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Speaker 1: This is Teddy t PO. Hi guys, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: this week of Teddy Teapod. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: emailing in. We did a podcast on infertility, and so

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Speaker 1: many responses about like, hey, Teddy, cover the other side

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Speaker 1: of the story, people who don't want to have kids,

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Speaker 1: so um, I wanted to lean into that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know from my own personal experience. I

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Speaker 1: most of you guys know, I used to ride horses

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Speaker 1: professionally and before I met my husband, that's what I did,

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Speaker 1: and I always said, you know what, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to have kids. It's not something I'm interested in doing.

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Speaker 1: I really want to focus on my riding career. And

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Speaker 1: it it wasn't something I even put much thought into.

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Speaker 1: It was just something I would say because I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, this is something that you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: on the road all the time. It's not going to

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Speaker 1: work for for this lifestyle and blah blah blah. And

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Speaker 1: then I met Edwin and I still kind of thought

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Speaker 1: that same way. And it wasn't until I met his

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Speaker 1: daughter that I was like, wow, I you know, this

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Speaker 1: is something I really do want and that all those

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Speaker 1: reasons I was feeling that way was because of fear

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Speaker 1: of being vulnerable or not being the perfect mother or

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Speaker 1: any of those things. So that, you know, also kind

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Speaker 1: of plays into this topic that we're in because I

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Speaker 1: know that people can change their mind, but I also

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Speaker 1: know that some people will not change their mind. And

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Speaker 1: I said something on the show that I'm on my

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Speaker 1: very first season, and I it was when I was

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Speaker 1: talking about my infertility struggles, and I said something along

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Speaker 1: the lines of, you know, when I couldn't get pregnant,

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Speaker 1: I was putting so much pressure on myself and I

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Speaker 1: was really beating myself up because I couldn't get pregnant,

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Speaker 1: and I felt like it was my job as a woman.

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Speaker 1: And I cannot even tell you how many people reach

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Speaker 1: out to me enraged, like how could you say that?

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Speaker 1: And it was my own personal pressure I had put

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Speaker 1: on myself that you know. Of course, I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like everybody should feel that way, but it was something

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Speaker 1: I had done. But that really leads me to that

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Speaker 1: topic of yes, for the other side of the coin,

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Speaker 1: for the people that don't want to have kids versus

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Speaker 1: the people being okay with not having kids due to circumstances.

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Speaker 1: You know, somebody I know is talking about how people

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Speaker 1: will constantly ask her how many kids do you have?

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Speaker 1: And she goes zero and she just watches their face

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Speaker 1: panic and squirm on what to ask next. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even our own engineer Eastern has shared with us that

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Speaker 1: he and his wife do not want to do not

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Speaker 1: want kids. Can you share a little it about that

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Speaker 1: thought process? How you guys came along to discussing that?

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Speaker 1: Was it right from the beginning? Yeah? Yeah, when we

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Speaker 1: got married two years ago, so something we talked about.

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Speaker 1: And at the time we were very much like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't I at least I want to

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Speaker 1: do it right now. You know, that's if that's something

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Speaker 1: we want to do, it's not right now. And now

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Speaker 1: it's been a couple of years, we talked about it

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Speaker 1: again and we're like, I don't, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: do Neither of us has had that drive to like

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Speaker 1: to be a parent or um continue our our d

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Speaker 1: na um and uh, you know, for a while I

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Speaker 1: felt like it was wrong or something, you know, but

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Speaker 1: I thought about it, and uh, I just I would

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Speaker 1: feel so guilty bringing a life into this world that

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Speaker 1: I wasn't like absolutely dying to have, you know, and

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Speaker 1: do you feel like your family or her family ever

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Speaker 1: puts pressure on you guys or your friends asked questions

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Speaker 1: like well, when you guys gonna have kids? You know?

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Speaker 1: And what is your response to that? And then do

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Speaker 1: you think you're judged? Afterwards? My my dad wants us

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Speaker 1: to have kids so badly, so badly, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: like it's irritating, but I, you know, I tell him like, no,

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Speaker 1: it's it's probably not gonna happen, So get get used

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Speaker 1: to that idea. And then, um, you know, if I

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Speaker 1: meet people, because when you tell someone you're you're probably

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Speaker 1: not going to have kids, they think like, oh, well

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Speaker 1: do you I have kids? Do you dislike me? Do

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Speaker 1: you think I'm doing something wrong? You know? And the

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Speaker 1: and the answer is no, Like like, I love a

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Speaker 1: lot of my friends have kids, and I love those

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Speaker 1: kids and I love my friends. Um, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't drink either, And that's a there's a very similar

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Speaker 1: I've seen a similar reaction when if someone says like, oh,

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Speaker 1: do you want to get drink with me? Actually I

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Speaker 1: don't drink. Then it becomes like, oh, well, you're attacking

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Speaker 1: me or something because I do. And the answer is no,

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Speaker 1: I'm very self centered. I'm I'm very I only focus

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Speaker 1: on myself, another reason why I don't think I should

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Speaker 1: have kids. But um, uh I do feel a certain

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Speaker 1: amount of pressure. I think it's much less than it

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Speaker 1: used to be. I think, like, you know, twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: it was a lot worse. But uh, I still do

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Speaker 1: feel pressure from people to to you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: married for x amunty years, you should start a family. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like protocol. Yeah, it's like, hey, hey man,

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Speaker 1: the funny games are over. You gotta you gotta start

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Speaker 1: raising kids. But so do you, guys, do you and

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Speaker 1: your wife ever think about, oh, maybe we'll change our mind,

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Speaker 1: are you guys? Like no, I I really feel because

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Speaker 1: somebody we're going to have a guest on later who

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Speaker 1: she did a documentary and one of the people in

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Speaker 1: the documentary is a twenty five year old who wants

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Speaker 1: to sterilize herself so she cannot the possibility of having

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Speaker 1: kids is no longer an option, and you know, like,

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Speaker 1: so of course I understand somebody not wanting to, But

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Speaker 1: then I also wonder, like what if you change your mind?

