1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. Laura 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: and I write a dictionary for our own language and 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: mock the cool kids in our new foreign tongue. Lisa 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: shows me how to make a spider web string all 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: over my bedroom and hang bells on it to detect ghosts. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: While we sleep. For three months, we're happy. Then the 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: day after Christmas, my mother sits me down to tell 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: me that Laura is dead. She was killed while flying 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: home with her entire family grandmother to infant brother, on 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: the pan Am flight bombed by Libyan terrorists over lack 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: of the Scotland. I am eight. I fall quiet for 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: a long periods. I feel like my head is full 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: of cotton, feel sleepy and mute and numb. Finally, my 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: dad teaches me to read the London Times. You have 15 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: to understand the forces that took her. It will seems 16 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: scary if you do. I think of the faceless monster 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: on the cardboards spook House, and I know that he's right. Slowly, 18 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 1: my world is filled with a new cast of characters, 19 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: Kadafi and Thatcher and Reagan and Gorbachev. They sound like 20 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: exotic fairy tale people, wizards and witches and woodsmen living 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: in distant magical forests, but their storybook showdowns can spill 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: over into the real world, into my world, and steal 23 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: my friends from the sky, so I have to pay attention. 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: That's Emeralist Fox. You know. If I were writing a 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: novel about a spy and I had to come up 26 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: with a great name for that spy, I'd like to 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: think I could invent a name as perfect as Ameralis Fox. 28 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: But the thing is, Emeralists really was a spy, recruited 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: by the CIA at the age of twenty one and 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: working under deep cover for nearly a decade. She's the 31 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: author of the memoir Life Undercover, Coming of Age in 32 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: the CIA. This is a story about what happens when 33 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: being a secret and keeping a secret is a matter 34 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: of life and death. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is 35 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: family secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, the 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we keep 37 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: from ourselves. The landscape of my childhood changed every year, 38 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: and I think as a result, eventually I realized that 39 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: my landscape was planet Earth, you know, and that whether 40 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: it was a suit in the Middle East or it 41 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: was a refugee camp in Tanzania, or it was a 42 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: beautiful Downton Abbey type house in the countryside and England 43 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: that humans and the humans that inhabited them were the same, 44 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: you know, and I think that was an enormous gift. 45 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: It didn't always feel that way as a kid, being 46 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: in a new place every year, but I suppose the 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: landscape of my childhood was in a sense my family, 48 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: because it was the one consistency between all of these 49 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: places we moved every year because my dad was an 50 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: economist who focused on developing economies and took us with 51 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: him to new countries every year. And you know, my 52 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: birthday since September, so every year I would know nobody 53 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: in a new place to invite over for my birthday. 54 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: But it was an amazing range of experience. I think, 55 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: looking back on it now as an adult, it seemed 56 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: ordinary to me as a child, but it was really 57 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: quite magical. Sure it always does. Right our childhoods just 58 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: feel like that must be the way the whole world lives, absolutely, 59 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, And I think actually it's to milestone when 60 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: you realize that there are so many ways to live 61 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: a life, and the people who have taken another path 62 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: through their life, have from all of the different hills 63 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: and valleys that they've been through that we haven't have, 64 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: had a completely different vantage point on the terrain, and 65 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: have intelligence that they can share with us. But definitely 66 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: as a child, I thought, I mean, I knew people 67 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: didn't move every year, but I thought that everyone felt 68 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: as at home in the world as I did. And 69 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: I think it was really sort of getting to university 70 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: and realizing that for many people that was kind of 71 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: the first time that they had had any horizons beyond 72 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: their hometown. Every September when the new school year started, 73 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: Amarillis would find herself beginning again. This might be New York, 74 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: or in the UK, or Jakarta, Zanzibar, Moscow, Thailand. Each 75 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: country had different customs and modes of dress and sights 76 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: and smells, and she grew up having to make sense 77 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 1: of it all to witness, learn and adapt. It's such 78 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: a primal period and you're kind of trained in a 79 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: very primal sense to look for the archetypes that you 80 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: need to recognize to survive when you're a young child, 81 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: and you look for the caregivers and you look for 82 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 1: the potential friends, and those people exist everywhere, and so 83 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: I think in a way that the terrain of my 84 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: childhood on the surface looked incredibly varied, but when I 85 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: look back on it, it all feels very warm. I 86 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: had a great sense of safety in my early childhood. 