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Speaker 1: dot com. Welcome to the Piketon Massacre, a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Katie Studios grown up around him. Here's such
Speaker 1: a sweetheart and everything. Jake Wagner, he originally pleaded not
Speaker 1: guilty to the murder of eight Rodent family members, saying
Speaker 1: him say that he was guilty, I am guil It
Speaker 1: just gives you a complete chills. Admitted to personally killing
Speaker 1: five of the eight into trying to burn and get
Speaker 1: rid of Avid. And he'll now avoid the death penalty
Speaker 1: and spend the rest of his life in prison. If
Speaker 1: I've done something to making that outrageously mad, he could
Speaker 1: have killed me too. Wagners showed a little to no
Speaker 1: emotion in cour today, just answering yes or no to
Speaker 1: the judge. But his life was controlled all the time.
Speaker 1: Special Prosecutor said the Wagners were a cult like family.
Speaker 1: I think it was still Angelo behind the scene, control
Speaker 1: and everything, like a little puppet master. This is the
Speaker 1: Pikedon Massacre. Returned to Pike County season two, Episode two,
Speaker 1: Cinnamon and hay M Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at
Speaker 1: Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and Jeff Shane. On April
Speaker 1: twenty second, twenty twenty one, Jake Wagner pleaded guilty to
Speaker 1: twenty three counts, including eight aggravated murder charges, in the
Speaker 1: Rodin murder case. The motive behind the killings back in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, according to prosecutors, was a custody dispute between
Speaker 1: Jake and victim hannahme Rodin over their young daughter. As
Speaker 1: it stands, the other three Wagners accused in the murders,
Speaker 1: Jake's father Billy, mother Angela, and brother George, have all
Speaker 1: pled not guilty. The day that Jake appeared in court
Speaker 1: for his plea deal, we caught up with Christina Howard.
Speaker 1: Her sister Tabby had a relationship with the accused eldest son,
Speaker 1: George Wagner. The two were married and had a son together,
Speaker 1: but eventually divorced. When you found out for a fact
Speaker 1: that Jake was guilty, what was your reaction? My reaction
Speaker 1: was like wow, in a way, kind of speechless, because
Speaker 1: me and Hamm were friends when we were younger. You
Speaker 1: never really think about somebody who is or once was
Speaker 1: a friend, being able to take so many lives like that.
Speaker 1: Last season, Christina told us a little bit about a
Speaker 1: custody dispute that ensued between Tabby and George Wagner. After
Speaker 1: the couple split up. It piqued our interest when we
Speaker 1: heard about it, since it foreshadowed what was to come
Speaker 1: for hannahme Roden. Christina was a little hesitant to divulge
Speaker 1: too much last time we spoke, but in light of
Speaker 1: Jake's please, she chose to delve into Tabby's story a
Speaker 1: little more, and what we found is far darker and
Speaker 1: much more disturbing than we could have ever imagined. What
Speaker 1: follows is Christina's recollection of the events. Christina's relationship with
Speaker 1: the Wagner family goes back to her childhood. Her mother
Speaker 1: began working for grandmother of the acute used Frederica Wagner,
Speaker 1: whom Christina affectionately refers to as Freddie. When she was
Speaker 1: a kid, she was a grandmother too in a way.
Speaker 1: I would go to work with my mother and I
Speaker 1: would hang around Freddie a lot, and she treated my
Speaker 1: family pretty kindly. On holidays, she would always get me
Speaker 1: and my sister's presents, and I have Christmas dinners and
Speaker 1: Easter dinners, and it was like, you know, us being
Speaker 1: part of her family, and it was pretty nice. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Christina and her sister Tabby met Frederica's grandsons, George and
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner. Christina told Jeff that George and Tabby hit
Speaker 1: it off and soon became a couple. They got together
Speaker 1: when they were young teens. I think my sister was
Speaker 1: like thirteen fourteen, you know, and they ended up liking
Speaker 1: each other. Did you think that George was bad news?
Speaker 1: He was a little bit of a travelmaker. Christina would
Speaker 1: often tag along when Tabby went to visit George at
Speaker 1: the Wagner's home. They had like this pretty little like
Speaker 1: house up on the hill, and they had like their
Speaker 1: own little pond up there. It was pretty isolated. They
Speaker 1: had a privacy gate at the bottom that in order
Speaker 1: to get in, somebody up at the top of the
Speaker 1: house would have to come down and unlock it. Me, George, Jake,
Speaker 1: and Tabby we would like go outside and you know,
Speaker 1: do young dumb teenager kid type stuff and play tag,
Speaker 1: jump on the trampoline and the treehouse and all that.
