WEBVTT - S3:EP 6 - The Choice 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:04.840 It was like I was kept underground for so long 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:10.840 and then just spit out. At twenty three, I call 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:11.840 it when I entered. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:12.200 The real world. 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:15.000 It was a whole other world than what it had been, 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:16.759 and so many things had happened. 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:26.639 Lindsay was thirteen years old when she was sent away 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.920 to live with the Maidens, and for a long time, 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:32.520 all she wanted was to go home. Now, at twenty three, 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.440 she was home back at her family's house in Pennsylvania, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:40.159 but her family felt like strangers, especially her siblings who 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:46.240 are so much older. Now. Everything felt strange. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.520 People were teaching me about the Internet, and I remember 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.680 learning about Craigslist because I needed a car. I looked 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.520 up the Backstreet Boys because when I had left in 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:59.600 ninety eight they were like what I was listening to. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:01.880 I loved them. 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.440 My parents had a TV and I remember watching Dancing 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:10.120 with the Stars. When September of old around, that was 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.200 the first time I saw images for nine to eleven. 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.120 I didn't really know what happened in nine to eleven 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:21.080 until then. I remember I made a Facebook and my 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.400 mom telling me that I shouldn't have it, and I 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:26.760 deleted it because I got really scared again. 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.039 Scared because Lindsay knew that her mom still talked with 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.320 leaders in River Road Fellowship. Lindsay may have left the Maidens, 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:40.160 but she was still supposed to follow Victor's rules. Her 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.080 parents still held Fellowship meetings and centered their lives around 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.280 their profit. They even had a picture of Victor displayed. 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.880 It was like Victor had followed her there. She was 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.760 pretty sure her parents still sent Victor money to funding 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:57.400 his lifestyle and his frequent location changes, even though her 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.919 parents were followers. The longer Lindsay was away from Victor, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:03.080 the easier it was for her to pull away from 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:03.520 the group. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.560 I think I talked to Victor once. He asked me 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.200 if I was being like mindful of the hope and 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:13.679 the return of Jesus Christ, and of course I said 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.600 yes to all those things. And after a while, like 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.720 the letter stopped, no more phone calls. I kind of 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.600 went crazy after a while, Like not crazy, but I 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.840 just was like full force, like I was ready to 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:28.680 experience everything. 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.920 Victor had emphasized that Lindsay always had a choice, even 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.280 if his influence warmed its way inside how she thought 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:42.000 about everything. Now, Lindsay would make a flurry of decisions 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.919 some big, some small, and one of those choices would 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.080 not only change her life, it would change the future 0:02:49.120 --> 0:03:08.720 of River Road Fellowship and everyone inside. From her Cocoa 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:11.800 Punch and iHeart podcasts, this is the Turning River Road, 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.440 I America Lance and I'm ailn Lance Lesser Heart six 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:30.079 the choice. Lindsay needed a job, so her parents landlord founder, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.320 won in the cafeteria of a local gym, and she 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:37.880 took other jobs as they came away, nanny server people too. 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.920 They would be like living under a rock. You don't 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:43.960 know these cultural references because I was so naive about 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.640 everything and I was so gullible. Still am a little 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:50.480 to this day, but back then it was so bad. 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.680 I was a waitress at this Irish pub. The restaurant 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:58.440 manager at one point told me to go to the 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.640 basement and look for the left hand did skillet pans 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:04.960 that were down there, And I was down there for 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.160 like thirty minutes searching for them. I thought he was 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:12.320 being serious and came back up, and obviously he wasn't. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.320 I mean, that's like just a silly example. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:23.799 I believed anything anybody told me, literally had no sense 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:24.880 of why would they lie to me? 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.919 I just thought everyone would be telling the truth. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:32.400 In River Road Fellowship. If you lied, you got in trouble. 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.839 And Lindsay always trusted anything Victor told her completely. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.599 Everything was so foreign, and everything I knew was life 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:44.200 on a farm planting gardens and slaughtering chickens and raising 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:46.040 lambs and sewing clothes. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.520 And I mean nobody did that stuff where I now lived. 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:54.560 It was I would just tell people, Oh, you know, 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.360 I just lived a very sheltered life and I was homeschooled. 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:02.600 Everything Lindsay was learning about the outside world felt so outlandish. 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.240 The things that actually were outlandish were impossible to identify. 