1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: one never told you, but actually I heart radio and 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: today I come with new Samantha. Oh my god, I'm 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: ready give me that. Yes, so we might come back 5 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: and do a whole episode on this. But you probably 6 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: saw recently there were headlines about a news study around 7 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: the clutterest, yes, and some updates, and it was kind 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: of it started a conversation which you and I have 9 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: a lot on this show about how a lot of 10 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: medicine and a lot of science is still sexist because 11 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: there's so much we don't know about the clutterest. In 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, it is still misunderstood, um, a 13 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: mysterious thing. Meanwhile, we have like untold studies on the penis, 14 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: like so many penis. Yes, there is a huge scientific 15 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: gap on studies on scientific studies when it comes to 16 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: the penis versus the clitterest, and there's a huge knowledge 17 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: gap between it. Um that I think I I can 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: speak from personal experience. I still I didn't know a 19 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: lot until I started working on this show, and I'm 20 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: still learning. So uh yeah, we're still learning more about 21 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: the clitter ist. And I just want to briefly run 22 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: through what they found in the study. But like I said, 23 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: we'll probably come back and talk about it more in 24 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: depth later. But more than ten thousand nerve fibers enabled 25 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: the pleasurable sensations created by the human clitterest And this 26 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: is according to new um research from the Oregon Health 27 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: and Science University. So this was the first known count 28 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: of human culatoral nerve tiss you and that's I thought 29 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: I had heard eight thousand previously, I believe. Yeah, it's 30 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: often quoted as eight thousand nerd fibers and claris, but 31 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: this is even more. I've just heard thousands, and I 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: never knew the range because that's a difference between a 33 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,519 Speaker 1: thousand to ten thousand for sure. Yes, and it's way 34 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: more than the penis. Everybody. Yeah, And just again to 35 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: to drive this point home, that eight thousand number came 36 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: from studies on livestock animals, not people. It is just 37 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: to reiterate this as well. The only known organ where 38 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: the whole point is pleasure. Uh again, take that penis 39 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: and you all know, because I won't shut up about it, 40 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: that's primarily when I masturbate, it's all clatoral because that's 41 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: where it's happening. Why am I not recording those because that? 42 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: Oh my god. I was like, we're just gonna do 43 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: an update. We don't need to record this sorr. I'm 44 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: always like, should I give me content? Worry? I don't 45 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: feel feel like the episodes is about the clitterest. You 46 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: should know anyway. Oh my god, it's amazing. Yes, that's 47 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: always with the T and mine from me on that one. 48 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: But this is really fascinating, interesting news. I'm glad we're 49 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: we're looking into this. I'm excited interested to see what 50 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: else we can learn. Uh and yeah, well we'll come 51 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: back and revisit it in the future, but in the meantime, 52 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff Mom Never 53 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: Told You from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and 54 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and 55 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: we are going to talk all about the Clitterest today, 56 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Everything you never knew that you wanted 57 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: to know about the clitterest will be revealed in this podcast. 58 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: That's right, in a safer work format, very safe for work. Yeah, 59 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: Caroline and I learned lots of stuff along the way, 60 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: and I think it's important for everybody to learn more 61 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: about the clitterest, which, by the way, can we just 62 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: start off with one fascinating fact please? The clitterest itself, 63 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: just just the visible part of it outside of our bodies, 64 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: contains eight thousand nerve endings. That's more than twice on 65 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: the head of a penis s guys, not to not 66 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: to make you jealous, but not to toot our own horn. 67 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: I feel like this podcast is going to be full 68 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: of euphemisms. It might be. It might be, but let's uh, 69 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: we got a long way to go before we get 70 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: up to those eight thousand nerve endings. Let's go back 71 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: in time, Caroline, shall do? Yeah? We we first want 72 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: to talk about where this word came from, what does 73 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: it mean? And it actually didn't originate until the seventeenth century, 74 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: which is interesting. This word has not been around forever, 75 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: but it was coined from the Late Greek word clay torris. 76 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: And I assume that we will get some correction letters 77 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: if we mispronounced the following Greek words that were about 78 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: to say, because you might not know this, but I 79 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: am not Greek, yes, and nor am I Caroline uh, 80 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: and that's clear us with a K and there's a 81 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: word clayenne in Greek which means to sheath, also to shut, 82 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: so something it might come from that because of the 83 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: reference to the clitterest being covered by the laby a menorah. 84 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: And then there's also though a related Greek noun form plice, 85 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: which has a meaning of a key, latch or hook 86 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: to close a door. And then there's another Greek word 87 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: that it could come from that is a variant of 88 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 1: the word meaning side of a hill. It's related to 89 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: the verb to slope, from the same a root word 90 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: as climax caroline. I think that one is my favorite, 91 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: although there are some ancient medical sources that also say 92 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: that there is a Greek verb clyde ri izing that 93 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: means to touch or to late lasciviously, to tickle well kristen. 