1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: and I Heart radio podcast. We're back here. We are welcome. Oh, 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: welcome to and that's what you really missed. You be 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,080 Speaker 1: rated us. You reached us on every social media platform. 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: You would not leave us alone. No, and we tried 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: to ignore it. It worked. Whatever you did worked. Thanks 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: for Thanks for coming back, Thanks for making us come back. 8 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: We're here with you, and we are we are excited 9 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: to revisit this with new eyes. Yeah. I think two 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: Eyes are very different from even two years ago. Yes, 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: and so it's nice to pick this back up. And 12 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: I think Jen and I have a plan for this 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: for this version. We're going in depth. We're going to 14 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: be very open. We're gonna we're not gonna sugarcoat. We're 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: gonna talk about everything. Um and I think ultimately, Jenna, 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: you and I talked about is that there was so 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: much joy in the process of making Glee. Yes, obviously 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: there are bad things and we will talk about them, 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of good and we want 20 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: to explore that. We want to get into the details 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: of the nitty gritty of different departments and who the 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: show have impacted and affected and so going into this 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: first episode and to relaunching this whole thing, we were 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: talking about who could we have, Well, we figured we'd 25 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: start at the top, right who who better than the man, 26 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: the myth, the legend himself, Ryan Murphy. Ryan Murphy, Honestly, 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: I feel like there was a reckoning in the last 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: two years in the best way possible. Um, what you've 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: seen in the media, what you've seen is just a 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: snippet of all of them, of the madness that went 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: on around Glee. But there's so much good and there 32 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: was so much joy and this thing was, honestly, at 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: least the first couple of years, was made with so 34 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: much love and UM, I'm just really excited to share 35 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: that with you guys. And I feel like we've we've 36 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: had this, you know, open conversation with Ryan Murphy over 37 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: the last two years as well, and with all of that, 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: I think everybody's going to this with a new perspective 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: of some sort and and that's why we're doing this 40 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: and who better to kick it off. We just talk 41 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: to Ryan for almost three hours. He was so great, open, 42 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: an honest conversation, and we learned a lot of things 43 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: we never knew about behind the scenes. We asked a 44 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: lot of things, we had questions about that we we 45 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,800 Speaker 1: have been dying to ask um that we may never 46 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: get those answers again. So and he was not shying 47 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: away from and and everything. Buckle up. We hope you 48 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: enjoy this. We sure did. We learned a lot and 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: here's our kickoff episode. Enjoy our conversation with Ryan Murphy. 50 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: Let's start at the very beginning, Ryan Murphy. For the people, everybody, 51 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: this is why old people right, this is Ryan Show today. 52 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: Seeing as we have you, we're not going to let 53 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: you go until we go through everything. And you signed 54 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: off on that I did. I sort of told you both, like, 55 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, I've never really talked about Glee or the 56 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: making of Glee, and you know, for all of us, 57 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: I think it was the beginning of a lot of things, 58 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: the end of a lot of things. And I thought, 59 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just going to talk about all 60 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: of it and say an answer anything that's asked me, 61 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: and then this is going to be like a really 62 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: intense therapy session. So I have my clean xbox nearby, 63 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: and already your ugs on, you're on a couch, my 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: egs on. I'm on a couch. I decided to treat 65 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: this like a psychological experiment, and we've all taken and 66 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: we're ready. We're ready to dive deep. I'm ready to 67 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: deep dive and answer any arcane. There's no question too 68 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: small or too big. I think we all need this 69 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: for some reason. Glee happened over fifteen years ago, and 70 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 1: it keeps coming back and people won't let it die. 71 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: So let's just do it this. We're bringing it. Let's 72 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: let's go at the very beginning, very beginning. Yeah, I 73 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: think so two thousand seven or two thousand eight, Niptuck 74 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: was in the throes of success, still in the air. Um, 75 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: you remember you did a pilot called Pretty Handsome with 76 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: John Grof and you carry and Moss. Yeah, you showed us, 77 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 1: I showed you, guys, and that pilot didn't go didn't 78 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: go forward. How did you go from What was this 79 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: process like? Because the story we you heard was you 80 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: met someone at a gym and got handed a script 81 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: and eventually that turned into Glee. But what was your 82 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: experience of how did Glee happen coming off of Pretty 83 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: Handsome and Niptuck still being on the air. Mm hmm, 84 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 1: it was it was always a great It's a great 85 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: lesson that I always tell people, particularly young people, like 86 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: every crushing no leads to the ultimate, bigger yes. And 87 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened in the case of Glee. So 88 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 1: I had this big, shiny hit called Niptuck. And when 89 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: you have a hit like that, you know pretty much 90 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: the next thing that you do, particularly if you're doing 91 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: it for the same network, they will say, Okay, great, 92 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: let's do that. So I put my heart into this 93 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: show called Pretty Handsome with Joseph Findes. It was actually 94 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: the first time I think Jonathan Groff had ever been 95 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: before a camera, as I remember, and I remember saying like, 96 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: you can't look into the lens, like that's the rule 97 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: number one. And he was so charming and was you know, 98 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: the typical Johnny fashioned like Olivier and Take one. And 99 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: so I did it. It was it was very much 100 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: like Transparent. It was it was like ten years before Transparent, 101 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: and we all loved it and thought it was great. 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: It was about um, a male guyd of collegist who 103 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: realize that he's a woman and Dot Marie Jones was 104 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: in it, and you know, it was just an amazing 105 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: cast and they called me up and they said, we 106 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: love this, we think it's one of the best things 107 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: that we've ever seen. We cannot sell advertising for it. 108 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 1: The advertiser advertisers have already told us no, and we 109 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: can't put it on the air. And I was really 110 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: really upset, and I think I took to my bed 111 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: for two weeks. And right at the same time, I 112 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 1: had started an overall deal at Fox with Dana Walden, 113 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: who has gone on to be my big mentor and champion, 114 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 1: and she made me have a dinner where her and 115 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: she said, you can't be depressed about this. You just 116 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: have to keep going on and you have to challenge yourself. 117 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: And she said, what have you always wanted to do 118 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: that you've never done? And I said, well, I've always 119 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: wanted to do a musical. And she paused and she said, well, 120 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: that's not gonna work because there's never been a musical 121 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: that worked on television like there was famously this Stephen 122 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: Boco show called cop Rock, and then there was a 123 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: Melanie Griffith show around that time. I think it was 124 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: set in Las Vegas that was people singing, but it 125 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: didn't work. And I said, well, what if we do 126 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: a musical that goes on sometime after American Idol or 127 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: before American Idol, because that which was the biggest, biggest 128 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: show in the world. So while we were having these 129 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: conversations and I was trying to figure it out, like serendipity, 130 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: I went to the gym and I was in a 131 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: towel and a guy came up, Mike Novec came up 132 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: and handed me the script and he said said, I 133 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: have a feeling you were in show choir. Am I right? 134 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, I guess I've got a 135 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: huge gay face in a towel in a gym, and 136 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: I said I was. And he said, my friend wrote 137 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: the script and you should read it, and he gave 138 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: it to me, and I didn't read it for a 139 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: couple of weeks while Dana and I were continually trying 140 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: to talk about, well, what is the musical to crack like, 141 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: what is it? At one point it was going to 142 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: be a draculum musical that would have gone over real great. 143 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: And so then I finally read Ian script on a plane, 144 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: and in Ian's original script, it was a very dark 145 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: comedy that had kind of the idea of it, and 146 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: Ian and I were both in quired and Mr Shoe 147 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: I believe as a crystal meth addict in Ian's script, 148 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: so I like doing was he like touching the children? 