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Speaker 1: Okay you ready. Oh yes, Um, this month's theme is metamorphosis. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so it's so interesting that we picked that word. Then,

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Speaker 1: you know, we live in Tennessee, and so the big

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Speaker 1: theme around here these days is all this conversation about

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Speaker 1: banning drag queens, and um, there's a lot of weird

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Speaker 1: stuff going on. I don't even know, it's so weird,

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Speaker 1: But so of course we think of any sort of

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Speaker 1: drag queen to me is like a major metamorphosis, right.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's literally two different existences almost. It's like

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Speaker 1: a character that's a characters fantasy. I actually worked with

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Speaker 1: a drag queen one time who had won or had

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Speaker 1: been on Rue Paul's drag race. Oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 1: wish I could remember. I think his name was Princess,

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Speaker 1: and he was in a Jack White video that I

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Speaker 1: worked with the sweetest, like a most amazing human, and

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Speaker 1: he actually taught me so much about makeup, like drag

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Speaker 1: queens know their shit. It is wild. It is so

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Speaker 1: My friend Gabriel, who I lived within Los Angeles, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember if he started when I was still

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Speaker 1: living there, if it was something that he picked up

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Speaker 1: after I left, but he started, he got like really

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Speaker 1: obsessed with drag makeup and he it was just like

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Speaker 1: an exploration thing and an art form to him, and

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Speaker 1: he was like his goal. He was never had a

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Speaker 1: goal of even wanting to be a drag like a

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Speaker 1: performing drag queen right in the beginning. I mean he's

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Speaker 1: not performed a little bit, but it's not what he does.

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Speaker 1: He's a photographer by trade, and he occasionally will go

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Speaker 1: out in la and like perform, but it's not what

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Speaker 1: he does. And it is crazy to watch the videos

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Speaker 1: that he puts up and the stuff that he's just

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Speaker 1: taught himself by watching YouTube videos and talking with other

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Speaker 1: people that are doing the art form, and I mean

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Speaker 1: it's it's wild. And his is like his drag name

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Speaker 1: is just his name is Gabriel, and he's just Gabriel

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Speaker 1: the Queen. Like yeah, he's like, I'm not a woman,

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Speaker 1: I'm a man in makeup and address right, he has

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Speaker 1: a beard and it's like a bearded queen. But I

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Speaker 1: mean it's super over the top, really colorful, really extreme

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Speaker 1: eye stuff with massive like eyelashes. Yeah, it's so insanely

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Speaker 1: cartoon exactly. But to me, that's where it becomes it's

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Speaker 1: just like a creative expression because it's not like anything

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Speaker 1: that's like a very everyday look. Yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's like Barney's not a real fucking dinosaur, you know, Like,

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Speaker 1: what are the Teletubbies, Like it's a weird what's the

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Speaker 1: teenage mutant ninja turtles? You know? Those are those are

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Speaker 1: adults dressed up in weird costumes too. This is true

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Speaker 1: and actually way more creepy if yes, have you ever

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Speaker 1: been in a Hollywood boulevard? Shit, you're lucky if they

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Speaker 1: don't slip some crack into your pocket. Right, So here's

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Speaker 1: our big debate. Uh, this is not a political podcast.

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Speaker 1: And I said to you, like, I've really like I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about these topics and obviously with our

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Speaker 1: word as a metamorphosis, how do we not talk about

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Speaker 1: this topic? Like you were like, I don't know, this

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Speaker 1: is a pop culture week. This is the most relevant

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Speaker 1: thing that we can talk They talked, Yeah, it's national news,

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Speaker 1: it's everywhere. It's happening in our backyard, like and it

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Speaker 1: will later fall into other states like is this is

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Speaker 1: just the tip of the iceberg? But we don't want

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Speaker 1: to sit here and try to beat our like political

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Speaker 1: thoughts or like have that argument. The reason I say

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Speaker 1: that is because, like I posted about this on my Instagram,

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Speaker 1: everything is so divisive right now, and it is so