87 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: I think that that changed, as it always does as 88 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: we grow up, But in my early childhood and even 89 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,119 Speaker 1: beyond that, physically, I felt very safe, even in very 90 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: tumultuous environments as a kid, because I've kind of never 91 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: known anything else. Describe your mother me. My mother is 92 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: a poet at heart. She's an artist. Um, she's English, 93 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 1: and she comes from a very old, you know, kind 94 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: of snazzy English family that kind of knows all the 95 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: rules about what to say and what not to say, 96 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: and what salad work to use and so on. But 97 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: in her heart she is this incredibly free thinker and 98 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: this really radical poet and artist. She went to a 99 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: really interesting school as a child in England called be Dales, 100 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: which has a reputation for kind of breaking out of 101 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: the stiff upper lip British mold and creating the kind 102 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: of the hippie free thinkers of the UK. And you know, 103 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: she really gave me a love of the spoken word 104 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: and the written word. I memorized poetry all through my childhood, 105 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: and that was very much down to my mom. You know, 106 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: she had learned poetry growing up in Britain, poetry growing up, 107 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: and she walk home from school, skipping classes and walk 108 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: home through the meadows reciting poetry. And it was really 109 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: important to her. And it is now to me to 110 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: have kind of the wisdom of ages past in a 111 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: place that no one can ever take it from you. 112 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: You know, I think the things that we learned by 113 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: heart are hours and even in a terrible circumstance, even 114 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: when everything else has been stripped away, you know, no 115 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: one can take that. And my mom really gave me 116 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: that love of art and literature as a way of 117 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: understanding society, challenging society. Tell me about your father. My 118 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: father is much more analytical, much more almost like a 119 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: human computer, I guess you could say. I as a 120 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: child and even now, I sort of always had the 121 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: sense of his knowing everything in terms of fact, not 122 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: so much always in terms of the life experience or 123 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: wisdom emotionally in terms of emotional intelligence. To put those 124 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: facts to work in a way that you kind of 125 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: might think of as wisdom. But he is incredibly curious 126 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: and incredibly intelligent in his capabilities, in his ability to 127 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: always be seeking new information and to pull all of 128 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: that information in to kind of constantly update his model 129 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: of the universe and crunch as many numbers as you 130 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: could kind of possibly put in front of him. And 131 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: he is in fact an economist by training. He's American. 132 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: Grew up in a little small town called Franklin, bill 133 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: And upstate New York, and was one of only two 134 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 1: kids in his class to go to college the first, 135 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: and his family very different childhood from my mother, you know, 136 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: working class, single mother. And he ended up at the 137 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: University of Chicago and was kind of a wonder kinds there, 138 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: you know, it was loved by all the professors and 139 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: advanced really quickly and up being one of the youngest 140 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: tenured professors there in his early twenties. And met my 141 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: mom that as he sort of moved towards his thirties 142 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: and she was much younger, and they just were as 143 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: different as two people could be. How did they meet? 144 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: They met actually by mistake in a way, and my 145 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: dad had been set up on a blind date with 146 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: my mother's sister when he was visiting London for business, 147 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: and my mother's sister got the stomach flu and and 148 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: send my mother instead, and they went to a little 149 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: night music to play the musical in the West End 150 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: in London and had, you know, by all accounts of 151 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: very romantic evening. And then my dad went back to 152 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: America and my mom went and traveled around Greece and 153 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: Italy as a as a kind of backpacker, because she 154 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: was still just fresh out of school. And my dad 155 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: wrote to her and kind of, you know, my Mamo 156 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: says he drew birds on the top of the paper 157 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: in that way that you can write the that looks 158 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: like an m you know, and that that seems so 159 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: romantic because he is so analytical and not an artist, 160 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: and it was sort of his attempt to be romantic 161 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: at any rate. He eventually center of one way playing 162 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: ticket to Chicago, and she went. And I think it 163 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: was such a new world for her, because she was 164 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: coming out of the world of country manor houses in England, 165 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: surrounded by ideas and art and literature and these kind 166 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 1: of six hundred year old rooms that are incredibly grand, 167 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: but like the heat doesn't work, and there are mice 168 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: in the covers, you have to knock on it before 169 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: you open it, you know, just all the contradictions of 170 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: English country life, and suddenly was in the midst of 171 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: this kind of intellectual cauldron at the University of Chicago, 172 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: where every night they were at a different dinner party 173 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: with incredibly articulate, fast, intellectual men and women. But I 174 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: think the women in particular really struck my mom because 175 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: they were so different from anyone she had come across 176 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: before that could just repartee on any topic, and we're 177 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: so worldly, and we're ten years older than she was, 178 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: because so is my dad, and I think it was 179 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: quite bewildering for her at the beginning. I think she 180 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: kind of struggled to remember her own worth a little bit. 181 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 1: Then two huge events occur during Amarilla's childhood. First, her 182 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: older brother, Ben, her partner in crime, compatriot closest person, 183 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: is sent off to boarding school. Ben has learning challenges 184 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: and is also exceptionally bright, with the kind of mind 185 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: that retains detail history musical scores. Ben and Amarilla's have 186 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: always spent lots of time together, haunting museums in various 187 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: cities or attending concerts. He is the consistent backdrop of 188 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: her childhood, her everything, and then just like that, he's 189 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: gone away. He puts a brave face on it, but 190 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: e Marilla's is terribly lonely. The family is now living 191 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: in London and Marilla's is in the third grade. She 192 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: makes new friends, particularly a girl named Laura. Then Laura 193 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: and her entire family are killed on PanAm flight one 194 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: oh three, blown up by a terrorist bomb over Lockerbie, Scotland. 