94 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 1: Speaking of tickling, the Germans have my favorite slang word 95 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 1: for the clitterest, which is der kitzler, which means the tickler, yes, 96 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,919 Speaker 1: indeed yeah. And even just the slang clit originated in 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, although I have a feeling that whoever 98 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 1: was in the nineteen fifties saying the word clit was 99 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: probably just scandalizing everyone. So scandalous. So there there's a 100 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: little background on the word clitter iss why we call 101 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: it the clitterest. But let's go back in time as 102 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: well and cover some CLIs story. How did we even 103 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: figure out what this terrist is all about? I mean, 104 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: obviously women were probably figuring out what this clitterest was 105 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: all about for a long time, but women weren't exactly 106 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: prominent members of the medical field until more recent history. 107 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: So let's start in fifteen fifty nine with with one 108 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: of my favorite characters in this episode, an Italian anatomist, 109 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: Roaldo Columbo. Yeah, so of course a man would claim 110 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: to have discovered the clitterest. And I like that his 111 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: last name is Columbo Kristin because if his name were 112 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: in English texts around that time, it would have been Columbus. 113 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: And so I just liked the idea of the parallel 114 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: between like Christopher Columbus claiming to have discovered the New 115 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: World when really there were already people there, and then 116 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: you have Rialdo Columbus claiming to have discovered the Clitterest 117 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: when plenty of women were already there. So he's the 118 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: Christopher Columbus of the glitters Clistopher Columbus. Yes, God, I 119 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: wish we had art to accompany this episode of these 120 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: explorers and these scientists. But anyway, so, yeah, he's this 121 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: anatomist who says that he discovered it, and there were 122 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: some researchers at a New Zealand university who were like, no, 123 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: it was already quite known to Greek, Persian and Arabic 124 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: writers on medicine and surgery all about, albeit with misconceptions 125 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: about its function, which I also think is funny because 126 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: it's like, why are we talking about a body part 127 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: in terms of who knew it first. But that's not 128 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: to say that Colombo slash Columbus didn't actually make some 129 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: sort of contribution to the understanding of what it was. Yeah, 130 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: he was an anatomist, and he did provide these really 131 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: detailed drawings based on human dissection of the clitterists, and 132 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: he was one of the first to describe its physiological properties. 133 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: And although he did think that it produced a type 134 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: of female sperm, and he did, he wasn't really a 135 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: big fan of the literas he called it, the more venerous, 136 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: meaning like the mound of love. So he was also 137 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: very much focused on the pleasurable aspects of the Clitterest. So, 138 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: although Colombo did mistakenly claim that he was the first 139 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: one there, at least he liked it. Yes, not everybody 140 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: can say that he liked it, but I mean, I 141 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: think his whole person well, he was far from the 142 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: only person who thought or positive that the clators produced 143 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: some type of female sperm or or played some role 144 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: in procreation. Um, but I think he's unique in the 145 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: fact that he also really dug it. Yeah, other other 146 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: medical or scientific writers at the time we're like, well, 147 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 1: we think that it could produce sperm and contribute to procreation, 148 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: but we don't like it. Well, if you go way 149 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: back before Colombo to say Aristotle, they I mean, he 150 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: wasn't really talking all that much about the clitterest. But really, 151 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: this is when you have the idea of women being 152 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: just mutilated men are clitterest is really just a vestige 153 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: of what should be a penis. Yeah, it makes me 154 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: think of that song from a Little Mermaid, Poor Unfortunate Souls, 155 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: Like that's kind of how Aristotle and Hippocrates saw women. 156 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: So yeah, Aristotle just thought that there were adverse uterine 157 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: conditions that basically turned what should have become a beautiful 158 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: functional penis into an underdeveloped and sterile stump of a clitterest. 159 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: And Hippocrates, the old Greek father of medicine, described women's 160 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: genitalia on the whole as just our shameful parts. So 161 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,319 Speaker 1: thanks a lot. And he acknowledged that the clitterest existed, 162 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: but he just thought it was a random protrusion. He 163 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: referred to it as the colamela or the uvula, possibly 164 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: because it resembles the uvula in our threat. It's a 165 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: little punching bag and you see if you open open 166 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: your mouth. Well obviously, I mean, the uvula definitely doesn't 167 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: contribute to sex or procreation, so why would this tiny 168 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 1: protrusion have anything to do with it either. Um. Greek 169 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: physicians Serranos of Ephesus also does acknowledge the clitterists exists. Um. 170 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: He has a different description for it, other than the 171 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: shameful parts, thank god. Uh. He says. The small formation 172 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: is called the nymph because it is hidden underneath the labia, 173 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: such as young brides under their veils. Well, isn't that precious? 174 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: So precious little nymph is. But I think it should 175 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: be noted though, that while these guys essentially we're seeing 176 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: women as sort of the mutilated men. We we should 177 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: we could have had gorgeous penises, but instead we ended 178 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: up with tiny nymph siding under veils. Because it wasn't 179 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: until in fact, the eighteenth century the European scientists started 180 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: seeing men and women as distinct sexes. This was really 181 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: just the line of thought that like, Okay, we have 182 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: a guy here, so we're going to figure out women 183 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: based on what she doesn't have, based on his body. 184 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: But then, I mean, things also got pretty intense in 185 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages, understandably because it is the Middle Ages, right, 186 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: a lot of superstition flying around, and you know, despite 187 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: the relative and and minor advances and understanding what this 188 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: nymph is during the preceding centuries, the physicians in the 189 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: Middle Ages relied more on fear and superstition. Uh. They 190 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: did also think that it was responsible for creating female sperm. 