1
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: It was like I was kept underground for so long

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:10,840
Speaker 1: and then just spit out. At twenty three, I call

3
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Speaker 1: it when I entered.

4
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 2: The real world.

5
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,000
Speaker 1: It was a whole other world than what it had been,

6
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Speaker 1: and so many things had happened.

7
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Speaker 3: Lindsay was thirteen years old when she was sent away

8
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 3: to live with the Maidens, and for a long time,

9
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 3: all she wanted was to go home. Now, at twenty three,

10
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 3: she was home back at her family's house in Pennsylvania,

11
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Speaker 3: but her family felt like strangers, especially her siblings who

12
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Speaker 3: are so much older. Now. Everything felt strange.

13
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Speaker 1: People were teaching me about the Internet, and I remember

14
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Speaker 1: learning about Craigslist because I needed a car. I looked

15
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Speaker 1: up the Backstreet Boys because when I had left in

16
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Speaker 1: ninety eight they were like what I was listening to.

17
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Speaker 2: I loved them.

18
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Speaker 1: My parents had a TV and I remember watching Dancing

19
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Speaker 1: with the Stars. When September of old around, that was

20
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Speaker 1: the first time I saw images for nine to eleven.

21
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Speaker 1: I didn't really know what happened in nine to eleven

22
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Speaker 1: until then. I remember I made a Facebook and my

23
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Speaker 1: mom telling me that I shouldn't have it, and I

24
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Speaker 1: deleted it because I got really scared again.

25
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Speaker 3: Scared because Lindsay knew that her mom still talked with

26
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Speaker 3: leaders in River Road Fellowship. Lindsay may have left the Maidens,

27
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Speaker 3: but she was still supposed to follow Victor's rules. Her

28
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Speaker 3: parents still held Fellowship meetings and centered their lives around

29
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Speaker 3: their profit. They even had a picture of Victor displayed.

30
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Speaker 3: It was like Victor had followed her there. She was

31
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Speaker 3: pretty sure her parents still sent Victor money to funding

32
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,400
Speaker 3: his lifestyle and his frequent location changes, even though her

33
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,919
Speaker 3: parents were followers. The longer Lindsay was away from Victor,

34
00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 3: the easier it was for her to pull away from

35
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Speaker 3: the group.

36
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Speaker 1: I think I talked to Victor once. He asked me

37
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Speaker 1: if I was being like mindful of the hope and

38
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Speaker 1: the return of Jesus Christ, and of course I said

39
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Speaker 1: yes to all those things. And after a while, like

40
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Speaker 1: the letter stopped, no more phone calls. I kind of

41
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Speaker 1: went crazy after a while, Like not crazy, but I

42
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Speaker 1: just was like full force, like I was ready to

43
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Speaker 1: experience everything.

44
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Speaker 3: Victor had emphasized that Lindsay always had a choice, even

45
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Speaker 3: if his influence warmed its way inside how she thought

46
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 3: about everything. Now, Lindsay would make a flurry of decisions

47
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Speaker 3: some big, some small, and one of those choices would

48
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Speaker 3: not only change her life, it would change the future

49
00:02:49,120 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 3: of River Road Fellowship and everyone inside. From her Cocoa

50
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,800
Speaker 3: Punch and iHeart podcasts, this is the Turning River Road,

51
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Speaker 3: I America Lance and I'm ailn Lance Lesser Heart six

52
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:30,079
Speaker 3: the choice. Lindsay needed a job, so her parents landlord founder,

53
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Speaker 3: won in the cafeteria of a local gym, and she

54
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Speaker 3: took other jobs as they came away, nanny server people too.

55
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Speaker 1: They would be like living under a rock. You don't

56
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Speaker 1: know these cultural references because I was so naive about

57
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Speaker 1: everything and I was so gullible. Still am a little

58
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Speaker 1: to this day, but back then it was so bad.

59
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Speaker 1: I was a waitress at this Irish pub. The restaurant

60
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Speaker 1: manager at one point told me to go to the

61
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Speaker 1: basement and look for the left hand did skillet pans

62
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Speaker 1: that were down there, And I was down there for

63
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Speaker 1: like thirty minutes searching for them. I thought he was

64
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Speaker 1: being serious and came back up, and obviously he wasn't.