Speaker 1: It was really fun and we could be as rowdy
Speaker 1: as a noisy as we wanted because they didn't have
Speaker 1: no neighbors whatsoever. While George and Tabby were hanging out,
Speaker 1: Christina struck up a friendship with Jake Wagner. Jake was
Speaker 1: actually a really nice kid. Me and him were kind
Speaker 1: of friends. It was pretty cool. He was really nice,
Speaker 1: kind of shy, who played video games, all that good stuff.
Speaker 1: As a kid. Jake struck Christina as kind and almost
Speaker 1: unusually empathetic. I remember in Jake's bedroom, you know, he
Speaker 1: had his own little peev and video game system and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and he had this one stuff duck,
Speaker 1: and it was like hanging on the wall or something,
Speaker 1: and it kind of gave me the creeps whenever I'm
Speaker 1: a little kid. And he was sweet enough to take
Speaker 1: it off his wall and hide it in his closet
Speaker 1: or something, because the game of the creeps. The more
Speaker 1: time Christina spent at the home, the more familiar she
Speaker 1: became with the boy's mother, accused murderer, Angela Wagner, she
Speaker 1: sometimes referred to as Angie. Christina told Stephanie that on
Speaker 1: the surface, everything about Angela Wagner seemed to personify the
Speaker 1: typical all American mom. Out front was like this nice
Speaker 1: little walk away with flowers and you know, the white
Speaker 1: picket fence except in the country cotton deal. And then
Speaker 1: like you go and find the house or the kitchen,
Speaker 1: and then right beside the kitchen of the living room
Speaker 1: and it's pretty big. They got like this huge section
Speaker 1: all and a nice big TV. And the house smelled
Speaker 1: like it kind of smelled like cinnamon mixed with hay.
Speaker 1: I don't know if she could really imagine that, but like,
Speaker 1: take some may got around everywhere and sprinkle some cinnamon
Speaker 1: in it, and that's what it smelled. Watch Angela would
Speaker 1: make us some snacks or some lunch or whatever. I
Speaker 1: think even like maybe twice she made us dinner. It
Speaker 1: was pretty good. She sounds like a homemaker, which is
Speaker 1: again what makes it so shocking to imagine that she
Speaker 1: had the ability to do something so horrific. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: the more time Christina spent at the Wagner home, the
Speaker 1: relationship between the Wagner boys and their mother came into focus.
Speaker 1: They were always around their mom, no matter what their
Speaker 1: mom said, went always. If they wanted to play outside longer,
Speaker 1: if Angie said no, it was no. I yes, they
Speaker 1: wanted to play their video games longer. If Andy said no,
Speaker 1: it was no. Even if like they slightly disobeyed her,
Speaker 1: she put her foot down, meaning like you better listen
Speaker 1: to me, or I'm gonna book your butt, and they're
Speaker 1: just like, all right, Mama, it didn't matter what Angie said.
Speaker 1: That's what went. As the kids got older, Angela Wagner
Speaker 1: seems to take more control over her boys lives, especially Jake.
Speaker 1: We had a job somewhere and his mom like actually
Speaker 1: made him quit the job because she said that the
Speaker 1: job wasn't good enough for him, meaning Angela Wagner. Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner's mom said, this job's over, it's not good enough
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah. It's like, you know, your mom controls
Speaker 1: your whole entire life. And it wasn't long before Angela
Speaker 1: turned her controlling ways towards Christina's family. Angie made George
Speaker 1: break up with Tabby because Angie didn't like my sister
Speaker 1: because you know, George and Jake were Mama's boys and
Speaker 1: ain't nothing in the world gonna be able to steal
Speaker 1: her boys from her. She was just so controlling. Soon,
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all
Speaker 1: American facade. In some photos that I've seen of Angela,
Speaker 1: she looks smiley and she's pretty and just looks like
Speaker 1: an all American mom. But then in other pictures like
Speaker 1: her mugshot, for example, she's sort of grimacing and has
Speaker 1: a scary vibe. What was she like in prison? In person,
Speaker 1: she was the type you know, to talk about every
Speaker 1: day stuff like how you do, and how's your family
Speaker 1: and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever
Speaker 1: she would talk to you, it felt like an act
Speaker 1: because she was putting on like you know, she was
Speaker 1: looking down on the kind of thing is At least
Speaker 1: that's what I always picked up. She seemed like she
Speaker 1: was put on a math makes people thank so she's
Speaker 1: all right or whatever. But I never really did like her.
