WEBVTT - Ep 114: Kyle Wagner 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:05.560 We get so wrapped up in early success and we 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.000 want to applaud it, we want to elevate it, and 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.719 then we question why parents chase them. They chase it 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.000 because we hold it in the highest esteem. And if 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.159 we really want to play the long game, if we 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:18.400 really want to grow our athletes and we want to 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.000 give them skills and develop them, sometimes we have to 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.919 really challenge ourselves as to why is it that we 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.160 celebrate this early success. 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.639 This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.919 healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.879 education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:41.840 Reform Sports Podcast. My guest today is Kyle Wagner, teacher, coach, 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.960 founder of Go Wags Baseball, author and sports parent. A 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.159 former Wake Forest baseball player, Kyle is coach players of 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.720 all ages from grade school through college, including forty Division 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:55.960 one athletes and three first round draft picks. He's the 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.920 author of How the Rivercats Won, lessons on relationships and competition, 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.000 as well as green Light hitting from the backyards to 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.720 the big leagues. Kyle and I discussed his belief in 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.200 student advocacy, his skepticism to define a person by one 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.880 metric and the three things that create a fear based 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:17.360 mindset and athletes. I have another phenomenal guest. I've been 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.040 following this dude for a few years. Few years. We've 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.880 had a couple of conversations, some good interaction on Twitter 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:28.520 in particular now known as X twenty twenty four. But man, 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:30.679 I'm super pumped to have him. He is very forward 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:32.080 thinking and I love it. 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:32.280 Man. 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.440 He calls himself a student advocate. He's a teacher, he's 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.520 a coach. He's a former absolute stud baseball player, a father, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.400 sports parent, all the above. My man, Kyle Wagner, coach Wax, 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:43.800 thanks so much for hopping on man. 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.800 Oh, it's an honor. I'm privilegit. I'm looking forward to Yeah. 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:49.400 And here's where I want to start with you, Man. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:52.080 I love your content. I think you would have been 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.400 my favorite teacher in high school based off of all 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.120 the stuff I see you say. You call yourself a 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.360 student advocate. You put out a recent tweet that I 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:03.760 thought was very interesting, and I actually had the experience 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:06.240 with a couple of professors like this in college. A 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:08.600 student was asking you, why are you giving us the 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.360 questions to the exam you know before the exam, and 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:14.919 your response on the tweet was, well, because I'd rather 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.600 you know the information than me punished for not knowing it. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:19.720 What is that about? What does it mean for you 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:21.840 to be a student advocate? And why the hell are 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.280 you not concerned with grades? Why do you think grades 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:26.040 are not a reflection of a kid's intellect? 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.520 Oh boy, yeah, you've been following me to know that 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.240 those are touchy subjects for me. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:36.360 I just I'm skeptical of anyone. 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:39.520 Metric to define a person. And it's not just true 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.639 in school, it's true everywhere. I mean with respect to baseball, 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.160 everyone knows that, you know, batting average doesn't define an athlete, 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:50.080 and slugging or and earned run average. And I even 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.480 think that my body mass index would qualify me as obese, right, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:55.799 And so that's another one. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:57.680 And so the idea of the. 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:03.520 Great thing judging our students I'm really sensitive to. And 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.760 so you know, when when it comes down to it, 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.799 I would rather teach them than judge them. I have 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:15.400 done so much research on how that judgment component is flawed. 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.520 And ultimately, when we sit down and we make an 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:21.720 assessment of a student, I think we have to as 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:26.520 teachers recognize that we are flawed, we are biased, we 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.840 design the questions we judge them. I actually just spend 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:36.120 today talking about Daniel Pink's research when and he gets 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.120 into the idea of that, you know, the time of 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.800 day impacts how we assess people, and so that that 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.000 tweet that you're referencing, I just think, ultimately, with all 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.800 the hats that teachers, where the most important one is educator. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:54.920 And educator means I need to give you information and 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.120 I'm constantly trying to communicate that that. I try to 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.560 extend the time horizon as long as so you know, 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.800 if I judge you on a Wednesday, but you forget 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.320 it on a Thursday, have I done my job? And 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:11.000 that's sort of playing the long game says ultimately, what 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:14.360 our job as an educator is is to inspire them 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.640 and educate them. And so that's why I share that 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.400 and I reflect on it often, and that's that's where 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.080 I've landed twenty five years into this profession. If I'm 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.400 if I'm going to choose between teaching and judging, I 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:27.360 will choose teaching. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.599 Every time you just mentioned the long game, and I 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.600 know that's something obviously you're passionate about I know you're 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:33.960 an author as well. I talk about it a lot, 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.040 and you're someone who's doing it firsthand. Huge correlation between 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.760 coaching teaching. Jim Calhoun, who I had on obviously a legend, 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.920 and even Tim Corbin they talk about being teachers in sport. Right, 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:51.160 So how do we formulate considering our entire ecosystem, whether 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:54.760 it be academia or athletics, particularly at the youth level. 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.839 It's all based on performance, right. There's winners, there's losers, 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:02.359 there's scoreboards, there's acceptance into universities. I'm going through this 0:05:02.480 --> 0:05:05.760 right now with my second oldest. So how do we 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.200 curtail that and when we're teaching or coaching keep the 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.680 perspective of, you know, the individual, while still trying to 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.320 help them. Tim Corbin send to me, everyone runs their 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.599 own race? Is that? Is that what we're talking about? Yeah? 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.839 I did a I put a video out the other day. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.920 I you know, I think there are three things that 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.840 really create a fear based mindset in athletes. It's comparisons, 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.719 It's outcomes, and it's deadlines. And you know, every coach 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.120 knows that, you know, you could get the greatest buy 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.760 in with your athletes and then the minute you post 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.640 a lineup, now now you've you've created a comparison, and 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.839 that that can be challenging, and immediately you've got this 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:51.600 judgment of running through the program. Uh, and it's undeniable, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.200 like every coach eventually has to do it, and and 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.280 that can fracture culture if if you're not communicating that 0:05:58.360 --> 0:05:59.760 message and how every. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:00.880 Coach works his lineup. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.400 But what I would argue is I would say that 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:08.080 so often we create these deadlines and we get outcome 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.080 based when we don't have to create deadlines and become 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:11.880 outcome based. 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:12.080 Right. 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:14.560 So, yeah, I'm a big fan. I have three hashtags 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.559 that I love it. It's run your race, no finish 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.919 lines and top with carry water, And those are the 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.719 three that I think that if I embrace and I 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.400 can communicate to my athletes, then we can live in 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.480 this love based reality. And I know that might sound 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.440 a little touchy feely, but I really think it's important. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.040 And in twenty twenty four, it does feel like this 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.240 relationship model is at the forefront. 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.800 It's pushing away this this. 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:47.000 Social Darwinism, survival of the fittest when it all costs. 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.080 I think it's it's pushing that aside, and I think 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.080 it's recognizing that this love based reality is the way 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.159 to go. So when I hear run your race, that 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.799 gets me fired up. No finish lines, right, lifelong learner 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:03.479 that idea. And then the chopboy cherry water is you know, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.000 don't don't swallow the praise because you'll swallow the poison. 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.360 Try to interpret feedback as feedback. Keep it neutral, don't 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.880 get don't get wrapped up in wins and losses, just 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:13.760 keep just keep moving forward. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.160 You played ball at Wake Forest, Am I right about that? 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:16.800 Yes? 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.760 All right, So so you played at an extremely high level. 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.520 Now that Wake Forest I played at wasn't the Wake 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:23.880 Forest that currently exists. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:27.000 Like we we were middle of the road. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.120 Acc we were good. I don't want to I don't 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.600 want to disparage my time there. But certainly Wake has 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.600 a vault into a power power program. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:37.440 Sure, but obviously still acc you know the quote unquote 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:39.560 power five. You're playing at the highest level of collegiate 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.840 athletics at the time and still is. But what I'm 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:45.080 going with that is you have the perspective of you know, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.600 a lot of sports parents, youth sports parents, will listen 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.520 to this. Obviously, coaches as well. You have the perspective 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.600 of coach, former high level athlete. You're a sports parent 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.080 as well, so so as a sports parent listened to this. 