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Speaker 2: What is going on my people? Hopefully everyone's doing good.

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Speaker 2: I'm John this three and Now podcast. You guys know

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Speaker 2: the drill football was played Thursday night, but we're not

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Speaker 2: gonna talk any about that, not that there's much to

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Speaker 2: take away, but and stuff is happening around the league.

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Speaker 2: I said, justin Herbert he is gonna be on the

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Speaker 2: shelf for a little while with some foot issues, and

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Speaker 2: that makes me reevaluate my charger bet, which might shift

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Speaker 2: to the bills. But today we are going to be

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Speaker 2: talking with Jake Rosenberg. He was Howie's right hand guy

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Speaker 2: negotiating contract for a decade plus, been with the Eagles

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Speaker 2: since twenty twelve or eleven. We me and him overlapped

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Speaker 2: a little bit and just left starting a company to

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Speaker 2: work with the college programs. He's working with Oklahoma in

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Speaker 2: the NIL and I just wanted to bring him on

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Speaker 2: to talk contract for dummies, just some basics of his story,

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Speaker 2: his thoughts a little on the NFL, and just just

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Speaker 2: bs about money and football because you know, understanding the

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Speaker 2: way bonuses work, dead cap, not being able to sign

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Speaker 2: guys because of it. I think he's got really interesting

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Speaker 2: perspective because he's literally been a part of writing all

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Speaker 2: these contracts starting with Shady McCoy back in twelve to

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Speaker 2: Carson Wentz, through Fletcher Cox and Kelsey and obviously Jalen

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Speaker 2: Hurt to fake one Barkley this offseason. He just left,

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Speaker 2: I think a couple of months ago. So it's yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was cool. I'm glad me and him reconnected and

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Speaker 2: asked him to come on the pod, and he said

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Speaker 2: yes and fired up to have him on. We talked

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Speaker 2: for I think about an hour, and that's gonna be

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Speaker 2: the podcast today, So no Fugazi Friday. We'll push that

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Speaker 2: back till next week and I'll probably do a big

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Speaker 2: mail bag. I'm not sure if I'm going on with Colin.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna do one on Sunday or not, but regardless,

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Speaker 2: I'll have my own podcast. Might be a heavy because

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Speaker 2: we got a bunch of mail bag questions. We'll see.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like practices. Stories are gonna stop

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Speaker 2: this weekend, so the next podcast will be Monday. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: so obviously a lot of football content. Go Low. I

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Speaker 2: guess if crazy things happen in golf may mix in

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Speaker 2: a go low or two. The Olympics a deck you

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Speaker 2: shot like eight hundred part a day. Those guys are

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Speaker 2: dominating that course. But that's thoughts for another day. Other

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Speaker 2: than that, you guys know the Drill. Subscribe to the

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Speaker 2: podcast as well as the YouTube channel. All of our

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Speaker 2: content is up there. And before we dive into football,

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Speaker 2: lowest price is guaranteed. Okay, let's dive into Jake fired up,

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Speaker 2: like I said, vice president a football administration for the

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Speaker 2: Philadelphia Eagles. Before that, dude even playing some commodities. There's

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Speaker 2: a finance bro right here. He knows his numbers and

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Speaker 2: it is now a partner in the Athlete group helping

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Speaker 2: programs like Oklahoma. I don't know if you ever heard

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Speaker 2: of them. The Sooners deal with nil in the ever

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Speaker 2: expanding dollars that are growing in that world. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: Jake parted up to have you was that buddy.

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Speaker 1: Awesome? Great to see you too, so Readunion of Sorts.

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Speaker 2: How you doing.

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Speaker 1: I'm great, everything's good. You know, I'm not in training camp.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually visiting my in laws in Michigan in August.

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Speaker 1: It's a strange new world I'm living in. But everything's great.

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Speaker 2: Just for everyone listening, you were you leaving the Eagles

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Speaker 2: was a pretty big story, but I kind of want

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Speaker 2: to rewind. Can you just give me a little background?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know it, but just for everyone listening,

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Speaker 2: what you did out of college and then what led you.

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Speaker 2: We overlapped a little bit in Philly and kind of

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Speaker 2: what you've been doing for the last decade plus with

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Speaker 2: the Jeffrey Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I went to University of Pennsylvania, two years of

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Speaker 1: management consulting. About twelve thirteen in commodities trading. I was

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Speaker 1: on the floor at the Chicago a Mercanty Exchange. I

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Speaker 1: was off the floor trading bonds electronically with a group

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Speaker 1: built that up. Did some stuff, moved back East with

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Speaker 1: my wife, my son, had my daughter. But all the

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Speaker 1: while I was sort of I was looking for a

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Speaker 1: way to pivot. I always wanted to work in sports.

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Speaker 1: I started a sports technology, a scouting app on a

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Speaker 1: Pom pilot in two thousand and three. Failed venture, but

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Speaker 1: I got to know some people in the NFL a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a taste of the whole thing, and

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Speaker 1: then rolled out of trading, took an internship with the Eagles,

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Speaker 1: had an opportunity. I commuted from North Jersey down to

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Speaker 1: Philly for about eleven months, but really fortunate timing there

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Speaker 1: I stepped into an opportunity primarily overseeing cap contract stuff negotiations,

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Speaker 1: and then Howie and I worked really really closely up

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Speaker 1: until May fifteenth, and so I oversaw the financial side primarily.

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Speaker 1: But you know, there's not a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: the NFL front office, and having been there as long

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Speaker 1: as I had and had how He's trust in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: I was involved in pretty much everything, you know, all

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Speaker 1: the strategic decisions we made, a lot of the hiring

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Speaker 1: and coaching searches and stuff like that. I got experience

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Speaker 1: broadly entire roster staffing, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: I want to speak really quick because I get asked

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Speaker 2: a lot about younger people that have questions about their

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Speaker 2: future or or deciding whether to leave. You know, follow

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Speaker 2: their passion, take a step back. I obviously there was

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Speaker 2: a pivot point in your life. I would imagine you

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Speaker 2: had done pretty well on definitely on some given years

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Speaker 2: with the commodities. So to take an internship to follow passion?

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Speaker 2: How you were over thirty at the time. I Itomatical

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Speaker 2: five five.

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Speaker 1: With a comedy about me starting an internship, kissing my

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Speaker 1: wife and two children, dirt and goodbye.

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Speaker 2: I mean that that was a pretty big financial state.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember what that internship paid?

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Speaker 1: I honestly have no idea, but fifty.