Speaker 1: She just spooks me. After the Wagner family was arrested
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, the family's unusual dynamic became a key
Speaker 1: building block in the States case against Angela, Billy Jake,
Speaker 1: and George Wagner. On August thirty first of last year,
Speaker 1: George Wagner appeared in court for a pre trial hearing.
Speaker 1: Special Agent Ryan Scheiterer of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
Speaker 1: Investigation testified that day. He provided details of what authorities
Speaker 1: had uncovered about the Wagner's over two years of investigating.
Speaker 1: Here's Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Scheiterer, how would you
Speaker 1: describe the Wagner family. The Wagner family from what we
Speaker 1: found through the investigation as well as their own admittances,
Speaker 1: they're very close. When I say close, they lived together.
Speaker 1: They've always lived together. There's not been a period of
Speaker 1: time where George Wagner has not lived with his brother
Speaker 1: or his mother. But their finances are intermingled. They worked together,
Speaker 1: They've always worked together. They homeschool together, they raised their
Speaker 1: kids together. Everything is done together. So from a birth
Speaker 1: until the day they were arrested, they lived together. Yes.
Speaker 1: Do you have an opinion as whether or not one
Speaker 1: of them might strike out and go commit some Haynes
Speaker 1: tiding with the out and the others knowing about it
Speaker 1: or participating in it. No, we have an informant who
Speaker 1: says that every decision within that family is made as
Speaker 1: a family decision. Years after Angela Wagner forced George Wagner
Speaker 1: and Tabby Howard's relationship to end, the couple rekindled their romance.
Speaker 1: Soon after, Victim Hanname Rodins started going out with Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner and the Rodens, Wagner's and Howard's became very close.
Speaker 1: Hannah's brother Victim Frankie Rodin even joined the Phray. Hannah
Speaker 1: and Tabby were best friends, and Hannah and Jake were together,
Speaker 1: and Tabby and George were together, and Frankie would hang
Speaker 1: out with him a lot because they were like best
Speaker 1: friends with Frankie, I suppose, so they were always like
Speaker 1: going out hunting and fishing and stuff. Then one day,
Speaker 1: Tabby Howard came to her family with some surprising news.
Speaker 1: She and George Wagner were getting married. We didn't know
Speaker 1: anything about it until shortly before it, so Karen something
Speaker 1: like us, like, wow, that's crazy. Instead of excitement, Christina
Speaker 1: felt something much different based on her time spent around
Speaker 1: the family and accused mother Angela Wagner in particular. It
Speaker 1: just didn't feel right to me, and I thought I'd
Speaker 1: speak my mind about it. I told her, I said, listen,
Speaker 1: you don't want to marry him, And she said, well
Speaker 1: why not? I said, because his mom is very controlling.
Speaker 1: I said, you want to wait a few years and
Speaker 1: see how things go before you, you know, jump into
Speaker 1: getting married to him and stuff. And she said, well,
Speaker 1: you're just full of it. You don't know what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. We love each other and everything, and Angie's
Speaker 1: just trying to look out for me. So towards that part,
Speaker 1: I feel like Angie, you know, like kind of turned
Speaker 1: her against her family a bit more of like a
Speaker 1: I don't need you and I'm gonna spend my time
Speaker 1: with my new family. I get want her to get
Speaker 1: married because of the way I felt, but I felt
Speaker 1: like it wasn't my place, because you know, intervene. If
Speaker 1: she's happy, let her be. If not, she'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: On July first, twenty twelve, all three families gathered for
Speaker 1: Tabby Howard and George Wagner's wedding. That was a normal,
Speaker 1: pretty wedding. It was kind of country because you know type.
Speaker 1: She had a camouflage dress and George she had a
Speaker 1: camo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy around here. They love it.
Speaker 1: Hanging up, you have somebody what their favorite collars and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, it's camouflage. Me and two of my
Speaker 1: sisters and Hannah or her bridesmaids. The bridesmaids we wore
Speaker 1: black dresses. And Jake was George's best man. Obviously, the
Speaker 1: Wagoners were there. There was Freddy, George and Angela and
Speaker 1: Billy and then some of the other Rodents were there
Speaker 1: and I was walking down the aisle with Frankie. They
Speaker 1: had a smash cake I guess you'd call it, you know,
Speaker 1: where you smashing into each other's faces. It was a
Speaker 1: really good wedding. Talk last episode about the photo of
Speaker 1: the Rodents and Wagner's from Tabby and George's wedding, and
Speaker 1: we can't stop looking at it because it's just so chilling.