65
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Speaker 2: I mean, that's like just a silly example.

66
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Speaker 1: I believed anything anybody told me, literally had no sense

67
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Speaker 1: of why would they lie to me?

68
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Speaker 2: I just thought everyone would be telling the truth.

69
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Speaker 3: In River Road Fellowship. If you lied, you got in trouble.

70
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Speaker 3: And Lindsay always trusted anything Victor told her completely.

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Speaker 1: Everything was so foreign, and everything I knew was life

72
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Speaker 1: on a farm planting gardens and slaughtering chickens and raising

73
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Speaker 1: lambs and sewing clothes.

74
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Speaker 2: And I mean nobody did that stuff where I now lived.

75
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Speaker 1: It was I would just tell people, Oh, you know,

76
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Speaker 1: I just lived a very sheltered life and I was homeschooled.

77
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Speaker 3: Everything Lindsay was learning about the outside world felt so outlandish.

78
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:06,240
Speaker 3: The things that actually were outlandish were impossible to identify.

79
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:11,279
Speaker 3: Everything felt equally wild to her. Pretty soon, Lindsay stopped

80
00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 3: going to the fellowships her parents held in their home.

81
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,320
Speaker 3: She started spending more time meeting friends, going on dates,

82
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:18,680
Speaker 3: having fun.

83
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,600
Speaker 1: I started playing Ultimate Frisbee. I was in three Ultimate

84
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Speaker 1: Frisbee leagues. At one point, I know, I tell you,

85
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Speaker 1: I went crazy. I just was like, couldn't get enough

86
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 1: of life. I remember I went to my first bar

87
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Speaker 1: it was probably that winter, and my mom did not

88
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Speaker 1: want me to go. She was like standing at the

89
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Speaker 1: counter at the island telling me I shouldn't go, and

90
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Speaker 1: my dad was like Heggy, like just let her go,

91
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Speaker 1: like she's gonna be fine. What do you think's going

92
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Speaker 1: to happen? I drank six tequila Sunrises in thirty minutes

93
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Speaker 1: because I was just so happy to be there and

94
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Speaker 1: they were going down really well, and I ended up

95
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Speaker 1: throwing up everywhere.

96
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Speaker 2: It was so awful. The girl I was with was

97
00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 2: really kind and I worked with her. She took care

98
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,280
Speaker 2: of me. I stayed at her house that night.

99
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Speaker 1: But basically all of twenty eleven, if anyone invited me

100
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Speaker 1: to go out to the bars, like I was in

101
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Speaker 1: and I still held down a job and I started

102
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Speaker 1: nannying full time. I don't know how I did it all,

103
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Speaker 1: but any night of the week that somebody wanted to

104
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Speaker 1: go out, I would be out partying. I did a

105
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Speaker 1: lot of reckless things I.

106
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Speaker 2: Because I was like so gullible.

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Speaker 1: I still remember the first time when I was at

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Speaker 1: a bar and some guy looked at me and he

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Speaker 1: told me you were the most beautiful girl in the room,

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Speaker 1: like and I can't wait to show you all over

111
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Speaker 1: Westchester and you like show you all these places. And

112
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Speaker 1: I genuinely believed him, like I thought he was being

113
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Speaker 1: so serious and of course he wasn't.

114
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Speaker 2: He just wanted to sleep with me. That happened a lot.

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Speaker 1: I ended up in some very terrible situations, and I

116
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Speaker 1: was still in that mindset the only way to make

117
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Speaker 1: men happy was to have sex with them. I think

118
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Speaker 1: it had been ingrained in me for so long, even

119
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Speaker 1: with Victor when he said that he was going to

120
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Speaker 1: take away sex from me for not being thin enough.

121
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Speaker 1: I just was a very willing participant because I thought

122
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Speaker 1: that the way to get them to like me, to

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Speaker 1: want to hang out with me was to sleep with them.

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Speaker 2: I'm surprised, like I never did.