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Speaker 2: K or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know. I don't even think I was

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Speaker 1: making fifty k's an intern But it wasn't. It didn't

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Speaker 1: last super long. And in full disclosure, typically when people

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Speaker 1: are like crushing it in trading, they don't necessarily look

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Speaker 1: for to, you know, to make career pivots. My career

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Speaker 1: in trading unbelievable market timing. When I first started trading,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the electronic markets were just starting to

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Speaker 1: come into their own. There was a lot of low

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Speaker 1: hanging fruit. It was it was easy. I mean, for

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Speaker 1: it wasn't. People didn't have these these super advanced strategies,

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Speaker 1: weren't throwing a whole lot of technology at it. So

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Speaker 1: I did really well, very quickly. I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun, enjoyed that life. It was. It was very

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Speaker 1: loose and lax, and I was making money and it

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Speaker 1: was great. But then as I got older, as the

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Speaker 1: business got more competitive, a lot of capital thrown at it,

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Speaker 1: a lot of technology. The Chicago trading scene was built

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Speaker 1: on a lot of locals who had spent time in

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Speaker 1: the pits where there's no technology. You know, that's more

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Speaker 1: just like playing a sport and reacting, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know a lot of us. I had a ton of

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Speaker 1: friends that traded and a lot of people in the

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Speaker 1: same situation. Whereas the business evolved, we were kind of

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Speaker 1: stuck in what we knew and just sitting there playing

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Speaker 1: a sport and people are like, you know, we're having

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Speaker 1: We're fighting each other with like plastic forks, and people

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Speaker 1: are taking out machine guns. It's you know, So that

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Speaker 1: all happened in trading. I loved the competitive side and

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Speaker 1: how objective it was. And there was no saying, hey, boss,

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Speaker 1: I did a great job. I'd have a boss, but

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Speaker 1: you could weren't saying you did a no job. It's

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Speaker 1: literally I made money. I didn't make money. How much

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Speaker 1: money did I make? That's the scorecard. And you really

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Speaker 1: couldn't couldn't fight it, which is awesome, that's pure. That's

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Speaker 1: very few businesses I think like that. And so that

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Speaker 1: got harder and harder. I started picking up people and

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Speaker 1: things in my life, and I never felt stress trading,

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Speaker 1: knowing I never made a salary in the thirteen odd

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Speaker 1: years I traded. It was all what you kill. And

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Speaker 1: then it just got tougher over time, and it was

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Speaker 1: less like playing a sport and more like drudgery of

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Speaker 1: oh shit, I just put in six months and I

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Speaker 1: and worse than where I started. But so that it

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Speaker 1: didn't make the decision for itself necessarily. But I was

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Speaker 1: thinking at that point, like I need to figure out

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Speaker 1: what's next. And sports always has always been my number

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Speaker 1: one passion in life, but I'll question. And so I

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Speaker 1: was trading in New York, living in North Jersey, and

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Speaker 1: there was a situation where the group I was trading with,

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Speaker 1: our trading capital was being held at a clearinghouse that's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be your money is just parked there. It's

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Speaker 1: not at risk necessarily, And there was some kind of

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Speaker 1: issue where that all of a sudden was held and

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Speaker 1: we couldn't use it and just sitting there not sure

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Speaker 1: if we were going to get our trading capital back,

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Speaker 1: and that was a breaking point. I was just like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I think this is a sign there's

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Speaker 1: just too much going on. I need to figure out

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Speaker 1: what to do with myself. And times I'd had conversations

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Speaker 1: about whether I would be interested in doing some type

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Speaker 1: of capital or you know, and taking this step. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't something I could see doing when I was in

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Speaker 1: Chicago or when I was crushing it and I had

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Speaker 1: tons of time, you know, and ability to kind of

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Speaker 1: control my life. But then it was like, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: this makes sense. This is something that I really want

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Speaker 1: to do. My wife was very consistent in saying, this

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Speaker 1: is a chance for you to do exactly what you

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Speaker 1: want to do. Don't sweat what's going to happen here, because,

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Speaker 1: as you know, this is a very difficult profession for

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Speaker 1: lives and families in the sense that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of time. And my wife and I started dating and everything.

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Speaker 1: While I had a very easy schedule with a great life,

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Speaker 1: we spent lots of time together and then it pivoted

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Speaker 1: to where I was at work a lot. And for

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Speaker 1: the beginning, when I was commuting leave, you know, hour

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Speaker 1: and a half each way, it was like eighty three

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Speaker 1: miles each way. So I'd be at my desk by

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Speaker 1: seven am or so, leave the house of five thirty

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Speaker 1: and then get home. I left the office at seven

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Speaker 1: thirty or on a week night. I'm not really seeing

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Speaker 1: my kids during the week, so it was it wasn't awesome,

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Speaker 1: but it was a means to end. It was like,

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Speaker 1: already something everyone else most people do in life, do

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Speaker 1: what you gotta do.

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Speaker 2: Well, I wanted to do something with you called contract

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Speaker 2: for dummies. And you know, millions of people watch the

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Speaker 2: NFL and they have no just no one comprehends these contracts.

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Speaker 2: But you get out, you start working for Howie and

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Speaker 2: then within a couple of years Andy's gone, Chip comes

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Speaker 2: in and within a couple of years when when how

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Speaker 2: he went on a sabbatical because you were working very quick,

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Speaker 2: did that change your role that all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: become sabbatical?

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Speaker 1: Happen sabbatical?

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Speaker 2: I think that's what how we called it.

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Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, I say, we were in exile. It's fine.

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Speaker 2: Did you get exiled as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had a view of the dumpster over

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Speaker 1: on Pattison. It was great. Yeah, I got I got

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Speaker 1: exiled as well. I did a lot of the traveling

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Speaker 1: around with Howie, hitting up our networks and talking to

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Speaker 1: teams and doing all kinds of stuff. When we were thinking,

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's going to happen in Philly, but

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Speaker 1: if it happens here or wherever it happens, where we

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Speaker 1: get a chance to come back and run a team,

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Speaker 1: let's make sure we're doing it in the smartest, best

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Speaker 1: way possible and not just the way it's always been

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Speaker 1: done or the way we've seen here. So we talked

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Speaker 1: to baseball teams, basketball teams, hockey teams, successful business people,

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Speaker 1: and just got best practice on a million different things.

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Speaker 1: So whenever we were taken out of the tower, out

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Speaker 1: of exile, we were going to be ready to go.

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Speaker 2: And who's your who's your fra, who's your favorite? Conversation

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Speaker 2: of that kind of little run.

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Speaker 1: We had a lot of great conversations. I remember going down,

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Speaker 1: we visited with the Braves, We talked to every we.

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Speaker 2: I mean, did you go San Antonio RCPUF.

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Speaker 1: How we became how we how we became close with

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Speaker 1: r C YEP through that process. Uh No, we weren't

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Speaker 1: in that type of that type of uh spheres. Uh No,

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Speaker 1: sports wise, I mean at the time we went to Chicago,

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Speaker 1: met with the Blackhawks, the Braves. I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: there was, there was, there was a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 1: We went to New York, we had up, you know,

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Speaker 1: some successful business people that we knew. Yeah, it was,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a really interesting process. And then

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Speaker 1: I think, actually it sort of still shapes the way

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Speaker 1: I think and a lot of the lot of what's

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Speaker 1: gone on in Philly since how he came back in

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. As a direct result of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked to baseball teams and talked about player development

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Speaker 1: and things that in the NFL are you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a there's a thing where people sometimes will just throw

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Speaker 1: their hands up to be like, ah, we can't do

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Speaker 1: that because of like these five things. You know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm actually seeing this in college right now, which I

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Speaker 1: know we'll talk about later, but everything's just in total caos.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a mess. We're screwed. You know, basically,

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Speaker 1: put your head between your knees, zoom, crass position and

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Speaker 1: player development in the NFL because of the rules and

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Speaker 1: because of how players time is so carefully regulated, how

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Speaker 1: long they could be in the building for that period

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Speaker 1: of time eight or nine weeks in the off season,

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Speaker 1: dead period between the end of the season and the

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Speaker 1: start of your off season, and then dead period from

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Speaker 1: the day your off season program ends until you report

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Speaker 1: for training camp. People just think that you can't thoughtfully

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Speaker 1: develop the back end of your roster. I think that's

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Speaker 1: just prevailing notion because you don't have enough time. It's

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Speaker 1: a physical sport, so you can't put extra physical demands

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Speaker 1: on them. And then during the season, time is short,

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Speaker 1: particularly on the coaching side, so it's rare. You're not

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Speaker 1: really going to ask your coaches to spend extra time

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Speaker 1: to help develop players because they're heavily engaged in game

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Speaker 1: planning and getting starters and key players ready. So I

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Speaker 1: think that's the norm. And then when how he came

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Speaker 1: back after a lot of things that we had seen.

