1
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcasts featuring conversations with

2
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,360
Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

3
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,000
Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, business editor for Variety Today. My guests are

4
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,799
Speaker 1: the leaders of Tomorrow Studios CEO Marty Adelstein and President

5
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 1: Becky Clements. The two discussed the company's unusual deal with

6
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: I t V Studios, which allows them to put up

7
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,360
Speaker 1: deficit financing on some of their TV projects, a rare

8
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,120
Speaker 1: commodity for independent producers. The pair discussed the long road

9
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 1: travel to get the TV adaptation of Snow Piercer to

10
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 1: T and T and Netflix this month, and the fact

11
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 1: that the bar is high because of the success of

12
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: the two thousand thirteen movie from Parasite director Bong June Ho.

13
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,519
Speaker 1: Atolstein and Clements also talk about launching an animation company

14
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,680
Speaker 1: in Japan and producing with the global market in mind

15
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,520
Speaker 1: for Netflix, and Adelstein draws on his experience as an

16
00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: agent at CIA and endeavor to share some thoughts about

17
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,680
Speaker 1: this precarious moment for Hollywood talent agencies. Marty Atolstein and

18
00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,480
Speaker 1: Becky Clements of Tomorrow Studios, thank you so much for

19
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 1: joining us. Thank you for having us. This is a

20
00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,760
Speaker 1: really momentous time, a momentous week for your company. Tomorrow, Studios,

21
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 1: you are going to see the debut of a series

22
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,280
Speaker 1: project that you have been shepherding, by my account, for

23
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,960
Speaker 1: at least five years, probably long, probably longer than that.

24
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: Snow Piercer a very big, ambitious, the kind of kind

25
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:35,520
Speaker 1: of thing we don't see that much on linear TV anymore,

26
00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:41,319
Speaker 1: A big, ambitious drama with big auspices, big cast, and

27
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 1: it has you have You have had quite a path

28
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 1: to the screen with this project. So snow Piercer is

29
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 1: a drama series. It's premiering on TNT and a couple

30
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 1: of days later it will have its international debut on Netflix.

31
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 1: Tell us, I know it's not a sucinct story, but

32
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 1: it can one of you. Tell us sort of the

33
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: path that snow Piercer has taken to the screen, and

34
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 1: what it feels for you guys to finally be sitting here,

35
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, with the premier date within reach. Well, for me,

36
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,639
Speaker 1: it started in a very funny way. I was watching

37
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 1: I had been a fan of director Bonds for a

38
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,919
Speaker 1: long time, his first three movies, and I watched it

39
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: with my wife on Netflix and She looked at me

40
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,360
Speaker 1: afterwards and said, what do you think of it? I said,

41
00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna make a TV show out of it. It

42
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 1: just from the minute I saw the movie, I saw

43
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,920
Speaker 1: the potential of what it could be. You know, the

44
00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: original was sort of storming the Bastille and was fantastic,

45
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 1: but there was so much more material in the French

46
00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 1: graphic novel and also, you know, it just lent itself

47
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,160
Speaker 1: to expanding it. Can you take us kind of through

48
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,920
Speaker 1: the steps of how you optioned the property? You set

49
00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,519
Speaker 1: it up? Did you originally set it up at t

50
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,399
Speaker 1: N T. It's been it's been a while, I can't

51
00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,200
Speaker 1: even remember the trajectory. Yeah, we set it up once

52
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,679
Speaker 1: we had optioned it, which took a long time to

53
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,320
Speaker 1: tie down the rights um once we optioned it. Uh,

54
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 1: we had a number of offers. Kevin Riley really stepped

55
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 1: up and ordered the ten episodes and really kept his

56
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:26,960
Speaker 1: promise throughout the throughout the process and guaranteed us enough

57
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 1: money to actually make it because we knew it was

58
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 1: going to be an expensive endeavor to undertake. It was

59
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 1: really t NT made the most compelling case. H gotcha.

