speaker 3: go camping. But you know, I'm just I'm eternally also
Speaker 3: like a bit of a like feeling a bit like
Speaker 3: I don't belong wherever I'm supposed to be, Like I'm
Speaker 3: not supposed to be allowed in this place, you know.
Speaker 3: You know, I always feel like someone would be like,
Speaker 3: who let the freak in?
Speaker 2: You know, well, it seems like you were a go getter.
Speaker 2: I mean if you're sitting there starting a label, like,
Speaker 2: how did you how did you even come up with
Speaker 2: that idea?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Well, I was working at this club in Seattle. God,
Speaker 3: now my dream has come true. I get to work
Speaker 3: at a rock club and like the bands that I
Speaker 3: like are playing, you know, every month you get a calendar.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, oh I'm getting off that night.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like watching sound and watching how bands interact, and
Speaker 3: oh my god. It was a dream come true. But
Speaker 3: I was also not making very much money and I
Speaker 3: was I'm just always ornery too, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 3: I want to do what those guys are doing, Like,
Speaker 3: you know, they're tipping me nothing, you know, my tip
Speaker 3: out and I'm getting like eleven bucks you know, for
Speaker 3: like the busiest shift ever, and I'm like, there's got
Speaker 3: to be a better way. So I just started saving
Speaker 3: every tip. I was almost like in defiance of my
Speaker 3: own my own prospects as as a as a growing person,
Speaker 3: or I'm like, I don't have an education. I don't
Speaker 3: I don't have a whole lot going for me as
Speaker 3: skill wise. I'm going to just I'm how good at
Speaker 3: cooking on the line. I'm just gonna save every dollar
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna hide it for myself, and I'm gonna
Speaker 3: put out my friend's record that those friends I met
Speaker 3: in Tucson. I'm gonna put out their record. They're finally
Speaker 3: gonna have a CD, and everything will just kind of start,
Speaker 3: you know, snowballing. And it it did. So you know,
Speaker 3: it had enough to put out one record, and it
Speaker 3: had enough to repress it, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: it's like Jesus, we got like a thing going on
Speaker 3: here now and growing up with like I mean, even
Speaker 3: in Irmo, South Carolina, I had stenciled Subpop on my backpack,
Speaker 3: you know, in white out, you know, so there was
Speaker 3: already like this like indie rock kind of like the
Speaker 3: branding of indie rock was was working on me, you
Speaker 3: know what I'm saying. Yeah, moving up to Seattle and stuff.
Speaker 3: There's so many record labels. This is like peak indie sleeves,
Speaker 3: whatever era this was. But there were so many great
Speaker 3: labels and and everyone was cool and intermixing with one another.
Speaker 3: And my idea to help other people dream their dreams
Speaker 3: bigger was more than business savvy, because I had always said, like,
Speaker 3: this is like a stepping stone. I'm not trying to
Speaker 3: like put you on a contract. I'm not trying to
Speaker 3: do nothing but get us on k XP, you know,
Speaker 3: and like and put our shops or our CDs and
Speaker 3: all these shops. There were so many great record stores
Speaker 3: in Seattle too, so you could put them on consignment.
Speaker 3: And if you can sell those, they want to get more.
Speaker 3: And all of a sudden, well, now we got something going,
Speaker 3: and I was able to at least harness that dream
Speaker 3: and help some people believe along with me.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Ben Bridwell after the break.
Speaker 2: So, when you started Band of Horses, making the jump
Speaker 2: from being the guy in the back who's supporting everybody,
Speaker 2: and you know, helping other people get a foothold in
Speaker 2: the scene and get you know, the band to grow
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. When all of a sudden it
Speaker 2: becomes you and it's your work and you're out there,
Speaker 2: you're the front person. Was that a big transition for
Speaker 2: you or did that happen seem to happen more naturally.
Speaker 3: No, it's a transition. I still like I feel I
Speaker 3: still feel like I'm like reeling from it in a
Speaker 3: way where it's like I've come now twenty some years later,
Speaker 3: I do feel like, Okay, I know what I'm doing,
Speaker 3: but it took a while to get there where I'm
Speaker 3: like it could all just fall apart in front of
Speaker 3: everyone right here, you know, Like and even times where
Speaker 3: I've like lost my voice or something been sick on
Speaker 3: the road, I'm like, oh, there, it is, there, it
Speaker 3: is now, you can't do it.
Speaker 2: And then oh, like you're waiting for something, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like waiting for like to either be exposed as a
Speaker 3: fraud or like or not meant to be there in
Speaker 3: that role. In some way, I kind of accepted that
Speaker 3: I was gonna feel that way and I just had
Speaker 3: to push through that. But somewhere along the line, I
Speaker 3: have like accepted that this is like my gig, you know,
Speaker 3: and I am good at it and I love and
Speaker 3: I've found a way to grow in that space and
Speaker 3: really and love it and cherish it and miss it
Speaker 3: when I'm not doing it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's yeah. So your two thousand and six
Speaker 2: album Everything All the Time, turns twenty this year. Man,
Speaker 2: So how long were you writing songs before that album
Speaker 2: came out?
Speaker 3: Ooh. I would say it took me a while to
Speaker 3: get those up to snuff, probably about two years. I
Speaker 3: think we started in two thousand and four. Yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: so I didn't know how to play guitar or anything,
Speaker 3: you know, I had like I was like dtuning the
Speaker 3: pegs to you know, my hand is comfortable here, I'll
Speaker 3: just work the strings around that. You know. I still
Speaker 3: got them tattooed on me, just in case I forget.
Speaker 2: What songs are those?
Speaker 3: Uh, No, One's gonna Love You in the Funeral. Okay,
Speaker 3: it's two different tunings, and I swear it makes no sense.
Speaker 3: Every guitar check we've ever had is like it's kind
Speaker 3: of a nightmare trying to line check those guitars. In
Speaker 3: front of like a crowd, like, I don't know how
Speaker 3: to what do you do with this? These strings? They
Speaker 3: make no sense to another guitar player, But they're also
Speaker 3: part of the sauce that I discovered down there writing
Speaker 3: those first songs, not having any idea what to do.
