1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,200
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. This classic

2
00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,280
Speaker 1: is rounded out our weekend of classics today, and we

3
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,559
Speaker 1: were going through our files and archives and we wanted

4
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: to find something a little bit holiday esque. You know.

5
00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: We had a couple choices, the origins of Christmas that's

6
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,279
Speaker 1: still a banger, but we landed on this one. When

7
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 1: a lot of people think of Christmas, the Christmas holiday,

8
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 1: they also think of, you know, angels, we have heard

9
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,279
Speaker 1: wild high or excuse me, angels, we have heard on high.

10
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 2: There we go the potato potato, my friend, No, it's true.

11
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,919
Speaker 2: And the idea of the voice of an angel, right,

12
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,520
Speaker 2: that's a concept usually referring to someone who could sing beautifully,

13
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 2: but sometimes the voice of an angel might liquefy your

14
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,480
Speaker 2: insides with the sheer velocity and power. Have you guys

15
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,680
Speaker 2: seen the OA. That's the show about, like angels and

16
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 2: their powers. Really interesting stuff and not at all what

17
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:00,600
Speaker 2: people maybe always associate with these beautiful winged creatures.

18
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 3: That's one of the things in the Bible, right, if

19
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 3: you get too close to God, or if you actually

20
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,000
Speaker 3: heard God, you know, or his messengers, you're probably gonna die,

21
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 3: or it's not gonna go well for you at least.

22
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,119
Speaker 1: So this is some weird stuff and we are going

23
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: to meet good friend of the show, John d in

24
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,399
Speaker 1: his exploration Yeah it's true, we text in his explorations

25
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,520
Speaker 1: of what is called the Enochian language.

26
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,839
Speaker 4: Let's jump in from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies.

27
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,800
Speaker 4: History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back

28
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 4: now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

29
00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

30
00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:56,480
Speaker 3: my name is Nolan.

31
00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,000
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our super

32
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,040
Speaker 1: producer Paul miss Control decad. Most importantly, you are you.

33
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,600
Speaker 1: You are here that makes this stuff they don't want

34
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 1: you to know. Longtime listeners, you'll note that recently we

35
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,959
Speaker 1: have been exploring some things that are more of the

36
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:21,959
Speaker 1: modern world. Corporate cover ups, ongoing investigations into hidden burial

37
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: places and things of that nature, many of which do

38
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:31,480
Speaker 1: point to genuine conspiracies, not conspiracy theories, but genuine conspiracies.

39
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,440
Speaker 1: Today we are delving into something a little bit different.

40
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: We're delving into a realm of spirituality, a realm of

41
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:46,320
Speaker 1: allegedly magic, and the area wherein science, magic and linguistics

42
00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: are said to converge. Let's start with angels today. Angels,

43
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,760
Speaker 1: at least in the Western world, have a pretty solidified image.

44
00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: You know, most people in the West, if you ask

45
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,920
Speaker 1: them just immediately to describe what an angel looks like,

46
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,320
Speaker 1: unless they've done some further reading, they're going to picture

47
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: a humanoid being, probably in a flowing robe or maybe nude,

48
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,480
Speaker 1: but androgynous and shining brightly.

49
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 3: There's a lot of white involved, a.

50
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,839
Speaker 1: Pair of large feathered wings, maybe multiple pairs sprouting from

51
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 1: the back. And sometimes the angel will also have a

52
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 1: halo or a harp, a halo being a circle of light,

53
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:36,760
Speaker 1: sometimes depicted as a band of some shiny golden metal

54
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 1: above their head. This of course, does not match one

55
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 1: to one with many biblical descriptions of angels, which this

56
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:47,920
Speaker 1: is something you'll appreciate.

57
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 3: Matt.

58
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,680
Speaker 1: From the X Files, there is a fantastic depiction of

59
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: an angel in an episode on the Nephelom. Do you

60
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: remember that one with the sickly children?

61
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 3: Yeah? Man, it's a little hazy for me, but that

62
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 3: sounds familiar. Are they were the sickly children the Nephilim? Yes,

63
00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 3: they were like children, or they were actually Nephelim.

64
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: They were spoiler alert, Yeah, they were actually Nephelim, and

65
00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 1: they had these mysterious genetic disorders, but they were being

66
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,480
Speaker 1: murdered one by one by a divine agent, which was

67
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,400
Speaker 1: an angel. And towards the very end spoiler alert, here's

68
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,880
Speaker 1: your chance to turn back now three two one spoilers.

69
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,239
Speaker 1: Toward the end of the episode, where you actually see

70
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,600
Speaker 1: this creature attacking someone, its faces shift because in some

71
00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 1: biblical descriptions of angels they have multiple faces. And of

72
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,919
Speaker 1: course there are many many different types of angels depending

73
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 1: on which civilization or culture you are investigating.

74
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 2: Man, I was certain you were going to say it

75
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,520
Speaker 2: was the chupacabra all along.

76
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: There is a chupacabra episode of X Files, and I

77
00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 1: believe in that episode three to one spoilers is a

78
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,480
Speaker 1: It is a fungal agent, an infection creates Chewbacabra. I

79
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,120
Speaker 1: believe someone That may be a different show, but there's

80
00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,440
Speaker 1: so many X Files episodes.

81
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 2: I have to say. Nephilim sounds like a great name

82
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,680
Speaker 2: for a metal band. It does not even exist, and

83
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 2: the Sickly Children great name for an album by said

84
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:15,720
Speaker 2: metal band.

85
00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, Nephlhem is a band, Yeah.

86
00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, of course I believe that episode of Exiles

87
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,720
Speaker 3: we're referencing was called All Souls. Yes, yes, I do

88
00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:25,160
Speaker 3: remember that episode.

89
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,640
Speaker 1: And they're not as good as the writers of X

90
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 1: Files are at this time. They are not making this

91
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,720
Speaker 1: up out of whole cloth, as the Idom goes. Instead,

92
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:42,039
Speaker 1: they are cribbing from beliefs of ancient civilizations far older,

93
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,280
Speaker 1: by the way, than the religions of the book, far

94
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,160
Speaker 1: older than Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. In fact, most ancient

95
00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: civilizations in the world believed in this concept of angels

96
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 1: or something very much like them, benevolent spirits representing a

97
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 1: more powerful deities. So they were almost like minor deities.

98
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: They could do little miracles. They were not as powerful

99
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,839
Speaker 1: as God, or not as powerful as whatever the supreme

100
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,160
Speaker 1: final boss deity was in a belief system, but they

101
00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,640
Speaker 1: had a heck of a lot more agency and power

102
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,000
Speaker 1: than mortals. Well maybe agency is a tough word. There

103
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,080
Speaker 1: huge argument about angels and free will that dates back

104
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 1: to the beginning of a lot of myths, So it's

105
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,720
Speaker 1: important to note here that not all angels are necessarily good.

106
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 1: We're gonna bust an angel stereotype today we'll get to

107
00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 1: that later on in today's episode. Here's this is fascinating.

108
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 1: So while the belief in angels or something like these

109
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 1: benevolent intercessing spirits may be ancient, it persists in the

110
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,320
Speaker 1: modern day, and the statistics may surprise some of us listening.

111
00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,520
Speaker 1: According to a twenty eleven poll that was published by CBS,

112
00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: seventy seven percent of adult in the United States believe

113
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,800
Speaker 1: angels are real. This is usually, of course, tied to religion.

114
00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,200
Speaker 1: Eighty eight percent of people identifying as Christian and ninety

115
00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 1: five percent of people identifying as evangelical Christians, along with

116
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,760
Speaker 1: ninety four percent of people who attend weekly religious services

117
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 1: of some sort, say yes they believe in angels. I'm

118
00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,680
Speaker 1: gonna pause here because that's a that's a tricky question.

119
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:31,239
Speaker 1: That statistic is worth challenging because it all depends upon

120
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,880
Speaker 1: how the question is asked. Yeah, you know what I mean.

