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Speaker 1: On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell Cast. Hey, Caitlin, Yes, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I have a proposition for a road trip. But there's

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Speaker 1: a twist. Okay, it's the saddest road trip of all time.

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Speaker 1: You know what? That sounds okay to me. I'm in

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Speaker 1: if we went on a road trip, but in the

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Speaker 1: process of the road trip, we faced not just one

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Speaker 1: of our demons, but literally all of our demons and

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Speaker 1: came out on the other side better people. But it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be pretty, it's gonna be it's gonna be a ride.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be a painful ride, and I'm gonna throw

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Speaker 1: your canteen into a ditch. I'm in, all right, let's

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Speaker 1: do it. I mean, honestly, it'll be worth it. It'll

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Speaker 1: be where that I love it. It sounds like we'll

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Speaker 1: spend some quality time together. We're going to learn a

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Speaker 1: thing or two about a thing or two, that's for sure. Wow, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: where we take a look at your favorite movies using

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Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. Today is no exception, No episode

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Speaker 1: is any exception except maybe the Human Centipede episode. I

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Speaker 1: would say that was maybe an exception, although that might

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Speaker 1: have been our most feminist episode. Well, it's also the

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Speaker 1: most feminist movie we've ever covered, so it wasn't hard. Like,

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Speaker 1: what did we even say besides perfect movie? End of episode?

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Speaker 1: I think that that's all we said. I think it

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Speaker 1: was a one minute episode. But yes, that that is

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Speaker 1: what the podcast is about. But Caitlin, what the heck

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Speaker 1: hell hockey sticks are? Is? Um? The Bechdel Test, Well, Jamie,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you. It's a media metric created by queer

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Becktel, sometimes called the Becktel Wallace Test, where

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Speaker 1: in our version of the test requires that two people

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Speaker 1: of a marginalized gender have names, talk to each other

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Speaker 1: about something other than a man, and hopefully that's a

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Speaker 1: narratively meaningful conversation. We have an interesting we have an

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Speaker 1: interesting movie in that regard, to we have an interesting

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Speaker 1: movie in every single regard. Today, I'm very, very excited

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Speaker 1: to cover Smoke Signals. Same and that We've got an

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Speaker 1: amazing guest here with us for that discussion. She's a

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Speaker 1: content writer for a tribe called Geek. She's a citizen

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Speaker 1: of Cato Nation. It's Olivia Woodward. Hello. I am so

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Speaker 1: excited to be here now, I mean now we have

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Speaker 1: councy Olivia Woodword. My name is Olivia, and it is

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Speaker 1: so good to see y'all. It is so good. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here. This is like a dream. I've

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Speaker 1: been a big fan of the podcast for a very

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Speaker 1: long time, so I'm so excited to be here. And

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Speaker 1: this is like also one of my favorite movies. So awesome,

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Speaker 1: very excited, good, amazing. Tell us about your relationship and

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Speaker 1: your history with Smoke Signals. Yeah, so this is like

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Speaker 1: a classic Native American movie. Everyone in my generation older,

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure about younger, but definitely older. All

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Speaker 1: of us have seen this movie. This is like the

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Speaker 1: Native movie, maybe for like the U. S Natives. I

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Speaker 1: can't really speak for indigenous people in Canada, but I

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Speaker 1: know for us we quote I quote it with my

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Speaker 1: best friend all the time. Very quotable movie. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: this came out in and I was a child. Um,

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Speaker 1: So I don't think I saw this in theaters. I

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Speaker 1: think it was one of those where once it came

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Speaker 1: out on VHS, we all got together at like the

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Speaker 1: community center and watched it as it grew because it

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Speaker 1: was one of the first mainstream Native movies that we

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Speaker 1: all got to see that was made by Native people

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Speaker 1: starring Native people. So and then it just becomes like

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Speaker 1: a yearly movie that you watched, right. Yeah. So Smoke

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Speaker 1: Signals is recognized as the first future length film, written, directed,

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Speaker 1: and produced by Native Americans that reached a wide audience

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Speaker 1: both in the US and abroad. So it's like a

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Speaker 1: very significant film in that regard. Jamie, what is your

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Speaker 1: history with Smoke Signals? Um? I had seen portions of

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Speaker 1: this movie before in high school, I believe. And then

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Speaker 1: also I think I've seen like it's one of those

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Speaker 1: movies that I feel like it's on a lot. We

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Speaker 1: talked about movies like this all the time, like it's

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Speaker 1: it's on TV a lot. I see. I watched it

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Speaker 1: in high school because I had an English teacher that

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Speaker 1: we did a big unit on Sherman Alexei's writing, which

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean was I think for me certainly

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Speaker 1: the only Indigenous writer that we've studied in all of school.

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Speaker 1: Sounds about right right typical American education. Well, you're lucky

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Speaker 1: because we did not discuss any Native authors for I

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Speaker 1: wand so that's may mean, that's really cool to hear

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Speaker 1: that you got that in your school. I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's up to the teachers on what they taught, and

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Speaker 1: that was just something we never got in our curriculum.

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Speaker 1: I very I mean in Sherman Alexei complicated figure, um,

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Speaker 1: which we don't have the purview for really in this episode,

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Speaker 1: but like I want to acknowledge that. But yeah, in

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Speaker 1: high school, we definitely read The Lone Ranger and Tonto

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Speaker 1: Fist Fight in Heaven, which includes the short story that

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Speaker 1: this movie is adapted on, and we watched it in

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Speaker 1: class and I remember really liking it. But I haven't

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Speaker 1: like revisited the movie in many years, and um, I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad that we're revisiting this movie. It is such

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Speaker 1: a It's like, there's so many reasons to applaud the director,

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Speaker 1: Chris Hair for the tone that this movie strikes. But

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Speaker 1: for a movie that tackles a lot, it still is

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Speaker 1: such a fun road movie and like you're saying, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: it's so quotable and it's so rewatchable, and um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had a great time watching the movie, and I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. What's your history with smoke signals?

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Speaker 1: I didn't have one. This is my first time seeing it.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to talk about it. I wasn't expecting

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Speaker 1: it to be as funny as it is. And it's

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Speaker 1: also extremely like you said, Jamie, like strikes this really

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Speaker 1: interesting tone where it's like very moving, very compelling. There's,

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Speaker 1: you know, moments of intense drama, but there's also a

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Speaker 1: lot of comedy, and it's it's just a really interesting

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Speaker 1: fun story. So, um, I guess with that in mind,

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Speaker 1: should we just do the recap and go from there.

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Speaker 1: Let's jump in. Gotta close your eyes though when you

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Speaker 1: do it right, Thomas. Yes, I will be emulating Thomas

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Speaker 1: throughout the recap. Um Okay. So we're on the kurd

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Speaker 1: Aline Indian Reservation in Idaho. It's July n a k a.

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Speaker 1: The bi centennial. A couple Maddie and John, builds the

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Speaker 1: fire is throwing a huge party at their house on

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Speaker 1: the reservation. Then we get voiceover from Thomas builds the fire,

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Speaker 1: who tells us that in the middle of the night

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Speaker 1: after this party, a fire tore through the house, killing

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Speaker 1: the narrator's mother and father, but he was saved. He

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Speaker 1: was a baby at the time who was thrown from

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Speaker 1: a window, and a man named Arnold Joseph played by

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Speaker 1: Gary Farmer catches him and delivers him into the arms

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Speaker 1: of baby Thomas's grandmother. In the aftermath of the fire,

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Speaker 1: we meet Arnold Joseph's family, his wife Arlene, and his

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Speaker 1: infant son, Victor. Arnold mourns the tragedy of this fire

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Speaker 1: by cutting his hair and turning to alcohol abuse, and

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Speaker 1: then one day he gets in his truck and leaves

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Speaker 1: his family forever. We then cut to Thomas played by

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Speaker 1: Evan Adams and Victor played by Adam Beach are now

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Speaker 1: young men. Thomas is He's a sweet guy. He's a

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Speaker 1: bit of an odd ball. He always wears a suit.

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Speaker 1: He has a propensity for telling stories and tall tales. Victor,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, has a bit of a prickly,

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Speaker 1: cynical attitude. They don't really get along with each other,

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Speaker 1: nor did they as kids. Because we flash back to

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Speaker 1: Thomas and Victor as like twelve year olds, we see

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Speaker 1: a flashback or Thomas tells Victor that he heard his dad, Arnold,

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Speaker 1: had moved to Phoenix, Arizona, after Arnold left his family.

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Speaker 1: Back in the present, or at least um, Victor's mother

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Speaker 1: gets a call from a woman named Susie Song saying

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Speaker 1: that Arnold had passed away and that someone should come

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Speaker 1: to Phoenix to get his stuff. So Victor's trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to do this, what exactly to do,

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Speaker 1: and Thomas offers to help him. He has some money

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Speaker 1: saved up and can help Victor get to Phoenix, but

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Speaker 1: Thomas wants to go with him, and he is also

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Speaker 1: like bankrolling the trip to right, Yes, he has a

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Speaker 1: jar of a huge jar of what looks like some

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Speaker 1: like singles, maybe some like five dollar bills, but it's

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Speaker 1: mostly coins. I love Thomas so much that honestly, that

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Speaker 1: could get you a couple of tickets. That's a house

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Speaker 1: face the house. Yeah, yes, uh so Thomas wants to

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Speaker 1: go on this trip. Victor clearly does not want this,

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Speaker 1: but then Victor's mom, Arlene encourages Victor to go with Thomas,

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Speaker 1: basically saying that it's okay to accept help from others.

