WEBVTT - Ep. 115: The Judas Hog 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:18.320 severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:25.959 can't predict anything. Okay, we're gonna be diving way deep 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:32.360 into into wild pigs um and we get tons of 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:34.320 questions about wild pigs, and I'm gonna give like sort 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.639 of the ends of the you know, I'm gonna give 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.040 two ends in the middle and sort of the sorts 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:43.640 of questions we get about wild pigs. A question about 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.920 wild pigs might be where someone would right in and 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.199 send a link to an article, and it would be 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.840 how somewhere somewhere wild pigs have turned up and they 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:58.920 are causing their wreaking ecological havoc and what does one 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:00.720 make of That'd be like a type of thing people 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.480 always winding about wild pigs. A lot of people might 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:05.479 be like, hey, what's up? Or wild pigs good to eat? 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:07.560 Can you get sick from them? Or what? That's another 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:09.360 that's the middle part that people want to hear about 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.480 wild pigs. And another common question we get about wild 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.200 pigs would be if wild pigs are so bad and 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.679 they're everywhere and they're gonna kill everyone and destroy the 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:22.880 whole universe. And everyone's overrun with wild pigs. How come 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:24.480 no one will let me go hunt wild pigs on 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.280 their property? Like, wouldn't you think that if pigs are 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:32.680 that bad, it wouldn't be so bad to have a 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.160 stranger on your land hunting. But it seems that they're 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.600 not quite that bad. So that's another question. And who's 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:43.639 gonna walk us through all of this? Not your honest 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.320 it will be in part the portions that he's comfortable 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.440 with would be our guest, Parker Hall. Now, Parker Hall, 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.360 h can two things and you can do it. However, 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.000 three things you can do whatever or do you want? Um? 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.520 What do you do at work? Who do you work for? 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.680 And then I would like to get a little bit 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:09.160 into how did that happen? Okay, what do I do 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:13.440 at work? I'm a professional email doer and meeting goer. 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:22.000 To get out I know, I work for the U. 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:26.560 S Department of Agriculture APHIST Wildlife Services UM. So our 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:31.280 mission is to provide federal leadership with human wildlife conflict. 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.600 So that can range from ferrell swine or wild pigs. 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:37.760 I have to call them ferrell swine, UM call him. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.960 That's what they told me. Wild pigs, Ferrell swine, hogs, whatever. UM. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:47.000 It can range from that to protecting airports from collisions 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.440 with birds, to UH beaver control in the Deep South, 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:54.560 flooding roads and bridges, to coyote and predator control in 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:56.720 the West. So it really depends on where you are 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.200 in the in in the country is as to what 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.639 that the different states do. UM. So Wildlife Services is 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.520 non regulatory. That means we don't make any rules, UM, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.440 which is kind of a good good position to be in. 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.080 So anywhere we are, we're there by by invitation. We're 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:17.799 oftentimes invited to help whatever land management agency bit, a 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:22.600 state agency, UM, another federal agency on evasive species, and 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.160 Farrell swine is one that that UH that we deal 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.040 with all over the country. So two thousand and fourteen 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.880 there was an initiative and APHIST initiative that provided some 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:36.960 funding set up a national program. Said all right, there's 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.520 enough damage being going on with Farrell swine, we're getting on, 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.839 We're getting enough people that are having some trouble with them, 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.120 be at the agg industry, being at landowners, be at 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.680 the natural resources people, that we need to do something 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.480 about it. So that's kind of how UH this program 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.520 got got set up. So um, now that's that's too right. 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.720 What's the third one? How I got here? How you 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.800 got here? Just as a person to be here? But 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.400 I'm already we we put that on hold for a minute, sure, 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:11.640 because I already got a problem. All right, It okay. 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:19.279 Wild pigs were introduced here in the by the Spanish. Right, 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.400 so they took off across the ocean. Needed something to eat, right, 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.320 guys were going out, Uh, we don't know where we're 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:28.280 going across the ocean. It's far. We better bring something 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.280 to eat. So they float, float, float, float float. They 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.039 hit some land to go, oh man, that was good. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.400 We're still alive. Hey, we're still going. We don't know 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.520 where we are. Let's put some pigs on because when 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.960 we come back, we're gonna be hungry again. And so 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:45.360 those repetitive introductions from those explorers all through the South 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.000 and the Islands, going all the way down through you know, 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:50.800 down to the South America and lesser antillities and the 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:54.240 Caribbean all through there. You know, those repetitive introductions finally 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:58.080 finally took hold. Native Americans figured out that hey, this 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.440 is better than eating some of the stuff we're eating 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.960 right now. So they fostered that and and those those 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:07.479 pigs grew and they kept them around and they established population. 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.520 So since the fifteen hundreds, they've been all up and down. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:17.920 So what happened during those hundreds of years when it 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.920 didn't like there was a shift, right, because we had 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:23.919 hundreds of years of it just being that there's some 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:25.760 that there's wild pigs around, there, wild pigs around and 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.560 then all of a sudden in my lifetime in it's like, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:40.000 holy shit, wild pigs, Like like what what was that? So? Um, 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.160 is it perception or is it reality? Or is it 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.839 it's reality. So if you look at a natural expansion 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.640 of any population, be it be it wild pigs or 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.279 or anything, it's kind of like a balloon blowing up, right, 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.800 you're blowing the balloon. It gets bigger, bigger, bigger, and 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.160 the population spreads. Well, that's not been the case of 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.240 feral pigs. I mean you guys from Michigan, right, there's 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:03.880 feral pigs in Michigan. They didn't get there from Florida 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.479 by chance. They got there in the back of pickup truck. Um, 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:14.359 So it became you know, uh, I grew up in Georgia, 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.680 hunting hogs. It was fun. It's a it's a cultural 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.200 thing in the Deep South. A lot of people do it, 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.200 and you know, but it's been maintained, particularly in the 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:29.480 Deep South. Uh, Texas, California. Oh yeah, my whole family, 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.200 and they still do. Um, of course they do. Um. 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:40.359 But I think it got um cool or whatever for 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.719 lack of a better term, cool too, Uh hunt pigs 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:49.039 by television shows. It got put on TV, and people 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.960 think that killing the two hundred pound hog is awesome. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.840 They're very few laws regulating hogs. Um. You know, it 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:59.800 differs by state, but they're all they're all a little 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:04.320 bit confusing. Um. You know, it's easy to catch pigs, uh. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.240 As one of my good friends says, it's it takes 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.479 a very very little energy to put pigs in the 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.360 back of a truck and move them, but it takes 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.080 tremendous energy to get them back from the wild and 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:17.520 put them back into that pickup truck. And that's a fact. So, UM, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:19.280 I think there's a there's a there's probably a lot 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.000 of ways for people to begin to understand that. And 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.320 if you're not familiar with wild pigs, would be just 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.120 the But you know what, we often called bucket biology 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.520 with fisheries, where you can have you can trace back 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.920 to sort of like a single inner doctory effort of 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:38.400 a fish species into some lake and river system, and 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.720 then pretty soon it becomes literally impossible to undo, like 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:50.480 literally impossible to undo the damage. Correct. Yeah, So with 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.720 the pigs, I remember, well, you know, but but you're 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.880 assigned to a specific like does your expertise extend beyond 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.720 where you're Oh, sure, yeah, we we do. We do 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.680 a lot of different different things in the state, in 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.480 the two states, because that would I want to ask 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.520 about was I remember in Michigan It wasn't that long ago. 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.560 Michigan was putting up some trying to create some legislation 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:18.840 around Obviously, you can't block people from transporting pigs because 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.680 it's all the same species, right, Sue scraffa is the 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.040 same thing you buy in a grocery store. Is it's 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:27.680 all the same species. But they were trying to put 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.400 some language around what types of pigs could be moved 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.080 into the state. Can you explain that a little bit 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.360 when when you talk about that people are moving pigs, right, 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:41.400 They're not moving barnyard varieties of pigs are well they're doing, 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.880 they're doing all all of the above. Um, like you mentioned, 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.400 it's all the same species. They can all interbreed. So. UM. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.800 Spanish pigs like we talked about before, are the ones 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.320 that were introduced in the fifteen hundreds in the South. Um, 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.960 those have there's been introductions from the Eurasian wild wild bore, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.080 big Harry wooly ones that everybody thinks about, you know 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.520 that that came over from Europe and those were introduced 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.760 into New Hampshire Vermont area and in some in in 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.920 California moved around. Um, people like them for sport. I 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:17.240 know the New Hampshire Vermont ones were for brought in 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.720 for hunting purposes, right right, But it's just hard to 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.560 hard to contain them. Yeah, yeah, it's hard to contain them. 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:26.120 And you know there's there's been sales. Hey you have 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.000 some of those. You know, a guy comes in and goes, 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.240 what's it cost, you know, sell me some of those. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.640 Well nobody cares. He loads them up ears on her 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.160 bucks or whatever it is, and and and moves them 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.440 to Idaho. In terms of blue you know, they're they're 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.720 incredibly hardy, they're incredibly fucooned. You know, a hundred and 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.280 fifteen days or so. Um, they have a litter. Uh, 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.400 go go a few weeks, get pregnant again. You know, 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.360 they can have a couple of litters a year. So, um, 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.160 they're super hardy. You know, they're they're they're the ultimate 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:58.960 invasive species. Compare that to a deer who puts off 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:04.839 between you know, yeah, yeah, no, I want I want 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.560 to get back into the into the long term story. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.480 But first I want to ask that this is true. 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.200 People like to say they like to put this timeline around. 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.200 If you take a domestic like a domesticated domestic variety pig, 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.520 and you turn it out, that the minute you turn 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.480 it out, all of a sudden, it girls big, gigantic 0:10:23.520 --> 0:10:26.880 tossing gets a wooly coat. You know that that's not 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.440 It depends on the species, not the species, but the 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:33.120 uh I don't know if it's a subspecies or whatever. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:35.360 You know, a pink pig that's that's grown for in 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.439 a in a pig parlor is a little different than 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.000 you know, some of these heritage pigs or whatever. So 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:44.400 there's a bunch of different flavors, if you will. But um, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.440 if turned loose over time, they do revert back pretty quick. 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:51.319 It's not overnight. You know, we a lot of times 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.240 when when hogs get loose, Um, we'll get reports there's 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.280 some there's some feral swine over there, and they get 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.000 hungry and go back to the feed bucket in two days. Uh, 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.880 all of those in between, you know, sometimes they go 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.360 off and if they have a litter, then then those 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:10.000 pigs are generally pretty wary. Um, they're dealing with predators, 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:14.000 dealing with those first wild born generation. Yeah, that's right. Now. 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.480 You take a farrellhawk and put him in the pen, 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.760 and it doesn't take long for them to tame right down. Yeah. 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:23.520 I mean, you know, in a couple of weeks, you 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.280 start shaking the food bucket, you know, it starts approaching 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:28.520 a little bit, and over time they'll tame right down 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.760 as well. So you can you can read domesticate them, 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.200 you can. Yeah, all right now, I'm ready to go 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.080 back and do what we're gonna do A minute ago 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.600 is uh you kind of alluded to it. Now, So 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.559 you grew up hunting pigs? I did. Yeah, I grew 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.280 up hunting and fishing. My dad was U. S. T. 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.600 A Aphist wildlife services employee for his career yeah, so 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.200 you grew up that's how it's kind of wondering. So 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:52.720 you grew up kind of knowing that this is the 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:56.679 thing a person could do. Yeah, of course, yeah, I did, um, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.839 but but I didn't have the aspirations to be a 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.360 state director. I remember thinking as I was going through school. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.600 I graduated from the University of Georgia Bareley. Um, I 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.800 think I had a stellar two point two or three 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:15.199 uh mostly hog hunting at night and crappie fishing. But 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.720 I did get a I did get a degree in 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.199 in UH in wildlife. So UM. I remember thinking, if 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.160 I can ever make about thirty five or forty thousand 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.760 dollars a year trapping beavers, I will have reached the pinnacle. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.600 So I started off as a beaver trapper in Alabama 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.000 and I went through, um several years of that, and 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.880 I didn't just do a private nuisance. I was working 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.520 as a as a as a specialist for U s 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:44.720 d A. Yeah, so a entry level and and that 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.439 went on for several years, and I got into doing 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.840 some invasive species work. When I was I was down 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.719 in the US Virgin Islands doing work down there, and 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.840 met my wife down there, and how are you catching 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.720 the beavers? And and when I was now con embarrassing 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.680 their foothold, So the whole game and the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.120 I know, I know those handcock wife treats you guys 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.160 were you guys were getting after him for real? Yeah 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:14.240 that's yeah, that's dudes from Michigan use those. Yeah, never touched. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.040 So yeah, I did some work in the in in 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.600 the islands, and then um uh I went to Florida. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.200 Didn't kind of work in the islands offshore eradication kind 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:30.959 of stuff, and we did uh rat eradications, goat eradications 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:36.280 to protect threatening dangerous species small offshore islands. It's really neat. Actually, 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.000 when you remove um, a species like a rat or 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.760 a goat, what the island does? You know? The smaller islands, man, 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:45.640 they they blew like a flower you right back, you 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.920 know when you remove those invasives. Did you ever use 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:50.440 the Judas strategy? Yes, and I still do. Can you 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.400 explain that? Yeah, So if you remember your your your 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.760 Bible stories, Judas was the one who betrayed Jesus and 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.679 and so that's where the term Judas animal comes from. 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.679 So you take that animal capture. So in Ferrell swine 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.400 will take one and put a radio transmitter on on 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.800 its necker in its ear um, capture it, turn it 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:12.440 back loose, and it'll run back to the other you know, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.439 the sounders which call a group of hawks. It'll go 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.000 back to a sounder or um, you know, other other 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:19.960 pigs and it all lleg you to those. So it's 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:25.360 real effective. It's really really effective, particularly in low densities. Yeah, 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.800 you know where we are right now. Yeah, yeah, it 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.520 does good. Yeah, we use it a lot. So you 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.400 you studied up on wildlife, wanted doing beaver work, and 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.600 then your career kind of took off, it did, and 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:43.120 then one day, um, someone springs on you that your 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:48.040 jurisdiction is going to be this is so, this is 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.920 how I was a state I was a district supervisor 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:57.520 in in South Florida and doing evasive species. I really python. Yeah, 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.520 we did work on the burnme's python a little bit. Yeah, 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.240 you hit all the big news story animals. Yeah, they're um, 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:06.680 you know, they're they're difficult. That's a difficult problem. The snakes, 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:10.160 is it. Yeah? Do you think that they'll that there 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.240 will ever be a solution. There's just too hard to 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.280 protect you know. Uh, they sent a man to the moon, 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.960 so I don't know, but they you know, the thing 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.880 about the invasive reptiles is, let's face it, they're not 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.360 gonna go past the freeze line for the most part. 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.760 So you know, they're they're confined to those habitats in 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.760 those areas that that are akinada to how they evolved. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.080 You know that. So we won't some day be talking 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.880 about Burmese pythons in Michigan like we're talking about so, 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.440 I don't think so until wintertime. I've been in Michigan 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.800 in the wintertime and pythons won't do too well. Yeah, 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.960 So South Florida and what other You probably worked on 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.440 pigs in South Florida. I did. We did a lot 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.520 of pig working Florida. Did iguanas, yeah, sure did. In 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.040 Florida I did. We did some more rat eradications actually 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:01.680 to protect next nesting Uh shoreboards. UM, predator control on 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:05.320 beaches for for sea turtles was was a big one. Um. 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.200 What's something that gets after sea turtle legs? Man? Everything 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.760 likes an egg, right, U. Raccoons are bad Farrell swine 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:16.880 or or terrible on them. There's places where Farrell swine 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.760 are on on the beach, saltwater beach. There are guys 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.120 who their job is to stay on the beach all 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.560 night long to make sure farrell swine don't come out 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.320 there and dig up sea turtle nests. And they're seeing something. 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.640 Oh man, they're doing they're doing effective control and they're 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:37.280 saving thousands and thousands and thousands of sea turtles. I 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.400 mean one nest is wrecked by a hog. And we've 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.840 been on beaches down in in South America. We've been 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:44.720 on beaches where all the turtle eggs have been dug 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:53.240 up by jaguars. Everything looks a turtle legg ghost, crabs, raccoons, armadillas, possums, foxes. 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.920 So you'll you'll select a you guys would select a 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.840 beach and just be like hands off. No. Remember now, 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.280 remember we're um, we're non regulatory. So we're there by 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:08.840 the invitation of what ever entity is responsible for that 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.840 that's right, that's right, whatever entity has jurisdiction over that 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.160 beach asks us to do that work. I understand. Yeah, 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.360 So it's always coming from it's a it's a it's 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.160 a local ask, and you guys provide the expertise to 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:27.160 to execute what they're hoping to correct accomplish. So from 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:31.360 South Florida, then what happens to you? So from South Florida, UM, 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.880 a position came open as a state director and New 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:39.000 Hampshire and Vermont. Now, like I said, I grew up 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.280 in Georgia. I've never been north of Tennessee hardly. Um. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.240 I was in South Florida and that position came open, 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.000 and I talked to my wife about and said, here's 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.879 an opportunity, you know. Uh so we said, yeah, that 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.320 that'll be fine. She's from Missouri and I'll get to 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:59.560 that in a man and you can deduce. But went 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.720 up to UM, got selected for that position and had 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.840 a wonderful experience in New Hampshire Vermont UM working on 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:13.160 all all sorts of different creat A lot of black 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:17.480 bear stuff was going up. Non natives, right, a lot 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.639 of a lot of natives there. Yeah, yeah, did some 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:24.240 moose work. You know, it's it was uh for for Georgia. Boy, 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.000 it was a really neat experience. And then the black 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:29.800 bears are getting trouble with orchards and oh yeah, the 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.600 whole thing ride down in the you know, it's a 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.720 it's a big tourist economy in the summertime, it's gorgeous 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.679 in New Hampshire and Vermont and uh, you know the 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.639 black bears down there, falling tourist arounding doughnuts and you 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.520 know the whole You guys do a lot of relocations. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:48.880 a lot of relocations there. Yeah, okay, yeah. What did 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.960 you get involved with any fish anywhere? No? No, not 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.920 a fish guy. There's other than are the wildlife services 0:18:55.920 --> 0:19:01.240 people who mess with fish. There are wildlife services people that, um, yes, 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.520 that do invasive fish work. I think there's one state 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.320 out west that does. I'm not quite sure, but as 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.119 a general rule, we don't do That's that's left to 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.600 the fisheries. Bottle just fish are a whole different thing, 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:16.080 you know, under the water, and those guys can do 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.280 math good. Yeah, yeah, the fisheries. Gyah. What was the 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:24.720 common moose conflict? The common moose conflict was, uh, the 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.320 moose walking through where they you know, they make the 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.000 maple syrup and those guys have great big taps right 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.000 when these tubes coming way down to their tap house. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.639 Sometimes they have thousands these tubes coming on and the 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.640 moose just walk right through, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.480 and they're like, you know, it's the middle of the 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.600 middle of SAPs running and those guys are freaking out. Man, 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.600 all their taps just got yanked off. So um, you 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.000 know it was interesting, particularly for me. It doesn't know 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.440 anything about moose, you know, so it was educational experience. Yeah, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.200 I can imagine. It was a good time. So then 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.240 from there, from there, uh, the Missouri State Director Missouri 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:08.600 Iowa state director position um came available and my wife said, 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:13.640 guess what, big boy, I like the Royals, So yeah, 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.679 we I put in for that position. And you know, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.520 I think it was a good move for me and 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:21.639 as much that uh, I was not from the northeast. 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.480 But it was a great experience. And but to get 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:28.240 to uh sometimes a little bit more familiar with different 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:32.480 but a little more familiar. Sure. Sure. And so you 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.800 as the state state coordinary, state director, state director, state 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:43.840 director everything again here everything falls under your purview, so 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:48.640 to speak. But you guys are particularly focused. They're paying 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.639 a lot of attention on wild pigs or is that 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.760 just a small part of the It's just it's it's 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.320 more than a small part. In Missouri. So we have 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:02.919 what's called the Missouri Aero Swine Partnership and that is 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:08.399 eleven different land management agencies who were committed to UM 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.119 suppressing or eliminating ferrell swine from from the state of Missouri. 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.919 So it's it's a it's a pretty good chunk of 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:19.480 our of our program. UM we do UH Iowa does 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.440 a lot of work at um UH dairy farms for 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:29.359 starling's invasive like like those UH starlings, pigeons, sparrows, those things, 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.520 you know, the milk and you know, the whole the 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:34.520 whole deal. Airport stuff. If a deer runs out on 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.200 the airport and you know at three in the morning 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.520 and the planes trying to land, you know, we have 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:43.479 we have people there to help assister move that. You know. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:50.400 UM a lot of airport working in Missouri. UM Avian influenza, 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:54.640 so a disease component UM of our program sampling for 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.560 different diseases, which goes hand in hand with the ferrell 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.320 swine stuff. UM stamp on there. So a little bit 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.920 of everything. Now, UM the Missouri Department of Conservation UM 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.560 has has pretty much driven this this program. So we're 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:12.240 doing feral swine work by you know, their invitation in 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.800 their direction. Now you mentioned suppression or eradication. Doesn't that 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.080 cause a little mission confusion? Can't you just pick one? Yeah, 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:24.000 well we use the word elimination, you know, so there's 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.879 no mission confusion. No, there's no mission confusion. Lay the 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:34.000 um lay the wild pig situation. Like, give me a 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.400 little bit of history on the wild pig situation here 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.520 in Missouri. Yeah, because it's different than Florida, right because 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:44.360 in Florida they've been underground for centuries? Is it too 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:46.199 early in the timing might be off, but I'd like 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:48.760 to definitely know at some point if it's legal to 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:53.760 hunt pigs in the state, and I want timing is off, 0:22:54.080 --> 0:23:00.399 but you can ask should have waited? So you weren't 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.680 you weren't detecting the flow. I was gone. It's not 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:07.240 very clearly defined. Has it my flow? Yeah, it's a 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:09.480 little it's a little herky jerky. I don't see why 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:13.840 we can't get into that right now. It's yeah, so 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.800 it's yeah, it's completely legal to hunt ferrell swine in Missouri. 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:21.880 Where it is illegal to hunt ferrell swine is on 0:23:23.200 --> 0:23:27.119 the Missouri Department of Conservation lands. It's it's illegal on 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.879 uh Fort Leonard Wood. It's illegal on Army Corps of 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:35.120 Engineers UM land, but on private land. UM. Right now 0:23:35.119 --> 0:23:37.520 on the Mark Twain National Forest, it's legal to hunt 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:43.520 ferrell swine. What is the the obvious question comes up, Uh, 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:48.640 why if you want to get rid of them? Yeah, so, UM, 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.440 let's go back to the first part of of when 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:55.720 we started talking. In in Georgia when I grew up, 0:23:56.400 --> 0:24:01.440 there's no season, there's no limit, there's really no restriction 0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:05.080 on how you can hunt them with what you can use. 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:10.399 You can use guns, bows, bazookas, whatever, and has been 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:14.520 that way and they only grow. So hunting does not 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:19.960 work to eliminate. We use hunting as a as a 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:24.720 tool to manage our our native species. UM not eliminate 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:28.359 or that's that's what that's why we have UM limits 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:32.640 and particularly uh if you can or can't shoot female 0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:36.080 of any of any animal, because that that you know, 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:40.680 the result of removal of those is population control. And 0:24:40.760 --> 0:24:46.240 so that's something that UM Missouri Department of Conservations say, Look, 0:24:46.280 --> 0:24:48.600 we're not going to reinvent the wheel. I mean, these 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.400 guys all over the South has chased them for millennia 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:55.239 and it's the stronghold of feral swine. They're there. Like 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:58.680 recreational hunting because of the because of like the fecundity 0:24:58.760 --> 0:25:03.440 and all these other factis recreational hunting, even when it's unrestricted, 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:07.679 isn't doesn't do it right. Right. So you know, a 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.240 recreational hunter goes out and he has a good time 0:25:10.280 --> 0:25:13.200 and and he he harvests a hog, and he comes 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:16.040 back and they clean it up and they have a meal. 0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:20.440 But it did absolutely nothing for the population. You know, Um, 0:25:21.800 --> 0:25:25.040 it's fun, it's great, it's good recreation, but it's an exotic, 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:28.800 invasive species that should be removed if they're competing with 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:33.240 our natives. Yeah, so the thinking so extend that out 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:39.800 and and uh explain the thinking on on restricting hunting. Well, 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:44.359 I don't know that it's a I mean, it doesn't work. 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:50.240 It's been proven that hunting does not eliminate a species 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:56.520 of of any species. Um, recreational sport hunting doesn't. Um, 0:25:56.640 --> 0:26:01.240 So you know, I don't know that. Go ah, Brandon Butler. 