Speaker 1: The happiness on everyone's face is palpable. But Christina now
Speaker 1: sees details in the pictures she never saw before. In
Speaker 1: my mind, I feel like the people in the picture
Speaker 1: should be sorted out differently, you know, like in this placement,
Speaker 1: it's like Tabby and George just sent off to Spike
Speaker 1: because even though they're getting married, they're not the like
Speaker 1: the main attraction. And Angie is just like top center
Speaker 1: wearing that white dress, like laughing in their face like
Speaker 1: ha ha, y'all are beneath me. Yeah. I was gonna
Speaker 1: ask you because people have different views. But some people
Speaker 1: think you don't wear white to anyone else's wedding. You know,
Speaker 1: why would aye wear white to another person's wedding? I mean,
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to do that, because that is like
Speaker 1: supposed to be like bad juju on the married couple,
Speaker 1: like saying that I hope that your wedding don't wind
Speaker 1: long kind of thing. It's clear that George Wagner and
Speaker 1: Tabby Howard's wedding marked an inflection point in the lives
Speaker 1: of all three families. After that day, nothing would ever
Speaker 1: be the same. Shortly after the wedding, we stopped hearing
Speaker 1: from her. The last thing that we heard from Tabby
Speaker 1: was that she was pregnant was my nephew, and she
Speaker 1: was given birth to him, and that was it. We
Speaker 1: didn't get no pictures of him, no nothing. We didn't
Speaker 1: hear anything from Tabby, nothing from Angela or George or anybody.
Speaker 1: They just like straight up disappeared. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment.
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Speaker 1: Nobody knew where they were, nobody knew what they were
Speaker 1: doing or anything, and it won't like that for a
Speaker 1: couple of years. Everybody was just so concerned about my
Speaker 1: sister because we're like, you know, we literally have not
Speaker 1: heard a thing from her. Then one night, Tabby suddenly
Speaker 1: it was a call, like a random call in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night from a gas station, from a
Speaker 1: number we didn't know, and she's calling us, telling us, hey,
Speaker 1: can you come get me. I'm here at this gas station,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're freaking out, like, what's going on.
Speaker 1: We ain't heard nothing from you in a few years.
Speaker 1: She said, I don't really have time to explain, can
Speaker 1: come get me and all that. So we packed up
Speaker 1: in the car. It was me, my mom and dad
Speaker 1: to go get my sister. And then we get there
Speaker 1: and she's bawling her eyes out. She rode there in
Speaker 1: the middle of the night. It was raining cats and
Speaker 1: dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. She rode there
Speaker 1: on a bike, and the police showed up and put
Speaker 1: my sister in a car in the cock car, asking
Speaker 1: her what was going on and everything, and apparently he
Speaker 1: and George got into a fight. Angie called the cops
Speaker 1: on her and said that she was beating George and
Speaker 1: hitting was a two boy four and everything else, and
Speaker 1: tried to stab him with scissors and all this, And
Speaker 1: Tabby said that that wasn't how it happened. She said
Speaker 1: she was you know, I guess you got into a
Speaker 1: fight with George and Angie and George wouldn't like let
Speaker 1: her go and get his hands off of her. George
Speaker 1: didn't have any marks on him to prove that Tabby
Speaker 1: had beaten him. Tabby didn't have any marks on her
Speaker 1: to prove that he was putting his hands on her.
Speaker 1: So nobody got arrested, just Tabby just got questioned and
Speaker 1: all that, and then you know, she comes home with us,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're sitting there trying to catch up
Speaker 1: on everything with Tabby. Howard told her family that it
Speaker 1: was deeply disturbing. Here's Christina's recollection of her sister's story.
Speaker 1: According to Tabby, Angie wouldn't let her like have a
Speaker 1: phone nan. She always said that Tabby was crazy, and
Speaker 1: she was telling us all about how she was controlling,
Speaker 1: and Tabby said that she wasn't allowed to, you know,
Speaker 1: do anything with her kid, and Angie always said, no,
Speaker 1: you're not, you're crazy, You're an unfit mother. She said
Speaker 1: that she would all the time tell George about what's
Speaker 1: going on and everything, and George was like, oh, it's okay,
Speaker 1: you're just being dramatic. Mom wouldn't do that to you,
Speaker 1: and it's all for your own good blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: We're just looking out for you. But why would they
Speaker 1: do that? What would they have to gain from, you know,
Speaker 1: sitting there keeping my sisters they basically a prisoner and
Speaker 1: you know, sitting there like mentally abusing her and everything else.