149 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: It was it was like a very dark dark It 150 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: was sort of like election, remember that Reese Wather's election, 151 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: but like the NC seventeen version of show Choir with 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: like a weird protagonist who is unraveling. And as soon 153 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: as I read it, I was like, Okay, well this 154 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: is it, and I said what if we? Because what 155 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: I loved was the idea of um kids in high school. 156 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I have since learned 157 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: in um my career is it it seems like shows 158 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,679 Speaker 1: that work or TV experiences that work very often feature 159 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: people going through quote unquote first times, first kiss, first loss, 160 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: first singing, singing experience, on and on and on. So 161 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: I kind of instinctively wanted to do something about first 162 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: and I wanted to do something after my transsexual show 163 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: didn't go that was the opposite of that. Like I 164 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: wanted something very very poppy and primary colors and blue 165 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: sky and not dark. I had done Niptuck and I 166 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: had done pretty handsome, and I was like, I just 167 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: need to do something optimistic, and so I convinced Ian 168 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: to work on a draft that sort of leaned into 169 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: all of that stuff, and we presented it to Dana 170 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: and she actually liked it and she said, I think 171 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: that this could actually work. So she was the first 172 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: champion of it, just as the idea UM. And then 173 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: we started writing that and it sort of took six 174 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: months to write it, and we wrote it, and then 175 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: the interesting thing was we turned it in and Kevin Riley, 176 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: who was had hired me at f f X and 177 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: was now running Fox with Peter Lagory, said I love 178 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: this pilot. It's weird, it'll probably never go It has 179 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: one huge problem, and knowing you, I'm shocked and disappointed 180 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: in you. And I said, oh my god, what And 181 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: he goes, there's no bad person in here, like all 182 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: these people are nice and optimistic, and he goes, there's 183 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,680 Speaker 1: no one to hate, and I said, you're right, And 184 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: then Ian and I talked and within fifteen minutes, I said, 185 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: I know what it is. It's a horrible cheerleading coach 186 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: like Jane Jane Lynch type person. And I had worked 187 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: with Jane before UM, but we kept calling her Jane 188 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: Lynch like so that's then we put Cecil Vester into 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: the pilot script and if you notice going back that 190 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: character is not in it a lot um and and 191 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: and that's why because we just had to put it 192 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 1: in there to get it green lead. And then Kevin 193 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: was like, eureka, you've done it. So then it got 194 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: we got it picked up and we were off to 195 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: the races. But it was a very interesting, bizarre way 196 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: to make something. What's I remember you when you would 197 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: sort of tell us like the short version of that 198 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: story back in the day when you like I walked 199 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: into Fox and they were like, okay, sure, go for it. 200 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: Was like, who in the right mind would be like, yeah, um, 201 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: you this TV person who has created all these dark 202 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: shows and this pilot that we love that we can't 203 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: actually green light. We want you to go for this 204 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: thing that's probably the hardest thing to get success with. 205 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: And they were like, yeah, go for it. On multiple levels, well, 206 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: like do you feel like you were out of your 207 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: element or in your element? Because we always kept like 208 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: when we were doing press after the pilot, everybody was like, 209 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: this is so not Ryan Murphy. This is this is 210 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: the opposite of what Ryan Murphy does. Like, do you 211 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: feel like you are in or out of your element 212 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: creating this show. I really felt like I was in 213 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: my element because you know, I had kind of lived 214 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: that show in a weird way, because there were parts 215 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: of me in all of the regular parts, you know, 216 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: the small group of regulars. Then it became like you know, 217 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: Night of a Thousand Stars eventually, but they were like 218 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: five key part and I think there was a lot 219 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: of me in all of those parts, because you know, 220 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,800 Speaker 1: Ian and I had really were working on the just 221 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: the ideas of it, and I felt very personal to 222 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: all of them, you know. Um, And you know, I 223 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: started this business writing Popular, which was a very also 224 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: a high school show that was a comedy. But then 225 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: I became the prince of Darkness. And I think that 226 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: what the town does is that you are your last hit, right, 227 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: so then you're suddenly that thing. And I never thought 228 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: it was true. And it was a very interesting time 229 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: in the life of show business in Hollywood because if 230 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: you look back at it now, you know, really the 231 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: two biggest champions of Glee, we're Dana Walden and Jen Sulky. 232 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: Jen has gone on to run Amazon, and these two 233 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 1: powerhouses were the ones I wouldn't say they were battling 234 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: the guys, because the guys, you know, Kevin Riley and 235 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: and Peter Rice and Peter Legory were always interested in it. 236 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 1: But it was a very interesting, long battle. But for 237 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: some there was something about it that as soon as 238 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 1: we made it, I just knew that it was special, 239 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: and I kept just saying to everybody, just get it 240 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: on the air, and if it gets on the air, 241 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: I know it's gonna work. So you know, when you 242 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: that was back when there was such a thing as 243 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: pilot season. So we made the pilot and we turned 244 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: it in and you had to do things called test screeners. 245 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: So we took Glee, Dane and I in Jen and 246 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: we went to some place in Studio City with a 247 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: test audience and we showed it to them, and I 248 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: think it literally got the worst scores in the history 249 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: of the bombed. It was just like complete bomb And 250 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: the thing that at the end of it um the 251 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: people didn't realize it was a musical, so they kept 252 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: there was like checked which category or you best, how 253 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: you would market this show? And they not a single 254 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: person and there were thirty six people in that room 255 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: thought that it was a musical. Um, so they one 256 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: person a lot of people thought it was a satire 257 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: and they would they wrote that, which it kind of was. Yeah. 258 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: So then there was the powerful person in the world 259 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: who really didn't understand it, and there was you know, 260 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: back then there all these different levels of programmers. There 261 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: was also a lot of I'll just say it, there 262 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: was a lot of homophobic fear about this show. Um. 263 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: There was one very powerful person within the corporation who 264 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: would repeatedly at screenings of it when they were showing 265 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: it before it was picked up, who kept calling it 266 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: the fag show, which made everybody in the executives who 267 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: had championed it furious. And that was back in the 268 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: day where you could say this in a room full 269 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: of people and nobody would bat an eye, especially you 270 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: were super super powerful, super powerful in your doctors, you know, 271 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: standing there and that you know, like this person also 272 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: came up to me a different no matter. It was 273 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: just hilarious. Like it was one of those things where 274 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: there were like really five people who believed in it. 275 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: And then there was Joe Early, who did the marketing 276 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: of it, instantly got what it was. He was the 277 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: one who working with me came up with the color 278 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: scape of the yellows and the reds and all of 279 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: you guys doing the l's on your head. It was 280 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: very simple, and we worked, Joe and I worked a 281 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: lot on that concept. But the thing about it that 282 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: was great is is it had all these guardian angels. 