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:11.279 Everything felt equally wild to her. Pretty soon, Lindsay stopped 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.560 going to the fellowships her parents held in their home. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.320 She started spending more time meeting friends, going on dates, 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:18.680 having fun. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.600 I started playing Ultimate Frisbee. I was in three Ultimate 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.040 Frisbee leagues. At one point, I know, I tell you, 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.880 I went crazy. I just was like, couldn't get enough 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.440 of life. I remember I went to my first bar 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.919 it was probably that winter, and my mom did not 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:41.080 want me to go. She was like standing at the 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.600 counter at the island telling me I shouldn't go, and 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.760 my dad was like Heggy, like just let her go, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:48.479 like she's gonna be fine. What do you think's going 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:53.320 to happen? I drank six tequila Sunrises in thirty minutes 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.400 because I was just so happy to be there and 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.480 they were going down really well, and I ended up 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:02.160 throwing up everywhere. 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:04.159 It was so awful. The girl I was with was 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.800 really kind and I worked with her. She took care 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:08.280 of me. I stayed at her house that night. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:13.039 But basically all of twenty eleven, if anyone invited me 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:14.960 to go out to the bars, like I was in 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.400 and I still held down a job and I started 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.800 nannying full time. I don't know how I did it all, 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.440 but any night of the week that somebody wanted to 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:28.279 go out, I would be out partying. I did a 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:33.279 lot of reckless things I. 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:32.960 Because I was like so gullible. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.240 I still remember the first time when I was at 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.440 a bar and some guy looked at me and he 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.720 told me you were the most beautiful girl in the room, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.200 like and I can't wait to show you all over 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.960 Westchester and you like show you all these places. And 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.599 I genuinely believed him, like I thought he was being 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:54.800 so serious and of course he wasn't. 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.960 He just wanted to sleep with me. That happened a lot. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:02.279 I ended up in some very terrible situations, and I 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.680 was still in that mindset the only way to make 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.160 men happy was to have sex with them. I think 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.400 it had been ingrained in me for so long, even 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:10.880 with Victor when he said that he was going to 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:15.040 take away sex from me for not being thin enough. 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.680 I just was a very willing participant because I thought 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.200 that the way to get them to like me, to 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.400 want to hang out with me was to sleep with them. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:27.960 I'm surprised, like I never did. 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:30.360 I just could have ended up in a really bad 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.880 you know, being drugged, or ended up with an STD here, 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:37.280 ended up dead, you know, Like it's just a miracle 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:38.080 that I didn't. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.760 It's like you didn't have a sense of safety practices. 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:43.280 Yeah, not at all. 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:49.080 Some like crazy things that I did. I went on 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.560 this date and the next day, so I'm in the 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.800 parking lot and like we said hello and gave each 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:56.440 other hug, and I'm walking away and I'm like, I 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.040 love you, Like I just. 0:07:58.120 --> 0:07:59.960 Bored it now. 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:02.560 And I had no. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:04.160 Idea like what love was. 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.280 I was just people probably thought it was crazy because 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.920 I had no idea how to act, and he never 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:12.680 talked to me again. 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:20.120 I don't blame him. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.360 This other guy I met on a dating website and 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.440 it was around Valentine's Day, and I asked for his 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.760 address and I mailed him a hundred dollars bouquet of 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:33.120 flowers to his house because I thought like I was 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.880 being nice, because it was almost all I knew how 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:42.480 to please people, which is ironic, because that's what I 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:45.560 got reproved on the most was people pleasing. 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:54.800 Victor used to get mad when he thought Lindsay was 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.880 trying to please other people, especially if he thought she 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.599 was giving other men or boys attention. But the no 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.240 people pleasing role did not apply when it came to Victor. 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:07.400 Lindsay had become an expert at pleasing him and doing 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.920 anything she could to avoid his anger. Maybe that's where 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.200 she got these over the top gestures of affection she 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.880 used in her dating life, now the same sort of 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:17.600 intense attention Victor loved. 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.800 As Lindsay interacted more with the outside world, she started 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:47.920 to look at her past life from a new angle, 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.120 and one day it all hid her. It was about 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.200 a year and a half after she'd left the Maidens. 