Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that he's as good as he
Speaker 1: is because he's got so much going on in his life.
Speaker 1: Guys do not play better once they get super involved
Speaker 1: in the politics of the Patriot Jury.
Speaker 2: That got Daughts in my head.
Speaker 3: Can't get him John, and not the thing, well I'm
Speaker 3: thinking about, can't get him out, John, Not the thing
Speaker 3: what I'm thinking about.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to our fire Drill podcast. I am
Speaker 2: delighted to be joined by Michael Bamberger, who at this
Speaker 2: moment is in Philadelphia, but he will be at Royal
Speaker 2: Liverpool before we know it. Michael, thanks for squeezing in
Speaker 2: the little podcast here.
Speaker 1: You know you have a good time talking about the
Speaker 1: Open Championship aka shpen And tell the people about the
Speaker 1: time that Mark Moulvoy sent you over there with a
Speaker 1: few hundred quid to gamble away.
Speaker 2: Well, no, it was actually was a thousand. It's probably
Speaker 2: the greatest boondoggle in the history of sports journalism. I
Speaker 2: convinced the SI editors because if you've been to the Open,
Speaker 2: any fans would know this punting, as they call it,
Speaker 2: is a big part of the fabric of the event.
Speaker 2: And these little towns, there's little there's betting parlors on
Speaker 2: every corner, or so it seems, and you can and
Speaker 2: this this okay, also say this is like the nineties,
Speaker 2: This is way before smartphones, where betting was so easy
Speaker 2: and ubiquitous like it was. This was to bet on
Speaker 2: the open, you kind of had to be over there, right,
Speaker 2: and uh, it was, it was. It was part of
Speaker 2: the conversation. There's all these different bets you could do.
Speaker 2: And so I this is probably I'm sure I violated
Speaker 2: the laws of various nation states. But I was talking
Speaker 2: up caddies, swing coaches, gleaning all kinds of insider information
Speaker 2: and to place my bets. It was fantastic even so,
Speaker 2: and I was.
Speaker 1: How about the chime ink ethics guideline?
Speaker 2: Nobody cares about that was Michael, give me a break.
Speaker 2: So at the end of like three days of reckless
Speaker 2: you know, betting, I still had I think maybe seven
Speaker 2: hundred pounds left. I'd lost three hundred, although actually I
Speaker 2: snatched an emergency like one hundred pounds out of John
Speaker 2: Garretty's wallet, so I was actually I was wagering eleven hundred. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love Juggert and so but I had this moment
Speaker 2: of clarity on the last night, I was like, well,
Speaker 2: this isn't my money anyway, no one, how can I'm
Speaker 2: not that invested. If I lose at all, who cares?
Speaker 2: This is time ink money. So I said to our
Speaker 2: beloved editor Jim Harry, I said, I need something. I
Speaker 2: need a payoff here. So how much would it cost
Speaker 2: to take the whole staff to Bandon Dunes for a boondoggle?
Speaker 2: And he said fifteen thousand dollars US. So that was
Speaker 2: like whatever in those days, twelve thousand pounds or I
Speaker 2: did the math. So I went to the betting haul
Speaker 2: the next morning, and I'm the dude sleeping in the doorway.
Speaker 2: Guys don't have teeth. It is not a prosperous looking crowd.
Speaker 2: And I said to the nice young lady, I said, okay,
Speaker 2: I need to engineer a parlay so I can win
Speaker 2: whatever twelve thousand pounds. And so what you can do
Speaker 2: over there is I'm sure you still can. But in
Speaker 2: those days, on the weekend, there was two balls and
Speaker 2: you would just you would just pick who's going to
Speaker 2: in the players who were paired together. You would have
Speaker 2: the lowest score. It's a very simple bet. But if
Speaker 2: they tie, you lose. So so I went through it
Speaker 2: and had I had run around the night before, talking
Speaker 2: to all these people, kind of had it in my
Speaker 2: mind who I wanted to bet on, and anyway it was.
Speaker 2: It wound up being a six tiered parlay, six different pairings,
Speaker 2: and I won the first one, I won the second one,
Speaker 2: I won the third one. At this point, I was
Speaker 2: having trouble breathing. I was so excited. I didn't care
Speaker 2: who won the Open Championship. All that mattered was the
Speaker 2: bet and Michael, as you remember, people were tuned into
Speaker 2: this in the press tent because I was talking about
Speaker 2: it all week. I won the fourth bet, I won
Speaker 2: the fifth bet. So now we are on the precipice
Speaker 2: of going to Bandon Dunes like all of us, and
Speaker 2: me becoming an everlasting legend in the annals of sports
Speaker 2: journalism Open Championship punting, and god knows what else I
Speaker 2: would have done with the money if we'd won.
Speaker 1: And so you could be Jason Soble today had this.
Speaker 2: Twenty years ago, Soble and so the last. But I
Speaker 2: was also reporting the story because I wrote this whole
Speaker 2: thing up. So I was running into the locker room
Speaker 2: and in the parking lot trying to get players. And
Speaker 2: so finally I get out to the last hole for
Speaker 2: the last bet, and right behind the clubhouse, about three
Speaker 2: steps off the green, it was Ob and the last
Speaker 2: bet it was Nick Prey. Yeah, what's that?
Speaker 1: Are yell with them?
Speaker 2: Where Todd Hamilton beat Ernie L's This is O four?
Speaker 1: I think maybe Truon?
Speaker 2: Was it Truon? God? No, my brain joke Meal, Michael,
Speaker 2: you're killing my momentum. It doesn't even matter where we are.
Speaker 1: Keep it going.
Speaker 2: Behind the last green. Two steps over the green is Ob.
Speaker 2: And so I run out to eighteen and my two guys.
Speaker 2: There's whistling and buzzling. Someone has gone long over the green.
Speaker 2: Their ball is one foot out of bounds. And I
Speaker 2: had chosen Nick Price to win this two ball and
Speaker 2: it was kJ Choy. If CHOI has gone out of bounds,
Speaker 2: I've won and I've become a legend. And so asking
Speaker 2: whose ball is at No one's really paying attention. They're
Speaker 2: not in contention. You know, there's not a lot of
Speaker 2: people there. They're walking down the middle of the fairway.
Speaker 2: You can't tell from their body language their stride for stride.
Speaker 2: It was the longest like two hundred yard walk in
Speaker 2: the history of golf. And finally, you know, Choi peels
Speaker 2: off into the front bunker to play a shot, Price
Speaker 2: goes back and retrieves his ball with a shrug. And
Speaker 2: so I lost the last vet and we didn't go
Speaker 2: to Bandon Dunes. But it's probably the most one I've
Speaker 2: ever had on assignment.
Speaker 1: That's great. It was, it was, And you're right, that's
Speaker 1: very tight there.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's unbelievable. But yeah, I mean, those
Speaker 2: are the little things that make the open so fun.
Speaker 2: That was little, that wasn't little. But you know, do
Speaker 2: you remember, do you remember, Michael, when we went at
Speaker 2: Carnoustie when your man Francesco Mollinari won. It's Sunday. We
Speaker 2: don't like to complain about the press room food because
Speaker 2: the people don't care if they don't want to hear it.
Speaker 2: But the pressroom food at the open is always suboptimal.
Speaker 2: And so it's Sunday. Everything's gone, they're out of everything.
Speaker 2: We're all grinding on deadline. And there's a fish and
Speaker 2: chips dude who goes to every open. He's got this
Speaker 2: little trailer and it's the best fish and chips in
Speaker 2: the World. I walked out there and I got three
Speaker 2: fish and chips, one for me, one for you. I
Speaker 2: can't remember where the third person was.
Speaker 1: Very likely guaranty you was a fisher chip so file,
Speaker 1: but maybe not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to remember. And so I'm carrying this
Speaker 2: tray with three loaded down fish and chips and it's
Speaker 2: it's precarious and I'm walking and Tim Michelson comes by
Speaker 2: and he was mad about something. He's like, he's barking
Speaker 2: at me about something I had written earlier in the year,
Speaker 2: and I just looked at him. So dump and I said, Tim,
Speaker 2: do you want some chips? I got lots of chips. Here,
Speaker 2: take some chips. And he looked at me. I looked
Speaker 2: at him. I just kept walking. He was so random
Speaker 2: and funny. But we ate the fish and chips. Our
Speaker 2: fingers were oily and it helped us type. They were
Speaker 2: well lubricated and we got through the night. So, Michael,
Speaker 2: what do you love about the open? And we should
Speaker 2: say that. Let me just say this. Our colleigue, Jack
Speaker 2: McCallum at Sports Illustrated decades ago tabbed Michael the Poet
Speaker 2: oh links Land, and to this day it lives on
Speaker 2: in a certain subset of sports illustrated. Yeah, people, Just a.
