1 00:00:15,076 --> 00:00:24,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. Things like 2 00:00:24,556 --> 00:00:29,116 Speaker 1: solar panels are no longer some kind of fringe technology 3 00:00:29,276 --> 00:00:33,396 Speaker 1: that's like good for hippies and whatever. This is the 4 00:00:33,516 --> 00:00:38,036 Speaker 1: cheapest way to generate power around the world now, so 5 00:00:38,076 --> 00:00:40,996 Speaker 1: we understand the basics of climate change. You burn coal 6 00:00:41,076 --> 00:00:43,356 Speaker 1: and gas and oil. You put carbon into the air. 7 00:00:43,796 --> 00:00:46,316 Speaker 1: The molecular structure of that CEO two traps heat that 8 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:50,236 Speaker 1: would otherwise radiate back out into space. Things get hotter. 9 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:54,196 Speaker 1: Lots of tundra up in the far North will melt, 10 00:00:54,356 --> 00:00:57,116 Speaker 1: and when it does, it will release huge amounts of 11 00:00:57,156 --> 00:01:01,396 Speaker 1: carbon and methane into the atmosphere, accelerating this heating cycle. 12 00:01:01,996 --> 00:01:04,196 Speaker 1: And this isn't your fun in the sun. Let's take 13 00:01:04,236 --> 00:01:06,196 Speaker 1: a trip and get out of the cold type of heat. 14 00:01:06,876 --> 00:01:09,036 Speaker 1: This is the kind of murderous heat that humans can 15 00:01:09,156 --> 00:01:12,676 Speaker 1: not survive. And the changing climate has already begun to 16 00:01:12,676 --> 00:01:17,156 Speaker 1: affect our lives now with rampant wildfires in California or 17 00:01:17,196 --> 00:01:20,276 Speaker 1: the severe winter storms that cause the power crisis in Texas. 18 00:01:21,076 --> 00:01:25,276 Speaker 1: These problems are urgent to solve. We're past the point 19 00:01:25,556 --> 00:01:28,876 Speaker 1: where we can make the math work one tesla at 20 00:01:28,876 --> 00:01:32,476 Speaker 1: a time, One vegan dinner at a time. Bill mcibbon 21 00:01:32,516 --> 00:01:34,596 Speaker 1: is the founder of three fifty dot org, and he's 22 00:01:34,596 --> 00:01:37,916 Speaker 1: worked on fighting climate change since the nineteen eighties. And 23 00:01:38,076 --> 00:01:42,316 Speaker 1: since the nineteen eighties, communal concerns have grown louder and louder. 24 00:01:42,876 --> 00:01:46,876 Speaker 1: At first, it was just environmentalists and scientists piling up evidence, 25 00:01:47,276 --> 00:01:52,116 Speaker 1: but now action is critical. We're talking massive, dramatic action 26 00:01:52,716 --> 00:01:58,236 Speaker 1: and global collaboration. There's strong limits to how much change 27 00:01:58,276 --> 00:02:02,996 Speaker 1: we can accomplish through changes in individual behavior or habit. 28 00:02:03,836 --> 00:02:06,476 Speaker 1: Most of the problem is deep in the guts of 29 00:02:06,516 --> 00:02:10,276 Speaker 1: the system. So is climate change really solve given our 30 00:02:10,316 --> 00:02:14,076 Speaker 1: dependence on fossil fuels. I believe that our dependence on 31 00:02:14,116 --> 00:02:19,156 Speaker 1: fossil fuels is solvable, and I believe that we have 32 00:02:19,316 --> 00:02:22,036 Speaker 1: to solve it if we're to have a chance of 33 00:02:22,436 --> 00:02:31,236 Speaker 1: keeping civilizations intact over the course of this century. Bill, 34 00:02:31,316 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 1: I'm thirty seven, I'm unmarried with no kids. I'd love 35 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:37,236 Speaker 1: to get married and have kids within the next three years. 36 00:02:37,236 --> 00:02:40,276 Speaker 1: By the time i'm forty. I want you to imagine 37 00:02:40,436 --> 00:02:42,836 Speaker 1: my child and tell me what the world looks like 38 00:02:42,876 --> 00:02:46,316 Speaker 1: for them when they're thirty. So i'd be seventy and 39 00:02:46,396 --> 00:02:49,276 Speaker 1: they'd be thirty. If we continued on the path that 40 00:02:49,316 --> 00:02:52,956 Speaker 1: we're on. Okay, we've got two ways, one the bad 41 00:02:53,036 --> 00:02:55,716 Speaker 1: way and one the somewhat better way. Okay, I love it. 42 00:02:55,836 --> 00:02:59,396 Speaker 1: So if we continue on the path we're on, if 43 00:02:59,436 --> 00:03:03,916 Speaker 1: we just make a kind of slow transition to renewable energy, 44 00:03:03,956 --> 00:03:06,556 Speaker 1: if we don't have government pushing the pace, if we 45 00:03:06,556 --> 00:03:10,116 Speaker 1: don't treat it like a kind of war effort, then 46 00:03:10,556 --> 00:03:14,436 Speaker 1: the temperature is going to mount very rapidly, and by 47 00:03:14,796 --> 00:03:17,636 Speaker 1: twenty fifty will really be at a point, I think 48 00:03:17,756 --> 00:03:21,836 Speaker 1: where we're dealing with just such an endless onslaught of 49 00:03:22,236 --> 00:03:27,596 Speaker 1: disasters one after another, with just coming ever faster at us, 50 00:03:27,636 --> 00:03:33,076 Speaker 1: that no matter what your child has, what career they've 51 00:03:33,116 --> 00:03:36,876 Speaker 1: trained for, their jobs going to be emergency response because 52 00:03:36,916 --> 00:03:39,876 Speaker 1: that's what human beings are going to be doing. Well, 53 00:03:40,076 --> 00:03:42,956 Speaker 1: there's already parts of the world where we're getting there, 54 00:03:42,996 --> 00:03:46,236 Speaker 1: you know, where the cycle of storms and things has 55 00:03:46,276 --> 00:03:49,956 Speaker 1: gotten so big and things so fragile that it's that 56 00:03:50,356 --> 00:03:55,236 Speaker 1: life is getting very difficult. Just last fall, we had 57 00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:58,876 Speaker 1: the worst hurricane season in history, the most storms. The 58 00:03:58,956 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 1: last two storms crashed into Nicaragua, Honduras, Guatemala and did 59 00:04:04,476 --> 00:04:08,116 Speaker 1: unbelievable damage. They think the damage in Honduras was equivalent 60 00:04:08,156 --> 00:04:12,196 Speaker 1: to forty of their GDP. If that happens a few 61 00:04:12,276 --> 00:04:15,196 Speaker 1: years in a row, there's just no recovery, you know, 62 00:04:15,196 --> 00:04:19,516 Speaker 1: it's just too much overwhelms. So that's the bad scenario 63 00:04:19,596 --> 00:04:25,196 Speaker 1: when we don't take this seriously. The good scenario isn't fantastic. 