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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is John Drastic, otherwise known as five

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Speaker 1: for Fighting. John. Why five for Fighting?

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Speaker 2: Well? When EMI Records back in the day wanted to

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Speaker 2: launch my record, it was the age of lilleth Fair

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Speaker 2: boy band's grunge music. The male singer songwriter was dead

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Speaker 2: and they said, John, we need a band name. As

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Speaker 2: a hockey fan, I had just been to a hockey

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Speaker 2: game and there are a couple of fights by a

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Speaker 2: guy named Marty McSorley, who was Wayne Gretzky's bodyguard. And

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Speaker 2: in hockey, of course, if you get in a fight,

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Speaker 2: you get five minutes for fighting a penalty. And so

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Speaker 2: when the record company said we need a band name,

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Speaker 2: I sarcastically said, well, how about five for Fighting, expecting

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Speaker 2: them to hate it, Bob, and of course I said,

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Speaker 2: we love it, and here I am twenty years later.

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Speaker 2: Five for Fighting sounds like I should be opening for Metallica.

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Speaker 2: But I do get a hockey ticket whenever I tend

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Speaker 2: to want one, so it has had some fringe benefits.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we have the example of Johnny Cougar, John Mellen

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Speaker 1: camp Or ultimately evolved into using his own name. Is

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Speaker 1: this something that you would like to achieve?

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Speaker 2: I think it's way too late for that, And, you know,

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Speaker 2: to be honest with you, it's been kind of nice

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Speaker 2: because it's really been about the music. There's certainly, I

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Speaker 2: think a disconnect between some of the songs and the

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Speaker 2: five for Fighting brand and the fact that it's not

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Speaker 2: a band, it's a guy. It probably cost the record

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Speaker 2: company a million records, but it's allowed me to kind

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Speaker 2: of just kind of slip under the radar, and frankly,

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Speaker 2: as a huge sports fan, I've also been able to

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Speaker 2: play you know, Monday night football, all Star games, you know,

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Speaker 2: outdoor hockey games, you know baseball, you know, championship games.

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Speaker 2: And that doesn't happen with John and Rassic. I think

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Speaker 2: Fire for Fighting sounds a little more, you know, you know, cliche,

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Speaker 2: to give you some some umph to it. So I'll

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Speaker 2: take the name and we'll let someone else sell the records.

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Speaker 1: Okay, recently you performed in Israel. How did that happen?

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Speaker 2: Boy? It's a long story, really, well tell it.

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Speaker 1: We're all here.

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Speaker 2: It really started a few years ago. I wrote a

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Speaker 2: song about the withdrawal from Afghanistan, a song called Blood

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Speaker 2: in my Hands. It was very critical of the withdrawal,

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Speaker 2: and it resonated with our Afghan veterans who felt gutted,

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Speaker 2: shamed that we abandoned their allies that we swore to protect,

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Speaker 2: and it became resonant with many folks in the military

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Speaker 2: and internationally. I ended up getting emails from people trapped

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Speaker 2: in Afghanistan to the point where I were working with

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Speaker 2: many of these NGOs evacuating people and getting people out.

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Speaker 2: One called Save our Allies got sixteen thousand people out

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Speaker 2: in nine days. And I saw the value of music

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Speaker 2: in that effort. And then I said, I hope I

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Speaker 2: never have to do this again. Well, then Ukraine comes

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Speaker 2: putin invade Ukraine. I write a song called come one Man,

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Speaker 2: Save the World, kind of to stand for the Ukrainian people.

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Speaker 2: I go to Ukraine. I film a song with Ukrainian

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Speaker 2: orchestra and a blown up airport, and again that song

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Speaker 2: resonates in a way that I think was significant, and

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Speaker 2: I was, Okay, God, I hope I never have to

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Speaker 2: do this again. And then October seventh, I think, like

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Speaker 2: all of us, we were horrified, we were disgusted, we

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Speaker 2: were angry. Reminded me a lot of nine to eleven.

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Speaker 2: The atrocity has seen some of the images we just

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Speaker 2: can never have imagined. But what really got me was

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Speaker 2: the cultural aftermath, the collapse of so many of our

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Speaker 2: moral institutions. The mayor of New York City gave a speech,

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Speaker 2: I think it was October ninth, and the speech was basically,

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Speaker 2: something's really broken in America when we have thousands of

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Speaker 2: people in Times Square celebrating the raping of women, the

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Speaker 2: beheading of babies, the killing of children in front of

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Speaker 2: their parents, uploading it to Facebook for the world to see,

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Speaker 2: and that people are out there celebrating that something's really broken.

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Speaker 2: And so I had this sense of a song is there?

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Speaker 2: A song is there? And then we saw the media

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Speaker 2: very quickly become Hamas propagandists. Of course, we saw our

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Speaker 2: college campuses inflamed. We saw the Rashida Talibs of the

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Speaker 2: world basically spouting Hamas propaganda. Couldn't even say that beheadings

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Speaker 2: of babies were bad. And so I wrote the song

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Speaker 2: okay with the theme were not Okay? And I made

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Speaker 2: a video to it and it was it's just a

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Speaker 2: documentary video. It was just images from October seventh, but

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Speaker 2: it was more than that. Over the lyrics Evils on

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Speaker 2: the march, I had putin next to Hamas, next to

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Speaker 2: Iran Frankly, next to the un who has also been

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Speaker 2: an ally of Hamas in this and that video went

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Speaker 2: viral and Israel ended up sharing it on their social media.

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Speaker 2: And when that happened, I got a very small sense

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Speaker 2: of what it's like to be Jewish. I'm not Jewish.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to be Jewish to condemn Hamas, you

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Speaker 2: just have to be saying. But when Israel shared that video,

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Speaker 2: I experienced the vitriol. I experience the death threats. I

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Speaker 2: experienced what Jewish people are going through every day. And

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Speaker 2: when that happened, I got connected with many of the

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Speaker 2: Jewish organizations Stand with Us, the American Jewish Committee, the Adel,

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Speaker 2: and I started speaking to some college groups and I

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Speaker 2: started talking about this and playing my song, and it

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Speaker 2: really I got thousands of emails from people in Israel,

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Speaker 2: thousands of emails from Jewish people around the world, and

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Speaker 2: I started doing press and media. And when I was

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Speaker 2: out on my tour last month, I had a week

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Speaker 2: off and I'd been asked by folks to go to Israel,

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Speaker 2: so I did. I went to Israel initially to meet

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Speaker 2: with Israeli artists because of course the American and international

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Speaker 2: artists have been deathly silent on Israel and October seventh,

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Speaker 2: so I was working with them on some projects. I

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Speaker 2: met with some troops. I talked to some hostage families,

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Speaker 2: which was just as you can imagine excruciating. But I

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Speaker 2: wasn't planning on this. But on Friday, they said, you know,

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Speaker 2: we have this hostage rally in Hostage Square every Saturday night.

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Speaker 2: They've been doing it since October seventh. Hostage family speak,

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Speaker 2: thousands of people come, it's aired on television. It's very

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Speaker 2: as you can imagine, moving, sad experience. And they asked

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Speaker 2: me to play my song Superman, and they asked me

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Speaker 2: to play this song Okay, which I did. It was

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Speaker 2: the most surreal experience I could tell you about. I've

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Speaker 2: never had a Gigbob where before the gig there's an announcement

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Speaker 2: that says an event of missile attack, please lay down,

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Speaker 2: put your hands over your head. And the crazy thing

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Speaker 2: was nobody left, not one Israeli left. I played my songs,

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Speaker 2: I cried with the hostage families. Three hours later I

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Speaker 2: ran launched their first drones their attack on Israel. So

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Speaker 2: quite a interesting twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack all this because from when you started

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Speaker 1: in the last century, the game is completely changed. So Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: you are motivated to write a song. Today, as we speak,

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Speaker 1: two rappers are having a rap war. Most people have

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Speaker 1: never even heard these songs, might even have heard the

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Speaker 1: name of the acts. So you write a song, how

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Speaker 1: do you get it heard in the twenty first century

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Speaker 1: internet streaming world.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question, because, of course we sent Blood

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Speaker 2: on My Hands to four hundred music media outlets. One

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Speaker 2: of them covered it because it did not fit their

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Speaker 2: political worldview. So I go on television, I go on

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Speaker 2: Fox News, I go on sometimes CNN. I go on podcasts,

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Speaker 2: but went a little bit slower.

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Speaker 1: One thing to be on podcasts with people like me.

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Speaker 1: It's another thing to be on CNN in Fox Fox

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Speaker 1: you know, as you say, might align with the view

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Speaker 1: of the song.

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Speaker 2: How did that happen? People saw it, People saw it,

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Speaker 2: Senators started tweeting it. I have some relationships in media

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Speaker 2: and they started calling and asking me to come on.

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Speaker 2: And it was very interesting because Blood on my Hands,

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Speaker 2: because it was critical of the administration, was kind of

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Speaker 2: embraced by the right and shunned by the left, which

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Speaker 2: includes the music press. My Ukraine song was different. It

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Speaker 2: actually debuted on Good Morning America the video that we shot,

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Speaker 2: and many of the mainstream media basically accepted that song

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Speaker 2: and appreciated that song because that's a song that kind

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Speaker 2: of appeals more to the left, and frankly, some on

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Speaker 2: the right did not like that song. So I have

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Speaker 2: relationships in the media. It's a fascinating thing that, you know,

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Speaker 2: you being kind of an icon on this business, to

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Speaker 2: have three songs that have had millions of impressions and

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Speaker 2: around the world without once spin on the radio. So

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Speaker 2: you know, I think the messages are resonating, frankly, because

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Speaker 2: very few artists are even talking about the subjects.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on to the Ukraine from Afghanistan. How

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Speaker 1: long after the attack did you write and go on

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Speaker 1: Good Morning America?

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Speaker 2: So basically I wrote the song literally in twenty four hours,

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Speaker 2: because as you remember, at the outset of the war,

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Speaker 2: the mercenaries were hunting Zelenski. We didn't think he even

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Speaker 2: came out and said I probably won't be alive at

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Speaker 2: the end of the week, So I wrote can One

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Speaker 2: Man Save of the World? I recorded it, I put

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Speaker 2: it out piano vocal, which I've never done, expecting him

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Speaker 2: to basically not survive, but of course he did, and

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Speaker 2: the song resonated. And the plan really was to go

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Speaker 2: to Poland because Poland has been so amazing taking four

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Speaker 2: million refugees, so I wanted to shine the light on Poland.

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Speaker 2: So I reached out to a friend who had relationships

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Speaker 2: in Poland and she said, this is a great idea,

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Speaker 2: let me call you back. And a few weeks later

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Speaker 2: she called me back and said, how would you like

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Speaker 2: to go to Ukraine and perform the song with the

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Speaker 2: Ukrainian Orchestra? And this is not a woman who jokes around.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, do they even exist? Does the orchestra exist?

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Speaker 2: And she said, they're scattered around Ukraine. We can get

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Speaker 2: them into ki for two days. A million things have

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Speaker 2: to happen, but be prepared, you know, right, an arrangement.

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Speaker 2: So I was driving around the country touring with my

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Speaker 2: string quartet and in the back of the van we

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Speaker 2: were scoring out the an orchestra arrangement for can One

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Speaker 2: Man Save the World? And then my last show, I

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Speaker 2: got an email with a plane ticket to Krakau the

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Speaker 2: next morning. I had a very long talk with my

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Speaker 2: wife that night, but she let me go and two

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Speaker 2: days later, after playing trains and automobiles getting to Kiev,

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Speaker 2: we were allowed to play and what is hollow ground

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Speaker 2: in Ukraine. Typically when you go to Ukraine you play

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Speaker 2: in the subways because when Russia launches missiles and the

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Speaker 2: air raids go off, everybody runs in the subways. But

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Speaker 2: we were able to perform at the Antonoff Airport, which

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Speaker 2: basically is the hang or for the symbol of Ukrainian independence,

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Speaker 2: which is an airplane. It's called the Maria. It's the

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Speaker 2: largest cargo plane in the world. It's the symbol that's

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Speaker 2: on their army patch. And at the outset of the war,

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Speaker 2: Putin sent his troops to the Antonoff Airport and blew

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Speaker 2: it up. He basically blew the nose cone off, so

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Speaker 2: it's this wreckage of a plane. And we were able

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Speaker 2: to put the orchestra and myself in front of this

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Speaker 2: plane and perform. And a little antidote that really kind

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Speaker 2: of brought it home for me. As we were running takes,

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Speaker 2: I noticed that out of the corner of my eye

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Speaker 2: an entourage of military folks coming over. It turned out

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Speaker 2: it was the general who had approved us shooting there.

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Speaker 2: He's kind of their schwartz cough. He's kind of very

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Speaker 2: well known. He's the face of the war. And through

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Speaker 2: a translator, he said, you know, thank you for coming.

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Speaker 2: You know, President Zelensky's glad you're here. And then he

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Speaker 2: said something I'll never forget. He said, let me hear

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Speaker 2: the song. And you could see the orchestra kind of

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Speaker 2: sit up in their seats and because very emotional, and

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Speaker 2: they started playing with this vigor and passion. What I

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Speaker 2: found out later is every member of that orchestra had

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Speaker 2: either had a family member killed, missing, or on the

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Speaker 2: front lines. So to play this song in front of

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Speaker 2: this general was a big deal for them. And if

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Speaker 2: you see the Kimbo Man Say of the World video,

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Speaker 2: this is the take. And at the end of the performance,

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Speaker 2: I was in tears. Some of his Rambo guards were

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Speaker 2: like putting on stunglasses because they were in tears. And

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Speaker 2: there was this silence that probably was four or five

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Speaker 2: seconds but felt like a week. But you could really

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Speaker 2: feel the weight of that moment, these people fighting for

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Speaker 2: their survival. The seventy two year old violin player teaching

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Speaker 2: me curse words to yell at Putin. And I realized

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Speaker 2: it later, Bob, that they didn't know any of the words,

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Speaker 2: they didn't know the lyrics. It was just music, the

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Speaker 2: universal nature of music that brought us together and were

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Speaker 2: able to have this American from thousands of miles away

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Speaker 2: singing with these people under siege. And I wish every

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Speaker 2: American could have stood in my shoes. I think we

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Speaker 2: would have a different sense of the of how fortunate

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Speaker 2: we are to have the freedoms we do have.

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Speaker 1: Okay, one of the obvious questions you mentioned your wife

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Speaker 1: in discussing whether you could go, did you have any

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Speaker 1: sense of fear there?

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Speaker 2: I did. I did. I wrote letters to my family.

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Speaker 2: They didn't even know it in case I didn't come back.

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Speaker 2: I mean, certainly, you know the odds are with you

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Speaker 2: when you go, but it is a war zone and

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Speaker 2: people are getting killed, and unlike Israel, there was no

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Speaker 2: iron dome to protect us. So yeah, I didn't sleep

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Speaker 2: much there. When we finally got back to Poland after

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Speaker 2: five days, I think I slept for thirty hours. Because

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Speaker 2: you're always anxious and you're scared and you also get

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Speaker 2: a sense of the fortitude of the Ukrainian people, of

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Speaker 2: Israeli people who basically every day they have to ask

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Speaker 2: is this my last day? Because they're being attacked relentlessly.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, I was certainly anxious. We had one air

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Speaker 2: raid that kind of drove us to the basements. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a war zone. I mean, I'm human, and I

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Speaker 2: think if you're not a little scared, something's probably wrong

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Speaker 2: with you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you took a stance with Afghanistan. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: we pulled out. Ukrainian war is still going on. Was

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Speaker 1: just recently the government said we're going to give funds

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Speaker 1: and weapons to Ukraine. Having been there, being a student

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Speaker 1: of the situation, what would you tell people about the

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Speaker 1: war in Ukraine?