Speaker 1: Little background on that, because McCallum was is an NBA
Speaker 1: Hall of is in the NBA Hall of Fame as
Speaker 1: a basketball writer. And he used to have an annual
Speaker 1: tournament at his golf course, the Bethlehem Uni, and Alan
Speaker 1: played in and I played in a bunch and he
Speaker 1: had a little skinny line for each contestant. Mind I
Speaker 1: was annually uh poeto links Land. But then m dash
Speaker 1: will heave hagis when he sees the Bethlehem Muni was
Speaker 1: so little traveled in golf, he doesn't know how good
Speaker 1: the Bethlin Muni is.
Speaker 2: It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: So Trump and I, mccalm and I are one's playing
Speaker 1: the Trump. I think the Westchester Trump Westchester Course, and
Speaker 1: I said, Jack, this course is so much better. Excuse me.
Speaker 1: The Bethle Muni is so much better than this Trump
Speaker 1: Westchester course with the fire with the I said, fireworks,
Speaker 1: but I might as well be fireks. But with the
Speaker 1: you know, the the waterfalls and the Hamburgers and the
Speaker 1: cart paths and all the rest. And McCollum's like, you're
Speaker 1: shitting me, right, I said no, absolutely, literally, Bethlehem, Muni
Speaker 1: is a way way better at golf course. Now, of
Speaker 1: course all this is subjective, and you know it goes
Speaker 1: by taste and other things. But McCollum was a great
Speaker 1: spirit of many, many things, and part of it was
Speaker 1: this uh uh, this anal tournament. I would say, Alan
Speaker 1: one of the truest. And I don't know who wrote it,
Speaker 1: but let's just say we ever have written collectively. Is
Speaker 1: when we have a fan in the Swinger talking to
Speaker 1: Tree Tremont, who's a contestant in an Open Championship British
Speaker 1: Open as I call it, and the fan says, you
Speaker 1: cannot play without the magic drugs, can you? And that's
Speaker 1: really the reason we like that line, Alan was. It's true.
Speaker 1: That's what that spirit that's like the Masters is the Masters.
Speaker 1: It's a whole thing onto itself. It's a whole culture.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. The US Open is a different culture.
Speaker 1: Of the three majors, the Open, British Open, whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it, it has the most bringing everybody,
Speaker 1: literally bringing everybody, kids galore, royals, all time, landed gentry,
Speaker 1: but also a lot of regular punters and pensioners and
Speaker 1: drinkers and and people's not screaming stuff that's stupid, just
Speaker 1: like commenting intelligently. So when they speak about really really
Speaker 1: intelligent galleries, these are the most intelligent, passionate galleries in
Speaker 1: the world. The golf courses are the best in the world,
Speaker 1: even like a boring course like Royal Liverpool is so
Speaker 1: great you can't believe it. Any one of these golf
Speaker 1: courses for my taste, the least of them, which people
Speaker 1: say is we're all Saint George's, which is insane, because
Speaker 1: we're all Saint George's is such an interesting, tricky, difficult,
Speaker 1: fun hard golf course is so much better than anything
Speaker 1: we have in the United States because quote, I guess
Speaker 1: I'm quoting myself, and I know what I'm using. The
Speaker 1: word quote for it's golf is it's meant to be played.
Speaker 1: You can play it on the ground, you can play
Speaker 1: it in the air. You gotta stay short of the traps.
Speaker 1: If you get out of the traps, you better get
Speaker 1: out and warn it de emphasizes putting Alan and I
Speaker 1: have had, you know, more than a few evening matches
Speaker 1: where I can sort of have more of a chance
Speaker 1: to hold my own because because even though I have
Speaker 1: limited skill. I can sort of shape the ball a
Speaker 1: little bit, but I can't putt. But if you can't
Speaker 1: put you can put a slower green better than a
Speaker 1: faster And I have Brad Paxon on the phone here
Speaker 1: in a day or two, I hope to talk about
Speaker 1: the differences between putting over there and over here. I
Speaker 1: caddied for a man Peter Tarviaine and who played golf
Speaker 1: at Yale, was very good Teita Green and could make
Speaker 1: a living on the European Tour because those greens. And
Speaker 1: of course you know some similar to the greens is
Speaker 1: Golle de emphasized putting by de emphasizing speed. So I
Speaker 1: think just overall, you know you hit you, you know
Speaker 1: you've got us off on the right foot. Just talking
Speaker 1: about the punters and your own gambling experience, it's just super, super,
Speaker 1: super spirited, and I really do love everything about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, if I could only win one major, maybe
Speaker 1: it would be the Masters because of that neat clebbiness
Speaker 1: and you're there for life, and that's cool, and we're American,
Speaker 1: but it's the greatest of the three majors.
Speaker 2: Well, and just the scale of it, I mean, there's
Speaker 2: nothing like that Canyon of grand stands around eighteen that
Speaker 2: they every year put up, and there's this an expansiveness
Speaker 2: to the golf courses a lot of obviously some of
Speaker 2: the American courses now have taken out trees and they're
Speaker 2: a little more open in their field, but the seaside
Speaker 2: Links have always had that where you can stand at
Speaker 2: a certain points you can see the whole golf course
Speaker 2: and you can see the fans and where they're clustering,
Speaker 2: and there there's the fan villages, the infrastructure, they everything
Speaker 2: is just it just feels grand over there. Not ostentatious,
Speaker 2: but just as opposite of that. It's simple, but it's
Speaker 2: this is the sort of the championship of the world,
Speaker 2: and it has that feeling and I always love that.
Speaker 1: Can you remember your first experience playing Links golf?
Speaker 2: Oh God, yes, So it was nineteen ninety six. I
Speaker 2: was living in New York. I just started I just
Speaker 2: graduated UCLA, and I was I'd started out at Sports
Speaker 2: Illustrated and there was a whole group of SI folks
Speaker 2: who annually would go over to Scotland. You know, some
Speaker 2: of them, Greg Kelly, Meryl Noden, terrific writer, and just
Speaker 2: some of their friends, and so Matt, Janelle and I
Speaker 2: went together and we flew overnight and we went and
Speaker 2: we played Royal Aberdeen, which has hosted various championships and
Speaker 2: it's a terrific golf course. I'm embarrassed to say I
Speaker 2: really didn't know that much about the courses in Scotland.
Speaker 2: I had not done my due diligence. I was blissfully ignorant.
Speaker 2: And we got out in the parking lot and it
Speaker 2: was cold and rainy and scrambling and put clothes and
Speaker 2: layers on and we went out in that front nine
Speaker 2: at Aberdeen. It's just an incredible sort of moonscape and
Speaker 2: I was blown away by all of it. And then
Speaker 2: the next day we played thirty six holes at Cruden Bay,
Speaker 2: which remains my favorite golf course in the world, and
Speaker 2: it was and I actually I played great. I still
Speaker 2: remember some of the shots I hit there like it
Speaker 2: was one of the occasions. But I just in control
Speaker 2: of my golf ball. And you know that Cruden Bay,
Speaker 2: you've got that blind part three, you have to hook
Speaker 2: it around a dune. Then there's a thirty dog part three. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't even know where you're going. I'm like what
Speaker 2: am I doing? And there's that, and right before that
Speaker 2: there's the par four with the blind Green that's down
Speaker 2: in that incredible dell. I guess it's just and some
Speaker 2: of the views and you've got Bramstoker's Castle and there's
Speaker 2: driveable par fours and there's super long hard Part three's
Speaker 2: and everything, and cruden Bay just completely changed my whole
Speaker 2: feeling about golf. Aberdeen was was terrific and just the
Speaker 2: turf and the shots and everything, but cruden Bay was
Speaker 2: like almost a religious experience for me. And play it
Speaker 2: twice and it was just I've never been happier in
Speaker 2: my life. And I still fantasize about there's some nice
Speaker 2: houses right there on the hill and going over there
Speaker 2: and living in cruden Bay. And by the way, the
Speaker 2: food at the clubhouse there was terrific. I still remember
Speaker 2: that as well, which was not always the case, as
Speaker 2: previously discussed in this podcast. And it's just such a
Speaker 2: charming you know, the course is in the town. When
Speaker 2: you're playing the first couples, it feels like you could
Speaker 2: reach into someone's kitchen and take the pie off their shelf.