64 00:04:25,956 --> 00:04:31,876 Speaker 1: You know, it still features a world that doesn't work 65 00:04:31,916 --> 00:04:35,956 Speaker 1: as well as the one we have now. But but 66 00:04:36,636 --> 00:04:40,236 Speaker 1: things are starting to stabilize. We've put up so much 67 00:04:40,276 --> 00:04:44,876 Speaker 1: renewable energy and we've shifted everything to electricity. So your 68 00:04:44,916 --> 00:04:48,436 Speaker 1: car runs on electricity. You don't have a gas stove 69 00:04:48,476 --> 00:04:51,236 Speaker 1: in your house. You have an electric induction cooktop, you 70 00:04:51,236 --> 00:04:54,236 Speaker 1: don't have a gas furnace. You've got an air source 71 00:04:54,316 --> 00:04:57,556 Speaker 1: heat pump that's running off electricity. Because electricity we can 72 00:04:57,676 --> 00:05:02,036 Speaker 1: produce cleanly. The job, remember, is to stop burning things, 73 00:05:02,636 --> 00:05:05,836 Speaker 1: stop burning coal and gas and oil. And the only 74 00:05:05,876 --> 00:05:09,836 Speaker 1: thing that burns is the sun ninety million miles away, 75 00:05:10,236 --> 00:05:12,996 Speaker 1: and that sends us solar energy, and it sends us 76 00:05:13,036 --> 00:05:17,036 Speaker 1: the differentials in temperature that create wind and hence wind power. 77 00:05:17,676 --> 00:05:23,996 Speaker 1: But that requires the next decade being an all outsprint. 78 00:05:24,636 --> 00:05:27,396 Speaker 1: This is a timed test you get to put down 79 00:05:27,396 --> 00:05:29,956 Speaker 1: your pencil at a certain point. It picture in your 80 00:05:29,996 --> 00:05:33,116 Speaker 1: mind the most average American working in nine to five, 81 00:05:33,676 --> 00:05:36,636 Speaker 1: maybe an hourly retail job, just somebody just worried about 82 00:05:36,636 --> 00:05:39,356 Speaker 1: their basic needs, food, shelter, taking care of their family, 83 00:05:39,796 --> 00:05:44,196 Speaker 1: and explain to them the climate challenges that we're having 84 00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:49,476 Speaker 1: right now. Well, the climate challenge in its largest sense 85 00:05:49,676 --> 00:05:52,036 Speaker 1: is if we don't get it right, we don't get 86 00:05:52,076 --> 00:05:55,956 Speaker 1: to have civilizations anymore. We're not talking your grandkids, we're 87 00:05:55,996 --> 00:06:01,836 Speaker 1: talking you, if you're a younger person. We're already seeing 88 00:06:01,996 --> 00:06:04,956 Speaker 1: the manifestations of that. If you live on the West 89 00:06:04,956 --> 00:06:08,036 Speaker 1: coast of the the United States, there were weeks last year 90 00:06:08,116 --> 00:06:11,156 Speaker 1: when the governor was telling you to go inside and 91 00:06:11,436 --> 00:06:14,476 Speaker 1: tape your windows shut because the air pollution from the 92 00:06:14,476 --> 00:06:18,196 Speaker 1: wildfires was so bad you couldn't safely breathe it. You know, 93 00:06:18,276 --> 00:06:22,236 Speaker 1: if you live in Texas, two years ago had the 94 00:06:22,276 --> 00:06:26,716 Speaker 1: biggest rainstorm in American history. There were parts of Houston 95 00:06:26,756 --> 00:06:30,076 Speaker 1: that got five feet of rain. Wow, that's just the 96 00:06:30,156 --> 00:06:33,556 Speaker 1: United States. And we're still at the early stages of this. 97 00:06:34,076 --> 00:06:36,796 Speaker 1: So knowing that climate change isn't reversible at this point, 98 00:06:36,836 --> 00:06:40,556 Speaker 1: that we can't solve that, I know that your specialization 99 00:06:40,756 --> 00:06:43,956 Speaker 1: is in reducing CEO two emissions. Would you say that 100 00:06:44,076 --> 00:06:46,356 Speaker 1: is what we should focus all of our attention on 101 00:06:46,436 --> 00:06:50,556 Speaker 1: that one aspect, trying to solve that. So the most 102 00:06:50,636 --> 00:06:57,356 Speaker 1: important job is over the next decade to replace coal 103 00:06:57,596 --> 00:07:02,356 Speaker 1: and gas and oil burning with renewable energy. First thing 104 00:07:02,396 --> 00:07:05,996 Speaker 1: to say is we have to do it fast. This 105 00:07:06,236 --> 00:07:10,756 Speaker 1: isn't like other political problems that we're used to dealing with. So, 106 00:07:10,876 --> 00:07:13,556 Speaker 1: for instance, as long as you and I have been 107 00:07:14,676 --> 00:07:17,916 Speaker 1: alive in this country, we've been arguing as a country 108 00:07:17,956 --> 00:07:21,396 Speaker 1: about medical care. Should we provide it to everybody? That's 109 00:07:21,436 --> 00:07:25,916 Speaker 1: been a contentious political issue. I think that it's a 110 00:07:25,956 --> 00:07:29,356 Speaker 1: great sin that we don't, and lots of people suffer 111 00:07:29,396 --> 00:07:33,196 Speaker 1: and die and go bankrupt. But when the day comes 112 00:07:33,276 --> 00:07:36,316 Speaker 1: that we decide to join all the other industrialized countries 113 00:07:36,356 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 1: in the world and making sure that everybody has medical care, 114 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:41,956 Speaker 1: the fact that we haven't done it for the last 115 00:07:42,036 --> 00:07:47,036 Speaker 1: thirty years won't make it harder to do. Climate change 116 00:07:47,276 --> 00:07:50,396 Speaker 1: isn't like that. It's the first problem humans have ever 117 00:07:50,516 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: faced that comes with a time limit. If we don't 118 00:07:53,596 --> 00:07:56,436 Speaker 1: solve it soon, we never solve it. Because we go 119 00:07:56,596 --> 00:08:01,636 Speaker 1: past tipping points. The temperature gets very much warmer than say, 120 00:08:02,276 --> 00:08:05,756 Speaker 1: lots of tundra up in the far North will melt, 121 00:08:05,876 --> 00:08:08,596 Speaker 1: and when it does, it will release huge amounts of 122 00:08:08,676 --> 00:08:12,956 Speaker 1: carbon and methane into the atmosphere, accelerating this heating cycle. 