1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff Mom never told you? 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: From House stuffwoards dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 4 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: introversion and extroversion, a lot of which was kicked off 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: by the publication of a book by Susan Caine, who 7 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: is a former lawyer. UM. She wrote the book called Quiet, 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: The Power of Introverts in a World that Can't Stop Talking. 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: And if you've heard about this book, no big surprise, 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: because she went on a huge media tour and the 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: book shot up the New York Times bestseller list. Sitting 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: spent a while. There might still be on there. She 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: should have checked before we came into the studio. UM, 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: but it seemed like Kane received so much uh praise 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: and almost size of relief from people saying, oh, fantastic, 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: introversion is not necessarily a bad thing. No, it's definitely 17 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: not a bad thing she was telling I think she 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: did an interview with Arianna Huffington's UM where she said 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: that when she would tell people what the topic was 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: that she was writing, about she got so many relieved 21 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: responses and people just saying, oh my gosh, let me 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: tell you about my experience. And these people were introverts, 23 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: which just goes to prove introverts do talk yes well. 24 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: In the interview, Arianna Huffington's um talked about how she 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: was an extreme introvert as a child and had this 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: anecdote of what I think it was her fifth birthday? 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: Was it the birthday? Um? At her fifth birthday party, 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: she apparently kicked all of the kids out because she 29 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: just wanted to hold up and read Arianna Huffington's you Know, 30 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: media Mogul. She said that as she grew up, she 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: tried to cultivate eight more extroverted tendencies because you do 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: reap so many benefits from it. But the point of 33 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: it is, um, introversion is not a bad thing. And 34 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: there was also a quiz from Quiet the Power of 35 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: Introverts in the world that can't stop talking to detect 36 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: whether or not you are an introvert or an extrovert. 37 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: I took the quiz, do you have any idea how? 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: I scored about half and half a little more introverted. 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: I am so far on the introvert scale intensely introverted. Huh, well, 40 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: I think that what you're saying is highlighting perfectly the 41 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: theme of everything that we read, which is that society 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: tends to view introverts as really shy people who just 43 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: have no social skills. And Kristen Conger is definitely not 44 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: like that, I assure you people, And so I think 45 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: that's interesting. Yeah, for sure. I took the quiz to 46 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: I mean, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no no, I 47 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: take it, I take it back, take it back, and 48 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: I phone a friend. No, I guess that you are 49 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: extremely extroverted. I I don't remember the exact numbers, but yeah, 50 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: I am. There were a lot of falses because all 51 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: of the statements were introvert related, and it was you 52 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: had to answer true false, and I had way more 53 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: falses than I did true's. It would be interesting compare 54 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: to compare a where we were opposite on those where 55 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: I was a true and you were true for introvert 56 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: and you were false for it. Yeah. I forgot to 57 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: write some of those down. There was one I gave 58 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the quiz to my roommate who was actually according to 59 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: this and it is an unscientific quiz. But according to 60 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 1: the quiz, he is way more introverted than either one 61 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: of us thought. But one of the ones that he 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: wrote false four was people described me as soft spoken 63 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: and mellow, because if you knew my roommate, he is 64 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: definitely not either of those things. Yeah, I put I 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: put false on that as well, because I have such 66 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: a grading vocal tone. But let's talk about introversion versus extroversion. 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: Why do we often get this confused? How does Susan 68 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: Caine offer a broader perspective on introversion and extroversion, which, 69 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: according to personality psychologists, is the single most important aspect 70 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: of our personality, whether we're introreted or extraverted or yes, 71 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: it determines things like our choice of friends and partners, 72 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: how we make conversation and resolve differences and show love. 73 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: It helps determine our careers. For instance, extroverts tend to 74 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: exercise more, cheat on their partners more, and make riskier 75 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: bets on the stock market, even I wouldn't even know 76 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: how to do that. Don't take an extrovert to vegas apparently, 77 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: And then introverts like meat and to function well without sleep. 