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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller.

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Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,

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Speaker 1: and Bloomberg experts, along with essential market Moven News.

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Speaker 2: I'm the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 3: Let's get to.

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Speaker 2: George Ferguson right now, because he is the expert on

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Speaker 2: on aerospace on the airlines.

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Speaker 3: He's from Bloomberg Intelligence.

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Speaker 2: Georgie, again, we were just saying it just seems like

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Speaker 2: Boeing just emerge from the doghouse in the last six

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Speaker 2: to twelve months, and here we are yet again. How

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Speaker 2: serious is this issue relative to the last seven three

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Speaker 2: seven max issue?

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Speaker 4: So, I mean, I think if you're talking about the

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Speaker 4: other challenges they've had with sort of a rear pressure

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Speaker 4: bulkkant problems and vertical stabilizers, I think I put it

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Speaker 4: right along the lines, is a very similar issue, and

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Speaker 4: it's a lack of attention to detail in the manufacturing process,

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Speaker 4: either at Boeing or at their suppliers, especially Spirit Aerosystems.

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Speaker 4: It's been really nagging them and they've got to go.

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Speaker 4: They've got to get down there at Spirit and they've

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Speaker 4: got to help them knit this in the bud and

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Speaker 4: stabilize production so they can build all those airplanes they're

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Speaker 4: supposed to build this year and continue to recovery.

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Speaker 5: If you ask me if it's.

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Speaker 4: How is it similar to the mcast problem where the

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Speaker 4: two airplanes crashed to the Ethiopian and Malaysian airplane airplanes.

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Speaker 4: This doesn't appear right now to be anywhere near as serious.

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Speaker 4: I think this will be a singular anominate when we're

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Speaker 4: all done. But again, a sign of lack of attention

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Speaker 4: to detail in the manufacturing process, which can't go on

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Speaker 4: in aerospace.

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Speaker 6: Hey, George, give us some size and scope when it

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Speaker 6: comes to which airlines fly this model the most and

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Speaker 6: how many of these planes are worldwide?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I mean this model is relatively sort of

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Speaker 4: recently entered into service. There's only about two hundred and

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Speaker 4: twenty five flying. The big flyers of them are United

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Speaker 4: as you mentioned earlier, Alaska, and then COPA out of Panama,

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Speaker 4: and then Aeron Mexico has some of them too. There's

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Speaker 4: a bunch of small flyers of them. But Copa is

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Speaker 4: another key Boeing customer, right. Copa is an all Boeing

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Speaker 4: SEVENTHWTY seventh fleet. They do a great job of helping

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Speaker 4: people transit between North and South America.

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Speaker 5: Via their hub and Vanama.

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Speaker 4: You don't want to take your most important customers off,

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Speaker 4: and having quality problems doesn't help that.

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Speaker 3: George.

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Speaker 2: I'm flying A seven three seven nine hundred from Friday

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Speaker 2: from Newark to Aruba, so I want you to take

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Speaker 2: care of that for me. Please go check on that

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Speaker 2: plane personally, make sure it's all set to go on Friday, because.

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Speaker 3: I need that plane to leave here Uba exactly.

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Speaker 2: But George, you can't have quality issues in aerospace industry.

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Speaker 3: You just can't. It's like a zero tolerance kind of thing.

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Speaker 5: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: How is this kind of happening here?

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I mean, I'm just surprised that

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Speaker 2: we're having these these types of issues and with this

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, kind of it happens, seems more

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Speaker 2: than it should.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, agreed.

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Speaker 4: I think that it's a function of the setup going

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Speaker 4: into the pandemic and then.

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Speaker 5: And the US labor market, right.

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Speaker 4: So, I think we had this MCAS problem with with

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Speaker 4: the max they were grounded around the world. If you

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Speaker 4: were working at Spiritual Systems are boeing, it was pretty

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Speaker 4: depressing times. As you were sort of fixing that problem,

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Speaker 4: we went into a pandemic, you know, air travel went

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Speaker 4: to zero, almost zero, let's call it.

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Speaker 5: And so I think if.

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Speaker 4: You were sitting there at spirit Aerosystems working in airplanes,

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Speaker 4: you thought this might not be a career.

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Speaker 5: That's a long term career.

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Speaker 4: So I think they've had a lot of Turnament and

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Speaker 4: Bowings had the same and both companies said, look, we've

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Speaker 4: got to cut cross. We may need to send some

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Speaker 4: senior talent home, you know, give them buyout packages whatever.

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Speaker 4: So I think both of these companies have seen a

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Speaker 4: lot of turnover in employees, and when you have that,

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Speaker 4: you have to train the new ones and it just

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Speaker 4: takes a while, right, And so I think both of

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Speaker 4: them need to look at their training programs and their

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Speaker 4: safety programs and dig deeper on that. I feel like,

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Speaker 4: you know, this wasn't something that happened to Airbus, because

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Speaker 4: the Airbus didn't go into the pandemic with a problem

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Speaker 4: with their primary you know, aircraft, the eight three twenty.

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Speaker 5: They're big people.

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Speaker 4: Mover, and I think Airbus probably did a better job

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Speaker 4: of managing supply chain and the European industry managing supply

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Speaker 4: chain challenges during the pandemic, and.

