Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business Week,
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Speaker 1: news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser
Speaker 1: and Tim Stenevek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: It is Bloomberg Business Week. That's Carol Masser. I'm Tim Stenevek.
Speaker 2: We talked a little bit about Japan. We did Minski
Speaker 2: trip in Japan. Yeah, let's bring it a little closer.
Speaker 3: To home, a little bit closer.
Speaker 2: Okay, talk Mexico and Canada, specifically our neighbor Canada, because
Speaker 2: President Donald Trump signaled plans to impose previously threatened tariffs
Speaker 2: on as much as twenty five percent on Mexico and
Speaker 2: Canada by February first. He reiterated his contention that America's
Speaker 2: closest neighbors and largest trading partners are letting undocumented migrants
Speaker 2: and drugs flood into the United States. In Mexico have
Speaker 2: said they'd retaliate against American goods if Trump slaps tariffs
Speaker 2: on them. The USMCA, by the way, it's that trade
Speaker 2: deal that Trump negotiated during his first term that's up
Speaker 2: for review in twenty twenty six. Marion Carter is principal
Speaker 2: at Earnscliffe Strategies. It's a firm that does government relations.
Speaker 2: They do strategic communications and more for many companies, including
Speaker 2: those US companies that do business in Canada as well
Speaker 2: as those Canadian counterparts, those that do business and operate
Speaker 2: in the US. Marianne joins US from Key West, Florida
Speaker 2: this afternoon. Marian, good to have you with us. What
Speaker 2: are you hearing from your clients, those Canadian companies that
Speaker 2: operate here in the US and also the US companies
Speaker 2: that have business in Canada? What are you hearing from
Speaker 2: them right now as this threat of tariff looms?
Speaker 4: I think, thanks Fritall, thanks for having me. There's a
Speaker 4: lot of concerns, you know, as you both know, business
Speaker 4: like certainty. And when President Trump even provided the mere
Speaker 4: threat of putting on tariffs several weeks ago, many questions
Speaker 4: were when, how is this just a negotiating tactic looking
Speaker 4: ahead to the review of USMCA in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4: But now he's come out and said that as at
Speaker 4: February first, he intends to impose these tariffs, and I
Speaker 4: think there is significant concern on both sides of the
Speaker 4: border regarding how this will impact consumers directly, but also
Speaker 4: the cost of business increasing.
Speaker 2: I did mention that the President said that America's closest
Speaker 2: neighbors and largest trading partners are letting undocumented migrants and
Speaker 2: drugs flood into the US. Our team here at Bloomberg
Speaker 2: reporting that last year there were just over a million
Speaker 2: encounters with illegal border crossers by US border patrol at
Speaker 2: the US Mexico border, but in Canada they were only
Speaker 2: twenty two, three hundred and sixty nine, so not many.
Speaker 2: That's according to data from the CPB. When it comes
Speaker 2: to fentanyl, the US Border Service sees about twenty thousand,
Speaker 2: six hundred pounds of fetanyl at the Mexico US border
Speaker 2: and then fifty pounds at the Canada US border.
Speaker 5: All Right, So that's interesting for a little perspective in
Speaker 5: terms of the concerns that have been voiced by President Trump.
Speaker 5: And then you know, in terms of what we might
Speaker 5: see in terms of tariffs.
Speaker 3: Marian, I mean, there are things.
Speaker 5: That President Trump will say, and then there's the things
Speaker 5: that actually get done, and then they're you know, so
Speaker 5: I am curious what you're hearing from your clients, the
Speaker 5: questions that they are raising, and what people think ultimately
Speaker 5: will result from the US in terms of any kind
Speaker 5: of tariffs against Canada. I mean, we know there's so
Speaker 5: much trade that goes back and forth in the auto sector, certainly,
Speaker 5: and so we know that ultimately that would be perhaps
Speaker 5: paid by US consumers. So I'm just curious, and that's
Speaker 5: just one aspect of the trade between the two nations, right.
Speaker 4: I think it's important to distinguish that I'm hearing different things.
Speaker 4: I think business understands that this could be catastrophic for
Speaker 4: our integrated economies, particularly in the auto sector, but also
Speaker 4: as the expert oil and energy to the US and
Speaker 4: as well as critical minerals. But I think Canadians are
Speaker 4: very clear that the government and I think we're fairly
Speaker 4: unified that if tariffs are imposed on Canadian business, that
Speaker 4: Canada is not going to sit idly and watch it happen.
