WEBVTT - Every Issue Is Viewed Through a Political Lens. Lanhee Chen Talks to Armstrong & Getty. 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:08.079 The Armstrong and Getty Show. Sir, if you were to 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.560 win the election, would you be willing to commit to 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.880 not point a president forward in giving Donald Trump a 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:21.040 pardon under the pretense of healing the nation? In other words, 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.279 are you willing to commit to the American ideal that 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:29.400 no one is above the law? Absolutely, yes, I'd commit. 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.000 So that's Joe Biden from his town hall last night, 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.800 and I thought that was amazing. So most of the 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.920 media I'm taking in is fairly obsessed and should be 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:44.120 this week about what did Biden know and when did 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.560 he know it? With what Trump is calling Obama Gate 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.800 and do we have a constitutional crisis here? In some 0:00:49.200 --> 0:00:52.240 Jonathan truly called it the story of the century went 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.840 on with the the media and uh, you know, spying 0:00:55.840 --> 0:00:59.000 on political opponents and that sort of stuff. But for 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.240 the other half of the country, the question is the 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.080 crimes of Donald Trump and will you pardon him? That's 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.760 what I'm worried about if you're elected president. Completely different 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.160 worlds we're living in. For the narrative, let's discuss with 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:13.959 Lana he Chen, David and Diane Stephy, research fellow at 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:17.840 the Hoover Institution, Director of Domestic Policy Studies at Stanford University. 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.839 Lana he how are you, sir, I'm fine, good morning. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:26.080 So we're curious your take on the utterly divided perceptions 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.920 of the various groups of Americans and how do you 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.880 campaign in a country like that, and specifically, how do 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:39.080 you win over the persuadables while not freaking out your 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.520 base if your base, on the other base believe completely 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:45.759 different realities. Well, this is a really really important issue 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.520 you guys are covering, but the polarization of our society, everything, 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.880 every issue is viewed through a political lens. But I 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.400 don't care what it is, whether it's you know, reopening 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.840 the economy because of coronavirus, the issue of unmasking, which 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.320 is the whole controversy that you guys have been referencing around, uh, 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.000 you know, revealing the identities of those who asked about 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.679 A Flynn's identity or or or even you know, how 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.760 we view the stimulus bill that Congress is considering, whether 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.400 they should do it, whether it's just a big progressive 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.320 grab bag. I mean, all of these things are viewed 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:22.239 through a partisan lens, and it's tough in a campaign setting, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.399 you know what, I think most of the candidates I've 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.960 talked to this cycle have decided on and this is 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.400 not going to be encouraging. They have basically decided. They 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:32.639 have basically decided they're going to go to their base, 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:35.480 and they're going to animate their base and make sure 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.799 their base shows up and you know, hope that they 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.359 collect just enough sort of independent minded people to get 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.840 them over the finish line. But they have decided, and 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.880 there are there are countless examples of this guy's whether 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.880 it's in contested Senate races around the country, congressional races. 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.400 They have decided they are going to do their best 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.040 to get enthusiasm up amongst those who are most likely 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:02.000 to support them and hope that that's enough, because it 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.440 is just to divide it. There is no nuance. You 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.399 can't walk the middle line. You're better off just going 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.679 to your base. And it's discouraging, but I think that's 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.320 where a lot of people are. Hey, I want to 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:13.520 stay big picture for a little while. But first, there 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.079 was a fellow or one buck back a Republican congressional 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.880 seat in California for the first time since Poncho Villa 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:25.240 was coming over the border. How did how did that happen? Um, 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.160 it's a combination of a lot of different things. First 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.960 of all, I think it demonstrates the value of having 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:32.200 a candidate who who at the end of the day, 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.360 is an effective candidate because of how they match up 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:39.280 with the demographics of a district, their ability to articulate 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:43.960 just a very very simple message. And in Mike Garcia's case, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.400 who's the guy who won done in California twenty five 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.600 Senior Valley that sort of area. It was a combination 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:53.839 of a good candidate with a lot of anger at 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.840 the previous member of Congress who held that seat. I'm 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.240 sure you guys have covered the Katie Hill debacle. Yeah, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:03.160 that was the naked don't sit my hotel furniture. Naked 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.480 was my main takeaway from that. Just or just or 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.839 just don't don't don't appear naked while being a member 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.760 of Congress. I mean probably good idea, generally good good rule. 