1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson. 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 2: John Slavitt is the founder of Halftime with John, the 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 2: network for men at midlife. Hi John, Hi Kelly, Thank 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: you so much for being here. 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 3: It's great to be here. 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: So, as an executive and entrepreneur in tech, you have 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 2: led multiple consumer companies from startup to scaled up, is 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 2: what I read in your bio. But it was after 10 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: your personal experience with divorce that you wanted to start 11 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 2: this platform for men with Halftime with John. So can 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: you talk us through what you uncovered during your midlife 13 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: divorce experience that made you want to start this platform. 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 3: You're not wasting any time. 15 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 2: I'm getting right to it. 16 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 3: Right down to the heart of it. Well, you know, 17 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 3: I think we actually had a similar year in twenty 18 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: twenty three. 19 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 2: What do you think. 20 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 3: I was looking at your Insta and looking at some 21 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 3: of the stuff that you reposted about all the change 22 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: called that the KRK screw up, be Up and the down, 23 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: and I had a similar experience. Yeah, I went through 24 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 3: this kind of perfect storm of stuff. In twenty twenty three. 25 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 3: My father passed away after a long illness. The company 26 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 3: of which I was founding CEO, my board decided they 27 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 3: want a different CEO. We had a parting of ways. 28 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 3: I finalized my financial settlement with my ex after so 29 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 3: many years in the beginning of twenty twenty three. We'd 30 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 3: been divorced for a while. But the financial settlement, you know, 31 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 3: I got me married. I put all of my stuff 32 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 3: in a couple double bags and moved in with my wife, 33 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: who was a much better sense of style than I do. 34 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 3: She refused to allow any of the furniture from my 35 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 3: bachelor apartment to come to the place we live in. 36 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: But bottom line is, I had this perfect storm of 37 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 3: all of these things in life, any of which would 38 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 3: be a crisis and an opportunity. And I think that 39 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: caused me, you know, in my fifties to step back 40 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 3: and say, okay, am I waking up every morning passionate 41 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: and aligned in what I'm doing and what I'm bringing 42 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: you the world. And the answer was no. And I 43 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 3: turned to my wife and I said, I'm gonna do 44 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 3: something different. And that's what gave rise to Halftime with John. 45 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 3: That's what gave rise to what I'm doing now. And 46 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:17,839 Speaker 3: you know, crisis in life, which often happens at midlife, 47 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: which is this cauldron right for growth causes change and 48 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 3: I'm still in the middle of it. 49 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I always say we wouldn't change without pain, though, 50 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 2: So I do love the idea that crisis kind of 51 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: causes it. But what can you do with it after? 52 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 2: So what can you tell me? Is there a way 53 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 2: to have a successful divorce? 54 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned this because we 55 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: just pushed our latest episode of Halftime with John today, 56 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: So wherever you get the podcast or YouTube, my interviewee 57 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: is an amazing guy named Tom Sturgis. He's actually kind 58 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 3: of a legend in the music business, the world that 59 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: you're part of. He was the head of talent at 60 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 3: Versual Music for many years. He worked with everyone from 61 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 3: Arefa to fifty cent and he wrote a book called 62 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 3: A Good Divorce and he has lived that. And when 63 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 3: I interviewed him, what he said When I asked him 64 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: the question what does it mean to have a good divorce? 65 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: He said, John, it's respect, generosity and kindness. It's respect, 66 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 3: generosity and kindness. And he repeated that throughout our time together, 67 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: and essentially to kind of paraphrase what Tom taught me 68 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: we have to view the process with our soon to 69 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: be ex as something that's hopefully leading to a lifelong 70 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 3: relationship that is positive, especially when there are these precious 71 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 3: children in the middle. Now I have three kids and 72 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: a step soon, so I have three kids with my ex, 73 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,279 Speaker 3: ranging from age tent to nineteen. Tom has three boys, respect, generosity, 74 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: and kindness. If we can get over the emotional reactivity 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: that happens in any divorce, we get over the anger, 76 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 3: we get overcoming from the pain, and have a bit 77 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: of a vision for life after. I think a good 78 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 3: divorce is possible, but that doesn't mean it's not painful, 79 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 3: and it doesn't mean the financial settlement is not painful. 