Speaker 4: Canada will push back quite significantly, and in terms of
Speaker 4: counter tariffs, impose American goods and services, and I think
Speaker 4: Canadian business, my clients least stand behind that. However, in
Speaker 4: the US side, and unless my clients, but I think
Speaker 4: generally there is not as much understanding from the Americans
Speaker 4: on how reliant they are on the Canadian economy. I
Speaker 4: think auto sector is pretty well understood that I don't
Speaker 4: know in some of those key states that some people
Speaker 4: realize their jobs are significantly reliant on goods going back
Speaker 4: and forth between the Canadian American borders, or if there
Speaker 4: are if we do find ourselves in a trade war,
Speaker 4: that the price of gas is going to go up
Speaker 4: at the pumps and on the oil side, at least
Speaker 4: we export a lot of those raw materials and then
Speaker 4: things are refined in the US. So it's unlike similarly
Speaker 4: the China issue, where it's more of the finished good.
Speaker 4: It would completely disrupt the American supply chain dynamic in
Speaker 4: several industries, and I don't think it's well understood that
Speaker 4: it will impact their day to day living. And so
Speaker 4: I hear quite different things. And I think that's naturally
Speaker 4: also because Canada knows a lot about the United States.
Speaker 4: The United States is a superpower, and we just we
Speaker 4: tend to understand the trading relationship and how much that
Speaker 4: is important not only friends and neighbors, but it's very
Speaker 4: good for our economy. It's also good for the American economy.
Speaker 4: So I think, if anything, I'm hearing from American clients
Speaker 4: that there needs to be more education and proactivity from
Speaker 4: the Canadians, both on the political and business slides, to
Speaker 4: make them understand how this could impact the business in
Speaker 4: the US as well.
Speaker 2: Do you, I mean, how seriously are you taking this threat?
Speaker 4: Look, I think everyone's pretty aware that only President Trump
Speaker 4: knows what he's going to do, and so I think
Speaker 4: people are recognizing that it it, it could be a
Speaker 4: significant reality. I think why there's concern is that so
Speaker 4: much of his campaign had relied on bringing those American
Speaker 4: jobs back, particularly in the steel industry, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 4: and so I think he's pretty serious about doing that.
Speaker 4: But I think it's a matter of we we just
Speaker 4: we just don't know based on you know, having seen
Speaker 4: him in office previously, and uh, when the NAFTA review
Speaker 4: happened under his tenure, we saw how challenging that was
Speaker 4: in terms of negotiation. So I think it's people taking
Speaker 4: it very seriously because it ultimately would create a serious
Speaker 4: recession in Canada and lots of jobs. But I think
Speaker 4: where there is relief in some respects as we don't
Speaker 4: know he could just wake up one day and say,
Speaker 4: actually am deciding not to do this. But since he
Speaker 4: said the February first deadline a couple of days ago,
Speaker 4: I think there's a lot of nervousness that that could
Speaker 4: be a stark reality in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: Do you see this as the threat on Mexico and
Speaker 2: Canada being equal in the sense of like the chance
Speaker 2: that Trump will follow through on those Do you see
Speaker 2: it with China more so, like in terms of trade priorities.
Speaker 2: How are you thinking about it?
Speaker 4: I think Canada and the US are pretty aligned, I
Speaker 4: think on navigating issues around China that pertains to national
Speaker 4: security and trade issues. I think what's been problematic, unfortunately
Speaker 4: you had raised earlier the immigration dynamics in Betanol, like
Speaker 4: Canada is just not Mexico and vice versa, and I
Speaker 4: think we are the Canadians are getting lumped into some
Speaker 4: of the major challenges on the issues in Mexico and
Speaker 4: it's not as impactful. But I think unfortunately we're coming
Speaker 4: as one size fit all deal and I think that's
Speaker 4: just by the nature of the history with NAFTA. So
Speaker 4: I think that we haven't really seen any distinguishing between
Speaker 4: Mexico and Canada. We're often lumped together, even though I
Speaker 4: think it's pretty clear that the issues related to Trader
Speaker 4: are quite different.
Speaker 3: All Right, We're going to leave it there.
Speaker 5: Hey, Marianne, thank you so much. Great to get some
Speaker 5: time with you. She's principal at Earnscliffe Strategy.
Speaker 3: It's a firm that does government.
Speaker 5: Relations, strategic communications, and a lot more for a lot
Speaker 5: of companies, including those US companies that do business in
Speaker 5: Canada as well as some of the Canadian companies that
Speaker 5: operate in the US.
Speaker 3: So a really smart.
Speaker 5: Perspective in terms of what may or may not be
Speaker 5: in terms of tariffs between coming from the US to Canada.
Speaker 2: Well, you might remember just yesterday we covered this news.