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Speaker 1: That's what a community does for each other. And she

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Speaker 1: also makes Victor promised that if he does go that

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Speaker 1: he will come back. So then Victor goes to Thomas

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Speaker 1: and says that he will accept his help and that

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Speaker 1: Thomas can come with him. So they set off, first

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Speaker 1: getting a ride to the bus station from a couple

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Speaker 1: of friends who drive their car and reverse the whole time,

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Speaker 1: which is never explained. Okay, it's just kind of okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not from a reservation, but I have friends and

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Speaker 1: cousins who live on a reservation, and that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a commentary on how there are no real, like functioning cars. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you make deal with what you got. It's like they're

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Speaker 1: basically the quintessential res car. So that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: where that came from? Got it? So they get this

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Speaker 1: ride and then they get on a bus where they

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Speaker 1: interact with a few people, including a gymnast woman from

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Speaker 1: Mississippi and then a couple of racist white men. Throughout

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Speaker 1: the movie, we're also getting flashbacks of different things Victor

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Speaker 1: and his father, Victor and Thomas as kids. Thomas also

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Speaker 1: tells various stories along the way, often about Arnold, how

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Speaker 1: he was a hippie. How he took Thomas to Denny's. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We also see a flashback of Arlene begging Arnold to

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Speaker 1: quit drinking, and that's when Arnold takes off and leaves

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Speaker 1: his family for good. We see young Victor be absolutely

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Speaker 1: devastated by this, and he takes out some of this

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Speaker 1: kind of emotional turmoil on young Thomas. So that's part

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Speaker 1: of their kind of rocky relationship. Yeah. Back in the present,

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Speaker 1: Victor and Thomas finally arrive in Phoenix and walked to

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Speaker 1: Victor's dad's trailer, where they meet Susie Song played by

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Speaker 1: Irene Bdard, who is Arnold's neighbor who had called Victor's mom.

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Speaker 1: So then Susie gives Victor his father's ashes. Victor's like

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Speaker 1: in a rush to leave, but kind of at the

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Speaker 1: insistence of Thomas, they end up staying and hanging out

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Speaker 1: with Susie for a bit. Thomas tells Susie some stories,

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Speaker 1: such as one story about a feast where Victor's mom

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Speaker 1: fed a hundred people even though she only had fifty

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Speaker 1: pieces of fry bread. That's my favorite story. That's the

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Speaker 1: one I will be like and she and You're like

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Speaker 1: you know that's where the story is going, but the

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Speaker 1: way he tells it, it's just so like so cinematic almost,

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Speaker 1: he really sells it, and I am my favorite part

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Speaker 1: of every story Thomas tells us when they cut two

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Speaker 1: whoever he's telling this story to right after he finishes,

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Speaker 1: like this huge climax, and then it like cuts to

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Speaker 1: Susie and she's like, yeah, that was a pretty good story. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love when he's telling the story to the two

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Speaker 1: women in the car that only goes backwards and they're like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what do we what do we think was that a

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Speaker 1: good enough story to like deserve giving you a ride?

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Speaker 1: And the one friend is like, I think it was

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Speaker 1: a great example of the oral tradition. And then they're

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Speaker 1: like all crack up laughing. It's it's so funny. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So then so Thomas is telling stories. We also get

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Speaker 1: some flashbacks where we see Susie and Arnold becoming friends.

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Speaker 1: We see Arnold talking about his past and his family

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Speaker 1: talking about Victor. Meanwhile, Victor is questioning the nature of

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Speaker 1: the relationship that Arnold had with Susie. She said that

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Speaker 1: they like kept each other's secrets. Victor seems resentful that

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Speaker 1: she was close with Arnold, while like Victor, hadn't seen

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Speaker 1: him for years and years. Victors also reluctant to deal

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Speaker 1: with his dad's stuff a k a. Deal with the

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Speaker 1: past um. Susie then reveals that Arnold told her about

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Speaker 1: the fire on that fourth of July, and that it

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Speaker 1: was Arnold who had accidentally started it while he was drunk,

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Speaker 1: and also that he went back into the house to

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Speaker 1: save his infant son, Victor. The Victor thought it was

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Speaker 1: always his mom who had saved him, and Susie also

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Speaker 1: says that Arnold had wanted to go home and return

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Speaker 1: to his family. He never, you know, meant to die

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Speaker 1: in Phoenix, but that's simply what happened. So then Victor

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Speaker 1: finally goes through his father's things, He cuts his hair

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Speaker 1: with a knife that he had found, and then he

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Speaker 1: and Thomas leave early the next morning in Arnold's truck,

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Speaker 1: without telling Susie goodbye or anything like that. Emotions are

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Speaker 1: running high in this car ride, Victor and Thomas started arguing.

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Speaker 1: Victor is saying that Thomas holds Arnold in such high

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Speaker 1: regard even though he was a drunk, abusive liar, and

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Speaker 1: Thomas is saying no, no, no, he was more than that,

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Speaker 1: and you just need to grow up. And yeah, your

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Speaker 1: dad left your mom, but you left your mom also,

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Speaker 1: and your worse because you still live in the same

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Speaker 1: house with her. And then your heart just goes like,

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Speaker 1: oh my own, you're right. But he's so naive and

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Speaker 1: yet so wise. So as they're yelling at each other,

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Speaker 1: they nearly collide with a car on the road that

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Speaker 1: had already crashed. This drunk white man is belligerent. He's

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Speaker 1: trying to blame the accident on Victor and Thomas. Another

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Speaker 1: woman in another car is badly injured, and even though

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Speaker 1: the close this town is twenty miles away, Victor sets

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Speaker 1: off on foot to try to get some help. He's running,

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Speaker 1: he's reflecting on the past. We're getting a lot of

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Speaker 1: images from the fire and just his past. He collapses

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Speaker 1: in exhaustion. He has a vision of his father helping

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Speaker 1: him up, and then we cut to the hospital where

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Speaker 1: Victor is recovering. It seems like they might be in

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Speaker 1: trouble with the law, because this drunk guy is still

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Speaker 1: insisting that the accident was Victor's fault. But then they're

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Speaker 1: released and Victor and Thomas head back to the reservation.

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Speaker 1: When they arrive, they split Arnold's ashes and discuss their

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Speaker 1: plans for laying the ashes to rest. Victor returns to

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Speaker 1: his mother. Thomas returns to his grandmother. There's voice over

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Speaker 1: about from Thomas about how do we forgive our fathers?

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Speaker 1: And then we see Victor pouring out Arnold's ashes in

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Speaker 1: a river, and I think that's is that the last

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Speaker 1: thing we see? That's where that's where I stopped the recap.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't put a period, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: did I mean to write more? And then and then Thomas,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there's these Thomas interludes, um, and it

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Speaker 1: ends on and Thomas, you know, I would expect no

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Speaker 1: less from him. He really puts a beautiful bow on

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Speaker 1: the story. Yes, I am in love with Thomas. And

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Speaker 1: that's the movie is the movie. So let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and then we will come right back to

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Speaker 1: discuss and back, Um, where do we want to begin? Olivia?

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Speaker 1: Does anything jump out to you right away as wanting

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Speaker 1: to start somewhere? Sure? Um, so I guess my well, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the question the first thing I wrote on here to

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Speaker 1: ask both of y'all is which of Thomas's stories was

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Speaker 1: y'all's favorite. M hmmm, this might just be I did

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Speaker 1: love the fry bread like ouran splitting the friebride in half,

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Speaker 1: that might be my favorite. But I also because I'm

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Speaker 1: such a Denny's head and he tells the story about

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Speaker 1: Arnold taking him to Denny's like three different times, I

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Speaker 1: want to say, I love that story, Jamie. You and

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Speaker 1: I just went to Denny's together the utterly yesterday or

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Speaker 1: two days ago, two days ago. Yeah, we loved it.

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Speaker 1: And I yeah, I really liked the Denny's story, partially

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Speaker 1: because it seemed like it was thomas favorite story. Also, um,

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Speaker 1: but I also this isn't thomas story, But I really

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Speaker 1: loved Arnold's story about the basketball game against the Jesuits. Yes,

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Speaker 1: just like the way that the actor like sells the

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Speaker 1: story and the way I don't know, I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: so many things that this movie does so like seamlessly

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Speaker 1: and beautifully that like in the hands of a less

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Speaker 1: capable director, could have seemed so corny or clunky. But

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Speaker 1: like the way that the timeline of this movie is

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Speaker 1: constantly shifting, but it's never confusing, and it's always very

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Speaker 1: fluid and the way that the stories are illustrated in this,

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Speaker 1: like you can tell that there's stories as they're being

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Speaker 1: acted out, and like it's acted out in this like

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Speaker 1: big mythic way, in the way that the rest of

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Speaker 1: the movie isn't. And I just yeah, I just like

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Speaker 1: I love how this movie is crafted. But I really

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Speaker 1: like the basketball story as well. What's your what's your favorite? Olivia? Oh,

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Speaker 1: definitely classic And I don't lie. Me and my my

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Speaker 1: friend will text each other that sometimes, like actually, so

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Speaker 1: that's just the classic among us. Yeah. I always appreciate

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Speaker 1: the way they portrayed the storytelling in this movie because

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Speaker 1: so I grew up with my tribe. I didn't grew

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Speaker 1: up on a reservation. I grew up was known as

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Speaker 1: an urban Indian um because I grew up in the city.

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Speaker 1: But I was so very connected to my tribe growing up.

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Speaker 1: And storytelling is an essential part of our culture, how

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Speaker 1: we passed down our mythologies, our religions are ceremony and

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Speaker 1: in movies that have native characters that are not by

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Speaker 1: native people, the way the native character tells the story

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Speaker 1: is like always stoic and like straight faced, But that

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Speaker 1: is not how we tell stories. That would be boring.

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Speaker 1: We wouldn't do that for thousands of years, right, So

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Speaker 1: I really appreciated how how cinematic all of them were

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Speaker 1: when they were telling those stories, especially the dad. And

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Speaker 1: a part that stuck out to me quite a bit that,

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Speaker 1: of course, like made me think of a million different things,

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Speaker 1: is it's like a flashback and Arnold is talking to

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Speaker 1: young Victor in the car and he kind of goes

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Speaker 1: on a little drunken speech because he's definitely drinking and driving,

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Speaker 1: which is not great. But the part that really stuck

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Speaker 1: out to me a lot is it's the speed tree.

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Speaker 1: He's imagining. It's such a good day. I'm a magician.

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Speaker 1: I can make this disappear. And that's it's that monologue.

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Speaker 1: Also a lot of monologues in this movie too, uh,

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Speaker 1: And the part that really stuck out to me was

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Speaker 1: making the Catholics disappear and going into this movie, you know,

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Speaker 1: when I was younger, it was just a fun movie

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Speaker 1: that had characters that look like my friends and family.