60
00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,320
Speaker 1: And then you had, you know, over the years you had,

61
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,800
Speaker 1: you had creative changes, you had a couple of show

62
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 1: inter changes. Did you didn't move from t n T

63
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,640
Speaker 1: At one point it was going to go to HBO

64
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 1: Max and then it came back to t N T

65
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,000
Speaker 1: And am I mistaken a matter? Oh, you're absolutely right.

66
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,840
Speaker 1: It was gonna go to t n T, then HBO Max,

67
00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,080
Speaker 1: then t n T then HBO Max. It's just or

68
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 1: a moment. It was that there was a six month

69
00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 1: period where TBS was going to air it, which was

70
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 1: a little confounding to us. Tell me, now, how did

71
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 1: the Netflix component come in and did that make a

72
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: difference in terms of this this project being the resources

73
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 1: that it demanded. Yes, made a big difference. Uh. Netflix.

74
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,720
Speaker 1: It was kind of funny because Netflix Domestic didn't buy

75
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,279
Speaker 1: it um and then the International came in Larry Tans

76
00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: and inquired about buying the rights foreign for the rest

77
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,880
Speaker 1: of the world. And it really helped because as as

78
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 1: everything we do that's not on a streamer, we co finance.

79
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,159
Speaker 1: So it made a big difference and gave us a

80
00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,120
Speaker 1: cushion to make the show and it put the show

81
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 1: and profits from the beginning. Was that a difficult conversation

82
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,000
Speaker 1: to have T and t UH to have Netflix come

83
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,479
Speaker 1: in and sort of have a piece of this or

84
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,760
Speaker 1: where did they welcome that because it would allow the

85
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,200
Speaker 1: project to get made. The way our deal, our structure

86
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 1: works with T n T is that we put up

87
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 1: half the deficit, they put up half the deficit, and

88
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: we take foreign they take domestic. So it was really

89
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: ours to do. So it was it was your How

90
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,039
Speaker 1: was it for you just as a business, for the

91
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,279
Speaker 1: for the project to take obviously to take longer to

92
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,440
Speaker 1: come to fruition than you planned? Does that does that

93
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,640
Speaker 1: create any financial challenges? Obviously? Know it can create you know,

94
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,479
Speaker 1: scheduling challenges for your creative talent? How did you manage

95
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:34,560
Speaker 1: through the through you know unexpected delays, expect you want

96
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 1: to well, we um, I think if there's something how

97
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: if we could characterize this process, it was, you know,

98
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 1: because the idea and director bones movie was so full

99
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:52,880
Speaker 1: proof that with every creative change, every scheduling hurdle, every

100
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 1: stage we had to buy to build another thirty train cars. Um,

101
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 1: it was the concepts so great and we were so

102
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,919
Speaker 1: tenacious about we knew it would work. You know, you

103
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,720
Speaker 1: have to realize even through the creative changes we had

104
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,039
Speaker 1: to speak to the actors to say, we're having a

105
00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 1: new creative direction, please stick with us, T and T

106
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 1: change the air date by years um. But what we

107
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,039
Speaker 1: were able to uh leverage or convince them of is

108
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,360
Speaker 1: you're loving the creative content. So the quid pro quo

109
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 1: should be why don't you pick up additional episodes? So

110
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 1: that because we have a lot of very high end

111
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,600
Speaker 1: actors with a lot of offers, and we can't hold

112
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,480
Speaker 1: them for twelve months, sixteen eighteen months. So I think

113
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: because we worked so hard to produce a great show,

114
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: and we when we produce, we are involved in every outline,

115
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: every casting session, we were on the stage, we're in

116
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: at the edit bay. We really main stay on top

117
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,480
Speaker 1: of the creative from idea to marketing to launching. And

118
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 1: I think that gave them a lot of comfort that

119
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,960
Speaker 1: they knew we would deliver. And so Marty was able

120
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,280
Speaker 1: to convince them to let's move into a season two

121
00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: even before season one airs, because we just won't be

122
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,760
Speaker 1: able to hold on to all this talent um. And

123
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: so it was that persistence that got us. You know,

124
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 1: we've we've completed except for nine days of shooting. We've

125
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 1: completed almost all of season two. How do you feel

126
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 1: about um, you're going to be coming out on with

127
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 1: episodes on a weekly basis in a world that you know,

128
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 1: we're obviously especially now with so many people homebown everybody

129
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 1: is binging things. Are you concerned that that that the

130
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,080
Speaker 1: kind of traditional format may may hamper some of the

131
00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: momentum you might have if you could drop all eight episodes.