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.920 So so combination of good candidate plus you know, kind 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:21.000 of disastrous situation with the previous officeholder, and and and 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.160 you know, I think Garcia did a good job quite 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:25.000 frankly to to the points discussion we were just having 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:28.880 of motivating the people in that district. Who in particular 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.520 felt that they either supported Trump or thought Trump was 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.600 getting a bad rap. And I think that there were 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:37.160 just enough of those people in a special election context 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.600 to to to get him across the finish line. Wow. Interesting. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:42.760 I know that you've been involved in a bit of 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.120 a national discussion about opening up a particular around school, 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.279 but you know, were you mentioned the whole partisanship around 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.360 every issue. There's a doctor writing in the New York 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.000 Times today, an op ed piece from JOHNS Hopkins saying, 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.440 you know, I argued for closing down for a long 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.120 time now, and now I believe we've gone too far, 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.760 too long, the economy suffering, blah blah blah, and then 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.839 has to put a couple of paragraphs in the story 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.520 to make it clear that I realized that some of 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.400 you are sensitive to the political issues on this, as in, uh, 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.240 you're Trump, then you won't open the economy. You must 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.320 be a Trump supporter. And so immediately it's got to 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.719 be dismissed by the New York Times crowd. They had to, 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.320 they had to point that out. It makes it difficult 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.400 to have any conversation, it does. I mean, let me 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.040 give you, guys an example of this. So a couple 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:29.840 of days ago, I put out a series of tweets 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.000 that basically said, look, I think I think we do 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.599 need to really encourage the public, the public and private 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.040 K through twelfth schools to try to reopen this fall, 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:40.640 but not just reopen willy nilly. We've got to have 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.159 them think about, you know, issues like how do you 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.640 take care of faculty who might be in that sensitive 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.080 age category where they could suffer more, or kids who 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.960 have prexisting conditions. Let's let's open up the schools, but 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:55.600 do it intelligently. Um. I can't tell you how much 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.560 hatred I got from the right and the left, the 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.480 right saying you idiot, just open the school, just open 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.880 them up. Kids will be fine, you know, kids will 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:07.919 kids will do it, They'll be fine. And from the 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:10.599 left saying, you're a crazy Trump supporter. Why do you 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.360 why why do you want to kill people? And I 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.320 just don't. I don't know what to make of it anymore. 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.400 Because people have gone they've gone mad, they have an 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:24.800 inability to understand that sometimes there can be a middle, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.680 independent road that you're gonna watch. And I think most 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.960 people at their core want a reasonable solution. But we've 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.680 become so animated by the far right and the far 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:36.760 left that this is where we are in our society now. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.480 It's really kind of sad. Boy, You a guy who 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.359 studies this sort of thing your whole life, saying I 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.359 don't know what to make of it anymore and sounding 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.040 despondent is troubling to me. Well, Lani, you've probably here 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.080 to say in the past. Will make a statement or 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:50.840 have a conversation on the show, and we'll get half 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.560 a dozen emails sing I'm never gonna listen to you again. 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:57.640 You're two pro Trump, simultaneously receiving six emails saying I'll 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.400 never listen to you again. You're too anti Trump. I mean, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:05.279 based on the same statements and and so. Yeah, it's crazy, 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.760 But guess what, I bet they're all still listening. Well, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.400 And how could he not a loan he changed with 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:14.400 the Hoover Institution and Stanford University. I wish well Trump. 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.120 I guess Trump to some extent things that benefits him 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:19.440 anytime he's being talked about. But I wish he'd stay 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.280 out of some issues. Um, I wish he'd stay out 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.960 of this Obama Gate thing. I think if he'd stay 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.280 out of it. There's a better chance The New York Times, 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.640 you know, George Stephanopolis, whatever, digs into it as soon 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.520 as Trump gets involved in it. So I don't want 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.120 to be in Trump side thing. Yeah, well, I think 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.000 you know, first of all, he's got his gut instinct 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.080 and they're just things he can't resist. This is going 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:43.560 to be one of those things he wouldn't be able 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.960 to write and then dive right into the middle of it. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.000 And you know, here's the thing. At the end of 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.440 the day, I've been looking some more at that data 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:52.520 about kind of what people think about Trump in the 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.760 election this year. I'm actually not sure if it's going 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.240 to matter a whole lot at the end of the 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.320 day whether he gets re elected or not. In terms 0:07:58.320 --> 0:08:01.720 of this issue, I really do think that it's going 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:04.160 to be a very simple calculus for most people, and 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.360 it's going to have to do with the economy. And 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:08.880 when it comes down to it, it's not about how 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.400 how objectively good the economy is, because I don't think 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:14.360 the unemployment rate is going to be at a great 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:16.520 point by the time we get to the election. It's 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.320 going to be about the trend if if Trump can 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.800 show some improvement about the economy, and he is able 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.800 to trump at that improvement. My sense is he's got 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.680 a pretty good shot at being successful, notwithstanding all of 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.160 the dialogue about how he's handled the coronavirus response. And 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.360 I think people will disagree on that, but I really 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.680 do think for most voters in the sort of swing 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.000 states who are thinking about this election carefully, it's going 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:42.800 to come down to the economy. So all this other 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:46.160 stuff is noise. Well, if the economy is not trending up, 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:50.320 you know, compared to the current situation, God help us all, 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.719 we're going to be in seriously dire straits. Lana Chan 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.960 of the Uber Institution and Stanford University Lani on our 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.280 personal note, maya to to your old college student daughter 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:07.360 has become just utterly enthusiastic about electoral data analysis, And 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.800 I don't know, Yeah, maybe I can, if I can 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:11.760 give her your email address or something, maybe you could 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.560 recommend a book or something like that. And she's a 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.960 great admirer. There's a there's a great amount of job 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.360 security for people who are interested in electoral data these days. Yeah, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.720 I can't. She's surely not my child, but I'm proud 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:27.880 of her anyway, and I claim her. Lannie, great to 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.280 talk to you, and let's do it again soon. Thank you, Yeah, 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.080 Lannie in a Twitter war over saying let's find a 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.800 middle ground and get colleges open again. I mean, is 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:42.360 there a position you can take on any issue, any 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.439 position on any issue, that will not get you hatred. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.520 There's just there's just a gut lever level feeling that 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:52.880 so many people have now of sizing up a story, 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.400 a pundit, a person you run into, or whatever, which 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.559 side you on. There's only two sides, which are you on? 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:00.720 And you listen for a you and then you make 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.480 a determination, Oh they're on that side, right, That's that's 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.920 the end of it, exactly. I try to avoid that 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.960 sort of thinking, but I understand it. You know, in 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:12.800 nineteen forty four, for instance, there were not a lot 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:15.520 of people running around saying, you know, Japan has been 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.800 the source of some beautiful modern music, you know, or 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:21.640 there are a lot of great German writers who you 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.920 really ought to read. And by the same token, I 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:25.839 used to have a next door neighbor who I despised. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.600 He was a bastard. I mean, he was a rotten 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.960 human being on every level, and if we'd had some 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.760 sort of neighborhood controversy over should we I don't know, 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:36.560 what do you want to do hire a street sweeper 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.040 to keep distrectly? And he came out in favor of it. 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:42.240 My natural inclination would be looked for reasons why that 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.120 was a stupid Why stuff everyone's money. It's just it's 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.920 the way we are as human beings. But if there's 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:54.000 anything at stake in terms of unity, I mean if, if, if, 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.640 if there's enough at stake, the unity matters. For instance, 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:00.880 the next cul de sac over was regular rating our 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.840 cul de sac, beating up our children and and attempting 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.480 to steal our stuff. Well, then he and I have 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.680 to put aside are dislike and we at least have 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.000 to figure out a way to talk to each other. Well, 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.199 the United States have some has some evil, evil sons 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.760 of bitches, pardon me, living on the next cul de sac, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.920 whether it's North Korea or China most notably, or Russia 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.280 or Iran, and we've got to be able to talk 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:28.040 to each other. That's true. If you hate your boss 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.079 and they come up with an idea that's a good idea, 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.720 you have to fight your instinct to accept the fact 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.679 that it's a good idea. So I'm asking you, friends, 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.440 look deep within your hearts, or those of you are shallow, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.680 look shallowly within your hearts, see if you can find 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:43.200 some truth.