1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Which is anonymous with the Laria Baldwin and Michelle Campbell 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: Mason and I Heart Radio podcast Welcome Back, which is 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: we are so excited this week. This week we have 4 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: a fantastic guest. She has been on The Young and 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: the Restless for sixteen years playing a character that causes 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: nothing but chaos and is a two time Emmy winner, 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: and she's here to talk about something extremely important and raw. 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: Michelle Stafford, thank you so much for joining our coven today. 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm so I'm so so 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: so excited that you're here for so many millions of 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: reasons that we're gonna get into. But I'm curious, especially 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: because I've you know, I've done surgasy with one of 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: my children, and we'll get into that leader. But we've 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: been talking um on our podcast and everywhere about Jennifer 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,279 Speaker 1: Anniston this week, right, and how everybody is, you know, 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: coming to to the realization that we poked at this 17 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: poor woman for so long on in decade, case decades, 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: about what she looks. Is she pregnant, is she not pregnant? 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Why isn't she pregnant? Is she struggling getting pregnate? Does 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: she not want to have children and women we are, 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: so you know, we're considered to be breeders in many ways. 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: And this is me who has seven kids. But I 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: understand that the historical connection of woman is breeder. And 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: if you cannot breed in the traditional way, or you 25 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: do not want to breed in the traditional way, people 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: think that they have the right to talk about it. 27 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: And then for you to understand that you did surregacy 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: so not so long ago. Your children are young, but 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: things have changed even the past couple of years in 30 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: terms of how we talk about it. So and and 31 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: the technology has changed, the medicine has changed. So I 32 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: as much as you're comfortable opening up to us about it, 33 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm so curious to hear about your experience and hear 34 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: about how you felt that that was accepted or not accepted. 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting because, um, the breeder thing does 36 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: hit a nerve with me. I it's sort of innate 37 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 1: in in I wish it weren't, but it seems to 38 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: be very very much a true statement. I was out 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: of a failed relationship and and I had this realization 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: that my God, I was waiting for him, like we 41 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: wait for them to ask us to marry them. You know, 42 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: we wait for them, we we wait for them to 43 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: be okay. He was a hockey player, right, and he 44 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: had the kind of a schedule where where it was, 45 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: you know, as being athletes a very very grueling kind 46 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: of life, especially for the wives or the girlfriends. And 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: uh so, so anyway, I got out of that relationship 48 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: and it was, you know, like I guess three years, 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: two and a half years, and I thought, you know, 50 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: I'm thirty eight, thirty nine. I have waited again for 51 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: someone to choose me. And so I wanted to have children. 52 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, I'll do it on my own. I 53 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: started with adoption. It went. It was abysmal for me. 54 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: It was completely abysmal experience for me. It's not for others, 55 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: but it was for me. And you know, then I 56 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: just thought, how hard could this be? I mean, I'll 57 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: just get sperm spinded on the street a little turkey beaster, 58 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: were good, Yeah, hard, it's not it's herm. I'll do 59 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: it on my own, right, and um, and then that 60 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: it was. It was horrendous. I had a lot of 61 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: physical issues. Long story short, I did IVF, you know, 62 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: and um, it just brought me to the point where 63 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: I had to visaragate I really and especially at that time, 64 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: oh my gosh. I mean, just the shame that I 65 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: could cry right now. I was just like, I must 66 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: be the biggest loser on the planet. Now, I know 67 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: this is all bullshit, right, And as a woman, you 68 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: you tell your friend no, don't think that about you, 69 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: but I did. It just is what it was. And um, 70 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: I mean the whole time, I just felt like a loser. 71 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, I gotta essentially, it's not what you're doing. 72 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: But I felt like, even with adoption, I gotta buy 73 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: this girl's baby, Like I can't. I'm such a loser. 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: I can't make this happen because all you're told and 75 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: you must understand this. I think that somebody who hasn't 76 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: gone through it might be judging me, and it's okay, 77 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: judge me. I don't care. But um, but it's you're 78 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: just constantly told you're old and there's a magic pregnancy. Yeah. 79 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: I just felt like this old, dried up, barren vagina. 