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Speaker 1: But as an adult, I can really see how generational

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Speaker 1: trauma affected my parents and affect my grandparents. And that's

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Speaker 1: like kind of what Monold was, Um, you know, he

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Speaker 1: don't want to be a drunk. But I would assume

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Speaker 1: that he his community was directly affected by residential schools

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Speaker 1: and boarding schools. So I feel like it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a hard thing for me as an adult watching this

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Speaker 1: is hard to ignore, like that it's a big reason

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Speaker 1: why Arnold is the way he is. But yeah, that

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Speaker 1: the speech of the car. That's also another one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite parts of the movie. Yeah, okay, so wait,

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Speaker 1: so you said a bunch things and I want to

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Speaker 1: address a bunch of things there. I have kind of

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Speaker 1: like two general thoughts about the movie. One is that

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Speaker 1: this is such a great example of a movie that

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Speaker 1: depending on the viewer. So, for example, if it's a

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Speaker 1: native viewer, this movie gives them the opportunity to see themselves,

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Speaker 1: their culture, their family dynamics represented on screen in a

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Speaker 1: respectful and meaningful way. If it's a viewer who is

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Speaker 1: I would say probably you're just like average non native person.

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Speaker 1: Gives that viewer an opportunity to see a culture on

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Speaker 1: screen that they might not know that much about, that

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Speaker 1: they probably have some preconceived notions about because of other

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Speaker 1: media that relies on stereotypes and tropes, many of which

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Speaker 1: are harmful and it gives those viewers a chance to

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Speaker 1: learn about a culture from filmmakers who are from that culture.

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Speaker 1: So it's like such a regardless of who is seeing this,

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Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful film. Yeah, it's it's really fun

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Speaker 1: for me because growing up, I only the only other

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Speaker 1: people I knew who saw this film was Native people,

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Speaker 1: and I never pressured by non Native friends to watch

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Speaker 1: it because I just assume they wouldn't get it. But

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Speaker 1: now as I get older, I don't want to say

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Speaker 1: forcing them, but to have a greater you know, to

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Speaker 1: kind of understand me a little bit more. And I'm

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Speaker 1: very passionate about movies and media in general, so to

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Speaker 1: understand me more is to watch Snow singles. So I

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Speaker 1: have been having close non Native friends watch it. So

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see the reaction because I guess

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Speaker 1: my worry with this film is that it's not relatable

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Speaker 1: to non Native So it's really nice to hear that

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Speaker 1: it is relatable. And well, that's my other general thought,

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Speaker 1: which is it's it's just a story about two young

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Speaker 1: men who are dealing with very relatable things. They're dealing

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Speaker 1: with generational trauma in vastly different ways. They are learning

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Speaker 1: from each other. They are reconciling their relationship along the way,

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Speaker 1: and it's one of those stories that, yeah, I feel

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Speaker 1: like Hollywood executives would be like, this is too specific.

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Speaker 1: This is about a culture that won't resonate with your

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Speaker 1: average American. Therefore people won't see it, and we can't

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Speaker 1: make money from a story like this. But it's such

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Speaker 1: a universal story about such universal things like friendship and

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Speaker 1: reconciling your past and your present and learning lessons and

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Speaker 1: dealing with family stuff. Both characters have a compelling arc

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Speaker 1: about things that are, like again, very universal and relatable.

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Speaker 1: So even though it centers characters from a specific culture,

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Speaker 1: one that shouldn't matter, and two, it's still such a

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Speaker 1: relatable thing that they're dealing with. The anyone can enjoy

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Speaker 1: this movie. I loved one thing that really stuck out

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Speaker 1: to me with and you'll start to sense a heavy

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Speaker 1: Thomas bias because I just really love and as I

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Speaker 1: was watching it, I remember feeling the same way in

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Speaker 1: high school. You know, like when you haven't seen a

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Speaker 1: movie in a long time, you're like, oh, I was

399
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Speaker 1: just as like, oh, he's the best in high school. Um,

400
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Speaker 1: but I really like how again, this movie just like

401
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Speaker 1: does so much with such a like deft writing touch

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Speaker 1: that would have felt clunky in the hands of a

403
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Speaker 1: less capable writer director. Um. But the way that Thomas

404
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: is referencing quite a bit existing media that portrays his

405
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: culture that is made by white people and is way

406
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: off the mark. I mean, they're talking about that in

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Speaker 1: the movie constantly. And also it's clear that Thomas is

408
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: still influenced by that media because there's just so much

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Speaker 1: of it. And I thought, like the conversation that Thomas

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Speaker 1: and Victor have on the bus where Thomas is kind

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Speaker 1: of rattling off all these different depictions of Indigenous people

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Speaker 1: in in like American movies, and he's kind of making

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Speaker 1: fun of it, but but Victors like, oh, you've probably

414
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Speaker 1: seen Dances with Wolves two hundred times and he's kind

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Speaker 1: of bullshitting. But then Thomas Thomas is like, well, and

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Speaker 1: it just like the movie very like seamlessly addresses how

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00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 1: poorly Indigenous people have been represented in the past, and

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Speaker 1: like how little there was in terms of any representation

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Speaker 1: that Indigenous people were included in or didn't center around

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Speaker 1: a white savior or and then and then you know

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Speaker 1: John Wayne's Teeth classic I love that it starts out

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Speaker 1: with them just like improving that song on the bus,

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Speaker 1: and then it cuts to like diagetic on Diagetic music.

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Speaker 1: I never remember which ones which, but it's basically like

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Speaker 1: a song on the soundtrack of this movie about John

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Speaker 1: Wayne's teeth. And I was like, this is comedy gold

427
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: number one. Just okay. So I don't want to assume anything,

428
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: but have y'all been to a pow wow before? I

429
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: have not? Okay, So what they are doing in that

430
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: moment is, um, what's called like a song. So pow

431
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: wows their drum groups, and so okay, maybe real quick,

432
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to assume too much of my audience,

433
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: but a powow is a gathering of native people of

434
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: all different drives, usually in all the event, and it

435
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: includes dancing and vendors and socializing. It's really fun. Also

436
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: there's ceremony involved. We will honor people, will welcome people

437
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: into the circle, and so there's always drum groups. Um,

438
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: I know in the South. So also I'm a native

439
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: from the South and some of the things we do

440
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: are different than natives from the North. And I feel

441
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: like to say that because I don't want to make

442
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: it assume I know everything about all natives. They're over

443
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: five tribes alone in the US. So, but in the

444
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: South powells have a southern drum and a northern drum

445
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: and some drum groups. In order to warm up, we'll

446
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: do songs and those are like the funny songs and

447
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: the joke songs. So that way MA can warm up.

448
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: So that's basically what they're doing. So again, a really

449
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: fun thing for me watching this movie because I'm like, oh, that,

450
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: that's really funny. I've already seen that all the time.

451
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: I love seeing the movie and it's fun to watch

452
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: it translate to non native people who have never even

453
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: been to a pow wow and don't even have the

454
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: context for that. I can still enjoy it the same way.

455
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: That's so cool. I didn't Yeah, I didn't know any

456
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: of that. I would love to go to a pow wow.

457
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: Are non native people welcome? Oh? Yeah, non data people

458
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: are very much invited to pow wows, like there are

459
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: certain rules, kind of follow what everyone else does, um

460
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: and all. It depends again, like where you are, But

461
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: in general, native non natives are very much welcomed. At

462
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 1: power is one of the few Native things that non

463
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: Natives are always welcomed at and it's also great if you,

464
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: you know, spend your money there, right, non Natives are

465
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: very much invited. Um, yeah, and I know there are.

466
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: There's a really large Native community in um California as well. Um,

467
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: so I can feel some information I would love on

468
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: the powers that happened there. But yeah, powers are super fun.

469
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: That's why, like it's not really cool to be like,

470
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: let's have a power when you're talking about like a

471
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: sales meeting, because it's a real especial thing that we do.

472
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: But back to the conversation on the bus, it's a

473
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: really fun conversation because again in two Oh my God,

474
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: we recognize too that they are criticizing dances with Wolves,

475
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: but natives at the time, like my parents age and

476
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: my aunt's age, Dances with Wolves was a huge deal

477
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: because they used actual Native actors. So that's part of

478
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: the reason why Thomas watches Dances with Wolves so much

479
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 1: because at the time that's kind of like all we

480
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: had and the nights are really interesting. Time in Native

481
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: cinema is kind of like, um, it's kind of like considered,

482
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: I guess the renaissance of Native films because while Smoke

483
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: Signals is probably the most famous. We also got Um

484
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: Dance Me Outside, which is really well known within the

485
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: Native community, and Powow Highway. And what I love about

486
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: all of those movies is that they're funny. You know.

487
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: Even starting when Natives did participate in entertainment, and I'm

488
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: gonna go way back to like vog Bowl time, we

489
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: were always stereotyped as like the noble savage and that's

490
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: kind of what we got stuck with for centuries basically.

491
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: And then in the nineties, filmmakers were able to get

492
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: funding and start showing different parts of being Native and yes,

493
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: we all do tend to have a shared trauma and

494
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: a shared history, but we're also really how we get

495
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: through it. So that was also really exciting too about

496
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 1: the nineties and then I feel like there were some

497
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: movies in between now, but now two we have TV

498
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 1: shows like Rutherford Falls and Reservation Dogs, so it feels

499
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,959
Speaker 1: like we're going back into another Native media renaissance. That

500
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: is very exciting. Yeah, definitely, hope. So a few thoughts.

501
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: When Victor is asking Thomas, like you haven't seen Dances

502
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: with Wolves one two hundred times and He's like, maybe

503
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: you and Titanic. First of all, exactly saw that coming

504
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 1: from five miles away, like they should have seen that.

505
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: Damn Iceberg, the Iceberg, Right, Okay, we absolutely suck um.