132
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,840
Speaker 1: I'm not. It's funny. I still I like the idea

133
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 1: of streaming, but sometimes it gets harder because there's so

134
00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,040
Speaker 1: many things out there, and you watch three episodes of these,

135
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: three episodes of that, and there are a few I

136
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:04,000
Speaker 1: still kind of like the traditional wait for the next episode.

137
00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,640
Speaker 1: It builds this pent up demand and that so I'm

138
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 1: not saying one is better than the other, but I'm

139
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,680
Speaker 1: to answer your question, I'm not really concerned about it,

140
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 1: and it's a thrill ride. I think the idea of

141
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,760
Speaker 1: watching for to six episodes of this back to back

142
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 1: could be a shock to the system. There's a lot

143
00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: going on, so you know, I think of like succession

144
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,360
Speaker 1: and all like that was exciting to know that you know,

145
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 1: a new this week, there's a new one, you know,

146
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 1: I do think there's value to it. Netflix thankfully is

147
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 1: going to air the first two episodes back to back,

148
00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: which I think is smart just because of the uh,

149
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,440
Speaker 1: the way their viewers watch. So I think that's a

150
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,800
Speaker 1: good thing. But I'm not concerned about it. And the Netflix,

151
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: if I understand right, internationally, is also going to air

152
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,800
Speaker 1: the episodes will roll out once a week, which is,

153
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, obviously unusual for them. Was that Was that

154
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,640
Speaker 1: a condition of the deal? That? How did that come about?

155
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: Because that's such a departure for them. It was a

156
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,320
Speaker 1: condition of the deal because of TNT scheduling of how

157
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 1: it could so they couldn't, you know, they couldn't release

158
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 1: it all at once foreign and have T and T

159
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: releasing it, um, you know, releasing it on a weekly basis.

160
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: It just it just went to work, and it would

161
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,360
Speaker 1: have mucked up the whole thing. Was that a tough

162
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,040
Speaker 1: conversation at Netflix? Or did they get it? They got it?

163
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,560
Speaker 1: They got it. They were so excited about getting it.

164
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,599
Speaker 1: They they would call every week when we're gonna get it,

165
00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 1: When we're gonna get it, When we're gonna get it.

166
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,680
Speaker 1: You after your long trial to get it to the screen,

167
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 1: you must have that. You know, the the universe did

168
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 1: smile on you with with a director Bunge and Hoe

169
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 1: becoming absolutely red hot with parasite and it's literally historic march.

170
00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 1: You know through the past awards season, you must have

171
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,120
Speaker 1: smiled at some point. Well, yes, I was. First of all,

172
00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,880
Speaker 1: I was very happy for him, and I thought it

173
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 1: was well deserved. But it's a double edged sword in

174
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 1: a way, because now that he is the au tour

175
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: that we always knew he was, we have a very

176
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,640
Speaker 1: high bar and very high bar to meat. So it's

177
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:20,200
Speaker 1: both good and added pressure. Has he had any involvement

178
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,440
Speaker 1: in the series, Um, not really, He's seen it. He

179
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 1: was on set a couple of times. Um, you know,

180
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,400
Speaker 1: I think he wanted to observe, but not get directly involved.

181
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 1: He had already done it. He'd done his version of it,

182
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,760
Speaker 1: he said when he came to the set, because he

183
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 1: was the their train on the movie was built on gimbals.

184
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,680
Speaker 1: That he said, even coming on the set brought back

185
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,920
Speaker 1: the motion sickness that he remembered from shooting the original.

186
00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 1: He had a little bit of like, I don't know

187
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,680
Speaker 1: that I can, you know, get on another moving train again.