195 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: My mom waited until after Christmas to tell me, so 196 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: I always think of it as just after Christmas, but 197 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: it was just before. You know. She'd been traveling back 198 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: with her mom and her dad and her sister to 199 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: go home for Christmas, as so many people on that 200 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: flight were, and they were all gone, you know, And 201 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: I remember my mom saying it's a blessing that they 202 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: were all together, and there's you know, there's no one 203 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: left to grieve them. They all went together, and I 204 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: just it was just so much to process and to absorb. 205 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: I'd never lost anyone really close to me. I'd like 206 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: death was kind of a something I'd read about in books, 207 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: but I'd never really experienced in a deep way until then. 208 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: And it's also the first time that you have any 209 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: awareness that there's terrorism in the world, and that's something 210 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: like this can happen, and it can happen on purpose. 211 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: It can happen on purpose that somebody somewhere who never 212 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: knew Laura, never knew me, could make a plan for 213 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: some reason that made no sense to any of us 214 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: and had nothing to do with our lives and steal 215 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: my friend and her entire family from the sky. It 216 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: was just so scary and huge, you know. It was 217 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: just such a big revelation that really shook my world. 218 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: And I think I was really struggling with it because 219 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: my dad stepped in, which was quite rare in general. 220 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: My mom was very much kind of the heart of 221 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: our family, and my dad was sort of, I guess, 222 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: more than the mind, but he was often deploying that 223 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: mind out in the world doing his work, and wasn't 224 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: really a big part of child rearing. But I remember 225 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: him stepping in there and introducing me to the newspaper, 226 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 1: and I think he sensed that I needed to make 227 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: sense of what had happened. I needed to understand why 228 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: somebody had done this thing, and why they had done 229 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: it on purpose, and how it might or might not 230 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: happen again. And I think I've had a hard time 231 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: at the beginning reading those stories as more real than 232 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: the kind of fictional stories that I was used to reading. 233 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: But I also kind of had this constant, sort of 234 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: Damocle's idea hanging over my head that at any given moment, 235 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: one of these things might spill over into real life 236 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: and do this kind of incredible harm. And so you know, 237 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: when I look back on it, it's definitely something of 238 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: the kind of end of innocence, but also the beginning 239 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: of feeling an urge and desire and need to understand 240 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: what was happening in the world, and some sense of 241 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: responsibility of kind of understanding it so that maybe someday 242 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: I could do some small thing to help it be better. 243 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: Will be back in a moment with more family secrets. 244 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: Amarellis grows up paying attention to the news to world events. 245 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: When she's twelve, her father is working in Moscow and 246 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: there is a siege. For a number of panicked hours, 247 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: he is unreachable. When he returns safely home, he registers 248 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: that Emorrealis needs to see more of what's actually happening 249 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: on the ground, so that in its tangibility, it will 250 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: be less frightening to her. So on his next trip 251 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: to Moscow, during a time of protests and a fight 252 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: for democracy, he invite try to join him. I think 253 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: it was a great insight on his part. I think 254 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: he probably recognized the part of my d n A 255 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: that was his, you know, which is this part that 256 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: finds things that I can understand and no up close 257 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: and personal, much less scary than the kind of shadows 258 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: and boogeymen and monsters in the closet. You know. I 259 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: also was scared for him going back, and he felt 260 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: as though if I could go and see the thing 261 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: that was scaring me up close and personal, that I 262 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: would understand it, and then maybe there would be some 263 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: jagged edges that really were there, but in seeing them 264 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: I would not be imagining them as worse than they were. 265 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: And he was right about that, not only that time, 266 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: but pretty much in every other circumstance thereafter. I mean, 267 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: it became, I guess you could say, a coping mechanism 268 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: for me every time something really scared me to try 269 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: to take it apart and understand it, or to get 270 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: to know it better rather than to avoid it. And 271 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,679 Speaker 1: that practice has turned out to be a great gift 272 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: because I think you know, especially if you fast forward 273 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: to today's world where everything is seen through the lens 274 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: of media and social media, all of which is kind 275 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: of designed to make scary things even scarier for profit. 