506
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: What you were just talking about, Olivia in terms of

507
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: um and I think we've talked about this before on

508
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: the podcast, especially on I want to say it was

509
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: a Matreon episode on What We Do in the Shadows,

510
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: where especially from like studios or anyone who is funding

511
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: stories by marginalized people, they're always like, well, you're gonna

512
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: want to do this tragedy porn, right, because that's the

513
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: only story you have to tell, right, And obviously that's

514
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: not the case. And you know, there's so many filmmakers

515
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: who want to explore many different tones and genres and

516
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: stories and and and I just remember commenting on how

517
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: I loved that What We Do in the Shadows was

518
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: a movie by indigenous filmmakers that is just them being

519
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: silly vampires. So so for for Smoke Signals, it feels

520
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: even though it's like a lot of aspects of indigenous

521
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: culture are referenced and are a huge part of the movie,

522
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: and pretty serious heavy topics are examined, it's not the

523
00:32:54,440 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: tragedy porn that a white Hollywood exec would insist indigenous

524
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: filmmakers to make. So yeah, I feel like it's it's

525
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: just like another It's it's like something that is so obvious,

526
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 1: but whenever it comes to like Mr. Hollywood stuff, it

527
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to that discussion where it's like

528
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: a movie can be culturally specific and really funny and

529
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 1: not a tragedy porn, which this movie is like a

530
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: perfect case study of. One thing that I really love

531
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: too that was very relatable is the conversation that Victor

532
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: and Thomas have and Victor trying to teach Thomas how

533
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: to be a real Indian Um is very relatable, especially

534
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: as someone who grew up within the city around a

535
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: lot of non native people. One thing I grew up

536
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: a lot with is when people saw it. So first off,

537
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in Texas, which if you are brown

538
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: with dark features, you're Mexican, right, So I grew up

539
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: not being visually recognized as Native. And then it doesn't

540
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: happen much anymore. But growing up, when I would tell

541
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: people as Native, they would be like, well, you don't

542
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: look Native, and I'm like, what does that mean? Um?

543
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: So their conversation was fun for me because the elders

544
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,919
Speaker 1: and that the powers. They would joke and be like, well,

545
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: you have to look serious all the time. We're serious folk,

546
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: and then they're like off laughing somewhere about cakes or whatever.

547
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I like that a lot because that's something.

548
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: You know, Native people look different across the continent. So

549
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: I thought that was a really interesting exploration. Uh, Like,

550
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: that's something I would want to talk about, is like,

551
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: what does the native person even look like? What is

552
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: There's no right way to be natives. There are serious natives,

553
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: they're silly natives kinds of natives. So I really enjoyed

554
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: that conversation as well because I feel like it kind

555
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: of also tells the audience you don't know what a

556
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: Native looks like, and that's okay. You just have to

557
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: believe when they tell you I am you know, I'm

558
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 1: Native and this is my history. So yeah, yeah, part

559
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: of that was Victor being like, yeah, you have to

560
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: look really serious and mean. You have to look mean

561
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: or else white people won't respect you. And your hair

562
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: is done up in all these braids you have to take,

563
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: you know, let your hair loose, and he's like, you know,

564
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: he's like kind of rattling off different things, and Thomas

565
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: clearly takes it to heart for a little while because

566
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: then you see and he's because he's also like, you

567
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: have to take off that suit. Um. So then in

568
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: the next scene, what are you talking about? His suit

569
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: is very cute, his braids are beautiful, but he like

570
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: he like takes off all that stuff. And I think

571
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: he only looks like that for one scene because in

572
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: the next scene he's like back in the suit, he's

573
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: back in his braids because he's like, wait a minute,

574
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: I can present anyway. I want myself like also real quick.

575
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: Since we're kind of talking about the braids, I'm pretty

576
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: sure the actor who plays Thomas, I'm pretty sure that's

577
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: his real hair. Um. But Adam Beach, who plays Victor,

578
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a wig, especially when off when

579
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: he cut it. Okay, the wig, Okay, I'm glad to

580
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: talk because the wig in the last and it's it's

581
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: hard because it's like that's where a lot of the

582
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: really really serious moments in the movie are and he's

583
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: wearing this goofy wig like it's like a party city.

584
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: They it was a wild it was a wild wig.

585
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: I usually have a good eye for wigs, not to brag,

586
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: but I mean, yes, true historically have a good eye

587
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: for wigs. I wasn't I wasn't thinking wig for most

588
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 1: of the movie. But maybe that was just a better wig.

589
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: But the whatever the end the third act, wig flop.

590
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, because they did him so dirty. I

591
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: don't know, I know why they did that. He was like,

592
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: I mean, the acting in this movie is incredible, and

593
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: to be undercut by a bad wig is just not nice,

594
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 1: especially during the emotional like peak of the movie too,

595
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: just when you forgive the sins of your father and

596
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: you're wearing that wig like a Karen wig. He's got

597
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: a bomb um. I was actually wondering if you would

598
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: speak to the significance of hair, because it gets referenced

599
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 1: in the movie, because there's the part at the beginning

600
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: where it's mentioned that Arnold mourned the fire by cutting

601
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: off his hair, never growing it back. That we have

602
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 1: the scene where Victor's telling Thomas to take his hair

603
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: out of his braids because quote, an Indian man ain't

604
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: nothing without his hair, and then when Victor is like

605
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: really finally like coming face to face with his past,

606
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,840
Speaker 1: and he's going through his father's belongings and kind of

607
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: reconciling all that. He almost seems to like ceremoniously cut

608
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: off his hair. So yeah, just if you could speak

609
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 1: to the significance of that, of course. Yeah, I actually

610
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: wrote down notes on that um so hair. And again

611
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: I can't speak for every nation, but one thing that

612
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: a lot of nations do share is relationship to our hair.

613
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: It's considered kind of an extension of your I mean

614
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: caticl it is, it's like an sension of your skin.

615
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: So it's another way of kind of feeling the world

616
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: around you. So the different hairstyles can mean different things,

617
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: but in general, whenever someone in your family dies or

618
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: someone close to you dies, you you cut your hair

619
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: um to kind of help with the morning process. So

620
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of like because the hair is kind of

621
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: like an extra sensor to the world, and so whenever

622
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: you're sad, it's becomes more sensitive almost, so you cut

623
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: it kind of help process everything. And then with the

624
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: new growth is also helping like you not only move on,

625
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: never really move on to my one's death, but to

626
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: kind of like branch into your new life with your

627
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: new hair. It's like a very symbolic thing. Yeah. Yeah,

628
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 1: and within most indigenous nations and tribes, hair is not

629
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: does not equate gender like at all. Maybe certain styles might,

630
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: but having long hair does not equal feminine or masculine really,

631
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: which was a very weird thing for me growing up,

632
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: um whatever, Like all these non native boys would grow

633
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: up their hairs and being like rebellious and I'm like, okay,

634
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: well you're barely washing it. So I don't know really

635
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: saying anything, but because with native boys, native boys, native

636
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: men take usually take really good care of here, the

637
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 1: same way you know most women are expected to. Um.

638
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, So one thing I noticed too in the

639
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: movie is that Arnold basically never lets his hair grow

640
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: back out, um, And I think that symbolizes his continuing

641
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: morning and also his continued guilt. Right. Yeah, that's kind

642
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: of the symbolism of the hair, is that it's basically

643
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: an extension of us. I was wondering that about Arnold

644
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: because that I think that either it's Thomas's narration or

645
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: Victor points it out that his that his dad never

646
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 1: grew his hair back and that being a significant that's

647
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: thank you for for sharing that, and and and then

648
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: it's like that. I guess that is that screenwriting is

649
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: at the end of the second act. But when when

650
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: Victor finally cuts his hair and kind of that simbolizes

651
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: that he's accepted his dad's death to some extent. I mean,

652
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 1: I think someone here has a master's agree in this right.

653
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: I would never mention it, but I do have a

654
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. I wasn't really

655
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: examining the movie through a structural point of view, but yeah,

656
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 1: that does feel around the end of the second act. Yeah, yeah,

657
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: before we move on to the second act, I just

658
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: or past that. I do just want to recognize the

659
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: anties and the car. They're so iconic and again adding

660
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: to how funny we are. Yes, um, oh my gosh,

661
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 1: I just I love them so much. I just wanted

662
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: to give them more attention real quick before. I mean,

663
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: they deserve all the show. Let's let's talk about that,

664
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: because I wish that I was one of the only

665
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: Because also, this movie is so like economical in the

666
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: way it tells the story, like it's a tight ninety minutes.

667
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: But I was I was kind of hoping that they

668
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: would come back again. I was bummed. I mean, although

669
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: it's like the story reaches such a perfect full circle

670
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:15,759
Speaker 1: where you see them return home, you see Victor give

671
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: Arnold ashes to our lean, you see um Grandma reunite

672
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: with Thomas. I love how much they look alike. I

673
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: just I love them. But I was just hoping that

674
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 1: we would see the two women in the car again

675
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: and get one more radio station shoutout because I loved

676
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: the radio station sequences are so funny. There's so many

677
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: fun motifs. Yeah, the traffic slash weather report on KRAS radio.

678
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: Loved that. Love that, like fry bread is a motif

679
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: in the movie. Love that. Denny's is a motif in

680
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 1: the movie. Love that, Just like Thomas telling a story

681
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: to anyone who will listen, and sometimes to people who

682
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: don't want to listen, and then always Victor saying, you're

683
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: full of ship. That's not what happened. They're Also, this

684
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: movie is like just chock full of well known Native

685
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: actors and well known Native people. So the radio host

686
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: is named Alex Trudel, and he's like a really well

687
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: known poet in the Native community, so it's always really

688
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: fun hearing him. And then almost all the actors have

689
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: gone on to do both Native Native projects and all

690
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: native projects. The Father Arnold. He is a reoccurring character

691
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: in Reservation Dogs, and he is so funny. Adam Beach

692
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: is probably the more well known name from this movie.

693
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: I think the most recent big project he was in

694
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: that I can think of right now was Suicide Squad

695
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 1: from a few years ago. Yeah. I was about to

696
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 1: say he's like Mr Superhero. Yeah. Um. Michael gray Eyes

697
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 1: has a very short cameo. He's one of the basketball

698
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: players in the first movie. One of the dreamiest people ever.

699
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: He has done several movies and right now he is

700
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,359
Speaker 1: a lead in Rutherfruit Falls. So it's just really it fun.

701
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: But like if I haven't watched this movie actually a

702
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 1: couple of years, so watching it again and I'm like, oh,

703
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: they're in this now, They're in this now. And the

704
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: mom Tattoo Cardinal, she again has done so many projects.

705
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: She's very well known. So these are all like very

706
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 1: seasoned actors now, and so it's just really exciting to

707
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: back then. This is probably one of their first roles

708
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: and they have really all like blown up in the industry,

709
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: you know. So it's really and this was Chris Ayre's

710
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: first feature that he directed and co produced. I want

711
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 1: to just pull a quote from him that he said

712
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: at a screening of another of his films entitled Skins,

713
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: where he said, quote, the only thing you get in

714
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: making period pieces about Indians is guilt. I'm interested in

715
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: doing what non Indian filmmakers can't do, which is portray

716
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: contemporary Indians. And that's something that he seems to be

717
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: very out like passionate about, and he talks about this

718
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: a lot. Because I also watched a YouTube video ever

719
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: heard of it from the a f I entitled A

720
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: Conversation with Chris Ayer Native American Identity in the Movies,

721
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: in which he talks about the representation of Native people

722
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: in film, how historically it has been extremely harmful and stereotypical.