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Speaker 1: We'd seen baseball teams who are signing kids at like

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Speaker 1: sixteen years old who didn't even speak English, and they

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Speaker 1: had seven years or six years to get them to

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Speaker 1: the big leagues and function in American you know, in

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Speaker 1: American city they were going to live in. That's incredible

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Speaker 1: amount of development, right you're teaching the language and customs

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Speaker 1: and also trying to make them freaking good, good players.

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Speaker 1: So that wasn't going to be what we did. But

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Speaker 1: full time development people a legitimate formal program. You know,

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Speaker 1: this is something as I ran like the undrafted free

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Speaker 1: agent signing period for us for a long time, and

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to get kids who were dejected that

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Speaker 1: they weren't drafted right and you don't have a lot

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Speaker 1: of money to spend, these are the things that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to sell them on, like, look, we don't just

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Speaker 1: sit here during the season and have our practice squad

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Speaker 1: read cards and you know, draw a big line in

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Speaker 1: the sand, like we'll see you next July. We'll try

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Speaker 1: to develop you. Then they have extra periods and there's

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things where we're still trying to improve you,

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Speaker 1: and the coaches are on it. It's everyone is pulling

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Speaker 1: in that direction, and I think those are those are

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Speaker 1: legitimate takeaways from having a process like that.

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Speaker 2: You know, before we dive into contracts, you've got you

338
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Speaker 2: went on record to all the Philly people, because I

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Speaker 2: think it's covered like an S football team or something

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Speaker 2: of Eagles, that one of your reasons to leave. It's

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Speaker 2: not like you got fired or anything. I mean, how

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to lose you. Was that your aspirations

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Speaker 2: you want to be a general manager in the NFL?

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Speaker 1: Correct that fairsday, I would say that that has been

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Speaker 1: my aspiration for sure, to do this, to do what

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Speaker 1: I did for every year and learn the kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that I did. Get that level of experience. It's

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Speaker 1: like stout sets. So it's like bars of gold every day,

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Speaker 1: you know, you learn all this stuff. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had ideas. I worked within a very specific system

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Speaker 1: in terms of working for Howie and how all that went.

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Speaker 1: But I felt like I acquired the breath of knowledge

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Speaker 1: and skills and I have the personal trait to lead

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Speaker 1: an organization. I felt like I got the most incredible

355
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Speaker 1: education in running a team. Even if you don't you

356
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Speaker 1: know how he makes all the decisions, there's no question

357
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Speaker 1: about that. But I see people get hired in the

358
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Speaker 1: NFL who have neither made decisions nor have they actually

359
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Speaker 1: seen it executed in terms of team building, organization building,

360
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Speaker 1: everything that goes into it. It's not just about picking players,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's there's so much that

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Speaker 1: goes into having a continually successful organization. There aren't coincidences.

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Speaker 1: There might be a one year like Lightning and a

364
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: bottle type of thing, but you don't have the consistent

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Speaker 1: success that the Eagles have had by coincidence. Right, So

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Speaker 1: I've seen how all these parts contribute to the whole,

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Speaker 1: and I've seen the way you can find edges in

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Speaker 1: every single department. Right. This isn't just about scouting better

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Speaker 1: and coaching harder like that's I think some people think that,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes the people who think that the most tend

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Speaker 1: to be the decision makers, it seems that are making

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Speaker 1: these hires. But yeah, I felt like I could run

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Speaker 1: an organization. I would run it differently than how my

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Speaker 1: skill sets different everyone's is. I would run it differently

375
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Speaker 1: than most of the scouts who get hired. I would

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Speaker 1: need to hire someone to oversee personnel. That wasn't necessarily

377
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Speaker 1: going to be me. I wasn't going to be the

378
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Speaker 1: head evaluator. But I didn't really see that as a challenge.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you look at Fortune five hundred companies. You

380
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Speaker 1: know they're pulling CEOs who are who have strategic vision

381
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Speaker 1: and can execute on that and build an organization. It's

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Speaker 1: not about one like tactical skill, and for me, I

383
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 1: feel like that skill in the NFL is overvalued.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even think you need to go to

385
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Speaker 2: the business world. Look at baseball and basketball. Correct, you

386
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Speaker 2: were in your position, with the success you had, you

387
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,399
Speaker 2: would one be a GM in basketball or baseball, or

388
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Speaker 2: at least have had. You know, maybe it screwed up

389
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: the interviews or whatever, but you'd be interviewing in football.

390
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Speaker 2: I mean, you're closer to it than me, given that

391
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Speaker 2: you've just been inside for the last twelve years. Is

392
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Speaker 2: it safe to say that there's still stigma with someone

393
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Speaker 2: like you to be hired to run the personnel spot.

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Speaker 1: I think. I think it's not talked about change. It's

395
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Speaker 1: not talked about as much. I think, you know, even

396
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Speaker 1: in Philly, you know Howie like was given a very

397
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Speaker 1: hard time for a very long time for a lot

398
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Speaker 1: of reasons that were you know, beyond you know, there

399
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Speaker 1: was a background.

400
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Speaker 2: By the time I by the time I got there,

401
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 2: he was the boss and it was last I think

402
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 2: than probably years previously. Yeah, you know, he was a.

403
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Speaker 1: Roll with R and I think, like the his track

404
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: record at this point is irrefutable, so he has risen above.

405
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,479
Speaker 1: You can't really say a lot of those things, but

406
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: the football guy non football guy, or what it's supposed

407
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: to look like, or what someone's background is supposed to

408
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,239
Speaker 1: be to run a football team still feels like that

409
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 1: hasn't changed as much in the NFL as it has

410
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: in other sports. I think that I have thought that

411
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: their owners or different profile of owners who have come

412
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Speaker 1: into the league where they would transcend, like break out

413
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Speaker 1: of this trend. And I think there's there are advantages

414
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: to be gained by doing things a little differently, like

415
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: we see that all the time, but it really hasn't

416
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 1: happened in the league. So I had no intention of

417
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: coming out publicly in the way that it did that

418
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 1: I was leaving. You know, there was a I had

419
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: started telling some agents and people in the league that

420
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Speaker 1: I was leaving May fifteenth. One of our beat writers

421
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: had heard it, and it wasn't I wasn't telling people, Hey,

422
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: you know, don't say anything. And so he grabbed Howie

423
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Speaker 1: and said, hey, I know Jake's leaving, and I'm and to

424
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: write an article about it, and then it was, well,

425
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Speaker 1: you know, I'll talk to them because I want to

426
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: make sure train the right way. This isn't a negative situation.