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Speaker 5: I think that's why we're here.

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Speaker 4: And the US labor market has been really strong, so

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Speaker 4: you go on finding on the job pretty easy.

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Speaker 5: So going has to get all over this spirit us too.

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Speaker 7: George, it's John Tucker. Quick question for you. Will you

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Speaker 7: explain what the door plug is? The fuselage comes with

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Speaker 7: the ability to put in a door if the configuration

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Speaker 7: requires it. How does that work?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I mean some of the larger versions of the

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Speaker 4: seven thirty seven. Some of the customers can really pack

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Speaker 4: them out right. So I think a similar airplane Ryanair

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Speaker 4: will get two hundred some people in there. See, you

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Speaker 4: need a certain number of exits per number of people

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Speaker 4: in the airplane. So if you're maxing it out like

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Speaker 4: Ryan Air, you have it. You have an exit door there.

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Speaker 4: If you're not maxing it out like Alaska, you know

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Speaker 4: the exit door and you put a panel there.

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Speaker 5: You don't want to lose any of the space of

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Speaker 5: the exit door.

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Speaker 7: And the panel of what that's just bolted in, hopefully

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Speaker 7: bolted in.

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Speaker 4: My understanding, has got four bolts and some other connections

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Speaker 4: to keep it attached to the fuselage. So again, as

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Speaker 4: it goes down the line, someone probably st to go

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Speaker 4: out and make sure that that the panel gets inserted correctly.

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Speaker 4: If it's not an airplane that needs that exit door,

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Speaker 4: we think that's probably where the problem was is in

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Speaker 4: attention to detailing.

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Speaker 7: You look at it, you look at the video from

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Speaker 7: NTSB and whatever. There's no fracturing, there's no tearing whatsoever

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Speaker 7: of the skin of the aircraft.

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Speaker 4: Agreed the silver Liner. The silver lining to the story

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Speaker 4: is that it does not look like any structural problem.

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Speaker 4: Like you said, it looks like a pretty clean breakaway,

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Speaker 4: and that indicates to us that it was just either

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Speaker 4: the fasteners were faulty, and I think we would have

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Speaker 4: seen that in other airplanes by now. I think the

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Speaker 4: FA will know that shortly as they do with their inspections,

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Speaker 4: or someone didn't fascinate correctly.

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Speaker 6: How does that end up more broadly affecting other airliners

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Speaker 6: like United, for instance, has the most max nines in

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Speaker 6: service around seventy nine. How does that impact United in

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Speaker 6: particularly as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so the inspection program, I guess is that all

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Speaker 4: these will have to be inspected, all these airplanes, and

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Speaker 4: so their inspection process is going to take up a

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Speaker 4: little bit longer than these are going to take more

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Speaker 4: airplanes out of service, hopefully not the you know, North

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Speaker 4: to Aruba flights, but we'll see what happens, you know,

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Speaker 4: if they need people to fly as I get them.

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Speaker 4: There's and so I think another silver lining here is

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Speaker 4: that it is the first quarter traditionally a low time

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Speaker 4: for travel, and so I think it's less impactful for

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Speaker 4: the airlines coming right now.

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Speaker 5: But it's going to take United some time. So they're

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Speaker 5: going to have to knock down some of the schedule.

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Speaker 4: Probably while they get wait for these inspections and wait

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Speaker 4: for gudents from the FAA, is what's going to be

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Speaker 4: at all clear for the airplane.

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Speaker 2: So I know, George, just from reading your research and

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Speaker 2: talking to you, that Boeing and Airbus they can't build

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Speaker 2: planes fast enough. There's so much demand out there these days.

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Speaker 2: So what happens to Boeing's assembly lines today? Are they

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Speaker 2: still going full board or are they standing down here?

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Speaker 3: What are they doing?

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Speaker 6: You know?

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Speaker 4: My guess is that they're probably still building today. My

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Speaker 4: guess is that, you know, like they said, they're very

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Speaker 4: focused in the regulators. They want to see what the

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Speaker 4: regulators have to say. They'd probably look closely.

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Speaker 5: At this particular station on the line and want to.

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Speaker 4: Make sure that it's stable. They could even build seven

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Speaker 4: thirty seven eights which don't have this store and wouldn't

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Speaker 4: have any limitations at this point.

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Speaker 5: So my guess is that their production continues.

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Speaker 6: We only have about a minute left, but we are

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Speaker 6: approaching earning season. What do you expect as far as

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Speaker 6: particularly how this could impact a Boeing when it does

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Speaker 6: come out with some of its forward looking guidance.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean again, I think if it's an anomaly,

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Speaker 4: I would think that Following's guidance on how many airplanes

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Speaker 4: they can liver in twenty twenty four would be largely

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Speaker 4: unchanged from this. It seems to me like this could

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Speaker 4: probably be wrapped up in a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 5: Again, you don't like quality problems, but we could probably

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Speaker 5: wrapped it in a couple of weeks. Of it's anomaly,

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Speaker 5: that's not an anomaly.

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Speaker 4: That's when you start knocking down production schedules, knocking down

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Speaker 4: expectations for cash flow and profit.

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Speaker 5: We don't expect that right now, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, George, thanks so much for joining us. George Ferguson.