125
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Speaker 1: I just could have ended up in a really bad

126
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Speaker 1: you know, being drugged, or ended up with an STD here,

127
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Speaker 1: ended up dead, you know, Like it's just a miracle

128
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Speaker 1: that I didn't.

129
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Speaker 3: It's like you didn't have a sense of safety practices.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all.

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Speaker 1: Some like crazy things that I did. I went on

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Speaker 1: this date and the next day, so I'm in the

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Speaker 1: parking lot and like we said hello and gave each

134
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Speaker 1: other hug, and I'm walking away and I'm like, I

135
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Speaker 1: love you, Like I just.

136
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Speaker 2: Bored it now.

137
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Speaker 4: And I had no.

138
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Speaker 2: Idea like what love was.

139
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Speaker 1: I was just people probably thought it was crazy because

140
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Speaker 1: I had no idea how to act, and he never

141
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Speaker 1: talked to me again.

142
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Speaker 2: I don't blame him.

143
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Speaker 1: This other guy I met on a dating website and

144
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Speaker 1: it was around Valentine's Day, and I asked for his

145
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Speaker 1: address and I mailed him a hundred dollars bouquet of

146
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Speaker 1: flowers to his house because I thought like I was

147
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Speaker 1: being nice, because it was almost all I knew how

148
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Speaker 1: to please people, which is ironic, because that's what I

149
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Speaker 1: got reproved on the most was people pleasing.

150
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Speaker 3: Victor used to get mad when he thought Lindsay was

151
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Speaker 3: trying to please other people, especially if he thought she

152
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Speaker 3: was giving other men or boys attention. But the no

153
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,240
Speaker 3: people pleasing role did not apply when it came to Victor.

154
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,400
Speaker 3: Lindsay had become an expert at pleasing him and doing

155
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Speaker 3: anything she could to avoid his anger. Maybe that's where

156
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Speaker 3: she got these over the top gestures of affection she

157
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Speaker 3: used in her dating life, now the same sort of

158
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Speaker 3: intense attention Victor loved.

159
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Speaker 5: As Lindsay interacted more with the outside world, she started

160
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Speaker 5: to look at her past life from a new angle,

161
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Speaker 5: and one day it all hid her. It was about

162
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Speaker 5: a year and a half after she'd left the Maidens.

163
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Speaker 5: She went to a house party with her cousin Kathy.

164
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Speaker 5: A bunch of Kathy's friends from high school and colleg

165
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Speaker 5: were there.

166
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Speaker 1: They were talking about, you know, all those years together,

167
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Speaker 1: growing up and singing in the choir, playing sports and traveling,

168
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,440
Speaker 1: and for some crazy reason, in that moment, and I

169
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,440
Speaker 1: still have a picture in that night and I look haggard.

170
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Speaker 1: It might have been taken after I was crying. I

171
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 1: don't know, but I remember thinking at some point during

172
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Speaker 1: that night, oh my gosh, my childhood was stolen from me.

173
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Speaker 1: I don't have any of these kinds of memories. And

174
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Speaker 1: I remember Kathy and her friend Rosie. We went into

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Speaker 1: this room and we were sitting on the floor, and

176
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Speaker 1: I started to tell them a little bit about what happened.

177
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Speaker 1: I don't even think I got into like details with them.

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Speaker 1: And Kathy looked at me and she's like, Lindsey, you

179
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Speaker 1: were right. You had been raped at thirteen years old.

180
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Speaker 1: Almost at first it was like, wait, what does that

181
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 1: mean again? What does rape even mean? What does it

182
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,640
Speaker 1: look like? Because I never thought that what Victor had

183
00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,920
Speaker 1: done to me was rape. In my mind, it was

184
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Speaker 1: all God's love and he loved me and it was okay.

185
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Speaker 1: And I remember her and Rosie being like so serious

186
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:46,600
Speaker 1: and intense, and things were slowly hitting me that had

187
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,520
Speaker 1: never crossed my mind before. I never thought of that word,

188
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,360
Speaker 1: never realized that that's what had happened to me. I

189
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Speaker 1: that moment I'll never forget with those two girls.