Speaker 3: So it took a while to get them to the
Speaker 3: point of even I think playing live or sharing them
Speaker 3: with any demos with like Phil k or somebody who
Speaker 3: produced the record.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you remember the first time you played on stage,
Speaker 2: like you sang your own songs on stage?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do. I do. There's this place called the
Speaker 3: Sit and Spin in Seattle, and I still had the
Speaker 3: poster actually a little flyer. We were first of four
Speaker 3: on like a Wednesday night or something like that, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I had like a I was such I mean, I
Speaker 3: was such a Freddy cat about it too. I would
Speaker 3: sing with like a vocal processor thing that would just
Speaker 3: like delay it and echo it so deeply that I
Speaker 3: would it didn't really did not. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: wish they made him for the best Man speeches, you know. Oh,
Speaker 3: but any public speaking we need those delays. But but yeah,
Speaker 3: I was I was nervous, but I do remember feeling like,
Speaker 3: of course, like exhilarated, but relieved relieved that uh no
Speaker 3: one through tomatoes or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, did you get any reaction, like real time
Speaker 2: reaction from the crowd, Like did people seem into it?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think there was a sense already that this
Speaker 3: was going to be a thing, and and I knew,
Speaker 3: I mean it was you could see it quickly up there.
Speaker 3: We also had like dueling weekly magazines. You know, there's
Speaker 3: like who's got the better music coverage of the scene.
Speaker 3: You know, it was there's at least two, there's at
Speaker 3: least two and uh, you know someone's writing about it.
Speaker 3: In the first week you played a show, all of
Speaker 3: a sudden you're Seattle famous in the in the Gnarly
Speaker 3: Times or whatever. Uh for uh for starting a new
Speaker 3: band and generating buzz?
Speaker 2: Was your Was the sound of the band different than
Speaker 2: what else was going on locally? Like, did you guys
Speaker 2: stand out as as a new sound?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I guess we kind of did. Now thinking about it,
Speaker 3: because whether I like it or not, my my southernness,
Speaker 3: you know, my accent, my vibe, I mean, I'm very
Speaker 3: like just like I identify as y'all. You know what
Speaker 3: I mean, I am y'all. Y'all. It's just everything. I
Speaker 3: say it constantly, So I do. I do think I
Speaker 3: put some y'all in that alternative you know that y'a
Speaker 3: alternative was? Was?
Speaker 2: Is that a thing? Alternative?
Speaker 3: It was? We talked about it back in the day.
Speaker 3: I don't know if anyone's really uh stuck with it,
Speaker 3: but uh yeah, but it was because you had like
Speaker 3: people like let's say, the Supersuckers from Tucson. They ended
Speaker 3: up coming up to Seattle and living and they had
Speaker 3: like a kind of country punk thing going on. And
Speaker 3: you know, I grew up on the Stones, but like
Speaker 3: and Neil Young and and like the Almond Brothers and stuff.
Speaker 3: So I was I think I was bringing something that
Speaker 3: was that was a little bit different. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it was mostly the fact that I was
Speaker 3: just like it was so echoey and a bit more
Speaker 3: psychedelic before it got kind of cleaned up in the
Speaker 3: process that I was probably leaning more towards Jan's addiction
Speaker 3: than maybe even say like the My Morning Jacket stuff
Speaker 3: or something. I think a lot of that stuff snuck
Speaker 3: in there and built a spill and flaming lips I
Speaker 3: was listening to a lot of that stuff, so I
Speaker 3: was singing a bit more of a higher register where
Speaker 3: a lot of the Seattle bands there was still a
Speaker 3: lot of like math rock going on, a lot of
Speaker 3: post punk vibes, a lot of still like K Records
Speaker 3: pop stuff still was like, uh was popping off, and
Speaker 3: then you had like this new kind of macho rock
Speaker 3: scene that subpop was having a go a little era with.
Speaker 3: There's like a lot of like everyone's wearing black and
Speaker 3: getting sleeve tattoos today and they're all dancing, you know.
Speaker 3: It was We definitely were a different kind of vibe
Speaker 3: where it was swinging wild in all directions, which is nice.
Speaker 3: But yeah, for some I think we were melodic enough
Speaker 3: to uh to catch people's eye.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the build up to releasing the first album? Like,
Speaker 2: were you a band that played out all the time?
Speaker 2: Did you tour? Did you play outside of Seattle? Was
Speaker 2: your set covers? Was it original songs?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Tell me about the lead up to putting out the
Speaker 2: first album?
Speaker 3: Cool? Yeah, Well I was lucky that well I had
Speaker 3: become friends with Sam Beam from Iron and Wine. He's
Speaker 3: also from the same town that I'm from. In the
Speaker 3: middle of South Carolina and he's a my brother age.
Speaker 3: They were buddies, and I had met him one time
Speaker 3: coming home for like a Christmas and I heard his
Speaker 3: songs in his truck and I was like, what though,
Speaker 3: this is crazy, Like, dude, you've got like something going here.
Speaker 3: And I was lucky enough to dub some of those
Speaker 3: songs down to another cassette tape and bring them with
Speaker 3: me up to Seattle and and kind of introduce his
Speaker 3: music to the subpop folks. And and my friend Howard
Speaker 3: in Chicago, who worked with Thrill Jockey and Overcoat Records,
Speaker 3: I was like, y'all gotta check out Sam Beamstaf. So
Speaker 3: he ends up getting signed and kind of popping off
Speaker 3: right around that a little bit, A little bit that day,
Speaker 3: for sure, that day for sure. Oh man, I know. Actually,
Speaker 3: you get one of those and you think all those
Speaker 3: labels are going to listen to you the next time, right, No, No,
Speaker 3: this was one. This is once in a lifetime here.
Speaker 3: So so luckily Sam starts popping off right around the
Speaker 3: time that horses was starting, and he took us out
Speaker 3: on tour of the United States. Yeah, we were like
Speaker 3: went around mostly in the South, open up for Iron
Speaker 3: and Wine, which was a huge learning experience for us.
Speaker 3: I mean for me as a as a singing person,
Speaker 3: but also for just like the level of operation compared
Speaker 3: to even the band that I was in before. It
Speaker 3: was just like, Okay, this is a this is how
Speaker 3: you tour, you know, and uh, it's funny. I ended
Speaker 3: up getting in some way helping Sam get sign the subpop.
Speaker 3: We end up open up for him two nights in Seattle,
Speaker 3: and in turn, he gets me kind of signed a
Speaker 3: subpop from all the way across the country. You know,
Speaker 3: these two dudes in Irmo, South Carolina somehow end up
Speaker 3: connected to Seattle via each other. Yeah, yeah, so that
Speaker 3: was amazing he and yeah, that that process of of
Speaker 3: seeing how Sam crafts his songs and then translates them
Speaker 3: onto the stage and becomes also from maybe a bedroom
Speaker 3: type of recording vibe all of a sudden in front
Speaker 3: of you know, hundreds and hundreds of people. I kind
Speaker 3: of followed his lead. He was very much like a
Speaker 3: mentor in that way.
Speaker 2: Nice. So what specifically did you pick up from him?
Speaker 2: Like as far as performing.