723
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: He talks about how he approaches representation in his own filmmaking.

724
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: He talks about how to represent Native characters responsibly, especially

725
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: if you're a non Native person wanting to include Native

726
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,879
Speaker 1: people in your stories. So it's really interesting. Um, it's

727
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: like an hour long. We can link it in the description,

728
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: But I love how passionate he is about his storytelling

729
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: and his his filmmaking and representation and he just seems

730
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: like a really cool dude. Yeah. I actually, whenever I

731
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: was on this episode, I had a memory comeback. I've

732
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: actually met him really cool. Yeah, uh, many many years ago.

733
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: When I was in high school, I attended a summer

734
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: camp at high School Indian Nations University in Lawrence, Kansas,

735
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: and he was one of the speakers one of the days.

736
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 1: And Um, I was fairly shy as a fourteen year old,

737
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: but I still got the gump shin to go up

738
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: and talk to him. I didn't know what to ask him.

739
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: He was really nice, he was pretty chill. But what

740
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: I do remember is him like not being very impressed

741
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: by me because I was like, how do you make

742
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: a movie? And he was like, just do it, figure

743
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: it out, kid. I was like, alright. He was Also

744
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: I was naming big name actors and completely forgot Disney

745
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Princess Irene Ballard, who voice Poka Hottest. Yes, of course

746
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: a movie you have yet to scale in, uh in

747
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: the purview of this show. But I knew, I mean

748
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: as a child who saw Pocahona's quite a bit. You

749
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: know her voice right away and she's I mean, every

750
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: performance in this movie is really good. Um, but she's like,

751
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: I honestly was, I forgot how what a short amount

752
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: of time she's in the movie, especially because she's like

753
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: on the poster, she's like the center part of the poster.

754
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: She's framed like she's the protagonist. Um right, which is

755
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean? But but like, her performances is so good

756
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: and just I don't know, the performances are great. To

757
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: put a button on the on the Chris Air stuff,

758
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: I was, um, I'm very excited to watch that talk

759
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: and also like, I mean, he's still very much like

760
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 1: a working director. He was like thirty when he made

761
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: this movie, and he's made like ten movies since. And

762
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: I was excited to learn more about his career. And

763
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: I wonder, Um, I mean, I want him to get

764
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: access to like bigger budgets and projects if that's the

765
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: sort of stuff that he wants to be doing. I

766
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: don't really know what, you know, where he wants to stick.

767
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 1: But I would love to see a huge budget Chris

768
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: Air movie that would give him a Marvel movie or

769
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: whatever he wants. I feel like Marvel movies waste good directors.

770
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: I don't really I wouldn't wish that time on him,

771
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: but if he wants it, then he should happen. Sure,

772
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and we'll come back for

773
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: a more discussion, and we're back. I wanted to talk

774
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: about the I mean, one of the this movie does

775
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: play into a joke we make on the show a lot,

776
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: which is that ultimately every movie is about fathers and sons. Literally,

777
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: at the end, I heard your voice say that. I

778
00:47:55,120 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: was like, that's right. It's every movie me on the

779
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 1: face of the planet is about a father and a son.

780
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: And that is just a rule of movies that we

781
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: cannot break. But in this I mean, in the case

782
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: of this movie, this happens to be a really really

783
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: good movie about fathers and sons. And so I wasn't mad,

784
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: But I just like, there's so many smaller themes um

785
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: some of them culturally specific, some of them universal. But

786
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: I I don't think I've seen a movie in a

787
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: long time, at least that explores something as complicated as

788
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:37,879
Speaker 1: grieving someone who hurt you as thoughtfully as this movie does.

789
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: And it's not to say that like the way that

790
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: Victor and Thomas grieve and process are correct. There's obviously

791
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: no correct way to grieve, but all of the nuances,

792
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: especially the way that information is introduced in this movie,

793
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 1: where you know very early on that Arnold is holding

794
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: something like holding onto a lot of rama, and so

795
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: it's like this kind of back and forth of like

796
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you know, you really feel for this character.

797
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: He's clearly in a lot of pain, but then you

798
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: see him physically abuse his family and you're like, well,

799
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: fuck this guy, and then you get more information. Like

800
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 1: I thought that the way the movie is paced and written,

801
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: and the way that Victor and Thomas sort of approach,

802
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: like there's just so much going on, like and how

803
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: how am I going to process this and acknowledge and

804
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: make space for my own abuse and healing which you

805
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: can never make okay, but can you get to a

806
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 1: point where you can forgive? For some people that's going

807
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: to be yes, for some people that's going to be nope.

808
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 1: But I just like, I don't know. I was I

809
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: was crying a lot even through the wig. I was crying, crying, crying,

810
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,000
Speaker 1: just watching two very specific characters try to make their

811
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: peace with such a complicated paternal figure his death, especially

812
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: because I mean, I think one of the things we

813
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: always make fun of all these movies being about fathers

814
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: and sons, is that there's such an oversimplification of like

815
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: complex family dynamics in a lot of these movies where

816
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: it will be like a dad is a crappy dad,

817
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,720
Speaker 1: and so he has to become Santa Claus in order

818
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: to redeem himself. And I yes, I am specifically referring

819
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 1: to the Santa Claus because that's always comes back, always

820
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 1: another famous Denny's motif in American cinema, it's an American institution,

821
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: American institute. But with this one, I think it's just

822
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: like you said, Jamie, It's just it's handled in such

823
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: a way that it just feels like a compelling story

824
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: and not another like trophy movie where like, oh my god,

825
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm a son or I'm a father and I need

826
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: to figure this out in the like least nuanced way possible.

827
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: So like those are the movies that that I make

828
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: fun of, this one it explores things meaningfully, It examines

829
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: the character's emotions. I'd like that you see these two

830
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: extremely different approaches to grief and reconciliation that Victor and

831
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 1: Thomas have, where like Thomas is um, yeah, it does

832
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: seem to hold Arnold up on a on a pedestal,

833
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: and because he sees him as his savior, he owes

834
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: his life to him, so he hit a lot of

835
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: his views towards him are informed by that, but he

836
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: also recognizes like, yeah, this guy left his family, whereas

837
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: Victor is just like pretty straightforward. Victor is a no

838
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: bullshit guy, Like stories are fake. You're like every time

839
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,919
Speaker 1: someone tells Victor a story, he's like, shut up, that's

840
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: your shit. Um, And yeah, he's just he's harboring a

841
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: lot of resentment in a way that like I could

842
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: certainly identify with. And it's you know, very understandable and

843
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: like we said, there's no right or wrong way to

844
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 1: grieve or to forgive. And I think a lot of

845
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: what really resonated with me at least was the voice

846
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: over at the end, and I wish I had written

847
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: it down, But it's when Thomas is saying, like, how

848
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: do we forgive our fathers? Do we forgive them for

849
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: doing this or doing the exact opposite of that, And

850
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: it's just like a lot of he's just listing off

851
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,240
Speaker 1: different behaviors and and uh and ends with a question

852
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: to like it, it doesn't tell you that there's one

853
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 1: right way for this to happen. I felt very like

854
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: strongly connected to like Thomas's instinct to want to I

855
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: also sort of like interpreted Thomas's behavior of like sometimes

856
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: it is easier to remember someone who who hurt you

857
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: and hurt people around you as this like heightened mythic superhero,

858
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: which Thomas clearly wants superhero figures in his life. He's

859
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: constantly talking about superheroes. He has that whole speech before

860
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: Victor Chuck's is Canteen into the grass about like, you know,

861
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: we don't have a Superman, we don't have a Batman,

862
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 1: we don't have a wonder Woman. And so just seeing him,

863
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: you know, in some ways I felt like elevated Arnold

864
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: to this superhero that existed in his life. Well it's

865
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 1: like he does. But then you find out at the

866
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: end he knows, like he's aware that Arnold was not

867
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: a superhero. But I don't know, sometimes you've got to

868
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: tell yourself stories to get through the day, and that's

869
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: a huge part of grieving. And and the fact that

870
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: they managed to make this funny and like interesting to

871
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: watch is just so wild. Yeah, if I could also

872
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: like provide a little historical context to you. I know,

873
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 1: I kind of brought up in green schools, but there

874
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,319
Speaker 1: are two things in play that I think can kind

875
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 1: of help because another stereotype growing up was that me

876
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 1: and my family were a bunch of drunk Indians, right,

877
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: which is kind of shown in the movie whenever they

878
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,480
Speaker 1: have parties. That was actually seeing that hits really hard

879
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,399
Speaker 1: for me, is Victor as a young kid around all

880
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: of these drunk adults. For me, that's one of the

881
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: harder scenes to watch because that was something that happened,

882
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: and I don't think a lot of people understand how

883
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 1: that generation got there. Um, So just to provide like

884
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: old context. Boarding schools, I'm sure most of our audience

885
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: knows were instituted by the US government to assimilate Native people,

886
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: but one of the driving forces of doing that was

887
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:42,919
Speaker 1: through religion. So what they did is not only assimilate

888
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: these kids and you know, taking kids from their homes.

889
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: It's already in like the eighteen sixties. That's like when

890
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: the first boarding school opened, and then within a couple

891
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: of decades they were all over the country. The use

892
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: of religion and boarding schools I think ended around the sixties,

893
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: and that is because is Over those centuries, the U.

894
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: S Government, along with other state governments, made it illegal

895
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: for Native Americans to practice their religion at all. Um.

896
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: You could be arrested, you can be tried, and we

897
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: put in prison. So not only do we have these

898
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: generations that didn't grow up with their culture, we have

899
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: the generations that were forced to not speak their culture.

900
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,399
Speaker 1: And then you have the generation after that grew up

901
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: without culture and identity. Um, and that's very traumatizing. I

902
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: am very lucky because my mom did not My mom

903
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: and my nana did not grow up with that. My

904
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: nana didn't go my mom's mom didn't go to boarding school,

905
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: but my grandpa did, and my nana's aunts went to

906
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: boarding school, and so I grew up with those stories.