Speaker 2: The MLB said it ordered its employees to return the
Speaker 2: office five days a week. The move makes MLB the
Speaker 2: latest US employer to require workers to return to their
Speaker 2: desks more often, joining Amazon, AT and t JP, Morgan
Speaker 2: Chase and more. And in fact, just in the last
Speaker 2: forty eight hours or so, President Donald Trump has also
Speaker 2: ordered federal government workers back to their office. Maybe some
Speaker 2: of those employees Carol asking themselves as they get back
Speaker 2: to their desks, what am I doing here? Why am
Speaker 2: I at this desk? Why am I at this job?
Speaker 2: After all? The last few years have been pretty wild. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we've got global unrest, we had a pandemic. A lot
Speaker 2: of people are thinking differently about work life balance, right,
Speaker 2: and yet here I am back at work five days
Speaker 2: a week.
Speaker 3: So are you asking why are we here?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a question that Jennifer Moss is asking. She's
Speaker 2: a journalist and author. She's been on our air before.
Speaker 2: She's got a new book out. It's called why are
Speaker 2: We here? Creating a work culture that everyone wants? She
Speaker 2: joins us from Kitchener, Ontario in Canada. Welcome back, Jennifer.
Speaker 2: How are you.
Speaker 6: I'm great? Thank you. I think we're all asking that question.
Speaker 2: Why do you think Why do you think we're asking
Speaker 2: that question now more so than ever?
Speaker 6: Well, there's been a bunch of reasons, and you named
Speaker 6: a few, but I think it's just an existential question
Speaker 6: for an existential time. And you know, I've been talking
Speaker 6: about the future of work, what that looks like. I
Speaker 6: think we've sort of jumped into the multiverse of work
Speaker 6: and it was just jumped this timeline, and you know,
Speaker 6: everything throughout the pandemic, throughout the last couple of years
Speaker 6: has exploded. Work was already not working that great beforehand,
Speaker 6: but but it again, like a crisis, just exacerbates these
Speaker 6: existing problems, and so there's high burnout. People are feeling
Speaker 6: this level of on we this level of dissatisfaction and detachment,
Speaker 6: and a lot of it is because we just we
Speaker 6: went through this mortality facing event and it's changed our
Speaker 6: priority structures about work and life and how they fit
Speaker 6: into each other.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 5: I can just see an older generation saying, oh, come on, folks,
Speaker 5: work is about paying the bills.
Speaker 3: Work is about you know, putting a roof for her.
Speaker 2: People say, work is a four letter word, you know exactly.
Speaker 3: So it's just.
Speaker 6: What has really changed. You know.
Speaker 5: People work, yes, to find fulfilling careers and all that
Speaker 5: great stuff, no doubt about it. But ultimately it's about
Speaker 5: supporting yourself, isn't it, or you know, making sure your
Speaker 5: family is supported.
Speaker 6: Well, what happens when you go through something so cataclysmic
Speaker 6: in your life. Your brain does this really interesting thing.
Speaker 6: It starts to reorganize its priorities because it actually does
Speaker 6: subconsciously think that life is short, and so when you
Speaker 6: are doing something that feels toxic or it's exhausting, or
Speaker 6: you feel depleted by it, it starts to become reorganized
Speaker 6: as a lower priority. And that's why you're seeing so
Speaker 6: much pushback. And you know, we used to have a
Speaker 6: trans actual relationship with work, but I've been saying that,
Speaker 6: you know, really since the advent of the car phone,
Speaker 6: when work became something else and it moved into our
Speaker 6: personal lives, that relationship became a social contract. So employers
Speaker 6: want us to be able to work anywhere, everywhere, at
Speaker 6: all times. Well, then they have to fulfill that, you know,
Speaker 6: their end of the bargain, and that it has become
Speaker 6: this social relationship and it's not just transactional anymore.
Speaker 2: So I guess the question is what adjustment people are
Speaker 2: making as a result of this. We certainly saw that
Speaker 2: happen during the pandemic. A lot of people who thought
Speaker 2: they'd work remotely or maybe just said, you know what,
Speaker 2: this isn't worth it to me. I'm want to move
Speaker 2: somewhere else in the country. I want to do something different.
Speaker 2: Is that shift still happening? Are people moving, are people
Speaker 2: making big life changes later in their career. As a
Speaker 2: result of this existential crisis.