80 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: I mean, let's just can I just talk about sitting 81 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: in that doctor said, since you boasted IVF, I assume 82 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: you did. Having a saragat obviously I don't know. Oh yeah, 83 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: but I remember sitting in and I would come from 84 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: work and I'd be all dolled up and I'd sit 85 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: in the office and and it was couples and I 86 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: could just see like the women were jack because I 87 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: was so jacked doing this. They're jacked. Is you know 88 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: you're amping up those hormones, you're making all those eggs. 89 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you are like bursting estrogen. And the man, 90 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: I just remember all the men were like this, and 91 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: nurse one time opened up the thing and said, Mr Smith, 92 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: we're going to need a sample. I know, I know, 93 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: Oh my god, He's OK. And it's the most and 94 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: the most embarrassing thing. And they get the sample on 95 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: the same day that you go in. I guess at 96 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: least that's the way we did it. You go in 97 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: for the averageable. And so I'm like literally in surgery 98 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: and Alec is having to go to something really awkward room. 99 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: It was like they call that like a fresh collection, 100 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: just so it's profession your amazing podcast just into the gutter. No, no, 101 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: this is this is the best because nobody talks about this. 102 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: And I remember the pain. I mean those it was like, 103 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: what for for me, it was like ten days of 104 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: injections um, which I don't know how. I don't know 105 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: what it was like as again because every single year 106 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: hopefully they're getting better at it, but these injections, it 107 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: usually averages around two weeks and then they do like 108 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: the one that you have to then go in the 109 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: next day or something like that, the trigger shot, I 110 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: think they call it. And I just remember, I mean 111 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: for me who's had in had my my body had 112 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: so many kids as well, this weird sensation of your 113 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: ovaries like as you call jacked, like just huge, is 114 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: such an odd feeling that with all the odd feelings 115 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: that have come with all my my pregnancies and the 116 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,160 Speaker 1: ones that I've lost in everything, it's awful feeling. It's 117 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: an awful offul So one of the things that people 118 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: will say that when you do IBF is other than 119 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, how shameful she can't have babies on 120 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: her own, right, they shame us for doing it. But 121 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,119 Speaker 1: then also you know the sort of Gussie route that 122 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: they you know, basically say oh that's that's the easy 123 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: way to have babies, and anyone who's done IVF agritvite 124 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: any of it. It is not easy. It is painful. Yeah, 125 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: that's an understatement the whole thing. I mean, I just 126 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: I've never had someone say that to me. By the way, 127 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: Oh that you did. You were had a a surrogate, 128 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: that was easy. Um, I get other weird stuff, you know. Um. 129 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: And I even forget what it is because I usually 130 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: think that those people are idiots who judge. Um. But 131 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: but surrogacy, what you were saying, it is um it 132 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: wise early. I mean, oh god, I just remember when 133 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: my daughter was born in two thousand and nine, they 134 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: didn't have a room for me. I'm not the insured, 135 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: even though I was paying out a pocket for the insurance, right, 136 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: and so my beautiful surrogate, Noel, who would I'm still 137 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: I still know both my surrogates, um and she wouldn't 138 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: mind me saying her name, but she um got the room. 139 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: And then they put me in the hallway, so I 140 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: was essentially with my kid in the hallway. Ah. And 141 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: then at the time, because the way it is, at 142 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: least in California is at six months to station. Um, 143 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: you go in front of a judge. Now they do 144 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: it all with paperwork, but you go in front of 145 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: a judge and he says, Okay, you were not the 146 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: mother of this baby. Um to the surrogate, you are 147 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: the mother of this baby, but prior to that, she 148 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: is considered in the eyes of a lot of the 149 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: mother of the baby. And and I remember that my judge, 150 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: and this is probably the depth of pathos that I felt. 151 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: The judge did not because it's his opinion. The judge's 152 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: opinion because there's no law. So he had everyone who 153 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: was a single parent, for a same sex parent or 154 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: transgender parent. He had everyone who was in that basically 155 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: adopt their own kid, their own biological kid. And I remember, 156 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: I mean, having already gone through everything that I went through, 157 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,680 Speaker 1: which is more than any other mother. I I know, 158 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: like I clearly wanted this. This is why I cried. 159 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. But um so I sat there and 160 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: and I had to basically pitch myself and I had 161 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: to get a lawyer to pitch myself to the judge. 162 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: It was I mean, listen, way worse things can happen 163 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: in the world in your life, and we've seen them, 164 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: and I've seen I've experienced other things. After this, I 165 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: remember that moment of being pitched to the lawyer to 166 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: the judge their eyeways, Um a legitimate and he looked 167 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: at me. Yeah, I looked at me, and he goes, now, 168 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: why do you think you would be a good mother? 169 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: All I wanted to do about yourself all I wanted 170 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: to say, he's not a judge here anymore. He retired. Well, 171 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: but it's it's humiliating. And that's the thing, is that 172 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: again having been able to do both both sides of it, Um. 173 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: In terms of these two sides, I mean, there's many 174 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: different ways to become a parent, UM, but I don't 175 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: have a difference between my daughter that was born via 176 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: surrogacy and my six other children that I carried. There's 177 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: no difference. And people what people assume that I'm less 178 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: of a mom, that she's less of my daughter. And 179 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, just like what you just 180 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, shared with us. If somebody questioning your authenticity 181 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: as your child's mom, and you know, I mean, we 182 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: were we were looking through some some articles that were 183 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: written about my daughter and me, UM when she was 184 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: born in February, and they were really mean. They're really, 185 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: really really mean, and you just look and you think 186 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: they're written by women. By the way other women are 187 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: writing them, and they're basically putting me as this outcasted person, 188 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: sort of saying like, oh my god, she did that. 189 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: And not only did she do that, but she has 190 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 1: kids on her own, and they don't know my story 191 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: because I have yet to share with people. And one 192 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons I didn't share it with people was 193 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: because they were not very nice about it, you know. 194 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: And so it's but the feeling it made me so sad, 195 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: the feeling of judgment and and on such innocence. I mean, 196 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: the bond between parent and child is so beautiful, and 197 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: she is just as attached to me as all the 198 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: other ones. She is just and I think, you know 199 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: what if I see if she sees years old, if 200 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: she sees one of these reporters that took the time 201 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: to write about her validity not just as part of 202 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: the family, but also her validity in terms of existing, 203 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: they're questioning whether I should have done that, which therefore 204 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: is questioning whether she should that she should exist. I 205 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: look at that, and I think, what if she runs 206 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: into you and you think, you know what, I wrote 207 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: something that you shouldn't be here. I mean, listen, I 208 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: just gotta sit with kind of speechless. Yea, it is horrendous. 209 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: She's used as a case study for really being you know, 210 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: the unattainable super mom in this instance, and it's such 211 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: an unfair projection because there's so many elements that go 212 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: into what the public perceives, and there's so many fake 213 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: things that go on to social media. Right, we put 214 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: up our most beautiful moments of our life. But Hilaria 215 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: shows her whole life all the time. But this myopic 216 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: view that this particular reporter took really just zoomed in 217 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: on this one thing, saying the rest of it is irrelevant, 218 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: and this part of her life is too shiny, and 219 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: it makes others feel bad and they can't stop watching it. 220 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: But that's her fault, which which I wonder about. I 221 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: wonder about because this was February, um and in you know, 222 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: two thousand to public miscarriages that I was very open 223 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: about and I cried about that. Then people, you know, 224 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: most people were so wonderful and supportive and shared their 225 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: own experiences because infertility is very, very common unfortunately. UM. 226 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 1: So I'd love to take a little time to talk 227 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: about surrogacy. I love that you are, you know, open 228 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: with um the name of your surrogate. I keep mind 229 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: private for for her well, because it right, no no 230 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: exactly and that's no no, and I get that. And 231 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: I'm not just for you guys listening. I'm not going 232 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,599 Speaker 1: to say the name of my surrogate because that is 233 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: not what she wants. UM. But I also have this 234 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: amazing relationship. We talked like with text at least almost 235 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: every single day, and we're so close, and we go 236 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: through such an amazing um. We we went through such 237 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: amazing transformations together, um. And so I'd love to talk 238 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: a little bit about what the surrogacy experience was for you. 239 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: I actually texted her last night and asked her some 240 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: things that she would like to share. UM, just because 241 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: hearing from a surrogate actually made me want to go 242 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: through with the process, whereas what I thought surrogacy was 243 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: going to be made me not want to do it. 244 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: I worked very very hard to not have a surrogate, 245 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: and I was told my very by my very first 246 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: IVF doctor UM that it would I would probably have 247 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: to do it, and I worked really really hard. I 248 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: mean that to me was the ultimate loserdom um. At 249 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: the time. Of course, I don't have those thoughts now. 250 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: But at the time, I thought, I'm gonna have to 251 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: buy somebody's uterus, would you know, Like I'm I said 252 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: this in the most crude way, because that's how I 253 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: felt at the time, unfiltered, raw emotions. Nobody's gonna be yeah, yeah, 254 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: commutely and um, you know, I called an agency, and 255 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: thank goodness for this woman at this agency that I used, 256 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: because she had so I mean, but by the time 257 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: you go to get a surrogate, you're pretty much toast, 258 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: like you've tried everything, right, um, and you go okay, so, um, 259 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: you know, I had my embryos frozen and because you know, 260 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: my doctor kep on telling me I was old and 261 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: I better get those eggs out of there. Because she 262 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: started to go into labor very early, right, and so 263 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: she was in and out of the hospital and she lived, 264 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: you know, about an you know, an hour flight from me, 265 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: and man, I mean, we had people who worked with 266 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: the hospital who didn't even get it and they would 267 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: come in and the amount of women who would go 268 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: is it weird carrying a white woman's baby. Now, I 269 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: had that added factor of her being you know, a 270 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: different color than me, and the amount of people saying 271 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: that to her, or we would be somewhere at the 272 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: mall together and they'd go, oh, your baby, and she goes, oh, 273 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: well it's hers. I'm carrying it for her, and they'd 274 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: be like, oh, oh oh, not instant, And I just figured, 275 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of I compared it to uncomfortable 276 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: Thanksgivings with family, you know, like you know when you 277 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: have the creepy uncle Charlie in the corner and you're 278 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: trying to avoid them at Thanksgiving. I mean, that was 279 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: just the whole experience, but nobody when I finally talked 280 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: about it, and you know, I'm on a soap. I 281 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: I don't have the same notoriety as you do. I 282 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: I you know, people felt bad for me. I think 283 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: they because it was really um horrendous and my whole journey, 284 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: uh was and so many people didn't know about it, 285 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: and so if they if they felt weird, it was 286 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: behind my back and it wasn't to my face. But 287 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: I I always didn't. You know. There's also this I 288 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: don't know if you experience this, but but uh um, 289 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: my surrogate gained only five pounds during gestation with Natalia, 290 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: so of course I was freaking out I was she 291 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: essentially lost body weight right now. And it's that I 292 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: only bring that up because it's the lack of control 293 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: you have over something that is your Like that really 294 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: really screwed in my mind, Like and I had to 295 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: talk myself off the ledge. I didn't have a husband, 296 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: I was doing this with. UM. I had family members 297 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: and really good friends. UM, but it was it was 298 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: really hard, and no one understood it because I didn't 299 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: know anyone as a single woman who was doing this. UM. 300 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: Now more people are doing it, UM, but it was 301 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: really really hard, you know. It was like, um, something 302 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,239 Speaker 1: that only you know about that no one, no one 303 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: can experience you. Well, it's funny, I mean having I 304 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: definitely feel the giving up control, although I have to 305 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: say that also when you carry a baby, you're giving 306 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: up control to which which it's It's when I was 307 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: pregnant with Carmen and I was getting like the these 308 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: crazy implantation cramps, and I literally thought that I was 309 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: going to start bleeding every single time I got them, 310 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: and so I'd run to the bathroom and I was 311 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: like not bleeding. I'm like, how is it possible that 312 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: you feel these period like cramps and it's and there's 313 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: no blood. What is going on? So I called my 314 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: mother and I was like, I hate this, so this 315 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: is unfair, Like I want to write a strongly worded 316 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: letter to whoever created this in nature. And She's like, Larry, 317 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: I get ready for an entire lifetime of not being 318 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: able to control your children. And I was like, oh 319 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: my god, got one like six weeks and what have 320 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: I signed up? Four? I don't know if I'm built 321 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: for this. But you know, when I had I had 322 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: had some chemical pregnancies UM scattered until you know, baby 323 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: number four, and then I got pregnant. UM. I got 324 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: pregnant naturally in the spring of twenty nineteen, so before 325 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 1: my my fourth kid was one, because I've had them 326 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: all back to back and the heartbeat was wrong. Was 327 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,679 Speaker 1: not good the from the moment that we heard it 328 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: and I had you know, I'm I'm a a capital corners. 329 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: I've said before, I'm I'm pretty stoic in some ways. 330 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, you know, I haven't had 331 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: a miscarriage after heartbeat, so I you know, I've had 332 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: four kids. They say one in five children ends in miscarriage, 333 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: So this is it. This is it um I was. 334 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: I was also told that I was old because then 335 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: I was thirty five, you know, because I just turned 336 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: in January, and this was in the spring, so I 337 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: thirty five and change. And I basically we we waited 338 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: until the heartbeat stopped, which was probably about like nine 339 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: plus weeks. So I went from week six to week nine, 340 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: going you know, every few days or so and watching 341 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: the heartbeak get slower and slower and slower. I was 342 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: very open about it actually when on the Today Show 343 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: and I talked about it, because one of the things 344 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: that frustrates me from not not just being in the 345 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: public eye, but just being in the communities that we 346 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: don't often talk about things as they're going on, and 347 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: that's sometimes when we need to support the most, we 348 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: just kind of close it off. And so I, you know, 349 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: I was very open about that I had a d 350 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: n C to to remove the pregnancy, and then I 351 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: decided for many different reasons, that I was going to 352 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,959 Speaker 1: try i V for the first time. And I when 353 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: we talked about how that's quite a thing that egg 354 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: retrieval sensations that I'd never felt before, um, just in 355 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: terms of the heaviness in my in my ovaries and 356 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: and we we were successful with it. And then I 357 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: started that entire summer of nineteen, I was taking hormones 358 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: and doing the whole preparation that you know, we all 359 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: know here that is to to um transfer the embryo. 360 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: And then at the late summer, I transferred the embryo 361 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: and I'm doing my own shots. I learned to do 362 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,239 Speaker 1: it in my back because like, can you guys just 363 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: like like it's empowering moment of levity of imagining Alec 364 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: Baldwin trying to shove a needle in my butt. I 365 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: think that would have been I've definitely and we've got 366 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: a lot together. That would have been the end of 367 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: our relationship, wrest wore. But it was intense then I, um, 368 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: you know with the heartbeat, or we know, right before 369 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: the heartbeat, I started having this crazy, crazy cramping and 370 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: a lot of bleeding. And this was like right before 371 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,239 Speaker 1: you could find that see the heartbeat, and we were 372 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: sure that was miscarring. We're sure, And and I was thinking, 373 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: I was like, I've come so far, you know, all 374 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: of the shots, all of the pills, all the suppositories, 375 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: the patches, you know, my bruised but my bruised belly. Um. 376 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,719 Speaker 1: And then then this happened. I had this miraculous thing 377 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: where I bled for two days. It was very physically painful. 378 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: And they told me blood with pain isn't good. Um, 379 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: so it's not good news. And then I went and 380 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: there was a heartbeat and I was like, oh my god, 381 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: there's a heartbeat. It was so excited, and they said, 382 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: you know what, it's just there's a like a cot 383 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: and that was what it was. So it's gonna be okay. Then, um, 384 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: I you know, I announced. I decided also to be like, 385 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: you know what, fun this whole thing that you have 386 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: to wait till your three months. When I'm feeling sick 387 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: and I'm feeling this and I'm feeling that, I'm just 388 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: gonna tell everybody because that's my my my thing now 389 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: is just tell everybody everything so everybody can leave me 390 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: alone to be open and show, you know, the reality 391 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: of it. Which, now, where do we see that? This 392 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: New York Times reporter missed, you know, missed the point right, um? 393 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,160 Speaker 1: And she um. I told my and my daughter and 394 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: it was a girl. And so I said to my daughter, 395 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: I said, you're gonna get your sister we have all 396 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: our boys, and we love our boys, and I'm such 397 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: a boy mom. But she really wanted another sister. She's 398 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: an older sister. And and then I went for my 399 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: sixteen week appointment and um, this is where I'm gonna 400 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: start to cry. I'm laying there and I had this 401 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: weird feeling because I couldn't feel the baby. And I 402 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: can usually feel the baby very early on. I couldn't 403 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 1: with my first bootm other was I can feel super 404 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: early on where people tell me that I'm making it up, 405 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: and I promise you I'm not. And and I she 406 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: puts the wand on my belly and the baby's not moving. 407 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: She was dead at six did you say? Sixteen weeks? 408 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: And um, I started to scream. I called Alec was 409 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: on a bus, who was on a public bus at 410 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: the time. Um, and I just I just didn't know 411 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: what to do. They you know, they they said it 412 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: was late in the day. I wiped the cream off 413 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: my belly. I go and I had to talk to 414 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: the doctor because this was the the tech of them 415 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: very close with you know, she's she's scandal all my babies. 416 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: And I went talk to the doctor and he told 417 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: me again while you're old. But just know that you 418 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong. They always wanted to don't you 419 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: didn't do anything wrong, but but you are old, and wow, 420 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: what bad lucky had two miscarriages in a row and 421 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: this one with with IVF you know, you would think. 422 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: And then I walked like many many, many, many many 423 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: blocks and I just was crying and walking many blocks. 424 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: I get home and I needed to tell people right 425 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: away that was my feeling because I couldn't handle people 426 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: congratulating me, and people write me all the time congratulating me. 427 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: As I told Carmen, I told my daughter, who was 428 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: so I mean, I hope that it wasn't throwing too 429 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: much on her plate, but she had just know the truth, 430 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: and she was asking me, how is my sister? Wasn't me? 431 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: They were pictures of my sister, And I took the 432 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: video that I put on my social media of me crying, 433 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: and yes, it was, you know, very emotional, but it 434 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: is what it is. And I just wanted people to 435 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: know that I couldn't. I didn't want them to say 436 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: I'm so happy for you, because I was not happy. 437 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,479 Speaker 1: And I just quite cried for I could not believe 438 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: how many tears can come out of you and and 439 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: then you fall asleep and then you wake up and 440 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: you remember that it's true. And I had a belly um, 441 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: and then so I had to get something called a 442 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: d and E, which basically your boy feels like you 443 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: had a baby afterwards. So my milk came in at 444 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: my post partum hair loss and um, anyway I did. 445 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: I did that. Now fast forward to a month and 446 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: a half later, I get pregnant naturally, and um, why 447 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: am I still crying? Because you know, but it was 448 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: very much. It was very confusing. And then I had this. 449 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: I had this embryo, this this other embryo, and I said, 450 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: I feel I can't have any more kids. Ha ha ha. 451 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: Now it's another one when obviously I have no idea, 452 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: I have no crystal ball, but I can't have another 453 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: and I my body can't handle anymore. I'm gonna have 454 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: this baby. What am I going to do with this embryo? 455 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: And I feel like if I put her inside of me, 456 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: it's going to be a death sentence. I was sure 457 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: that the same thing would happen that you know, you 458 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: lose control what we were talking about before that I 459 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: was gonna put it. And I was going to try 460 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 1: to house her just like a house the babies that 461 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: I can see naturally and um, and I was going 462 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: to kill her basically and um because women, we put 463 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: so much weight on our on our ability to bring life, 464 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: and then we take all of the responsibility on us. 465 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: And so I um. Based. I met with a friend 466 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: who had done surrogacy and um, and they had tried 467 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: very hard to have have kids. And they she connected 468 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: me with the woman who who carried her children, who 469 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: then connected me to this whole amazing world. And I 470 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: was very I'm not sure about it. I was very 471 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: not sure. Um. But and I eventually um, I met 472 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: an amazing woman who is our surrogate and um, and 473 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: they said to me, Um, this is what surrogacy is like. 474 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: You have your grandmother's recipe of your cake, You make 475 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: your cake, your oven is either occupied or it's not working. 476 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: As you go to your neighbor's house, and neighbor cloks 477 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: the cake for you, and then the neighbor gives the 478 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: cake back to you because it's your cake, it's not 479 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: your neighbor's cake. And that I mean, it's such a 480 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: silly thing, but it made so It was made a 481 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: really good point because I was asking, how are you 482 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: going to feel about, you know, carrying a baby and 483 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 1: then giving baby. I I don't think I could do that. 484 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: I don't think I could do that. But you realize 485 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: that the women that do this are angels. They're like 486 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: they are like the nurses in the hospital that just 487 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,919 Speaker 1: come and hold onto you and hold onto your baby. 488 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: And you know, my, my, um my, my surrogate says, 489 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: and this is what she does, this is this is 490 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: she loves it. She's passionate about it. She says, I 491 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: get to make families for a living. I get to 492 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: make love, and in a different way of making love, 493 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: I like you to make this entire loving relationship for you. 494 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: And I thought that it's just she she is so 495 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: inspiring to me. And you know, I mean, had the 496 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: people who judged me so much if they knew all 497 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: of the reasons why. And that's the whole thing is 498 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: that you shouldn't have to just don't don't judge about 499 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: things that you don't know about. And how my Marielu, 500 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: who is the one born the surrogacy, her her story 501 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: starts with you know the loss that I had, you know, 502 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: and and that her coming here. There is a connection 503 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: between those two souls. But you know, I think this 504 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: show is all about right like sisterhood, right like how 505 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: it takes the village and women being there for each other. Obviously, 506 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 1: Sir I guests as a modern you know, gift to us, 507 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: and this was not an option to generations passed. But 508 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: at the same time, this is another ability for women 509 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: to show up and hold space and really help one another. 510 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: Granted it is a paid job, unless you know, there 511 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: are people that just volunteered to do it for others, 512 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: but it is a beautiful, beautiful thing, and just honoring 513 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: that and honoring them and seeing them as like the 514 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: beautiful givers they are for providing such an amazing service 515 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: that so many of us don't understand. You know, we 516 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: look at the numbers here, like at least like like 517 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: the most conclusive stats on infertility in the US, like 518 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: more than thirty five percent of Americans have a very 519 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: hard time conceiving. It takes years. It takes almost eight 520 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: cycles of IVF on average for a woman to get pregnant. 521 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: So there's so much that goes into it. It's such 522 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: a factory, it's such a business it's very dehumanizing, very demoralizing, 523 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: because you are just a part of this machine too 524 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: to make a baby, and you don't get the opportunity 525 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: to cry like like you do, to have that moment, 526 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: because they're just pushing you through the machine to the end, right, 527 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: and the process is daunting. I've done it three times 528 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: and I have no children. You know, It's just it 529 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: is painful, and every part of your body and your 530 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: mind changes during the process, and there really isn't an outlet. 531 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: So I think to something we should talk about when 532 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: we are concluding this conversation is, you know, real support 533 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: for women that are going through this, and how we 534 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: can kind of put on our website, like how you 535 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: can out find some outreach networks in which you can 536 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: have these conversations so you don't feel alone because a 537 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: huge amount of the population goes through this. And I 538 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: think a lot of women ascribe their validity as a 539 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: woman to the motherhood paradigm, being able to be a mother, 540 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: and that is so harrowing because that's not that's not 541 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: defining of who you are, your character, what you can 542 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: offer to the world. It's a beautiful thing. It's a 543 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,959 Speaker 1: beautiful bonus but we're also vulnerable to it. I know, 544 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: since I still really want children and don't have them. 545 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: I walk around I live, you know, in a very 546 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: baby centric neighborhood in New York, and there have been 547 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: days or I just walked by all these little play 548 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: groups and start crying. You just it's so deeply ingrained 549 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: in us, and we don't get to talk about how 550 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: much it hurts because you're never on the right side 551 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: of it, it seems. And I'm fortunate to be a 552 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: step parent as well, but there is the biological tied 553 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: to parenting where that doesn't count, right, and so there's 554 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: a judgment maybe in that to some people. That are 555 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: people's perception, you know, well, I I just want everybody 556 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: at home toil what you mean to totally and a 557 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: lack of control that you have, and like there's all 558 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: they're all the gray areas that you cannot cross there, 559 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: so there's red tape everywhere, and um, it's such a 560 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: beautiful experience as well, and such an honor to be 561 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: able to be there for children and also provide them 562 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: at that outlet that is also a friend and not 563 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: just a parent, because there is a different level of 564 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: authority that comes with that in some dynamics. But yeah, 565 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: it's you know, you always have to clarify because then 566 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: someone thinks you're being you know, dishonest, like, oh, I 567 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: have kids, I have step kids, Like, oh right, you 568 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: know it's different and that's hard to Oh yeah, that's 569 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: who does It's so rede Yeah, the judgment. But we're 570 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna um, We're gonna wrap soon. But I 571 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: think the one of the takeaways from here is people 572 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: are going through something that you don't know anything about. 573 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 1: There's there's that quote that I completely just butchered right now, 574 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: but we all know which one it is. And you know, 575 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: being a parent or not being a parent, or trying 576 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: to be a parent and having it not work out. 577 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: It's not a competition. It's not a competition. This isn't 578 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: this person against this person against that person. It is 579 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: purely the love that I have. Am I giving it 580 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: to another being? Am I learning to give it to myself? 581 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: Am I giving it to a partner? Am I giving 582 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 1: it out to the world and taking care of everybody? 583 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: Or being a positive force rather than a negative force 584 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: out there? And I mean, I'm I'm really grateful that 585 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: you came on and talked about this because it gave 586 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: me an opportunity to to speak about my experience for 587 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: the first time. The other things, we put such weight 588 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: into physical suffering for women and and motherhood, and we think, oh, 589 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: if you didn't physically suffer to have this child in 590 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: the way that I think physical suffering is. Therefore, we 591 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: we questioned it and we did. Yes, yes, absolutely so 592 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 1: we do. We do something on which is anonymous called uh, 593 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: what are we coming in your coven? And um, which 594 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: means basically, just like a favorite thing that we share, 595 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: so like a product or a book or an experience 596 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 1: or yeah, something we love that we're not really connected 597 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: to that inspiring us. Oh yeah, no, I do have something. 598 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, I'll do it because it's not connected. 599 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: There are things that I'm connected to. But this is 600 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: really weird to see on my show. If I don't 601 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: have a little color, I can look you know these Yeah, 602 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: oh yeah, right time. Yeah, I can come off on 603 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: my show because there's a lot of blue in our 604 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: lighting to look at these. These are like tantels. And 605 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: I do this on my face and it doesn't make 606 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: me break out. I do it on my face and 607 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: I just do it on my arms and they're little 608 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: tantels and they're so easy. Oh, I love that. That's 609 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: a good one. It's so good. And mine is so 610 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: basic and weird. But um Larya and I have a 611 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 1: very close friend who also does our hair, and it's 612 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: been a really long time since I've seen him, and 613 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: I've just been for I to like keep it together 614 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: and make my hair look decent lyly and like messy 615 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: and witchy and not so like styled anyway, going through 616 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: a renaissance over here. So it's these little silky hair 617 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: ties where I can like tie them up and it 618 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: gets all like scrunchy and mermaidy and doesn't ever leave 619 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: like a dent. It's that silk brand by who I 620 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: guess I tore, you know. The brand is called Silk 621 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 1: and they're like these little silk scrunchy things. The tide 622 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: fell off. It usually just says silk on it. But 623 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,359 Speaker 1: so good. Do you have to do it like a 624 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: like a bun rather than just a ponytail in order 625 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: to not so, I don't want to work out, And 626 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: I like spray, like wave wave spray, and then they 627 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: like twist it and then like put it over the 628 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: back and then it comes out pretty decent. I don't know. 629 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: I love that you guys went I'll do I'll do 630 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 1: mine now too. So mine is ilia is this really 631 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: like wide lipstick, but you can actually also use it 632 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: for your cheeks. I'm super um crazy about the preservatives 633 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: that I put on my skin because they do make 634 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: me break out. Um. This color is called at last 635 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: and and and I like it because you can put 636 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: it on your lips, you can put it on your 637 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: cheeks and blend it in. I'm not, you know, a 638 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: huge I'm not a huge makeup where so it's just 639 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: getting a little something unless somebody else is doing my makeup, 640 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: and then then I'm happy to put it on. Hi, Michelle, 641 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. This was 642 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 1: for me a completely life changing conversation to be able 643 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: to open up in this way. I love that you did. 644 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: I feel really honored that you trusted me enough to 645 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: do that, And thank you for having me, both of you. 646 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: Thank you for your candor and making this conversation, which 647 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: can be so difficult, really open and safe. And also 648 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: we can find some light in it because there is 649 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: some comedy and how hard we have to fight some 650 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: of the battles to you know, to get where we 651 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: want to get with being a mother. Thank you both. 652 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: Thank you