121
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,200
Speaker 1: I think if you simply say, hey, do you If

122
00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,040
Speaker 1: you're catching people right outside of a church service as

123
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:43,440
Speaker 1: they're on their way out, and they say, do you

124
00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,440
Speaker 1: believe in angels, it's safe to say, just based on

125
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: how human psychology works, they're very much They're much more

126
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,000
Speaker 1: likely to say yes.

127
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,640
Speaker 3: There's all there's social pressure in that environment. If you

128
00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 3: did it that way, that's true. Agree and say uh yes, yes,

129
00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 3: of course I do.

130
00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 2: And there so often seems to be such an all

131
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 2: or nothing approach to that flavor of religion. Sorry, flavor

132
00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:04,760
Speaker 2: is a weird choice of words, but do you know

133
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:05,080
Speaker 2: what I mean?

134
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 3: Yeah?

135
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,240
Speaker 2: Like, it certainly feels like people would be encouraged to

136
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,400
Speaker 2: not just take the bits they like, but you have

137
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 2: to believe in all of the lore and every part

138
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 2: of what's in the Bible as being the.

139
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: Truth, or at least say you do. Because let's not

140
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 1: forget there's a lot of cherry picking from various religions.

141
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean, tale as old as time. But one of

142
00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 1: my favorite examples is this author who wrote a book

143
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 1: called Living Biblically. Have you guys heard of this book?

144
00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,760
Speaker 2: I have not. Oh wait, is this the one where

145
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,560
Speaker 2: he lives according to Leviticus the teachings of the Bible

146
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,440
Speaker 2: for a period of time and like wears his beard

147
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 2: long and all of that stuff. What's the guy's name,

148
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 2: AJJJ Jacobs. He was on Part Time Genius talking about.

149
00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,960
Speaker 1: This The Year of Living Biblically. One man's humble quest

150
00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,160
Speaker 1: to follow the Bible as literally as possible. He runs

151
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,400
Speaker 1: into a lot of stuff that was treated with great

152
00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,680
Speaker 1: import you know, but is generally not followed in today's

153
00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 1: modern age by most people who would consider themselves practitioners

154
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 1: of Christianity or practitioners of a faith of the Book

155
00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,160
Speaker 1: of the Abramaic variety. He ran into. One of the

156
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,040
Speaker 1: ones that was the most surprising to me was when

157
00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:25,240
Speaker 1: he ran into the ban against wearing two different types

158
00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,400
Speaker 1: of fabric. Yeah, that was a big deal. You were

159
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: not supposed to do that. And so often, even people

160
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,080
Speaker 1: who feel that they are following the letter and the

161
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 1: spirit of the law as determined by these religious works,

162
00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 1: they'll skip some stuff, you know what I mean. They'll

163
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 1: have some some polyester, I'll have some nylon or whatever

164
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 1: the band fabrics are.

165
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 3: But you gotta do what you gotta do.

166
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,079
Speaker 1: Man, you gotta do what you gotta do. But it

167
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,920
Speaker 1: may well surprise a lot of people to find that,

168
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 1: at least according to this study, the belief in angels

169
00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 1: is so prevalent in this increasingly secular world. So we

170
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,240
Speaker 1: have to ask ourselves, what is it about angels that

171
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,440
Speaker 1: so captures human imagination? Even now in twenty nineteen, and

172
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 1: to answer that question, we have to continue Maybe busting

173
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 1: myths is not a good choice words here, but we

174
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:26,199
Speaker 1: have to continue clarifying what angels were historically and how

175
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,200
Speaker 1: they became so closely associated with that cultural icon of

176
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 1: the flowing robes and the harp and the halo, which again,

177
00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 1: just it reminds me of how Coca Cola managed to

178
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,920
Speaker 1: codify the appearance of Santa Claus. Oh yeah, yeah, it's true,

179
00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,319
Speaker 1: it's true story. But here are the fact So yay.

180
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 1: First off, where does the name angel come from?

181
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 2: Well, the word itself is derived from the Greek word angelos,

182
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 2: which means messenger. Malik, the Hebrew word for angel, also

183
00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,000
Speaker 2: means messenger. In both words quite neatly fit in with

184
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,960
Speaker 2: the Persian word for angel, which is angaros, similarly meaning

185
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 2: a courier. Mm hmm.

186
00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:13,720
Speaker 1: So this so we know now that all of the

187
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 1: earlier uses of this concept meant someone who brings a message.

188
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,679
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, it's not servant or child or you know,

189
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,600
Speaker 3: any of these other things that you kind of sometimes

190
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,240
Speaker 3: are ascribed to angels, like the children of God in

191
00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,240
Speaker 3: some way, the offspring of God, the servants of God. No,

192
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 3: these are messengers of God.

193
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 1: And the various similarities between these preceding words and phrases

194
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 1: has led some researchers to speculate that the earliest form

195
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,360
Speaker 1: of what we would call angel comes from a Sinian

196
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:53,320
Speaker 1: linear b script, a Caro. And this leads us to

197
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 1: one of the most important crucial things we have to

198
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,240
Speaker 1: establish here if we haven't, if we haven't clearly said

199
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,360
Speaker 1: it already, the belief in angels or beings like them

200
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,160
Speaker 1: is in no way restricted to the Abramaic religions. We

201
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,680
Speaker 1: just tend to hear about this viewpoint, at least the

202
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 1: four of us, Matt Nol, Paul myself, because we live

203
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,440
Speaker 1: in the United States. We are in and of the

204
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 1: Western world, which means that most people are going to share,

205
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 1: even if they do not ascribe to a specific Abramaic religion,

206
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,720
Speaker 1: They're going to share that cultural view of what an

207
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:32,640
Speaker 1: angel is.

208
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:33,480
Speaker 3: You know.

209
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:38,600
Speaker 1: But this this is not a purely Christian, Judaic or

210
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:45,199
Speaker 1: Muslim thing. The ancient religion of Zoroastrianism has beings very

211
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,120
Speaker 1: very similar to angels, and Zoroastrianism is its own fascinating

212
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,280
Speaker 1: religion that we could do a do a different episode on.

213
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,840
Speaker 3: We really should because I want to dive deeper into that.

214
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,240
Speaker 1: It's the source of the name Mazda and cars. Actually

215
00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 1: that's one. It's it's fascinating for sure. In Abramaic religions,

216
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: angels are often depicted as these benevolent celestial beings and

217
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:16,760
Speaker 1: they're intermediaries between we mud walkers and God. And this

218
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,440
Speaker 1: makes sense, right because as you said earlier, Nolan, they're

219
00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: primarily depicted as messengers, but they have other roles too.

220
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 1: They do other stuff.

221
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, sometimes they'll pop down to protect someone, maybe

222
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:33,320
Speaker 3: impregnate someone. I mean that was God, right, that was

223
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 3: an angel or a dude.

224
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,680
Speaker 1: They also will smite people.

225
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, definitely. The archangels will come down and take

226
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,280
Speaker 3: you out if you're doing the wrong thing. But see,

227
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 3: it's so it's so interesting with some of the tales

228
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,400
Speaker 3: and philosophies behind intervention between heaven and Earth and all

229
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,840
Speaker 3: of these things. Ah, I love these topics so much.

230
00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, so they'll protect you, they'll smite you, they

231
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 3: might pregnant you, but they're what that's about it. They'll

232
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,840
Speaker 3: do little tasks sometimes.

233
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 1: Right task is signed by God, so that could be

234
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: anything from conveying a message to perhaps delivering someone from peril. Right,

235
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 1: They pray to God and God sends someone. It's interesting

236
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 1: because in some of the earlier appearances in the Old Testament,

237
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 1: for instance, God is a hands on manager. God shows

238
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 1: up and specifically talks to people. God will, God will

239
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:40,880
Speaker 1: directly intervene. And as the story continues, God seems to

240
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 1: be increasingly communicating through intermediaries and the Christian faith. It's

241
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,120
Speaker 1: through Jesus Christ for instance, right.

242
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,240
Speaker 3: And the yeah, the priest of its Catholic.