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Speaker 2: He covers all the airspace companies, he covers the airlines

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Speaker 2: as well, so top to bottom, he's got his finger

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Speaker 2: on the pulse what's happening in that global airspace business.

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Speaker 2: And again Boeing shares our down here today as our

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Speaker 2: Spirit Airlines as well as one of the suppliers of

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Speaker 2: the fusel logs.

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Speaker 8: You're listening to the team. Can's a live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 8: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,

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Speaker 8: the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg business app or listen

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Speaker 8: on demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 6: I want to get straight to our next guest, Paul

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Speaker 6: Mark Newton, who is global head of Technical Strategy over

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Speaker 6: at Funstrat Global Advisors, and have to point out he's

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Speaker 6: been very spot on with his call. So if you

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Speaker 6: rewind and think back to the fall of twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 6: this was right before the Nazaq one hundred peaked out,

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Speaker 6: as well as the Russell two thousand, of course a

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Speaker 6: couple months before what happened with the S and P

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Speaker 6: five hundred hitting ultimately its record. That was about two

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Speaker 6: years ago. But he was already concerned about the trajectory

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Speaker 6: of stocks well before a lot of those geopolitical issues

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Speaker 6: happened at the beginning of that year, and then also

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Speaker 6: had adjusted. He had around a forty seven hundred price

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Speaker 6: target for the S and P five hundred, so pretty

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Speaker 6: close there we're the S and P five hundred finished

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Speaker 6: the year. But Mark, thanks for joining us. It's always

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Speaker 6: great speaking with you. I want to get your thoughts

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Speaker 6: firstly on what's your outlook for equities this year.

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Speaker 9: Thank you, Jess. Happy New year to everybody, and you

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Speaker 9: know I am very constructive on equities this year, actually,

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Speaker 9: I do believe the S and P will get up

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Speaker 9: to fifty one to seventy five. You know, in general,

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Speaker 9: it should be a lot easier year for Manny in

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Speaker 9: best than last year. And last year was largely you know,

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Speaker 9: tech dominated for most of the year in the broader

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Speaker 9: market largely it took some time for many other sectors

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Speaker 9: to play catch up, and I think we did see

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Speaker 9: that in the fourth quarter. My view is that this

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Speaker 9: year should allow for a more broad based rally and

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Speaker 9: many of these other sectors like financials and healthcare, you know,

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Speaker 9: and I think the beginning of the year certainly has

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Speaker 9: seen a little bit of a drawdown and some of

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Speaker 9: the former leaders for last year certainly a very big

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Speaker 9: period of mean reversion. But my bigger call is that

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Speaker 9: I think Bonn yields are going to drop this year,

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Speaker 9: likely down to three and a quarter percent on the tenure,

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Speaker 9: and that markets should have a very good year, and

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Speaker 9: that you know, any sort of recession I think is

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Speaker 9: going to be postponed at least until twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: So Mark, you bring up a good point there.

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you think about twenty twenty three's performance

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Speaker 2: up until kind of October, it was extraordinarily narrow, and

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Speaker 2: I know, so for folks that think about the health

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Speaker 2: of the market, that's not very healthy because the breath

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Speaker 2: of the market advance wasn't great. They got a little

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Speaker 2: bit better there in the fourth quarter. How do you

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Speaker 2: feel about kind of the breath of that we're seeing

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Speaker 2: in the market these days.

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Speaker 9: Well, I think the breath recently has been at least

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Speaker 9: over the last couple of months, has gotten almost so

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Speaker 9: good that it merits, you know, thinking that we probably

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Speaker 9: will see some consolidation in the first quarter of this year.

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Speaker 9: You know, I don't think we can just continue to

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Speaker 9: go straight higher. We have nearly ninety percent of all

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Speaker 9: stocks right now above their fifty day moving averages and

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Speaker 9: about seventy five percent above their two hundred days. So

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Speaker 9: but important to mention that we've seen one of the

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Speaker 9: quickest moves from a very low level of breath the

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Speaker 9: very high level of breadth in a very short period

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Speaker 9: of time. And for me, that's very encouraging towards thinking that,

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Speaker 9: you know, we're seeing this broader based recovery in risk

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Speaker 9: assets still at a time when a lot of the

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Speaker 9: institutional investors are not as enthusiastic about risk assets by

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Speaker 9: you know, gauged by cash on the sidelines, or just

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Speaker 9: the ongoing wars that we're seeing, and a lot of

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Speaker 9: reasons to be concerned, but in general it's a healthy time.

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Speaker 9: I just think we probably need some backing and filling with.

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Speaker 6: What you're seeing, especially underlying when you're looking at some

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Speaker 6: small cop caps that have taken off, especially of the

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Speaker 6: past couple of months after getting hit hit hard, not

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Speaker 6: just last year, but over the past couple of years.

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Speaker 6: And then of course bank stocks which had getten hard

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Speaker 6: last spring but had seen obviously a lot of improvement

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Speaker 6: over the past two months. Do you think that still

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Speaker 6: has legs there? Like what are the technicals telling us

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Speaker 6: when it comes to the small caps and some of

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Speaker 6: those value corners of the market like banks.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, thanks, I do think that small caps have a

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Speaker 9: window for outperformances here. A lot of that should be

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Speaker 9: predicated on rates pulling back further, which can be helpful

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Speaker 9: to this area. As you know, and most investors know.