188
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,960
Speaker 1: God as Llian so I think some of these these

189
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 1: apocalyptic aductions really leave people with a little with some

190
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,880
Speaker 1: ptsc Let's switch to a very different subject. Um. You know,

191
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't have to tell you. It's it's rare for producers,

192
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,720
Speaker 1: independent producers these days, to walk into a situation, especially

193
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,600
Speaker 1: a project of the scope of Snow Piercer, and to

194
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,559
Speaker 1: be walking in with any kind of deficit financing lit

195
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,800
Speaker 1: alone half of it. Tell me about Let's step back

196
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 1: a little bit now and just tell me about the

197
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,800
Speaker 1: structure of your company. You have a partnership with I

198
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,440
Speaker 1: TV Studios, I t V obviously one of the big

199
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,400
Speaker 1: UK broadcasters. But tell me how it is that you're

200
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 1: in this very unusual position. Oh my god, what a

201
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: journey to be perfectly honest, I you're at Fox, and

202
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,680
Speaker 1: we love the people at Fox. We did Prison Break

203
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,400
Speaker 1: and Tim Allen and that. But I wasn't very good

204
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,200
Speaker 1: after being representing so many people and being used to

205
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,320
Speaker 1: dictate the terms, to being told what we could do

206
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,480
Speaker 1: and not do. Um, there's no way the studio would

207
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,640
Speaker 1: have let us fly to Japan four times a year

208
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 1: to for the animals and things like that that we're doing.

209
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 1: But so I said to Becky, I'm going to go

210
00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 1: out and raise money or I may be done because

211
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,960
Speaker 1: I can't take this process. So I basically traveled the

212
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:26,680
Speaker 1: world and met every Chinese billionaire. Um, I met hedge

213
00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 1: fund guys who basically laughed me out of the room.

214
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 1: And it was just serendipity that I was in Europe

215
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 1: on vacation with my wife and I called I had

216
00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,320
Speaker 1: a company I represented called Hat Trick in the UK,

217
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,880
Speaker 1: a very prolific company. It was run by a husband

218
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,160
Speaker 1: and wife team, Jimmy Mulville and Denis so Donohue. And

219
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 1: I called Denise, who had they had gotten divorced. She

220
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 1: was running I TV in house, and I said, Denise,

221
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,240
Speaker 1: I'm in Europe. I'd like to come through the UK.

222
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,160
Speaker 1: Who should I meet? This is my idea. I want

223
00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,839
Speaker 1: a partnership with a company that will let me basically

224
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,520
Speaker 1: do what I want with very little financial constraints, but

225
00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,880
Speaker 1: some financial constraints to, you know, make sure we don't

226
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: take on a ridiculous deficit that we can't recoup. And

227
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 1: I want somebody, I figured, I want somebody with a

228
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,200
Speaker 1: distribution system so that I know that I have a

229
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 1: worldwide distribution system. So she said well, why don't you

230
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: come in and see us. We've been really successful in

231
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,560
Speaker 1: reality television in the US, and it's been very hard

232
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 1: to crack. So we went in and saw them. I

233
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,960
Speaker 1: went and saw them, and they were just the right people.

234
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 1: They put up a lot of money to have this done,

235
00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 1: and they've they have been the greatest partners I've ever had.

236
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,200
Speaker 1: And so if I understand right, I mean, you have

237
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,439
Speaker 1: a lot of flexibility to to negotiate with networks and

238
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 1: and you know, set up projects on your own terms.

239
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,559
Speaker 1: This sounds like the the opposite of what hearing from

240
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 1: so many producers is that they feel boxed in by templates.

