WEBVTT - Episode 45: Black Panther 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:14.440 Hello, and welcome to another edition of Nerdificent. I am 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.040 one half of your host, Danny Branan is and sitting 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.599 to the side of me this time. How's everybody doing. 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.280 I hope everyone's feeling good listening to this. Just chilled 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:30.440 out on a good February mid February time of day, 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.280 if you know. We asked people to rate and review 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.200 us on iTunes and people have been sending a screenshots 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:38.800 and I have to say thank you so much for 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:40.920 taking the time to do that. It really does bump 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:43.159 up our numbers. It helps other people see the podcast. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.159 And I don't know if you know this, but we 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.400 have been featured on the front page of Apple I 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:51.880 think like three or four times, and this podcast isn't 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.600 even a year old. Yeah, it'll be soon, though, It'll 0:00:55.640 --> 0:01:00.920 be soon. That's a big accomplishment. I think that's really cool. Yeah, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.000 especially to have like two nerds of color on the 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.720 front page. It's just holding it down, you know, like, Hey, 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.040 how's it going? Yep, yep, how you doing? Look at 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.360 these heads? I know it is just two heads of us. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.559 I love it. And uh, today we are covering black Panther. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.319 We're covering everything that is to Chaula how he came 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.360 to be the film, the TV show, and joining us 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:25.760 we have comic book writer, novelist, screenwriter, showrunner, A black 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.559 Panther's Quest, Jeff Thorpe, Wow, who's that guy? That is you? 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:32.679 I didn't even name all the things you did. Also, 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:38.240 actor that's dead. That's dead tweeter teeter extraordin there. I can't. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.720 They're like all my friends are like, Jeff, get off Twitter, 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.600 Like it's too late. We're married. Don't you feel though 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.240 that your can connect? I feel like Twitter helps me. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:48.160 I mean it hurts me for sure, but I feel 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:53.040 like it helps me stay relevant with everything going on. Yes, 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:57.440 on a certain level, that's true. Um. Also, uh, if 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.400 you use it properly, you meet a lot of people 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:01.280 you would not have or wise have met. I've had 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:07.840 lunches and made friends with screenwriters, directors like yourself, animators 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:09.720 who I would have never otherwise got to meet. I 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:12.560 put I put together these things called the battle books 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.200 that I'm selling, which I got. Um. There's a hashtag 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.120 called visible women. There's a hashtag called drawing well Black. 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:20.280 There's also a hashtag called drawing well Latin, and all 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:22.840 the other different things. But I found artists that I 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.480 would have never been able to find, and they're awesome 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.640 and they were affordable, And if I wasn't on Twitter, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:29.600 I would not know who any of them were, and 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.760 I made initial contact with them. That way, I can 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.519 probably I can publicize my work in a very quick 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.600 effective manner. And frankly, if I want to tell the 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.800 President he's a jerk, I just tipped right over to 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:48.520 his account, right And it doesn't change anything, but it 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.640 makes my day a little lighter. Yeah, you know, I 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:53.400 feel like it's also helped me to be a better 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.880 person because I'm aware of people that exist outside of 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.040 my friend group, you know, and I have a very 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.560 diverse friend group. It's constantly changing, the world is constantly changing, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.360 and I feel like I wouldn't be the woman that 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.960 I am without listening to all these other voices people. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.160 The hard part about Twitter is the awful people that, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.400 of course you have to put up with. But like, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.720 for instance, I just I did not know what non 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.120 binary was until last year, Right, I thought I had 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.040 it all locked down and I'm all progressive and whatnot, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.519 and they started throwing out ace and non binary and 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.000 all this stuff. But luckily there's Twitter, and I don't 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.000 even have to ask half of the questions, half of 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.400 the questions, or just somebody else going what the hell 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:37.960 and then someone graciously explains it and I follow follow, Right, 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.760 I wouldn't have watched Pose. I wouldn't have thought to 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.080 watch Pose if not for Twitter. Right. Uh, there are 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.520 some gorgeous people pose. Yes, Oh my god, some of 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.440 those ladies um flutter. But it wasn't the kind of 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.320 show regardless, because I generally like things with monsters or 0:03:54.560 --> 0:03:56.960 some sort of supernatural or whatever thing in it. It 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.119 wouldn't have been the kind of show that I would 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.440 have even looked at because it's essentially it's soap opera, 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.400 right again, with no time travel. I'm fine, just put 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.800 in some time trying, right. But because of this sort 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:13.240 of presence that my Twitter, who I follow and who 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:17.240 follows me, there's conversations I don't even participate in that 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:19.520 makes me aware of things that I'm I'm gonna check 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.680 this album. Yeah, I mean that's that's kind of how 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.480 you know. I kind of sell people on Reddit because 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.440 every time people here red and they're like, oh, it's 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:29.440 a bad place, I was like, you can make it 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.080 a good place you have control, and as if you 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.240 follow the right subreddits, your feed becomes this, you know, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.400 beautiful place. I mean, you know, just like yeah, people 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.280 can sneak in and you'll have to like squish accordingly. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.920 Here's a good example. There's an artist called Jennifer Meyer 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:49.839 and after she's like an illustrator, painter, book covers, kids 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.680 books and fantasy novels and stuff. You can find her 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.200 on Twitter jail Meyer. She's awesome. I was really depressed 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.560 after the Trump election. Like I don't get depressed if 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:03.200 you follow Twitter. I'm rarely depressed, right, and I'm rarely 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.880 even dark. I'm just like, you know, I get angry. 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.080 I don't get sad, right, But after the election, I 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:10.640 was kind of down and I couldn't shake it. And 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:13.360 I was not used to feeling that way for any 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.159 extended period of time. I was like, I might have 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.280 to therapy or something for this. This is kind of 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.920 raw every day, every day day and this somebody else 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.120 followed her. Someone I followed followed her and reposted these 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.880 ridiculous sketches she was doing of bunnies. And these bunnies 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.920 were like dressed like wonder Woman or like having sword 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.760 battles with other bunnies riding a bunny, you know, And 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.840 I was like what, But they were delightful, man, they 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.719 were delightful and they lifted me and I was like, 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:44.880 how is this happening? And so I followed her and 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.960 she was doing this like while she was working on something, 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.080 she'd take a break and do these weird little quick sketches. 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.719 But it changed my life, Like it. I talked about 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.159 this with my friends all the time. It literally shifted 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.400 my perspective away from this sort of dark abyss place 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.720 I was going to. And once again, had I not 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.400 been on Twitter and following the right people, and now 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:05.360 we're kind of pals. We go back and forth. I said. 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.680 I sent her a thank you note, like I know 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.080 you weren't trying to do this, but had you not 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.280 done this, I would have been a way different place 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:15.520 last year. Thank you. And she was just what you'd 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.760 expect the lady who draws bunnies and dressed like wonder 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.680 woman to be like. And she's awesome. And that's a 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.359 Twitter connection. Um. Occasionally people yell at me or they 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.920 get mad at my political opinions, and okay, that's you, 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:29.840 you know, and I fight back. It's not like I'm 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.320 all like all gracious and Gandhia's or whatever. I go 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.760 right in on you do. But it's so funny because 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:37.000 you and I don't know how long you and I 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.480 have been following each other, yeah, while, But you know what, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.360 it's so because we were talking and I think I 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.080 think the same way about myself is like, oh no, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.560 I'm angry on there a lot, but you're actually funny 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:49.880 a lot like you. I mean, you know that, but 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.240 like I'm saying, you in your mind, but you are too. 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.120 You just do it with photography more so than I 0:06:55.160 --> 0:07:01.520 do it. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably how we followed each 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:03.880 other is one of us was being petty and shot 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.080 down somebody and put them in their place. They deserve it. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:08.800 They deserve it. But what I was gonna say is 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:11.480 that I think you're you. You're probably like me, and 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.760 that you think that you're like you, that you're tweeting 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.880 angrier than what you come across as. I just wanted 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.000 to say, you come across as very well like I 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.360 like your Twitter because it's very well rounded. Yeah, that's 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.840 what I'm trying to do. Yeah, I curated, like yeah, 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:26.120 I like I just like a lot of stuff and 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.520 there's no way well two things, let me stop. Sometimes 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.520 it's too much information just of any kind, and you 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.840 get to it. I'm like, all right, uh okay, I 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.120 gotta go like it doesn't matter. You can tell me 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.000 the greatest, most wonderful story, but it's above that line. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:41.800 I can't hear it. I can't hear it. I gotta 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.200 go away from this. And I think everyone should step 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:48.640 back because it's just Twitter, But yeah, you you can 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.040 learn a lot. I saw, like, how about this when 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.720 there's something crazy going on in Syria and the news 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.400 hasn't got anybody in there yet, my Twitter feed is 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.480 showing me people on the ground, right, so when somebody 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.440 comes up and well, this isn't happening, and I'm like, 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:05.400 I saw Ahmed put his iPhone out the window to 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.640 show me that did actually happen. So what are you 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.920 talking about? Right? That kind of stuff or brand new 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.680 things from um what do you call it? Like a 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.240 web comic that you again would never have heard of? 