Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So welcome to a special
Speaker 1: edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Carol Masser along with Jason Kelly,
Speaker 1: live from the Red Carpet at the Morgan Library and
Speaker 1: Museum in Manhattan. We made our way down the world headquarters.
Speaker 1: Rain that's the little rainy here in New York City.
Speaker 1: But it is buzzing already. This is going to be
Speaker 1: quite a night. Yeah, quite a night. And what I
Speaker 1: love about this event it's the third annual Bloomberg fifty
Speaker 1: and it's a celebration of the fifty people in business, entertainment, finance, politics, technology, science.
Speaker 1: And what I love about this You and I've been
Speaker 1: talking about this a lot. With this issue, is that
Speaker 1: people who stand out in measurable ways that's right. Well,
Speaker 1: it's Bloomberg after all, and so there's got to be
Speaker 1: a data point. There's one guy who has to put
Speaker 1: all of that together, all to him every week to
Speaker 1: put this magazine out. Joel Weber. He is our host,
Speaker 1: our co host. I guess, uh this evening, h he's here. Yes,
Speaker 1: he's definitely our cost Yeah, yeah, it's a team sport.
Speaker 1: It's not just me, Um, there's a guy named Brett
Speaker 1: Began who actually slaves away at this thing for weeks
Speaker 1: after a week, after a week to get to a
Speaker 1: point where we can actually have tonight and have people
Speaker 1: that we can celebrate. So it's big ten team sport,
Speaker 1: and it's even bigger than Brett because we reach out
Speaker 1: throughout the newsroom to all of the journalists and analysts
Speaker 1: within Bloomberg to make sure that we can have a
Speaker 1: list that actually really represents sort of the zeitgeist of
Speaker 1: the year. What's really cool too, is you guys start
Speaker 1: early in the year, right from what I understand, like
Speaker 1: back in the spring. Yeah, well, I mean, and we
Speaker 1: try and account for the whole year, so it's really
Speaker 1: a chance to recognize even things that happened in January
Speaker 1: and February we're kind of taking into account. And so
Speaker 1: when you sort of set this in motion in a
Speaker 1: year like this, how do you pick out the themes?
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you sort of break it down?
Speaker 1: So it's a it's an evolving process, um, and it
Speaker 1: goes up until the last minute, right, but things start
Speaker 1: to stand out over the course of the year. Whether
Speaker 1: it's a deal that especially in the oil m and A,
Speaker 1: was when that really jumped out of us this year
Speaker 1: like that, that that kind of distinguishes stuff, and then
Speaker 1: you kind of like give it a little time and
Speaker 1: you come back to it and say, did that thing
Speaker 1: hold up or was it an anomaly or did something
Speaker 1: else happen that got bigger than that, right, or was
Speaker 1: it just like you know, we we have we have
Speaker 1: a lot of people on the list. We also have
Speaker 1: a chicken sandwich and it broke. You know, this is
Speaker 1: a Popeye's chicken sandwich that broke the internet? Is what
Speaker 1: what we realized. They had a three month supply run
Speaker 1: out in a matter of days, and you know, like
Speaker 1: something like that. It's just like even if you're like
Speaker 1: business business is dreams this up, you have no idea
Speaker 1: that it's gonna like take off quite like that, right,
Speaker 1: And so we build into the process that there's opportunities
Speaker 1: to just embrace things that are slightly outside of our
Speaker 1: our usual place. And I love folks like Kylie Jenner, right,
Speaker 1: who are on the list for a couple of things
Speaker 1: that they did a couple of things and you know
Speaker 1: that's it's uh, it's a big money the self made
Speaker 1: billionaire gym z's first building. Um, it's it's an amazing
Speaker 1: accomplishment and that's why we do this and be able
Speaker 1: to recognize some of these people. Right. Well, we know
Speaker 1: it's a super busy night for you. We will see
Speaker 1: you on stage, beautiful, all right, it's gonna be very exciting.
Speaker 1: Jil Webber, editor of Bloomberg business Week, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you great. I really appreciate it. It's been quite
Speaker 1: a year and if you think about some of the
Speaker 1: stories that have been out there, whether it's politics, whether
Speaker 1: it's technology. And what I love about this list, Jason,
Speaker 1: is it's a lot of household names. Yep, they're there.
Speaker 1: But then there are folks that you might not know
Speaker 1: their name, but you should. Whether it's m MT. You know,
Speaker 1: I think about we're going to talk to her a
Speaker 1: little bit later. But I think that has become a
Speaker 1: big discussion when it comes to what's going on in
Speaker 1: the economy and certainly on the campaign trail, and then
Speaker 1: I just think about so many other issues. And as
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, we have a guest who's getting
Speaker 1: settled in. We just caught up with him a little
Speaker 1: while ago. A couple of weeks ago. Um, but we
Speaker 1: want to talk about the cannabis industry, which was a
Speaker 1: big story, in no doubt about it, but there was
Speaker 1: a lot more focused, I felt like on some of
Speaker 1: the Canadian cannabis companies. And now we're really focusing a
Speaker 1: lot more on the US company because our next guest
Speaker 1: is from pure Leaf and he turned this into one
Speaker 1: of the world's most valuable cannabis companies. It's the biggest
Speaker 1: U S marijuana company by market value. We're talking about
Speaker 1: two point eight billion dollars. Right, he is Boris Jordan's
Speaker 1: he's here with us. Congratulations on Bloomberg fifty. It seems
Speaker 1: like just a few weeks ago, you're with us. Uh
Speaker 1: in studio. It's great to catch. This is a much
Speaker 1: nicer I mean, our studio is nice, but this is
Speaker 1: a lot nicer. And we generally don't serve booz but
Speaker 1: you know, here we are, we do on Fridays. So
Speaker 1: why do you think, Uh, why do you think you
Speaker 1: made this list? You know, I was surprised. I'll be
Speaker 1: very honest with you. I've in the past made some list.
Speaker 1: I opened up the Russian privatization market, and Uh, I
Speaker 1: was on those global leaders of tomorrow. But the last
Speaker 1: thing I thought I'd make as a cannabis UH company,
Speaker 1: listen a Bloomberg fifty for cannabis UM. I think what's
Speaker 1: great about it is that it sort of reflects the
Speaker 1: fact that people are starting to accept the fact that
Speaker 1: cannabis is going to be a part of our lives.
Speaker 1: In the United States, we have thirty three states that
Speaker 1: are that that have legalized cannabis in one form or another.
Speaker 1: More and more people are using it. And the fact
Speaker 1: that Bloomberg has recognized that, I think it's a big
Speaker 1: deal and it shows that it's becoming mainstream. Well Burst,
Speaker 1: and I do think about you know, for a while
Speaker 1: we just talked about the Canadian cannabis companies, and I
Speaker 1: do feel like was a lot more about the US
Speaker 1: companies and yours included, UM, what do you think is
Speaker 1: going to be when it comes to the cannabis story.