190
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Speaker 5: Lindsay's cousin Kathy said, if you're comfortable, you should tell

191
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Speaker 5: my dad and stepmom. So the next day they all

192
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Speaker 5: sat down in the family room. Lindsay started to talk.

193
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Speaker 5: She felt embarrassed, scared, she didn't know what would happen.

194
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 5: Her aunt and uncle listened to it all, and then

195
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 5: they encouraged her to call the police, and Lindsay wanted to.

196
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Speaker 5: It was like the truth had broken open.

197
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Speaker 1: I think even in that moment, the heaviness of it

198
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,920
Speaker 1: and the severity of it didn't even quite hit me yet.

199
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 1: I remember talking to the cop in Pine County in

200
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,600
Speaker 1: my bedroom at my parents' house, and I just started

201
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: telling them like kind of who I was and.

202
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,040
Speaker 2: Kind of what happened.

203
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:09,680
Speaker 5: So here's this Pine County Sheriff's Office document, basically like

204
00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 5: a report suspect Victor Arden Bernard on one three twenty twelve,

205
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 5: Blank called the Pine County Sheriff's office and made a

206
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,079
Speaker 5: report of sexual abuse that occurred to her from the

207
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 5: age of thirteen until the age of twenty two. She

208
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 5: reported that the perpetrator was Victor Bernard, who was in

209
00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:35,280
Speaker 5: charge of the River Road Fellowship. She advised me that

210
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,960
Speaker 5: if parents find out that she is making this report,

211
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,960
Speaker 5: they will contact Bernard and he will flee the country.

212
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,360
Speaker 1: I remember thinking that I didn't know if they believed

213
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: me or not, you know, and if they thought I

214
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:49,120
Speaker 1: was making it up.

215
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,839
Speaker 5: Blank stated that she was a member of Maiden's group.

216
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 5: There were ten young females in the group and they

217
00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 5: lived together. Blank reports the following she was sexual and

218
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,240
Speaker 5: physically abused from the age of thirteen to the age

219
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,240
Speaker 5: of twenty two by Victor Bernard while she was a

220
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,839
Speaker 5: member of his maidens group. Bernard then told them in

221
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 5: the time of King Solomon, he had many concubines and

222
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Speaker 5: that it was okay for him, Bernard, to have sexual

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Speaker 5: contact with them, the maidens, because he was a man

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Speaker 5: of the cloth and they would remain virgins.

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Speaker 1: And I think he asked me if there was anyone

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Speaker 1: else that could come forward.

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Speaker 5: There was only one person Lindsay could think of one

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Speaker 5: person who would know exactly what she'd gone through, who

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Speaker 5: had a story like hers.

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Speaker 2: It was almost like a no brainer.

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Speaker 5: The girl with red hair, a tough attitude, and a

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Speaker 5: giant smile Jess short for Jessana. She lived in Wisconsin now.

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Speaker 5: Lindsay sent her a Facebook message without hesitation, Jess said

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00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:05,160
Speaker 5: she was in She called the police too, just told

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Speaker 5: them what had happened to her, and she gave them

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Speaker 5: every document she could think of, all of her old papers, notes, diaries,

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Speaker 5: She kept old calendars whereas a kid, she had drawn

238
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Speaker 5: x's on the day's victor had raped her. It's almost

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00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 5: like she knew she might need a record of it someday.

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Speaker 5: They're all part of a file, a set of cardboard

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Speaker 5: boxes full of these pieces of evidence.

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Speaker 3: This is a photocopy of something of a card that's handwritten,

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Speaker 3: and then there's a note on the top. It says,

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Speaker 3: this is a card Victor sent me the morning after

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Speaker 3: the first night I slept with him, Jasana. It's a

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Speaker 3: little card. Yeah, that's just really upsetting to my beloved Jasana.

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Speaker 3: I thank God for you as I remember your tears

248
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Speaker 3: and love and believing I have you in my heart,

249
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Speaker 3: and I'm so glad to be waiting and watching and

250
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,120
Speaker 3: longing together for our beloved Lord Jesus Christ, kept by

251
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Speaker 3: his love together with you.