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.040 Post one still from You're like, oh my god, who 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:20.800 is this person? How do they paint like that? What 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.960 is and you go look right, like if you use 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.680 it right, it's doing what it's designed to be done for. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.720 It's just all these jerks coming in there going now 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.440 I can flex because no one can hit me back, right, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.120 And I feel like, let me put it like this 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:38.000 and then I'll shut up about it because Twitter and 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.960 panis for this. You know what it's like. It's like 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.720 every time um Tucker Carlson would try to have a 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.360 debate with Jon Stewart, and I'm like, look, Tucker, first 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.240 of all you're asked is mediocre? Okay, just to begin with, 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:56.560 you probably couldn't debate me. But Jon Stewart, he's not 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.840 only wicked smart, he's a professional comedian. Do you understand 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.440 the process by which a person becomes a professional comedian? 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.719 The open mic night at the end of the night 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.800 where the only people in audience are other professional comedians. 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:12.480 So if you got heckled, you're getting heckled by a pro. Okay, 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.120 So if you survive that to become a real stand up, 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.640 regular professional comedian, These regular old folks who think they're funny, 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:22.000 they're like stepping into the ring with Muhammad Ali. Right, 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.719 So you decided to go on TV right with this 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.120 guy who's literally made himself a millionaire being funny every 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.880 day and you're gonna out with him. You're an idiot. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:35.880 You just showed your triple idiot. So it's the same 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.040 kind of thing on Twitter. A lot of us, you 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.880 mean a lot of people on that it's made out 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.400 of words. A lot of us make our believing with words. 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.120 So some rando who's got a problem with women being 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.160 geeks or about different minority group being involved with Star 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:53.480 Wars or something like that, thinks he's gonna be all 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.319 clever because he made his little cabal, his little claver 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:59.640 and laugh right, And then they stepped to the wrong 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.360 person that they might not have heard of. What that 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.800 person is a pro? Done? Go away, Now go go 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:07.480 play with your children, Go play with the other child. 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:09.760 So that's the vibe I try to. I know it 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:14.840 sounds vicious, but these people are awful. I think I 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:19.079 think that I'm all for flexing. I see, maybe I'll 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:24.200 see you flexing girl. No, hell yeah, flex away, flex away. 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.480 Speaking of flexing, look, I'm going to perfectly transition list. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:34.120 You are the showrunner for Black Panther's Quest, And before 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.440 we get into the show, what was your first introduction 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:43.160 to Black Panthers? So I got a reprint, probably of 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.840 the Fantastic Fur issue where he my dad introduced me 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.520 to comics when I was probably about seven or eight, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.400 maybe maybe as old as ten young at seven, and 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:52.640 Marvel used to put out these giants sort of I 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:57.240 mean literally giant omnibus comics, not like graphic novels are today, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:59.800 like oversized weirdly, like how are you going to collect 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:03.080 this type stuff? And in that was the Fantastic Four. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:05.760 He already liked Jack Kirby, so my dad was like, 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:08.439 he likes Jack Kirby, let me give him Matt And 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.360 I don't think Panther was in that, but at some 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.679 point I came across a reprint of that story, and uh, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.880 I was okay, the black guy whatever. But I was 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.800 fascinated with the fact that his introduction was, well, here's 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.280 how I'm going to meet the Fantastic Four. I'm gonna 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.920 kick all of their access by myself, just to see 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.520 if I feel like talking to him. I was like, okay, dude, 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:34.079 wait a stepped up to the money. But then he 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.480 just became sort of a secondary character in the Avengers 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.520 for a billion years. He was just sort of like 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:40.800 from my point of view, he was the silhouette of 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:43.319 Batman without being Batman. They wanted a character that kind 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.040 of looked like Batman and this guy. Um, I mean, 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.880 we can just keep going on this. But the Black 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.360 Panther's mask used to have his face exposed for a 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.719 brief period. At his face exposed, I believe that they 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.680 shifted it to a full face covering so they could 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.000 sell the comic in the South. Um, and that he 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.360 wasn't obviously lack. You almost never saw him unmasked. He 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.520 almost never took that mask off. Even if he got 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:07.520 hit by something, his skin would never show in the 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.599 rip or whatever. That's not accidental. That's we got to 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.240 sell stuff to a very racist South in the sixties 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.360 