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:57.960 Who may not be in form right, they don't have 0:07:58.040 --> 0:07:59.840 the same person, They didn't play in the acc they 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:01.760 don't coach, they don't teach, they haven't been in the 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:05.040 classroom for twenty five years. Hypothetically, I'm a thirty five 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.400 year old parent. My kids are just entering the youth 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:11.040 sports ecosystem where everything's based on performance. How do we 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:15.240 not get sucked into, you know, results driven with very 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.360 little you know, background to be able to formulate or 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.280 kind of go in there with any shield. Right, It's 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.000 almost like at times you could be going into a 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.360 war with no protection. It's I mean, I mean a 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.600 little you know, might bee being a little extreme, but 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.120 it could feel like that and a little overwhelming. How 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.080 do we prepare ourselves as young parents who may not 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:33.199 have the background, you know? 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.240 One of the things I call into question a lot 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:37.000 is what you'll hear people say you got to compete 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:41.240 at everything you do. And although that might be true 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:43.680 on some levels, like when you become a parent. If 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.240 you engage in a competitive mindset, you're going to find 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.199 yourself fighting on the sidelines. You're going to find yourself, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.240 you know, valuing wins more than they should. Because if 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.520 we're competing at everything we do, we need to win. 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.000 We need to win this this nine you baseball game. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.640 And the one thing that I think often gets overlooked 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.160 is young athletes have young parents. And I think sometimes 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:11.679 as you age, you simply gain the perspective of maturity 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:15.680 and you look back and you realize that ultimately it 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.360 is about development, it is about growth, it is about 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:23.600 developing relationships. And having said all of that, I desperately 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.600 wanted to treat my young athletes as baseball players, and 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:28.960 I wanted to value the win. 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.320 I wanted to teach them how to compete. 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.000 I mean, it was important to me, but it was 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.920 important only if we did it with integrity. And I 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.560 think as a coach at that youth level, part of 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.720 integrity is making sure everyone has a role. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.280 Like we're not a college team. 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.560 It isn't like we have bench players that have to 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.160 support the starters, and that's not it. And so if 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.720 I were presenting to a group of young parents, I 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:56.680 would again, would I would try to emphasize the long game. 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.960 I would try to emphasize, you know, be an ambassad 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.120 for the sport. I would try to emphasize, you know, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.200 root for your teammates, your son, your daughter's teammates, as 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.280 much as your root for your son and daughter. I 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:13.480 think when we get that narrow focus of mom and dad, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.320 sometimes not only do we lose sight of the big picture, 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.839 but we focus our attention on our son and our daughter, 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.240 and then therein lies a lot of the root problem. 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.120 Is that that intensity, that competition that we have to 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:30.320 get ours and so yeah, it's it's it's retracting the lens, 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.200 it's that thirty thousand foot view. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.320 Ultimately, we're trying to grow in the game, not win 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:37.959 a game. I guess that would be my message. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.719 Do you feel like sports parents, and some rightfully so, 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.960 get a bad rap. Oftentimes, you know, you'll hear people, 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.960 even I for that matter, will say, Hey, we drop 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:50.600 our kids off at school. They're in the classroom. We're 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:52.520 not sitting there watching them take a test. You know, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.600 We're not sitting there watching them get their lecture or 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.840 doing whatever assignment they have for the day. So why 0:10:57.880 --> 0:10:59.800 do we feel like we need to impede upon a 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:01.960 coach during a practice. Why do we need to be 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.600 so engaged? Do you notice that the classroom has changed? 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:09.400 Is there a correlation? Are parents the same with the 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.240 classroom aspect of it their students in the classroom as 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.360 they are with sports, or do you notice a difference. 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.000 Well, obviously, I'm a teacher, I'm a coach, I'm a parent, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.520 I'm all the above. I'm just going to speak from 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.080 my perspective, Like if I were on a practice, I 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.520 would invite anyone to stay and watch, like I just 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:32.439 enjoyed my time coaching athletes and practice planning that I 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.560 enjoyed having the parents there to watch and learn. Like 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:41.439 for me, I wanted my message to resonate behind closed doors. 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.280 I wanted them to talk about what it was. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.040 We were learning, so they could, you know, they could reiterate 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:50.320 my message, they could emphasize my message. There are some 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:56.360 coaches that might perceive that as a parent imposing on them, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.960 like this is my time and I want my message. 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.480 But I was always more inclusive in that way. I 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.120 would invite the parents for a postgame talk. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.720 Again, I was talking at a youth level. I'm not talking 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.319 at at like a high school level or a college level. 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:10.840 But I'm not saying it couldn't be done. 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:15.400 I just I'm a I'm a big fan of transparency 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:19.520 and I would share as much as possible. And I'm 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:21.440 even humble enough to recognize. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.520 I wrote a book How the River Cats Won, and 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:24.000 I had. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.600 Some amazing parents, and you know, I talked in there 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.360 about being challenged by parents when my emotions got too hot, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.240 and they were right, and I'd like to think that 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.360 they were capable of challenging me because I created an 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.280 environment that they were permitted to do so. So it 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:44.120 is absolutely a sticky wicket like it is absolutely one 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.400 of those those tough things to navigate, but I have 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.240 found that it is way easier when the guy in charge, 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.200 the head coach, is humble enough to say I don't 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.400 have all the answers, but I've I've got a ton 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.400 of experience, and I do a lot of reading and 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.840 I try to stay up to speed all the latest research. 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.800 But if you come across something that you think might 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:08.600 help the boys the girls, I'm all in. And so 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.120 I don't know if that directly answered it, but that's 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:12.679 just how I want to do agress. 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.599 When we return, Kyle and I dive into coaching transparency. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.360 Our friends at Team snap are back with another free 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.600 webinar Wednesday, February twenty first at one pm Eastern. See 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.600 how the latest updates to the registration system on Team 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.560 snap for Business will help you seamlessly collect payments and 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.079 documents and improve the members sign up experience. Team Snap 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.000 for businesses registration system is the best way to sign 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.320 up athletes for your up and coming season, and their 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:42.079 new features improve the sign up experience for administrators, coaches, 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.520 and families. 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Where we left off, Hyle 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.800 and I were about to discuss his approach to communicating 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.280 with his player's parents and the downsize of early praise. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.600 So I know, in my coaching experience, I always have 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.600 like a pre practice first meeting, you know, like an 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.320 introductory thing. I give him a little bit of my background, 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:36.520 and this is what it could be seven years old, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:38.320 you know, eight years old, nine years old. Just hey, 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.280 here's what we're gonna do. Here's what I think. Let's 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.080 and I try to set a boundary, you know, and 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.400 I even send a long email like, hey, these not 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.480 a long email, but I try to touch on something 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.200 these kids are seven or their rate, you know, like 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.880 let's keep that perspective. Do you set a boundary, like 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.280 do you try to set expectations? Because I totally agree 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.200 with your transparency. You know, the lines of communication have 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.440 to be open. I think a lot of times where 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.120 we get up parents is when there is no transparency. 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.560 It's not necessarily an over communication, but just kind of 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.880 set the expectation from the on sects. I'm sure a 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:08.320 lot of people will hear this and go, how do 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.640 I navigate that balance right? That juggling act. 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:16.120 Yeah, transparency doesn't mean all the time, I think, you know, 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.280 we have to account for the fact that anytime that 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.280 a parent and a coach engage in some sort of 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:27.560 communication in public, every every set of eyes is allowed. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.480 To interpret that communication however they want. 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:33.160 And so what I was always hesitant of is that 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:38.040 that public communication in front of others that could could form. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.520 Their opinion and one that I didn't want them to form. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.320 So I said, look, you know, your son, your daughter 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:47.240 might be struggling, and we might have some communication where 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.200 I'm gonna I'm gonna sit them down for two games 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.440 and just let them, you know, assess the situation from 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:54.120 a different angle. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.320 We're going to talk about that. But I still believe 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:57.480 in you. 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.680 I'm still going to give you opportunities and then you 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:01.680 know you're you're gonna You're gonna find your way back 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.840 in the lineup. But if mom or dad come and 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.640 approach me at the end of the second game, uh, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.720 and I had every intention of playing them the next game. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.240 Now parents see that interaction. 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.800 And then all of a sudden that that that child's 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.440 in the lineup, they're. 