427
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Speaker 1: No one's telling me to leave. I'm one of the

428
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: few people who I you know. I just basically stood

429
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: up and walked myself out of the office. I left

430
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: in great terms. I talked to people you know in

431
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: there every single day. I hope. I think players, staff,

432
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: coaches will be my lifelong friends. I just stayed in

433
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 1: my family, and I stayed with a coach for two

434
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: days at the shore a couple of weeks ago. But yeah,

435
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: I aspired to be a general manager. Do I think

436
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 1: that that's going to happen. No, I don't think that

437
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. My intent in that article was

438
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: to try to balance the this is the general framing

439
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: of what's going on. I didn't want to close any doors.

440
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: I didn't want to say I am leaving this place

441
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: af the NFL. I'd never felt that way, and you

442
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: never know what's around the corner, So I didn't want

443
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: to close the door. But I can't say my phones

444
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: were ringing off the hook at all, which is interesting

445
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,199
Speaker 1: to me. But it means. Honestly, it means that I

446
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: read everything correctly.

447
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: Which is crazy because you guys, you know, I'm a

448
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: West Coast guy. Niners get crushed for doing these contracts late,

449
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 2: and you guys get all the credit for doing them early.

450
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 2: So it's like you guys had a point of difference.

451
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 2: Did it get so much credit for with the financial

452
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 2: ability to construct your team? Obviously you're Howie's right hand

453
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: guy for the were you did? No one even call

454
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 2: and be like, hey, we want you to run our

455
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: cap after you were leaving. None even consults or like

456
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: a like a mic vrable situation like that's I got one,

457
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: I have won one. Were you a little surprised by that?

458
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: Had you interviewed before for a jam job?

459
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: Now?

460
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 2: Had you ever done a formal interview?

461
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: No? I in for a job in Washington the day

462
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: before my contract ended in Philly. That came up very suddenly.

463
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: Didn't know. Adam had no expectations of that happening. I

464
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: went and I did interview because I felt like for me,

465
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't that I was leaving in a like I said, like,

466
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: not screw this place, I'm over. I just felt like

467
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: I had done this job for a long time, and

468
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: I knew what the landscape was internally, you know, and

469
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: so I wasn't necessarily moving up internally. I'd hired Bryce

470
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: Johnston two thousand and sixteen. He was doing a great job,

471
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: and he loves doing a lot of the stuff that

472
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't love doing by any means, and he's great

473
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: at it, like fucking mad scientists, you know, contract guy.

474
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: So that for the good of the team, I mean,

475
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: you're giving stuff like that up, you're helping develop people.

476
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: But I knew I wasn't going to pick up and

477
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: learn different areas necessarily Philly, and for better or worse,

478
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: I was never Yeah, in the NFL. There's a balance

479
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: between putting yourself out there and like, you know, versus

480
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: being the guy who is a self promoter or always

481
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: kind of looking for the next job before he's even

482
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: settled into his current job. I think that that's a balance.

483
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: The stability in terms of being in one place from

484
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: a whole career was awesome. My kids have been in

485
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: the same schools, you know, their entire public school life

486
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: or their entire you know, grade school life. But is

487
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: there at some point I think having I work so

488
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: closely together we did so much of this together agents.

489
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: I think most people just assumed I would either never

490
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: leave or want to leave, and so I just was

491
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: a little bit of the part of the furniture. And

492
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: when I did tell people I was leaving, I still

493
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people thought I was really

494
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: going to do it, like I was some type of

495
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: like bluffing or negotiation strategy. But no, I did it crazy.

496
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: I've known Adam even before I got Philly. He's a

497
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: good example of a guy that you know in a

498
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: league full of self promoters. Is not really his style,

499
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: but it's not really his it yeah, right, because it's

500
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: such a public job and the money is so much

501
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: greater with every step you take, whether you be an

502
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: assistant coach will coordinate the head coach or be the

503
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: third in command to assistant GM. It's it's tricky, and

504
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: now the game has never been more popular. Like you said,

505
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: the moment win gets out that Jake Rosenberg's leaving, other

506
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: people don't win. But more NFL teams are being you know,

507
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: being being covered like that, and it's only it's only

508
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: going to grow, at least for the fourth.

509
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: I think that my story or at least This was

510
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: probably covered a little bit more than norm is because

511
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: it's it's odd. I was like Jerry Maguire, you know,

512
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: grabbing goldfish and running out of the office with Dorothy Boyd.

513
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, I didn't really feel that way. But I

514
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: think that was a little bit of like, wait, there's

515
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: got to be an angle here. There really was no angle.

516
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: And especially because the team, right, obviously it didn't finish great,

517
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: but there should be pretty good this year. And you've

518
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: had a.

519
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: Good n No, it's been a great run. I know

520
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: it's been great. There's never a good time like and

521
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: I kept telling myself when I leave, just like the

522
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: day after the season ends, when you feel the absolute worst,

523
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, you feel like you got punched in the nuts,

524
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: that's the best time. Just leave. That's your last stay cool.

525
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: I'm out. Once you stay. Once I stayed through free agency,

526
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: in the draft and all that stuff, then it tugs

527
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: at your heart. You feel like this is my team

528
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: now and I'm rooting for them. I hope this is

529
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: a great season, but I'm not if this gets to

530
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: where I hope it is, well, I feel a little

531
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: bit of like, man, you know, I could have stayed

532
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: through a super Bowl season or something. Sure, but you

533
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: gotta just pick a point and and make it happen.

534
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: Okay, contracts for dummies, Yeah, when when you're dealing with

535
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 2: bigger star players A J. Jalen, whoever, what is the

536
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: first thing on the team side? Where do you?

537
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: Well? I do think that that changes. That's still little

538
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: different by by team. Different teams prioritize different different things.

539
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: I think for us we prioritize cash flow in terms

540
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 1: of fewest dollars out the door fastest in the NFL.

541
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 1: There's a there's a theme here in my mind in

542
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: terms of managing cap or doing contracts that's consistent with

543
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: everyday life or uh being in the market, you know,

544
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 1: wealth advisor, et cetera. Is you need to be responsive

545
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: to what the current market situation, what your outlook is.

546
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: Right Like, you shouldn't necessarily have the same stock bond

547
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 1: allocation that you did ten years ago. Now if the

548
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: interest rates have changed and if all these other things

549
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: have changed. I'm just using an example, right, you always

550
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: should look around and say is this still the best

551
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,479
Speaker 1: way to do it? So, I think the way that

552
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: the league has gone having more options in terms of

553
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: players get traded more readily, but things are a little

554
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: bit more contentious. Maybe player empowerment is higher now, So

555
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: I think the idea.

556
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: That I think, I think you're seeing it all around

557
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: the league during training camp with these you can name

558
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 2: off the top of your head.