243
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, yes, spot on. And so what we

244
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 1: see is that the concept of what an angel is

245
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,000
Speaker 1: and what an angel evolved along with the commonly agreed

246
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 1: upon understanding of the nature of God. And within these

247
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: Abramaic religions, angels are organized into hierarchies. This happens in

248
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: other religions too, but the specifics of the hierarchy may

249
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,560
Speaker 1: differ across various belief systems. And that leads us to

250
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,640
Speaker 1: angels today. Right, So fast forward thousands of years of history.

251
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: We did a very quick and dirty summary of it.

252
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, the angels got in the outfield. The angels when

253
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 3: in the airwaves.

254
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 2: We said, yeah, that was you know, Tom Delong's Angels.

255
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 3: Yea, the angels definitely did other things.

256
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 1: They show up in the Twilight Zone. There's a lovely,

257
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 1: inept guardian angel attempting to earn its wings.

258
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,920
Speaker 2: Aw. That's a really sweet episode. That's one of the

259
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:51,880
Speaker 2: not depressing Twilight Zones.

260
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:53,360
Speaker 1: And that's one of the I think that's one of

261
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 1: the only recurrent characters in the Twilight Zone universe other

262
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 1: than you know, my boy Rod Serling.

263
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 2: You know what I think of when I think of

264
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,040
Speaker 2: angels as far as a depiction is the depiction of

265
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,479
Speaker 2: angels in Dogma by Kevin Smith, where they had no genitals.

266
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, angels have been depicted as androgynous beings in time,

267
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 1: which is strange because it doesn't really jibe with some

268
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: of the ancient angel stories, which we'll get to right.

269
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,120
Speaker 1: For the true believers, angels in the modern day largely

270
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 1: function as they did in the ancient past. More directly,

271
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 1: they're bringing messages from a deity and accomplishing earthly task

272
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 1: for that power, perhaps specifically focusing on one person. The

273
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 1: belief in a guardian angel that looks after you as

274
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,360
Speaker 1: an individual and your individual soul is still very much

275
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 1: in play in the world today, and this leads us

276
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 1: to another question, which is a question we do not

277
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,280
Speaker 1: mean in an offensive way at all. Your personal beliefs

278
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: are your own. It's a question that the world has

279
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,240
Speaker 1: still grappled with, which is this? Where is the proof?

280
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,600
Speaker 1: We have compelling evidence that more than half, well more

281
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,720
Speaker 1: than half of people in the United States claim to

282
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 1: believe in some sort of thing like this, But at

283
00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,400
Speaker 1: this point there has been no confirmed discovery of any

284
00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 1: physical leaving that would inarguably indicate the presence of something

285
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 1: matching the various descriptions of an angel. There have been

286
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: many alleged relics right. There are not only depictions in art,

287
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,879
Speaker 1: but also feathers or ectoplasm that purportedly manifested during a

288
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: divine sighting, interaction and situation. For lack of a better phrase,

289
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:52,399
Speaker 1: and the overwhelming mass of what people interpret as proof

290
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 1: of angels up to this point has unfortunately been based

291
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: on anecdotes, personal belief and faith. Again, this is not

292
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: to deride anybody who believes in these entities, nor is

293
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:09,280
Speaker 1: it meant to dismiss your personal views. It's it's best

294
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 1: to call it unfortunate simply because without physical, verifiable evidence,

295
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: most people who do not believe in these sorts of

296
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: creatures will never see a reason to change their minds.

297
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: Otherwise they'll say, oh, you have a story right where

298
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,000
Speaker 1: let's say you had a near death experience and you

299
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 1: spoke with something that you perceive to be an angel

300
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,640
Speaker 1: that told you you still had work to do, and

301
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: then you woke up in the hospital right miraculously recovering.

302
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 1: You have been dead for anywhere from two to thirteen

303
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: minutes or something like that, your heart wasn't beating. That's

304
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: a very common story. As a matter of fact, I

305
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: would be surprised if some of us listening today have

306
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 1: not had a near death experience or know someone who has. However,

307
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,479
Speaker 1: that story is not going to convince someone who says,

308
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,640
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they say I'm an atheist, or maybe

309
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 1: they say I'm a spiritual person, but I don't believe

310
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 1: in this kind of stuff. I think it's tradition. I

311
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:10,479
Speaker 1: think it's more folklore than fact, unless there were some

312
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: sort of physical evidence. Because you see, there may be

313
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,880
Speaker 1: one more piece of proof, something that true believers feel

314
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 1: is all too often ignored. What if, in a way,

315
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: the things people call angels have left a trace on

316
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 1: the waking world. And what if it wasn't you know,

317
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:36,159
Speaker 1: bones hollowed out somewhere between bird bones and human bones.

318
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 1: What if it wasn't a massive feathers secreted away in

319
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 1: some reliquary, right, what if it wasn't ectoplasm in a

320
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 1: hundreds year old vial.

321
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,960
Speaker 2: What if it was something a little more sophisticated, like

322
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 2: a language.

323
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, I'm in, you're in, let's learn about it. Back,

324
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 3: let's learn about it after a quick break from ah

325
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 3: on this, because we're gonna hear from response.

326
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: And we're back. It appears that we have not been

327
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: smited yet. So here's where it gets crazy. Language a

328
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,160
Speaker 1: language of angels. The concept of angelic script sounds pretty

329
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 1: bizarre at first, blush right, But for centuries people have

330
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: treated this concept with solemnity and seriousness. It is called

331
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 1: Enochian script after the Biblical character Enoch. And it all originates,

332
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,959
Speaker 1: I mean, at least on this earthly plane with a

333
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 1: guy named John d. D Ee. He'll be familiar to

334
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 1: some of us and to others might just be a

335
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: vague name. So who is this guy?

336
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: And he was real familiar to some from our alchemy episode.

337
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,440
Speaker 3: Yes, that's correct, so mister John d he is welcomed

338
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 3: into this world way back in fifteen twenty seven in London.

339
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 3: He was an English mathematician and a natural philosopher, which

340
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 3: at the time is I guess as close as you

341
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 3: could get to being a scientist or what would become

342
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 3: scientists and the predecessor. Really he was also a student

343
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 3: of the occult, as we mentioned, as you might imagine

344
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 3: knowing that he's involved in alchemy at some point in

345
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 3: his life. But this dude was, I don't know how

346
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:24,760
Speaker 3: to put it.

347
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: He was crazy educated, yes, oh man, at a time

348
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 1: when very few people went to school and a literacy

349
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 1: was rampant because you know, honestly, many people would live

350
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: their lives from cradle to grave without really needing to

351
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: know how to read. He entered Saint John's College, Cambridge

352
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: in fifteen forty two. He got a bachelor's degree there

353
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: and then a master's degree. He became a fellow of

354
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 1: Trinity College, Cambridge when it was founded in fifteen forty six.

355
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 1: This guy's old school and influential. Then he traveled to

356
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: Europe or as they would say, British pilance to the

357
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: continent and in fifteen forty seven, he made a short visit.

358
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 1: Then he stayed from forty eight to fifteen fifty one

359
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 1: studying under mathematician cartographers, people like Pedro Nunez, Gema Frisius,

360
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: Abraham Ortelius, and Mercader of the Mercader projection.

361
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's that one.

362
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: And he also did self directed study in Paris a

363
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: few other places that have been lost to history. He

364
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: started turning down opportunities. The University of Paris offered him

365
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: a professorship in mathematics in fifteen fifty one, and then

366
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: University of Oxford offered him essentially the same thing in

367
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 1: fifteen fifty four, but he said, no, no, no, no, no.

368
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to be an academic locked in some

369
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:53,360
Speaker 1: ivory tower. I have higher aims. I have political aims.

370
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to be a part of not royalty necessarily,

371
00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: but I want to be a part of the PA

372
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 3: that actually make the decisions.

373
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna parlay this big noggin of mine to

374
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 2: some power.

375
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 3: I could see him as both a protagonist and an

376
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 3: antagonist in some movie where he's the extremely intelligent guy

377
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: on the side, like the ja'far.