283 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: It had Dana first and foremost, who after that disastrous 284 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: test screating took me out for a drink and she said, 285 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: you know what, I don't care. I don't care what 286 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: they think they're wrong. What version was the test? Was 287 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: it the one that actually aired? No, the version of 288 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: the test had the infamous long Um disco dancing segment 289 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: with Mr She was a child Um. And I will say, like, 290 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 1: after that disastrous screening, the good thing about that screening 291 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: was it sort of made everybody put on there, Okay, well, 292 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: how do we convince people that this is a mainstream concept? Um? 293 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: And it was. The idea was if you take that 294 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: out and get right to you know, because that was 295 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: polarizing because the costumes were like based on Copacabana. It 296 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 1: was very very odd and so that that was the 297 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: first thing to go, and not much after that, and 298 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: once that we lifted that out I think it's since 299 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: been seen in like DVD cuts and things like that. 300 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: Um we um, yeah, we we took that out and 301 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: then um people were more comed rble with it. And 302 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: then we didn't make any changes at all. And then 303 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: the interesting thing was, I don't know if it was 304 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: based on my relationships, I think so. Um. And also 305 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: just because the like Dana and gen and and everybody 306 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: had been the ringer through it, we got like the 307 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: first thirteen ordered and that was a magical thing because 308 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: you know, we got to make those first the first 309 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: thirteen episodes, no one had seen it, no one had 310 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: watched it, and we were on the paramount lots. Yeah, 311 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: we were making it in a real bubble and it 312 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: was the only thing I was working on the Pray 313 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: Love with Julia Roberts at the time. But you know, 314 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 1: it was very, very singular. I don't even remember how 315 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: many of those did I direct three of the thirteen? 316 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: I think, um, maybe three or four. But I was 317 00:18:53,400 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: I just remember making it and not really caring if 318 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: it was going to be a hit or a bomb, 319 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: because I knew that the first third Team would get 320 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: on the air, and I thought, well, maybe this is 321 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: gonna be like a Freaks and Geeks thing where you know, 322 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: the third teen will air and then it will be canceled, 323 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: but people will look back on it. Finally, because I 324 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: knew that it would mean something to anybody who had 325 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: been in show choir. Yeah, what were your expectations? None? None, 326 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: and you know, there was it. My expectation was actually 327 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: when we aired the pilot, it aired in May, I think, 328 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: right around the American Idolphin. It was right after the 329 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: season finale American, and I thought, just I don't know 330 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 1: how this is gonna do. And it did. And I 331 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: remember the next morning and there was that you know, 332 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: back then it's just not that long ago, but so 333 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: long ago, you know, you'd get the call. Well it did, okay, 334 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: it didn't do great, you know, but we still love you. 335 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: We hope that you don't look at this as discouraging. 336 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: It's it's okay and you got your being seen and yeah, 337 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: so it was sort of I always thought it was 338 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: gonna be like that, Like I thought it was gonna 339 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: be niche, because you know, I had gone through niche 340 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: before with Popular, you know, which aired for two seasons 341 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: and had a very small loyal old audience. Back then, 342 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: we would call it CULTI, but you look at the 343 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: ratings for those shows that are culty. Those ratings existed today. 344 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: Popular was more would be like Game of Thrones, like 345 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: more and more people were just watching television, and the 346 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: ratings were so high compared to now. So I think 347 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: I remember it the pilot aired, I got on a 348 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: plane and flew to Bali, right, and I just thought, well, 349 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna be. It's gonna air in the fall, 350 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be something that we loved making and 351 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: we were all proud of, and it's just gonna kind 352 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: of be a culty thing and that's that. And I 353 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:03,239 Speaker 1: had no expectation for the back seven episodes, although I 354 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: had things in mind, and I knew that if it 355 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: did get picked up, I was going to do a 356 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: Madonna episode and that was going to be my big 357 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: swan song. I'd come here to do what I was 358 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: gonna do. So I had no exactly and I had 359 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,880 Speaker 1: no plans other than that. And I don't know how 360 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: you guys felt. I remember the last day of shooting. 361 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: I remember getting the cast together and saying something because 362 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: I had a really bad experience with the with the 363 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: niptuck ending, you know, and going through something that burned 364 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: really bright, and then everybody kind of falling apart, and 365 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: I remember giving a speech about staying close and being 366 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: in it for the work. I don't know if you 367 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: remember that. I believe. I believe I cried that a 368 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:51,720 Speaker 1: couple of times. God help. But you know what I 369 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: really remember about that time was, you know, even you're 370 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: you're saying that I showed you guys the pretty handsome pilot, 371 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: Like there were some time where, you know, almost all 372 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: of the cast was known in certain circles, Broadway circles, Jenna, 373 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: certainly Kevin from your musical background, but nobody really knew 374 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: a lot about the cast. And we spent every day together. 375 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: We had weekends together. I mean, I would bring you 376 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: guys into this little black room that was the size 377 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: of a closet, like thirteen of you, and I would 378 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: screen rough cuts just so that you would get excited 379 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: and people would be cheering everybody else's musical numbers. And 380 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: it was a very it was a very wonderful. You know, 381 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: I was single at the time. I had not you know, 382 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: but also Glee led me to my marriage, which is 383 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: another story. But yeah, it was like it was my life. 384 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 1: It was Julia Robertson, you guys and munt and we 385 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: were all we all that the stupidest things I could 386 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: possibly imagine. Stop talking now. Kevin and I remember we 387 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: talked about this a lot, like we spent It was 388 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: very much a bubble. The world hadn't seen the show yet. 389 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: We didn't know what it was going to be. Our 390 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,679 Speaker 1: expectations were non um. In the middle of it, the 391 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: pilot airs and it does well, and all of a sudden, 392 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: there's these commercials of Glee was watched by fifteen million 393 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: people and the song's number one on iTunes. Were like, 394 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: we did the mall to this hot topic mall tour 395 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: or you know, like the thing that I'm glad that 396 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: you remember the headlines is being good because I remember 397 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: those headlines as well. They got fifteen million viewers, but 398 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: that's only because people who were watching American Idol forgot 399 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: to turn on the channel, So it's not a thing. 400 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: I remember thinking that because I was always sort of 401 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: the numbers guy, were like the cast. I would always 402 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: report back to the cast like what our ratings and 403 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: music were doing, and I remember being like, Okay, well, 404 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: they're like, really milking this. We don't really know yet, 405 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: but we are. In every department, I think it wasn't 406 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: just us, It wasn't just you. In every department, the crew, production, 407 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, everyone felt the same thing, where no 408 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: one talked about if it was going to be successful 409 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: or not. We were just having the time of our lives. 410 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: We'd show up, we'd make the crew laugh, we'd have 411 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: to do these crazy musical numbers with the incredible Andrew 412 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: Mitchell and Steadycam and it was everyone just felt was 413 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: all in on making this thing work, that we you 414 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: were creating the formula as it was happening, and we 415 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: were all just sort of like, I don't know what 416 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 1: this is going to be. I don't know who this 417 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: is for, but we love it. It felt like it 418 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: was for us, and you know, it felt like you 419 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: were also you were very hands on with us from 420 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: the very beginning, where you gave us I don't know, 421 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: I think three or four speeches like the one you 422 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: talked about where and you did explain sort of vaguely 423 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: about coming off of this Niptuck experience where you wanted 424 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: to make sure that you handled this in a way 425 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: that you felt was better or healthier or a more 426 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: correct way to deal with the cast. And I think 427 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: because we were young and completely unknown and I don't 428 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: know us completely green, that you would talk us through, 429 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: like gently, sort of hold our hands through if their success, 430 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: if we're lucky enough to have any success, this is 431 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: sort of what will happen, and if it does happen, 432 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: this is how we should handle it together as a group. 