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Speaker 1: fucking exhausting to me. Like I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: be a part of contributing to just the argument, to

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Speaker 1: contribute to the argument for argument's sake, Like if I

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Speaker 1: have a point, cool, If I have my own beliefs, yes, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: But like I don't want to just like keep maximizing

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Speaker 1: the anger and the like, well you said this and

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Speaker 1: you're a hypocrite or whatever. To me, that's not helping

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Speaker 1: any problems. What I do like to do is to

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Speaker 1: like show humanity and show connectedness and also like ask

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Speaker 1: ourselves the hard questions, like why do I believe what

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Speaker 1: I believe? Why am I scared of this certain thing?

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Speaker 1: Why do I just like make judgments about something I

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Speaker 1: know absolutely nothing about, Like those kind of things are

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Speaker 1: the point to me, And so if we can help

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Speaker 1: with any part of that, And also like we're asking

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Speaker 1: ourselves these questions, and so I think that's our point

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Speaker 1: here is not to be like you're wrong, we're right,

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Speaker 1: We're wrong, you're right. It's more like, hey, like do

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Speaker 1: we even really know what's happening here? Like why are

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Speaker 1: we just letting the government dictate anything that we're thinking?

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Speaker 1: Like I think the point is is like we want

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Speaker 1: to try and look at this from a human level,

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Speaker 1: because it does like when politics gets involved in these things,

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Speaker 1: like there are real life consequences for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and when as a society we allow these things to

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Speaker 1: happen from a governmental standpoint, like it opens the door

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Speaker 1: for like things to get worse, them to infringe on

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Speaker 1: other things. Like the reason why I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about it is like it is kind of ludicrous to me,

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Speaker 1: Like this is a problem that didn't exist. They got

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Speaker 1: turned into a problem. And I think that's why it

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Speaker 1: is part of like the national discourse because and like

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Speaker 1: being talked about on SNL like to have our governor

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Speaker 1: sign a bill that you know, essentially drags public performance

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Speaker 1: of drag queens or any sort of adult performance. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what is that going to mean when Harry Styles shows

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Speaker 1: up and wears a dress at Bridgetown? What does it

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Speaker 1: mean for the cheerleaders at Titans games? Like all of

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Speaker 1: these things are somewhat sexualized, you know, like that's pop

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Speaker 1: Like it's just pop art, but um, and then to

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Speaker 1: have the discovery of him dressed in drag in his

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Speaker 1: high school yearbook in Tennessee, Like, the hypocrisy of it

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Speaker 1: is just funny to me. And I think that's why

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Speaker 1: it has like made it to the national level because

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Speaker 1: we're all just like wait, excuse me, Like, but what's

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Speaker 1: the problem here? Like these are clothes and also where

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Speaker 1: where is the problem? Like you said, like, where are

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Speaker 1: we harming people? The thing is is RuPaul's got a

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Speaker 1: really famous quote. It's been floating around and it's like,

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Speaker 1: we are all born neck, we are all born naked.

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Speaker 1: The rest is all drag because it literally is so

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Speaker 1: off that we are putting on our bodies. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: shouldn't define a single thing about us and it and

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Speaker 1: it brings up this whole and like again not to

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Speaker 1: get political, but like the gender conversation and the gender

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Speaker 1: fluidity thing that I think confuses a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and understandably because it's a new concept. But when you

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Speaker 1: think about the fact that like this piece of cloth

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Speaker 1: is for boys and this piece of cloth is for girls,

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Speaker 1: that is not something that was fact. That was something

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Speaker 1: that we as humans decided was a thing and why

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Speaker 1: and who like preachers, preachers wear gowns, um Scottish men

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Speaker 1: wear kilts, Yeah, like they're they're Why even have to

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Speaker 1: put a label on men and women clothing? It's just

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Speaker 1: like it's just clothes, and now it's being legislated that,

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Speaker 1: like a man can't wear makeup and can't wear a dress.

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Speaker 1: You said, why why do we have to like do that?

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Speaker 1: Why do we whatever? And all that I hear in

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Speaker 1: any sort of regulation around any of it is fear.