378
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 2: Sort of the Jap figure or a resputant type figure.

379
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, but he seems to be like at least

380
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: well intentioned to our knowledge.

381
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: And he was a huge icon fairly early on in

382
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: the pop culture at the time. The character of Prospero

383
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 1: and the Tempest is based on him. It's like, quote

384
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: unquote widely thought to be the case. It's true, it's

385
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: based on him. One guy's opinion. That's just my opinion.

386
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: But the evidence is there, so yeah. So he decides

387
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: that he's going to join the court, He's going to

388
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,120
Speaker 1: work in the service of the English crown. This plan

389
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: is successful. He returns to England and he becomes a

390
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: member of the court because he offers to teach mathematics

391
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: to courtiers and to navigators, and eventually he becomes a

392
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: consultant and astrologer to Queen Mary one. And this is

393
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 1: at this level of political power. This is similar to

394
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: being both on the cabinet of the president and the astrologer,

395
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: kind of like how Ronald Reagan had an astrologer. That's true,

396
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 1: you can.

397
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 2: Look it up.

398
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: That's that's cool, it's true.

399
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: This is a dream job, right, this is what he wanted.

400
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: It landed him in jail in fifteen fifty five, he

401
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: was charged with being a conjurer.

402
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 3: As yeah, it happens.

403
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: It let him out a little later, but it is

404
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: on the books, so this is the first time he

405
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: gets a criminal record.

406
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 3: I wonder what he conjured to get that sentence, or

407
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 3: was accused of conjuring. I didn't I didn't see that anywhere.

408
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: Maybe it was just a tiny little imp that he

409
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 3: was going to have assist him in his work. Wait,

410
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: what what conyea conjuring a small monkey? You know whatever?

411
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: Maybe it was just a small black cat.

412
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 2: Does aculous like inherently have a hunch, doesn't It doesn't

413
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 2: a homoculous have a hunch, doesn't have to It doesn't

414
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: have to have What is it? What is it? What

415
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: is a homunculus?

416
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: Then it is a it is almost like a familiar

417
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: depending on these stories, but it's it's created life, made

418
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: by an alchemist, usually with some combination of a bodily

419
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: fluid like blood, seamen or urine, certain types of incantations,

420
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: certain types of mud and herbs.

421
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: So it could it be a mud person or like

422
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: a rock creature of some kind given life.

423
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 3: It's closer to a golm ah.

424
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: Guys, I'm not trying to mess with you, but I've

425
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: always heard that term, and I've always associated it with

426
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: like an egor or like some sort of grotesque, you know,

427
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 2: disfigured sidekick.

428
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: They are usually they are usually supposed to be. I

429
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: don't know when they're depicted. They're they're typically going to

430
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: be depicted as deformed in some way or imperfect, because

431
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: only in this environment, only God can create a truly

432
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: perfect being. Right, So I have a I have a

433
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: recipe to build a homunculus, attributed to Paracelsis from his

434
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: book De Naturnaerum in fifteen thirty seven. If you want

435
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: to hear it, can we can?

436
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: We try it right now. I don't have the materials.

437
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: Well, we do, but it's not safe for work.

438
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 2: That's fair, thank you, lady. Just let's give it out.

439
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 1: Let's just hear it that the sperm of a man

440
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: be putrefied by itself in a sealed cucurbit for forty days,

441
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: and the highest degree of putrification in a horse's womb,

442
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: or at least so long that it comes to life

443
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: and moves itself and stirs, which is easily observed. After

444
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: this time, it will look somewhat like a man, but

445
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: transparent without a body. If after this it be fed

446
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: wisely with the arcanum of human blood and be nursed

447
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: for up to forty weeks, and be kept in the

448
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: even heat of the horse's womb, a living child grows

449
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: therefrom with all its members, like another child, which is

450
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: born of a woman, but much smaller.

451
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: I have questions, I would imagine, So does this involve

452
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: having sex with a horse. No, Well, but it says

453
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: the sperm has to putrefy in the horse's womb.

454
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: That's right, But it doesn't say anything about the horse

455
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: being alive.

456
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 2: Oh, so does this have Does this involve having sex

457
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 2: with a dead horse?

458
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: I don't think it has to. But that's really you know,

459
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: this is the wild West of alchemy at this point.

460
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 2: Man.

461
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: Uh, that's really If that's how you want to attend

462
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: to your homoculous then just don't tell me about it.

463
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: I also heard I also heard an alternative. The horse

464
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: was just an option. Right? You said you could also

465
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: do it and age it well to hear putrefy, I'm

466
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: hearing like ferment. Right? Is that that was how you

467
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: would maybe interpret that word aging the sperm? You could

468
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: do it in some kind of stone vessel.

469
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: I feel like for for this guy ind the Toro

470
00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: rerom the the.

471
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 2: The horse, his womb is tantamount.

472
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, there was a YouTube series of Homunculi where

473
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: this one dude was attempting to make homunculous or homunculi,

474
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,479
Speaker 3: and I'm pretty sure it must have been fake because

475
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: of the nasty puppetry that I believe he was doing

476
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 3: was just disgusting to look at, and the processes that

477
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: he was describing and all this stuff. It was back

478
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 3: in the day and I couldn't find it just now

479
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 3: trying to look it up. But does anyone else recall

480
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: seeing that and searching on YouTube perhaps of a guy

481
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 3: trying to make homunculi.

482
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: I've seen some stuff like it, and it was I

483
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: was inclined to believe it was a bit or performance art, okay,

484
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't know, man. Sometimes it can

485
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: be tough to tell when people are being sincere on

486
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: the internet and when they're having a go, when they're

487
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: having a laugh.

488
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: It was oh no, I found it. It was a

489
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: Russian YouTuber. I can't find the original one. It's a

490
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: bunch of re uploads. He's a Russian gentleman.

491
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: Well, sir, if you are listening, and we hope you

492
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: are doing well, and we look forward to hearing how

493
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: your experiments have worked out.

494
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: And just a little plug, our buddies Joe and Robert

495
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: over the stuff to blow your mind have a whole

496
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: episode on how to make a homunculus. Oh no, and

497
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: other horrors.

498
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: Oh no, oh horrors.

499
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a that's a little bit EDATORI yeah.

500
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: But sweet, howbout this John de Guy.

501
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: Yes, so he also had this interest in the cult.

502
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: Clearly he's an astrologer. This is the time when natural

503
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: philosophy represents both a mixture of what we would recognize

504
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: as science today and what we would recognize as magic

505
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: or the belief and such. He published something called the

506
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: monas Hieroglyphica, the Hieroglyphic Monad in fifteen sixty four, and

507
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: he made it through a secession of power. When Elizabeth

508
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: the First descended to the throne in fifteen fifty eight,

509
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: he became one of her scientific and medical advisors. And

510
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: then he was bawling so hard that sometime during the

511
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: mid fifteen sixties he built his own laboratory in Mortlake,

512
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: which was an area near London. He amassed the largest

513
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: private library in the country. He had over four thousand

514
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: books and manuscripts. This is in the fifteen sixties. You

515
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: know how long it took to make a book in

516
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: the fifteen hundreds.

517
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 3: And just to get that many books from all across

518
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: the world.

519
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: Probably, and he continually go's look at his scientific pursuit.

520
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: So he worked extensively with cartographers, navigators, people that he

521
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: considered intellectual peers, or even people that he thought were

522
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: just asking interesting questions. Because he was a one man library,

523
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: he would loan out these books. He would have people

524
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: over to read his books and his works. He published

525
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: widely across various disciplines, stuff like the Banger Hit General

526
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: and rare Memorials pertaining to the Perfect Art of Navigation

527
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: in fifteen seventy seven, and then he published stuff like

528
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 1: an Aphoristic Introduction his views on natural philosophy and Astrology

529
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: in fifteen fifty eight.

530
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 3: And this is pretty cool. He actually edited the first

531
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: version of Euclid's Elements into English, which was extremely helpful.

532
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: Thank you for doing that to all people that came

533
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: after you, John d. That was in fifteen seventy and

534
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: he also had this this I mean, we kind of

535
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 3: talked about it already, but he was so into the occult.

536
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 3: And I think it's because it's that thing that we

537
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: discuss on this show all the time, that line right

538
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: between magic and science, and he's already kind of writing

539
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: that line a little bit throughout his spiritual pursuits as

540
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: well as the scientific pursuits. And he just thought the

541
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 3: occult was the coolest thing. And it grew and grew

542
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 3: and grew his interest in this and that thing that

543
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: we talked about, the hieroglyphic monad that we just mentioned

544
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: up top, because in that he proposed this single mathematical symbol,

545
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 3: a magical symbol that was the key to unlocking basically everything.

546
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: It was like the one solution to the unity of

547
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 3: all things in nature. Yeah, as above so below.

548
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. And it's strange because his interest in

549
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: the occult seems to grow in step with his frustration

550
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: at scientific pursuit. He felt that there was a veil

551
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: between him and the true nature of reality.

552
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting to me how in these days

553
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: that whole pursuit of scientific knowledge was very much intertwined

554
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: in general, much more so than today when the world

555
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 2: seems so separate. Man of science, man of God and

556
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: all that, and a lot of the things that he

557
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: that you know, we look at as being mystical sort

558
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: of or a little bit more or a cult kind

559
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: of got broken off. The idea of the monad and

560
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: all that into philosophy. So that's it's almost like create

561
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: birth the whole nother pursuit kind of. If you think,

562
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's interesting.

563
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the same way that alchemy led to chemistry. Right,

564
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: this is so far. Let's call him the daytime John D. Right,

565
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: all right, brilliant. He's got an eccentric interest in the occult.

566
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: But how far did it go? What does he have

567
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,479
Speaker 1: to do with angels? Let's get to them after a

568
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. So here we have John D.

569
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: He's in the halls of power. He is considered a

570
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: world class authority on all manner of scientific pursuits and

571
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: disciplines and exercises in philosophy. He's also an unhappy dude.

572
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: He's getting increasingly frustrated because he wants to build a

573
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: comprehensive understanding of the natural world. And so in let's say,

574
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: maybe desperation or just In the next step of his

575
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 1: continuing quest, he began seeking supernatural or divine assistance. He

576
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: attempted to speak with angels in the fifteen hundreds. By

577
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: the way, you ran a severely high risk of death

578
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: or dismemberment by saying that you didn't believe in angels.

579
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: So anyone who doesn't count yourself lucky today. Right in

580
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: fifteen eighty one, specifically, he began performing a long series

581
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: of magical research projects. Earlier that year, when he was

582
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: around fifty four, he had written in his journal that

583
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: God had sent quote good angels to communicate directly with

584
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 1: human beings, and so he had set himself up to

585
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: make contact with these angels. But he had a problem.

586
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: You see, he was not a medium. He had attempted

587
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 1: to scry and found that he had no ability to

588
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: see the other side or interact with it. Scrine is

589
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 1: the act of a meditative or divinatory act, wherein you

590
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: might stare into a crystal ball, for instance, or in

591
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 1: some cultures an obsidian mirror or a container of water.

592
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I always thought it was when you look at

593
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 3: the top card of your library and you decide to

594
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 3: put it either on the back, on the top or

595
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: on the bottom of your library. That's that's just what

596
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 3: I thought.

597
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: That's a cool move in magic. Are you still playing magic?

598
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: Huh?

599
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 3: What now I'm talking about scrying.

600
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 2: Bro Okay, real magic.

601
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: Okay, that's right, Matt does scry with a deck of cards.

602
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 3: Help let me look at this. What is that terror? Okay?

603
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 2: Oh?

604
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: I thought I was gonna say seven of clubs, but

605
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: that is not your card. So those are the kind

606
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: of results that John d was having. He just he couldn't.

607
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: He couldn't divine this stuff. And he was honest enough

608
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,479
Speaker 1: with himself. This is very important. He was honest stuff

609
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,919
Speaker 1: with himself to say, well, I'm not doing it. I'm

610
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: not going to delude myself. I am certain that this

611
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: talent exists, but I am likewise certain that either I

612
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: do not have it or I don't have a strong

613
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: enough capacity to learn it. So eventually he did find

614
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: a medium, or at least he thought he did. He

615
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: held numerous seances in England and other European countries across

616
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: the continent in the company of his hired medium, a

617
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: fellow named Edward Kelly, who will get to in a moment.

618
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: He is very important in this story. In his attempt

619
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: to contact angels, Dee was seeking that universal language of creation.

620
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: He thought it would bring about a pre apocalyptic unity

621
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: of humankind. He thought that everyone, despite their differences, knowing

622
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 1: this language would discover some sort of tangible and supernatural

623
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: and philosophical truth about the nature of the universe and

624
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: Earth and humanity's placed in it, and that this would

625
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: promote peace, this would stop pointless wars. Someone like this

626
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 1: somewhat utopian, right, I can.

627
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 3: Totally see where he could get that belief. It sounds

628
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: very similar to some of the stuff we've been discussing

629
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 3: earlier with the whole Watchman Aussie Mandias, thing like if

630
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: we all had that one connection for sure, for certain

631
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: that makes the world bigger than us, then maybe we

632
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 3: would all get along.

633
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a lot of one stop shoppery in

634
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: the story of human aims.

635
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: Right.

636
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: The guy who who created Esperanto also thought that it

637
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: would help end war. Yeah, because everyone would speak the

638
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: same language. Yeah, Esperanto is a great language, by the way,

639
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 1: very few people speak it, but it's a great language.

640
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: I just remember like recent searching it back in the

641
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 3: day for the old website.

642
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 1: That's all and learning about William Shatner's Ye Wonderful film.

643
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: Well, well let's see. So John D he totally thinks

644
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 3: this is gonna happen, right, and he goes to some

645
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 3: pretty extensive lengths to try and make it happen, to

646
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 3: try and prove that it's true.

647
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have. He and Edward Kelly have hundreds and

648
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,320
Speaker 1: hundreds of sessions from fifteen eighty two until fifteen eighty seven.

649
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: And during these sessions they come to believe that they

650
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: are communicating regularly with actual angels, and they each have

651
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: their role to play. They're like a two man band.

652
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: So D will be the orator and the supplicant, so

653
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 1: he will be asking these questions. He will ask them

654
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: often by directing prayers to God and God's archangles, and

655
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: then he would invoke them to manifest themselves in his

656
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: scrying stone. For him, it was a black obsidian mirror.

657
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool.

658
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have seen those in person,

659
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 1: but they look really cool.

660
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 2: It kind of gives you like a sort of a

661
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,720
Speaker 2: blurred kind of reflection, right, black mirror esque.

662
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Kelly would act as the scrier.

663
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 1: So D is invoking these powers and asking them things,

664
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 1: and Kelly is watching for their reactions. He would see

665
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 1: visions projected in this mirror and he would describe them

666
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: to D and then D would write them down. So

667
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: cool and everything picks up steam. Around the year fifteen

668
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: eighty two or fifteen eighty three.

669
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's when John d and Edward Kelly claimed to

670
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 2: have received communication directly from the angels, who supposedly allegedly

671
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 2: provided them with the foundations of this language which can

672
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: be used to communicate with the other side. This angelic

673
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: language had its own alphabet in tax grammar, all of

674
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: which they wrote down in their journals, and they dubbed

675
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 2: this new language Enochian, which of course sprang from D's

676
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: idea that the biblical patriarch Enoch, sort of a Methuselah

677
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 2: esque figure in the Bible, was the last human to

678
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: know this language.

679
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: And D in common conversation, preferred to call this language

680
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: angelical or the celestial speech. He also called it the

681
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: first language of God Christ, and particularly he was fond

682
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: of calling it Adamical like Adam Ikel, because he claimed

683
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 1: it was the language spoken by Adam, the biblical Adam

684
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: in the garden of Eden during the naming of all

685
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: of God's creatures, walked the earth, swim to sea, fly.

686
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 3: In the air. That's an interesting concept that Adam somehow

687
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 3: spoke the same language as all of the angels.

688
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, is he gonna speak Esperanto?

689
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 3: Well, you know, it makes so much sense though, if

690
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: you're coming from heaven, were all the angels already exist,

691
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 3: and you're going to bestow life upon this creature in

692
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 3: this new world, in this new place, you teach them

693
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 3: the language, you know that?

694
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: Wow?

695
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because for d at this time, this

696
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: is not a crazy assumption. This is barely an assumption.

697
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,479
Speaker 1: He had not conceived of a world in which people

698
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: could exist without language, you know what I mean. Like,

699
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: at this time in the fifteen hundreds, there's not going

700
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: to be anyone arguing for the slow evolution of primates

701
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: right from an arboreal species to two legged people walking

702
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: and working out or accelerating their differences through a series

703
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: of a series of organized noises.

704
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: What what you're talking about?

705
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 1: So, I mean, that's what I say is people were

706
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: created according to the story that he had heard, and

707
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: that people would literally be killed for disagreeing with right

708
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: at this time, so of course there had to be

709
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: some sort of speech. How else would one communicate.

710
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 2: Well, it could be in the form of dance, like

711
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: in the Netflix show thea Oh yeah you guys reader

712
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: that that was the Angel language only I think there

713
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: was an alphabet. There was some written versions of it

714
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 2: in that show, but it was largely it was largely

715
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 2: communicated through these amazing dance moves.

716
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 3: I watched that so long ago, although it wasn't that long.

717
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: You remember the dancing like, yes, absolutely six, It feels

718
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: like a lifetime ago.

719
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 2: I feel like we're due for another season of that.

720
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it got Greenlab.

721
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just had the one season so far. I

722
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: think it did get renewed, but I don't know when

723
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: it's going to come out. It would be nice because

724
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: maybe they could answer even one of the questions the

725
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: post in season one.

726
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 3: But at least Punisher two is out right now.

727
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 2: Yes, not doing very well.

728
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: I don't care. It's so good.

729
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,799
Speaker 1: I enjoy it. I feel like I get it.

730
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 3: You know, it gets me so.

731
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: Punish her aside. These beings with whom d and Kelly

732
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: were in communication told them that being able to speak

733
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: this language, being able to speak this ancient, pre human

734
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: Anachian tongue would unlock the doors to unlimited knowledge, wisdom,

735
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: and power. So let's get away from those claims. Let's

736
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: look at what it actually is. You can go online

737
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: as you are listening to this episode, and you can

738
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: scroll through different analyzes and interpretations of versions of this alphabet.

739
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 1: It is composed of a twenty one letter alphabet. It

740
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: was written from right to left, unlike English. There are

741
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: two different versions. The first is in a manuscript that

742
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: d created called the First Five Books of the Mysteries.

743
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: The second, which is the more widely accepted version today,

744
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: comes from a book called Liber Logoth, which is allegedly

745
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: based on Kelly's original drawings. It's got forty nine great

746
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: lettered tables or squares that are made up of forty

747
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: nine by forty nine letters, and it's said to be

748
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: the first corpus of texts in this purportedly angelic language.

749
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: But the thing is, Dan Kelly said the angels never

750
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: translated the text in that book Dang. However, a year

751
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 1: later there were some texts that emerged that did come

752
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: with English translations, and therefore we see this as providing

753
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: the basis for Anachian vocabulary. The texts have poetic verses.

754
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 1: There are forty eight of them. D in his manuscripts

755
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: calls them the angelic keys, and each key is assigned

756
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: a specific function within this magical system. Dec was planning

757
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: to use them to open the forty nine gates of

758
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: wisdom or understanding, represented by the forty nine magic squares

759
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: in this pre existing book. Oh my gosh, So that's

760
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: that's longest. But surprise, it gets complicated.

761
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 3: I mean, just what am I doing with my life

762
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 3: if I if I can't have a goal like unlocking

763
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 3: the nine the forty nine gates of wisdom.

764
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 2: You just don't have magic squares.

765
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 3: That's just so cool, isn't it. If Like, if I go,

766
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 3: I'm going every day, I'm toiling in the basement somewhere.

767
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: It's really important not to compare yourselves to others. That's

768
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: what social media is causing us to do.

769
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: When I was in when I was carted off to

770
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: this smart kids camp in a different lifetime, one of

771
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: the things that they made us swear to do. They

772
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: were pretty lax on everything, but one of the things

773
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: they made us do was swear not to leave a

774
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: place they called the magic square, and one of the

775
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: other kids that was there with me was convinced that

776
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: it was evidence of some sort of devious arcane Shenanigan, whoa,

777
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 1: I think it was just an.

778
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't salt or anything. You're sure, well, I

779
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 3: mean no, But seriously, unlocking the forty nine Gates of

780
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 3: Wisdom is like the best quest that you could ever

781
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: find in a video game. That sounds incredible, But he

782
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 3: John d was trying to do that, irl.

783
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And that leads us to a question, did

784
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: he succeed? What a great question. Because of the loss

785
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: of parts of his original manuscripts, there are multiple, at

786
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: times conflicting interpretations regarding the meaning, validity, or authenticity of

787
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: this language. Almost immediately after it was first published, the

788
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: language was met with suspicion, skepticism, and not a small

789
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: dose of hostility, because by the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries,

790
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: this Enochian script was considered legitimate proof of communication with

791
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: other worldly or supernatural beings. Not angels, however, demons.

792
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes so much sense to me, just the

793
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 3: idea that a human could never reach the heights of

794
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: the heaven of the heavens to communicate with God. But

795
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 3: if you are attempting communication like that, a treacherous demon

796
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: from down below is going to intercede and then give

797
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 3: you lies, essentially on purpose.

798
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: The corruption yep to mislead you, right to put you

799
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 1: in rebellion against the true powers that be.

800
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 3: And the whole time you'd think that you're in communication

801
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: with angels.

802
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: One of the supporting platforms for that argument would be

803
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: the idea that the devil and infernal forces typically used

804
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: deception and trickery right to lead people away from the light.

805
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: They also be angels or supernatural entities that create this

806
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: language or communicated in it. Were said to have discredited

807
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: the existence of the Holy Ghost. These kind of the

808
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 1: idea that you shouldn't pray to or through Jesus Christ,

809
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: or that the Holy Ghost doesn't exist. They directly attack

810
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: the foundations of Christianity, and this caused people to conclude

811
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: that the quote unquote good angels that Dean Kelly contacted

812
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: were actually demons. Demons in this sense could be a

813
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:25,239
Speaker 1: reference to fallen angels, the formerly divine creatures that rebelled

814
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 1: against God, prompting a war in heaven and then were

815
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: cast down into the pit or escaped to the earth

816
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: or you know, it could be a reference to the Watchers.

817
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: Can also occur in the Book of Enoch, right, the

818
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: angels that were supposed to keep an eye on mankind,

819
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, be babysitters more or less,

820
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: but then lost their way, slept with the daughters of

821
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: men and created Nephelim.

822
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 2: Weren't those the big rock monsters from the Darren Aronofsky

823
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 2: Noah movie?

824
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: Yes, they were. Yeah, coolest part about that movie.

825
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but very out of left field.

826
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: It kind of like.

827
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 2: Threw me for a loop. Hold on.

828
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, but again, we were talking about skepticism at the

829
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: time and everything, and you know, I can hear some

830
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 3: of you out there. I can hear the skepticism in

831
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 3: my headphones front of you in the future. I can

832
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 3: just hear it, and I'm listening to it. I can

833
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 3: hear it because it's happening within me. Up, Yep, there

834
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 3: it is.

835
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: Again. It's just kind of a general cussorus.

836
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: But but I'm.

837
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 3: Not sure what it was, but it's I guess it's

838
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 3: just you kind of have to put yourself in the

839
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,440
Speaker 3: in really in the mindset, and that's what we've been

840
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 3: trying to do in building up to this, you know,

841
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 3: where we are giving you the history and the kind

842
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 3: of the background of this stuff. You just have to

843
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 3: put your mind yourself in the mindset of somebody in

844
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 3: the fifteen hundreds that truly, truly believes these things. And

845
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: this is your This is the concrete upon which you're

846
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 3: in entire world is built. So just remember that and

847
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 3: don't scoff at it.

848
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't be I mean, don't be dismissive. Look, there

849
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: were people who lived, you know, five hundred or two

850
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: thousand something years ago. Nowadays it's it's alarmingly easy for

851
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: people to modern age to dismiss those folks and say,

852
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: oh that was that was so uneducated, or how could

853
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: you believe this kind of thing, you know what I mean.

854
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: But we are benefiting from centuries and millennia of progress

855
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: that none of us living had anything to do with.

856
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: We are standing on the shoulders of giants, and we

857
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: are ourselves making assumptions that will look cartoonish to people

858
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 1: even twenty years from now.

859
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:52,280
Speaker 3: And we say all of that because it wasn't necessarily

860
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 3: in any way the spiritual nature of the claims that

861
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 3: were the things that seemed that people were most skeptical.

862
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: Yes, okay. So for the people who outright said this

863
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,919
Speaker 1: is Flynn flammery, this is malarkey, this is balderdash, there

864
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: were two primary factors that indicated to them this whole

865
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: thing was a fraud. First, Edward Kelly, who mentioned Edward

866
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: Kelly Alchemists, self described medium partner in this exploration with

867
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: John D. He had another life before his foray into

868
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: the spiritual frontier. He was a known counterfeiter, h he

869
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: had been arrested for forgery, he had been pilloried, he

870
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 1: had been to the dogs and back. So that makes him,

871
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, a person of questionable character. Secondly, the prophecies

872
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: mentioned in the anachi and communications don't actually come true,

873
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: even relatively mundane and specific ones, like there was a

874
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 1: claim that D would one day be tried for treason.

875
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: It was not.

876
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: So maybe they're misreading the timeline, maybe it's a syntax

877
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: error and translation.

878
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,359
Speaker 3: But still, if you're not getting things right and you're

879
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: working with somebody that already has a reputation as a

880
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 3: John D, you know, it really does kind of make

881
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 3: you question why he's choosing to go this route.

882
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: True, that's a good point, but we can see how

883
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 1: there was already a contingent of people that said, all right, everyone,

884
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: I know this sounds really cool, but we have to

885
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 1: check our sources. Right, let's go of the modern day,

886
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 1: this language, this script is still around, and now our

887
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: species has vastly more sophisticated tools, techniques, and in a

888
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 1: more profound understanding of how language in general is created, composed,

889
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: and continues to evolve. We now have people who travel

890
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: around the world just to find dying languages or just

891
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: to find new languages that are that are blossoming across

892
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:02,839
Speaker 1: the planet. So for true believers in the modern day,

893
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 1: this stuff is the real deal. Maybe not specifically angels.

894
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: Maybe Dean Kelly didn't know exactly what they were talking to,

895
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 1: like those old warnings against Ouiji boards. Yeah, but regardless,

896
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: people who consider themselves practicing magicians will often say this

897
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: is a proto language, arguably one of the first languages,

898
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 1: and as such it has incredible mystical power. Speaking things

899
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: like this, declaring them alters reality, very very very potent stuff.

900
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: But for linguist and for skeptics, the structure of the

901
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: language just does not match up with what we know

902
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 1: about every other human language. One of the primary critics

903
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: of this is a guy from Australia. His name is

904
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 1: Donald Lacok, and he argues that the phonetic features of

905
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: this language, Nachian or ademical script, indicate that it was

906
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: a form of glossali, which is speaking in tongues, which

907
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 1: we've still somehow not done an episode about, which.

908
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: Is fun because when you say glossal, yeah, it sounds

909
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: like speaking in tongues.

910
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: Picture, it sounds like a Cerro's song to me.

911
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's totally what they do, right, isn't that

912
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: like making up a language like on the Fly is

913
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: kind of.

914
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 3: I believe at least one album had featured that heavily.

915
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 2: I thought that was their whole thing, was they have

916
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: a language that vaguely sounds Icelandic, but it's actually kind

917
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 2: of their own thing.

918
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: It's like a hogendas.

919
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 3: Oh good lord, that would blow my mind. I thought

920
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: it was just that one concept album that they did that.

921
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe you might be right. I'm not like a

922
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 2: super fan. I like their music, but I always heard

923
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: that that was a thing. Maybe maybe I was hearing

924
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: that specifically about one one record.

925
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: Let us know, folks, what language is sigur Rose speaking?

926
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 1: Save us the Google search, so he doesn't end there.

927
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: Donald also argues that the syntax of anaki In is

928
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: almost identical with that of English rather than Semitic languages

929
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: like Arabic or Hebrew, which D claimed were direct degraded

930
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:16,520
Speaker 1: descendants of Anakian. And now most linguists are clearly going

931
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 1: to agree that this is not the secret language of angels?

932
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: But is it an actual language? If it was a

933
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: fraudulent enterprise? Was decomplicit in the deception? Was he in

934
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: on the joke? Was he an accomplice or a victim?

935
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? And how much money did he make? Really? In

936
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 3: the end, how much money do these guys make talking

937
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 3: about their angelic language. I'm interested. I'm gonna look it up,

938
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 3: but I don't. I haven't seen any of the actual

939
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 3: numbers there. And again, how much was like hidden? If there?

940
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: If money was made? I for my money, I would

941
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 3: say that just this is my opinion. D would probably

942
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 3: believe it just from what I know about him and

943
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 3: what I've learned about him and how intelligent he was,

944
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 3: unless he was just trying to find, you know, a

945
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 3: quick fix for money. But it doesn't seem like he

946
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 3: would need that. It seems like he truly believed it,

947
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 3: and maybe he got duped by Kelly. That's what it

948
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,160
Speaker 3: feels like to me.

949
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that this is a viewpoint A

950
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,160
Speaker 1: lot of people would agree with Matt because in his

951
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: work on the subject, Donald Lacok is clearly impressed by

952
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: the consistency of the system of the language or the

953
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 1: script at least, and he notes that it exhibits a

954
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 1: deeper understanding of the Kabbala, specifically than he would assume

955
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 1: someone like Edward Kelly possessed. But he still believes this

956
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: is a fraud. He does not believe this is an

957
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 1: otherworldly dictation or an exercise and automatic writing. He thinks

958
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: that Kelly most likely engineered this in pursuit of a

959
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 1: quick quid, and that was a sincere partner who was

960
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: unaware of the deception. In his mind, Kelly was surreptitiously

961
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 1: looking through the works of John Dee or his papers

962
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,440
Speaker 1: and cribbing that so that he could build something that

963
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: looked convincing to someone who would have D's knowledge. And

964
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: you can do that without understanding what you're mimicking.

965
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 3: Right, that's a terrifying concept.

966
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it happens. And Donald also believes there's evidence

967
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: that Kelly was working off of small notes in his sessions.

968
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: It's interesting in Kelly's book on the subject, you can

969
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: see specific times wherein the communications with the angels became garbled,

970
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:47,479
Speaker 1: and eventually Donald Laka just concludes that Kelly literally got

971
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: his notes in the wrong order and that's why things

972
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 1: didn't seem to make sense.

973
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 3: Dude.

974
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. Moreover, he notes how the language this is interesting,

975
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: how it seems to evolve over a short period of

976
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: time from when they again collecting the notes to when

977
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 1: they're really hitting their stride, And in one passage he

978
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: specifically ask a great question, it's this we have a quotation.

979
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 2: Can Kelly have got better at producing what was required

980
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: of him as time went on? He must have learned

981
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 2: a great deal from living in close contact with D,

982
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 2: and D's credulity would blind him to slight internal contradictions.