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Speaker 9: You know, the small cap sector has been a very

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Speaker 9: difficult spot over the last decade. You know, it's important

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Speaker 9: that we saw a brief period in twenty twenty when

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Speaker 9: they showed very good outperform, but largely it's been a

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Speaker 9: very big time for large cap growth, and I think

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Speaker 9: that you know, initially, as we see rates start to

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Speaker 9: really accelerate to the downside, that's going to be a

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Speaker 9: time when small caps outperform, which is probably a you know,

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Speaker 9: six to eight month window. This year, we see some

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Speaker 9: decent outperformance financials. You know, that is sort of a

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Speaker 9: mixed picture, and I'm not bullish on financials for the year.

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Speaker 9: I'm more neutral, but I do think that you know,

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Speaker 9: they can work. You know, we've seen the eel curve

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Speaker 9: get a lot less inverted, and I think you know,

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Speaker 9: through the stress tests we've had over the last decade

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Speaker 9: that you know, the bound sheets are in very good shape,

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Speaker 9: but you know, still tough for a lot of these

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Speaker 9: regional banks. It's going to take some time. We've seen

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Speaker 9: a very good move off below's I would argue that's

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Speaker 9: probably not the best area for immediate outperformance, but certainly

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Speaker 9: i'd be a big buyer on the backing and filling.

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Speaker 2: So Mark, the extent of my technical now is the

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Speaker 2: rs I phone.

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Speaker 6: You know, that's his favorite. I mean Paul's point though,

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Speaker 6: with RSI because I know you have your way of

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Speaker 6: looking at technicals, but a lot of traders it's not

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Speaker 6: just a one day when they're looking at charts. They

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Speaker 6: look at weekly, they look at monthly. I think a

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Speaker 6: lot of people, especially coming into this year, to Paul's point,

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Speaker 6: they kept talking about, hey, these overbought levels, But a

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Speaker 6: lot of times when I'm speaking with technicians, they're viewing

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Speaker 6: it from other lenses as well. So even though you

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Speaker 6: could see RSI, even though it's not still above seventy

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Speaker 6: at this point, but if you're looking at the S

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Speaker 6: and P or the NAZAG one hundred, you could stay

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Speaker 6: above seventy four a while, and that doesn't necessarily mean

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Speaker 6: it's a bad thing, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 9: That's a very important comment, and I think it's really

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Speaker 9: key to really measure investors time frame of investment, their

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Speaker 9: risk tolerance, and generally looking you know, you'll hear traders

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Speaker 9: say well, it's oversold, it's overbought, But a lot of

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Speaker 9: times they're mentioning very very short term time frames. And

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Speaker 9: if you look at the larger periods where equities have

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Speaker 9: peaked or bottom, that's come when you know weekly or

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Speaker 9: monthly RSI have gotten very overbought or oversold, and right

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Speaker 9: now we're sort of in a pocket where momentum has

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Speaker 9: been very positive. But yet you know, the recent drawdown

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Speaker 9: we've had in recent weeks has actually cause r SI

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Speaker 9: to pull back from those overbolt levels on a daily

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Speaker 9: and actually a weekly basis, so and I'm a little

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Speaker 9: more encouraged, you know, I think for the year, just

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Speaker 9: because I don't view momentum as being all that overbought

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Speaker 9: per RSI. But the divergences are really the most important,

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Speaker 9: you know, way to use technical analysis in my view,

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Speaker 9: and use momentum. It's not that when things get to

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Speaker 9: overbought you want to sell, uh, it's really when you

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Speaker 9: see repeated stabs at new highs and prices where momentum

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Speaker 9: does not follow and starts to move down, and that

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Speaker 9: can be sometimes a warning sign. And really in both

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Speaker 9: directions price moves lower, you want to watch for weekly

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Speaker 9: or monthly r s I to hold and not make

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Speaker 9: new lows. These divergences are really sort of the bread

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Speaker 9: and butter of how many technical analysts really use you know,

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Speaker 9: r s I.

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Speaker 2: How about volume? What's the volume been telling? You know

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Speaker 2: in the equity markets and the bond markets recently.

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Speaker 9: Well, volume certainly is very important. You know, I would

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Speaker 9: view more so on a single stock basis than how

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Speaker 9: I look at the markets. There's just a lot of

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Speaker 9: ways to measure volume, and particularly all the different you know,

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Speaker 9: we've heard about these record inflows and that would seem

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Speaker 9: to be a very positive thing, but yet markets have

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Speaker 9: been selling off, so volume is probably you know, not

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Speaker 9: as helpful for day to day decisions on for investors

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Speaker 9: when looking at the broader indsees, but certainly you want

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Speaker 9: to see breakouts of stocks happen on good volume and

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Speaker 9: you know, pullbacks happening on lesser volume. Those can all

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Speaker 9: be very important things to concentrate on.