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Speaker 5: Victor God. That makes me sick. I thank God for

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Speaker 5: you as I remember your tears. I mean, even with that,

254
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 5: it's him acknowledging there were tears, you know. Yeah, somehow

255
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 5: actually seeing his handwriting, he does these little squiggles with

256
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,840
Speaker 5: his gees that make me feel like he cares about

257
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 5: how his handwriting looks. And then he signs it'd been

258
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Speaker 5: kind of this cursive.

259
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Speaker 3: She kept that card for so long, and I wonder

260
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Speaker 3: she just felt like it was a piece of evidence.

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00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,760
Speaker 5: And she must have been very young men when he

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Speaker 5: first raped her. It sounds like she was a little girl,

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Speaker 5: a little middle schooler when he wrote her this. I mean,

264
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Speaker 5: it's all reinforcing, stick with the program, stick with what

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Speaker 5: I told you, I don't tell anyone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it does feel like love bombing. I bet he

267
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 3: strategically used love bombing at various times. Yeah, and it

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00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 3: basically sounds like NonStop grooming.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, continued of the whole cult. After Lindsay and Jess

270
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 5: talked to the police. They thought something would happen. This

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00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 5: had to be a turning point. Now that Lindsay's eyes

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Speaker 5: had been opened, she wanted action. She wanted Victor held accountable,

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Speaker 5: but that didn't seem to happen. She says, it was

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Speaker 5: more like a smattering of phone calls spread over a year.

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Speaker 1: It just felt like whenever they did call, or maybe

276
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Speaker 1: I called, it was just me saying the same thing

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Speaker 1: over and over and over again. Hey, we just want

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00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,760
Speaker 1: to ask you some more questions, maybe to get like

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Speaker 1: clarification on stuff, any other details. And I was checking

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Speaker 1: in a lot, like any updates, do you guys need anything?

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Speaker 2: It felt like we were getting nowhere.

282
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 5: Lindsay thought Victor could be in Brazil. She told police

283
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,360
Speaker 5: they'd been there together and gave a few specific locations.

284
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Speaker 5: After phone calls, letters, interviews, she felt like a broken record.

285
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Speaker 1: Why aren't we getting his picture out or like maybe

286
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: getting the news involved. I was determined to make my

287
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,920
Speaker 1: story heard, make our voices heard, and get Victor arrested.

288
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,439
Speaker 1: And I was trying to get anyone who like in

289
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,439
Speaker 1: a position of power to help us. I wrote letters

290
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 1: to the president. I wrote a letter to Katy Perry

291
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Speaker 1: because she had grown up religiously.

292
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Speaker 2: I wrote a letter of the FBI.

293
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 6: This is specially Agent Jackie dor the FBI, Baltimore Division.

294
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 6: It is ten oh four am on Wednesday, March twenty seven,

295
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 6: twenty thirteen. This is Ky Pickens, US Postal Inspector, Washington Division.

296
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Speaker 6: And we're here with Lindsay Tornanbe.

297
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Speaker 2: They sent to people a lot to meet with me.

298
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Speaker 7: I know this is incredibly difficult for you.

299
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Speaker 6: Just take your time, okay, and then you know, we'll

300
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 6: go back and ask you some questions afterwards. Okay.

301
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 5: Lindsay started at the beginning. She told them how her

302
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 5: family joined the group, how Victor exposed himself to her

303
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 5: in the camper, why she was so afraid of him,

304
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 5: the years of abuse. She drew them a map of

305
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 5: the camp, with boxes and labels for all the locations. Alamoth,

306
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,119
Speaker 5: the big chapel where the whole church would meet, the

307
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Speaker 5: dining hall where they prepared meals, the barn where they

308
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 5: made their own clothes, the lotch.

309
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Speaker 6: Okay, yeah, so this started when you were about thirteen, okay,

310
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Speaker 6: So how long did it.

311
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Speaker 8: Go on until I left when I was twenty three?

312
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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a long time.

313
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,000
Speaker 8: So I mean I guess like at times of like

314
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 8: I blamed myself for not speaking out more, but like

315
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Speaker 8: I was.

316
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Speaker 9: Only fifteen, I didn't like want to I didn't know what.