191 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: But in fourteen eighties six, the Malleus Maleficarum, which was 192 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: a guide to finding and detecting witches, called the clitterest 193 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: quote the Devil's teet, through which the devil sucked out 194 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: his victim's soul. So yeah, we are women are just 195 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: no matter what we do of just being aligned with 196 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,079 Speaker 1: witchcraft and evil and the devil's teet. I don't even 197 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: I When I read that, Caroline, and preparing for this episode, 198 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: I just had to stop for a moment because the 199 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: images coming to my mind were quite intense. But moving 200 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: out of the Middle Ages and into the nineteenth century, 201 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: we were in one of the history books that we 202 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 1: read focusing on the history of the Clitterest. The author wrote, 203 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century really should have been the Clitterests century, 204 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: and that the Clitterest century. I'm not making that up 205 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: that as a direct quote, because in eighteen forty four 206 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: we have this German guy G. L co Belt draw 207 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: a detailed Clitterests, not just the external clitterest but also 208 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,839 Speaker 1: the internal structure of well as well, which included the 209 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: erectile tissues that we'll talk about more in a little bit. 210 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: And this was probably the very first accurate depiction of 211 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: what the clitterest in total looks like. But it turns 212 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: out that the nineteenth century and moving into the Victorian 213 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: era was not such a great time for the clitters well. 214 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: I mean, you also had to grapple with the general 215 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: fear that people had about women in general, specifically and 216 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: especially women's sexuality, because God forbid a woman actually want, crave, 217 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: or enjoy any type of sexual behavior. So it was 218 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: also kind of just assumed that in general, women were passionless, 219 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: they didn't have a sex drive, they were just basically 220 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: sperm vessels, um, and that if a woman did have 221 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: a sex drive, she was considered hysterical and she didn't 222 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: have to go to see a doctor and get treatment, 223 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: and that treatment was a vibrator. Yeah. The the vibrator 224 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: technology started to take off in the eighteen fifties, and 225 00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: in extreme cases of nymphamania, wherein you have a woman 226 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: who actually enjoys sex and might even masturbate from time 227 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: to time, you would have doctors cauterizing or removing the 228 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: clitterest entirely. There were a lot of methods out there 229 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: for curing in quotes, hysteria through clar ectomy. Ees. Yeah, 230 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's such a scary but very 231 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: clear illustration of how women's sexuality was viewed. The fact 232 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: that it's like it's so abnormal for a woman to 233 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: like or want sex that it's like if she does, oh, 234 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: we better take off the parts that make or enjoy 235 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: it well, and there are still there's still cliarorectomies that 236 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: are going on as well in different parts of the world. 237 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: You hear about this when people talk about female genital 238 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: mutilation or female circumcision. This was also we we we 239 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: usually today probably in the US, think about it happening 240 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: in far away countries such as Sedan, but this was 241 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: happening also in Victorian era America, right. But during this 242 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: period some people were all about the clatorus. They understood 243 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: that it served a great purpose. In eighteen fifty two, 244 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: for instance, Dr Jules Guillot wrote a book about sexuality 245 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: that wasn't actually published until eighteen eighty eight, ten years 246 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: after his death, because it was so scandalous, and he 247 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: wrote that there exists an immense number of ignorant, egoistic, 248 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: brutal men who do not bother to study the instrument 249 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: that God has entrusted to them well. And one of 250 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: those arguably egoistic and brutal men was likely Dr Isaac 251 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: Baker Brown, who was president of the Medical Society of 252 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: London in the eighteen sixties, and in eighteen sixty five 253 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: he published what became a widely circulated medical book that 254 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: put forth his ideas for curing insanity, epilepsy, hysteria, and 255 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: catalepsy all through clitter ectomy. Ees. Yeah, And it's interesting 256 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: too to read about people's views from this time period 257 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: because we have Dr Pierre Garnier, who was definitely not 258 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: a fan uh and didn't believe that the clitterest could 259 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: or should contribute to any type of like sex life 260 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: between people or solo sex lives at that He said 261 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: that to claim that this minuscule apparatus, which is most 262 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 1: often an insensitive little button so long as it has 263 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: not been touched or artificially manipulated, is the most active 264 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:37,679 Speaker 1: erogenous center is to implicitly accuse all girls of once 265 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: having resorted to masturbation or of one day becoming debauched. 266 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: So I mean, right there, you have this doctor who's 267 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: basically saying, like the fact that you were even insinuating 268 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: that it is part of sex, part of sexual activity 269 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: can make someone enjoy sex. That's implying that our beautiful, fragile, 270 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: angelic nymph like women that they're debauched. Well, it's telling 271 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: to that that quote came in eighteen ninety one, which 272 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: is a few years after something really important happened in 273 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: the history the medical history of the clitter ist because 274 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty four doctors were able to see procreation 275 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: the sperm fertilizing the egg on a microscopic level for 276 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: the very first time, and they realized that, okay, there's 277 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: no such thing as female sperm, Like the lubricant in 278 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: a woman's vaginal canal has nothing to do really with uh, 279 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't have any kind of fertilizing qualities, and it 280 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: doesn't come from the clitterest. And oh my god, the 281 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: clitterest has absolutely nothing active lead to do with reproduction. 