559
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's been increasing every year for

560
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: a while. I think NBA set the trend to some

561
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: extent in terms of players who become the foundational piece.

562
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: The entire thing is built around them, and then they

563
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: decide one day like get me out of here, and

564
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: that's that to me is like, oh my god, it's maddening.

565
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: The league players have certainly gotten a bigger voice and

566
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: have been able to sort of force their way a

567
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: little bit more. So I think it's even more important

568
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: to maintain, you know, optionality. It's like, you know, the

569
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: example would be, you know, Jordan Love, if you if

570
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: a lot of cash leaves the door in your one

571
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: and this isn't going to happen on a deal like that,

572
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: but you know, if it's a we'll pick an example,

573
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: if it's a fifty million dollar average to use a

574
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: rough number, right, and you pay eighty million dollars in

575
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: the first year, and then there's only twenty million dollars

576
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: coming to them in the second year. Players don't necessarily

577
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: have the perspective to be fair about looking backwards. They

578
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: look forwards, and so all of a sudden, it's like,

579
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: I know or you know that there's an average to

580
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: this deal, right, and there may be big cash flow

581
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: in the beginning, but then it's got to come back

582
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: to the average over time. Player just looks forward and

583
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: he's like, man, all these guys are making fifty million

584
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: dollars a year and I only have twenty million dollars

585
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: coming to me. And then you're like, yeah, that's because

586
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: you got eighty last year. They're like, no, I only

587
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: have twenty million dollars coming to me. That's crazy. I'm

588
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: not playing for that. And so I think that's one

589
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: part of it. And then secondarily, trading players has become

590
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: a much bigger part of it too. And if the

591
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: money is still in your post, meaning it's going to

592
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: be paid in a salary or a roster bonus or

593
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,439
Speaker 1: some other way, you could trade it until it's earned

594
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: or paid. And so there is an advantage to on

595
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: a fifty million dollars deal. I'm just saying having fifty

596
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: fifty fifty fifty rather than yeah, ninety and ten or whatever.

597
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: Normally it's normally it will take a little bit longer

598
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: to come back to a baseline average, But you understand

599
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: the point. I think cash flow is a big thing

600
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: and players want to cash in their hands faster for

601
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: investment reasons.

602
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jordan loves a good example because I was looking

603
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: before we hopped on. You got a seventy five million

604
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: dollars signing bonus. And typically I always thought when you

605
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 2: get a signing bonus that comes within like a ten

606
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 2: to fourteen day period, but you can run it out

607
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 2: like his. His is huge now, twenty five in October,

608
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: twenty five in December. Is that one that people argue

609
00:35:58,719 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: over a lot.

610
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's become a thing where certain teams will

611
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: defer it a year two years out. So signing bonus

612
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: really means you've earned it when you sign right. It

613
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's paid out right when you sign and

614
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 1: how soon it's paid out is absolutely negotiated. Some teams

615
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: it's just organizational policy or they'll say this is their

616
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: precedent and they will hold on to it for a while.

617
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: So you know, to use the Bobby Venia type of thing,

618
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: or Shoho tani or their deferrals. I mean you are

619
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: deferring it. So the longer a team could hold on

620
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: to the money, it's worth less in present value. But

621
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 1: that's not necessarily the intent of it. But that is

622
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: a point of negotiation, and with draft picks, particularly in

623
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: the first round, that's turned into one of the items

624
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: that is negotiated. How fast they get their signing bonus.

625
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: What about the s grow thing. That's something you dealt.

626
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: With a lot of funding.

627
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so if I guarantee Jordan Love, let's just use that.

628
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 2: There are other numbers, but that seventy five million dollars

629
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 2: signing bonus. Uh? Do I have to have the seventy

630
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 2: five million dollars signing bonus on in reserves even if

631
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: my next two payments one's in October and one's December.

632
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: How does that?

633
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: So typically they don't necessarily go all the way to

634
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: the next funding deadline, but it really is about fully

635
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: guaranteed payments in subsequent years. I really am afraid we're

636
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 1: gonna lose people here. You're gonna see people like going

637
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 1: Samurai style. There you go Samurai style like airplane peep.

638
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: So January thirty first is the funding like threshold. So

639
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: anything that's fully guaranteed as of January thirty first, what

640
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: hasn't been paid out yet is subject to funding and

641
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: then by April first, with some other little permutations, the

642
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: team basically needs to move. However much money there was

643
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: as of January thirty first that qualified into this ESCRO account. Now,

644
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: anything that becomes fully guaranteed after January thirty first is

645
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: not subject to that April first, So that's why you

646
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: see a lot of guarantees that are intended or the

647
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: spirit of it is to be fully guaranteed, but not

648
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: vest to fully guaranteed until after January thirty first. January

649
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: thirty first is before the Super Bowl, so to a

650
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: prior season, the first day of the waiver period is

651
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: really the earliest you'll see someone have a vesting date,

652
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: like the Monday after the Super Bowl as at four o'clock.

653
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: Most teams don't want to do that. That happens very

654
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 1: infrequently because it puts them in a very difficult situation.

655
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: You really can't do anything for the player there, you

656
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: have no optionality to keep using that. So very typically

657
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: first day league year, third day league year, fifth day

658
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: league year, you'll see an injury only guarantee turn into

659
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: a skill, injury and cap guarantee because if it's for

660
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: the following year, it would have to be funded following

661
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: April first.

662
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 2: If that makes sense, Yeah, let's pick the number fifty

663
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: for guarantees and then or true guarantees, and then we'll

664
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: go to one hundred for the injury guarantee. Am I

665
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 2: doing that backwards?

666
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: No, that's right. The full guarantee you'll be less.

667
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: But then explain to me, can you explain to people

668
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: what the difference is of the guaranteed and the injury guarantee.

669
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: Injury guarantee is a guarantee that so there's three buckets.

670
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: You could cut a player under a skill which means

671
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: the player from a skill perspective is not worthy of

672
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: being on my team. Injury means a player has not

673
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: kept himself physically in condition to be on my team,

674
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: and cap, which is a little bit tougher to explain,

675
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: but basically I could find the same kind of player

676
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: at a lesser price. That's more or less it. So

677
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: the most valuable guarantee is skill, injury and cap. That's

678
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: synonymous with full guarantee and that means that outside of

679
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: a few conditions, more or less an injury that's not

680
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: sustained and not sustained murder would be one. An injury,

681
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, not on a football field somewhere or in

682
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: a football building, it's very difficult to cut that player,

683
00:40:54,520 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: right you. Effectively, that's full an injury just means if

684
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: the player is healthy and you don't think he's good

685
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: enough or you think his numbers too high, you can

686
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: cut the player. You just can't cut him if he's hurt.

687
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 1: And typically those injury guarantees will convert at some point

688
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 1: to a full guarantee. So yeah, and so that winds

689
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: up being that comes to the forefront in the sense

690
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: that typically that conversion date is, like I said, it's

691
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: either in the waiver period or within the first few

692
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: days of the league year. If a player is injured

693
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: from the prior season and by that vesting date is

694
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: not healthy, you would not be able to cut him,

695
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: and that guarantee will best to full. And so the

696
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 1: behavior that that winds up triggering is when you have

697
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: a player that you're almost certain that you are not

698
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: going to want for the following season, who has a

699
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: guarantee that convert. It's dicey putting that guy on the

700
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: on the field in the prior season because a major

701
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: injury he sustains will basically mean his salary for the

702
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: following year is guaranteed or some part of it, depending.