317
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Speaker 9: I didn't want to go to hell or something. I

318
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 9: didn't know, and I didn't have my parents or anybody

319
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Speaker 9: supporting me, so I just stayed and losing.

320
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Speaker 6: No one at this table or anyone where else is

321
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 6: going to tell you that you did anything wrong because

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00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 6: you didn't. Okay, I mean, you're a kid, and you're

323
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 6: in an unusual situation where you're part of a religious experience,

324
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 6: let's call it, where you're being psychologically manipulated to believe

325
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 6: in what he wants you to believe in, because his

326
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 6: other agenda is basically too you know, based on what

327
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Speaker 6: you're saying less kids, and he's looking to the Bible

328
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Speaker 6: to justify whatever he does. And because your parents and

329
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 6: all the other parents are so into this guy and

330
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 6: believe everything he says, they don't think there's anything wrong

331
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Speaker 6: with it, even though.

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Speaker 7: They know better. You're thirteen, fourteen, fifteen when this happened.

333
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Speaker 7: It's not your fault.

334
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 3: Lindsay thought with the FBI involved, things might finally gain traction.

335
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,719
Speaker 1: They said, because the abuse never crossed state lines, they

336
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything. I think I was worried about the

337
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: statute of limitations running out. I was feeling really desperate

338
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 1: that somehow nothing like all of this and nothing would happen.

339
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 2: It almost felt like nobody was believing me.

340
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: They almost seemed to have no interest in wanting to

341
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: help or to find Victor. I remember being so frustrated

342
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,120
Speaker 1: and just also in a lot of internal pain.

343
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 3: Not only was she disheartened that she wasn't getting justice

344
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 3: for herself, she worried about the maiden she left behind.

345
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 3: They were still under Victor's control. Scores of other people

346
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 3: were still being abused by him more if he recruited

347
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 3: new followers, found new girls. She moved around a lot

348
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 3: during this time, different states, different roommates. She didn't have

349
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff to move. Sometimes she couchsurfed, sometimes

350
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 3: went back to her parents' place. She changed her name

351
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 3: for a while because it reminds her too much of Victor.

352
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: Even though Victor had changed her name to Lira, he

353
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 3: still sometimes called her Lindsay or Lindsay Lira. When he

354
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 3: was upset with her, He associated the name Lindsay was

355
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: sin He would tell her he hated Lindsay, that Lindsay

356
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 3: needed to die.

357
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 2: I picked the name Katerinax.

358
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: I thought it was a really pretty Italian name, and

359
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: then I went by Cat.

360
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 3: She thought about joining the military. She started making friends

361
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 3: who were in the military too. She liked the camaraderie

362
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 3: and something about having someone else be in control actually

363
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 3: appealed to her. She had been told what to do

364
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 3: her whole life, so that felt safe familiar.

365
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 2: At the time.

366
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: I was making a lot of friends who were in

367
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 1: the military, and a lot of wounded warriors amputees, and

368
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 1: I felt like, in some way it was really easy

369
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 1: for me to hang around them because they had been

370
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 1: through so much loss.

371
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: Some of their outward.

372
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: Pain you could see, you know, like limbs being lost

373
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: in the therapy they would have to go through, and

374
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: you couldn't see physically any of my pain. But I

375
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 1: was hurting so much internally that I was gravitating towards

376
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: hanging around them because they would constantly, you know, like

377
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: tell each other jokes. I know that they definitely had

378
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: bad times, but they still carried that like brotherhood when

379
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: they were together and lifting each other up. I feel

380
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: like I really needed that at that time.

381
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 3: Did they know what you were going through?

382
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 1: No, not many people did. I shared with some, but

383
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: not not everybody. And then there were some friends. I

384
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: met some military friends who needed a roommate, so I

385
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: moved in with them in Manassas, Virginia, and it was great.

386
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: You know the show New Girl Jess.

387
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, they always said I reminded them of her because

388
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: I was always like singing, singing my sentences and we

389
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: didn't think we had our TV hooked up, like the

390
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: first day or whatever, and they're like, that's okay, we

391
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: have Kat here.