276 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: The habit of sidestepping that narrative and going out and 277 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,719 Speaker 1: meeting the scary people or seeing the scary place for yourself, 278 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: that's been an enormous gift in my life and making 279 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 1: me feel safer and making me feel better about the 280 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: future that's to come. That reminds me of a great 281 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: moment in your story where it's like kind of a 282 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: perfect metaphor where you describe this little toy vampire bat 283 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: that your brother had had and it scared you. You 284 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: started dreaming you hated that bat. And what your father 285 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: did in that situation, which struck me as so wise, 286 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: and it's the same really as as what you're saying 287 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: is it's like a childhood version of it. Is he 288 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: sat you on the floor and pulled apart the bat, 289 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: and I took a part the bat, laid out all 290 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: the pieces of the bat, the battery and everything about 291 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: what made that bat look scary, and then you write 292 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: after that I had never been afraid of him again. Absolutely. 293 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: It was a story that I went back to so 294 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: often in my mind um as I got older and older, 295 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: and things that seemed just as existentially terrifying as that 296 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: vampire bat had to me when I was a child. 297 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: And I mean, by the way, this thing was really scary. 298 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: It had like it had read pretend blood that swirled around, 299 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: and it's probiscus and my brother, would you know, bring 300 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: it up and squeeze its stomach to get the get 301 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: blood swirling. And as it as it approached my arm, 302 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: and I was pretty young, I really felt that this 303 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: thing was a threat to my survival, you know. And 304 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: as I got older, there were other things that I 305 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: thought were threats to my survival, and that memory of 306 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: kind of okay, but what if you give this the 307 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: vampire bat treatment. You know, what if you set out 308 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: the towel and you take this thing apart, piece by 309 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: piece and figure out that that blood swirling around in 310 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: the probiscus is really just a piece of plastic with 311 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: red paint, and when it swirls, it looks scary, but 312 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: when you take it out, it's not, you know, and 313 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: understand what the source of fuel is that's fueling this 314 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 1: what is that battery? And as I got older and 315 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: began thinking about the things that scared me in my 316 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: own personal life and then the things that scared me 317 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: in geopolitics and in security and in the world, that 318 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: same idea applies. And it's allowed me to see people 319 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: as the humans that they are instead of the kind 320 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: of vampire bat that they might feel when you first 321 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: hear whatever the threat and the story is, It's like 322 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: there was a training ground there almost for Yeah, what 323 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: would end up being your path? Yeah? I think my 324 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: dad was just trying to get some sleep, honestly, because 325 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: I kept having nightmares about this thing. But it turned 326 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,400 Speaker 1: out to be a really great life. Lesson A Marillas 327 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: grows up to be the kind of young woman who, 328 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: as a senior in high school, cuts school because she 329 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: hears that Houston Smith is speaking in d C. It's 330 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: a rare opportunity to hear Smith, who is one of 331 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: the world's most influential scholars in religious studies. So she 332 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: plays hoockey and gets a demerit. Can you believe it? 333 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: She isn't off somewhere smoking weed or making out with 334 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: her boyfriend no, she's educating herself, but hey, that's high school. 335 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: Her innerpendulum swings back and forth between her passions and 336 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: interests poetry, literature, the space program, a life of public service. 337 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: For college, she debates between the Naval Academy and Oxford University. 338 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: She chooses Oxford, and when she graduates from Oxford, she 339 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 1: enrolls in a master's program in conflict and terrorism at 340 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: Georgetown's School of Foreign Service. So you go to graduate 341 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: school at Georgetown and you are recruited by the CIA. Yeah, 342 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean it sounds crazy when you say it that way. 343 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: I A friend of mine said, you know, it must 344 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: be hard if you ever go to therapy, because the 345 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: therapist is sort of trained to think that anyone who 346 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: thinks they work for CIA is crazy. Um. But the 347 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: approach at the time nine eleven had just happened, and 348 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: nine eleven for me was an incredibly I guess the 349 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: word today is triggering thing in in that obviously was 350 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: for all of us an incredible national trauma. I think 351 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: on top of that, for me, it brought back Laura's death, 352 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: and this idea of terrorism is something that can completely, um, 353 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 1: you know, derail the world old and the lives of 354 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: people in it with no warning. And I was in 355 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: d C in that day, you know, and the black 356 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: smoke over the Pentagon, and my little sisters were evacuated 357 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: from the Cathedral school because they thought it might be 358 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: a target, and it was. It was all kind of 359 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: it felt very reminiscent in odd ways of losing Laura. 360 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: And so after all of that, I was really set 361 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: on kind of in a way, I guess you could say, 362 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 1: going back to that vampire bad advice of my dad's 363 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: from my childhood and trying to figure out, you know, 364 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: how do we take this thing apart and figure out 365 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: what makes it tick. The agency person who I first 366 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: spoke with was a CIA officer, but he was declared, 367 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: he wasn't undercover, and he was working as a professor 368 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: at Georgetown teaching classes in the subject of intelligence, you know, 369 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: what what it means and what its impact is on 370 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,640 Speaker 1: geopolitics and so on. So he was kind of openly 371 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: teaching students, and so when we first talked, I think 372 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: I was so surprised by kind of how humble and 373 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: curious and quiet he was, and it was just nothing 374 