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Speaker 1: You know, like, how do you how do you really know? Exactly.

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Speaker 1: We're not at the point where like I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be undergoing any medical procedures to prevent That's what I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, Like, would you have a vasectomy? No? No,

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Speaker 1: I I'm not against it. You know a lot of

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Speaker 1: my friends have had vasectomies and they have very healthy,

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Speaker 1: fun lives. Um, I'm I'm not. Like, Obviously, people can

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Speaker 1: grow and change, and people's perspectives on life change, so um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's totally all the cards,

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Speaker 1: but I'm you know, hey, I'm thirty two. It's not

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Speaker 1: I'm not getting any younger, you know, and and uh,

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Speaker 1: I know our window to to do it in a healthy,

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Speaker 1: easy ways closing. So you know, we've talked about if

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Speaker 1: we're gonna do it, we'll probably adopt. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably what we would do. Yeah. I think it's

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Speaker 1: just such an interesting topic because there is so many

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Speaker 1: i mean, even celebrities out there who have chosen not

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Speaker 1: to have kids. You know, I can run down the list.

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Speaker 1: It's Sarah Paulson, Alison Breed, Tracy Ellis Fross, Helen Mire

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Speaker 1: and Kim Cortrelle, Jennifer Aniston, Oprah Renfrey, Cameron Diaz, Ashley

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Speaker 1: Jed Winona Rider, Rashida Jones, Cameron Diaz, Chelsea Handler, Ellen DeGeneres,

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Speaker 1: Oprah Renee Zewager, Mersa, Tomay, Rachel Ray, Betty White. And

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Speaker 1: yet you're constantly reading in the press so and so

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Speaker 1: is pregnant. You know, like it's like we just can't

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Speaker 1: accept that somebody may not want to have kids. So

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Speaker 1: what is it in us that feels the need to

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Speaker 1: just drive that home or make somebody that's made that

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Speaker 1: choice uncomfortable? What is it in us that feels the

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Speaker 1: need that we have to understand their exact feeling and um,

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Speaker 1: So that's why I'm so excited to have these different

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Speaker 1: people on that have completely different experiences talking about the

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Speaker 1: difference between childless two child free. So, guys, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: take a little break and then we're gonna have Amy

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Speaker 1: Blackstone on. She wrote a book called child Free by Choice,

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Speaker 1: and I think she'll be awesome to talk to about

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Speaker 1: this topic. Oh and other news, I have a gift

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Speaker 1: for y'all. If you are in l A or southern

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Speaker 1: California and you love Cheryl Crow, we have something special

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Speaker 1: for you. See Cheryl Crow in a private performance at

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Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio Theater in Los Angeles. The best part,

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Speaker 1: it's free, y'all know I love free. All you have

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Speaker 1: to do is email us at Teddy t at I

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Speaker 1: Heart radio dot com to r s v P. The

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Speaker 1: show is Monday, December two at seven pm. So guys,

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Speaker 1: we have Amy Blackstone on the line. She wrote child

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Speaker 1: Free by Choice. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so I have to ask this first, Um, do

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Speaker 1: you have kids? I do not? You do not? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So what kind of led you to write this book? Well? UM,

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Speaker 1: very appropriate that you asked the question, because although the

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Speaker 1: book is based on my sociological research on the topic,

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Speaker 1: what what drove me to do? This research really was

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Speaker 1: a personal quest. Um. I'm forty seven years old now,

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Speaker 1: and when I was in my mid thirties, I had

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Speaker 1: a bunch of friends, one after another, UM share with

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Speaker 1: me that they were pregnant and they were happily so

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Speaker 1: and I was happy for them. UM, but I realized

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Speaker 1: that as they were starting their families to use the

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Speaker 1: most common vernacular, UM, I wasn't feeling the same poll

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Speaker 1: toward motherhood that so many of them described. So I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to understand I started out wanting to understand

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Speaker 1: what was wrong with me, and discovered that I'm not

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Speaker 1: alone in in this sort of lack of of poll

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Speaker 1: toward motherhood. And then in fact, um what we think

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Speaker 1: of as the natural drive to become a mother is

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Speaker 1: really more social than it is genetic. And the research

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Speaker 1: took off from there. So I learned that early on,

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Speaker 1: and then I started interviewing a lot of child free

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Speaker 1: women and men to learn about their experiences with that

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Speaker 1: identity and then also to try to understand what drove

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Speaker 1: that choice for them. Right, And I have a question.

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Speaker 1: I know you're speaking a lot about women, but isn't

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Speaker 1: there men as well who don't want to have kids.

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Speaker 1: I mean, even George Clooney had said, I've always known

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Speaker 1: fatherhood wasn't for me. Raising kids is a huge commitment

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Speaker 1: and has to be your top priority. For me, that

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Speaker 1: priority is my work. That's why I'll never get married again.

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Speaker 1: Well he did say that, but then look what happened.

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Speaker 1: Things change, so that's you know, it's definitely not just

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Speaker 1: a women thing. But I I'm just curious because I

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Speaker 1: I do completely understand, but why is it has it

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Speaker 1: become something where if somebody meets somebody over a certain age,

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Speaker 1: The first question is how many kids do you have?

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Speaker 1: And then what what's what's good answer to give back?

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Speaker 1: I mean, what is a way to kind of I

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Speaker 1: mean in a way of saying this and the not

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Speaker 1: nicest way to shut them up? Well, I mean in

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Speaker 1: fairness to people who ask that it is for many people,

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Speaker 1: it's a safe ice breaker. It's an easy thing to

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Speaker 1: ask about, and more people of a certain age have

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Speaker 1: children than don't, so it does feel like a comfortable

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Speaker 1: thing to ask. But yes, you raise a good point, Well,

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Speaker 1: how do you reas on if you're either a person

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Speaker 1: like myself who has opted out of parenthood or or

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Speaker 1: I think even worse, if you're a person who wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a parent but couldn't become one for any

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Speaker 1: number of reasons. That question can really be hurtful for people.