Speaker 2: You know. It's just it's so intimate and I think
Speaker 2: about going over there, playing golf every day right in
Speaker 2: the Great American novel whatever, and just living there for
Speaker 2: six months. And I'm still I'm gonna do it at
Speaker 2: some point in my life because it remains and I've
Speaker 2: been back and my feelings run changed. I think it's
Speaker 2: the most magical golf course ever played. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: that that trip was a barnburner. We played like sixteen
Speaker 2: rounds and nine days and got to all different corners
Speaker 2: and me and Janella had an unbelievable experience at the
Speaker 2: old course where we showed up. I've ever told the
Speaker 2: story on the podcast. Do you know this story, Michael?
Speaker 1: We don't.
Speaker 2: We get to the starter shack and it was this.
Speaker 1: Old it's a handicapp.
Speaker 2: We didn't have proof of handicaps. We just didn't know.
Speaker 2: We hadn't been there. And of course now you would
Speaker 2: just pull out your phone and show them your gin,
Speaker 2: but this is nineteen ninety six. It's all analog. And
Speaker 2: so I'll tell the story briefly because we're getting off track.
Speaker 2: But and we we were there as as singles, so
Speaker 2: it's like whatever, six in the morning. We didn't have it.
Speaker 2: We didn't have a tea time there, maybe seven am
Speaker 2: at the latest. And the guy says, well, if you
Speaker 2: can produce it's like I could get you out, but
Speaker 2: you'll need to produce proof of handicap. So we're like, God,
Speaker 2: what do we do. It's you know, it's two in
Speaker 2: the morning in New York, it's eleven at night in California, Like,
Speaker 2: how can we do this? But Matt's brother, Sean lived
Speaker 2: in Hawaii, so it's like eight pm there, and we're like,
Speaker 2: let's call Sean. And so we call Sean and we
Speaker 2: tell them what's going on, like we need you to
Speaker 2: like make a phony letter attaching to our handicaps. And
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, I'm all. He's like he loved it.
Speaker 2: He was all in. So he lived in He's on
Speaker 2: the north shore of Owahoo near Turtle Bay. So he
Speaker 2: created a and I think he had a background in graphics,
Speaker 2: graphic cards. He made this letterhead for the Turtle Bay
Speaker 2: Country Club. There's a Turtle Bay golf course, but it's
Speaker 2: not a private club, and he wrote I had these letters.
Speaker 2: He wrote like paragraphs about me and Matt, like all
Speaker 2: what upstanding citizens we were, and that we'd founded all
Speaker 2: these programs at the club. And we held all these
Speaker 2: titles and it was so preposterous. I think I was scratched.
Speaker 2: Matt was like, you know, one point too. It was
Speaker 2: ridiculous anyway, and he faxed it in. They had they
Speaker 2: had a fax in the starters shack, probably for Jabbroni's
Speaker 2: like us, and I'll never forget this old Scottish dude
Speaker 2: wrapping on the glass. Gentlemen, your paperwork has been received.
Speaker 2: And we went out and played, and then we played
Speaker 2: together and we had a blast, and when you walk
Speaker 2: off the old course, all you want he was played again,
Speaker 2: and so we went back to the dude like we
Speaker 2: played again, and he's like, well, sure. Then we had
Speaker 2: to split up, but it was just had a couple
Speaker 2: of spots for singles. So I played with a couple
Speaker 2: of pilots American They were like these Texas dudes, airline pilots.
Speaker 2: And then I can't remember our fourth was, but that
Speaker 2: was also glorious. I mean, you played thirty six on
Speaker 2: the old Course, and you know, we started there before
Speaker 2: the sun came up and line and for the singles,
Speaker 2: and then we finished it at sunset, you know, with
Speaker 2: the twinkling lights of the town and yeah, that trip.
Speaker 2: That trip changed my life without that's.
Speaker 1: Neat Alan You you you worked as a car boy
Speaker 1: and you've played Pebble Beach a bunch over the years.
Speaker 1: You've been there for tournaments many times, you've been abandoned
Speaker 1: many times. You've played up and down the East Coast.
Speaker 1: Have you played Shinnecock Hills?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, played National Golf Links.
Speaker 2: Played on on the same day. That was epic. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You play Fishers Island.
Speaker 2: Number one on my on my to do list.
Speaker 1: Have you played Sancity Ahead that's number six. So so
Speaker 1: here here's my question for you. Do you think there
Speaker 1: is links golf? And you've played in Australia. You've been
Speaker 1: in Australia, I have not. You've been to Royal Melbourne
Speaker 1: and other places. Do you think links golf exists beyond
Speaker 1: the Kingdom.
Speaker 2: There's elements of it, but the difference is the turf,
Speaker 2: Like it's just the way the ball runs and skidders.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't. Bandon has that. If you catch it
Speaker 2: at the right time of year, you know it can
Speaker 2: get it can get green there and it can it
Speaker 2: can be almost a little lush, but you know Bandon
Speaker 2: is built on that incredible sandy soil, but like National
Speaker 2: National Golf Links has some elements of it. But when
Speaker 2: I and I haven't played there in a long time,
Speaker 2: but the grass was too long in the fairways. It
Speaker 2: ball didn't didn't didn't bounce and run and roll, and
Speaker 2: you know, I remember I was doing before Tom Watson
Speaker 2: played his last to open at St. Andrew's a couple
Speaker 2: months out of the tournament. I flew over there to
Speaker 2: do this this story on him, and we were in
Speaker 2: the Old Course hotel. He done some other interviews that day,
Speaker 2: and he was restless. He's like, let's go for a walk,
Speaker 2: and so we we we left the whole Old Course
Speaker 2: hotel and we we kind of just skittered through the
Speaker 2: you know, and Watson is a ranch hand. He was
Speaker 2: very adept, like climbing through this fence. It was fun
Speaker 2: to see for an old guy. And we got out
Speaker 2: there in the seventeenth ferry the road hole and he's
Speaker 2: like tapping his toe on the turf and you could
Speaker 2: hear it. He's like, this turf, there's just nothing like it.
Speaker 2: And who said with almost lust it was fantastic. And
Speaker 2: that to me is the big difference, right, It's just
Speaker 2: the way the ball reacts. So I think Bandon to
Speaker 2: me is probably the closest you've played. You've played Sancing
Speaker 2: Ahead and you played Fishers, Like, how do you answer
Speaker 2: that question?
Speaker 1: You know, I always thought the answer was no, But
Speaker 1: then I had Tom Doak on the phone the other day.
Speaker 1: We were talking about various things and I posed this
Speaker 1: very question to him, and anybody who knows Tom Doak
Speaker 1: knows that he gets to the heart of the matter
Speaker 1: very efficiently. I said, Tom, do you think there's a
Speaker 1: links golf beyond the United States? He said yes. I said, well,
Speaker 1: what would be an example of a links golf course?
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I misspoke. Do you think there's slings golf
Speaker 1: beyond the noun kingdom? He said yes. I said, is
Speaker 1: there lnks golf in the United States? He said yes.
Speaker 1: Said what would be an example of it? He said, Nebraska. Wow,
Speaker 1: I mean it's like one thousand miles from the nearest
Speaker 1: seer Ocean.
Speaker 2: Okay, So you know, I almost I almost threw bally
Speaker 2: Neil into the conversation because that's not Nebraska, but it's
Speaker 2: the northeast corner of Colorado and that they call the
Speaker 2: chop Hills, and yeah, So his.
Speaker 1: Answer is your His answer is your answer for for
Speaker 1: the same reason. When the turf conditions are linksy, it's
Speaker 1: links golf. Now, I would say I was probably looking
Speaker 1: at it more technically like links golf is golf that's
Speaker 1: played on links land. Links Land is that very particular,
Speaker 1: almost particular in Scotland, but not unique to Scotland completely
Speaker 1: where it's literally the edge of the sea and the
Speaker 1: and the land and it's it's no good for agriculture.
Speaker 1: You can't really grow anything on it because the lanceu sandy,
Speaker 1: but you can grow grass on it. And it's humpy
Speaker 1: and hollowy and windblown. And that's linksland. And when you
Speaker 1: put a golf on golf course you can have and
Speaker 1: there is if you go to Mirrorfield, there's several hundred
Speaker 1: acres of absolutely pure dune land links land right next
Speaker 1: to Mirfield that's undeveloped, but it is links land. And
Speaker 1: if you put a golf course there, then you have
Speaker 1: a links golf course. Macrohonish of course. Famous sample links
Speaker 1: golf you know are goldsby Ealy, all famous examples roughness
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, uh So, but Duke's
Speaker 1: point is really a great point. You could argue this
Speaker 1: is a key aspect, but it's a great point. It's
Speaker 1: your point. It's the firmness of the turf. Now we
Speaker 1: have been you and I both have been to opens
Speaker 1: when the summer's been lush and it's still for four
Speaker 1: days and it doesn't play like Links golf at all.