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 1: like the movies, and he really seemed to have that 375 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: same interest that I did in taking this thing apart 376 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: and and understanding what drives it and from what the 377 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: humanity is behind it, in order to find some way 378 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: to make it stop. And that really spoke to me 379 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: in a way that I never expected the intelligence world 380 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 1: to be something that I would find any appealing. Like 381 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: the CIA officer who is Emoralyss's professor, other CIA officers 382 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: she meets strike her as curious, humble, and genuinely interested 383 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: in questions beginning with the word why. She begins a 384 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: long process of interviews and exams while playing language aptitude tests, 385 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: psych evaluations, and polygraphs. At the age of twenty two, 386 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: she receives a provisional offer of employment. She has a 387 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: friend from Georgetown named Jim, who has also undergone the 388 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: arduous application process. The two of them confide in each 389 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: other traveled together as they await word. Then Amarillis receives 390 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: a cryptic message her security clearance top secret clearance is complete. 391 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: She's given instructions to report to CIA headquarters in Langley, 392 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: Virginia the following week, and in the meantime to tell 393 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: anyone who knows she's applied that she did not make 394 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: the cut. She meets Jim that night, looks him in 395 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: the eye and tells him her first lie, and then 396 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: she starts to cry. He was the last person who 397 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: had known her truth, and now she has lost him. 398 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: But maybe maybe there's one other person who can know 399 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: at least something of the truth of her life. Her 400 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: boyfriend from the UK, Anthony, if he's to move to 401 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: the STA, it's to be with her. They'll have to 402 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: get married, and the Agency will have to approve. This 403 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: is what's known as an agency marriage. Anthony has put 404 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 1: through a battery of tests, including a polygraph, and he 405 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: passes muster. He and Emoryalis get married, but this doesn't 406 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: mean that she can share much with him. The secrecy 407 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: continues doing what secrecy does, causing rifts, opening fault lines 408 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: to make matters more complicated. A month after their marriage, 409 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: Emorialist is moved into the most elite operational training program 410 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: on Earth and is sent to a covert base in 411 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: Virginia known as the Farm, which is a little like 412 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: the CIA meets the Truman Show. It's an incredibly lonely 413 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: way to spend your twenties, There's no doubt. I mean, 414 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: it's almost like a kind of Russian nesting doll or 415 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: something where you're the only person who knows the real 416 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: truth of who you are. Is like the little doll 417 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: at the center. You know, and the people that you 418 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: work with who've trained with you at the farm or 419 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: who work on your behalf on your desk back at headquarters, 420 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: they kind of know the next level out. And then 421 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: the people who work for your cover company and provide 422 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: your cover maybe know the next level out. And and 423 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: then eventually the people around you in the field don't 424 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: know you at all. And the difficult part, I think 425 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: the hardest part really is that your family and your 426 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: friends from before are in that outer shell layer for 427 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: you know, for their protection, for your protection, for everyone's protection. 428 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: But for me, it was really difficult and really lonely 429 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: to not be able to lean on my mom in particular, 430 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: but lean on my family in general and ask their advice. 431 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: You know, you're suddenly in some of the most really 432 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: complex and challenging moments and scenarios you've ever been in, 433 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 1: with enormous responsibility and obligation, and and then right at 434 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: this time where you would need guidance and wisdom from 435 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,959 Speaker 1: the people you trust most, you can't ask anybody's advice, 436 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: and you can't seek anyone's wisdom because no one knows 437 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: what you're doing, and then they can't know what you're doing. 438 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 1: So the farm is really this, as you say, wild 439 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: Truman Show simulation, where you know you're you're pretending to 440 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: be a first tour officer in a kind of fictional 441 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: country for six months um and working on operations against diplomats, 442 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: against terrorists, against other spies and every person there from 443 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 1: you know, the sources that you're developing, to the police 444 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: officers who are throwing you in the gravel and searching 445 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: your car, to the newscasters that are on the twenty 446 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: four hour TV news in your bedroom are all actually officers, 447 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: officers who are taking a tour away from the field 448 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: back home to help train, you know, the next generation 449 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: of operatives. And it's an incredible investment that they all make, 450 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 1: and the government makes in all of us. And I 451 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: think it's an appropriate investment because once you get out there, 452 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: you are so alone, and you have the lives of 453 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: other people in your hands, and I mean your own life, yes, 454 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: but also the lives of people who are putting everything 455 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: at risk in order to warn us about an attack 456 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: to warn us about something that is coming down the pike, 457 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: um that would put their own life in danger. For sharing. 