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Speaker 1: So one one way that I respond when I get

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Speaker 1: that question is I say, well, I don't have any kids,

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Speaker 1: but one thing that I'm really passionate about is skiing

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Speaker 1: or roller derby, or I love reading about wine, and

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Speaker 1: try to direct the conversation to another area where we

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Speaker 1: might find some common ground. And how do you kind

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Speaker 1: of Because a lot of it is the difference between

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Speaker 1: not wanting to have kids or people that, because of circumstances,

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Speaker 1: don't have kids. And I feel like then people want

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Speaker 1: to grill even more on that, or what if you

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Speaker 1: change your mind or you know, all of those things.

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Speaker 1: I mean I even I even asked that question, and

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Speaker 1: I have to like stop myself, right, Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: I think that in terms of people who make the

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Speaker 1: choice not to be parents, it's important to take them

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Speaker 1: at their word, to trust what they're saying. And that

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean that everybody you know holds firm in that decision.

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Speaker 1: Some people George Clooney is a great example, do change

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Speaker 1: their minds, but that doesn't mean that everybody does, Nor

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Speaker 1: does it mean that we shouldn't take people at their

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Speaker 1: word in the moment that they're sharing it. And why

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Speaker 1: do you think there's like a shame around it around

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Speaker 1: not being a parent? Yes, Like why do why do

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Speaker 1: people put that on to well? I honestly think that

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Speaker 1: for many people, the idea that parenthood is actually a

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Speaker 1: choice is so foreign, I mean especially for girls. I

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Speaker 1: mean think about walking down like the aisle of a

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Speaker 1: toys are us and the boy's aisle versus the girl's aisle.

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Speaker 1: We know that girls are taught from a very young

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Speaker 1: age that a natural role for them is to become

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Speaker 1: a mother. There that's expected, uh, and it's expected that

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Speaker 1: they will feel riven to do that. So to challenge

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Speaker 1: that idea, I think really for some people it gets

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Speaker 1: to their core understanding of the way the world works,

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Speaker 1: and so when you question that, it calls all kinds

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Speaker 1: of things into question for them. Yeah. And I mean

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Speaker 1: I also feel that sometimes people start saying, um, my

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Speaker 1: life is more fulfilled because I have children than you,

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Speaker 1: you know, that type of thing, and they're starting to

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Speaker 1: put that on somebody which is their own, I mean,

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Speaker 1: their own issues. I I guess, I just I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to understand how we as a community can be more

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Speaker 1: understanding and less judgmental. Yeah, I mean, that's that's the ideal,

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Speaker 1: and that this is one of the things I addressed

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Speaker 1: in my book that yes, it's true for many parents,

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Speaker 1: having children maybe the most fulfilling thing for them, and

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Speaker 1: that's wonderful, But that doesn't mean that there aren't other

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Speaker 1: ways to find fulfillment. And there are many ways to

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Speaker 1: leave a legacy to make a difference in the world

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Speaker 1: and I think if we can get ourselves to understand

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Speaker 1: that parenthood is one way to do that and an

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Speaker 1: important way to do that, but not the only way

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Speaker 1: to do it, will start to understand the child free

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Speaker 1: choice a little bit better. And I mean I think also,

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Speaker 1: something that you hear a lot is like, we decided

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Speaker 1: to have a kid to save our marriage. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that how is that any better of a choice? You know? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you raise a good point. One thing I

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Speaker 1: heard from many of the child free women and men

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Speaker 1: I interviewed was that they recognize that parenthood is such

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Speaker 1: an important role and takes so much effort that only

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Speaker 1: people who truly want to do it, only people who

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Speaker 1: are all in and going in eyes wide open, should

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Speaker 1: be doing it because it's hard enough, and we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be having people do it for any other reason than

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Speaker 1: that they want to do it. Yeah, I mean. And

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Speaker 1: then also I've as I started reading, you know, different

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Speaker 1: research and things like that, I've noticed that the reason

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Speaker 1: that women kind of say they don't want is a

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Speaker 1: little bit different than the men. The men's like I

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Speaker 1: love to travel, I want to you know, I like

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Speaker 1: to continue living this life, where a woman maybe like

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Speaker 1: I just don't have that urge, And yeah, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: One of the other differences I've found in my own

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Speaker 1: research was that women are more likely to mention an

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Speaker 1: interest in nurturing the relationships that they have at present.

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Speaker 1: So often that's with a spouse or a partner. So

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Speaker 1: many of the women that I interviewed said, you know,

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Speaker 1: my relationship with my husband is so important to me

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Speaker 1: that I don't want to have to give up time

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Speaker 1: to that. I don't want to have to give up, um,

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Speaker 1: all of the things that I do to nurture that connection.

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Speaker 1: And and it was more often women than men that

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Speaker 1: mentioned that. And do you think in the next ten

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Speaker 1: years things will change, like will become more commonplace and

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Speaker 1: more accepted to not want kids? I hope so. And

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Speaker 1: if we look at the way that our culture has

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Speaker 1: changed over the last forty years, I would say that

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Speaker 1: that's the direction we're headed in. Um. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: somebody proclaimed that they had opted out of parenthood forty

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Speaker 1: or fifty years ago, the the societal reaction to that

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Speaker 1: was much stronger than than it is today. So well,

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Speaker 1: child free people still today get a lot of pushback,

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Speaker 1: and there's certainly still a stigma associated with the choice.

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Speaker 1: We're in a better place than we were decades ago,

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Speaker 1: and so I have to believe, in part because I'm

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Speaker 1: an optimist, that we will be in a better place

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Speaker 1: in future decades. And I have a question. Are you

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Speaker 1: in a relationship? I am. I'm going to celebrate my

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Speaker 1: twenty five anniversary next month of congratulations, thank you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: studies show that that child free women are the happiest

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Speaker 1: group of people. Well, they do, but I will on

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Speaker 1: one thing to note is that for parents happy, there's more.