Speaker 3: Well, I still pick up from him his freedom. He
Speaker 3: expresses himself so freely on stage and in front of
Speaker 3: people with whether it's you know, playing different different ways
Speaker 3: of playing songs that he's written a long time ago,
Speaker 3: and challenging the audience in a way not and just
Speaker 3: being unafraid to still make artful expression out of something
Speaker 3: that doesn't have to be it doesn't you know, you
Speaker 3: could serve it on a clean platter, you know. And
Speaker 3: I like that he's messy with it and he's brave.
Speaker 3: I'm not as brave. I'm a bit more loyal to
Speaker 3: the recorded versions, but but he he's showed me so much.
Speaker 3: I mean, how long you got It might be a
Speaker 3: whole different other podcast, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still
Speaker 3: learning so much from Sam. And we just got off
Speaker 3: a tour last year together again, which is crazy. That's now,
Speaker 3: you know, twenty five years ago that we started touring together.
Speaker 3: I'm still learning things and and I hope, I hope
Speaker 3: I have a bit more steady footing to maybe where
Speaker 3: he maybe he learns a couple of things from me
Speaker 3: too along the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. I was listening to the album that
Speaker 2: you put out the live at the Ryman, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I was thinking about the way that you play the
Speaker 2: songs live. And it's funny that you said that about Sam,
Speaker 2: how he has the courage to kind of like mix
Speaker 2: stuff up or try new, try a new approach to
Speaker 2: a song. Do you find that you play the songs
Speaker 2: that maybe are like the bigger, like hit songs, more straight,
Speaker 2: and then you feel more freedom to kind of bug
Speaker 2: out on the other ones that maybe are the deeper cuts.
Speaker 3: Well. An easy way of explaining this would be, I
Speaker 3: don't I'm still not as like musician I'm still not
Speaker 3: that much of a musician about it. Like I'm like,
Speaker 3: I just want to, like I want the song to
Speaker 3: get off, like I want it to just go. I
Speaker 3: want the impact to be how people are feeling about
Speaker 3: finally finally getting to experience it. I'm trying to hit
Speaker 3: them and their feels as hard as I can. And
Speaker 3: for me, that's like not messing up, you know, because
Speaker 3: I think I might come on glued completely. It gets
Speaker 3: a little bit squirrely, like even trying to jam. We've
Speaker 3: been on like the show the Jules Holland Show out
Speaker 3: of England, and even on like these shows where you
Speaker 3: have to like we're gonna start the show and all
Speaker 3: the bands are like jamming in the round. We had
Speaker 3: to do it, like they had to start over twice,
Speaker 3: just because I don't know how to jam bro I
Speaker 3: don't know where to put my fingers on threat board
Speaker 3: because these tunings are so weird it's crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like that, all right. So I want to ask
Speaker 2: you specifically a little bit about this album, Like now,
Speaker 2: twenty years later, what's the personality of this album for you? Like,
Speaker 2: how do you describe this album?
Speaker 3: Wow? Well, I had to like go back and listen
Speaker 3: to it, and I haven't. I never listened to our records.
Speaker 3: Once it's done, I'm like good, you know, And it
Speaker 3: was it was out of here, yeah, And it was
Speaker 3: nerve wracking too for to have like this kind of
Speaker 3: immediate success where all of a sudden, you know, we'd
Speaker 3: walk into a bar and it was like playing on
Speaker 3: the bar speakers, you know, and you're like, I gotta
Speaker 3: get out of here. I can't. This is weird, you know.
Speaker 3: So I've kind of I've hidden from it and all
Speaker 3: of it's amateurism, I don't know. Just like the way
Speaker 3: I sang even, I was like, oh my god, this
Speaker 3: is so weird. It's so weird. It's like dysmorphia or
Speaker 3: something like that. I'm like, that's so weird. I can't
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And how's it different than you sing?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Would you say, oh, man.
Speaker 3: Well, it sounds very that voice sounds very like closed
Speaker 3: and restrained and and just not there's not enough breath
Speaker 3: in there, and it's just it freaks me out. But
Speaker 3: also I would still criticize the voice I have now,
Speaker 3: I'm sure, but yeah, I had to kind of give
Speaker 3: in to the overall vibe and just listen to what
Speaker 3: everyone else was doing, the other musicians. Listening to them
Speaker 3: was more like it kind of allowed me to accept
Speaker 3: it a bit easier and get the whole vibe that
Speaker 3: Phil the producer was making. And just the soundscapes of
Speaker 3: everything is pretty. It was pretty revealing to me there
Speaker 3: to day, I'm like, this is actually kind of this
Speaker 3: kind of its kind of hits all right, got you.
Speaker 3: I'm grateful for the for all the rough stuff back then. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and im and I'm really proud of the other musicians
Speaker 3: that we all punched above our weight to a great
Speaker 3: degree to to also meet Phil's expectations, which was this
Speaker 3: is a this is a moment in time that deserves
Speaker 3: to be captured and preserved and uh, and you must
Speaker 3: give it every bit of of your effort, you know,
Speaker 3: to to really make it something bigger than yourself. And
Speaker 3: so I see it as yeah, an an awkward, scrappy,
Speaker 3: scrappy new dad that's uh, it's gonna take some licks
Speaker 3: before he figures out, you know, remembers to bring diapers
Speaker 3: with him when he goes to the store just in
Speaker 3: case anything goes down. Yep, I listened to it last night.
Speaker 2: I had Oh you listened to it last night.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I listened to the first side of it two
Speaker 3: days ago, and I was like, oh man, it's like
Speaker 3: I don't want, I don't want to listen to the
Speaker 3: other but I did it. I was like, I got to.
Speaker 3: I have to do my research to make sure I
Speaker 3: know what I'm talking about. So yeah, I'm pretty familiar
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry you had that experience.
Speaker 3: That sounds cute. This is not good for promo, but yeah, no,
Speaker 3: it's just it's just hard to look at old pictures
Speaker 3: of yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my gosh, yes, yes, Okay, So are there
Speaker 2: any memorable sessions you remember, like any of the songs
Speaker 2: that you know, maybe something memorable happened in the studio
Speaker 2: or all of a sudden the song started to work,
Speaker 2: it makes sense, or maybe a funny story around recording
Speaker 2: one of the songs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was I'm sure for fulfill the producer.
Speaker 3: I'm sure it was just a you know, NonStop follies
Speaker 3: with us. But you know, I didn't know what to
Speaker 3: do with my hands while singing. I've only been singing
Speaker 3: at to this point with the guitar in my hands.
Speaker 3: So I said, you're in a studio. I didn't know
Speaker 3: where to put my hands without making noise, like you know,
Speaker 3: putting in my pockets and you got keys in your pockets.