282 00:18:55,880 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 1: So why should we even care about it? Well, why 283 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: should we care about it? But also, oh god, you 284 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: mean women have something on their bodies that is just 285 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: for sexual pleasure exactly. And so not only did they 286 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: demonize it because that means if you're messing around with 287 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: your clarteris that is because it gives you sexual pleasure. 288 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: Therefore you are debauched, as Guardier wrote, and then also 289 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: medically they were like, oh, well, we don't really even 290 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: need to study it because it is it's useless. It's 291 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: like the appendix of the vagina. Thank god, it can't explode. 292 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: Um ideas about women's sexuality, though it's not like they 293 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: were so much better. When we get into the twentieth 294 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: century um around World War One, there was this case 295 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: of a dancer named maud Allen who was essentially attacked 296 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: for existing outside social norms sexual norms, and of course 297 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: by that I just mean, you know, she had sexuality 298 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: and danced. She was an exotic dancer who attracted a 299 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 1: lot of attention because during this period that was very scandalous. 300 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: It also so happened that she was a lesbian, and 301 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: this sensational libel trial in Britain exploded around maud Allen 302 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: when she brought a libel suit against this guy named 303 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: Noel Pemberton Billing, who was an editor of a right 304 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: wing journal, The Imperialist, and the Imperialist was claiming that 305 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: there was this black book of forty seven thousand World 306 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: War One British turn coats who had been turned gay 307 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: by the Germans. And since maud Allen was a lesbian 308 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: and was also performing in Oscar Wilde salam Ay, there 309 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,880 Speaker 1: was this item in The Imperialist about if you went 310 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: to see maud Allen, dancer highly erotic at the time, 311 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: dances in this production of salamy that you would be 312 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: among some of those British turncoats. And he headlined this 313 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: little news item the cult of the clitteris Yeah, which 314 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: is funny to see this anxiety, this deep, deep anxiety 315 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: which I get social norms, gender norms wore all of 316 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: this good stuff going on. It's quite a melting pot 317 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,959 Speaker 1: of of you know, all these things getting stirred up. 318 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: But she maud Allen was so popular that they had 319 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: to continue adding shows. And she was so popular, and 320 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: not just with gentlemen who were coming to watch her 321 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: dance in such a seductive fashion. I mean women, socialites, 322 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: mothers were bringing their daughters to see this woman perform 323 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: with their own set of binoculars to further examine her dances. So, 324 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,919 Speaker 1: I mean, that's got to be anxiety inducing for a 325 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: guy like Pemberton Billing, who you know, he's like, oh 326 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: my gosh, society, it's changing. Women are going to see 327 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: women dance. Well. It's interesting too that in this five 328 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: day t aile that ensues a lot of Britain's didn't 329 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: even know what clitterests meant, right, because he assumed that 330 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: when he made that headline the cult of the clitterest, 331 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: and he was right. You know, not a lot of 332 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: people would know what it meant, but if you did 333 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: know what clitterists meant, then that meant he would deviant, right, 334 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: And so Billings actually cited Alan's familiarity with the term 335 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: clitterest as evidence that she was a deviant. He said 336 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: that it's an organ that, when unduly excited, possessed the 337 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: most dreadful influence on any woman. And so just this 338 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: combination in his mind of her being a lesbian, an 339 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: exotic dancer, and someone with knowledge of such an esoteric 340 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: term as glitterest, she's got to be a sexual deviant, 341 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 1: and she's got to be somehow in cahoots with the Germans. Well, 342 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: and if we step back a little bit to nineteen 343 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: o five, we have Sigmund Freud coming in dealing yet 344 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 1: another blow to the litteralists, because this is when he 345 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: puts forth the idea that if you are a woman 346 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: who is having clitteral as opposed to vaginal orgasms, then 347 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: that means that you are not developed, that you're like 348 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: stuck in adolescence. Yeah, he was one of many physicians 349 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: and clinicians and psychologists who didn't deny the existence of 350 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: the clitteral orgasm, but said that that is something that 351 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: adolescence do. Children do adult mature women only have vaginal orgasms, 352 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: and um, a woman who could not orgasm through vaginal 353 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: intercourse was obviously frigid. And that frigid was a term. 354 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: It wasn't just like an insult thrown around. I mean, 355 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: that was a term used to describe a whole slew 356 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: of women. Yeah. And there is a paper that we 357 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: were looking at called Waking Sleeping Beauty the pre Marital 358 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: Pelvic Exam and had her sexuality during the Cold War, 359 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: and it talked a lot about how doctors at this time, 360 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: i mean leading all the way up to you know, 361 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: and during the Cold War, as the title of the 362 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: paper implies, vaginal orgasms were considered to be the hallmark 363 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: in the bedroom of a stable marriage and thus of 364 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: a secure community. Yeah. So more, you know, just more norms, 365 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: norms everywhere, Kristen. So, now that we are into the 366 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: Cold War, by way of this paper that Kristen decided, 367 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: we obviously have to bring up famed sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, 368 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: who in nine publishes Sexual Behavior in the Human Female, 369 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: in which he dismissed the vaginal orgasm and pointed to 370 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: the clitterest as the source of pleasure. He wrote that 371 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: the vagina walls are quite insensitive to the great majority 372 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: of females. There is no evidence that the vagina is 373 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: ever the sole source of arousal, or even the primary 374 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: source of erotic arousal in any female, which was groundbreaking. Yeah, 375 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: and then masters of sex fans might be aware of 376 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: William Masters and Virginia Johnson's research that happens in the 377 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: mid to late nineteen sixties. And it's in sixties six 378 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: that they published their work on the phases of sexual stimulation, 379 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: and they observed that both vaginal and clitteral orgasms had 380 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: the same stages of physical response and argued that clteral 381 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: stimulation was the primary source of both kinds of orgasms. 382 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: So finally, finally we have people saying, you know what, 383 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: the clitter is ist is not so bad. In fact, 384 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: it is in many ways good. It is in many 385 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: ways good. And then two years later, in nineteen radical 386 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: feminist and Coat writes the myth of the vaginal orgasm 387 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: and say, what right does the main Caroline She basically 388 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: attacked as fraudulent the idea that women could only orgasm 389 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: through vaginal intercourse. She said that the idea that idea 390 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,479 Speaker 1: created psychological problems for women, and it served as a 391 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: critique of heterosexuality in general. And she said that sex 392 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: had been defined for so long from purely a male 393 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: fellow centric perspective. And it's not that she's necessarily wrong, 394 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: but I think Masters and Johnson were way more on 395 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: the nose as far as how orgasms work, because so 396 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: Code is writing that, you know, the vaginal orgasm is 397 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: a total myth that never happens, whereas before people like 398 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,239 Speaker 1: Freud were saying vaginal orgasms are the only way to go, 399 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: when in reality, if we start talking about anatomy, which 400 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: we will hear in a second, there is a whole, beautiful, complicated, 401 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: wonderful internal c literal structure that is stimulated by a 402 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: vaginal intercourse. So it's really not either or, and you guys, 403 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: we don't have to fight about it. We don't have 404 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: to fight about it. But I will say that it 405 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: is worth considering. And I think that this is a 406 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: lot of what Coats theory is getting at in terms 407 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: of the fallow centrism that for so long and even today, 408 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: just the word sex. When you think of sex, it 409 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: is implied that it is a penis going into a vagina, 410 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: and so, in say Freudian terms, in order for a 411 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,919 Speaker 1: woman to be you know, a healthy and adjusted in 412 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: the correct psychoanalytic phase or whatever of her adulthood, that 413 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 1: requires her achieving orgasm through vaginal penetration with a penis 414 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 1: with a penis. So then things are coming around to say, oh, well, 415 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: penis not necessarily required, but there are, like Caroline said, 416 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: there is a lot more to it on the inside, 417 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about in glorious, glorious detail 418 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: when we come right back from a quick break. Kristen, 419 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: you know that feeling you get when you can get 420 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: things done with just the click of your mouth. It 421 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: just can't get any more convenient than that. And now 422 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: you can even get your mailing and shipping done without 423 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: leaving your desk thanks to stamps dot com. 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Alright, So Kristen and I hinted at the well, 440 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: didn't hint, We told you flat out, but there is 441 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: there's a fabulous internal structure going on with your clitterest. 442 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: And you know, I my my whole attitude reading about this, 443 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: the history of the of the study of the clitterest, 444 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: in the in the history of the science of it, 445 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: I just I'm like this, this poor this poor body part. 446 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: It gets no attention. And it's really not until the 447 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: late twentieth century that people even start going should should 448 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: we look inside there? Should we should we figure out 449 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: what's going on up in there, because it turns out 450 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: that all we see on the outside with the hood 451 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: and the glands, that's gland, not gland with a d is, 452 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: but the tip of an iceberg inside of us. Although 453 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: iceberg might not be iceberg kind of lends itself to frigid, 454 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: so that might not be the best analogy. It's the 455 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: tip of something fabulous about that, that's right. So in 456 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties researchers performed an m R I that 457 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: revealed a very elaborate structure to the clearest, most of 458 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: which is internal, and urologist Helen O'Connell described the quote 459 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: clteral complex, the important internal clteral structures and their dimensions 460 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: in a groundbreaking Journal of Urology paper. And it should 461 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: be noted too that there had already been m R 462 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: s of the internal structures of penises that had been 463 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: done in the seventies. And finally O'Connell's like, oh, can 464 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 1: we please apply the same technology to look inside the 465 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: vaginal structures to see what's in there? Because oh surprise, 466 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: there's all of this stuff. Yeah, And in a two 467 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: thousand five paper, O'Connell criticized typical textbook descriptions and illustrations, 468 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: saying that there is no way that you can give 469 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: an accurate portrayal of all of the amazing things that 470 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: are going inside going on inside a woman in their 471 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,239 Speaker 1: c literal structures by just showing a single plane. You know, 472 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: you've seen this in textbooks. It's just like the side 473 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: cut of like here's the uterusm here in the overason, 474 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: there's the vagina in the butthole. But there's I mean, 475 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: there's a whole like amazing sculptural structure going on inside us. 476 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: Who knew? And to give you an idea of the 477 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,479 Speaker 1: scope of this clteral complex that Caroline and I are 478 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: about to jump out of our seats with excitement discussing 479 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: it contains at least eight teen distinct interacting functional parts 480 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: comprised of muscular, erectile, and sensitive tissues. And this is 481 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,479 Speaker 1: what in eight eight four g l co Belt had drawn. 