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Speaker 1: It's more of a roller coaster. Right. Well, I have

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Speaker 1: a question. So, from the very beginning, was this a

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Speaker 1: topic that you and your husband fully agreed on. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's funny it was, but we both assumed that we

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Speaker 1: would become parents. Um So. The choice not to become

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Speaker 1: a parent was one that we made over time. And

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Speaker 1: we got married pretty young. I was twenty two, he

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Speaker 1: was twenty three. This was he was my high school sweetheart,

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Speaker 1: um so, and I spent my whole teenage years babysitting,

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Speaker 1: I nanny throughout college. So I really did think that

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Speaker 1: I was destined for motherhood and my husband assumed the

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Speaker 1: same thing. And then over the years, um for the

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Speaker 1: first ten years or so of our marriage, I just

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Speaker 1: kept saying, I'm too young, I'm too young, I'm too young,

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Speaker 1: I'm not ready yet. And then by the time I

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Speaker 1: hit my mid thirties, when friends of mine were becoming mothers,

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Speaker 1: I realized, you know, I really don't think I want

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Speaker 1: to become mother so but it definitely was a process,

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Speaker 1: and my husband and I would check in with each

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Speaker 1: other every few years, and neither of us that felt

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Speaker 1: compelled at any point to do it. And then we

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Speaker 1: finally just embraced the reality that that we liked our

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Speaker 1: lives as it was as it was, and that we

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Speaker 1: wanted to stay child free. And I mean, you guys

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Speaker 1: are that that's great, because oftentimes that's not the case, right,

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Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I mean we we are really lucky,

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Speaker 1: frankly that we came to the same place, because that's

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Speaker 1: not always true for couples. And I do think this

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Speaker 1: is one of the biggest deal breakers for couples because

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Speaker 1: having kids is not something that you can compromise on.

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Speaker 1: Either you have them or you don't. And what do

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Speaker 1: you recommend to our listeners out there that don't want

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Speaker 1: to have kids, but they're you know, in a newish relationship.

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Speaker 1: It's not in their opinion. They don't even know if

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Speaker 1: they're going to get married or what's going to happen next.

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Speaker 1: So when do you think that conversation starts to happen.

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Speaker 1: And also how do you get that person to actually

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Speaker 1: believe you, because as I've heard, I've heard men all

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Speaker 1: the time, you know, or women say I don't want kids,

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Speaker 1: but like it's you know, ten years later they have

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Speaker 1: three little ones. Well, this is a question that I

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Speaker 1: get all the time from the child free people that

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Speaker 1: I meet with and work with. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: super important to be as honest as you can be

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Speaker 1: from the from the very beginning. Um. And as I

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Speaker 1: said earlier, taking people at their word is critical. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, do people change their minds Sometimes they do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But um, better to be honest from the beginning than

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Speaker 1: than not. So I think the best way to head

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Speaker 1: it off again is to talk about It might feel

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Speaker 1: funny talking about having kids when you're newly dating a person, um,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's a signal of your values and

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Speaker 1: the life that you envisioned for yourself. And those are

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Speaker 1: things that I think people at any stage of dating

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Speaker 1: should be talking about and I have a question, do

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Speaker 1: you think that this decision comes, you know, from a

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Speaker 1: very very at a very young age, like to the

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Speaker 1: point where like something may have happened, Like a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine always says, people always ask me when I

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Speaker 1: say I don't have kids, did something happen when you

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Speaker 1: were younger? Do you have daddy issues? Like they started

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Speaker 1: like going into this rabbit hole of trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out and like diagnose why you've made this decision. Do

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Speaker 1: you think there's anything that happens in you know, nurture

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Speaker 1: that switches this um. The data don't indicate that that

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Speaker 1: that's the case. I have to confess that that was

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Speaker 1: the stereotype that I myself had of people who opt

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Speaker 1: out of parenthood. So when I went when I started

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Speaker 1: the research myself, I thought, Okay, I'm a special case

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Speaker 1: because I had a great childhood. My parents were wonderful

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Speaker 1: at their job, they're still married, but I must be unusual.

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Speaker 1: And what I learned was actually, many child free people

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Speaker 1: don't have kids because they understand what what a job

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Speaker 1: it was for their parents and what it took for

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Speaker 1: them to be good parents, and and you know, have

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Speaker 1: decided they want to dedicate their attention and their lives

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Speaker 1: to other causes. But um, there really isn't a lot

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Speaker 1: of evidence to suggest that child free people are more

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Speaker 1: likely to have had, you know, a terrible childhood than

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Speaker 1: people who have children. So it is a stereotype, it's

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Speaker 1: not supported. Yeah, And do you think if more Oftentimes

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Speaker 1: when celebrities choose not to have children, they just don't

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Do you think if it was more

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Speaker 1: spoken about then it would become more accepted or do

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Speaker 1: you think it would have any impact? Oh? I totally

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Speaker 1: think it would have an impact. And yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: shout out to all of the celebrities who are child free,

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Speaker 1: please talk about it because those who have have made

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Speaker 1: such a difference. Not just to child free people, although

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Speaker 1: seeing you know, seeing people in the public eye who

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Speaker 1: are living lives of their choosing and and openly proclaiming

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Speaker 1: their choices can be so gratifying um as a child

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Speaker 1: free person, but also um opening up the conversation so

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Speaker 1: that everybody understands that parenthood is and can be and

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Speaker 1: should be a choice rather than a mandate. Um, I

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Speaker 1: think we'll serve everybody well. So the more people who

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Speaker 1: are in the public eye can be open about their choice,

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Speaker 1: the better for everyone. Yeah, I mean you would think

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Speaker 1: the fact that Oprah doesn't have kids would make it

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Speaker 1: like a more I hate to use it the word

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Speaker 1: in quotes acceptable thing because you know she's Oprah right exactly,

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Speaker 1: But I agree with you. But I also think she

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Speaker 1: has done a lot for the child free community by

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Speaker 1: simply being open about her choice. Um, we get to

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Speaker 1: see that. Oh yeah, even this amazingly successful, generous, kind,

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Speaker 1: wonderful person. It's not a mother now. It's incredible. And

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing with us and giving

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Speaker 1: us your information, like all of your research. It's it's

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Speaker 1: been really helpful. So I appreciate at You're welcome. It's

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Speaker 1: been fun. Thank you. All Right, talks in Okay, Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: we are back from our break. I wanted to get

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Speaker 1: a millennials perspective, so we are going to get Mary

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Speaker 1: on the phone and chat with her. Hi. Mary, thanks

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Speaker 1: for taking the time to speak with us, of course.