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.000 Free to go. Oh, this is how it works. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.680 If I confront coach, then I get in the lineup, 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.160 and I don't want that. So I make it clear 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.720 that look, I want transparency, but I would love to 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.280 do it away from the public arena. I want to 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.000 talk about your son and your son only your daughter, 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.160 and I'll tell you exactly where they fit. And I'm 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.400 doing my best to try to get him in opportunities 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.520 to develop. But if if if people see us talking 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.360 and then I play them like, I don't know if 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.000 that's fair to me. And so that was how I 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.600 always communicated that in the preseason. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.480 Stuff to kind of shift gears a little bit, but 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:53.560 stay on the youth piece. This is something I think 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.080 you and I actually connected through this topic was the 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:59.040 early specialization, you know, multi sport thing, which I got 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.600 to tell you, man, in the last decade plus, but 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.600 really especially the last like you know, five to seven, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.439 ten years. Man, it's hard. It's hard to you know 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:09.919 who's right or wrong. I don't know if there is 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:11.639 a right or wrong. Well I shouldn't say that. I 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:13.800 think there is a right or wrong. I think it's balanced. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.240 But but it's becoming harder. It's becoming harder. Everything is 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.720 year round. I mean, I believe you're I think, are 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:22.080 you down in Georgia? 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.320 I live in Pennsylvania. Is that is that what you're asking? 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:27.920 Yeah? Okay, so you live in Yeah? Okay, so so 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.000 you live in a colder climate state. I'm in North Carolina, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.520 so you can't play everything year round. You know, I 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:36.879 grew up in the Northeast and you couldn't play baseball 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.119 year round. And then it's also thirty years ago. But 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.000 you know, how do you as a coach? I mean, 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:44.679 for God's sakes, I saw a post the other day 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.720 where apparently there's and it's not just I saw the post, 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.760 but I've heard it. There's like travel coaches encouraging high 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:52.520 school kids not to play for their high school because 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.360 it's it's not good enough. They're not good enough, They're 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.639 going to get worse. It's like how do we juggle? 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.800 How do you juggle this? And more importantly, like how 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:00.639 did you navigate it with your It's because I know 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.240 you have kids that played at a very high level 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:02.640 as well. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.800 So one of the banners on our inside co egs 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.520 that was our training facility was competer developed at something 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:13.520 year round and those words were intentional computer develop right, 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.080 And so so often coaches with an agenda only ever 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.720 focused on developing, like we have to sharpen the blade, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.560 we have to get better. Everyone's improved. They can't waste 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:26.119 any time. I think they missed that component of compete. 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:27.400 You know, I would. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.000 Tell any baseball player that you know, you're standing on 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:33.400 the foul line down one with two seconds to go. 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.520 I mean, how could you not argue that that wouldn't. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:40.080 Be helpful from an athletic standpoint. And we actually have 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:44.359 a very specific case here in my backyard, Redland High School, 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.919 where we have a really high level baseball player, like 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.159 a high end draft status in the July draft coming. 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.159 Up, and yet he's a great basketball player. 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:58.680 And the coaches got together and they designed a program 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.720 together for the athlete that allows him to. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.879 Continue to lift, continue to hit, continue to do what 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.879 he needs to do. And yet he's still playing basketball. 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.320 And I don't think that happens if you don't have 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.560 flexible coaches, you know. And I've actually gotten a little 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.960 debate I've shared I've shared his story with others, and 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:17.400 there are. 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:18.800 Some basketball coaches that said, no. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.840 I wouldn't accommodate him in that way. And my response 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:23.880 would be, if you're not going to accommodate him, you're 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.679 probably going to lose him. And so we can't just 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.480 dump the burden on the athlete and say, hey, play. 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.280 As much as possible. 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.680 The coaches need to accept some responsibility too, and say, look, 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.760 the pressure is immense. It's immense for these athletes with 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.480 so many eyes on him in the social media world. 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.160 You know, what can we do to assist we can 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.840 be flexible? We can we can potentially say, hey, this 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.199 particular athlete might not have to show up for a 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.119 six am lift because he needs his sleep and he 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.120