Speaker 3: Stop doing that, you know. So I took to the
Speaker 3: only thing that was available was this like serrated bread
Speaker 3: knife that I would like just holding my hands kind
Speaker 3: of waving around, just to make sure I didn't make
Speaker 3: any noise while singing. Stuff like that, I mean serious
Speaker 3: greenhorn stuff where you just don't have any prior knowledge
Speaker 3: of what to do much less I tell you what,
Speaker 3: like trying to play guitar. It's one thing to like
Speaker 3: write the songs and find the melody and then get
Speaker 3: over yourself to write lyrics that you're not afraid to display.
Speaker 3: But now it's like you gotta be able to play
Speaker 3: those guitars like adequately for Phil who has a very
Speaker 3: high standard set. So I was like, I mean, I've
Speaker 3: never played guitar like that before, and where you're playing
Speaker 3: something over and over trying to make someone feel good
Speaker 3: about it, even though you know they're just like accepting
Speaker 3: it's as good as it's going to get. You know.
Speaker 3: That kind of that kind of pressure was like was
Speaker 3: kind of scary, you know, or or seeing you know,
Speaker 3: friends deal with like trying to keep a steady tempo
Speaker 3: or to do these things that were he was really
Speaker 3: lifting us up into a into a weight class that
Speaker 3: we weren't ready to be in. So it was it
Speaker 3: was terrifying and and also just being a bit clueless
Speaker 3: that it would that it would catch on or anything
Speaker 3: I was trying. I tried to not finish what would
Speaker 3: become like our flagship or bell Cow song the funeral.
Speaker 3: I was like, Oh, we'll just save it for the
Speaker 3: next one. It's too hard to pull off. We'll just
Speaker 3: put this other song on there instead. And I think
Speaker 3: Phil and the label were like, bro, finish that song
Speaker 3: that is like the song you know, the I was
Speaker 3: just clueless, you know, I didn't even want and when
Speaker 3: we were done, I didn't even choose that one to
Speaker 3: be a single. I'm like, I've always been clueless about
Speaker 3: like what are gonna like about it? I guess. So
Speaker 3: I'm just like, I guess it's if I remember anything.
Speaker 3: Is that I didn't know nothing, you know, and I
Speaker 3: still kind of don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what were you writing the funeral about? Do you
Speaker 2: remember what was happening in your life at that time,
Speaker 2: like what you were even thinking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a mixture of living out
Speaker 3: west and having to go home for like Christmas to
Speaker 3: like see my family and stuff like that, and like
Speaker 3: having to like deal with I don't know, like uh,
Speaker 3: just awkward conversations and just social anxiety. I think social
Speaker 3: anxiety was a big part of it, where I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is all just this is all brutal. I don't
Speaker 3: want to have to like talk in front of people
Speaker 3: and like answer questions about myself. And then the growing
Speaker 3: anxiety I think of just growing older and the fear
Speaker 3: of the fear of losing like my parents and and
Speaker 3: that like I'm just yeah, death, losing people like to death,
Speaker 3: or or even sometimes hearing you know, other people's stories,
Speaker 3: you know, some when people lose unrequired love or whatever.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, uh, it just it really messes
Speaker 3: me up, I guess, and yeah, still does to this day.
Speaker 3: I'm still terrified of of dealing with when people got
Speaker 3: to go move on. So uh yeah, I think there was.
Speaker 3: It was a mixture of those things, my own crippling
Speaker 3: social anxiety and then the fear of mortality.
Speaker 2: Had you lost anyone who was close to you at that.
Speaker 3: Point friends, Yeah, but no real close family members to
Speaker 3: that point. Yeaheah, nothing, It.
Speaker 2: Was just more of a fear of it rather than
Speaker 2: an experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which is which is maybe just a human
Speaker 3: condition thing that I just happened to have elevated or something.
Speaker 3: And sometimes yeah, it's other people's stories make me cry
Speaker 3: like that, just people like people go through that pain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, do you remember what it was about that song?
Speaker 2: Like at what point were you were you stuck? Like
Speaker 2: what made it hard for you to finish the guitar?
Speaker 3: The guitar? I remember, I was just getting kind of
Speaker 3: exhausted by Phil's expectations of where it needed to get to,
Speaker 3: you know, and I physically didn't feel like I could
Speaker 3: pull it off, so I just had to. I think
Speaker 3: I probably gave up at least one time. I was like,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I can do it. It's just if
Speaker 3: it's not good enough for you, we'll just put it
Speaker 3: on the next album. I'll get better Phil, you know.
Speaker 3: But no, I think it was just a growing moment
Speaker 3: where I had to get up and play big boy ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well that's good that you didn't have
Speaker 2: someone else step in and just do the guitar part.
Speaker 2: You could have.
Speaker 3: Just sure I still had help. Don't worry. I'm sure.
Speaker 3: I okay, I'm sure I still had the village lifting
Speaker 3: me up. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: Who else had Phil work? What other bands had Phil
Speaker 2: worked with at the time, Like were you thinking of
Speaker 2: those people? And be like damn when he worked with
Speaker 2: the Black Crows, like they were probably killing it? Or
Speaker 2: whoever he worked with?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, he was working with a lot of bands
Speaker 3: that I admired, like and do you still like Built
Speaker 3: the Spill and Modest Mouse and the Shins and God
Speaker 3: Countless bands, Lesavi FIV was a band that I really love.
Speaker 3: And the guitars and stuff his his his vivid sound
Speaker 3: textures and things were or what drew me to him
Speaker 3: wanting to work with him. But then it's like immediately
Speaker 3: like Buyer's remorse were like, I'm gonna have to I'm
Speaker 3: really going to have to get my level up to
Speaker 3: what he needs to be able to pull that off.
Speaker 2: You know, that's a nice challenge though.
Speaker 3: It's helped. I mean it it helped, you know, move
Speaker 3: us up another step into being to being whatever we
Speaker 3: are now, whatever that is.
Speaker 1: Well, nas break and we're back with Ben Bridwell.
Speaker 2: So you said that the album kind of started to
Speaker 2: pick up. How did you know, Like, how did you
Speaker 2: know that it was? You said you would hear it
Speaker 2: when you walked into bars. Was it being played on
Speaker 2: the radio? Like how did you get a sense that?
Speaker 2: It was? Kind of like catching on your time back then?