241
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,680
Speaker 1: You know, we are constantly here. It's templates and precedents

242
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,120
Speaker 1: and we can't we can't break that. Yeah, to give Martin,

243
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give you some credit right now, because it

244
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 1: was kind of the fundamentals of the deal was you know,

245
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 1: he sort of recognized the chaos in the marketplace, that

246
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: the structure of studio to broadcast was changing, the streamers

247
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 1: were growing. I mean, this was what six years ago now,

248
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 1: and a lot of what he said to I t

249
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,600
Speaker 1: V is you have to you have to give us

250
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 1: agility and the deal making because the revenue streams are

251
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 1: completely collapsing and changing, and so he was very forthright

252
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 1: with them that that was a key component of the

253
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 1: company structure. Um uh and it and it was just

254
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 1: at the right time. I mean, it was kind of

255
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 1: ahead of it by you know, six months to a

256
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,840
Speaker 1: year mhm um be. Obviously, being in business with the

257
00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 1: UK media giant you naturally gave you kind of a

258
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: more global perspective on the business. But but how much

259
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean, how vital would you say it is having

260
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,720
Speaker 1: licensing revenue from overseas to making to making shows of

261
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 1: any kind of scope in the US right now? I

262
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,000
Speaker 1: mean it's it's vital I mean in order because people

263
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 1: don't look for us. It's a joke. My wife will

264
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,720
Speaker 1: always say to me, why can't you make Law and

265
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 1: Order instead of these ten million dollars or whatever they

266
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: are episodes? You know, they're so difficult to make. But

267
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,320
Speaker 1: that's what people want, are these big shows. And you

268
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 1: know they're not going to buy Law and Order for us.

269
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 1: There's people who do that, and it's really it's really

270
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,160
Speaker 1: important to have the foreign I mean too. And the

271
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,480
Speaker 1: funny thing is foreign has changed these days, so you're

272
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 1: not sure what has foreign value. Sometimes you're surprised in that.

273
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: But we do look towards foreign as a important way

274
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,280
Speaker 1: for us to make these shows. But we don't do

275
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: pre sales. I TV has been so good we pick

276
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,040
Speaker 1: up the deficits we need. We don't make any You

277
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 1: have to make any pre sales to in order to

278
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: produce these shows. So obviously international is vital to getting

279
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 1: some production funded. But when you work with a Netflix

280
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 1: or an Amazon, streamers are increasingly wanting all worldwide rights.

281
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 1: They want, you know, they want to buy you out

282
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 1: basically walking in the door. They want to buy out

283
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 1: your rights at least for many many years, if not,

284
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: if not own the content entirely. Have you been able

285
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,160
Speaker 1: to have, you know, find some of that flexibility deal

286
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 1: flexibility in dealing with Netflix? Obviously you did in setting

287
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: up snow Percer. Well, they weren't involved from the beginning.

288
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 1: There's some flexibility with them, you know, it's it's it's

289
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 1: always a hard fight, but you know, being in business

290
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 1: with them is a is a very good thing. Um,

291
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: there are some rights that we can carve out. You know,

292
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 1: they don't have a presence in China, so we kept China. Um,

293
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,159
Speaker 1: you know, there's partnerships on merchandizing, you know so, And

294
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing with Netflix, I don't is that.

295
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: What you really do is, you know, since home runs

296
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,119
Speaker 1: are very rare these days, if you can get a

297
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 1: big enough premium, and because they like what they do,

298
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: they tend to treat us very well. You know, you

299
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 1: basically sit down and present value the money. I mean

300
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,080
Speaker 1: you literally, you know, do you take X amount of

301
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,160
Speaker 1: money now or do you wait six years to do it?

302
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,600
Speaker 1: And you come to a conclusion about you know, what

303
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 1: it is you're getting versus what it would be down

304
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 1: the road, and you know there's a calculation that you

305
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,959
Speaker 1: can use to see if it makes sense to do it.

306
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,040
Speaker 1: Do you see, um, you know, do you see a

307
00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,720
Speaker 1: world where obviously Netflix is facing heightened competition. Do you

308
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 1: see a world where there will be you know, some

309
00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,440
Speaker 1: of the more traditional type of deal element like escalators

310
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,520
Speaker 1: and bonus payments for for certain viewership milestones. Do you

311
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 1: see any give in the in the kind of the

312
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 1: larger business model for streaming that has been you know

313
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 1: that has come in and been so different than the

314
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: broadcast in the in the ad supported cable well For me,

315
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,120
Speaker 1: I always say chaos is good and more competition is good.