Speaker 1: What would they have the game from it? Other than
Speaker 1: you know, my nephew. Christina's story about Tabby's escape from
Speaker 1: the Wagner household may sound outrageous. However, it was convincing
Speaker 1: enough for Agent Scheiterer to testify about it in court
Speaker 1: during George Wagner's hearing last year. Was George ever married? Yes?
Speaker 1: Who is he married to Tabitha? And did he still
Speaker 1: live with the family at the time during the time
Speaker 1: he was married to Tabitha? Yes, okay, So Tabitha lived
Speaker 1: with them? Yes, okay? And are you aware of what
Speaker 1: happened that ended that relationship? Yes? What happened? She fled
Speaker 1: the relationship. There was an incident on one particular day,
Speaker 1: her and George had gotten into an argument. Scheiderer included
Speaker 1: a few frightening details that Christina hadn't told us. Eventually,
Speaker 1: there was a comment by Angelo that she was going
Speaker 1: to kill Tamithas so she fled to a gas station
Speaker 1: and ultimately never returned, And actually specifically, she first hit
Speaker 1: on the property until nightfall and then drove to a
Speaker 1: gas station and made her escape that way and never
Speaker 1: went back after that. Corrupt Soon after Tabby Howard fled
Speaker 1: the Wagner's household, the family became too much for victim
Speaker 1: Hanname Rodin to bear as well. Hannah. I guess she
Speaker 1: told my sister that that was really courageous of her.
Speaker 1: She was proud of her. She was saying that she
Speaker 1: was tired of it, tired of always being controlled and
Speaker 1: told what to do and everything. So Hannah decided, you know,
Speaker 1: that she was going to leave too. It seems that
Speaker 1: Hanname Rodin left Jake Wagner due to the same reasons
Speaker 1: Tabby Howard left George. Some of these details were illuminated
Speaker 1: at that same he for George Wagner last year. Here's
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa questioning agent Ryan Scheiderer about some messages
Speaker 1: Hannah may had written. There were two other Rodent family members,
Speaker 1: and where about Jake, their breakup and her relationship with
Speaker 1: new boyfriend Charlie Gilly. Were you aware why Hannah May
Speaker 1: left Jake domestic violence issues between Jacobs solving her okay?
Speaker 1: And you observed specific communications about that, Yes, she made
Speaker 1: it aware, she made people aware of it, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: Did she also make comments about the Wagner family as
Speaker 1: a whole being controlling? Yes. After she had left Jake,
Speaker 1: she started seeing another individual and ultimately conceived a second
Speaker 1: child with that individual, correct, yes, okay. And that was
Speaker 1: who Charlie Guilley okay. And are you aware as to
Speaker 1: whether or not Hannah told Jake that she was pregnant
Speaker 1: and that she also told him who the father of
Speaker 1: the child was. She told Jake as well as Angela,
Speaker 1: that she was pregnant and it was Charlie Gilly's child, okay,
Speaker 1: During that time after she was pregnant Charlie Gilly's child.
Speaker 1: In the months leading up to the homicides, did she
Speaker 1: make it clear to Jake that they were not getting
Speaker 1: back together? Very clear? Okay? And had he asked her
Speaker 1: to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to
Speaker 1: try to work out custody between them, Yes, she made
Speaker 1: attempts to get that done, yes, okay. And what was
Speaker 1: she interested in doing that. By the time hannahme Rodin left,
Speaker 1: Tabby Howard was in the middle of her own custody
Speaker 1: battle with Jake's brother, George Wagner. Well, we don't know
Speaker 1: all the details of George Wagner and Tabby's custody case.