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Speaker 2: I would say that I understand. Also people say, well,

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Speaker 2: are we waste the money? Is their corruption? There is?

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Speaker 2: There's corruption there. Frankly, if you want to get something done,

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Speaker 2: it's probably easier to do it with the mob than

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Speaker 2: the government. At the same time, the cost I think

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Speaker 2: of abandoning Ukraine to Putin could be catastrophic. Certainly he

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Speaker 2: would not stop there, and certainly if he moves into Poland,

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Speaker 2: it's a NATO country, and then we have American soldiers

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Speaker 2: fighting this war, so I think we have to stop him. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: I think the administration has been giving just enough to

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Speaker 2: Ukraine to kind of maybe not have them lose right now.

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Speaker 2: But the fact that I think many of our republicans,

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Speaker 2: some of my I rode with some Republicans on a

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Speaker 2: train from Leviv to Kiev and some of them were

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Speaker 2: not open to funding Ukraine for political reasons. I thought

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Speaker 2: that was a huge mistake, and I'm very glad that

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Speaker 2: the House came to their senses and funded Ukraine. There

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Speaker 2: is waste, and we need to have people on the ground,

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Speaker 2: But a lot of the expense that those funding goes

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Speaker 2: to is to American companies actually making warheads, making missiles,

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Speaker 2: making military supplies for Ukraine. So it just doesn't they

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Speaker 2: don't write a check for sixty billion dollars to Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: But I understand that because I did see the waste,

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Speaker 2: and I think if we had a little more savvy

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Speaker 2: we would have people on there. I saw miles of

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Speaker 2: trucks outside of the border, and I'm like, what are

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Speaker 2: in those trucks? And I think we really need people

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Speaker 2: on the ground. To hold some accountability. But I think

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Speaker 2: a lot of times in politics, you know, for political reasons,

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Speaker 2: people write at check and they say, Okay, we've done

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Speaker 2: our job. No, you just started to do your job.

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Speaker 2: But I do think the consequence of allowing Putin to

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Speaker 2: take Ukraine could be catastrophic geopolitically for US and and

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Speaker 2: and Frankly, I think one reason why we had October

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Speaker 2: seventh was because when you abandon your citizens to the Taliban,

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Speaker 2: when you basically tell Putin that, well, a little invasion's okay.

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Speaker 2: I think the bad actors Iran Hamas they sense weakness.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure Putin greenlit October seventh because what was

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Speaker 2: his goal? To take the focus off Ukraine, which it

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Speaker 2: has done. So I understand the concerns about Ukraine, but

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, to allow Putin to to take Ukraine

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Speaker 2: and to basically annihilate Ukrainians would be historically catastrophic.

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Speaker 1: Now, your wife, who you've been married to for decades,

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Speaker 1: has a Jewish last name. I don't know to what

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Speaker 1: degree she was brought up or considers yourself a practicing Jew.

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Speaker 1: But did that inform your take on October seventh?

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Speaker 2: No, it didn't it's to me, this is not a

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Speaker 2: Jewish thing. A lot of people say, why are you

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Speaker 2: doing this, You're not Jewish, and I'm like, well, when

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Speaker 2: we were rescuing Muslims from Afghanistan, people didn't say why

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Speaker 2: are you Muslim? Why are you doing this? I just

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Speaker 2: think it's the right thing to do. I was just

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Speaker 2: frankly shocked, and to this day, I'm ashamed of our

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Speaker 2: industry where so many folks who've made their kind of

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Speaker 2: brand is caring about human rights, standing up for good

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Speaker 2: and all that is good, have been deathly silent on

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Speaker 2: October seventh. I mean, of course, we all remember the

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Speaker 2: concert for New York. I was a little kid and

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Speaker 2: I was honored to play my little song. But every

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Speaker 2: icon in music was on that stage in Madison Square Garden,

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Speaker 2: condemning Osama bin Laden, supporting America, supporting New York. October seventh,

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Speaker 2: nothing nothing, So for me, this is not about Jewish, Christian, atheist, Martian.

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Speaker 2: This is about those who want to destroy civilization against

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Speaker 2: those who want to save it. Because at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, and that's what my song's about. It's

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Speaker 2: not about Israel Palestine. It's about good versus evil. It

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Speaker 2: really is. And so for me, it's not about Jewish,

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Speaker 2: it's about sanity. And for me, yes, my wife has

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Speaker 2: she's a Berkowitz, she's not a practicing Jewish person. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: to me, it's as simple as that. It's it's just

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Speaker 2: doing the right thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, where were you and how did you find out

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Speaker 1: about the October seventh invasion slash massacre.

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Speaker 2: I was at home like everybody else, and I kind

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Speaker 2: of heard what was going on, and we didn't see

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Speaker 2: some of the images, you know, for hours, but I

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Speaker 2: kept saying, like, where's the idea? Half where like everybody else,

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Speaker 2: where's where's the good guys? How is this happening? And

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Speaker 2: you know, certainly the Nova concert was was kind of

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Speaker 2: one of the first things that kind of we saw.

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Speaker 2: And I again, I was six to sick to my stomach.

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Speaker 2: I was you know, I was horrified. And as the

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Speaker 2: days went by and you heard the stories and it

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Speaker 2: just you just didn't understand. Number one, how could this evil?

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Speaker 2: How could this evil happen? And number two how Israel

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Speaker 2: allowed it to happen? And when I was in Israel,

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Speaker 2: I asked many kind of leaders that question, and they

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Speaker 2: just shake their heads because there is no good answer

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Speaker 2: for that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, getting a little bit deeper into the conflict, which,

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Speaker 1: as you say, is to place Ukraine in the news

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Speaker 1: and is upfront and center because of the protests. What

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Speaker 1: would you say to the Jews, never mind the non

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Speaker 1: Jews who say put all the blame on Net and Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: Got to get rid of net Yah.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a time for politics, but that's probably

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Speaker 2: not now. I think Israel needs to get rid of

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Speaker 2: Hamas because the cycle has been going on and on

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Speaker 2: for decades. Hamask commits atrocities, they run back their high

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Speaker 2: they commit they take terrorists, they use human shields to

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Speaker 2: guarantee that as many Palaestinian civilizations are killed, the world

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Speaker 2: comes down on Israel, pressures them to where they stop,

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Speaker 2: and then the whole thing starts over. So again, I think,

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Speaker 2: to me, it's not so much about the politicians, the

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Speaker 2: net and Yahoo. You love him, you hate him. There'll

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Speaker 2: be a time for reckoning. I think for net and

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Speaker 2: Yahoo because he was in charge when the massive failure

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Speaker 2: to protect his own people on October seventh occurred. But

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Speaker 2: I think right now, when I talk to folks in Israel,

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Speaker 2: certainly many of the hostage families are angry with him,

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Speaker 2: and you understand that. I mean, they just want their

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Speaker 2: loved ones home. But I think right now it's really

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Speaker 2: about taking out Hamas and then the chips will probably

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Speaker 2: fall soon after that.

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Speaker 1: Let's be specific. As we were recording this, Israel has

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Speaker 1: entered Rafa. Our US government says we are not going

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Speaker 1: to help them with materiel. What's your take on that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's disgusting by our government. Some of the

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Speaker 2: statements that come out from our administration have been despicable.

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Speaker 2: In the beginning, I think President Biden his rhetoric was

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Speaker 2: very good. We're going to stand with Israel shoulder to shoulder.

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Speaker 2: But when you hear things from Anthony Blincoln statements such

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Speaker 2: as if Israel doesn't change their ways, they may become indistinguishable,

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Speaker 2: indistinguishable from Hamas, that is disgusting. He knows better. This

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Speaker 2: is a guy who called Afghanistan an incredible success. This

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Speaker 2: is a guy who presided over when America accidentally droned

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Speaker 2: and killed ten Afghans, and he's calling out Israel after

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Speaker 2: the mistake of killing the human Aid workers. So I

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Speaker 2: think to withhold armaments from Israel at this point, I

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Speaker 2: just don't understand it. I don't understand it morally, I

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Speaker 2: don't understand it politically. I haven't understood it from day

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Speaker 2: one now. As far as moving into Rafa on the border,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't surprise me because many folks I talk to

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Speaker 2: and Israel assumed that that would probably be the first step,

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Speaker 2: because the lifeblood of Hamas or the tunnels from Egypt

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Speaker 2: into Gaza. So I think what Israel will do, and

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Speaker 2: I think you'll probably see over the next few days

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Speaker 2: when they start kind of going down and extivating hundreds

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Speaker 2: of tunnels under the border there, so they'll cut off

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Speaker 2: the life blood of Hamas and hopefully, you know, they'll

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Speaker 2: try to move as many civilians as possible. But it's

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Speaker 2: going to be terrible. All war is terrible. But this

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Speaker 2: is kind of what I was told what happened, and

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Speaker 2: it seems to be playing out that way.

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Speaker 1: And what do you say to the people who say,

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Speaker 1: thirty odd thousand people have perished, The war has to stop.

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Speaker 2: Nobody likes war. I care about a Palestinian child as

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Speaker 2: much as an Israeli child, as much as an Afghan child,

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainian child, an American child. But I would have

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Speaker 2: to ask some of these people who use the ceasefire argument,

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Speaker 2: certain we all would love a ceasefire and spout the

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand Palestinians killed. I think, first of all, that

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Speaker 2: number is given to you by Hamas. It includes hama's members.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that many in the media parrot the

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Speaker 2: Hamas propaganda is a huge problem. The AP, the BBC,

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Speaker 2: sky News, they're not journalists, they are Hamas propagandists. The

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Speaker 2: fact that President Biden used that number in his State

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Speaker 2: of the Union, it's very unfortunate. Hamas is very good

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Speaker 2: at propaganda. Because there's many people who don't like Israel.

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Speaker 2: I haven't I didn't expect I didn't. I always thought

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Speaker 2: that anti Semitism was some crazy people on the right

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Speaker 2: and some crazy people on the left. But there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of anti Semitism out there. And I would just

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Speaker 2: say to the ceasefire people and the people who claim

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Speaker 2: to care about Palestinians. In my mind, if you truly

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Speaker 2: cared about Palestinians, would you not be saying release the hostages.

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Speaker 2: Would you not be saying lay down your weapons and

431
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: not one more civilian will die? Would you not be

432
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: saying stop using Palestinian children? And women as human shields

433
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 2: and trying to create as many Palestinian deaths as possible.

434
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: Would you not be saying, how come the Arab nations

435
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 2: Egypt will not take one refugee? Would you not be

436
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: calling out Hamas as the agent of Palestinian death? And

437
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 2: if you don't understand the death culture of Hamas where

438
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: they train children at five years old to kill Jewish people.

439
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: Only hope for Palestinians truly is to free Gaza from Hamas.

440
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: There's no hope. And what people don't like to talk

441
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: about too is the IDF numbers. By a objective people,

442
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: the civilian to combatant casualty rate is basically one to one,

443
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 2: which has never happened in history. Israel does more than

444
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: any army to protect to protect civilians. If you cared

445
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: about Palestinians, these crazy folks on their campuses, why weren't

446
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: you protesting when Syria killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

447
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, I think many

448
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: of the ceasefire folks they have a good heart. They

449
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: just wanted to stop and I understand that. But what

450
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: it's not doing, what the ceasefire will not do, is

451
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: stop this from happening again, and I never hear let

452
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: me say that again. I rarely hear people calling for

453
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: a ceasefire make those arguments about releasing the hostages and

454
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: all these other things I'm talking about. So that's what

455
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: I would say to people. If you truly care about

456
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 2: the Palestinian people, Hamas has to go. If you care

457
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: about gay people, Hummas has to go, because they kill them.

458
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: If these kids were protesting in Gaza and calling out

459
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: the government there, they would be dead. Unfortunately, that narrative

460
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: doesn't seem to stick with many people, especially in the

461
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: music business. But that's my opinion.

462
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: Okay, we have all these pro Palestinian encampments and rallies

463
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: and protests on college campuses. Now, as a writer in

464
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: the Free Press pointed out, if they were sporting or

465
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: using Confederate flags, they would be uh stopped immediately. If

466
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: they were protesting and saying things about black people, they

467
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: would stopped immediately. Why do you think these people are

468
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: protesting and why do you think they've been allowed to protest?

469
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: In addition, you have both the administrations of these schools

470
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: and many Democrats afraid to stand up to these people.

471
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: I gave a speech at UCLA last week basically saying

472
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: the same thing that if twelve hundred Muslims are massacred

473
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: and there were Muslim hostages and Muslim women were raped,

474
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 2: and we had five Muslim American hostages as we speak,

475
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: and our university set up students and faculties set up

476
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: illegal accountments on their campuses calling for death to all Muslims,

477
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: attacking Muslims at UCLA literally creating checkpoints where students are asked,

478
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: what is your religion? And if they say, in this case, Muslim,

479
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: they would be banned from moving across campus. If that

480
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 2: was happening, it wouldn't be happening because we know that

481
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: the administrations would stop that in two seconds. I think

482
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 2: there's a few reasons why this has grown on some

483
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: of our college campuses. Let's be honest. It's in our

484
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: supposed elite Ivy League campuses and the coastal campuses. This

485
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: is not happening in the SEC. This is not happening

486
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: in Florida. But many of those institutions for decades have

487
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 2: been teaching this oppressor versus a press e kind of

488
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: Marxist woke dogma, and many of those students ten for

489
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 2: fifteen years ago. Are now presidents of MIT, presidents of Harvard,

490
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: presidents of UCLA, running the New York Times, running business.

491
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: So this whole woke ideology. I was talking to Naton Seransky,

492
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: the freedom fighter in Israel, the iconic Naton Seranski, and

493
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: he said, you know, twenty years ago, somebody asked me

494
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,959
Speaker 2: what is the biggest threat to freedom in the Western world?

495
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: And he said, twenty years ago American academic institutions. And

496
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: I think we've seen that. You know, Katar has funded

497
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: three billion dollars to the northwesterns, to NYU, to Colombia

498
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: to basically kind of teach this anti Semitic you know,

499
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 2: oppressor versus a press e dogma. So between the faculty

500
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 2: who believes this, between the president's and administration who appease this,

501
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: and the radicals who have kind of come into these

502
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: college campuses to indoctrinate these kids, to brainwash them. I

503
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: don't think we should be surprised. The difference between UCLA

504
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: and NYU and Colombia and MIT is the administrations are

505
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: so cowardly afraid to basically enforce their own codes of conduct.

506
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: They negotiate with the students and they kind of they

507
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: kind of allow them to run rabid versus some of

508
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 2: the schools in the South where and to the encampments,

509
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: you know, taken out, these students are suspended and sanity rains.

510
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: But I think this has been coming for a long time.