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Speaker 6: I know something too, when it comes to volume can

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Speaker 6: be tricky if you're looking at the ARMS index or

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Speaker 6: some people when they follow technicals trend. I know it

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Speaker 6: spiked above three five actually on December twentieth, but that

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Speaker 6: can be a little tricky when you're looking at something

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Speaker 6: like that. Is it more just a day to day

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Speaker 6: thing that it's more useful than maybe.

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Speaker 9: More fun funding. Yeah, that's a great point because the

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Speaker 9: trend is very useful and we won't need to go

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Speaker 9: into a lot of depth here, but a lot of

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Speaker 9: it's about the advances to decliners divided by the advancing

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Speaker 9: volume minus declining volume. In general, when you have very

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Speaker 9: high volume on the downside, oftentimes that can signal inflection points,

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Speaker 9: particularly after a lengthy decline. If all of a sudden

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Speaker 9: you see people rushing in to sell and the declining

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Speaker 9: volume is very very heavy, that can be important marking bottoms.

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Speaker 9: But I would argue precisely the opposite is also true.

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Speaker 9: If you have a high trin after an advancing period

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Speaker 9: in stocks, we're a huge rally and then a very

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Speaker 9: high trin on a reversal. For me, that oftentimes is

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Speaker 9: a warning sign. But statistically, look, whenever you look at

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Speaker 9: these things going out three months, six month and try

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Speaker 9: to measure them, they all say that the market is

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Speaker 9: going to go higher, and that's just the upward trending

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Speaker 9: nature of the market. So it's more for me on

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Speaker 9: a short term basis and just looking at that trin

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Speaker 9: when you see, you know, trin readings being above two

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Speaker 9: point five, that can be very important literally in both directions.

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Speaker 2: All right, Very good, Mark Newton, thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: journey us really appreciate it. Mark Newton, he's global head

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Speaker 2: of technical strategy, fun Strike Global Advisors, Tom Lee and

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Speaker 2: some guys. Are they get some smart people over there?

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, No, they're bringing in a lot of smart talent.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Actually, so again, we don't talk technicals as much as

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Speaker 2: maybe we should have, but a lot for a lot.

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Speaker 6: Of cover technicals, a lot for the US equities, you do.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, exactly, And you're right about them some

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Speaker 2: times over the weekend.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's funny. And then somehow we talked about them

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Speaker 3: on the radio the next week. Isn't that fun? That works?

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Speaker 8: You're listening to the tape. Can's are live program Bloomberg

407
00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 8: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, tune

408
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Speaker 8: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

409
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 8: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

410
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,280
Speaker 8: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg.

411
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 2: Just Met and Paul Sweeney live here in on our Bloomberg

412
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,880
Speaker 2: Interactive Brokers Studio are also streaming live on YouTube. Ahead

413
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 2: over to YouTube dot com and search Bloomberg Radio c Suite.

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Speaker 2: Conversation of the Day. We're gonna talk copper. You gotta

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Speaker 2: smelt this thing. I'm not sure, what's smelting we put metal.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, doctor copper though, what it means for

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Speaker 6: the global economy to gross all the components it goes to,

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Speaker 6: especially companies in S and P five hundred industries that

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Speaker 6: use chip makers not a big one too.

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Speaker 3: You got to talk about it.

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Speaker 2: We have the perfect guest here at Roland Herring Joints.

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Speaker 2: This he's the CEO of Arubus g a G. It

423
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Speaker 2: is a German company Homburg, Germany. There are some ad

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Speaker 2: rs here in the U s A I A G

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Speaker 2: Y for the US A d rs I got a

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Speaker 2: market cap about three point six billion US dollars rolling.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us here in our studio.

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Speaker 2: Talk to us about the copper, global copper business. How's

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Speaker 2: it going, how's business, how's the market? What's happening in

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Speaker 2: your world of global copper.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, it's so. Copper is the metal of the future.

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Speaker 10: It has been the metal of the prospit It's also

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Speaker 10: the metal of the future. If you see, the demand

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Speaker 10: for copper is just has one direction. It's going up

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Speaker 10: because everything which is decarbonization, which is electrification in the end,

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Speaker 10: means it needs more copper for handling. Electricity. So we

437
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 10: see in emobility three times more copper in a car

438
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 10: than in a conventional car. You see digital you see

439
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 10: renewable energies and so on. So copper is really the

440
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 10: perfect metal for the renewable energy sector. And we as

441
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 10: a Rubis we are the largest producer of copper in Europe.

442
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 10: We produce around one point one million tons of copper

443
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 10: cathotes and the major product that we supply is starter

444
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 10: stock for the cable industry, and cables are everywhere. What

445
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 10: works today without electric cables and electric supply if it's

446
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 10: digitalization or even energy supply. So we have a very

447
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 10: positive business environment already today and I'm very bullish about

448
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,440
Speaker 10: the future, combined also with the circular economy, the recycling part,

449
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 10: where we're also leading with our technology. So all good

450
00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 10: for Rubism.

451
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 6: Well, thinking about the mining industry, particularly because they have

452
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 6: highlighted how vulnerable some of the supply can potentially be.

453
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 6: Some of that related to some geopolitical issues also different

454
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,439
Speaker 6: public protests that forced one of the biggest copper minds

455
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 6: to actually close briefly in the last month or two

456
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 6: because of that. But how does that do you think

457
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 6: does that impact the outlook for what that means for

458
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 6: the demand globally for copper, is that something that's more idiosyncratic.