Speaker 3: For sure? And we were so lucky to have to
Speaker 3: be in Seattle where k XB was lifting up so many,
Speaker 3: so many local bands. I mean, they've really helped grow
Speaker 3: a scene. And I knew it from work and the
Speaker 3: label side of it and getting some of my bands
Speaker 3: over to k XP, you know. So it was amazing
Speaker 3: to be on that receiving end of their affection at
Speaker 3: the time, and it starts to pick up I think
Speaker 3: the real like because very early in the process, we
Speaker 3: went to Europe to play a couple of shows, and
Speaker 3: we played in Norway at this festival, and people, these
Speaker 3: Norwegian people were singing back to us. Whether it was
Speaker 3: correct or not, it was just like mind blowing. These
Speaker 3: people even heard of us and decided to come watch
Speaker 3: and listen. But the fact that they knew the words
Speaker 3: to our songs is like, this is something that I mean,
Speaker 3: that was like huge expectation blown right there. You know,
Speaker 3: we actually might we actually might be here for a bit.
Speaker 2: That's cool. What was your first time in Europe?
Speaker 3: Like, oh, Greenhorns? Just you know, we already you know,
Speaker 3: we I've I had no problem living that that cliche
Speaker 3: of like let's let's go get it, you know, let's
Speaker 3: drink all the drinks and and be silly, you know,
Speaker 3: and be and kind of ride the wave of it
Speaker 3: because it's probably fleeting, you know, it's it's more than
Speaker 3: likely fleeting. So we enjoyed ourselves and shortly thereafter real
Speaker 3: life luckily intervened and and I had my first child,
Speaker 3: like along before the second record came out, So we
Speaker 3: didn't get all that. It wasn't all that long of
Speaker 3: getting to live like this, you know, kind of imaginary
Speaker 3: rock star thing. It was real life came to help
Speaker 3: ground me pretty soon.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that'll do. The kid'll do that. Did you
Speaker 2: ever get to like tear up a hotel room or
Speaker 2: anything like that, like throw TV's out the.
Speaker 3: Window, y'all? I am way too respectful to do that.
Speaker 3: I would Oh my god, my parents, they would, they
Speaker 3: would be so disappointed in me. There's no way, no,
Speaker 3: there's no way. I'm not trashing any I clean up
Speaker 3: for the housekeeping, you know, I do. I still to
Speaker 3: this day, will clean up for housekeeping.
Speaker 2: That's so nice? Was it so once you once you
Speaker 2: were experiencing that, like fame and riding high and partying
Speaker 2: and all that, Like, was that different than you expected
Speaker 2: it to be? Or was it exactly what you hoped
Speaker 2: it was?
Speaker 3: All the expectations were being exceeded, There's no doubt. So
Speaker 3: it's hard to be prepared for what you what your
Speaker 3: personality might be like in those situations. But I already knew.
Speaker 3: I already knew that was kind of not much of
Speaker 3: a joiner for one. I'm not like a Jam. I
Speaker 3: don't want to get together in Jam like I'm not
Speaker 3: and I'm also not like trying to rung up on
Speaker 3: the ladder, and I'm a bit nervous with meeting here
Speaker 3: or or even like like industry people and stuff like.
Speaker 3: I'm not much of a joiner. So I shouldn't have
Speaker 3: I shouldn't be surprised by how lonely the job would be.
Speaker 3: I shouldn't. I shouldn't be surprised by it because I'm
Speaker 3: already a bit of an isolated kind of personality anyways.
Speaker 3: But maybe the fact that I didn't expect it to
Speaker 3: kind of become the safe place. And you know, when
Speaker 3: your ego is people can you know, pump up your
Speaker 3: ego at every every turn. I'm surprised that I was
Speaker 3: able to want to avoid it, you know, like I
Speaker 3: don't want that. I don't want to see us on
Speaker 3: the late night TV thing. I'm not gonna watch it.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna watch the performance. I'm not gonna listen
Speaker 3: to this. So I'm I'm glad that I've been able
Speaker 3: to avoid a lot of that ego pump and stuff.
Speaker 3: But I'm sure it finds its way in other ways.
Speaker 2: You know how is a transition for you becoming a dad,
Speaker 2: like transitioning from Okay, we got we have the albums out,
Speaker 2: it's doing well, we're touring internationally, and then you come
Speaker 2: home and have such a different life, the domestic life.
Speaker 2: How is that for you?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm still evolving and learning. You know, I'm forty seven,
Speaker 3: I have four children. They're all daughters in between the
Speaker 3: ages of ten and seventeen. So we're like, we're in
Speaker 3: a wild spot right now. But it's amazing and I'm
Speaker 3: so I just I love this. I love this time
Speaker 3: that we have right now in their development and their
Speaker 3: brain growth and our bonding time is just so amazing.
Speaker 3: And it's only got room to still grow bigger. And
Speaker 3: I'm so enthused by them. They are my masterpiece. And
Speaker 3: this music thing is kind of a byproduct, honestly. Oh
Speaker 3: and so it's it's it's there's been a learning curve too,
Speaker 3: of just I think with anybody, you're you're learning to
Speaker 3: be less selfish and more patient and things like that.
Speaker 3: So I'm still I'm still growing in that. But I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm in a really great spot where I
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm just I feel like the sky is
Speaker 3: the limit for us and our love for one another. So, uh,
Speaker 3: it's only getting better, and it's it's only getting bigger.
Speaker 3: And I feel like I'm I have more patients to
Speaker 3: ride with them through all this you know, development they're
Speaker 3: going through and whatever they need from me. So I'm
Speaker 3: I'm here for and more.
Speaker 2: How's the co parenting situation going? How's the post divorce?
Speaker 2: I mean, if you don't want to answer that, that's
Speaker 2: totally fine. We don't even know.
Speaker 3: I'm an open book with respect.
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, it's it's you know, it's it's it's strange
Speaker 4: because you have to let go of how someone else
Speaker 4: is parenting your children and you have to be able
Speaker 4: to allow them to also live their life and how
Speaker 4: they see things, you know.
Speaker 3: So that's that's really the the balance you're trying to seek.
Speaker 3: And and I'm lucky to co parent with with the
Speaker 3: woman that you know, we have at least like the
Speaker 3: same core values and and that helps that that helps
Speaker 3: answer a lot of questions. You know. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 3: you know, not being married to some anymore. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I've really been able to discover who I truly am
Speaker 3: when I'm by myself and and what I expect in
Speaker 3: any sort of partnership really, And god, I'm just so happy.
Speaker 3: I'm just like so happy, and I'm good. I'm just
Speaker 3: I'm just in such a good, happy place with being
Speaker 3: in my own piece, you know, and just and and
Speaker 3: creating a beautiful piece with my children that uh, no
Speaker 3: one's allowed to mess it up, including me, you know.