Speaker 1: But of course it's still Links golf, but just not
Speaker 1: the under the normal conditions. But it's interesting how many
Speaker 1: great golfers, including Jones, Snead and Watson. I can definitely
Speaker 1: cite those three. I'm sure there's many many others who
Speaker 1: didn't warm to the whole thing from the get go.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a famous Tom Watson story where in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five he's going to play in his first Open.
Speaker 1: He would have been about let's say he's born forty nine,
Speaker 1: so he'd been about twenty five, and he goes to
Speaker 1: He and Hubert Green and John Mahffey they go up
Speaker 1: to Carnousti and they can't get on the course. You know,
Speaker 1: it's Scotland. It's really weird Scotland, as you know Alan,
Speaker 1: because they're really loose people in some ways, and then
Speaker 1: they're really really by the book in other ways, and
Speaker 1: that's not good for us the way we like it
Speaker 1: wasn't good for Watson on this Sunday. So they said, okay,
Speaker 1: well they got in the car, they went down I
Speaker 1: may be mispronouncing, and helped me Alan, you know, if
Speaker 1: you know what Manafith is, of course down the road exactly.
Speaker 1: And so you know, Watson kills his down one. Everyone's like,
Speaker 1: good shot, good shot to get out there. No golf ball,
Speaker 1: I can't find it anywhere. It's supposed to be the
Speaker 1: middle of the fairway. And Watson's like, I don't know
Speaker 1: about this link's golf. And then there's you know famous
Speaker 1: Sam Steed story taking a train into the into Saint Andrews's.
Speaker 1: He says to the guy next to him in the train,
Speaker 1: he said, what's that over there? What's the over there?
Speaker 1: That old abandoned golf course? And the guy says, that's
Speaker 1: the old course, mom, that's where they're playing the open,
Speaker 1: you know, And then Jones walked off over the other examples,
Speaker 1: there are other examples. But my thing was a little
Speaker 1: bit like your thing. I was ready to like it
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of bad I do golf
Speaker 1: in the Kingdom and how much we love that book,
Speaker 1: and how much we love Michael Murphy and his experience
Speaker 1: playing Link golf Links Golf and watching a lot of
Speaker 1: open golf before it went over there. But then I
Speaker 1: caddied in eighty five in the qualify a roll sink
Speaker 1: ports for the open next door of roll Saint George's,
Speaker 1: and I was like, it was blowing and it was great.
Speaker 1: I thought it was just just great. And then I
Speaker 1: then I played it shortly after. I loved it right
Speaker 1: away and and sometimes won. I'm playing here, it's like
Speaker 1: it just actually feels like a different game, especially because Alan,
Speaker 1: You've made this point many times. There's you know, one
Speaker 1: of the starting points for club golf over there is
Speaker 1: that you can go on the website now that there
Speaker 1: are websites and sign up for a tea time. There's
Speaker 1: no really, there's no, truly, truly, I can't think of
Speaker 1: one golf course that isn't open to visit or play there.
Speaker 2: The only one I know was basically Loch Loman, and
Speaker 2: that's the least Scottish golf course there is. And and
Speaker 2: even then we I've that may have changed, but that
Speaker 2: was the hardest one. To get ironically because it's I
Speaker 2: would have.
Speaker 1: Sorry, loch Loman, don't even care. I wouldn't want to exactly.
Speaker 2: It was trying to be something they was trying to
Speaker 2: be an American private club in Scotland. Discordant but right right, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's funny. I was just talking to someone about about
Speaker 2: Bandon Dunes and the Uncle Tony Invitational. We used to
Speaker 2: play it in July, that's annual trip that Janella organizes,
Speaker 2: and it was really windy. It was twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: miles every day. And now we've moved it to the
Speaker 2: fall and it's much more benign and you were all
Speaker 2: scoring better in the fall. But it was more fun
Speaker 2: in the summer because those courses were built for wind
Speaker 2: and it just made it so much more interesting. And
Speaker 2: there was some holes there that just had you quaking
Speaker 2: in your soft spikes. And now without the wind, they're
Speaker 2: still challenging, but it's not the same thing, and it's
Speaker 2: sort of I mean, it can be hard to play
Speaker 2: over in Scotland. Those those lives are so tight. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a times when you hit you hit it up
Speaker 2: near the green you have to go over a bunker.
Speaker 2: You know, there's no ground game sometimes where you leave
Speaker 2: yourself and it's like there's no grass under there, and
Speaker 2: it's terrifying, and you know you've got these huge crosswinds
Speaker 2: and when the fescue gets long and can be hard
Speaker 2: to find your ball. It's not the easiest golf to
Speaker 2: play when you're not used to it. But when when
Speaker 2: you when you start, when you start finding the rhythm
Speaker 2: of it, it's just so much fun. There's so much
Speaker 2: going on in every shot, and it's just it's really
Speaker 2: a thrilling way to play.
Speaker 1: You really nailed the key difference. And this is true
Speaker 1: at every level, and to some degree, this is true
Speaker 1: at Augusta National, even though it's the antithesis of what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. If you've ever if you've ever, have
Speaker 1: you ever been in a Marriott, you know the high
Speaker 1: rise Mariot where it's got the thin carpet and then
Speaker 1: there's the cement floor underneath it. If you ever like
Speaker 1: try to do a plank under those, it's way harder
Speaker 1: there because you've got no cushioning whatsoever. But when you
Speaker 1: try to hit pit shots off those carpets, which I'm
Speaker 1: sure we've all done, everybody our listener, and you and
Speaker 1: me and everybody else. Jake, Uh, It's like if you
Speaker 1: catch it right off the carpet, it's the most satisfying
Speaker 1: thing in the world because it's like ball, carpet, cement
Speaker 1: all in one. That is basically links golf. Because if
Speaker 1: you don't catch it, if you catch the carpet first,
Speaker 1: then it bounces off the cement and you catch the
Speaker 1: way that's a duff, that's an X. And then if
Speaker 1: you thin it or thicket or whatever it's, it's you
Speaker 1: can't get away with anything there but a clean strike.
Speaker 1: And that's really where the legend of Seve became the
Speaker 1: legend of Seve, for the purity of the strike. And
Speaker 1: of course it's no mistake at all that Tom Watson,
Speaker 1: even though it was a great putter and made his name,
Speaker 1: I'm putting, but the ball striking was so clean because
Speaker 1: and the lie is so thin. It's no mistake at
Speaker 1: all that guys who play well at Augusta and dry
Speaker 1: conditions which you haven't had in some decades now, and
Speaker 1: and and open conditions are very very similar. It's I
Speaker 1: think you're really getting to the crux of the thing.
Speaker 1: Alan when you talk about firmness of turf. And that's
Speaker 1: what Doake was saying about Nebraska, or you know many
Speaker 1: other places as well, by the way, including hundreds of
Speaker 1: municipal golf courses throughout the Midwest that don't have expensive
Speaker 1: watering systems.
Speaker 2: But then those places, the greens are often soft, like
Speaker 2: they overwater the and no other part of the course
Speaker 2: gets any water, and it's like that doesn't quite hold up.
Speaker 1: But there is a missing, a huge missing ingredient to this,
Speaker 1: which is Peter Alice's phrase in sight and sound of
Speaker 1: the sea. Insight and sound of the sea, The goals
Speaker 1: in the air, that heavy marine air. It's like you
Speaker 1: might throw wind and see almost nothing, but for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: when that ball gets in the air on a links
Speaker 1: golf course, a little bit of wind does a lot
Speaker 1: to hit it, and a big wind is just like
Speaker 1: forget about it. And Gardy and I were once playing
Speaker 1: night golf and Ben Crane of all people, joined us.
Speaker 1: He was a first alternate and couldn't get into the
Speaker 1: tournament and we were playing at Wallasey i think it's called,
Speaker 1: right down the road from Liverpool, and just watching him
Speaker 1: read the wind on every shot and play it appropriately
Speaker 1: and he was a straight ball hitter. He was one
Speaker 1: of the greatest straight ball hitters. Not great, great, but
Speaker 1: you know, really skillful at hitting a straight golf ball,
Speaker 1: like Jeff Maggert was at even a higher level. But
Speaker 1: he was curving the ball beautifully. And so I mean,
Speaker 1: if you talk about the really great Open players, Nicholas
Speaker 1: for the ball strike, Tiger for sure, Watson for sure.
Speaker 1: I never saw Peter Thompson, but he had to be spectacular.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen some old black and white footage of
Speaker 2: his swing on Twitter and it's it's just gorgeous. So
Speaker 2: it's easy to imagine.