Speaker 6: Well, when you look at the people that have mobility,
Speaker 6: it's your top talent, it's the ones you really want
Speaker 6: to stay, they're the ones leaving when they feel this
Speaker 6: level of dissatisfaction. They'll go to a place that has
Speaker 6: the work life balance and all of those other you know,
Speaker 6: that criteria that they're looking for. And what happens is
Speaker 6: those that are not able to have that mobility are
Speaker 6: staying and they are detached. So, you know, the great
Speaker 6: detachment is what Gallop's calling it, where people are actually
Speaker 6: so actively disengaged and unhappy at work. They're less productive
Speaker 6: and they're less impactful on your bottom line. They're actually
Speaker 6: detracting from your bottom line. So it feels good that
Speaker 6: we are seeing, yes, this level of mobility change, but
Speaker 6: people that are really good that you want to stay,
Speaker 6: are leaving, and then you have this glood of people
Speaker 6: that are unhappy and they're the ones that you know
Speaker 6: are going to impact whether you are competitive. We're also seeing,
Speaker 6: you know, right now we're going into the silver tsunami
Speaker 6: where you know, peak sixty five, where so many people
Speaker 6: are turning sixty five and they're not choosing to return,
Speaker 6: they're leaving. We're seeing mass early retirements, which is changing
Speaker 6: the labor force. We're seeing young cohorts decide to go
Speaker 6: into freelancing and not opt into that corporate world. And
Speaker 6: we're also seeing women exiting and moving into a part
Speaker 6: time work. So the labor force is definitely shifting, and
Speaker 6: we need to be careful about, you know, saying, Okay, well,
Speaker 6: at least we have that mobility managed. No, we don't.
Speaker 6: If we have people there that are disengaged and unhappy,
Speaker 6: it's actually worse than if they quit.
Speaker 5: All right, Well, Tim and I are doom because I'm
Speaker 5: looking at page sixty one. Eating lunch with others pays off.
Speaker 5: One study found that participants who ate together we're more
Speaker 5: cooperative and trusting compared to those who did not. Eating
Speaker 5: with others also improved tenure and enhanced overall work group performance. Actually,
Speaker 5: maybe we're not due because we do eat lunch together often,
Speaker 5: But we're at our desk.
Speaker 3: Are you saying that workers curios? Carol, that's what I eat, Ceio,
Speaker 3: there's my lunch.
Speaker 5: Although Tim Saidiz brings us a sandwich into the studio,
Speaker 5: so we're kind of continuing to eat lunch together.
Speaker 3: I have a banana.
Speaker 5: I mean, what are you saying, Is it that people
Speaker 5: need to take a work they need to take a
Speaker 5: break rather and go sit on a terrace, go to
Speaker 5: the office lunch room, or go outside and go actually
Speaker 5: sit and have lunch together, which is never going to
Speaker 5: happen because we're kind of busy.
Speaker 3: But that's okay.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that
Speaker 6: you're saying there. One of the things that I write
Speaker 6: about in the book is time poverty. We're so time starved.
Speaker 6: And this is really great research by Lorgers out of
Speaker 6: the London School of Economics, and she says that time
Speaker 6: starvation is really causing these issues of now we're sitting
Speaker 6: ten hours a day. There's this rise of it's called
Speaker 6: dining al deesco, which is what you're describing.
Speaker 5: That's funny rise.
Speaker 2: I've been for my whole career.
Speaker 6: The dining al deesco is one of my favorite definitions
Speaker 6: that have come out in the last er terms that
Speaker 6: have come out in the last couple of years. But
Speaker 6: it really is only twenty minutes. And that Cornell study
Speaker 6: that you cited and that I include in the book
Speaker 6: is really just twenty minutes. It's twenty minutes to improve culture.
Speaker 6: It's not every day that we have to do this.
Speaker 6: It's really just focusing on rebuilding that muscle of community
Speaker 6: of get a stepping up, you know, up and away
Speaker 6: from our desk, finding a way to make the experience
Speaker 6: of work a little bit better. The reason why people
Speaker 6: are so resistant to these return to office mandates is
Speaker 6: that they're going into the office and it feels exactly
Speaker 6: like what they could be doing at home. If we
Speaker 6: want to change that dynamic and make the office a
Speaker 6: place where people want to be, we have to bring
Speaker 6: the fun back. Going to work right now is like
Speaker 6: going to school without art, gym or recess. The fun
Speaker 6: has left the building and we need to bring a
Speaker 6: bit of that back or else people will just feel like,
Speaker 6: what is the point Why am I here?
Speaker 3: I have to say I do miss snack time and
Speaker 3: nap time. I'm just gonna put it out there.
Speaker 2: When you remember that from school, don't you.
Speaker 5: Remember that we were little, we were young, but snack
Speaker 5: time we used to have the little milk cartons.
Speaker 3: You never no, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was such a deprived child. I don't start. I
Speaker 2: don't have memories from back then. Really, that's for a
Speaker 2: different conversation.
Speaker 3: I favorite great. I remember saying grade yeah, miss Barbetta.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Jennifer, what's wrong with me?
Speaker 6: Feel like you had a really sad childhood?
Speaker 2: Great childhood. Don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3: I just like, yeah, great childhood. I just I know.