703
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: On I think the best example because Russell was a

704
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: different example because he had so much contract left. Baby

705
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,959
Speaker 2: remember two years ago Derek Carr with the Raiders. Yeah,

706
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: the last three games, I think the number would have

707
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: been like twenty five million or thirty million. That happens

708
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: and so they got benched. The Russell thing is a

709
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: good example of when you have these huge guarantees. I

710
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 2: think one people struggle with the dead money because when

711
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: I do as signing bonus and the guaranteed, if I

712
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,799
Speaker 2: push that back on my cap, so my cap had

713
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: smaller early, bigger later if I cut that player, I e.

714
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 2: Russell Wilson, that accelerates forward. Is that correct?

715
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 1: You're you're using all the right words. I like it.

716
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: I would say, just to you know, just enough to

717
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: be dangerous is what they say. The dead money is

718
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: money that has been so you have the ability to

719
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: pro rate bonuses in the NFL, right, any money when

720
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: paid an assigning bonus. For instance, you could pro rate

721
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,440
Speaker 1: up to five years, so you divide the amount of

722
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: the bonus divided evenly amongst the first five years of

723
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: the contract, and it keeps the cap number lower than

724
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: what the actual cash out of pocket right player gets it.

725
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: All proration has nothing to do with player payment. And

726
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: then if at some point that contract gets terminated, any

727
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 1: of these pro rated amounts that are out into the

728
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: future will come back onto your cap, depending on whether

729
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: they're before June first or after, whether it's this season

730
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: or the following season. That's where you get acceleration. I

731
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: think that the term dead money is bandied about, thrown

732
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: around in press conferences. You know, there's there's like fear

733
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: factor about dead money. There are a lot of people

734
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: talk about, well, our cap wouldn't let us do this,

735
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: and you know we're in cap. Hell we're doing all

736
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 1: these things. To me, those are those are not well

737
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: thought out strategies, and you should never not if you're

738
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: not able to do what you want where your owner

739
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: is willing to commit x amount of cash in a

740
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: current season, regardless of how miserable certain things look about

741
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: your football team as far as the contracts and the structure,

742
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 1: you should be able to figure out how to spend

743
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: the cash. To me, it's a huge fail. And fans

744
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: just take that. They're just like, oh, okay, cool, we're

745
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: in CAP. Hell, we'll see in three years they will

746
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 1: be competitive then, Like I think that's crazy.

747
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: But there are some instances when you say, like let's

748
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,439
Speaker 2: use Russ wilsonith'm because he had so much contract. Those

749
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: numbers are pretty prohibited and just pretty massive. I mean,

750
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: I think, aren't they his story?

751
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: They're massive?

752
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, but it doesn't mean you can't do stuff.

753
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: It's just right.

754
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: It doesn't They technically could couldn't they technically have eaten

755
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: the whole thing this year, like eighty five millions that

756
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: split it out.

757
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: I think that correct if depending on when they did

758
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: it and how it worked. But the issue that I

759
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: think is you always have players who who have salaries

760
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: that are larger than minimum that you can restructure to

761
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: pro rate amounts, so you have a lot that you

762
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: can do. It just comes back to what is your

763
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 1: philosophy on managing CAP And I think a lot of

764
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: teams will tell you, or they don't need to tell you.

765
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: You just look at their contracts and look at what

766
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: they do, and you will see that most of what

767
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: they do is the exact same strategy that they used,

768
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,759
Speaker 1: but pick a point five years ago or ten years ago,

769
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: which is what I just sometimes my eyes glaze over about,

770
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 1: because part of this there's an art to this, like

771
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: you have to anticipate where the cap is going to

772
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: go in what the current economics are. If you're doing

773
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: something the exact same way you did under completely different circumstances,

774
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: I just think you're not doing a great job. I'll

775
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: just say that.

776
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 2: Would I think this offseason, you guys took advantage of

777
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 2: something that once what three four years ago was looked

778
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: at crazy. Then these running backs became a major discount.

779
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: I mean it'd be like a million dollar home five

780
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 2: years ago. Well it's now worth six hundred and fifty

781
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: thousand dollars. And Sakwon Barkley, you guys sign him. He

782
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 2: gets less than thirty guaranteed. But I look, his cap

783
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,799
Speaker 2: hit this year is I think less than four million dollars.

784
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 2: So when you do something like that, there has to

785
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: come a time where some of that money gets allocated

786
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: on a given year bigger but this year you could

787
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: like Jalen last year, wasn't his cap hit really really small?

788
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think this is right. These are these are

789
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: all parts of larger strategies, I would say, in terms

790
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: of just maximizing how much cash you could spend. If

791
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 1: your ownership wants to spend an excess of what the

792
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: salary cap is in a given year, if you use peration, well,

793
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 1: you should be able to do it regardless of these

794
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 1: other albatross sort of dead money things that you have.

795
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a feature, not a bug, of

796
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: the way that better teams manage cap In terms of

797
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: if you are planning and doing scenarios, you shouldn't have

798
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 1: to cut players because of a cap situation. You shouldn't

799
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 1: be hamstrung from adding players because of a cap situation.

800
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: You just don't want to that's the reality of it,

801
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: or you're not creative owner.

802
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 2: Some owners have more cash than others.

803
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: Right, But my point would be, even if you have

804
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: someone who's got fifty million dollars dead dead money on

805
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,359
Speaker 1: your cap, so you have this fifty million dollar hole,

806
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: or if you will that you can't spend on players,

807
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: just utilizing proation really well, you should still be able

808
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: to spend two hundred million dollars of cash. Yeah, So

809
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: it's just how you want to present it. It's not

810
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 1: that you can't, it's just you don't want to. It's

811
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 1: an excuse, it's not.

812
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: What about the mechanism when it comes to the salary

813
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 2: cap on trading? Guys, you were part of when Carson

814
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,439
Speaker 2: was raided and a couple of years ago when Matt

815
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: Ryan was traded and they had big Yeah, a lot

816
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 2: of money and cash paid. But is that more complicated

817
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 2: than just all out hutting a player than Russell?

818
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: Is? Actually no, not complicated. You The benefit of trading

819
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: is they take these cash flows, or they take if

820
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: there's guaranteed money, they're just taking that dollar for dollar

821
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:00,040
Speaker 1: right off of your books. The acceleration part of it

822
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 1: is the same as if you would cut that player

823
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: at that particular moment. So if it's before June first,

824
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: any acceleration, any of the pro ration that you'd had

825
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 1: on there comes back into that year. But the advantage

826
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: to trading over cutting is that guaranteed monies leave right

827
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: are no longer your responsibility. If you're to cut a

828
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: player who has a full guarantee, you're on the hook

829
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: for paying that full guarantee if you were to cut him.

830
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: That makes sense, Yeah, it does. What's your favorite contract you.