Speaker 1: And how about how about Snead and Hogan. I believe
Speaker 1: this is correct. I know it's true. For Hogan, I
Speaker 1: think no, it's not entirely true for Snead. Hogan played
Speaker 1: in one Open Championship on the hardest golf course I've
Speaker 1: ever seen. I've never played at car News Team one
Speaker 1: and Snead played. Did I first Open at St Andrew's
Speaker 1: I think about forty six in one. He didn't come
Speaker 1: back for a lot of years because his joke was
Speaker 1: but it wasn't a joke. He lost money on the
Speaker 1: week and uh uh, But I mean, that's the genius
Speaker 1: of how good they were.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, and you know, I'm not I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if you got to watch much of the Scottish
Speaker 2: Open this.
Speaker 1: Did I watched a munch.
Speaker 2: I mean that shot that that Rory hit on the
Speaker 2: seventy second hold to set up the walk off birdie,
Speaker 2: that was erotic. I mean, it was.
Speaker 1: Just what was that club hitting there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That I don't know, that's a good question.
Speaker 1: I jose I was a setup. What was that cluby
Speaker 1: hitting there?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Michael, what was it?
Speaker 1: You tell me? What do you think? It was?
Speaker 2: Two iron?
Speaker 1: What's a two iron? Who even carries a two iron anymore?
Speaker 1: I think on TV they're calling it a driving iron.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just wild that the guy had a
Speaker 1: two iron without it not having a three arm, so
Speaker 1: he actually must have opened the face and take it
Speaker 1: a little bit off of it. You talk about shot making,
Speaker 1: you know, And Rory's a great, great golfer. If he
Speaker 1: never wins another major, doesn't matter. He's still going to
Speaker 1: be a great golfer. But he has one of his
Speaker 1: major's undersoft conditions. But that shot was not the shot
Speaker 1: undersoft conditions. That was a Linksland golf shot, if ever
Speaker 1: there was one, I'd been to that Renaissance course. You know,
Speaker 1: it's brand new, it was born built in two thousand,
Speaker 1: Open in two thousand and eight. I say Britta because
Speaker 1: like the new course at next to the old courses
Speaker 1: like eighteen ninety three, that's course for two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: It's a joke. But it really looked great on TV,
Speaker 1: better than I had remembered it. And it looked really winksy,
Speaker 1: and it was fantastic to see cold, miserable fans having
Speaker 1: the time, not well, not miserable, having the time of
Speaker 1: their life, but it was cold and windy and they
Speaker 1: were having a great time.
Speaker 2: That was so good for Firepit Collective dot com. He
Speaker 2: wrote a nice story about Rory's win and setting up
Speaker 2: the fact that we're going back to Royal Liverpool where
Speaker 2: he won his last Open, and that was you know this,
Speaker 2: that was peek Rory that summer when the Open went
Speaker 2: to Firestone one that then won the PGA Championship, you know,
Speaker 2: his third and fourth unbelievable.
Speaker 1: I've forgotten about Firestone, But was that in between the
Speaker 1: two or as Firestone after?
Speaker 2: I think it was in between, Yeah, right, in between,
Speaker 2: and he's been trying to recapture that ever since. It's
Speaker 2: we've been talking about Rory so much there's almost nothing
Speaker 2: left to say. I mean at this point, either he's
Speaker 2: just got to do it and we'll celebrate it. But
Speaker 2: you know, I was looking through some numbers, like that's
Speaker 2: his seventh straight top ten finish. That's the longest streak
Speaker 2: of his career, or matches it anyway, He's just playing
Speaker 2: some of his best golf at the same time. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's impossible we're going on almost a decade in his
Speaker 2: prime when he's won everything else. There's no doubt he's
Speaker 2: had a tremendous career, but it just there's something unfulfilled.
Speaker 2: And do you have any I mean, you know Rory
Speaker 2: as well better than anybody on the golf beat. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're writing about him when he first came out, and
Speaker 2: I think, Jerry McElroy, you're the one reporter he actually likes.
Speaker 2: You guys have a nice rapport. I mean, do you
Speaker 2: have any thoughts on what this week means to Rory
Speaker 2: and if there's any reason for optimism that this is
Speaker 2: going to be the one where he gets off the Schneide.
Speaker 1: You can say no, I don't want to say no.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be inredibly hard, just incredibly hard
Speaker 1: for all I mean, for all the reasons we saw.
Speaker 1: The Putt went in on eighteen. It didn't have to.
Speaker 1: He easily could not have. And then you're in a playoff,
Speaker 1: and then you're so deflated. The other guys play great
Speaker 1: to get in the playoff. You've played crappy to get
Speaker 1: in the playoff. Under those conditions, you're probably gonna lose
Speaker 1: the playoff, even though it's just a one whole playoff,
Speaker 1: which is a joke. Anyhow, I think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: really really really hard, really hard. I just it's what
Speaker 1: Arnold told me a long time ago. It's not the
Speaker 1: golf skill. It's what we saw in the tennis today.
Speaker 1: You know, Djokovic is the best, Djokovic is better than
Speaker 1: that guy. But Djokovic couldn't beat that guy today because
Speaker 1: he didn't have the gear he needed it when he
Speaker 1: needed it. And it's not the fitness gear. It's just
Speaker 1: some other gear. And Arnold talked about it without being
Speaker 1: able to identify it. And so McElroy's got all the
Speaker 1: skill in the world, but that close it out. Gene
Speaker 1: is another gene that goes way beyond skill. There's the
Speaker 1: skill from going from the driving range to the first round,
Speaker 1: the second round, the third round, but then to go
Speaker 1: to the fourth round, that's another thing, and then go
Speaker 1: to the last four holes and get it done is
Speaker 1: another thing. Of course, Tiger. We saw everything Tiger did
Speaker 1: his whole career. No one golf's never seen anybody like it.
Speaker 1: And then then you add to it all the years
Speaker 1: now of not winning. You know, having chance is in
Speaker 1: not winning another major. It looked easy when he was
Speaker 1: twenty five and he was up to four, but that's
Speaker 1: nine years ago now, and he went two in one year,
Speaker 1: and the conditions were soft when he won. I just
Speaker 1: think it's very, very, very very hard, I really do.
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing that he's as good as he
Speaker 1: is because he's got so much going on in his life.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, our friend Mac Barnhoard makes
Speaker 1: this point all the time. I know I've said it before,
Speaker 1: but it bears repeating. Guys ninety two percent of the time,
Speaker 1: if not much are do not play better. Once they
Speaker 1: get super involved in the politics of the PGA tour
Speaker 1: for whatever reason distraction.
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, Rory's been on the front lines
Speaker 2: here for a year and a half. I mean, as
Speaker 2: the leading spokesman, the chief shit stirer, the behind the
Speaker 2: scenes shot collar, like he put his heart and soul
Speaker 2: into this battle. And then you know, jay Monhan and
Speaker 2: Rory's friend Jimmy Dunn just tore open his chest cowty
Speaker 2: and ripped his heart out and stomped on it and
Speaker 2: you know, metal spikes like and you could see that
Speaker 2: at the US Open, he just looked deflate, even though
Speaker 2: he wound up playing well, but that was just like
Speaker 2: a he was still processing it. I mean, maybe maybe
Speaker 2: maybe he's unburdened now. He's like he was fighting so
Speaker 2: hard for what he thought, you know, he believed in
Speaker 2: and for this just cause and for something larger than himself,
Speaker 2: and he I could see Roy being like, you know what,
Speaker 2: screw all that, I'm just here to play golf now,
Speaker 2: and you guys just you figure it out and I'm
Speaker 2: done emotionally with this whole thing. And I don't think
Speaker 2: anybody would blame him. So maybe he's freed up. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was playing well, and he was he had made
Speaker 2: the point that because he'd put his neck on a
Speaker 2: chopping block in some ways that this that's about analogy
Speaker 2: given the whole jew politics of this, but because he'd
Speaker 2: put himself on the line here, that that was inspiring
Speaker 2: him to really grind and try and play his best.
Speaker 2: And but I think there was you know, he talked
Speaker 2: about it coming out of the Masters, like the adrenaline
Speaker 2: they've been running on ran out. And I think that
Speaker 2: I don't know this, maybe he'll just kind of freewheel
Speaker 2: it in a way that he hasn't been able to.
Speaker 2: We're always Rory. We all project so much onto him,
Speaker 2: you know, he's like, uh, and he no way lights
Speaker 2: up golf, Twitter and the whole conversation like he does.
Speaker 2: It would it would be an incredible exclamation point on
Speaker 2: this whole period and professional golf. You know, everyone sort
Speaker 2: of wanted it. At the Open, it seemed like, you know,
Speaker 2: that was that the man in the moment were perfectly aligned.