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Speaker 1: Um So I have a quick question for you in

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Speaker 1: the younger generation and between you and your friends, do

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Speaker 1: you think this is like a rising trend right now? Um?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, if it's my I don't know about

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Speaker 1: the younger generation. I'm thirty two, and all of our

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Speaker 1: friends have kids, So I don't know if it's maybe

428
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: um like now with like the millennials or younger kids,

429
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: like maybe that's what's going on, but I'm not sure.

430
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: For my group and my generation, I'm probably really one

431
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: of the few that, um that we're not having kids.

432
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: Are you married? Yes? Been married for five years? Been

433
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 1: with each other for wow? And did you guys speak

434
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: about it from the beginning? Um, it was never like

435
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 1: to sit down conversation when we started dating. I think

436
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: we were just both young and we're both kind of

437
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,959
Speaker 1: the babies of the family of both of our sides.

438
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 1: Um that we kind of just like grew up, not

439
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: like grew up together. But I was like twenty one

440
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 1: or yeah, I'm twenty when we met, so we kind

441
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: of both just feel the same way. And do you

442
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: think that there was an actual reason why you decided

443
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: not to have kids? Yeah, I think honestly, I think

444
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: that kids are huge responsibility and I think, like watching

445
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: everybody have kids, I feel like it takes like a

446
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 1: really big toll on a lot of people's relationships. And

447
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 1: to be honest, it might sound selfish, but like, I

448
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: really enjoyed me in my husband's life. I like that

449
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: we can go see a movie a Wednesday without like

450
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: having the planet months before, and get a babysitter. I

451
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: like just like picking up and we go to Newport

452
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: and we can spend the night if we want. Like, Um,

453
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: I just really enjoy that. So that's funny. That's actually

454
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: the number we just had another specialist on and that

455
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: was the number one reason she said it ends up happening. Um,

456
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: do you think your husband feels exactly the same way. Yeah,

457
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: I feel like. I mean we both I feel like

458
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: we do. I mean we've talked about it. Obviously, it's

459
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,719
Speaker 1: not like an unspoken you know, but I yeah, I

460
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: think he feels the same way. And we're both like

461
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: he has brothers and I'm the baby of three sisters,

462
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: and I feel like we both love being an aunt

463
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: and uncle and we get to babysit them and spoil

464
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: them and kind of take advantage of being a full

465
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: aunts and uncle and then we get to do our

466
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: own thing and travel and um, you know, not have

467
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: that huge responsibility. That's such a good point because so

468
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: often we think that because somebody doesn't want kids, that

469
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: it means they don't being around kids, But really that's

470
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 1: not the case at all. You love doing it, You

471
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: love being an auntie, love doing all of those things.

472
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: You just know for yourself, it's a personal decision. I

473
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: we love. All of our friends have kids, and the

474
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: kids come over all the time and we get to

475
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: be like the fun aunt and uncle, and I love

476
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: my nieces to death. I just don't personally, it's not

477
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: for me, but I like love them. It doesn't Yeah,

478
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: I think everyone thinks that just because you don't want kids,

479
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: everyone thinks you hate kids. But it's not it at all.

480
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: And how do your parents feel about it? I think

481
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: I am actually in the clear because I have older siblings.

482
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: I think it would be a lot harder if I

483
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 1: was the only child. It would be a lot more pressure.

484
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: But I think that they just know how we've We've

485
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: been together for so long and it's not like a

486
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: rash decision. It's just something. I think they get it now.

487
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: I think it's a lot. It seems a lot harder

488
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: raising kids today with social media and the phones, Like

489
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: we didn't grow up like that. I didn't get a

490
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: phone until I was driving at sixteen. So I think

491
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: they get it their grandparents now right. I mean, do

492
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: you feel like you get any pressure, any shame, or

493
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: any of those types of things by friends or people

494
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,959
Speaker 1: that ask you, guys those questions or has it become

495
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: more acceptable? I think in the beginning I did. Like

496
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: when we got married at I was and no, none

497
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: of our friends had kids yet, so we everyone was like, oh,

498
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: are you gonna have They didn't understand it. But it's

499
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: so crazy now that everyone has kids, nobody questions it, like, yeah,

500
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: if you're if you're not on board, don't do it right.

501
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: It makes sense because it is so strange to me

502
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: that people get a little weirded out by it and

503
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: then they failed the need to start grilling and thinking

504
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: it's something that happened in their path, you know, all

505
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: of those things. Um. Yeah, And then so I have

506
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: to ask on the grilling topic, what what would you

507
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: do if your husband all of a sudden changed his

508
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: mind or you changed your mind? Um? I mean obviously

509
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: we would have it. We're like best friends and we

510
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: would have a discussion about it. I wouldn't know exactly

511
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: what would happen, but yeah, something obviously we would talk

512
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: about and be open about because it is a really

513
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: big topic and a really big responsibility that you used

514
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: to think of everything around it. It's not just you

515
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 1: have a kid and that's it. It's I just feel

516
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: like everyone gets it. Seems like everyone. It's a tool

517
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 1: on everyone because everyone's so tired, everyone's working. You have

518
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: to make a certain amount of money now to take

519
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: care of your family. So I would always have a

520
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: conversation with him about it. I know, I think that

521
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: you know. And there's also a whole group of people

522
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: who it's you know, are okay with having kids, but

523
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: are deathly afraid to get pregnant. And I mean so

524
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: that just adds like a whole another dynamic to it. Um.