78 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: I can crouchy can't learn from mistakes and make well 79 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: balanced team leaders. Good. Good for you. I apparently I 80 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: am a terrible person. I had no idea. Um. Yeah, 81 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: According to Kane, really an introvert has to do with 82 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: how the person responds to stimuli, and introverts really prefer 83 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: lower stimulation environments and are not poor. They don't have 84 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: poor social skills. They are differently social, right, Um, it 85 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: just has to do with that lower stimulation. Like you mentioned, 86 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: She often brings up this contrast of whereas an introvert 87 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: would prefer to have a glass of wine with a 88 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: friend and have a long, deep conversation, an extrovert would 89 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: probably prefer to go to a party where they could 90 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: meet a number of new people. Um. And she even 91 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: told this scientific American that introverts salivate even more than 92 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: extroverts do if you place a drop of lemon juice 93 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,119 Speaker 1: on their tongue. It's like we're more more primed for 94 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: stimulation to get overwhelmed more quickly. Interesting. That's really weird. 95 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: But but it is not to imply that introverts are 96 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: inherently shy, right, Because shyness, as Kane goes on to 97 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: talk about, is the fear of social judgment wine a 98 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: quieter setting, preferring that glass of wine with a friend 99 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: does not mean that we are shy, although I definitely 100 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: have shy tendencies, and psychologists do associate shyness with introversion, 101 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 1: but they are not um one and the same, right. 102 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you, an extrovert, can be shy 103 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: in certain situations too. I definitely have moments where I 104 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: am socially afraid. Um. But she talks about how our 105 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: culture seems to just value extroverts more, how everything in 106 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: our culture, from classrooms to work settings is geared towards extroverts, 107 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: and she says that this is part of our cultural 108 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: d n A and that Americans in particular favorite action 109 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: over contemplation. She said. Kane says that this became really 110 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: important at the turn of the twentieth century. Uh, when 111 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: there was the rise of cinema and movie stars, and 112 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it became so important to be 113 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: magnetic and charismatic, and that has carried over and now 114 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: if you're not magnetic and charismatic and something like a 115 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: job interview you you might not get the job. Yeah. 116 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 1: She She talks about the cultural history of introversion and 117 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: extra version, and how extra version really became the coveted 118 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: personality trait around the nineteen fifties, because you have the 119 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: rise of corporate America, you have the rise of cinema 120 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: and television. UM. There's a psychologist at the University of Minnesota, 121 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: Denise as Owns, who found that since television began, Americans 122 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: have elected more extroverted presidents than introverted ones, possibly reflecting 123 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: this UH idealization of magnetism and charm. There's that famous 124 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: story about the presidential debate between Richard Nixon and JFK. 125 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: Was gonna be the first UM televised presidential debate and 126 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: JFK one hands down because Nixon just he didn't he 127 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: didn't look as well on TV. He I think he 128 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: refused to get makeup. Yeah, and he was. He was sweaty, 129 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: both from the temperature and from nerves. I guess Kennedy 130 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: got to sit in a in an air conditioned area beforehand. 131 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: So TV man ruins everything, right. And if you think 132 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: about presidential campaigns now, ones that are going on now, 133 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: so much of it is based on on on personality, 134 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: whereas if you go back to the time of Abraham Lincoln. 135 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: He was a man of strong character. It was the 136 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: culture of character, sort of the strong but silent type, right. 137 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: And there's a lot to do with extroverts and introverts 138 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: and relationships, whether they're in a relationship with each other 139 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: or someone of the same personality type. And like Kristen 140 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, an introvert is more likely to pursue deep 141 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: and meaningful conversations, whereas an extrovert kind of tends to 142 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: stay on the surface and bounce around to two different 143 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: topics with different people. And Sophia Dimmling has done a 144 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: lot of blogging about introversion for Psychology Today, and she 145 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: said that if you're in a relationship with someone of 146 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: a different personality type than you, you should try to 147 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: respect your partner's differences and recognize that they can enhance 148 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: your relationship. For instance, an extrovert can