80 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: So it's not without pain that makes it a successful divorce, 81 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: which I think is so so such a good point 82 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: to make, because we as humans instinctively just try to 83 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: avoid pain right when we're going through something hard. I 84 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: think the things that we deem good or bad are 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: is it painful or is it not? And I love 86 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 2: that explanation because that's like adulting and one that's like 87 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: one statement that sums up adulting to me, because adulting 88 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 2: is not easy, nor is it There's no lack of pain, 89 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: but it's how we step into it and how we 90 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: handle ourselves through the process. 91 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: I think you're right. There's a famous JFK quote and 92 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 3: I think he had this on his desk in the 93 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 3: Oval office. Lord, the ocean is so vast and my 94 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 3: boat is so small at a certain point in life, 95 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: and of course, if you go through a separation divorce, 96 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 3: you have to point your little boat into the storm 97 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 3: and understand the only way to get through it is 98 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 3: to go through this storm. That draws on faith, It 99 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: draws on personal belief and the idea that you're going 100 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: to be okay. And I think until you actually point 101 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,239 Speaker 3: your little boat the bow of it into that storm 102 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: and go through it emotionally, spiritually, financially, you don't get 103 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: to the other side. 104 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. Well, your platform 105 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: is geared towards men specifically. I mean, obviously you're a man, 106 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: so I'm assuming that had a big part in why 107 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: you wanted to do that. But is there something that 108 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: you recognize in men going through this process that's different 109 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: from women. 110 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 3: That's a great question. One thing I would point out, 111 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 3: we're building a network for people at midlife. Our first 112 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 3: show is from Men at Midlife because that was my experience. 113 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 3: But we'll have many hosts and many shows that will 114 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 3: launch over the next couple of years. At halftime with John, 115 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: I started with men because it is my personal experience, 116 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 3: you know. One of our upcoming guests Leila Aitkin, who's 117 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 3: the founder of a company called split Fyi. It's a 118 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 3: website to help people go through divorce. She said it 119 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 3: very well. She said, what typically happens with men and women, 120 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 3: and I'm being stereotypical, is if the analogy during the 121 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: conflict of divorces like a boxing match, when men and 122 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 3: women go to their corners, they often leverage the thing 123 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 3: that their comfortable with. Men sometimes leverage money and women 124 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: leverage the kids. Now, this is not every time, but 125 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: this is not a typical and that can be a difference. 126 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: The other thing that Lilah points out, and she went 127 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: through a terrible divorce again my guest in an upcoming episode, 128 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: her husband left her when she was six months pregnant. 129 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 3: She said that it's typical for women on an emotional 130 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 3: level to want to maintain an emotional connection with their 131 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: ex while they're going through the divorce, whereas men tend 132 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: to emotionally compartmentalize and not want or know how to 133 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 3: do that. Now. I would argue that if you're going 134 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: through the trauma of separation divorce, you really do need 135 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: to take a pause on the emotional connection with your ex. 136 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 3: It doesn't mean you can't be kind, but the expectations 137 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: of the marriage do not carry through emotionally to the 138 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: process of divorce. So I think those are a couple 139 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 3: of the difference is otherwise, Kelly, It's all the same. 140 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 3: I think that when people are at their worst, coming 141 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 3: from reactivity and acting out of pain and fear, their 142 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:14,559 Speaker 3: behavior is negative. And what I've learned counseling so many 143 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 3: men is that fifty one percent of the battle is 144 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 3: emotional and mental sustainability and forty nine percent is the 145 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 3: tactical and practical process of getting through the divorce. And 146 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 3: this is the same for men and women. If you 147 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 3: can't find practices and support it, or a therapist or 148 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 3: an advocate to support you, the financial aspect of the 149 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: negotiations will be that much tougher. 150 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 2: That makes total sense to me. I have a couple 151 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: more questions I want to get to you in a 152 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: minute about that. Just as far as the moving on 153 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: process goes, because that's something I've noticed is different between 154 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: men and women. But first I want to ask you. 155 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: You know, millions of people get divorced every year, and 156 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 2: I was reading in your bio to you talk a 157 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: lot about how it's so super isolating for men specifically, 158 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 2: why is that that time? Why is that so isolating 159 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: for a man? 160 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought this up. Multiple of the experts 161 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 3: that I'm talking to in the season, I have quoted 162 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 3: the boys don't cry stereotype. It's still alive, and I 163 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: think that men come out of childhood losing the vulnerability 164 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 3: and the connectivity that vulnerability provides us with other humans. 