831
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: Ever worked on? My favorite contract I ever worked on? Man,

832
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:44,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'd say like two thousand and twenty

833
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: twelve McCoy. Maybe I don't know. For certain reasons, I

834
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 1: can't say, but I mean, I love Lashawn McCoy. You've

835
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: seen him in a long time, but but I love that.

836
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: I also would say Jalen's too, because I love Jalen.

837
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: I have a great, great personal relationship with Jalen. I

838
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: think the world of him as a person, tons of

839
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: respect for him, and I really like Nicole too. Nicole

840
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 1: and I worked awesome together. I appreciate what she's done.

841
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: It's been a meteoric rise. I don't know of any

842
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: agent whose first real deal was a franchise quarterback type deal.

843
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: So that's that's incredible, and that's yeah. I mean, ultimately,

844
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: whether how he was having the day to day conversations

845
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 1: and a particular deal, whether I was more involved, how

846
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: it worked like it really is a very incredible thing

847
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: to see in your very eyes. I sat with every

848
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,320
Speaker 1: single player who signed a contract while they were signing,

849
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: and you're just part indirectly. I mean, you're watching someone's

850
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 1: life change instantaneously everything they've worked in, you know, I've

851
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: worked for and put in. That is an incredible, incredibly

852
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: powerful and awesome, awesome thing. I mean, I've seen it

853
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: with so many players I love, and I've seen how

854
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 1: they change too, like for the better over time and grow.

855
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 1: It's incredible.

856
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 2: When you see these situations. I mean, you know former

857
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 2: egal has On Reddick, this s Matt Judon. When you're

858
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 2: having these conversations and a guy wants more money is

859
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 2: sometimes it's like, well, we don't have the capability, like

860
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 2: this is not something we're that interested in, and we

861
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 2: really don't have the room to do what these guys want.

862
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 2: Like you just have to draw a line in the sand,

863
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: Like do you always know there's like a line or

864
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: it's I mean, I know Howie and you guys it

865
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: feels like that can move, like, well, we can make

866
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: this work if we really want to work, like you've

867
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: been kind of alluding to this whole time.

868
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, but you have a roster of

869
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 1: fifty three players. You know, if you only had a

870
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 1: couple of players and you make an exception for one,

871
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: that's fine. But you know that then you're going to

872
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: have ten more players at your door. It's no different

873
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: than if you have kids and you treat one different

874
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: than the other. So I think that the it's that

875
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: you can do it, but the complication of all these

876
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: moving parts, and when things have some level of equilibrium

877
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 1: and you feel like people are relatively happy since your

878
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: team is stable, when you have to put yourself in

879
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: a very difficult situation. I mean, the nature of the

880
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 1: job is how he has a ton of decisions every

881
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: single day to make. Some of them are relatively minor,

882
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: some of them are way you know are significant people

883
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 1: never even know about. But when a player is asking

884
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: for more money and you're making an additional commitment going forward,

885
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: you're looking at your entire team, the whole balance. You're

886
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:54,880
Speaker 1: looking at where you are next year, how old the

887
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: player is going to be. Then you're looking at analytics

888
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: and where do players fall off? Because no player teams

889
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: their performance forever, right, So you're always afraid of being

890
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 1: one year too late rather than one year too early.

891
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 1: It is, Yeah, it's complicated. There's a lot there. It's

892
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: easy to second guess if it doesn't go well, but.

893
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 2: It's not easy. No, I know I've kept you a

894
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 2: long time, so I want to hit on the athlete group,

895
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 2: and I know you've parted with Oklaholm. I was talking

896
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: to a buddy of mine that runs a major Power

897
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: five team and he was telling me about this guy

898
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 2: they gave eight hundred thousand dollars high school recruit, and

899
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: I was I knew you were coming on. I was thinking,

900
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:39,399
Speaker 2: what is the what's the draft slot where it's eight

901
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,359
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars, like, I mean we talked about man,

902
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: is that mid second round? I mean that's pretty high.

903
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

904
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 2: No, it's a lot of money.

905
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: It is a lot of money. I would say that

906
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,840
Speaker 1: I've heard far larger numbers.

907
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: But this was this was just this was alignment. Yeah,

908
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 2: quarterback ye alignment. This is eighteen year old alignment.

909
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I've heard a lot of those things. Well,

910
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: I'd say, like my role though, I am not negotiating

911
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: on behalf of a team. They're not outsourcing team building

912
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 1: to me by any means. My main function here in

913
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 1: college sports right now, the way I see it is

914
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: these programs as a whole. It may be an athletic

915
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: director that wants to assess where they are now versus

916
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: where they need to get to, or it's been lately

917
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: a lot of football offices themselves who realize that they

918
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: need to help that they're just not structured in the

919
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: right way. They're not equipped to evaluate this. Many players

920
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: to understand how to live in an environment where building

921
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: your team as a base is based on allocating assets

922
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: and spending money, not about just recruiting a crap out

923
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: of players. Like, it's a completely different mindset, it's a

924
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: completely different process. If you're going to evaluate I don't

925
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: know exactly what the number is, but with the portal,

926
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: if it's twice or three times the number of players

927
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 1: that you have in the past, how do you adapt

928
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 1: to meet that need? You know, evaluating players is far

929
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 1: more important than it was in the sense that you

930
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: have that many more and you got to compare, you know,

931
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 1: is it a one year portal fill in? Is it

932
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: building through high school which roughly equates to an NFL

933
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 1: draft versus NFL free agency being the portal? How do

934
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: those prices compare in terms of what you're going to

935
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: have to give a kid out of high school, or

936
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: maybe it's two players out of high school equal one portal?

937
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: Guy and is that better for the culture. There are

938
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: just so many different changes in mentality that need to

939
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: go on to build a team in this way. You know,

940
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 1: the first instinct everyone always thinks about is like, oh, well,

941
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 1: I could help them me personally, with my background. I

942
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: could help them figure out how to pay better, like

943
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 1: what the comps are, how to effectively match a player's

944
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 1: salary with the quality of play? And I believe I

945
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: can help. There are certain you know, techniques or things

946
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: we could do, but the real issues at heart here

947
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: are that the way college football. I'm saying college football

948
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: because it's it's the easiest thing to talk about the moment,

949
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: but college sports as a whole, the way they've operated

950
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: going way back, it no longer is effective anymore. There's

951
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: just so many new dynamics. And if you are scouting,

952
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: recruiting everything the way that you have done in the past.

953
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: This has actually been a theme for however long we've

954
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: been talking, but that you have to adapt. You have

955
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: to look at what is the situation right now and

956
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,319
Speaker 1: are we best set up? Are people doing what they're

957
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: best at? Do we need to specialize? Like how do

958
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 1: these things change? You know, you know, coaches do what

959
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: in college football, coaches they recruit and they scout. Coaches

960
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: in the NFL do a little scouting. They don't do much,

961
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 1: you know, a little recruiting sort of the coach and

962
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,919
Speaker 1: what a scouts do? They scout? And if you watch

963
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: a player, if you watch players all day, every day,

964
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,520
Speaker 1: that's what you do. You're gonna get better at it.

965
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: If you are splitting your time between three different things

966
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: and you're watching players, and like it is just normal

967
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: efficiency and whatever you save in terms of efficiencies, resources

968
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: flow to the players. So everyone in that office now

969
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: they're used to having analysts, you know up the ass

970
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 1: save an analyst they had a player. Maybe if you

971
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: find improvements elsewhere, that's the reality of it, you know. Efficient.