Speaker 2: Good good. I feel like the most recent interviews I
Speaker 2: saw with you, you weren't. It didn't seem like you were.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was more fresh and so I think maybe
Speaker 2: you weren't as in such a settled place. So that's
Speaker 2: good to hear.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, well I'll tell you what. For me,
Speaker 3: and this job helped a lot to fuel even the
Speaker 3: genetic curse of alcoholism. Uh and uh, you know, riding
Speaker 3: with that through this crazy job was an interesting, interesting,
Speaker 3: interesting road to fallow. But uh, I finally got that
Speaker 3: nipped in the bud a couple of years ago, and
Speaker 3: that has just been amazing. From my own piece, and
Speaker 3: and just being able to deal with the world in general. Honestly,
Speaker 3: it's it's night and day. How easier things are. I
Speaker 3: quit you're at home.
Speaker 2: Just like cold turkey.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I just kind of weaned myself off and
Speaker 3: set a goal and never looked back.
Speaker 2: Good for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's awesome. I'm really I'm having a great time
Speaker 3: and everything's easier. Honestly, Yeah, everything's just easier. I Mean
Speaker 3: there's times where I'm like, God, it'd be easier at
Speaker 3: the social function to get you know, to get some
Speaker 3: drinks up in here or do with this anxiety. But
Speaker 3: I found with uh, it was it was kind of
Speaker 3: fueling more anxiety for me trying trying to kind of
Speaker 3: kill that imposter syndrome and stuff like that. That just
Speaker 3: the natural it's there backstage. You kind of get used
Speaker 3: to trying to bury those feelings of you know, awkwardness
Speaker 3: on the road and missing people at home, all those
Speaker 3: feelings you're trying to bury them with that. But it
Speaker 3: was only creating more anxiety for me to where I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, what if we eliminated that one and see,
Speaker 3: let's try to see if that helps in Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it just opened my world to a whole lot more,
Speaker 3: a whole just big, brighter space to feel at peace
Speaker 3: and to navigate, to navigate any kind of troubles.
Speaker 2: How has it been with songwriting, Like has that changed
Speaker 2: your processes at all writing new songs, like not being
Speaker 2: able to drink or I imagine drinking was maybe somehow
Speaker 2: part of that process. Did you have any fear that, like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe I can't write as well now?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it still kind of persists in that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I used to go escape to write and drink,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. So it's like now that
Speaker 3: you're only escaping to go I need to go escape
Speaker 3: to the writing aspect, It's like, oh, there was this
Speaker 3: whole other thing. I was a destination I was reaching too,
Speaker 3: which was to finally be able to like to booze,
Speaker 3: and so to get the motivation is different, right, Like
Speaker 3: because it used to be like, Okay, I'm escaping like
Speaker 3: this marriage for a second to go right you know.
Speaker 3: Now it's like, damn, I'm so easy with everything. In
Speaker 3: a way, it's like, Okay, I have to like force
Speaker 3: myself to go deal with this stuff, you know, to
Speaker 3: like or to like tap into things, you know, themes
Speaker 3: that are uncomfortable to kind of to tread in. It's
Speaker 3: it's it's harder to get the motivation to go into
Speaker 3: the lab, you know what I mean. But I've found
Speaker 3: that the clarity with which the job is performed is
Speaker 3: a bit more keen, you know, I feel like, uh
Speaker 3: and I feel totally different in the studio now, like
Speaker 3: and singing on a mic, and and because I would
Speaker 3: also even in the studio just like drinking to you know,
Speaker 3: kill the kill the feelings, yeah, and kill the scaries.
Speaker 3: But uh now I'm I feel like I sing better,
Speaker 3: I perform better. Everything I do is just easier. So
Speaker 3: like even with the new record, yet it's been hard
Speaker 3: to find the damn the gut to go and really spill.
Speaker 3: I do feel like the product isn't isn't diluted in
Speaker 3: any way. The despair is the despair is still there,
Speaker 3: you know, and the imagination is still there. I haven't
Speaker 3: lost a minute of that. If anything, I feel like
Speaker 3: my my mental capacity is just is a bit more focused.
Speaker 3: It's so cool, I.
Speaker 2: Hope, so amazing. Like still at this age, we're the
Speaker 2: same age, but still at this age you can kind
Speaker 2: of repair yourself.
Speaker 3: Like that, really can, you really can. And it's never
Speaker 3: too late. It's never too late to reverse the curse
Speaker 3: whatever it may be. You know, I'm so just as
Speaker 3: much as like you know, falling into this this band
Speaker 3: thing and writing the songs. It's it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: it's like it feels like a manifestation, you know, And
Speaker 3: it kind of it happened, you know, out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: I had no business being getting signed to subpoth and
Speaker 3: going to Europe and stuff. I had no business doing that.
Speaker 3: But here we are. I had no business also bucking
Speaker 3: the trend of my ancestors and getting that thing turned
Speaker 3: in the other direction. So yeah, it's anyone can do it.
Speaker 3: You just gotta just kind of gotta buck up and
Speaker 3: you know, hit it head on.
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of guts, and it takes a
Speaker 2: lot of perseverance too, because it's not easy.
Speaker 3: Oh but it's easy once you start feeling good, once
Speaker 3: you start.
Speaker 2: Feeling till you start feeling better.
Speaker 3: I would say I started to really notice that my
Speaker 3: mood was so much lighter. I wouldn't say, like a
Speaker 3: month and a half, two months, and I'm like, I
Speaker 3: just felt a weight less weight on me, you know,
Speaker 3: and my my good moods were lasting longer. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: I was just yeah, just oh my god. Everything immediately
Speaker 3: started to feel like it was easier to deal with
Speaker 3: on a phone call, face to face and da Dennis office,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, or going to the school
Speaker 3: functions and stuff. I'm not hiding a secret.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, yeah that was brutal.
Speaker 3: It's like you kind of always feel like you are
Speaker 3: kind of like living this like dark other life kind
Speaker 3: of thing that these the the rest of society. They
Speaker 3: know that you're different because of your job in a way, right,
Speaker 3: But when you're mixing and mingling with all these kids,
Speaker 3: parents and teachers and stuff like that, it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: you have no idea the darkness I'm caring around. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: not anymore.
Speaker 2: I bet a lot of people have stuff though, you
Speaker 2: know for sure it's a lot of people have stuff.
Speaker 2: So tell me about the new album. What point in
Speaker 2: the process are you at right now?
Speaker 3: Supposed to be sending it to mixing was supposed to
Speaker 3: about a couple of weeks ago. I'm I'm really trying
Speaker 3: to strike a balance of being at home and working too.
Speaker 3: But there's still some growing pains going on here where
Speaker 3: I'm like it's hard to have my foot and and
Speaker 3: and that creative space like that where because I really
Speaker 3: dig in and I'm I'm all in when i'm and
Speaker 3: I'm usually out of town when I do it when
Speaker 3: it's time to like finish a project, especially to get
Speaker 3: over that finish line. But right now I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not ready to send it all in yet.