165 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: Owen Marcus, who's an expert in men's mental emotional health, 166 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: one of my early guests, said amazingly that studies showed 167 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: that little boys and girls at age two, the boys 168 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 3: are more sensitive. Really once, yes, but once they get 169 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 3: a little bit older, the boys lose that and the 170 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 3: girls maintain it. And what the girls maintain is the 171 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 3: emotional connectivity to other people, particularly women and their circles 172 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: of support. And little boys that grow to be men 173 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 3: do not have the same emotional vulnerability and connectivity and 174 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 3: don't have the same support system naturally when they get 175 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 3: to crises in their lives. You know, it's one thing 176 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 3: to have lots of friends, but it's very different to 177 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 3: have men where you feel you can be yourself, you 178 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 3: can share your weaknesses, you can be vulnerable, you can 179 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: be emotional. Many men don't have that, but it turns 180 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 3: out that most women do have it. So all of 181 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 3: a sudden, these boys that became men get into the 182 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: cauldron of midlife, their relationship isn't working, and they kind 183 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 3: of go to their own corner alone to start, and 184 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 3: they don't understand how to be connected. And that's a 185 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: huge difference. 186 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: So it's mostly a programming thing. 187 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 3: Then. 188 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: That's so interesting to me that men are when they're younger, 189 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 2: more sensitive. I mean, it kind of makes sense to 190 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: me with some of some other theories that I'm working through, 191 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: but I can't, Yeah, I can't wrap my mind around 192 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 2: what exactly happens to a man during the process. Because 193 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 2: as a woman, we're so encouraged for community. So how 194 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 2: could a man in this situation in his midlife, not 195 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: having that experience throughout his life change that, Like, how 196 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: can a man reach out for community during a hard 197 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 2: time like this. 198 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 3: I'm so glad you led me to this question. You 199 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: got to take a risk. Start with one person now 200 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 3: that could be a therapist. I think the great thing 201 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 3: is with better help and modern mental health. I think 202 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 3: mental health is being destigmatized. God blessed, and I think 203 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 3: that men should understand that there is no shame in 204 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: seeking help, so you can get help from multiple places. 205 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 3: I think that you can get help from a therapist's 206 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 3: you know, I've mentioned you can get help from a friend. 207 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: Maybe it's a male friend that your instinct tells you 208 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 3: could be vulnerable with, and you could say, hey, I 209 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 3: need help, and I need your help, and take a chance. 210 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 3: Trust your instincts and take a chance. I think the 211 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 3: other piece of it is developing practices that support our 212 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 3: own internal emotional and mental health. Whether it's meditation. I 213 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: meditate regularly, whether it's a practice that takes you out 214 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: of the dark and into the light. Heck, Tom Stur 215 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: just talks about how his divorce he found Instagram, reels 216 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 3: and TikTok, and he just laughed ten minutes a day 217 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 3: at the absurdity of what's on these platforms. But I 218 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: think back to your question, men need to trust their 219 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: instincts and take a risk to connect with other people, 220 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 3: or it could be a woman in your life. Is 221 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: there a woman in your life whom you trust and 222 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 3: you could be vulnerable with. 223 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, that leads me to the next piece that 224 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 2: I want to discuss. Something that I've noticed between friends 225 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 2: of mine. I mean, I'm midlife, I'm forty two. So 226 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 2: friends of mine going through the process of divorce, whether 227 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: it's a man or a woman, there is one significant 228 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: difference in every single situation. And the women that I 229 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 2: see going through the divorce take a break, they take 230 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 2: a pause. They're focused on either whether they have kids 231 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 2: or the process of the divorce, or healing themselves, like 232 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: going through the grief process of the relationship, kind of 233 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: finding themselves again. And all of the men immediately start dating. 234 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 2: So is part of that in your opinion based on 235 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: this searching for connection? Maybe maybe that's not been safe 236 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 2: for me, like my men friends to go to other men. 237 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 2: Maybe they don't have those communities or why is that happening? 