and seven. Wasn't there a period of time when they 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.320 removed I know that he was for like one issue 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:22.240 he was the Black Leopard, Yes, to try and move 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.040 it away from being associated with the with the Black 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.680 Panther organization. But I do know also I think that 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:29.600 it was like the his one comic came out that 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:31.600 was like the history of Ta Chaula, Like they also 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.960 tried to do that to to change his name. Well, 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.280 the thing with that period of time, modern people think 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:39.560 that Stan and Jack uh saw the Black Panthers and 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.439 then made the character, but he predates them, yes, right, 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.040 especially one whole year before there you go, so um 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.400 my feeling. My guess is there was a comic book 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.080 when both Stan and Jack were kids that most people 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.520 don't know about, called All Negro Comics. All Negro Comics. 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.320 Number one only had one issue. There's a whole horrible 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.520 saga about why there was only one issue, which is 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:05.640 its own show. But inside that was a character called Lionman, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:10.360 who was an African prince who protected his country, who 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.280 had a giant mound of exotic material that people kept 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.240 trying to come get. And I can't help but think 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.000 either Stand or Jack got exposed to that comic. They're 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.920 both New York kids, they were not rich. I'm sure 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:25.000 they picked up every rando five cent one cent comic 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.760 that they could get their hands on, and it probably 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.280 flitted away and went away, and then they pulled some 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.760 of that apple because it's very similar, but it's also 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.960 not the same, so um yeah. And so then it 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.760 went into Jungle Action. They had a book called Jungle Action, 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:44.000 which nowadays I don't know if that would flop one 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:45.520 of one of us is going to have to write that. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.000 That was Don McGregor primarily, and he did a lot 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.920 of sort of taking onto the clan. Um. He was 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.480 ironically for an African king. He spent an awful lot 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.320 of time in the US fighting ratio is interesting with 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.120 a lot of superheroes. It's like, oh, these aliens, weirdly 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:08.160 all just hang out here in the United States of America. 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.080 Why wouldn't we go to China where most of the 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:15.720 human beings are New York especially um. But yeah, so 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.320 they did that for a while. He was the feature 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:19.080 in Jungle Action that kept trying to give him a 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:22.120 book and it wouldn't last and all the while while 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.280 I'm reading comics, he was always a second tier. People 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.200 pretend now that they always were into it. But if 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.600 you were, the book would have never died. So that's 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.640 a lot even you're lying, right, Um, he was a secondary. 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.040 He was there to be black. I think primarily he was. 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:37.680 I wouldn't call him as far as a token because 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.320 they always wrote him fairly well, like, he wasn't he 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.120 go iron man, He wasn't the cheerleader. He came to play, 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.680 but he was also there because we need a black 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:48.520 guy in there, just for that few black fans that 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.560 we have out there, they might want to see them. 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.480 I think stan Stan was very good about that. Yeah. 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:55.360 I think Jack Kirby also said that too in a 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.400 in an interview. I have my hands high up in 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.360 the air because I worship all things Jack Kirby. Yeah, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:01.560 Jack Kirby would say that he wanted more followers to 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.680 feel represented. He was always that way, always that way, 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:06.640 and you can tell when I mean again, we'd go 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.400 off from just on Jack. But when he split off, 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.000 when it was just him, you could see that in 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.760 his work throughout he had much more prominent women. His 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.800 women were hard, they were all based all the really 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.920 tough ones were based on his actual wife, right, um. Heed, 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.240 He integrated all of his his little teams. They were 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:26.080 unnecessarily in a sense like I'm just throwing a black dude, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.040 throwing a Heason dude. Why the hell not? And I 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.640 think it's largely because the soup that New York was 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.520 when those guys grew up was basically and it's apropos now, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.120 it was chuck full of immigrants in a different way 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.000 than it is now. Um. The immigrants were much more 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:48.040 I think widely dispersed, so there was no dominant immigrant group, right, 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.320 so everybody just climbing all on top of each other. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.120 New York is a very different kind of city in 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.960 that regard than as you go further west, it becomes 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:57.960 more and more segregated from my point of view, and 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.080 obviously South, but in New York, yeah, you get broken 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.560 up by neighborhood. But everybody's kind of on top of 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:05.360 each other all the time. So even if you don't 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.480 like the next person, you've got to get along with them. 