458 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: It was just a small group of us that we're 459 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: in this incredible pressure cooker. But at least during training 460 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: we had one another to lean on. And then once 461 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: we were all out in the field, your sense of 462 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: self sufficiency and your self knowledge really has to kick 463 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: in because you're the only person who knows you at 464 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: that point. Yeah, you know, I'm just sitting here thinking 465 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: about what you said before about moving every year and 466 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,959 Speaker 1: starting a new school and being in a new country, 467 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: and developing the skill set of looking for the caretakers, 468 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: looking for the people who will make good new friends, 469 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: like the survival skills that were in a way already 470 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: taking root in you in a certain way, like you 471 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: had to start over again and again and again as 472 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: a child, and that must have created a great sense 473 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: of self sufficiency that then was at least a piece 474 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: psychologically of what made it be possible to be that 475 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: tiniest nesting doll. Yeah, I think that's true. I think 476 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: my childhood was probably my first training course. In many ways. 477 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: There are skills that I was given at the farm. Obviously, 478 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 1: most of what you're doing is is a kind of 479 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: actual deep relationship building and how to keep your sources 480 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: secure and so on. And then you do the stuff 481 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: you see in the movies. You know, the defense of 482 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: driving and land navigation. And I qualified on the block 483 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: and the m flour even though I never carry the 484 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: weapon in the field, but you know, you do all 485 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: of that kind of the sexy stuff you see in 486 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: the movies. But one skill that I learned there that 487 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: was immensely useful to me was meditation. And it it 488 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: kind of seems surprising that that would be part of 489 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 1: the spy school training, as it were. But having the 490 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: ability to get quiet every day, um in a formal way, 491 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 1: but also in my own head in the middle of 492 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: a sequence, when I'm not sitting on a cushion somewhere, 493 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: and when I'm in the middle of something that is 494 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: unfolding very quickly with a lot of kind of kinectic uncertainty. 495 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: To be able to remember the kind of true self 496 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: and true purpose in that moment was really the bed 497 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: rock that I relied on for so many of those years. 498 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: So it was really grateful to have that. I still 499 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: it's one of the few things that I learned there 500 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: that I still practice on a daily basis, that was 501 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: taught as kind of part of the standard issue. Here's 502 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: your glock, here's your MPO, Here's how you flip a car, 503 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: and here's how you get quiet sitting on a cushion. 504 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: You know, we'll be right back. And a realist and 505 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: Anthony's marriage doesn't survive her time at the farm. She 506 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: returns home to find an empty apartment and Anthony gone. 507 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 1: In the stillness, she says, I was flooded with relief. 508 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: She's now working under Nona ficial cover, a coveted dangerous 509 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: position and charged with keeping weapons of mass destruction out 510 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: of the hands of global terror groups. She travels around 511 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: the world, returning home only to switch out bags and 512 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: pick up new alias documents. But eventually it's time for 513 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: a more permanent cover, and it isn't easy to find 514 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: just the right identity for a year old white girl 515 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: in places like Yemen, Libya, Pakistan. So Emeralss, who has 516 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: grown up steeped in the art world whose parents are collectors, 517 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: becomes an art dealer as her cover. She meets her 518 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: family for brunch at a cafe and tells them she's 519 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: going to try her hand at dealing indigenous art. Her 520 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: parents believe it. She hopes al Qaeda will too against 521 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: this backdrop, and could there be anything less conducive to 522 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: form a lasting relationship. Emeralss has begun and on again, 523 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: off again really lationship with a guy named Dean who 524 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: also works for the agency. They each understand that by necessity, 525 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: they have secrets from one another. A Mailla's continues to 526 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: rise to the top of her field and is eventually 527 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 1: asked to take on a highly sensitive six year assignment 528 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: in Shanghai, and she and Dean are given a choice. 529 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: Either they can go together another agency marriage, or they 530 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: won't see one another for the next six years. This 531 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: isn't a marriage based on great love as much as 532 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: it is on practicality and a bomb against loneliness. I 533 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: think as much as it would be kind of romantic 534 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: to say that it was all about not wanting to 535 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: not see each other, I think it was as much, 536 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: maybe more, about not wanting to go alone. You know what, 537 00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 1: both of us were looking at long deployments in dangerous places, 538 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: doing complicated work that we could not talk to anybody 539 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: else about, and the only kind of possibility of having 540 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 1: having a shoulder to lean on and somebody to ask 541 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 1: counsel from. Was to marry someone who you trusted their judgment. 542 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: And even in that circumstance, we weren't totally both read 543 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: in on what the other one was doing, but we 544 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: knew enough about each other to at least share, you know, 545 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: a pretty significant part of our truth that nobody else 546 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 1: around us knew. And I think we had immense professional 547 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: respect for each other and a good, strong friendship and 548 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: we have both of those things to this day, and 549 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: we share an amazing daughter. So I think ultimately, in 550 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: its own funny way, it was the right decision. But 551 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: definitely I now look back on it as as a 552 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: mom of two girls who I I know we'll fall 553 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: in love one day themselves. It was a sign of 554 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: how the work and the mission was not only expected 555 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: to be the number one priority, but really the only priority, 556 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 1: you know, and anything else, whether