238 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: What is behind this? 239 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 3: That's interesting? Well, by the way, I saw you had 240 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 3: an astrology expert. My wife is a huge lay astrology 241 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 3: expert her self and my wife would say channeling her 242 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 3: is I bet the Capricorn moon women start dating right away. 243 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: I'm a Capricorn man, Harry, achievement oriented. I've got my 244 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 3: to do list. To your question about the differences between 245 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 3: men and women rebounding and dating right away, You're probably right. 246 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 3: I think any man or woman who is self aware 247 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: needs to take a pause and not seek another relationship. 248 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 3: When you're going through your divorce, you're not in a place, 249 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 3: you don't know what you want. You're probably reactive and 250 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 3: you're going to hurt someone else. The truth is you're 251 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: going to You're gonna take your hurt and you're going 252 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 3: to hurt someone else. My first guest of my first 253 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 3: season is an amazing relationship expert named Coma Bojuani. You 254 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 3: can see her on NBC and she's at commonolive dot 255 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 3: com and she talks about her own experience of separation divorce, 256 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 3: which she's going through right now. She talks about it openly, 257 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 3: and she talks about how if you go out to 258 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: the dating apps, you can find anything you want. As 259 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 3: we all know, you can find any mode and anything 260 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: you want, and that will not lead you down a 261 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 3: good path if you're in the middle of your separation divorce. Now, men, 262 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 3: I think who are in that pain. I think it 263 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 3: is very natural to want to find a distraction, whether 264 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: it's sex or companionship or whatever you want to find. 265 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: And for guys who live from here and wanted to 266 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: brain pointing to my head, which is most people, I 267 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 3: think that rebounding is a natural instinct. I just say, 268 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: don't do it. 269 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 2: Don't do it. No, But you said you are remarried, correct, 270 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 2: So when what would your suggestions be? So wait until 271 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 2: you're officially divorced possibly, or what are the parameters? Give 272 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 2: me some tips here? 273 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I got separated seven years ago June, okay, 274 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 3: and divorced, you know, a good while ago. My financial 275 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: settlement was separated from my legal divorce, So okay, that's 276 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: an important distinction. But what I would say is you've 277 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 3: got to trust yourself and how you are mentally and 278 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 3: emotionally spiritually, and really check in with that before you 279 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 3: actually get out there and start dating and want to 280 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 3: have a relationship. Now, what are the other pieces? Are 281 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: you emotionally available? What do you have to give to 282 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 3: someone else? Are you just trying to get and I 283 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 3: think the other piece, yes, is the legal divorce. I 284 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 3: think that most women who have a lot going for 285 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 3: them want to see a guy who is legally divorced 286 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: where the county and a judge has stamped that legal divorce. 287 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 3: I remember when I was going through my separation. I 288 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: think I probably waited nine to twelve months after I 289 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 3: was separated before dating. Okay, I was on the ASPS, 290 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 3: and I think a couple women early on called me 291 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: out and said, hey, are you are you legally divorced? 292 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 3: Are you know what are you going for? I wasn't 293 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 3: legally divorced yet, and I think the truth is I 294 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 3: probably wasn't ready, and it was some time after that. Actually, 295 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 3: in the spring of twenty twenty, I connected with my 296 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 3: now wife, and you know, met the woman that I 297 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 3: was meant to be with for the rest of my life. 298 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: I'm very happy to say so. I would say that 299 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 3: you've got to know, you've got to be available. And 300 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 3: I think being legally divorced is a good idea. 301 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: Well, isn't it some form of unavailability if you're still 302 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 2: married technically? That's all I've always viewed it. 303 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: I think it is, and I think there's a there's 304 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 3: a legal piece to it, there's an emotional piece to it, 305 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: and everyone hasked to decide for him or herself. You know, 306 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 3: I think it is possible if you've been separated for 307 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: a while and your legal divorce is in your sites, 308 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 3: and you have not been physical or emotionally connected to 309 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 3: your ex for a good while. I think there are 310 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: people who were ready and available. I think it's also 311 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: valid for a new potential partner to say, hey, I'd 312 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 3: like to see you be legally divorced. Yeah, but it depends. 313 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 3: I don't think every case is black and white. 