WEBVTT - Do horses actually hate running? (Remastered) 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.960 Hey, what's up. It's Devin today, or actually rerunning one 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.720 of my favorite episodes, maybe the episode that birth no 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:25.360 such thing. This is an og It was in your 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.120 feeds a year ago, so most of you probably did 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:33.280 not hear it. So here it is, do Horses Hate Running? Remastered? 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.000 I'm Manny, I'm Noah, and this is Devin and this 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.080 is no such thing. The show where we settle our 0:00:39.159 --> 0:00:42.920 dumb arguments in yours by actually doing the research. On 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.680 today's episode, we set on an argument we've been having 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:47.240 for nearly ten years. 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.519 I think it's kind of insane to say that horses 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:52.560 don't like to run. 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:56.280 Most people that have a set perception about anything haven't 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.800 spent very much time observing with any sort of open curiosity. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.040 H So good timing. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.639 The snakes aren't out yet, Hi, se. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.600 No, there's no no such thing, no such thing, no 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:24.120 such thing, no such thing, no such thing. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.080 So I grew up in a suburb in New Jersey, 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.679 and like most suburbs in the Northeast, there's not much 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.520 to do. So we spent a lot of time going 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.760 back and forth to the mall. At one point, I 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:43.880 actually work at the mall, and to avoid a lot 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.000 of the traffic on the main roads, we would take 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.000 the back roads. And on these back roads there were 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:54.200 a ton of horse farms, so we'd often be driving 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.919 back and forth past horses, and I start to notice 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.160 every single time we would drive past these horse farms, 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.760 they were never running. I don't see, you know, up 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.160 to that point, especially, I've not seen a lot of 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.480 horses in my life, you know, not up close. But 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.560 we see all these pictures, all this what I'll call 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:22.239 propaganda as children of horses running, being majestic. And I 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.959 was like, how come every time when there are no 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.680 people around on this farm, the horses are just standing still, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:33.760 mostly eating, not really moving around much at all, not 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:38.600 even a trot, no gallops, no barely a gallop. They're 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.960 just standing there, right. And I'm like, if I were 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.760 to put a group, you know, and this is when 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.959 they're together, you know, the families together is rare. I 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.200 would see one horse alone and usually there's two or 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.639 three of them, and what do you call it? A pin? 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.919 I don't know what you call those things, Like, yeah, 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.720 I don't know the fence. Then this is how much 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.760 I know about horse, right, And I was like, if 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.440 I had that same area, and I put three dogs. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.760 At some point from all these trips, I would see 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:19.720 those dogs running, And to this day, I have never 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:26.480 seen horses run in person without humans telling them to 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:32.200 do it or forcing them to do it. So do it, okay. 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:39.000 So then I started to think, do horses even like running? Like, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:40.800 I don't think horses like to run, because if they 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.080 like to run, they would be running when humans weren't around. 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.240 I guess I never really said this out loud until 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:48.440 we started working together, because it's always been something that's 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.839 percolating in my mind. Yea, And you know, if we'd 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:55.600 get into our dumb arguments and have our dumb conversations. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.040 And I brought it up to both of you one 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.480 day and I was like, actually, I don't think horses 0:03:59.560 --> 0:03:59.920 like to run. 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:02.960 So now all of our listeners are in the exact 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:07.440 same position that no, right after you. But think about it, silent, 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:08.200 but think about it. 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:12.280 Think about it. When have you seen horses run right 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:15.560 in person? We're gonna get later. We will get to 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:22.880 the videos, the documentaries, the movies. Yeah, so called, I 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:27.800 got lots to say about that, But just when in 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.159 your life have you just seen a horse just going 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:35.600 for it, like sprinting, just like I'm running. Oh, I 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:35.960 like this. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.920 I can't say I have. I've also, you know, like you, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:40.720 I haven't really been around the horses. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:42.520 Yeah. 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.000 I guess it's tough for me to recall because I 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:46.680 haven't seen any horses really. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.320 So neither one of you have seen horses on a 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:56.120 farm running on their own. No, no, okay, I think 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:59.920 we could maybe end the podcast. Yeah, so I guess 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:04.240 maybe I should just say what, like to restate my 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.320 opinion is, I don't think horses like to run. I 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.000 think horses are good at running. I think they're majestic creatures. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:16.279 They're very strong, they're very powerful. They look beautiful running. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:19.680 But I don't think like in terms of like if 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.160 horses got to decide whether or not they would like 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.200 to run, I don't think most horses they would run 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.560 like running. This is just based on what I've seen, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.080 and you know, you know, everyone that I've talked to, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:35.400 I haven't talked to anyone who's said they've seen horses 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.040 run for fun. That being said, I don't know very 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:40.760 many horse people. I don't spend a lot of time 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.039 with a lot of horse people, but as a casual observer. Look, 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.000 that's why I bring up the dog example, right, because 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.560 even if something manny doesn't really fuck with dogs, Yeah, man, 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:51.560 he has seen a dog run. 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.120 I've seen them run all the time. Example is pretty powerful. 0:05:55.680 --> 0:06:01.640 Right, And it's like usually dogs running, no human interaction. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.280 You go to a dog park, all the humans, none 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.520 of the humans are moving, The dogs are going off. 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.600 Yeah, I mean the dogs they have, you know, really 0:06:09.680 --> 0:06:12.480 fast bursts of energy. I wonder if horses on their 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:13.039 own might do. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.560 That, you know, And we're just kinda like I have 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.960 not seen it, not once, but like, so I guess 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.280 I think, yeah, where do we all stand on this? 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:26.239 I think it's kind of insane to say that horses 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:31.800 don't like to run. I think, okay, initial prompt was 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:33.479 horses hate running, which is. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:37.800 That's a little strong. I am a little strong, but 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:39.800 sometimes you gotta get people's attention, you know. 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.200 Yeah. I think my initial, uh kind of reaction to 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:49.479 this is I would imagine that, like humans, some horses 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:51.400 might like running, some might not. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:52.719 I don't like running. 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.280 I'll do it for exercise, but there are some people 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.200 who do enjoy running, so I will. I think my 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.360 initial reaction would just to be that it's probably similar 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:08.040 to and even so that's still a very small portion 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.640 of what you do if you're a runner. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:10.800 Yeah, that's true. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:11.320 So it's like. 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.240 Thinking, like, you know, you you watch like a nature documentary, 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.280 and we'll talk about documentaries. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.160 More especially numaries, but I'm kind of saying that. 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.520 But my point is that you only see kind of 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.920 the extreme bits in those where you're not seeing most 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.600 Most of life and this goes for humans as well 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.640 as animals is pretty much doing nothing and then there's 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:39.600 moments of extreme activity happening. What I mean is like 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.320 you watch physical documentary and it's like, okay, you see 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.160 the the predator attacking. 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.560 Most of the time, these animals are just sitting around 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:47.120 drinking water. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.080 Yeah, So I kind of view that similarly to the 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.200 the running where it's like, yeah, we'll run for five minutes, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.000 you know, kind of get our little moves on, and 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.880 then yeah, we're just gonna chill out eat, Like why 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:04.280 would we especially on a farm in the back roads. Yeah, 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.240 there's not much going on, so yeah, we're just gonna chill. 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:06.520 Yeah. 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:08.760 I think what's interesting it around early in the morning, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.320 you know, before the cars are coming back. I think, 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:14.640 what's interesting about this question is that it is true 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.960 that growing up, we are kind of led to believe that, like, 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.720 horses are running all the time, all the time. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:33.559 I ride like the wind, the bull's eye. 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.080 Run, the horses run, the horses to ride. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:38.280 Horses run. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.400 Have you ever seen a video image of a horse 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:44.600 not running? Yeah? 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.240 Like, right now, I'm gonna type horse into Yeah, it's 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:53.040 the default, those into Google, And what are the images? Immediately? 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.640 The first horse is a horse bounting. 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.439 Right, And and it's kind of interesting because it's with 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.120 other animals. But I said, I'd say outside of like 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:03.920 a cheetah. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.679 Yeah, I was gonna see cheatah, you know cheetah because. 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.360 We love to talk about how fast they are. So yeah, 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:10.640 but those images bring going to see other animals, just like. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:12.240 You love to talk about love. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:13.040 Do we not? 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.360 Do we not talk about When I was in middle school, 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:18.480 I was talking a lot about how fast cheetahs were. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:25.360 Insane, But we are fed this horses run, run, run, run, 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:27.559 And I think part of it, part of it, I 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.839 think is innocent, and that horses are very good at running. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:36.400 There they're you know, someone say, built to run. But 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:40.440 I think part of it too, is that from humans 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.000 very first interactions with horses, we like to make them 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:49.480 do ship, whether that's pulling things, racing, racing, and in 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.040 order for us to feel better about making them do 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.920 that stuff, even just transit like yep, from one place 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.800 to the next. Right, that's a lot harder to do 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.920 if in you her mind you're thinking maybe this animal 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.120 actually doesn't like doing this. 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.079 So you asked this question earlier, have you ever seen 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.240 a horse running? And in person? We haven't, but there's 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.080 you know, countless footage. 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:26.680 Of this footage. So yeah, let's talk about the footage. 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.680 So what do you think is happening about the horses 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.079 that are running in the footage? 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.080 Okay? What type of footage be talking about here? 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.680 Because they're just being a field galloping. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:40.360 Usually where's let's think about this, right, beautiful majestic, the 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.640 sun sun setting. What is usually an angle we see 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.600 of these horses is it? Is it down below bird's 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:48.360 eye point of view? 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:48.640 Wow? 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.760 Okay, so what if we're we got a bird's eye 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.360 view of the horses, right, So usually when we get 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.480 bird's eye views of things, especially horses out in the wild, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:05.240 wearing something I like to call helicopter, right. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:08.199 Like you like to call them that. 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:18.079 Okay, let me ex this. Are helicopters quiet? Are those 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.480 quiet machines? Can a helicopter just pull up here real 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.800 quick and no one noticed that a helicopter's outside? No, 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:24.880 they're really loud. 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.520 So you're saying the horses are running because they're. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.679 Horses are easily spooked. That's like the everyone knows that. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.199 The second fact, yeah, the horses are You ever see 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:36.160 the horses out there? 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.800 Okay, I have been to a horse show before. Once again, 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:45.360 none of the horses doing anything, but besides when the 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.679 people are making them do. But you know there's some 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.840 horses they have the blinders on because they can't see 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:57.599 something to the side or they're lose their them mine. Okay, So, 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.000 and you gotta think about horses in a wild survival. 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.719 If something is coming, if a threat, a predator is 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.040 coming you, that's when you gotta run. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:13.280 Go that. 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:15.600 Every time they're running, it's only because. 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:21.000 Of what you're asking me. The question was about nature documentaries, right, 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.520 So what I'm saying is that in these documentaries, most 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.520 of what you're seeing is from a bird's eye point 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.880 of view. A helicopter very noisy, and the horses are 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.920 running because they're running away from the damn helicopter. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:35.800 But if you're at some other perch, like on a 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:37.319 mountain top. 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.959 Oh okay, look, I'll also can side that horses run 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:41.240 to get from one place to another. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:42.600 Yeah they must. 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.640 Yeah, it's it's like, hey, we got to go over 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.960 there and get some water, let's run. That don't mean 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:49.319 they enjoy doing it. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.800 You know, why wouldn't they walk to the water. 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:57.679 Because it takes longer. And let's just put this out 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.640 there in terms of I don't know of either one 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.199 of you have actually consumed anything in regards to nature documentaries, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.800 but they're all full of shit. Yeah that I do all. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:09.560 That's kind of my point before all of nature documentary. 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.480 It's not even just in regards to horses, regards to 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.120 all animals. They fake a lot of stuff in nature documentaries. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.439 The sound is all made up. Yeah, the I was 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.640 listening to a story the other day, a podcast story. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.520 I didn't read it in the book, but uh, thank you. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:25.199 What are you? 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.880 What are those things called lemons? Lemon lemmings? Yeah you 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.720 know that that. Yeah, they don't actually do that, that's 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:37.559 made up. So what so like there's this famous documentary 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.360 of like a bunch of lemmings, like one the ideas 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.440 that one runs and jumps off a cliff, and they're 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.199 all so stupid. They're just like, oh, you did it, 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:46.800 I'm gonna do it. Hm, So that that's become like 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:47.280 a saying. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.600 Now, one of these is a nasty little rodent called 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:55.320 the lemmings. There's an actual living legend or it said 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.480 of this tiny animal that it commits mass suicide by 0:13:58.559 --> 0:13:59.880 rushing into the sea and droll. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.800 Most people think it was popularised by this Disney documentary 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:09.360 from the fifties, and this Canadian journalist like looked into 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.880 it and he found that they ligally like fake the 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.360 whole thing. The these lemmings were like brought in from 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.320 a part of Canada where like they're not even native 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:23.760 to and the filmmakers were like literally pushing them off 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:24.360 the cliff. 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.760 They reached the final precipice, this is the last chance 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:38.440 to turn back overre they go casting themselves bodily out 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:38.960 into space. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.360 But it's all made up, Okay, physically pushing them off 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.680 the cliff or like scaring them to jump. 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:49.160 I don't know, you know, they're forcing them off the cliff, 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.560 forcing them off the cliff insane. You know, this didn't 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.560 come from nowhere. Lemmings do dissipate from an area, right, 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:57.960 Like they go to an area, they eat up all 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.120 the food and then they're like, all right, we got 0:14:59.200 --> 0:14:59.680 to get out of here. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:00.320 Leave. 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.240 So the thinking is that like people saw this happening, 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.080 and sometimes they do all like get all you know, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:08.840 lined up on the cliff when they're doing this, But 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.280 they're not like meaning suicide. 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:11.640 They're not trying to fall off the Yeah. 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.480 Yeah, they're just trying to move on something. They're trying 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.960 to just leave the area. They're not like it's time 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:17.840 to die. Well, I'm gonna say if I can find. 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.040 It, we'll put that in the show notes. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:19.400 Yeah. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.880 Knowing how set up in kind of fake those documentaries are, 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.840 it wouldn't surprise me if in this footage of horses 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.120 running in the wild that they did something to make 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:35.120 the first before they take I don't know if it's 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:40.320 a helicopter scaring them, but it wouldn't surprise me if 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.000 they did something. I also think something we're kind of 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:49.840 ascribing human conceptions of liking and I don't know how 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.800 to really talk about animals and the pleasure they perceive like, yeah, 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.800 do any animals do anything purely because they like it? 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.800 Even even we talked about the dogs running. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.120 Outside, I think I think I think he loves running. 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:06.800 But I mean, is it or is it just like 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.520 their bodies saying like you need to exercise and you're 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:10.920 you have all this energy to use? 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.280 I think yeah, but I think he enjoys the act 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.120 of running. The only thing I would con see is 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.840 to Manny's point, I think horses are more similar to 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:23.440 humans than be getting credit for. I think they have 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.240 different personalities. Some of those motherfuckers might like to run. 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.720 And I think, you know, did we talk about the horses. 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.960 We haven't even brought up the racetrack stuff because I 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.520 know that's we all can agree that's bad. Well, we 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:39.680 know they're good at running. They're good at running. 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:40.680 They're being controlled and. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.400 They're bread to run anything like they're being Their whole 0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:47.920 life is being reinforced to run. So I think that 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.800 is a different type of horse than a horse in 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.840 a while, because it's like, yeah, literally, your existence its 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:59.000 dependent on running like racehorses. Yeah, I don't think you 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:00.440 really have a choice on whether you like it. 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:01.080 You just do it. 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.480 I think horses in the wild are There's probably some 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:09.600 lazy horses. There's probably some horses who love to run 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:11.800 and want to run. And I think if we had 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.520 to like give horses a survey, I think more horses 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.280 would not like running versus horses that enjoy running. 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.560 That's interesting. So why why do you say that? 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.200 Because I've never seen a horse front. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.679 All right, So how would we try to get an 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.560 answer for this? Then that's a good question. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:31.120 I don't think there's a lot of I think there's 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.119 a lot of people who are invested in this the 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:35.080 truth not getting out. 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:37.520 It goes back to the documentaries. Yeah, I guess a 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.200 good question is why do you think, uh, it's it's 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:46.080 been important for humankind to to beat into us that 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:47.560 horses enjoy running. 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.960 To my earlier point, yeah, everything we do with horses 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.160 involves them moving. This is the first domino if the truth, 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.960 If the truth comes out that these horses are not 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.359 really down for that and you are forced them to 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.760 do that, I think people have to feel very differently 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.439 about the way that we interact with horses day to day. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.199 So I think it's a lot easier to just say, hey, 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:08.880 they're good at. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:09.440 This, They like it. 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:13.120 They like when my daughter Susie is riding it every 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.399 Tuesday for two hours and jumping over for stuff, because 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.320 that's what they that's what they would do in a while. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.359 They just like doing that. So like we're giving her 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.920 the opportunity to do that. And I'm like, I don't 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:26.800 think horses. I think if you let that horse be 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:30.480 left alone, then have a little Susie riding it, it 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.480 would not be running and jumping it and it will 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.560 be standing there eating some food. Run when it needs to, 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.720 but otherwise leave me alone, Susie. I don't want to 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:39.639 just be out here running. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.680 So we tell ourselves horses enjoy running to rationalize what 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:44.560 we do to them. 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:49.919 Yes, we're saying absolutely, wow, absolutely. 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.359 How can we go about trying to get to the 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:52.879 bottom of this? 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.240 We got to find some people who are not in 0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:01.560 the horse industrial complex. After the break, we talked to 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.600 someone who left the horse industrial complex and take a 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.200 journey that made us reevaluate our entire relationship to animals. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:09.399 Uh. 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.320 Hello, hi, So we got a horse walking out to us. 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.960 So we got some interesting responses to last week's episode 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.880 about does religion make you happier? So we heard from 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:27.920 Cody from Connecticut, who actually has a correction to you 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.159 issue to Manny. Manny said that his confirmation saint was 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.639 Saint Andrew because he's the saint of lost things. But 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:40.520 in reality the saint of lost things is Saint Anthony. 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:46.480 So be on the lookout for Manny's notes apology forgetting 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.880 that one incorrect. And then we heard from Ben and Omaha, 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:52.600 who had a possible alternative to religion. 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.080 A lot of people in Europe have mentioned that European 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.640 soccer has replaced your religion for them, well at least 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.879 Christian and for them, I got football has become religion 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:04.919 for them, and I mean it makes sense. For English 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:08.240 soccer fans, they sting for two hours. They congregate for 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.480 two hours every week together. Some people have season tickets 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.720 for the generational so they've known the people who are 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.120 sitting next to them at the seat. So yeah, if 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:19.360 you wanted to look at something. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:24.840 That was non giving thanks to some foreign human that 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:29.119 may or may not exist, it seems like football flash 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.960 soccer is one of those venues. 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:45.800 All right, fellas, we're back in this studio, so we've 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.160 had this question for a while, and I think sort 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.200 of a tough thing with this question is finding the 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.480 right person to talk to, because, as we've discussed in 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.560 Part one, in the eight hundred previous conversations we've had 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:03.200 about this topic, there's a lot of biases, involves. 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:03.359 A lot. 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.400 On this issue. I don't you know, I don't really 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:12.000 trust anybody on it, but I think I can't even 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:14.800 trust your own eyes. Can't trust well, I can't trust 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:19.920 my own eyes, which is why we're here. Sure, but 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.840 I think I found the perfect person for this, okay, 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:31.600 because she's someone who has experience on both sides of defense. 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:36.680 Let's say, my name is Randhurst. 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.800 I've got a twenty year background as a professional horsewoman, 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.320 relatively successful as both a horse trainer and a farrier. 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:46.680 I had to look up what the hell that is 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.760 r F A R R I E R. This shows 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:53.960 how little wind aout horses as someone who like trims 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.920 horse who's okay, like professionally so you know she's a trainer, 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.760 She rode horses, she spent twenty years of horses. Let's 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:03.399 just say go for this. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:04.840 And what does she do now? 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.720 She left the she actually left the industry entirely. Wow, okay, 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:12.680 why did she leave? Well, we're going to get to. 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:18.399