482 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: But it took from then until the late nineties, in 483 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: the early two thousands for us to come back around 484 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: to it and really give it its due right and 485 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: adding to this modern science of the clitter ist. In 486 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, surgeons O'Dell Boissan and Pierre full days 487 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: produced the first complete three dimensional scenography of a stimulated 488 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: clutters Because this is important too, because there's different stages 489 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: of our genitalia, if we are aroused or not, or 490 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: having intercourse or not. Things don't always look the same 491 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: in one stage or another. So they actually did this 492 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: research over a couple of years without any major funding. 493 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: So that should tell you about how people view the 494 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: clutter ists in women's sexuality and genitalia today as well. 495 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: Any who. They were actually going in search of this 496 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: G spot you might have heard of, and they ended 497 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: up just finding all of this other beautiful stuff during 498 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: the search. Yeah. And it turns out, based on what 499 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: we now know about the structure of the clitteral complex, 500 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 1: which will go into more detail in just a second, 501 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,360 Speaker 1: but the G spot might simply be where the anterior 502 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: vaginal wall makes contact with the internal clitterists. It's not 503 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: necessarily this magical spot to one spot and and and 504 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: and that's it, sort of in that two dimensional way 505 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: that we often think of, but rather it's the convergence 506 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: of all of this stuff. I wish I had a 507 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: more elegant word than stuff to describe it going on 508 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: inside of us. Yeah, So let's talk a little bit 509 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: about that stuff. So you have we have the glands 510 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: s glands S, which is what you see on the outside. 511 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: It's what people call a button, but which is really 512 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: like an iceberg, but not an iceberg because we're not frigid. 513 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: It's our little hill. It's our little hill. That's right, 514 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: the ticula. But so okay, here's here's basically a rundown. 515 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: We're going to do our best to describe this with words, 516 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: but I recommend that you look it up for an image. 517 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: Go to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com. There 518 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: is a blog post up called a Brief History of 519 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: the Clitterest and it contains a picture of exactly what 520 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,760 Speaker 1: we're talking about, and it is safe for work. Excellent. Yes, Well, 521 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: because the structure kind of looks like an awesome little 522 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: inner tube with some shoots coming off of it that's 523 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,040 Speaker 1: around the vaginal canal. It reminds me of an airplane 524 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: neck pillow. Perfect when you blow it up. Yeah, it's inflatable. Yeah. 525 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: So the glands, which is what you see on the outside, 526 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: is attached to that internal structure which we're just crazy about. 527 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: And that internal structure is made up of two corpora cavernosa, 528 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: which is a rectile tissue that encircles the vaginal canal. 529 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: The corpora cavernosa then splits to form to what are 530 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: called crura or it's more erectile tissue that forms a 531 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: wishbone shape, and at rest they point toward woman's thighs, 532 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: and when erect they stretch back toward the spine. And 533 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,919 Speaker 1: then near each of the crura on either side of 534 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,760 Speaker 1: the vaginal opening are the clitteral vestibules, and they're actually 535 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: up under the labia majora, so inside the labia majora, 536 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:38,439 Speaker 1: and when engorged, they cause the vulva to expand outward. Yeah, 537 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: and so you know, this is all a bunch of 538 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 1: erectile tissue that does swell when you get aroused, and 539 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: that basically cuffs the vagina so that a vaginal orgasm 540 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: is more like an internal clitteral orgasm. And then we 541 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: can all join hands and be friends and no longer 542 00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: debate a clitteral orgasm versus a vaginal one, because they're 543 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: all sort of different types of the same thing. It's 544 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: just different methods to stimulate the same structure. And I 545 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: do really like how this wrapping around of the structure 546 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: is often described when it becomes engorged as it giving 547 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,759 Speaker 1: us a hug. And what a hug. It's a very 548 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: giving hug. Such a hug. I love that and a 549 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: lot of people, Uh, there are a lot of artists, activists, 550 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: people out there talking about the clitterests and women's genitalia 551 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: in general to sort of bring awareness that hey, we're 552 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: sexual beings to your genitals, aren't gross, get in touch 553 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: with your sexuality and that The whole reason behind this 554 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: push to sort of make more women aware of their 555 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: anatomy is that so many women report having trouble orgasm ng. Yeah, 556 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: about one in three women on average has trouble reaching 557 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: orgasm with a partner. About one in ten has never 558 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: reached orgasm, whether a own or with a partner. And 559 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,360 Speaker 1: what often makes it a challenge is this shame often 560 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 1: associated with our bodies and with our genitals. There are 561 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: women that I have known, in fact, who are adults 562 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: who have never masturbated. Um. There are women who have 563 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: never looked at their own vaginas, or they looked once 564 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: and they were so weirded out by what they saw 565 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: because they didn't know what to expect, or it didn't 566 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 1: look like what they saw in pornography that they assumed 567 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: that it is wrong and it's not the way it's 568 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: supposed to look, and that's that's not the case at all. Right. 