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.280 She went to a house party with her cousin Kathy. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.960 A bunch of Kathy's friends from high school and colleg 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:00.640 were there. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.280 They were talking about, you know, all those years together, 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.960 growing up and singing in the choir, playing sports and traveling, 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.440 and for some crazy reason, in that moment, and I 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:16.440 still have a picture in that night and I look haggard. 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.280 It might have been taken after I was crying. I 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:23.800 don't know, but I remember thinking at some point during 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:28.080 that night, oh my gosh, my childhood was stolen from me. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:41.040 I don't have any of these kinds of memories. And 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.880 I remember Kathy and her friend Rosie. We went into 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.480 this room and we were sitting on the floor, and 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.640 I started to tell them a little bit about what happened. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.320 I don't even think I got into like details with them. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.320 And Kathy looked at me and she's like, Lindsey, you 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:04.280 were right. You had been raped at thirteen years old. 0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.320 Almost at first it was like, wait, what does that 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:19.440 mean again? What does rape even mean? What does it 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.640 look like? Because I never thought that what Victor had 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.920 done to me was rape. In my mind, it was 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:31.120 all God's love and he loved me and it was okay. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:38.680 And I remember her and Rosie being like so serious 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:46.600 and intense, and things were slowly hitting me that had 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:51.520 never crossed my mind before. I never thought of that word, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.360 never realized that that's what had happened to me. I 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:03.720 that moment I'll never forget with those two girls. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.880 Lindsay's cousin Kathy said, if you're comfortable, you should tell 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.360 my dad and stepmom. So the next day they all 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.959 sat down in the family room. Lindsay started to talk. 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.560 She felt embarrassed, scared, she didn't know what would happen. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.400 Her aunt and uncle listened to it all, and then 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.160 they encouraged her to call the police, and Lindsay wanted to. 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.760 It was like the truth had broken open. 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.320 I think even in that moment, the heaviness of it 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.920 and the severity of it didn't even quite hit me yet. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.880 I remember talking to the cop in Pine County in 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:54.600 my bedroom at my parents' house, and I just started 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:58.640 telling them like kind of who I was and. 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:01.040 Kind of what happened. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:09.680 So here's this Pine County Sheriff's Office document, basically like 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:17.200 a report suspect Victor Arden Bernard on one three twenty twelve, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.920 Blank called the Pine County Sheriff's office and made a 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.079 report of sexual abuse that occurred to her from the 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:27.280 age of thirteen until the age of twenty two. She 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.720 reported that the perpetrator was Victor Bernard, who was in 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.280 charge of the River Road Fellowship. She advised me that 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:37.960 if parents find out that she is making this report, 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.960 they will contact Bernard and he will flee the country. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.360 I remember thinking that I didn't know if they believed 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:48.240 me or not, you know, and if they thought I 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:49.120 was making it up. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.839 Blank stated that she was a member of Maiden's group. 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.240 There were ten young females in the group and they 0:13:55.280 --> 0:14:00.320 lived together. Blank reports the following she was sexual and 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.240 physically abused from the age of thirteen to the age 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.240 of twenty two by Victor Bernard while she was a 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:10.839 member of his maidens group. Bernard then told them in 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.400 the time of King Solomon, he had many concubines and 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:16.760 that it was okay for him, Bernard, to have sexual 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.800 contact with them, the maidens, because he was a man 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:25.080 of the cloth and they would remain virgins. 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.520 And I think he asked me if there was anyone 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:29.560 else that could come forward. 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.040 There was only one person Lindsay could think of one 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.160 person who would know exactly what she'd gone through, who 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:39.360 had a story like hers. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:41.920 It was almost like a no brainer. 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:48.440 The girl with red hair, a tough attitude, and a 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:54.560 giant smile Jess short for Jessana. She lived in Wisconsin now. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:59.640 Lindsay sent her a Facebook message without hesitation, Jess said 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:05.160 she was in She called the police too, just told 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:07.800 them what had happened to her, and she gave them 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.200 every document she could think of, all of her old papers, notes, diaries, 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.040 She kept old calendars whereas a kid, she had drawn 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.440 x's on the day's victor had raped her. It's almost 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.960 like she knew she might need a record of it someday. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.720 They're all part of a file, a set of cardboard 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.000 boxes full of these pieces of evidence. 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.920 This is a photocopy of something of a card that's handwritten, 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.080 and then there's a note on the top. It says, 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.480 this is a card Victor sent me the morning after 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:45.520 the first night I slept with him, Jasana. It's a 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:53.000 little card. Yeah, that's just really upsetting to my beloved Jasana. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.200 I thank God for you as I remember your tears 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:01.560 and love and believing I have you in my heart, 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.040 and I'm so glad to be waiting and watching and 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.120 longing together for our beloved Lord Jesus Christ, kept by 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.480 his love together with you. 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:20.360 Victor God. That makes me sick. I thank God for 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:27.680 you as I remember your tears. I mean, even with that, 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:36.600 it's him acknowledging there were tears, you know. Yeah, somehow 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:43.520 actually seeing his handwriting, he does these little squiggles with 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:46.840 his gees that make me feel like he cares about 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.920 how his handwriting looks. And then he signs it'd been 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:52.000 kind of this cursive. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.040 She kept that card for so long, and I wonder 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.000 she just felt like it was a piece of evidence. 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.760 And she must have been very young men when he 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:13.200 first raped her. It sounds like she was a little girl, 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.480 a little middle schooler when he wrote her this. I mean, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.840 it's all reinforcing, stick with the program, stick with what 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.640 I told you, I don't tell anyone. 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:28.800 Yeah, it does feel like love bombing. I bet he 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:32.800 strategically used love bombing at various times. Yeah, and it 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.040 basically sounds like NonStop grooming. 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:43.440 Yeah, continued of the whole cult. After Lindsay and Jess 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.520 talked to the police. They thought something would happen. This 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.320 had to be a turning point. Now that Lindsay's eyes 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:56.440 had been opened, she wanted action. She wanted Victor held accountable, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.800 but that didn't seem to happen. She says, it was 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.800 more like a smattering of phone calls spread over a year. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.800 It just felt like whenever they did call, or maybe 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:10.960 I called, it was just me saying the same thing 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.680 over and over and over again. Hey, we just want 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.760 to ask you some more questions, maybe to get like 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:23.240 clarification on stuff, any other details. And I was checking 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.400 in a lot, like any updates, do you guys need anything? 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.560 It felt like we were getting nowhere. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.159 Lindsay thought Victor could be in Brazil. She told police 0:18:38.160 --> 0:18:41.360 they'd been there together and gave a few specific locations. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:46.680 After phone calls, letters, interviews, she felt like a broken record. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.240 Why aren't we getting his picture out or like maybe 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:57.520 getting the news involved. I was determined to make my 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.920 story heard, make our voices heard, and get Victor arrested. 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.439 And I was trying to get anyone who like in 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:09.439 a position of power to help us. I wrote letters 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.639 to the president. I wrote a letter to Katy Perry 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.600 because she had grown up religiously. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:17.880 I wrote a letter of the FBI. 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.919 This is specially Agent Jackie dor the FBI, Baltimore Division. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.760 It is ten oh four am on Wednesday, March twenty seven, 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:37.880 twenty thirteen. This is Ky Pickens, US Postal Inspector, Washington Division. 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:40.920 And we're here with Lindsay Tornanbe. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:43.600 They sent to people a lot to meet with me. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:45.800 I know this is incredibly difficult for you. 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.200 Just take your time, okay, and then you know, we'll 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.840 go back and ask you some questions afterwards. Okay. 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.200 Lindsay started at the beginning. She told them how her 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.400 family joined the group, how Victor exposed himself to her 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.280 in the camper, why she was so afraid of him, 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.800 the years of abuse. She drew them a map of 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.800 the camp, with boxes and labels for all the locations. Alamoth, 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.119 the big chapel where the whole church would meet, the 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.240 dining hall where they prepared meals, the barn where they 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.919 made their own clothes, the lotch. 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:26.480 Okay, yeah, so this started when you were about thirteen, okay, 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:27.480 So how long did it. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.640 Go on until I left when I was twenty three? 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.520 Okay, that's a long time. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:40.000 So I mean I guess like at times of like 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:44.960 I blamed myself for not speaking out more, but like 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:45.240 I was. 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.679 Only fifteen, I didn't like want to I didn't know what. 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.000 I didn't want to go to hell or something. I 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.120 didn't know, and I didn't have my parents or anybody 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.240 supporting me, so I just stayed and losing. 