433 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: And then when we did start to build momentum and 434 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 1: get success, you would sort of check in and be like, Okay, 435 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: here's where we are. This is very rare air and 436 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: this may never happen again. Yeah, like this is And 437 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: that was for you, that was for us, that was 438 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: for everyone. And I remember I feel like had you 439 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: not been there with the foresight to sort of talk 440 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: us through that you had been running shows before, but 441 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: you also didn't know at the time you were about 442 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: to be running this billion dollar business, so you didn't 443 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: know either. I knew nothing. Yeah, you know how to 444 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: run a successful show that was had a core fan 445 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: base and was getting picked up, and that's what you 446 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 1: were concerned about for us, which was I think very helpful. 447 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: But then it sort of exploded into this yeah, yeah, 448 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: it was. It was a I would say it was 449 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: like the best of times the worst of times for me. 450 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 1: The thing that I was very aware of was, Okay, 451 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: I hope this is a TV show that's like loved 452 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: and you know, along the lines of my so called 453 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: life at best. So I had only had really one 454 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: hit at that point, and it, let me tell you, 455 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: it was a cable hit, and so it was not 456 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: like it was not it was a smaller, utra ultra hit. 457 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: And then to go from being like, okay, you're a 458 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: showrunner to your the manager of a billion dollar brand 459 00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: literally within a month, because what happened was the show 460 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,640 Speaker 1: I was in Italy shooting with Julia when the shows 461 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: that we had had in the can started to shoot 462 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,119 Speaker 1: started to air in September, and it was one of 463 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: those things where it came on and with every episode 464 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: it built and built and built, until I think by 465 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: episode three, when Kristin Chenowith came on the show, it 466 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 1: had just become a phenomenon that sometimes you see like 467 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: something just explodes out of the gate and then it's there. 468 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: So I was getting all of these calls from executive saying, 469 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: oh my god, it's doubled in the ratings, It's tripled 470 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: in the ratings. That that that, that that that, and 471 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: then the Fall Award nominations came out, and then the 472 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: music started to become it literally its own industry, and 473 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: I had that was overwhelming for me because you know, 474 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: pretty much for the first three years, any song that 475 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: was on Glee I handpicked, and it was because I 476 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: loved the song and I could sing it in car 477 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: like it was just like I would have CDs mixtapes 478 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: of things like. It was just I was a fan. 479 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: The show was about being a fan and a love 480 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: of pop music and Broadway music and classic rock yeah 481 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: who yeah, And a lot of that was Brad stuff. 482 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: You know, Brad was interested in the Springsteen stuff and 483 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: the Speedwagon stuff and um yeah, it was what was 484 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: interesting about it was so then it became suddenly like, Okay, 485 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: now you have a show that I believe, by the 486 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: time it hit the spring was the number one show 487 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: in the world. Then you had this other component, which 488 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: is the music, which for a long time, the record 489 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: held where the Glee cast was, you know, the number 490 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: one recording artist in the world. I think it held 491 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: until last year until Drake snatched it away with his 492 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: Canadian hands. You know, I love that drink. He also 493 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: played a wheelchair bound student in a high school show. Yes, 494 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: he did can Then we did that, and then of 495 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: course it was that thing that happened, which in hindsight 496 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: was probably a mistake, which was let's go on tour, 497 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: because what happened the first season we had fun doing 498 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: the little you know, the radio city music hall thing 499 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: that felt like that at that that aren't that. It 500 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: was silly and crazy. But then to go and then 501 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: you guys became like little Taylor Swifts like that became 502 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: this thing and it just was it was. I was 503 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: very overwhelmed by the three headed hydra element of it 504 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: because again I knew nothing, and I had never had 505 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: any experience doing this, right, I had never had any 506 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: experience of running something on this level. Yep. I mean 507 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: there's no training for that unless you've actually done it before. 508 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: There's no school, like, here are the things you need 509 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: to know when you're running a billion dollar business that 510 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: is TV and music and touring. Well, this is the 511 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: This is the thing that's very I think up about Hollywood, 512 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,959 Speaker 1: right is you can be a person who is writing 513 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: a script you are sitting in a room by yourself 514 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: with your Starbucks and a sad, broken down laptop. You 515 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: can write something, you can turn it in, and then 516 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: you can have a corporation say here's a billion dollars, 517 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: go have fun. And you're like, I don't know how 518 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: to hire people. I don't know how to manage people. 519 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: I don't know how to how am I supposed to 520 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: do all this while working on the creative element of 521 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: the show. It's truly like, you still have to turn 522 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: in two episodes back then, yeah, twenty two, and the 523 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: three of you wrote those yes to all together, yes 524 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: for the first two seasons. Yes, So it was It's 525 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: just I wish that there was some for to sort 526 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: of formal training on how to be a showrunner. And 527 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: you weren't given the keys to the kingdom unless you 528 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: learned how to not just manage your time, not just 529 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: manage other people, but also how to manage your own 530 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: mental health. Because I don't know any CEO in the 531 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: world who becomes CEO without like at least ten years 532 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: of training. So it's absolutely insane to be able to 533 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, manage something, let alone a cultural phenomenon. It 534 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: was very, very very difficult for me, and I remember 535 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: feeling like I failed a lot, and I did fail 536 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: a lot, and I have, you know, regrets about that 537 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: about I shouldn't have done a lot of those things. 538 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have agreed to a lot of those things. 539 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: But at the same point, I'll never forget that opening 540 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: night at Staples Center. It was insane. It was like, well, who, like, okay, 541 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,239 Speaker 1: check that up the bucket list. But there was a 542 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: cost to that, you know, there was I can't even imagine, 543 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: and I mean I do imagine, but like for you 544 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: guys having to not just do twenty two episodes a 545 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: year of a one hour but recorded the musical numbers 546 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: while in choreography between takes. I mean, thank god you 547 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:59,600 Speaker 1: were all so young. But it was but you know, 548 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: back then and there was no conversation about mental health. 549 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: There was no conversation about, um, none of that stuff. 550 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: We want to we really want to dive into that 551 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: on this podcast too, about you know, like taking care 552 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: of yourself and what and how Hollywood does generate this 553 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: like go go go kind of hustle culture that um, 554 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: you you really do have to look out for yourself 555 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: and some people don't even know how to um. And 556 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: I think for us it was like over everything was 557 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: so overnight for you. For us, like this was all 558 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: brand new territory and we didn't know how to We 559 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: couldn't say no, We didn't know how to say no. 560 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: In a way, that's how I felt. I could not 561 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: say no because you know, for what, it's so hard 562 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: to get a job. You finally get a job, you 563 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: get hired on the show, and then it's successful, and 564 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: then on top of that, it's it means a lot 565 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: to people, you know, like you hope to get a job, 566 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: and you hope the check clears and you get to 567 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: keep going back every day. But at the same time, 568 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: we're now you know, hearing from people like what you 569 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: hope for the show, it did find his audience and 570 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: it was a lot bigger than you ever could have imagined. 