bring new people 149 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: into your life, whereas an introvert can create more peaceful 150 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: spaces in the home and the relationship. Yeah, like Susan 151 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 1: Kane Um, Sophia Denmling is always also an introvert working 152 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: on a book about introverts um. I think her book 153 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: is coming out in two thousand and twelve later on 154 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: this year. And it's interesting that that both of these 155 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: books are really sort of reclaiming the value of introversion 156 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,119 Speaker 1: in today's culture, saying, you know what, it's not even 157 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: even though everything is is so dominated by social media 158 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: and sharing and putting yourself out there. Um, we don't 159 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: need to lose sight of these very powerful traits that 160 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: go along with introversion. And for parents today, I'm sure 161 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: that can be a challenging thing to reconcile as you're 162 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: raising kids that might tend toward the shire side because 163 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: schools are set up in more extroverted fostering atmospheres um 164 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: in we um, you know, and and children will internalize. 165 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember being called shy as a child, 166 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: and kids tend to internalize that association of of shyness 167 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: and introversion as being a negative thing. And I remember being, 168 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: you know, I was. We did our Only Child podcast 169 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: and talked about how only children are more likely to 170 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: associate with adults and be like little adults, and I was. 171 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: I just remember being a kid and getting positive feedback 172 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: over and over again because of how open I was 173 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: with grown ups, and they were like, oh my gosh, 174 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, she's so talkative and everything. And so there 175 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: is that um that encouragement for one way or another. 176 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: And you know, if you have introverted parents, they might 177 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: encourage the more bookish behavior. And talking about parents and kids, 178 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: uh this There was a really interesting article on parents 179 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: dot com. Several psychologists are pointing out that parents are 180 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: putting a lot of value on making their children sociable, 181 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: setting up lots of play dates, getting really concerned if 182 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: their kids don't have a lot of friends at school, 183 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: instead of just sort of letting them be as they are, 184 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: letting them just have a close, tight knit group of 185 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: friends instead of having a ton of friends. And William Doherty, 186 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: a professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota, 187 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: so that if we coach kids not to be who 188 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: they are, we communicate a lack of acceptance. So people 189 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: who tell you, Kristen, stop being so shy, come out 190 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: of your shell. That's like, okay, well, stop being who 191 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: you're naturally inclined to be. Well, it seems like that 192 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: um that anxiety over socializing kids enough, making sure that 193 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: they have enough play dates and get along well enough 194 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: is more of the along the trend of helicopter parenting 195 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: over parenting that has fallen somewhat out of favor. Um, 196 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: because it is so hyperactive in a way, there's there's 197 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: so much value of free time, of letting kids maybe 198 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: foster more introverted traits. Not to say that socializing kids 199 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: is very important, says the former homeschooler, but um over 200 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: scheduling a kid and being an over emphasizing um, their 201 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: social activities might not be so positive either. And the 202 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: thing that parents need to remember is that shy kids 203 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: tend to grow out of their shyness. Now, while it 204 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: might take some kids longer than others, there was a 205 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: study from a Harvard psychologist that followed two d and 206 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: fifty children from infancy and showed that two thirds of 207 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: the kids who were shy as three year olds had 208 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: come out of their shells by age eleven. Even if 209 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily social butterflies, they still have their social moments, 210 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: but that extreme shyness does gradually wear away a lot 211 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: of the time. Yeah, um, it is good to point out, 212 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: I think the effect that a kid's personality can have 213 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: on their education. Though, because as Linda Kreeger Silverman points out, 214 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: she's the director of the Gifted Development Center in Denver. 215 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: Introverted children are less likely to be minuted to a 216 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: prestigious private school because they tend to clam up in 217 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: an interview. They're not gregarious, they're not showing off, you know, 218 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: their little child block building skills. And I mean, I 219 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: remember it because I went to I grew up going 220 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: to a private school, and I remember my interview and 221 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: it was terrifying. I remember I couldn't add twenty two 222 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: and seven. I was like, how can anyone do this? 223 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: This is impossible? But I also remember being kind of giggle. Ay, 224 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: So I don't know how old were you, six or seven. 