569 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: There was a study a study in the Psychology of 570 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 1: Women quarterly that looked at undergrad college women's attitudes towards 571 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 1: their bodies and their genitals that found that greater dissatisfaction 572 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: with genital appearance was associated with things like higher genital image, 573 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: self consciousness during physical intimacy, which in turn was associated 574 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 1: with lower sexual self esteem, sexual satisfaction, and motivation to 575 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: avoid risky sexual behavior. So basically, if you think that 576 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: this important part of yourself is awful, ugly, dirty, shameful, 577 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: or you're afraid of it, then how can you possibly 578 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:19,959 Speaker 1: enjoy sex? And not surprisingly, the researchers concluded that there 579 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,959 Speaker 1: is a strong relationship between in enhancing the satisfaction with 580 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,360 Speaker 1: the natural appearance of genitalia with the development of a 581 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: healthy self concept and long term benefits of sexual safety 582 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: and satisfaction, because a lot of times when that sort 583 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: of insecurity over your genitalia happens, or you don't think 584 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 1: it looks right like, it usually tends to affect you 585 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: in the bedroom in the sense of putting the other 586 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: person's sexual needs and desires over your own. And so 587 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: not surprisingly there is Urchers and concluded that if you 588 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: enhance that satisfaction, if women are more comfortable and accepting 589 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: of what their vaginas and volvas and clitterestas look like, 590 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: then it usually relates to a more satisfying sex life 591 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: and also just a healthier sexual self esteem right exactly. 592 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: And one person who's pushing what she calls cultural cliteracy 593 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: is Susan Ekberg Spirits, who wrote a paper in ten 594 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,200 Speaker 1: for the Berkeley Journal of Gender Law and Justice, and 595 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: she talks about how cultural cliteracy is this thing that 596 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: denotes what an adequately educated person should know about the clitterest, 597 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: which we hope we're contributing to right now. But she 598 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,240 Speaker 1: talks about how the clitterest is quote a despised body 599 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: part because it is an obdurate reminder of women's independence 600 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 1: and power and supports women's liberation. And she talks about 601 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: how society's shape versions of what is proper adult sexual 602 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: reality conforming with values that exist in that society, and 603 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: she says, quote, unfortunately for women, Western culture equates being 604 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 1: human with being male. Accordingly, Western culture considers sex proper 605 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: when it is confined to actions needed to produce children. Yeah, 606 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: and I mean, I just think that there is a 607 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,280 Speaker 1: basic gap and understanding, I mean, clearly, as we've talked 608 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 1: about in this podcast between simply how female sexual pleasure 609 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: even works and how girls are educated in that regard 610 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: versus boys, and how a lot of times our concept 611 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: of what sex is and what sexual pleasure is usually 612 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: is based around the model of vaginal intercourse. Not that 613 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with vaginal intercourse, it's just also important 614 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: for girls and women to understand that we have this 615 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 1: part of our bodies that has, like you said, nothing 616 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,840 Speaker 1: to do with reproduction whatsoever. It is there purely to 617 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: facilitate pleasure and that's nothing to be ashamed of. And 618 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,479 Speaker 1: being curious about it is nothing to be ashamed of, 619 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,240 Speaker 1: and exploring it is nothing to be ashamed of either. 620 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 1: And if you want to check out the ways that 621 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: maybe other women are trying to raise cultural cliteracy awareness, uh, 622 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: you should check out New York artist Sophia Wallace who 623 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: in launched a multimedia project called Cliteracy, and it includes 624 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,240 Speaker 1: all sorts of art installations and even a clip rodeo 625 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,359 Speaker 1: where you can ride like like a bucking bull at 626 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: some sort of honky tonk bar, you can ride a 627 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,439 Speaker 1: giant golden clitter iss. Yeah. And so I do wonder 628 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: if anybody's actually seen that, like gone to it and 629 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: participated in this art movement to ride the clitter well. 630 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 1: And also, I mean that looking at that, this might 631 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: sound crass thinking of oh, riding the clitteress, what of that, 632 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: But the sculpture that she created for this, of that 633 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,920 Speaker 1: engorged internal structure, will give you a sense of the 634 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: extent of the size of it as well. Um, I mean, 635 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: I mean it's not the the external glands is so 636 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,919 Speaker 1: diminutive compared to it's a nymph. Yeah, it is rather 637 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 1: a nymph compared to the powerhouse that is inside of us. So, 638 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,239 Speaker 1: I mean, if we sound like we're super high on 639 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: clitter clitterest knowledge, we are because it's incredible to learn 640 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: about these things inside of us that really it's taken 641 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 1: us this long to really begin to figure out. Right, Well, 642 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,920 Speaker 1: I feel like there's just such a general societal fear 643 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: of and always has been, of women's sexuality and and 644 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: independent sexuality and a desire to want to have sex 645 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: and enjoy it um And I feel like that it's 646 00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: definitely contributed to sort of men being a for aid 647 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,320 Speaker 1: of learning more or knowing more or caring about women's 648 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 1: both both their physical structures and their their sexual excitement. 649 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: But it's also contributed to plenty of women being afraid 650 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: to learn more about it, And so I definitely I'm 651 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:29,920 Speaker 1: glad we could talk about it. Yeah, And I just 652 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: wanted to add one final note about that surgeon Peerful 653 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: Days that we mentioned who in two thousand nine, along 654 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: with his research partner Odeal Bissan, producer's first three D 655 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 1: ultrasounds of the clitterest, he pioneered a surgery using this 656 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: research to treat women who had undergone female genital circumcision, 657 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:59,839 Speaker 1: and by understanding this internal structure of the clitterest, he's 658 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: been able to perform more than three thousand restorative surgeries 659 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,839 Speaker 1: to give these patients back sexual pleasure that had been 660 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: taken from them through the clitter ectomys or other kinds 661 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: of female circumcision techniques. So it's it's it's about female 662 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: pleasure and us knowing more about our bodies, but it's 663 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,879 Speaker 1: also about this kind of healing as well, very real 664 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: physical healing for women around the world too. So with that, 665 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,440 Speaker 1: let us know your thoughts. I'm curious to know what 666 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: people are thinking. Do you love your clitterests? Guys? What 667 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: do you think about the glitter is? There were a 668 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 1: lot of letters that we ran across in the process 669 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: of researching this too, from guys asking sex educators about 670 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,280 Speaker 1: how to find the clitterest when what do you do? 671 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: And that's not a question that you should be ashamed of. 672 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: That's a great question for a straight guy to want 673 00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:01,280 Speaker 1: to know about his female partner. Oh and also side 674 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: note to um when it comes to statistics about women 675 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: reaching orgasm, there was a recent study that found that 676 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 1: lesbians tend to achieve orgasm more regularly than straight women, 677 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: possibly because women might be a little more acquainted imagine that. 678 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,360 Speaker 1: So with that, I have finally no more final thoughts. 679 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,719 Speaker 1: Email us mom Stuff at hollow stuff works dot com. 680 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: You can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast and 681 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 1: messages on Facebook and we have a couple of messages 682 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: to share with you right now. So we've got a 683 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,040 Speaker 1: couple of letters here in response to our episode Mama's Boys. 684 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: This one is from Alex and she writes, I thought 685 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,879 Speaker 1: I would chime in with some comments about dating someone 686 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,359 Speaker 1: who is very close to their mother as someone who 687 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,879 Speaker 1: is friends with his parents, I understand and support being 688 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: close to your parents. However, there does come a point 689 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: where it goes too far. My best example of this 690 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: going too far would be after we had been dating 691 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: for well over a year. At this point, he was 692 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,200 Speaker 1: still spending more of his free time and weekends with 693 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,920 Speaker 1: his mother than he was with me. Yes, I know, 694 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: great relationship. So this one week, he was only going 695 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,479 Speaker 1: to be free for one night on Friday, So, after 696 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: getting off work four hours late, he finally makes it 697 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,879 Speaker 1: to my house. Not more than five minutes after getting there, 698 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: he gets a call from his mother, so going into 699 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: another room to talk to her for fifteen minutes, he 700 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,840 Speaker 1: comes out and says he has to go to his 701 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: mom's house. Concerned, I asked, what's wrong this being the 702 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,440 Speaker 1: one night we will see each other for a week. 703 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: Apparently his mother had a bad date and his feeling insecure. 704 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: I could probably dredge up more stories on the same 705 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: threat as this one, but this is definitely a gem 706 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 1: of a story, especially since it hits both of your 707 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,399 Speaker 1: request for stories about dating Mama's boys, bad stories about 708 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 1: dating Mama's boys and the stereotypical game Mama's Boys. Definitely 709 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: enjoying the podcast and keep up the good work, So 710 00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,280 Speaker 1: thanks Alex. All Right, I have a letter here from Rachel. 711 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: She says my primary partner I'm polyamorous, is definitely a 712 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: mama's boy, and even though his mom and I don't 713 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,920 Speaker 1: really see eye to eye, I'm really glad for his 714 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 1: less macho leanings. My partner's mom fled Europe to get 715 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: away from his dad and raise my partner and his 716 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: brother as a single mom and immigrant. As should be expected, 717 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: both my partner and his brother have a lot of 718 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,359 Speaker 1: love and respect for their mom. One thing I've found 719 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: to be much more present in my partner and his 720 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: brother is a willingness to listen to women and an 721 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 1: openness to femininity. And they both tend to date strong 722 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 1: willed women, which is a part of why I butt 723 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: heads with my mother and thin she calls her anyway. 724 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,439 Speaker 1: I've never had my partner's relationship with his mom get 725 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: in the way of his relationship with me, but his 726 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 1: dad being back in the picture has caused a little 727 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,719 Speaker 1: drama because his dad does and appreciate the avoidance of 728 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: machismo as much as everyone else does. Of Course, true 729 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: to form, my mother and Sin has managed to keep 730 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 1: her husband in line, and that makes me cackle a bit. 731 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: So thanks Rachel, and thanks to everybody who's written to us. 732 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,360 Speaker 1: Mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 733 00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 1: email address and for links to all of our social 734 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:22,239 Speaker 1: media as well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, 735 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: including this one, which also includes all of our sources 736 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,800 Speaker 1: so you can follow along with us, go to stuff 737 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: mom Never Told You dot com. For more on this 738 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:37,879 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff Works dot 739 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:45,920 Speaker 1: com