907
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: But when you have no when your culture has been stripped,

908
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: when religion has been stripped, when your whole way of

909
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: life has been stripped, then you're put into these desolate

910
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,400
Speaker 1: areas of the country where you have no previous religious

911
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: ties to the land. What else are you gonna do?

912
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 1: You're also they were provided too, with virtually no food.

913
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:05,759
Speaker 1: So while the fried bred story is fun, we have

914
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: fry bread because the government essentially gave Natives flower and

915
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 1: water to survive off of. So even fry bred still

916
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: has like a tinge of kind of sadness to it.

917
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: So of course there's going to be generations of people

918
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: that without that identity, what are they turned to? And

919
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 1: a lot of them turned to alcohol. People always say

920
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 1: that Natives have a gene for alcoholism and that that we're

921
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: prone to it, and I disagree. I think that when

922
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: you have all of that stripped away from you, it's

923
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: hard to not turn to anything else. Um, So I

924
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: just wanted to kind of provide that because y'all are right,

925
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 1: the story of the father's son is so relatable, and

926
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: this is just an extra layer on top of that

927
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 1: of how they ended up here, right, And like similar

928
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 1: to a discussion we have a lot on the podcast

929
00:56:56,360 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: about how oftentimes, like, for example, when men write two

930
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,719
Speaker 1: female characters in competition and they hate each other and

931
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: their petty because that's what they've observed, but they don't

932
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: explore at all why that might be, or why women

933
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: might feel as though they need to compete with each other.

934
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: It's just like all of that context is something that

935
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: they either don't understand or can't see or anything like that.

936
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,520
Speaker 1: The same way that, yes, there is the stereotype of

937
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: the drunk Indian in media, and that's just been put

938
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: on film and put a TV and stuff without any

939
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: exploration of, Okay, well, why might a Native person be

940
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: abusing substances? Could it be all the trauma you put

941
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: them through? Perhaps that that's very helpful context. Thank you

942
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: for providing that. And yeah, and and that just speaks

943
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: to when you have a native filmmaker who is the

944
00:57:55,760 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: one like handling the characters and handling the culture, it's

945
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: obviously going to be presented in a way that's way

946
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: more informed and responsible than someone who doesn't understand all

947
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: the context and all the nuances of everything. And it's

948
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 1: obviously why this movie is so interesting and compelling and

949
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: thought provoking and kind of speaking to that. And and

950
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: like with that context, I feel like it's even more.

951
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: It makes me appreciate even more that the movie, again

952
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 1: like very seamlessly gives you a range of experiences with

953
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 1: how people are dealing with alcohol abuse. Where in the

954
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: case of Arnold, I mean you can argue, I mean,

955
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: obviously his abuse of alcohol resulted in a lot of tragedy,

956
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: but I do like that you get to see you

957
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 1: learned by the end that he was clean and sober.

958
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 1: I like that, Um, And that also kind of brings

959
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: up we haven't really talked that much about Arlene outside

960
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 1: of the fried Bred story of quite yet, but how

961
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: when Arlene sees explicitly how much they're abusing alcohol is

962
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 1: traumatizing and negatively affecting Victor when he's throwing the bottles

963
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: at the truck and he's very you know, triggered and upset.

964
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: That that is like her you know, lightbulb moment of

965
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: like it has to end now, like we can't do

966
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: this or we're going to like destroy our relationship with

967
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,479
Speaker 1: our son. And to see that moment and to see

968
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 1: that be a moment that ultimately bonds her and Victor,

969
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: I thought was like really really powerful. And Yeah, if

970
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: anyone grew up with an alcoholic parent, it's a moment

971
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: that you're like, oh, where was that. That's it's very

972
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: cathartic too. And also, you know, Victor is basically raised

973
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: by his mom from childhood until adulthood. UM, Thomas is

974
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: raised by his grandma, and that is very reflective of

975
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: how it actually does happen in the Native community. A

976
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: lot of times it is the women that take care

977
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 1: of the community, not to like shoot on them in

978
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: but have you ever heard our podcast before? There are

979
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,760
Speaker 1: many Native bit of my life that I love and appreciate,

980
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: but they would even agree that it is almost always

981
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:27,560
Speaker 1: Native women, Native aunties and grandmas and moms that take

982
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: care of the community and that really helped keep us together.

983
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 1: So it's a very cathartic moment. Yeah, when Arlene was like,

984
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: we can't do this anymore. Um. And also to you know,

985
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: the night before they asked him who his favorite Indian

986
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: is and he said note one, and you know, so

987
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: there was a very like I really appreciated that scene

988
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 1: because I feel like it kind of had some resolution

989
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: even though we're only halfway through the movie at that point.

990
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: You know, it kind of created a resolution a little

991
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 1: bit for Victor, right, And then when you get that

992
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: part when Thomas is arguing with Victor and saying like, yeah,

993
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,680
Speaker 1: I I realized that your dad left your mom, but

994
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: so did you, and you did the worst version of

995
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: it because you still live in the same house with her,

996
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: but you're just not there emotionally. And I hope that

997
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,439
Speaker 1: Victor takes that to heart and when he goes back home,

998
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 1: he like really puts in some effort with with his mom,

999
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: and like it's implied that it does happen. They have

1000
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: that moment. I think another thing that I wanted to

1001
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: talk about was the various references to the characters kind

1002
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 1: of calling attention to how they are overlooked in American history,

1003
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: how they are mistreated by white people, how they are

1004
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 1: perceived as unwelcome foreigners on their own land. A few

1005
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: examples of this would be when the two women in

1006
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: the reverse car, they like drop them off of the

1007
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: bus station and then like, do you have your passports

1008
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 1: because you're leaving the res and going to a whole

1009
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: different country, and they're like, what are you talking about.

1010
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: We're still in the United States. And then the woman

1011
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: is like, yeah, that's as foreign as it gets, Like

1012
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: I hope you got your vaccinations. And there's mention of

1013
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: them celebrating that Fourth of July party to celebrate white

1014
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: people's independence. There's the two white men on the bus

1015
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: who steal their seats and displace them, And I mean,

1016
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 1: what is that but a very small scale allegory for

1017
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 1: like the displacement and colonization of Native people in the US.

1018
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: There's also that speech, right that's in the middle of

1019
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: a Thomas monologue, um, that same Canteen scene where he's

1020
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: just kind of like referencing the anxiety of being displaced.

1021
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: He like mentions Aumbus and Custer, and then kind of

1022
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 1: ended by saying like, even if we, you know, like

1023
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: set up on the moon, Neil Armstrong would come along

1024
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,400
Speaker 1: and like kick us out, and and and the way

1025
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: that it just like factors into conversation in this very

1026
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: matter of fact way, um, I thought was like so

1027
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: effective and good for sure. Yeah, well, because they are

1028
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: like major differences between Native world and white world, and

1029
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: that's how it feels. It's as very strong feeling that

1030
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 1: I think one of the bigger examples for me personally

1031
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 1: is that in my nation, women are expected to be

1032
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 1: leaders and you're expected to like hold leadership positions and

1033
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: you're expected through a lot of expectations. And then outside

1034
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: of that, right, h So outside of that is the

1035
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 1: patriarchy and not saying there isn't like sexism within the

1036
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 1: Native community that is influenced almost exclusively though by white

1037
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: people and Christianity and all of that. That's not something

1038
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: that inherently came from us, So, yeah, it's a it's

1039
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 1: a big difference in growing up. It was always a

1040
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: little weird having to go between the two different worlds

1041
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: because it's really what it feels like. Yeah, yeah, I

1042
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: just I thought all that was very effective, just like

1043
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: the characters touching on it and reminding anyone who's watching

1044
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: who's probably not familiar with the way that white culture

1045
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: has affected and continues to affect indigenous people. Those parts

1046
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: of the movie um very effectively done. Does anyone have

1047
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: any other thoughts about the movie? We haven't really talked

1048
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:49,480
Speaker 1: about Susie. Yes, Yeah, I love Susie. I did too,

1049
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: I really like, I mean, and I do, like selfishly

1050
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: I wish that she was in the movie more, but

1051
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:58,240
Speaker 1: I also understand why she appears when she does and why.

1052
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: And I also like I didn't really remember because I

1053
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: think I got like gas lit by the poster where

1054
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I think she's in the rest of

1055
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: the movie, when like that's not the case, and I

1056
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 1: was sort of like, oh, is this going to be

1057
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,640
Speaker 1: a forced love story? I kind of forget, I don't

1058
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: really remember, and I really like that it does not

1059
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: go that way where Susie appears. I think almost exactly

1060
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 1: halfway through the movie, she's Arnold's friend, another person like

1061
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: Arnold was a vaguely paternal figure to a lot of people,

1062
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: including his own son Um. But but it this seems

1063
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,960
Speaker 1: like and and there are a few bizarre asides where

1064
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 1: you know, she says, like, your dad was a good

1065
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 1: looking guy. He gave me the eye a little bit,

1066
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 1: and it's like, but it but it wasn't like that.

1067
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: It would like ever and I think the movie makes

1068
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: that very clear. But like he became this just like

1069
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I I always am really drawn

1070
01:05:57,760 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: to and I feel like it's never presented as a

1071
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 1: a tonic friendship between a man and a woman, but

1072
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: like two lonely people who become friends because of their

1073
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,200
Speaker 1: shared loneliness, even if they don't have, you know, a

1074
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: ton in common like they do. I mean, they had

1075
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 1: some shared culture and they were alone. And like just

1076
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: the way that that friendship is characterized and fleshed out,

1077
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 1: and like how much it really clearly meant to Susie

1078
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: and how much she really wanted to get across how

1079
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:40,720
Speaker 1: Arnold had grown in his final years to his son

1080
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: in an attempt to kind of like at least, I

1081
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 1: don't even know if it's like it's helping grieve, but

1082
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: like grieve with all the facts. I guess, which makes

1083
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 1: sense because Victor, like the whole movie, wants facts, but

1084
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: then when he's confronted with facts, he's like, I don't know,

1085
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, like it's just which just such a yeah,

1086
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: You're like, did I say I want it back? So

1087
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: I don't, because for me, it's the conflict of like, yeah,

1088
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad he's sober. I'm glad he's sobered up, but

1089
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,840
Speaker 1: he never went back. But it's like if he had

1090
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: gone back too soon, he still would have been an

1091
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:19,480
Speaker 1: absent father. So I think that's also what makes Thomas's

1092
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 1: monologue at the end so point in it's like, basically,

1093
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: he did so much wrong it's hard to know what

1094
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 1: would have been the right move. But and I also

1095
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 1: kind of feel the victor at the end. Every time

1096
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,760
Speaker 1: I watched the ending of the movie, my feeling is

1097
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 1: towards Arnold is different every time. Um, sometimes I'm more

1098
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: forgiving and then sometimes I'm more angry than i am forgiving,

1099
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 1: And I think that kind of speaks to the effectiveness

1100
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: of how they portray Arnold and all the different viewpoints

1101
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: we get on him through Victor and Thomas and even

1102
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 1: Arnold himself and how he views himself because of the

1103
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: conversation between the two of them about what's the worst

1104
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 1: thing you've ever done? Okay, sure, coming in hot there,

1105
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: I think that she's like it was one of the

1106
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:06,920
Speaker 1: first times we ever hung out. Yeah, yeah, I know.