314 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: Well. I like that you mentioned the pause though, because 315 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 2: I would imagine if you're coming out of a divorce 316 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 2: and let's say you've been married quite some time, you 317 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: might not know even what you want, which I would 318 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: imagine walking into dating could be kind of intimidating because 319 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: you've been in this relationship for a super long time. 320 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: You kind of have to get to know yourself again. 321 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: So can you talk through a little bit about that, Like, 322 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: what are some ways you mentioned meditation, but what are 323 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 2: some ways listeners may take the pause and really lean 324 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 2: into getting to know this new version of themselves. 325 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 3: That's a great question, Listen, I think, speaking some personal experience. 326 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: So I'm a Libra and a double Libra. What does 327 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 3: that mean? 328 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: I love all this astrology talking about By. 329 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 3: The way, I knew nothing about this and it was 330 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: a deep skeptic before I met my wife. Yes, my 331 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 3: wife is a star commercial attorney at a big tech company, 332 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 3: but she happens to be a lay expert in astrology. 333 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 3: And she started feeding me stuff and we got together 334 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 3: and I thought, how do you know me better than 335 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 3: anyone has ever known me? Just from knowing my time 336 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 3: of day, date, place, whatever year birth. So it's legit. 337 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 3: I mean, it is legit, you know, listen. I think 338 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: my first response, Kelly, to the question how do we 339 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 3: start to know ourselves again? Is to look inward and 340 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 3: to understand you know ourselves internally, try to understand our 341 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: own emotions, our own emotional patterns, and our own instincts. 342 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 3: And so I think for most men who come out 343 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 3: of childhood disconnected emotionally, because that's the way boys are bred, right, 344 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 3: I mean boys in this country. Unless you're part of 345 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 3: a different, exceptional family or maybe an exceptional different set 346 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 3: of parents, we learn to suck it up. We learned 347 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 3: to achieve, we learn to somewhat go to loan, as 348 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 3: we've discussed. So I think the first thing is is 349 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 3: to figure out ways to understand our own emotional map. 350 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 3: How do we do it? Learning to meditate and take 351 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 3: some space internally allows the instincts to come up, and 352 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 3: the self awareness to come up, and those epiphanies to 353 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 3: come up that we never knew and never thought about. 354 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: The whole roadmap is truly inside. I mean, God did 355 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: make each of us with the whole universe inside of 356 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 3: us and all of the answers. But we spend most 357 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 3: of our time and I'm pointing to my head again 358 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 3: for those listening in our minds and in our to 359 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: do lists and in what society or our parents, or 360 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 3: our spouse or our friends think we should be. So 361 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 3: I'd say, first look inside and find those practices. Meditation 362 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 3: is a great is a great process. The other thing is, 363 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of therapy, and I'm actually working 364 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 3: with a new therapist looking at anger and looking at 365 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 3: what part anger has played in my life and my 366 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 3: own different emotional parts. There's a system called internal family 367 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 3: systems that my late father in law worked with called 368 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 3: parts work he passed away. He was an amazing counselor 369 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 3: to so many people, and I'm working with someone who 370 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: does that same work. Understand your own emotional internal map, 371 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 3: what is it driving you to do? The last thing 372 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 3: I tell you, and my last episode guest Derek Haswell, 373 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 3: who's the founder of ten percent Happier, great company that 374 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 3: provides meditation and mindfulness coaching and apps and also the 375 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: Dan Harris the ten percent Happier app. You know. Derek, 376 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 3: who's an amazing guy, talks about how we need to 377 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 3: learn to respond, not react, and when we're run by 378 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 3: old emotional patterns that are unexamined, we live our life 379 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 3: reacting not responding. So find ways to slow down and 380 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: look internally. All the answers are there. 381 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 2: I love that, I love all of everything you just said, 382 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 2: and I completely agree. And until you slow down, I 383 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: find it difficult as a human to hear anything, to 384 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 2: get any information coming from my insides or my internal map. 385 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: As you've talked about, so some in our culture seems 386 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 2: so driven by go go, go go, or compartmentalized like 387 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier. So sometimes it does take the slowing down, 388 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 2: as hard as it can be to get the map 389 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 2: to get the guidance. But it's not a bad thing. 