Speaker 2: I mean all I remember is like playing outside.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, Oh I did.
Speaker 2: Go to a school.
Speaker 6: Bring that to work.
Speaker 2: Then I will say, maybe.
Speaker 6: I don't play outside for we do, take we don't.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't remember because now that you mention it,
Speaker 2: I went to this school where they didn't allow sugar
Speaker 2: in your This is like California in you know, eighties
Speaker 2: and nineties, we were all into preservative so like you
Speaker 2: weren't even allowed to bring like jam or jelly on
Speaker 2: your sandwich.
Speaker 3: And listen.
Speaker 5: One thing I want to ask you about is you
Speaker 5: also get into DEI And it does feel like there's
Speaker 5: a real pushback. We've seen it in the corporate community.
Speaker 5: We're seeing it from uh President Trump. We're seeing it
Speaker 5: in the federal government.
Speaker 3: D I d I.
Speaker 5: Is that good for making us feel more connected?
Speaker 3: Or so far? The way it's been to implemented not
Speaker 3: so good. Give us some thoughts here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I dig into the research in the book, and DEI,
Speaker 6: I think has faced a lot of problems because it
Speaker 6: has been a trial and error kind of experiment, and
Speaker 6: we have to expect that it's not going to be
Speaker 6: completely figured out. We're dealing with really long term, institutional
Speaker 6: millennia type problems. You can't just fix it with certain
Speaker 6: programming or you know, or something that's going to be
Speaker 6: othering people, which is a big problem with a lot
Speaker 6: of the anti bias training that we've seen out there.
Speaker 6: So it hasn't done well, and so it's very easy
Speaker 6: to attack and say, oh, it's just it's just problematic.
Speaker 6: But if we don't have a sense of belonging inside
Speaker 6: of organizations, how are we going to hit those shared goals?
Speaker 6: How are we going to have a shared vision? If
Speaker 6: people feel excluded, then that's a real problem. And I understand, Okay, well,
Speaker 6: maybe DEI in its current form is not working as
Speaker 6: well as we'd like. It's not optimal, but there's a
Speaker 6: lot of learning we can do. And if we do
Speaker 6: eliminate all diverversity in the way that we think about
Speaker 6: creating teams and organizations. It's going to be catastrophic. You're
Speaker 6: going to lose you know, innovation, You're going to create
Speaker 6: group think. You're going to have people that all look
Speaker 6: and sound the same coming up with the same ideas.
Speaker 6: And that doesn't make you competitive or innovative. And so
Speaker 6: we need to take a step back and not just
Speaker 6: cut DEI entirely out, but rethink how we do it
Speaker 6: better and have a bit of grace period for it
Speaker 6: to take its time to be more functional and optimal,
Speaker 6: because right now it's just it still is in a
Speaker 6: trial and iteration stage.
Speaker 2: We had you on a few years ago, back in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one for your previous book, The Burnout Epidemic,
Speaker 2: and I'm wondering if you see how you see that
Speaker 2: a few years later, especially now as so many companies
Speaker 2: are requiring people to be back in the office five
Speaker 2: days a week. Do you think that's a mistake.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, it is a mistake. I mean you look at
Speaker 6: Nicholas Bloom Stanford economist Mark ma he's a professor of Pittsburgh.
Speaker 6: They've done a really extensive research study along with their
Speaker 6: team and have found that if you are really, you know,
Speaker 6: wanting to be a purely capitalist. You're looking at the
Speaker 6: the the economic reasons or rationale, or revenue or shareholder
Speaker 6: impact rationale for work mode. It's hybrid. Is the number
Speaker 6: one best way for people to work. It's not fully
Speaker 6: remote necessarily some do it okay, but it's not five
Speaker 6: days in the office. It's a bit of both and
Speaker 6: giving people the sense of downtime and having flexibility. What
Speaker 6: we've determined is flexibility is a right, not a perk.
Speaker 6: These days, it used to be a perk, but now
Speaker 6: that's changed. People feel like, this is my right to
Speaker 6: have flexibility. And so when we got to make it
Speaker 6: seem like a perk, it ends up just being toned deaf.
Speaker 3: We get to run good stuff.
Speaker 5: Journalist and author Jennifer Moss her new book why Are
Speaker 5: We here?