571 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: And it's like, I think we come from the world 572 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: of especially the theater world with Jenna and Leah, where 573 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: it's like you just put your head down and work 574 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: that you say thank you and you go full out 575 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: whenever you're asked to work. And so I had the 576 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 1: same experience and the only gauge I had that we 577 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: were probably doing more than what was normal. Was sort 578 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: of from the crew. They're like, anything you do after 579 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: this is going to be easier. You know, I do 580 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: want to win in one thing that I just said, 581 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: because I was thinking about it about you know, the 582 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: truth of the matter is I did say yes that 583 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: the responsibility is on me. And I'll tell you why 584 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 1: I said yes to all of these things because when 585 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: I first started off in the business, you know, it 586 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: was a gay guy. I would go to meetings with 587 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: executives and some of them would literally imitate my voice 588 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: like it was rough. It was really really hard, and 589 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,839 Speaker 1: I thought, I'm never going to be a success. I'm 590 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: never going to get a job. My show was canceled 591 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: the first two seasons after popular. After that, I struggled. 592 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: So I knew what it was like to have a 593 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 1: weird sensibility and to not work. So once you get 594 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: a green light and you're driving a very fast car, 595 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: if the next light is a green light, it's human 596 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: nature to go through the green light, to take the 597 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: yes because it may never come back again. And of 598 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: course I've since realized that that's probably was not the 599 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: way to be, but just for my own life, I 600 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: was like, well, this could be the end. So the 601 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: only time I ever said no was in the middle 602 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: of the third season. They really did want to do 603 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: a Darren Chris Dalton Warbler's spinoff, and I said, I 604 00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: don't think that's I don't think I think. Wow, Yeah, 605 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: we we were talking about doing a Warbler spinoff, and 606 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,960 Speaker 1: I said, I just I don't have the bandwidth. I 607 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: can't do it. And I should have done it. Actually, 608 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: looking back on it, what I wouldn't kill to have 609 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: done that show because it would have been great. Um, 610 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: it would have been and it would have solved a 611 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: lot of other problems. But I yeah, I mean, I 612 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: just would like to emphasize again, and I've said this 613 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: to you. You know, we had a really an interesting 614 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 1: thing that happened in my life when Naya passed away. 615 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: It was a moment where all of us were kind 616 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: of brought back together for a while in grief, and 617 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: we finally all got to say, you know what I 618 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 1: really think of you, and you know what I really 619 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: think you did, and you know how I really felt 620 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: about that experience. And it was really interesting for me 621 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: to hear the truth that you guys had, which was, 622 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,360 Speaker 1: you know, we had started it in such a tight, 623 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: loving way. And then as it went on and it 624 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 1: became bigger, I sort of felt like I just became 625 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: so overwhelmed by the business aspect of it that I 626 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: became almost like an absentee father who shows up at 627 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: the end of the day and pats the kids. And 628 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: I had no idea to think that. You guys were like, 629 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: where did dad go? Why? What? Where did you go? 630 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: And where I was at was I was in meetings 631 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: looking at glee merch, trying to pick the right color 632 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: of blue, or planning the tour, or dealing with the 633 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: ratings or right the awards. Yes, it was. It was, 634 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,200 Speaker 1: And it was interesting to go through that experience with 635 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 1: you guys not so long ago, to sort of sit 636 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: and be like, huh, yeah, I kind of that up. 637 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,160 Speaker 1: And I wish I had been more present. I wish 638 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: I had known. I wish I had known how to 639 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: be um a proper parent like I did not know. 640 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: I was making it up as I was going along. 641 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about that whole experience was that 642 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: it really did prepare me for parenting. It taught me 643 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: a lot about how to be with young people, what 644 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: to do and what not to do and also more importantly, 645 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: like the most important thing is the human connection, and um, yeah, 646 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: all the other stuff doesn't matter, like the tour should 647 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: should not have mattered. And I wish I had just 648 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: sat my ass on that set and enjoyed the experience 649 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: and was there just because I remember sometimes when I 650 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: would show up later and waft in in my black 651 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 1: vampire outfits just sit there that you know, like I 652 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: remember just like you guys would look at me like 653 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: mm hmmmmnet there was a disconnect and then but slowly 654 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: you would all I would, I would, you know, be 655 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: sitting there and slowly the next thing that we'd be 656 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: sitting there singing Andy Monica songs like we did when 657 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,000 Speaker 1: we were making the pilot and it felt like, oh, 658 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 1: that feeling that we all had the love that we 659 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: had for that's just each other, but what we were doing, 660 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: UM was still there. And I think a lot about 661 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,399 Speaker 1: and you know, and also I had, UM I've never 662 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: been as close to a cast. I've never tried to 663 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: be as close to a cast, because I think that 664 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: all of our lines like where we friends, was I 665 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: your boss? I I was I was Actually the thing 666 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: that people also think about shoan Runners is like, you know, 667 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: we actually all worked for the same person. We were 668 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: all employees of Fox. I was not your boss. I 669 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: was an employee, although I was given this sort of 670 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,399 Speaker 1: position of power that I really was not prepared for. 671 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,439 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was a It was a particularly those 672 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: beginning years were really really heavy and overwhelming. But I 673 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: have to say I look back on it with a 674 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,240 Speaker 1: real great degree of of affection because for every bad moment, 675 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: there were like a hundred great moments. And I just 676 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 1: the thing that I remember so vividly was I had 677 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: a house account at the Chateau Armant and I cannot 678 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 1: tell you how many nights we as a group shut 679 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: that place down. I mean we had a ball. We 680 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: had a ball, and I remember even some of the 681 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,400 Speaker 1: first award shows we went to as a group. We 682 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: won't name them, but I just remember us having a 683 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: sense of what is happening, like it was so fun. 684 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: It was, it was so fun, and we we had 685 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: a ball, and we were just always together. We were 686 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: always together, whether it was filming at dinner, we were 687 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,799 Speaker 1: together more than we were with our own families. And 688 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: and I think you're right, run like, thanks for sharing that. 689 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:53,479 Speaker 1: I feel like in a parallel, parallel universe we were 690 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: going through the same thing where we didn't we weren't 691 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: prepared for what was happening in our lives, and we 692 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: weren't prepared for it, and we loved this show, and 693 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: we you know, I I look back with very fond memories. 694 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 1: Now a million good things outweigh the one bad thing 695 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: in the press that we see these days. You know, 696 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: a million great things that weren't talked about, And I 697 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 1: think that's what we want to do on this show, 698 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: is share all of those. But you know, in this 699 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,439 Speaker 1: parallel universe, like the show was ours for those first 700 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: thirteen twenty episodes or however many we did before the 701 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 1: world kind of took it. And that's that was for 702 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: us to make for them in many ways, like it 703 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: changed many lives, it saved lives, and and I'm so 704 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,439 Speaker 1: grateful for that because it kept us going and those 705 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: really hard and seasons of like people are still hanging 706 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: on and still with us and still really enjoying this, 707 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: so we do it for them. But um early on, 708 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: like it was ours and then all the power and 709 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: everything was kind of like it became so external, and 710 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: that was like an incredibly difficult shift that none of us, 711 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: I think had the time or energy to process at 712 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: that point. We were so exhausted and we were still working. 