390 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 2: I love that the way you just framed all of that, 391 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 2: just thinking through hearing about your experience, and you mentioned 392 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 2: being on the dating apps after your divorce. How different 393 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 2: was dating after being married a significant amount of time 394 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: from before you got married to then after, and like, 395 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: how did you adjust? If people are listening maybe going 396 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 2: through this process now, it could be kind of intimidating, 397 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 2: I would imagine, because the dating world has changed quite 398 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 2: a lot. 399 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. That's a true statement, Kelly. So I 400 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 3: was with my ex for let's see, a total of 401 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 3: seventeen years, fourteen years married and three years together before 402 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 3: we got married. So, you know, ironically, you know, when 403 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 3: I was a young guy just moved to the Bay Area, 404 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 3: San Francisco, Bay Area in the late nineties to pursue 405 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: a career in tech, Match dot com had launched a 406 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 3: couple of years before, and I knew the founders and 407 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 3: I thought, you know, and by the way, when match 408 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 3: dot Com launched, it was in a basement on Brian 409 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 3: Street in San Francisco. It was like thirty engineers and 410 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 3: they couldn't get real women to sign up for the service, 411 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 3: so they created female profiles and impersonated women. That's how 412 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 3: match dot com started. Now it's of course, it's a 413 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 3: part of IAC and it's a huge business. And they 414 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 3: were legitimate men and women on all of these apps, 415 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 3: you know. I think what you learn is be super 416 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: overt about who you are for real, what you want 417 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 3: for real, and put that out right on your profile. 418 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 3: And I think for men who are very visual, okay, 419 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 3: men tend to go for look and it looks, and 420 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 3: we'll make compromises on other things for looks. Okay, I'm 421 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 3: being stereotypical, bad idea, Okay, Right, So I think looks 422 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 3: are important. Physical chemistry is super important. I'm not saying 423 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 3: it's not. But be clear about what you want and 424 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 3: interests and background and personality and intelligence, right, all the 425 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 3: things that it turns out like really matter, and don't 426 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,400 Speaker 3: compromise those things in service of just hooking up or 427 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: a volume of dates, particularly when you're lonely and if 428 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 3: you're rebounding out, like we talked about earlier, just looking 429 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 3: to fill your dance card because your kids are spending 430 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 3: more time with your soon to BX than with you, 431 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: and that's created a huge hole. Maybe your friends have 432 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 3: proceeded from you because they're siding with your soon to BX. 433 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: Maybe you just feel lonely, but I'd say fight those 434 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 3: areges and instincts. Know what you want, you know the 435 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 3: kind of person you want, and be patient. 436 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 2: Okay, so there's that questioning again. Yeah. I actually listened 437 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 2: to your podcast with Tom Sturgis earlier and he I 438 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 2: loved this statement that he said and when we kind 439 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 2: of mentioned having a successful divorce, but he said to 440 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 2: really try to switch your perspective to it's not a 441 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: failure just because it ended, which is such a big 442 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 2: portion of how I'm moving in relationships in this point 443 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 2: in my life as well. And it's kind of become 444 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: funny to me to even hear someone say like, oh, 445 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 2: well that's the one or you're looking for the one, 446 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 2: because I think relationships can serve us so much in 447 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 2: such a bigger capacity than just that just the one 448 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: that you're going to be with forever. You know, every 449 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 2: relationship in my life has served a deep purpose, and 450 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: when I look at it in that way, they all 451 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,120 Speaker 2: feel like successes. So how can we as humans who 452 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: have been programmed to kind of you know, since day one. 453 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: It's kind of like you got to find the one partner. 454 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 2: How can we look at the relationships that have ended 455 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: as successes. 456 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 3: You just gave me chills, So good, Anya, as Austin's 457 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 3: would say, And I think, why did I just get chills? 458 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,959 Speaker 3: Our partners, wives, husbands are not there to make us happy. 459 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 3: Our partners are not there to make us happy. It 460 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 3: doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy with the people in 461 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: our lives. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be loving and connected. 