Speaker 1: We we're waiting for, you know, regulations to come out
Speaker 1: from the government, you know, so I'm just curious what
Speaker 1: you think will become. Did you get over impeachment um,
Speaker 1: which I hope we will at some point in time.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a continuation of the US story.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say anything negative about Canada, but
Speaker 1: it's just a bigger market. The US companies are alterning profitable. Um,
Speaker 1: you're starting to see more and more of them. I
Speaker 1: think the numbers that are gonna be put up by
Speaker 1: US company next year are gonna be quite big and staggering,
Speaker 1: and I think that will get recognized not only uh,
Speaker 1: you know, by Washington, but I think also by the
Speaker 1: markets at large. And I think at a large the
Speaker 1: mainstream investors have largely avoided cannabis until this to today,
Speaker 1: and I think you're gonna start seeing a lot more
Speaker 1: of them get involved as they see these companies start
Speaker 1: to put up significant numbers. Well, and talk to us
Speaker 1: about sort of the big companies getting involved, because there
Speaker 1: have been some twists and turns, shall we say, with
Speaker 1: some of the bigger US companies started dipping their toe
Speaker 1: in some making some investments. I'm thinking of consolation, obviously,
Speaker 1: how does this sort of consumer package goods market get
Speaker 1: more involved in this? How important is it that they
Speaker 1: get involved in order to grow this business in a
Speaker 1: meaningful way. I think they're all going to get involved
Speaker 1: with for instance, purely just this evening on on Bloomberg
Speaker 1: announced that we we hired um Joe Byrne, who ran
Speaker 1: uh DR Peppler Snapple. He built Voss Water. Before that,
Speaker 1: he was at uh um uh Seagram's company, so he
Speaker 1: the real guy. These are guys that are built and
Speaker 1: run very big CpG businesses, that understand brands and understand
Speaker 1: supply chain, and you're starting to see more and more
Speaker 1: of those people enter this market. And I think that's
Speaker 1: the first sign um. And the reasons they're coming before
Speaker 1: the big companies is because we're still federally legal. But
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna get two pieces of legislation. I
Speaker 1: think you're gonna get the Safe Banking Act, and I
Speaker 1: think you will get the States Act. Once you get
Speaker 1: the States Act is when you're gonna start seeing some
Speaker 1: of the big multinationals really starting to take a hard
Speaker 1: look at cannabis because it just fits so well with
Speaker 1: every one of their other products that they sell today,
Speaker 1: whether it be you know, beverages or food or or
Speaker 1: at different additives. And the farmer companies are gonna be
Speaker 1: the last because they're really waiting for synthetic cannabis. Once
Speaker 1: you get synthetic cannabis. You'll start to see the farmer
Speaker 1: companies get involved as well. So what does it mean
Speaker 1: for your financial model next year? If we get those
Speaker 1: two pieces of legislation. That sounds like it's a game
Speaker 1: changer and that the numbers just start to take off.
Speaker 1: Changer in terms of the amount of the cost of
Speaker 1: capital for our company, But it's not really a game
Speaker 1: change of the industry because the industry, I mean to
Speaker 1: be honest, we can we're growing, and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: grow from this year from over and then you can
Speaker 1: work across states. Right, you don't have to build that
Speaker 1: state will so you're still you still still going to
Speaker 1: be siloed in the states, but you will have a
Speaker 1: federal law that allows investors to invest in the sector,
Speaker 1: but you'll still be siloed. And it's kind of to
Speaker 1: be honest, like gambling right in the US, Right, So
Speaker 1: you can't go across border, across state lines on gambling
Speaker 1: in the United States. You have to be siloed in
Speaker 1: the state that you're in. It's state regulated, but it's
Speaker 1: not federal legal. All right, we gotta leave it there.
Speaker 1: Poor Jordan, thank you so much for dropping by a
Speaker 1: getting congratulations good time tonight, executive chairman of Curelya Holdings
Speaker 1: of course based in Wakefield, Massachusetts, here at the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Fifties celebration, right, and I do think you know, we're
Speaker 1: talking with Joel about sort of the big themes of
Speaker 1: the year, and you said it, you know, twenty eight team,
Speaker 1: we would have said cannabis huge. And by the way,
Speaker 1: it was last year. If you remember Bruce Lynton was
Speaker 1: on this list. He had, in auspicion said wasn't going
Speaker 1: to bring that up with but he had an artificiows
Speaker 1: sort of departure from his company. This is a volatile industry.
Speaker 1: We'll see where it goes. But those two pieces of legislation,
Speaker 1: as he mentioned, that could really change everything. Well gives
Speaker 1: it legitimacy and in terms of kind of taking away
Speaker 1: some of the questions that are out there. And I
Speaker 1: think that spooks investors to some extent and certainly keeps
Speaker 1: some of the bigger players away from getting involved because
Speaker 1: they need they need to know what the rules are
Speaker 1: with this. Well and king off of what he said
Speaker 1: about them, you know, hiring a big name from well,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this this cross late
Speaker 1: in the day during our radio show cure Um not
Speaker 1: Cia Leaf Cannopy, which Bruce Linton left. They have now
Speaker 1: hired the former CFO of Constellation to come in and
Speaker 1: be the CEO. Well, it reminds what it is is
Speaker 1: a reminder that this is about being a brand and
Speaker 1: developing a brand, right, just like any other consumer product.
Speaker 1: And so it takes you there. So certainly cannabis one
Speaker 1: of them, and Bruce Um and boris rather recognized on
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg fifty also this year in terms of Bloomberg fifty.
Speaker 1: And this plays a little bit more into what we've
Speaker 1: heard on the political campaign trials, right, Yeah, and we've
Speaker 1: heard a lot about you know, what's happening when it
Speaker 1: comes to the relationship between business, between politics and the
Speaker 1: Federal Reserve. Talk a lot about fiscal policy. We also
Speaker 1: talk a lot about monetary policy. We hear about it
Speaker 1: from politicians. Yes, I think in a way that we
Speaker 1: traditionally have not. Let's be honest. Yeah, this is turning
Speaker 1: things upside down. And I feel like, you know, you're
Speaker 1: pretty cool if you can talk about MMT modern um
Speaker 1: monetary theory, because it's certainly something that Bernie Sanders has
Speaker 1: talked about and you know, it really plays into and
Speaker 1: goes against for those of us who studied economics, UM,
Speaker 1: it really goes against this whole idea of you can't
Speaker 1: just print money to pay for things, and yet this
Speaker 1: theory turns it all upside down. And we have the
Speaker 1: perfect person to talk about it joining us. And she's
Speaker 1: recognized among the Bloomberg fifty Stephanie Kelton, economist, professor of
Speaker 1: economics and public Policy at stony Brook University, and she's
Speaker 1: got an upcoming book it's called The Deficit Myth, and
Speaker 1: we want to get into it. Welcome, Welcome, We got
Speaker 1: your mic call set more or less we do we
Speaker 1: can hear you. So tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: UM this year and just so many people talking about
Speaker 1: m MT. If you google it it comes up a
Speaker 1: million times and many times over. So what do you
Speaker 1: make of kind of the popularity of an empty I mean, there,
Speaker 1: it is kind of astonishing, right that. I think in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, what's happening is that people are
Speaker 1: coming to some sort of terms with the idea that
Speaker 1: when the next downturn comes, UM policymakers are going to
Speaker 1: be able to reach for the usual toolkit and do
Speaker 1: what they've done in the past, that we're going to
Speaker 1: have to start thinking maybe more creatively, more ambitiously about
Speaker 1: what policymakers can do in response to a growing weakness
Speaker 1: in the economy. And I think UM, for many people,
Speaker 1: m MT is just increasingly viewed as that alternative that
Speaker 1: can help us to um, you know, think about ways
Speaker 1: to to be more ambitious when so we don't have
Speaker 1: to love the kind of long protracted recession that we
Speaker 1: had last time. And so, Stephanie, were you surprised that
Speaker 1: this was a year where a lot of people from
Speaker 1: Alexandro Cassio Cortez to Bernie Sanders, who Carol mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: they introduced it. We talked about the Overton window all
Speaker 1: the time, right, you know that this sort of moved
Speaker 1: in m m T S favor makes me windows. But
Speaker 1: it was a moment, you know, and honestly it entered
Speaker 1: into the political and and I dare say even at
Speaker 1: least the mainstream business zeitgeist. To quote our colleague Tom Keene,
Speaker 1: were you surprised, I mean yes and no. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you've been pushing hard to get that
Speaker 1: breakthrough moment for a set of ideas and You've really
Speaker 1: worked as a scholar and as an academic, and with
Speaker 1: a number of other people as well. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is a team effort, and you know, we put heart
Speaker 1: and soul into this project for more than two decades now,
Speaker 1: and so at some point you do expect it to
Speaker 1: pay off. I guess you know. Um, but then when
Speaker 1: you have that moment and you have politicians of the
Speaker 1: type that you're talking about giving some oxygen to these ideas,
Speaker 1: it really is remarkable. Tell us though, because for everyone
Speaker 1: like a Bernie Sanders and some other individuals high profile
Speaker 1: who are supporting him and to you know, you've had
Speaker 1: a lot of high profile names. I know, Paul Krugman,
Speaker 1: you've had a little bit of a battle, you know,
Speaker 1: certainly a ward words. Um, I'm curious if you're having
Speaker 1: more and more conversations with more folks that maybe we're
Speaker 1: against it, that are starting to say, hey, you've got
Speaker 1: an idea here. Yeah. I mean so for me, some
Speaker 1: of the most fun conversations and communications I have are
Speaker 1: those that aren't public. It's the people who reach out
Speaker 1: to me privately. And you know, were it known who
Speaker 1: these people are, I think the shock waves would reverberate
Speaker 1: in a much more dramatic fashion. But it's just encouraging
Speaker 1: to know that there are people who are really out
Speaker 1: there willing to take the scholarship seriously, ask questions when
Speaker 1: they're not sure, um, you know, do the ideas justice
Speaker 1: and not sort of caricature them and and created an
Speaker 1: atmosphere of fear and concern where these are really just,
Speaker 1: I think, very sensible and sound economic principles. Remind our
Speaker 1: remind our world. I mean, I know our audience knows,
Speaker 1: but m M T is essentially a government in their
Speaker 1: own currency can just print the money they need. Because
Speaker 1: so I never use those words because it's okay, everybody
Speaker 1: everybody in the journalist world does. But it's so it's
Speaker 1: the idea is fairly simple. It's that in countries like
Speaker 1: the US that issue their own currency that's not tethered
Speaker 1: to bold or convertible into anything else, that the rules
Speaker 1: are just different for a currency issuing government as opposed
Speaker 1: to you know, somebody in the Eurozone, Griefs or Italy
Speaker 1: or Spain that now borrows in a currency that they
Speaker 1: don't control, certainly different from a household or an individual
Speaker 1: business that has to spend in a currency that it
Speaker 1: can't issue, so it does free up some policy space.