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Speaker 1: It's like we as humans have this natural inclination to

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Speaker 1: have fear around something we don't know anything about, and

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Speaker 1: so like the reaction to be scared of something you

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Speaker 1: don't know anything about is a totally normal human emotion. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: The thing that we can do for that, though, is

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Speaker 1: like learn about it and like, go, is this irrational

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Speaker 1: fear or is this like completely just because I've never

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Speaker 1: been taught this And I went to a school where

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Speaker 1: everyone looked exactly like me, and I was, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of sheltered, and I was taught yeah that men

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Speaker 1: or women. I mean, it's small town, it's whatever. I

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Speaker 1: lived in a big town, but I was like sheltered

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, and everyone that I went

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Speaker 1: to school with looked exactly like me and acted like me,

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Speaker 1: And so when I left, it was like this huge

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Speaker 1: cultural thing for me to be like, oh, there's so

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Speaker 1: much more and there are moments in that that are scary, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

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Speaker 1: And I think when you live that way, you miss

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Speaker 1: so many amazing opportunities because one, we're all so connected

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Speaker 1: and like there's a lesson in everything. We talked about

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Speaker 1: this when we talked to Candace Horback, the former porn star,

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Speaker 1: Like I loved our conversation with her. I actually loved

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Speaker 1: her energy, Like I want to hang out with her.

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Speaker 1: She's sucking awesome. And if you had told me twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago that, oh, you'll meet a porn star and

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Speaker 1: want to be I would have had a judgment about that, right,

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Speaker 1: Like if you would have told me, I mean probably

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Speaker 1: even less than that, because porn has negatively affected my

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Speaker 1: life and some of my relationships, I would have had

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Speaker 1: a major fear around it. But this was like the

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Speaker 1: perfect example to me of some situation where I'm It

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Speaker 1: was like a huge conversation because I saw the ways

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Speaker 1: that Candice and I are exactly alike and like, actually

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Speaker 1: we really have a lot in comment. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's the point is like it takes the fear out

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Speaker 1: of it then, and I can let someone else go

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Speaker 1: on their journey and not be threatened by it or

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Speaker 1: feel like they have to be exactly like me for

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Speaker 1: me to be safe. She can go on her journey.

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Speaker 1: She's allowed, right, Like anyway, I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: really interesting point. We were talking before the podcast and

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Speaker 1: you said, oh my god, I used to be scared

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Speaker 1: of drag queens, and so I want you to talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about that because I think, like as

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Speaker 1: a gay man, a lot of people probably make the

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Speaker 1: assumption that you would be all gung ho and just

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Speaker 1: like everyone lived the way that you know whatever, and

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Speaker 1: you had a different experience. So we can tell a

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Speaker 1: little bit about that journey. I can remember, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was out, but I wasn't like truly living my

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Speaker 1: truest self and out being super gay, you know, like

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Speaker 1: not that I'm even that now and what does that

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Speaker 1: even mean? But I'm a lot more open about it now,

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Speaker 1: but I you know, drag queens used to freak me out.

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Speaker 1: I've got this like a fear of clowns, and especially

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Speaker 1: like real life clowns. They like freaked me out a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and I sort of equated it to be

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Speaker 1: the sort of same thing. And I think some of

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Speaker 1: it was just like you know, ingrained homophobia that you know,

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Speaker 1: I was harboring because I would hate myself at that time.

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Speaker 1: And and now that like it has become so much

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Speaker 1: more mainstream, the art of it is so much more

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Speaker 1: obvious to me. I mean it is the level of

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Speaker 1: commitment and art and design and rehearsal and all of

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Speaker 1: the things that goes into these performances is unreal to me.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, I mean, I would never It's not

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Speaker 1: something that I would ever choose to do. But I

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Speaker 1: can recognize and I can go have fun. But I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I know people that just fuck it. They will go

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Speaker 1: see drag shows every night. That's what they love to do.