316
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 1: So you know, the more competition is the more they

317
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 1: need premium premium, premium programming. You know. I had a

318
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,280
Speaker 1: funny conversation with a chairman of a of a studio

319
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 1: and he said, I don't want to do business with

320
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 1: you because I want to own everything. He said, but

321
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,119
Speaker 1: if you have something I want, then I'll do a

322
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: co pro with you. So the competition is good for us.

323
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,680
Speaker 1: Whether there I think there will be. I think that

324
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,840
Speaker 1: w J negotiation will be important in that area. Um,

325
00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,280
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think for premium quality thing is that

326
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,800
Speaker 1: they that they want, there will be, you know, some

327
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: sort of an adjustment, but remains to be seen. I mean,

328
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned obviously that the kind of the nature back

329
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: end is very much changing. Do you think that the

330
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 1: industry is going to move to more of that up front,

331
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,440
Speaker 1: that kind of cost plus with premiums built in model

332
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,160
Speaker 1: or do you think that we will have the kind

333
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: of still have the mix that we have kind of think.

334
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,760
Speaker 1: I think the industry uh is going to fight it.

335
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,160
Speaker 1: I think it remains to be seen how it how

336
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 1: it comes out. I think, you know, the obviously the

337
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 1: major studios and networks obviously want to pay as little

338
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,199
Speaker 1: as possible and want to grab as many you know,

339
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: rights for as little as possible. But it's you know,

340
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: it's all about competition and leverage and finding the right

341
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 1: I P that's undeniable. I mean, that's the that's where

342
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: we have to differentiate oursel. So we bring that thing

343
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 1: into the chairman who says, okay, yeah, this one, I

344
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,679
Speaker 1: will break my business model because we have to have it.

345
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 1: And let me ask you about I TV. In the

346
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 1: time that you have partnered with them, they've had some

347
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: regime change. Do you feel like they are um, you know,

348
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 1: have you extended your deal with them, are they still

349
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, still as as committed to the to the

350
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,360
Speaker 1: content business as they were under the previous regime? More um,

351
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 1: Carol and the CEO McCaw has been incredibly supportive. When

352
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: we went to them to start this animation company, they

353
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,640
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily get it and I explained it to them

354
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,760
Speaker 1: and they looked at me and said, here's the money,

355
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 1: go go. It's a it's a it's a good idea. No,

356
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:50,880
Speaker 1: they're truly, it's it's actually having been in this business

357
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 1: that long, it's a strange experience. I'm waiting for the

358
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: other shoe to drop, and it doesn't drop. They are

359
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 1: truly the most supportive, creative, most supportive partners we've ever had,

360
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 1: I've ever had in my life. You're amazing. They're they're communicative,

361
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 1: They're transparent, encouraging, racious, intelligent. It's really quite pleasant. And

362
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,640
Speaker 1: we both just extended our deals for five years more.

363
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: Yeah mhm. And you must, I mean you must get

364
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,679
Speaker 1: quite a reception walking into a broadcast network these days

365
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,520
Speaker 1: if you have a project and to say that you

366
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 1: can you can actually, you know, reasonably, I can actually

367
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: come up come into them with some of the money.

368
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 1: That's got to be a very different conversation than most

369
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,719
Speaker 1: every other producer coming in with it, you know, with

370
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: a with a different kind of picture. Yeah, I mean it.

371
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 1: It really does help us there because of the stat

372
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,479
Speaker 1: of the networks and that and the financing and so

373
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 1: it is a real leg up in that regard. You know.

374
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 1: The problem is in the networks are really tightening their

375
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: belt us. I mean, you know, I was shocked when

376
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: they passed on the David Kelly series for financial reasons. Um,

377
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 1: you know, so the networks are a little different because

378
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: they're they're cutting back on what they spend. So yes,

379
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: it's been it's been a good experience for us because

380
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: of bringing in the financing. You ever, we would never

381
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: bring them these projects that we've set up at Netflix

382
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,240
Speaker 1: because we just know they can't manage that economically. Is

383
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: that it sounds like because I P is so important

384
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: to you, it sounds like the scouting process must be

385
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: just finding those properties must be a very big you know,

386
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,160
Speaker 1: must be a big component of your of your day.