Speaker 1: And what MMT is trying to remind us is we're
Speaker 1: not on a gold standard anymore, not in a fixed
Speaker 1: exchange rate world. So let's recognize that. Let's try to
Speaker 1: take full advantage of the policy space that's available to us.
Speaker 1: It's not a free lunch, it's not a carte blanche.
Speaker 1: You can go out and spend that. Yeah, you can't.
Speaker 1: You're still supposed to make wise investments, be judicious with
Speaker 1: the public purse. But recognize there is a difference between
Speaker 1: the issuer of the currency and what we would say
Speaker 1: are the users of currency. The government is not like
Speaker 1: a household. But we continue to have debates and policy
Speaker 1: conversations that are rooted in this old thinking of the
Speaker 1: federal government as if it's got to play by the
Speaker 1: same set of rules that you and I have to
Speaker 1: play buy And that's just not right. So I gotta
Speaker 1: ask you before we let you go, sort of looking
Speaker 1: ahead a bit, all the attention that's been paid to
Speaker 1: you into into m MT, do you feel like there
Speaker 1: is a well spring of sorts of new scholarship that's
Speaker 1: coming up. Are you hearing sort of students, grad students
Speaker 1: and others sort of coalesced around this a little bit,
Speaker 1: because often that's what it takes for an idea to
Speaker 1: move even further into the instream. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean
Speaker 1: I taught at the University of Missouri in Kansas City
Speaker 1: for seventeen years. I'm now at Stony Brook University here
Speaker 1: on Long Island, but we had one of the largest
Speaker 1: graduate programs PhD programs in the entire university. There are
Speaker 1: universities training students, are students are now out sharing their
Speaker 1: own economics departments. I just saw university on the East
Speaker 1: Coast advertising for a faculty position where they say, what
Speaker 1: we're looking for is someone who can teach MMT. So
Speaker 1: they're actually hiring. Yeah, that clearly is Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: All right. Stephanie Kelton economist MMT, advocate it and honor
Speaker 1: here at the Bloomberg Fruit and are upcoming both the
Speaker 1: deficit myth modern monetary theory and the Birth of the
Speaker 1: People's Economy is gonna be released, I think. Jude, alright,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You are listening to Bloomberg Business.
Speaker 1: We Carl Master along with Jason Kelly. We'relive at the
Speaker 1: Morgan Library and Museum, uh here in New York City,
Speaker 1: and we are celebrating um some of the fifty names,
Speaker 1: and we are going to be followed by a dinner
Speaker 1: where we will honor and talk about more than but
Speaker 1: we're going to interview a few more. What I love
Speaker 1: about Stephanie Kelton is I think we're in this environment
Speaker 1: and I think it's very telling on a day where
Speaker 1: we talked a lot about Paul Boker, former head of
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve and someone who did some really brave
Speaker 1: things when inflation was out of control, and I do
Speaker 1: think we're in this interesting environment, low rate environment. Everyone's
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of it, and then maybe we
Speaker 1: need to have some new theories and maybe think about
Speaker 1: things a little bit differently. And so I think, um,
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to be able to have some time, get
Speaker 1: some time with her, because I do think we need
Speaker 1: to introduce some new theories to figure out, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of how do we maybe you know, get some
Speaker 1: more growth or how you know, how can we do
Speaker 1: some things within the government um responsibly. As she said,
Speaker 1: it's not just runaway spending, but maybe we need some
Speaker 1: new theories in order to do some things. I also,
Speaker 1: I mean getting past the economics part of it. I
Speaker 1: love the idea of someone sort of toiling away on
Speaker 1: something for two decades that they deeply believe in. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, she obviously came up through the economic system,
Speaker 1: the university system, and now she's she's having a moment.
Speaker 1: But what was clear from that conversation is that moment
Speaker 1: is going to continue because now there's this whole category
Speaker 1: of economist who are being trained around this. Well you
Speaker 1: think about it, right, there's going out around the around
Speaker 1: the country or around the world in terms of her students.
Speaker 1: Or want to shift gears a little bit because our
Speaker 1: next guest from the Bloomberg fifty Red Carpet is bringing
Speaker 1: banking services to customers across Africa. We're so delighted to
Speaker 1: have with us James more Warrany. He is a CEO
Speaker 1: of Equity Group Holdings UM Bank Kenya and so delighted
Speaker 1: to have you here. Welcome and congratulations, thank you for
Speaker 1: having me here. So thirty five years in and I
Speaker 1: know I was watching a bunch of videos and kind
Speaker 1: of prepping. We both were, And I mean it wasn't
Speaker 1: easy when you guys began, right, I mean you were
Speaker 1: losing money. It was not easy. You've come a long way.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit. It's about about kind of
Speaker 1: that process. Yeah, the first ten years were very difficult.
Speaker 1: We couldn't break even, so we became technically insolvent by
Speaker 1: the seventh year. Not good. Yeah, Now there's a tough track, right,
Speaker 1: very tough track record where the lost things we had
Speaker 1: accumulated were thirty times the capital we started with. But
Speaker 1: essentially we developed a business model that was appropriate for
Speaker 1: the individual and we became a bank for the small
Speaker 1: micro media mental crisis and essentially the models knitted with uh,
Speaker 1: the entrepreneurs so well that uh now we are the
Speaker 1: largest bank in Nairobi Stock Exchange in terms of market
Speaker 1: cups and the largest bank in Eastern and Central Africa
Speaker 1: and with the sixteen medium customers nine countries. And so
Speaker 1: when you think about your customer, help us understand who
Speaker 1: they are. You know, you describe their size, but are
Speaker 1: they in all types of businesses? And as you look
Speaker 1: down down the list, what are the fastest growing areas
Speaker 1: that you see? Yeah, we are very inclusive bank because
Speaker 1: people graduate up. They may start very micro, they becomes more,
Speaker 1: they become medium, They become a larger practice. The same
Speaker 1: with the individuals. They start occasionally as peace and farmers,
Speaker 1: they become a growth businesses and the individual as well
Speaker 1: being continuous to grow. But the biggest growing segment UH
Speaker 1: is the medium enterprises. That's where you find the scale
Speaker 1: EYES is becoming really significant and it's because they populated
Speaker 1: the value change of the coporates that operating the continent
Speaker 1: and consequently they now become the face of African Africans
Speaker 1: and entreprenewership. I have to say, James, what I love
Speaker 1: about this. And I remember talking to Bahamma Units about
Speaker 1: micro loans and what you could do with a small
Speaker 1: amount of money, the impact you could have on a family,
Speaker 1: and I think about what you're doing multiplied many times over.