713 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: You were you started horror story at that point, Like 714 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: there were a million things going on that like nobody 715 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: got to sit in process until you come to a 716 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: point where you lose one friend, you lose two friends, 717 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: you lose three friends, you lose crew members, you lose 718 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: all these really important people in such a momentous time 719 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: in your life that you go back and go, what 720 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: was it really about? What was it that made it 721 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,279 Speaker 1: so special that gives you that feeling of Like I 722 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: remember when we went to the upfronts for the first 723 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: time and we watched that trailer that we had made, 724 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 1: and I was bawling and They're like everybody's laughing at me, 725 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: but I was like, I love this thing. I get it, 726 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: like I got it before I think some people got 727 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: in and I was. I just so attached to it 728 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: and attached to all of us and this little family 729 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: that we had made. So yeah, I think I agree 730 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:57,760 Speaker 1: with you. Like I look at back at that period 731 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:03,920 Speaker 1: and I remember being emotional about every cut, like showing 732 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,799 Speaker 1: you guys and sitting in those rooms and crying. And 733 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: I think, if you look back at it, it it was 734 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: a very interesting group of people because all of us 735 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: had something in common. And the thing that when I 736 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 1: look back is we all were kind of nerds, and 737 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: we all felt unloved and unseen, not just maybe in 738 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: our families but by the business. We all were like 739 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: these kind of people that had weird, unique talents that 740 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,880 Speaker 1: were unseen and finally we got to show them. And 741 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: then against all odds, people loved us after hating us 742 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,959 Speaker 1: for so long. At least that's how I felt. And 743 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: that's a very emotional thing that we went through because 744 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,280 Speaker 1: we were kind of united. We were all marginalized people 745 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 1: and suddenly we became the establishment and the trend setters, 746 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,839 Speaker 1: and that also can screw with your ego, and that 747 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: was also very interesting and bizarre to me, and um 748 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 1: a lesson learned. But yeah, I just I just, you know, 749 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: it's that thing. I always think, like, God, I really 750 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 1: did love it, and if I could, those those two 751 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: years I will say, from the making of the Glee 752 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: pilot probably to two thousand and eleven were, without questioned, 753 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 1: the happiest years of my life. Without a doubt. I 754 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,359 Speaker 1: look back on that time and I think, wow, that's 755 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: what I was doing Glee. That's when I met my 756 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: better I mean, I've been friends with my better half, 757 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: but you know, I started dating him because he was 758 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: dating some guy who was like twenty years old. And 759 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: he called me up after a long time where I 760 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: hadn't spoken to me. He said, can you get me 761 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: Glee tickets from the guy? I'm like, you've got to 762 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: be kidding, and so he I got. I'm like, okay, 763 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: So I got him tickets to the Radio City Glee thing. 764 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,359 Speaker 1: And I was, you know, chain smoking at the time, 765 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: so I was rail thin, and I was wearing this 766 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: Jill sound or coat and I looked good for like 767 00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,720 Speaker 1: two weeks in my life. And that was the period. 768 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: And then he saw remember the skinny mini, and then 769 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: he was like, who is what happened here? So that 770 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: that's how I started to date David that night and 771 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: then we kis married right David's But it's sort of 772 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,920 Speaker 1: that was a great period in my life. Of listen, 773 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: there were battle royal's but it was fun because you know, 774 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: again I get back to it was the first the 775 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,400 Speaker 1: first big success, the first moment in the spotlight where 776 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 1: you know, we were all kids, I think, knowing all 777 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: you guys who were singing in front of mirrors with 778 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 1: hair brushes, and then you get to be in a 779 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: global stage doing something like that, it was a wondrous time. 780 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,320 Speaker 1: It was constantly, every single day was like all of 781 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,439 Speaker 1: our wildest dreams coming true. I feel like, as easy 782 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: as it is now to look back and be like, yeah, 783 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,399 Speaker 1: here are things we could have done differently, I also 784 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,760 Speaker 1: feel like and that in the beginning, by you putting 785 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 1: yourself out there to be our friend, you know, and 786 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 1: be that close to us, for better or for worse, 787 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 1: it did make us feel safe and protected. Though. It 788 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:10,239 Speaker 1: did allow us to show up every day and to 789 00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,240 Speaker 1: show our unique abilities and talents and skills that nobody 790 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,479 Speaker 1: else cared to see before. And so I do think 791 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: because of that, because of the tone you said that, yeah, 792 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: even if we hadn't seen you for a while and 793 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: you'd come out set, we'd still run over to you 794 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: because you felt like a foundational aspect of who we are, 795 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: who we are or were in relationship to the show, 796 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,479 Speaker 1: and so you allowed us to be all of those things. 797 00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: You pushed us to be our better selves and get 798 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,520 Speaker 1: our talent out there as much as possible. In the 799 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 1: very beginning, yes we're retired. Yeah yeah. And then of 800 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,760 Speaker 1: course it was that thing where you know, I also 801 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: had I remember like I I was the person that 802 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: also had to be the disciplinarian about some of these things, 803 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: like you know, laying down the law, which is absolutely 804 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,279 Speaker 1: absurd now, like you know what it should have been. 805 00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: There should have been some person who was just in 806 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: charge of schedules and personalities, and it's like, you know, 807 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 1: there was there was no exactly but you know, like 808 00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: I'll just speak graphically and we can cut it out, 809 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 1: you know, like if you want. But I started off 810 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,640 Speaker 1: that job as a writer and a producer, and halfway 811 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 1: through that job, because of the phenomenon that it became 812 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 1: and the things that then happened when you were part 813 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 1: of a phenomenon, and some of them are good, some 814 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: of them are bad, you know, I had to deal 815 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: with things that are absolutely batshit crazy out of my knowledge. 816 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: Like I had no idea about how to handle domestic violence. 817 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 1: I had no idea how to handle addiction. I had 818 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: no idea how to handle unwanted pregnancies. I had no 819 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: idea how to do any of these things. So I 820 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: was in this role of like the boss but also 821 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:08,600 Speaker 1: a friend and actually loving everyone. And then it was 822 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: just very, very overwhelming, and um again, it really did 823 00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: teach me about parenting and what not to do, what 824 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,839 Speaker 1: to do and yeah, and I'm just I'm just so 825 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: relieved and thrilled that at the end of the day. 826 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: And again, I'll go back to the Naya thing, which 827 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,879 Speaker 1: was incredibly healing, but I'm glad that we all got 828 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: to have these It was like a couple of weeks 829 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: to really talk about what Glee did to us and 830 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: what Glee did for us, and those are two very 831 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: different things. And it was really healing and getting to 832 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: because you and I would tell you guys, like, Okay, 833 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 1: you had that feeling, but did you know that when 834 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: that was going on, I was doing X X Y Y, 835 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: and you guys had no idea because I would always 836 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,040 Speaker 1: keep that stuff from you for the most part. But 837 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 1: that was that was interesting to share what I was 838 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,279 Speaker 1: going through too, because so many times I think you 839 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: guys would think that I was just this sort of 840 00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:07,799 Speaker 1: automaton dressed in calmed Garson who would come level but 841 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: it wasn't that I was torn up and struggling and 842 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. I found it interesting when 843 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: when we did you the night when Naya I went missing, 844 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,600 Speaker 1: you called me Ryan, and I remember thinking, because at 845 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: that point I was we were all distraught and you know, 846 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,479 Speaker 1: wondering what was happening. And I remember in the sense 847 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,319 Speaker 1: that I had anytime I talked to you always talked 848 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,400 Speaker 1: about Glee with sort of this I don't know if 849 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: it was anger or it wasn't definitely wasn't positivity. It 850 00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: was sort of like I'm over at everything's annoying, everyone's whatever. 