525
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: I love hearing from you, and I hope that you

526
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 1: My asking questions is really just because that's the nature

527
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: of this podcast. We like to dig deep into all

528
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: different you know, thought processes. So I just wanted to

529
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to talk with us.

530
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: Of course, thank you so much. Bye. Okay, guys, we

531
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: are back with Maxine Trump. I just watched her movie

532
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: to Kid or Not two Kid, and I just think

533
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: it's such an important message to be to get out there.

534
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: And I thank you for joining us. It's lovely to

535
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: be here. Thanks so much for having us. Can you

536
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: explain a little bit to our listeners what led you

537
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: to make this movie? You know, it's really interesting because

538
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: only when I got to kind of the so called

539
00:29:55,600 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: end of my biological child rearing opportunity, UM, did I

540
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: really start thinking I have to make a decision about

541
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: whether or not to have kids. It's never been something

542
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: i'd really thought about. In the same way I hadn't

543
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 1: really dreamt about the big white wedding. I hadn't dreamt

544
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: about kind of a lot of my future. I just

545
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: lived day by day. I was very much that kind

546
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: of person where let's see where this day brings me,

547
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: and what's the next adventure around the corner. And then

548
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: I was realizing the more that people were asking me

549
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: about my decision whether or not to have kids, I

550
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: had to make a decision, and it started getting me

551
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: kind of angry that I couldn't delay it like a

552
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: lot of men, can, you know. Um. And then I

553
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: was starting to look around and and try and look

554
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: for things that could help me with this decision. And

555
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: there was one shorter film out there, but and a

556
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: few books, but This was back in and it really

557
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: hadn't become the hot topic that it is now about

558
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: deciding whether or not to have children. So I did

559
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: what I do best, I guess, and picked up my

560
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: camera and I didn't enter into making a personal film.

561
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: I was just going to explore this subject. And then

562
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm part of this great filmmaking community in New York

563
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: and I started showing test scenes to these groups and

564
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: they were like, you're you're holding back, You're not being clear,

565
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: and so that kind of turned the whole film around,

566
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: and you started really leaning into it and talking about

567
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: your fears and also the kind of the judgments that

568
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: put on you. And a lot of what we saw

569
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: in the film was kind of pressure from your mom almost,

570
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: which I know is probably hard to talk about. But

571
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: do you think that kind of started from a young

572
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: a young age, or you know, do you think that's

573
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: just something that happened once you started saying, you know, no,

574
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: it's not something we want to do. You know, it's

575
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 1: so interesting because my mom was pretty cool about it

576
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: at the beginning, you know, years ago, when obviously I

577
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: was at a different age. She said to me, you know,

578
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: don't look at having kids through rose tinted spectacles. You know,

579
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: she brought up three kids, she was a single mom

580
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: for a chunk of time, and I was like, oh,

581
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being like super honest with me.

582
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: And then it kind of started shifting as I got

583
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: when she realized you were serious. I think so right,

584
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: um or or at least, I mean, we just didn't

585
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: talk about it very often because I just wasn't bringing

586
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: it up because I didn't need to write until I

587
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: needed to or until people are asking me more. And

588
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: she wanted to ask me more about my decisions. So

589
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,719
Speaker 1: it kind of shifted, and I think that does happen

590
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. You know, you get to

591
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: an age where you know you're either maybe maybe in

592
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: a committed relationship or you may be single and deciding

593
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: what's your decision? And um, if you are single, are

594
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: you going to then you know when is the best

595
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: time or who do you go? And you know, Dore dregs,

596
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: you do this not something you want to do. And

597
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: I think that's so often confused, is do you not

598
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: want to have kids? Or because of circumstances are you

599
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: not having kids? And I think that our nature is

600
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: to be inquisitive on that and not realizing what we're

601
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,959
Speaker 1: putting on to the people that are deciding that they

602
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: don't want to have kids. You know. And I love

603
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: your story too because I know you've had a journey

604
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: as well, and I think, um, for my what I

605
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: call my child less sisters and brothers, because it happens

606
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: to men to you know, Um, it's really on my

607
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: heart for them in a big way because if they're

608
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: constantly getting asked, that's even worse than me getting constantly asked.

609
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: You know, I was told from a young age it

610
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: would be hard to have kids, but the door hadn't

611
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 1: completely closed for me. But for people that are on

612
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: that journey, I think it's really really difficult if they're

613
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: asked all the time because where are they on that

614
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: spectrum they could be at any point, you know. Um.

615
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: So I was really delighted actually because PBS commissioned me

616
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: to do this spinoff series. She's kind of amazing. I

617
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: didn't really congratulations you so much because PBS as well

618
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: aren't always notorious for being the most groundbreaking that works, right, Um,

619
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: but we have this amazing spinoff series which has allowed

620
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: me to explore the whole. Like I said, the spectrum

621
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: of fertility or infertility or decision making. And we have

622
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: these amazing episodes. We have one woman who's in her

623
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: fifties trying to decide when she stops doing IVF and

624
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: she's debating with a young woman who was a team

625
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: mum and that it was an amazing episode. And we

626
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: have a number of episodes where people, you know, we

627
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,839
Speaker 1: had a gay couple talking to young gay guy about saragaceine.

628
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: And it's been really fascinating. I've learned actually a hell

629
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: of a lot over the six years of making it,

630
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: as you can imagine. So that was really exciting because

631
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: you know, fundamentally the film, I didn't want it to

632
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: be my own story, and we definitely explore other people's

633
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: situations for sure. Like Megan. I mean, this is one

634
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: that definitely, like just to kind of give the listeners backstory,

635
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 1: Megan is struggling to get medical permission to undergo elective sterilization. Yeah,

636
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: and she is twenty five, right, and she's gone to

637
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: like four different doctors fifth now, And I mean, the

638
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: my question is in regard to this, what if she

639
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: changed her mind? What if a doctor did agree to

640
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: it and then she did change her mind. Is it

641
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: the same as a vasectomy that you can have it reversed?