it's a relationship or 557 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: love or family kind of only was there in as 558 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 1: far as it sort of fit in the space around 559 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: that priority, which was the work itself, you know, preventing 560 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: whatever the next attack was. And in my case, I 561 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: worked on m D and it just you know, the 562 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:29,919 Speaker 1: potential scale of of a disaster that seemed to kind 563 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: of drown out everything else. On top of the secrets, 564 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: on top of the secrets, and Marillason Dean are both 565 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: aware that their house in Shanghai, their every move is 566 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: likely bugged, that, as they say, the walls have ears. 567 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: So the play acting of the young woman art dealer 568 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: must continue even during all hours is an identity she 569 00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: has to assume through and through. It was a time 570 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: that emerging art was sort of suddenly on the fine 571 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: art scene in a big way, and I was working 572 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: on WMD that had the potential to fall into the 573 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: hands of terror groups, which is a required being in 574 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: places and mixing with sort of the people that your 575 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: average kind of like twenty something, your old white girl 576 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily have a logical explanation for being in or 577 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:31,799 Speaker 1: meeting with. And so emerging art seemed like a plausible 578 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: reason to be in the places that I needed to 579 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: be in. So that was what we want with what 580 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: did it feel like camera lists like during those years, 581 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you had such a sense of purpose for 582 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: a very good reason. But I keep on going back 583 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: to that image of the tiniest nesting doll of you know, 584 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,359 Speaker 1: you were close to your family and they didn't know 585 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: where you were, or vaguely they knew where you were, 586 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 1: like what you were doing? What allowed you to stay 587 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: as steady as you did? I mean, I think it 588 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 1: was this constant kind of how can I do this? 589 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: But also how can I not? And you know, each 590 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: step you get farther in and then you're in this 591 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: place where you actually have the operational ability to build 592 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: a relationship with a source within a terror group or 593 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: within an arms network that has the potential to prevent 594 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: an attack where hundreds, maybe thousands or more Laura's you know, 595 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: which is how I'm thinking of it at this front. 596 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: But I had lost and their families will die, you know, 597 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 1: not just on our side, by the way, but on 598 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: all sides of this thing. And I think it became 599 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: a way of trying to make things right in some 600 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: small way, or do right by this friend who never 601 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: got to make choices about what she was going to 602 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: do as as a grown up, you know. And it 603 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: wasn't just Laura, but I think this idea of so 604 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: much lost potential, and especially once I had my daughter, 605 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: that the idea of how much there is to lose 606 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: through conflict. You know what it means to really love 607 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: another human being, which I think you understand in a 608 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: kind of completely new way once you have a child, 609 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: And what that means for the mothers and fathers on 610 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: all sides and in all places who are affected by 611 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: division and by conflict. And how can each of us 612 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: do some tiny part, you know, to get ourselves to peace. 613 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: That became a real preoccupation and purpose for me. But 614 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: I think with it was the recognition that you can't 615 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 1: ask a source to put their life on the line 616 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 1: unless you can look them in the eye and say, 617 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: there is nothing in my life more important than keeping 618 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: you alive. And I got to the point, you know, 619 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 1: towards the end of that decade, once I had my daughter, 620 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: where I began to realize I couldn't honestly, honestly say 621 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 1: that anymore. And I felt like maybe that meant that 622 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: this sort a particular form of service for me had 623 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: to really come to an end, and I had to 624 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: entrust it to the next generation of amazing kids. And 625 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: they are kids, We were kids, you know, we're so 626 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,319 Speaker 1: young the people who do this work. But it came time, 627 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: I think, to pass the Baton at that stage. In 628 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: two thousand nine, when Emorless is not quite twenty eight, 629 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: she returns to the States with her family. This was 630 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: initially so Dean could undergo and advanced surveillance course, but 631 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 1: the agency marriage is fraying, and so is Amoryless sense 632 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 1: that she can balance being a spy was being the 633 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,439 Speaker 1: mother of a very young child. Did you know when 634 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: you returned that that was it, that you weren't going 635 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: to go back? Maybe in some deep place in my soul, 636 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: but I don't think i'd really practically grappled with it 637 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: or come to that conclusion. I mean I was at headquarters, 638 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,080 Speaker 1: working there in support of some things that were happening 639 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: in the field, well, thinking about what what my next 640 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 1: tour would be, which is pretty typical. You know, you 641 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 1: spend some time rebuilding relationships at at headquarters and kind 642 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: of doing some support work there while you figure out 643 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: what you're going to do next, And people do that 644 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: with multiple tours throughout their career. But I think as 645 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: I was there and thinking through what another tour would mean, 646 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: and that it would necessarily as so he got older, 647 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean asking her to participate in secrets in some 648 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: form or another that I realized I couldn't ask that 649 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: of her. I could ask it of myself, but I 650 