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm still himming in the hauling on a
Speaker 3: couple of lyrical things. And I'm just like, come on,
Speaker 3: You're better than this, bro, You're better than this. Don't
Speaker 3: be don't be so basic. I just I kick my
Speaker 3: own butt throughout the entire process. I'm sure I've done
Speaker 3: it for every other project. It's just that I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm finding a new excuse. I'm like, well, if if
Speaker 3: I was in a dang hotel room at night, you know,
Speaker 3: and just like only thinking of that instead of like, oh, dang,
Speaker 3: I gotta get kid to an orthodontist appointment tomorrow. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm looking for excuses of why I'm not finishing it.
Speaker 3: But but the answer would be it's just not good
Speaker 3: enough yet.
Speaker 2: So and you know that, like, yeah, do you know
Speaker 2: that from just from within yourself or is it stuff
Speaker 2: you're playing for other people in their reaction, or do
Speaker 2: you just know like to me, it's not up to
Speaker 2: snuff to.
Speaker 3: Me, the stories aren't adding up completely. Okay, Like I'm
Speaker 3: trying to describe something and I'm not doing as good
Speaker 3: a job as I could if I could just lock
Speaker 3: in once I've tapped into it and really describe it correctly.
Speaker 3: Just some things are just clumsy. Somethings are just clumsy,
Speaker 3: and that's not that's not good enough. If anything Phil
Speaker 3: taught me also from that first record too, is like
Speaker 3: this project deserves your full attention and all of your
Speaker 3: ability to get it to that next that that higher
Speaker 3: place where it can live forever. So he I think
Speaker 3: he instilled that in me. Uh, and I carry it.
Speaker 3: I carry it with you. I'm like, which is tough
Speaker 3: because you're always gonna you could you could nitpick you know,
Speaker 3: everything in your life, but no, at some point you
Speaker 3: do have to let the thing go. And I will
Speaker 3: because we got to start working this this reissue next month,
Speaker 3: so I'll I'll finish it in the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: I reckon, I will. Actually I'm not. I don't reckon.
Speaker 3: I know I'm going to.
Speaker 2: You're going to. Yeah, is there anything you can tell
Speaker 2: us about it? The sound, any of the songs, like
Speaker 2: anything that I'm sure a lot of people want to
Speaker 2: know every little thing about it. What do you what
Speaker 2: do you want to say about it?
Speaker 3: Well, the record is a bit more organic in that
Speaker 3: it's like there's not a lot of keyboards, if any
Speaker 3: so far. I don't think there's not a lot of
Speaker 3: like extra touches. It's it's a bit more. The songs
Speaker 3: are a bit aggressive for one, and and yeah, and
Speaker 3: that's always been kind of a thing, even if they
Speaker 3: didn't make the cut. Sometimes I've always been into like
Speaker 3: always wanting to be in a punk band anyways, and
Speaker 3: always loving the rough and tumble nature of you know, uh,
Speaker 3: punk rock and hindie rock and just sloppy art rock
Speaker 3: and whatever. So this is a bit abrasive, i think
Speaker 3: in a way, which is strange to not be mellowing
Speaker 3: with age. But but and it's yeah, I'm still pissed off,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm still I've always been ornery and cantankerous
Speaker 3: and just mad, you know, but I'm so happy. I'm
Speaker 3: so happy. It's weird too, because I'm like, I'm in
Speaker 3: such a good place, and I'm like, oh.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, that's a funny thing that like you're not
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you made the switch, like the
Speaker 2: new album's all happy songs. I figured it out.
Speaker 3: It is not, which is so weird because I think
Speaker 3: a lot of people meet me like you seem like
Speaker 3: such a happy dude, like why are your songs so sad?
Speaker 3: And I'm and this is weird because a lot of
Speaker 3: these songs I'm trying to get over the finish line
Speaker 3: are written from the perspective of, you know, from a
Speaker 3: couple of years now of accumulated experiences since the last one,
Speaker 3: And I'm like, God, this guy was buzzkill, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean. I'm like, how do I relate to
Speaker 3: this guy too? But I'm always gonna be a bit
Speaker 3: uh probably always a bitsive, pisson vinegar to some degree.
Speaker 3: But I'm really having a great time. Please don't be alarmed.
Speaker 3: I'm I don't need a wellness check. I'm doing great. Promise.
Speaker 2: Have you ever just like messed around and made music
Speaker 2: that sounds completely different than Band of Horses?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, I mess around with lots of weird stuff
Speaker 3: and I get I get obsessed on samples and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, and I will I'll make I'll make like
Speaker 3: cutting up audio and stuff like that from from you know,
Speaker 3: like TV stuff or from other records and stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'll get really obsessive with that kind of stuff. Sometimes
Speaker 3: I'll get into like making beats. Sometimes I'll get into
Speaker 3: making instrumental kind of ambient thing. Sometimes too, I'm really
Speaker 3: into toys because I've never really again never been much
Speaker 3: of a real musician, and that I'm gonna learn my craft.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm always looking at new toys, new things,
Speaker 3: new sources of inspiration all over the place. You know,
Speaker 3: whether it's like we have songs where it's like a
Speaker 3: song will be born out of a window being cracked
Speaker 3: in my hotel room and it's paying a playing a pitch.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna hone in on that
Speaker 3: sound and try to write around that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm forever curious and messy with it. But yes,
Speaker 3: i do love that stuff. But there's nothing like the
Speaker 3: satisfaction for me of of also making music that my
Speaker 3: brother and my dad and I can be like, you know,
Speaker 3: at Christmas time, be like that slaps you know what
Speaker 3: I'm saying. So that's kind of like that's where it
Speaker 3: usually returns to home base, you know, and it's a
Speaker 3: bit full circle here, but yeah, yeah, that kind of
Speaker 3: southern end rock stuff is it's kind of our jam,
Speaker 3: you know, it's really it's the cornerstone I think of
Speaker 3: of of where we end usually back when we're listening
Speaker 3: to other stuff around the stereo when we get together.
Speaker 3: And I'm still making mixtapes for people, honestly, really absolutely,
Speaker 3: I'm still. I mean, now it's what is a playlist now?
Speaker 3: But my dad asked me. My dad had his birthday
Speaker 3: two weeks ago and we had another snowstorms, so I
Speaker 3: couldn't make it down to go see him. But he's like, hey,
Speaker 3: when you do come back, will you burn me a CD?
Speaker 3: You know I still got a CD burner. Yes, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna burn you a new CD. So, uh, we're still
Speaker 3: doing it.
Speaker 2: What'd you put on it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm waiting to go see him, but I know
Speaker 3: he wants the new Horses stuff that I'm making. I
Speaker 3: think he wants to be able to listen to it
Speaker 3: in his car. That's what I am going to make
Speaker 3: him A proper, a proper mix. For sure. He's he's due.