851 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,280 Speaker 1: And you called me and I was sort of like, look, 852 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: I don't know how it came up, but I was like, 853 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what impression you have of the show, 854 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,879 Speaker 1: but it has brought a lot of us, a lot 855 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: of good and a lot of positivity and a lot 856 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:15,000 Speaker 1: of joy. And and then from there you and I 857 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,320 Speaker 1: talked every day for I don't know, almost a month, 858 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 1: and very quickly it turned into you know, what do 859 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: we all have to lose by not talking to you 860 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,840 Speaker 1: directly into each other about the things that brought us together, 861 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:36,359 Speaker 1: and then what sort of took us apart? And it 862 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:41,239 Speaker 1: was very interesting also to like watch your transformation sort 863 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: of every phone call of also working through things the 864 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: way we were also all working through things, and I 865 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: felt like it was very um as and it was 866 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,759 Speaker 1: such odd timing but made sense that It's like, of 867 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 1: course Nia is going to just have us talk about everything, 868 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 1: through everything out there as she would. And it was 869 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: through grief, like you said, be able to completely sort 870 00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,839 Speaker 1: of like open up all the wounds from everyone and 871 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:11,839 Speaker 1: just spill it. And you were like, I'll take it. 872 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,399 Speaker 1: I will sit there and i will take it because 873 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: I want everyone to know that I'm listening and hearing 874 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 1: what they're saying and I'm accepting, you know, their experience, 875 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: and I was on the other side of it, and um, 876 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,520 Speaker 1: it is interesting now to hear how you've also like 877 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,080 Speaker 1: shifted and had this more you know, positive outlook, because 878 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,359 Speaker 1: I think it's it's so easy to get way down, 879 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 1: especially externally by all like the ship people say who 880 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,880 Speaker 1: weren't involved in it at all, and it's like, no, 881 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:49,319 Speaker 1: we spent years having just incredible, incredible, positive, joyful experiences 882 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 1: and getting to do craziest things like in one weekend 883 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,640 Speaker 1: we performed on Oprah and then went to the White 884 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:55,880 Speaker 1: House and hung out at the White House and then 885 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: performed at the White House. Did it was like we 886 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,560 Speaker 1: would rather you did. I was there, you were there, 887 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,919 Speaker 1: We were doing insane things, and there were so many 888 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,440 Speaker 1: great things that we And the reason we're always going 889 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,960 Speaker 1: to be connected like this and so deeply is because 890 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,440 Speaker 1: only we only have each other to relate to end this, 891 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,319 Speaker 1: because nobody else went through this, and we all went 892 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: through a very specific set of circumstances. And so I 893 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: think that's also why we feel things so deeply with 894 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,759 Speaker 1: each other. Where the highs are high and the lows 895 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 1: are low, is because like family, it's like, well, I 896 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,319 Speaker 1: have no one else to relate to on this, so 897 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,920 Speaker 1: like I, I either hate you or I love you, 898 00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,719 Speaker 1: and I can say I hate you because I love you. 899 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: And so it's sort of that high school drama that 900 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,640 Speaker 1: you know doesn't ever and unless you face a head 901 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,400 Speaker 1: on which you sort of spearheaded, that wasn't That was 902 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:54,560 Speaker 1: an interesting um switch for me at Also other things 903 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,400 Speaker 1: started to happen at that time, right, I mean, I 904 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,839 Speaker 1: think the thing for me is like that idea of 905 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: being a part of a cultural phenomenon and sort of 906 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,439 Speaker 1: going so high that once you're so high, you can 907 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,640 Speaker 1: only come down, and the feeling coming down is not 908 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,600 Speaker 1: good for anybody. It doesn't feel good. And then the 909 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,359 Speaker 1: media starts to take, you know, shots at you and 910 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,279 Speaker 1: punish you for the thing that they actually rewarded you 911 00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: for identically six months before so. And then you did 912 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,759 Speaker 1: warn us of that, by the way, I distinctly, but 913 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,760 Speaker 1: I guess we were super young, but you did walk 914 00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,399 Speaker 1: us through those things until it happens. It's sort of 915 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: unbelievable theoretical. I think the thing that happened for me 916 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:39,000 Speaker 1: was there was a there was a turning point for 917 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 1: me where, um, I was in it. I was in it. 918 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: I was and then you know that thing where you're 919 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,279 Speaker 1: like the gay kid, who, what do you mean? You're 920 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,919 Speaker 1: gonna make my dream horror show and green light that? Yes? 921 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:52,880 Speaker 1: What do you mean? I can go do the normal 922 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: heart yes? Like I just was so thinking that I 923 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,719 Speaker 1: would never work again that I took the yeses and 924 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: then I started to build this business that I've really enjoyed, 925 00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,880 Speaker 1: and that kind of took me further out to see. 926 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: And then I think you guys felt further estrange for 927 00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,239 Speaker 1: me because physically I wasn't there creatively. Then you know, 928 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: we added a writer's room and it became a bigger thing. 929 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,719 Speaker 1: And I think the thing that happened for me to 930 00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,320 Speaker 1: be blunt was, you know, Corey died, and then after 931 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:26,280 Speaker 1: Corey's death and I had to plan a memorial service, 932 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't, I don't know how to 933 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: do this anymore. I can't, I don't know what to do. Um. 934 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,839 Speaker 1: And it was so painful and dark, and I think 935 00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,799 Speaker 1: we all felt that. But you know, there was also 936 00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,440 Speaker 1: a very large crew who had been with us from 937 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:47,840 Speaker 1: the beginning who was very little, yeah, just no turnover. 938 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: It was a family, and people wanted to keep working, 939 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,360 Speaker 1: and well not everybody, there were a few that didn't, 940 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,920 Speaker 1: but UM, I just think that after that, I was 941 00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: sort of like Elvis has left the building. I think 942 00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: my spirit had gone out of it. And I was 943 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: so devastated by his death, UM that I had to 944 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,680 Speaker 1: step away from my own mental health, even though I 945 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,560 Speaker 1: didn't call it mental health at the time. So it 946 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 1: did become like this sort of thing where there was 947 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,920 Speaker 1: a lot of space between us. But then recently what 948 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,319 Speaker 1: has happened is we all, most of us got back 949 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,160 Speaker 1: together in a very adult good way and had adult conversations. 950 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,799 Speaker 1: You guys are adults now you're not kids, you know, 951 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:30,640 Speaker 1: And sort of that was a shift in all of 952 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,560 Speaker 1: your lives. You have partners, you have children, like um, 953 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: you process it differently. And then now you know, Glee 954 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,880 Speaker 1: is on Hulu, It's on Disney Plus, and every day 955 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,160 Speaker 1: there are people who reach out to me about my 956 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,040 Speaker 1: eight year old is watching this show. And these young 957 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,560 Speaker 1: people have no memory of it being in the media 958 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:59,520 Speaker 1: and a cultural phenomenon. They're just loving the musical experience 959 00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:01,400 Speaker 1: of it. So that to me has been sort of 960 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,360 Speaker 1: reinvigorating and like, oh, the work lasted and the works 961 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:09,440 Speaker 1: tested the you know. And it's also hilarious to me 962 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,319 Speaker 1: some of the stuff that we did in those later 963 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 1: seasons that were so mercilessly attacked by the press. Example, 964 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,320 Speaker 1: remember when we did those scenes with Sue as Jigsaw 965 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,200 Speaker 1: and and like the Puppet and Jane had the hurt Rocker. 966 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,200 Speaker 1: I believe that there were there were many columns written 967 00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,399 Speaker 1: about that I should be killed for those scenes, but 968 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: now they are among the most beloved watched streamed like, 969 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,879 Speaker 1: so it's interesting, like everything comes still wrong, You're still 970 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 1: wrong for what the Fox is Kevin and Style. Okay, 971 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,799 Speaker 1: let's talk about these two songs, which I have been 972 00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,360 Speaker 1: a gang of style and what the Fox says. I 973 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,560 Speaker 1: would like you to put yourself in my little I 974 00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,360 Speaker 1: understand why you did it? Understand Okay, twenty two episodes 975 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,239 Speaker 1: a year to fill. Right, So when you're doing it 976 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,920 Speaker 1: and you're like, well, what's that. That's what's at the 977 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,279 Speaker 1: top of the charts, like, um, yeah, And if you 978 00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 1: look at that show, you can also look at like 979 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,800 Speaker 1: what was popular and what was classic, like it was 980 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:23,800 Speaker 1: a weird mixture. And yes, I will say Gangham style 981 00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,080 Speaker 1: not the best moment, but there was a reason why 982 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,600 Speaker 1: it was only because it was so incredibly popular. And 983 00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,840 Speaker 1: Glee in some regards, was like the jukebox musical of 984 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 1: its day, the top of the pops. You could tune 985 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: in to see what was totally popular. But I don't know, 986 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,279 Speaker 1: is that is that your least favorite number? Nay. I 987 00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,879 Speaker 1: felt like I was the last one to break out 988 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,760 Speaker 1: of the cast, the last and that was my breaking 989 00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:59,600 Speaker 1: point because I think I think it's because I don't 990 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, but there was something about having puppets 991 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: and doing that and doing that number or I it 992 00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:13,640 Speaker 1: was just like what fever? Dream? What has happened? Dream? 