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: couldn't ask that of her, And that there were other 651 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: forms of service out there, you know, And I wasn't 652 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,280 Speaker 1: exactly sure what that would look like or what was next, 653 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,080 Speaker 1: but I think I began to sense that period of 654 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: service in that form of service for me was drawn 655 00:40:55,640 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: to an end. So now she's back. She's given nearly 656 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 1: a decade of her life to the CIA, and Amarillis 657 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,959 Speaker 1: is done after years of building alias after alias, cover 658 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 1: after cover, secret after secret. What was it like to 659 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,319 Speaker 1: sit down with her parents, her brother, the people who 660 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: had been imagining one life while she was living quite another, 661 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: and to tell them the truth? It was? It was 662 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 1: a great relief for me to tell them, but I 663 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: think in large part because I could do it with 664 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: it being in retrospect, right. I could tell them this 665 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: thing that I knew would be very scary, especially for 666 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: my mom and say, and then we all lived happily 667 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: over und you know, you know, I don't think that 668 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: my family was as shocked as kind of maybe you 669 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: might be if you had a different kind of daughter 670 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: or had raised her in a different kind of way. 671 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, if I remember back to 672 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 1: nine eleven and the decision to go to George Shown 673 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: and study the causes of terrorism, the thing that I 674 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: gave up in order to do that was going back 675 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: to the type of these border and pursuing a career 676 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: as a human rights and war journalists focused on the 677 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,440 Speaker 1: conflicts in northern Burma, and so I don't think they 678 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: ever expected me to kind of be an accountant. So, 679 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: but it was an immense relief to be able to 680 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: kind of reclaim real intimacy. And I had never felt 681 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: as though we were strangers to one another, even though 682 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: they didn't know these kind of very important facts of 683 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: my life. For a while, we were still intimate soulmates 684 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: throughout all of that. My mom is my best friend 685 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: in the world. But it makes it a lot easier 686 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,320 Speaker 1: when you can actually really open up all of those 687 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: nesting doll layers and look into one another's faces again. Um, so, yeah, 688 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: it was a it was a beautiful moment. We were 689 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: out on a boat. Actually, I thought it was easiest 690 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: to be able to do it in a place where 691 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: we could have a whole conversation without interruption and with 692 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: without the ability of anyone to walk away. I think 693 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: in so many cultures there's a period during the transition 694 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: to adulthood where you go through some kind of experience 695 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 1: in the wilderness, or some kind of service to your 696 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 1: country or your community, or a period of fasting and growth. 697 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: And in a weird way, this was all of those things, 698 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: you know, And it was wonderful to be back in 699 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: real life, in the arms of my family, but knowing 700 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: that I had served, and that I had grown, and 701 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 1: that I had learned enormously, learned so many things, and 702 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: was kind of ready to return to life as a 703 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: grown woman when I had really left as a child. 704 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: Here's Amarillis reading a brief passage from her book about 705 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 1: those remarkable years. When I'm invited to speak publicly about 706 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,200 Speaker 1: my work, my body physically revolts, like jerking my fingers 707 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: back from a hot stove. I get it. The journalist jokes, 708 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: you want to keep all your lessons locked up so 709 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,319 Speaker 1: only you can enjoy them. No, I laugh, I'm just 710 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: scared of. I pause of. He prompts me. Every instinct 711 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: and every piece of training I've ever undergone is in 712 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,359 Speaker 1: opposition to this moment. What will happen if I tell 713 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 1: the world the truth, spill that most secret of secrets, 714 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: but always soldiers and spies, all the belching, booming, armored 715 00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: juggernauts of war, all the terror groups, and all the 716 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: rogue states, that we're all just pretending to be fierce 717 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,760 Speaker 1: because we're all on fire with fear. What will happen 718 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,560 Speaker 1: if I speak those words out loud? Will I get hurt? 719 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,719 Speaker 1: Will Zoe get hurt? Will our life be disrupted all 720 00:44:55,719 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: over again? But then I remember my daughter came up 721 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: at me and laughing. I think of the white flowers 722 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: on the table in Karachi, and the girls sitting in 723 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: their dusty circle outside Mosco, of the prisoners here at 724 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: home making amends to their victims and themselves, of the 725 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: gang members removing their tattoos of nothing. I answer, and 726 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: instead of hiding, I sit in front of a camera 727 00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: and tell the truth. Family Secret is a production of 728 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:37,400 Speaker 1: I Heart Media. Dylan Fagin and Bethan Macaluso are the 729 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: executive producers. Andrew Howard is our audio editor. If you 730 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: have a secret you'd like to share, leave us a 731 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,920 Speaker 1: voicemail and your story could appear on an upcoming bonus episode. 732 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:55,759 Speaker 1: Our number is one secret, zero that's secret, and then 733 00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:00,080 Speaker 1: the number zero. You can also find us on Instagram 734 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:05,080 Speaker 1: at Danny Writer, Facebook at facebook dot com slash Family 735 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: Secrets Pod, and Twitter at fami Secret Spot. And if 736 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: you want to know about my family's secret that inspired 737 00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,800 Speaker 1: this podcast, check out my New York Times bestselling memoir Inheritance. 738 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,680 Speaker 1: For more podcasts. For my heart Radio, visit the I 739 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 740 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:29,760 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.