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Speaker 1: That's not me. I don't have a fear of it,

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Speaker 1: but I do think it's important for me to look

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Speaker 1: back and be like that fear was created because of

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Speaker 1: the other things that people were putting onto me, and

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Speaker 1: I was scared for my own safety. And if I

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Speaker 1: said I like drag queens, then I would feel unsafe.

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Speaker 1: And I think what's important in this argument is, you know,

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Speaker 1: it is perfectly natural to be scared of things, like

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Speaker 1: it is something that like as human beings, it's what

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Speaker 1: keeps us safe when we recognize a danger. But we

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Speaker 1: also have to be discerning, and we also have to

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Speaker 1: be human. And if we allow politicians to use fear

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Speaker 1: to control us, we are all fucking losing. If you

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Speaker 1: go into a situation such as a drag show and

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Speaker 1: it makes you uncomfortable, that's okay, be uncomfortable with it,

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Speaker 1: don't go to another drag show. But you should also

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Speaker 1: be open to going into a dragon show and being like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's not so bad, Like that was kind of fun, right.

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Speaker 1: Don't let someone tell you that something is bad for

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Speaker 1: you unless it is physically you could, you know, be

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Speaker 1: harmed by it, Like playing chicken with your cars is

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Speaker 1: not a good idea to do, Like believe someone when

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Speaker 1: they say that, but like something as innocent as an

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Speaker 1: art form. I think it is insanity that we are

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Speaker 1: letting people dictate what is truly something to fear and

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Speaker 1: what's not. Like there's there are zero instances of people

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Speaker 1: being hurt by drag and it's just a To me,

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Speaker 1: it's a smoke and mirrors thing, particularly in our state,

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Speaker 1: where like you know, there's a laundry list of things

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Speaker 1: that they're not addressing, like the amount of children living

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Speaker 1: in poverty. How like were we rank like forty six

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Speaker 1: in education in the United States. We homelessness is really

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Speaker 1: bad in our state, Like it is, our state's a mess,

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Speaker 1: and this is what they're spending their time on. So

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Speaker 1: to me, I just think as human beings, we need

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Speaker 1: to expect our politicians to do better and care about

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Speaker 1: real things and the like, at least the drag community,

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Speaker 1: the gay community. There is so much humor and stuff

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Speaker 1: that's coming out of this that I'm hoping that that

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Speaker 1: light will like sort of overshadow the darkness, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I hope that like people, allies can get behind

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Speaker 1: this and just be like this is this is a

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Speaker 1: silly target. So well, my big thing is, like I

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Speaker 1: what I don't like that's happening is like it feels

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing like for women. It feels like

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Speaker 1: we're like one step forward ten steps back, And it's

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Speaker 1: really frustrating because I don't feel comfortable telling anyone else

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Speaker 1: that the way that they are is not okay, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: who the fuck am I to be? Like you were

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Speaker 1: born this way, this is your interest, and that is

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Speaker 1: not okay in this country or in this world or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't think that any of us or have

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Speaker 1: the right to do that. And so the fact that

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Speaker 1: anyone is feeling shamed or like less than like what

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Speaker 1: you just said, you were uncomfortable with your own homosexuality,

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Speaker 1: that is so fucking sad to me. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think I really grasped how sad that is until the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years of just like you know, watching

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Speaker 1: just these battles of like just trying to fight for

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Speaker 1: basic human rights, like that is not okay, right, And

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Speaker 1: so that's the part that really sticks out to me,

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Speaker 1: And what I'm like, why are we doing this again

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Speaker 1: to someone just creatively expressing themselves? Like I creatively expressed

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Speaker 1: myself all the fucking time, And you know what, sometimes

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Speaker 1: people tell me it's not okay too, And then I'm

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Speaker 1: like getting to this place now where I'm like, but

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Speaker 1: it's who I am, and it's what makes me feel

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Speaker 1: good and I have to do it, and so I think,

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Speaker 1: and it's not harming anybody, definitely not harming anybody, but

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Speaker 1: but I think it takes it's a lot of a

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Speaker 1: daily battle for me to do that, and that's my journey.