Speaker 2: I was looking at your the Georgia Volume one mixtape
Speaker 2: or the playlist sorry that you put up and Spotify,
Speaker 2: And I was wondering, like, do blood, Sweat and Tears
Speaker 2: go into that playlist? Like are you overthinking it? Like
Speaker 2: or do you just throw stuff together and you're like,
Speaker 2: all right, that's good.
Speaker 3: The answer is I definitely overthink it and I always
Speaker 3: feel like it's not enough. But and a lot of
Speaker 3: that like mixing with messing with like cutting up audio
Speaker 3: and stuff. Stem tell me that's from mixtapes. From mixtapes, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I would have like you know, like the dual cassette
Speaker 3: decks and then like the CD player and the CD burner,
Speaker 3: you know, and I would I would kind of make
Speaker 3: just like interludes in between songs and stuff like that
Speaker 3: to two smooth transitions into different styles or whatever it know.
Speaker 2: So yeah, very.
Speaker 3: Much so in movie clips and stuff like that just
Speaker 3: to make you know, somebody laugh. So a lot of
Speaker 3: that stuff stems from it all comes back to making
Speaker 3: mixtapes really, you know, and I'm just trying to make
Speaker 3: and I'm trying to make one for my dad and
Speaker 3: my brother and me within the band in a way.
Speaker 2: That's so cool. Okay, I want to ask you about
Speaker 2: some of the specific songs here on this Georgia volume.
Speaker 2: One playlist. What about RIM's imitation? Is it imitation? Man?
Speaker 3: I just love Rim so much. And you know, Rim
Speaker 3: really uh, Rim emboldened the art and indie and rock
Speaker 3: community of the South, you know, to say like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, we can do this, like you can actually
Speaker 3: break through and and there's there's legit talent that needs
Speaker 3: to be expressed here in the South that's not just
Speaker 3: you know, uh, you know, country frat boy stuff. So
Speaker 3: I love that song so much and it means a
Speaker 3: lot to me. I used to listen to that song
Speaker 3: with my two oldest kids when they were first going
Speaker 3: to like pre k and stuff like that. We that's
Speaker 3: we always gravitated toward that song. They just they love
Speaker 3: that And I would start to play that I'm really superstitious,
Speaker 3: and I'd play it like after a if Georgia won
Speaker 3: a football game, you know, I'd have to like listen
Speaker 3: to that song for fear that if I don't, we'll
Speaker 3: lose the next game. Yeah, that kind of stuff. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I love Rim so much. I saw something recently of
Speaker 3: you know, like in office, all these people going around
Speaker 3: like what's the best Rim song? And everyone's got a
Speaker 3: different song, you know, And I saw I. This was
Speaker 3: like four thirty in the morning when I saw this,
Speaker 3: So I was like, dude, I don't know if I
Speaker 3: could name mine. So I like started my own like
Speaker 3: RIM playlist. This is just like two days ago, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's like twenty five songs deep. I'm still
Speaker 3: not satisfied with uh, with making sure that I've got
Speaker 3: all my favorites in it.
Speaker 2: You know, I like night Swimming.
Speaker 3: Night Swimming is fantastic, so good, so good, and I
Speaker 3: mean beautiful. There's still a lot of gold to go
Speaker 3: mine in for in the RIM catalog that maybe got
Speaker 3: kind of overlooked in those later years.
Speaker 2: I feel the same way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, Perfect Circle, the perfect Circle gives me
Speaker 3: chills from the top of my head to the tip
Speaker 3: of my toes. Perfect Circle.
Speaker 2: Okay, I need to listen to that as soon as
Speaker 2: we're off. Since you spent time sort of like the band,
Speaker 2: some of the band's formative years in Seattle, and this
Speaker 2: was post grunge, of course, who looking back at like
Speaker 2: the you know, grunge at its height, Like, who were
Speaker 2: your favorite grunge bands?
Speaker 3: Well, I was lucky that, you know, to have Me
Speaker 3: and my friend group were like really lucky to have
Speaker 3: older siblings. We were all like the babies of our
Speaker 3: of our families, and our older siblings got us into
Speaker 3: like my brother got me into mud Hunting before I
Speaker 3: heard Nirvana, so it was like, but Nirvana to me
Speaker 3: is like they're just so raw and real and good
Speaker 3: to me, the songwriting is so good, like like Beatles
Speaker 3: level good. Yeah, so it lives forever. But I I love,
Speaker 3: I love mud Honey and I and I, I mean
Speaker 3: I liked, I liked even like the stuff that wasn't
Speaker 3: considered grunged but was like like pop like the Fastbacks
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, or like there was like some
Speaker 3: kind of garage type bands that were on like Espress Records,
Speaker 3: and I mean, what was Tree people. They were like
Speaker 3: Neil Young influenced. Yeah, they just didn't fit into like
Speaker 3: whatever the grunge sound was, which is just a label, right,
Speaker 3: But yeah, of the time frame, there's so many there's
Speaker 3: such a well of inspiration up there that is undeniable.
Speaker 3: But for me and Pearl Jam, I love Pearl Jam.
Speaker 3: I grew to love Pearl Jam getting to know them
Speaker 3: and torn with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they seemed like super cool guys.
Speaker 3: Absolutely and have great songs, but for me, like Nirvana
Speaker 3: is really like top tier. Like I'm I feel like
Speaker 3: lucky to have been alive and seen that happen me too.
Speaker 2: I say that all the time. I feel like you're
Speaker 2: so special and I love that there's only three of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know what in the world, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of racket for just a few dudes.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: How's he doing that that guitar, Mike? How many guitars
Speaker 3: are playings like one? Dude?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 2: Okay, So thank you so much, Ben, I'm sorry I
Speaker 2: took so much of your time. You're fun to talk to.
Speaker 3: I didn't even notice if it was over and us
Speaker 3: and no, you're amazing. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3: And I'm a fan of what y'all do, and I'm
Speaker 3: just such a fan of music. I love that y'all
Speaker 3: get underneath the surface of these stories and I really
Speaker 3: appreciate what you do so respect and thank you for
Speaker 3: having me. I really, I really am grateful and it's
Speaker 3: nice to meet you.
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you too. I can't wait to hear
Speaker 2: the new album. When you hear you rock out.
Speaker 3: Hey, it'll be fun, I swear. Just don't just don't
Speaker 3: think I'm depressed, so I'm doing fine, cool all right.
Speaker 1: An episode description, you'll find a link to a playlist
Speaker 1: feature in our favorites from Brand of Courses. Be sure
Speaker 1: to check out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast
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Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.