462 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, it's, you know, 463 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 3: to be tried. It's an inside job. And speaking for myself, 464 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 3: I came out of childhood like most high achievers any 465 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: gram three by the way, I know you know the performer, Yeah, 466 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 3: the achiever. I came out with an internal deficit that 467 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 3: Derek haswell. My last guest before Tom would call them 468 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 3: not enough. Most, I would say, many driven, high achieving 469 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 3: men and women have that deficit. It is a double 470 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: led sword. It's a double led sword that causes us 471 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 3: to seek things externally to get praise to fill the 472 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 3: deficit inside. And those things are achievement, they are jobs, 473 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 3: they are titles. Sometimes they're children. It is money. It 474 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 3: is the right in quotes, I did air quotes the 475 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 3: right spouse or partner. So and then we put all 476 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 3: of this pressure on the relationship to make us happy 477 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 3: and fulfill us. So you're right. I love what Tom said, 478 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 3: which is his first marriage was not a failure, it 479 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 3: was a success. He had two beautiful sons from that relationship. 480 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 3: I have three beautiful kids with my ex. I thank 481 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 3: god from my ex. She is a great woman, she 482 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 3: is a strong person. We're trying to figure out how 483 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 3: to be the best cope parents that we can. It's 484 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 3: an ongoing process. It's never perfect, and I thank god 485 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 3: that I met her and had three beautiful children. I 486 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 3: have with her number one thing in my life, along 487 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: with my wife and my step son. So reset and 488 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,479 Speaker 3: recast the idea of your first marriage if you're going 489 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 3: through separation and divorce, what did you learn from it? 490 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: What did you gain from it? But also remember this, 491 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 3: at any given point in our lives, where everything that's 492 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 3: led out to that point creates our mindset and our 493 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 3: field of vision, we make the choices we make based 494 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 3: on who we are at that moment. And if you 495 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 3: look back on yourself five or fifteen five or ten 496 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 3: or fifteen years ago or longer when you got married. 497 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 3: That's the choice you were meant to make at that 498 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 3: time in your life, for reasons that sometimes you can't see. 499 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 3: There was no other choice. That person, that person who 500 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 3: became your relationship and the person may now be your 501 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: ex There was a reason, there was a plan behind it. 502 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 3: And so here we are now with new awareness and 503 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 3: new experience to make different choices. But it's all good. Yeah, 504 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 3: it's all good. 505 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: I so resonate with the high achieving piece of what 506 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: you said, and I think because of that, so many 507 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: of us do feel like relationships that end are embarrassing 508 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: our it was, you know, it's like unsuccessful or I've 509 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 2: carried a lot of shame in my life just based 510 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 2: on things failing. But exactly like you said, when I 511 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: look back now, each relationship that ended was such a 512 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 2: big part of my own evolution, which is why we're 513 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: all here anyway, right, just the journey of our own growth. 514 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: So if it got you there, it was worth something. 515 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: It was a success, even if it was crazy looking 516 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: in the moment when you're in it and it needed 517 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 2: to end or anything like that. 518 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 3: That's right, Kelly and I just say one other thing. 519 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: You know how when you look back on your life, 520 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 3: those moments of pain, those moments of change that felt 521 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 3: terrible in the moment, you can't see what's around the 522 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 3: next corner and the next corner in those moments. And 523 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 3: it's only through those moments of change and pain that 524 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 3: give rise to the opportunity for the great things that 525 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 3: are around the next corners. There's a cause and effect. 526 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, well it is. The podcast is called Halftime 527 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 2: with John. It's a whole platform. I'm so excited to 528 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: see what you do when you open it up to 529 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: even more than just the men talk, because I've loved 530 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 2: the men talk from a women's perspective even it's been 531 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 2: great for me. Where else can people find you if 532 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 2: they want to keep up with what you're doing and 533 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 2: just with the company. 534 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 3: Thank you, Kelly. So you can find us at Halftime 535 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 3: dot network. Okay, it's the site for the podcast. You 536 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 3: can find us on YouTube if you search Halftime with 537 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 3: John JOHNSJOM. By the way, there's no age. You can 538 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 3: find us also wherever that you would listen to your podcast. 539 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: Amazing. I will put all of that in the description 540 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: of the podcast for you guys as always, John, thank 541 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 2: you so much for being here. I really enjoyed this conversation. 542 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,120 Speaker 3: Me too, Kelly, thank you. 543 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, 544 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a 545 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty 546 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.