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.720 No one at this table or anyone where else is 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:02.560 going to tell you that you did anything wrong because 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.640 you didn't. Okay, I mean, you're a kid, and you're 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:12.800 in an unusual situation where you're part of a religious experience, 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:18.560 let's call it, where you're being psychologically manipulated to believe 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:20.600 in what he wants you to believe in, because his 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:27.200 other agenda is basically too you know, based on what 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.120 you're saying less kids, and he's looking to the Bible 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:34.040 to justify whatever he does. And because your parents and 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:36.639 all the other parents are so into this guy and 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.080 believe everything he says, they don't think there's anything wrong 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.560 with it, even though. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:45.520 They know better. You're thirteen, fourteen, fifteen when this happened. 0:21:45.640 --> 0:22:15.320 It's not your fault. 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:20.639 Lindsay thought with the FBI involved, things might finally gain traction. 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.719 They said, because the abuse never crossed state lines, they 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.520 couldn't do anything. I think I was worried about the 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:30.480 statute of limitations running out. I was feeling really desperate 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:35.119 that somehow nothing like all of this and nothing would happen. 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:41.159 It almost felt like nobody was believing me. 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.399 They almost seemed to have no interest in wanting to 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.840 help or to find Victor. I remember being so frustrated 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.120 and just also in a lot of internal pain. 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.440 Not only was she disheartened that she wasn't getting justice 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.879 for herself, she worried about the maiden she left behind. 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.200 They were still under Victor's control. Scores of other people 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.440 were still being abused by him more if he recruited 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.800 new followers, found new girls. She moved around a lot 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:17.159 during this time, different states, different roommates. She didn't have 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:20.960 a lot of stuff to move. Sometimes she couchsurfed, sometimes 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.120 went back to her parents' place. She changed her name 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.439 for a while because it reminds her too much of Victor. 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.080 Even though Victor had changed her name to Lira, he 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:33.199 still sometimes called her Lindsay or Lindsay Lira. When he 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.199 was upset with her, He associated the name Lindsay was 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.840 sin He would tell her he hated Lindsay, that Lindsay 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:40.520 needed to die. 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:43.240 I picked the name Katerinax. 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:46.480 I thought it was a really pretty Italian name, and 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:47.600 then I went by Cat. 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:51.680 She thought about joining the military. She started making friends 0:23:51.680 --> 0:23:55.080 who were in the military too. She liked the camaraderie 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.800 and something about having someone else be in control actually 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.760 appealed to her. She had been told what to do 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:05.119 her whole life, so that felt safe familiar. 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:08.119 At the time. 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.040 I was making a lot of friends who were in 0:24:10.080 --> 0:24:13.840 the military, and a lot of wounded warriors amputees, and 0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:15.879 I felt like, in some way it was really easy 0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:18.360 for me to hang around them because they had been 0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:19.479 through so much loss. 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:21.520 Some of their outward. 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:24.040 Pain you could see, you know, like limbs being lost 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:25.720 in the therapy they would have to go through, and 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.560 you couldn't see physically any of my pain. But I 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:35.120 was hurting so much internally that I was gravitating towards 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:38.919 hanging around them because they would constantly, you know, like 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.399 tell each other jokes. I know that they definitely had 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:46.600 bad times, but they still carried that like brotherhood when 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:53.200 they were together and lifting each other up. I feel 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:54.919 like I really needed that at that time. 0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:57.720 Did they know what you were going through? 0:24:58.200 --> 0:25:01.520 No, not many people did. I shared with some, but 0:25:01.720 --> 0:25:08.800 not not everybody. And then there were some friends. I 0:25:08.840 --> 0:25:12.159 met some military friends who needed a roommate, so I 0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:15.879 moved in with them in Manassas, Virginia, and it was great. 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:18.000 You know the show New Girl Jess. 0:25:18.240 --> 0:25:20.960 Yeah, they always said I reminded them of her because 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:25.679 I was always like singing, singing my sentences and we 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:27.800 didn't think we had our TV hooked up, like the 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:29.520 first day or whatever, and they're like, that's okay, we 0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:30.760 have Kat here. 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:35.680 Chelantanas, it sounds like your old self was coming back 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:37.840 a little bit like your real self. 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:40.640 Yeah, there were definitely periods. 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:42.640 I mean there was also times there where I was 0:25:42.680 --> 0:25:48.560 cutting my wrists, you know, so it. 0:25:46.760 --> 0:25:52.760 It was some days were really, really hard. She says. 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:55.080 She wasn't trying to kill herself, she was doing it 0:25:55.119 --> 0:25:56.160 to cope. 0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:59.879 I felt like my internal pain was so there was 0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:01.480