Speaker 3: Creating a work culture everyone wants this is proper.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 5: It was just last year that the US Environmental Protection
Speaker 5: Agency the EPA says no level of exposure to PIFIS
Speaker 5: is safe and imposed its first ever drinking water limits
Speaker 5: on them, requiring water utilities to remove nearly all of
Speaker 5: the substances from tap water. And it's a move expected
Speaker 5: to cost billions of dollars to implement. The compounds are
Speaker 5: found in high levels in the water of many communities
Speaker 5: around the world. At the same time, we've done some
Speaker 5: reporting on wastewater treatment plants that we can get into
Speaker 5: with our next guest. So let's get to it, because
Speaker 5: she knows a lot about this space. Estelle brushleyon Off
Speaker 5: is the CEO of Violia. It's the global environmental services
Speaker 5: company dealing with water in waste management. Is based in
Speaker 5: Paris and it's ADRs traded in the United States. They
Speaker 5: have a market cap of around twenty one billion dollars.
Speaker 5: She is with us from Phoenix, Arizona. I'm apologize. I'm
Speaker 5: sure I've like mangled your name and the company name.
Speaker 3: So help me out here. But Estella, it is good
Speaker 3: to have you here with us. Tell us a little
Speaker 3: bit more.
Speaker 5: About what your company does and kind of what is
Speaker 5: waste management today?
Speaker 7: No one, you actually did perfectly right. Congratulations for that.
Speaker 7: So the OL yeah, is a fourteen five hundred company,
Speaker 7: as you said, listing in Paris, but we operate across
Speaker 7: the globe, including in the US, where we are you know,
Speaker 7: in the top three of our industry and has this
Speaker 7: waste or in water management and water technology is in
Speaker 7: the same way with the big, big growth opportunities in
Speaker 7: this country, including the one you mentioned earlier on which
Speaker 7: is p fast removal and treatment to protect human health.
Speaker 7: Another one being you know, everything to do with what
Speaker 7: Oscar city. We are the water company in the world,
Speaker 7: operating in many countries, so we've learned from what we've experienced,
Speaker 7: whether it would be in Australia or you know, in
Speaker 7: the southern part of Europe, in the Middle East, and
Speaker 7: actually in the US as well. So we are leveraging
Speaker 7: from this global foot prin to a for our customer
Speaker 7: the best in class solution to tackle you know, like
Speaker 7: reducing water footprint, recycling or removing politans.
Speaker 2: How big of a business now is removing p f us,
Speaker 2: Like what portion of your revenue comes to that versus
Speaker 2: other services?
Speaker 7: So I guess you know it's a fast growing but
Speaker 7: still limited. It was zero two years ago. We will
Speaker 7: finish the year twenty four with more than two hundred
Speaker 7: million and we anticipated to be more one billion by
Speaker 7: the end of the decade. And when I say bye,
Speaker 7: I hope it's before twenty thirty. But you know, removing politants,
Speaker 7: you know, we can talk about p first, but there
Speaker 7: are many other politans which removing every single day. We
Speaker 7: are the number one pultry remover in the world, present
Speaker 7: in the US, in Europe, in Australia, in the Middle
Speaker 7: East and everywhere every day, very fast growing. We went
Speaker 7: from having a one billion business to more than five
Speaker 7: billion dollar business now and still moving very very fast.
Speaker 5: So I am curious about PIFAs forever chemicals, I mean,
Speaker 5: the cleanup of it.
Speaker 3: Is it even possible?
Speaker 5: It seems so embedded in our society and water, in products,
Speaker 5: actually in our bodies already.
Speaker 3: Is it even possible to make a difference or.
Speaker 6: Is at least is it too late maybe for the.
Speaker 5: Current generations, but maybe something that can be affixed for
Speaker 5: future generations.
Speaker 7: So I guess I would leave you know, the public
Speaker 7: authorities and public bodies to decide, you know, what are
Speaker 7: the priorities and what's our the series harm and the
Speaker 7: other places where you know, it's a little bit less
Speaker 7: problematic for human health, but when it comes to typically
Speaker 7: safe drinking water, you know, we have the technologies and
Speaker 7: solutions to remove pretty much. So every single PIFAs in
Speaker 7: every single circumstances, with varus technologies, we innovate quite a
Speaker 7: lot to be able to concentrate them and then to
Speaker 7: treat them into a high tem pressure incinerator, which we
Speaker 7: have a few in this country for instance. But I
Speaker 7: think you know there is an element which is not
Speaker 7: only to be able to technically do that, but to
Speaker 7: make it affordable. So there is efficiency here to derive
Speaker 7: solution which in the ends are just what you need,
Speaker 7: but not too much so just but you need to
Speaker 7: remove the harm. But it's not one technology. If it's
Speaker 7: all you have to indicate and to design solution depending
Speaker 7: on the concentration, depending on the geography. And we have
Speaker 7: an end to end a solution for pfs and not
Speaker 7: for called bond p fast, which is you know, taking
Speaker 7: off very very fast in the US and in other countries.