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Speaker 1: I just don't see where like if a law told

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Speaker 1: me you can't go be in Kitmore's music video, because

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Speaker 1: that like what the fuck? Like what am I doing

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Speaker 1: to harm anyone with that? I'm just living my life

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Speaker 1: So and that was creative expression for me. So there

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Speaker 1: you go. But like the whole point I think we're

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Speaker 1: trying to make with anything that we address politically is

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Speaker 1: just like it has become very blatantly obvious to us.

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Speaker 1: And this goes on any sort of political argument. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I think this is both sides that a lot of

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Speaker 1: times politicians are using fear and they're tapping into our

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Speaker 1: fears to just get votes. Like do we really think

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Speaker 1: Billy even gives a shit about this? Probably not, probably not.

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Speaker 1: But it's like a way to incite like more fear

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Speaker 1: in people and be like this is a real issue

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Speaker 1: and it's it's actually not, or like or ask yourself

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Speaker 1: is it really something like and if you're scared of it,

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Speaker 1: like why is it just because you didn't grow up

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Speaker 1: around it? Is it because you've never seen or met

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Speaker 1: a drag queen like those kind of things. Like we're

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Speaker 1: actually working on, you know, trying to have like a

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Speaker 1: conversation with someone to bring more actual facts to this,

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Speaker 1: but humanity to it. But to see the humanity that's

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Speaker 1: the point, right right. Yeah, it's a it's just a

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Speaker 1: weird thing to me because it's, um, I've tried not

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Speaker 1: to be very political on my social media, but it's

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Speaker 1: like the ridiculousness of it all has got me like

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Speaker 1: sharing shit. Yeah. I ordered a shirt yesterday that says

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Speaker 1: Bill Lee is a drag and it's a picture of

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Speaker 1: him in a drag. And I think people wild with

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Speaker 1: that one because it's like, yeah, and now there's another

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Speaker 1: example in our state where the lieutenant governor was seen

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Speaker 1: commenting on like an openly gay man's post like with

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Speaker 1: like fire and heart emojis and telling him to like

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Speaker 1: keep dancing and you should be on Dancing with the Stars.

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Speaker 1: It's so wild. I understand. He did not deny it.

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Speaker 1: He did not say it was hacked. He basically said

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Speaker 1: he likes to know us constituents and communicate with them,

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Speaker 1: but he's voting against but he's voting very anti LGBTQ. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. Yeah, it's so wild, Like I don't get

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Speaker 1: the logic there, but that gets it's a very fine

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Speaker 1: line to walk here, and I think, like we're just

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Speaker 1: doing our best too, so give us some grace with that.

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Speaker 1: But I just I don't know my whole like point

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Speaker 1: of this podcast, and what I'm learning with every conversation

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Speaker 1: that we have is most of the time, when I'm

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Speaker 1: scared of something, it's because I'm not in control or

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not in control and I just

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily like know about it. And those are very

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Speaker 1: human reactions, but like those are things we can work

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Speaker 1: through too. Look, and I so want to back up

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Speaker 1: just a sec like this is like the things that

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Speaker 1: we're saying aren't a blanket permission to do whatever the

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Speaker 1: fuck you want. Like you can't go out and murder

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Speaker 1: people and steal and do harm truly harmful things. And

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Speaker 1: I think that we know, like there has to be

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Speaker 1: a very clear line between what you think is morally

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Speaker 1: okay and what you think is legally okay, because legally,

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Speaker 1: like you can't be breaking laws and hurting people and

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Speaker 1: doing that sort of thing. Being a drag queen is

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Speaker 1: shouldn't There shouldn't be a legal line to that unless

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Speaker 1: you're like whipping your dick out in your show and

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Speaker 1: being completely obscene. If you're using adult language in an

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Speaker 1: adult space, fine, that's entertainment. And I don't disagree. It's like,

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Speaker 1: if drag queens are going to be in very public spaces,

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Speaker 1: they need to curb their performances to fit that space. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just like you wouldn't have a wet t shirt contest

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Speaker 1: at the Pride either, you know, and I do think