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.880 You just have to where the city won't work. I 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:12.920 don't know if it's like that now, but I guarantee 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:14.560 it was like that when those boys were coming up. 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.600 This is probably aging us giving our age away. But 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:22.120 when I would watch and this animated show is the 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:23.800 first one that I saw that really did that was 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.960 Hey Arnold. Do you remember that Hey Arnold had one 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:31.480 of the most diverse cast that I can remember in cartoons, 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.040 And yeah, that was on purpose, but that was exactly 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.480 what you were talking about, um, And it was all 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.920 different types of immigrant families and and and immigrants coming 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.520 together in in that And I did I did love 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.680 that a lot. I think that's where Henson got The 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.160 Henson Company started with Street for that. Their model was 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.800 New York Street. In New York Street, it just had 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.400 muppets on it, you know. Um so yeah, So the 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.840 Black Panther rolls for a long long time is sort 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.240 of you know, in the mid to late seventies, and 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.200 they tried with Jungle Action. They gave him a little 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.320 mini series here and there. He was perennial in the 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:09.840 in the Avengers, he was on a lot of the 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.119 different rosters in the Avengers, but again kind of just 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.280 there to be black. He doesn't really have the juice 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:17.639 that they started him out with right when they started 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.720 about taking on the whole fantom which, to correct myself, 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.520 the cover that The Fantastic for he appeared in came 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.919 out in July six, nineteen sixty six, and Black Panther 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.160 was created in October sixty six and not even a year. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.720 So he's like there's something in the in the air, 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:36.320 in the air, I like to imagine it was just 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.160 like Hughie be like, Huie, what were gonna name this group? 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:46.160 And look over to their stack. This works yeah black yeah, man, 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.160 oh man. I wanted to be the spot of man 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.280 so that won't work. That doesn't sell our our political 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.280 point of all. Right, but the spot of man's would 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.000 be cool. I'm not mad at your brother did You're right, 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:59.000 it would be cool. But you know, we could be 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:05.920 the Black Panthers. Let's ladies would be the Black Panther 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:10.160 or the Spider Man. They're like, are you your fool's fools? 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.280 Clearly it's Black Panther. Um, so that happened, right. They 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:16.840 did that for a while. Um, really up until either 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.119 the I guess it's the late eighties or the early nineties, 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.560 when Christopher Priest, uh, he shows up and I mean 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.520 his issue I remember what issue number it was. But 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.200 when he revealed what the Black Panther have been doing 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.520 all this time, if there had been an Internet back then, 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.760 it would have burned down that day because he basically 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.000 was like, wait, I'm not with you all, I'm in 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.200 spying on you all the star It's like, wait, what 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.280 it's like, No, No, I'm the king of a Nathan 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.920 What are you stupid? Of course you guys are crazy powerful. 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.879 Why would I play the backfield all these times? Dude? 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.480 Come on, now what I look like? Right? But it 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:55.800 was like and they were all like, oh, like even 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:59.200 in the book, right, Priest wrote it like the adventures 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:03.240 were like, wait, what are our friendly to challow? You know, 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.280 He's like, man, I'm a king. I've been telling you 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.960 this for thirty years. I'm a king. I do kings 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.840 stuff like and that just blew the doors off. And 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.960 I also feel like that kind of model to shallow 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:20.080 we know and love to he took. Basically, it was 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:22.679 almost like the and nothing against McGregor, who I met 0:19:22.720 --> 0:19:25.240 and as a lovely guy and did great stuff for 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.679 the time period in which he is. But it's almost 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.320 like Priests reached back to that first issue of Fantastic 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.880 four and said, nope, that guy. And I was like, 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:36.320 oh my god, how they're gonna kill him? Why he's 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.399 gonna die? They're gonna kill the black panther. There's no 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.320 way he survives after that. He's gonna be a villain, 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:43.440 now what. I was ready to be outraged, Right, They're 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.240 gonna pick the black panther, but no, and it's stuck 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.360 and it it resonated. It was like he became unique. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.119 I think in that moment his blackness wasn't the uniqueness factor. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.600 It was this is a different kind of hero than 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.000 you've seen before. Right, the closest thing would have been 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.520 nay more this the Mariner. But he has always played 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.199 as a villain. Yeah right, he's sort of a what 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:08.119 is it chaotic? He was lawful evil yeah right, So, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.840 which to me is fascinating that to Chala didn't end 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.000 up being that since he was technically fighting against the heroes, 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:17.359