459
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 10: There is a lot of copper, and the advantage of

460
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 10: copper is there are many many different minds. So even

461
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 10: if the big one, if you take this case in Panama,

462
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 10: will probably refer to even this mine has just a

463
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 10: small percentage of the global supply, so there's not the

464
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 10: dependency of the industry and of rubis from one single mind,

465
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 10: which means we are diversified also for technical reasons, and

466
00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 10: hence we have alternatives really easy to switch on and

467
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 10: we can compensate for any shortfalls. And it's quite typical

468
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 10: if you look in the copper industry that there are

469
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 10: some issues with mines. That's like in large industrial installation,

470
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 10: you always have challenges. So therefore, in the projections for

471
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 10: the supply and demand for copper concentrates to the smelter industry,

472
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 10: there is always a certain disclaimer of minds which have

473
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 10: some disruption, some technical problems, somewever problems. And if this

474
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 10: is factored in, you see that the copper concentrate market

475
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 10: is balanced. That means what the smelters need is being

476
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 10: supplied by the mining industry, so we have enough supply

477
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 10: and good quality supply for the way forward.

478
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: Talk to us about your base in Hamburg, Germany. Most

479
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: of your business, it's a global business. But talk just

480
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: about the investment you're making, have made continue to make

481
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: here in the US and Georgia.

482
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 10: So the investment in Georgia is a big step for

483
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 10: US to bring this technology of a large recycling plant

484
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 10: of multi metal recycling materials into the US market. We're

485
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 10: doing this in Europe and the investment in Georgia is

486
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 10: part of our one point seven billion dollar investment package,

487
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 10: and in Georgia alone we're investing about seven hundred and

488
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 10: fifty million euros. We are investing in strengthening our core business,

489
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 10: which is multi metal production, recycling and producing multi metals

490
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 10: all the industrial metals and precious metals, and also growing.

491
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,360
Speaker 10: The second pillar is growing in recycling, where this investment

492
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 10: in US is the big part of. And the third

493
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 10: think is sustainability and decarbonization, so investing in renewable energy,

494
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 10: investing in solar powered energy electricity generation, and also improving

495
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 10: our environmental footprint even further. So these are the three pillars,

496
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,679
Speaker 10: and US is a very important part of our investment

497
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 10: package going forward, and it's the first step that we

498
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 10: are going here to do in Auguster.

499
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 6: As we talk, so many economists, as you know, came

500
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 6: into last year so gloomy about the trajectory of where

501
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 6: US economic growth would be as well as globally. But

502
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 6: when you look at the direction of copper prices, what

503
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 6: do you think this tells us about the global economy

504
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 6: and how healthy it is right now?

505
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 10: Yeah, so you think about you mentioned this, doctor Copper,

506
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 10: I thank you. There there's a lot of talk now

507
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 10: where is the copper price going to be? What we

508
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 10: need as a as an industry and as a general

509
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 10: as an economy. We need more supply of copper. It

510
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 10: has to come from recycling, where we have a major play,

511
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 10: but also it has to come from additional mining activities

512
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 10: around the world. There is enough copper in the world,

513
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 10: and the question is at which incentive level, at which

514
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 10: pricing level investors are going to spend money to build

515
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 10: up quite high investment cases for new mining activities. So

516
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 10: I don't protect any metal prices going forward. I can't

517
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 10: just be wrong. But the demand is there and the

518
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,919
Speaker 10: demand will grow in the coming years by millions of tons,

519
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 10: which means there's a good incentive also for a good

520
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 10: rational for higher copper prices going forward, What.

521
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 2: Are the top two or three kind of customers you

522
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 2: have for your company? Just give us a sense of

523
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: who your customers are.

524
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 10: So the major customers that we have are the cable manufacturers.

525
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 10: So we are converting the copper that we produce into

526
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 10: the starter stock for the cable industry, which is called

527
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 10: wire rot It's a standardized eight millimeters copper wire. And

528
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 10: companies like the Prismians, like the Koffee Cups, like the Leone's,

529
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 10: likelike like, they are our major customers for these materials,

530
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 10: and then they make all kinds of cables for all

531
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 10: kinds of installations out of.

532
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 6: Those What are you hearing from your customers right now?

533
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 6: As far as when it comes to demand.

534
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 10: It's really interesting. We see an increasing demand from our customers.

535
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 10: So this electrification, this decombonization, drives our industry, our customers,

536
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 10: and hence also us. And we are we have a

537
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 10: first quarter or our fiscal year starts in the first

538
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 10: of October, so we have a from a demand point,

539
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 10: a good quarter behind us, and we have some very

540
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 10: good quarters ahead of us. Given the contracts and the

541
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 10: discussions that we have customer so our customers, our cable manufacturers. Again,

542
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 10: that's the major part. They are bullish about the demand

543
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 10: going forward and they secure capacities for the future.

544
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: Do you have business in China? No, No business in China,

545
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 2: cause that's a typical for a company.

546
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 6: I know.

547
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: One of the reasons people are concerned about the German

548
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: economy overall is that they do a lot of business

549
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 2: with China and the growth just isn't there where where

550
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: What are some of the other areas of the world

551
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 2: that are that you're investing capital right now?

552
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 10: So we are investing in Europe, which is our home

553
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 10: turf as we have started there one hundred and fifty

554
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 10: six years ago our business in Hamburg. So we investing

555
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 10: massively in Europe, which is the major part of our

556
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 10: one point seven and then the US. These are the

557
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 10: two focus markets, the two focused region we are investing now.

558
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 3: But we're not a choosing why is.

559
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 6: That for Europe in the US versus not China?

560
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 10: Because we have we know first of all, it's markets

561
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 10: that we know where we have our base and where

562
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 10: we can grow from and we have very stable conditions

563
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 10: and also positive outlooks in both regions. That's why we

564
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 10: are focused. And you have to put it in perspective.

565
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 10: Urubus is not a giant, it's not a big company.

566
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 10: We have to put a focus. So to invest one

567
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 10: point seven billion in crow for our company is a

568
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 10: big step. It's a big commitment and we have to deliver.

569
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 10: So we we make this promise and we're going to

570
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 10: live on this promise. And then I don't exclude any

571
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 10: other regions at the world at the point in time,

572
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 10: but in a moment, we have to focus on the US.

573
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 6: And on Europe, right And is that also part of

574
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 6: why China's been tightening its grip on copper. Is that

575
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 6: part of the reason why it's just harder to try

576
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 6: to invest to your point in that area.

577
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,719
Speaker 10: For China, copper is also a very important metal. If

578
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 10: you see, they rate copper as one of the indicators

579
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,479
Speaker 10: of progress, and they have invested strategically and driven by

580
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 10: the government over many many years now into the copper production.

581
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 10: And China today represents forty five percent of the primary

582
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 10: copper of the smelting capacity in the world and they

583
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 10: continue to expand. Yet given this high local capacity, China

584
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 10: is still an importer of copper of the metal, not

585
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 10: just concentrate off the metal itself. So the economy in

586
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 10: China is huge, and also with the major focus on

587
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 10: renewable energies and also on electric vehicles, their demand is

588
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 10: going to continue to rise. But they will continue also

589
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 10: to invest in the industry. So that's that's where where

590
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 10: they stand.

591
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: Roland, thank you so much for joining us.

592
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: Really appreciate it. Roland hiring CEO of Arubis GAG. They

593
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 2: are based in Hamburg, Germany, but he's in the States

594
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 2: here seeing some investors, and I'm going to go down

595
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: to Germany where they're investing a lot of money in

596
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: a plant down there in.

597
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 3: Where's in Germany?

598
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 10: In Hamburg?

599
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, but where in George? I'm sorry, Augusta, Augusta. There's

600
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 3: a golf course. There's a golf course here. There's a

601
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: golf course there. All right, we appreciate looking at that.

602
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: Right now, you're listening to the tape.

603
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 8: Cat's are live program Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am

604
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 8: Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com,

605
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 8: and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live

606
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 8: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just

607
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 8: say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

608
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 3: You know, there's some legal stuff coming up here.

609
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 2: Some of these things, their patents don't last very long,

610
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: and there's some stuff going on out there. So we

611
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 2: figured let's chick in with Rania set Home Managing partner

612
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: set Home Law Growth Ranya talk to us about kind

613
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: of what are some of the issues with these weight

614
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: law drugs is in terms of I don't know patents

615
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: and competition similar drugs out there.

616
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 3: What are you looking at?

617
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 6: Well?

618
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 11: Interestingly enough, Nordisks patent is set to expire in twenty

619
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 11: twenty six, and companies don't want to wait until twenty

620
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 11: twenty six, and apparently neither do consumers. And one company

621
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 11: out of China, Huadong Medical. I apologize if I mispronounced

622
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 11: that sued in China and one an invalidated Novo nor

623
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 11: Disks patent. However, Nova nor Drisk is upset about this

624
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 11: and is currently appealing the decision. So stay tuned to

625
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 11: determine when generics will be available to all.

626
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 6: Is there any sort of clear timetable of when that

627
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 6: could be?

628
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 11: I couldn't give you a clear timetable. Even in the

629
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 11: United States, the courts are clogged and busy and things

630
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 11: take a lot of time. I have no idea, but

631
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 11: I don't think a year is a long time that

632
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 11: much I can say, Okay.

633
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, buddy, mine's actually talking about the courts being clocked.

634
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: He's an attorney in New Jersey.

635
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: Stuff that has been on his books for like six

636
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: seven years is now just coming to trial because eiy're

637
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: backed up from the pandemic and b thorny judges like

638
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: to have. Judges have been retiring and leaving and they

639
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: haven't approved anyone to come in, so there's just no judges.

640
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, you kidding.

641
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 11: I've experienced that, and it's a terrible conversation to have

642
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 11: with clients. It's extremely frustrating because we are in the

643
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 11: business of providing solutions, or trying to provide solutions, and

644
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 11: there is none and we just have to wait and see.

645
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 11: Nobody likes to hear that.

646
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, all right.

647
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: So in some of these weight laws drugs, I mean,

648
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,959
Speaker 2: these patents seem kind of short here, but I mean,

649
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: I guess this is gonna be a monstrous market.