972
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: So you so you partner with Oklahoma and was going

973
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 2: into the SEC and obviously you know a lot of

974
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: pressure with the money that's going to be involved there.

975
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: You immediately I saw you were down there within the

976
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. Right, you'll meet with the with Vnables,

977
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: the athletic director. How do you get like your hands

978
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 2: around the s in the NFL? There are rules, yeah, right,

979
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:15,840
Speaker 2: I mean.

980
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:21,080
Speaker 1: You know I'm seeing I'm seeing what's going on. Yeah,

981
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: it's a lot. It's yeah. I mean in terms of,

982
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: you know, I've never done this before. Oh I did

983
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: imagine we consulted like when I first got college, but

984
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 1: I knew what my background was, when my experience was,

985
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: and how I thought I could help. I know I

986
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: can help now after having conversations with you know, a

987
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: d head coach GM, like, I know I have a

988
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: lot I can help them with and not just me

989
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: this whole thing. You know, My idea here with athlete

990
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 1: group in this business is that my network is probably

991
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: the best thing that I have going for me. Like,

992
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people. I've built a lot

993
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,960
Speaker 1: of great relationships. There are a lot of people who

994
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: are looking for ways to help or in the NFL,

995
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, in the NFL one year then they're out

996
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: of the NFL and they're looking to consult, they're looking

997
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: to help evaluate. And I figured to myself this problem

998
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: in college football. There's going to be things that I'll

999
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:25,320
Speaker 1: encounter in one of these engagements where a scout needs

1000
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: to help them, a scout needs to work through a

1001
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,960
Speaker 1: better grading scal or a better way to evaluate. I

1002
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: know those people. I'll bring in great scouts to work

1003
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: with them. I'll bring in great coaches who can sit

1004
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 1: there and talk to the coaches and explain why they

1005
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: might be better off if they're not primary evaluators. And

1006
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: I thought it was a great way to use my

1007
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: experience and what I've seen help them help make a

1008
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: difference now because this is this thing is coming, you know,

1009
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 1: and everybody needs.

1010
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 2: That already here.

1011
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 1: Oh it's here, but in terms of like this hard

1012
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: cap and it's not just like ask for more money

1013
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 1: to the collective. It's now, there are no more money, dude,

1014
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta figure it out. And so I thought

1015
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 1: I could legitimately make a difference. I could explain this

1016
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 1: is every day, this is a different way of thinking

1017
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: than what they have thought in the past. And so

1018
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see how I can help, and I'm gonna

1019
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: see every school will have a little bit different uh

1020
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: plan or what they need. I think I helped some

1021
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: schools higher. I think I'll helped some ads just get

1022
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: the lay of the land. And because eighties are a

1023
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 1: little panic too, they don't know what's going on either.

1024
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: This is their money that's going to be spent. So

1025
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm helping with.

1026
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 2: If you had to. I know you've just kind of

1027
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: tone this last couple of months, but I've got the

1028
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,680
Speaker 2: lay of the land. Do you think a potential nil

1029
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 2: cap is on the horizon as college figured everything out?

1030
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: I mean, it's gonna be too hard to.

1031
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 1: I'm not involved in any of these conversations at a

1032
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: high level, but whatever, what whether this would you recomenecute it?

1033
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: And I'll cap no, because I think players are worth

1034
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: The players are worth and no one is really going

1035
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: to be capping that in the sense that if a

1036
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: player has a huge social media following, plays a premier position,

1037
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: is in a premier college, and has the opportunity to

1038
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: move the needle and sign I don't know, pick a

1039
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: sponsor or whatever, you know, whoever a Bose deal. That's

1040
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: legit and they should be allowed to do that. It's

1041
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: just a question of the pay for play type of

1042
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: stuff that has been disguised as nil. And if there

1043
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,439
Speaker 1: is a good way to take that out and then

1044
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 1: you have a legitimate cap, you will have players who

1045
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: still can monetize if they're able to move the needle

1046
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 1: and do stuff like that, And that seems like a

1047
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: much better system. But there's a lot of you need

1048
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:55,200
Speaker 1: to keep on order there, and that's always the issue.

1049
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: I guess I separated the two. I looked at pay

1050
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 2: for play, which technically ill, but it's obviously happening everywhere.

1051
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 2: There's the guys getting the commersion stuff, which I guess

1052
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: I didn't back. Obviously that is NIL different because paper

1053
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 2: play islally pretty addict roll right now, right.

1054
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, taper plays in house, though. I think that I

1055
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: think that the revenue share in the settlement schools will

1056
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,200
Speaker 1: opped in. They will get rep share and they will

1057
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 1: know each football program, for instance, will know what they

1058
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: have to spend on players. The question is above that

1059
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 1: from an NIL perspective, how that functions and whether the

1060
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: cap becomes the floor? Was it? Jordan said, the roof

1061
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 1: is the ceiling, whether the sorry or whether the cap

1062
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,479
Speaker 1: is the floor. And these schools that have these huge

1063
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: collectives can still pile money on through other means that

1064
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 1: would be That would be a little sad to me.

1065
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: I like caps capture fun to make you really be

1066
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: strategic and sobs and try to build a better mouse

1067
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 1: trap and not just it's not just a crazy arms race.

1068
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you got to go, but Eagles forty

1069
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 2: nine ers, Part Part two, h NFC Championship Game this.

1070
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: Year, I'm here for it. I would love it. I'll

1071
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: be there because that yeah, I'll be there that I

1072
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,800
Speaker 1: want to get into it. But the amount of the

1073
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: amount of whining and crying and like was so unbecoming,

1074
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 1: unbeco take it, just take it, just take it, and

1075
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:29,600
Speaker 1: that's it.

1076
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: Move A year later we saw that, right, yeah, but

1077
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 2: there was no crying.

1078
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 1: There was no crying.

1079
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 2: Look at the Super but just it did.

1080
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 1: I'll just say this, I'm proud of this. It didn't

1081
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: look at this. We lost the Super Bowl very very

1082
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: mmmm like see now I'm not I'm saying we all

1083
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: know that to have happened. There was not a single

1084
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: trace of that from a single person within the Philadelphia Eagles.

1085
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: And I looked at itpproach, different approaches, different.

1086
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 2: People say Brad Berry's a little quieter, not just.

1087
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: Him, though everyone had an opportunity. I mean, come on, anyway,

1088
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: you guys said.

1089
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 2: I mean, you guys just got a last But I hear,

1090
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 2: I hear. I think the Eagles is gonna be good.

1091
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 2: I've been on a regular yeah, so I'll be proud.

1092
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 2: It's gonna be good Packers go. The NFC is gonna

1093
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 2: be really good.

1094
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 1: I think that's what we think. We'll see what happens.

1095
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: That's why we all watch.

1096
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 2: You never know, Okay, Jake, good luck, keep rocking and

1097
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 2: rolling and don't forget about us in two years when

1098
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 2: you're in NFL. Yeah, front front show.

1099
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: I would hold your breath, but cool the volume

1100
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 2: M