WEBVTT - Andrew Berman and Rob Snyder on Preserving What Matters 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.160 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to. Here's the thing, 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.719 My chance to talk with artists, policy makers, and performers, 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:15.200 to hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:21.040 change their careers, what relationships influenced their work? This week, 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:26.040 conservation a subject I'm deeply committed to. My guests today 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:30.520 are passionate about protecting two very different locations. Rob Snyder 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:34.360 helps island and remote coastal communities in Maine adapt to 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.520 changing environmental and economic factors. But first I sit down 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.880 with Andrew Berman, the executive director of the Greenwich Village 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.120 Society for Historic Preservation. Berman goes after the big dogs 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.519 in New York City real estate, like n y U 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.720 and Donald Trump, and he and his team can count 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:56.760 many victories. Under his direction, the society secured landmark protection 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.800 for over one thousand buildings. I want to know about 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:05.160 his biggest heartbreak, the building that got away. I expected 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.520 him to be moaned the upcoming expansion of the Chelsea Market, 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.920 pushed through by Christine Quim, former Speaker of the New 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.160 York City Council and Merrill candidate, But I got a 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.160 very different response. You know this is gonna sound sort 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.319 of strange, but one of my personal favorites that we 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.800 lost was this beautiful building called the Tunnel Garage, which, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.520 believe it or not, was a parking garage. Would you 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.440 would never think who would care about a parking garage? 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.200 It was one of the first purpose built parking garages 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.760 in New York. It was this beautiful Art Deco building 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.280 that had a medallion on it that was an image 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.040 of a model t forward emerging from the Holland Tunnel, 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:45.880 which hadn't even yet been built. When this tunnel, which 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:47.880 was built near the entrance to the Holland Tunnel. Where 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.400 was this. This was on the corner of Broom Street 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:52.600 and Thompson Street, so sort of at the edge of 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.200 soho the South Village. Beautiful building, I mean it really, 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.200 if there's a parking garage anywhere on Earth that people 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.000 would rhpsodize about, it was this one. And it had 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.880 been on sort of lists for years of a building 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.760 to be saved. A developer came along and bought it 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:09.840 and said, you know, I just want to tear it 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:13.639 down and build a slightly larger condominium building. Here. How 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.760 many stories, eight stories? How many units? I think about 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.680 thirty or so, you know, pretty a bland, you know, 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:22.880 sort of you never look at the building, you never 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.079 look at it twice. What's another example, Well, here's one 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.959 where sort of the opposite. There was a vacant lot 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.000 at the northern end of the Greenwich Village Historic District 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.800 and there was a plan to develop it, which we 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.040 had no objections to. You know, vacant lots are there 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:39.840 to be developed. Um. But the developer put forward a 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:45.760 proposal for this thirteen story curving, entirely glass walled building 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.320 in the Greenwich Village Historic District and we thought that's ludicrous, 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:51.920 that would never never be approved. What does that have 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:54.760 to do with the Greenwich Village Historic District. The notion 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.359 is new development in these areas should kind of fit 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.400 the character. They don't have to mimic it. It doesn't 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:04.320 have to be a town some compatibility. The Commission unanimously 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.200 approved it, which we were really taken aback by. Um. 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.120 What's one that was a tremendous victory for you whereas 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.239 where something where you guys really fought and scored. I'd 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:16.120 say one of the ones that we're most proudest of 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.320 is the part of Greenwich Village South of Washington Square 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.560 what we often called the South Village, the part of 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:25.480 Greenwich Village that everybody associates with, you know, the folk Revival, 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.400 the Beatnicks in the nineties and nineteen sixties. Bleaker McDougal. 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:34.160 That area amazingly was not protected by landmark protections. Any 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:36.360 of those buildings could have been demolished and replaced with 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:41.320 pretty hiddeo New York. Yes, very much so. UM And 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.560 after really fifty years of people trying to get that 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.640 area landmarks, we were able to get it landmarked in 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.640 two stage. Uh. It took uh thousands of people really 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.320 coming together and pushing the city. In One part of 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.240 it is we actually had almost sort of blackmailed the city. 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:02.320 They wanted to get an area adjacent to that reasoned 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.920 as basically a sort of a stop to a developer, 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.400 Trinity real Estate in this case, UM, and we pushed 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.080 the city council to say, we won't approve the reasoning 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.880 that you the city want, unless you move ahead with 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.520 this landmarking that the community has been asking for for years. 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.360 So we really kind of backed them into a corner. UM. 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.040 And we, to be honest, we sort of used um 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:27.960 election year of politics as a bit of a cudgel. Um. 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:29.760 You know, people were trying to look like they were 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:33.159 being friendly to the community, so uh, we were able 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.000 to make them do something that they had not wanted 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:36.880 to do and had been unwilling to do for years. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.720 What area do you live in yourself? I actually live 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.960 in Hell's Kitchen, so I'm a bit further to the north. UM, 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.640 but I'm a lifelong New Yorker. I've worked in the 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.000 village where I grew up, in the Bronx, but I've 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:49.680 been working in the village and on the West side 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.880 of Manhattan since uh for over twenty years. Where did 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.039 you go to schools? I went to Bronx High School 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.400 of Science. UM, so I've lived in New York my 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.680 whole life. What about college where you go? I went 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.599 to as Leyan University. Would you study art history with 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.720 a focus on architecture and urban planning? Talk about if 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:10.000 you would. What happened to Christine Quinn with the Chelsea Market, 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.640 Because of my understanding is correct, that was in her district. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.120 And I want to be very clear that during that 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.840 political race, I endorsed de Blasio and worked for de 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.040 Blasio and did not support Quinn. And this is not 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.200 you know, to bash Quinn at all, but describe what 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.240 happened in that Chelsea marketing and what you think was 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.640 going on pressures that were on her. Yeah. Well, so 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:34.360 you know, Chelsea Market is this old industrial complex built 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.880 by Nibisco in Chelsea, UM. That was Nibisco Factories, Bisco 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.440 Factories where the oreo was invented bakery. Yeah, and who 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.160 developed into into the current Chelsea market how long ago? 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.160 It was originally another group of people, including a guy 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.479 named Irwin Cohen, and that was in the late ninety 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:53.200 nineties that have been sitting there basically abandoned UM. And 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.080 he came up with this idea that everybody thought was 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:57.640 crazy at the time because this was a real backwater 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:01.919 fifteen years ago, of turning it into this huge retail 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:07.600 market UM with offices and things like that. Yeah, and 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:11.360 it was wildly successful. You know, the neighborhood around it transformed. 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:13.800 It's a huge building. It's a beautiful old building, but 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.839 it's a huge building. They have air rights up above. 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.120 They did not have air rights up above, and that 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:20.800 that's that's where the key comes in with this. So 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.480 they wanted to build basically two towers on top of 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.480 this lovely old building. But they couldn't because they had 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.400 no development on top of the eight stories that are 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.560 already there on top of the building that already exists. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:33.960 So they came to the city and they said, we 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.680 want you to rezone us to give us these stories 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.320 that they Originally it was going to be, uh, the 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.000 addition was going to go up to something like two 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.159 fifty feet in the air or something like that. I 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.520 mean huge, and one on the west end, one on 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.880 the Yeah, yeah, huge building, huge building. Um. And you know, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.000 at this point Quinn had already kind of shown herself 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.440 to be very willing to be accommodating to developers, so 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:00.400 we knew this was going to be an uphill battle 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.880 at best. Although Chelsea was where she was from, and 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.000 a lot of the people who were very animantly opposed 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.240 to it, where people she'd known and worked closely with 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.520 for years, We were opposed to it as well, and 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.240 she did eventually approve it. A slightly scaled back version 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.280 made it a little less a little less bad as 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.120 the work started already. No, and when it's not been 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.200 clear to us why they haven't moved ahead yet, but 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.040 they have all the approval, so it's really up to 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.520 them to go any time that they want. But this 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.800 was definitely a disappointment. And what was particularly disappointing was 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:33.520 that there were commitments that were quote unquote made as 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.840 part of this approval about how it would have to 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.160 remain all independent businesses, there couldn't be chain stores and 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.360 all these other kinds of things, which it turned out 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.120 none of these agreements were enforceable. It was really just 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.040 sort of window dressing to this approval that the city 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.560 gave them, and that's disappointing when you see things like 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.680 that happen. When do buildings need to come down? Things 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.480 have to change, We need to make room for more people. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.560 Is that a reality for you? Oh, it's absolutely reality, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.360 and you know we would want Did you acknowledge that 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.840 one you wanted to save ultimately didn't need to be saved. 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:10.080 I'll give you an example. There's areas of um Our 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:14.120 neighborhoods where we've fought for new zoning that we thought 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:17.440 would encourage good development as opposed to bad developments, which 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.920 meant the expectation was things will get built. Give us 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:22.920 an example of an area where this kim into play. 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:25.520 For instance, in the East Village. We working with a coalition, 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:28.640 we're able to get almost the entire East Village re zoned. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.160 So the old zoning would have encouraged big, tall towers, 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.559 It would have encouraged building things like dormitories and hotels. 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.080 Believe it or not, but as an n y U, 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:38.760 that's where n Yu went to build a lot of 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.960 their dormitories and along Third Avenue in that area. Yes, 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:43.640 and we didn't want to see n Yu take over 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.880 the East Village, so we pushed foreign got a rezoning 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.200 that said, yes, there can be new development here, but 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:50.959 the size and scale of it is going to be 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.840 more like what you think of the East Village. Seven 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:56.800 story building, six story buildings. This is what zoning does. 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.800 You can get these what are called contextual zoning districts 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.199 that says you can build but to a certain high, 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:04.880 certain number of square feet, things of that nature. So 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:06.920 we've seen a lot of developments go up in the 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.160 East Village under this new zoning that are so much 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.320 more in character with the neighborhood than what would have 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.600 been built under the old zoning. So we weren't pushing 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.840 there to say no new buildings or nothing can ever 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:21.480 be torn down, but that there should be new buildings, 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.520 but it should really reinforce the character of the neighborhood. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.400 Just around the corner from our office, there was a 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.840 huge parking lot that was just built on with an 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:31.600 eight or nine story building. Right next door to it 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:33.760 is a dorm that n YU built a couple of 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.240 years earlier. That's twenty six stories. Um, there's been quite 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.040 a few new buildings closer to the traditional campus, but 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.679 this will be a whole additional campus for the university. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.400 Do you feel like, um, the city you turn around 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.040 one day, you know, we have another subway tunnel, we 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.080 have water tunnels that are coming in. I mean, the 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:56.800 city is constantly, constantly, constantly being changed. And if you 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.079 had one wish, I mean, I'm sure you have a 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.760 laundry list of things. What's one wish of how you'd 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:05.720 like things to change in the next thirty years, you know? 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:09.040 I mean, I think the biggest pressing issue facing New 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.000 York is ensuring that it stays a place that's affordable 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.520 and accessible for a broad range of people. So I'd say, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.439 if if I had one wish for the city, it 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:21.240 would be that that somehow we could it could be 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.960 a place where you know, sort of the most successful 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.920 you know, innovators and and zillionaires can live there, and 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.240 poor working folks and the middle class people who are 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.680 you know, sort of raising kids, are starting out or 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.199 living on their own or sort of whatever, and everybody 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.680 in between, you know, the immigrants, the longtime residents, um 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.440 and see some of the steps that were taken to 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:48.640 allow for like Mitchell Lama, that's dying, that Mitchell Lama housing, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:50.720 and it's it's tragic for those who don't know who 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:52.920 we're listening that don't know what Mitchell Lama housing was. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.079 This was an attempt back then to have the city 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.840 developed property where developers would build affordable housing and men 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.160 should as affordable housing. I'm being very shorthand with this, 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.920 and manage it as affordable housing for a given period 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.280 of time, like thirty years or something, and then after 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.160 a certain period of time it would slowly devolve, if 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:15.200 you will, into or evolve into private housing. They would 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.400 sell it as condominiums. And right now we're hitting that 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.959 place where, especially in Manhattan, very few of them are left, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:22.920 a lot of them. Mitchell Lama's rolling over now to 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.800 private condominiums. Which is really changing the city. But New 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:30.360 Yorkers have resigned themselves to the fact that affordable housing itself, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.960 just like pay phones, is a thing of the past, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.079 and now more and more people who never dreamed of 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.839 going to Long Island City and to Astoria and to 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.880 Brooklyn is just a part of Manhattan in terms of 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:42.280 how many people who live and work there and put 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:43.760 their kids in school there, but who work in the 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.160 city and commute. More and more and more people have 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:50.280 resigned themselves or even are happy to commute. Is that 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:53.040 your experience as well? Yeah, And you know, in some ways, 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:54.600 I don't think it's such a bad thing that a 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.960 lot of people who would have only considered living in 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.280 Manhattan before now are living throughout the city. What I 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.120 think would be a terrible thing is if Manhattan became 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:07.079 a place that only the wealthy could live, and that 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.520 more and more the other boroughs that became the case 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.640 as well. I'm not sure that I know what the 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.760 answer is. I mean, clearly, if we had a different 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.720 political environment, we'd have things like Mitchell Armor programs and 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:21.160 other things to create and build affordable housing, saying this 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.280 is an investment in our city's future. The construction is good. 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.160 It creates jobs. The fact that we give good, affordable 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.040 housing to people who we need to you know, uh, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.280 to be teachers, to be firemen, to be a sanitation. 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:35.600 We don't have housing for those people, now, you know, 0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.760 we were One of the first things that happened in 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.520 New York years ago was the police were successful in 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.640 argument against the residency requirement because they said, you can't 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.520 force me to live here because I can't afford the 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.079 rent here on a policeman's salary. So they did away 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.440 with But of course this is a city where rather 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.200 than build affordable housing for people like the police and 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.480 have them invested in the community they live in, they 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.839 all leave, which makes them somewhat us invested, I think 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:02.600 in the community they live in, although many of them 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.720 come from the city. It seems we could do a 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.960 whole hour about the power of the real estate development 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.720 community and the landlords support in this. I mean, they 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.320 run the city. They run the city in so many ways, 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.760 and they run the city. I mean what gets built, 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:18.760 what doesn't get These guys like you fight them and 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:23.040 win because public outrage and public passions about these things 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:27.480 still have some power, right well, all ultimately government makes 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.480 the decisions, and while certainly the people with money and 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.000 access have enormous influence over them, the average people do 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.480 because they vote. And if you, if you exercise that 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.719 um strength that we have, and it's the only thing 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:42.640 we have, is the power of the vote, that's the 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.440 way that we can affect these I want to finish 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:49.120 with this. The society has an LGBT initiative for some 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.520 of the preservation. They do talk about that New York 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:56.040 and especially the village really has such a wealth of 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.000 sights connected to the LGBT les being gay, bisexual, transgend. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.120 The civil rights movements. I mean, uh, the one that 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.280 everybody knows, of course, a Stone Wall where the riots 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.440 took place in nineteen sixty nine, which in many respects 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.920 exactly um, but there's many other ones as well. I mean, 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.160 just around the corner from there, there's Julius Bar, where 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.559 in nineteen sixty six there was this sit in or 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.240 sit in as it was called, the first planned civil 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.600 disobedience for gay rights. At that time, A few people 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.160 sort of know or remember this. It was actually illegal 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.520 to serve alcohol to someone who you knew was a homosexual. Um, 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:35.320 So it in essence made gay bars illegal. That's why 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.840 they were all the Hotel Tennessee. Williams of A stated 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.680 people were breaking the law. I know. Yeah, So as 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.880 a result of this, actually there was a legal case 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.720 that more or less change that um and so that 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.080 was put that in a movie. I love that. Yeah. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.400 You know, back when there were very very very few 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.440 places that gay people could meet, almost all of them 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.840 were in places like Greenwich Village. And this year, in 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.160 late June, just a few days before New York City's 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.680 annual Pride Parade, and after many years behind the scenes politicking, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:12.240 Andrew Berman and his colleagues celebrated early the Stone Wall 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.880 in one it's New York City Landmark status, making it 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.960 the first site designated primarily for its significance to LGBT history. 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.600 Take a listen to the Here's the Thing Archives. I 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.760 talked with another hard working advocate, Josh Fox, the environmental 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:34.000 activist who's filmed gas Land exposed the dangers of fracking. 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:36.040 They would say, oh, your water is fine, and then 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:37.520 they would go and get them a glass of water 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:38.880 to drinks. All right, Well, if you think this is 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.600 fine for my mother to drink, then you go ahead 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.320 and drink it, and they wouldn't drink it. Take a 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:59.000 listen at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:03.200 Baldwin and or listening to Here's the Thing. Conservation isn't 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.080 only about preserving urban sites. It's also about saving a 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.880 way of life. Rob Snyder, president of the Island Institute, 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:15.360 helps communities in remote coastal Maine thrive. I know a 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.040 bit about fishing towns, having spent much of my life 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.800 on Long Island. Pressures are different in eastern Long Island 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.720 and rural Maine, where I live. It's constant commercial development, 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:29.360 but the struggle to survive as a working fisherman remains. 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:34.840 Coastal Maine. As Rob Snyder explained, the situation is more remote. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.320 People is the largest island community in Maine, which one 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.920 Vinyl Haven off of Rockland, Maine, mid coast area, and 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.240 they take a ferry. Yeah, you take a ferry out there. Yeah, 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.280 you take a ferry year round, year round. You can 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.160 take a ferry. If you're on Matinicus, you have to 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.040 take a bush pilot flight on Scotland, air plane flies 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.720 a couple of times a day as long as the 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.440 fog is lifted, and you can get year round so 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:02.560 there's no ferry service too, there's a monthly ferry, so 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.199 I kind of want to go hang out way, Why 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.160 are we interviewing those people? So? You know, I think 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.840 that interestingly though, the kinds of pressure you're talking about 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:16.080 about how to conserve place and conserve community in places 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.080 where the land is finite and so finite, um, you know, 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:25.360 you really have a huge challenge in balancing conservation and community. 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:28.240 Is there pressure to develop those islands? There really isn't 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:30.440 the kind of pressure you're talking about. What you see 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:35.080 more so is the as property values escalate, the year 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.480 round community, the people who have been there for many 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:41.280 generations are having a harder time holding on being able 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.400 to pay their tax bills and stay on the islands, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.080 whereas there be you know, whereas you're seeing increasing pressure 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.520 which changed, Why is it harder? Why is it harder? 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.000 I think there's a two things going on at once. 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:57.400 I think you have uh main is as you point out, 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.159 it's got an iconic stature that the natural beauty of 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.840 the places absolutely stunning, and so it attracts people to 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.480 the coast and more remote more remote. Absolutely people come 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:10.960 there because they want to get away from UM the 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:17.159 New York Yeah, too much about long and they talk 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.440 about the cape and and other places they want to get. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.399 Don't have Tiffany and Maine have a Tiffany No, they 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.600 have not even a Tiffany outlet store. Yeah. If you 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.560 want a shop, you do not go to the main island. Um. 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.560 You know, it's it's a you know. You also have 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.960 pressure because so much land has been conserved over time, 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.359 because the main coast has been a place for rustication 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:41.280 for a hundred plus years, you had people come in 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.160 and conserve large amounts of the main coast, And so 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.360 the communities that are left in these places often are 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.639 highly constrained to raise additional tax money to function as 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.360 a town. A lot of the land is with the tax. 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:59.560 French Borough has of its land conserved. Um where some 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.879 of those families over the last hundred years were the 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.359 families we would know of course, for example, I mean 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.720 that the Rockefellers had. Yeah, and and to their credit 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.280 they put some land aside for future development when they 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.760 made the large land transaction. What we're thinking about now 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:18.760 is because more and more people still can as as 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.520 they should want to consider how to conserve their land 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.280 if there if they're going to sell it off or 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.920 if you know, because generations are changing, the younger kids 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.800 don't necessarily want the property anymore the money. They want 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.640 the money and they also are potentially able to put 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.399 that land into a land trust. So what what is 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:39.359 the town going to do. Well, we're having a lot 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:41.480 of discussions about how can you be really creative about 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.280 conserve land so you can actually contribute to the community's economy. 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:47.520 So on french Borough, you know, they're looking at all 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.680 all options for for example, for example, um, could you 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:55.280 put camping facility on some of that conserved land? And 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.040 that's just one example. In other communities, this is a 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.760 big tension on the customine. How much conserve land is 0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:03.240 enough is often the question. I think the kind of 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.600 the better question is how can we take advantage of 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:09.480 the economic opportunity to conserve land creates. But back then, 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.119 when somebody would have a piece of land, let's say 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.199 it's a thousand acres and you have a compound somewhere 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:16.720 and you pocket a few hundred acres, you pocket a 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.440 couple hundred acres for your descendants, and you're gonna leave 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.200 land people to build houses in the future and then 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:24.600 give away the rest and now that's all kind of changed. 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:28.240 And that's all change in terms of land use. And 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.480 when people are thinking about climate, like you've mentioned climate change, 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:33.720 they're thinking about how can I use this land to 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.200 actually make a difference in the place that I love. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:38.560 I've been coming here as since a child. You know, 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.399 maybe I want to put a solar array on this 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.760 piece of land, or maybe I want to put a 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:45.680 wind turbine on this piece of land. You know you 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.119 doing up in Maine. I think it's doing well. The 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.840 Islands too, worked with the North Haven and Vinyl Haven 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.880