Speaker 2: To say, how do you I'm just curious, how do
Speaker 2: you think about this life cycle of not just forever
Speaker 2: chemicals but other pollutants. Are we to the point right
Speaker 2: now where we know what we should and should not
Speaker 2: have going down the drain that we get to a
Speaker 2: point where we will not have to remove stuff from
Speaker 2: water within our lifetimes or is this just getting worse?
Speaker 2: Is it going the wrong way?
Speaker 7: Actually I would debate, I would debate that we are
Speaker 7: removing and measuring even pollutants which you know, we're already
Speaker 7: there years and years ago, but we didn't even detect
Speaker 7: or we didn't even measure, and we you know, didn't
Speaker 7: know how to treat. So we know how to treat
Speaker 7: and measure things now which we didn't five or ten
Speaker 7: years ago. So they are not necessarily new pollutants. But
Speaker 7: you know, we are moving in the right direction as in,
Speaker 7: you know, we know how to treat them. So innovation
Speaker 7: is helpful to go in the right direction. And so
Speaker 7: there are a lot of things which were pollutants which
Speaker 7: we're talking about a lot in the seventies on the eighties,
Speaker 7: which now are behind us because you know, we've moved
Speaker 7: to the next one. So I guess human progress, he's
Speaker 7: helping us to tackling more and more challenges. So I think,
Speaker 7: you know, we we have a positive effect on you know,
Speaker 7: like all the innovation on the way we can tackle
Speaker 7: these type of positions.
Speaker 5: You know, you've been at your company for about two
Speaker 5: decades a still, and I am curious about how waste
Speaker 5: management has changed in terms of the processes.
Speaker 7: So West management to change a lot in the last
Speaker 7: twenty years. You're right, I will separate my twenty years
Speaker 7: here in Villia very soon. And you know, because we
Speaker 7: used to be very like a hole and dump and
Speaker 7: now there is a lot we can recycle now which
Speaker 7: we didn't even know how to technically, and of course
Speaker 7: nobody was really I guess, aware of the potential problem
Speaker 7: to create. So I think I've seen, for instance, now
Speaker 7: in this country we know how to recycle electrical batteries.
Speaker 7: As you can imagine, this is not anything I would
Speaker 7: have thought of twenty years ago when I joined the company,
Speaker 7: because there was not even electric cars, let alone you know,
Speaker 7: being able to recycle them and to find back you know,
Speaker 7: the presarce metals which are embedded into those batteries, so
Speaker 7: nikaelkbatt Anthio. Another example was the pollutant as I mentioned,
Speaker 7: which we are able to treat now and thanks to
Speaker 7: innovation and five years ago, ten years ago, we were
Speaker 7: not able to treat them. But I guess the big
Speaker 7: big thing for me is the realization which I can
Speaker 7: see everywhere close the globe was the last week in
Speaker 7: the Emirates of Water is absolutely on social services and
Speaker 7: a social elements not only for your daily life but
Speaker 7: as well for industries and for agriculture. I'm in Arizona today,
Speaker 7: I will visit a micro electronic and micro conductor site
Speaker 7: from TSMC in which custom of flowers and you know what,
Speaker 7: if you want chip manufacturing, you'll absolutely need water. So
Speaker 7: the fact of being able to recycle water to remove
Speaker 7: polite and soft water, even on industrial site like that one,
Speaker 7: has become absolutely paramount. And that's something which.
Speaker 6: We were choking about years ago.
Speaker 7: Yeah, now it's real, it's become real. It's for real.
Speaker 2: Do we get to the point though, and I'm wondering,
Speaker 2: you supplied more than one hundred and thirty one hundred
Speaker 2: million people a year with drinking water, more than one
Speaker 2: hundred million with waste water services. On the water subject,
Speaker 2: the drinking water part, you're in an area of the
Speaker 2: country right now that doesn't have a lot of water.
Speaker 2: We're seeing fires in southern California continue to burn and
Speaker 2: in fact new fires crop up due to the dry
Speaker 2: conditions there. Do you think that we get to a
Speaker 2: point within our lifetimes where water becomes this scarce enough
Speaker 2: resource that people are going to start moving away from
Speaker 2: these desirable places to live areas that are just running
Speaker 2: out of water.
Speaker 7: I won't comment from the desire of the population in
Speaker 7: the next five to ten years. That will be probably
Speaker 7: too difficult to incipate. But what I can tell you
Speaker 7: is I'm not talking about the future. We're talking about now.
Speaker 7: Last year alone, eighty percent of the American population experiens
Speaker 7: wa Oscar City. So I'm not talking about the future.
Speaker 7: I'm talking about it's happening now, And I'm not talking
Speaker 7: only about Arizona or California. Eighty percent of the American
Speaker 7: population goes across the country, and if I may across,
Speaker 7: you know, like a political divide across you know, economical divide.