387
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: It's it's funny and sad because I've spent and Becky

388
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,120
Speaker 1: spent the last three or four years on airplanes. I mean,

389
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: if we find there's a piece of IP we wanted

390
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: that was in Copenhagen with dr we just got on

391
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: a plane and flew there. It's always better. And this

392
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 1: comes from my agent days. To be in person, in

393
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: front of the in front of the person, because you

394
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 1: make you make that connection. Now we're not able to

395
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: necessarily do that. Although Zoom isn't the worst thing in

396
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: the world, but you know, it's really about being there

397
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: and having the relationship. Japan really taught us there. You really,

398
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, have to be in front of them to

399
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: get the I P. So it's it's been affected a

400
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: little bit, but we literally, if it's a good piece

401
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: of IP, will get on a plane and go anywhere.

402
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 1: M hmm, well, um uh, Marty. As you mentioned obviously

403
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 1: you you came up in the business as an agent. Um.

404
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: It's a it's a heady time right now for the

405
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 1: Hollywood's largest talent agencies. There's a there's a big impass

406
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: going on between the Writer's Guild of America and the

407
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: talent agencies, separating the people you never thought would be separated,

408
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: the town's top showrunners and their agent. There's a big

409
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: w G negotiation going on right now that that will

410
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, it will affect business terms. What do you

411
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: um when you look back at your agent days and

412
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: you look at the business now, what do you think?

413
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 1: What do you think is the cause of all of

414
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: this turmoil? What is the what is the disconnect that

415
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: has made um that has led to this you know

416
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: this just speaking on the writer's situation that has led

417
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: to this this um, you know, this impasse that is

418
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: going on. I think there's a lot of frustration, uh

419
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 1: with the back ends going away, and I think people

420
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 1: are taking a look at what the agencies were making

421
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,240
Speaker 1: off the packages and sort of you know, what they've

422
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: made off of it, and you know, certainly rebelling. You know,

423
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 1: I think it's the writer guild leadership that has sort

424
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: of beat the drum on this and you know, decided

425
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: to take this on. And I think the balance of

426
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: powers shift. To be honest with you, I think that

427
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: the agents, and it's a hard adjustment for them, are

428
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: not in the position they were in the past in

429
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 1: terms of the leverage with the talent. Yeah, I think

430
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: it's much more difficult for an agent to call it

431
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: a studio and say I'm not going to make the

432
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: deal with your client unless you give me a package.

433
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 1: I think that's what they rebelled against a lot, the writers.

434
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 1: And you think, would you check that up to just

435
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: consolidation among the big media players. Yeah, I think that

436
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: has a big part of it. I would say, for me,

437
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: one thing that you know, kind of going back to

438
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: our idea of when we partner with writers, were very transparent.

439
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: So we will when we get the budget in, we

440
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: will go to the writer and say, take a look

441
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: at this, this is what we're going to adjust, and like,

442
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: does that feel right to you? Based on the conversations

443
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: we've had in uh in creating the series, and I

444
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: think there's something when they start looking at what's coming

445
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: out of their budget and what is there which are

446
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: kind of the invisible costs that are just part of

447
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: the negotiation and all of it. It was a bit

448
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: of a wake up call. I think there's something, you know,

449
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: because for for the many years that I was working

450
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: with bigger studios, even they don't when you're just a producer,

451
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily get the budget, so you don't really know,

452
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: um how the costs are a lotted and I know,

453
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: for for me in the last six years, because we

454
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: do that, you can tell that there's not a lot

455
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: of you know, these create the show runners don't have

456
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: a lot of involvement or experience with budgets. We're in

457
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: the position of really nobody has delivered us delivers us projects.