1107
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: I feel I feel similarly conflicted about Arnold, because I mean,

1108
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 1: obviously nothing excuses abuse, but Arnold clearly loved his son.

1109
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: He was a victim of his circumstances of you know,

1110
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 1: living in the cycle of poverty on a reservation, you know, again,

1111
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: the generational trauma. The it's also implied that he was

1112
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,240
Speaker 1: and I can't because it was a story Thomas was telling,

1113
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: so I don't know, like how inflated any of the

1114
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 1: details were, But it is implied that he spent some

1115
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: time in jail also, like, which is a whole other

1116
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:47,400
Speaker 1: trauma to have to deal with later in life. Yeah.

1117
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: The other thing about Susie is that, And I think

1118
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 1: it's just because I've been so conditioned by movies to

1119
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 1: assume that if you get attractive young people in the

1120
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: same square mall, they will kiss. So I was like, Oh,

1121
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 1: for sure, either Thomas or Victor are gonna kiss Susie

1122
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,240
Speaker 1: before they leave, and that never happens, which I also

1123
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: found very refreshing. Susie's alone Wolf Baby, She's I love,

1124
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I love where they leave her story to

1125
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: where like she's you know, it's not her movie, but

1126
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: you do get to see like she ends by burning

1127
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: down Arnold's trailer and kind of this symbolic gesture, and

1128
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 1: then she moves on and it's like she's on her

1129
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 1: She's on a whole personal journey of grieving this very

1130
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 1: complicated person as well. I just I love that the

1131
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: movie like takes that moment to let you know where

1132
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: she lands, because they feel like a lesser movie would

1133
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,280
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, this character has served her purpose, so let's,

1134
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,720
Speaker 1: you know, move along. I also like this is such

1135
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 1: a small all thing, and again I feel like just

1136
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 1: a demonstration of like how many scraps um were forced

1137
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: to look for in uh women characters. But we immediately

1138
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,280
Speaker 1: find out what she does for a living, and we

1139
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: immediately find out background facts about her like Victors, like Okay,

1140
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: so where are you from? Like how did you grow up?

1141
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 1: What do you do? Like just stuff you usually don't

1142
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: find out about women in movies. Ever, Um, you find

1143
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 1: out that she was a nurse, but now she works

1144
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,480
Speaker 1: in health care administration. She travels a lot. It's exciting,

1145
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: but it's lonely. She grew up in New York, which

1146
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 1: is already like five hundred times more than you learn

1147
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: about some women who are the protagonist of a movie.

1148
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: Like I just was like wow, and and like such

1149
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: a beautiful performance from Irene Bedard, and I just love

1150
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: Susie And I know, like I self like we were saying,

1151
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,400
Speaker 1: I selfishly wish she was in it longer, but but

1152
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 1: I feel like the time that she is in the

1153
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,800
Speaker 1: movie is so respectful of who she is and like

1154
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 1: gives you a full picture of who she is. And

1155
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 1: so I wasn't ultimately like I don't know, like piste

1156
01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: off or extremely bothered that she wasn't in it more.

1157
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: I would have liked it. But but if like the

1158
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: time she's on screen is he's really really thoughtfully. I

1159
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: think same applies to Thomas's grandmother and who's I don't

1160
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: think we ever learned her first name, but um, and

1161
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 1: and Arlene as well her yeah, and Victor's mom Arlene

1162
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:36,639
Speaker 1: where we don't get all that much screen time with them,

1163
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,919
Speaker 1: but when we do, the storytelling and the character development

1164
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,920
Speaker 1: is so effective and economical that you, you know, you

1165
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 1: understand these characters, you feel their struggle. Yeah, you're just

1166
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: you're compelled by their presence on screen. So so it

1167
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:59,240
Speaker 1: ultimately is a movie about fathers and sons. However, it's

1168
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: unlike many movies about fathers and sons. The women who

1169
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 1: are in the movie are fully realized characters that have

1170
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,920
Speaker 1: kind of a whole range of viewpoints and generations and like,

1171
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of variety in the women that we see,

1172
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 1: and then there are moments that are about mothers and

1173
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 1: sons and grandmothers and sons. And even if it's not

1174
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:25,439
Speaker 1: the thrust of the movie, I appreciate that it's there. Indeed,

1175
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 1: I just wish there was more. Yeah, that's kind of

1176
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: kind of my only critique. I do. I agree. I

1177
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:33,679
Speaker 1: wish we had gotten more time with Susie. I also

1178
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: wish for not wish. I think that the story could

1179
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: have still been effective even without her being like and

1180
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:42,200
Speaker 1: he used to eye me like, I don't know that

1181
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 1: has every time I watched that, I'm just like I

1182
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 1: could do with that, especially with the I know we're

1183
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: not talking about the Sherman Alexei stuff, but I was like, yeah, ye,

1184
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:57,639
Speaker 1: should we talk about the Sherman Alexey? I mean maybe

1185
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:01,840
Speaker 1: just to mention that I think it was in I'm

1186
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: guessing in light of me too. He was accused of

1187
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: sexual harassment by multiple women, many people. Yeah, it's very

1188
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 1: disappointing because I have read several of his books and

1189
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 1: they were very relatable and very important to me. So

1190
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: it's very disappointing whatever stuff like that happens. So just

1191
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:28,440
Speaker 1: why you know, Uh, But yeah, back to Susie, Um,

1192
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 1: I just wish we would have had more of her.

1193
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:33,439
Speaker 1: I also liked the way the conversation ran, because again

1194
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,839
Speaker 1: it's kind of how conversations with a lot of elders

1195
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 1: girl like who are you, where you're from, who's your family?

1196
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,559
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah. Not quite what's the worst thing you've

1197
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:47,480
Speaker 1: ever done? But I liked the familiarity in their interaction

1198
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,680
Speaker 1: and whatever she did interact with Thomas and Victor. I

1199
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:53,960
Speaker 1: think in the beginning maybe it was like maybe a

1200
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,839
Speaker 1: little flirtatious, you could argue that, but it also felt like, um,

1201
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 1: cousins at one point like they had become so familiar

1202
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: because they have a shared relative between the three of

1203
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 1: them essentially, So I liked that feeling of it as well.

1204
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 1: So well, I do wish we had more of her.

1205
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,600
Speaker 1: I think her time in the film was very effective.

1206
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: I'm very memorable too, for sure. Yeah. Does anyone have

1207
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: any other thoughts they'd like to share. I'm just so

1208
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 1: happy that you guys watched this film, and hopefully after

1209
01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:28,000
Speaker 1: this episode more people will go watch it and support

1210
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:33,360
Speaker 1: native films and TV shows. We're coming out, you know.

1211
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, And this movie is streaming on Showtime right now.

1212
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,960
Speaker 1: So if you're running your damn mouth about Yellow Jackets,

1213
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 1: you gotta watch Smoke Signals because I'm not watching Yellow Jackets.

1214
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: I'm tired. Yes, please check out this movie. If you've

1215
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,280
Speaker 1: listened to the episode and you haven't already seen it,

1216
01:14:54,680 --> 01:15:00,559
Speaker 1: give it a watch. Other indigenous filmmakers and creators check

1217
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: out their stuff, check out their their media and their art.

1218
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is Smoviie pass the Becktel test. It

1219
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 1: definitely passes the Bechtel test. But do do does it that?

1220
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 1: My question is, do we ever find out what the

1221
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:22,360
Speaker 1: names of the women in the car are Oh, that's

1222
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 1: a good question, because their names IMDb. But you're right,

1223
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 1: I don't remember if anybody says their names to them.

1224
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 1: I think that they so that caveat, and I'm always like, oh, well,

1225
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:36,519
Speaker 1: that usually means is it. Is it a character who

1226
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: is only on screen for like five seconds and they

1227
01:15:39,240 --> 01:15:42,040
Speaker 1: say like two words kind of thing. They have a

1228
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:46,639
Speaker 1: full extended scene and are like significant enough. I'm willing

1229
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 1: to give it a pass. I'm just saying, it's not

1230
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: hard to say someone's name. Um, sure, Yeah, I think

1231
01:15:53,439 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 1: on IMDb, is it Lucy and Velma? So those are

1232
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: those characters names acording to IMDb, yet don't I don't

1233
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,800
Speaker 1: think they're said aloud in the film, but they are

1234
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 1: given names in the script presumably, so I would say

1235
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,879
Speaker 1: that counts. And they have a whole conversation about drinking

1236
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:20,200
Speaker 1: cokes and and they're just vibing. They're vibing in the car.

1237
01:16:20,360 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 1: It's really fun. I feel it. It also passes the

1238
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:28,559
Speaker 1: ALT task absolutely. Shout out to the ALT test. Shout

1239
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 1: out to Ali Noddy And as far as our nipple

1240
01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: scale goes zero to five nipples. Based on an examination

1241
01:16:36,560 --> 01:16:41,400
Speaker 1: of the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I would say,

1242
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:46,720
Speaker 1: even though this is a story focused on male characters

1243
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: and their relationship, like the core narrative is about like

1244
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: a reconciliation between different male characters, that's okay for a

1245
01:16:57,439 --> 01:17:01,080
Speaker 1: movie to be about that if if you do it well,

1246
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:05,479
Speaker 1: and you do it like and if you examine that thoughtfully.