Speaker 1: There is evidence to support Christina's account of it. It
Speaker 1: was a preview of what would come to bear for
Speaker 1: Hanna May in the following months. My sister was gonna
Speaker 1: do joint custody. My mom tried to help my sister
Speaker 1: go through court and all that, with all that, you know,
Speaker 1: trying to help her, and my sister told my mom
Speaker 1: she said, no, it's okay, Angie will help me out
Speaker 1: with it. And why she trusted Angie with it is
Speaker 1: beyond me. And why she's still wanted to trust her
Speaker 1: was court. I don't know. I don't know what it
Speaker 1: was running through tabbith head, But somehow she got Tabby
Speaker 1: to sign some paperwork saying that George would get full
Speaker 1: custody of my nephew and that Tabby would only get
Speaker 1: visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to
Speaker 1: leave the property. What's my nephew, Tabby Howard's custody story
Speaker 1: was also highlighted by Agent Scheiderer. Last year, there was
Speaker 1: a divorce with some child custody issues where ultimately she
Speaker 1: was forced to give up all control of her son
Speaker 1: to George. So she gave up all of her parental rights. Okay,
Speaker 1: and when you see she was forced too, did someone
Speaker 1: who would have gone to her head? No? Okay? But
Speaker 1: in fact, what she prosed in the custody proceedings and
Speaker 1: not represented by an attorney correct? Okay? And what George
Speaker 1: was Yes. Despite the Wagner's repeated attempts to keep Tabby
Speaker 1: away from her son, she tried to visit him as
Speaker 1: much as she could. Whenever she would try to reach
Speaker 1: out to George like hey, can I come visit my son,
Speaker 1: Angela would get on there and be like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: not your son anymore. You might have gave bart to him,
Speaker 1: but on his mother because I take care of em
Speaker 1: and all these just nasty things. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a quick break here. We'll be back at a moment.
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Speaker 1: the Hunday two Soon it's your journey. Tabby Howard made
Speaker 1: one last valiant effort to see her son. It was
Speaker 1: an Easter because I remember my sister made her son
Speaker 1: an Easter basket, you know, wanting to give it to
Speaker 1: him for Easter and everything. I went there with her.
Speaker 1: It was me her and my mom, and my mom
Speaker 1: stayed in the car and I got out of the
Speaker 1: car with Tabby and we walked up her you know,
Speaker 1: knocker on the door because she had previously called George
Speaker 1: j askin him if she could come see her son
Speaker 1: and give him an Easter basket. He said, yeah, that's fine,
Speaker 1: come on over and you can see your son and
Speaker 1: give him his Easter basket. And she said all right.
Speaker 1: So we went there, and then once we got there,
Speaker 1: Angie answered the door, and you know, Tabby said, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm here to see my son. Can I have a
Speaker 1: few minutes, you know, spend a few minutes with him
Speaker 1: for Easter? She said, let me go get George, and
Speaker 1: then she slammed the door, and my sister's faith and
Speaker 1: we're sitting out there wait in a good ten fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: and then George comes out. She asked George, she said,
Speaker 1: what was that about why was your mom, you know,
Speaker 1: being hateful. I didn't do anything. And he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's just not in a good move today. And she said,
Speaker 1: where's our son? You know, I'd like to see him.
Speaker 1: You said I could come see him. He said, oh,
Speaker 1: he's in there with a fever right now. He's sick
Speaker 1: from staying up all night and day throwing a fit
Speaker 1: and everything else, you know, just coming up with another excuse.
Speaker 1: And then my sister started crying. She said, well, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to see my son. You said I could.
Speaker 1: What's the problem. Man. He was till her like, oh,
Speaker 1: don't cry, Everything's all right. And then he like tried
Speaker 1: to hug her, and she said, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to hug you know. She said, don't touch me, and
Speaker 1: he's like, all right, I won't touch you. You know.
Speaker 1: She was like wiping away her tears and stuff. She said, well,
Speaker 1: can you at least give this to our son, and
Speaker 1: if you have time, whenever he gets it, can you
Speaker 1: send me a picture of him with it, Even if
Speaker 1: it's just a picture. I'm happy to see my son.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he ever got the Eastern basket
Speaker 1: or not, or if they threw it away. I don't know,
Speaker 1: like Tabby Howard victim, Hannim Rodin kept up the fight
Speaker 1: for her child after she and Jake Wagner had broken up.
Speaker 1: But the Rodents had one advantage Tabby didn't. We didn't
Speaker 1: have money like the Roden's got money, because they had
Speaker 1: money too, maybe not as much as the Wagner's, but
Speaker 1: they still they still, you know, lived pretty damn comfortably.
Speaker 1: If they wanted to, you know, take Andye to court
Speaker 1: and all that, and Andie would have a world problem
Speaker 1: on her hands, especially since they had money too. And
Speaker 1: Hannah was the mom and here and Ohias, the mom
Speaker 1: has the right. And they weren't married, You're a sister,
Speaker 1: and George were married, which immediately changes the custody discussion
Speaker 1: from the start. So unlike with the two of you,
Speaker 1: Kenna and Jake were unmarried, so he legally had no rights.