458
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: We chase them. We're not like a production company that

459
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: waits around for an agent or an agency or some

460
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: of someone else to bring us the i P that

461
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: we need. We actively chase it. And everybody's encouraged to

462
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: look all over the world and we try to stay

463
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: one step ahead. Japan was one step ahead. We're looking

464
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: at other countries as everybody else's, but it's no one

465
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 1: gives us a certain amount of power in terms of

466
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: hiring writers, and that not being blocked by any agency

467
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: we're not represented by, you know, so it changes the

468
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: dynamic for us. Now has been interesting too because we

469
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: have a lot of agent friends and they're always very

470
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 1: supportive and because of this moment in time between the

471
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: guild and the agencies, I get a lot of well,

472
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: let me just send you that person's email, and so

473
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: the there isn't that layer in between. And I mean,

474
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: once you established that relationship with the writer, you know,

475
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 1: who doesn't love a call that says I'm such a

476
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: fan of what you do. Can we figure out a

477
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: way to work together. So it's really and that's that's

478
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: what we love, you know, just the right relationships. So

479
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: it's we are We've had a lot of zoom calls

480
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: with people that we maybe would not have had should

481
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 1: those relationships be in a different place. And so it's

482
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,959
Speaker 1: been there's been a little bit of an advantage for

483
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: us party. Do you see do you see major changes

484
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 1: for the big agencies coming to see more consolidation. Do

485
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: you see an effort to maybe focus more on the

486
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: fundamentals of agencies rather than than the expansion that we've

487
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: seen at some shops in the last few years. It's

488
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: fascinating because I think in this environment that they'll be

489
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: some small agencies, that they'll that people will break off

490
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: and start some small agencies and be very pro for

491
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: their clients instead of themselves. You know. I think you'll

492
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: see like another broader curling web come up. I think

493
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: Verve is doing well. Um. I think that there will

494
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: be some shifts, you know, because of what's going on

495
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: with the writers and what's going on with the studios

496
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: and stuff, and they're trying to grab for more rights

497
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: and more sort of power in the dynamic. We've had

498
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: some impressive management relationships, relationships with managers that have grown. Um.

499
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: There are a lot of very impressive young literary managers

500
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: out there who we kind of align creatively, so we've

501
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: gotten that's been interesting too. It is a big moment

502
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: of transition for this business. I love it. It's been

503
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's been really really good. And I have

504
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: to mention we're very lucky because our group that works

505
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: with us are really really smart and one of the

506
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: things I developed as an agent is developing people in

507
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: the house. And when you have people growth in five

508
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: years now and when you have people you know like

509
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: Nick Louie and Alyssa Bochner in that, hey, they grow

510
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: up and we tend to be you know, more in

511
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,479
Speaker 1: line and we encourage them to also go off and

512
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: bring us things, you know, bring us what they love

513
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: and it just growing internally is really an important thing.

514
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: How many people in tomorrow studios to uh right now

515
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 1: ten Loven, Yeah, and the animation we're starting to build up,

516
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: you know, so we've expanded our offices and that. But

517
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: it's been a very organic growth. You know. It's really

518
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: businesses that are complementary to our main business. You know. Um,

519
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: we sort of say to them like you were an

520
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: independent producer, like think we're all producers. So think about

521
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: what in your heart and mind do you want to

522
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: put on television and let us I'll figure out how

523
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: to do that. Really trying to encourage that that creative

524
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: side just go for it. There's nothing we can't try

525
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: to do. We take some really big swings. We don't

526
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: always hit the ball, but we try. Oh my god,

527
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: absolutely well. It's been fascinating talking with you. I really

528
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: appreciate taking the time to kind of parse the landscape

529
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: and good luck with snow Piercer at long last. I

530
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: know it's been it's been a long road and I

531
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,239
Speaker 1: can sense the passion that you both have for it.

532
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time. Thank you so much, Cynthia. Good

533
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: to talk to you. Always a pleasure of Cynthia. Do well, Bhi,

534
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: thank you by thanks for listening. Be sure to tune

535
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: in next week when Strictly Business will feature Bob Greenblatt,

536
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 1: chairman of Warner Media Entertainment and Direct a Consumer, talking

537
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: about the birth of HBO. Matt X