642
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 1: You know, that's a question that a lot of young

643
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: people when they are feeling certain about their decision, that

644
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: they get asked, and they really appreciate um people that

645
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: have gone before them that have shown that they haven't

646
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 1: changed their mind. We've had, we have a lovely few

647
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: characters in the film. One woman who's you know, in

648
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: her older six, in her sixties now, and she actually

649
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: lost her job when she came out about not having kids.

650
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: And Megan looks at her and looks at me and

651
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: looks at Laurel Carol. That's also in the film. People

652
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: have gone before that proved that their minds aren't changed.

653
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: But I did actually ask her because I did feel

654
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 1: that that could have been one of the reasons doctors

655
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: were using. And she said, listen, I'll go to therapy

656
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: for as long as they want me to go to therapy.

657
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: She's now five appointments later, she's almost five years later.

658
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: Her husband. She was asked to bring in her husband

659
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: to make sure her husband with sterilization. With her being sterilized,

660
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, she's in charge of her own body,

661
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: and she's not being taken seriously and that breaks my

662
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: heart right and now that that was the one that

663
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, you know, it's unbelievable. And then

664
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of bringing it back to your story, Josh, your

665
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: husband is in the studio with us, and I think

666
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: what I got? Do you have you have kids already? Yes?

667
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: With with with an X yes. So do you think

668
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: that your conversations about you not wanting to have kids

669
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: may have gone differently had you not? Yeah? I think

670
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: that's a great question. And I think also because having kids,

671
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: not having kids is such a huge thing, it's sort

672
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: of impossible to say, oh, you know, yeah, if I

673
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: didn't have kids, I would have thought X, y Z.

674
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, you're sort of helpless, but

675
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: to come from the perspective where you are in life.

676
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 1: So I feel like it probably would have been a

677
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: different conversation, you know, if I hadn't had kids. But

678
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I kind of empowerless to know how different or you know,

679
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: how it would have gone differently because a lot of

680
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: the people that had written in were saying that there,

681
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, and relationships where it's getting to the point

682
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: where they're significant, other might propose or to the getting

683
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: that point and they're scared to have that conversation or

684
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: they've casually mentioned it and it's kind of brushed over.

685
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: So it's like, how how do you really start to

686
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: set that expectation so that you're not ten years, fifteen

687
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: years into marriage and then all of a sudden, like

688
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: you have to separate because you can't agree on this topic.

689
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: Watch the film, honestly, I mean right, I mean that's

690
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: really why I made the film, because I want this space,

691
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: this kind of space for people where a the ice

692
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: has now been broken because they've watched the film is

693
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 1: a very very vulnerable kind of for me, cringe, cringe

694
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 1: some of the scenes that have intimates it is now.

695
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: But it's amazing that you're able to share yourself, you know,

696
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 1: share your journey. But I think that there's so many

697
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: people out there that are questioning themselves and then almost

698
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: putting that that pressure from other people onto themselves or

699
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: really feeling that pressure, you know, I've had in some ways.

700
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: I've got to weigh lightly that it's only been a

701
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: few people in my life. At one screening in Ohio,

702
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: when we were so excited, we did three screenings in

703
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: Ohio where they're trying to institute you know, these crazy

704
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: abortion laws. And one young woman came up with her

705
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: husband in floods of tears after a screening and said,

706
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: I came here and I couldn't tell anyone I was

707
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: coming to the screening, not one person. And I'm still

708
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: getting chills when I think about it now, because I

709
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,399
Speaker 1: sort of feel like if if I've just made this

710
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 1: film just for her, then I started film my works

711
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: then I know, because the biggest thing is, you know,

712
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: that we want is to not feel alone absolutely, and

713
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: when we start feeling you know, ostracized in any way

714
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 1: or that we're alone or that people don't understand, then

715
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: we start putting our guards up and we're not living

716
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: the life that we want to live anyway. Um. But

717
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: another topic that's come up a bunch, especially in the

718
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,440
Speaker 1: younger generation that I've spoken to, is actually the fear

719
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: of getting pregnant is why they don't want to have

720
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: kids versus not actually wanting kids. Yeah. Yeah, And I

721
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: love that you're bringing this up right now. And I know,

722
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's such a crazy topic for me,

723
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: but I like have to listen to my listeners because

724
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: I did it a big thing on infertility, and people,

725
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, really reached out afterwards and said, we want

726
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: to hear the other side of it, Like we want

727
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: to hear the other side because there, you know, we

728
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: are out there getting questions constantly, and you know, I

729
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 1: have said some things in the past that like I

730
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 1: didn't realize that my phrasing could be hurtful to other people,

731
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: you know, just speaking from my own personal I remember

732
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: being at a place where like I was trying so

733
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: hard to get pregnant that I put so much pressure

734
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 1: on myself for and no one else was putting pressure

735
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: on me, but I felt all this pressure like this

736
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: is my job. And I said that, and people were furious,

737
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: like how could you say this, you know, like what

738
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: is wrong with you? You know, And really it was

739
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: just my own like it's so personal and what your

740
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: goal going through when it happens, you don't know until

741
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: you're actually there. And that wasn't to judge anybody else.

742
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: That was solely how I felt in that moment. And

743
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, but I have a girlfriend that's like, listen,

744
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: I want to have kids, um, but I am scared

745
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: one to carry a baby. And I'm scared too that

746
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: I'm never going to meet somebody, you know, So it

747
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: goes so many different levels that and then she goes,

748
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: you know, I'm scared, and because of that, I don't

749
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: think I'm meeting people because I'm so scared all the

750
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: time that they're not going to be the one, and

751
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: then I'm not gonna be able to have kids. So

752
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: there's so many different levels to this, so many I

753
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: think finding the language to talk about it, and I

754
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: made mistakes too, I think a lot of people do,

755
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: because I think for many years we didn't really know

756
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: how to talk about not having kids or having kids

757
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: or how we were having kids. And I think as

758
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: we're seeing a rise in articles and podcasts, and you know,

759
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: it's it's great because it's it's given us this opportunity

760
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: to say, hey, did you did you hear that the

761
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: other day? Or well let's talk about like oh, let

762
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: me just play this clip from Teddy Show. You know. Um,

763
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: it allows us really to be much more open about it.

764
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: And I even felt like my shoulders go back a

765
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: little bit more when I bring this subject up instead

766
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,279
Speaker 1: of kind of carrying in a corner. And you know, um,

767
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: so it's exciting. Actually, I think it's another way of

768
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: empowering women. Yeah, I think I think versus where we

769
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: want to clam up and not say anything, even if

770
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: we just share, as opposed to getting frustrated or angry

771
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: when somebody asked, because sometimes somebody's just asking, you know,

772
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: one of the specials earlier. Sometimes somebody's not asking because

773
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: they're judging. They're just meeting you and they're trying to

774
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: fill the conversation, so like they don't know what else

775
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 1: to say, so like, so do you have kids? Oh?

776
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: Why not? You know, there's just an open space and

777
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: she goes. So you just can alter the conversation however

778
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: you want. No, I don't, but you know what I

779
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: love reading or Bob going skiing or what. You know,

780
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: you just move the conversation along, or you you kind

781
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: of dig into it if you're closer with that person

782
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: and you want to actually have a deeper discussion about it.

783
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: Because I do also think that in your head, you

784
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: start to think, wow, if and I talked about this

785
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: with an earlier guess too is if they don't want kids,

786
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,760
Speaker 1: maybe they don't like kids and putting that on somebody

787
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: and and maybe they don't or maybe they do, maybe

788
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 1: they love them. Yeah, but it's not ours to make

789
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: that decision totally, and and not to make people feel abnormal,

790
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: Like I think what you've just said, like, okay, that

791
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: maybe the icebreaker, maybe like asking what the weather is

792
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: going to be right today, and you're asking somebody if

793
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: they have kids. But then don't go to that next

794
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 1: level of either walking away climbing up the conversation, because

795
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: there's been so many people that have been hurt by

796
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 1: then the next question like, well, why have you decided

797
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,319
Speaker 1: to you know that's that's strange or that's odd, or

798
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, why do you not like kids? Or do

799
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: you know? It's like the follow up question that can

800
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: be really helpful. So I agree with you. I don't

801
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: I don't mind if somebody says do you have kids

802
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: or not? And I say, oh no, And as long

803
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: as they leave it there, but it's asked me something else.

804
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: Don't make me feel weird because I'm not weird because

805
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: there's us is that? Is that the number? Okay? So

806
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: good to know. Um gosh, well, I I do have

807
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: to tell you, guys, you've got to watch this movie,

808
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: especially if you're in a place where you just want

809
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: to be understood. There's so many different amazing women and

810
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: men in the movie who um are just being open

811
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: and honest about their journey. And truthfully, I think, regardless

812
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: if you want kids, don't want kids, can't have kids,

813
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: change your mind about kids, whatever it is you are,

814
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 1: you're not alone, and you know what it's whatever ends

815
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: up happening, and whatever you want, it's okay, and you

816
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: know what, the people that love you will understand and

817
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: you might benefit from the different decision making like I'm

818
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: sure you have. I mean, my sister has three kids

819
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: and benefits from the fact I didn't have kids, like

820
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,960
Speaker 1: and yeah, mutually symbiotic relations and if you can start

821
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,400
Speaker 1: to also at certain points not take everything so seriously

822
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: so you can't start to, like, you know, laugh and

823
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: have fun and enjoy the circumstances a little bit. I remember,

824
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: even when it came to my infertility stuff, I took

825
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: everything so personal that I alienated myself from my friends

826
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: and family because I didn't want them to know how

827
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: much I was struggling, and then that just made me

828
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: feel more alone. And I think the same can go

829
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: for if you're so worried about people asking you the

830
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: question about if you want kids or not, that then

831
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: you shut out the people in your life instead of

832
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: having the conversation, and then they don't know what to do,

833
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 1: and then they asked the uncomfortable questions because they're kind

834
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: of backed into a corner. Yeah, but I'm made please

835
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: you brought that up about your own journey and sort

836
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,240
Speaker 1: of alienating because I think we have to be careful

837
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 1: about the words we use as well, Like I will

838
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: never there's you know, there can be terms that I

839
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: think are unhelpful um on the people when people decide

840
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 1: not to have kids as well because they've been so hurt.

841
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 1: You know, there's terms like reader and things like which

842
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: I all mumbies and I do not sign up to

843
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: that in any way. And I think what we've really

844
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: tried to do in the film is really be inclusive,

845
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 1: as inclusive as possible. And you bring up humor. There's

846
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: definitely moments in the film for sure, right because like

847
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,760
Speaker 1: you say, like let's let's release some of this tension

848
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: because all that heaviness, like what is it gonna do?

849
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: You're gonna explode and you're probably gonna explode on the

850
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: wrong person about the wrong thing. Um, But I you know,

851
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: I want the listen. I encourage the listeners to watch

852
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 1: the movie, but also keep asking us these questions, keep

853
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: keep putting it out there, because the more that we

854
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Speaker 1: all talk about it, the more that we're all educating

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Speaker 1: ourselves on the way to talk about it so that

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Speaker 1: we're not hurting the people in our lives, we're supporting them.

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Speaker 1: So um, thanks you guys so much for coming in.

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. Thanks, thank you guys so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in to another week of Teddy Tea pod.

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Speaker 1: I loved exploring the other side of this and what

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Speaker 1: great guests we had and listeners, please keep sending us

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Speaker 1: in things you want us to talk about. We love

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00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: it and we want to get some of your answers answered,

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Speaker 1: So send an email into Teddy t at I heart

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Speaker 1: radio dot com. Thanks for listening, Subscribe to tradio or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts.