WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 121121 Whitewashing Blackness (Part A) 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.120 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host, 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:04.520 ramses joh I. 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.080 Go by the name of Q ward. Ram has caused 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:12.959 me Q. My mom calls me Q, so you might 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:13.800 as well call me Q. 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:17.720 And sometimes your mom calls you Q dirty, And that's 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:18.240 all right. 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:19.880 Too, mom calls me Do you know how cool it 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.000 is that my mom calls me Q dirty? 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:24.680 I love that. 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.880 Anyway, I got another excellent show for you today and 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.559 an interesting show a lot for you to stick around for, 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.960 so stay tuned because we are going to be talking 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:38.760 about a story that's come up a couple of times 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:46.000 this week about a family that, without giving too much away, 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.000 we'll say, had to quote unquote play the game with 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:55.080 their house in order to get a fair appraisal. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.200 And you know, we're going to talk about that, peel 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.760 back a couple of layers and hopefully share personal examples 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:03.560 because I know I've had to do that before, and 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:05.200 I know you've had to do We both have had 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.000 to do that before in the same room, so definitely 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.360 want to talk about that. We're also going to you know, 0:01:12.680 --> 0:01:15.119 there's a couple of common motifs around here, so we're 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.040 going to talk about what it means to be a bully. 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:21.720 There's been a lot of videos that we've seen this week. 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.959 Normally we've tried to you know, ping pong back and forth, 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.400 but I know this week we've shared we've both seen 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.119 a lot of videos, some of which have included human 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.959 beings losing their lives at the hands of police, unfairly 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.920 by all accounts, even those police departments. And so we 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.640 want to really pull back a couple of layers there 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:47.560 and really challenge the hero narrative, not because it's not deserved, 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.600 but because it doesn't really leave a lot of space 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.400 for errors for people that don't want to think critically 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.720 about this. These institutions will say, and a lot more 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.200 to come as well. But first we are going to 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:10.079 discuss some ebony excellence. So this week we're going to 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:15.760 talk about someone who's near physically near to you out 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.519 there in Atlanta. She goes by the name of Stacy Abrams. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.079 So well, first off, what's your thoughts on on Stacy Abrams. 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:29.520 So, part of our plight as a people, and I 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.520 don't mean just black people, I mean people in general, 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:40.520 is our lack of ability to find common ground. There 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:43.400 is far more that we have in common than what 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.079 separates us. Sure, we spend so much more time on 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:52.440 what separates us. Stacy Abrams has found a way to 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:57.400 at least have some collective of people with a singular agenda. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.880 And she's been able to organize and mobilize in a 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.600 way that many people have tried, but not many have 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.520 been as successful as she has. So she had an 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.720 unsuccessful run for governor. People I think eventually thought that 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.960 she would run for mayor. But what she did is 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.120 she just found a way to organize people who had 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.400 the same thoughts, the same ideas, had the same goals 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.800 and wanted to reach the same point, and got all 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.120 those people to organize, mobilize and get in the streets, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.520 bro get people to vote, get people to show up 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:35.520 at the polls. And she's almost singularly responsible for the 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:40.400 Democrats having the representation that they needed from those seats 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.600 that were available in Georgia. I remember that flipping the 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.040 state and getting people to come out in large numbers 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:50.000 to you know, show up and vote, and her ability 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.400 to organize, I think she's going to use for her 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.840 own benefit this time, because she did run for governor 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.000 before she lost to Brian Kemp. And the way that 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.360 you know may have been a little fishy right right, However, 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:05.760 she's the one, bro, if we had to champion someone, 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.920 she's the one. I think her chances of success this 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.280 time are really high. But you and I have gone 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.880 back and forth in this show about all the ways 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:18.440 that our legislators, our politicians, the people that we put 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.320 in office, are now going out of their way to 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.559 make it more difficult for more people to vote. She's 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.720 the person on the opposite side of that. She might 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.400 even be directly responsible for all of these states doubling 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.159 down on making it harder for poor people and people 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.440 of color to show up at these polls. 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:36.679 And to vote. 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.720 So shout out to her for being a person of 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.400 the people, not just people that look like her, and 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.520 not just people that have her ideas, but just people 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:46.080 in general. 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:48.840 Well that sounds like em any excellence to me. So 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.839 we'll take that all day again. Shout out to Stacy 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.040 Abrams and hopefully she has a successful run for governor. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:04.279 Moving on, all right, So you know the story too, 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.240 because we've shared, you know, in preparation for today's show. 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:16.680 Black Couple. Uh oh here we go. Yeah. Well, first, 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:22.560 the reason that we share these types of issues on 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.280 this program. Is because you know, some of the news 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.640 sources aren't able to peel back the layers the way 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.440 that we feel might be necessary, you know, for folks 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.800 to really be able to know what the experience is like. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:44.400 And we are trying to create more empathetic allies or 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.520 more empathetic people who, you know, maybe they're on the 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.280 fringes or they're living their own lives and they don't 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.360 really consider themselves allies to the plight of like black 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.000 and brown people in this country. And so we're we're 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.600 hoping to explain things in a way that is beyond 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.719 the text that you might find and you know, just 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:04.839 kind of give it some some more context. And so 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.960 I'll begin long story short, and my sources come from 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.640 the Washington Post and the Daily Mail and the United Kingdom, 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.120 who did a cover for the story as well. Black 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:21.520 couple ultimately ended up suing a real estate agency after 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.479 their Bay Area home was valued at just nine hundred 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:29.360 and ninety five thousand dollars, but a one point four 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.800 to two million dollar valuation came about when they removed 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:37.680 all photos of themselves and asked white friends to pose 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:43.000 as the owners. For viewing when the appraiser came to 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.760 view the property a second time. So just by swapping 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.880 out the family photos and them not being there themselves 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:53.920 and having a white couple come in, they gained, you know, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.560 nearly half a million dollars in additional wealth in their 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:01.800 appraisal of their property. Right now, there are a lot 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:04.040 of people that might say, well, this is one example 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.400 that you know that's not across the board, and you know, 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.760 to a degree, they might be right. But overall, based 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:16.760 on the experience that I've had that the people that 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:21.200 I know have had, you know, this is like when 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:22.800 I first read this, I was like, oh my god, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:25.160 that's genius. I wonder how much my house would have 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.720 been worth if I had done that. What a what 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.240 an excellent idea? Right not to say that, I was, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.920 you know, I fortunately, I've had a very I'm very 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.320 very good run. And so I live in a nice 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.320 house in a nice neighborhood, and you know, the property 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.000 values they kind of you know, have a I wouldn't 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.239 be able to lose too much value. But in this house, 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:46.760 I was able to see it, and I could see 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.800 that they had added additional construction elements, and so forth, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:54.200 which is not really possible where I live. So but 0:07:54.360 --> 0:07:56.880 let me finish and then we'll get into this. So 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.320 the couple's name is Paul and Tanisha Austin, and they 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.640 believed that race was the reason that their home was 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:10.680 undervalued because the only thing that they had changed was 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.280 the race of the people. Trying to get the valuation 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:17.280 on the property. Again, they bought the home in twenty 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:20.600 sixteen for eight hundred and ninety thousand. It was valued 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.680 at nine hundred and ninety five thousand, despite spending four 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.880 hundred thousand dollars on renovations. Again, that's not really possible 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.120 where I'm at. So you know, some other details here, 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.320 and then as I mentioned, they brought in some friends 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.200 of theirs to sit in the house and kind of 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:42.760 receive the valuation under their name Paul and Tanisha Austin, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.000 and then of course, you know, they got the higher valuation. 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:53.480 This process is called whitewashing. Now, I got at least 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.520 one story that I can share, but I know many 0:08:56.640 --> 0:09:00.960 examples throughout my life when this type of tactic, not 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:05.040 this exact tactic, but this type of tactic has been necessary, 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:10.480 and I'll share one of them. So where I live 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:19.760 in Arizona. I have to interact with people. Some of 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.600 these people are business people, right, and they're accustomed to 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.840 doing business with folks that look like them. And I 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.960 understood that, right, So you know, the platonic ideal, whatever's 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.079 in your mind right now, if I had to guess, 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:36.760 it's a white, middle aged male in a business suit, 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:39.040 you know, and he's got a briefcase, and this is 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.880 the business person that I will be interacting with, And 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.120 you wouldn't be wrong because this is the type of 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:49.640 person I have to interact with. And I remember early on, 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:58.000 I created a company to procure advertisements. You know, I 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.600 work in radio and uh. I was trying to put 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:07.520 together these ad packages for various companies and organizations that 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:11.920 included me in the advertising package, right, so I could 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.440 get paid for doing the media buys, but also I 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:18.520 could get paid as the endorser of said initiative, right 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.200 or whatever call to action. There was my background, like 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:25.800 I went to school. My bachelor's is in marketing, my 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:28.480 master's is in management. I know how to talk to talk, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:30.319 I know how to walk the walk. I have results. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:34.600 You know, I don't, okay, you know out here, but 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.280 I look how I look. Uh, you know, and and 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:40.360 to be fair, it's not just that I'm black. I'm 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:41.840 also very young. 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:44.600 Can you describe? Can you describe how you look for 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:49.160 our listeners who have who don't be that's important, right. 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.480 I'm sorry to cut Ramdas off, but you guys, hear 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.360 Ram this is amazing voice. And you may have no 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.520 idea how he looks because he's so well spoken and 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:01.439 so articulate. 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:02.720 That's very kinring. 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.080 He looks like the type of person that someone would 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.760 say that about. He's so well spoken. Sure, such a 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:11.400 such a such a a. 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:18.319 Backhanded compliment, right, exactly exactly, But these things in my 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:23.480 more formative years had informed how I would quote unquote 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.320 play the game, how I would do my whitewashing because 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.199 of backhanded compliments like that. I knew that I had 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.840 the potential, But I also knew I had the potential 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:39.400 provided that I, you know, took a a less obvious route. 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.000 And I'll get to that in just a second. That 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:45.800 might be a little misleading, but I you know, I 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.080 know how to put on a suit, so you know, 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.080 I my tattoos don't really come into play when I 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:52.880 have a suit on and I'm in a business meeting, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.640 which was the case in this one example. But I 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:02.120 do wear my hair the way God intended. Right. In 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.640 other words, my hair grows and it reaches for the sky. 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.320 It's an afro, you know, or a crown or whatever 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:11.640 you like to call it. It's just it's my hair. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.280 That's how it comes, right. I don't change it. I 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.520 don't really do anything to it. It's just it just 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.200 is what it is. Right and to the wrong people 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:25.720 that can be intimidating, or that can be in their opinion, 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:31.080 unprofessional or whatever the case is. Right, And obviously everyone 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.280 has to play the game, but there are some rules 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.640 that I will not play by. You know. I will 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:39.920 be the way God made me. My hair will be 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.040 the way God made it. You know, I'm not gonna 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:46.959 I can't change that. It's encoded into my genetics, right, 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.800 and nor should me or anybody else change who they 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.640 fundamentally are to you know, have to play this game. 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:58.600 But I also recognize that if I'm not going to 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:04.000 budge that, I have to work in a workaround. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:04.560 Right. 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.800 My hair has always been a part of my brand. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:10.360 You know, we say this all the time, but Q 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.160 and I are DJs, you know, and part of being 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.200 in DJ and entertainer is you know, having a certain 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.920 look right and for me, in addition to me wearing 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.679 my hair for my own reasons, my own spiritual and 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.400 personal and cultural reasons, my hair is also a part 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.280 of my brand. You know. It's just kind of one 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:29.839 of those things folks associated with. So there's no way 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.160 around this, no matter how you look at it, fiscally 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:37.880 or otherwise. So what I did when I was meeting 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.320 with the Health Department was I was working on a 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:47.600 health campaign with the Health Department. Prior to actually meeting 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:49.640 these folks, I had done a lot of emailing back 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.680 and forth letting them know, Hey, I could help you 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.040 with your media buys. I can help you with your 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:57.280 outdoor buys. You can buy billboards and these zip codes. 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:03.960 You can you know, buy advertisement in these magazines. You 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:06.800 can buy radio ads you know, on these radio stations, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:08.840 and you can put together a campaign that will reach 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.640 the folks that you're really trying to reach and have 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:18.000 multiple impressions from different sources that I believe will you know, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.120 get the word out the way you'd like and be effective, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.200 you know, And I can help you craft the language 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.280 and the visuals and so forth, because I know the 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.760 people you're trying to reach and I can help you 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.240 reach them, and they love this, you know. So the 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.680 ideas flowed back and forth, back and forth, and then 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.240 time came for us to have a meeting. I was 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.080 working with a much bigger ad agency to actually handle 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.000 my media, yes, and so they weren't in the deal 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.000 as of yet. They just kind of had my back 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:47.680 if I needed to come with them with a budget, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.520 you know. So it's a six figure deal that I 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:54.120 was working on, and I knew prior to going into 0:14:54.160 --> 0:15:00.920 this meeting that, uh, I'm going to need someone that 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.520 these folks can talk to. And as it turns out, 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:09.200 I had a friend named Russ. I still have this friend, right, 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.440 And Russ and I had been through a lot together. 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.160 We'll say that. But Russ is just like you think. 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.920 He's a middle aged white man, looks great in a tie, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.920 looks like he knows what he's talking about. And he 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:29.600 understood that. I was fine being the cool guy. But 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.760 when it came time to have these really important conversations, 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.880 despite my education, despite my familiarity with the subject matter, 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.800 and despite them being my actual ideas, that I came 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:45.960 up on my own, in my own space, I would 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.080 never be able to I wouldn't be listened to in 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.600 the same way. And so I asked him. I was like, hey, Russ, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.400 could you come to this first meeting with me, just 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.880 the first one, please, and sit in the meeting and 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.640 start the meeting, you know, and then turn it over 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.840 to me, and then you you, for all they know, 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.680 you're my boss, and then you turn it over to me, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.320 and then I'll do the talking. So that way it 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.760 looks like it's both of us because they'll feel like 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:17.760 they're doing business with you, but they'll get the actual 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.800 information for me. So you don't have to study this stuff. 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:21.400 You don't have to feel back any layers. And I 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:22.960 was like, and I'll cut you in on, you know, 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:25.480 some of the money, you know, if we get this 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.840 taken care of. And Russ, of course, being the salesman 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:30.920 that he was, you know, he's an old sales guy 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.280 from radio, which is how I knew him. He says, yeah, absolutely, Man, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:35.960 I get what you're trying to do. I got you. 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.520 Just give me the cliffs notes and then we'll knock 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.920 it out of the park. And that's exactly what happened, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:48.240 and that relationship snowballed into other relationships where Russ would 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.680 be with me when I'm doing media buys, when I'm 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.280 sitting down with these logistics companies, I'm sitting down with 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.520 all kinds of companies. You know, Russ would be my guy, 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.680 that would be the white guy in the room to 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:12.040 make the other white guys feel like, perhaps if we 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.480 did business with this couple of people here, we would 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.720 get the results that we want. Whereas me, by myself, 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.920 I'm not sure that I would have had those same results. 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.560 I'd never had any results outside of us. And it 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:27.919 didn't matter how much I talked, or how as you 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:33.680 put it, well spoken, or what my education was. There 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:35.960 was a couple of things, not the least of which 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.359 is my skin. Remember I'm in Arizona. These middle aged 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.199 white men are oftentimes very right leaning, very conservative types, 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.440 who you know they come from a different time, and 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.119 you know they're not as familiar interacting with folks that 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:51.359 don't look like them. And I'm not trying to be 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.040 any kind of way, and I'm not trying to say anything. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.520 I'm just telling you my reality how similar it is 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.480 to this couple, and I want to read one more thing, 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.480 and I want to get your thoughts. Cute to add 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.560 to this, A long time ago, when I was maybe 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.720 seventeen years old, I worked at a Nissan dealership, right, 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.240 and I had to study all these cars Exterras and 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.879 Maximums and everything like that. I thought I was grown up. Man, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:20.919 I was seventeen. I had a grown up job. I 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.240 had to wear a suit, you know, to sell these cars. 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.840 And I just got a kick out of that. Man, 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.879 I'm a big fan of cars. So at this time, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:40.000 I read something that we got as like staff, as salespeople. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:45.120 I read something that suggested that Nissan was in trouble, 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:56.240 legal trouble for giving higher interest rates overall the sales 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.120 departments at the dealerships across the country, and the Nissan 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.800 financing company and all this sort of stuff. We're giving 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.200 higher interest rates to black people. Now, this was many 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.120 years ago. This is twenty some odd years ago when 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:13.120 this happened. So you know, this is how I remember it, 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.600 which might not be entirely accurate, but I do remember 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:20.240 that Nissan was charging more interest for black people overall. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.040 And it was a clear it was clear, like ones 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:28.360 and Zero's racism. You know, the same credit score, same situations. 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.720 You know, if you're comparing apples to apples, the blacker 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.000 you are the higher interest rate, right, And we needed 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.359 to know about that in case someone came in to 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.400 try to buy an Ultima or a CenTra or whatever, right, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.399 and we needed to know how to defend against that. 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:47.440 And there was me and there was another guy there 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:51.640 whose name is Sherman. He was also black, and we 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.959 had to like really sit with this, like, okay, so 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:58.520 they know this is happening, they acknowledge it, and then 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.119 now they're informing us on how to deal with the customer. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:04.800 They want us to be able to speak to it intelligently. 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.040 Yeah, isn't that crazy? So the reason I bring that 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:12.800 up is because not just this house, but and this 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:16.399 comes from the New York Daily News in twenty sixteen, Toyota, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.920 not Nissan. And this is many years later, right, Toyota 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.840 agreed to pay back twenty one point nine million dollars 0:20:25.240 --> 0:20:29.600 two thousands of African American and Asian borrowers when it 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:33.080 was determined that dealers routinely charge customers of color higher 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.119 interest rates than white customers with the same credit score 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.120 and income level. To be clear this wasn't an aberration 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.440 of some sort, but appears to be an industry standard. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:49.760 And now we have more substance to suggest that going 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:57.320 in to a meeting where finances are at stake, money 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:01.600 is at stake with black skin, that counts against you, right, 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:04.919 And we know not just in the United States, but 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:09.879 across the world things that are associated with poverty. We're 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.160 seeing textbook examples of why it's more difficult for black 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.760 folks to build wealth. You know, we could go all 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.119 the way back and discuss redlining. We could look at 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.560 right now and discuss the school to prison pipeline. We 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:22.760 could look at the war on drugs. We can look 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:24.920 at a number of things. But right now we're looking 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:27.520 this in the face, the ones and zeros, right, and 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:33.200 we know that crime and poor health, poor education, all 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:36.679 these things tend to follow the money line. You know, 0:21:36.760 --> 0:21:40.280 the poorer this people are, the more difficult of a 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.720 go that there is, and the more challenge the community is. Right, 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.879 So we're seeing these things here and not for nothing. 0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:48.840 I kind of applaud this couple. I think that's a 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:50.600 brilliant idea. Let's get some white folks in here so 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:51.919 that we can get a little bit more money out 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.280 of this house. Right. But the reason that I wanted 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.439 to share that with you, our listener, is because this 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.919 might not be something you might be aware of. You know, 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.080 in your world it's this this whole thing might be 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:09.000 black people versus the police, or maybe that's not your persuasion, 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.160 and you're like, black people can't get over slavery. Why 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:13.800 can't they just fix their own problems, you know, or 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.639 whatever the case is. You know, there's just some stories 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.440 that we need to tell, and this is the show 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.359 that we have, and we can tell these stories now. 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.960 I would love to get your reaction as well. Q. 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:27.200 What are your thoughts? We got about two and a 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.840 half minutes. My thoughts are going to be I'm glad 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:31.200 you said that. My thoughts are going to be much 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:35.840 shorter and much less eloquent than you might think. That's okay. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:39.280 We have to we have to come to terms with 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:45.760 things like that being brilliant and disgusting all at the 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:49.320 same time. Like we have to laugh at their brilliance, Like, yo, 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:52.760 you know played the game, you played it, Go ahead, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:23:00.280 But dude, do you know how like some some times 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:05.199 all we can do is laugh and smile as to 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:10.719 not burn the whole place down, Like we have to 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:15.040 just be like, man, goodness gracious. And you know, I 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:17.280 almost soar right there, so I had to go to 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.879 goodness gracious to keep from saying a curse word. We 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.679 have to really just be like man, wow, Like the 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:29.280 game really is set up for us to fail perpetually, 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.360 Like they don't want us to ever just be okay. 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.200 So don't let me stop you. But I want to 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.760 jump in right here. This is not the only thing. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:43.560 We're talking about cars and houses, and we're talking about money. 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:49.040 We're not even considering political opportunities. We're not considering employment opportunities, 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:50.679 which I guess is kind of tied to money, but 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:52.960