Speaker 1: So that became an added trigger potentially right. And it
Speaker 1: seems that the Wagners knew that we talked last season
Speaker 1: about forged custody documents the Wagners had drawn up in
Speaker 1: order to get sole custody of Hannahme Rodin and Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner's young daughter, Agent Scheiderer discussed the genesis of these
Speaker 1: custody documents, also called declaration documents, in great detail at
Speaker 1: George Wagner's hearing last year. Here's an excerpt from that testimony.
Speaker 1: You seize the computer from the Wagner's Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Trut okay? And that computer was analyzed for evidence. Correct.
Speaker 1: During that review of the content of the computer, you
Speaker 1: discovered that there had been documents Googled searched for on
Speaker 1: April thirty, twenty sixteen. Correct, declaration documents correct, okay. And
Speaker 1: then do you also see that those documents were printed
Speaker 1: out of the computer on the same day. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the bottom corner of the pages it says April third,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteenth. Okay, So like computers sometimes do when you
Speaker 1: print something and it says what date you're prints act.
Speaker 1: Did you ultimately recover those documents, the actual physical documents, yes, okay.
Speaker 1: And it's your testimony that one of them was a
Speaker 1: declaration reportedly made were apparently made by Hannah May where
Speaker 1: it bore what was in tended to be her signature. Correct.
Speaker 1: Did you submit all of these documents to be examined
Speaker 1: by a handwriting expert within VCI, Yes, Okay. Did you
Speaker 1: find out if in fact that was her signature. We did,
Speaker 1: it was not her signature, okay. Additionally, you talked about
Speaker 1: the fact that they were dated at a prior time,
Speaker 1: and so I'm clear, are you saying that they were
Speaker 1: in fact backdated? Yes, that is backdated as if it
Speaker 1: were signed in twenty fourteen by hand and a correct. Okay.
Speaker 1: So they print out a piece of paper on April thirty,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. You see evidence of that in the computer
Speaker 1: that it is also printed out that same day. You
Speaker 1: later also recover the original documents with a raised stamp
Speaker 1: on it. Correct, and that piece of paper in existence
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, correct, So it could not have been signed
Speaker 1: on those days, correct, okay. Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa noted the
Speaker 1: unusual settlement on the Wagner's forged custody documents. This paper says,
Speaker 1: if Hannah is to meet her demise, then Sophia should
Speaker 1: go to Jake correct. Okay. But if Jake meets his demise,
Speaker 1: then his child goes to his mom correct, not to Hannah. Correct.
Speaker 1: Last season, we highlighted an ominous Facebook message that hannahme
Speaker 1: Rodin had written during her protracted custody battle with Jake.
Speaker 1: It was discovered on a laptop owned by the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: Agent Scheider spoke about that message and the warning she
Speaker 1: received from someone who was intimately familiar with the Wagner's
Speaker 1: nefarious ways. At the hearing, you talked about the fact
Speaker 1: that this relationship between Jake and Hannah was not going well,
Speaker 1: that he was bugging her to sign stuff giving him custom.
Speaker 1: Obviously they forged documents that if she were to die,
Speaker 1: Jake would get testody. Was there a specific communication that
Speaker 1: sticks out in your mind that Hannah may made to
Speaker 1: another person that the Wagoners became aware of. Yes, a
Speaker 1: Facebook message? Okay, Messenger message? Okay, so a messenger message?
Speaker 1: Then who was that message too, Patricia? But it would
Speaker 1: be Tabitha's mother, Okay, Tabitha George's wife. You said it
Speaker 1: was a private messenger, correct, Yes, And so if I'm
Speaker 1: understanding correctly, private messenger is not something that anyone else
Speaker 1: would be able to see except for the two people
Speaker 1: that are messaging each other. Correct. Are you aware whether
Speaker 1: or not the Wagoners became aware of that conversation? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: we're aware of it. And how do you know that
Speaker 1: there is a screenshot of this conversation found on the
Speaker 1: laptop that belonged to the Wagner family. Okay, the device
Speaker 1: was registered to Jake, but there's strong evidence that Angela
Speaker 1: seemed to be the primary user of that laptop. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us what were they discussing at the time
Speaker 1: that she made this statement. The theme of the conversation was, basically,
Speaker 1: Patricia was telling Hannah, you know, don't let what happened
Speaker 1: to Tabitha happen to you. You know, don't you keep
Speaker 1: fighting for your kid. Don't give up your kid, you know,
Speaker 1: basically saying, don't don't become another Tabitha. Okay, And what
Speaker 1: does Hannah say in a response to that? This is
Speaker 1: the copy of the body of their text their conversation,
Speaker 1: and her reply is, I won't sign papers. Ever, it
Speaker 1: won't happen. They will have to kill me first. So
Speaker 1: not only did was that Hannah Ma's sentiments at the
Speaker 1: time that she would not sign papers ever, that they
Speaker 1: would have to kill her first was her sentiments on
Speaker 1: December tenth, twenty fifteen. And you know for a fact
Speaker 1: that the Wagner saw it, in fact, the same day
Speaker 1: as she said that. Correct, Yes, okay, and jo Oba.