123 00:08:13,716 --> 00:08:18,596 Speaker 1: So the world scientists have told us now what the 124 00:08:18,716 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 1: deadline is. They have told us that if we want 125 00:08:22,636 --> 00:08:26,116 Speaker 1: to meet the temperature targets we set in Paris at 126 00:08:26,156 --> 00:08:30,316 Speaker 1: the Paris Climate Accords, holding temperature increases to one and 127 00:08:30,316 --> 00:08:35,156 Speaker 1: a half or two degrees, then we have until twenty thirty, 128 00:08:35,636 --> 00:08:39,476 Speaker 1: which is as we speak, eight and a half years away, 129 00:08:39,836 --> 00:08:44,596 Speaker 1: to cut our emissions in half. That's hard news to hear. 130 00:08:44,876 --> 00:08:49,236 Speaker 1: Here's the good news that comes with it. The engineers 131 00:08:49,236 --> 00:08:52,916 Speaker 1: have done a great job over the last ten years. 132 00:08:53,436 --> 00:08:57,036 Speaker 1: They've dropped the price of solar power and wind power 133 00:08:57,396 --> 00:09:01,676 Speaker 1: by ninety percent over that time. It's now across most 134 00:09:01,716 --> 00:09:05,356 Speaker 1: of the world the cheapest way to generate energy. So 135 00:09:05,396 --> 00:09:11,436 Speaker 1: it's no longer technically or economically impossible to imagine change 136 00:09:11,476 --> 00:09:16,516 Speaker 1: at that pace. It would just take a remarkable load 137 00:09:16,556 --> 00:09:19,556 Speaker 1: of work in order to get it done, and some 138 00:09:19,636 --> 00:09:22,716 Speaker 1: of that work is political, because you have to overcome 139 00:09:22,876 --> 00:09:27,556 Speaker 1: the opposition of vested interests, basically the oil industry. So 140 00:09:27,716 --> 00:09:30,796 Speaker 1: we understand that our political system, especially in the United States, 141 00:09:30,796 --> 00:09:34,196 Speaker 1: has been, you know, wildly swinging from left to right, 142 00:09:34,756 --> 00:09:37,876 Speaker 1: not really staying moderate, and definitely not being in locksed 143 00:09:37,916 --> 00:09:40,596 Speaker 1: up when it comes to issues like climate change and 144 00:09:40,716 --> 00:09:43,316 Speaker 1: knowing that we're going to have another election and things 145 00:09:43,316 --> 00:09:45,876 Speaker 1: are going to change at least two more times, possibly 146 00:09:45,876 --> 00:09:50,556 Speaker 1: two more times before twenty thirty. So is your solution 147 00:09:50,636 --> 00:09:52,476 Speaker 1: here saying that we just got to get in the streets, 148 00:09:52,516 --> 00:09:55,036 Speaker 1: we got to just apply pressure all the time, or 149 00:09:55,276 --> 00:09:58,916 Speaker 1: what does it look like to actually have the type 150 00:09:58,956 --> 00:10:01,436 Speaker 1: of political support we need to make the changes that 151 00:10:01,476 --> 00:10:03,276 Speaker 1: we need to make. First of all, this would be 152 00:10:03,356 --> 00:10:07,876 Speaker 1: frank here. If we elect another moron, then we get 153 00:10:07,916 --> 00:10:11,356 Speaker 1: what we deserve at a certain point. That's just what happens. 154 00:10:11,876 --> 00:10:15,356 Speaker 1: But the goal of activists in a question this big 155 00:10:16,076 --> 00:10:21,436 Speaker 1: is to, above all, to change the zeitgeist, to change 156 00:10:21,436 --> 00:10:25,996 Speaker 1: people's sense of what's normal and natural and obvious. Yes, 157 00:10:26,076 --> 00:10:29,276 Speaker 1: we fight pipelines, we fight for divestment, we fight for 158 00:10:29,316 --> 00:10:32,076 Speaker 1: all these things, and they're all important fights, but they 159 00:10:32,156 --> 00:10:35,636 Speaker 1: also all add up to that change in the zeitgeist. 160 00:10:35,636 --> 00:10:39,836 Speaker 1: And when we get that, then everything gets much easier. 161 00:10:39,956 --> 00:10:44,236 Speaker 1: So think about what happened with say, gay marriage. You know, 162 00:10:44,396 --> 00:10:47,916 Speaker 1: ten years ago, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were against 163 00:10:47,996 --> 00:10:51,316 Speaker 1: gay marriage because it didn't pull well, you know, But 164 00:10:51,476 --> 00:10:57,036 Speaker 1: then organizers did a fantastic job of getting people to 165 00:10:57,236 --> 00:11:00,516 Speaker 1: understand that, yeah, of course you should be allowed to 166 00:11:00,676 --> 00:11:03,356 Speaker 1: if you love somebody, marry them. Why wouldn't you, you know, 167 00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:08,116 Speaker 1: And they've changed the zeitgeist such that now, you know, 168 00:11:08,196 --> 00:11:11,756 Speaker 1: not even right wing Republicans really bother to fight it anymore, 169 00:11:11,756 --> 00:11:13,876 Speaker 1: because it's clearly that's what we're going to do now. 170 00:11:14,076 --> 00:11:18,316 Speaker 1: Climate change is no different, except that it's a little 171 00:11:18,396 --> 00:11:23,196 Speaker 1: harder because there were not huge companies making trillions of 172 00:11:23,236 --> 00:11:28,156 Speaker 1: dollars a year being bigots. There are companies making trillions 173 00:11:28,156 --> 00:11:31,596 Speaker 1: of dollars a year pedaling hydrocarbons. That change in the 174 00:11:31,716 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 1: zeitgeist is clearly coming. Even in America, the kind of 175 00:11:35,436 --> 00:11:39,396 Speaker 1: capital of climate denial. You saw it in the last election. 176 00:11:39,876 --> 00:11:43,516 Speaker 1: During the Democratic primaries, the number one issue or number 177 00:11:43,556 --> 00:11:47,356 Speaker 1: two issue depending on the poll for voters was climate change, 178 00:11:47,796 --> 00:11:52,476 Speaker 1: which is why Joe Biden was staking his ground on 179 00:11:52,556 --> 00:11:55,356 Speaker 1: climate change. He said, we have to transition off the 180 00:11:55,396 --> 00:11:58,596 Speaker 1: oil industry, and everybody said, oh, that's a gaff all. 181 00:11:58,596 --> 00:12:00,676 Speaker 1: The pundity are like, that's going to cost you, but 182 00:12:00,756 --> 00:12:04,316 Speaker 1: it didn't. He won the oil states that were in play, Pennsylvania, 183 00:12:04,396 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 1: New Mexico, and emerged with this mandate to do something. 184 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:11,036 Speaker 1: And so you're in the course of you know, Earth Day. 185 00:12:11,116 --> 00:12:15,516 Speaker 1: This year, we watched him assemble the world's leaders, you know, 186 00:12:15,636 --> 00:12:18,836 Speaker 1: forty of the world's chief leaders in a virtual summit. 187 00:12:19,156 --> 00:12:23,716 Speaker 1: We watched him pledge to cut America's emissions dramatically by 188 00:12:23,796 --> 00:12:28,316 Speaker 1: twenty thirty. We've seen him pledge to spend two trillion 189 00:12:28,316 --> 00:12:32,076 Speaker 1: dollars on this green infrastructure plan. Those are all signs 190 00:12:32,116 --> 00:12:35,596 Speaker 1: of what happens once you shift the zeitgeist. It only 191 00:12:35,636 --> 00:12:38,316 Speaker 1: works when people have done the work to make that 192 00:12:38,796 --> 00:12:43,036 Speaker 1: constituency exist. I think when you were talking about, for instance, 193 00:12:43,076 --> 00:12:45,276 Speaker 1: when you talk about gay marriage and you talk about 194 00:12:45,316 --> 00:12:48,916 Speaker 1: LGBT rights, there was really an effort of people to 195 00:12:48,956 --> 00:12:51,956 Speaker 1: put a face behind all of the people that wanted 196 00:12:51,996 --> 00:12:54,516 Speaker 1: those rights. And instead of making it about you know, 197 00:12:54,596 --> 00:12:57,676 Speaker 1: this amorphous LGBT person that's kind of like just out 198 00:12:57,676 --> 00:13:00,036 Speaker 1: of your line of sight, they made it about your cousin, 199 00:13:00,396 --> 00:13:04,596 Speaker 1: you know, your friend, you're somebody in your community. How 200 00:13:04,596 --> 00:13:06,836 Speaker 1: do we make it so that, like the freeze in 201 00:13:06,916 --> 00:13:10,636 Speaker 1: Texas is the face of climate Like, are we doing 202 00:13:10,796 --> 00:13:13,596 Speaker 1: enough to actually push that so that it is changing 203 00:13:13,636 --> 00:13:17,356 Speaker 1: the zeitgeist. Yeah, we're getting closer all the time to 204 00:13:17,516 --> 00:13:21,796 Speaker 1: people understanding how this affects them. And part of that 205 00:13:21,996 --> 00:13:26,116 Speaker 1: is that the environmental movement, the climate movement, is really 206 00:13:26,196 --> 00:13:30,196 Speaker 1: morphed into the climate justice movement, and people are understanding, 207 00:13:30,356 --> 00:13:34,196 Speaker 1: especially young people who have a stronger sense of justice, 208 00:13:34,636 --> 00:13:39,796 Speaker 1: are understanding how interrelated all this is. Think about twenty twenty. 209 00:13:40,396 --> 00:13:42,796 Speaker 1: You know, the most important thing anybody said in twenty 210 00:13:42,876 --> 00:13:46,196 Speaker 1: twenty was what George Floyd said is he was being murdered, 211 00:13:46,236 --> 00:13:50,996 Speaker 1: he said, I can't breathe because breathing is the I mean, 212 00:13:51,036 --> 00:13:54,796 Speaker 1: that's how we define whether you're alive or not. You know. Yeah, 213 00:13:55,396 --> 00:13:58,236 Speaker 1: people can't breathe because there's a racist cop kneeling on 214 00:13:58,276 --> 00:14:02,196 Speaker 1: their neck. But as activists were quickly pointing out, they 215 00:14:02,276 --> 00:14:05,396 Speaker 1: can't breathe too because there's a coal fired power plant 216 00:14:05,476 --> 00:14:08,396 Speaker 1: down the street and it's always the same street. You know. 217 00:14:09,196 --> 00:14:12,516 Speaker 1: Asthma rates are three times as high for African Americans 218 00:14:12,556 --> 00:14:15,156 Speaker 1: as they are for white Americans, not because there's some 219 00:14:15,316 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 1: difference in physiology just because of a difference in geography. 220 00:14:18,796 --> 00:14:23,636 Speaker 1: You know, people who people can't breathe because we watch 221 00:14:23,716 --> 00:14:26,796 Speaker 1: the temperature last year in California hit one hundred and 222 00:14:26,836 --> 00:14:30,236 Speaker 1: thirty degrees fahrenheit. That's at the edge of what the 223 00:14:30,396 --> 00:14:34,876 Speaker 1: human body can tolerate even for a few hours. But 224 00:14:35,076 --> 00:14:37,836 Speaker 1: the computer modeling makes it very clear that if we 225 00:14:37,876 --> 00:14:41,236 Speaker 1: don't get this under control, that's what the world is 226 00:14:41,276 --> 00:14:45,956 Speaker 1: going to be like for huge swaths of the Earth's surface, 227 00:14:46,036 --> 00:14:48,636 Speaker 1: all the tropics by the middle of the century, for 228 00:14:48,796 --> 00:14:52,116 Speaker 1: weeks on end. One of the problems with climate change, 229 00:14:52,196 --> 00:14:56,236 Speaker 1: of course, is that the worst damages are always in 230 00:14:56,276 --> 00:14:59,556 Speaker 1: the future, and so it requires a certain amount of 231 00:14:59,556 --> 00:15:04,556 Speaker 1: imagination in order to deal with them. Now, the actual 232 00:15:04,596 --> 00:15:08,516 Speaker 1: consequences are real enough that it gets easier and easier 233 00:15:08,556 --> 00:15:11,556 Speaker 1: for people, i think, to make that leap in their minds. 234 00:15:11,996 --> 00:15:13,956 Speaker 1: You know, with all the politics that are involved in 235 00:15:15,036 --> 00:15:18,676 Speaker 1: well in everyday life and even in life and death situations, 236 00:15:19,396 --> 00:15:22,196 Speaker 1: there's a lot of cynicism when it comes to what 237 00:15:22,276 --> 00:15:24,436 Speaker 1: the US political system is able to do, like the 238 00:15:24,516 --> 00:15:27,396 Speaker 1: legislative body is as in a lot of ways, been 239 00:15:27,396 --> 00:15:30,996 Speaker 1: rendered moot when it comes to actually passing viable laws 240 00:15:30,996 --> 00:15:34,596 Speaker 1: that could help eating in things like climate change. So 241 00:15:34,636 --> 00:15:36,076 Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of this is going to 242 00:15:36,116 --> 00:15:39,476 Speaker 1: be done through a lot of ways through executive action. 243 00:15:40,316 --> 00:15:42,716 Speaker 1: So is this about making the vote for president account 244 00:15:42,836 --> 00:15:47,436 Speaker 1: even more? Yeah, So let's hope that the president can 245 00:15:47,436 --> 00:15:50,436 Speaker 1: figure out how to get important stuff through Congress, because 246 00:15:50,556 --> 00:15:52,516 Speaker 1: you need Congress to spend money, and we're going to 247 00:15:52,596 --> 00:15:54,956 Speaker 1: have to spend some money. But there's a lot of 248 00:15:54,956 --> 00:15:57,836 Speaker 1: other things that are really important that are happening right now, 249 00:15:57,916 --> 00:16:01,596 Speaker 1: and maybe the most important is what's happening behind the 250 00:16:01,676 --> 00:16:05,236 Speaker 1: scenes at the Federal Reserve, the Treasury Department, and the 251 00:16:05,316 --> 00:16:09,396 Speaker 1: Securities and Exchange Commission. With any luck, by the time 252 00:16:09,676 --> 00:16:12,956 Speaker 1: the Biden administration is a couple of years old, every 253 00:16:12,956 --> 00:16:17,196 Speaker 1: company in America will have to be legally assessing every 254 00:16:17,276 --> 00:16:20,796 Speaker 1: year it's climate risk. You know how this world works, 255 00:16:21,196 --> 00:16:23,596 Speaker 1: Those things that you measure are the things that you 256 00:16:23,676 --> 00:16:26,676 Speaker 1: start to work on. And so if we get that going, 257 00:16:26,916 --> 00:16:31,516 Speaker 1: it'll be a huge change. The Federal Reserve and others 258 00:16:31,556 --> 00:16:35,956 Speaker 1: are working to try and rein in this absurd policy 259 00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:38,636 Speaker 1: of the banks handing over big sums of money to 260 00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:42,556 Speaker 1: the most dangerous industry on Earth. You know, so these 261 00:16:42,596 --> 00:16:46,756 Speaker 1: things are happening kind of behind the scenes in Washington 262 00:16:47,116 --> 00:16:50,436 Speaker 1: and in Wall Street, but they're extraordinarily important and they're 263 00:16:50,436 --> 00:16:52,836 Speaker 1: one of the things that movements are pushing very hard 264 00:16:52,876 --> 00:17:11,196 Speaker 1: to accomplish. Let's talk about divestment. What does that look like. 265 00:17:11,356 --> 00:17:15,036 Speaker 1: So this divestment campaign was completely modeled on the one 266 00:17:15,116 --> 00:17:18,916 Speaker 1: that activists built a generation ago to take on apartheid 267 00:17:18,956 --> 00:17:21,796 Speaker 1: in South Africa. And one of the first people we 268 00:17:21,876 --> 00:17:24,036 Speaker 1: reached out to when we thought about doing it with 269 00:17:24,156 --> 00:17:28,356 Speaker 1: fossil fuel was Desmond Tutu, the Anglican Archbishop of South Africa, 270 00:17:28,396 --> 00:17:30,316 Speaker 1: who'd been at the kind of head of that work, 271 00:17:30,316 --> 00:17:33,236 Speaker 1: and he said, please do it again, because climate change 272 00:17:33,556 --> 00:17:37,556 Speaker 1: is the human rights challenge of this moment. People started 273 00:17:37,596 --> 00:17:42,556 Speaker 1: asking colleges and universities, pension funds, on and on to 274 00:17:42,596 --> 00:17:48,076 Speaker 1: sell their stock in these fossil fuel companies, and by god, 275 00:17:48,636 --> 00:17:53,436 Speaker 1: a lot of them did. The most famous colleges on Earth, Oxford, Cambridge, 276 00:17:53,516 --> 00:17:58,036 Speaker 1: the University of California, the University of Michigan, the country 277 00:17:58,036 --> 00:18:02,036 Speaker 1: of Ireland, all its public accounts were divested from fossil fuel. 278 00:18:02,516 --> 00:18:05,196 Speaker 1: It's added up now to the point where it's putting 279 00:18:05,316 --> 00:18:09,516 Speaker 1: huge pressure on this industry. The Norwegian Sovereign Well Fund, 280 00:18:09,556 --> 00:18:12,276 Speaker 1: which is the single biggest pool of money on Earth 281 00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:15,396 Speaker 1: trillion dollars, most of it made from oil in the 282 00:18:15,436 --> 00:18:18,276 Speaker 1: North Sea. Over the last few decades, they said, Okay, 283 00:18:18,316 --> 00:18:22,076 Speaker 1: we're getting out of this. We're leaving this casino and 284 00:18:22,236 --> 00:18:25,996 Speaker 1: going somewhere else. Shell Oil set in its annual report 285 00:18:26,076 --> 00:18:29,716 Speaker 1: two years ago that divestment had become a material risk 286 00:18:29,756 --> 00:18:33,356 Speaker 1: to its business. If your exon at this point, your 287 00:18:33,396 --> 00:18:36,476 Speaker 1: only hope is to just keep your business model going 288 00:18:36,556 --> 00:18:39,636 Speaker 1: for a couple more decades and you get twenty more 289 00:18:39,716 --> 00:18:43,316 Speaker 1: years of profit out of it. But if they do, 290 00:18:44,316 --> 00:18:46,356 Speaker 1: if they're able to do that, then they're going to 291 00:18:46,396 --> 00:18:49,276 Speaker 1: break the planet in the process. So that's what the 292 00:18:49,356 --> 00:18:52,796 Speaker 1: race is about. Can we shut these guys down before 293 00:18:52,876 --> 00:18:55,796 Speaker 1: they shut everything down? So do you think that the 294 00:18:55,916 --> 00:19:00,316 Speaker 1: US is leading the charge or do you think there's 295 00:19:00,396 --> 00:19:04,276 Speaker 1: models from other nations that we could be learning from. 296 00:19:04,396 --> 00:19:09,276 Speaker 1: There are other nations that have provided real leadership. And 297 00:19:09,316 --> 00:19:11,916 Speaker 1: it's funny because they don't all come in places where 298 00:19:12,036 --> 00:19:14,516 Speaker 1: have a lot of sun and wind, but they're come 299 00:19:14,556 --> 00:19:18,836 Speaker 1: in places that have a lot of political will. Germany 300 00:19:18,996 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 1: is the place that provided the original early demand for 301 00:19:23,636 --> 00:19:28,276 Speaker 1: solar panels. They put together this big program called in 302 00:19:28,356 --> 00:19:33,076 Speaker 1: German the Energy Venda, that provided big subsidies for people 303 00:19:33,116 --> 00:19:35,636 Speaker 1: who would put solar panels on their roofs. If you 304 00:19:35,676 --> 00:19:37,796 Speaker 1: take a train through Germany and you look out the window, 305 00:19:37,836 --> 00:19:41,476 Speaker 1: you see solar panels everywhere. And that demand from Germany 306 00:19:41,996 --> 00:19:45,196 Speaker 1: was what allowed the Chinese manufacturers to get really good 307 00:19:45,196 --> 00:19:48,356 Speaker 1: at making this stuff cheap. So the Chinese have played 308 00:19:48,396 --> 00:19:50,996 Speaker 1: a huge role in the Chinese or rolling out renewable 309 00:19:51,116 --> 00:19:54,636 Speaker 1: energy faster than any place on the planet. So there 310 00:19:54,636 --> 00:19:58,836 Speaker 1: are countries around the world that in one way or another, 311 00:19:58,876 --> 00:20:02,236 Speaker 1: have started showing the way forward, and now we need 312 00:20:02,276 --> 00:20:06,676 Speaker 1: everybody catching up very fast. That's one of the problems 313 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:09,356 Speaker 1: with global warming. I mean they don't call it well 314 00:20:09,436 --> 00:20:13,196 Speaker 1: for nothing, you literally can't. I mean, you know, one 315 00:20:13,236 --> 00:20:15,956 Speaker 1: country could do absolutely everything right, and if everybody else 316 00:20:16,036 --> 00:20:19,316 Speaker 1: wasn't cooperating, it wouldn't help a bit. Let's think about 317 00:20:19,316 --> 00:20:22,836 Speaker 1: the pandemic when it first arrived. You know, there was 318 00:20:22,876 --> 00:20:24,676 Speaker 1: a lot of things people were talking about that had 319 00:20:24,756 --> 00:20:28,116 Speaker 1: changed in the world. Some people said that the oceans 320 00:20:28,116 --> 00:20:30,796 Speaker 1: were bluer, and you know, of course there was less traffic. 321 00:20:31,076 --> 00:20:33,556 Speaker 1: All of those like little little things. One thing they 322 00:20:33,596 --> 00:20:37,436 Speaker 1: talked about was the drop in emissions. We weren't moving, 323 00:20:37,556 --> 00:20:40,756 Speaker 1: there were no cars and planes going to many places, 324 00:20:41,196 --> 00:20:43,476 Speaker 1: and we weren't pumping a lot of pollution into the air. 325 00:20:43,836 --> 00:20:46,836 Speaker 1: But in May of twenty twenty, the concentration of carbon 326 00:20:46,876 --> 00:20:49,116 Speaker 1: dioxide in our atmosphere was at the highest had been 327 00:20:49,276 --> 00:20:54,276 Speaker 1: in human history. Was that emission statistic just a positive 328 00:20:54,356 --> 00:20:59,676 Speaker 1: spin on an awful situation, or was it significant in 329 00:20:59,796 --> 00:21:02,756 Speaker 1: some big picture way to the climate challenges that we're 330 00:21:02,756 --> 00:21:08,156 Speaker 1: facing now. The pandemic was extraordinarily interesting, learning opportunity and 331 00:21:08,276 --> 00:21:12,236 Speaker 1: lots of ways. One of the things that people noticed was, well, 332 00:21:14,236 --> 00:21:18,836 Speaker 1: everybody's changed their lifestyle. You far more than any environmentalist 333 00:21:18,876 --> 00:21:22,076 Speaker 1: ever would have dreamed of calling for. And it's true 334 00:21:22,556 --> 00:21:26,276 Speaker 1: that emissions went down some, but as it turns out, 335 00:21:26,636 --> 00:21:29,876 Speaker 1: not as much as you would have expected. At the peak. 336 00:21:29,956 --> 00:21:32,996 Speaker 1: We think that carbon dioxide emissions fell ten or twelve 337 00:21:33,076 --> 00:21:39,636 Speaker 1: percent worldwide. So what that means is that there's a 338 00:21:40,036 --> 00:21:44,156 Speaker 1: strong limits to how much change we can accomplish through 339 00:21:44,716 --> 00:21:49,356 Speaker 1: changes in individual behavior or habit. Most of the problem 340 00:21:49,596 --> 00:21:52,356 Speaker 1: is deep in the guts of the system, and so 341 00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:55,316 Speaker 1: one has to go into the guts of the system 342 00:21:55,316 --> 00:21:57,636 Speaker 1: and pull out the coal and oil and gas and 343 00:21:57,756 --> 00:22:01,636 Speaker 1: put in the sun and wind and efficiency and conservation, 344 00:22:01,996 --> 00:22:07,236 Speaker 1: and that's at hard a political and economic task. So really, 345 00:22:07,276 --> 00:22:11,196 Speaker 1: I think the pandemic demonstrate to some of the limits 346 00:22:11,236 --> 00:22:16,956 Speaker 1: of individual behavior. Human solidarity really matters. It's not some 347 00:22:17,116 --> 00:22:22,756 Speaker 1: ephemeral thing. It's core to the solutions here. I've lived 348 00:22:22,756 --> 00:22:25,476 Speaker 1: most of my life in the political shadow of Ronald Reagan, 349 00:22:25,516 --> 00:22:28,036 Speaker 1: who really changed the way we think about the world. 350 00:22:28,516 --> 00:22:31,876 Speaker 1: Told us that markets were going to solve all problems, 351 00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:35,356 Speaker 1: that we should just concentrate on getting rich. His famous 352 00:22:35,476 --> 00:22:39,676 Speaker 1: laugh line and all his speeches was the nine scariest 353 00:22:39,716 --> 00:22:42,756 Speaker 1: words in the English language are I'm from the government 354 00:22:42,756 --> 00:22:46,316 Speaker 1: and I'm here to help. Ha ha ha. It turns 355 00:22:46,316 --> 00:22:49,236 Speaker 1: out the scariest words in the English language are either 356 00:22:49,916 --> 00:22:53,996 Speaker 1: we've run out of ventilators or the hillside behind your 357 00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:57,836 Speaker 1: house just caught on fire. Preach it now, and neither 358 00:22:57,876 --> 00:23:00,356 Speaker 1: one of those you're going to solve by you know, 359 00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:03,636 Speaker 1: every somebody getting rich. Those you solve when you work 360 00:23:03,756 --> 00:23:09,236 Speaker 1: together to deal with problems. And hopefully the pandemic has 361 00:23:09,276 --> 00:23:11,996 Speaker 1: at least begun to remind us that we're going to 362 00:23:12,076 --> 00:23:15,716 Speaker 1: have to work together, because that's the prerequisite for doing 363 00:23:15,756 --> 00:23:17,716 Speaker 1: what we have to do to deal with a crisis 364 00:23:17,756 --> 00:23:20,516 Speaker 1: that's far worse than the pandemic would ever have been. 365 00:23:21,716 --> 00:23:24,756 Speaker 1: Hearing you say that is a little tricky for me 366 00:23:25,436 --> 00:23:30,556 Speaker 1: because on the one hand, I'm recognizing what you're saying 367 00:23:30,556 --> 00:23:34,396 Speaker 1: about individual action only doing so much. But with that 368 00:23:34,476 --> 00:23:38,116 Speaker 1: being said, how do we prevent individuals from feeling helpless? 369 00:23:38,636 --> 00:23:40,516 Speaker 1: Because when you say that to be as an individual, 370 00:23:40,556 --> 00:23:42,596 Speaker 1: the first thing I think is like, well, don't need 371 00:23:42,636 --> 00:23:45,076 Speaker 1: to recycle these bottles anymore, just throw them in the air, 372 00:23:45,596 --> 00:23:48,676 Speaker 1: like so, so, how do you keep me engaged as 373 00:23:48,676 --> 00:23:51,996 Speaker 1: an individual in the fight? The hardest part of the 374 00:23:51,996 --> 00:23:56,476 Speaker 1: climate fight has always been that sense of agency, because 375 00:23:56,556 --> 00:24:00,076 Speaker 1: it's so big and we seem so small in comparison 376 00:24:00,156 --> 00:24:02,716 Speaker 1: to it, that it's hard for us to imagine that 377 00:24:02,796 --> 00:24:06,116 Speaker 1: anything we do as individuals is going to make much difference. 378 00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:12,076 Speaker 1: And truthfully, there's a point there. I mean, the roof 379 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:15,036 Speaker 1: of my house is covered with solar panels. They're connected 380 00:24:15,076 --> 00:24:19,236 Speaker 1: to an electric car. I'm very proud of that in 381 00:24:19,276 --> 00:24:21,996 Speaker 1: some way, but I don't try to fool myself that 382 00:24:22,276 --> 00:24:26,116 Speaker 1: it's how we're going to really deal with this. We're 383 00:24:26,156 --> 00:24:29,196 Speaker 1: past the point where we can make the math work, 384 00:24:29,636 --> 00:24:33,196 Speaker 1: one tesla at a time, one vegan dinner at a time. 385 00:24:33,956 --> 00:24:37,476 Speaker 1: Those things are important, but they're not if we have 386 00:24:37,596 --> 00:24:40,436 Speaker 1: ten years now eight and a half years to make 387 00:24:40,556 --> 00:24:43,796 Speaker 1: wholesale change. We know that it's going to have to 388 00:24:43,836 --> 00:24:48,396 Speaker 1: come by making big political shifts. So the really sad 389 00:24:48,436 --> 00:24:51,196 Speaker 1: thing is when I wrote The End of Nature in 390 00:24:51,276 --> 00:24:54,556 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, we knew most of what we know 391 00:24:54,676 --> 00:24:58,196 Speaker 1: now about climate change. It's not like anything really has 392 00:24:58,236 --> 00:25:01,996 Speaker 1: shifted all that much. You burn coal and gas and oil, 393 00:25:02,116 --> 00:25:05,876 Speaker 1: you put carbon into the air. The molecular structure of 394 00:25:05,916 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 1: that co two traps heat that would otherwise radiate back 395 00:25:09,196 --> 00:25:13,956 Speaker 1: out to space. And really the subsequent three decades have 396 00:25:14,156 --> 00:25:17,876 Speaker 1: followed the path that scientists said they would, And it 397 00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:21,076 Speaker 1: should come as no surprise to anyone that we've lost 398 00:25:21,116 --> 00:25:23,916 Speaker 1: half the sea ice in the Arctic, or that we're 399 00:25:23,916 --> 00:25:29,476 Speaker 1: seeing huge increases in storms and fires and things. The 400 00:25:29,556 --> 00:25:34,436 Speaker 1: one thing that has changed over time is my kind 401 00:25:34,436 --> 00:25:38,156 Speaker 1: of political understanding of the problem. And it took me 402 00:25:38,236 --> 00:25:41,596 Speaker 1: too long to figure out that we weren't. We'd won 403 00:25:41,636 --> 00:25:45,676 Speaker 1: the argument, I mean, the science was completely clear and robust. 404 00:25:46,756 --> 00:25:49,716 Speaker 1: We were just losing the fight because the fight wasn't 405 00:25:49,756 --> 00:25:52,956 Speaker 1: about data and reason and evidence. The fight was what 406 00:25:53,036 --> 00:25:57,196 Speaker 1: fights are always about, money and power. And the fossil 407 00:25:57,236 --> 00:26:00,596 Speaker 1: fuel industry had so much money, it was the biggest 408 00:26:00,596 --> 00:26:03,996 Speaker 1: industry on earth, that it had enough political power to 409 00:26:04,076 --> 00:26:07,436 Speaker 1: keep us from doing what we needed to do. And 410 00:26:07,596 --> 00:26:09,796 Speaker 1: so that's when I became more of an activist and 411 00:26:09,836 --> 00:26:12,156 Speaker 1: started trying to build movements so that we could have 412 00:26:12,196 --> 00:26:23,116 Speaker 1: some power too. So there's people that are listening to 413 00:26:23,156 --> 00:26:25,876 Speaker 1: this that are probably you know Chom. We got the 414 00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:28,516 Speaker 1: bit to saying like, well, what can I do? Can 415 00:26:28,556 --> 00:26:32,836 Speaker 1: you give us some viable actions that listeners can do, Like, 416 00:26:32,996 --> 00:26:36,236 Speaker 1: right now, what can we be doing? You know? The 417 00:26:36,316 --> 00:26:39,876 Speaker 1: first thing you should do is organize, get everybody together. 418 00:26:40,236 --> 00:26:42,556 Speaker 1: Second thing you should do is get together with your 419 00:26:43,156 --> 00:26:46,396 Speaker 1: friends and neighbors and organize. You know. The third thing 420 00:26:46,436 --> 00:26:49,036 Speaker 1: you should do is make sure that your community as 421 00:26:49,076 --> 00:26:53,556 Speaker 1: well organized to try and take on this. That's what 422 00:26:53,596 --> 00:26:55,876 Speaker 1: we have to do. If you've got some time left 423 00:26:55,916 --> 00:26:59,636 Speaker 1: over after that, then yeah, eating lower on the food chain, 424 00:26:59,756 --> 00:27:02,116 Speaker 1: or putting in the right light bulb, or next time 425 00:27:02,156 --> 00:27:04,636 Speaker 1: you buy a car making sure that it's electric or thing. 426 00:27:04,876 --> 00:27:08,796 Speaker 1: Those are easy. The hard thing for Americans because we're 427 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:13,876 Speaker 1: so individuals. The hard thing is joining together in movements 428 00:27:13,916 --> 00:27:17,596 Speaker 1: to make change happen. But that's what's required, and the 429 00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:20,116 Speaker 1: good news is that's now not that hard to do 430 00:27:20,236 --> 00:27:23,956 Speaker 1: because there are movements everywhere. There's three fifty dot org, 431 00:27:23,996 --> 00:27:26,716 Speaker 1: which I helped start it as chapters everywhere. There's the 432 00:27:26,796 --> 00:27:30,356 Speaker 1: Sunrise Movement for people under thirty. They're the ones who 433 00:27:30,396 --> 00:27:34,916 Speaker 1: brought you the Green New Deal. There's for kids, younger kids. 434 00:27:34,956 --> 00:27:38,956 Speaker 1: There's this Climate strike Fridays for the Future Movement. There's 435 00:27:39,316 --> 00:27:42,756 Speaker 1: Extinction Rebellion. There are the big environmental groups that are 436 00:27:42,756 --> 00:27:46,196 Speaker 1: all doing good work. All these things are adding up, 437 00:27:46,636 --> 00:27:49,356 Speaker 1: and you can find one to plug in and make 438 00:27:49,476 --> 00:27:52,156 Speaker 1: yourself count. But I guess the way to say it 439 00:27:52,236 --> 00:27:56,636 Speaker 1: is individually, we're not going to get where we need 440 00:27:56,676 --> 00:27:59,076 Speaker 1: to go. So your job is to figure out how 441 00:27:59,116 --> 00:28:02,716 Speaker 1: to get some leverage here, how to make your actions 442 00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:06,636 Speaker 1: count for five, ten, twenty times more than they would 443 00:28:06,636 --> 00:28:14,476 Speaker 1: if you were just acting alone. Bill McKibbin is an author, educator, environmentalist, 444 00:28:14,516 --> 00:28:16,996 Speaker 1: and the founder of three fifty dot org. To learn 445 00:28:16,996 --> 00:28:19,596 Speaker 1: more about three fifty and the other organizations that he mentioned, 446 00:28:19,876 --> 00:28:22,756 Speaker 1: check out the links in our show notes next week 447 00:28:22,756 --> 00:28:25,316 Speaker 1: on Solvable of talking with the musician and software developer 448 00:28:25,316 --> 00:28:28,756 Speaker 1: who's working to decolonize electronic music. Wondering what that even 449 00:28:28,796 --> 00:28:31,276 Speaker 1: sounds like. Be sure to subscribe and join us for 450 00:28:31,316 --> 00:28:36,476 Speaker 1: that conversation. Solvable Senior producer is Jocelyn Frank, Research by 451 00:28:36,556 --> 00:28:40,436 Speaker 1: David Jah, Booking by Lisa Dutton. Sasha Matthias is our 452 00:28:40,476 --> 00:28:44,436 Speaker 1: managing producer, and our executive producer is Mia LaBelle. And 453 00:28:44,596 --> 00:28:48,276 Speaker 1: special thanks to Sophie mckibbon. Solvable as a production of 454 00:28:48,316 --> 00:28:51,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 455 00:28:51,996 --> 00:28:54,516 Speaker 1: and review it. It really helps us get the word out. 456 00:28:55,276 --> 00:28:58,716 Speaker 1: You can find Pushkin Podcasts wherever you listen, including on 457 00:28:58,756 --> 00:29:03,076 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app and Apple Podcasts. I'm Ronald Young Jr. 458 00:29:03,556 --> 00:29:11,436 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.