993 00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:16,240 Speaker 1: And there's an actual shot of me looking into the 994 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:21,160 Speaker 1: camera where I'm just like, I don't know. I think 995 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,040 Speaker 1: it was just because like, okay, am I allowed to break? 996 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,640 Speaker 1: Now everyone else has broken. It took a very long 997 00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,040 Speaker 1: time for you. And this is my reaction. But I 998 00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,320 Speaker 1: will say, do you remember, like, speaking of all the 999 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,200 Speaker 1: current music, people used to send you their music, like 1000 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,360 Speaker 1: I remember Gaga sent you Born Born this Way album 1001 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,520 Speaker 1: because Brad and you you guys walked back onto set 1002 00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,760 Speaker 1: and Brad was like, oh, yeah, we just Lady Gaga's 1003 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 1: people brought us over their music. Brad Falchuk the straightest 1004 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,560 Speaker 1: man on earth talking about listening to Lady Gaga and 1005 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,240 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, how was it like? 1006 00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,680 Speaker 1: And he was like, oh yeah, there's probably some hits 1007 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,160 Speaker 1: on there. I'm like, where's Ryan? And so I knew 1008 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: exactly what the hits with ye like that was? That was? 1009 00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,160 Speaker 1: That was? You know, that was That was a very 1010 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:11,240 Speaker 1: interesting period and again McCartney sent his music over. UM. 1011 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:15,560 Speaker 1: I learned a lot from that period. Um. That was 1012 00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:20,440 Speaker 1: a weird period where when Glee became popular that we 1013 00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:22,840 Speaker 1: could reach out to any artist in the world, and 1014 00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:28,880 Speaker 1: they would pretty much say yes except a few yeah. 1015 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,400 Speaker 1: But I also learned something like that from that, like 1016 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: you know that whole Kings of Leon thing when when 1017 00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,240 Speaker 1: that was the first rejection, I think, and I took 1018 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,360 Speaker 1: it personally and I gave an interview with a lot 1019 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 1: of you briss in a really big head and and 1020 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,560 Speaker 1: said really stupid things, And looking back on it, I 1021 00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,840 Speaker 1: feel like they were right, like you as an artist 1022 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,640 Speaker 1: should be allowed to, you know, do with your music 1023 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,240 Speaker 1: what you will. And I should never have said anything. 1024 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,880 Speaker 1: I that was just the I learned a lot of 1025 00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,320 Speaker 1: life lessons and I was such a jerk in that interview. 1026 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,160 Speaker 1: I don't know why I said some stupid thing about 1027 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:06,600 Speaker 1: depriving America's children of Kings of Leam. I don't remember that, 1028 00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,600 Speaker 1: but it was. It was not good. Don't remember then 1029 00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:14,360 Speaker 1: they came out because I was devastated. I love you. 1030 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,680 Speaker 1: I love that we were sitting in the same row 1031 00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,160 Speaker 1: as them at the Grammys. I was like, oh, I 1032 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:26,800 Speaker 1: was like, this is embarrassing. I love you. I had 1033 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,440 Speaker 1: I had that moment with Dave Grohl, who I really 1034 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,200 Speaker 1: love as an artist, and he spoke out against that interview. 1035 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if you recall saying, who is this 1036 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,680 Speaker 1: guy saying something? And I was going to some another 1037 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,000 Speaker 1: awful award show moment and he was in front of 1038 00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:46,200 Speaker 1: me and turned around and goes, oh, hi hi, He goes, 1039 00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: It's all good. He was such a lovely guy. And 1040 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: he was such a lovely guy. But again, things that 1041 00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:55,560 Speaker 1: you learned, Like I never had any media training. I 1042 00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,320 Speaker 1: was just so thrilled to literally have Taylor Swift and 1043 00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Beyonce an Adele remember Adele Adele would talk about her 1044 01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,640 Speaker 1: love of Glee and her love of Amber and just 1045 01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 1: like that was that was amazing, Like to be a 1046 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,280 Speaker 1: part of those that experience with that level of artists, 1047 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:20,400 Speaker 1: To have Stevie Nicks show up on set and send flowers, 1048 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,360 Speaker 1: remember that huge flower arrangement she sent, that craft room 1049 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,160 Speaker 1: we had, she gave, she talked to us in the 1050 01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,840 Speaker 1: Glee in the classroom, and she was It was just 1051 01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:35,480 Speaker 1: like that really great period where as a fan, you 1052 01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,800 Speaker 1: could say, or I could say, like I wanted to 1053 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:43,000 Speaker 1: do songs and pay tribute to people that I loved, 1054 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,000 Speaker 1: like Barbara Streisan. You know, I got to meet Barbara 1055 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,000 Speaker 1: because of Glee and become friends with her. So it 1056 01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:50,520 Speaker 1: was like past and present, but it was it was. 1057 01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:52,480 Speaker 1: It was that show in the in the in the 1058 01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:59,160 Speaker 1: moment in time, was UM an indisputable force in terms 1059 01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,320 Speaker 1: of I was would say, you know, showcasing the love 1060 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,200 Speaker 1: of music, and to me, that's what it really was about. 1061 01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,240 Speaker 1: It was about I love music. Music is something that 1062 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:12,880 Speaker 1: brings people together. It's a great equalizer. I, you know, 1063 01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,400 Speaker 1: had the lead in every musical in high school. One 1064 01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,960 Speaker 1: of my great tragedies is that I did not become 1065 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,160 Speaker 1: a pop music singer. What I really wanted to be 1066 01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,640 Speaker 1: was a pop music singer and or the editor in 1067 01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: chief of Vogue, and I could not do either of them, 1068 01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,560 Speaker 1: which is why I'm doing what I'm doing. So we know, 1069 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:34,840 Speaker 1: you can run a little bit. I can't actually, and 1070 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:42,560 Speaker 1: by run we mean I only I only could do 1071 01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,760 Speaker 1: one thing. But it was just fun and UM that's 1072 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:51,400 Speaker 1: the that's the joy of that show is UM. I 1073 01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,640 Speaker 1: think the love of music that even if you watch it, 1074 01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,040 Speaker 1: I think you can tell now because I went back 1075 01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:57,920 Speaker 1: in preparation for this and watch some of the old 1076 01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:00,840 Speaker 1: episodes and you can tell, like, oh, they really did 1077 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,720 Speaker 1: love what they were doing and they really did have 1078 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,720 Speaker 1: a great appreciation and admiration for these artists, and we 1079 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,800 Speaker 1: were interpreting them in different ways and mashing things up, 1080 01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,960 Speaker 1: and it was all like love letters to me, except 1081 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,800 Speaker 1: Gangham style not a love letter. Three am, what are 1082 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,200 Speaker 1: we going to do in here? But I still love 1083 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: that song I do. I'm sorry, I love it selfishly. 1084 01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,560 Speaker 1: I mean that K pop episode. I remember Brad turning 1085 01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,440 Speaker 1: to me. He's like, do you I heard you like 1086 01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,400 Speaker 1: K pop? I was like, I love K pop. He's like, 1087 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:33,959 Speaker 1: what can we put in the background of the scene. 1088 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll send you a whole list and I 1089 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:40,080 Speaker 1: got my favorite K pop artists? You did? Yes, we're 1090 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,320 Speaker 1: like rehearsing to to Big Bang, which was my favorite 1091 01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,960 Speaker 1: group at the time. But what season was this? What 1092 01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,120 Speaker 1: was this? No? God three or four must have been 1093 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,000 Speaker 1: later um in the spirit of like artists and all 1094 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:56,000 Speaker 1: these amazing people. What about the guest stars and and 1095 01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,280 Speaker 1: talk about the casting of the pilot as well, like 1096 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,880 Speaker 1: were you pitched big name like and what made you 1097 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:08,560 Speaker 1: decide to go with all of us little unknown? You know, well, 1098 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:14,400 Speaker 1: that was a that was a wondrous, amazing um casting 1099 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,000 Speaker 1: session that I've really only had once since, and that 1100 01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:19,880 Speaker 1: was with the cast of Pose. It was a very 1101 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:26,479 Speaker 1: similar idea, which was, let's let's make stars. Let's there's 1102 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,439 Speaker 1: so much talent out there, let's let's find people. When 1103 01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:36,160 Speaker 1: we were writing the the pilot, I've never really talked 1104 01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,080 Speaker 1: about this. That pilot was written for Justin Timber, Mr 1105 01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,880 Speaker 1: Shoe was written for Justice. Wait a second, hold up, 1106 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:48,560 Speaker 1: this is actually brand new information. I think we need 1107 01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:52,120 Speaker 1: to pause and we'll we will talk about this next time. 1108 01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,320 Speaker 1: So come back next week to hear the second part 1109 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:00,320 Speaker 1: of our almost three hour conversation with Ryan Murphy, because 1110 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:02,440 Speaker 1: you don't want to miss it. It's just getting started.