392
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 3: Chelantanas, it sounds like your old self was coming back

393
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 3: a little bit like your real self.

394
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were definitely periods.

395
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean there was also times there where I was

396
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: cutting my wrists, you know, so it.

397
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: It was some days were really, really hard. She says.

398
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 3: She wasn't trying to kill herself, she was doing it

399
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 3: to cope.

400
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: I felt like my internal pain was so there was

401
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: so much. I don't know, I just felt like I

402
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: needed my body to feel physical pain. I almost felt

403
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: like I was numb. I just need to feel something.

404
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: During those years, especially in the beginning and then even

405
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: years following, I mean a small trigger could just set

406
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: me off. It could ruin my day, it could ruin

407
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: my week. And it could be a smell Victor used

408
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 1: to wear Spikenard and then Frankenson's and mirror. It could

409
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: be seeing a mother and daughter walk down the street

410
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 1: hand in hand. It could be like a memory that

411
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: came up. And sometimes I didn't even know what the

412
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,199
Speaker 1: trigger was. It was really high highs, really low lows.

413
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: No thanks to any drugs. It was just my emotions

414
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: trying to process all of this stuff.

415
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: She decided to tell her parents, tell them about it,

416
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: all about what had really happened to her for years

417
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: as a maiden in River Road. There leader Victor had

418
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 3: really done.

419
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 2: We were in the driveway.

420
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: And I just started telling them and I probably was

421
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: just word vomiting. This is what really happened, and this

422
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: is what he did to me, and you know, I'm

423
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 1: going to the cops and just helping. My dad was

424
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: like very sad. He just said he would help wherever

425
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: he could. I remember my sister yelling at me that

426
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: I was making this up and none of that happened.

427
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: And I remember walking through the garage into the kitchen

428
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: where my mother was and I think I was saying

429
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: something like, don't you believe me, Like, this is what

430
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: really happened to me. I was raped by him all

431
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: those years, since I was thirteen. She looked at me

432
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: and she was like, a lot of bad things happen,

433
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: but Victor is a man of God, and I'm going

434
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: to follow him.

435
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 2: Here.

436
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: I am crying and bearing my soul to her that

437
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: Victor had raped me repeatedly for all those years, and

438
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: she was so cold hearted, so cold to me. It

439
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: was immediately just defending the person who had hurt me

440
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: all those years, and I left no other word. I

441
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: don't think I said anything to her, just walked out

442
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Speaker 1: the door. At the time, I felt like nobody could

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Speaker 1: answer these questions like why did my parents do that?

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Speaker 1: How could they leave me there and be raped for

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Speaker 1: all those years.

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Speaker 4: Nobody came to rescue me. And then on top of it,

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Speaker 4: I was trying to get help and tell my story,

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Speaker 4: and like nobody was believing me, and it just felt

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Speaker 4: like justice would never happen.

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Speaker 3: When did the pattern of just you calling and them

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Speaker 3: calling you actually turn.

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Speaker 1: It was January of twenty fourteen that I got an

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Speaker 1: email from Tom Lyden.

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Speaker 3: So Far trying to tell her parents, or the police,

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Speaker 3: or the FBI or the president or Katy Perry. None

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Speaker 3: of it seemed to work. But then Lindsay heard from

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Speaker 3: an investigative journalist, a reporter for the local TV.

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Speaker 1: News, and he said somehow he heard about our story

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Speaker 1: and he wanted to know if we'd be willing to

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Speaker 1: talk with him, you know, to get the media involved.

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Speaker 1: And jess and I, I think both of us immediately

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Speaker 1: were like, yes, it's been two years of nothing, and

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Speaker 1: that's when everything started changing.

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Speaker 5: The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 5: It's written and produced by Erica Lance and me. Our

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Speaker 5: story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed by

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Speaker 5: James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking

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Speaker 5: by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Our executive producers are John Parratti

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Speaker 5: and Jessica Albert at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvell and

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Speaker 5: Nikki e Tour at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us

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Speaker 5: on Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out

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Speaker 5: via email The Turning at Rococo punch dot com. I'm

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Speaker 5: Alan Lance Lesser.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 7: E