Speaker 7: You know, it concerns every single of American almost and
Speaker 7: I think that's why. You know, the solutions we can
Speaker 7: offer and what we've developed thanks to innovation and thanks
Speaker 7: to our worldwide footprint, is not only helpful, but is
Speaker 7: much and more. That's why you Novlia, I think has
Speaker 7: a great future in this country. Already the very presents,
Speaker 7: as I said, but a great potential. Good food.
Speaker 5: You know, it's interesting when you talk about water viscosity, right,
Speaker 5: that's how water resists flowing right, or changes like this
Speaker 5: is important climate changes team kind of touched upon in
Speaker 5: a big way. The impact that that is having and
Speaker 5: the way the world is going at this point, what
Speaker 5: makes you a little.
Speaker 3: Bit nervous about our access to water?
Speaker 7: I guess you know. Climate change is not only about warming.
Speaker 7: It's about extreme events being more often and more intense.
Speaker 7: But it droughts or floodings or hurricanes or mega fires
Speaker 7: like we are seeing in South California today. So we
Speaker 7: have to anticipate those events because they're happening here now
Speaker 7: and they will be even more frequent and more intense.
Speaker 7: And the direct consequence of those defense is on water.
Speaker 7: So water is the subject of adaptation to climate change,
Speaker 7: because climate change means too much slaughter or too little water,
Speaker 7: or not at the right time in the year, or
Speaker 7: not of the right quality. That's why we have to adapt.
Speaker 7: And the big hope of WISH would have that every
Speaker 7: single lot of cherishes water as opposed to waste it.
Speaker 7: It's a precious resource and we have therefore to do
Speaker 7: a bit more about water conservation, to think about the
Speaker 7: water footprint of say, as I said, chips manufacturing, they
Speaker 7: are really much into what is my water footprint and
Speaker 7: how can I reduce it? That's great through to recycling
Speaker 7: of water. You know, water is to produce to be
Speaker 7: only used once, so recycle. It is part of the
Speaker 7: mix of solution. We are developing more on this.
Speaker 2: Country where what area of your business is poised for
Speaker 2: the most growth.
Speaker 7: So it really has the sways which means pulutantry, moval,
Speaker 7: and everything to do with water technologies and operating networks.
Speaker 7: So there are the two big ones in the US
Speaker 7: and actually across the globe because as I said, what
Speaker 7: I've just described for this country applies to many many
Speaker 7: other places because this is the reality of the fact
Speaker 7: that we all face as human beings, and it potentially
Speaker 7: impacts our quality of life as well as jobs and manufacturing.
Speaker 7: So if we want to still have industries, they need water.
Speaker 7: If we still want to have agriculture and phil the population,
Speaker 7: we need water, and so on and so forth. So
Speaker 7: I think those are the two which have the most
Speaker 7: growth what we call our growth booster in our strategic plan,
Speaker 7: and those are really really you know, progressing super well
Speaker 7: as we speak.
Speaker 5: Just last question we're thinking about with the new administration
Speaker 5: here in the United States, President Trump pulling out from
Speaker 5: the Paris Climate Accord, has also ordered federal agencies to
Speaker 5: immediately pause the spending of money from the Inflation Reduction Act,
Speaker 5: which is one that provided billions of dollars in subsidies
Speaker 5: to clean energy and other climate initiatives. What impact do
Speaker 5: you think that has overall? What impact, if any, does
Speaker 5: it have on your company? And just have about a
Speaker 5: minute left here.
Speaker 7: So to keep very simple, Veolia has no contract with
Speaker 7: the central government and we have no subsidies of the ARRAY,
Speaker 7: so direct impact none on that front. The second thing
Speaker 7: I was to say is, you know, we work at
Speaker 7: local level with industries or with municipalities and the population
Speaker 7: in across you know, this country whatever. Again, there are
Speaker 7: political orientation. Absolutely are desperate to have a clean drinking
Speaker 7: water when they open their tap without pipacin. And we've
Speaker 7: tested that, we have surveyed that in the US and
Speaker 7: seventy percent of the American population is very anxious about
Speaker 7: fast in that a drinking water. And it's irrespective of
Speaker 7: if they are Democrat or Republican. So this is really pushing, pushing,
Speaker 7: very very fast, and that's why we are really supported
Speaker 7: in terms of groups.
Speaker 3: That is a disturbing statistic and sobering.
Speaker 5: Estelle's so glad we got time with you, really really
Speaker 5: appreciate it. Estelle brushly enough. She is the CEO of Veolia.
Speaker 5: It's the global environmental services company. As we said, they
Speaker 5: deal with waste management, water management, joining us here. Based
Speaker 5: in Paris, but she is in Phoenix, Arizona today