1247
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,599
Speaker 1: So even though women are not necessary the driving force

1248
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 1: of the story doesn't really bother me in this or

1249
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 1: a movie like this, where it's well written and in

1250
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 1: a well crafted story, That's what I like to see

1251
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 1: more movies driven by Native women. It's not the job

1252
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: of one movie to do everything, obviously, but definitely would

1253
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 1: like to see more and more of that as well. Certainly. Um,

1254
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:38,360
Speaker 1: even so, I think that this movie is just really

1255
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 1: compelling and that it is, like I said, a movie

1256
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: that either lets some people see themselves represented on screen

1257
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: in a very meaningful and thoughtful way, and for other

1258
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:56,200
Speaker 1: people it's a chance to let them learn about a

1259
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 1: culture that they might not already be familiar with. So yeah,

1260
01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 1: I think it's fantastic, And I'll give the movie. I'll

1261
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 1: give it four nipples, and I will give one two

1262
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:16,680
Speaker 1: Susie Song. I will give one two Thomas's grandma, I

1263
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 1: will give one to Arlene, and I'll split the last

1264
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 1: one between our friends Velma and Lucy. In the car

1265
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:29,519
Speaker 1: driving backwards, Um, I will go. I'll go for as well.

1266
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I just this movie is so wonderful for

1267
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,880
Speaker 1: such a wide variety of reasons. We were having a

1268
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 1: conversation last night about like movies that are very very

1269
01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 1: watchable and rewatchable, and this movie is so watchable and

1270
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 1: manages to tackle so much and if you are not

1271
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: familiar with a lot of Native culture, not to say

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01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: that it's um, you know, it's obviously very regionally specific,

1273
01:18:56,520 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 1: but I feel like there's a lot that non nat

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01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:02,800
Speaker 1: To viewers can learn. Well, there's like it's just there's

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01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 1: there's just so many good things going on in this movie.

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01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: And it's also really fucking fun in spite of a

1277
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:15,040
Speaker 1: lot of the heavier themes. The performances rock. I love Thomas,

1278
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: I love Susie. I mean, did I text I texted

1279
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:24,439
Speaker 1: you that Thomas aka the actor Evan Adams is like

1280
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 1: a dead ringer for a guy I used to date,

1281
01:19:27,200 --> 01:19:29,240
Speaker 1: and so I like the second I saw him on screen,

1282
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:31,839
Speaker 1: I was like, I have a crush on him already

1283
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 1: and he hasn't said a single word anyway. Sorry to

1284
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: interrupt to talk about my heterosexual crush boring, but that said,

1285
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:44,200
Speaker 1: Evan Adams is uh my head or a sexual crush.

1286
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: So any ways, uh kaylie, I mean I think we've

1287
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,880
Speaker 1: we've we've covered it. I mean, I'll dock get a

1288
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 1: nipple because I do think that there was a little

1289
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 1: more space to include Susie a little more. Uh, wouldn't

1290
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:04,080
Speaker 1: I killed the movie to include the names of the

1291
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,559
Speaker 1: women driving backward in the car, little things like that,

1292
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,320
Speaker 1: And I think there was room for for women a

1293
01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:12,760
Speaker 1: little more in this movie. But the story that is

1294
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 1: told is so beautiful and does include women pretty significantly,

1295
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:20,520
Speaker 1: And it's just I don't know, just like a very

1296
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to selve me on a movie

1297
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: that's ultimately about fathers and sons, but this is this

1298
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:29,879
Speaker 1: movie is like undeniable because it tackles the topic so

1299
01:20:30,439 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: thoughtfully and it's such an emotional journey. Um. And I

1300
01:20:35,560 --> 01:20:37,599
Speaker 1: think that there is a lot to be said for

1301
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:43,240
Speaker 1: the men feeling their feelings and processing emotions in movies.

1302
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 1: You don't get a lot of movies that are about

1303
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 1: men processing their emotions towards each other, like without beating

1304
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: each other. Well, I guess young Victor does. They were kids,

1305
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:58,040
Speaker 1: but then they grow and then they have this beautiful

1306
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: emotional And I also appreciate that at the end it's

1307
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: not implied that they're going to be best friends. Now.

1308
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 1: I always feel like it's kind of like goofy when

1309
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,360
Speaker 1: it's like two people who are they're not going to

1310
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: like hang out every day, but they're good. They've they're

1311
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: like they've made their peace with each other. They'll always

1312
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 1: have love for each other, even though it's not like

1313
01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 1: we're not going to chill every day. Though, you know,

1314
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:25,439
Speaker 1: like I played basketball together all the time. Thomas has

1315
01:21:25,479 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: to go do Thomas things. He's busy, especially trying on suits.

1316
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 1: He has more suities to wear. I'll go for nipples

1317
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:37,760
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna, yeah, give one to each of the

1318
01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 1: women driving backwards. I'm gonna give one to Susie and

1319
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give one to Thomas Olivia. How about you?

1320
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: So I also agree with the four nipples. I think

1321
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,679
Speaker 1: I only dock a nipple because while the women are

1322
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 1: portrayed in a very nuanced way, in circular way, Um,

1323
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,840
Speaker 1: you know in real life women talk to each um

1324
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 1: and not only famously. I have to see it to

1325
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: believe it. But uh, not only joy which Susie had

1326
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,920
Speaker 1: more time, but I think there would have also been

1327
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 1: room to see Grandma and Arlene talk to each other, definitely,

1328
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 1: just because to me it feels more realistic either talking

1329
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:21,520
Speaker 1: about their kids, are talking about aren't or just gossiping

1330
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 1: like that's That's the only reason why I want to

1331
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 1: give it a full five nipple maybe, like you know what,

1332
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:28,200
Speaker 1: I'm wouna do a four and a half because this

1333
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 1: is also a nostalgic movie for me, it holds a

1334
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: very easier place in my heart. Um So I'm gonna

1335
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: do four and a half. I'm gonna give to to

1336
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,920
Speaker 1: Grandma because we love the grandma's in our community. I'm

1337
01:22:41,920 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 1: gonna give one to Arlene because she work in real hard,

1338
01:22:46,720 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 1: and then one to Victor, one to Thomas, and then

1339
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 1: the half to Victor. Love it. I don't think you

1340
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 1: can Victor any Yeah, Victor was, he was hurting. Thanks

1341
01:22:57,439 --> 01:23:00,920
Speaker 1: for helping him out. Also, so as you can tell,

1342
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:03,600
Speaker 1: I don't have the same accent they do because I

1343
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,760
Speaker 1: grew up on that reservation. But super quick story. Uh,

1344
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, I auditioned for a

1345
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,680
Speaker 1: radio play that wanted to do that type of accents.

1346
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 1: So you know how like whatever you try to do

1347
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:16,160
Speaker 1: an accent, you have a phrase that you do a

1348
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 1: Victor and I was just going around my house Victor Victor.

1349
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:25,120
Speaker 1: I love the every time they would say a sentence

1350
01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 1: and then say ain't it And it's a little kind

1351
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:30,679
Speaker 1: of like vocal filler. Also shout out to my favorite

1352
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,080
Speaker 1: joke of the whole movie where Victor comes into cash's

1353
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,799
Speaker 1: check from his mom. Thomas is, it's like in a

1354
01:23:36,880 --> 01:23:40,080
Speaker 1: like a store, a market. Thomas was there and he says, Oh,

1355
01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:42,719
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear about your dad, And Victor

1356
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: is like, how did you hear about that? And he's like,

1357
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 1: I heard it on the wind, I felt it in

1358
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:50,840
Speaker 1: the sunlight, I heard it in the trees. And also

1359
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:56,120
Speaker 1: your mom wasn't here crying about it. Also my favorite

1360
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:59,640
Speaker 1: joke to um well, Olivia, thank you so much for

1361
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 1: join us and being here to talk about this movie.

1362
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 1: It was such a delight. Where can people check you

1363
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 1: out on social media if there's anything else you'd like

1364
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 1: to plug plug away? Absolutely, thank you for having me

1365
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,439
Speaker 1: on this is so much fun. Um. As you can tell,

1366
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 1: I love this movie, so I'm always willing to talk

1367
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:22,360
Speaker 1: about it. Um. You can follow me on all socials, Twitter, Instagram,

1368
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: TikTok um. Here's your name is the same across all three.

1369
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 1: It is at Live Native ninety three. That is L

1370
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 1: I V and A t I V E nine three. Um.

1371
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,000
Speaker 1: And I also am a content writer for a tribe

1372
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 1: called geek website. I recommend checking out. They have partnered

1373
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: with Red Planet, which also produces like common Indigenous comic books.

1374
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: So we just had like a really fun, fun meeting

1375
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 1: about a week ago just discuss our goals. So I

1376
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:55,200
Speaker 1: recommend checking that out if you want to know about

1377
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 1: Native maybea and comic books and movies and all that

1378
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 1: fun stuff. So yeah, tried call dot com incredible. I

1379
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:04,760
Speaker 1: supposed to shout out one more fun fact that we

1380
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,640
Speaker 1: didn't I did. I didn't find a moment to touch on.

1381
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:11,959
Speaker 1: But Evan Adams, who plays Thomas, he's a doctor now

1382
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 1: he's but he still does bit parts in movies. But

1383
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 1: he went to medical school in two thousand and two,

1384
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 1: so like a couple years. Because I was like, why

1385
01:25:21,439 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 1: haven't I seen him in more we talked about all

1386
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:25,599
Speaker 1: of the actors who really blew up. And it's not

1387
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:28,639
Speaker 1: for any lack of any I mean, he just became

1388
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 1: a doctor and as often he is the chief Medical

1389
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 1: Officer of the First Nation's Health Authority in British Columbia,

1390
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: so he's like an s TR doctor, so shouts out

1391
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 1: even he contains multitudes. Wow, yeah, that makes me feel

1392
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 1: not great about my accomplishments. I'm not a doctor yet,

1393
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: but no. Seriously, um, Olivia, thank you so much for

1394
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 1: being here. Come back any time, and you can follow

1395
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,640
Speaker 1: us on social media at spectel Cast on Twitter and Instagram.

1396
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:07,000
Speaker 1: You can go to our Matreon gets you two episodes

1397
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,560
Speaker 1: a month. You get access to the back catalog of

1398
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,680
Speaker 1: all the episodes and that could be found at patreon

1399
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: dot com slash Bechtel Cast, and you can get our

1400
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 1: merch at the public dot com slash the Becktel Cast

1401
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 1: if you're so inclined. And with that, let's get in

1402
01:26:27,080 --> 01:26:32,600
Speaker 1: the pickup truck and go home to mommy room room

1403
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: Zoom zoom, by bye.