Speaker 1: That allows people to have a financial identity, create a
Speaker 1: means for themselves and their family, and then even kind
Speaker 1: of work up the value chain. It's pretty remarkable and
Speaker 1: it impacts the country that they're in as well. That's
Speaker 1: true because the African entreprenewership capitalism in Africa is that
Speaker 1: the individual level, the entrepreneur whatever, and that individual supports
Speaker 1: the immediate family and sometimes they extended the family. So
Speaker 1: when they started this more enterprise. They provide their jobs
Speaker 1: for the entire family, They care of the education of
Speaker 1: the entire family, and essentially they become a catalyst. So
Speaker 1: small loans have very significant impact because of the individual capitalism.
Speaker 1: Africa is not compiy tized, so we don't have ute
Speaker 1: copy it. It is a small businesses that aggregate to
Speaker 1: the African economist, so speaking the African economies. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: let's talk about Kenya because an ambitious plan underway. You're
Speaker 1: an architect of it, Keny Kenya's Vision thirty I believe
Speaker 1: it's tell us what underneath that because the ambition is huge.
Speaker 1: Vision twenty staty is a long time strategic plan to
Speaker 1: tran to see Kenya transformed from a least developed country
Speaker 1: to a midle income economy. I've been the chairman Vision
Speaker 1: twenty Faty now for the last farteen years, and we
Speaker 1: have seen the economy move from a ten billion uest
Speaker 1: dollar size economy to a hundred billion dollars growing ten
Speaker 1: times within a period of thirteen years. In the process,
Speaker 1: we have created numerous jobs, thousands of jobs for young
Speaker 1: people because the country is very young, with a miniage
Speaker 1: of eighteen years, so the need for jobs is normals.
Speaker 1: But more importantly we have seen the law the private
Speaker 1: sector have prayed, and that is where equity have prayed
Speaker 1: a very significant role in providing credit, uh financial or support.
Speaker 1: But more importantly, the foundation provides capacity building. We do
Speaker 1: financially trust, we do enterpreneurship training and so once you
Speaker 1: combine credits and competence and capacity, we see the economy
Speaker 1: being moved. And in the process Kenya has have moved
Speaker 1: now to possession five in the continent from position sixteen.
Speaker 1: Within that video, what was interesting because you started this
Speaker 1: to think abound two thousand eight, which I think was
Speaker 1: an interesting time obviously around the world, a tough time,
Speaker 1: but it's fascinating kind of some of the things that
Speaker 1: you've done, like a fiber after cable project, but you
Speaker 1: also had to deal with governance and rulable. I mean
Speaker 1: you to get some basic things in place to be
Speaker 1: able to grow this right and and and and kind
Speaker 1: of grow the businesses. Yes, we broke them, uh the
Speaker 1: espilation of the people into three. The first one was governance,
Speaker 1: get it light in the way we have governed, and
Speaker 1: get transpalency, get accountability, and get a structure of governance
Speaker 1: that is reliable and predictable. The second one was look
Speaker 1: at the economy and enable the private sector investing the
Speaker 1: fiber optic, investing lords, power lad with air ports and
Speaker 1: pots so that the cost of doing business is reduced
Speaker 1: and private sector is facilitator. We called all that an
Speaker 1: album men of the private sector, so massive investment in UH.
Speaker 1: And then the last one was invested in the socio
Speaker 1: aspects of the people. Focus on education. We started with
Speaker 1: free primary education that now it's free UH day school
Speaker 1: education and on all the way to university and we
Speaker 1: now have a hundred percent transition from primary to secondary education.
Speaker 1: So you keep children through school for at least eighteen years.
Speaker 1: And when you think about sort of the future, part
Speaker 1: of it is creating these financial hubs like Dubai is
Speaker 1: a great example of something that really came to the
Speaker 1: form pretty quickly that really galvanizes people. It's a transportation hub,
Speaker 1: it's an economic hub, it's a financial hub. Do you
Speaker 1: have that same vision? True? UH. The aspilation of the
Speaker 1: vision was to make a financial sector. Kenya is not
Speaker 1: endowed with the nationality sources like me knows, so we
Speaker 1: focused on people and said what would people be good
Speaker 1: debt and we focused on services, so you find Kenya
Speaker 1: is the hub for banking, insurance companies, telecommunication, health and education.
Speaker 1: So essentially that's what we did. Then said the financial
Speaker 1: services would be an enabora in the whole legion. It
Speaker 1: would be uh. We needed to grow the banks to
Speaker 1: the size so that they can support their aspidations and
Speaker 1: the dreams of the people, because people have very strong dreams,
Speaker 1: but most of these dreams never come true because there
Speaker 1: is no enablement from a financial perspective, and Equity has
Speaker 1: played a very significant loan and supported that with the foundation.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to like for reastance to agriculture,
Speaker 1: a lot of farmers are supported to become a grow businesses,
Speaker 1: so you stop growing for the family, you grow for
Speaker 1: the market place. But debt practices needs to change, so
Speaker 1: that's where the bank then support and essentially then you
Speaker 1: have the entire legion and you're able them to finance
Speaker 1: infrastructure projects. We're able to cross board the businesses and
Speaker 1: so it becomes an integrated East African community and the
Speaker 1: way da Messa legion. That was the essence of making
Speaker 1: the rob a financial center and Equity has a reader
Speaker 1: pret the very big rock. It's now a two billion
Speaker 1: market caub bank within that setup. It's pretty remarkable. Great
Speaker 1: to have you here with us. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: for congratulations and being part of the Bloomberg Fair. Thank
Speaker 1: You're very impressive the work you're doing. James, here is
Speaker 1: the CEO of Equity Group Holdings joining us here at
Speaker 1: the Morgan Library. It's really fascinating. This is what I
Speaker 1: love about this list is you really get a window open.
Speaker 1: And this is the Bloomberg Bosines Week is known for,
Speaker 1: is taking us around the globe looking at activities and
Speaker 1: work that's being done um to help different folks um
Speaker 1: in different countries. And it's really fast and I really
Speaker 1: like some of the super relatives that he helped us
Speaker 1: understand there in terms of growth, because obviously you're in
Speaker 1: a situation where things have happened very fast. The scale
Speaker 1: is tremendous and the ambition as well well. And I
Speaker 1: I've always loved this whole idea. Muhammed units of the
Speaker 1: Grimming Bank created the micro loans and was doing it
Speaker 1: around the world, giving someone like fifty bucks or twenty
Speaker 1: bucks to start a business. It was often women and
Speaker 1: as a result, they often paid it back pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: and they were able to make a living to support
Speaker 1: their family and just better their family. Uh. And so
Speaker 1: it's really fascinating to see more of this work going on.
Speaker 1: So um, people are mully nailing around us good. You know,
Speaker 1: people sort of roll in. They see our TV set,
Speaker 1: our TV radio set. We've got a beautiful room sort
Speaker 1: of just behind where our guests are scredited. Another one
Speaker 1: of the Bloomberg fifty. She's there on the screen. She
Speaker 1: didn't take a Yeah, in fact, you're thinking about somewhere
Speaker 1: right now. But there will be cocktails, there'll be an afterparty,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's Monday in New York City.
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't we do this exactly a rady Monday, so
Speaker 1: one money Monday, just tuck in, uh, you know, and
Speaker 1: maybe if you're tucking in or you on your way home,
Speaker 1: I know this is what I'm gonna do when I
Speaker 1: finally get in a car later, I'm definitely turning on
Speaker 1: a podcast. I was just gonna say, you are our
Speaker 1: podcast guy. You're always like, did you listen to this?