983
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: Interesting, so would he been able to present D's knowledge

984
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: back to him in a way that confirmed what D

985
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: was already certain of? And if so, after D ed

986
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: entered the sunk cost fallacy of investing so much belief

987
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 1: in time in this, would he have just maybe subconsciously

988
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: ignored things that were clear contradictions. There are a couple

989
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: times where d does note in inconsistency, but there are

990
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: a lot of times where he lets stuff slide. So

991
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: at this point is where it leaves us. People who

992
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: do not believe in the existence of supernatural beings, especially angels,

993
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 1: probably will not see the Inachian language as any solid proof.

994
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: There's not we're we're not really changing any minds here.

995
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: But people who do believe in this sort of stuff,

996
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: in the existence of angelic forces or even divine or

997
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 1: infernal forces that are intangible and usually imperceivable to humans,

998
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: they probably won't see the indication of fraud in the

999
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: Innachian language as an overall refutation of angels entire. I mean,

1000
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: it's kind of like saying that Australia doesn't exist because

1001
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: drop bears are not real?

1002
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,880
Speaker 3: Are you saying drop bears aren't real? You're stating that

1003
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 3: saying it?

1004
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: Send me, send me some evidence.

1005
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,920
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone who's ever come across a drop

1006
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 3: bear has lived to tell the tale, so I am

1007
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 3: holding off.

1008
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,200
Speaker 1: Then how do we have stories about drop bears?

1009
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 2: Uh?

1010
00:59:57,440 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 3: Obsidian mirror?

1011
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: Okay, well played, all right, I'm back in. But it's

1012
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 1: true one thing being false doesn't invalidate everything associated with it,

1013
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

1014
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.

1015
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,439
Speaker 1: It's kind of like it's kind of like saying, well,

1016
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: if Tuesday is real, why isn't it tuesday? Now? You

1017
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's not a very perfect I

1018
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: just want to have my best comparison.

1019
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 3: I just want to have that kind of argument all

1020
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 3: day long. If USB is the standard, then why isn't

1021
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 3: that USB?

1022
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: That's totally right. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm just I'm

1023
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: just some guy who doesn't speak Anakian. Not yet, not yet.

1024
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: We want to hear from you, however, Thank you so

1025
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: much for checking out today's episode. Uh, first things first,

1026
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: and this may be a personal question for some of us.

1027
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 1: Do you feel that it is possible to communicate with

1028
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 1: things that are perhaps beyond the pale, something from another dimension,

1029
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: something from a higher plane of existence. Let's get Graham

1030
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: Hancock with it. Let's see what happens when you speak

1031
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: directly to your DNA on a d MT trip.

1032
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 3: Right. Oh man, Yeah, that sentence was great.

1033
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean that's not me, that's Graham Hancock. That's what

1034
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: he believes. The machine elves and stuff oh sure.

1035
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 2: Sure, but just to put those words right next to

1036
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: each other to get a nice ring to it.

1037
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 1: What do you think that this is a case of

1038
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 1: historical fraud? Do you think there's something else to the story,

1039
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,439
Speaker 1: and if so, what or what are some other examples

1040
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: of strange languages that you have encountered. You know, we're

1041
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: fans of the Voyage manuscript over here, which I think

1042
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: someone recently claimed to have decoded it again, but that

1043
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: happens every few years, right. You can let us know

1044
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 1: about this through any number of ways. If you do

1045
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: not happen to have a black Obcity and Mirror with

1046
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 1: you at this time, or if you feel your scribing

1047
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: skills are a bit rusty and don't want to be mistranslated,

1048
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 1: you can always contact us via the internet. We are

1049
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: on Instagram, We're on Facebook, We're on Twitter. Talk to

1050
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,080
Speaker 1: the best part of the show your fellow listeners on

1051
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: our Facebook community page. Here's where it gets crazy. You

1052
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,080
Speaker 1: can follow me directly on Instagram where I am at

1053
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: Ben Bowlin, I am.

1054
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 2: At Embryonic Insider.

1055
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 3: I am not available.

1056
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: You are so available. You've been there for years now.

1057
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 2: You're the most emotionally available person I know if not

1058
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 2: social medialy available.

1059
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 3: I just like stalking you guys. I saw that great

1060
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 3: picture from the holiday party that we had, like the

1061
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 3: super late January holiday party.

1062
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody nagged me really hard on that because Ben said,

1063
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 2: we look, we really do know how to clean up.

1064
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 2: When someone says I didn't know a jean jacket was

1065
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: cleaning up, oh and no, but the rest of me

1066
01:02:58,480 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 2: was cleaned up. You know, a nice geen jack.

1067
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:00,840
Speaker 3: You know what you're doing.

1068
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 4: You're doing.

1069
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 3: You're doing the thing the in cells do where you're

1070
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 3: just seeing that one negative. It was the It was

1071
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 3: the only comment on the There are to comments.

1072
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 2: I saw into it early.

1073
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 3: It was very kind human beings.

1074
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: I think we looked good. The only thing that would

1075
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: have made that picture better is if our mysterious and

1076
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 1: enigmatic super producer, Paul Mission Control Decat would have deigned

1077
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: to make an appearance.

1078
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 3: Oh no, he We can't reveal Paul mission Control. If

1079
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 3: he doesn't have that air of mystery about him, what

1080
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 3: is the.

1081
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: Ship's basically over for us.

1082
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: People don't even understand how his last name is spelled.

1083
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:40,439
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna break that illusion either.

1084
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:45,439
Speaker 1: No, no, no, Omerta, Hey, this is like the third

1085
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: episode in a row where I've just said that as

1086
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 1: a non sequit actor. What were you gonna say?

1087
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 3: Nothing? I was just gonna say, send me your thoughts

1088
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 3: through your black op city and mirror, because now I'm

1089
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 3: thinking we need to install one here somewhere in the

1090
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 3: office where we can, I don't know, try and communicate

1091
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 3: or send things through.

1092
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:07,000
Speaker 2: Ben doesn't have a smartphone. Ben exclusively communicates via black

1093
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 2: obsidian mirror.

1094
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 3: Oh my god, look at your phones right now? Would

1095
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 3: that black mirror idea? I know we're joking, but just

1096
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 3: that concept of the black opsitian mirror, I've never actually

1097
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 3: made that connection.

1098
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: Oh nice, you're scrying.

1099
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 3: Oh god.

1100
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: Well, if you speaking of phones, if you prefer to

1101
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,120
Speaker 1: communicate to a phone, you can give us a call.

1102
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 1: We have our very own number.

1103
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 3: It is one eight three three std WYTK. Yes, give

1104
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,160
Speaker 3: us a call, leave us a message, and we'll see

1105
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,439
Speaker 3: what happens from there. It's gonna be cool no matter

1106
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 3: what it is. By the way, by calling and leaving

1107
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 3: a message, you give us permission to use your voice

1108
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 3: in the podcast.

1109
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: Or this is a Facebook announcement for a twenty bucks

1110
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: or something extra, will wire tap your phone know about this?

1111
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,040
Speaker 1: What Okay, I don't want to keep us going.

1112
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 3: Too long, but neither does Paul.

1113
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,440
Speaker 1: I could say, but this is important. This is important

1114
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 1: for anybody who is a teen or has a teenager

1115
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: who was using Facebook. I think they cut it short

1116
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: because lawmakers became furious with this. But Facebook was offering

1117
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: teenagers a nominal fee for complete access to everything they

1118
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 1: do on their phone. Whoa, it was a Facebook research product.

1119
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: They would have teenagers install a VPN that let the

1120
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: company see everything they did there. And this story just

1121
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: broke as we were going into the into the booth.

1122
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm going to look at that now.

1123
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 1: Some of those kids are as young as thirteen.

1124
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 3: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

1125
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 3: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

1126
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 3: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

1127
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 3: One of the best is to give us a call.

1128
01:05:56,840 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 3: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. If

1129
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 3: you don't want to do that, you can send us

1130
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 3: a good old fashioned email.

1131
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1132
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 3: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1133
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:16,000
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1134
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 3: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.