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:05.440 Brandon Butler wants the button. Another big issue is creating 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.720 the demand. So if there's a demand for Farrell hogs, 0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:11.840 then there's going to be a desired supply, and by 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:16.600 eliminating the opportunity to hunt them. You're hopefully eliminating that instead. Right, 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:21.480 So if the Department of Conservation, you know, even though 0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:23.960 they're they're setting these traps up, that's another problem. They're 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:26.240 setting up these traps, putting a lot of man hours 0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:28.400 into it. Parker and his teams doing the same thing. 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:32.320 They work really hard to train these sounders to come 0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:34.040 to these traps so they can catch a mass of 0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.520 these pigs at one time. People will find those traps 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:39.720 and they'll set up on them like hunting spots, and 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.120 when the sounder comes in, they'll shoot one or maybe two, 0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:44.480 and then they scatter the rest and they'll run way 0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:47.359 off and they'll they'll set up new ranges. So you 0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:50.840 blow the whole plan. You waste all that money that's 0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:53.159 been spent, not only on the staff that's out working, 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:56.159 but on the the corn there sour and all the 0:26:56.160 --> 0:26:58.440 other bait, the materials it takes to make the traps. 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:01.480 But as he said, had hog hunting is fun and 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:04.160 a lot of people down in this part of the country, 0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:06.840 I mean, they have dogs, they're you know, they're really 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:10.159 into it. So they're expecting there to be a supply 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:12.720 of hogs on the landscape. Well, I'll throw this in 0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:15.919 from I mean, this is something like this aspect of 0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:17.840 it is something I'm familiar with and in j honest 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:24.760 and I UH have had discussions with an individual who 0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:29.639 was a hog trapper and at a time in the 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:35.000 past had even gone so far as to sell wild 0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:41.239 hogs to people who he later learned, we're using the 0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:45.200 wild hogs to establish populations of wild hogs and areas 0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:47.760 that did not have them in order to be able 0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:50.400 to hunt for them. That's going on down here. There's 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.000 there all over the country. There's this othery're spreading as 0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:56.200 they were ever getting prosecuted for this. Yeah, there's a 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:58.159 case going on in the county north of US right 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:04.360 now where somebody is is a known UH violator who propagator, Yeah, 0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:07.399 who actually raises these hogs and then releases them, trailers 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:09.280 them in from other states, keeps them in a pen. 0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:12.080 When people are ready to go hunting, those people will 0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.840 pay this guy. He'll release those hogs and they'll go 0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:19.480 chase him down on open lands, not pen lands, on 0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:21.440 open lands. Yeah, so he'll keep him in a pen 0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:24.600 until he has clients. Once he has clients willing to 0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:27.840 pay they'll release those hounds, or they'll release those hogs, 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:30.600 and they'll release the hounds, the hounds will chase him down. 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:33.040 The one dog goes out and finds them, the rest 0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:35.119 of the dogs come in and hold them. That person 0:28:35.240 --> 0:28:38.240 goes in and likely stabs the hog or or may 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:40.360 shoot it. But a lot of them are killing them 0:28:40.360 --> 0:28:43.680 with big booie knives and chasing them down that way. 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.440 So they're they're not only creating a demand for the 0:28:46.480 --> 0:28:48.760 recreation of it, but there's a small group of people 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:51.800 that are creating uh an industry around it. And you're 0:28:51.800 --> 0:28:54.600 talking about doing so in a very economically depressed part 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.640 of the country. So when these guys can get cash 0:28:57.680 --> 0:29:00.920 on hand for letting you go out and kill some hogs, 0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:03.719 you know, it's hard to convince them that that's not 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.360 a good deal. Do you mind? Do you mind real 0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:09.120 quick laying out Brandon, you mind real quick laying out 0:29:09.200 --> 0:29:12.600 your affiliations? Yeah? So, I'm the executive director of the 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:17.000 Conservation Federation of Missouri. We work with hunting, angling, all 0:29:17.120 --> 0:29:21.040 conservation wildlife groups across the state. I've known Parker for 0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:24.400 a few years. There was a Feral Hogs symposium where 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:27.600 state wildlife leaders came from kind of all over the Midwest, 0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:30.600 and we did a tour of a state park and 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:32.880 then we went on some private property. And that was 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:36.080 the first time I was ever really exposed to the 0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:40.240 real destruction that these hogs do to agg lands and 0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:43.400 why there's so much money being spent to eradicate them, 0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:47.080 because so much money is being lost by farmers down 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:50.120 here as their pastures are destroyed and crop fields can 0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:52.960 be decimated. It was it was really eye opening to me, 0:29:52.960 --> 0:29:57.240 and I've kind of been studying it with Parker ever since. No, Parker, 0:29:57.280 --> 0:30:05.360 when you look at the like the voices that most 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:08.040 want to so I I kind of understand the voices 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:11.320 that are interested in having pigs is like isolated groups 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:13.400 of people who want to have and they want to 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:16.120 have a hunting out, some hunting opportunity. What are the 0:30:16.200 --> 0:30:21.400 voices of the people here, um that sort of have 0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:27.720 the best argument against the pigs being here. Well, I 0:30:27.840 --> 0:30:30.920 understand those people too, because, like I said, I grew 0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:34.040 up doing it in its phone And you know, right 0:30:34.120 --> 0:30:39.400 or wrong, they've they've uh in senitized and sanitizes the incentivized, 0:30:39.440 --> 0:30:45.680 incentivized two chase or chase lounge earlier. Right, So UM, 0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:52.360 so I understand that. And but we're land managers right 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:57.000 or or we're stewarts of atlantis. An exotic invasive species. 0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:00.840 It's no different than bush honeysuckle UM shouldn't be here. 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.960 It competes with their natives. UM. And I think it's 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.640 it's difficult for for US wildlife people to go. I 0:31:07.720 --> 0:31:09.720 was competing with our natives and they're still dere in 0:31:09.720 --> 0:31:13.520 turkeys around and you know, and that thing I think 0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:15.720 people have a hard time with because they look and 0:31:15.800 --> 0:31:18.120 be like, Okay, but Texas is known for its white 0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:20.640 tail hunt. Texas has wild picks. That's right, Texas has 0:31:20.640 --> 0:31:24.160 the most wild picks. UM. But you know, you look 0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:26.720 at the things that deer in Turkey aren't the only 0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:32.000 things on the landscape, UM. Agricultural damage, UM, threatening an 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:36.200 endangered species, water quality. You know, all of these things 0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:40.840 UM are being caused from an exotic invasive species that 0:31:41.040 --> 0:31:44.880 shouldn't be here. So, I mean, you know, we're wildlife 0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:47.480 biologists in some In some instances you just want to 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:49.120 be like, jeez, that's what we're supposed to do. I mean, 0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:52.240 we're supposed to protect our our native species. It's not 0:31:52.400 --> 0:31:55.920 it's just not falling us flora as well. Yeah, yeah, 0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:59.920 I know in Hawaii they talk about uh, you know, 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:07.800 an unknown quantity, but perhaps dozens of species of wildlife 0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:12.480 we're lost with the introduction of pigs and rats unto 0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:15.000 the Hawaiian Islands because they had a whole suite of 0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:18.080 you know, because of a lack of certain types of predation, 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:22.400 they had whole suites of ground nesting birds that vanished. 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.760 Going you look at the disease issues too with the 0:32:25.840 --> 0:32:31.760 domestic um uh uh uh industry we have here. You know, 0:32:31.880 --> 0:32:36.000 the potential for a disease to get in the domestic 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:39.560 industry could be catastrophic to the state. Um. You know, 0:32:39.960 --> 0:32:42.880 we're one state south of of the biggest pork producing 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.560 state in the country. It's just Iowa. UM. So you know, 0:32:46.800 --> 0:32:49.760 there's a fear there that wild pigs would would sure 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:52.880 they have they have those diseases. They carry those diseases 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:57.280 that the um agg industry has done such a wonderful 0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:59.560 job of getting rid of. And it's taken them a 0:32:59.560 --> 0:33:02.160 long time. Um and and now they're out. You know, 0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:06.280 they've they've got those uh domestic populations for lack of 0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:10.920 a better word, clean and um, you know, reintroducing some 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:16.600 of those diseases could be a real setback financially, as 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:20.000 you know, for for consumers as well as producers. Well, 0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:21.760 it's funny there, and I don't I don't. I don't 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:23.880 expect you to comment on this unless you want to. 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:27.000 But what's funny there is to have this idea of 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.360 you know, you know, you call ferrell swine, but like 0:33:30.840 --> 0:33:33.520 common vernacular where you have this idea of a wild 0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:39.520 pig introducing disease to a domestic counterpart. It's sort of 0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:46.200 the opposite of the fear around domestic deer introducing disease 0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:52.000 to their wild counterpart. Yeah, yeah, it is. It's off 0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:55.360 that's off topic. Yeah, Well, we've kind of breathed over 0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:58.040 like the problems you know that the pigs do and 0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:00.080 how and why. But can we just get in that 0:34:00.120 --> 0:34:01.600 a little bit more? Like you talk like you're like 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:04.320 water water quality, but what exactly do they do to 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:07.800 diminish water quality? And what are they doing to you know, 0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:14.000 kill all these uh crops for all these farmers exactly. Well, 0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:18.440 one of the creeks that we were hunting around down here, Um, 0:34:18.480 --> 0:34:21.040 it looked better this year, Steve and I walked past it. 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:25.160 But last year this real lush, little spring creek and 0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:27.759 the spring was really pumping. Yesterday when we were down there, 0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:31.080 it was just absolutely decimated with rooting. I mean, you 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:32.960 go down there and you're expecting to be in this 0:34:33.440 --> 0:34:37.800 real serene, natural valley, and it looked like a monster 0:34:37.880 --> 0:34:41.160 truck had been ripping up and down this spring creek. 0:34:41.520 --> 0:34:44.799 Now this is way back in a wilderness, so very 0:34:44.800 --> 0:34:47.399 few people are laying their eyes on that. But if 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:50.719 that was your private property, that would be infuriating to you. 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:54.600 So you would call the government or whoever your representative 0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:56.759 is and say something has to be done about this 0:34:56.840 --> 0:35:00.759 invasive species that's destroying you know, my an sky that 0:35:00.760 --> 0:35:03.319 would be there in their feeding and it's rooting it 0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:06.600 all up and it just turns into a mud. They're 0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:10.440 just wallowing and rooting. And now all that that mud 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.760 and sediment is running in to that stream, which runs 0:35:13.760 --> 0:35:16.879 into a larger stream which runs into a river, so 0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:20.719 it's sending all that that sediment down river. Um, the 0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:23.680 crap damage is just hard to explain. It's unbelievable. It 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:26.640 looks like somebody went in with a brush hog. Sure, yeah, yeah, 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:29.440 they can, they can do a lot of damage in 0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:31.359 in a very short amount of time. And that's something 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:35.360 that is more common maybe in in in the South 0:35:35.440 --> 0:35:39.359 than it is in Missouri. Missouri is more uh, they're 0:35:40.000 --> 0:35:42.960 more in the ozarks. We do have some damage UM 0:35:43.040 --> 0:35:46.399 and the guys that have it wouldn't don't take it lightly. 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:50.640 But you know, we have UH state and federalistic species 0:35:50.680 --> 0:35:54.239 that are stored Hines emerald dragonfly, they have a um 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:59.279 they lave their larva in in a specialized little I 0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:02.239 forget the name of it. Uh, I don't know, it's 0:36:02.239 --> 0:36:04.719 an eco term, you know. But the hogs go through 0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:07.839 and and rude up and and eat the larva and 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:12.600 and they don't reproduce UM. Meads milkweed is another UM 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:16.640 Species of Concern listed species that hogs go through and 0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:20.160 trample and and and eat and and destroy and they 0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:22.759 don't come back. So you know, you look at it's 0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.319 it's not just we still have deer and we still 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:27.919 have turkeys, and you know they ate some of my corn. 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:30.759 But we're talking about you know, threatened and endangered species. 0:36:30.800 --> 0:36:33.279 That's you know, there's only very few of these left 0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.640 in the world. They're being consumed or destroyed by an exotic, 0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:38.960 invasive that shouldn't be here. You know, I don't know 0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:43.080 if the you know, if hin zem will dragonfi flying 0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:45.080 around this room, I don't know if I could identify it, 0:36:45.120 --> 0:36:48.160 but I know that you know, it's a it's a 0:36:48.200 --> 0:36:51.200 species that once they're gone, they're gone. Um and and 0:36:51.239 --> 0:36:55.240 that's being and that's uh happened to because of because 0:36:55.239 --> 0:36:57.359 of these Ferrell swine. And that's an example you use. 0:36:57.400 --> 0:37:02.280 It's you know, whether sea turtles or shore birds or whatever. 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:09.840 You know, we haven't exotic doing damage and removing federally 0:37:09.880 --> 0:37:14.760 and stay listed listed species. So how many how many 0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:19.319 Ferrell pigs? Well, let's let's take it this way. How 0:37:19.360 --> 0:37:21.360 far back in time would you need to go to 0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:26.560 when there were probably no Ferrell pigs and in Missouri? 0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:31.359 So um, I wasn't here then. But they're relatively new. 0:37:31.560 --> 0:37:35.720 You know, if you went back fifteen years, I don't 0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:38.840 know that you could find too many people. You guys 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:41.560 might know this better than me, but but you couldn't 0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.240 find too many people that knew where where a Farrell 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:48.200 hog was. You go back twenty years, they're very very rare. 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:51.160 You know, they were brought in and it's like I said, 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:54.239 they're incredibly for coon. And you gotta see the terrain 0:37:54.360 --> 0:37:56.120 we're in. Man, you turned some pigs back here they 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:59.960 go undetected for forever. So this is a pretty this 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:03.839 is like a fairly new issue here. Absolutely. And how 0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:06.640 many is there an estimate on how many there are? No, 0:38:07.600 --> 0:38:10.040 we're doing some work on on that now, but there 0:38:10.239 --> 0:38:13.040 is not an estimate. Well, how about you put it 0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:14.799 this way, how many of you guys caught and killed? 0:38:15.560 --> 0:38:20.759 So the last year, um, we caught and killed just 0:38:20.960 --> 0:38:26.239 over six thousand, five hundred in this state. In the state, Yeah, 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:29.759 just in Missouri. Now the other states to take you know, 0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:34.600 numbers many many, many more than that, Texas, Oklahoma. You 0:38:34.640 --> 0:38:37.560 know those guys, Um, they take a lot, a lot 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:41.480 of pigs and multiple thousands of hawks. And in that 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:43.840 time when you've taken them, have you guys gotten a 0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:47.759 sense of where exactly they're coming from? Well, we know, 0:38:47.920 --> 0:38:50.960 we know where they are. Um. And as much as 0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:54.160 it's it's a relatively new when you say fifteen years, 0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:57.560 it's a relatively new problem. Uh, the Missouri Department of 0:38:57.600 --> 0:39:00.200 Conservation has really rolled up as sleeves and out to 0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:02.719 work and ask their ball just and their people in 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:04.799 the field and done a lot of work, and we 0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:07.359 know or we feel like we have a pretty good 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:12.000 handle on on where those populations are. And it's it 0:39:12.320 --> 0:39:15.320 looks like uh, it's it's not a blob, of course, 0:39:15.480 --> 0:39:18.160 like natural sip. It looks like a zebra or a checkerboard, 0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:23.080 or it's it's patchwork um. And so across the entire state, 0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:25.400 across the entire state, mostly in the southern half and 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:30.640 mostly in the ozarks, and mostly on public land. Yeah, 0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:32.600 of course, why do you think that is? I have 0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:36.359 no idea what because people can hunt it, really And 0:39:36.520 --> 0:39:38.759 so if you were to turn if you had a 0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:42.080 truck a little pigs and your neighbor is a guy 0:39:42.120 --> 0:39:44.120 you don't get along with, and you know he's not 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.480 gonna let you hunt those pigs in the back of 0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:48.960 your truck on his place. You're gonna turn the loose 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:53.000 on his place, of course. Not, You're gonna go yeah, yeah, 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:54.879 all right, You're gonna go where you can hunt them. 0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:57.920 So if you lay, if you lay the map of 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:04.640 where Ferrell swine um are in Missouri over public ground, 0:40:05.080 --> 0:40:09.960 it almost marries up perfectly, No kid, Yeah, I thought 0:40:09.960 --> 0:40:13.200 it was really interesting when I was showing Parker yesterday 0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:16.320 pictures of the feral hogs I got on my property. 0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:19.239 He's like, well, that's a Springfield hog. And I mean 0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:21.480 they've they've got it drilled down with your property is 0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:24.160 like up against the large chunk of public property, one 0:40:24.160 --> 0:40:27.800 of the one of the largest contiguous pieces of public 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:32.160 property in Missouri. So they're definitely getting released back in there. 0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:35.600 But he's able to tell you, like distinctly where this 0:40:35.640 --> 0:40:38.359 hog has been shipped in from and where this hog 0:40:38.440 --> 0:40:41.200 has been Well, I gotta I know, they look a 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:44.959 little different in different parts of the state, and so yeah, 0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:46.759 I don't know that I would go as far as 0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:49.120 into I know exactly where they're from, but yeah, but 0:40:49.239 --> 0:40:51.919 they are. They differ, um, depending on where you're grab 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:54.080 them from from, you know, different parts of the state 0:40:54.280 --> 0:40:57.200 and different parts of the country. They look completely different. 0:40:57.560 --> 0:41:02.040 So you know, it's so so they're not homogenized me 0:41:02.040 --> 0:41:05.440 and there's like different ones that have different backgrounds, got 0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:10.320 them from different places. And and something that um people 0:41:10.360 --> 0:41:13.720 do a lot of times is they introduced domestics into 0:41:13.800 --> 0:41:19.600 those wild or feral populations to increase the size body size. Um. 0:41:19.640 --> 0:41:25.000 You know, so Zilla came around, well, some of those. 0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:27.960 I remember one of those giant pigs. It turns up 0:41:28.480 --> 0:41:30.799 like a hog Zilla. I don't know, like the it was, like, 0:41:31.160 --> 0:41:34.000 not the original one, but one of these giant pigs. 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:35.960 It turns up where a guy exupposed to killed some 0:41:36.640 --> 0:41:39.520 stomp or wild pig. A few days later, a guy 0:41:39.560 --> 0:41:41.520 comes out with photographs of the thing standing in the 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:43.279 back of the truck. Is he sold it to the guy? 0:41:43.400 --> 0:41:48.160 Of course, Yeah, that's not a wild pig, that's ostella 0:41:48.640 --> 0:41:52.520 and provides photo documentation on it. You get it. If 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:55.320 you get two hundred fifty three hundred pounds, that's a 0:41:55.600 --> 0:41:59.080 serious wild hog. That's a big one, you know. And 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:03.239 they're all born right yeah, I mean they're they're not 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:06.000 eating their nat eating corn from from the bucket, you know, 0:42:06.160 --> 0:42:09.440 They're they're eating akrons and and whatever else they can 0:42:09.480 --> 0:42:12.480 get down in and out in the woods. So you know, 0:42:12.480 --> 0:42:14.440 two hundor fifty three hundre pounds is a great big 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:16.480 and now they get bigger. But you know that's that's 0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:19.200 a great big adult. So I want to get into 0:42:19.239 --> 0:42:25.400 talking about the process of um how it all works. 0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:33.000 Meaning you identify a here, here's a new blip on 0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:35.880 the map, Okay, you identify a population of these things, 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:41.279 how does it come to your attention? Okay, how do 0:42:41.320 --> 0:42:45.040 you verify the presence? And then what are the steps 0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:47.640 that take as as you sort of walk through, Like, wow, 0:42:47.760 --> 0:42:49.879 now we got a new gang of pigs we gotta 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:52.040 deal with all right, that's kind of a that's a 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:55.719 that's kind of a two part question. Number one, Um, 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:59.040 how do we deal with the new populations? What do 0:42:59.080 --> 0:43:03.000 we do? So? Um, like I said, the Missouri Department 0:43:03.040 --> 0:43:07.600 of Conservation, Mark Twain, National Force, Army Corps, engineers. We 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.399 have a group of eleven land management agencies that are 0:43:11.600 --> 0:43:14.359 all out on this. On these public public lands, now 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:19.160 public lands and private lands, we differentiate. We do not 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:23.160 go on anybody's land that does not invite us. So people, 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:26.239 so farmers are people who who have fero swine or 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:29.680 wild hogs. They want help, they give us a shout, right. So, 0:43:30.320 --> 0:43:34.000 so you can't go even you can't go on someone 0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:36.719 land the same way you'd be able to go onto 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:41.160 their land for you know, emergency purposes or anything like 0:43:41.200 --> 0:43:44.480 no way, no way, no, no, we can't trespass. We 0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:46.279 have a we have a form that we have to 0:43:46.280 --> 0:43:51.000 get them to sign. That lets us be on their property. Yeah, 0:43:51.040 --> 0:43:54.120 I mean that that that's good. Obviously, it's not surprising 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:55.839 me by me. I know that there are certain things 0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.000 like you're cooking up some meth on your land, for instance, 0:43:58.280 --> 0:44:00.480 people can go on there and get that, while services 0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:06.000 can because we're non regulatory. Yeah. So, um so we 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:08.160 have got it at times we have not that I'm 0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:09.880 not I know that you don't set the positive, but 0:44:09.920 --> 0:44:14.480 that that at times has the really problematic and it 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:18.800 always will be. So if you're trying to do an eradication, 0:44:18.960 --> 0:44:21.839 there's three things that have to happen. Right. You have 0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:26.200 to have a uh control that works right, you're you 0:44:26.239 --> 0:44:30.680 have to have something that gets rid of whatever you're 0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:32.600 trying to get rid of. If you're doing rats, you 0:44:32.600 --> 0:44:34.600 have to have a toxic that kills them, right, and 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:38.879 it has to be effective. Number two, every individual has 0:44:38.960 --> 0:44:43.760 to be exposed to said control measure, right. And number three, 0:44:44.200 --> 0:44:49.640 you have to have one per cent uh that was 0:44:49.760 --> 0:44:53.040 number two. Number two, everybody's got to get exposed, which 0:44:53.120 --> 0:44:55.359 is the problem. And and number three, you can't have 0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:59.040 any immigration in from from outside sources. So if we 0:44:59.120 --> 0:45:00.960 get rid of all all the all the pigs in 0:45:00.960 --> 0:45:04.759 southern Missouri and somebody brings them back in. Well, by god, 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:07.080 we start over. So those three things, that's why it 0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:11.640 seems like eradication can happen on small islands right successfully, 0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:15.440 it doesn't happen on large land masses. It happens in 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:20.560 large land masses when everybody gets united and and recognizes 0:45:20.840 --> 0:45:23.480 these are bad. But you were right, and it's a 0:45:23.680 --> 0:45:26.600 it's a fact. It's going to be very problematic in 0:45:26.760 --> 0:45:28.839 the future. Yeah, there's a fight going on right now 0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:33.120 legislatively over Farrell hawks. You actually have legislators down in 0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:36.280 this part of the state in support of Ferrell hawk hunting, 0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:40.160 very upset with the Department of Conservation for trying to 0:45:40.680 --> 0:45:43.920 do the right thing and eliminate not only the desire 0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:47.000 to hunt them, but the entire population. So it's a 0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:50.239 it's a political bat there's an actual political conversation about 0:45:50.239 --> 0:45:53.040 whether or not you want wild pigs or not. The 0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:57.080 only reason you can hunt wild pigs on uh Mark 0:45:57.120 --> 0:46:00.480 Twain National Force right now is because a certain politician 0:46:01.360 --> 0:46:06.040 has threatened, you know, retribution if it were to be stopped. 0:46:08.040 --> 0:46:14.799 All right, So back to how does a problem become like, 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:18.839 how does the new population become identified and then what 0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:21.880 steps are taken to to just to go address the issue. 0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:26.040 All right, So we have a strategic elimination plan within 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:28.640 Missouri with within our patchwork. We know where they are, 0:46:28.920 --> 0:46:33.719 we know the terrain, the habitat, the accessibility, um, and 0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:38.640 then we put those resources in that area. Elimination areas 0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:42.960 one one is our lowest population UM. We have the 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:47.920 most accessibility to it. The terrain is most conducive for elimination, 0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:53.200 and we're being very very successful. UM. We are repetitively 0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:56.360 successful on If you think about a fire and a 0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.719 little ember goes out in your yard and starts that 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:01.160 those are popping up, that's what you're talking about. When 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:03.360 those pop up, we drop what we're doing and we 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:07.920 make sure those populations do not become established. So we have, 0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:11.320 like I said, eleven partner agencies and all their people 0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:14.239 are out there all the time on all of these 0:47:14.280 --> 0:47:18.400 public lands, and when new sign or sightings happen, it 0:47:18.440 --> 0:47:21.520 gets to us pretty quick, um, and we've been very 0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:25.640 successful at at suppressing those those new population. You look 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:28.160 in there's a new blip on the map that takes 0:47:28.200 --> 0:47:31.080 priority over some established population that you've been struggling. It 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:34.040 does yeah, and and what you guys do, like how 0:47:34.080 --> 0:47:37.360 do you going and even begin Well, it's and it's 0:47:37.000 --> 0:47:40.399 a it's a once we get land access, it's it's 0:47:40.440 --> 0:47:43.840 no different than than any other the control worker do. 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:47.000 We set up cameras, look at the sign, put out bait, 0:47:47.080 --> 0:47:49.000 get them on bait, and trap them and remove them 0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:51.400 as quick as we can. So you use trail cameras 0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:54.480 to try to verify the presence. Yeah, we use trail cameras. 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:57.120 And you know, the thing about pigs is you kind 0:47:57.120 --> 0:47:58.839 of know when they're there. You know, that makes such 0:47:58.880 --> 0:48:01.520 a mess, and in our they're rooting and tracks and 0:48:01.600 --> 0:48:04.200 rubbing on trees. That's it's not hard to figure out 0:48:04.200 --> 0:48:09.040 when there and something identify a population of like one, 0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:14.040 oh yeah all the time. Oh yeah, And you can 0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:15.800 come in. Someone could be like, hey, I saw a 0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:18.319 wild pig and you can go in and usually you're 0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:20.799 like a good enough tracker or whatever that someone could 0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:22.719 go in there and be like, yeah, it's true, No 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:25.000 I'm not that good there. It's a big You dump 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.200 out corn and they come to it. That's like you 0:48:27.320 --> 0:48:32.880 verify or that's a way to do it right, yeah, yeah, 0:48:33.160 --> 0:48:34.880 And then what are the ways in which you guys 0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:39.719 catch them and kill them. Um. We do mostly. Probably 0:48:39.800 --> 0:48:44.000 nine of ar take is is trapping, a smaller percent 0:48:44.360 --> 0:48:48.920 is night shooting, and then another percent is aerial gunning. 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:51.680 So talk about the night shooting. How's that work? Um. 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:57.279 Night shooting is used in in specific situations. UM. A 0:48:57.280 --> 0:49:01.000 lot of times when we have single uh bowl wurs. Uh. 0:49:01.040 --> 0:49:04.839 We don't spend a lot of time trapping boars. Uh. 0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:08.200 We target females because that's our population control, the sounders, 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:11.640 the big groups. UM. So we're targeting them. If we 0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:14.920 have some some boards that are hanging around, sometimes we'll 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:17.920 do that. If we're having crop damage. UM. So if 0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:19.800 you have a field of corn, right, if you have 0:49:19.840 --> 0:49:21.879 a hundred acres of corn, it's hard to go pull 0:49:22.000 --> 0:49:24.800 pour out a bucket of corn and get them to 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:27.520 come in your trap. Uh. And every night you know 0:49:27.600 --> 0:49:29.600 that corns in the dough stage and the hogs are 0:49:29.640 --> 0:49:33.680 wrecking it. You know, in the landowner the farmers just 0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:36.279 beside himself pulling his hair out. We use a lot 0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:38.920 of night shooting then to keep them, um, keep them 0:49:38.920 --> 0:49:41.920 out of the out of the corn. UM. When we 0:49:42.000 --> 0:49:46.160 get down to the last few animals, that is generally 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:48.759 how we remove them through night shooting. So I was 0:49:48.800 --> 0:49:50.520 able to go out on one of these night shooting 0:49:50.719 --> 0:49:54.200 excursions with some of Parker's people, and uh, not to 0:49:54.440 --> 0:49:57.880 diminish the noble work, but man, that was pretty fun. 0:49:58.040 --> 0:50:00.760 Like we actually were in the bed of pickup truck 0:50:01.120 --> 0:50:04.040 and I was the guy with a thermal imaging scope 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.799 and we're cruising the corn fields on the outside of 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:12.200 Fort Leonard Wood Army Base and you're just on farms 0:50:12.200 --> 0:50:15.280 that you have permission to be on, driving their farms 0:50:15.560 --> 0:50:19.200 in the winter, using thermal imaging to locate these hogs. 0:50:19.640 --> 0:50:23.120 And the driver's driving. We're sitting in the back scoping. 0:50:23.480 --> 0:50:25.480 When you see him, you tap on the top of 0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:29.880 the truck. They stopped, the shooter gets out. Pile pile, 0:50:30.280 --> 0:50:34.279 just one field had thirty in it. Probably that was 0:50:34.320 --> 0:50:37.680 the biggest one we saw. And then working to assist 0:50:37.880 --> 0:50:40.719 a farmer who's trying to protect the crop. Yeah, the 0:50:40.800 --> 0:50:43.839 general rule we on those big groups, we really try 0:50:43.920 --> 0:50:46.120 not to night shoot, and we try not to shoot 0:50:46.120 --> 0:50:50.600 where we're trapping because it really messes up our whole system, 0:50:50.680 --> 0:50:53.399 makes them much more difficult to trap. These situations are 0:50:53.640 --> 0:50:56.200 like we said, when a farmer's just beside himself in 0:50:56.239 --> 0:50:59.440 a and you know he's just getting so much damage 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:02.759 that that's really one of our only options is to 0:51:02.840 --> 0:51:05.319 do night night work like that. Okay, So talk about 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:08.960 trapping so um sort of like the high of it 0:51:09.080 --> 0:51:14.280 right right. Well, like I said, there's a process, UM, 0:51:14.320 --> 0:51:18.960 and it varies how successful we are by by common year, 0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:22.440 by location, UM, a lot of variables. It can be 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:28.440 very frustrating or very very UM efficient. We had a 0:51:28.440 --> 0:51:31.800 guy last year that works with us, Jameson, He caught 0:51:32.040 --> 0:51:34.640 sixty two pigs in one trap, and then I think 0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:37.520 he had over a hundred just that week. UM. So 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:40.279 when you when they're coming to your corn where they're 0:51:40.280 --> 0:51:44.040 not being pressured from outside sources, UM, without being run 0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:47.120 with dogs, people shooting at them, their pigs, they're they're 0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:50.560 pretty easy to catch UM. And so you gotta train 0:51:50.600 --> 0:51:53.880 them up on the corn. UM. With the system that 0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:58.280 we're using right now, whenever they get on the corn, 0:51:58.840 --> 0:52:02.080 we set the trap in in a matter of two 0:52:02.160 --> 0:52:05.080 or three nights. We generally have you're not like prebating 0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:07.800 them for weeks together. Sometimes we do. And it depends 0:52:07.840 --> 0:52:09.719 on the type of trap, and it depends on the 0:52:09.760 --> 0:52:13.399 time of year. UM. So you know it varies. It's 0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:15.560 it's a it's a wild animal. You know, it doesn't 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:18.279 read the same books that we do. So you know, 0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:20.880 you can get them all the first night, um or 0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:23.479 it could take a month. So you're kind of going 0:52:23.560 --> 0:52:25.520 by You're you're going by how many you know to 0:52:25.560 --> 0:52:27.319 be in the area and how many you figure are 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:32.040 hitting the baby. And we use cameras a lot for that. UM. 0:52:32.120 --> 0:52:33.719 So what we want to do is catch up. You know, 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:36.080 we're we're working for elimination, so we don't want to 0:52:36.200 --> 0:52:39.360 catch the first two pigs that run run in the trap. 0:52:39.440 --> 0:52:41.600 You know, we don't catch the twenty eight others that 0:52:41.600 --> 0:52:44.719 are outside. So UM, we take steps to make sure 0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:48.520 that we get all of those uh animals in there 0:52:48.560 --> 0:52:51.279 to remove the whole group. You know, you know one 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:53.799 of one or two animals doesn't do us any good. 0:52:53.840 --> 0:52:56.759 It educates the other ones that UM. You know, it's 0:52:56.760 --> 0:53:00.600 a lot of investment for a very little return. So, 0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:03.160 so describe the trap and how it sort of relates 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:07.920 to the bait pile. Well, I'm gonna get in trouble 0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:11.640 for this because each trapper is very specific about how 0:53:11.680 --> 0:53:15.239 he likes it. As you can imagine. But the long 0:53:15.280 --> 0:53:19.200 and short of it, um is we use around corral trap. 0:53:19.920 --> 0:53:22.360 Um with a with a drop door in the front. 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:26.759 We use around corral trap that's elevated off the ground. Um, 0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:29.879 we use the whole crawl is the whole corral? What's 0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:33.080 the diameter on that thing? Uh? Five sixteen foot panels? 0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:35.520 Four or sixteen foot panels. So whatever the math works 0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:38.160 out of that, it's pretty big. Um. You know there's 0:53:38.239 --> 0:53:42.560 a sixteen by sixteen krawl. Yeah, yeah, Um. We use 0:53:42.640 --> 0:53:47.080 some commercially made ones spending it on what Uh it's 0:53:46.840 --> 0:53:49.680 a it's a it's real hard to explain with us. 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:51.680 There's there's a cardinal pole that goes in the in 0:53:51.680 --> 0:53:54.080 the middle and some arms will go out in the 0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:55.880 slide that goes up and down. It's kind of a 0:53:55.920 --> 0:54:03.040 reverse yeah umbrella type mechanism there walking under the bar 0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:06.120 of the suspended trap. It's really neat. You know. The 0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:10.240 Noble Foundation developed a trap uh called the board buster, 0:54:10.360 --> 0:54:13.319 and we use it a lot and it's, um, it's 0:54:13.360 --> 0:54:16.920 really effective and I don't know, but somebody needs to 0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:21.160 do with study. It's not that hogs don't look up, 0:54:21.239 --> 0:54:24.880 but they if they can see through something I think, Uh, 0:54:25.080 --> 0:54:27.960 they they go in, they go in a lot faster 0:54:28.080 --> 0:54:31.120 than they do like a regular door, uh six eight 0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:33.040 foot wide door. I don't know if they don't like 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:35.879 going through it or what. But the thing this the 0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:40.040 guys that came up with the with that uh technology, 0:54:40.080 --> 0:54:44.520 many they revolutionized UM. Hog trapping as far as getting 0:54:44.560 --> 0:54:49.040 hogs to go underneath started out years ago. I think 0:54:49.040 --> 0:54:53.320 with the drop nets. You remember those same concept. Um, 0:54:53.400 --> 0:54:55.880 this is just just just a hog trap and a 0:54:55.920 --> 0:54:58.799 metal hog trap that drops down and and so you know, 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:01.160 it just varies. You know times a regular door they'll 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:05.320 run right in. You just it's variable. So so the 0:55:05.440 --> 0:55:11.280 drop trap are they monitoring it through some kind of camera? Right? So? Um, 0:55:11.440 --> 0:55:14.880 the commercial ones are monitored through some kind of camera 0:55:15.080 --> 0:55:18.120 RS or not, because as you can tell this week 0:55:18.200 --> 0:55:21.200 by your cell phone they're absolutely useless. You might as 0:55:21.239 --> 0:55:23.279 well throw it in the river out here, no cell 0:55:23.360 --> 0:55:27.920 service whatsoever. So RS are triggered uh, manually by by 0:55:27.920 --> 0:55:31.239 a hog. And you know it's as interesting. We we 0:55:31.400 --> 0:55:35.360 came up with all different um sort of trigger mechanisms 0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:37.440 and in different ways of doing it to try to 0:55:37.560 --> 0:55:41.960 maximize our our catching. And one of the guys that 0:55:41.960 --> 0:55:45.040 that worked work with us now and said, hey, guys, 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:49.040 let's let's put them the trigger the height of the 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:51.520 biggest pig that we have on camera instead of right 0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:54.279 down on the ground. Yeah, and you know, we kind 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:55.680 of looked at each other like, well, we haven't been 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:59.000 doing that for ten years, you know. So the first 0:55:59.040 --> 0:56:00.839 ones in, just like any thing, you know, the young 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:03.719 dumb ones run right in, you know, the smaller animals, 0:56:03.719 --> 0:56:06.359 and generally the last animal to go into the most 0:56:06.400 --> 0:56:08.920 the biggest, most mature, and so the goal is to 0:56:09.040 --> 0:56:12.920 have that animal inside, and generally when that animals inside, 0:56:12.920 --> 0:56:16.960 then all the rest of them are caught. Yeah. So 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:19.239 how many did someone get in one trap? Sixty two? 0:56:19.960 --> 0:56:24.160 Sixty two inside of a sixteen by sixteen they were 0:56:24.200 --> 0:56:28.719 packed in? Yeah? Yeah, did it get them all? Every 0:56:28.719 --> 0:56:30.640 one of them? It was Yeah, it was super neat 0:56:31.200 --> 0:56:32.839 and that was it. And it might have been sixty eight, 0:56:32.840 --> 0:56:35.480 but I think it was sixty two. Yeah, that was it. Gone. 0:56:35.680 --> 0:56:39.400 I mean sixty two pigs gone, you know, in three nights. 0:56:39.400 --> 0:56:42.759 One guy, what does what does what would it take 0:56:44.200 --> 0:56:48.800 to do that? With dogs, with stand hunting, with sport hunting, 0:56:48.880 --> 0:56:51.799 I mean, it's it's that's how you get there, You're 0:56:51.840 --> 0:56:56.800 not never Yeah, that's what you're saying. Now, explain the 0:56:56.800 --> 0:56:59.120 other kind of trap. The corral trap is not suspended 0:57:00.080 --> 0:57:02.160 got trap doors? Sure, just trap doors. And there's all 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:05.520 different uh different styles and and they and they all work, 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:09.279 you know, their own in their own uh uh way. 0:57:09.400 --> 0:57:11.799 And you know, some are very effective and and some 0:57:11.880 --> 0:57:13.480 of them not so much that you know, there's a 0:57:13.480 --> 0:57:16.440 whole another other discussion on the trap doors. Some some 0:57:16.480 --> 0:57:20.000 guys are super you know, it's trappers, man. They're all 0:57:20.080 --> 0:57:23.160 got their own thing and and uh so, but they're 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:25.600 all effective. You know, once you train that animal to 0:57:25.640 --> 0:57:29.720 go inside. Um, they're effective. There's multi catch doors and 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:33.440 then the ones you can um trigger from your cell 0:57:33.520 --> 0:57:36.720 phone or ones that are manually triggered, and you know, 0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:40.880 all variations in in through there. When does aerial gunning 0:57:40.920 --> 0:57:44.440 come into place? That's gonna be expensive. Well, aerial gunning 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:49.400 comes into play, um in Missouri. In in other areas 0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:51.280 they do a lot more of it, but the terrain 0:57:51.400 --> 0:57:53.880 is a lot better for it than than in the ozarks. 0:57:54.080 --> 0:57:57.880 You know. Um, aerial gunning comes into play when we're 0:57:57.920 --> 0:58:03.760 trying to protect a very remote area. UM. You know, 0:58:03.840 --> 0:58:06.320 as you can imagine getting some traps way back in 0:58:06.440 --> 0:58:09.360 some of these areas. We also use aerial gunning for 0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:13.680 the last few animals UM, particularly of trap showl ones 0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:16.640 are ones we can't find, we'll use that helicopter UM 0:58:16.680 --> 0:58:19.680 to do that. We we did it most recently UM 0:58:19.720 --> 0:58:23.240 down in southeast Missouri when the when the water came up, 0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:25.760 and when the water comes up and the river floods 0:58:25.760 --> 0:58:29.680 and all of the UM pigs get on the levee systems, 0:58:29.920 --> 0:58:33.760 you can be very very effective. UM. So you pick it, yeah, 0:58:33.760 --> 0:58:36.520 you pick and choosing. And we also use aerial gunning, 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.960 not just aerial gunning, but aerial surveillance. So when you're 0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:43.520 thinking about elimination, you have to detect everybody. So we 0:58:43.600 --> 0:58:46.160 know we may have some pigs in this area, We're 0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:48.480 not sure, So you can go up and look down 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.480 in the wintertime and see if there's fresh rooting and 0:58:52.040 --> 0:58:54.760 or not. Like, hey, we we flew this whole area 0:58:55.080 --> 0:58:57.480 and there's no fresh rooting and we're taking us months 0:58:57.800 --> 0:59:00.400 to scout it out by by ground, you know, or 0:59:00.440 --> 0:59:03.400 by foot. So it's used for other things other than 0:59:03.560 --> 0:59:06.800 just aerial control. So we're like take a place like 0:59:06.840 --> 0:59:10.600 where we're sitting right now. Right, there's pigs up there. 0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:14.680 I think we uh, we took a picture of a 0:59:14.680 --> 0:59:20.640 track today, So where is it on the list right? Like, like, 0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:22.640 where is this spot? How do you got how would 0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:25.560 you typify this location? We are We're in a big 0:59:25.680 --> 0:59:32.080 chunk of public land right in the Ozarks, is pretty 0:59:32.080 --> 0:59:36.360 heavily rolled it up. There's a lot of recreation goes on. Um, 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:43.520 it's it's bordered by small farms and recreational properties. And 0:59:43.600 --> 0:59:47.080 there's some number of wild pigs out there. All right, 0:59:47.400 --> 0:59:49.480 So is this spot like on hold or is it 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:53.000 like on monitoring or is it active control? It's active control. 0:59:53.160 --> 0:59:56.800 So this is Elimination Area Zone four, I think. So 0:59:57.160 --> 1:00:01.320 Elimination Area Zone four calls for X number of people. 1:00:01.320 --> 1:00:03.400 I'd have to look in the in the plan, but um, 1:00:03.440 --> 1:00:06.120 there's guys in this zone that that are working this 1:00:06.200 --> 1:00:10.360 area NonStop. This is one of our areas where we 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:13.360 take the most iron and Reynolds County. You have trappers 1:00:13.400 --> 1:00:15.560 that are working here now Oh yeah, yeah, I'll see 1:00:15.920 --> 1:00:20.320 I'll through this area sure, okay, yeah, And they're using 1:00:20.360 --> 1:00:24.000 all these different things that you've created where we where 1:00:24.040 --> 1:00:26.400 we were talking about that creek there's a trap down there, 1:00:27.000 --> 1:00:30.720 oh government trap. Yeah. Okay, when you talk about someone trapping, 1:00:30.840 --> 1:00:33.280 I thought when you mentioned that, I pictured that someone 1:00:33.320 --> 1:00:35.800 wanted to catch that pig, to bring it up, to 1:00:36.120 --> 1:00:39.400 eat it or move it somewhere or whatever. I got you. 1:00:39.480 --> 1:00:47.040 So that was like a removal plan because it's clean. Now. Yeah. Um, 1:00:47.200 --> 1:00:52.000 you mentioned to me some work on some some work 1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:57.000 has been done on the disease vector issue and how 1:00:57.000 --> 1:00:59.760 it might apply to people. All right, can you sketch 1:00:59.760 --> 1:01:03.080 out some of the because because it's the thing people say, right, Oh, 1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:10.120 pigs and full diseases. Sure? Um, like what uh trichinosis 1:01:10.200 --> 1:01:12.280 you mentioned you got a dose of that, right, yeah, 1:01:12.400 --> 1:01:16.520 they have trickin nosis. Um, they have pseudorabies. People can't 1:01:16.520 --> 1:01:19.920 get pseudoabies, but your your dog can get cedarabies. And 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:23.960 you hear about that happening a lot. Brucellosis. People can 1:01:24.000 --> 1:01:28.040 get brucellosis, cattle can get cattle can get bruce brucellosis 1:01:28.160 --> 1:01:29.959 moved from a pig to a coward. You know. Um, 1:01:30.000 --> 1:01:35.600 I think there's brucels brucellosis uh siuus and brucellosis um 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:39.080 for the bovines. And I'm not sure the veterinarian guys 1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:41.920 explain it to me and and UM, I don't follow 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:46.280 it so much, but I know UM that you that 1:01:46.480 --> 1:01:48.680 I don't know if the sious maybe the sewers can 1:01:48.720 --> 1:01:50.880 go to the cantals, but it can be passed on 1:01:50.960 --> 1:01:53.800 or something like it could definitely go to the domestic pigs. Yeah, 1:01:54.320 --> 1:01:56.400 that's probably one of the words they would not get 1:01:56.480 --> 1:02:00.160 into the right, right. And so those guys are all 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:03.880 the egg industry is always testing their their heard right, 1:02:04.000 --> 1:02:07.200 and they're always clean, clean, clean clean, And if they 1:02:07.240 --> 1:02:11.560 get a positive that that whole thing gets quarantined and 1:02:11.560 --> 1:02:14.800 and transport, you know, stops, whether it's in state, out 1:02:14.800 --> 1:02:18.280 of state, whatever the rags are, you know, transport stops. 1:02:18.280 --> 1:02:21.160 So yeah, So so for listeners, if you if you 1:02:21.200 --> 1:02:25.120 follow her every year, you'll hear a big story about 1:02:25.760 --> 1:02:35.520 um people fighting over whether bison they're leaving yellowsto National Park. Um. 1:02:35.640 --> 1:02:37.880 The issue there comes down to the scene we're talking 1:02:37.880 --> 1:02:41.640 about with brucellosis, depending on who you ask. And I'll 1:02:41.640 --> 1:02:43.280 actually lay this whole thing out real quick as much 1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:46.080 as I can, so when the snow's pile up in 1:02:46.120 --> 1:02:51.800 the late winter, you'll have buffalo migrate out of Yelosto 1:02:51.920 --> 1:02:55.760 National Park, and they'll come out into various private lands, 1:02:56.240 --> 1:02:59.920 national forest lands and and go about their business. Uh, 1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:06.919 there's a fear that these animals will re will will 1:03:07.000 --> 1:03:11.880 reintroduce a Eurasian cattle disease back to cattle. So cattle 1:03:12.320 --> 1:03:15.160 that were brought here to the US had a disease 1:03:15.160 --> 1:03:22.440 called brucellosis. Brucellosis was passed two buffalo and there's infections 1:03:22.440 --> 1:03:26.760 in the park. But then in the meantime they eradicated 1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:30.320 it from domestic house So now the cattle producers in 1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:35.320 Wyoming and Montana enjoy what's called brucellosis free status. They 1:03:35.360 --> 1:03:38.360 don't need to do the constant, rigorous testing because there's 1:03:38.360 --> 1:03:40.600 no cases and they haven't had a case in a while. 1:03:41.200 --> 1:03:44.040 What they're very afraid of is the minute one of 1:03:44.080 --> 1:03:47.640 these buffalo comes out rubs noses or no it's actually passed, 1:03:48.040 --> 1:03:51.880 they'll drop a fetus and animals, we'll lick and eat 1:03:51.960 --> 1:03:55.680 each other's uh after birth. One of these things is 1:03:55.680 --> 1:03:58.360 gonna pick the disease up, and all of a sudden, 1:03:58.400 --> 1:04:02.080 the cattlemen of these states will no longer enjoy brucellois 1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:04.680 free status. And I think that it actually this is 1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:08.000 something that should be fixed. Really, it actually goes state level. 1:04:08.880 --> 1:04:11.680 So a guy in the south, you know, the the 1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:15.680 guy in the extreme south of Montana or the extreme 1:04:15.800 --> 1:04:19.280 north of Whealming could get brucellosis and his cattle herd, 1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:24.440 and it affects the guy four miles away open some 1:04:24.520 --> 1:04:27.680 other corner of the state. Some people say that the 1:04:27.720 --> 1:04:30.720 brucellosis thing in terms of buffalo some people say it's 1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:33.720 all bullshit, And what it really comes down to is 1:04:33.800 --> 1:04:38.520 a conversation about grazing rights. So that's just and they 1:04:38.600 --> 1:04:41.920 say that this brucelloisis thing is sort of a proxy 1:04:42.080 --> 1:04:46.480 in place of this other argument about is this grass 1:04:47.160 --> 1:04:49.840 belong to cattle or does this grass belonging to these 1:04:49.880 --> 1:04:53.920 wild ass animals? And so people fight that out all 1:04:53.920 --> 1:04:56.240 the time. But until sitting here with you right now, 1:04:56.280 --> 1:05:02.040 I had no idea that there's with and and so 1:05:02.080 --> 1:05:04.400 they're as they're a reservoir, right. We can get it 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.400 out of domestics, but you cannot get it out of 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:10.720 the wild population. So it's always there. It's always a 1:05:10.800 --> 1:05:13.760 threaten it's not always innitie. Can you explain, Uh, you 1:05:13.800 --> 1:05:16.880 mentioned something yesterday that there's like a closed system with 1:05:17.000 --> 1:05:21.760 domestic pork. Sure, yeah, so, um, you know, back in 1:05:21.960 --> 1:05:25.560 back in the day, everybody raised uh their hogs out 1:05:25.560 --> 1:05:29.760 in the pasture or woven wire fence, you know, hog wire, 1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:34.680 we called it lecture fencer, the whole thing. And you 1:05:34.680 --> 1:05:37.600 you heard as a kid a cookier cookie pork, cook 1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:40.200 cooking pork or whatever, cook a cook a cook it. Well, 1:05:40.240 --> 1:05:43.560 you don't hear that so much anymore because in order 1:05:43.600 --> 1:05:47.560 to meet that demand, those pigs have been brought in 1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:53.400 inside and in raised in confinement. Um. There, there, it's 1:05:53.440 --> 1:05:56.400 it's much it's much easier. You don't have to worry 1:05:56.400 --> 1:05:58.640 about the disease. You don't have to you know, you 1:05:58.680 --> 1:06:01.160 could monitor it and measure it and and move your 1:06:01.160 --> 1:06:06.080 animals of course, yeah, the whole thing. Um. So, so 1:06:06.440 --> 1:06:09.880 when they're in there, they they're not you know, rubbing 1:06:09.960 --> 1:06:13.560 noses or whatever with Ferrell swine, you know, transmitting disease 1:06:13.840 --> 1:06:16.000 out there on the ground or picking up those different 1:06:16.000 --> 1:06:19.080 nematodes or whatever it is. Um, we can get it 1:06:19.080 --> 1:06:22.840 out now. Um. There's kind of a movement to go 1:06:23.000 --> 1:06:29.080 back to more of a free range, pasture fed type 1:06:29.120 --> 1:06:33.560 of of pork, which is you know, kind of a 1:06:33.680 --> 1:06:36.280 kind of a neat thing, I think. But but those 1:06:36.880 --> 1:06:39.440 you know, those diseases are gonna start popping back up. 1:06:39.480 --> 1:06:42.200 You know, we're gonna you're gonna get trick nosis. Um, 1:06:42.360 --> 1:06:45.480 people are gonna get those different things because they're not 1:06:45.520 --> 1:06:49.560 cooking their pork. Um. So that probably incentivizes people, especially 1:06:49.600 --> 1:06:53.920 well to control the wild, to control the Ferrell swine. Sure, yeah, 1:06:54.320 --> 1:06:57.840 you know it increased chance of exposure. Yes, yeah, absolutely, 1:06:59.400 --> 1:07:02.840 you know the US not uh right now, I can't 1:07:02.840 --> 1:07:05.440 remember what nineties some percent of trick noosis cases are 1:07:05.440 --> 1:07:10.040 transmitted through black bear meat. Yeah, yeah, let's way to 1:07:10.040 --> 1:07:14.400 get it out of black bears. No. No, So that's that, 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.320 you know, those disease issues or a reason that we 1:07:17.320 --> 1:07:20.000 we often get the get the question why don't you 1:07:20.000 --> 1:07:23.480 guys donate the meat? Um. You know, there's a number 1:07:23.520 --> 1:07:26.240 of reasons we don't donate donate the meat of the 1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:30.640 of the hogs that that we capture. Um. Number one 1:07:30.640 --> 1:07:33.360 is a disease issue. You know, we worked for the 1:07:33.400 --> 1:07:39.480 federal government. Could you imagine if we donated uh sure 1:07:39.600 --> 1:07:42.680 to to somebody and they eat up trickon nosis. I mean, 1:07:43.400 --> 1:07:46.280 that's that's that's a nightmare. Plus you don't want to 1:07:46.320 --> 1:07:49.600 be giving people trickon nosis. She whiz. What are the 1:07:49.680 --> 1:07:53.840 handling risks, you know, the each each state game and 1:07:53.880 --> 1:07:56.880 fish puts out handling risks. You know, wear gloves, you know, 1:07:57.080 --> 1:07:59.160 if you have cuts on your hands, and you know, 1:08:00.080 --> 1:08:03.200 wear gloves, don't clean it, wash your hands good afterwards, 1:08:03.480 --> 1:08:06.040 cook your cook your pork thorough if it's if it's 1:08:06.040 --> 1:08:08.200 a wild hog, you know, cooking. I'll kill most all 1:08:08.280 --> 1:08:10.400 this stuff. But a hundred percent of the people are 1:08:10.440 --> 1:08:13.200 not going a hundred percent cook uh cooked at pork. 1:08:13.760 --> 1:08:16.040 Another reason we don't like to to donate them, so 1:08:16.080 --> 1:08:19.719 to speak, is it gives them value. And and once 1:08:19.760 --> 1:08:25.599 someone starts receiving free pork, what's the incentive to get 1:08:25.680 --> 1:08:30.720 rid of that pork or want it gone? You know, No, 1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:33.320 I could see that it would create like earlier talking 1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:37.960 about Mischian confusion, and create Mischian confusion. Yeah. So do 1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:42.040 you feel that you know, I know this is like 1:08:42.080 --> 1:08:45.880 that this is going on all around the country. Um, 1:08:45.920 --> 1:08:51.280 but do you feel that it's plausible that that in 1:08:51.400 --> 1:08:55.799 ten years will be like wow, Uh turns out you know, Missouri, 1:08:55.840 --> 1:08:59.040 for instance, no longer has wild picks. Yeah, so in 1:08:59.040 --> 1:09:02.080 in ten years, I don't know if we'll have wild 1:09:02.080 --> 1:09:07.200 pigs or not, but I will say, um, it's relatively 1:09:07.320 --> 1:09:11.639 new and as you know, ten fifteen years, so they're 1:09:11.720 --> 1:09:15.439 the populations are not as dense as they are in 1:09:15.479 --> 1:09:18.719 other parts of the country. Uh. Once again, the Missouri 1:09:18.760 --> 1:09:21.720 Department of Conservation rolled up their sleeves and said we're 1:09:21.720 --> 1:09:25.839 gonna fix this, and they've put the resources in into 1:09:25.920 --> 1:09:30.880 fixing that. And I believe our population, even within this 1:09:31.160 --> 1:09:35.000 short infancy of the program is starting to shrink. So 1:09:35.280 --> 1:09:37.200 what's gonna happen in ten years, I can't tell you, 1:09:37.240 --> 1:09:39.719 but I know that we're doing good in the areas 1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:43.160 that we're working. They're getting harder to find. Um, we're 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:47.800 we're getting more opposition from the people who want them, 1:09:47.920 --> 1:09:50.519 which is in my mind a good thing because they're going, 1:09:50.680 --> 1:09:53.439 oh oh, you know, it's it's harder for them to 1:09:53.520 --> 1:09:55.599 hunt them. They're not able to do what they have 1:09:55.720 --> 1:09:58.400 and move them and transport them and and all those 1:09:58.439 --> 1:10:01.400 things they've done for uh, you know, untouched for the 1:10:01.479 --> 1:10:05.400 last ten years. So um, yeah, I think I think 1:10:05.400 --> 1:10:09.240 in ten years are our six elimination areas are gonna 1:10:09.439 --> 1:10:14.200 or maybe four elimination areas. Yeah, how much is all 1:10:14.240 --> 1:10:17.800 this costing everybody. I mean, like these decisions by people 1:10:17.920 --> 1:10:20.759 to take these you know, decisions by people to break 1:10:20.800 --> 1:10:27.280 the law and cut loose Ferrell swine right winds up 1:10:27.320 --> 1:10:31.040 being sort of an enormous burden on people. So, um, 1:10:31.160 --> 1:10:35.720 the starter say that the starter money was from the 1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:39.760 aphis uh Ferrell Swine Initiative, and it was to the 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:44.240 tune of twenty million dollars. And so that has been 1:10:44.280 --> 1:10:47.679 like I said, uh, seed money or starter money. Each 1:10:48.040 --> 1:10:50.679 each state runs a little bit of different program depending 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:53.360 on on how how the state wants it handles or 1:10:53.360 --> 1:10:57.479 what they do. But so starter money was twenty million. 1:10:57.960 --> 1:11:02.160 Now people have to heloped cooperative relationships like we have 1:11:02.280 --> 1:11:05.599 in Missouri. Um, you know, the Mark Twain National Force 1:11:05.680 --> 1:11:09.920 puts in a lot of money. Um, Missouri State Parks, Um, 1:11:10.040 --> 1:11:13.000 like I said, the Missouri Department of Conservation, Army, Corps 1:11:13.000 --> 1:11:16.839 of Engineers. They're all throwing money into a pot for 1:11:17.280 --> 1:11:19.960 uh the U s d A APHIST wildlife services to 1:11:20.040 --> 1:11:23.439 higher trappers and and do that work. So you know, 1:11:23.880 --> 1:11:28.400 all across the state, just you know, just governmental agencies. 1:11:28.479 --> 1:11:31.799 There's no talents to the multi multi multimillions of dollars 1:11:31.840 --> 1:11:35.360 not to mention the private um people who are doing 1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:38.280 those types of things. You know. So I remember years 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:40.880 ago looking at a map of the US and it 1:11:40.960 --> 1:11:48.040 showed where you could raise cattle without supplemental feeding. And 1:11:48.080 --> 1:11:53.759 it was surprising, surprisingly the places you can't raise cattle 1:11:53.760 --> 1:11:56.880 about supplemental feeding. Have you ever seen a map? Has 1:11:56.920 --> 1:11:59.160 they one drawn up a map of where is it 1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:04.960 possible that wild pigs could get established when you factor 1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:09.360 in climate issues. I have a hard time picturing that 1:12:10.120 --> 1:12:16.080 Northern Wyoming wouldn't phase them, the brutality of that when 1:12:16.080 --> 1:12:19.559 they're in Quebec, you know, they they're they're all in Canada. 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:22.280 It doesn't phase in their toughest nails. That's why there's 1:12:22.320 --> 1:12:28.120 such a bad invasive. Yeah, wouldn't phase them because I've 1:12:28.120 --> 1:12:30.800 seen pictures of them in in you know, in Siberia, 1:12:31.680 --> 1:12:34.559 in the running around the snow, which looks crazy. Yeah, 1:12:34.880 --> 1:12:40.559 you feel like the Wyomings I remember, I remember that 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:44.479 Colorado feels it's plausible. I think they've already had it 1:12:44.600 --> 1:12:47.880 in there. Yeah, But there's there's a difference, and maybe 1:12:47.880 --> 1:12:50.240 you can speak to this, maybe Parker speak this, because 1:12:50.280 --> 1:12:53.799 there's a difference like the Michigan ones, the Michigan cases 1:12:53.880 --> 1:12:55.880 might not be in these like isolated cases where some 1:12:55.920 --> 1:12:58.160 guys running some little fake hunting place where you go 1:12:58.200 --> 1:13:01.479 and pretend that you're hunting a pig and he gets 1:13:01.479 --> 1:13:04.640 some escape, like he doesn't get away. So I was like, 1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:07.800 oh my god, Michigan's got wild pigs. But it's kind 1:13:07.800 --> 1:13:12.519 of like very isolated gets mopped up pretty quickly, you know. 1:13:12.600 --> 1:13:16.040 It's not sort of this where you just have these 1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:20.800 populations that are naturally reproducing going on for many generations, 1:13:20.840 --> 1:13:24.800 spreading around. You just get these like isolated blips. And 1:13:24.920 --> 1:13:30.200 so yeah, I have I don't know, I'm not like 1:13:30.200 --> 1:13:33.240 a pig wild pig guy. I'm not. I've enjoyed hunting 1:13:33.240 --> 1:13:36.160 them in quite a number of locations, but yeah, it's 1:13:36.200 --> 1:13:40.240 hard for me to picture that. In Wyoming, it's open country, 1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:45.800 tons of snow, extremely cold. Uh, it's just hard for 1:13:45.840 --> 1:13:48.560 me to picture that you would that that it's possible 1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:52.640 that a that a sounder would get a foothold and 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:55.720 start naturally reproducing and not just be well it was 1:13:55.760 --> 1:13:59.200 wiped out. What's the question, can you wipe him out? 1:13:59.280 --> 1:14:01.800 Or could they live there? Yeah? You're right, I could. 1:14:01.840 --> 1:14:05.280 I did. I asked two different things. Sure, sure, you know. 1:14:05.400 --> 1:14:09.560 So the northern Wyoming I have never been there. Um, 1:14:09.600 --> 1:14:13.280 I'm guessing it's open, a lot of rolling prairie. I 1:14:13.600 --> 1:14:18.120 don't know. Aerial gunning would be extremely extremely effective and 1:14:18.120 --> 1:14:22.680 and yeah, it would be so easy to eliminate. But 1:14:22.960 --> 1:14:26.439 I could live there, I perfectly fine. Yeah, yeah, as 1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:29.599 evidence by the fact, like I said, they come from Siberia, right, 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:32.320 you know, I I know they uh, my counterpart in 1:14:32.320 --> 1:14:35.479 North Dakota. Um, they do Farrell swine work coming in 1:14:35.520 --> 1:14:39.479 from Canada. Yeah, it's coming from the north, yeah, coming. Yeah, 1:14:39.479 --> 1:14:43.040 the influx is from the north. North Dakota gets Farrell 1:14:43.120 --> 1:14:50.439 pigs coming from the Yeah, yeah really yeah. What are 1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:54.320 they doing up there? Some money put them there? What 1:14:54.360 --> 1:15:02.600 are they eating? They're pigs only anything, you know, roots, tubers, eggs, 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:10.080 you know whatever, wild pigs, international borders. Sure, yeah, huh, 1:15:10.120 --> 1:15:12.760 all right. That answers that question regularly. So that's how 1:15:12.800 --> 1:15:16.280 we're gonna give him in Montana too, right next door. 1:15:16.840 --> 1:15:18.640 So you keep tabs on kind of what's going on 1:15:18.720 --> 1:15:21.200 in the whole country, Well, no, I don't care. I 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:22.920 I know what's going on, you know, just by my 1:15:22.960 --> 1:15:26.439 counterparts in the projects they're do when Yeah, So in 1:15:26.479 --> 1:15:28.559 the States, I only know one for sure, I think 1:15:28.560 --> 1:15:31.360 on top of my head. But like Indiana has outlawed 1:15:31.800 --> 1:15:34.719 the hunting of the pigs. Do they feel over there 1:15:34.760 --> 1:15:40.599 like that's working for him? They do? And it states 1:15:40.680 --> 1:15:46.200 that outlaw hunting have recognized that hunting is and I 1:15:46.720 --> 1:15:49.160 wish there was a different word than hunting. I don't 1:15:49.160 --> 1:15:54.480 even like to say hunting, but it's pursuit of barnyard 1:15:54.520 --> 1:16:01.120 animals eyes, I don't know. Yeah, they've recognized as that 1:16:01.600 --> 1:16:04.920 is what exacerbates the problem. That's why they're there, that's 1:16:04.920 --> 1:16:07.439 why people move them, that's what they want to do. Now, 1:16:07.720 --> 1:16:10.080 those states that don't have that culture, they can go 1:16:10.160 --> 1:16:12.719 we've banned wild hog hunt. Everybody goes, all right, whatever, 1:16:12.840 --> 1:16:14.960 we don't know what you're talking about, you know. So 1:16:15.360 --> 1:16:19.960 it's it's a very effective way to um get some 1:16:20.600 --> 1:16:26.240 really important legislation introduced. Everyone I know that used to 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:28.720 move fish around from lake to lake and river the river, 1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:34.080 if you told them it was illegal to fish that species, 1:16:34.120 --> 1:16:35.840 to fish in that lake, even though it didn't have 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:38.960 it yet, they would have been completely de incentivized. Of course, 1:16:39.280 --> 1:16:42.000 to dump them in there. What would you do it? Sure? 1:16:42.680 --> 1:16:45.240 Unless someone's like, I'm just a rule breaker anyway, man, 1:16:45.280 --> 1:16:47.639 and a rule breaker. I'll break the rule of putting 1:16:47.680 --> 1:16:49.840 them there, and then I'll break the rule of hunting them. Yeah. 1:16:49.840 --> 1:16:51.400 It goes back to the public land saying if you 1:16:51.479 --> 1:16:54.720 got a bucket full of whatever fish and that guy's like, 1:16:54.800 --> 1:16:57.720 don't ever come to my pond. And this neighbor over 1:16:57.760 --> 1:17:01.360 here says, everybody can fish right in pond. Man, you 1:17:01.400 --> 1:17:12.679 know same thing. Where are you gonna go next? Where 1:17:12.680 --> 1:17:16.439 am I gonna go next? I'm going home to finish 1:17:16.439 --> 1:17:19.759 my turkey season. No, but I mean what's your next? 1:17:19.960 --> 1:17:22.880 Like what like in a career, Like, here's what happens next? 1:17:23.120 --> 1:17:28.120 You did New Hampshire, Florida. Yeah, yeah, No, I'm I'm 1:17:28.160 --> 1:17:30.960 digging Missouri. I'm I'm I'm pretty mad at the pigs 1:17:31.040 --> 1:17:34.160 right now. So um, we'll stick it out here while 1:17:34.160 --> 1:17:36.080 and see what happens. And how many guys do you 1:17:36.120 --> 1:17:38.200 have out right now? Not right now, but I mean 1:17:38.200 --> 1:17:40.760 how many guys are working the pig problem? So like 1:17:40.920 --> 1:17:43.720 we go back to the partnership we and it's uh, 1:17:43.920 --> 1:17:46.639 it's being looked at nationally as a as a good 1:17:46.720 --> 1:17:51.840 model on on how to eliminate Ferrell swine and uh, 1:17:51.920 --> 1:17:55.960 those different agencies, about half of them actively have people 1:17:56.160 --> 1:18:00.200 out on the ground doing doing a hog trapping and 1:18:00.360 --> 1:18:05.200 we work together seamlessly. M d C, UH Jury Partment, Conservation, 1:18:05.320 --> 1:18:07.759 U S, d eph IS, Wildlife Service, Mark Twain, National 1:18:07.800 --> 1:18:11.000 Forest Army Corps engineers. All those trappers know each other, 1:18:11.120 --> 1:18:14.920 they're all communication. They're working around. So I, you know, 1:18:15.439 --> 1:18:19.799 I have twenty five or so going in in MDC. 1:18:20.080 --> 1:18:22.600 Has however many they have in Mark Twain. So you 1:18:22.640 --> 1:18:27.280 know as far as people doing actual trapping in the state, 1:18:28.160 --> 1:18:31.720 there's quite a few. So you have twenty five trappers 1:18:31.800 --> 1:18:37.479 right now. What's a good year for those guys? Uh? Good? 1:18:37.479 --> 1:18:39.240 I guess to get bad the higher the numbers to 1:18:39.280 --> 1:18:42.000 be the worst year. But let me so you got 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:44.280 one guy, you got one guy. If they kill three pigs, 1:18:44.320 --> 1:18:47.479 they're they're high five and going to get beers because hey, 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:49.519 they killed three pigs out of ten and thirty percent 1:18:49.560 --> 1:18:52.000 of the population. The other guy and they cross the 1:18:52.040 --> 1:18:55.360 state kill six hundred. Uh, he has no idea, you know, 1:18:55.439 --> 1:18:58.320 he's just he's just working as hard as you can. So, yeah, 1:18:58.360 --> 1:19:01.040 it depends on where you are. Man. You know, hey, 1:19:01.080 --> 1:19:04.280 there's there's legendary pigs. Hey, we finally got her, We 1:19:04.320 --> 1:19:08.120 finally did and the word spreads, you know, like some 1:19:08.240 --> 1:19:12.599 female y like like how long has she been a legend? 1:19:14.600 --> 1:19:17.559 You know, cople years you know, and and um, you 1:19:17.560 --> 1:19:20.719 know you you you'd kill her offspring and she'd still 1:19:20.760 --> 1:19:23.240 be knocking around, you know, and you can't shoot or 1:19:23.280 --> 1:19:26.479 can't tramp her. Yeah, yeah, super super smart. And then 1:19:26.520 --> 1:19:29.920 finally you get her, you know, and it's yeah, and 1:19:29.960 --> 1:19:33.360 once you get them, you know, you got them. And 1:19:33.360 --> 1:19:36.280 and that's that's why it's so important not to just 1:19:36.400 --> 1:19:40.400 remove a few, because of the fecundity of hawks. Man, 1:19:40.439 --> 1:19:42.680 you gotta get them all, and you've gotta be relentless, 1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:47.680 and you gotta stay on them. And you know, of 1:19:47.720 --> 1:19:51.599 our effort goes into five percent of the population, it's 1:19:51.640 --> 1:19:54.920 not last five percent. That's the same thing. Remember when 1:19:54.920 --> 1:19:57.720 Steve Kendron was talking about getting rid of those nutrients. Yeah, 1:19:57.760 --> 1:19:59.439 same things, Like, man, it was easy to get the 1:19:59.479 --> 1:20:02.680 first ninety five p cent, but man, the last five percent. Man, 1:20:02.720 --> 1:20:07.000 they had to come up with all kinds of different techniques. Yeah. Yeah, 1:20:07.080 --> 1:20:09.439 people are talking about off the wall stuff, and you're 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:13.800 gonna try it, try it, yeah, Yeah, we gotta get her. 1:20:14.000 --> 1:20:16.320 What's like one of the most off the wall strategies 1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:18.200 you can think of that someone used to get a pig. 1:20:18.520 --> 1:20:22.840 I don't. There's been all sort of bait, lure, a 1:20:22.960 --> 1:20:28.400 tracting concoctions made up. Um, they're generally they're killed by 1:20:28.520 --> 1:20:34.360 night shooting and and generally it's the guys that make 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:40.599 the decision I'm going nocturnal and I'm not. I'm not 1:20:41.400 --> 1:20:43.800 going to see the light of day. And until I do, 1:20:43.920 --> 1:20:46.120 and they stay up all night and they just become 1:20:46.120 --> 1:20:49.360 the night predators, you know, and those guys are the 1:20:49.680 --> 1:20:52.799 it becomes personal with them. You know, it's like I've 1:20:52.840 --> 1:20:56.080 been after this animal for you know, and wanting to 1:20:56.080 --> 1:20:59.000 do a good job. And and some of our people 1:20:59.000 --> 1:21:02.760 are so super dedicated and generally that's generally that's what 1:21:02.840 --> 1:21:06.000 gets in the nocturnal you know, guys being able to 1:21:06.080 --> 1:21:08.599 scratch area off the map, scratch it off the map. 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:12.200 There's something to be said for that. You know, Hey, 1:21:12.200 --> 1:21:15.160 that that dot's gone. Now are that blobs gone? And 1:21:15.200 --> 1:21:19.719 the blobs are shrinking and we're doing uh, we're doing 1:21:19.760 --> 1:21:24.040 stuff statewide and and and the feedback you get from 1:21:24.080 --> 1:21:28.840 the from the landowners. Man, it's just it's awesome be 1:21:28.920 --> 1:21:32.200 able to help them with that problem. Can I see 1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:35.080 something has nothing to do with pigs. Yeah, you're saying 1:21:35.080 --> 1:21:39.240 that you grew up along a segue into it because 1:21:39.240 --> 1:21:42.920 you grew up with pig dogs. Oh yeah, yeah, I did. 1:21:43.000 --> 1:21:45.320 I but that's not that's not a tool. That's not 1:21:45.400 --> 1:21:49.160 an effective tool to even use in these situations. I 1:21:49.280 --> 1:21:54.240 say this, Uh, hogdogs are the most efficient way to 1:21:54.320 --> 1:21:56.760 wake up in the morning and say I'm gonna go 1:21:56.800 --> 1:21:59.880 catch one pig. Now. If you show me a pig 1:22:00.000 --> 1:22:02.840 dog that can catch sixty two, it once by guy, 1:22:03.439 --> 1:22:06.080 I'm singing the singing the song of the dog dogs. 1:22:06.120 --> 1:22:07.720 But but no, but even when you got it down 1:22:07.800 --> 1:22:10.880 to that one, that's if you were looking at it like, 1:22:10.960 --> 1:22:13.519 that's not really the way to go about it in Missouri. 1:22:13.600 --> 1:22:16.639 That's that's something that that we've decided not to do. 1:22:17.080 --> 1:22:20.680 In in other areas, they do utilize that too, And 1:22:20.680 --> 1:22:23.880 it can be effective when you got one. You can 1:22:23.960 --> 1:22:26.800 when you're down to the last one, right, you can 1:22:26.920 --> 1:22:30.519 use it. So but you al said you grew up 1:22:30.520 --> 1:22:36.160 with squirrel dogs. Yeah, and then you imported squirrel dog technology. 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:38.680 I did and do a place that isn't using it 1:22:38.880 --> 1:22:42.840 right and and it is. Um, I'm did you bring 1:22:42.880 --> 1:22:45.920 your squirrel dogs in New Hampshire? No, I call them 1:22:45.920 --> 1:22:48.519 by surprise. They have those you probably know about the 1:22:48.600 --> 1:22:51.719 red squirrels. Man, like, those things are no good. They're 1:22:51.760 --> 1:22:55.880 red squirrels, and yeah, pine squirrels. You wouldn't want to 1:22:55.880 --> 1:22:58.479 take a good Southern squirrel dog on a red squirrel. 1:22:58.560 --> 1:23:03.200 So we stayed. Wife. You know, they you can eat them. 1:23:03.320 --> 1:23:06.160 People say they, you know, tastes like turpentine or whatnot 1:23:06.200 --> 1:23:08.320 because they eats a lot of pine. It's just it's 1:23:08.360 --> 1:23:10.360 just it's basically it's a squirrel that just happens to 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:15.800 be very small. Yeah, it's just a small squirrel are Yeah, 1:23:15.840 --> 1:23:17.639 but there are guys in Alaska that will go out 1:23:17.640 --> 1:23:20.800 in the winter and hunt pine squirrels to eat. Pine 1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:25.960 squirrels have at times had fir market value. So there's 1:23:26.000 --> 1:23:30.360 been times when um for paintbrush and other usages when 1:23:30.520 --> 1:23:32.400 you could get like a buck for a pine squirrel. 1:23:32.640 --> 1:23:34.719 And there'll be guys, you know in the old days, 1:23:34.880 --> 1:23:37.760 not the old old days, but you know during the night, 1:23:37.800 --> 1:23:40.479 you know period during the ninet hundreds when they're worth 1:23:40.479 --> 1:23:42.759 a buck of peace and people go stack up hundreds 1:23:42.760 --> 1:23:46.120 of them. That's good money and make money on buck 1:23:46.160 --> 1:23:49.800 of peace pine squirrels. But food wise, even where I 1:23:49.840 --> 1:23:51.919 grew up, when you if you were out hunting squirrels, 1:23:51.920 --> 1:23:55.280 we hunted gray squirrels and fox squirrels. You would when 1:23:55.280 --> 1:23:56.880 you saw a pine squre you wouldn't go after it. 1:23:56.920 --> 1:23:59.639 But they'd be intermixed, you know. Yeah, Yeah, I don't 1:23:59.640 --> 1:24:03.040 know the out would differentiate between. I don't know how 1:24:03.080 --> 1:24:05.760 they'd respond to it. I don't know either. But you 1:24:05.800 --> 1:24:08.479 know the pine squirrels are feisty. Yeah, like they prey 1:24:08.560 --> 1:24:14.040 on snowshoot hair leveretts. Yeah, they did a mortality study 1:24:14.240 --> 1:24:19.160 on snowshoet hairs and I think they found that uh 1:24:19.280 --> 1:24:21.639 of the twenty like they of the ones they lost, 1:24:21.640 --> 1:24:24.240 they found twenty seven of them or some. I'm sorry 1:24:24.600 --> 1:24:26.559 they did this mortality start. You know, the ones they 1:24:26.560 --> 1:24:30.360 were able to put tracking devices on, percent of them 1:24:30.360 --> 1:24:33.759 turned up in snow in uh, squirrel middens, pine squirrel middens. 1:24:34.360 --> 1:24:38.880 They hammer them. I did not know that. Yeah, bird eggs, 1:24:39.520 --> 1:24:43.120 snowshoet hair, babies, all kinds of stuff. They're Yeah, they're 1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:45.160 they're kind of like a c. I think them as 1:24:45.200 --> 1:24:47.240 a cross almost between like a mink and a squirrel, 1:24:48.120 --> 1:24:50.920 like in their sort of ferocity and then the beep 1:24:50.920 --> 1:24:53.880 and chirping they do. Yeah, yeah, they'll come get right 1:24:53.880 --> 1:24:55.960 in your face. Yea they do. Yeah, they'll come right 1:24:56.000 --> 1:24:59.160 down and get in your face and get in your house. Yeah, 1:24:59.240 --> 1:25:02.479 there's a whole They a different temperament man. Yeah, they're 1:25:02.479 --> 1:25:04.479 not kind of they're kind of like electric with energy, 1:25:04.479 --> 1:25:08.040 you know, not as majestic as a gray squirrel. Well, no, 1:25:08.240 --> 1:25:13.360 not as majestic. But tell me about bringing so you 1:25:13.479 --> 1:25:18.880 in Georgia. M hmm. Everybody has a squirrel dog, you're saying, Yeah, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, 1:25:18.920 --> 1:25:21.599 you know, East Tennessee. There's a lot, you know, a 1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:25.000 lot more squirrel hunting with dogs that goes on there. 1:25:25.080 --> 1:25:27.880 I think squirrel hunt is probably pretty common, um, all 1:25:27.960 --> 1:25:30.160 up and down the east coast, you know where the 1:25:30.200 --> 1:25:33.400 gray squirrels are, But not with dogs, not with dogs 1:25:33.439 --> 1:25:38.439 so much. Bring squirrel dogs. Yeah, so you make a 1:25:38.439 --> 1:25:40.640 lot of friends, man when you bring squirrel dogs in 1:25:40.680 --> 1:25:42.639 Missouri because people want to go hunt with you. Oh yeah, 1:25:42.640 --> 1:25:44.519 it's great fun. But are the squirrel is not used 1:25:44.520 --> 1:25:47.519 to it? Like, did you find a difference, Like, Man, 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:54.200 these squirrels are just not expecting this. So the squirrels 1:25:54.200 --> 1:25:58.760 are responding to the dogs the same here than they 1:25:58.800 --> 1:26:02.200 do where they've had many, many years exposure to dogs. 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:04.559 I don't know that they know it's a dog or 1:26:04.560 --> 1:26:07.160 a fox or a kaya. They just know that it's 1:26:07.200 --> 1:26:08.680 something that could eat them and they want to get 1:26:08.720 --> 1:26:11.720 away from it. So it wasn't like the It wasn't 1:26:11.760 --> 1:26:13.320 like the Land of Milk and honey when you first 1:26:13.360 --> 1:26:15.800 showed up with your dogs. Well, it's the land and 1:26:15.840 --> 1:26:18.320 milk of milk and honey. And as much as there's 1:26:18.360 --> 1:26:21.920 a lot more fox squirrels in Missouri than than in 1:26:22.120 --> 1:26:26.840 Alabama or or or Georgia, eastern grays mostly yeah, some 1:26:26.880 --> 1:26:29.719 of those big southern fox squirrels. We call them cat squirrels, 1:26:29.720 --> 1:26:33.880 you know, those great big ones. You know, all varied colors. Uh. Well, 1:26:34.240 --> 1:26:37.479 the fox girls here mostly red, and they seem to 1:26:37.520 --> 1:26:39.680 be I don't know if they're not as intelligent as 1:26:39.680 --> 1:26:41.599 the gray squirrels. And they sit out where the dogs 1:26:41.640 --> 1:26:44.200 can can see them. Man, And they hang their tail 1:26:44.280 --> 1:26:48.280 down like a flag and it and it drives the 1:26:48.439 --> 1:26:51.160 dogs nuts. Yeah, yeah, they can see them, so I man, 1:26:51.200 --> 1:26:53.040 and never thought, have you ever thought that like a 1:26:53.160 --> 1:26:58.800 like a sort of like this difference between grays and 1:26:58.880 --> 1:27:04.840 fox squirrels was delicate on that there's a difference. There's 1:27:04.840 --> 1:27:09.960 a distinct difference of cagness, of cag nous. Now it 1:27:10.360 --> 1:27:12.840 I know that, like the micro habitats they like are 1:27:12.880 --> 1:27:16.840 different for sure. Then there's areas I've hunted where it's 1:27:16.880 --> 1:27:19.880 all one. There's areas of hunter where it's all the other. 1:27:20.280 --> 1:27:23.640 But where I grew up there was intermixed. And it 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:26.280 might be that down in the ravine bottom or whatever. 1:27:26.320 --> 1:27:28.200 You get down there and it would be a lot 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:31.640 of grays down in there. Then an up top, you know, 1:27:31.680 --> 1:27:33.720 open the beach trees up top, you see a lot 1:27:33.760 --> 1:27:36.960 of fox squirrels, But you wouldn't think anything of looking 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:39.360 up tree and seeing one to each. And I've never 1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:43.160 detected like that one was. I used to think we 1:27:43.280 --> 1:27:46.720 like the fox girls better because they're huge, and the 1:27:46.760 --> 1:27:49.599 gray squirrels at times we like them better because they're 1:27:49.600 --> 1:27:52.240 more of a novelty. But over my life gray squirrels 1:27:52.240 --> 1:27:56.240 became far more prevalent. You could, I don't I have 1:27:56.280 --> 1:27:59.439 no idea what that's attributed to why you just watch 1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:03.120 that shift t happened to become in that area where 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:05.679 I grew up to become like not nearly the fox squirrels, 1:28:05.720 --> 1:28:08.160 as we had great squirrels. And I don't think it's 1:28:08.160 --> 1:28:13.560 just because people were selective pressure from hunting something that 1:28:13.640 --> 1:28:17.559 has no I don't think it's very very negligible on 1:28:17.640 --> 1:28:20.400 squirrel populations if any. But up here you're hunting where 1:28:20.400 --> 1:28:23.120 people aren't hitting them hard though, right yeah, you know, 1:28:23.240 --> 1:28:27.160 I Um, I hunt and have never seen another squirrel 1:28:27.400 --> 1:28:30.599 hunter in there. I don't know that. I think parts 1:28:30.600 --> 1:28:33.120 of the state people people hunt them a little bit. 1:28:33.160 --> 1:28:36.160 But where I am in central Missouri, I've never seen 1:28:37.280 --> 1:28:40.679 another squirrel hunter, let alone a dog squirrel hunter. Now 1:28:40.960 --> 1:28:44.240 you have got you public on public land, both public 1:28:44.320 --> 1:28:47.519 and private. You know what's a good day? Um, a 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:51.559 good day. I think our best day this year was 1:28:51.680 --> 1:28:57.519 maybe eighteen or so. How do you guys cook them? Well? 1:28:57.760 --> 1:29:01.040 I killed two hundred and eleven this year and so 1:29:01.240 --> 1:29:05.200 I've cooked them every way I can. My wife has 1:29:05.720 --> 1:29:10.240 had it with me and squirrel meat. Um, she's done. 1:29:10.439 --> 1:29:13.320 And you know, my my my children, Grace and Brodie, 1:29:13.320 --> 1:29:15.160 they got the twenty gauges and they following around to 1:29:15.160 --> 1:29:16.960 do a great job. But like I told you, guys, 1:29:17.000 --> 1:29:21.400 I've eaten a lot of lead shot this year, a lot. Uh. 1:29:21.720 --> 1:29:23.280 You're waiting for the kids to get old enough to 1:29:23.320 --> 1:29:26.880 be I am. I am. And when your wife bites 1:29:26.960 --> 1:29:29.760 down into the into the number six, it's not kind. 1:29:29.880 --> 1:29:31.519 When you do, you buy, then spit it out and 1:29:31.560 --> 1:29:35.040 go shot. You know she looks at you. You got 1:29:35.040 --> 1:29:39.679 to kiss the Yeah, yeah, mama gives you the evil look. 1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:42.680 So yeah, but unlead, it's not bad. It's like, you know, 1:29:43.360 --> 1:29:46.160 I know half people I know have lost teeth busts 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:48.639 of teeth on steel shot. Lead. You know you don't 1:29:48.680 --> 1:29:50.200 want to be eating it, but it's not It's not 1:29:50.240 --> 1:29:52.920 as horrible for your teeth as it is eating waterfowl. Right, 1:29:53.280 --> 1:29:57.439 but what you guys fry it? Yeah, we fry it. Yeah, 1:29:57.479 --> 1:30:01.240 we cook it down and pick it. Um man, you 1:30:01.360 --> 1:30:09.400 name it. Make gumbo, uh, jambalaya. We make everything barbecue. Oh, 1:30:09.439 --> 1:30:13.080 sure of course you have barbecue. Yeah, you have two 1:30:13.160 --> 1:30:16.080 hundred squirrels in the freezer. You're coming up with different 1:30:16.479 --> 1:30:18.679 ways to cook them. And it's what are your kids 1:30:18.680 --> 1:30:22.840 feelings about it? As far as eating it? The Scarford 1:30:22.840 --> 1:30:27.080 down taking my little girl Grace. She she knocks it down. 1:30:27.320 --> 1:30:29.160 They love it. I think it's one of the most 1:30:29.320 --> 1:30:34.120 underrated meats. Dude in the woods. It's delicious and no, 1:30:34.280 --> 1:30:37.400 there's no one who eats it. When it's properly prepared delicious, 1:30:37.479 --> 1:30:40.719 people are blown away by it. Sure have you, suevi 1:30:40.760 --> 1:30:45.200 et any No, might be honest something maybe, So I'm 1:30:45.200 --> 1:30:48.840 gonna send Parker on airy membership to the Rocky Mountain 1:30:48.840 --> 1:30:52.080 Squirrel Foundation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta start. You have 1:30:52.240 --> 1:30:56.760 to start the Eastern branch of the Rocky Mountain Squirrel Foundation. Yeah. 1:30:56.960 --> 1:31:00.160 Do you do you like the fox squirrels or when 1:31:00.200 --> 1:31:01.920 you go out and hunt them if you shoot a 1:31:01.920 --> 1:31:04.360 couple of each, like stoke that you got a few 1:31:04.439 --> 1:31:09.160 fox squirrels. I want the gray squirrel. No, I like 1:31:09.240 --> 1:31:13.720 the gray squirrels eating the dogs. The dogs like the 1:31:13.720 --> 1:31:16.360 fox squirrels. If you think a gray squirrel eats better 1:31:16.400 --> 1:31:20.040 than fox squirrel? Oh yeah, oh for sure. Yeah, you 1:31:20.040 --> 1:31:25.559 guys don't because you can't enough. You can't argue the size, man, 1:31:25.840 --> 1:31:28.600 what what are I know? But the flavor and the 1:31:28.720 --> 1:31:33.760 toughness issue. I think, huh, that's another question for you 1:31:33.800 --> 1:31:35.960 because what I've been starting to do, uh is I'll 1:31:35.960 --> 1:31:38.120 try to grade them, which I think from what I 1:31:38.160 --> 1:31:40.160 think are young squirrels. And if I have a pile, 1:31:40.479 --> 1:31:42.200 I mean I only have three, then whatever, they're all 1:31:42.200 --> 1:31:44.720 going the same bag. But if I've got ten, I'll 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:46.840 be like, all right, those are like the four old 1:31:46.920 --> 1:31:50.040 tough bastards with you know, nuts as big as your thumb. 1:31:50.320 --> 1:31:52.559 Those are going into the crock pot. And then I'll 1:31:52.560 --> 1:31:54.360 try to be like, all right, those are looking younger, 1:31:55.000 --> 1:31:56.720 and I'll cook them hole on the grill and they 1:31:56.720 --> 1:31:59.600 can be eating that way. I'd almost trade you a 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:05.200 man of head shot young gray squirrels for almost anything 1:32:05.280 --> 1:32:08.320 else in the woods. I mean it's those are the 1:32:08.320 --> 1:32:14.800 primo those other stuff to receive those sure, Oh yeah, 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:19.360 what you here a turkey breast? Um? Yeah, probably a 1:32:19.400 --> 1:32:23.240 turkey breast. I checked a turkey breast furl for a 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:30.320 limit of head shot gray. I'm just saying with the chef, 1:32:30.680 --> 1:32:34.080 uh are you with the chef? Jamie Oliver English kid, 1:32:34.200 --> 1:32:36.720 I'm not kid. I don't know how old he is. Well, 1:32:36.720 --> 1:32:39.599 he just got this marinade some recipe book I had 1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:42.360 of his. He's got this marinade where it's like lemon 1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:47.320 and thyme and pulped up time and lemon juice and 1:32:47.840 --> 1:32:50.759 olive oil and whatnot. But I started it was taking 1:32:50.760 --> 1:32:56.160 the squirrels and taking a fork, so so skin and 1:32:56.200 --> 1:32:58.920 squirrel right, piece it out, and then take a fork 1:32:59.000 --> 1:33:01.479 in that back leg. I would jab that fork, yeah, 1:33:02.520 --> 1:33:07.639 times in that back leg, just completely perforate because once 1:33:07.640 --> 1:33:09.439 you're eating you never know that. Like it's not like 1:33:09.479 --> 1:33:12.800 it's full of holes, right, it comes back together perforated 1:33:12.880 --> 1:33:15.320 a bunch of times. And then take the back the 1:33:15.360 --> 1:33:18.800 backstraps and prick them a ton of times, and then 1:33:18.880 --> 1:33:22.640 marinate them and just cook them on a grill. It's unbeatable, 1:33:22.800 --> 1:33:25.040 so nothing like slow cooking. Just cook him on a 1:33:25.040 --> 1:33:27.640 grill and then and then eat the meat off. That 1:33:27.720 --> 1:33:29.760 was I've never done a fox squirrel like that though. 1:33:29.920 --> 1:33:33.920 You need to and then report back. Yeah, because once 1:33:33.960 --> 1:33:36.840 I got onto doing that recipe, I was only in 1:33:36.880 --> 1:33:41.120 gray squirrel areas. Yeah, because I was doing that when 1:33:41.160 --> 1:33:43.080 I was hunting in New York State. In New York State, 1:33:44.200 --> 1:33:49.400 a lot of Eastern grays. Yeah, you have no Western grays? 1:33:49.520 --> 1:33:52.720 Are you a step on the tail and uh, yank 1:33:52.800 --> 1:33:56.880 them off? Skinning tail skin No, I don't any from 1:33:56.920 --> 1:33:59.720 the American South. I am. I know a lot of 1:33:59.720 --> 1:34:02.920 guys who do. I um do the pants and shirt 1:34:03.040 --> 1:34:06.000 you yetta do the passing shirt. But I think as 1:34:06.040 --> 1:34:08.559 I get older and my strength goes, I'm gonna have 1:34:08.600 --> 1:34:11.800 to tail skin. But I pass and shirt him. I can. 1:34:11.840 --> 1:34:13.640 I can go right there them pretty good. And you 1:34:13.720 --> 1:34:16.479 use a fights to a cur dog. Um, I use 1:34:16.640 --> 1:34:21.320 a cur dog. It's a smaller cur um. Just one dog. 1:34:21.800 --> 1:34:24.400 I just have one dog. Now. I have some friends 1:34:24.439 --> 1:34:28.639 who I've introduced into it that we hunt together. So 1:34:29.240 --> 1:34:31.960 they're getting dogs too. Oh yeah, there, it's it's total. 1:34:32.720 --> 1:34:35.120 And I was telling my friends at the Department of 1:34:35.160 --> 1:34:39.880 Conservation that there's the three squirrel dog man. Now I'm 1:34:39.880 --> 1:34:41.760 sure there's others. I just don't know him, you know, 1:34:42.760 --> 1:34:46.240 in Missouri. And I'm coming for him to extend the season, yeah, 1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:49.280 a little bit longer. So do you think you're gonna 1:34:49.320 --> 1:34:53.599 grow to regret introducing that piece of technology and not 1:34:53.640 --> 1:34:55.600 just keeping quiet about it? Of course not. And you 1:34:55.640 --> 1:35:02.479 know why? It's the kids. It's great grea eight kid hunt. 1:35:02.720 --> 1:35:04.760 I mean you don't have to be quiet. You can 1:35:04.840 --> 1:35:08.519 walk around, you can teach them, uh gun control, walking 1:35:08.560 --> 1:35:13.200 through the woods, crossing fences, um, safety, all of those things. 1:35:13.240 --> 1:35:16.439 It's enjoyable. They're not freezing. Their pet is there so 1:35:16.479 --> 1:35:20.680 they get to pet their dog. Um. I got my 1:35:20.760 --> 1:35:23.400 squirrel dog. I grew up doing it and and I 1:35:23.439 --> 1:35:26.759 got it for the children, and it is. I won't 1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:29.880 regret that as a house dog or outside dog. Well, 1:35:31.280 --> 1:35:33.200 I'm ashamed to say. And the people that know me 1:35:33.400 --> 1:35:38.160 are gonna are gonna it. It gets in my wife's bed. 1:35:38.439 --> 1:35:42.400 It follows her around. Now not my bed. We sleep 1:35:42.400 --> 1:35:44.679 in the same bed, but I don't claim it as 1:35:44.720 --> 1:35:47.800 our bed. She Uh, I get that dog out of 1:35:47.800 --> 1:35:51.720 my bed. I've got it. You know. When I am 1:35:51.720 --> 1:35:53.800 going to get a squirrel dog, I went and picked 1:35:53.800 --> 1:35:57.160 it up from a buddy and Alabama that grows them. 1:35:57.400 --> 1:36:02.040 Uh has some nice squirrel dogs. Had a pen built, 1:36:02.160 --> 1:36:04.519 you know, the whole thing ready, nice kennel I thought 1:36:04.640 --> 1:36:07.160 was good. Even put it up off the ground so 1:36:07.280 --> 1:36:10.840 the dog wouldn't be on the gravels. Had a hay bale. 1:36:10.880 --> 1:36:12.280 I was gonna pitts. And that's not been in the 1:36:12.360 --> 1:36:16.439 pen once. Our friend Kevin Murphy is telling me that 1:36:16.520 --> 1:36:19.559 he recently heard of a squirrel dog selling for twenty dollars. 1:36:20.240 --> 1:36:23.559 Al must be a good squirrel doll, you'd like to think. You, Yeah, 1:36:23.600 --> 1:36:27.080 I don't know that I've seen one that good. So 1:36:27.280 --> 1:36:30.320 you just got yours. When you have a squirrel dog, 1:36:32.120 --> 1:36:34.000 what's the minimum out you can hunt it and still 1:36:34.040 --> 1:36:36.920 have it know what's up. I still haven't know how 1:36:36.920 --> 1:36:38.760 to do it. And it depends on the dog. But 1:36:39.680 --> 1:36:41.960 you know, the more you hunt any dog, the better 1:36:42.040 --> 1:36:44.760 it is, for sure. But when you let's say you 1:36:45.240 --> 1:36:47.120 live in a state where you can't hunt squirrels for 1:36:47.120 --> 1:36:50.280 for five months out of the year, you can still 1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:53.160 put them up. Can't you just not shoot him? The 1:36:53.200 --> 1:36:55.519 dog get tired of that? No, it's in I mean, 1:36:55.600 --> 1:36:57.880 it's like a retriever. If that that dog went on 1:36:57.880 --> 1:36:59.639 the floor there, if you took a tennis ball, probably 1:37:00.040 --> 1:37:02.559 you throw till bring it back to you till he died. 1:37:02.800 --> 1:37:04.280 He doesn't know why, He just likes. He just wants 1:37:04.320 --> 1:37:08.400 to do it. So so you can train, you can run, 1:37:08.479 --> 1:37:11.120 You can run squirrels, and if you don't shoot the 1:37:11.120 --> 1:37:12.639 squirrell out of the tree, the dog doesn't get mad. 1:37:12.680 --> 1:37:16.080 He still thinks he had a good time. Oh, loving it. Yeah, Yeah, 1:37:16.240 --> 1:37:18.320 My dog particularly doesn't care to. Some of the dogs 1:37:18.320 --> 1:37:21.000 really want to get the squirrel my dog. You know, Um, 1:37:21.160 --> 1:37:24.240 once the squirrels dead, you could care less it the 1:37:24.400 --> 1:37:27.080 drive is the tree another squirrel. Yeah, I can tell 1:37:27.080 --> 1:37:31.360 you something graphic right now. Okay, our friend Kevin Murphy, uh, 1:37:31.640 --> 1:37:36.080 his squirrel dog. One of them ate the head. That's 1:37:36.280 --> 1:37:39.479 very common. I had a dog Jack that only wanted 1:37:39.640 --> 1:37:42.080 with golden head juice. They only wanted to eat the head. 1:37:42.479 --> 1:37:45.160 I don't know what what that is. They just want 1:37:45.160 --> 1:37:49.400 to crunch their head, all right. Yeah, I thought that 1:37:49.439 --> 1:37:51.479 dog was sick. Now I think it's just a normal dog. 1:37:53.040 --> 1:37:55.719 And then did it just come out of the box 1:37:55.720 --> 1:37:57.479 wanting to hunt squirrels or did you have to try 1:37:57.520 --> 1:38:01.800 to teach it something. No, they Um, you don't have 1:38:01.880 --> 1:38:04.240 to teach it much. Now you mess with it and 1:38:04.240 --> 1:38:07.479 and show a squirrels and and bring it along and 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:09.720 and but yeah, it's in them, you know. It's like 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:12.519 a retriever or a pointer whatever. You know, they're they're 1:38:12.560 --> 1:38:15.000 bred to want to be tree dogs, and so that's 1:38:15.040 --> 1:38:18.600 what they do. The hard thing for me is to 1:38:18.880 --> 1:38:24.960 differentiate between yards squirrels and woods squirrels. So, uh, you know, 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:27.559 mom and the kids, like seeing the squirrels in the yard. 1:38:27.720 --> 1:38:30.040 I gotta wait for for him to leave to then 1:38:30.120 --> 1:38:33.720 those then those down you know, the dogs looking out 1:38:33.960 --> 1:38:36.680 you know, looking out the window, just quivering, you know, 1:38:37.479 --> 1:38:41.400 you know, going crazy and you know so but it's fun. 1:38:41.840 --> 1:38:44.280 And then do you keep a dog for hunting ducks too? 1:38:44.800 --> 1:38:47.519 I don't know, just the squirrel dogs. And let's go 1:38:47.560 --> 1:38:50.800 over and pick up dogs yourself. Yeah, if I'm if 1:38:50.840 --> 1:38:53.439 I'm lucky enough to hit one. You know, do you 1:38:53.560 --> 1:38:57.880 view you're because you grew up hunting and grew up 1:38:57.880 --> 1:39:01.880 around that. Do you view year work now as like 1:39:01.920 --> 1:39:03.559 an extension of that or is it just feel like 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:05.880 completely different. It's like it's just there's work and then 1:39:05.880 --> 1:39:10.599 there's what you do for fun. It's completely different. But 1:39:10.760 --> 1:39:14.680 the reason I have this job is because of my 1:39:14.800 --> 1:39:18.559 love for the outdoors and hunting and fishing and and 1:39:18.880 --> 1:39:24.000 so what what I do now, Um, the enjoyment I 1:39:24.040 --> 1:39:29.120 get is seeing that my work is going to the 1:39:29.200 --> 1:39:34.000 benefit of of the outdoors or benefit of native washer, 1:39:34.560 --> 1:39:38.120 the ecosystems and those those. Yeah, so this's just just 1:39:38.160 --> 1:39:43.440 an extension of of liking to do that. Do good trappers? 1:39:44.000 --> 1:39:47.439 When do you have a trapper working for you. Do 1:39:47.560 --> 1:39:50.479 all the good trappers have a hunting and fishing background 1:39:50.560 --> 1:39:52.639 or can you just or do you find people can 1:39:52.680 --> 1:39:54.800 just get it and figured out even though it didn't 1:39:54.800 --> 1:39:57.960 grow up doing that kind of stuff? Both? Yeah, yep, yep, 1:39:58.040 --> 1:40:00.920 there's no um uh lot of times the guys who 1:40:00.960 --> 1:40:03.840 grew up and gals grew up doing it are a 1:40:03.920 --> 1:40:06.880 little bit more familiar with it. But you know, we've 1:40:06.880 --> 1:40:10.559 had some people with no background whatsoever and we introduced 1:40:10.600 --> 1:40:14.000 them and trained them and if turned out really top notch. 1:40:15.479 --> 1:40:18.960 And then you mentioned that, so you found that, Um, 1:40:19.120 --> 1:40:25.360 you have men and women that work on the trapping teams, right, yeah? 1:40:25.600 --> 1:40:31.760 And then uh, do the people that trapped do they 1:40:31.760 --> 1:40:33.519 want to stand with it for years? Or is it 1:40:33.600 --> 1:40:38.720 like summer technician kind of jobs? Both? It's uh, it's um, 1:40:38.760 --> 1:40:41.680 it's kind of like you love it or you've you 1:40:41.920 --> 1:40:43.519 after you get a belly full, you kind of want 1:40:43.520 --> 1:40:46.639 to do something else. There's people who have have done 1:40:46.640 --> 1:40:49.000 it their entire career and that's all they want to 1:40:49.000 --> 1:40:52.599 talk about, and it's it's it totally consumes them. There's 1:40:52.640 --> 1:40:55.320 people who do a good job and say, Okay, you 1:40:55.360 --> 1:40:59.479 know I've I've caught enough hogs or or whatever. Okay 1:40:59.520 --> 1:41:01.320 it's or whatever where it is, and they move on 1:41:01.479 --> 1:41:03.439 or they move up into you know, in a more 1:41:03.439 --> 1:41:06.679 of a biologist role, you know, and they work on 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:09.640 on different things, and you know, it's just natural progression. 1:41:09.920 --> 1:41:11.800 Is it hard to fill the positions? The reason I'm 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:13.559 asking all these questions that I could picture a lot 1:41:13.600 --> 1:41:16.320 of people that listen to this would be like, man, 1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:19.360 that's the job for me. Yeah, it's it's not hard 1:41:19.400 --> 1:41:22.559 to fill the position at all, um, but it's very 1:41:22.600 --> 1:41:25.439 hard people want that work. It's very hard to get 1:41:25.439 --> 1:41:29.080 people to stay. Everything turns into a job, right, um. 1:41:29.160 --> 1:41:33.120 And so so they think they're gonna be all just yeah, 1:41:33.640 --> 1:41:35.640 a good times. And if you hunt it, if you 1:41:35.720 --> 1:41:38.360 hunt it, if you hunted and then we don't hunt them, 1:41:38.439 --> 1:41:41.599 we we do control work. If you hunted pigs every day, 1:41:41.680 --> 1:41:43.880 you got up and you went to work at eight 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:46.160 o'clock and came home at five o'clock, and you hunt 1:41:46.240 --> 1:41:48.439 pigs all day long, you're gonna get real tired of 1:41:48.479 --> 1:41:52.840 that real quick. Yeah, not nearly as fun. Yeah you 1:41:52.880 --> 1:42:02.960 got any more questions? Yeah? I did have one. Just now, Um, shucks, 1:42:03.120 --> 1:42:08.480 can't come back to me because I'll tell you one. Uh. 1:42:08.760 --> 1:42:11.360 I started trapping muskrats and my brothers. We were young. 1:42:11.720 --> 1:42:14.080 I was ten when I called my first muskrat, and 1:42:14.080 --> 1:42:16.760 I that I got an all manner. You know. I 1:42:17.040 --> 1:42:20.840 trapped everything for trapping and stuck with it till I 1:42:20.880 --> 1:42:24.360 was twenty two. I set my last you know, when 1:42:24.400 --> 1:42:26.000 I set my last trap with the intent and making 1:42:26.040 --> 1:42:28.760 money on it now and then I'll go catch something 1:42:28.800 --> 1:42:31.840 for making you know, for half mere my wife or whatever. 1:42:32.360 --> 1:42:36.080 But when I found out about that there was such 1:42:36.080 --> 1:42:41.280 a thing as like animal damage control work, for a while, 1:42:41.320 --> 1:42:43.040 I thought that that was the job I was going for. 1:42:43.560 --> 1:42:45.439 Like I would have been would have been some other 1:42:45.640 --> 1:42:47.080 version of events. I would have been one of the 1:42:47.120 --> 1:42:51.000 people sending it an application to check pigs trap pigs. 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:55.840 It would have been like immensely appealing to me with 1:42:55.880 --> 1:42:57.880 the with the I was a private guy working in 1:42:57.920 --> 1:43:01.559 Colorado and we started just chatting. I was working in retail. 1:43:02.040 --> 1:43:04.040 He's like, you know, we want to you know, have 1:43:04.120 --> 1:43:06.599 pizza or something that there's a pizza point right next door. 1:43:06.640 --> 1:43:08.320 So I then it for lunch a few days later, 1:43:08.800 --> 1:43:11.040 and I was jacked up. I was like, yeah, dude, 1:43:11.080 --> 1:43:13.040 this sounds great, you know, I'll learned all about this. 1:43:13.120 --> 1:43:14.960 And he's like, yeah, it's you know, most of it's 1:43:15.000 --> 1:43:17.760 during like September, October, November, and I was like, hold on, 1:43:18.400 --> 1:43:21.120 that's on the season. I can't be doing that. You know. 1:43:21.640 --> 1:43:26.280 After it was probably mostly a lot of beaver work, 1:43:26.760 --> 1:43:29.679 you know, beaver's messing up, you know, chopping down people's 1:43:29.720 --> 1:43:33.280 pretty aspens in their backyards along all the creeks in Colorado. 1:43:33.280 --> 1:43:35.840 A lot of that, probably some coons. What kind of 1:43:35.880 --> 1:43:40.679 retail are you doing? Selling retail? Closed outdoor cloten shop? 1:43:42.160 --> 1:43:44.720 But I remember my question. Kyletes are kind of a 1:43:44.760 --> 1:43:48.360 new animal here in Missouri, right, No, they've been around 1:43:48.400 --> 1:43:51.759 for quite a while, like more than a couple of decades. 1:43:51.840 --> 1:43:54.800 The new the nude tons of other places. I didn't 1:43:54.800 --> 1:43:56.920 know that. So they've been they've had a foothold here 1:43:56.960 --> 1:43:59.719 for a long time. Yeah, yeah, they've been here for 1:44:00.280 --> 1:44:02.479 quite a while. So people there were kids here in 1:44:02.520 --> 1:44:07.280 the uh sixties, seventies, they were they had coyotes. Yeah, 1:44:07.720 --> 1:44:12.320 they've been here a long time. Kind of figures as 1:44:12.400 --> 1:44:15.680 part of the what the Eastern migration. But I can 1:44:15.720 --> 1:44:18.960 still follow that up with do you have many conflicts 1:44:19.360 --> 1:44:22.240 with coyotes that you guys deal with. We do have, 1:44:22.720 --> 1:44:27.160 um some some conflicts, not as not as many as 1:44:27.240 --> 1:44:31.479 some of the um Western states, the sheep growers and 1:44:31.479 --> 1:44:35.479 and some of the cattle places. A lot of ours 1:44:35.600 --> 1:44:40.640 or urban conflicts. UM couple get cats getting namt. Yeah, 1:44:40.880 --> 1:44:44.680 you know, um seeing them running around and and you know, 1:44:44.760 --> 1:44:47.920 coyotes can live anywhere, and they do pretty pretty good 1:44:47.920 --> 1:44:51.800 every anywhere they are, so um So yeah, most of 1:44:51.800 --> 1:44:55.040 ours would probably urban. You know, they like to for 1:44:55.160 --> 1:44:58.400 wildlife services anyway. They like that the airport environment. So 1:44:58.840 --> 1:45:02.160 we take some off of airports and those type of things. 1:45:02.160 --> 1:45:05.799 But not as big of an issue in Missouri, UM 1:45:05.840 --> 1:45:08.400 as it is in other states. The Missouri Department Conservation 1:45:08.439 --> 1:45:14.519 does some kay at work. Um, it's not really our arena. Yeah, Brandon, 1:45:14.520 --> 1:45:15.760 you must have been hanging out. But do you have 1:45:15.760 --> 1:45:18.759 any concluders? Any final things you wanted to ask about? 1:45:20.680 --> 1:45:23.720 Nothing to ask about. I think just as a concluder, 1:45:23.800 --> 1:45:28.000 I wanted to just kind of emphasize how complicated conservation is, 1:45:28.040 --> 1:45:30.840 and people always attribute hunting to conservation, but I think 1:45:30.840 --> 1:45:33.680 in the case of the feral hog, that's the opposite. 1:45:33.880 --> 1:45:38.200 And encourage people, especially here in Missouri too, to not 1:45:38.360 --> 1:45:41.799 embrace that culture, because it puts in jeopardy the cultures 1:45:41.800 --> 1:45:44.320 that we truly should embrace, like deer hunting and turkey 1:45:44.400 --> 1:45:47.559 hunting and squirrel hunting, our native species that belong here 1:45:47.560 --> 1:45:50.600 on the landscape, and these hogs don't. And if you 1:45:50.680 --> 1:45:54.760 participate in that um, you're abiding by something that is, 1:45:55.320 --> 1:45:58.519 you know, having a negative reaction on those heritages that 1:45:58.560 --> 1:46:03.000 we hold so dear, you're throwing away or jeopardizing like 1:46:03.080 --> 1:46:11.120 some deep traditions. Yeah, and a functioning landscape. Yeah, it's 1:46:11.280 --> 1:46:13.920 it's hard to manage these forests, you know, we don't 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:16.840 we don't just let the forest go anymore. There's a 1:46:16.840 --> 1:46:19.840 lot of work that goes into keeping these habitats healthy. 1:46:20.000 --> 1:46:22.479 And when these hogs come in and you know, root 1:46:22.560 --> 1:46:27.880 up spring creeks and and destroy uh species like the 1:46:28.000 --> 1:46:32.040 dragonfly you were talking about, Parker, and ruined habitat for 1:46:32.160 --> 1:46:36.200 other game species that we you know, have such immense 1:46:36.360 --> 1:46:39.400 value on not only recreationally in this area, but economically, 1:46:40.760 --> 1:46:43.200 it's a bad thing all the way around. I wish 1:46:43.200 --> 1:46:44.640 it was possibly to get a better sense of what 1:46:44.720 --> 1:46:47.120 kind of dent they put into turkeys, you know, as 1:46:47.120 --> 1:46:50.680 a ground nesting bird. You know, we hear, we hear. 1:46:50.720 --> 1:46:53.320 People are hard to look at that making the claim 1:46:53.520 --> 1:46:56.760 that you know that they eat a lot of the eggs. Um. 1:46:56.800 --> 1:46:58.720 But I don't know if there's parkers have been a 1:46:58.720 --> 1:47:00.720 study done on that the year where I'm sure, yeah, 1:47:00.760 --> 1:47:04.439 there's probably uh several studies. But it's let's face it, 1:47:04.439 --> 1:47:07.880 it's it's a hog. It's an invasive species that doesn't 1:47:07.880 --> 1:47:11.599 belong here. So if it eats one turkey nest, it's 1:47:11.640 --> 1:47:16.080 it's too many. Yeah. Sure they're a negative impact on 1:47:16.080 --> 1:47:18.360 on all of our ground nesting birds. I mean they 1:47:18.439 --> 1:47:21.599 root on the ground and you know they take those 1:47:21.680 --> 1:47:24.600 They totally not only you know, you think about it, 1:47:24.640 --> 1:47:29.160 not only turkeys or or quail for instance, or or 1:47:29.720 --> 1:47:32.760 some of those other small you know birds that that 1:47:32.840 --> 1:47:36.880 nest low in the lands, you know, in the forest understore, understore, 1:47:36.960 --> 1:47:40.200 you know, hogs are having an impact on those as well. So, 1:47:40.520 --> 1:47:43.360 like I said, it's an exotic invasive so ones too 1:47:43.360 --> 1:47:46.200 many doesn't belong here. It's not it's not from here, 1:47:46.280 --> 1:47:49.880 you know. Yeah. What's funny is that the people that 1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:56.320 are trying to bring pigs in and promote pigs as 1:47:56.320 --> 1:48:00.920 a hunting thing. Usually sell it as how they're helping 1:48:00.920 --> 1:48:05.559 with the pig problem, right, and you see all the time. Man, 1:48:05.640 --> 1:48:08.120 you can go online and they'll be like, you know, 1:48:08.320 --> 1:48:12.880 places advertising Texas is overrun with hogs down, Come down. 1:48:12.960 --> 1:48:15.799 Then he realized it's a fenced operation and they're actually 1:48:15.800 --> 1:48:22.840 buying pigs. But but people like that narrative. I think 1:48:22.840 --> 1:48:25.040 it's well, I think I got a bunch of theories 1:48:25.080 --> 1:48:27.280 on it. The thing I found is that this is 1:48:27.320 --> 1:48:31.719 my precluding thought. The thing I found with people people 1:48:31.760 --> 1:48:36.599 who become curious about hunting, not people who grew up 1:48:36.600 --> 1:48:39.639 in hunting culture and hunting community, with people who didn't 1:48:39.640 --> 1:48:41.960 grow up around it, and they become curious about hunting 1:48:42.720 --> 1:48:44.960 and they want to find a way to know it's okay, 1:48:45.000 --> 1:48:47.840 Like they desperately want to go, but they need to 1:48:47.880 --> 1:48:55.040 be told it's okay. Those people are drawn to pig 1:48:55.120 --> 1:49:00.200 hunting because they feel like, oh, you mean I can 1:49:00.280 --> 1:49:04.760 do this, and no absolutely certain that I'm doing the 1:49:04.880 --> 1:49:08.120 right thing, because they're not. They're not already educated on 1:49:08.160 --> 1:49:13.400 the fact that by participating in licensed hunting you're contributing 1:49:13.439 --> 1:49:21.479 immense amounts of resource into wildlife habitat management enforcement. You know, 1:49:21.600 --> 1:49:24.160 disease control. They don't. They don't get that right. They 1:49:24.160 --> 1:49:26.120 need to know that like that they're gonna go like 1:49:26.280 --> 1:49:30.479 by taking a life, they're helping everyone out. And so 1:49:30.560 --> 1:49:33.800 again and again when I've spoken with people who are like, man, 1:49:33.920 --> 1:49:35.760 come on, go hunt and think about doing a hog 1:49:35.840 --> 1:49:38.000 hunt because I understand how they're like a non native. 1:49:38.439 --> 1:49:41.360 You just hear all the time. Man, it's really gotten 1:49:41.400 --> 1:49:48.800 out there in my lifetime as this like as a thing. Yeah. Yeah. 1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:51.360 And the first time I ever stepped foot, the first 1:49:51.360 --> 1:49:55.080 time I've ever hunted into place that had the possibility 1:49:55.560 --> 1:49:58.040 of having a pig. We're hunting deer. But I sat 1:49:58.120 --> 1:49:59.880 up on my tree, staying the whole time, praying a 1:50:00.040 --> 1:50:04.120 pig came by. Sure, Sure, I was way more interested 1:50:04.160 --> 1:50:06.080 in that than I wasn't a deer. I was like, 1:50:06.200 --> 1:50:08.880 my god, a pig running around in the woods, How 1:50:08.960 --> 1:50:13.559 wonderful that would be. Having no idea about the bigger picture, 1:50:13.840 --> 1:50:17.000 right issue? Right, And you know, you know we're helping, 1:50:17.000 --> 1:50:19.800 we're helping, we're helping. But you know it's I go 1:50:19.880 --> 1:50:23.800 back to the tv UM deal, and you know, they 1:50:23.840 --> 1:50:28.559 passed up three styles and in fourteen little little shows 1:50:28.600 --> 1:50:35.120 to shoot one mature bore, which does absolutely nothing as 1:50:35.200 --> 1:50:38.960 far as population control goes. You know, it's it's just 1:50:40.200 --> 1:50:43.000 it's it's uh, it's in some instance it's just uh, 1:50:43.320 --> 1:50:46.400 it's uh, it's far as you know. In some instances, 1:50:46.439 --> 1:50:49.439 I think. I have a friend whose family runs cattle 1:50:50.080 --> 1:50:59.000 in northern California, and uh, one day I was asking 1:50:59.160 --> 1:51:02.360 her father, who lets me hunt wild pigs out there, 1:51:03.200 --> 1:51:05.720 and he complains about them. But one day I was 1:51:05.760 --> 1:51:08.680 asking her father. I said, if you could wave a 1:51:08.760 --> 1:51:13.559 magic wand and have them all be gone, would you 1:51:13.560 --> 1:51:17.640 wave it? He thought about it for a minute, and 1:51:17.640 --> 1:51:24.640 he's like, no, not all of them. He wants He 1:51:24.720 --> 1:51:28.519 wants it his way. He wants just not quite so many, 1:51:28.640 --> 1:51:32.800 but not all of them. Right. So, as much as 1:51:32.800 --> 1:51:36.519 he curses them and shows you where they're all hanging 1:51:36.560 --> 1:51:38.680 out and shows you what they did bad here and 1:51:38.720 --> 1:51:40.920 what they did bad there, there's some part of them 1:51:40.920 --> 1:51:44.200 that just you know, well, I think for a lot 1:51:44.200 --> 1:51:47.400 of people, he just comes down to a natural empathy 1:51:47.439 --> 1:51:50.400 to animals, right, Like you just can't look at it 1:51:50.400 --> 1:51:52.479 and be like, oh, yeah, even though I know all 1:51:52.560 --> 1:51:55.560 this about how bad they are, wipe them out. It 1:51:55.600 --> 1:51:58.599 would be great if they weren't on this continent anymore. Yeah, 1:51:58.600 --> 1:52:02.640 there's maybe something, Maybe there's some little nugget of goodness 1:52:03.000 --> 1:52:05.519 residual like like some kind of nugget of goodness, and 1:52:05.600 --> 1:52:10.519 people that just a thing we've learned is that wiping 1:52:10.600 --> 1:52:14.200 things out isn't generally like and it's true, generally speaking, 1:52:14.240 --> 1:52:16.679 not a good idea, you know, And I think people 1:52:16.800 --> 1:52:18.879 carry that in and they don't and they're not interesting 1:52:18.920 --> 1:52:21.040 the nuance of it. But it was funny to watch 1:52:21.040 --> 1:52:24.479 and wrestle with it for a minute. You know. He's like, 1:52:24.520 --> 1:52:30.559 you can't be greedy. Ye, But in Missouri, the goal 1:52:30.680 --> 1:52:36.000 is clear, it is, it is gone. And then what's 1:52:36.040 --> 1:52:39.840 the what's the most likely source. Let's say no one 1:52:39.880 --> 1:52:44.040 brought one in. That's my last question. No one's trucking 1:52:44.080 --> 1:52:47.160 them in. No one's trucking in. They're still walking from 1:52:47.200 --> 1:52:54.280 somewhere from where. Um, we have them in Oklahoma, so 1:52:54.320 --> 1:52:56.439 they can we have them in Arkansas. They can walk 1:52:56.479 --> 1:53:04.880 in from Arkansas in Tennessee. Um, Illinois done a good job, 1:53:05.600 --> 1:53:10.680 so our southern Southern brethren. Before I was born, my 1:53:10.680 --> 1:53:14.920 old man was hunting wild pigs in Arkansas. Mine too, 1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:18.960 So it's never gonna be that this is not a problem. 1:53:19.000 --> 1:53:21.719 It's just gonna be something that could requires constant monitoring. 1:53:22.040 --> 1:53:25.960 And you know, and and some states there they're a 1:53:26.040 --> 1:53:28.760 game animal and they even embrace that. So you know, 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:34.400 it varies all over, that's right, That's right. So I 1:53:34.439 --> 1:53:36.320 don't even say there's a limited Hony tags, but you 1:53:36.320 --> 1:53:39.800 gotta buy a tag. Limited. Chances are they're not ever 1:53:39.840 --> 1:53:42.720 going to be all the way going from California. But 1:53:44.040 --> 1:53:48.080 you know, may I'll tell you what. People there love 1:53:48.160 --> 1:53:52.439 them hunters, and it's kind of like a it's been 1:53:52.479 --> 1:53:54.800 going on a long time cooping hunting pigs there a 1:53:54.800 --> 1:53:58.160 long time. There's people that that's kind of their main 1:53:58.200 --> 1:54:01.040 thing they hunt. And so one of the funnest pig hunting, 1:54:01.120 --> 1:54:02.640 I hate say this to you, but some of the 1:54:02.640 --> 1:54:04.920 funnest pig hunt I've done, it's been in California because 1:54:04.920 --> 1:54:08.240 you can spot in stalk wild pigs. Yeah, you glass 1:54:08.280 --> 1:54:11.840 them off. It's it's fun. Yeah, it's it's there's no 1:54:12.040 --> 1:54:15.439 arguing that, you know. All right, Well, thank you very 1:54:15.479 --> 1:54:18.560 much for joining us. Good look, Steve, Steve Jones is 1:54:18.640 --> 1:54:23.559 all here the whole time, concluder because he hadn't said anything, 1:54:23.680 --> 1:54:26.320 I know, because he never need were introduced him, but 1:54:26.400 --> 1:54:30.360 I think he's a game chef. Steve Jones has been 1:54:32.080 --> 1:54:37.000 joining us listening in. Well, I had not by plugging you. 1:54:37.320 --> 1:54:40.120 You you post materials about wild Game. Yeah, I got 1:54:41.760 --> 1:54:44.680 killer nams dot com. It's just kind of a small, little, 1:54:44.800 --> 1:54:49.720 uh hobby website. Nothing, nothing monetized or professional. But I 1:54:49.760 --> 1:54:52.280 just started kind of recording the things that I was 1:54:52.360 --> 1:54:55.240 learning about cooking wild game and I just enjoy I 1:54:55.360 --> 1:54:57.320 checked it out. It's good. I'll vouch for it. There's 1:54:57.360 --> 1:55:01.960 some good information on their killer Killer stock. Uh, thank 1:55:02.000 --> 1:55:04.880 you very much. Food. Well, you've got an opportunity to 1:55:04.920 --> 1:55:09.400 come and sing karaoke for Pavaratti here, so I couldn't 1:55:09.400 --> 1:55:12.560 pass that up. So okay, you gotta did you have 1:55:12.640 --> 1:55:15.240 Did you have a thought or question for our guests? Yeah, 1:55:15.280 --> 1:55:17.680 I don't. I don't know as much about the hog 1:55:17.760 --> 1:55:20.400 problem is as Parker and Brandon, but I have been 1:55:20.400 --> 1:55:22.000 reading about it, and I write about it. I'm an 1:55:22.040 --> 1:55:26.080 outdoor writer also, uh, And I would say even though 1:55:26.120 --> 1:55:29.200 I've enjoyed a few hog hunts, I've had some of 1:55:29.240 --> 1:55:31.200 my actually best hunts I've had my life have been 1:55:31.240 --> 1:55:34.080 hog hunts. But there is no doubt in my mind 1:55:34.120 --> 1:55:38.440 that this is absolutely the only, uh correct way to 1:55:38.480 --> 1:55:41.200 deal with a serious conservation problem. If you approach it 1:55:41.240 --> 1:55:44.520 from a concert conservation or land ethic perspective, there is 1:55:44.720 --> 1:55:49.120 no other choice but eradication. And you're able to look 1:55:49.160 --> 1:55:51.840 at it and and hold both ideas in your head 1:55:51.840 --> 1:55:56.200 at once. Absolutely, it's nice to hunt them, just just 1:55:56.280 --> 1:55:59.240 nice to eat them. But they gotta go. Absolutely, they 1:55:59.320 --> 1:56:02.000 got to go go hunt them where they're natural. You 1:56:02.040 --> 1:56:04.840 know where they're where. They're not an introduced exotic. But 1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:07.240 if I could change one thing, because I talked to 1:56:07.280 --> 1:56:12.080 a lot of hunters, the the the everything that the U. 1:56:12.120 --> 1:56:14.040 S d. A aphis is doing is great. Everything that 1:56:14.080 --> 1:56:17.200 the Missouri Department of Conservation is doing is great, except 1:56:17.640 --> 1:56:20.920 they haven't sold or explained the idea about why they 1:56:20.960 --> 1:56:25.280 have banned hog hunting on their own MDC lands Missouri 1:56:25.320 --> 1:56:29.000 Department of Conservation, and that people that that aren't fully 1:56:29.000 --> 1:56:33.160 coached up on all the details, it is counterintuitive. They 1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:35.640 do not get it. Brandon and I talked to a 1:56:35.720 --> 1:56:38.440 pilot a couple of weeks ago who was coming in 1:56:38.520 --> 1:56:40.040 for a landing there with a couple of Farrell hogs 1:56:40.040 --> 1:56:43.040 on the runway and he was railing at us about 1:56:43.040 --> 1:56:45.320 why would the Department of Conservations say you can't shoot 1:56:45.360 --> 1:56:47.880 the pigs. You know, that's just counterintuitive, he was, It's 1:56:47.920 --> 1:56:49.880 the right thing. I just wish they were doing a 1:56:49.920 --> 1:56:52.720 better job of explaining and selling it to the public, 1:56:53.520 --> 1:56:57.080 because well, you know, they've had several of these podcasts 1:56:57.080 --> 1:57:01.000 and webcasts and and call in I put things and 1:57:01.000 --> 1:57:06.040 and I think getting the word out. I disagree with 1:57:06.080 --> 1:57:08.640 you and as much as they they're trying, but to 1:57:08.680 --> 1:57:12.800 get everybody educated, people have to educate themselves to some extent, 1:57:13.320 --> 1:57:17.040 you know. And and you're right, it is counterintuitive, and 1:57:17.080 --> 1:57:22.120 it's difficult, um thing to sell. But you know, I 1:57:23.000 --> 1:57:26.120 think we're the programs in its infancy if you think 1:57:26.120 --> 1:57:29.960 about it. You know, we've been trying to to eliminate 1:57:30.000 --> 1:57:35.640 for US swine for really three years, you know, hardcore. 1:57:36.000 --> 1:57:39.640 And I think as time goes on, it'll I think 1:57:39.680 --> 1:57:42.080 the word will get out. Everything takes time, and that 1:57:42.200 --> 1:57:45.120 messaging and you guys know this probably more more than 1:57:45.160 --> 1:57:47.200 I do that the messaging you just hammered over and 1:57:47.240 --> 1:57:49.480 over and finally it takes hold. You know, it's like 1:57:49.840 --> 1:57:52.000 putting your seatbelt on the kind of thing put your 1:57:52.000 --> 1:57:53.880 seatbelt onto. Your kids, put your seat belt and put 1:57:53.880 --> 1:57:57.200 your seatbelt. Finally they're putting their seatbelt on, and and 1:57:57.520 --> 1:57:59.160 you didn't tell them. They're telling you they put your 1:57:59.160 --> 1:58:01.120 seat belt on. Hey, hogs are bad. Hogs are bad. 1:58:01.120 --> 1:58:03.080 Hogs are bad. Yeah, I think it probably would eventually 1:58:03.160 --> 1:58:05.960 lead to a certain amount of kind of like public shaming. 1:58:06.080 --> 1:58:09.200 Like the more it gets out, the more guys that 1:58:09.240 --> 1:58:11.880 are engaged in their bodies might be like, you know, many, 1:58:12.480 --> 1:58:16.320 we've probably cut it out. That's that's that's working both ways. Though. 1:58:16.360 --> 1:58:19.800 There was just a propaganda meeting down here led by 1:58:20.080 --> 1:58:23.760 a local state representative bringing together people, you know, talking 1:58:23.760 --> 1:58:27.240 about the arrogance of the Department of Conservation and the 1:58:27.280 --> 1:58:29.680 fact that they would ban hunting. Look at our Department 1:58:29.680 --> 1:58:32.720 of Conservation is now siding with anti hunters. I mean, 1:58:32.760 --> 1:58:38.000 the propaganda machine is another huge roadblock to making this happen. 1:58:38.040 --> 1:58:41.240 And now, of course everybody with social media can spread 1:58:41.400 --> 1:58:45.680 just complete half truths and mistruths, and you know, it's 1:58:45.800 --> 1:58:48.680 it's fighting two battles. It's fighting the ecological battle and 1:58:48.760 --> 1:58:51.320 it's fighting the social battle and trying to get people 1:58:51.320 --> 1:58:53.440 to buy into what needs to be done to protect 1:58:53.480 --> 1:58:59.680 the resources. Good job, Steve. Thank you stirred up a 1:58:59.680 --> 1:59:06.160 whole them. You're like a like a big wall stirred 1:59:06.160 --> 1:59:10.440 off silt mud. All right, man, thank you very much 1:59:10.440 --> 1:59:14.920 for coming on. I know it's probably uh taking away 1:59:14.920 --> 1:59:18.800 from your main thing you'd like to be doing. Not 1:59:18.880 --> 1:59:21.919 too much. Not right now. We can't turkey hunt afterwards. 1:59:22.760 --> 1:59:25.160 We gotta get that change. Yeah, after one o'clock and 1:59:25.240 --> 1:59:29.640 squirrel season should go on after February fift for how 1:59:29.680 --> 1:59:34.520 long until the day before turkey season. Well that would 1:59:34.560 --> 1:59:38.600 mean it's only closed for a month, right, correct, Let's 1:59:38.640 --> 1:59:43.400 just go all your squirrels. Yeah, alright, so joining me. Thanks,