Speaker 1: Did you listen to this? And we've got the next
Speaker 1: the perfect guest to talk about we do I mean
Speaker 1: and It's really exciting because this is an area of
Speaker 1: the market. I actually listened to an interview with these
Speaker 1: two guys on a Arrival network, another podcast, um, and
Speaker 1: it told the whole story. Let's bring in Alex Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: Of course, no relation to Bloomberg Business Week. We just
Speaker 1: want to put that out. Matt Lieber, co founders Gimblet Media.
Speaker 1: It's a company that they sold to Spotify for I million.
Speaker 1: Did I get the number right? Uh, that's what's been reported.
Speaker 1: You could make some news here. Um. Anyway, it was
Speaker 1: the biggest deal in podcast in the podcast industry. So
Speaker 1: nice to have you both here. Congratulations on being named
Speaker 1: Bloomberg fifty. Because we I mean, Jason does love podcast.
Speaker 1: We all do. UM tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: the podcast world, and I mean I feel like everybody
Speaker 1: does a podcast. How do you like distinguish yourself? But
Speaker 1: you saw it before anybody, I mean you really did
Speaker 1: for most people. Well, I think Matt and I were
Speaker 1: we started the company, uh and and uh we were
Speaker 1: both sort of coming at it from separate perspectives. I
Speaker 1: was I was working in podcasting already, I worked at
Speaker 1: this American life and I had uh started planning money
Speaker 1: with my co founder at Adam Davidson, and so I
Speaker 1: was seeing sort of like this excitement building around this
Speaker 1: new on demand way that like audio is getting delivered
Speaker 1: to people. And I just saw the excitement building and
Speaker 1: I was like, we just somebody should make more of these.
Speaker 1: And then Matt had was like in the on the
Speaker 1: other side of the sort of like uh of the
Speaker 1: of the of the scene, looking and seeing the same
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Peasure that Our insight was that if
Speaker 1: you look over the whole history of media, every time
Speaker 1: a new medium comes about, new, a new media company
Speaker 1: gets built. And so a hundred years ago, the new
Speaker 1: medium was radio, and that's when CBS got built, and
Speaker 1: that's when NBC got built, and we felt on demand
Speaker 1: digital audio podcasts were a new medium and we wanted
Speaker 1: to build a defining brand for this new medium. And
Speaker 1: that was gimma. But isn't it fascinating because it is
Speaker 1: like radio in terms of, you know, just listening to
Speaker 1: a great story being told. And I just think the
Speaker 1: simple part, it's just such a simple thing, but it's great.
Speaker 1: But it harkens back to radio, harkens even further back
Speaker 1: to that. I mean, I think, what if you think
Speaker 1: about like what we're doing in podcasts. A lot of
Speaker 1: times what we're doing is the is is one of
Speaker 1: the oldest forms of media in human existence is telling
Speaker 1: stories to one another. And we've been telling stories to
Speaker 1: one another before there was any other media available. Like
Speaker 1: many of the oldest stories in human history were oral
Speaker 1: stories before they were ever down they were they were
Speaker 1: telling them before human languages, even written language was invented.
Speaker 1: And so it's very deep and very primal. And uh,
Speaker 1: and I think that was one of the issues when
Speaker 1: we were sort of like first starting this company ever
Speaker 1: was like, but it's just talking, right, and we're like, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: But it's also on the backs of this new of
Speaker 1: of new technology and and all these new tools that
Speaker 1: we bring to it. And so where are we sort
Speaker 1: of in in the evolution here? Because you guys, as
Speaker 1: we said, we're early, a lot of people have sort
Speaker 1: of piled in. It feels like, I mean, we have
Speaker 1: a podcast, everybody has, like you know, everybody standing around
Speaker 1: it is probably has a podcast. Like where does it
Speaker 1: go next? We think we're just at the very beginning.
Speaker 1: And the term that um, I think you you've been
Speaker 1: using is that we're at the dawn of the second
Speaker 1: Golden Age of audio. The first golden age of audio
Speaker 1: was in the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties. It was
Speaker 1: when broadcast news was born. It was when you saw
Speaker 1: fiction like The Shadow with Orson Welles, Probable out and now.
Speaker 1: And you know, audio hasn't evolved that much in the
Speaker 1: last sixty seventy years until now. And now what you
Speaker 1: have are a couple of big technology changes. So you
Speaker 1: have smartphones in every pocket, you have connected cars coming online.
Speaker 1: A lot of listening happens in the cars, and you've
Speaker 1: got smart home devices that people are listening at home
Speaker 1: and even talking to their dashboard when they're in their car.
Speaker 1: And so all these things have combined for this whole
Speaker 1: new um listening kinds of listening experiences to come out
Speaker 1: and new sorts of storytelling. So there's a whole generation
Speaker 1: of creators being born now to work for this medium.
Speaker 1: It's a more intimate It's like radio, but it's more intimate. Um.
Speaker 1: There's something about putting on your headphones or something and
Speaker 1: just kind of when you listen to a podcast, it
Speaker 1: feels like you're listening to your best friend hang out
Speaker 1: with you tell you a story that's just made for you.
Speaker 1: But as Jay said, well, as you mentioned, everybody's got
Speaker 1: a podcast, what is it that makes a podcast stand out? Well?
Speaker 1: Are there's so much content out there? I mean, if
Speaker 1: we told you that, then you would just start your own.
Speaker 1: Is just a great story. I mean you're asking the
Speaker 1: question that is at the heart of every content company,
Speaker 1: which is like what people want? Right, and that, and
Speaker 1: and and and and the The scary truth is that,
Speaker 1: like that is an essential mystery. We can do our best,
Speaker 1: and we have been very successful so far, and we
Speaker 1: will continue to be successful, like eventually, you know, getting
Speaker 1: that right a bunch of times, but it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's really hard. I think the thing that like is
Speaker 1: true about audio though, is that it prizes two things
Speaker 1: above everything else. Like there's a very simple way that
Speaker 1: it is just it thrives on narrative. And so if
Speaker 1: you can just tell a simple story, like just for example,
Speaker 1: if I say to you, I got up this morning,
Speaker 1: I looked out the window and then I stopped. You're like, well, wait,
Speaker 1: that's all I did was say two sentences to you,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you want to listen to
Speaker 1: the third one. There's something that there's something that deep
Speaker 1: in in terms of like hearing a story, worry that people,
Speaker 1: it really grips you. So that's I think that is
Speaker 1: one of the key things that audio can deliver. And
Speaker 1: if you get that right over time, that's what people
Speaker 1: want to listen to. All Right, So let's talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about the business side of all of this,
Speaker 1: because storytelling is great. We all love telling stories, we
Speaker 1: like listening to them, we like telling them. We certainly
Speaker 1: like hearing ourselves talk because we do it for hours
Speaker 1: a day every day. But you guys figured out a
Speaker 1: way to make a real business out of this, something
Speaker 1: that Spotify was able to and willing to pay you
Speaker 1: a lot of money for. Clearly they see a business here.
Speaker 1: How does distribution ultimately work in a profitable way? Not? Um, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good that's a good question. We um we
Speaker 1: did build a business here, and so Gimlet is um
Speaker 1: it was mainly an advertising business. It turns out podcasting,
Speaker 1: this intimacy that happens in audio makes it great for storytelling.
Speaker 1: It also makes it great for advertising, and we're reaching
Speaker 1: a very unique consumer. They tend to be younger and
Speaker 1: more affluent, more educated, they're very hard to reach. Our
Speaker 1: for them is the unreachables, and we're getting them with
Speaker 1: this very um, direct, personal kind of ad product that
Speaker 1: really worked for us, and so so we built a
Speaker 1: business around that UM And then about a year ago
Speaker 1: we we started having more serious conversations with Spotify, and
Speaker 1: in Spotify we saw a really a global giant music
Speaker 1: company that you know today reaches over a quarter billion
Speaker 1: listeners around the world every month UM. And in that
Speaker 1: we saw distribution, We saw the opportunity to take gimblet
Speaker 1: and reach a global audience. We thought that together we
Speaker 1: could solve what is one of the fundamental problems for
Speaker 1: the medium and also for the business, which is discovery.
Speaker 1: So if you ask um, if you ask people what
Speaker 1: podcasts they listened to and how they found out, they're
Speaker 1: still basically finding out because their friend told them. They
Speaker 1: may have read it in media. But the kind of
Speaker 1: discovery that Spotify has unlocked to tell you about the
Speaker 1: right song, the right album, the right playlist, we thought
Speaker 1: that could work for a podcast too, and in doing
Speaker 1: so get to many many more people. Does it continue
Speaker 1: to be an advertising model that gets it to profitability?
Speaker 1: Can you say it again? Is it is it still
Speaker 1: an advertising model that gets podcast to profitability? Um? To
Speaker 1: talk fast ironically, I'm not getting your audio in kind
Speaker 1: of reading your lives right now. Um, well done. Yes,
Speaker 1: today's podcasts are mainly an advertising business. Does it continue
Speaker 1: to be that way? I think there's gonna be I
Speaker 1: think there's gonna be other all kinds of other forms
Speaker 1: of monetization. And Spotify is primarily a subscription business. The
Speaker 1: vast majority of Spotify's revenue comes in the form of
Speaker 1: paying subscribers. And um, we think we're gonna unlock new
Speaker 1: monetization models for for podcasts that will realize the true
Speaker 1: value of the media. All right, So I have to
Speaker 1: ask you, knowing your story, knowing that you both worked
Speaker 1: in public radio. Public radio, people who you know must
Speaker 1: be like they're happy ish for you, right, I mean
Speaker 1: that happy they like slave away like here they are,
Speaker 1: They're like and like you guys go and create this
Speaker 1: like sugar not. I mean that's amazing. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I think so. I think I think it was like
Speaker 1: a pretty big, a pretty big shock in the industry
Speaker 1: when the sale happened. I think just because like you know,
Speaker 1: it was like it made real this thing that up
Speaker 1: until that point had not had just been sort of theoretical,
Speaker 1: and so anytime, anytime, even if people were I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we know lots of people in the industry
Speaker 1: and many of my closest friends are in public radio.
Speaker 1: Uh and and I'm still very very tight with everybody,
Speaker 1: and so everybody knew what was happening. They were excited,
Speaker 1: they were rooting for us, yeah, saying mostly uh, but
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, it's a big shock when that when
Speaker 1: that thing happens, and it's like and you're like, wow,
Speaker 1: that like Alex thing, why didn't you like cut me
Speaker 1: in a little bit? They're just the thing that I
Speaker 1: think it was. Um, I think it was like what
Speaker 1: was gratifying I think for all of us in there
Speaker 1: is that it really we were slaving a way of
Speaker 1: doing this thing that we saw value it, Like we
Speaker 1: believed in this, like the product that we're making, and
Speaker 1: what the sale did wasn't legitimized that value that we
Speaker 1: saw in it for everybody. And I think that's a
Speaker 1: great thing for the entire excute. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: a I mean, I think when we look back on
Speaker 1: in one of the reasons you're on the Bloomberg fifties.
Speaker 1: It was a seminal moment, you know, in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways of saying, because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people who had dabbled in this were like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I sold an ad to whoever, and like it's barely
Speaker 1: covering my costs. Like this is something that that really
Speaker 1: legitimized it in a really big way. So what podcasts
Speaker 1: and for you guys is just blowing up even more.
Speaker 1: Like it's just like, I think what we're gonna see
Speaker 1: is we're gonna see lots and lots of new forms,
Speaker 1: lots and lots of new formats, lots of new people
Speaker 1: coming into into podcasting that haven't been here before. Um more, bigger, better,
Speaker 1: more creative, more exciting stuff, more stuff that we haven't imagined.
Speaker 1: Do the election kind of make it an interesting year
Speaker 1: in terms of content, Yeah, I mean you guys think
Speaker 1: about that. Well, yeah, I mean we're still tellers and
Speaker 1: this is the story. It's kind of exciting. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's super exciting, and and and the way and how
Speaker 1: how you cover that, you know, in all the different
Speaker 1: ways that we're thinking about covering it, We're excited. Yeah,
Speaker 1: doesn't want to give away to my secret exactly. Like
Speaker 1: all right, Alex Bloomberg and Matt Leeber, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Congratulations on Bloomberg fifty, Congratulations on the deal suddenly watch
Speaker 1: this space, thank you congratulations. Alright. So podcast, yeah, certain
Speaker 1: big thing, and I think it's so interesting to see
Speaker 1: that story and like Alex was talking about, like it
Speaker 1: legitimized in so many ways this business. And you do
Speaker 1: think about these seminal moments in media, and that certainly
Speaker 1: was one. But I guess what I think is interesting.
Speaker 1: And you're listening to, of course, Bloomberg Business Week, um
Speaker 1: a special edition. We're live from the Bloomberg fifty at
Speaker 1: the Morgan Library Museum. I'm Carol Master along with Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. But I think what's also interesting
Speaker 1: about it, and I guess what I was trying to
Speaker 1: get to is, you write, everybody's got a podcast, but
Speaker 1: there's something about the work that they've done that really
Speaker 1: stands out, that gets noticed, and that whole idea of
Speaker 1: really great storytelling and sometimes it's got a lot of
Speaker 1: bells and whistles and some of it very straight well,
Speaker 1: and one of the things we didn't get to talk about,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure you know, is that like they there's
Speaker 1: this whole meta element to this where they had their
Speaker 1: own podcast called Startup that business that built there and
Speaker 1: it was all about that in this window in UH
Speaker 1: was fascinating and it was a very it was a
Speaker 1: very real story. And you know, Alex Bloomberg worked at
Speaker 1: This American Life, I mean, and his story is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1: And he sort of came up through the administration, like
Speaker 1: he was literally like the office manager for UH, for
Speaker 1: This American Life and then became a producer and it
Speaker 1: was so it's pretty remarkable what they built, you know,
Speaker 1: two guys out of public radio, you know, creating something
Speaker 1: UH that was pretty amazing. While we are here at
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg fifties, yes we are, and it is bumping.
Speaker 1: People are starting to show up. I keep hearing things
Speaker 1: dropping behind. Yeah, I figure it's you dropping things, you know.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was this time interesting. Alright, so
Speaker 1: listen our next guest. It might not have been our
Speaker 1: plan initially, that is creating a supply chain technology company,
Speaker 1: but after a trip to Bangkok, she started ze Lingo.
Speaker 1: It's a direct to consumer fashion marketplace, but it went
Speaker 1: to become a lot more to its merchants. We're talking
Speaker 1: about on ket Bow. She is the co founder and
Speaker 1: the CEO of zie Lingo. You said it right, I
Speaker 1: said the usually how it happened. I sort of like
Speaker 1: muddled my way through it and then girl comes in
Speaker 1: and today anyway, great to have you with us. Congratulations
Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg fifty. Tell us about ze Lingo. So
Speaker 1: you know, everybody wears clothes and um, the bottle industry,
Speaker 1: the abottle in textile industry is almost five percent of
Speaker 1: global GDP, so it's huge, ye. But despite that, very
Speaker 1: little digitization, very technology has really touched the entire industry,
Speaker 1: which is which is remarkable exactly so unlike pharmaceuticals industrials, Uh,
Speaker 1: the way your iPhone is made, unlike any of that. Uh,
Speaker 1: there is very little traceability, UM, sustainability technology or really
Speaker 1: any amount of transparency in the supply chain in apparel,
Speaker 1: and that leads to all these problems that you hear
Speaker 1: often that fashion is accused of, which are all true.
Speaker 1: By the way that we're filling up the landfills. There
Speaker 1: may be little children working in factories in Vietnam, or
Speaker 1: in Indonesia or in Bangladesh. Making clothes for you, that
Speaker 1: you're buying here um or that the clothes are not sustainable,
Speaker 1: people are buying too much. All of that is true,
Speaker 1: and all of that can be solved with technology by
Speaker 1: creating a lot of transparency across the supply chain. So
Speaker 1: that's where we come in. We we provide a technology
Speaker 1: platform for mills, factories literally as upstream as the farmers,
Speaker 1: to interact with the brands that want products made by
Speaker 1: these people and make sure that it's done in a sustainable,
Speaker 1: transparent But that part of it, well, and I love
Speaker 1: the transparency piece of this. They have spent so much time.
Speaker 1: If we think about our big themes of nineteen uh,
Speaker 1: you know, fashionopolist and Thomas's great book about fast fashion
Speaker 1: and everything bad. Candidly that that's done and all the
Speaker 1: sort of bad will that it's engendered in a whole
Speaker 1: category of the population, I have to think that lack
Speaker 1: of transparency, though existed for a reason people didn't want.
Speaker 1: You do know how hard was it to sort of
Speaker 1: crack into this. So you're exactly right. Today the fashion
Speaker 1: supply chain has about twenty players, uh, and you only
Speaker 1: need five of them, which means that about fourteen or
Speaker 1: fifteen of those guys or girls are just there because
Speaker 1: they're agents. Their agents, they're traders. They're not adding a
Speaker 1: lot of value in the value chain, so there really
Speaker 1: either holding inventory. How they amazing, So that's like they're
Speaker 1: they're twenty and there need to be five incredible. So
Speaker 1: about fifteen of them don't like us a lot, but
Speaker 1: the five that are adding value, we're adding an immense
Speaker 1: amount of value to their business and just economics and
Speaker 1: then making sure that they're held accountable if they're not
Speaker 1: following the right. But to Jason's point, like how tough
Speaker 1: was it like making your in roads and so on
Speaker 1: and so forth, because I feel like it's such an
Speaker 1: established supply chain or supply you know that was out there.
Speaker 1: How tough was it to do this? Actually, once you
Speaker 1: go beyond the big manufacturers and you really go into
Speaker 1: the world of Asian manufacturing or South American manufacturing, or
Speaker 1: even right here in the US, it's quite fragmented. So uh,
Speaker 1: you know, most of fast fashion is made within a
Speaker 1: very fragmented manufacturer base. And then once you start giving
Speaker 1: them technology and bringing them online, it becomes much more
Speaker 1: easy for them to find their suppliers and their buyers
Speaker 1: and you know, transact without agents in the middle. So
Speaker 1: it's it's maybe it's hard in the beginning to get
Speaker 1: a critical mass in the new country or in a
Speaker 1: new area, or in a new in you know, subcategory
Speaker 1: like Denim's or or something, but once you do it,
Speaker 1: there's so much of a network fact that it spreads
Speaker 1: quite fast because businesses see the value very quickly. I
Speaker 1: wonder about the trade war, specifically the US China trade war,
Speaker 1: and what that has done for your business. So what's
Speaker 1: interesting is that I think there has been definitely a
Speaker 1: lot of volatility, or at least the fear of what
Speaker 1: might happen in the minds of brands the world over,
Speaker 1: and many of whom that sourced a majority of their
Speaker 1: products from China did they wanted to versify their portfolio
Speaker 1: a lot. So they want us to uh, you know.
Speaker 1: They they're not saying no China, They're saying, hey, can
Speaker 1: you de risk my business right by helping me understand
Speaker 1: how I should source them from where and making that
Speaker 1: transparent along the way. We're hearing that from a lot
Speaker 1: of the studios we talk about that they want to
Speaker 1: be having kind of manufacturing in the markets that they sell.
Speaker 1: They want to, as you said, de leverage that risk exactly,
Speaker 1: some optionality. Absolutely. So if you build your business where
Speaker 1: are you now, fresh infusion of capital, you're growing like crazy.
Speaker 1: Look like, I think twenty twenty is going to be
Speaker 1: super exciting for us. We recently launched in the United States,
Speaker 1: we started working with brands over here where now just
Speaker 1: recently started working with manufacturers in the U s as well. Um,
Speaker 1: so it's it's looking like is going to be very,
Speaker 1: very busy because we do have a business in eight
Speaker 1: countries in Asia as well, and UH. While I spend
Speaker 1: most of my time between Singapore in New York, now
Speaker 1: we have an office in l A, uh and we
Speaker 1: have lots of customers there. So it looks like it's
Speaker 1: going to be a crazy exciting What I was just
Speaker 1: gonna say, it is interesting sort of this idea of
Speaker 1: an American manufacturing l A does seem to be a
Speaker 1: little bit of the center of that. And yet even
Speaker 1: the American manufacturing is not immune to some of the
Speaker 1: issues that we've run into overseas exactly. So in fact,
Speaker 1: it's a myth that those problems don't exist in the
Speaker 1: US as well. Um, maybe maybe the practices are better,
Speaker 1: but they're not exactly optimized. We can use a lot
Speaker 1: more technology here as well. We can use a lot
Speaker 1: more transparency, digitization, uh you know, QC and line efficiency
Speaker 1: tools can be automated. So there's a lot that can
Speaker 1: be done. And it was a bit of a surprise
Speaker 1: to me personally when I came in and saw that
Speaker 1: there was just there was just so much to be done,
Speaker 1: even domestically here in the US. But now it seems
Speaker 1: like developed. I have to ask you, because I love
Speaker 1: talking to folks like you, because I feel like you're
Speaker 1: traveling the world, You're seeing smaller business, midsized businesses, all
Speaker 1: kinds of businesses. What's the global economy look like? I think,
Speaker 1: you know, despite despite every fear that people have in
Speaker 1: their minds right now about where the economies are going,
Speaker 1: where the economy is going, UM, I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of opportunity in the adversities that we're seeing as well. So,
Speaker 1: of course this is a very colored view from my
Speaker 1: viewpoint where you know, UM, on the one hand, we're
Speaker 1: saying we've hit peak apparel and really people should be
Speaker 1: consuming less and consuming better. All of that seems like
Speaker 1: such a huge opportunity to us, uh, because consumers is
Speaker 1: starting to ask questions and whold brands and businesses responsible conversations,
Speaker 1: which is exactly where we come in and say to
Speaker 1: the brand that listen, you don't know how to do this,
Speaker 1: that's okay because you know we're gonna help you. We're
Speaker 1: gonna help you, and you can be transparent, you can
Speaker 1: be sustainable and maybe you don't have to sell fifty
Speaker 1: items maybe yourself then and the economics can still be
Speaker 1: good for you. Exactly. And Katy Bows, did I say
Speaker 1: it right? Yes? Good? And Katy Bows is the cup
Speaker 1: founder and CEO of Zilingo, joining us here at the
Speaker 1: boom our fifty congratulation. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thanks good luck. That is so much. I feel like
Speaker 1: our world. I know it's great, I know, I mean,
Speaker 1: it really is the perfect summation in many ways because
Speaker 1: I have, you know, I've been reading so much of
Speaker 1: Dana Thomas's work. She's going to the show a couple
Speaker 1: of times, and you know, it is really affecting people's behavior.
Speaker 1: I know, you know, we talked about talking about it
Speaker 1: all the time with our kids, and sort of the
Speaker 1: decision I was thinking about it, even when I was
Speaker 1: thinking about like for Christmas. Is why do you know
Speaker 1: I want Debbie Kelly to buy me for Christmas? And
Speaker 1: I need to you know, have a certain amount of
Speaker 1: uh you know, I don't know I need to be
Speaker 1: thinking about these things in terms of my own closet.
Speaker 1: But I think and Keatie made a good point that
Speaker 1: you know, as a manufacturer, she said, it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: the fashion industry has to fall apart, but maybe, you know,
Speaker 1: I think about how I grew up. My mother was
Speaker 1: by quality and spend money on good good stuff. You
Speaker 1: don't need to have a lot, you know. And I
Speaker 1: think we're going back. I think we're kind of fully
Speaker 1: you know, coming back around to that way of thinking.
Speaker 1: And I definitely agree your your kids. I know my
Speaker 1: daughter she wants to know what the company stands for,
Speaker 1: what's the impact on the environment, And I think we're
Speaker 1: going to see more of that. And if you and
Speaker 1: I are starting to jump on board on that real
Speaker 1: old folks, I know, I like to think of us
Speaker 1: as younger you know. Yeah, I'm fine with youngest. Yeah exactly,
Speaker 1: let's go with that. Uh No, I mean it is
Speaker 1: interesting and it's a way that certainly will enact, I
Speaker 1: mean to me, one of the most interesting thing that
Speaker 1: on Keatie said was this notion that the supply chain
Speaker 1: has about fifteen too many people in it. That's crazy,
Speaker 1: but it also just shows how successful she's been because
Speaker 1: there if she's able to crack that incredible. That's what
Speaker 1: I was curious about, because I feel like these industries
Speaker 1: are so well established and that when somebody comes in
Speaker 1: with a new idea, but when it makes like I
Speaker 1: just think about our world in terms of online in
Speaker 1: the Internet, whether it's being able to go, you know,
Speaker 1: to Amazon directly or pick your other online retailer and
Speaker 1: kind of cut out a lot of things that we
Speaker 1: used to do before. It really makes a difference and
Speaker 1: it's really um certainly something that we all are taking
Speaker 1: part of. So let's get to our next guest. Yes,
Speaker 1: our last guest um bloomber Business Weeks names Seema Hingarani
Speaker 1: as one of the people to watch in We're already
Speaker 1: thinking about next year. She's the founder and chair of
Speaker 1: the nonprofit Girls Who Invest. It's dedicated to increasing the
Speaker 1: number of women in portfolio management and leadership in the
Speaker 1: asset management industry. So nice to have you here with us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you getful to be here. You guys have been around
Speaker 1: for a couple of years and you've had a lot
Speaker 1: of success and made some inroads. You are getting more
Speaker 1: women out there. Yeah, it's been fantastic. In four years,
Speaker 1: we've put through three d and fifty college women through
Speaker 1: our ten week on campus summer program, where that's four
Speaker 1: weeks of training in the classroom and then a six
Speaker 1: week paid internship at one of the leading asset manager
Speaker 1: firms in the world. It's been incredible. And of those
Speaker 1: women are staying in the investment business there staying. Are
Speaker 1: they moving up the ladder? They are. It's fantastic. Well,
Speaker 1: and see, one of the things that I love talking
Speaker 1: to you about is the fact you were on the
Speaker 1: other side of the table. You were you were distributing
Speaker 1: money and the ways you were picking a manager. So
Speaker 1: you saw that from the other side of the table.
Speaker 1: Why is it taken so long for the rest of
Speaker 1: the world to sort of get on board with this?
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's just coming up and saying,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we had to rethink this. We've been
Speaker 1: having trouble recruiting women in particular into our business. Uh,
Speaker 1: and yet we do the same thing over and over again.
Speaker 1: So when I talked to a lot of the large
Speaker 1: investment firms around the world, I would ask them, so,
Speaker 1: what do you do when you recruit And they would
Speaker 1: say to me, Oh, we go to these four colleges
Speaker 1: and we go to these investment banking programs. And I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you guys, I wonder how we're having a problem with diversity.
Speaker 1: Let's go bigger, broader and so find I'll do the work.
Speaker 1: I'll go find women across the entire country, from colleges
Speaker 1: all across the US, the different majors of study, different
Speaker 1: ethic backgrounds, different socio economic backgrounds, and I'll run a
Speaker 1: program through the summer and we'll train them up so
Speaker 1: that when we send them to you to these internships,
Speaker 1: they hit the ground running the same. I do wonder, though,
Speaker 1: if there's something different, because I feel like there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of talk for years about getting more women
Speaker 1: into kind of the financial industry. Is there something that's
Speaker 1: changed in the last couple of years. Is it finally
Speaker 1: understanding that the studies and the importance of diversification that
Speaker 1: it makes a difference in terms of financial difference, that
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, everybody's awakened. Yes, I think that's right.
Speaker 1: I think, Um, while the research has been out there,
Speaker 1: there's more research that shows and proves that more gender
Speaker 1: diverse teams get better outcomes. There's actually research now that
Speaker 1: shows that more mixed gender investment teams get better investment results,
Speaker 1: which goes to the heart of girls whom invest and
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do. And I think honestly in
Speaker 1: this country now with movements such as Time's Up and
Speaker 1: hashtagniqu too, it's certainly raised Uh. You know, more attention
Speaker 1: on this issue and more firms are paying attention. And
Speaker 1: I think the final push has really come from the
Speaker 1: big institutional investors. So you now have big public pension
Speaker 1: plans in particular saying to these investment managers, you know,
Speaker 1: if you don't have more diversity on your investment team.
Speaker 1: I've read the research too, and I believe the research.
Speaker 1: I don't believe you will get long term consistent investment returns,
Speaker 1: so I might pull my money from you and put
Speaker 1: it across this shoe. I'm so glad you brought that up,
Speaker 1: because it feels like that's what has to happen. And again,
Speaker 1: going back to uh, your time in New York City,
Speaker 1: like the money has to speak here, like that nothing's
Speaker 1: gonna change. I mean we talked about this with the
Speaker 1: s G as well, you know, and start ups. The
Speaker 1: source of the money essentially says no or change, nothing's
Speaker 1: going to happen. So you think that that is starting
Speaker 1: to happen. Yes, And it's certainly it's a combination. I mean,
Speaker 1: there are amazing leaders in our industry who do get it,
Speaker 1: and I've been trying to push to get it as
Speaker 1: broad based as we needed to get. Yes, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to have the big investors out there saying this
Speaker 1: isn't gonna work and standing up and actually pulling their
Speaker 1: capital and putting it elsewhere. So much of what you're
Speaker 1: doing is creating that pipeline, and I do think that's
Speaker 1: so important. But we've got to make sure that there's
Speaker 1: the support along the way and that really speaks to
Speaker 1: a company's culture and making sure that there's those folks
Speaker 1: to do that. So how do we get to that? Yes,
Speaker 1: is it just by getting more and more women into
Speaker 1: the industry or what? Well, So that's part of it. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, back when I was at the City of
Speaker 1: New York, and I was the c I O, and
Speaker 1: I have these conversations with the leaders of the business
Speaker 1: UM and I looked down at their organizational charts and say,
Speaker 1: you guys, were all the women on your investment team, right, UM.
Speaker 1: And so what they would say to me is, well,
Speaker 1: we don't get resumes from women, so clearly a pipeline issue,
Speaker 1: which I agree, maybe we do have that, and let's
Speaker 1: fix that. But I did say to them, then, you know,
Speaker 1: I'd like to have the other part of the conversation,
Speaker 1: no judging, no blaming, But there's still firms out there
Speaker 1: in our business set of cultures that are not so
Speaker 1: welcoming to women. So let's have that conversation to and
Speaker 1: tackle it from both ends. Make a lot more progress,
Speaker 1: a lot faster. So what I'm really encouraged by now
Speaker 1: is we are sitting down with the leadership of the
Speaker 1: industry and and talking about their cultures and why is
Speaker 1: it that once these women come in, they don't stay,
Speaker 1: And how do we help get these women to a
Speaker 1: position where they're getting promoted for these new opportunities, new
Speaker 1: growth opportunities that right now they're not really getting quit
Speaker 1: in those positions hallelujah. Great great point to end. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Sima Arani. She is um the founder
Speaker 1: and chair of the nonprofit Girls Who Invest. It's a
Speaker 1: great organization. Thank you so much. Thank you. Luck twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Alright on with the show. That was a great sixty minute,
Speaker 1: very quick sixty minutes. We are off to co host
Speaker 1: the dinner. Now we're going to be on stage with
Speaker 1: Joel Webber honoring all these great people. We're having a
Speaker 1: great time. I do love it. It's smart conversations, it's
Speaker 1: people from all walks of life. And what's really wonderful
Speaker 1: is you can also get a little bit more of
Speaker 1: this on our weekend show on Bloomberg business Week Radio
Speaker 1: and Bloomberg business Week TV. We're gonna be talking about
Speaker 1: tomorrow on our daily show as well. Tune in. This
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business Week.