225 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: It's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure. 226 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: Interview with child well. Susan Kane Um, the author of Quiet, 227 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: would also point out that the school setting and the 228 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: big classroom environment is really forcing a lot of kids 229 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: to be extroverted instead of paying more attention to more 230 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: introverted one on one um learning. Um. She says that 231 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: the emphasis on group activities discounts a lot of kids 232 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: natural preferences to work alone. I mean, I think that 233 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: probably I'm schooling, to be honest, fostered a lot of 234 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: my introversion. I did work by myself. A lot of 235 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: the times it was self directed study, which you could 236 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: say might have been um a negative thing in terms 237 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: of socializing. There was an adjustment once I finally got 238 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: into a classroom setting. It was a learning curve for me. 239 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: But when it came time for say college, and I 240 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: had to study a lot on my own, oh man, 241 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: I could sit down and do it easy. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 242 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: And all of this stuff from school carries right on 243 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: into work because we have this culture of brainstorming and 244 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: group meetings and open plan cubicles where we're all sort 245 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: of smushed together, no doors, no chance for privacy or 246 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: solo work, and that's really not the best environment for 247 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: almost half of the population. Yeah. Jennet Gaudreau over at 248 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: Forbes points out that the amount of personal space allotted 249 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: to employees in the workplace has shrunk six since the 250 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, and we usually have about oh two square 251 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: feet a personal space, and that idea of the value 252 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: of brainstorming really was pioneered in the nineteen fifties by 253 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: an executive named Alex Osborne, and it's only been until 254 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: recently the organizational psychologists are starting to call into question 255 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: whether or not getting into a room with a bunch 256 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: of people and some magic markers is all that effective. Yeah, 257 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: I hate it. Personally, I'm just gonna throw the The 258 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: extrovert does not like brainstorming. I like, I don't mind 259 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: big meetings like if if there's a staff meeting or whatever. 260 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: I don't mind big meetings with a lot of people 261 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: where I can throw my ideas that I'm I'm totally 262 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: fine doing that. But there's something about a meeting where 263 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: you're forced to go in and like trade ideas and 264 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: offer something up. Because that I feel sometimes like I'm 265 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: kind of more half and half introvert extrovert, and part 266 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: of my introverted tendency um and this this I read 267 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: about from Kane is that sometimes I get my best 268 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: years after I leave the meeting because I'm so focused 269 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: on like, okay, think of something. What do they saying, Well, 270 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: they still my idea? Well what can I offer up? 271 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: And so then there's a little bit of anxiety and 272 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: by the time I get back to my desk of like, well, 273 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: I guess I have to email that idea. Well. That's 274 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: why psychologist would point out that having free time and 275 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: understanding how to be by yourself is so important because 276 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: it's a lot of times in those open spaces that 277 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: you allow yourself to flow. And I'm saying flow in 278 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: quotes because that is the you know, this um psychological 279 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: theory of how create. You can foster creativity not through 280 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: trying to force something out in a room with a 281 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: magic marker, having to write down as many ideas as possible, 282 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: but in more relaxed and open spaces. Right and Jenna 283 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: Gudreau who you who you mentioned? In her interview with Kane, 284 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: She points out that charismatic leaders, these extroverts that we 285 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: come to rely on, may earn bigger paychecks, but they 286 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have better corporate performance because a lot of 287 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: times an extroverted boss will, whether they mean to or not, 288 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: end up, as she says, put her stamp on things 289 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: because of her stamp on things, whereas an introverted leader 290 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: might just say, hey, run with your ideas, develop them 291 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: and then you know, and then we'll talk about it. 292 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: She also points out that brainstorming can resolve in lower 293 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: quality ideas because some of the more vocally assertive extroverts 294 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: are the only ones getting their voices heard. Well, that's 295 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: The tricky thing about extroversion and introversion in the office 296 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: places that for UM introverts like me, we have a 297 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: statistically lower chance of being groomed for a leadership because 298 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: the modern workplace does value extroversions so much. And UM 299 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: Adam grant Over at University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School UM 300 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: conducted studies finding that introverted leaders actually have better UM 301 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: leadership capabilities when working with proactive employees because kind of 302 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: like you were talking king about UM, which in a 303 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: Gudreaus reporting over at Forbes, introverted leaders tend to UM, 304 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: I guess cultivate employee ideas more so than extroverted leaders 305 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,719 Speaker 1: might turn a blind a blind eye to them because 306 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: they're they want to show off their own capabilities a 307 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 1: little bit more. Yeah, well, there is a lot of 308 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: advice about how to work together because if if you're 309 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: a loud, talkative, confident extrovert, but you're quiet, confident introvert 310 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: coworker isn't responding to you in the in the way 311 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: that you want, or vice versa UM, it can cause 312 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: some conflict. And Business Week says that if you're an 313 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: introvert managing extroverts, you need to recognize that those people 314 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: thrive on working with others and they are able to 315 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: make sense of the world by talking about at first 316 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: and thinking about it as they go, which is so 317 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: true for me. I I'm a bit of a talker, 318 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: so maybe I'm in the in the right field. But 319 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: if I'm having a problem, like I absolutely need to 320 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: talk it through, and you know, writing it down does 321 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: help and working it through that way. But if I'm 322 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: having a problem personal or work related, I run my mouth. 323 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: But they also say that, you know, they warn introverted 324 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: managers that you're extrovert. Employees tend not to delve very 325 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: deep when discussing issues, but they are comfortable at multitasking 326 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: and moving at a quick pace, so maybe they can 327 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: get things done at the same time. So it sounds 328 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: like it's pretty basic advice to recognize that if you're 329 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: an extrovert, that introverts exist and have different skill sets 330 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: and you do, and vice versa for introverts recognizing and 331 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: managing extroverts and not allowing themselves to be just drowned 332 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: out by extroverts excessive talking. Looking at you, Oh no, no, 333 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: it's not just excessive talking. I say that I say 334 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: that in gest um. But let's move out of the 335 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: workplace into the history books to find out where this 336 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: idea of introver version and extra version came into being 337 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: and why it even exists with what the science behind 338 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:11,200 Speaker 1: these two um personality traits is. Yeah, it all comes 339 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: from Carl Young. Basically, he he coined the term introvert 340 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: in the ninet twenties to describe a person who becomes 341 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: emotionally and physically worn out from being around people for 342 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 1: a long time. And researcher indicates that this is actually 343 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: tied in with how their nervous systems are wired, and 344 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: Kristen kind of touched on that when she mentioned her 345 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: weird lemon drop thing on the tongue. Yes as a 346 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 1: quick refresher, Susan Kine told Scientific American the introverts will 347 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: salivate more than extroverts if you put a drop of 348 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: lemon juice on their tongues and um. While it is 349 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: not exactly the same neuropathways, neuroscience researcher and psychoanalyst Marty 350 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: Olson Laney found that the dopamine produced during a party 351 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: will give extroverted kids a boost. In other words, they 352 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: can kind of stand more of it while it overload 353 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: an introverted child circus and circuit and make them want 354 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: to have a time out, leave, go read their books 355 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: like Arianna Huffington's UM. So, so it seems like there's 356 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: it's that it goes back to that idea of stimulation. 357 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 1: What is Introverted people tend to have the lower threshold 358 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: of stimulation, whether it's for lemon juice or dopamine production, 359 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,479 Speaker 1: perhaps than extroverted kids. Right, And I guess it's it's 360 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: I can understand it. I can understand the introverted person's 361 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: um need to sort of get away from that, But 362 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: it takes a whole lot more for me to feel 363 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: like that, like I need to be out doing something 364 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: all weekend long before I feel like, oh my god, 365 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: I need to go sit in my room and close 366 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 1: the door. Whereas it sounds like an introverted person might 367 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: good alloud party and spend a couple of hours there 368 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: and be like, I don't know about that. I actually 369 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: have a friend who's a high school teacher and at 370 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: the end of the day he needs to just go 371 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: home and sit because he has been in front of 372 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: a bunch of teenagers all day long, talking NonStop, and 373 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: that's not his natural sort of presentation of himself to 374 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: the world. Well, perhaps that relates to the fact that 375 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: going going on this topic of brain science, introverts tend 376 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: to show more activity in regions that regulate rest and digestion, 377 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: whereas outgoing children will show more brain activity in the 378 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 1: fight or flight region. So again it seems to be this, Uh, 379 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: it does go back to that issue of stimulation in 380 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: what areas of the body are um more active than others. 381 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: And I think we should probably talk about two nature 382 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 1: versus nurture, because you mentioned your homeschooling experience and how 383 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: that might have fostered more of an introverted outlook. But 384 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: there's this two thousand eleven study from University of California 385 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: at Santa Barbara which tied extra version to looking strong 386 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: and attractive. Which is not to say that all good 387 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: looking people are naturally extroverted, but they have the theory 388 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: about how good looking, strong babies and children are rewarded 389 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: with a lot of good intention, a lot of cuci 390 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: que belly scratchen um, which causes them to sort of 391 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: mirror that and and respond in a in a positive way. Also, right, 392 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: The psychologist based this theory on UM a term from 393 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: personality psychology called facultative calibration, which is basically a process 394 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: by which genetic traits and in this case, strength and 395 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: attractiveness influence your personality. Because personality psychologists will UM usually 396 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: say that a lot of our personality traits are heritable. 397 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: We do get certain traits from our parents and our grandparents, 398 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: but it's difficult to pinpoint which genes control for which 399 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 1: personality trait UM. So in this study of from University 400 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: of California, Santa Barbara, they calculated that twenty four percent 401 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: of extroversion variants could be explained by the variables of 402 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: physical strength and physical attractiveness because of that positive feedback 403 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: loop from essentially people saying, well, my goodness, you are 404 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: a handsome, strong looking child. High five. UM. One of 405 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: the researchers did point out to Dimbling, who we talked 406 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: about earlier, that UM, it is possible for it to 407 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,959 Speaker 1: go the other way too, that someone who is naturally 408 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: wired to be extroverted, if they are rewarded and encouraged 409 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: to be to exhibit more introverted behavior, they might veer 410 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: more toward that way. Even though something in their brain 411 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: is like go to a party. Go to a party. 412 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: They might sit home and read a book because that's 413 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: what their parents do, that's what they're expected to do. 414 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: But that's a relief though, especially as someone who does 415 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: apparently sit so far on the introversion spectrum, it is 416 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: a relief to know that there is such an interplay 417 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: of nature versus nurture, that are our personality is not 418 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: completely fixed in that way. Sure exactly. Um Dimpling did 419 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: take issue with with some of the methods in this 420 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: University California study because they keep referring to it as 421 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: an extra version continuum, and she just sort of took 422 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: issue with the idea that introversion is the negative end 423 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: of the extra version spectrum. But that would kind of 424 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: exist too. If you think about the big five personality 425 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: traits that come up in psychology a lot, which are 426 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: extra version, openness, conscientiousness, agreeableness, and neuroticism. And neuroticism aside, 427 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: it seems like those those other four are all, you know, 428 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 1: positively associated in our brain. It's they're they're the socially 429 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: desirable traits. But that might have to do with that 430 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: cultural shift from a culture of character to a culture 431 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: of personality, so speaking of traits that run in families 432 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 1: and nature versus nurture. The British Journal of Psychiatry in 433 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: two thousand two published a study that found no difference 434 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: really between the extra version scores for men and women, 435 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: but it was looking at certain traits and siblings, and 436 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: found that scores on extra version and neuroticism, speaking of 437 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: neuroticism are substantially genetically influenced, so there is some of 438 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: that inheritability and also adding some credence of the idea 439 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: of extra version as a socially desirable trait. The same 440 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: study found that high extra version scores were significantly correlated 441 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: to fewer serious episodes of depression, as opposed to neuroticism, 442 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: which not so surprisingly was found to be significantly correlated 443 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: with a number of severe threatening events. UM. But that 444 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: might have to do two with extra version building social networks, 445 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 1: adding that sort of protective layer the tending and befriending theory. 446 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: But um, even though tending and befriending is more associated 447 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 1: with women, we shoulding out that studies on gender differences 448 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: and extroversion and introversion find no major significant differences. UM. 449 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: Susan Kaine says that the gender split is pretty much 450 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: fifty fifty um. And people also tend to become a 451 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: little more introverted as the agency settled down. Um. And 452 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: some studies will find that women tend to be a 453 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: little more extroverted than men. Some find that men tend 454 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: to be a little more extrovert than women. There is 455 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: no clear cut difference, right, which goes to show just 456 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: how even it is pretty much um And as far 457 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: as married couples go, a Fordham University study looked at 458 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: eighty nine married couples and found that females are more 459 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: expressive of their positive emotions and more extroverted than male 460 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: So here's one that says we are more extroverted. Um. 461 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: But the relationship between emotional expressivity and marital satisfaction was 462 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: influenced by the type of emotion being expressed, So essentially, 463 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: if you're expressing angry emotion, you probably aren't as happy 464 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: with your marriage if you're saying this is the best 465 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: thing ever exactly. But they also found that spouses who 466 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: were matched on the extra version scale really didn't experience 467 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: greater satisfaction than those who were mismatched on extra version, 468 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: So it's kind of just how you relate to each other. 469 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: So while extra version might not have much of an 470 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: effect on your marriage, if you are a heterosexual woman, 471 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: it sure could influence how you look at men. A 472 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: two thousand nine study in the Journal of Personality and 473 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: Individual Differences found that extra version is positively associated with 474 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: certain things that women look for in a man, such 475 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: as attractiveness. And they looked at the relationship between each 476 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: of the big big five personality factors that Kristen mentioned 477 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: and found that women's preference for facial masculinity was tied 478 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: only to extra version, not to the other traits. And 479 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: so they talk about how masculine facial characteristics are positively 480 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: correlated with, you know, indicase of men's health. So there's 481 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: all this weird stuff about extroversion and women's preferences. So 482 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: that would seem like it would uh confirm a little 483 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: bit the findings from the twenty eleven University of California 484 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: at Santa Barbara study about that link between extra version 485 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: and appearance of strength and handsomeness and what a handsome 486 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: child of high scores on the handsome scale. But we 487 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: must underscore that the you know, again, it's it's twenty 488 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: to of that of the link between the physical characteristics 489 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: and the personality characteristics. So it's not to say, you know, 490 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: only attractive people can possibly be extroverted. That's not or 491 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: only extroverted women will appreciate a masculine looking man, right, 492 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: I mean I just yeah, exactly. Um. But there are 493 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: a couple of things to close this out on a 494 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: happy note. There are a couple of things that you 495 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: introverts should remember that you are worth something people. I am, 496 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: you are you are Kristen, and you should stop trying 497 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: to go against your nature. Yeah, Psychology today, which has 498 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: a huge amount of resources for introverts, says, don't isolate 499 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: yourself too much. Dimpling rights that when she feels herself 500 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: getting weird, she seeks out some face time with a friend. 501 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: Basically when she's like, I don't even know if I 502 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: can interact with other people anymore, then she knows it's 503 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: time to get out of the house. That happens to 504 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: me sometimes I'm not gonna lie. I'm working from home 505 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: a lot. There are those moments. In addition, you know, 506 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: there are a lot of things out there that say 507 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 1: that introverts might hate the phone, but you should probably 508 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: call people back at some point or email them at 509 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: some point. And don't forget that plunging right into deep 510 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: conversations with people at a party can be slightly off putting. 511 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: Maybe don't start talking about wars and politics right off 512 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: the bat. Um and Dimpling points out that friendships do 513 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: build incrementally and they start with small talk. Small talk 514 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: greases the wheels of society, so we can't dismiss extroverts 515 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: and their chit chat so easily. And then, um, this 516 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: is the one that really rings true for me. Is 517 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: not confusing fear and introversion because is introversion undervalued in 518 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: our society? Yes, I think that we could absolutely conclude 519 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: that it is because there is a lot of value 520 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: to having a little more time by yourself seeking the 521 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: lower stimulation, having the deeper one on one conversations, rather 522 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: than meeting a bunch of new acquaintances. Not to say 523 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: that I don't like meeting new people, which I do, um, 524 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: but it's it's so culturally associated with shyness as a 525 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: negative trait that I think, Um, it's a great thing 526 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: that Susan Caine um, and also Sandra Dublin who's got 527 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: the book coming out too on introversion are bringing more 528 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: awareness to the other side of that personality coin exactly, 529 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: be who you are, Be who you are, let your 530 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: kids be who they are, and we should we should 531 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: post a link to that introversion extra version quiz so 532 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: that listeners can also see how introverted or extroverted they are. 533 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: Are you a Carolina or Kristen? Find out? So that's 534 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: all we've got to tell you. You tell us about 535 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: your introversion extra version stories. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot 536 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: com is where you can send them. You can also 537 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: post them on Facebook and if they're real short, you 538 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: can tweet them to us at mom Stuff Podcast. And 539 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,959 Speaker 1: we've got an email here. In response to our episode 540 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: interviewing Melissa Petro a k the Hooker Teacher, indeed this 541 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: is from Lori she has. She says that while I 542 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: have no experience with sex work, I did go to 543 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: college with a couple of single mothers who were paying 544 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: their way through school and supporting their families by working 545 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: as strippers. These were not women who were being forced 546 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: to do this or or who were dumb women. These 547 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: were older women who had married, had a family and 548 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: become single mothers and then decided to go back to 549 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: school to further their education. These were smart, strong women. 550 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: While most people would look down upon them for their 551 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: choice of jobs, I always admire these women for doing 552 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: what they had to do in order to make a 553 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: better future for themselves and their children. I know the 554 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: subject of legalizing sex work is a touchy subject with 555 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: many points to be considered, but my thought is that 556 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 1: it may be a way to help eliminate a lot 557 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: of crimes. And you're being forced to do something illegal, 558 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: you are less likely to go to the police and 559 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: report a climb against yourself or the fact that you 560 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: were being forced to do the illegal activity. How many 561 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: women would call the police and report that they are 562 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 1: shoplifting because their boyfriend, husband, et cetera is making them 563 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 1: do it. The same is true with prostitution. If it 564 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: were legal, then the people employed in this industry would 565 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: be more likely to report crimes against them without needing 566 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: to fear that they themselves would be arrested. So thank you, 567 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: Lorie and to everyone else who has written in Mom's 568 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: stuff at Discovery dot Com is the email addressed, and 569 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: of course you can find us on Facebook and Twitter. 570 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: At Mom's Stuff Podcasts, and you can also head over 571 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: to our webs ight during the week to see what 572 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: we're writing about. It's how Stuff works dot com. Be 573 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 1: sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from 574 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 1: the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore 575 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 1: the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The House 576 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: Stuff Works iPhone app has a ride. Download it today 577 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 1: on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand 578 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,840 Speaker 1: twelve camera. It's ready, are you