Speaker 1: Four months later, Anna and all of her family are dead. Correct.
Speaker 1: I have another question, John. After the Rodent family was murdered,
Speaker 1: Christina Howard and her family were panicked. Pretty much, a
Speaker 1: whole bloodline gets marched off over the custody of one kid.
Speaker 1: And you know, my sister is she's got a kid
Speaker 1: with them too. And you know, after we heard about it,
Speaker 1: we were like, oh shit, better up on security because
Speaker 1: we ain't We ain't about to get crossed out. But
Speaker 1: when the Wagoners were arrested in twenty eighteen, Tabby Howard's
Speaker 1: nightmare finally came to an end. Once they were arrested.
Speaker 1: He was in like a child protective services for a while,
Speaker 1: and after a few months she was finally granted full
Speaker 1: custody of her son. Following Jake Wagner's admission in court
Speaker 1: just weeks ago, Christina had to come to terms with
Speaker 1: her feelings about the one Wagner. She thought she could
Speaker 1: always trust grandmother, the accused, Frederica, I love, but she's
Speaker 1: very gullible. They probably told her some crazy stuff like
Speaker 1: all these people are after us, they're trying to frame
Speaker 1: us for these murders. Blah blah blah, well, of course,
Speaker 1: if I'm gollible, I'm gonna hide them, not saying she
Speaker 1: did or anything, but like and in that kind of situation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So what does the Wagner's sort did history mean? If Angela, Billy,
Speaker 1: and George decide to stand trial, they all maintained their
Speaker 1: please of not guilty, it may force Jake Wagner to
Speaker 1: go to court and sit in front of his mother, father,
Speaker 1: and brother and in front of a jury and spill
Speaker 1: as guts and a lot of things we haven't known
Speaker 1: in the last five years are going to be known.
Speaker 1: Then you know who went into what home, who died first,
Speaker 1: why they died. You've got to believe we are going
Speaker 1: to learn things we never knew before and hear things
Speaker 1: you would have never believed. And if the trials move forward,
Speaker 1: the stakes for Pike County prosecutors couldn't be higher. The
Speaker 1: case that the prosecution is building against the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: It's not a single story of ranch. It's a freaking mansion.
Speaker 1: And they're investing a lot of time, a lot of hours,
Speaker 1: a lot of capital and this thing, and they don't
Speaker 1: want to see it fail because if this thing fails,
Speaker 1: can you imagine what a nightmare this is. If one
Speaker 1: little thing goes wrong with it, the whole case can
Speaker 1: be destroyed. But on April twenty eight, twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: less than one week after Jake Wagner's plea dale took place,
Speaker 1: his brother George, appeared in a Pike County courtroom. Reporter
Speaker 1: Anjeanette Leady was on the scene. George just found out
Speaker 1: in the week prior that his brother had confessed and
Speaker 1: implicated his whole family. His attorney had been so steadfast
Speaker 1: in court documents and saying, you know, my guy didn't
Speaker 1: do this, He wasn't involved. Well, clearly now his brother
Speaker 1: was saying that's not the case. That George the fourth
Speaker 1: was very much involved. I think we were all wondering,
Speaker 1: what is this emotions hearing when of you, like, was
Speaker 1: George Wagner going to change his plea More on that
Speaker 1: next time. The Pikedon Massacre Returned to Pike County is
Speaker 1: executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing
Speaker 1: and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional producing
Speaker 1: by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker, Chris Graves, Tim Hamilton, and
Speaker 1: Haley Nilsen Engineering by Jason Freeman. The piked In Massacre
Speaker 1: Returned to Pike County is a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
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