Speaker 2: Rory was gonna he was gonna win the Open. He
Speaker 2: was gonna thwart the Saudi's all of it, and of
Speaker 2: course he got run over by Cam Smith. Uh. But
Speaker 2: if you were to do it this way, it would
Speaker 2: it would just sort of bracket these these two years
Speaker 2: from from Rory's involvement, and it would be it would
Speaker 2: be satisfying, it'd be popular. And then who knows whether
Speaker 2: it's Phil Mickelson or Ben Hogan, but both those guys
Speaker 2: win their first major until they were Rory's age right now.
Speaker 2: So it's not like he doesn't have any time is
Speaker 2: still on his side. He's if he can still win
Speaker 2: another half dozen majors and put himself in you know,
Speaker 2: the conversation is one of the five or ten best
Speaker 2: players ever, it's not it's hardly too late. But every time,
Speaker 2: as you said, Michael, every time he doesn't win one,
Speaker 2: and the questions and the burden just grows. And it's
Speaker 2: always been one of my favorite stats is the length
Speaker 2: of time between a player's first and last major championship.
Speaker 2: I like, Arnold won seven in six years, and that
Speaker 2: was it, and he was done, Like it was he
Speaker 2: just flashed and burned. And you know, Tiger Jack have
Speaker 2: had these these long expanses, so did Ernie. Interestingly, some
Speaker 2: players were able to do it and do it again
Speaker 2: and do it again, and other guys that was in
Speaker 2: a very compressed period of time. And I mean right,
Speaker 2: now Rory's three was it three years from twenty eleven
Speaker 2: to twenty fourteen, Like that's a very small window. It
Speaker 2: just doesn't seem right. It doesn't seem possible. And given
Speaker 2: his he's won everything else and during this this major drought,
Speaker 2: I mean, he's won his Race to do Bay's and
Speaker 2: his FedEx Cups and the players Championships, and he's won.
Speaker 2: He's won, you know, the.
Speaker 1: Irish Open, the Scottish Open.
Speaker 2: He's won everything he can win. So it's not like
Speaker 2: he's lost any magic. It's just I don't know. I
Speaker 2: guess part of it is it's the playing conditions are
Speaker 2: more precise and there's not that room for error, and
Speaker 2: you've got to be really tight. And you know, Rory's
Speaker 2: wedge game, maybe his lag putting, maybe all these little things.
Speaker 2: He can kind of get away with it the Greater
Speaker 2: Hartford Open, he just can't get away under major conditions.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but I don't.
Speaker 1: Think it's the major. I don't think it's the major conditions.
Speaker 1: I think it's the fact that it is majors. It
Speaker 1: is the things that they all measure each other by,
Speaker 1: especially as he's gotten closer to Tiger over the years,
Speaker 1: and Tiger's conversations are all about the fifteen, not about
Speaker 1: the the other you know, sixty out events that he won.
Speaker 1: I think you just get so focused on the word majors,
Speaker 1: and you know, when you're playing those last three holes,
Speaker 1: you know it's for a major title, and there's only
Speaker 1: I mean, let's say there's four of them. There really
Speaker 1: are four of them. I do sort of put the
Speaker 1: two Opens and the Masters that quite a bit ahead
Speaker 1: of the PGA, but there are definitely four majors. I'm
Speaker 1: not being a wise guy here, I think. I think
Speaker 1: that was Arnold's point. You know, Arnold was really interesting
Speaker 1: because he was not any kind of great intellectually, wasn't
Speaker 1: a deep breader, but he was a really deep thinker
Speaker 1: about golf and other things as well. And I mean,
Speaker 1: this seems crazy, but he did say this directly to me,
Speaker 1: and there were other people in the room, and we
Speaker 1: talked about it more afterwards. When he won the nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty US Open, he was never the same after that,
Speaker 1: even though he won the sixty two sixty four Masters,
Speaker 1: right yeah, and two British Opens, So I mean, come on,
Speaker 1: in lots of tour events, and a US Senior Open,
Speaker 1: which is not easy to win. But he just said
Speaker 1: I was not the thing because that was the one,
Speaker 1: the one, one one that really meant the world to me.
Speaker 1: And so extrapolate that for the Tiger and the Rori Aer,
Speaker 1: well that one is now four. It's those four. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like Valhalla, PGA at Valhalla, how's that different from
Speaker 1: a tour event? It's not. I mean when they played
Speaker 1: in August especially, but it's a big butt and we
Speaker 1: saw a great tournament there when it was Michelson and
Speaker 1: Fowler and Macroy down the stretch. It's that trophy and
Speaker 1: it's that history and it does weigh on differently.
Speaker 2: I don't think.
Speaker 1: Joeitch would have ever lost to that kid in any
Speaker 1: other well, I don't know, got tis to say that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that kid's got a lot of game. But
Speaker 2: you're you're right, there's it just.
Speaker 1: There.
Speaker 2: There's something that's what Wimbledon is the Masters of tennis,
Speaker 2: right like, and there's there's a choke factor at these
Speaker 2: things and it's it is fascinating funny talking about Tiger.
Speaker 2: I mean the two thousand and six Open at Royal Liverpool,
Speaker 2: it remains indelible Tiger's long irons were you know, maybe
Speaker 2: the best ever definitely in a small handful of guys
Speaker 2: ever have struck it like he did. And that was
Speaker 2: to me the week when I mean he hit Driver
Speaker 2: once right and he was just his iron play was
Speaker 2: so superb. Guys written Driver eight iron, Tiger's laying back
Speaker 2: off the tee and hitting four irons inside of them
Speaker 2: the whole week. And one of the things talking about
Speaker 2: the things we love about Open Championships, like a really
Speaker 2: great strike which is like a little puff of smoke.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not a divot, It's like the turf
Speaker 2: just disintegrates. And I have this image of being out
Speaker 2: there watching Tiger and just the sound of the strike,
Speaker 2: these perfect little puffs of smoke like and of course
Speaker 2: you know he comes off the green. That was That
Speaker 2: was his first major championship victory since his father had died,
Speaker 2: and dissolves into Steve Williams arms like we we through
Speaker 2: his Throughout his career, we saw some displays of emotion
Speaker 2: from Tiger and some memorable ones, including the twenty nineteen Masters,
Speaker 2: the ninety seven Masters, and others. But the way he
Speaker 2: was just bawling almost felt like Steve Williams was holding
Speaker 2: him up. You know it was.
Speaker 4: It's definitely it's not it's not a performance that's not
Speaker 4: talked about enough, but to me, it's it's on the
Speaker 4: Mount Rushmore of Tiger victories, and it was epic.
Speaker 1: In every way. I totally feel the Sam and Alan.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, not too many people would understand
Speaker 1: what I'm about to say, but I know you definitely wouldn't.
Speaker 1: When we're writing these, you know, game stories for Sports
Speaker 1: Illustrated off hell, and I'm gonna go to the same
Speaker 1: one or Riley or John Garrity, Russian McCallum and other
Speaker 1: people over the years. And you have an assignment you're
Speaker 1: gonna write the winner, You're gonna write the loser, You're
Speaker 1: gonna write something else. But if you're gonna write the winner,
Speaker 1: you better be prepared to write the winner. Well, they
Speaker 1: don't tell you ahead of time who the winner is
Speaker 1: gonna be. So that particular open you had Sergio playing great,
Speaker 1: christ Marco had been playing great for a while, Ernie
Speaker 1: was playing great, and Tiger and just I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but I kind of do. I was like, I'm just
Speaker 1: writing Tiger Tiger because Tiger is gonna win this thing.
Speaker 1: And I was completely, one hundred percent committed to writing Tiger.
Speaker 1: Had anybody else want I had nothing. We don't like
Speaker 1: to be in that position. But I wasn't surprised at
Speaker 1: all because it just looks and I'm saying from Thursday on,
Speaker 1: were you up?
Speaker 2: You?
Speaker 1: Were you out there? No? Six? And it was just
Speaker 1: what was your story? Loser?
Speaker 2: Probably that and.
Speaker 1: Uh but anyway, but you know, I committed to Tiger early,
Speaker 1: and of course it worked out. It's funny you mentioned
Speaker 1: Jim Harry earlier. Jim and I had to think, you know,
Speaker 1: the Open back in those days, would get on the
Speaker 1: cover if they liked the winner. So Ben Curtis won.
Speaker 1: He was like, you know, I don't know four hundred
Speaker 1: in the world wherever he was. And Jim and are like, man,
Speaker 1: this is some story. Ben Curtis won and open whoever
Speaker 1: heard of this guy? And Jim said, yeah, I went
Speaker 1: to that trow met. Nobody likes the story. What do
Speaker 1: you mean this is like great, Ben Curtisy, Yeah, nobody likes.
Speaker 1: So you know, I got buried.
Speaker 2: Finish your story and I want to come back to
Speaker 2: Ben Curtis. I have a story about that go ahead.
Speaker 1: So then a few years later Todd Hamilton was playing
Speaker 1: the Ben Curtis role, and like Harry and I didn't
Speaker 1: even bother having the conversation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that that when Curtis won, I was working
Speaker 2: out of the office as an editor. I did a
Speaker 2: two year stint just if I wanted to go down
Speaker 2: to the editing track because SI, they all the others
Speaker 2: looked around, realized they were all in their fifties and sixties.
Speaker 2: They didn't really have in the pipeline any young talent
Speaker 2: on the editings side. And so they paid for for
Speaker 2: me to live in New York and have a grand time,
Speaker 2: and I learned a heck of a lot about how
Speaker 2: the magazine works. It was a great education, but ultimately
Speaker 2: the writing life is just more fun. And so when
Speaker 2: my tears was up, I was gone. But so I
Speaker 2: was in the office and I was in those editorial
Speaker 2: meetings and Ben it came you know what it came
Speaker 2: down to, Kobe Bryant had just had you know, had
Speaker 2: gotten involved in that that sexual assaulting in Colorado. And
Speaker 2: so it was Bill Colson was was the editor that
Speaker 2: there was. I don't know if you've gotten the job
Speaker 2: permanently or yeah, yeah the job was it oh three
Speaker 2: hours way after the bake off, it was it was.
Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, he was right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was was confused when I was an intern. Anyway,
Speaker 2: Bill Colson was the other and so I remember saying
Speaker 2: to Colson, I said, you know, I know, Kobe's a
Speaker 2: huge story and all that. I said, it's going to
Speaker 2: be everywhere, and it's not really a feel good story.
Speaker 2: I was like, Curtis, all Americans when you say not.
Speaker 1: Really a feel good story, like one of the most
Speaker 1: depressing sports stories, right exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an understatement, I said, Ben Cursis all
Speaker 2: American kid. No one saw this coming. He played lights out.
Speaker 2: I said, this would be unexpected and so popular. People
Speaker 2: would pull us out of their their their out of
Speaker 2: their mailbox and they would love to see this. And
Speaker 2: of course Kobe was on the cover. And a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks later, Colson came into my office. Was very rare,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe happened three or four times the whole
Speaker 2: time I was that whole era, and he said, you know,
Speaker 2: we probably should have met Ben Curtis on the cover
Speaker 2: like that Kobe. That Kobe cover was depressing and no
Speaker 2: one bought it at the new stand and uh, it's
Speaker 2: like you might have been right. It was like the
Speaker 2: only time I ever said anything like that to me.
Speaker 2: And it was kind of funny because yeah, it was
Speaker 2: something magical about it. You know, there's the and Curs
Speaker 2: actually had a decent career. You know, he went on
Speaker 2: to win some more events. He wasn't complete fluke, but anyway, yeah,
Speaker 2: that the Open is an interesting one. Also, going back
Speaker 2: to six member, Sergio showed up wearing all yellow and
Speaker 2: it became like this running joke. I know, Sergio, it's
Speaker 2: easy to make fun of him, but that was an
Speaker 2: ode to the Tour de France, which was ending that
Speaker 2: day and I think, as a Spanish guy was gonna win.
Speaker 2: And I always feel compelled to defend Sergio. It's not
Speaker 2: that they had horrible fashion sense. It was like, you know,
Speaker 2: the leader of the Tour de France, where it's a
Speaker 2: little yellow jersey and anyway, just makes me laugh because
Speaker 2: I think, didn't he play with Tiger on Sunday and
Speaker 2: like Tiger was like rolling his eyes out and maybe
Speaker 2: that was on the driving range, but it became like
Speaker 2: this thing, how ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Sergio was was with de Marco. I'm that's not sure,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: Anyway, not really.
Speaker 1: Uh, And of course this comes up every year. You
Speaker 1: know what side of the draw and you know, for
Speaker 1: those who don't follow this open closely, uh, not the
Speaker 1: Masters because that's got a small field, but definitely the
Speaker 1: US Open, the PGA Thursday Friday, one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: six players, they go off two t's and the guy.
Speaker 1: The players like it because they think it's already evens
Speaker 1: out the weather over time because it's all more concentrated.
Speaker 1: But the British Open, they have a big field and
Speaker 1: they got a lot of light, and they go literally
Speaker 1: from six point thirty to three thirty.
Speaker 2: At starting times, not finishing time. Starting it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: So yeah, from starting for starting times, so you can
Speaker 1: have howling, lousy, terrible weather at eleven thirty and then
Speaker 1: by three thirty it could be completely benign. Queens are soft,
Speaker 1: there's not a mark on him. It's just totally different
Speaker 1: conditions than what happens typically in the United States. So
Speaker 1: every year, come Friday evening dusk, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: discussion what side of the draw are you on? And
Speaker 1: I've never done a study but I'm sure guys who
Speaker 1: have favorable draws tea times Thursday Friday often wind up
Speaker 1: due winning, But by Sunday no one's even remembering it.
Speaker 1: In fact, in game stories, I never even think to
Speaker 1: note it, now that I'm saying it, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Of all the various majors I've covered their opens I've covered,
Speaker 1: I can't recall one time where that was even a
Speaker 1: factor and how I thought about the tournament, even though
Speaker 1: it probably should be.
Speaker 2: Justine Reid could tell you in forensic detail about who
Speaker 2: can't missus. Patrick Reid made a careful study of this.
Speaker 2: I would also like to know that we're in the
Speaker 2: fifty first minute of this podcast, Michael. If any people
Speaker 2: have come this far, they surely have made a study
Speaker 2: of the draws at the open. Yea casual fan is
Speaker 2: not this deep into this podcast.
Speaker 1: Well, what I'd like to say to the listeners, Okay,
Speaker 1: they already know this, Alan, Who's going to win this thing?
Speaker 2: It's so obvious. I mean, this is not like a
Speaker 2: secret choice. This is like Justin Johnson, who are you
Speaker 2: thinking of? Well, Cheffler, Scheffler, Well, god, yeah, I saw
Speaker 2: a funny stat on Twitter today. I can't or who
Speaker 2: tweeted it, but he finished, you know whatever, top five
Speaker 2: again at the Scottish Open, one half a million dollars,
Speaker 2: and his average earnings per start this year went down.
Speaker 2: He's already made nineteen million dollars between the ropes. I mean,
Speaker 2: obviously this is the new ear of elevated events and
Speaker 2: all that, but it's incredible.
Speaker 1: The Scottish Open is a PGA Tour event and a
Speaker 1: deep tour event. Yeah, and live guys could could live
Speaker 1: guys play in this event because of some.
Speaker 2: Why I don't think there are any live guys there.
Speaker 1: They've do warnant live guys playing this event.
Speaker 2: They given up their their membership on both two tours. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they were able to They were able to play, you know,
Speaker 2: from last summer until this spring on the European Tour
Speaker 2: because they had filed this arbitration case and until it
Speaker 2: got adjudicated that they were allowed to compete. But that
Speaker 2: was what that was the resolute that was the the
Speaker 2: resolution came down masters week saying that the tour could
Speaker 2: suspend them and could uphold their fines, and that all
Speaker 2: those guys just dipped out. So yeah, no, I mean
Speaker 2: Scotty Scheffler. But this is interesting about Scotty Seffler. Like
Speaker 2: he's he has what eighteen straight top twelve finishes, maybe
Speaker 2: an all time record, but he's only won twice. Now.
Speaker 2: The consistency is incredible, and his wins have been big ones,
Speaker 2: but considering he's there every single week, you'd actually like
Speaker 2: to see him pick off a few more ws. So
Speaker 2: it's funny how expectations changed. I mean, two and a
Speaker 2: half years ago, no one never heard of Scotti Scheffler.
Speaker 2: Now he's playing at a level few have ever achieved
Speaker 2: in the history of the sport, and yet here I
Speaker 2: am critiquing that he hasn't won more. So that's some
Speaker 2: you know, talking about the mental game and what Rory's facing.
Speaker 2: I don't know if Scheffler seems unbothered by stuff like that,
Speaker 2: but to be there every single week and not get
Speaker 2: it done sixteen times in this run, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like he needs another big win.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a Tour championship. He doesn't necessarily to be
Speaker 2: the Open, but he needs he needs another big win
Speaker 2: here to to put an exclamation point on this incredible consistency.
Speaker 1: You know who doesn't agree with you. Who Scottie shuffer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: And that's and that's the secret to his success, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't. I just think he doesn't care that much.