511
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: We've just kind of turned over the rock and it's

512
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: clear for everybody to see now.

513
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 1: No one is a strict party member, but and the

514
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: continuum of left to right, Republican or Democrat generally speaking,

515
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: where would you put yourself?

516
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: I would say I'm a centrist. Maybe I lean a

517
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: little right, you know, on financial and foreign policy issues,

518
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: and I lean a little left on social issues. But

519
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: I've always kind of been a misfit toy. I really

520
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: don't fit into either party. And certain times the left

521
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: is mad at me, and certain times the right is

522
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: mad at me, And so be it. I think that's

523
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: what America is all about. I think over the last

524
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen years we become very polarized that the

525
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: left has moved further left, some on the right has

526
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 2: moved farther right. I don't think if you kind of

527
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: woke up from a coma after fifteen years, you probably

528
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: wouldn't recognize the Democratic left and you wouldn't recognize the

529
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: Republican right. The center has kind of been washed out.

530
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: And you know the theme of my song, you know

531
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: we are not okay. I think that applies to our

532
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 2: politics right now too. We've become so tribal and the media,

533
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: I think has become so tribal, and I think that's

534
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: one reason we're here and we are struggling. Certain things

535
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: like supporting Israel should not be political, and you know

536
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 2: what it's really not. If you look at the polls, No,

537
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: eighty percent of Americans support Israel. If they support Israel

538
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: going into Rafa, you wouldn't know that by the media

539
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,760
Speaker 2: and by the college campuses. But at the same time

540
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 2: you know that that's the so called silent majority. But

541
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,240
Speaker 2: the problem is if you're silent long enough, that silent

542
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: majority becomes a silent minority. So that's why I think

543
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: it's very important for people to speak up. The first

544
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: lyric of my song Okay is this is a time

545
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: for choosing, and I think we have to choose. We

546
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: can't put our heads in the sand anymore. We're losing

547
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 2: a generation of children. And I just wish more artists

548
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: would say that. And that's the thing that really breaks

549
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:19,959
Speaker 2: my heart.

550
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: Okay, in the sixties, it was believed that music could

551
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: change the world. Graham Nash literally had a song where

552
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: you sang that, having had this experience with these three

553
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: spiky political songs, to what degree do you believe that

554
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: music can have an impact?

555
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 2: Look? I saw it at a very young age and

556
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: a very surreal experience when Superman became one of the

557
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 2: songs that recognized the heroes of nine to eleven, became

558
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: a song for the firefighters who ran into those buildings,

559
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,959
Speaker 2: and I saw how music can provide solid in ways

560
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 2: nothing else can. How, you know, we talk about fame,

561
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 2: fortune charts, how many tickets can you sell? Celebrity? That

562
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 2: night at the concert for New York, I think changed me.

563
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: And it wasn't my performance. It was watching the Who

564
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: blow the roof off Madison Square Garden and watching two

565
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 2: twenty thousand people who'd been down at ground zero crying

566
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: and singing and screaming and been able to release, you know,

567
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 2: to get the thousands of emails from Israelis who feel

568
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 2: abandoned by the arts because they have been and they say,

569
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 2: we thought we were crazy. Why is nobody speaking enough

570
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,359
Speaker 2: for us? We've marched for civil rights, we've done all

571
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 2: the right things, and we get hit with these atrocities,

572
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: and even Jewish artists can't say release the hostages. So

573
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 2: I think again, I just wish, to be honest with you,

574
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: I wish I had a bigger platform. I wish some

575
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 2: of the more artists had written this song. They should

576
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: have written this song, and then I think we'd be

577
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 2: in a better place, because nothing, nothing moves the needle

578
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 2: more than the arts, especially for the kids. The kids

579
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 2: don't watch the news. The kids don't care about speeches

580
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 2: by politicians. What do they care about. They care about music.

581
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: That's how you cross borders, that's how you change Live

582
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 2: Sun City Live Aid concert for New York, go down

583
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: the list. That's who we're supposed to be, but that's

584
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: not who we are now. And I think the shame

585
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 2: is a historical shame on the music business that will

586
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 2: never be washed clean. But there's still time. There's a

587
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: few folks David Draymond from Disturbed, he's been very brave

588
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 2: out there. There's been some a few folks in Hollywood,

589
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: Deborah Messing, Patricia Heaton who've been very vocal fighting the

590
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 2: good fight. But man. The music industry has a lot,

591
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: a lot.

592
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: You know.

593
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 2: The last image of my video is Martin Luther King

594
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: with his statement silence in the face of evil is complicity,

595
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: and the music business is complicit.

596
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: So with over a number of years these big political

597
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 1: moments in your career, standing up for what you think

598
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 1: is right and writing and performing these songs, has it

599
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: helped your career or hurt your career? I know that's

600
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: not why you did it, but with hindsight.

601
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: I think I think it's probably the margins and probably

602
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: hurt more than helped. Certainly, you never know because nobody says, well,

603
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm not going to license your song because I hate

604
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 2: that you criticize the administration over Afghanistan. They just don't

605
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 2: license your song. And I have there are folks in

606
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: the music industry that used to take my call that

607
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 2: won't take my call. I'm also you know, look, I mean,

608
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to be sixty years old. I've had my run,

609
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 2: and I'm on the backside of my career, and I

610
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: think a lot of folks are very I know for

611
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: a fact that there are folks unhappy with me within

612
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 2: the music industry. On the other hand, there are some

613
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: folks who are very grateful. I hear from music executives

614
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 2: who are Jewish and some who are not, who sometimes

615
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: are in tears because they also are very frustrated and

616
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 2: upset by the fact that the music industry has remained silent.

617
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 2: There's a group out here called the Creative Coalition for

618
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: Peace with many music executives, managers, you know, the Scooter

619
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 2: Braun folks like that, who who have been speaking up

620
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 2: and in my mind, fighting the good fight. But yeah,

621
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: I mean, at this point in my career, to be

622
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 2: honest with you, it's you know, I really don't even

623
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: think about it. You know, when you talk to hostage families,

624
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: you look them in the eye and you hear their stories.

625
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: Like anybody who doesn't buy a ticket, or buy a record,

626
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: or you know, license a song of mine, It seems

627
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: so silly and trivial. But I don't think it's had

628
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 2: a huge impact either way.

629
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 1: Really, Okay, talking about your fellow artists, why do you

630
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,240
Speaker 1: think they will not go on record? And what would

631
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: you tell them?

632
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 2: I would tell them this. I understand that you're scared.

633
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 2: I understand that you're scared for your families. I understand

634
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: that you don't want your concerts protested. I understand that

635
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: because I'm living some of that. But I'd also say

636
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: to you is the same arguments were used in nineteen

637
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 2: thirty eight. Good people were quiet when they should have

638
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: spoken out. You don't have to love Israel. You don't

639
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 2: have to. You could it's not even about Israel. But

640
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: how hard is it to say, release the hostages Hamas

641
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: is evil and stand for good against what is happening,

642
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 2: to support Jewish people in their time of need. That

643
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: should not be a political calculation. It should be a

644
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: moral calculation. And if it was any other group, like

645
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 2: you said, Bob, pretty much all of the artists that

646
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 2: we know who like to get out on their soapboxes,

647
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: we'll be out there screaming, you know, speaking for Muslim,

648
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 2: speaking for African Americans, speaking for gain inlisting people as

649
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: they should be. But for some reason, because it's Jewish people,

650
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 2: we have to ask ourselves and really look in our

651
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 2: hearts and look in the mirror and say who are we?

652
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: Are we the people we thought we were? And if

653
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: we are, shouldn't we should we not be speaking out

654
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 2: standing up, using our platforms, moving the needle. Whether you

655
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: care about Israeli Palestinian people are not. It's the best

656
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: thing for them, and it's the best thing for us,

657
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: because the Jewish people are always on the front tip

658
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 2: of the spear, and the people trying to bring the

659
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,120
Speaker 2: world down are not going to stop there. They're going

660
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: to come for all of us, all of us who

661
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: value freedom, democracy, and us songwriters the ability to write

662
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: and say what we want to say.

663
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: Okay, I found out about your song via a large

664
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: piece prominently placed in the Wall Street Journal. I'm interested

665
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: in how that happened, but I'm more interested since that

666
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 1: was published, what effect have you felt.

667
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was surreal, I'll tell you that much. It's

668
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: certainly given me a bigger platform. People have reached out

669
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: to me, and people have found the song. They have

670
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 2: found the Hasta Square performance. More recently, they have found

671
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: the speech at UCLA. So I think it has given

672
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 2: me a little more capital to basically spread my message.

673
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of the Wall Street Journal. It

674
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: was very surreal seeing myself on that page. When Matthew

675
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: Hennessy reached out to me. He actually reached out to

676
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 2: me a month or so ago, and and we were

677
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 2: going to talk early. But when he found out I

678
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 2: was going to Israel. He wanted to wait to see

679
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: what happened, and I'm glad he did. He flew to Seattle.

680
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 2: He flew across the country to Seattle, and we sat

681
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: in a hotel room and talked for three hours. But

682
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: you know, the whole lone Voice for Israel thing has resonated,

683
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 2: and I think it has. It has. It has annoyed

684
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: some people in the music business. I know for a

685
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: fact it has, because I've heard about that it has.

686
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 2: It has some people put some people on notes. So again,

687
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: hopefully you know some of these these articles and some

688
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: of these speeches, and in our conversation here this is

689
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: we'll reach more people in the music business in this

690
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 2: two hours with you than seven months of press. I

691
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: hope folks that are listening to this podcast are open

692
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: minded enough to maybe think twice and maybe join some

693
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 2: of these efforts I'm doing collaborating with international artists, Ukrainian artists,

694
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 2: Iranian artists. Is rarely artists to really speak for freedom,

695
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 2: human rights, because that is who we are as an industry.

696
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 2: And I think there's still time to speak for that

697
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 2: because if we don't, as I said, history will judge us,

698
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: and right now, it's not a good judgment.

699
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: You referenced earlier some of the blowback. This is something

700
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: I experience every day. But what has it been, like

701
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 1: everybody's reachable on social media, etc. What has been the

702
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 1: character and volume of the negative feedback?

703
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 2: You know, it's mostly just social media, probably many of

704
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: its are bots, and you know, you'll never be okay again.

705
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,439
Speaker 2: And I know where you live, and you know, kind

706
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 2: of just the the typical victory all you get on

707
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 2: social media. You know, I've had a few emails from

708
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: from people that are kind of off the rocker, but

709
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: so far I haven't had like what modis Modist Yahu

710
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: has had or Michael Rappinport just had to have his

711
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: show's canceled. I haven't experienced kind of mobs showing up

712
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 2: at my shows, you know, trying to shut us down.

713
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 2: So we'll see what happens. I'm going to start doing

714
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 2: some concert tours on on campuses and speaking on campus

715
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: and supporting the Jewish kids. And I do think the

716
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 2: tides turning a little bit. You see you see students

717
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: standing up to the mobs, you see Americans. Just the

718
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 2: response to my UCLA speech has been overwhelming. So I

719
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: think a lot of people are are standing up and say, Okay,

720
00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 2: we have to push back on this, not just for

721
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 2: the sake of us, but for the sake of those kids,

722
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 2: those college kids who have been indoctrinated, who've been brainwashed,

723
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: who've been indoctrinated into this cult. We need to we

724
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: need to save them too. So so we'll see what happens,

725
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: you know, I I I imagine at some point there'll

726
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: be some you know, pushback, but uh, as I said,

727
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 2: it's it's the right thing to do. And if you're

728
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: not pissing someone off, you're probably not doing anything to

729
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 2: begin with.

730
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: You are an alumnus of UCLA. How did your speech

731
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: there happen and what was the experience in terms of

732
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: attendance protest?

733
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, well after you know, kind of the antarcrete anarchy

734
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 2: we saw on that Tuesday night. Uh, the American Jewish Committee, Uh,

735
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: the ADL, we're planning to do a press conference on

736
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: campus the friday after they finally cleared the encampment, and

737
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: they asked me to come play my song and to

738
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: speak a little bit. Because of the security risk, we

739
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 2: were not allowed on campus. So at the HELLL across

740
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: the street from UCLA. We held a press conference and

741
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: a few people spoke, and I spoke, and along with

742
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: the UCLA professor, a Jewish professor who talked about his

743
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 2: horrible experience, Jonah Platt, spoke and I basically said what

744
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: we've been talking about, that if this was this was

745
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 2: Muslims under attack, it would not be happening. So why

746
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: why is it with with Jewish people? Why do you

747
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 2: allow this? And I also gave a message to the

748
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: kids and let them know that you know, they're not

749
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: alone in this, and they have support and and my

750
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: heart breaks for them. So that's kind of how it

751
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,240
Speaker 2: came to be. I didn't expect it to go viral

752
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 2: on social media, but again I think we have to

753
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: go on offense. We can't just sit back and go, oh,

754
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 2: this is terrible. Look what's happening to our campus is

755
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: what's happening to our kids. A lot of these folks

756
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: are just bullies. You need to confront them. You need

757
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 2: to confront them. You need to teach the kids facts.

758
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: You need to have debates, you need to stand in

759
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: front of the bullies and speak your piece. You need

760
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: to go to MIT. I may go to mit next week,

761
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 2: and you need to perform. You need to sing songs,

762
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: you need to stand with people. I'll be performing in

763
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: a synagogue here in Los Angeles on Monday, so I

764
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: think we need to keep singing, standing together. You know,

765
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 2: we're the ones who don't wear masks. You know why,

766
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: because we're not ashamed. I think the folks that do

767
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,120
Speaker 2: wear masks, they know deep down that what they're doing

768
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: is wrong. So we need to address that. And as

769
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 2: I said from the beginning, nobody does that better than

770
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 2: artists with music. So I'm asking, who's ever listening to this,

771
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 2: you know, reach out to me, join my cause, join

772
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 2: this cause. It's not my cause, it's our cause, and

773
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: lend your voice to speaking up for good versus this

774
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: kind of moral rot that's infected our kids on campus.

775
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: Okay. In the Wall Street Journal, there was something that

776
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: I did not know previously that you're involved with the

777
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: family business. Can you tell us about the family business

778
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: and your involvement.

779
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for asking. I have a very

780
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,760
Speaker 2: strange life. As a kid, I worked at our family business,

781
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 2: Precision Wire Products, at fourteen on the line. Are claim

782
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: to fame as we make the best shopping cart in

783
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 2: the world, Bob. If you shop at Costco, you use

784
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: our shopping cart. And I've worked there my whole life.

785
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 2: My dad still ucla graduate astrophysicist. He still runs Precision

786
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: Wire eighty five years old. My son works there. Even

787
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: when I had the number one song hot a C

788
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 2: song in the country, I was working at Precision Wire.

789
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 2: And the great thing about it is a couple things.

790
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,800
Speaker 2: One It keeps you grounded. You know, this celebrity world

791
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 2: we live in can be prey shallow. Sometimes it can

792
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 2: be a shallow pool. But when you go when you

793
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: see people sweating and making things, and you see the

794
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 2: American dream where people start at minimum wage and twenty

795
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 2: years later they're putting their kids through Stanford and Princeton.

796
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: When you make things and you have to make a payroll,

797
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: I think it grounds you. And I think it's been

798
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 2: very helpful for me. And maybe that's why I have

799
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 2: a little different world view and many of my friends

800
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: in the music business, because I have this other life.

801
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: You know. Sometimes I'll go into a town and I'll

802
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 2: have a meeting with Albertson's at two o'clock, and I'll

803
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: be playing a gig at seven o'clock. You know, at

804
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 2: the local theater. So it's very strange. But I love

805
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: working with my dad. He's my hero, and I think

806
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 2: it gives me a different kind of look at the world.

807
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 2: And if you ever need a shopping car, Bob, you

808
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 2: know a guy.

809
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: Okay, in the world of shopping carts, your family business

810
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: has what percentage of the nash market?

811
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 2: That's a question I did not expect on this podcast.

812
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,439
Speaker 2: We're there's three domestic manufacturers we're we're the third. Well,

813
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: we make about four hundred thousand to a half a

814
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,720
Speaker 2: million shopping carts a year. We just opened a new

815
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 2: facility in Texas to expand our capacity. But we also

816
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:24,040
Speaker 2: make things like the racks in a seven eleven where

817
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 2: you buy the sodas behind the refrigerator doors. So but

818
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,760
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's just it's really American small family

819
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 2: business and we have four hundred employees, many of them

820
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 2: have been with us. We had a lunch a few

821
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 2: weeks ago where we had thirty people who'd been with

822
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 2: us over thirty years and we realized we had one

823
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: thousand hours of folks at that table. So it's really

824
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: truly a family business, not just me, my dad, my son,

825
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 2: my sister. It's it's everybody who works there, and it's

826
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 2: a beautiful thing. And as I said, my dad at

827
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,359
Speaker 2: eighty five, he works seventy hours a week. He goes

828
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: in every day, and it's just, you know, it's not

829
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: easy to run a business in California, but we're really

830
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: proud of it.

831
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: What's the lifespan of a shopping cart?

832
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: Typically five to six years. If you left one in

833
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 2: a store, they'd probably last forever. Usually what happens is

834
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 2: they get out in the parking lots and the parking

835
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 2: lots aren't great. Everybody complains about shopping cart wheels. They're

836
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 2: actually pretty good wheels, they just get abused. Our carts

837
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 2: last longer. My dad was an astrophysicist. He worked at NASA.

838
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: He's an engineer, so he was able to redesign the

839
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: shopping cart and the machines that make them. He was

840
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: building computers on our dinner table forty years ago to

841
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: run his machines, and I often think if he just

842
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 2: marketed those computers, our conversation would be much different right now.

843
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's typically five to seven years. Is a

844
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:52,879
Speaker 2: shopping cart?

845
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: How much time do you dedicate to the company at

846
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: this point.

847
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 2: During COVID, basically my whole, my whole kind of bandwidth

848
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 2: was Precision Wire. My dad had to quant quarantine. We Uh,

849
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 2: we had many people very sick. We were kind of

850
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 2: ground zero for COVID in Los Angeles, East LA. And uh,

851
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,200
Speaker 2: my dad couldn't come in for a couple of years. Certainly,

852
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:19,400
Speaker 2: our sales went down. We were an essential business, so

853
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 2: we never stopped so so those couple of years were

854
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 2: really tough, really tough, you know, driving in at five

855
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: in the morning, taking temperatures, trying to get people through it.

856
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,919
Speaker 2: It was hard on me. I finally got some help.

857
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 2: I got got therapist to help me, got a little

858
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 2: medicine so I could sleep. It was. It was the

859
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 2: most challenging thing that's happened in my life. And we

860
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 2: got through that. These days, I talked to my dad

861
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 2: and I talked to our GM four or five times

862
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: a day. I probably do half of my zooms or

863
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,359
Speaker 2: music related and certainly now kind of Israel related, and

864
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: half our Precision Wire. It's very strange, but but it's great.

865
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: I love it. I go to Texas often because of

866
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 2: our new plant. But yeah, yesterday I was there having

867
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 2: lunch with my dad and I'll be there tomorrow. So

868
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 2: it's kind of two worlds colliding.

869
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: And could you survive financially just on your music.

870
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 2: Yes, I've been very fortunate. Both one hundred Years and

871
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 2: Superman have stood the test of time, and for whatever reason,

872
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 2: you know, people still want to buy a ticket. I

873
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 2: had the greatest time in my life touring with the

874
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 2: Bare Naked Ladies last year. It was basically rock star

875
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 2: dad Camp. We had so much fun, you know, playing,

876
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 2: and ever since the pandemic, I've I've really treasured performing

877
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: with my string quartet with the rock band. And fortunately

878
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: I've I've had a lot of licenses in my day,

879
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 2: and I've I've also been pretty frugal too. I think

880
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 2: it was helpful for me that I had success late.

881
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 2: You know, Superman didn't become a hit till I was

882
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: in my late twenties, so I knew that it wasn't

883
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: about me and that this could be very fleeting, so

884
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,280
Speaker 2: you know, save your money and invest wisely. And also

885
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: because Fire for Fighting is not a band too, you know,

886
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: I don't have to deal with the dynamic of other songwriters,

887
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 2: other musicians. But yes, you know, I don't know if

888
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 2: I could afford living California for the next thirty years,

889
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 2: but I'd be all right.

890
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: And no one lives forever. When your father ultimately goes

891
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: into the sunset, does that mean you run the business.

892
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: For better or worse? My friend? Yeah, Now, as I said,

893
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 2: I think I don't really have the skill set or

894
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: the bandwidth to run the day to day. I think

895
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 2: I would certainly kind of oversee things. We have an

896
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:48,319
Speaker 2: amazing young GM his name's Paul Nova, thirty years old,

897
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: who would be a great president. We're putting management in place.

898
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: We're certainly going to run Precision Wire for as long

899
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 2: as we can, for hopefully decades, and that legacy will

900
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: con you. But I think it's you know, it's it's

901
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: only fair to myself that I should still be able

902
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: to do what I love to write to perform, especially

903
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 2: seeing how these songs are resonated. I feel invigorated. I'm

904
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 2: excited about songwriting. I love performing more now than I

905
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 2: have in twenty years. So hopefully I'll find a balance

906
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 2: where I can do both. But yeah, I will be

907
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 2: that guy, and I do have a son, so hopefully

908
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 2: I can pass that baton off to him as soon

909
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 2: as possible.

910
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's go to your musical history. At what

911
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: point do you start playing an instrument and is there

912
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: music in the house. What were the musical influences and input.

913
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, mom was a music teacher USC graduate. She started me.

914
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: She started me at the piano at very young two

915
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 2: years old, and when music funding was cut in our

916
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: local schools, she took over and started putting on full musicals.

917
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 2: I was Tony in West Side Story. Whether that was

918
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 2: because I was my mom's son or I was any good,

919
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 2: we don't know. But and then she was wise. When

920
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 2: I was thirteen, she let me quit, but by then

921
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: I had the fundamentals and I started writing songs because

922
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 2: I loved writing songs. And I bought a all you

923
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 2: know at the time, a new TC half inch reel

924
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 2: to reel and a little mixing board, and I started

925
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 2: writing songs. And when I was sixteen, I had a

926
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: mission to go find Steve Perry's voice teacher, which I did,

927
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 2: a guy named Ron Anderson, and I started training classically

928
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: as a vocalist. And it was funny all the rock

929
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 2: stars would be coming through his through his you know

930
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 2: teaching studio. Axel rose Don Dawkin. I met Rudy Sarzo

931
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: believe it or not, at a at a at a

932
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: pool one day, Rudy Sarzo of Azzy Fame, Quiet Riot,

933
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 2: White Snake. At the time, he was in White Snake

934
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: and he became a mentor of mine, and I started

935
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 2: going to the studio recording songs. I met a guy

936
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 2: named Scott Sheets, who was Pat Benatar's guitar player, and

937
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 2: we formed a band called John Scott And it was

938
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,479
Speaker 2: me and all the ex members of Pat Benatar's band.

939
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: They were forty. I was twenty two, and we were

940
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 2: writing songs and I was living the dream. And I

941
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 2: was kind of trailing around White Snake like almost famous.

942
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: I was a little kid, and r Rudy would say, well,

943
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 2: you can go in that room, but don't go in

944
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 2: that room. And and and then this little band came,

945
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 2: you know, called Nirvana came out, and as you know, let's.

946
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: Slow down in the beginning. So you're in school. Are

947
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: you the known as the kid who plays the piano

948
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: or are you playing sports? You're popular? You're not popular?

949
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: You know.

950
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,919
Speaker 2: I did play sports. I played basketball, wasn't very good,

951
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: but I also was the guy, you know, when at

952
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 2: the party that would sing Somebody to Love just to

953
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 2: get a girl to talk to me, you know, just

954
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 2: you know, I'd bring my guitar and sing, you know, peaceful,

955
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: easy feeling or you know, Ebony and Ivory or whatever,

956
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 2: you know, whatever song it was those days. And you

957
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: know when I went to college, when I went to UCLA,

958
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 2: I wasn't a music major. I was a applied mathematics major.

959
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 2: I kind of had my dad's you know, kind of

960
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 2: genes for that because I wanted a job, you know,

961
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: when this whole music thing imploded. And I still may

962
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 2: need that music in that math degree one day, but

963
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,240
Speaker 2: I was writing in my apartment. I was just recording

964
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 2: songs again, working with Rudy and some of the other guys,

965
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 2: and and my life really was music, even though I

966
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 2: was kind of going and trying to get that that

967
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 2: you know, that plan B.

968
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: Before U c l A. What was the town you

969
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: grew up in?

970
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, you know,

971
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 2: Valley boy, went to Kennedy High scho cool in the valley.

972
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: You know, still live out here, you know, in Thousand Oaks,

973
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 2: and but yeah, all through that, all through those there

974
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 2: was a moment there when I was eighteen, because a

975
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 2: lot of these rock stars, as you know, they trained classically,

976
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 2: so we would train operatically. You know, we'd be singing Mozart.

977
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: We wouldn't be singing you know, I don't know Queen.

978
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 2: And there's a there was a moment there that I

979
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: had an opportunity to go pursue opera. But you know,

980
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: I was listening to Peter Frampton, I was listening to

981
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 2: the Beatles, I was listening to led Zeppelin, and I

982
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 2: knew I wanted to go kind of the pop world.

983
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 2: But that's that was kind of my trajectory. And but again,

984
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm a fifteen year overnight success. You know,

985
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't have the dream coming true until

986
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 2: I was my late twenties.

987
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: Okay, did you play in bands in high school?

988
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 2: Not really. You know, I would sing at the talent

989
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 2: shows and I had a couple of little bands. I

990
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 2: was really more focused on writing hundreds of songs and

991
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: learning how to produce. And when I got out of college,

992
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 2: I started playing around La you know, the eighty one

993
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,920
Speaker 2: twenty one room below, the Coconut teaser. It would be

994
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 2: me and you know five people, and I was playing

995
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: a little piano bar on Melrose when I got whatever

996
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 2: discovered means it was. It was a piano bar and

997
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 2: I play there every Wednesday and again it would be

998
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 2: me the person making coffee, and two or three people

999
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: I paid to be there, and one night a woman

1000
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 2: in a black jacket walked in. Turns out she was

1001
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 2: a very successful publisher working at Zomba. At the time,

1002
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 2: she had signed No Doubt, she had signed Incubus, and

1003
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 2: she said, hey, you know I helped get people record deals.

1004
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 2: I'd heard that before, but she was very attractive. So

1005
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: we started working together and two or three years later

1006
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 2: she saw the light. We've been married now twenty six years.

1007
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 2: Carla Berkowitz, you know, vice president of MI Publishing. So

1008
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 2: but yeah, I literally was discovered on a piano bar

1009
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 2: in Melrose, and it actually happens. So that's just and

1010
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: my songs. Actually she heard me at Motown. I had

1011
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 2: a girlfriend working at Motown who was a secretary for

1012
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 2: a guy named Guy Abraham, who was an A and

1013
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: R guy for Motown who also was an Olympic finalist

1014
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 2: in the hundred yard dash. And that's how crazy this

1015
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 2: business is. You know, all these things had to connect.

1016
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 2: But Carla, my wife, you know, she's been my force

1017
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 2: of nature through this. We were very fortunate that when

1018
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 2: we had my son, Johnny, she was able to quit

1019
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: her job in the music business to become a full

1020
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 2: time mom. But but boy, yeah, she's been my partner

1021
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 2: in this and and it's been everybody has a wild ride,

1022
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 2: but boy, we've had a good one.

1023
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you're in college. Are you playing in bands in college?

1024
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: Nope? No, because I was really kind of you know,

1025
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 2: doing the math degree took a lot of time, and

1026
01:02:57,040 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 2: any excess time I had I was kind of recording

1027
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:05,160
Speaker 2: and write. I never really had a band band. I

1028
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 2: had musicians that I would play with, I had producers

1029
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 2: that I would work with, and only when I had

1030
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 2: kind of some success, I had to put a band together.

1031
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 2: So I think it took me a while to learn

1032
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 2: how to perform. I wasn't, you know, a great performer

1033
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 2: early on, because I didn't have any experience. You know,

1034
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,120
Speaker 2: the crazy thing is is when you have a hit

1035
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 2: song for the first time and you've never been touring

1036
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,240
Speaker 2: for ten years, you know, your first show is like

1037
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 2: the Tonight Show. And that's usually why it doesn't go

1038
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 2: too well. But I've also been blessed, you know, to

1039
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,040
Speaker 2: just have incredible musicians play with me throughout my whole career,

1040
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 2: so that's been amazing too. But yeah, I never played

1041
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 2: in many bands. If it was anything, it was me

1042
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 2: kind of at a piano bar doing the piano man thing,

1043
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: and I did quite a bit of those.

1044
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:58,439
Speaker 1: Okay, you start writing songs when you're a teenager. You're

1045
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 1: a math major. You're right, so what's the dream?

1046
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:07,520
Speaker 2: Then? The dream was always to be Billy Joel, to

1047
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,080
Speaker 2: be Elton John, to make a living at this, to

1048
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 2: have people sing songs back to me, to be able

1049
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 2: to live my childhood passion. And Billy Joel was my

1050
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 2: first concert fifteen years old, fabulous Forum, Glasshouses tour.

1051
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: I was there, Yes, I could even tell you where

1052
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 1: I was sitting, but keep going.

1053
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 2: Well, a funny story about that. When I played the

1054
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 2: concert for New York, you know, before Paul McCartney did

1055
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 2: let it beyond core of the encore, I wasn't going

1056
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 2: to go out there because I'm like, I don't belong

1057
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 2: and bon Jovi and Melissa Etheridge literally grabbed me by

1058
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 2: the shirt and pulled me backstage and backstage was every

1059
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 2: living icon in the world, and I knew I couldn't

1060
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 2: go up to everybody because I'd be a total geek fanboy.

1061
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 2: But I went up to Eric Clapton, said mister Clapton,

1062
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: thank you. I went up to Pete Townsend and I said,

1063
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 2: mister Townsend, Tommy's been in my CD player for twenty years.

1064
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: He's like, row, thanks Rot. And then I went up

1065
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: to Billy Joel because he really was my guy, and

1066
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 2: I said, you know, mister Joel, thank you. You know

1067
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 2: I saw you Faba's Forum Glasshouses tour. It changed my life.

1068
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 2: And he's like, hey, I remember that Liberty de Vito

1069
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 2: missed the phil that night. Goddamn it. I was like, wow,

1070
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 2: that was my Hey. But I also did a CD

1071
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 2: for the Troops project, and Billy Joel for free gave

1072
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 2: me my favorite Billy Joel song, scenes from Italian restaurant

1073
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,360
Speaker 2: for my project, so I always will be grateful to him.

1074
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 2: I love his new song that he put out this year.

1075
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 2: I hope he puts out more songs.

1076
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: Okay, just to drive this home, you're writing and you're

1077
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: learning how to make records while you're in college. Are

1078
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: you playing piano? Bars.

1079
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 2: When you're in college, not so much note just writing

1080
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 2: songs and you know, sending them out to publish and

1081
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,439
Speaker 2: a and our people and kind of getting the yeah,

1082
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 2: it's a pretty good singer, but not a great songwriter,

1083
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 2: or yeah, he's a good songwriter, not a great singer.

1084
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 2: And then when I did graduate, I really kind of

1085
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 2: full time started making demos and writing songs and working

1086
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 2: with various producers, and when I started working with Carla,

1087
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: who became my wife, you know, meeting with with record

1088
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 2: executives and and doing a few showcases, and everybody eventually

1089
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 2: had passed on me except for one person, Brian Koppleman.

1090
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 2: Brian Koppleman, I'm sure you know Brian.

1091
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 1: Uh.

1092
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: You know. Brian at the time was working at Emi Records,

1093
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:51,760
Speaker 2: and he had signed Tracy Chapman, and he had a

1094
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 2: guy named Joshua Cattison, and he heard a song of

1095
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 2: mine called love Song, which was about divorce from the

1096
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 2: perspective of a child. And to Brian's credit, it was

1097
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: a song that would never be on the radio. It's

1098
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 2: not a hit song, but I think it's it's a song.

1099
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 2: It's a song that I think maybe shows some potential

1100
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 2: and Brian loved that song, and at the time, the

1101
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 2: president of EMI Records, as I'm sure you know, was

1102
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 2: David Segerson, who produced Tory Jamis's Little Earthquakes. So Brian

1103
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 2: liked the song. He said, I have to fly to

1104
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 2: New York. You have to play for David, and I

1105
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 2: can't promise you anything, but I did. I went to

1106
01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 2: New York. I played for David. They're like, all right,

1107
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 2: you want to make a record, And of course, you know,

1108
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 2: all the bells went out, all the balloons popped, and

1109
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 2: the most exciting moment of my life. And a year

1110
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 2: or two later after them putting me through the songwriter ringer,

1111
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,720
Speaker 2: David actually produced my record and I'm like, oh my god,

1112
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 2: It's like, could it be any better? The president of

1113
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 2: the label is this producer of great piano music. He's

1114
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 2: running the label and this is going to be amazing.

1115
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 2: All my dreams are going to come true. And then

1116
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 2: the week my first single comes out, E my Records

1117
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 2: closes and and Virgin and Capital had opportunity to pick

1118
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:14,200
Speaker 2: up E and my bands, they both uh, they both

1119
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 2: passed on me. So I was back to uh, like

1120
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 2: so many artists, back to square one. But I kept

1121
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 2: writing and and and my wife kept sending out my demos,

1122
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 2: and there was a guy let's go back.

1123
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, after you graduate from college.

1124
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you have a day job Precision Wire? Precision Wire?

1125
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 2: Putting on a suit, going to Precision Wire. And the

1126
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 2: blessing was my dad got a guy really cheap uh

1127
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 2: to do a lot of work there to set up

1128
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 2: the financing for the new building. And I got the

1129
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: ability to go on any audition or to a studio.

1130
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 2: I actually built a studio. They're still there a Precision Wire.

1131
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 2: When you come, you know, if you ever want a tour,

1132
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 2: I'll show you how to make a shopping cart and

1133
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 2: and you can see my old studio. So so yeah,

1134
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 2: Precision Wire and my parents really gave me the freedom

1135
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 2: and ability to pursue music like so many people can't

1136
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: because they have to get a job, they have to

1137
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 2: pay their rent. So I was able to pay my

1138
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 2: rent and pursue my dream for years until I was

1139
01:09:16,720 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 2: in my mid to late twenties, still sending out demos,

1140
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:26,080
Speaker 2: still grinding, you know, after EMI closed, still reaching out

1141
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:26,599
Speaker 2: to other las.

1142
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: Okay, well, before before we get to ABI, when your

1143
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 1: wife sees you at Melrose and vine. How many years

1144
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 1: have you been doing it? How many years after college?

1145
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 2: That was probably a couple of years, So I was

1146
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 2: probably twenty four, twenty five years old.

1147
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: Okay, with Rudy Sarzo and John Scott. When does that start?

1148
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 1: When does that end?

1149
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 2: Yeah? That ended pretty pretty pretty quickly, as I said,

1150
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 2: kind of when Nirvana came out and all the hairbands.

1151
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,160
Speaker 2: Kind of that era ended that. We had a management,

1152
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 2: a manager who was actually managing bad company, and we

1153
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 2: had a couple record folks interested. But when that came out,

1154
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 2: when Nirvana came out, the whole thing collapsed. It went away.

1155
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 2: And again it was a blessing in disguise because I

1156
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 2: went back to the piano. You know, we were writing

1157
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 2: kind of nice pop rock songs. I think they were good.

1158
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,679
Speaker 2: I don't think there are anything special, but it put

1159
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 2: me back at the piano and I really started kind

1160
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 2: of writing what I would be, you know, the style

1161
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 2: that I would become.

1162
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: Okay, so how old are you when you start with

1163
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 1: Rudy Sarzo till we hit nineteen ninety one when Nirvana hits.

1164
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well, m yes, so yeah, I am like

1165
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 2: I'm like twenty four years old.

1166
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Are you doing this because of the opportunity

1167
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: or did you like that sound?

1168
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? I did like it, you know, I you know,

1169
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the kind of the pop rock band. I

1170
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:04,400
Speaker 2: love Journey, you know, I love Steve Perry, you know,

1171
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 2: I love Queen. They were all my favorite singers and

1172
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:11,400
Speaker 2: and idols and and I love Pat bennettar you know,

1173
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 2: so these kind of pop rock songs. I really enjoyed

1174
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 2: doing that. It really wasn't I think my you know,

1175
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 2: my high fastball, uh, because I think, really the piano

1176
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 2: the piano songs are But it was a great experience.

1177
01:11:25,360 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 2: I learned a lot from these guys. I learned a

1178
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 2: lot about production, I learned a lot about musicianship. But

1179
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think Nirvana probably did me a favor.

1180
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: So you're on of college a few years. What keeps

1181
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 1: you going? Why don't you give up?

1182
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: I think a lot of keys to success have nothing

1183
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:53,680
Speaker 2: to do with talent. It's really about will. And I

1184
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 2: was going off the cliff. I was right, and and

1185
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, I kind of did. I

1186
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 2: I kind of did. When E and I closed, you know,

1187
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,719
Speaker 2: I was again, I was in my kind of mid

1188
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 2: mid to you know, twenty six, twenty seven, and I'm like, Okay,

1189
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 2: it's probably not going to work at some point, I

1190
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:18,839
Speaker 2: gotta think about long term and a family. But my wife,

1191
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 2: my potential, you know, my future wife, Carla, unbeknownst to me,

1192
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,759
Speaker 2: was still standing out demos of old songs and basically

1193
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 2: lying saying, oh, John just wrote this new song, check

1194
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 2: it out. And she sent it to a guy named

1195
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:35,200
Speaker 2: Andy Martin who had a record company called Deep South Records,

1196
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 2: and he liked that. He liked my songs. And a

1197
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 2: competitor of his was a guy named Greg Latterman. Greg

1198
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 2: Latterman with Aware Records, and I think Aware they thought

1199
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 2: I was interesting. A guy named Steve Smith, who worked there,

1200
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 2: I think, was a big fan, and so Greg and

1201
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 2: Steve I think when they heard that Andy Martin might

1202
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 2: do this, they said, all right, we'll make a record

1203
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 2: with you. And and for me, I was just like,

1204
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:04,160
Speaker 2: let me just record these demos so I can have

1205
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 2: an album and I can play for my grandkids. One day,

1206
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,599
Speaker 2: we had fifty thousand dollars. We had to go into

1207
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 2: a studio at midnight because we couldn't afford the day rate.

1208
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 2: And Evan Lamberg at Emi Publishing connected me with a

1209
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 2: guitar player, songwriter, up and coming producer named Greg Wattenberg.

1210
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 2: And Greg and I kind of went into the studio

1211
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: at midnight, and we had this beautiful experience of just

1212
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 2: making a record that nobody knew who we were and

1213
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,839
Speaker 2: nobody was looking over our shoulders. And on that record

1214
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 2: we had a song called easy Tonight and a song

1215
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 2: called Superman, and Easy Tonight had enough success where it

1216
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:48,919
Speaker 2: got us to Superman, and then Superman became Superman.

1217
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: Okay, you're with aware, it's got to deal with the CBS. Sony.

1218
01:13:56,320 --> 01:14:00,680
Speaker 1: They ultimately had success with train John Mayer. What's the

1219
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:04,839
Speaker 1: timeline here? Latterman says, yes, how long to make the record?

1220
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:08,520
Speaker 1: How long until it comes out? How long till Superman reacts?

1221
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we took about a year to make the record,

1222
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 2: and nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety nine, and we took

1223
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:25,040
Speaker 2: Easy Tonight to Triple A Radio and it became a

1224
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:27,600
Speaker 2: number one song at Triple A. But of course we

1225
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,640
Speaker 2: sold no records. But what it did was get us

1226
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 2: on Donnie Einer's radar, Charlie Walks radar, and so they

1227
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:40,080
Speaker 2: came and said, all right, you know you can't sell records,

1228
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 2: but we'll give you another song. And I had seen

1229
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 2: kind of in my shows, whatever performances I was doing

1230
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 2: that Superman was reacting. People were moved by that song.

1231
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 2: And I suggested Superman and they were very resistant because again,

1232
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,719
Speaker 2: as you know, the piano was not on the radio

1233
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 2: in two thousand, No Billy Joel songs. The piano didn't exist.

1234
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,599
Speaker 2: But they kind of said, all right, you know whatever,

1235
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 2: if this is your swan song, so be it. So

1236
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 2: we went out with Superman and of course Greg worked

1237
01:15:11,120 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 2: very very hard, you know, you know, promoting and and

1238
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: and it's initially it was really struggling because it was different.

1239
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 2: And we got a call one day which was very strange,

1240
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 2: and they said, you know, Superman's number one in the

1241
01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 2: Philippines and we're like what. I'm like, how did that happen?

1242
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 2: Superman's No. One of the Philippines and uh. But we

1243
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 2: kept grinding, We kept grinding. The song kind of teetered

1244
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 2: and teetered, and of course, you know, I did every

1245
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:45,479
Speaker 2: you know, every conference room for every radio station, I

1246
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 2: kissed every ring, I went to every you know, all

1247
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,880
Speaker 2: around the country. And there was a couple promoted you know,

1248
01:15:50,920 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 2: back in the day, you know, programmers had a little

1249
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 2: more autonomy. And there was this one programmer, Cheris Furje.

1250
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:59,640
Speaker 2: She was in Vegas, ran the big Vegas hot a

1251
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 2: C station, and she really believed in my song. And

1252
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 2: you know, you know, we get to eight hundred spins,

1253
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 2: it's not testing. Thousand spins, it's not testing. And I

1254
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 2: would call Cheressa every week and say, hey, thank you

1255
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:12,680
Speaker 2: for giving it a shot. She says, I'm giving it

1256
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,679
Speaker 2: one more week. And then week one week she called

1257
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 2: and she said you're top five. And the next week

1258
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:20,479
Speaker 2: she said you're number one. And she had a big

1259
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,760
Speaker 2: mouth and she started talking to all her friends, and

1260
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,559
Speaker 2: then the song started testing and it was on its

1261
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,720
Speaker 2: way to you know, becoming a very popular song. I

1262
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,559
Speaker 2: was in and then they sent me to England because

1263
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: they were going to launch Superman in Europe. And I

1264
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 2: was in England, uh when nine to eleven happened.

1265
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: So what was that like? I mean, being in California

1266
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 1: was bad enough if you were if you were from

1267
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 1: New York. Being in England, I mean you couldn't fly back.

1268
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 2: It was horrible. I mean, like everybody else, you know,

1269
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 2: I was calling everybody. I knew in New York City

1270
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 2: and getting a busy signal, and and as you said,

1271
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 2: you know, we were stuck there for ten days. It

1272
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:05,280
Speaker 2: was actually me and a couple other artists, you know,

1273
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:07,200
Speaker 2: we were supposed to perform that night, and I'm like,

1274
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 2: there's no way in hell I'm going to play tonight.

1275
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 2: And we were you know, I sat in my hotel

1276
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 2: room for ten days trying to get back to America.

1277
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 2: And when I landed at o'haa, I literally kissed the

1278
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 2: tarmac because I was so you know, grateful to be home.

1279
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 2: And I didn't realize that Superman had become a song

1280
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 2: that many news organizations were using, you know, CNN to

1281
01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 2: as I said, recognize the heroes of nine to eleven.

1282
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:39,519
Speaker 2: And I didn't really understand what it had become. And then,

1283
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: you know, a few weeks later, I'm sure somebody, you know,

1284
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 2: somebody I love, Rick Krim, called me. Rick Krim, who

1285
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 2: you know, runs was running VH one at the time,

1286
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:52,760
Speaker 2: and he said, hey, man, you know your song's become

1287
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 2: this song and where Paul McCartney's doing this concert and

1288
01:17:56,040 --> 01:18:00,400
Speaker 2: would you want to play? And I didn't even know

1289
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:04,919
Speaker 2: what to say to that, And of course, I said, yeah,

1290
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 2: and but yeah because of Rick. You know, I played

1291
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 2: Superman at the concert for New York and I'll always

1292
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 2: be grateful to him for that.

1293
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:15,719
Speaker 1: So at this point when you're working, are you working

1294
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: solo or with a band.

1295
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, at this point, you know, we have we have

1296
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 2: a band. As soon as you know Superman took off.

1297
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:25,520
Speaker 2: You know, you have a lot of radio show obligations,

1298
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 2: you know, trying to build your touring, so I put

1299
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 2: together a rock band. You know, for three or four years,

1300
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 2: we were in the van, you know, carrying our gear,

1301
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:36,479
Speaker 2: setting up our gear, selling our own merch, you know,

1302
01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 2: kind of paying our dues, you know, through Easy Tonight

1303
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:43,240
Speaker 2: and all that. And then you know, when Superman broke,

1304
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:48,240
Speaker 2: I had the moment every every aspiring musician dreams of.

1305
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:51,200
Speaker 2: I had the moment where we went from the van

1306
01:18:51,479 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 2: to the bus. I was actually doing Larry King. I

1307
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 2: walked out of the van. I did Larry King in

1308
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 2: New York City, and I walked out of Larry King

1309
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:05,000
Speaker 2: onto our first tour bus. And from then on things

1310
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 2: were a little bit easier.

1311
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:17,360
Speaker 1: Okay, you have this success, now you have to make

1312
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: another record. Did you feel the pressure.

1313
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, it was quite the debacle. I mean, not

1314
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 2: only do you have to follow your first kind of

1315
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:32,200
Speaker 2: popular song, it's a song that has taken on the significance,

1316
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 2: So you know, how do you do that? And I

1317
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 2: got to be honest with you, it was a struggle.

1318
01:19:37,439 --> 01:19:41,439
Speaker 2: Because I'd had some success, I was able to actually

1319
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 2: have a budget, and I was able to record much

1320
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 2: of the next record, The Battle for Everything, with Bill Batrell.

1321
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,559
Speaker 2: I love Bill Batrell. I loved what he did with

1322
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:55,200
Speaker 2: Sheryl Crow. He had a studio out in Montecito on

1323
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 2: the beach. It was like a dream come true. You

1324
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 2: show up every day, record, you write, people bring you wine.

1325
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 2: You know, his girlfriend makes turkey pot pie. And and

1326
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,760
Speaker 2: I did that for like nine months, and the record

1327
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:15,919
Speaker 2: company came up to said listen, and they were not pleased.

1328
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:20,800
Speaker 2: They did not hear the next song. There was a

1329
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 2: lot of panic, a lot of anger, a lot of

1330
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 2: back and forth. And so that was that was, you know,

1331
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 2: not fun. It was, And but I also realized that

1332
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 2: I didn't have the song that could follow Superman, a

1333
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 2: song that was not Superman two, a song that could

1334
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 2: stand on its own. But I'd still to this day

1335
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 2: think the Battle for everything's probably my best record. So

1336
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 2: I kind of went we had that. I went back

1337
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:51,599
Speaker 2: home and for about a year, I just wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote,

1338
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 2: you know, song after song, and I'll never forget. One day,

1339
01:20:57,479 --> 01:20:59,719
Speaker 2: I had this little kind of upright in this little

1340
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 2: room in my house, and I would just kind of

1341
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 2: get up at six of the morning, nine pound pound pound,

1342
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:06,800
Speaker 2: and the monkey on my back was growing and the

1343
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 2: pressure was growing, and I had this idea for a song,

1344
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 2: and my wife, you know, kind of came in. I said,

1345
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 2: let me play you something, and so I started playing

1346
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 2: her kind of a sketch of hundred years and I'll

1347
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:21,400
Speaker 2: never forget. I kind of after I played it, I

1348
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,880
Speaker 2: turned to see her in the doorway and tears were

1349
01:21:23,920 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 2: running down her face. And I remember thinking, well, either

1350
01:21:27,479 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 2: I wrote a hit or my career is over. I

1351
01:21:29,520 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 2: don't know which one. But but fortunately that that song,

1352
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, kind of took out the one hit.

1353
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:41,839
Speaker 1: Wonder Okay, that runs its course. What about the next record?

1354
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, the next you know, after those

1355
01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 2: two songs, I really never had that level of success.

1356
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,360
Speaker 2: I you know, I had songs that you know, there

1357
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 2: were top ten hot AC songs. I had a song

1358
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: called the Riddle, which which did well. It's you know,

1359
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:01,800
Speaker 2: I think Columbia thought that it would be you know,

1360
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 2: another Superman hundred years. It wasn't. And but you know,

1361
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:11,000
Speaker 2: we sold enough records to keep making another one, and

1362
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 2: and kind of every subsequent record, I had a song

1363
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:17,680
Speaker 2: that again was a top ten hot acy. So I

1364
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:20,000
Speaker 2: had a song called Chances, which was the entitle of

1365
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:22,519
Speaker 2: the blind Side. And I wasn't a guy who sold

1366
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 2: a ton of records for the label, but I was

1367
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:26,959
Speaker 2: a big licensing guy, so you know, they could license

1368
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:30,559
Speaker 2: the songs. That was back in the day when you know,

1369
01:22:31,320 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 2: people were spending crazy money to license songs. So that

1370
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,760
Speaker 2: kind of kept me afloat at Columbia. And I was,

1371
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 2: you know, I was fortunate to make you know, three

1372
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,800
Speaker 2: more records there. None of them kind of had the

1373
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 2: success of Superman one hundred years, but but they were

1374
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:47,080
Speaker 2: enough to you know, to pay the bills for them

1375
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:50,960
Speaker 2: and make it worthwhile. And then and I was able

1376
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 2: to tour and kind of live the dream and and

1377
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:58,880
Speaker 2: write for films and and do side projects and and

1378
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 2: you know, and play hockey games and that stuff. And

1379
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 2: then after five records, you know, they kind of said,

1380
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 2: you know we're done and I understand that, and and

1381
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: I went to wind up Records.

1382
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 1: Who whoao? In the hindsight, that's easy to say, yeah,

1383
01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:16,639
Speaker 1: but when you're told you how did you find out

1384
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,599
Speaker 1: you were dropped? Literally? And then how did it feel

1385
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 1: at the.

1386
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 2: Time, you know, it was it was like any you know,

1387
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 2: it was terrible. It was terrible. You know, Greg told

1388
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 2: me that they're not going to pick me up and

1389
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 2: do another record. I actually, you know, threw a tantrum

1390
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 2: and I said screw you, and I bought the record back.

1391
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 2: I bought the Slice record back, which you know, was

1392
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 2: pretty stupid of me, but it was emotional and I'm like,

1393
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 2: I'm going to go take this and screw you. But

1394
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 2: I you know, I remember there was there was there

1395
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:54,040
Speaker 2: was a moment I was kind of driving by myself

1396
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 2: through from in middle of Texas to a radio station,

1397
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,720
Speaker 2: you know, probably Market two hundred and three to try

1398
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 2: to get five spins for a song, and one hundred

1399
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 2: years came on the radio and I'm like, oh my god,

1400
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:10,000
Speaker 2: you know, here we are, you know, welcome to the doubt,

1401
01:24:10,080 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 2: the downslide of the roller coaster. But yeah, you know,

1402
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:16,760
Speaker 2: it's it's it's very hard. It's you know, you go

1403
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,760
Speaker 2: into a funk, you're depressed. But you know, the nice

1404
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 2: thing is I had my wife, and I had Precision Wire,

1405
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 2: and I had things in my life that weren't just

1406
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:27,439
Speaker 2: only music related. My whole kind of self esteem was

1407
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:31,200
Speaker 2: not wrapped up into you know, having another hit song.

1408
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:35,000
Speaker 2: And so many of my you know, my fellow kind

1409
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:37,720
Speaker 2: of musicians of the two thousands, we all kind of

1410
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:41,400
Speaker 2: hit that wall at some point. But yeah, it sucked,

1411
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah it sucked.

1412
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:45,840
Speaker 1: And then what was your experience like it wind up?

1413
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:50,760
Speaker 2: It was wonderful. Ed Vetri just a wonderful guy. I

1414
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 2: loved ed you know, he was all about musicians. They'd

1415
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 2: had so much success and Greg Wattenberg being one of

1416
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:01,200
Speaker 2: the principles there kind of run winds up and we

1417
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 2: got to make one more record, which I'm so glad

1418
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 2: we did because you know what I didn't tell you

1419
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 2: about the Battle for Everything was when the Bill Betrell

1420
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 2: record kind of hit the wall, I had one hundred

1421
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:16,680
Speaker 2: years and I went back to Greg and I said, hey, man,

1422
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 2: I really like you to do this with me. And

1423
01:25:20,240 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 2: to his credit, he was willing to do that because

1424
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:26,320
Speaker 2: you know, he wasn't happy with me going to Bill Betrell.

1425
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,160
Speaker 2: He's like, look, man, we just made this hit song

1426
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:31,240
Speaker 2: and you're leaving. And in a sense he was right.

1427
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 2: I I you know, I was maybe feeling my oats,

1428
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:39,599
Speaker 2: and to Greg's credit, he said, yeah, you know, let's

1429
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 2: do it. And Greg, you know, his mastery at creating

1430
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 2: pop song hits not just for me, but for training

1431
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:50,639
Speaker 2: and many other people, he was willing to do that,

1432
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 2: and I'm always be grateful for him. So so to

1433
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:56,400
Speaker 2: go back and make a full record with Greg at

1434
01:25:56,439 --> 01:25:59,559
Speaker 2: wind Up and just have those those nights in the

1435
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 2: studio and the jokes and the laughs and the fun,

1436
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 2: I really treasure that and and I'll always be grateful

1437
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:09,280
Speaker 2: to him because he is certainly a master of what

1438
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:10,280
Speaker 2: he does.

1439
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,599
Speaker 1: Now you don't cut another studio album after that.

1440
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was kind of I was kind

1441
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 2: of looking to do other things. I kind of saw

1442
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,599
Speaker 2: the writing on the wall of there's so much that

1443
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 2: goes into making a record and promoting a record, and

1444
01:26:26,760 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 2: what's the real return. I'd always wanted to write a musical,

1445
01:26:31,640 --> 01:26:35,720
Speaker 2: so I actually had the opportunity to work with some

1446
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:41,719
Speaker 2: alan Zwibel, Glenn Slater, some great musical writers. We actually

1447
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 2: were hired to write Field of Dreams, which for me

1448
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 2: was a wonderful experience. I grew up on musical theater.

1449
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:56,400
Speaker 2: I'd written some songs with Stephen Schwartz, the amazing Iconic Broadway,

1450
01:26:56,560 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 2: you know, genius behind Wicked and Godspell. So I had

1451
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 2: a great affy for musical theater. And we actually spent

1452
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 2: a year writing i know, eight or nine songs for

1453
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:10,000
Speaker 2: Field of Dreams, and Alan wrote a great kind of book,

1454
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 2: and like sometimes happens in that world, the thing blew

1455
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:17,680
Speaker 2: up overnight and I learned my lesson. It was it

1456
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:21,120
Speaker 2: was my records all over again. But I was also

1457
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 2: able to write, you know, some songs for film and

1458
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:28,479
Speaker 2: and and also frankly, I did a lot outside of music.

1459
01:27:28,520 --> 01:27:30,880
Speaker 2: You know. My dad was getting older, and I started

1460
01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:34,040
Speaker 2: putting much more time at Precision Wire, and I started

1461
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 2: doing symphony shows. I started doing keynotes, which to this

1462
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 2: day is something I love to do, you know, Ted

1463
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 2: talks and keynotes and kind of learning about companies and

1464
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:47,440
Speaker 2: speaking to people and trying to share kind of my

1465
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:50,080
Speaker 2: my business acumen with some of my songs. So I

1466
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 2: had these other things going on, but I do regret,

1467
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 2: you know, not kind of making another record, and you know,

1468
01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 2: maybe there's still that the future, you know, for folks

1469
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:02,599
Speaker 2: who still remember what records are.

1470
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:09,360
Speaker 1: Okay, you have this big hit with Superman. There's publishing

1471
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 1: and then there's record royalties. Do you ever get a

1472
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 1: record royalty?

1473
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:19,559
Speaker 2: No, nope. The budget for the Superman video was four

1474
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:25,639
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That's as you know, that's

1475
01:28:25,680 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 2: what they were spending back there. They you know, however

1476
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:31,000
Speaker 2: they do their accounting. I will never see a penny

1477
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:33,080
Speaker 2: from record sales. I think we've probably sold, you know,

1478
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 2: maybe two and a half million records, which is amazing.

1479
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 2: But they did spend a lot of money because it

1480
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 2: wasn't a band, you know, so there was a lot

1481
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 2: of tour support and so no, I never, I never,

1482
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:49,600
Speaker 2: and I never will receive money from record sales. But

1483
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:54,839
Speaker 2: fortunately for me, you know, I wrote I wrote Superman

1484
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 2: one hundred years myself, and and those songs have been

1485
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 2: very lucrative. And you own those songs, yes, sir.

1486
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:05,040
Speaker 1: And with the insanity of the last handful of years,

1487
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:08,559
Speaker 1: has anybody ever approached you or you ever thought about

1488
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:09,520
Speaker 1: selling them?

1489
01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:16,960
Speaker 2: Yes, I get approached a lot. I really like having

1490
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 2: control over my songs I've seen, especially one hundred years

1491
01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 2: in Superman, you know, have been very important in many

1492
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 2: causes that are important to me. Als are troops, and

1493
01:29:30,439 --> 01:29:31,800
Speaker 2: I like to be able to say I'm going to

1494
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:35,519
Speaker 2: license that for free, and and I like to be

1495
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,280
Speaker 2: able to do that. And I've been with Cobalt for

1496
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 2: the last six seven years and they've been great about

1497
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 2: just you know, hey, if it's a gratis license, no problem.

1498
01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,559
Speaker 2: So and at the same time, you know, I think

1499
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 2: my catalog, it's it's certainly real money. It's it's not like,

1500
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna lay on a beach for thirty

1501
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 2: years money. So yeah, So I've been approached, but I

1502
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:04,200
Speaker 2: just like having my songs and maybe one day, you know,

1503
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:06,840
Speaker 2: if they're still worth anything, you know, my kids will

1504
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 2: sell them, but I like keeping them.

1505
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:12,720
Speaker 1: How many licenses or sinks do you get in the year.

1506
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:17,680
Speaker 2: Not as many as I used to, maybe, you know,

1507
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:21,640
Speaker 2: maybe five to ten. I also kind of write songs,

1508
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:24,320
Speaker 2: you know, to projects. I wrote a song called All

1509
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 2: for One that was the the one hundredth episode of

1510
01:30:28,240 --> 01:30:31,200
Speaker 2: Hawai Fi O and their their their entitle for their

1511
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 2: last their last episode. So every once in a while,

1512
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 2: I'll write a song for a film. I have a

1513
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,240
Speaker 2: couple movies kind of that I that I've developed with

1514
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,719
Speaker 2: a couple of friends of mine that that have been bought.

1515
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:47,920
Speaker 2: We'll see if they get made. But back in the day, yeah,

1516
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 2: I mean I probably have you know, two hundred and

1517
01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:56,080
Speaker 2: fifty three hundred licenses under my belt, which is pretty nuts.

1518
01:30:55,880 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 1: And generally speaking, has income going down stay or going up?

1519
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:03,960
Speaker 2: No, it's gone down, you know, I think every year.

1520
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 2: But it hasn't gone down as much as you know,

1521
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:12,320
Speaker 2: as I would think the certainly Superman in one hundred years.

1522
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:16,759
Speaker 2: Still you hear within the culture people are still making

1523
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 2: home movies to those songs and graduations, particularly hundred years

1524
01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 2: Superman was just used in a big TV use this year.

1525
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:30,720
Speaker 2: So they still kind of you know, are lucrative and

1526
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 2: and the rest of the catgalog too kind of you know,

1527
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 2: still kind of has some interest from folks and so yeah,

1528
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:41,200
Speaker 2: but yeah, of course, you know, it's gone down, I mean,

1529
01:31:41,479 --> 01:31:49,200
Speaker 2: and that's sad. With kind of streaming and Shazam, there's

1530
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:53,880
Speaker 2: a whole new generation of kids finding these songs, you know,

1531
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:56,759
Speaker 2: that have never heard them before. I have kids seventeen

1532
01:31:56,800 --> 01:31:58,559
Speaker 2: years old at my concerts who weren't alive when I

1533
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:01,400
Speaker 2: wrote them. So, you know, that's also pretty cool and

1534
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,680
Speaker 2: surreal and superman.

1535
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 1: I know you've been asked this question a lot, but

1536
01:32:08,360 --> 01:32:11,160
Speaker 1: are you the type of person who hammers the song

1537
01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:14,080
Speaker 1: out or there's a burst of inspiration? How did you

1538
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:15,120
Speaker 1: create that song?

1539
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:19,800
Speaker 2: That song was a gift. I basically wrote the whole

1540
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:23,280
Speaker 2: thing in an hour. At the time, I didn't think

1541
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:25,839
Speaker 2: it was for me. I you know, I was fancy

1542
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 2: myself as a rock guy. But when I played it

1543
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 2: for Greg, he kept kept insisting we put it on

1544
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 2: the record. But that's you know, the joke is, I've

1545
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 2: been looking for that you know hour ever since, because

1546
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,760
Speaker 2: whatever it was was a gift, and of course you

1547
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:45,800
Speaker 2: write thousands of songs to try to find that hour.

1548
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,639
Speaker 2: You know, I wrote thousands of songs before Superman. I've

1549
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:52,720
Speaker 2: probably written a thousand or two since then. But you know,

1550
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,519
Speaker 2: I think that sentiment of it's not easy to be

1551
01:32:55,640 --> 01:33:01,519
Speaker 2: me when you're kind of a young writer, know, hitting

1552
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:03,519
Speaker 2: the wall of the music business. Like so many who

1553
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:08,240
Speaker 2: listen to your podcast, everybody understands that desire just to

1554
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 2: be heard, and that was me. I just I just

1555
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 2: wanted to be heard. If nobody wanted to hear me

1556
01:33:14,400 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 2: after that, that's fine, And that was kind of the

1557
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,200
Speaker 2: inspiration for Superman. It's certainly not a song I could

1558
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:22,519
Speaker 2: write now. It's certainly easy to be me, It's easy

1559
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:24,880
Speaker 2: to be most of us. But that was the sentiment

1560
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:26,360
Speaker 2: of that song, and I think that's why it resonates.

1561
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 2: You know, a funny story about Superman. When it started

1562
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 2: to become popular, Columbia Records came to me and said,

1563
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:35,400
Speaker 2: you know, John, something really weird is happening with your song.

1564
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:38,240
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what are you talking about. They're like,

1565
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:41,559
Speaker 2: adults are buying your song. I'm like, what do you mean,

1566
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 2: adults are buying my song? They like, yeah, people in

1567
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:48,120
Speaker 2: their thirties and forties are buying your song. And I'm like,

1568
01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:50,840
Speaker 2: what the hell are you talking about. But you know,

1569
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:53,320
Speaker 2: in retrospect, you know, it makes sense. You know, who

1570
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:57,719
Speaker 2: buys records teenagers? But why were adults buying Superman? Because

1571
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:01,599
Speaker 2: I think adults, especially men men, never buy music. You know,

1572
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:04,759
Speaker 2: the whole theme of we can't be everything for everyone.

1573
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 2: You know, My Superman is different than all the other

1574
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 2: Superman songs. My Superman is you know, I can't stand

1575
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:12,559
Speaker 2: a fly who wouldn't want to fly? People? Don't you know?

1576
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,360
Speaker 2: My song is Superman doesn't want to be Superman because

1577
01:34:15,400 --> 01:34:18,000
Speaker 2: we can't be everything for everybody. So I think that

1578
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:21,799
Speaker 2: sentiment really resonated with adults, and the song was different

1579
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 2: in that way. But again, I still love playing it

1580
01:34:25,439 --> 01:34:27,680
Speaker 2: every night. I love playing one hundred years every night.

1581
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 2: I don't get sick of it. There's always a reason

1582
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:33,400
Speaker 2: to do it. There's always someone in the audience that's

1583
01:34:33,600 --> 01:34:35,439
Speaker 2: going to see it and sing it just one time

1584
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 2: in their life. So it's I am truly grateful for

1585
01:34:38,920 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 2: both those songs.

1586
01:34:40,640 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 1: And you have this music challenge tell us about that.

1587
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:47,920
Speaker 2: Oh thank you for mentioning that. Yeah, it's called the

1588
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:52,360
Speaker 2: Music Matters Challenge, and it's a national music contest to

1589
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,160
Speaker 2: raise awareness for music in the schools. We've already talked

1590
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:57,800
Speaker 2: about my mom coming in and kind of being a

1591
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:01,519
Speaker 2: music teacher for our school that lost a music teacher.

1592
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:04,519
Speaker 2: And the challenge was inspired by a song I wrote

1593
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:07,080
Speaker 2: with some Chicago inner city kids last year. They'd lost

1594
01:35:07,080 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 2: their music teacher. They were not musicians, they were just students,

1595
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 2: and we wrote a song called let music film My world.

1596
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 1: Wait were a little bit slower. How does that come

1597
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,879
Speaker 1: to pass that you're writing a song with kids in Chicago.

1598
01:35:18,400 --> 01:35:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, an amazing family in Chicago called the Tallman family

1599
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:26,360
Speaker 2: does a lot of great work with the schools in Chicago,

1600
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:28,679
Speaker 2: and they had helped fund some of my Afghan work,

1601
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 2: some of my Ukraine work, and we were talking about

1602
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 2: how can we do something for music in the schools

1603
01:35:35,920 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 2: and I told I told Kaylee Tallman about my experience

1604
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:41,639
Speaker 2: with my mom, and I said, you know, let's find

1605
01:35:41,640 --> 01:35:45,040
Speaker 2: some kids, let's write a song, and let's fund a

1606
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 2: music teacher for a school in need. And they did.

1607
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:50,880
Speaker 2: We funded a teacher for three years at a quarter

1608
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 2: million dollars, and now Farragut Academy has a music teacher.

1609
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:57,680
Speaker 2: And through that effort, we said, well, let's take this nationally.

1610
01:35:58,280 --> 01:36:00,240
Speaker 2: And that's what the Music Matters Challenge is. This is

1611
01:36:00,240 --> 01:36:04,479
Speaker 2: where anybody, everybody, you, bob, could make a video talk

1612
01:36:04,520 --> 01:36:08,160
Speaker 2: about a music teacher that mattered to you, sing a

1613
01:36:08,200 --> 01:36:10,240
Speaker 2: little bit of a let music film my world. People

1614
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:14,840
Speaker 2: upload their videos and then the winner will win ten

1615
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 2: thousand dollars and will provide a music teacher again for

1616
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:21,559
Speaker 2: a school in need, with the winner for three hundred

1617
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 2: grand and three years. But it's really an effort to

1618
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 2: raise awareness for the four million kids in America who

1619
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:27,559
Speaker 2: do not have a music teacher.

1620
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned that the Tolmans helped you financially with

1621
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:37,439
Speaker 1: Ukraine and Afghanistan. How did you meet these people? How

1622
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:39,800
Speaker 1: hard was it to get the money? What did the

1623
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 1: money actually go for? Yeah?

1624
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:47,080
Speaker 2: I actually for many years I've done keynotes for a

1625
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:52,360
Speaker 2: group called the YPO. It's the Young President's Organizations, a

1626
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 2: group with chapters all across the nation with young presidents

1627
01:36:57,080 --> 01:37:01,680
Speaker 2: under forty who run big companies. And Glen Tolman was

1628
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,519
Speaker 2: one of those folks I met years ago. And when

1629
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:09,599
Speaker 2: I was doing this work for Afghanistan and particularly Ukraine,

1630
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 2: it was very expensive to go to Ukraine. I kind

1631
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:16,040
Speaker 2: of fund all these myself, so the Ukraine, you know,

1632
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 2: going over there, he you know, he gave us a

1633
01:37:21,080 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 2: little bit of a donation to help with some of

1634
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:27,240
Speaker 2: the funding. They're just an amazing family that do incredible

1635
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:31,080
Speaker 2: things and I'm honored to partner with them on these projects.

1636
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:36,360
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about doing these keynotes, is this a business?

1637
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:39,040
Speaker 1: Do you have an agent? Do you do it X

1638
01:37:39,160 --> 01:37:41,120
Speaker 1: number of times a year or is it once in

1639
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:42,040
Speaker 1: the blue moon.

1640
01:37:43,080 --> 01:37:46,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. The nice thing about having a music agent Larry Webman,

1641
01:37:47,240 --> 01:37:49,720
Speaker 2: you know Ed Wasserman who's incredible and been with me,

1642
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:54,479
Speaker 2: you know, for many years, and his associate Max. The

1643
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 2: nice thing about having a music agent is that you

1644
01:37:56,439 --> 01:37:59,200
Speaker 2: can work through all of the speakers bureaus. So there's

1645
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:03,480
Speaker 2: three or four Speeders bureaus that we work with that

1646
01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 2: that hire me to come do keynotes. Sometimes it's for companies,

1647
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:15,280
Speaker 2: sometimes it's for organizations, sometimes it's sometimes it's for schools.

1648
01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:18,360
Speaker 2: And I probably do you know, six to seven years.

1649
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:21,280
Speaker 2: I was just in New York. Actually I did one

1650
01:38:21,320 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 2: for all of the federal judges. There was one hundred

1651
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 2: federal judges there and a lot of the the the

1652
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:35,519
Speaker 2: lawyers who handle the trademarks and the intellectual property. Black

1653
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:40,120
Speaker 2: tie event very prestigious in New York City, and uh

1654
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:42,519
Speaker 2: I got to you know, speak and talk to them,

1655
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 2: which meant a lot to me because my aunt is

1656
01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:47,639
Speaker 2: a is a Pelli Court judge. So I meet incredible people,

1657
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:51,800
Speaker 2: I learn about these organizations, and I really enjoy doing it.

1658
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:54,760
Speaker 2: And as I said, I probably do five or six

1659
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:55,120
Speaker 2: a year.

1660
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:58,040
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the pitch to hire you.

1661
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:04,519
Speaker 2: What kind of world do you want? How does music

1662
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:08,679
Speaker 2: and inspiration and where do where do songs come from?

1663
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 2: How do you mix creativity with your business acumen? But

1664
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:14,920
Speaker 2: you know, we kind of pitch it more to the

1665
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:18,200
Speaker 2: to the client depending on what they do. But look,

1666
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:21,719
Speaker 2: here's the thing that's cool. Nobody knows who I am,

1667
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,320
Speaker 2: but they know Superman, they know hundred Years. So here's

1668
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,240
Speaker 2: a guy that can talk about running a family business

1669
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 2: and selling shopping carts and also how do you write

1670
01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:36,320
Speaker 2: a song? So I'm certainly not you know Schwartz Cough

1671
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:38,680
Speaker 2: or you know Peyton Manning or the guys who do

1672
01:39:38,760 --> 01:39:42,680
Speaker 2: these speeches. But but I think people get something out

1673
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 2: of it because it's interesting to know where do songs

1674
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:47,320
Speaker 2: come from? What is that creative process? What does it

1675
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:51,320
Speaker 2: take to have that you know, spark of inspiration to

1676
01:39:51,439 --> 01:39:53,720
Speaker 2: write a song like you know Superman or hundred Years.

1677
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:55,719
Speaker 2: You know, I've had it happen two or three times.

1678
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:59,400
Speaker 2: You know, Paul McCartney has it happened pretty every every Thursday.

1679
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 2: So so you know, for me, I think that's what

1680
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:05,240
Speaker 2: people are interested in the creative process and how can

1681
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:06,360
Speaker 2: that apply to their business?

1682
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 1: Okay, if I see you with the judges last week,

1683
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:14,280
Speaker 1: and I see you at some Companies confab in June.

1684
01:40:14,280 --> 01:40:15,679
Speaker 1: Am I going to get the same speech?

1685
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 2: Good question. The middle of it will be the same,

1686
01:40:20,439 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 2: but the opening will always be different. It will always

1687
01:40:23,320 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 2: be tailored to the audience, to the business, to what

1688
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:29,320
Speaker 2: we're talking about, and the end will always be different.

1689
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:31,680
Speaker 2: And in the end, I play my song World that

1690
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:34,160
Speaker 2: talks about what kind of world do you want? And

1691
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:36,559
Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with music. It's really talks

1692
01:40:36,600 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 2: about kind of ourselves, our well being, the world we're

1693
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 2: we're in, and how we take care of ourselves and

1694
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:45,679
Speaker 2: how the how we need to take care of ourselves

1695
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,960
Speaker 2: first before we take care of others. So the middle

1696
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:52,760
Speaker 2: of the of the keynote is pretty standard. But I

1697
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:56,240
Speaker 2: always try to learn as much about the people I

1698
01:40:56,320 --> 01:40:58,200
Speaker 2: talk to as they learn about me.

1699
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 1: And how much preper we require.

1700
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:05,759
Speaker 2: A certainly more than playing a concert. You know, probably

1701
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 2: probably maybe you know, eight to ten hours of learning

1702
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 2: the count, learn about the content company. I talked to

1703
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:18,599
Speaker 2: the client, we have a phone call, I do my research.

1704
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:21,000
Speaker 2: I kind of prepare my remarks. You know this. You

1705
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:23,479
Speaker 2: need to memorize this stuff. You can't be reading notes.

1706
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:26,120
Speaker 2: So maybe not that much. Maybe you know, maybe you

1707
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:29,120
Speaker 2: know six to eight hours and I've done this enough

1708
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:31,439
Speaker 2: now that that I can kind of I kind of

1709
01:41:31,439 --> 01:41:34,160
Speaker 2: got a groove in it. But it is a lot

1710
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:34,519
Speaker 2: of fun.

1711
01:41:35,320 --> 01:41:39,760
Speaker 1: Okay. So therefore, are you riffing off the top of

1712
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:41,840
Speaker 1: your head or have you literally memorized it?

1713
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:45,760
Speaker 2: I think you, uh, it's interesting. I kind of went

1714
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:48,519
Speaker 2: through this through my speech at UCLA. I think the

1715
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:50,559
Speaker 2: best way to do it is you you kind of

1716
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:53,880
Speaker 2: know your talking points, you have an outline, you know

1717
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:56,760
Speaker 2: what you want to hit. You don't want to basically

1718
01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:00,960
Speaker 2: learn lines because it then it sounds ripped. It So

1719
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:03,439
Speaker 2: you want to be kind of relaxed, You want to

1720
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:06,000
Speaker 2: be in the moment, but you need to hit your marks.

1721
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:08,240
Speaker 2: So that's kind of how it is for me when

1722
01:42:08,240 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 2: I have my notes that I'm prepping. It's not a

1723
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:14,640
Speaker 2: script that I just read. It's it's an outline. I

1724
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:16,759
Speaker 2: need to start here, I need to hit this point

1725
01:42:17,080 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 2: at this point, maybe tell this joke. But also, it's

1726
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 2: like performing at a show. You let your audience, you know,

1727
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:27,240
Speaker 2: give you feedback, and you kind of roll with what

1728
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:31,599
Speaker 2: they're doing. And there's not a lot of difference between

1729
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:35,160
Speaker 2: doing a keynote and doing a rock show, frankly, because

1730
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:37,479
Speaker 2: you are feeding off the audience. You're seeing what's working

1731
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:40,040
Speaker 2: in real time, you're seeing what's not working. You adjust

1732
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:44,040
Speaker 2: on the fly. But of course, you know, you know,

1733
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:47,320
Speaker 2: you have your pillars of your set or your speech,

1734
01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:49,080
Speaker 2: and you make sure you hit those.

1735
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 1: Okay, you stop making records with wind up and you

1736
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:58,759
Speaker 1: talk about writing a musical, et cetera. Are you playing

1737
01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:01,719
Speaker 1: live throughout this or if you stopped for a while.

1738
01:43:02,200 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 2: No, we're still touring. You know. I started doing a

1739
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:07,599
Speaker 2: lot more string quartet shows.

1740
01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:11,160
Speaker 1: I was doing so a little bit slower. How does

1741
01:43:11,160 --> 01:43:14,080
Speaker 1: the string quartet come together? How does that idea come

1742
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:15,640
Speaker 1: to you in execution?

1743
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? I started doing symphony shows kind of i'd say,

1744
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:26,160
Speaker 2: you know a little over ten years ago, which was amazing.

1745
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 2: It was kind of rebirth for me. I've had the

1746
01:43:30,080 --> 01:43:35,080
Speaker 2: blessing to work with incredible composers George del Barrio, go

1747
01:43:35,160 --> 01:43:37,280
Speaker 2: down the list, and so I have a lot of

1748
01:43:37,560 --> 01:43:40,280
Speaker 2: songs that I wouldn't necessarily play in a rock show

1749
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:44,639
Speaker 2: that I can play with the string with the symphony,

1750
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:48,120
Speaker 2: and those went so well. I wanted to take that

1751
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 2: experience to smaller markets. So I formed a string quartet

1752
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 2: amazing Broadway players, just prodigy players, and for a decade

1753
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 2: now I do probably in the spring and the fall,

1754
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:06,519
Speaker 2: I will do a string quartet tour. I just finished

1755
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:09,680
Speaker 2: one last week. So it's just me the string quartet

1756
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:13,000
Speaker 2: and we go to smaller venues. It's an intimate show,

1757
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:16,400
Speaker 2: it's a storytelling show. But they alone are worth the

1758
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:19,080
Speaker 2: price of admission. My violin player Katie just won a

1759
01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 2: Tony Award, and they inspire me every night. You know,

1760
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:25,280
Speaker 2: they take they take, I think, the songs to a

1761
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 2: completely new level. So that's kind of been the drill.

1762
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:32,000
Speaker 2: You know, string quartet in the spring, rock band in

1763
01:44:32,040 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 2: the summer, string quartet during the fall, and maybe you

1764
01:44:36,520 --> 01:44:39,559
Speaker 2: know through keynote, few keynotes. So probably fifty shows a year.

1765
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:43,800
Speaker 1: Okay, you have these symphony shows. Are you sitting at

1766
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:46,960
Speaker 1: home or Larry sitting in the office and the phone rings?

1767
01:44:46,960 --> 01:44:48,120
Speaker 1: How did they come to pass?

1768
01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:51,000
Speaker 2: That's a good question. But there are you know, there

1769
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:54,320
Speaker 2: are symphonies out there that do look for for pop

1770
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:57,960
Speaker 2: artists to come play, and they're few and far between.

1771
01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:00,679
Speaker 2: That's kind of why we started doing the Court because

1772
01:45:00,680 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 2: you may get two symphony shows a year, I'm doing

1773
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:07,200
Speaker 2: one this year, and you know, but with the quartets,

1774
01:45:07,280 --> 01:45:10,640
Speaker 2: you can go into pretty much any market and do

1775
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:13,519
Speaker 2: five hundred to one thousand seats, and frankly, for me,

1776
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 2: it's it's my favorite way to perform because it really

1777
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:20,320
Speaker 2: is an intimate show. It's a storytelling show, and you

1778
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 2: can play virtually every song off you know, off your

1779
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 2: your album. So at the same time, I'm stoked to

1780
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:29,680
Speaker 2: go out with my rock band in two weeks, you know,

1781
01:45:29,760 --> 01:45:31,599
Speaker 2: and get back in the bus with the boys and

1782
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:34,799
Speaker 2: you know, turn up the amps and you know, close

1783
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:37,160
Speaker 2: with Bohemian Rhapsody. You know, that's fun too.

1784
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,680
Speaker 1: And you go out with your band. You obviously are

1785
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:44,280
Speaker 1: the headliner in these smaller quartet shows, but when you

1786
01:45:44,280 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 1: go out the band, you tend to go alone. You

1787
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:48,759
Speaker 1: you an opening act, closing act.

1788
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 2: Good question. We pretty much alternate. As I said, last

1789
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:54,360
Speaker 2: year we were at with the Baar Naked Ladies, which

1790
01:45:54,439 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 2: was just amazing because their audiences are fantastic, they are

1791
01:45:58,360 --> 01:46:01,920
Speaker 2: wonderful humans, and you get to play for five thousand

1792
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:04,439
Speaker 2: to ten thousand people a night, so you get to,

1793
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:08,880
Speaker 2: you know, play rock star and have that experience. And

1794
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:12,400
Speaker 2: then this year we'll we'll headline, but we'll play smaller venues,

1795
01:46:13,720 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 2: hopefully follow up some some of the markets we did

1796
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:18,280
Speaker 2: with The Bear Naked Ladies, and I imagine next summer

1797
01:46:18,320 --> 01:46:21,479
Speaker 2: we'll probably open again. So we kind of go back

1798
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 2: and forth. You know, we're certainly not at a level

1799
01:46:23,880 --> 01:46:27,040
Speaker 2: where we can where we can headline, you know, five

1800
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:30,479
Speaker 2: thousand seat sheds. There's a few markets we can you know,

1801
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:33,000
Speaker 2: do a few thousand people, but we've never really risen

1802
01:46:33,160 --> 01:46:35,400
Speaker 2: to that level of a touring act.

1803
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:38,880
Speaker 1: Okay, when you go out with either the quartet or

1804
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:43,080
Speaker 1: with your rock band, the bus picks you up and

1805
01:46:43,120 --> 01:46:45,200
Speaker 1: the bus drops you off when the tour is over

1806
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:46,879
Speaker 1: or you're going home in between.

1807
01:46:48,200 --> 01:46:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the quartet, we're just in a sprinter We

1808
01:46:51,680 --> 01:46:54,160
Speaker 2: don't you know, we really don't have the bus. We

1809
01:46:54,200 --> 01:46:56,800
Speaker 2: really can't afford it. It's kind of a break even

1810
01:46:56,840 --> 01:47:00,200
Speaker 2: proposition for me. For the band will definitely you know,

1811
01:47:00,720 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 2: we'll start in the bus, we'll go, we'll run the

1812
01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:07,040
Speaker 2: tour and we'll be done. We don't go out that long.

1813
01:47:07,080 --> 01:47:08,559
Speaker 2: I mean, the Bare Naked Ladies for us was a

1814
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:10,479
Speaker 2: long run. We're out for six weeks, which for me

1815
01:47:10,560 --> 01:47:12,680
Speaker 2: is a long run. This year will only be out

1816
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:16,559
Speaker 2: three weeks. So yeah, we kind of just pop on

1817
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:20,280
Speaker 2: the bus, get through the tour, hopefully the voice survives,

1818
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:23,719
Speaker 2: and then you know, have my first glass of whiskey

1819
01:47:23,760 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 2: on the last night after the show.

1820
01:47:26,360 --> 01:47:28,720
Speaker 1: Why is it your first glass of whiskey at the

1821
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:29,320
Speaker 1: end of the.

1822
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:32,599
Speaker 2: Tour, Because with my voice, I have to be very

1823
01:47:32,760 --> 01:47:36,719
Speaker 2: very careful my voice, the way I kind of sing

1824
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:40,360
Speaker 2: in the falsetto there throughout my whole career. I actually

1825
01:47:40,360 --> 01:47:42,840
Speaker 2: had an injury when I was in my twenties. I

1826
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:47,400
Speaker 2: had my tonsils out and I started bleeding to a

1827
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:50,080
Speaker 2: point where they threw me in the emergency room and

1828
01:47:50,120 --> 01:47:52,680
Speaker 2: cauterized my throat. So I have a huge scar on

1829
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:55,400
Speaker 2: my throat, which has always been kind of a hamstring

1830
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 2: for me. So when I'm singing, especially you know, when

1831
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:02,000
Speaker 2: I have to do no nine shows in eleven days

1832
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:07,519
Speaker 2: like I did last month, there's no alcohol. I don't

1833
01:48:07,520 --> 01:48:11,120
Speaker 2: eat ice cream. I basically don't talk after a show

1834
01:48:11,240 --> 01:48:14,920
Speaker 2: till soundcheck the next day. It's really all about vocal maintenance.

1835
01:48:15,120 --> 01:48:18,080
Speaker 2: So it's not very rock and roll, but it is

1836
01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:18,720
Speaker 2: what it is.

1837
01:48:19,880 --> 01:48:25,320
Speaker 1: Okay, you have this other business, you have your royalties

1838
01:48:26,040 --> 01:48:30,200
Speaker 1: traveling as hell. What's keeping you on the road.

1839
01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:36,720
Speaker 2: Those ninety minutes. Well, two things, those ninety minutes of

1840
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:43,840
Speaker 2: sharing songs and stories with audiences, and especially in the

1841
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:47,280
Speaker 2: last few weeks, you know, being able to play okay

1842
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:50,960
Speaker 2: for audiences and people are literally crying in their seats.

1843
01:48:51,760 --> 01:48:55,200
Speaker 2: That tells you you're doing the right thing. The other

1844
01:48:55,240 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 2: thing is the camaraderie with my bandmates. I love them all.

1845
01:49:01,680 --> 01:49:05,200
Speaker 2: They they make me happy, They bring me joy. The

1846
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:08,920
Speaker 2: fun we have running a business can you know, bring

1847
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:13,960
Speaker 2: a lot of problems and headaches and hr and and

1848
01:49:14,080 --> 01:49:18,200
Speaker 2: things that aren't a lot of fun. But being you know,

1849
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:22,240
Speaker 2: being with my bandmates and perform with them every night

1850
01:49:22,439 --> 01:49:26,080
Speaker 2: and singing for people. It was a gift, you know,

1851
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:28,840
Speaker 2: thirty years ago when I started, and it's it's a

1852
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:32,840
Speaker 2: gift every night. I had a show, the Closed Art

1853
01:49:32,880 --> 01:49:36,200
Speaker 2: Tour at the Coach House last Friday night, and it

1854
01:49:36,280 --> 01:49:38,840
Speaker 2: was a wild, crazy show, and I spent an hour

1855
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:43,559
Speaker 2: afterwards talking too folks who showed up, and and especially

1856
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:46,680
Speaker 2: after COVID, I think probably all of us who did

1857
01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:50,680
Speaker 2: this do this for a living, have a unique and

1858
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:54,640
Speaker 2: new gratitude for for touring and playing, especially when we

1859
01:49:54,680 --> 01:49:57,200
Speaker 2: didn't have it for a couple of years, so I'm

1860
01:49:57,200 --> 01:49:57,880
Speaker 2: a blessed guy.

1861
01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:02,160
Speaker 1: Needless just say, from the time Superman was a hit

1862
01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:08,320
Speaker 1: to today, the business has completely changed. No song reaches everybody,

1863
01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:12,160
Speaker 1: even though we read about Taylor Swift and aforementioned Drake

1864
01:50:12,280 --> 01:50:16,240
Speaker 1: and Kendril Lamar. But in the back of your mind,

1865
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:19,759
Speaker 1: is there a dream? Yeah, I could write that one

1866
01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:22,519
Speaker 1: song that everybody would hear again, and I still want

1867
01:50:22,520 --> 01:50:25,240
Speaker 1: to do that. Or if you made peace, this is

1868
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:26,000
Speaker 1: what I'm doing.

1869
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:30,880
Speaker 2: If I told you I'd made peace, I'd be lying.

1870
01:50:32,760 --> 01:50:35,240
Speaker 2: We all want to have that song. We all want

1871
01:50:35,280 --> 01:50:37,360
Speaker 2: to have that song that the world's singing with us.

1872
01:50:38,040 --> 01:50:42,120
Speaker 2: And I always believe my best song is yet to come.

1873
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:45,200
Speaker 2: We all have an ego inside of us, and that's

1874
01:50:45,200 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 2: why it's so hard when you've had a taste of

1875
01:50:47,439 --> 01:50:53,120
Speaker 2: success to face the reality when things aren't the same.

1876
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:56,920
Speaker 2: At the same time, I'm so incredibly grateful to have

1877
01:50:56,920 --> 01:50:59,200
Speaker 2: had this career. It was such a fluke. The stars

1878
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:01,439
Speaker 2: had to align from me. When I hear a song

1879
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:04,360
Speaker 2: of mine at home depot, I still can't believe it.

1880
01:51:04,720 --> 01:51:07,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I think we all, we all would

1881
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:09,880
Speaker 2: like to have that song. And you know what, in

1882
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:15,519
Speaker 2: some ways, Okay is a song like that, because you know,

1883
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:18,360
Speaker 2: the whole world's not singing it, but a lot of

1884
01:51:18,439 --> 01:51:21,360
Speaker 2: the world's hearing it, and it's making some people really

1885
01:51:21,400 --> 01:51:23,680
Speaker 2: happy and making some people really angry. And at the

1886
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:25,680
Speaker 2: end of the day, you know, isn't that what rock

1887
01:51:25,720 --> 01:51:26,960
Speaker 2: and roll is all about?

1888
01:51:27,680 --> 01:51:31,760
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you're making an impact in a world, in

1889
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:35,960
Speaker 1: an era where everybody's just about the benjamins, and it's

1890
01:51:36,120 --> 01:51:39,680
Speaker 1: very inspiring. So, in any event, John, I want to

1891
01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:43,280
Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking time with my audience.

1892
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:46,080
Speaker 1: The other thing is I want to take you up

1893
01:51:46,120 --> 01:51:48,599
Speaker 1: on your offer to go see how a shopping card

1894
01:51:48,760 --> 01:51:51,479
Speaker 1: is built. I literally thin that would be a very

1895
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:57,040
Speaker 1: interesting trip. But in any event, thanks again for doing this.

1896
01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:00,439
Speaker 2: Well, we'll take you to lunch at Mayo's, our favorite

1897
01:52:00,479 --> 01:52:04,240
Speaker 2: Mexican restaurant. We'll settle we're certainly set it up this summer.

1898
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:06,439
Speaker 2: I look forward to to showing you how to make

1899
01:52:06,479 --> 01:52:10,160
Speaker 2: a shopping cart. And again, thank you for you know,

1900
01:52:10,760 --> 01:52:14,800
Speaker 2: everything you've done for our business and moral clarity as well.

1901
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:17,720
Speaker 2: You're an icon and you're a hero and your own

1902
01:52:17,800 --> 01:52:19,120
Speaker 2: right and it's an honor to be with you.

1903
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:24,880
Speaker 1: Wow, can't say anything to that, So till next time.

1904
01:52:25,360 --> 01:52:26,839
Speaker 1: This is Bob left sets