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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host Mark Kenyan. In this episode number two eight

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Speaker 1: two in today we are chatting with author Brad Staalberg

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Speaker 1: about his studies into peak performance, the power and potential

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Speaker 1: downsides of passion, and how all of this can make

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Speaker 1: you a better hunter. All right, welcome to another episode

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Speaker 1: of the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by

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Speaker 1: Onyx and today, I want to start by telling you

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Speaker 1: a story. When I was three or four years old,

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Speaker 1: I remember that first time I headed into the woods

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Speaker 1: with my dad for a deer hunt. We didn't see

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Speaker 1: anything at all, but I do remember it was something

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Speaker 1: that I almost right away fell love with. And as

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Speaker 1: the years rolled by and I continue to go up

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Speaker 1: to deer Camp, I just became more and more infatuated

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Speaker 1: with the experience. I remember these truck rides headed up north,

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Speaker 1: sitting in the backseat listening to my grandpa and my

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Speaker 1: uncle's and dad debate current events. I remember getting to

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Speaker 1: deer Camp and at night, after we turned off the

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Speaker 1: lanterns here in the crackle of the fireplace in the cabin,

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Speaker 1: and then the next morning, those long walks through the

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Speaker 1: swamp out to our blind, looking around, and then finally

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Speaker 1: you get to your blind, you're sitting down in that

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Speaker 1: quiet stillness of snow falling over the forest landscape, and

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Speaker 1: then that rush of excitement when you see that first deer.

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Speaker 1: That experience just captivated me, and my love for that

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Speaker 1: continued to grow over the years. You know, it was

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Speaker 1: eight or nine years old. I remember getting on the

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Speaker 1: bus after school and just being like, Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: tomorrow's November. We're going hunting. I cannot wait. And then

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Speaker 1: I remember being in high school and reading deer hunting

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Speaker 1: magazines in the back of class while people are talking

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Speaker 1: about math. This love of the experience just grew and

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Speaker 1: grew and grew, and eventually a new layer developed for

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Speaker 1: me within my relationship with hunting, and which now is

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Speaker 1: forming this this new intense drive to learn more about

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Speaker 1: hunting and to get tangibly better at it. And now,

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Speaker 1: for a whole lot of years, and still to this day,

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Speaker 1: I've spent an inordinate amount of my life working towards

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Speaker 1: those goals. You know, hunting has shifted from just something

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Speaker 1: fun to do, just an exciting experience, is shifted from

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Speaker 1: that to now a pursuit that I'm always working towards

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Speaker 1: has grown into almost almost a mission of sorts. It's

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Speaker 1: it's the thing that my life revolves around in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways. And I think it's it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: natural thing for a lot of people when they find

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Speaker 1: an activity they're passionate about, especially something like hunting that's

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Speaker 1: that's so deep and so involved and so rewarding. It's

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Speaker 1: powerful to have something like this that you can constantly

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Speaker 1: be challenged by and constantly work towards. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a drive inside of a lot of us to to

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Speaker 1: work towards some challenge or some goal like that's an

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Speaker 1: innate human thing, um, and it's it's I think it's

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Speaker 1: awesome to have something that in your life, this kind

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Speaker 1: of this kind of purpose, this kind of anchor. I

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Speaker 1: guess it's like an anchoring pursuit that drives me. It's

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Speaker 1: a big part of why I love hunting so much.

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Speaker 1: So you certainly don't need to have this kind of

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Speaker 1: relationship with hunting. There's nothing wrong with just going out

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Speaker 1: there on occasion having some fun. I know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot to enjoy about hunting when experience just as a

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Speaker 1: casual pastime, and I'm glad there's people out there who

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Speaker 1: engage in it in just that way. But for some

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Speaker 1: of us, it's it's more than that, and it's this

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Speaker 1: pursuit of excellence that really fascinates me. And that's that's

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Speaker 1: why I've been doing this podcast for so many years now,

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Speaker 1: That's why I've been studying the best hunters in the

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Speaker 1: world over the last decade, and that's why recently here

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, I've been kind of unofficially kicking off

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Speaker 1: this series of sorts in which I've been trying to

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Speaker 1: explore lessons learned from high performers outside of the hunting

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Speaker 1: world to see what can be applied into our world

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Speaker 1: in pursuit of hunting. So you probably heard an episode

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Speaker 1: two eight as Dan and I discussed what I've recently

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Speaker 1: been learning about the power of habits. And in episode

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Speaker 1: one we discussed training and mental toughness and a whole

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Speaker 1: lot more with the Olympic gold medal winning free skier

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Speaker 1: and bow hunter David Wise. And now today I want

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Speaker 1: to continue that discussion with Brad Stahlberg, a calumnist for

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Speaker 1: Outside magazine and the author of several books related to

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Speaker 1: this topic, the first of which is titled Peak Performance,

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Speaker 1: Elevate your Game, Avoid burnout, and thrive with a New

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Speaker 1: Science of Success. And this book and the first Person

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Speaker 1: the first portion of my chat with Brad today is

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Speaker 1: all about what he's learned in his studies of the

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Speaker 1: best of the best across the world and the science

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Speaker 1: being done to understand these high performers, whether that be

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Speaker 1: athletes or artists or businessmen and so so we look

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Speaker 1: at all that and how all these kinds of concepts

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Speaker 1: and skills can be translated to our pursuit of hunting.

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Speaker 1: So this goes back to that mission, that that passion,

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Speaker 1: that drive that I have and I know that many

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Speaker 1: of you have, which is how can I become the

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Speaker 1: very best version of myself and as a hunter. So

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Speaker 1: that's part one of our conversation. But the flip side

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Speaker 1: of this coin the other side of having this deep

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Speaker 1: drive and this passion for hunting or passion for anything, really,

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Speaker 1: the flip side to that is the potential negative effects

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Speaker 1: that are obsession and are all consuming drive can lead to.

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Speaker 1: You know, passion can be a very powerful thing for good.

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Speaker 1: But it can also be a powerful negative force too,

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Speaker 1: resulting in burnout, results in ruined marriages, or lost friendships,

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Speaker 1: or depression, all sorts of other bad kinds of outcomes.

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Speaker 1: And that's where Brad's second book comes into play, titled

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Speaker 1: The Passion Paradox, A Guide to going all in, finding

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Speaker 1: success and discovering the benefits of an unbalanced life. So

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Speaker 1: in this book and in the second portion of our chat,

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Speaker 1: we dive into this power of passion and how it

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Speaker 1: can be harnessed for good, and how if it's uncontrolled,

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Speaker 1: how it can lead to some disastrous things in your life.

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Speaker 1: And if you're at all like me and have the

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Speaker 1: same kind of passion dry for hunting as I do,

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Speaker 1: I I just know you're gonna be able to relate

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Speaker 1: to this stuff. I mean, how many times in the

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Speaker 1: podcast have we talked about this? How many times have

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Speaker 1: you thought about this? Probably you know, has my passion

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Speaker 1: gone too far? How do I balance my love of

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Speaker 1: hunting with family or with work or other obligations. So

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of stuff we talked about today. How

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Speaker 1: do you tell when your passion is disastrous? How do

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Speaker 1: you achieve balance? Should you try to achieve balance. How

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Speaker 1: can you channel your passion in a controlled, positive way,

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Speaker 1: but how can you also have enough self awareness to

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Speaker 1: know when to pull out of it when you're going

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Speaker 1: too far. That's where we're gonna end our conversation today,

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Speaker 1: and I think these are some of the most important

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Speaker 1: ideas maybe that we've ever discussed on the Wire Dune podcast.

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Speaker 1: Um So, I'm just I'm just so excited for you

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Speaker 1: to listen to this one. It's very different than our

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Speaker 1: usual episodes, that's for sure. But as you'll hear about soon,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's value in putting yourself in new situations

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Speaker 1: or pushing yourself to try new things, to to stress

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Speaker 1: yourself because these challenges, these new ideas, these new experiences

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Speaker 1: they are would lead to growth. And I think conversations

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Speaker 1: like this are there exactly at least for me, what

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Speaker 1: I believe can help myself and all of us grow

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Speaker 1: as hunters and as people. And that is a pretty

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Speaker 1: exciting thing. And now let's get to our conversation with Brad.

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Speaker 1: All right with me now on the line is Brad Stallberg.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Brad, Hey, Mark, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for having me. Really looking forward to uh to this

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Speaker 1: conversation with me too. It's it's a little bit um

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Speaker 1: different than our usual chats we have on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: But I've been kicking off this series over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks where we're trying to exam m in

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Speaker 1: and learn about different practices and ideas that are helping

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Speaker 1: peak performers across all sorts of different fields and finding

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Speaker 1: how they can be applied to what what I do

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Speaker 1: and what my community does, which is hunt and participate

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Speaker 1: in all these different outdoor activities. And when I ran

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Speaker 1: across your most recent book and then another that you

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Speaker 1: wrote a little while back, I just had this great

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Speaker 1: big flashing lights that are like, hey, you gotta get

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Speaker 1: ahold of Brad. You've gotta figure out some way to

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Speaker 1: have him on the show to share what he's learned. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really excited and happy that I was able

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Speaker 1: to do that. So thanks for being so responsive via email. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's um, let's roll. I'm looking forward to learning from you,

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Speaker 1: which I'm sure i'll do throughout this conversation. So so,

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Speaker 1: in addition to you're writing for Outside magazine and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, I know you're into the outdoors, but it

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Speaker 1: seems like you have this passion for studying high performers,

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Speaker 1: studying how people get stuff done, how they can reach

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Speaker 1: their their potential. And you wrote two books, the first

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Speaker 1: being or co wrote, I shouldn't say, Peak Performance, the

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Speaker 1: most recent being The Passion Paradox. My first question is

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Speaker 1: is why did you write these books? Why these topics?

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Speaker 1: And then why you Why were you the person to

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Speaker 1: dive into these so um, yeah, those are good questions,

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Speaker 1: and I'll answer them in order. Uh. So, so why

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Speaker 1: these books? So? The first book, which is called Peak Performance,

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Speaker 1: uh came to be because I had experienced a fair

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Speaker 1: bit of burnout early on in my career. I left

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Speaker 1: graduate school and went to a pretty illustrious international consulting

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Speaker 1: firm where very quickly I was doing um, pretty serious

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Speaker 1: work in the boardroom with sea level people at age four,

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Speaker 1: and I absolutely love the work, but I couldn't turn

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Speaker 1: it off. Uh So, for about six to nine months,

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Speaker 1: I performed really well. I was quite happy, and then

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Speaker 1: about a year year and a half into that gig,

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Speaker 1: I just started feeling extremely burnt out. Uh. Physically, I

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Speaker 1: didn't feel well. Psychologically, I was kind of apathetic to

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Speaker 1: the work. Uh, and I didn't know what I was

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Speaker 1: experiencing at the time, but in hindsight, I learned that,

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Speaker 1: you know, those are telltale signs of burnout UM which

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Speaker 1: doesn't always happen just from working too many hours, but

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Speaker 1: it's often when you're going about your work the wrong way.

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Speaker 1: And another misconception about burnout that I learned later on

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Speaker 1: is burnout doesn't mean you dislike what you're doing. It

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Speaker 1: often happens when you love what you're doing so much

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Speaker 1: that you lose the ability to turn it off. So

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Speaker 1: after that experience, UM, I started to get pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: interested in what went wrong, and I also became fascinated by, well,

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Speaker 1: how do people sustain that level of performance and that

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Speaker 1: level of drive without burning out? UM? So I did

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of just self exploration and self study.

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Speaker 1: I also went back to graduate school and studied public health,

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Speaker 1: and I was particularly interested in in well being. And

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Speaker 1: I started to notice this really interesting trend, which is

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Speaker 1: that so many of the principles that apply to athletes

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Speaker 1: also apply in the corporate world. And what applies in

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Speaker 1: the corporate world also applies to creatives an artist, let's say.

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Speaker 1: And there was so much work done on this topic

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Speaker 1: of performance, but it was all very siloed. So there

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Speaker 1: might be a book about performance in sport, or performance

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Speaker 1: in business, or performance in hunting or performance in triathlon,

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Speaker 1: but none of these different fields were talking to each other.

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Speaker 1: And when I stepped back and I took a broad

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Speaker 1: view across fields, I noticed all these patterns. And it's

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Speaker 1: a very scientific thinker. If you see patterns, you can

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Speaker 1: become more likely that the excuse me, you can become

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Speaker 1: more sure that something is true. So I started to

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Speaker 1: see these patterns pointing to the truth of what it

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Speaker 1: takes to be a peak performer, showing up in all fields.

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Speaker 1: Granted they were talked about a little bit differently, but

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Speaker 1: they're saying more or less the same things. And I

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Speaker 1: became fascinated by this notion of, well, what if there

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Speaker 1: are a few underlying principles of performance that cut across

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Speaker 1: all fields and all domains, and if you can identify those,

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Speaker 1: we can be pretty confident that they're actually true and

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Speaker 1: that they'll hold up in that the work and then

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Speaker 1: the second book, and finished the first book, my first

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Speaker 1: book with a major publishing house, had sent it into

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Speaker 1: the editor uh and heard back from the editor that

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Speaker 1: he was running behind, and I had set aside about

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Speaker 1: two weeks to go through edits um instead of kind

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Speaker 1: of celebrating the fact that the manuscript was accepted and

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Speaker 1: I was going to have this book and and the

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Speaker 1: editor said that all looked well. I did that for

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Speaker 1: about a half an hour, and then I got really antsy,

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Speaker 1: and I started thinking, well, what am I going to

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Speaker 1: do next? And then I stepped back and I said, well,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, why can't I just be content? Like

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Speaker 1: where does this drive come from? And is this drive

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Speaker 1: a good thing? And is the bad thing? And is

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Speaker 1: it both? And and I realized that I have a

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Speaker 1: pretty obsessive personality. Um can also be called passionate. Passionate

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Speaker 1: has a much more positive connotation. But I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: wired to just keep on pushing, and when I want

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Speaker 1: to go for something, I want to go all in.

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Speaker 1: And at times that can work out really well for me,

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Speaker 1: but at other times it can lead to all sorts

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Speaker 1: of problems. So I became fascinated by the idea of passion.

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Speaker 1: And much like the first book, I'd assume that someone

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Speaker 1: had explored passion. But what I learned is that outside

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Speaker 1: of the kind of cliche, trite self help books, you know,

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Speaker 1: Find your Passion, Follow your Passion um, which I'm sure

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Speaker 1: we'll get into most of that's just bullshit, but um,

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Speaker 1: no one had really done a good deep dive on

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Speaker 1: passion UM. So much like the first book, I kind

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Speaker 1: of did it to help myself because these are issues

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Speaker 1: that I work through and I still work through UM.

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Speaker 1: And I tried to figure it out on the page.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out that thousands and thousands of readers

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Speaker 1: are going through the same stuff now to to come

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Speaker 1: to the conclusions that you guys did eventually in these books.

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Speaker 1: You and your co author Steve Magnus, did you guys

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Speaker 1: just sit at a coffee shop and and BS and

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Speaker 1: and say, hey, I think it's a B and C

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Speaker 1: are the are the keys to peak performance? And I

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Speaker 1: think that this thing, this thing and this thing are

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Speaker 1: what are going to lead us to understand passion or

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Speaker 1: you know, help me understand, help folks understand. How you

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Speaker 1: research this how you I know you dove into a

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Speaker 1: lot of the science and the findings and that was

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Speaker 1: really fascinating. Yeah. So it's it's it's funny that the

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Speaker 1: thing I'm probably most proud of with both these books

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Speaker 1: is a lot of the books that are in this

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Speaker 1: performance genre are what I like to call bro science,

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Speaker 1: in in bro science is not real science. Bro science

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Speaker 1: is these are ten hacks that are going to make

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Speaker 1: you superman or superwoman, or you know, drink this magical

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Speaker 1: tea and suddenly you're going to be a better hunter.

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Speaker 1: All that stuff is crap. It sells, but it's not true.

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Speaker 1: It's not based on any real evidence. So my co

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Speaker 1: author and I were you know, we both have very

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Speaker 1: scientific minds and we want to write a very different

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Speaker 1: kind of book. So we spent for each book over

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Speaker 1: a year looking at all the various areas of research,

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Speaker 1: so that included psychology, physiology, biology, anthropology, We looked at

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Speaker 1: the life sciences, we looked at creative sciences, and again

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Speaker 1: our goal was to try to identify patterns that came

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Speaker 1: up everywhere. And then in addition to looking at the science,

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Speaker 1: we interviewed hundreds of performers in the in in the

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Speaker 1: same diverse fields. So we talked to world class artists,

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Speaker 1: world class outdoorsmen, world class adventure athletes, world class business people, entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 1: and much like we did with the research, we weren't

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Speaker 1: so much interested in the anecdotes that each individual told

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Speaker 1: as so much and trying to identify these common themes

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Speaker 1: and patterns, and in both books where we wind up

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Speaker 1: are on these few core patterns, these few core insights

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Speaker 1: that again came up in all different areas of research

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Speaker 1: and also in all different areas of practice, which leads

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Speaker 1: me to think that they are most likely true. And

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Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. And it's it's interesting

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Speaker 1: even within the microcosm of of our little community, the

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Speaker 1: however many fifteen million hunters or whatever it is out there.

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Speaker 1: As I've gone through my years of studying high performance

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Speaker 1: within our community, you see, you know, there's there's ump team,

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Speaker 1: different million ways to you know, to skin the cat right,

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Speaker 1: to to actually fill a hunting license and have success

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Speaker 1: in the field. But there are always these core truths

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Speaker 1: that that seemed to be consistent across those best of

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Speaker 1: the best. You know, there's gonna be those those different

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Speaker 1: little tweaks here and there, but at the base level,

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Speaker 1: it's well, they're always doing this kind of thing, or

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Speaker 1: they have these practices, or they have these routines, or

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Speaker 1: they have this certain kind of mindset um. And I

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Speaker 1: think as I study this both within the hunting world

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Speaker 1: and outside of it. There's a lot of overlap there

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Speaker 1: um and one of the things, and and there's in

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Speaker 1: in in and you know, it's interesting because, like I

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Speaker 1: was saying earlier, like I'm not a hunter, So your

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Speaker 1: audience might be like, well, what's this brad guy gonna

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Speaker 1: tell me about a sport that he doesn't participate in?

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Speaker 1: And what I would say is nothing, Like, I'm not

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Speaker 1: an expert in hunting. I'm an expert on these principles.

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Speaker 1: And I think it is so powerful to actually get

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Speaker 1: outside of your small little microcosm and see what other

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Speaker 1: people are doing, because that's where true breakthrough happens, is

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Speaker 1: when you can realize that, hey, there's this thing that

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Speaker 1: works everywhere, well, yeah, it's gonna work in hunting because performances,

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Speaker 1: performance ash and is passion, whether you're in a boardroom,

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Speaker 1: whether you're hunting, whether you're on the start line of

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Speaker 1: a marathon. Like, beneath all the noise and all the

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Speaker 1: sales people trying to sell you hacks, there are these

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Speaker 1: timeless principles that if you stick to, you will make

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Speaker 1: you better at whatever you do. Uh, And That's what

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested and me too, and I feel like

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Speaker 1: we're a little bit like just um self critiquing our

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Speaker 1: little community a little bit. We we are a little

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Speaker 1: bit insular. Sometimes I think we're not. We're sometimes in

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Speaker 1: an echo chamber, I guess, And probably each different little

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Speaker 1: community out there of this type of athlete and this

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Speaker 1: kind of business person, this kind of artist, like everyone

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Speaker 1: kind of lives within their own worlds, especially today with

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Speaker 1: how social media is and all of our very customized media.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can kind of fine tune what you

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Speaker 1: want to hear in the perspectives you want to hear,

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Speaker 1: but it's really easy to just hear from people just

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Speaker 1: like you. And all the new ideas you ever get

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Speaker 1: are just from people just like you and people doing

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Speaker 1: just the exact same thing as you. And that maybe

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Speaker 1: feels good in the short term because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of amen, but I think it's not a recipe for growth,

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Speaker 1: um which is why I'm particularly interested in hearing from you,

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Speaker 1: because I think you do bring these different perspectives for us,

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Speaker 1: and and I guess on that topic of growth, one

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Speaker 1: of the first principles in your book peak performance, that

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Speaker 1: you guys identified as one of these core consistent truths

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Speaker 1: across high performers. Was this, uh, this concept you guys

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Speaker 1: called the growth equation? Can you describe what what that is?

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Speaker 1: How that applies to peak performance? Because I think taking

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Speaker 1: one step back before I let your own with that

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Speaker 1: one of the top goals of most people within our

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Speaker 1: world of hunting, like everyone's trying to and anything, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but trying to figure out how to grow, how to

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Speaker 1: get better. This is like any kind of hunting, whether

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Speaker 1: you're hunting elk in the mountains or deer in the Midwest. Um,

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Speaker 1: it can be very physically demanding, it's very mentally demanding,

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Speaker 1: and more and more you get into it, the greater

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Speaker 1: the challenge can become. You can find a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways to just dive wholeheartedly into this thing, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people kind of find of lives and maybe

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Speaker 1: originally they just wanted to find a way to put

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Speaker 1: some meat on the table and eventually find oh wow,

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Speaker 1: it's this whole consuming lifestyle that you can really dive really,

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Speaker 1: really really deep into, and so people end up just

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Speaker 1: just I mean I've used the word before, it consumed

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Speaker 1: with it. How do I grow? How do I get

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Speaker 1: better in this? How do I learn more? How can

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Speaker 1: I improve my chances? So there's there's a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of interest in these how to or how to improve.

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Speaker 1: So I think though this growth equation kind of a

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Speaker 1: really good starting point for people to think about that process. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure, this is this is one of the favorite

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Speaker 1: principle post that I've uncovered. Um, So you're right. We

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Speaker 1: call it the growth equation, and the growth equation is

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Speaker 1: stress plus rest equals growth. And this is universal to

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Speaker 1: all pursuits. So I'll start by explaining it in terms

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Speaker 1: of how you make a muscle bigger, because I think

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Speaker 1: that that's the easiest way to understand the concept, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll spill over into how this would apply to hunting,

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Speaker 1: or at least how I think it. So, if you're

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Speaker 1: in the weight room and you want to grow your

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Speaker 1: biceps muscle, the muscle in your upper arm, you pick

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Speaker 1: up way too heavy of weight and you try to

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Speaker 1: curl it, and two things are gonna happen. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: injure yourself. You're gonna throw out your back, or you're

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Speaker 1: gonna not even be able to pick it up, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna say, screw this, I can't do this. I'm

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Speaker 1: done If you go to the weight room and you

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Speaker 1: pick up a one pound weight, you could sit there

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Speaker 1: and curl it all day and nothing's gonna happen. So

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Speaker 1: the first part about making a muscle bigger is you

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Speaker 1: have to find the right dose of stress the right weight. Now,

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Speaker 1: even if you find that right weight, if you sit

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Speaker 1: there and curl all day, every day without resting in between,

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Speaker 1: eventually your muscle is physically gonna fatigue. It's gonna physically

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Speaker 1: burn out. So what you have to do is you

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Speaker 1: have to stress the muscle at the right dose, the

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Speaker 1: right weight, and then allow it to rest and recover.

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Speaker 1: And it's actually during the rest and recovery period that

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Speaker 1: the muscle gets stronger, not during the work, but during

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Speaker 1: the recovery. And then when the muscle gets stronger, you

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Speaker 1: can stress it a little bit more again at the

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Speaker 1: right dose, allow it to rest and recover, and then

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Speaker 1: you get growth. So very easy to understand in a

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Speaker 1: weight room and very easy to modulate the stress level.

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Speaker 1: Right you go from a twenty pound weight to a

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Speaker 1: twenty five pound weight to a thirty pound weight. It's

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Speaker 1: a little bit harder out in the real world, but

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Speaker 1: that same principle applies. So when you take on a challenge,

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Speaker 1: you want to get just outside of your comfort zone.

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Speaker 1: If you take on too big of a challenge, too

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Speaker 1: big of a stressor you're going to be overwhelmed with anxiety.

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Speaker 1: That's not going to lead to growth. But if you

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Speaker 1: stay complacent and comfortable and just go through the same

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Speaker 1: emotions that you've always done, you're also not going to grow.

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Speaker 1: So you've got to figure out what's the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: picking up that weight that really pushes you almost to

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Speaker 1: the point of failure, but not so hard that you're

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Speaker 1: going to get injured, and not so hard that you're

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Speaker 1: never going to be able to do it. And then

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Speaker 1: after you take on those challenges, you've got to allow

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Speaker 1: for rest, recovery, and reflection, because if you're just constantly

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Speaker 1: pushing ahead, physically, you're gonna fatigue, and psychologically you're not

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Speaker 1: going to give yourself the space to actually learn from

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00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: the experiences that you've had. So a trap that a

432
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 1: lot of type A driven pushers fall into, and I

433
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: don't care if you're a hunter or runner or a

434
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: corporate executive, is you just want to go, go, go,

435
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: go go. So we're really good at the stress part

436
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 1: of the equation, but we often neglect the rest part.

437
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 1: And what happens is, again, physically, we can work ourselves

438
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 1: into fatigue and perform suboptimally, and just as important, mentally,

439
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 1: we skimp out on the reflection. So we're not actually

440
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 1: learning as much as we could because we're so focused

441
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: on immediately going to the next thing. Um So, not

442
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: only does this apply to performance pursuits, but it also

443
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: applies to relationships. Um whether it's a friendship or romantic relationship.

444
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 1: The way a relationship deepens is you face a challenge together.

445
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: You have to step back after that challenge, reflect, rest, recover,

446
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: and then you grow out of it stronger. But if

447
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 1: you take on way too many challenges in a relationship

448
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: or too great of challenges too soon, the relationship falls apart.

449
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: And if you never have that time to rest and

450
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: reflect same thing, the relationship falls apart. But if you're

451
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: constantly challenging yourself together allowing that space to recover and

452
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: reflect been the relationship strengthens. Um So again, this is

453
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: this is quite a universal equation. Uh, you've got to

454
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: stress the system, challenge it in a way that's the

455
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: appropriate dose, not too much but not too little and

456
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,360
Speaker 1: then make sure that you build in a little time

457
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: to rest and recover to grow, and then you can

458
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 1: take on a greater challenge. Yeah, that that makes a

459
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: lot of sense. And it's something that that I've always

460
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 1: tried to try to do in certain ways within within

461
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: most things I do. But I feel like in the

462
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,479
Speaker 1: hunting world, one way that I've always tried to do

463
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: this one way to kind of apply stress to what

464
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: I do is by forcing myself into new situations. So

465
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: it's really easy, um to just hunt in the same

466
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: place all the time, or just to use the same

467
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: basic strategy of what you're gonna do, how you're gonna

468
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: do it, when you're gonna do it. Like, there's definitely

469
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,679
Speaker 1: a trend out there where people kind of find the

470
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: one thing that works for them and they just do that.

471
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But maybe you had

472
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 1: that one great experience doing we'll just say strategy A,

473
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: and if it works at one time, then you kind

474
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,399
Speaker 1: of live off the glory of that memory for ten years,

475
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 1: twenty years, and then people kind of, you know, the

476
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 1: common definition and saying to do the same thing over

477
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: and over and regardless of results. Sometimes people fall into

478
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: that rut. I've always tried to force myself out of

479
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: that by going to this new state, going to this

480
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 1: new piece of public land, trying this completely off the

481
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: wall idea, just because it might not work the first time,

482
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: but I guarantee him going to learn something from it

483
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: and grow from it. So I think that's probably a

484
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: good example of the stress part of your equation, right,

485
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: just putting yourself in a brand new situation and seeing

486
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: what can come of it, right, Yeah, that's a big

487
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: part of it, um for sure. I think the other

488
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: thing that is a helpful framework to think about this

489
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: is if you look at yourself today as a hunter,

490
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 1: and then you look at where do you want to

491
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 1: be five years from now, what's the goal, what's the endpoint?

492
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: And then you just step back and you ask yourself, well,

493
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: what's the next logical step to get there? That's a

494
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: pretty accurate way of figuring out what's the next challenge,

495
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: what's the next stressor you want to take on. This

496
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 1: is something we talked about last week with a guy

497
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: named David Wise. He's a gold medal winning free skier,

498
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: and he talked about how he has some really specific

499
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: ways of setting goals to kind of achieve something like

500
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: you just described. Um, throughout your research for either one

501
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: of these books, did you kind of uncover anything around

502
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: that goal setting process? Um, that might be helpful for people?

503
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, totally the biggest thing. And this is

504
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: definitely a topic that came up in the Passion book,

505
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: and these books are interrelated. But but with Passion, uh,

506
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm assuming if you're thinking about hunting and stress

507
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: plus rest equals growth and you want to get better,

508
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: you're probably pretty passionate about this pursuit. And what can

509
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: happen in a passionate pursue is you can become so

510
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: focused on achieving the end goal that you make yourself crazy.

511
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: And there are often things that you can't control that

512
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: might affect that end goal. So in hunting, it could

513
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: be things like whether it could be who else is

514
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: out there that day, um, whole number of factors. So, well,

515
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: it's good to set goals, it's really important to focus

516
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: on the process that's going to give you the best

517
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: chance to achieve that goal and judge yourself on the

518
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: process because you you don't have full control of outcomes,

519
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: but you have control of the process. So again, you know,

520
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: I don't know hunting well, but I know traathlon. So

521
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: if I'm gonna traathlon race, I might want to run,

522
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: uh do a sub five bike, get the hundred twelve

523
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: mile bike right done under five hours. If I measure

524
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: myself just on that goal and it thunderstorms that day,

525
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna go slower, or if it's really windy,

526
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: same thing, and then I'm gonna be piste off and

527
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: achieve the goal. If I set up a process, I'm

528
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: gonna take care of my nutrition, I'm going to ride

529
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: at the right power. I'm going to make sure that

530
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: I that I stay in the aerodynamic position. Then I

531
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: can really like control all those things and as a result,

532
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: judge myself based on those things. Um And if you're

533
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: in it for the long haul to make long term progress,

534
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: I'm a big, big believer in focusing more on the

535
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 1: process than the outcome, because again, outcomes are so often

536
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: influenced by things outside of our control, and they can

537
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 1: create emotional roller coasters of ups and downs, whereas the

538
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: process is always in your control. UM. So set those goals,

539
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: but then figure out what are the processed steps that

540
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: you can control, and then nail those steps. And judge

541
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: yourself on those steps. So the goal might be to

542
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 1: you know, rain in an elk that is x pounds

543
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: bigger than previous but there are a lot of factors

544
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: that are going to control whether or not you can

545
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: do that. So what you need to do is figure out, well,

546
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: then what are the processed steps it's going to give

547
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: you the best chance, and then you go out and

548
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: you repeat that process over and over again. So so

549
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: this makes like I totally understand this, and I always

550
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 1: tell myself this each fall I'm out there, and I'm

551
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: always trying to remember to enjoy the journey, to enjoy

552
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: the process, to not get too hung up on the

553
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,360
Speaker 1: end outcome because all those things you just said are

554
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: one true, so many things outside of your control that

555
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: can lead to those high highs and very very low lows.

556
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: But it's always one of those concepts, at least for me,

557
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: is so much easier said than done totally, So how

558
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: do you is there any way to actually make a

559
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: practice of that? I mean, like when you describe, like

560
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: think about the different steps in the process, would it

561
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: be helpful to actually write them down? Yeah? Yeah them

562
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: write them down? And uh, you know, immerse yourself in

563
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: a community. Um, whether those are those are partners that

564
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: you go out hunting with or just you know, you're

565
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: the hunting community. However, you would define that as an

566
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: individual listener and hold each other accountable on those process measures. Uh.

567
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: And if someone starts to get like really upset about

568
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: missing an outcome, then remind yourself that, hey, like I

569
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: nailed the process and you should feel good about that. Now.

570
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: If you keep on nailing the process and you're still

571
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: not achieving your outcome, then that probably tells you that

572
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: you ought to change the process. But I I keep

573
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: on coming back to what are the things that you

574
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: can control? Rite those things down, nail those over and

575
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: over and over again, and give it at least I

576
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: don't know, eight or ten times of nailing that before

577
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: you start changing things. Because such a common trap is

578
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: people have an outcome goal, they go after it, they

579
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: don't get it because of some external factor, and then

580
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: they change their process, and then you get into this

581
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: loop where you're constantly changing your process and you're never

582
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: really refining it to the point that it's actually gonna work. Yeah,

583
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 1: I get that. I imagine Another way to think of

584
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: it is like think of yourself as a crafts person.

585
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: I love that analogy, right, Like a crafts person they

586
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: come into the shop every day, they pound the stone,

587
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: they show up, they do the work. It's not always easy,

588
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: doesn't always lead to the result that they want, but

589
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: they hone their craft over months and years. Um, there's

590
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: not a lot of wild roller coaster ride in the

591
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: mindset of a craftsperson. Yeah, yeah, I like that, And

592
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: I think you know, when it comes to writing those

593
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: things down, it's it's almost like all those processed steps

594
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: are all the little um like another way to look

595
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: at as someone. I can't remember where I was reading this,

596
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: but just you've got your big high level objectives. And

597
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: then even even in my previous life, my old job,

598
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: we used to have these things called okay ours, And

599
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: I was talking about this couple weeks ago. We had

600
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 1: we had to set these objectives which are like your

601
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: big high picture, your high level goals, and then you

602
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: had to have these key results, which in many cases

603
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: were specific micro goals and metrics that you could look

604
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: at and say, Okay, my big picture goal was to

605
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: increase sales by or whatever it might be, and then

606
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: I was going to achieve that by doing a B

607
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: and C, which was going to have so many more

608
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: calls with my with my client's gonna have so many

609
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 1: more Um, I don't know what it would have been

610
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: back in that day, but all these different specific, quantifiable steps,

611
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: and I feel like within our world, the hunting world,

612
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, maybe your goal is to get your first

613
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: elk this year, to get your first buck. Um, it's

614
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: really easy to have that goal. But then what are

615
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: the three or four steps along the way that you

616
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: can keep track of that you can quantify and that

617
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: would lead you to that goal. So maybe it would

618
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: be step one would be I'm going to scout ten

619
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: new properties this year. Maybe step two is going to

620
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: be I'm going to practice with my bow weekly to

621
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: make sure I'm as accurate as I possibly can be.

622
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: Step number three is gonna be I'm gonna plan on

623
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: spending a minimum of four weekends this year out in

624
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: the field trying to accomplish that goal. Um, I'm thinking

625
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: those kinds of things are ways to quantify that, yes,

626
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm doing the things along the way that would lead

627
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: to that goal. Is that totally and if you and

628
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: if you're confident in that process, then you can trust

629
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: it like you trust your training, you trust the process.

630
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: Over time, it's like the outcome takes care of itself.

631
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: So it's this really um ironic uh and kind of

632
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: like paradoxical thing is that the more that you're focused

633
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: on an end goal of a less likely you are

634
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: to achieve it. The more that you're focused on the process,

635
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: the more likely the angle just takes care of it.

636
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: And it's almost it's almost probably because you're freeing yourself

637
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: of a certain amount of pressure. That is that a

638
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: totally yep, because you're not You're not going out there

639
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: with this with this weight on your shoulder that Oh,

640
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: if I don't get you know, if I don't get

641
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: the kill, what are I co Like what are my

642
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: friends going to think of me? Or am I a failure?

643
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 1: Or I've spent all this time away from my family

644
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: and I still can't get it. Like that's that's a

645
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: lot of weight on your shoulders again, especially because like

646
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the weather might be shitty that day. I don't know, maybe,

647
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: I mean again, I don't know much about hunting, but

648
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: like where I hike, there are a lot of deer,

649
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: but they're also mountain lions, and mountain lions are out

650
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: that day, there aren't gonna be out. So like, there's

651
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: all these things that you can't control, but what you

652
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: can't control is that process. And there have been so

653
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: many times in my life where I've fallen shore on

654
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: an outcome, but I've nailed the process and I've really

655
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: and it's hard. Again, it's easier to say than to do,

656
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: but I've held myself to the process. I've had friends

657
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: helped hold me to the process. Um, and then you

658
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: just pick it back up and you start executing on

659
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: your process again. So so on the topic of the

660
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: process a little bit and going back to the growth

661
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: equation and how this all kind of comes together. The

662
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: second part, Like we've talked a little how to apply

663
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: stress to your to your usual stuff, So try some

664
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: new things, maybe go new places, add new challenges. But

665
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: the second part of the equation is the rest or

666
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: reflection time. And I'm wondering if you can help us

667
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: understand a little bit of what that might look like. Um,

668
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's literal ways that we could insert

669
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: rest into our training regiment. Maybe we are physically trying

670
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: to train for a back country hunt where we're gonna

671
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: be hiking in fifteen miles into the mountains, and Canna

672
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: have to hike out fifteen more miles and we're gonna

673
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: gain ten thousand feet of elevation, We're gonna be packing

674
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: out two hundred pounds of meat. That kind of thing,

675
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: like training for that kind of physical activity. It's really

676
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: easy to understand how I'm gonna stress myself, and then

677
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: adding maybe it's rest days or rest weeks or things

678
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: like that. But I think the trickier one is where

679
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: we are trying to when we're talking more like the

680
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: conceptual level or like the mental side of things, where

681
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn from hunting experiences. And then one

682
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: of the big things that happens last times when we're

683
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: out there hunting is stuff goes wrong. Just like you said,

684
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things out of your control. Also,

685
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: you make a lot of mistakes out there. So I

686
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: find myself so many times something goes wrong, I blow

687
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 1: an opportunity, or all this work went into this outcome,

688
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: then the last second, something goes wrong, and then always

689
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: say something and we all say that, well, you know,

690
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn from that. But many times I feel

691
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: like we say we're gonna learn from that, and then

692
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: we just then go on with our daily lives, just

693
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: go on. And I don't know if we ever actually

694
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: do learn from that in any or at least I

695
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: don't have a practice for really reflecting on it. So

696
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: this is my long rambling way of trying to say,

697
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: did you find anything as far as a practice or

698
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: an idea of how we can better mentally reflect or

699
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: mentally rest after a challenge a stress, and how do

700
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: we grow in that kind of way? Does that make sense? Yeah?

701
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: I think that you. I think that you have to

702
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: you have to realize what you just said and be

703
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: aware of the propensity to just immediately move on to

704
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: the next thing and expect you to feel that way

705
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: and then know that it's coming and still choose to

706
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: not just move on and set aside some time. Uh.

707
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 1: And then this can be really simple, this can be

708
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: These are the things that went well that I want

709
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: to repeat, These are the things that didn't go well

710
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: that I want to change. And here's what I like

711
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: to I use the word habit energy, which is just

712
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: like that, the energy of habit. And here's all the

713
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: habit energies that are going to get in the way

714
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: of me making those changes, and just being aware of

715
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: the resistance that you're going to face helps you face

716
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: it so much better because then when it comes, you

717
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: can say, oh, high habit energy, like, I know you're

718
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, make me do things the old way,

719
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: but even though you're here, I'm gonna go do the

720
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: new things. And this often comes up with fear. Fears

721
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: a really strong habit energy. And it's not just visceral

722
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: fear of one's life, but it could be fear of

723
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: messing up, uh, fear of fear of you know, getting

724
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: out of your comfort zone, doing something the wrong way.

725
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: So oftentimes what will happen is people people will be

726
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: reflecting in the they'll realize that the real reason that

727
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: they did something wrong is because they had fear, and

728
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: they could have acted differently in the midst of fear,

729
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 1: but they didn't. So then the practice is next time

730
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: when fear happens, not to resist it, but just to

731
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: realize it acknowledged that, oh, fear is here, and I'm

732
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: still going to go ahead and do this thing that

733
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: my rational brain knows gives me the better chance of

734
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 1: accomplishing what I want to. So it's it's really about

735
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: being able to step outside of yourself a little bit

736
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: and identify what's going on inside your head this little

737
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: I think you've referred to as self distancing a little bit.

738
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: Will that be kind of what we're talking about here? Yeah, exactly.

739
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: It's to get outside of get outside of the ongoing

740
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: chatter in your head some of those fears, be able

741
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: to see them from a little bit more of a

742
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: broader perspective, uh, and in and create some space between

743
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 1: that ongoing narrative and then your ability to make a

744
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 1: wise decision amidst it. And I think reflection is really

745
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: helpful it doing. Speaking of decision making and dealing with

746
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: stress and things like that, there's a lot of really

747
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: high pressure situations in in a hunt, a lot of

748
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: different things that might be going on where there's a

749
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 1: lot resting on the next decision you make. It might

750
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: be a physical thing, it might be just making a

751
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: shot which is as high pressure and intense of the

752
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: situation as there is out there, or simply a fork

753
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,759
Speaker 1: in the road where I need to do A or

754
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: B and I need to make that decision right now,

755
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: and if I make the wrong decision, ten months worth

756
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: of worker's shot. Um I I remember reading a bit

757
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: about some of the things you guys have learned about

758
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: the importance of mindset and and and attitude and things

759
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: like that, and how that can help with some of

760
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: these things. Is there anything you can speak to on

761
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: that front. So I think I think a big I

762
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: think a big thing is that, well, there's two In

763
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: high pressure situations, a lot of people call that emotion

764
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: being nervous or anxious, and then they freak out about

765
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: the fact that they're nervous or anxious, which just makes

766
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: it worse. The research shows, as well as interviews with

767
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 1: great performers, that better than that is to actually let

768
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 1: yourself feel that physiological or cousl instead of labeling anxiety

769
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: or nervousness, label excitement and tell yourself the story that

770
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: oh ship like it's go time. Like my heart rate

771
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: is up, my body temperatures up, I've got butterflies in

772
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: my stomach. That's not a problem. That is that is

773
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: thousands of years of evolution preparing my body to be

774
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: a on it For this situation, I'm gonna go crush,

775
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: which is so different than I need to take thirty

776
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: mindful breaths. I need to try to calm down How

777
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: am I nervous in this situation? Why do I always

778
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: get anxious? Um? Because our body, like our mind body system,

779
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: is a lot smarter than our brain. Right. We try

780
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: to force these mindsets on ourselves, but the body knows

781
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: really well. In the minute we call something anxiety, it

782
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: takes on a negative connotation and it's gonna mess with us.

783
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: But if we don't give it that label, and we

784
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: just say, WHOA, I'm aroused, you can actually channel that. Uh.

785
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: Free solo climbers do a really good job of this,

786
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: all the free solo climbers that I've gotten to speak to,

787
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: and including guys like Alex Hanald so I'm talking to

788
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: like the best to have ever live. He told me

789
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: that he feels tons of fear. He doesn't not feel fear.

790
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: The difference is when he feels fear, he doesn't freak

791
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: out about it and try to make it go away

792
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: or calm down. He he, he names it and he says,

793
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 1: this is my body getting ready to go. Because when

794
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: we're in a state of arousal or fear, our perceptions

795
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: are actually more heightened than ever. I mean, I can

796
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: tell you there have been two times in my life

797
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: when I've never been more alive, and when when when

798
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: my perceptions have been the highest, And that's when I

799
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: found myself ten and twenty ft from a mountain, lion

800
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: and a bear, respectively. And it was scary, for sure,

801
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: but my vision was crystal clear. Time slowed down, uh,

802
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 1: and I didn't I didn't say, oh, I'm freaking out.

803
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: I was just in the moment. Boom, You have no choice.

804
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 1: I think the problem is when you're on a hunt,

805
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,400
Speaker 1: maybe you have a little bit more time, even if

806
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: it's just a few seconds, and then your mind starts

807
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: thinking and starts saying, oh, you're feeling nervous. This is

808
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: a problem. So it's really about trying to get your

809
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 1: mind out of the way and just going, yeah, that's

810
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: that's one of the greatest you know, speaking of of

811
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: of climbers, right, you talk about the crux of a route,

812
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: I feel like the crux of many hunts is that

813
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: final minutes. Sometimes it can be minutes, or it might

814
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: be seconds when you have to have to make that

815
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: shot and yeah, that exact scenario you just described, where Okay,

816
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: this thing is happening, and then you start your heartbeat

817
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: starts increasing, and you start sweating, you get nervous, maybe

818
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: start shaking. Um. In in the hunting world, people will

819
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: refer to this as buck fever, and it's this kind

820
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: of dreaded thing that happens to almost everybody where you

821
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: kind of have a physical and sometimes mental breakdown as

822
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 1: you prepare for this, this final culmination of everything that's

823
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,439
Speaker 1: been happening in the previous months. And um and yeah,

824
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: I feel like the conventional wisdom and recommendation is too deeper.

825
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: Take deep breath, to steady, calm down, act like it's normal.

826
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: Um And And if you've practiced doing that, like if

827
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: you've gone on silent meditation retreat and you've trained yourself

828
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: to do that, then that's a great strategy. But the

829
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: thing is most people haven't trained themselves to do that.

830
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: And if you haven't trained yourself to do that, what

831
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: ends up happening is you try to force yourself to

832
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: calm down, and you don't calm down because it's really

833
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: freaking hard to calm down in those situations. And now

834
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: not only are you nervous, but you're nervous that you

835
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: can't calm down. So like you've just taken a situation

836
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: and made it worse versus instead, with the research shows

837
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: really clearly is just changing your mindset and learning to

838
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: label those physical sensations is arousal versus anxiety and say

839
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: I'm aroused. This is thousands of years of evolution that

840
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: has programmed the human body to feel this way in

841
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: high pressure situations. I'm going to channel it and use it.

842
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: And just that level of self talk can totally totally

843
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: change your perception of what's kind of crazy. How powerful

844
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 1: self talk is just like being able to recognize what's

845
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: happening in your head and kind of talk yourself through

846
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: these things. I feel like when you say these things

847
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: just a normal conversation, it kind of sounds like you're

848
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 1: a crazy person. But there's so much power there, isn't there? Oh? Yeah,

849
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: for sure. Um, I'm I'm a big fan of um

850
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: of just having a few mantras to go do, because again,

851
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: it can be hard, like in the midst of that situation,

852
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: you don't want to like have to come up with

853
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: a dialogue that's going to be helpful. Uh So, just

854
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: a few pointers. So for me, something that I use

855
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: in in in high intensity situations across all aspects of

856
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: my life is I just say, this is what's happening

857
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: right now. Like those couple of words just bring me

858
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: into the present moment, gets me out of the fear,

859
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: out of the I'm feeling anxious, I'm tight. It's just

860
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 1: this is what's happening right now. UM. Don't don't lay

861
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: any kind of concept onto it. Just this is what's happening.

862
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: And and and I'm not saying that that should be

863
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: the mantra that listeners use, but coming up with a

864
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: thing or two, if it's just gonna bring you back

865
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: into the present moment and remind you that like you've

866
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: trained and you're there for it, and you can trust

867
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 1: your training, that can be so helpful. And one of

868
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: the one of the ways I think this applies really

869
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,439
Speaker 1: really nicely to what we're doing a lot of times

870
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: is archery. And you mentioned the mantra that you use.

871
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: That concept is actually something that some people in the

872
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: archery field talk about, how you can have this this

873
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 1: phrase or series of phrases that can help just center you,

874
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: get you into your routine, um avoids some of the

875
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: fears and negative self talk that might be there. UM

876
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: and and on that topic of archery, then it brings

877
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: me to another concept that you talked about in the book,

878
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: which was around practice. So for hunters, whether you're trying

879
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: to practice with a with a firearm or a bow,

880
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: it takes it takes a lot of time, a lot

881
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: of uh, routine building. Have the building I guess to

882
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: become proficient with something like that. Um, but lots of

883
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: times you see people just practicing with their bow and

884
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: they just kind of go through the motions. You guys

885
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: write about a concept called deliberate practice. I've heard about

886
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: this from from various folks and it seems really powerful.

887
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: Can you talk about what that is and why that's important?

888
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So practice you've probably heard this, But practice

889
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: doesn't make perfect perfect practice makes perfect, and deliberate practice

890
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: is a notion that when you go out to practice,

891
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: you should have clear goals and objectives before the session,

892
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: you should have steps to execute on that, and you

893
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: should break down what you're trying to do into small

894
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 1: parts and then focus on each of those individuals small parts. Uh.

895
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: Deliberate practice is not always fun. Uh. There's some really

896
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: interesting research in the book around how when world class

897
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: athletes and world class musicians when they describe practice, they

898
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: describe it is really challenging and kind of something to

899
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: get through, and when scientists hook up physiological monitors on them,

900
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: they're actually showing a stress response throughout practice. Whereas matures,

901
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: they tend to really enjoy practice and they say that

902
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: they have fun when they're practicing. So really good practice

903
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 1: shouldn't necessarily be fun. It should be a vigorous challenge,

904
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: both mentally and in some fields physically. Um So, I

905
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: think it's okay to go out there and have fun, Yes,

906
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: you want to do that, but for your key practice sessions,

907
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: they shouldn't feel fun. They should feel like it's a

908
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: fully demanding challenge of of both mind and body. Uh.

909
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: And that's a big shift for a lot of people,

910
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: and it's hard to do that day in and day out.

911
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: The best athletes they tend to only do three hard

912
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: workouts a week and the rest of their stuff is

913
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: easier and more fun. Um But I think it's really

914
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,919
Speaker 1: important to identify these two or three practice sessions where

915
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: you might not have fun, it's going to be really

916
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 1: really demanding, but you bring a hundred percent presents to

917
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: the session. You break down what you're trying to do

918
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: into very small parts, and you really work on fine

919
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: tuning specific parts. I mean, I relate this to like

920
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: a golfer again, like I you know, I want to

921
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: cav at this, like I'm not a hunter, so I

922
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: don't know. But I think that can also be valuable

923
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: that I don't know because I have like this broad

924
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: perspective is I've gotten to coach and spend time with golfers.

925
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: And there's a big difference between going out to the

926
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: driving range and hitting fifty balls with each club versus

927
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: going out there and saying, I'm really gonna work on

928
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 1: my for iron and I'm particularly gonna work on my

929
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: follow through and for an hour just focusing on that

930
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what, like that is not fun.

931
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: That's how you get better. Yeah, I think that's a perfect,

932
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: a perfect analogy for the same thing. And be with

933
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: with practicing your archery, it's uh, that's don't and yeah,

934
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: and don't try to do that every day of the

935
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: week because you'll it's like back to stress plus rest.

936
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,239
Speaker 1: Like that's too much stress. You'll burn out, you'll start

937
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: hating hating the sport. So it's like, identify two to

938
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 1: three key practice sessions in and it can just be

939
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: two by two hours a week, and if you haven't

940
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 1: been practicing in that way, just inserting four hours or

941
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 1: or two sessions of that kind of deliberate practice goes

942
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: such a long way to make you better. So another

943
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: another tie into that, I guess, right, if we're talking

944
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: about trying to bring some deliberate practice into our lives,

945
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 1: if we're talking about trying to find ways to insert

946
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: stress and rest into our lives to to combet at

947
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: our pursuits like hunting in this case, UM, lots of

948
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: times it's hard to build that into your routine and

949
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: or can be if if right, we're all busy, there's

950
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: always too much on a lot of our plates, or

951
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: run around like chickens with their heads cut off. It

952
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: feels like all the time, UM, Which brings me to

953
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: a little bit of what you guys talked about within

954
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: another section of that book, which is around priming, building

955
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: habits and routines and different things like that that can

956
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: can help you grow too. UM. Can you speak a

957
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: little bit about what you guys mean by priming and

958
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: why having these types of processes in your life are important.

959
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: This is something I've kind of been talking about the

960
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: last two weeks in particularly. We talked with David Wise

961
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: about this the week before. I share some of my

962
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: own habits and routines I'm trying to get better at

963
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: building into my life. Um, how does that fit into

964
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: this peak performer research you guys have done. So I

965
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, I don't need to go into the weeds

966
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: on this because I think it's pretty well accepted that

967
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,280
Speaker 1: routines are really helpful. I'll say two things. The first

968
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: is that there are a lot of people out there

969
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: and what I mentioned earlier the bro science community that

970
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: try to sell their routine is the be all and

971
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: end all, the only routine, and they're generally selling you

972
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: some kind of product with that, right, So you drink

973
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 1: this coffee or you drink this tea and and then

974
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna do better, and you have to do this

975
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: in the morning and this at night. The research shows

976
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: that none of that's true. While routine itself is really important,

977
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: there's no single routine, so there's a lot of self experimentation.

978
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: So it's right routine for the right person at the

979
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: right time of their life, and i'd even say for

980
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: the right activity. So your routine for hunting could look

981
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: very different than your routine for whatever you're doing in

982
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: your nine to five job. Of course it's going to

983
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: so no, right, like, routine is important, But anyone that

984
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 1: tells you that they've got the magical routine, it might

985
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: be magical for them, but it doesn't mean it's magical

986
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: for you. You've got to figure that out. Why this

987
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: kind of routine is so important, though, is um I

988
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 1: think the easiest way to describe it is this. If

989
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: if you show a baby a chair and use technology

990
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: to look inside a baby's brain, nothing special happens. If

991
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 1: you show an adult a chair and use technology to

992
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: look inside an adult's brain, The part of their brain

993
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: called the motor cortex that is associated with the sitting

994
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 1: motion starts to fire just by showing them a chair.

995
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: So you might be thinking, well, what the hell does

996
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: this have to do with routine? And I'd say it

997
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: has everything to do with routine, because once you get

998
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: into a routine, before you're even consciously able to think

999
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: about what you're doing, your brain is primed to do

1000
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: that thing. So the reason the baby's brain doesn't fire

1001
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: when they see a chair is because they haven't lived

1002
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: a whole life associating chairs with sitting but once you

1003
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: associate chairs with sitting, your brain is going to be

1004
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: primed to sit in the minute that you see that chair.

1005
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: And that's basically what routine does for you. You ease

1006
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: into your routine in your brain is operating. Your subconscious

1007
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: brain is operating faster than your conscious mind. So it's

1008
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: a step of head leading you in the direction that

1009
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: you want. And having those routines helps you helps hard

1010
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: decisions become a little bit easier. Right, There's this concept

1011
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,040
Speaker 1: that that I've read a lot about, and I know

1012
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: you guys discussed too, called decision fatigue. So like the

1013
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: all the different little micro decisions you have to make

1014
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: during a day that maybe yeah, they add up. And

1015
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: so in the hunting world, I've always thought this a huge, huge,

1016
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 1: huge thing because a lot, especially within on the mental

1017
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: side of things, you're you're forced to make a lot

1018
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: of decisions. Let's say, before you go out for the day,

1019
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: you need to decide, Okay, what what section or property

1020
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to, how am I going to access

1021
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: this piece of woods, which is the proper tree stand

1022
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to? How what time should be in there?

1023
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: What what where do I think that they are going

1024
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: to be. Where do I think that they are going,

1025
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: How do I think the direction of the wind is

1026
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: going to influence that? What do I think about the

1027
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: time of year versus the weather factors versus the own phase?

1028
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: All these I mean, there's a million different variables you

1029
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: have to think about before heading in for a day.

1030
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: And I've always thought if there's any kind of habit

1031
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: or process I can have in place to eliminate as

1032
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: many of the easy decisions or have to get go,

1033
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: the more I can do that, the more mental energy

1034
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: I can put towards those couple tough decisions. So I

1035
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: try to make sure I've got a plan for are

1036
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna have these four pieces of clothing

1037
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: out and ready to go first thing in the morning.

1038
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 1: I don't need to think about what I'm gonna grab

1039
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 1: to wear. I'm gonna have my lunch and dinner that

1040
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pack in with me and have that already

1041
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: made the night before, so in the morning I can

1042
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 1: just grab that bag and I don't need to worry

1043
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,319
Speaker 1: about choosing what I'm gonna bring. Um, just little things

1044
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: like that, I think kind of fall into this idea

1045
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 1: of maybe not you're not priming yourself, but you're at

1046
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 1: least addressing the decision fatigue side of things. Right, Yeah,

1047
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: and that's that's the time I was. You know, you

1048
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: beat me to it. Man, we're on the same page.

1049
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,800
Speaker 1: That's like the second part of routines, the second big benefits.

1050
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: So the first is the priming notion, like getting your

1051
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: subconscious geared up to to do the thing before you're

1052
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: even there. And then the second part is the more

1053
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: that you can automate things, the more you free up

1054
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: the capacity to be fully present and have the energy

1055
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: both physical, emotional and mental for those tough decisions that

1056
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: you can't automate. Uh. Some of my favorite studies are

1057
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: and this isn't just in the research, This isn't a

1058
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: lot of high performers. Uh. If you eat the same

1059
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: food every day and you wear the same clothes, you

1060
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:31,479
Speaker 1: make better decisions on everything else. Uh. With athletes, if

1061
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: if they have to figure out what they want to

1062
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 1: wear before a hard workout and what they're going to

1063
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: use as their fuel, they squat less weight than if

1064
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 1: they've already decided that at a time. So seemingly unrelated things,

1065
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: because both your ability to make decisions and your willpower

1066
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: gets so much better when you only have to worry

1067
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: about the hard thing. So, if I'm going in to

1068
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: to front squad a max effort, I don't want to

1069
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: be thinking about anything. I want to know who's spotting

1070
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,280
Speaker 1: me ahead of time. I want to know what barbell

1071
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be on, what kind of clamp I'm going

1072
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: to use, I want to I don't want to be

1073
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 1: thinking about what kind of protein shake I'm gonna have after.

1074
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: I want all that to be automated, so all my energy,

1075
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: all my willpower, can go towards the task at hand.

1076
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: So if you're on in a hunt, figure out what

1077
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,359
Speaker 1: are the most important things that you really need your

1078
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: willpower and your decision making for, and automate everything else.

1079
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: I think that's that's such a powerful idea that that

1080
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: probably speaking from. If if I were to just depend

1081
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: on like my base um mental qualities, like if I

1082
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 1: if I just kind of went with what the easiest

1083
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 1: thing to be, would for me would be to be

1084
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 1: kind of unorganized chaos and procrastination UM and I would

1085
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: constantly figuring out all these things at the last minute.

1086
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:44,839
Speaker 1: What am I gonna bring and what do I need

1087
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: to grab what am I gonna wear? And I mean

1088
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: it'd be a mess. I have to force myself into

1089
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: preparing ahead of time and trying to develop some of

1090
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: these systems UM because I just know it's it's so

1091
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: easy to fall into the messy procrastinator route that I

1092
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 1: just need to put these things in place. So there's

1093
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: a lot of ways that can apply UM slight pivot

1094
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 1: on that, because as I'm thinking about the mental side

1095
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: of hunting and trying to plan for things and trying

1096
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: to develop practices around you know, actually practicing or preparing

1097
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: for hunts and shooting, archery and whatnot. UM. Another key

1098
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: thing that I've always pointed to that's kind of intangible UM,

1099
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: but I've always thought has been something that gave UM.

1100
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: I'd like to think that I try to embody this,

1101
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: but definitely other UM high performers within the hunting world

1102
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 1: that I've studied and talked to, a key consistent trade

1103
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: across them is always just this mental toughness or you

1104
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: might call it grit, just the ability like it's gonna

1105
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: get done. Like the first thing might not work, but

1106
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: we'll try option bet, and then we'll try option see,

1107
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 1: and you're push through the challenges and like failure isn't

1108
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: an option in many ways for a lot of these people.

1109
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: And you kind of a little bit passing towards the

1110
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: end of the book, I think I remember seeing a

1111
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: little bit about um this idea of grit and Angela

1112
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: Duckworth's book, which I've read and found really interesting. Whether

1113
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 1: it be in the research for this book or through

1114
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: maybe some of your other conversations for your outside columns

1115
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: and things like that, can you just speak to anything

1116
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: you've learned about grit how we might be able to

1117
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 1: develop that, because it seems like sometimes like such an intangible,

1118
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: maybe even inherited traite like us. Some people are just

1119
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 1: gritty and tough and some people aren't. But I gotta

1120
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: believe that's not the case. We can probably foster that, right,

1121
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: So it's totally not the case. So there's no there's

1122
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: no grit gene, or at least if there is a

1123
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:40,719
Speaker 1: great gene like DNA, no, no one's yet identified that. Uh.

1124
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing here that a lot of

1125
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: other people in this field don't seem to be talking

1126
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: about a lot. And it's the drum that I'm trying

1127
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 1: to beat because I actually think it's the most important

1128
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: is to surround yourself wisely with other people that are

1129
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 1: going to push you. Particularly in America in the west's

1130
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: a very individualistic culture. We like to think that we

1131
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: have to be gritty, and we have to have the willpower,

1132
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: and we have to show up. All that stuff is

1133
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: so much easier if you're in a community of other

1134
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: people pushing you to do it. Um. So, I think

1135
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 1: the most important thing for grit is to surround yourself

1136
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: with people that are gonna push you and hold you accountable,

1137
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: and that on your really good days are going to

1138
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 1: bring you back down to earth, and on your really

1139
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: bad days are going to push you to show up. Uh, Because,

1140
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 1: like grit is really just about showing up. Showing up

1141
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: is a very inspirational motivational phrase. But but it stops there.

1142
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: But if you've got three to five people that you

1143
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 1: care about and care about you making sure you show up,

1144
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: then suddenly showing up becomes an action that you're gonna take.

1145
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 1: And I heard I heard you once talking about this

1146
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: maybe it was a rich, rich role um about the

1147
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: fact that when you're thinking about who you surround yourself with,

1148
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily that the people around you all have

1149
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: to be like the very best performers, um, like you,

1150
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 1: You're They're not gonna be maybe the very best at

1151
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: in this case, all the greatest hunters in the world.

1152
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 1: But if they are at least all positive like people

1153
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 1: that will push you and have the right positive mindset

1154
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: around around what you're trying to pursue, that's the most

1155
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: powerful aspect. Does that is that right to interpret that? Right? Totally?

1156
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: It's because you can be you can surround yourself with

1157
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: great performers, but if they're negative and not trying to

1158
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: get better and sulking, it doesn't matter how good their

1159
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 1: skills are. So I'm glad you clarified this is not

1160
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: about skill. It's much more about attitude and mindset. So

1161
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: they might be great, greatly skilled, but they might be novices.

1162
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: And it actually might be that what you need is

1163
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: the energy and enthusiasm of a novice if if you're

1164
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuck in a rot to kind of reignite

1165
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: you and relight the passion, relight the fire. Um. But

1166
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: I just think that like there's such a there's such

1167
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: a cultural ethos around individualism and going at it on

1168
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: your own, and I think the power of a tribe

1169
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: and the power of community, um across all of evolution

1170
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 1: for our species has just been super important. And I

1171
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: think that's that's if you ask me, the key determinati

1172
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: of grit is community. So this this perfectly then, And

1173
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,840
Speaker 1: that's obviously your two books are very connected because these

1174
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 1: topics are really kind of one and the same. They

1175
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,959
Speaker 1: meld and mold right into each other. When you talk

1176
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: about people that are wanting to surround themselves with other

1177
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 1: people that will push them to their to be their

1178
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 1: best lots of times, it's because, right they're really passionate

1179
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: about whatever it is that they're pursuing. And UM, I've

1180
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 1: had this recent question that I've kind of talked about

1181
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks that I've thought about myself

1182
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: as i've you know, um explored my personal goals to

1183
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: get better um at certain things and and weighed that

1184
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: against my my personal tendency to get really excited about

1185
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: all sorts of different things. So what I mean specifically

1186
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: is that like the number one thing that I do

1187
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: is I hunt dear. That's like my number one passion,

1188
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 1: That's what I spend the most time on. That's what

1189
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 1: my audience is interested in the very most Um, that's

1190
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 1: the like eight percent of the hunters in America or

1191
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: deer hunters. Um. So that's what my number one passion.

1192
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: And someone told me, and I've brought this up over

1193
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: and over again, but someone told me once that you

1194
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 1: couldn't be really great at deer hunting if you let

1195
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 1: yourself have other passions. And I've kind of wondered about that, Like,

1196
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: am I am I missing it out on potential because

1197
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm getting distracted by fly fishing or backpacking or whatever

1198
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 1: it might be. Uh, you had I can't remember who

1199
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 1: it was, but someone in the book you guys quoted,

1200
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: I believe, said that in order to be a maximalist,

1201
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: you need to be a minimalist. I'm wondering what you

1202
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: think about that, given that that was within the Peak

1203
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: Performance book, And I think that this person was speaking

1204
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: to the fact that you do need to try to

1205
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: find ways to trim the facts you can focus on

1206
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: your your number one goal. But at the same time,

1207
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: within the passion paradox, it sounds like sometimes that can

1208
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: be a danger too. Can you just speak to that

1209
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: what your thoughts are now on that? Oh, now we're

1210
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: getting philosophical So I love this topic. I mean, this

1211
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 1: is why I wrote the second book, UM, which I

1212
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: actually think is the more And I told you this offline,

1213
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: and no, I think it's probably the more important book

1214
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: of the two UM, particularly for your audience, just because

1215
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: it's a passionate group of people who can fall in

1216
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: love with this sport and that love can be the

1217
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: best thing in your life and the most energizing source,

1218
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: and then it can turn destructive and you can be like, well,

1219
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: how the hell did this happen? Uh? And that's not

1220
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: just hunting. That is every single pursuit that people get

1221
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: passionate about UM. And the crux of it is this

1222
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: being passionate is I would argue, like, what makes life

1223
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: worth living. There is nothing like feeling totally energized, revved

1224
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: up on something tunnel vision. It's the only thing that

1225
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 1: you can think about. You are just committed to it.

1226
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: It excites you, it makes you tick. Uh. There's a

1227
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 1: reason that passion and love are intimately connected words because

1228
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: the passion is very very similar neurochemically to love. So

1229
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: when you're falling in love, the only thing on your

1230
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: mind is the object of your attraction that can be

1231
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,800
Speaker 1: true if you're falling in love with hunting, like it's

1232
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: not just love for another person. And when I was

1233
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: doing the research for this book, I asked people while

1234
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: when in life where they're the happiest. No one described

1235
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: times of their life when they were perfectly balanced. People said,

1236
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: it was when I was training for my first marathon.

1237
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,160
Speaker 1: It's it's when I was you know, out on out

1238
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 1: on a safari, uh, climbing Mount Everest, starting a business,

1239
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,760
Speaker 1: training to make it to the Olympics. Like, these are

1240
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 1: times of life when you're completely unbalanced, that are the

1241
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: happiest times of your life. Now, the issue is if

1242
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: you live that way in perpetuity, what can end up

1243
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: happening is your identity gets so fused to that one

1244
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: thing that you forget about everything else for months, and

1245
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: then for years, and then for decades, and suddenly you

1246
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: look back and you're like, holy sh it, like what

1247
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: did I just do? Or you get injured and you

1248
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: can no longer hunt, and then you're like, well, if

1249
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 1: I can't hunt, then who am I? Or your marriage

1250
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: falls apart, Like these are real, real consequences. So the

1251
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,200
Speaker 1: book is called The Passion Paradox because this is a paradox,

1252
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: and I think it's so important, and it's shocked me

1253
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:04,200
Speaker 1: no one's talking about this, that being super passionate, obsessive,

1254
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: driven about something is both the greatest blessing and also

1255
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,959
Speaker 1: the greatest curse, and it can be both those things

1256
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: at the same time. So if you're passionate, to me,

1257
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: it's not about being balanced or passionate, those two things

1258
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: that you can't be both. It's about walking this fine

1259
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: line of being super passionate about your pursuit, being able

1260
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,440
Speaker 1: to go all in, but maintaining just enough self awareness

1261
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: to objectively evaluate what you're giving up as a result,

1262
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: and to try to make sure that that's in alignment

1263
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: with your values. And that's really really hard to do.

1264
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: And that's often the difference between a phenomenal, happy, high

1265
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: performing life and burnout, depression, anxiety. Yeah, there's lots of

1266
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: unpackaged there. Um. And you're right, this is this is

1267
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: probably the most important topic within within our little micro

1268
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: world here of hunting, but it's it's almost never talked about.

1269
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:57,760
Speaker 1: It's talked about in generalities. I guess lots of times

1270
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: will discuss um like a very common quandary that will

1271
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: have chats with folks about is how do you balance

1272
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: hunting with family life and other obligations and the challenges

1273
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: of doing that, and you know, sometimes how do you

1274
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: help your significant other understand why this matters so much

1275
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: to you? Or how do you put enough time in

1276
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: other parts of your life so you can spend so

1277
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,439
Speaker 1: much time doing this other thing. Um. The point being

1278
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: that that hunting is definitely just like you said, as

1279
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: many other pursuits are. It's something that people can fall deeply, deeply,

1280
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: deeply kind of in love with. There's so much you

1281
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: can get into, it can consume your life, you can

1282
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: so much, I mean, three hundred sixty five days a year.

1283
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about something related to this pursuit. But to

1284
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:43,280
Speaker 1: your point, um, which which can be pretty awesome like that, Yeah,

1285
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 1: like exactly like yeah, and that and that's what makes

1286
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: it hard to step away. Yeah, yeah, sorry, go on,

1287
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: Oh no, I mean you're exactly right. I mean, it's

1288
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: really easy to point out the positives of passion, you know, like,

1289
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,920
Speaker 1: there's so I mean, it's it's a great feeling, you

1290
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: get excited it. It probably propels you to to higher

1291
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: heights because you're about something and I'm kind of lucky,

1292
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of people listening to this podcast are

1293
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: lucky because we have a passion. Right. There's probably a

1294
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: lot of people out there that you know here folks say, oh, well,

1295
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,640
Speaker 1: passion is a great thing. Find your passion, and they're thinking, well,

1296
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: I don't know what I really like to do. I like,

1297
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,040
Speaker 1: I go to work and I just kind of get

1298
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: through it, and then I go home and I watch

1299
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, and you know, I try to get

1300
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,480
Speaker 1: a paycheck and try to you know, provide for my family,

1301
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: but they don't have that driving force or this other

1302
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 1: thing that gets them out of bed and gets them excited.

1303
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: I feel pretty lucky to have found my passion something

1304
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 1: that really does energize me, and that my my year

1305
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: kind of pivots around the seasons of this passion um

1306
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, it has this kind of dark

1307
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 1: side to it, and within our world, you kind of

1308
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: spoke to a couple of these things, like I know

1309
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: people whose marriages have fallen apart because they get so

1310
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: obsessed with this. I know people who have lost or

1311
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: ruined great friendships because of this. I know people not personally,

1312
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: but I've certainly read about and heard about lots of

1313
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: people have become so obsessed where the end outcomes related

1314
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: to hunting that they've bent the rules or broke the

1315
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: rules and done illegal things just because they want to

1316
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: stroke their ego and say, oh, I got this buck

1317
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: or I did this thing. Um, there's a whole lot

1318
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 1: of that happening, especially in today's kind of instagram age.

1319
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:18,840
Speaker 1: I bad, it's hunting. I know in other sports it

1320
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: is like even even in weight training, like you've got

1321
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: guys doping and using steroids so they can take a

1322
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: video of themselves back squatting eight hundred pounds. Yes, it

1323
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: is exactly that. I mean, it's a huge, huge, huge

1324
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: thing going on. So so there is this whole side

1325
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: of that that we're not really examining. A whole lot. Um.

1326
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 1: I guess let's start there. What have you learned about

1327
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: the negative power of passion? I know, one of the

1328
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: things you labels obsessive passion. Yeah, that's a good place

1329
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: to start. So and and and this is, um, this

1330
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:52,959
Speaker 1: is so important for people to understand. And it's something

1331
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: that I didn't realize until I started writing this book

1332
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: and learning about this topic in a meaningful way. So

1333
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 1: there are two kinds of passions. One is what's called

1334
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: harmonious passion. The other is obsessive passion. Harmonious passion is

1335
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: when you are passionate about the activity itself. So in

1336
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 1: the case of hunting, this is when you are passionate

1337
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: about hunting because you love hunting. Obsessive passion is when

1338
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: you are passionate about the activity because of the external

1339
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,560
Speaker 1: validation you get from it. So this is when you

1340
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: are passionate about hunting because you like telling your friends

1341
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: that you're a hunter, and you like the comments on

1342
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: Instagram when you post you know, when you post your outcomes.

1343
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:39,440
Speaker 1: People with harmonious passion they have they have great life satisfaction, happiness,

1344
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 1: and lasting performance. People with obsessive passion driven more by

1345
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: that external stuff that is associated with depression, anxiety, burnout,

1346
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 1: and cheating. Some of the greatest cheaters in history score

1347
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: off the charts on obsessive passion. So Lance Armstrong crazy

1348
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:59,880
Speaker 1: obsessive passion. Elizabeth Holmes, the woman behind Pharaonus that by

1349
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 1: tech company that was a huge fraud, crazy obsessive passion,

1350
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: Barry Bonds, and Alex Rodriguez crazy obsessive passion. So they

1351
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 1: got so so wed to their results, and they became

1352
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: so so passionate about being the man or the woman

1353
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 1: about stroking their ego of results. You literally do anything,

1354
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:21,000
Speaker 1: even if it's cheating or fraud, to get those results.

1355
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: And if you don't get those results, then your identity suffers,

1356
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: your self worth suffers, and that's a very very very

1357
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 1: quick route to depression and anxiety and burnout. Now, no

1358
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: one starts out wanting to be obsessively passionate, but no

1359
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: one teaches you about this stuff. So it just kind

1360
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:39,840
Speaker 1: of happens, like very common trajectory. As you start out

1361
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 1: harmoniously passionate. You love hunting, you fall in love with

1362
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: the sport, and then suddenly you start to get good results,

1363
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 1: and then you start to post those good results on

1364
01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,000
Speaker 1: Instagram or share those good results with the community, and

1365
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:53,680
Speaker 1: the next thing, you know, because humans crave social status.

1366
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: This is just how our species is hardwired. You become

1367
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: more attached to those external results than to the love

1368
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,400
Speaker 1: of the thing itself, and that that can be a

1369
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: precarious spot to be in. Now, I think it's also

1370
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: important to say no one exists solely in one end

1371
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: of the spectrum or the other. Right, Like this is

1372
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: on a continuum. So where where I come out and

1373
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 1: what the book the research in the book taught me.

1374
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,480
Speaker 1: So long as the majority of your passion is harmonious,

1375
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: most of the time you're in you're in good shape.

1376
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: The problem is when you start to get into these

1377
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 1: obsessive routs that then you can start to latch onto

1378
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 1: carrying so much and craving the outcome and the external validation.

1379
01:08:32,520 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: That's when you get kind of on this on this

1380
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: negative trajectory. I face this in writing all the time.

1381
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: I like to use myself an example because, like I

1382
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: said earlier, like I don't have all this stuff figured out.

1383
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: I'm working on figuring it out. That's why I write

1384
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 1: about it. When I publish a book or have an

1385
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:49,600
Speaker 1: essay go viral, there is such an inclination for me

1386
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: to sit there and refresh my sales rank, or to

1387
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 1: sit there and look at Twitter because because for writing,

1388
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 1: Twitter is kind of the medium I assume for hunting

1389
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: its Instagram. I could be wrong, but to sit there

1390
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 1: and like refresh and watch the comments come in because

1391
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,120
Speaker 1: I'm a human. The issue is when that force becomes

1392
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 1: so powerful of it, then you start getting upset when

1393
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 1: the comments don't come in, or you start being willing

1394
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,839
Speaker 1: to do some shady things to have an external success.

1395
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:16,679
Speaker 1: And it's so important to just be aware of when

1396
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 1: that's happening so you can nip it in the bud

1397
01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,280
Speaker 1: and stop those roots from growing too deep. Yeah, something

1398
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: I found really interesting was what you guys dove into

1399
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: related to the science of passion, like kind of like

1400
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: the neuro chemistry of of of how passion becomes almost addictive.

1401
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 1: Um can you can you expand it a little bit

1402
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 1: on that just I think people would be find pretty

1403
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: interesting to understand how and why we get so so,

1404
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, consumed by the stuff. Yeah. So there's

1405
01:09:44,400 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 1: a neurochemical called dopamine, and dopamine is the neurochemical um

1406
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: involved of striving. So dopamine isn't about feeling good once

1407
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: you've achieved something. It's about the excitement and feeling excited

1408
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: and good about the chase. And our species evolved for

1409
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 1: dopamine to be a very strong neurochemical. And that's because

1410
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,040
Speaker 1: way back when, when when we were evolving, if you

1411
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:14,719
Speaker 1: had to kill, you wouldn't want to be content, because

1412
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: if you were content and then there was famine, you

1413
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: would die. So the part of our species that that

1414
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: got selected and turned into modern day humans were those

1415
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: that were really like that that needed dopamine, right, because

1416
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 1: it's the dopamine that fueled them to never be content

1417
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,720
Speaker 1: to keep on going. Now, dopamine never be content to

1418
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: keep on going. As you can imagine, that's the same neurochemical.

1419
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 1: I it's implicated an addiction because such a part of

1420
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: addiction is chasing that next high. Can't be content, Gotta

1421
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: get my fix. There's fascinating research that shows that what

1422
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: addicts are actually addicted to isn't so much the feel

1423
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 1: good of the high, but it's the chase. It's getting

1424
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:56,639
Speaker 1: their score, getting their fix. And I think anyone that's

1425
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: a passionate person can can probably empathize with that, because

1426
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,040
Speaker 1: for me, the passion isn't the feeling of having your

1427
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:08,160
Speaker 1: book being a best seller. Passion is like writing the

1428
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 1: book and promoting it. It's like the whole process. It's

1429
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: the chase. If anything, when my book was named the

1430
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 1: best seller was kind of a letdown because it's kind

1431
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 1: of like, now, what, um, So what ends up happening

1432
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 1: is much like an addiction. The stakes keep on getting

1433
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: higher and you kind of keep on having to chase, chase, Chase, chase, Chase. Now,

1434
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: the minute that this chase gets pointed in an unproductive direction,

1435
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:32,680
Speaker 1: it can totally go haywire. Uh So that's what I

1436
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: was saying again. This, this is this is why the

1437
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,719
Speaker 1: book is called the Passion Paradox. One of the many

1438
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:40,559
Speaker 1: paradoxes of passion is on the one hand, this chase

1439
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:45,400
Speaker 1: is associated with well being, peak performance, life satisfaction, so

1440
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: long as it's kind of kept in chuck. On the

1441
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 1: other hand, it's associated with depression, anxiety, burnout, and passion

1442
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:54,840
Speaker 1: and addiction are really two sides of the same coin. Um,

1443
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: you know, I like to nerd out. I could talk

1444
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: about this forever, but perhaps the simplest way to think

1445
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: about this is that the definition of passion is the

1446
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:06,680
Speaker 1: relentless pursuit of something with productive consequences. The definition of

1447
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 1: addiction is the relentless pursuit of something despite negative consequences.

1448
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: So the only difference is what you're getting at the end.

1449
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 1: And that's why what starts as a productive passion can

1450
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,599
Speaker 1: become a destructive addiction if you're not careful. Yeah, it's

1451
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: interesting because obsession passion and obsession within the hunting world

1452
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 1: are are kind of glorified. Especially it's it's kind of funny.

1453
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: There's a there's a really large hunting brand that their slogan,

1454
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if it still is now, but at

1455
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:40,920
Speaker 1: least for some period of time, the big slogan was

1456
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,000
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a passion, it's an obsession.

1457
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: So there exactly. Um So, I mean this is definitely

1458
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,680
Speaker 1: something within our world, like like hunters are self admittedly

1459
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: and glorifying being obsessed, and like you're going all in

1460
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:01,120
Speaker 1: and you're this is what you're doing all the time.

1461
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 1: But to your point that the rub is knowing when

1462
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: the outcomes are negative versus pausitive, what that passion energy

1463
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: is going towards. Yeah, And again this is the philosophical

1464
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 1: stuff that's never talked about, but it's so important and

1465
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 1: and I want listeners to like pause and really reflect

1466
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 1: on this. Are you doing it out of love or

1467
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: are you doing it out of ego and the need

1468
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: to be relevant? And and it can be both, and

1469
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,960
Speaker 1: at times it is both, but the majority of the time,

1470
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 1: what is it about? And if it's about ego and

1471
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 1: being relevant, that is a warning sign that hey, I

1472
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:40,439
Speaker 1: better rein this in and we can get into it.

1473
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: There are ways to rein it in. If it's about love,

1474
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 1: then that's great. So same behavior, same amount of time

1475
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 1: spent hunting, it could be the same anything. But if

1476
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,799
Speaker 1: the if the deep motivation is love, it is freeing,

1477
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: it's expansive, it's it's incredible. If the motivation is ego

1478
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: or needing to be relevant, then that can lead to anxiety.

1479
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,439
Speaker 1: Is that the main way to identify if your passion

1480
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,280
Speaker 1: has gone too far, if your obsessive passionate or is

1481
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: there some other way to like, like, how do I

1482
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: how do I know if I fall into that camp?

1483
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,640
Speaker 1: So I think that a big way to do it

1484
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 1: in in fields where there are pretty clear outcomes. So

1485
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: writing I'm super familiar with, there's very clear outcomes. You know,

1486
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: how many people read your essay, how many people bought

1487
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: your book? Hunting? I imagine the outcome like you can

1488
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: freaking way the outcome. It's pretty clear. If you spend

1489
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: more time stressing about those outcomes and sharing those outcomes

1490
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 1: and focusing on those outcomes than the love of the

1491
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 1: actual pursuit, that to me is a telltale sign that

1492
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 1: I need to course correct and the way that you

1493
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: course correct is simply by getting back to the work. Um,

1494
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: so I'll let you translate to hunting. I'll tell you

1495
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:49,600
Speaker 1: how this shakes out in writing. So I write a

1496
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 1: book or I write an article. If it does really well,

1497
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: and I start to spend a lot of time refreshing Twitter,

1498
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: looking at my sales rank, reading reviews about the book,

1499
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: and it's like ego candy. It feels really good to

1500
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: eat in the short term. But if all I do

1501
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:06,080
Speaker 1: is spend a week thinking about that stuff, I start

1502
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: to feel kind of gross by the end of the week.

1503
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:10,640
Speaker 1: So what I've learned to do is that when I

1504
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 1: catch myself kind of starting to obsess over that ego,

1505
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 1: over that relevance, the the external validation, I literally and

1506
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: it feels like I'm forcing myself. I force myself to

1507
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: get back to doing the work itself. So for me,

1508
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: that means I start researching my next piece, or I

1509
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 1: start writing my newsletter, even if I'm ten newsletters ahead,

1510
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 1: I just start writing because that it sends a very visceral,

1511
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:39,479
Speaker 1: embodied reminder that what I actually like is writing. Not

1512
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: all the validation. The validation stuff that's a nice byproduct,

1513
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 1: but the true love is writing. But the more time

1514
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: you spend obsessing about that external stuff, the stronger those

1515
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 1: roots get and the more you're going to come to

1516
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 1: create it. Is there any value too, because because the

1517
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: scenari you just outlined is is so spot on for

1518
01:15:58,000 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: folks in the hunting world, I know that there's a

1519
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of whether you want to admit it or not,

1520
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,200
Speaker 1: there's a tremendous amount of ego attached to the outcome

1521
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 1: of hunts. It's just it's just like many things. You

1522
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 1: you win a gold medal in the Olympics, you win

1523
01:16:11,439 --> 01:16:16,360
Speaker 1: a basketball game. I don't like the idea of of

1524
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,320
Speaker 1: labeling the outcome of a hunt, which is a very

1525
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 1: serious thing, right, killing an animal. I don't like to

1526
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 1: label that as a trophy, but that is kind of

1527
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:27,280
Speaker 1: terminology that's used a lot um. But but whatever you

1528
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 1: call it, it is this thing that is very tangible

1529
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 1: and that other people can see and that other people

1530
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: assigned value too. So if you were to kill a

1531
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 1: big deer, um, that is a thing that people in

1532
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,000
Speaker 1: our community assigned value too. And we'll give you accolades

1533
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:43,280
Speaker 1: for and we'll like your Instagram picture a lot and

1534
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:46,720
Speaker 1: we'll think that you are, you know, skilled in some

1535
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 1: way and all those things, right, whether we want admit

1536
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 1: or not, those are things that feel good strokes that ego. Um.

1537
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: And so yeah, there's a ton of this going on

1538
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 1: within our world and it's it's rampant, but it's hard

1539
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 1: to to get outside of it. I mean when it

1540
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,640
Speaker 1: comes to like, do you is there what am I

1541
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:09,840
Speaker 1: trying to say here? Is there any value to going

1542
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,320
Speaker 1: cold turkey on the outside validation side of things? So,

1543
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: for example, if this is something that I feel like,

1544
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: if I'm if I'm hearing you saying this, and I'm like, oh, wow,

1545
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't want to say it. I

1546
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,160
Speaker 1: hate that this is true, but I do find myself

1547
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:26,719
Speaker 1: thinking about these things. Is there any value to pulling

1548
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: the plug and saying, you know what, I'm just gonna

1549
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: stop posting my dear pictures on Instagram and I'm gonna

1550
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,120
Speaker 1: see if you know what that does, if that kind

1551
01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:37,360
Speaker 1: of helps rain things in. Is that kind of cold

1552
01:17:37,360 --> 01:17:41,640
Speaker 1: turkey approach helpful or is that not? I think it

1553
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:48,400
Speaker 1: depends on the situation. Um, I think it can be. Uh.

1554
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 1: And then when you kind of go back, you can

1555
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 1: kind of go like you know, head over heels back

1556
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,799
Speaker 1: into it. I think that there's like a uh maybe

1557
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:59,680
Speaker 1: a less extreme approach, which should be let's say that

1558
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:03,240
Speaker 1: you're an Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, you pick one of those,

1559
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:06,680
Speaker 1: you only use one, and then you only check it

1560
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:11,719
Speaker 1: once a day. Um, so just having some rigid boundaries. Um,

1561
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: for me, that meant taking all social media and internet

1562
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,720
Speaker 1: off my phone. So now the only time I can

1563
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:20,920
Speaker 1: check that stuff is when I'm at my actual computer.

1564
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: So it's just like less accessible. Uh and again, like

1565
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 1: I'm a freaking like expert on this stuff in my

1566
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 1: willpower is not enough because it's like telling someone with

1567
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 1: a gambling addiction to like hold a casino in their pocket,

1568
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 1: which like if you carry a phone with Instagram and

1569
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,360
Speaker 1: you posted a picture like you have a casino in

1570
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: your pocket, you know it's so So what about though,

1571
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 1: the passion? What about because the scenarre of the a

1572
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:48,040
Speaker 1: lot of folks deal with in our world? Wait wait

1573
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:49,560
Speaker 1: wait real quick, real quick, Mark, just to wrap that

1574
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 1: thought up, sorry, because I do think, like I think,

1575
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: less than eliminating this stuff is just realizing, like when

1576
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:56,680
Speaker 1: they're urged to check it is coming up and up

1577
01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:58,800
Speaker 1: and up it again and again and using that as

1578
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:01,679
Speaker 1: a cute to get back to something about the actual

1579
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:06,000
Speaker 1: thing that you love, like not the validation, but the activity.

1580
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:08,280
Speaker 1: So granted, like if you're checking this stuff at eight

1581
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: pm at night, maybe you like can't go outside and

1582
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: start hunting from your front yard, but like start researching

1583
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, the next thing, like start outlining your next

1584
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,560
Speaker 1: training plan, Like do something that is driven towards improvement

1585
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:23,880
Speaker 1: in the craft, not external validation. Yeah, that makes sense.

1586
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:28,680
Speaker 1: Now what if, though, you're what if your passion or

1587
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:33,120
Speaker 1: obsession manifests itself not just in you being obsessed with

1588
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 1: the validation of your outcome, but what if it simply

1589
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: leads to you making decisions that are negative to other

1590
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,679
Speaker 1: parts of your life. So I'm thinking of examples such as,

1591
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,960
Speaker 1: I'm so obsessed with hunting that I spend every for

1592
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 1: a week and I have out in the field, and

1593
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:53,639
Speaker 1: I take weeks and weeks off of time, and instead

1594
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 1: of taking vacation time with my wife and son, I

1595
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: use my vacation time to hunt, and I'm neglecting family

1596
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:03,799
Speaker 1: duties Because you're just so all consumed with this drive

1597
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:07,320
Speaker 1: and you don't have control of that drive and your

1598
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: your relationship with your wife falls apart, of your husband

1599
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:13,040
Speaker 1: falls apart, and your your children suffer because of it. Um,

1600
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 1: that's the thing that happens to I'm sure it happens

1601
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of supports and other things. What about

1602
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 1: that kind of situation, So this is tough man. In

1603
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:27,880
Speaker 1: My approach is to be very values neutral on this. Um.

1604
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: What I mean by that is, I don't label that

1605
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,599
Speaker 1: a I don't label that a bad thing or a

1606
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,719
Speaker 1: good thing. It just is, like the force of passion

1607
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: just is. The bad thing is when the inertia and

1608
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:45,040
Speaker 1: the momentum of the passion stops you from thinking clearly.

1609
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 1: So if you are thinking clearly and you realize that

1610
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:54,040
Speaker 1: your passion for hunting is stronger than your passion for

1611
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:57,000
Speaker 1: your marriage or whatever it might be, and you make

1612
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:01,760
Speaker 1: a conscious decision to prioritize is hunting over that. That

1613
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,639
Speaker 1: is not a good decision or a bad decision. That's

1614
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,200
Speaker 1: your decision, and you made it consciously, so you should

1615
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: be okay with it. Um if that decision is kind

1616
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:16,719
Speaker 1: of like not really conscious because there's like this craving

1617
01:21:16,760 --> 01:21:19,200
Speaker 1: to keep hunting and there's so much momentum that you

1618
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: can't possibly see outside of it. Then that's the kind

1619
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:25,640
Speaker 1: of decision that you often regret. What's interesting is and

1620
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 1: really passionate people, the people that make decisions to put

1621
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,599
Speaker 1: their pursuit above all else, including things like marriage, If

1622
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,280
Speaker 1: they feel like they made that decision from a conscious,

1623
01:21:36,280 --> 01:21:40,280
Speaker 1: wholehearted place, they're actually like pretty happy and fine and

1624
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,240
Speaker 1: they don't have regrets. The issue is when you make

1625
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 1: that decision from being kind of swept up inside of

1626
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:48,880
Speaker 1: the storm of your passion, and then the storm kind

1627
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 1: of passes a couple of years later, that's when you

1628
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,880
Speaker 1: get filled with regrets. Uh. So it's really hard to

1629
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,439
Speaker 1: see outside of that inertia. It's like if you're addicted

1630
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:58,600
Speaker 1: to something, it's very hard to make any kind of

1631
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,439
Speaker 1: rational decision. Passion not too dissimilar. Um, But it's about

1632
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:05,120
Speaker 1: trying to get some distance, some self awareness to make

1633
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:08,559
Speaker 1: that decision. Um. It is true that some of the

1634
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:11,280
Speaker 1: most passionate people, like they're single, they don't have marriages

1635
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 1: because they just put their pursuit above all else. And

1636
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 1: and again like I'm not here to judge people that

1637
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: change the world and in science often are divorced because

1638
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:22,080
Speaker 1: their research came above all else. And I wouldn't want

1639
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,240
Speaker 1: to be married to that person. But I'm really glad

1640
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 1: that they figured out the polio vaccine. Um. So it's

1641
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 1: like this is a value's neutral thing. I think the

1642
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 1: main thing is just really bringing full awareness to it.

1643
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: And it's also to say that most people can be

1644
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 1: passionate about two or three things at the same time.

1645
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,400
Speaker 1: So there are a lot of people that are world

1646
01:22:41,439 --> 01:22:43,760
Speaker 1: class at what they do that also have good loving

1647
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 1: marriages and are good parents, but they probably don't have

1648
01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 1: a lot of friends and and they're probably not the

1649
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,280
Speaker 1: person caring for their parents when their parents get sick,

1650
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 1: and they're probably not going to church every Sunday, and

1651
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: they're probably not watching Game of Thrones, right, So, like

1652
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: it's this kind of fine line about figuring out what

1653
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: really matters to you and then being self aware enough

1654
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,120
Speaker 1: to prioritize between those things. Yeah, this, this concept of

1655
01:23:06,160 --> 01:23:09,879
Speaker 1: self awareness seems to be such an important one, um

1656
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:12,240
Speaker 1: because because you guys talk about this idea of the

1657
01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: unbalanced life and how that's actually okay. Um, how there's

1658
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 1: so much in society put people saying you gotta have balance,

1659
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,600
Speaker 1: gonna have balance. But to your point, if you know,

1660
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,040
Speaker 1: if Elon Musk had balanced in his life, we wouldn't

1661
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 1: have SpaceX, we wouldn't have Tesla, we wouldn't have the

1662
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:30,320
Speaker 1: PayPal account that I'm using to pay for something on

1663
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 1: the online. Um. So there's good things that come out

1664
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: of passionate people that maybe sometimes don't have that balance.

1665
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,320
Speaker 1: Um can you can you expand a little bit on

1666
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 1: what you mean by the unbalanced life and and how

1667
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: you maybe yourself or remember I remember hearing Steve on

1668
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,639
Speaker 1: a podcast talk about this where he he talked about,

1669
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: you know, at times having an unbalanced life and going

1670
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:54,720
Speaker 1: all in on something but having the self awareness to

1671
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: know when to go in and out of that phase.

1672
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:59,240
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that? Yeah, for sure. So so

1673
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,519
Speaker 1: I'm a big believe in an unbalanced life because I'm

1674
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:05,800
Speaker 1: a passionate person. I feel very fortunate that I cared

1675
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:08,519
Speaker 1: deeply about certain things and they make me tick. And

1676
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 1: I think that that's like a privilege to to be

1677
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,480
Speaker 1: able to find things that make you feel that way.

1678
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 1: So for me to try to be balanced would be

1679
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: so frustrating because most people here balance in the self

1680
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:21,840
Speaker 1: help world and they say, you know, be balanced, and

1681
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,760
Speaker 1: that means like equal things and equal proportions so you

1682
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:26,719
Speaker 1: mentioned this earlier, like I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna

1683
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:28,720
Speaker 1: take the kids to school, I'm gonna exercise for half

1684
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: an hour, I'm gonna work at nine to five, I'm

1685
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 1: gonna come home, i'm gonna have a beer, i'm gonna

1686
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 1: watch Game of Thrones, and i'm gonna go to bed.

1687
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,040
Speaker 1: And then I'm gonna repeat that the next day and

1688
01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: just do that in perpetuity. Um again, values neutral. If

1689
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 1: some people are content with that, all the power to them.

1690
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:49,240
Speaker 1: I can't be content doing that. So I'm all about unbalanced,

1691
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,479
Speaker 1: which for me is like finding what are these things

1692
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I really care about and then giving myself permission to

1693
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,440
Speaker 1: go all in on them, but with enough self awareness

1694
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 1: to know what I'm giving up as a result. In

1695
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 1: so long as I maintain that self awareness, what tends

1696
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:05,719
Speaker 1: to happen in my life is I have some seat,

1697
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 1: like some seasonality, and there's a season where I'm putting

1698
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,000
Speaker 1: writing above just about everything else. I mean, I'm a

1699
01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:13,920
Speaker 1: new parent. I have a fifteen month old, so now

1700
01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 1: he comes above everything else. But right there with that,

1701
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 1: like like um, you know, like and even now like

1702
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 1: there are times when I'm making a choice where it's like, wow,

1703
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:23,720
Speaker 1: like I should probably be playing with my kid, but

1704
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 1: like I really am in a writing groove. I'm gonna

1705
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:29,439
Speaker 1: finish this essay, but then tomorrow I'm gonna shift and

1706
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go all in. I'm being there for my

1707
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,800
Speaker 1: kid and I'm not going to be thinking about writing

1708
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 1: at all. Um. So the unbalanced life with self awareness

1709
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,280
Speaker 1: instead is about identifying what are the things that really

1710
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: matter to me, and then how can I make the

1711
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 1: trade offs between those things, um day to day, week

1712
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:49,360
Speaker 1: to week, month to month, and then over the course

1713
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:52,200
Speaker 1: of a year. Uh, A lot of really passionate people

1714
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 1: talk about they have seasons over the course of a year.

1715
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:58,200
Speaker 1: So there's a season for getting promoted or launching a business,

1716
01:25:58,520 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 1: or you know, really focusing on hunting or running a

1717
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 1: pr in the marathon, and then there's another season that

1718
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:08,960
Speaker 1: year where you put your professional pursuits in your hobbies

1719
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 1: behind that if your wife or your kids, and then

1720
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:12,840
Speaker 1: it's like that, then the season is being a great

1721
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 1: family member. But it's very different than trying to do

1722
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: all things great at the same time, because I think

1723
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 1: that's impossible. Yeah, and this this is perfectly literally applicable

1724
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:26,400
Speaker 1: to hunting. As there are federally mandated seasons when you

1725
01:26:26,439 --> 01:26:29,520
Speaker 1: can and can that hunt. So there's really easy boundaries

1726
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:31,840
Speaker 1: to to help you with some of this in in

1727
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 1: our hunting you know, pursuit. But but yeah, it's it's

1728
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: oftentimes comes back to the ability to identify when you're

1729
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: doing it. That's self awareness. And there's something you talked about,

1730
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: um you guys labeled as self distancing UM as a

1731
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,679
Speaker 1: way to help foster that self awareness to know when

1732
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 1: am I going all in and when it's okay? And

1733
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: when when do I need to be able to say,

1734
01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: you know what, mark this is what time you gotta

1735
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 1: pull back and be the only man right now or

1736
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:03,599
Speaker 1: whatever might be. Can you talk about what you meant

1737
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: by that and how to you know, develop that or

1738
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 1: foster that self awareness for sure. So so when you're

1739
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: really passionate about something, you tend to lose self awareness UM.

1740
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: And the best way to get it back is like ironically,

1741
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 1: to get far outside of yourself. Uh. There's some fascinating

1742
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:23,640
Speaker 1: research that we cover in in the book in the

1743
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:27,960
Speaker 1: Passion Paradox on the linkage between really passionate people and

1744
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 1: people suffering from eating disorders. So you might think like,

1745
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 1: what the heck do these two things have in common?

1746
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:36,439
Speaker 1: It turns out a lot. When someone with an eating

1747
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 1: disorder looks in the mirror, they don't see somebody that

1748
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 1: is like gaunt and skinny, they see someone that is fat.

1749
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 1: When someone that is in the throes of a passion

1750
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 1: evaluates their life, they don't see everything else that they're sacrificing.

1751
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 1: They only see that they're not putting enough into their passion.

1752
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 1: So when you're caught up in that storm, you've got

1753
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 1: to be able to step outside of it. And that's

1754
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 1: what we mean by self distancing. It's about getting outside

1755
01:28:05,320 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 1: of the inertia in the momentum of your passion, so

1756
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:11,120
Speaker 1: that you know, rather than being in the horror movie,

1757
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 1: you're watching the horror movie, and when you're in the

1758
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 1: horror movie, you're just like there's no time to evaluate,

1759
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 1: like you're just in it, Whereas when you're in the

1760
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 1: movie theater, you might be watching a slow moving train wreck.

1761
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:23,800
Speaker 1: But then you can realize it's a slow moving train wreck.

1762
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 1: So then the question is, well, how do you create

1763
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 1: this distance? Uh, there are a few ways that are

1764
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:31,280
Speaker 1: that are proven in the research that really help with

1765
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 1: this um. One way is a mindfulness meditation practice. So

1766
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 1: just to sit for ten to thirty minutes a day

1767
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:43,600
Speaker 1: and meditate, And the goal of meditation is not to

1768
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:46,760
Speaker 1: feel relaxed or enter like this woo woo feel good land.

1769
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 1: Meditation actually often sucks because what happens is the stuff

1770
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 1: that you're oppressing comes up over and over again. And

1771
01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,080
Speaker 1: if when you meditate, what's coming up over and over

1772
01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 1: again is Wow, I should be spending more time with

1773
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 1: my family, or wow, like I'm letting my career go

1774
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 1: because of this hobby, then that that's probably a pretty

1775
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,640
Speaker 1: good sign to pay attention to to that and like,

1776
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,040
Speaker 1: maybe that will help give you some of that self

1777
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 1: awareness to to to make different choices. Another great way

1778
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:17,280
Speaker 1: to get self awareness is to spend a day in

1779
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,599
Speaker 1: nature with no goal. So don't don't spend a day

1780
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 1: in nature hunting, just go on a day hike all

1781
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: alone and just taking the beauty of nature. Uh. There's

1782
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:28,200
Speaker 1: something about being in the natural world that gives us

1783
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 1: perspective and reminds us how small our lives are, and

1784
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 1: um kind of puts that back in perspective and then

1785
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:38,640
Speaker 1: helps us see our lives outside of the inertia of

1786
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 1: that passion. And then my favorite way to do this

1787
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,200
Speaker 1: is I think the hardest, and that is uh to

1788
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:48,439
Speaker 1: read memoirs or watched like movies about people that are

1789
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 1: dying or have died, um, reflecting on death and mortality.

1790
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 1: It's kind of shitty and hard, but nothing helps you

1791
01:29:58,200 --> 01:30:00,720
Speaker 1: realize what actually matters to you and what you want

1792
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 1: to spend your time on. Most then reflecting on death

1793
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:08,839
Speaker 1: and mortality. I've never met someone that read a beautiful

1794
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:12,320
Speaker 1: memoir of someone describing the dying process and then said

1795
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:14,600
Speaker 1: I need to spend more time on social media and

1796
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 1: need to spend more time on message boards, like it

1797
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:20,680
Speaker 1: never happens. But if we don't expose ourselves to that,

1798
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 1: it's really easy to get sucked into the momentum and

1799
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:26,719
Speaker 1: inertia and spend tons of times on message boards, especially

1800
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:30,639
Speaker 1: if the message board is something we're passionate about. Yeah,

1801
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:33,719
Speaker 1: that's a very good point. Um. You know another one

1802
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: that you guys had mentioned in there, which I found

1803
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 1: could work for me. I thought was the idea of

1804
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 1: of pretend like you are giving a friend advice. So yeah,

1805
01:30:45,160 --> 01:30:47,320
Speaker 1: that's a good one. So I can see this working

1806
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 1: from me, because you know it'll be the middle hunting season,

1807
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 1: and I'm always struggling with this um inner dialogue where

1808
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:57,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, gosh, I have this goal. I'm trying to

1809
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:01,040
Speaker 1: get a deer, and I have you know, it's gonna take,

1810
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:03,920
Speaker 1: you know, so many days of effort, so many different hunts.

1811
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:05,639
Speaker 1: There's all this work I've put into it all through

1812
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 1: the winter and the spring and the summer. Now it's fall.

1813
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 1: I've got so much invested, um, and this is the

1814
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,400
Speaker 1: weekend to do it. There's great weather, there's great conditions.

1815
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,599
Speaker 1: I should be out there. Um. But then I'm also thinking,

1816
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 1: but you hunted all the last four or five days,

1817
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:23,800
Speaker 1: and your your son, You're I have a fifteen month

1818
01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:26,439
Speaker 1: or say I think sixteen month old son, how to um?

1819
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: And he, you know, he's being really tough. And your

1820
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:31,960
Speaker 1: wife's struggling because she hasn't really getting work done, and

1821
01:31:31,960 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 1: like all these different things, and I'm thinking, well, what

1822
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 1: do I what should I be doing now? Should I

1823
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 1: keep pushing towards this thing? Or do I need to

1824
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:42,520
Speaker 1: take the weekend off and just be a good dad? Um?

1825
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: And sometimes maybe that that exact scenario, but various scenarios

1826
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 1: I'll find myself giving into the inertia of the passion,

1827
01:31:51,720 --> 01:31:54,160
Speaker 1: and right, I want to do this thing. It's I

1828
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:56,680
Speaker 1: enjoy it so much. The goal is so important to

1829
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,479
Speaker 1: me that I'm just gonna go do it. Um. But

1830
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:03,519
Speaker 1: if a friend told me that exact same scenares said, Hey,

1831
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:05,240
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about going home in this weekend, but I

1832
01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: was going the last five days and so on and

1833
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:10,000
Speaker 1: so forth, I probably would very quickly say, you know what, man,

1834
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 1: you probably need to give your wife and sons sometime.

1835
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:16,320
Speaker 1: It's so much easier when you pretend like you're giving

1836
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:19,320
Speaker 1: advice to your friend. And but I would have never

1837
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:21,880
Speaker 1: maybe been able to say that about myself. Right, Yeah,

1838
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:24,880
Speaker 1: that's like that's the self distancing for sure, because you

1839
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 1: you get outside of yourself. Um. And it's not just

1840
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 1: like about these big things like family. An example for me,

1841
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 1: and maybe this is applicable in your world, Maybe not

1842
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 1: is Um. I do a lot of strength and conditioning training,

1843
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 1: and I'll often try to train through injuries that I

1844
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 1: shouldn't and I'll literally be like on the way out

1845
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 1: the door to the gym, hobbling on like a strained

1846
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:50,040
Speaker 1: quadrisap and I'm like, if any of my training buddies

1847
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 1: told me that they've got a badly strained quadrisap and

1848
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:55,559
Speaker 1: they're gonna just get that get that day of front

1849
01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 1: squats in. I'd be like, dude, like, nothing's gonna happen

1850
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:01,479
Speaker 1: if you don't train to like rest one day now

1851
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,479
Speaker 1: so you're not injured for one month later and then

1852
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 1: I turn around and go home. But if I don't

1853
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:08,439
Speaker 1: give that advice to a friend, I'm gonna go to

1854
01:33:08,479 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: the gym and I'm gonna like mess up my leg

1855
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:13,160
Speaker 1: even more. Um. So it can be helpful and even

1856
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:16,560
Speaker 1: smaller scale decision making. Yeah, it's And I feel that

1857
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 1: this is a universal principle, right, Like I think many

1858
01:33:19,720 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: times we are really good at pointing out flaws and

1859
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: other people, but the same flaw we might have, and

1860
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 1: it's it's it's invisible to us. Like self awareness is

1861
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:29,000
Speaker 1: not something that I think comes easily to a lot

1862
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:35,080
Speaker 1: of folks. Um. It almost requires a thoughtful development of it,

1863
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:37,240
Speaker 1: Like we have to we have to choose to say,

1864
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to try to become a

1865
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,520
Speaker 1: little bit better at this because it's an important thing. Um. Otherwise,

1866
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:44,320
Speaker 1: like all these other things going on in our mind

1867
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:47,000
Speaker 1: make it really easy to try to kind of plaster

1868
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 1: over the flaws and plaster over the cognitive dissonance that

1869
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:52,600
Speaker 1: makes us not feel so good because it's it's a

1870
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:55,080
Speaker 1: lot easier to ignore it, right Yeah, yep, yep, I mean,

1871
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:56,720
Speaker 1: and that's the crux of it, Like this is this

1872
01:33:56,800 --> 01:34:01,360
Speaker 1: is the book that um And like again, I wrote

1873
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:03,760
Speaker 1: this book for myself, not because I have this figured out,

1874
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:06,880
Speaker 1: but to to to figure things out. It's a pretty

1875
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:09,439
Speaker 1: It was uncomfortable writing because I saw a lot of

1876
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:12,160
Speaker 1: myself in this and and I've gotten feedback from readers

1877
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,040
Speaker 1: that it's like a very uncomfortable read because it makes

1878
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 1: you look in the mirror and like realize some parts

1879
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,559
Speaker 1: of yourself that aren't so pretty. But it's so freaking

1880
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 1: important because if you just repress that or you just

1881
01:34:23,479 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 1: ignore it, then that cognitive dissonance builds and builds until

1882
01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:29,160
Speaker 1: it blows up in your face. Versus if you can

1883
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 1: confront that stuff and not judge yourself and be like, yeah,

1884
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: I have an ego because I'm a human and like, yeah,

1885
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:36,639
Speaker 1: there are some days I'd rather hunt than be a parent,

1886
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 1: not because I'm a terrible parent, but because I'm passionate

1887
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 1: and kind of look at these things non judgmentally, but

1888
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:44,400
Speaker 1: then really dive into them, uh and do some of

1889
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,719
Speaker 1: that like self exploration and work. I think, like again,

1890
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 1: it's the difference of walking that fine line of being

1891
01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 1: passionate and having it be super productive and energizing versus

1892
01:34:54,360 --> 01:34:56,479
Speaker 1: getting into a spot where it blows up on you

1893
01:34:56,600 --> 01:34:59,360
Speaker 1: later on. Yeah. Yeah, very true, which is probably pretty

1894
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 1: easy to do. Um, what what have we missed? Like?

1895
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:08,200
Speaker 1: Are there any other foundational principles or major takeaways that

1896
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:10,880
Speaker 1: you know now that you've heard a little bit from

1897
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:13,360
Speaker 1: me as far as the things that that I deal

1898
01:35:13,439 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 1: with and other hunters might be dealing with along these lines.

1899
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:18,320
Speaker 1: Is there any other concept or idea that we haven't

1900
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:20,040
Speaker 1: touched on yet that you'd want to make sure that

1901
01:35:20,080 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 1: we we left folks with. I think the the only

1902
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:26,120
Speaker 1: other one is um And this has been such a good, far,

1903
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:29,360
Speaker 1: far ranging conversation. UM, So I think we've covered a lot.

1904
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:33,320
Speaker 1: I think the only other thing worth mentioning is around

1905
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 1: transitioning and retirement and how hard that can be. UM

1906
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 1: In retirement can be forced sometimes by injury or by age. Uh.

1907
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:47,880
Speaker 1: And if it's not retirement, just declining performance. So I

1908
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,080
Speaker 1: assume hunting is like other sports where at a certain

1909
01:35:51,120 --> 01:35:54,639
Speaker 1: age it's going to be really hard physically to keep

1910
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:58,680
Speaker 1: on having new like new prs, new breakthrough performances. So

1911
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 1: how do you cope with declining and eventually not being

1912
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:06,400
Speaker 1: able to do the thing that you love? Uh and

1913
01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:09,160
Speaker 1: and that's super hard again, It's one of these paradoxes

1914
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:11,719
Speaker 1: of passion is the more passionate you are about something,

1915
01:36:12,200 --> 01:36:14,600
Speaker 1: the more likely you are to have depression when it

1916
01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 1: becomes time to move on. Um And, I think the

1917
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:20,439
Speaker 1: biggest takeaway there is when you are in one of

1918
01:36:20,479 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 1: those transition or or age related declined periods, is to

1919
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:29,080
Speaker 1: surround yourself with other people they have been through that

1920
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: before and use them as a support system and then

1921
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:35,040
Speaker 1: find other ways in other ways to stay involved in

1922
01:36:35,040 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 1: the sport. So maybe physically you can no longer go

1923
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 1: out and spend you know, weekends or weeks on backpacking

1924
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,760
Speaker 1: trips or get onto the back country, but maybe now

1925
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:46,759
Speaker 1: you mentor people, or maybe you write for a hunting

1926
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:51,080
Speaker 1: publication or you start a blog. Um. So like, just

1927
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:54,040
Speaker 1: find other ways to stay involved in the sport and

1928
01:36:54,040 --> 01:36:56,439
Speaker 1: in the community. Because so many people they think that

1929
01:36:56,479 --> 01:36:59,160
Speaker 1: what they love is hunting, but what they actually love

1930
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:02,519
Speaker 1: is the community. Yeah, that's interesting to bring that up

1931
01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:05,479
Speaker 1: because there's this kind of idea and this probably applies

1932
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:07,640
Speaker 1: to a lot of things, but I know that in

1933
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:10,639
Speaker 1: the hunting world there's and I'm gonna I'm gonna forget

1934
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 1: a step here, but people often talk about these like

1935
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:16,559
Speaker 1: five phases of a hunting life. Like when you first

1936
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,360
Speaker 1: get into it, you're just like trying to figure it out.

1937
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:22,360
Speaker 1: You're just trying to figure out how to get your

1938
01:37:22,400 --> 01:37:24,759
Speaker 1: first deer or whatever. And then in your next stage,

1939
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 1: you you figure it out, and then usually it's just

1940
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:29,760
Speaker 1: wanting to have, you know, a lot of success. So

1941
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:31,760
Speaker 1: people want to go out hunt a bunch and have

1942
01:37:31,800 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 1: a lot of success with it. And then there's this

1943
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 1: next phase where they figured out how to have a

1944
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:38,880
Speaker 1: lot of success, and now it's trying to add a

1945
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:41,479
Speaker 1: different layer of challenge. So instead of trying to go

1946
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,479
Speaker 1: out there and you know, get a bunch of ducks

1947
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:47,160
Speaker 1: or whatever, get you know, numerous deer, it's I'm gonna

1948
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:51,400
Speaker 1: hold out for the oldest, most rare um you know,

1949
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 1: old elk or whatever it might be, because that's the

1950
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:56,240
Speaker 1: greatest challenge. Will push me as far as I could

1951
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:58,559
Speaker 1: possibly be pushed to be the best hunter possibly could be,

1952
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:02,400
Speaker 1: but then eventually kind of come to realize what you

1953
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 1: just said that very you know, all these things maybe

1954
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:07,280
Speaker 1: aren't what really mattered in the in the first place,

1955
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 1: and they start realizing that they just want to mentor

1956
01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:12,920
Speaker 1: a new hunter helps someone get into it, helps someone

1957
01:38:12,960 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 1: else experience what they've come to enjoy so much, and

1958
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:17,559
Speaker 1: eventually they don't even they just want to be out

1959
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:21,080
Speaker 1: in nature with the people that they love. Um. So

1960
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:23,320
Speaker 1: it's this kind of trajectory kind of similar to that

1961
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:26,720
Speaker 1: that you described in which you you go through these

1962
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:29,680
Speaker 1: different levels of passion and you come to find that

1963
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:31,920
Speaker 1: it was not the outcome, but the process in the

1964
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,760
Speaker 1: end that was what mattered most. And I guess that

1965
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,680
Speaker 1: study of mortality that you talked about a second ago,

1966
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:41,120
Speaker 1: that's a good way to kind of fast forward that

1967
01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 1: mindset to remember that what happens if you're going to

1968
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: die tomorrow, Do you care about getting that buck, do

1969
01:38:47,320 --> 01:38:50,080
Speaker 1: you care about somebody in that mountain? Or what what

1970
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:53,560
Speaker 1: really matters maybe is spending time with your son outside

1971
01:38:53,640 --> 01:38:56,040
Speaker 1: doing it. You know, yep, And that's going to change

1972
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:58,160
Speaker 1: at different points in your life, like when you're a

1973
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:00,479
Speaker 1: young gun and you're twenty four just getting into it,

1974
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,760
Speaker 1: Like the answer might be summoning that mountain, and then

1975
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:05,760
Speaker 1: when you're thirty five with a kid, it might be

1976
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,080
Speaker 1: taking your kid out there, and then when you're sixty

1977
01:39:08,200 --> 01:39:10,639
Speaker 1: it might actually be like sipping on bourbon, just having

1978
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:13,679
Speaker 1: a good time. So, like I mean, these things, these

1979
01:39:13,680 --> 01:39:15,640
Speaker 1: things change over the course of a life. So I

1980
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:17,839
Speaker 1: think the key thing is to just keep on forcing

1981
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:21,599
Speaker 1: that that self awareness and that honest reflection. Yeah, I think, uh,

1982
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:23,920
Speaker 1: I think that's so important. And it's easy to just

1983
01:39:23,960 --> 01:39:26,040
Speaker 1: getting caught in the inertia. It's so easy just to

1984
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:28,840
Speaker 1: do the thing you do, um, to do what feels good,

1985
01:39:29,360 --> 01:39:32,599
Speaker 1: and we can very quickly lose sight of of what

1986
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:35,599
Speaker 1: we've actually done. So I think having conversations like this

1987
01:39:35,640 --> 01:39:40,679
Speaker 1: and reading books like The Passion paradox Um just really, really,

1988
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:43,640
Speaker 1: really important. So I appreciate you taking the time to

1989
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:46,439
Speaker 1: write these books, to share these ideas and and to

1990
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 1: chat with me about it. So thank you, Bred, Thank

1991
01:39:49,960 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 1: you Mark. I really enjoyed the conversation. Yeah, And for

1992
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:56,600
Speaker 1: people that want to learn more about all these ideas, um,

1993
01:39:56,720 --> 01:39:58,559
Speaker 1: can you can you just give us quick rundown where

1994
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:00,639
Speaker 1: they can learn more about the books you're self where

1995
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:02,680
Speaker 1: they can connect with you. Yeah, for sure. So the

1996
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 1: easiest place is probably just my website, which is www

1997
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:10,880
Speaker 1: dot Brad Stallberg dot com uh or Twitter where I'm

1998
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:15,320
Speaker 1: at b Stallberg And um, the books are on Amazon

1999
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:17,439
Speaker 1: in bookstores. I mean, if you just google my name

2000
01:40:17,439 --> 01:40:19,799
Speaker 1: in the books, you can get them pretty much anywhere

2001
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:22,479
Speaker 1: you can get books. Perfect, and you you write a

2002
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:26,360
Speaker 1: pretty pretty frequent column for Outside too, right, Yeah, so

2003
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:29,480
Speaker 1: I've I've got a twice a month column for Outside.

2004
01:40:29,680 --> 01:40:33,080
Speaker 1: Uh that's titled do it Better? And I joke that

2005
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 1: as long as as long as it's a little bit

2006
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:37,639
Speaker 1: better versus do it worse than I'm on I'm on brand,

2007
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:40,599
Speaker 1: but I got I got a poke fund it myself.

2008
01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I write about performance and well being

2009
01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:46,840
Speaker 1: for Outside. Awesome. Well, everything I've read from you so

2010
01:40:46,920 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 1: far has just been really helpful. These concepts are are

2011
01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:53,960
Speaker 1: fascinating and uh and I appreciate sharing. So thanks Brad,

2012
01:40:54,160 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 1: and uh, let's chet again someday soon. All right? Sounds good?

2013
01:40:57,200 --> 01:41:02,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, Mark? All right, and that is a rap.

2014
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:04,479
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did.

2015
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:09,000
Speaker 1: Um ma'am. I'm just digging these concepts, these different ways

2016
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 1: we can apply lessons from outside the hunting world into

2017
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:15,080
Speaker 1: what we do. I think there's a lot a lot

2018
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 1: to be learned from these other fields and my plans

2019
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 1: to continue doing it. So hopefully we're gonna have some

2020
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:21,840
Speaker 1: more episodes like this in the future. I hope you

2021
01:41:21,880 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 1: will tune in for those. If you enjoyed this, definitely

2022
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,479
Speaker 1: check out Brad's books. Highly recommend them. They're they're easy

2023
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:30,320
Speaker 1: to read. I like the way they have it organized.

2024
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:33,160
Speaker 1: They've got little call outs of key quotes and key

2025
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:36,360
Speaker 1: concepts to make it make it easy to to harness

2026
01:41:36,400 --> 01:41:39,920
Speaker 1: and to focus on the very most important takeaways and uh,

2027
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:41,920
Speaker 1: as you heard in the conversation, there's a lot to

2028
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:44,320
Speaker 1: dive into, So check those out on Amazon or wherever

2029
01:41:44,360 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 1: you want to head to and otherwise. I'm hoping that

2030
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:50,800
Speaker 1: you have a great week a great weekend, hopefully enjoy

2031
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:56,719
Speaker 1: some time outside and until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.