Speaker 1: I think he really really cares, but not to degree
Speaker 1: that where there's just something different like the thing that
Speaker 1: we're talking about with Arnold and I think we're talking
Speaker 1: about with Rory as well. I don't think that's it.
Speaker 1: I think the emotional hurdle that he got through by
Speaker 1: winning that Masters when he cried like a baby in
Speaker 1: his wife's arms before Tiger cries after. But this guy
Speaker 1: is crying something warn't it. But then he got through
Speaker 1: it and he did it, you know, and he's half
Speaker 1: a Southerner and he won them. You know, Texas is
Speaker 1: such a thing for Augusta. Of course, you know, grow
Speaker 1: Andy Watkins and that whole thing. But the fact that
Speaker 1: he got through that, and it's like I can sleep
Speaker 1: walk in top three, so I can sleep walk win.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have to do anything special. And Rory, I
Speaker 1: think is push him is a special special special It's
Speaker 1: got to be special, but it doesn't have to be special.
Speaker 1: But try telling yourself that when Tiger's texting you all
Speaker 1: the time, telling you it's got to be special. But
Speaker 1: you see, did you see Big Jack after the Memorial
Speaker 1: Tournament when he you know, he had another bad Sunday
Speaker 1: for Rory. This was no it was a great win
Speaker 1: for Rory, of course, of course, but it was no
Speaker 1: great last round. It was a great last two holes.
Speaker 1: It was a bad last round. Yeah, under very tough conditions.
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. But when he came. But Memorial,
Speaker 1: it could have won that too. Probably Page said it
Speaker 1: should have won it. And Big Jack standing there and
Speaker 1: he says, you know, give me a call. Now, it's
Speaker 1: not the time or the place, but give me a call.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they talked about her. If they
Speaker 1: talked about it, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was kind of ruthless by Jack. I mean
Speaker 2: he's basically saying, you're a head case man. What's wrong
Speaker 2: with you? Call me like that was? I mean, I
Speaker 2: know it was meant to.
Speaker 1: I think I don't think it's a I think it's
Speaker 1: more like, uh, something's wrong, and I think I can
Speaker 1: see it. I know, I know I'm mechanical, and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying Jack. I mean it might show up in mechanics. Now,
Speaker 1: I know I have friends who know a lot more
Speaker 1: about golf than I do who don't agree with this.
Speaker 1: Like when they talk about my putting, they say, oh,
Speaker 1: it's mechanics, mechanics, mechanics, But actually I know it's not
Speaker 1: because I can putt pretty well in a practice putting green.
Speaker 1: It's when it matters and when it goes wrong. And
Speaker 1: some of the drives. I mean, we've seen Rory driving
Speaker 1: for fifteen years now. He drives more than that. No, no,
Speaker 1: he drives it incredibly well. He had some of the
Speaker 1: worst drives I've ever seen a world two of the worst.
Speaker 1: Two of the worst drives I ever seen a world
Speaker 1: class driver. Not many tour players can hit it offline,
Speaker 1: but these were wildly offline with bad swings. How does
Speaker 1: that happen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's the the things that don't show
Speaker 2: up on a launch monitor is what makes this sport
Speaker 2: so fascinating. You know, it's just it's just an X
Speaker 2: ray of the soul, and.
Speaker 1: That launch monitor is killing these guys. I really believe it.
Speaker 1: I know that sounds like, oh, rolled, he grew up
Speaker 1: in the blow bah blah blah blah, But I really
Speaker 1: believe launch my Brian Harmon was watching Truvino hit balls
Speaker 1: at the Open last year at Saint Andrew's Pure in
Speaker 1: one shot after another, making that eighty two or three
Speaker 1: years old whatever he was, eighty one eighty two, making
Speaker 1: that ball do whatever he wanted it to do. And
Speaker 1: Brian Harmon's like, and Brian Harmon is a damn good golfer,
Speaker 1: and Brian Harmon's like, man, And I'm talking him right
Speaker 1: there in Spice Man. Just watching Trevino you can see
Speaker 1: it's just all in his body, and you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just looking at that machine after every swing. I think
Speaker 1: it's just a weird way to play golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting, that's different.
Speaker 1: But if your whole culture is telling you, I mean
Speaker 1: manage you showed up at a at in a prestent
Speaker 1: with a portable typewriter, you know it'd be crazy.
Speaker 2: I kind of want to do that. That'd be awesome,
Speaker 2: Although honestly, you're more like you're a more likely candidate.
Speaker 1: Michael Gary Smith Allan. I had this colleague who was,
Speaker 1: you know, amazing, Gary Smith, and we were once comparing notes.
Speaker 1: He was having a hard time going to the lapto
Speaker 1: or whatever. The color sings bacbook and I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't write on it. And I said,
Speaker 1: I've had to get this extra what do you call it?
Speaker 1: Like an external keyboard? Yeah, at the right angle. And
Speaker 1: Gary Smith, who can write circles around. I was like,
Speaker 1: you're a head.
Speaker 2: Case that story. That's amazing, and then I got over it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, you get over it. But you also are
Speaker 1: a culturated to what everyone's song, your quote should be doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting, All right, Well we're gonna we're gonna be Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I think we're good for now. We will
Speaker 2: try and podcast when you're overseas, Michael, but it is
Speaker 2: very Wi Fi dependent, and as we both know that
Speaker 2: the water pressure over in Jolly England and the WiFi
Speaker 2: is unreliable, so.
Speaker 1: I gotta get I think I've got my mechanics figured
Speaker 1: out here. I all pod as often as you wish.
Speaker 2: Well, if if we can, if we can make it happen,
Speaker 2: if we can make it happen, we'll do it. I'm
Speaker 2: saying like, it depends on your Wi Fi. But for
Speaker 2: the listeners out there, we're going to try, Michael.
Speaker 1: Well, eight hour time difference, how does that work for
Speaker 1: you when it's eight pm for me, what is it
Speaker 1: for you? Noon?
Speaker 2: So that's fine, that's good. Yeah, well yeah that's that.
Speaker 1: You can wake up and watch oping off. That's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Well I have to wake up early though, yeah, you
Speaker 2: know it's for the start of it. But anyway, all right,
Speaker 2: well this was this was This is fun told some
Speaker 2: old stories haven't thought about a long time. So thanks
Speaker 2: for drawing those out. Michael safe journey over to cool.
Speaker 2: Uh the listeners out there, we appreciate you sticking with us,
Speaker 2: and we'll be back in your ears.
Speaker 1: Paying the bills running Alan, who's paying the bills run here? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yes, we should probably mention. Dormy Network or Dormy Network
Speaker 2: is a series of private clubs that's different than the
Speaker 2: Dormy Workshop, who are our friends and the sponsors of
Speaker 2: this podcast. Dormy Workshop. They make beautiful leather goods, headcovers,
Speaker 2: stash bags, all kinds of fun stuff. If you go
Speaker 2: to Firepitcollective dot com and you click on the Pit
Speaker 2: shop tab, you'll see some special things they've worked up
Speaker 2: for us, Or you can just go to the Dormy
Speaker 2: Workshop's website and see their full compliment. But we've missed
Speaker 2: Father's Day, but surely there's someone you love who's going
Speaker 2: to be celebrating occasion soon. Or treat yourself, of course,
Speaker 2: my daughter says whenever we're I'm saying I shouldn't have
Speaker 2: any desert night says, treat yourself, like okay, where just
Speaker 2: to live by? So, yeah, there's a Dormy is a
Speaker 2: great supporter. We thank them for their we're helping us
Speaker 2: keep the lights on here at the Firepit Collective.
Speaker 1: So for Michael bamber that that's the Dormy Workshop, Dormy
Speaker 1: works up. Yes, but then there's another thing, the Dormy Network.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not related.
Speaker 2: No they're not not to my knowledge.
Speaker 1: No, no, So does the Dormy Network help us out
Speaker 1: to No.
Speaker 2: I regret even saying their their their name out loud, but.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe now they maybe now they will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if they want to come on and be a sponsored,
Speaker 2: great that we'll just say thank you Dormy. But anyway, uh,
Speaker 2: For Michael Bamberger, this is Alan Schiffle Like that was
Speaker 2: a fire drop podcast and thanks for listening. This is
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 5: I'm bet big and I played the wind made a fortune.
Speaker 5: When my ship came in, I ran the table, never
Speaker 5: thought I could fall. Then the win hit made, lack
Speaker 5: of canon the ball, and no, I can't shake this,
Speaker 5: losing the stream.
Speaker 3: Every road I take is a dead end stream. I
Speaker 3: got dot head, can't get them out. Trying not to
Speaker 3: think what I'm thinking about. I got of thoughts in
Speaker 3: my head, can't get them out, Trying not to think
Speaker 3: what I'm thinking about.