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Speaker 1: that is an important distinction. But to say that they're

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Speaker 1: not even allowed there is fucked well, because where does

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Speaker 1: it stop. Yeah, before we started the podcast, I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm just getting really fed up with like trying to

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Speaker 1: make moral issues legal issues, because they're not. Like everyone

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Speaker 1: is entitled to their own opinion and their own religion

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Speaker 1: even and like the way that we're going with this

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Speaker 1: right now feels to me like we're trying to make

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Speaker 1: people or what's being asked if people is believe in

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Speaker 1: the same things in all capacities, whether that's religious, whether

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Speaker 1: that's a god, whether that's whatever, and we don't live

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Speaker 1: in a country like that, and that's like the beauty

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Speaker 1: of our country. But it gets scary. That gets scary

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Speaker 1: to me to be like you're going to be forced

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Speaker 1: to believe this or whatever or act this way, Like

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Speaker 1: to say that this morality that this one person believes

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Speaker 1: in is going to be a law that I have

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Speaker 1: to follow even if I don't believe that. That doesn't right.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It's tough though, because I can hear

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Speaker 1: the arguments now, I can hear them too, And I

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Speaker 1: keep thinking about this thing when I read that, Like

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Speaker 1: it said something like Jesus who hung out with like

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Speaker 1: the lepers and the hookers and all the things, Like

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Speaker 1: the fact that the Christian right has turned him into

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Speaker 1: this like gun toting pro America like force is literally

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Speaker 1: the biggest about face in the history of humanity. Like

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Speaker 1: Jesus would not have like he stood for love and

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Speaker 1: acceptance of everybody and um. And to like sort of

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Speaker 1: legislate on these false pretenses of what Jesus believed in

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Speaker 1: is crazy. It's all human interpretation of that too, just

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Speaker 1: scary to me. Yeah, Anyway, the whole point we're trying

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Speaker 1: to make here is like to ask yourself the questions,

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Speaker 1: why are you scared of this um to bring the humanity,

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Speaker 1: peace to it and to remember that like it's okay.

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Speaker 1: If people are different from us, that doesn't mean they're bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think it's it's incumbent on all of

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Speaker 1: us to like, um, tapp into our own curiosities and

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Speaker 1: if there is fear there, to face that fear. Incumbent somebody?

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Speaker 1: Is that the word of the day. I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: I don't even know what it means. Responsibility, responsibility, That's

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Speaker 1: what I gathered from this sentence. But hopefully I used

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Speaker 1: that word right, because an incumbent is also someone that

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Speaker 1: um like, if someone's running for office, the person who's

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Speaker 1: already in office is the incumbent candidate? Well, you're asking

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Speaker 1: you to I would believe used it correctly. English cyclhige

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Speaker 1: is weird because we can have the same word means

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Speaker 1: two very different things. Yeah, there's a lot of those. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we want to know what you guys think on this topic. Um,

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Speaker 1: you can email us at the Edge at Velvet's Edge

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Speaker 1: dot com on Insta. I am at Velvet's Edge, Chip,

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Speaker 1: I'm at Chip DOORSHP, dr sh as DEAs and drag.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, that's your new ye. Actually you do have

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Speaker 1: that running leg Oh my god, I've got a whole

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Speaker 1: list of them. I can't give them away now though,

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Speaker 1: because someone will still want to. They'll they'll make my list.

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Speaker 1: Illegal has been as long as I know him, making

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Speaker 1: a list of like really funny drag names. And they

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Speaker 1: all have these really different personalities. You've never done anything

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Speaker 1: with any of them. Never, it's just ideas. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll dress somebody up as one of them. Right, we

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Speaker 1: should all be one of them for Halloween? Oh my god?

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Speaker 1: What is? And sorry guys. All right, as you guys

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Speaker 1: go into the weekend, I hope you're leving on some

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00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,439
Speaker 1: people and just remembering that, um, you can live on

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Speaker 1: the edge and always remember David, I was so close. Casual. Casual, y'all? Okay,

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Speaker 1: By the