650
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: It is a big market.

651
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: It isn't expected to explode here. So what are the

652
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: Novo Nordis of the world trying to do here? Because

653
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: a they're the ones that invested all this money to

654
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 2: come up with these drugs. What are they doing to

655
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: try to protector their position?

656
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 11: I guess, well, obviously, you know, they want you to

657
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 11: wait until twenty twenty six before the generics come out.

658
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 11: But Astrozenica and other big pharma don't want you to

659
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 11: wait and are looking at oral medications and apparently they're

660
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 11: in like early stages and we'll see when they are

661
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 11: made available. But the most you know, interesting thing that's

662
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 11: happening right now, at least in my opinion, are these

663
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 11: compounding pharmacies. So compounding pharmacies are allowed to buy law,

664
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 11: change formulas and create new drugs for specific patients or

665
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 11: to assist with shortages. And we do have a shortage,

666
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 11: apparently it's global. But they're not using approved drugs, so

667
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 11: the someaglitude, I think that's how it's pronounced. They're using

668
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 11: a non FDA approved version of it. And at least

669
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 11: one state, the state of Virginia, is worried that there

670
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 11: could be some health risks associated with the ingesting of it.

671
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 2: Is there, I would think the answers yes, But is

672
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: there a black market for these weight low drugs because

673
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: the man has got to be just crazy?

674
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 11: Oh for sure. And some of them are on the internet.

675
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 11: You can buy them from abroad. Of course you're not

676
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 11: quite sure what you're buying, but the bottle or the

677
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 11: needle looks like it should.

678
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 6: I wanted to bring up a story that we had

679
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 6: on the terminal from Bloombergnese reporters Simone Foxmen and Laura

680
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 6: Nemius last week about how ozempics manias billions and bills

681
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 6: are coming for taxpayers. So they're writing about how state

682
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 6: and local governments across the US are grappling with this

683
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 6: growing problem about how not surprisingly expensive drugs to treat

684
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 6: diabetes and obesity or threatening to drain their healthcare budgets.

685
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 6: How do you view this, So, what's the issue here

686
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 6: here and what could it mean moving forward?

687
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 11: Well, these drugs are very expensive. I know several people

688
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 11: who are on it and they're telling me they're spending

689
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 11: you know, twelve fourteen hundred and plus per month. So

690
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 11: that's a difficult number to sustain in a long term.

691
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 11: And these drugs are supposed to be taken in perpetuity,

692
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 11: so it's not even for a short period of time.

693
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 11: So I think once drugs become generic and they're more

694
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 11: widely available and the formulas changed slightly, the costs come

695
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 11: down because there's they're widely available in the marketplace. So

696
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 11: I think we're going to be seeing a change in pricing,

697
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 11: but not until more of these drugs are available.

698
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: Because right now it's I mean, the question is who

699
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: does pay for it?

700
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it's.

701
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: The point of I guess Simone's reporting is that it's

702
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: coming back to the States, right Yeah, and.

703
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 6: It's draining their healthcare budgets, is what they were writing about.

704
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't I mean, on that side, you

705
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 2: could say, boy, it would be good to get to

706
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: generics as quickly as possible to lower the cost for people,

707
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 2: because we know the demand is there.

708
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: You know that's true.

709
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 11: But there's a lot of controversy, and again I'm not

710
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 11: I don't know what my opinion on this is. I

711
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 11: haven't really thoroughly given it some thought. But several people

712
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 11: are taking the drug not because of diabetes. This is

713
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 11: a diabetic the drug specifically for yes, and there are

714
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 11: a lot of drugs like Matt Foreman, for example. It's

715
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 11: used to treat a variety of things. So if this

716
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 11: drug was initially made to help with a variety of matters,

717
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 11: or it's now been discovered that it helps with a

718
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 11: variety of matters, then something, you know, needs to be

719
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 11: done to assist with the shortage if nothing else.

720
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I saw a story just early on

721
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 3: on this is the zepic thing.

722
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: This is some something on TV about this one doctor

723
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 2: Beverly Hills was writing a lot of prescriptions what goodness,

724
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: you know, and they were just looking at people walking

725
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: in and out of his office and they're all the

726
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 2: beautiful people, but they were still getting all these scripts.

727
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 6: And you know, it didn't seem to be it's supposed

728
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 6: to be for people who were diabetic.

729
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, diabetic obesity and all these underlying health issues associated

730
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: with that.

731
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 3: So there's a lot to do from.

732
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: The government perspective, from the inflation, I mean, from the

733
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 2: insurance perspective, and then also the legal side in terms

734
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: of you know, the patents and generics and compounding pharmacies,

735
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, a lot to develop here for this market.

736
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 3: So we'll stay on top of that.

737
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 2: Of course, Ronnie set Home joins us and we appreciate

738
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: getting her time managing partner at set.

739
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 3: Home Law Group. So I don't know anybody who's taking these.

740
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 6: I personally do not. Maybe they do, I just maybe

741
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 6: they haven't told me that they don't want something like

742
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 6: dune it under the radarn.

743
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

744
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts or whatever

745
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

746
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm fall Sweeney.

747
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

748
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 2: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

749
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio