1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: I really thought you were going to go for a nickname. 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: There you something you're throwing up? Cool on topic. Nickname, 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: I can really think a nacking. It's really Dumpsy Douglas, 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: may Bagel Oranges Douglas. Yeah, he would be your your 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: mafia names. You're you're you're a monster personas. Yeah, Julie 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 1: bat in the corner, Douglas, bat in the corner baseball back. 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: I was thinking an actual bat since we just did 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: an episode on Vampire Back. Oh no, no, no, it's 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: like I got a bat in the corner. This this 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: guy might be rabbit. I'll just unleash ing at you 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: any moment you have to go get a raby shot 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: and everything going from the jugula. Yeah, all right, Or 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: maybe we can just call me Joe Pesci, Joe Phi okay, 17 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: forever associated with movie. That's right, very very typecast that man. Yeah. So, 18 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: if you haven't guessed already or bothered to read the 19 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: title of podcasts, we are of course talking about the 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: cuckoo mafia. We're talking about the animal mafia. We're talking 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: a little bit about the the human mafia as well, 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: and in the various forms one encounters it. Yeah, because 23 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: you do if you actually take this system, this organized system, 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: when you begin to really peel back the layers you 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: can see in all different places in society, right, Yeah, 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: you really begin to see mafia organized crime. And is 27 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: not this uh bunch of stereotypical looking guys. Uh, you know, 28 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: Joe Pesci's and uh and and their their ilk standing 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: in the corner and doing very stereotypical things. You see 30 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: it as kind of an economic model that is spread 31 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: not only through all human culture, but even into the 32 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: animal world. Well, I was gonna say, like even in 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: our break room, you have Jonathan Strickland there, who you know, 34 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: you gotta put money in a certain place in the 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: the break room right to get access to the coffee. Coffee, right, 36 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: or there's no more coffee. And that's just the way 37 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: it is, right if you want coffee supply fresh and 38 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: you want it every day, and then Stricklin gets his payment, right, 39 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: Or the way that when we bring our yogurts and 40 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: we always have to bring in that one extra yogurt 41 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: because one Christian conger insists on having quote just enough 42 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 1: to wetter beak otherwise, otherwise all the yogurt winds up 43 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: on the floor, all of it, and it's it's it's 44 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: discussing in it and it it really takes to that 45 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: because like that's delicious yogurt and it all went to waste. 46 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: And why because I wasn't willing to put up with 47 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: just a little yogurt loss in my diet each week. 48 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: That's right. Everybody loses the yogurt if you do not 49 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: supply it for Kristen alright, So we are not trying 50 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: to glorify the mafia, which is actually if you think 51 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: about mafia, that is a huge umbrella term under which 52 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: many different organizations from different cultures around the world huddle underneath. 53 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: And we tend to think of the Godfather and then 54 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: this quaint group of men just playing checkers and their undershirts. Um. 55 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: But worldwide we'd see mafia doing different types of damage 56 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: in the way of human trafficking, legal wildlife trading, uh 57 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: drugs of course, to just to name a few. So 58 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: I want to put that out there. This is not 59 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: glorifying the mafia, but we just wanted to kind of 60 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: cover how they work in the world, so that we 61 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: have a better understanding of how animals may be doing 62 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: the same sort of strategies and tactics at the mafia 63 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: is indeed, Yeah, And I should add I love the 64 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: Guy Father movies. Those are some great films, and there 65 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: are a few other organized crime pieces here and there 66 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: that I've really enjoyed over the years. But I find 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: more and more I just cannot watch films or get 68 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: involved in in media that is about those sort of 69 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: stereotypical gangster character is one of the reasons I never 70 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: even could manage to watch The Sopranos, even though I 71 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: know The Sopranos is supposed to be brilliant. I know, 72 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: I know, but at the at heart, it's about these, uh, 73 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: these these criminal guys that I've seen are you know, 74 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure less um artistically solid takes on them so 75 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: many times before, it's like I just don't have any 76 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: more room for it, Like I'm not convinced there's anything 77 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: new that I can gain from characters that are even 78 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: partially cast from this mold. All right, let's talk about 79 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: this mold. Because when we talk about in the mafe, 80 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: we are essentially talking about Kosa nostra, which is roughly 81 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: translated as our thing, which is kind of this closed 82 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: circuit within a criminal syndicate. And we talked about these 83 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: criminal syndicates we're really talking about, at least in this 84 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: old usage of that term um in southern Italy Sicily, 85 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: these different neighborhoods in which certain families lorded over those communities. 86 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: And I thought this was really interesting. I found this 87 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: little tidbit of John Gotti talking to some of his 88 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,239 Speaker 1: subordinates about Kosa nostra and um. This was right before 89 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: he got ratted out by a bunch of people. And 90 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: he says, this is going to die. Okay, I'm gonna 91 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: quit doing that being an hour from now, or be 92 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: it tonight or a hundred years from now, when I'm 93 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: in jail. It's gonna be a cost some guys, some 94 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: people downstairs. He's referring to the nightclub below. Now, who 95 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: I know who's babe, stomach is rotten. I know who 96 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: stomach ain't rotten. You could I could smell it the 97 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: way a dog senses when a guy's got fear. Okay, 98 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: that's not just for local color to give you an 99 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: idea of what the mafia sounds like, because everybody probably 100 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: already knows that. Um, but I thought that that conversation, 101 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,600 Speaker 1: just that little excerpts spoke volumes about the environment of 102 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: fear and implied violence that would come to those who 103 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: crossed the code. Yeah. There you see, um, the beginnings 104 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: of a system that's keeping everybody in check because it's hard. 105 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: It is a parasitic relationship. It is a parasite feeding 106 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: up on the host. But on top of that, we 107 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: have this layer of fear and intimidation, which and it 108 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: comes down to an economic model. I mean, did just 109 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: think of just your average mafia scenario from a thousand movies, right, 110 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: some guys running a shop and some uh you know 111 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: individual walks in, perhaps with a heavy behind him, and says, hey, 112 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: you've got a nice shop. Here. Would be a pity 113 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: if something happened to it. I can prevent things, bad 114 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: things from happening to it, if you give me X 115 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: amount of dollars, you know, per per month. So it 116 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: comes down to, all right, which if I'm gonna expend, 117 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to waste some energy, expend some energy 118 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: to pay this man, all right, so we we will 119 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: put how much we stack that money up on the counter. 120 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: But then if I were to resist this individual, I 121 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: would have to expend even more energy, right, I would 122 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: have to somehow fight him back physically or align with 123 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: those who would and and then that comes with inherent risks. 124 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: So it comes down to just an economic decision which 125 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: is easier and which entails less risk. And the interesting 126 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: thing about this is that within this code, this system, 127 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: there's a kind of justice that is doled out, particularly 128 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: if you are in the mafia landscape, right and you're 129 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: one of the enforcers. If the person doesn't pay up, 130 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: there's a justice. You know, you're not your restaurant's not 131 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,679 Speaker 1: going to run very well pretty soon. Maybe your brother 132 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: won't get that promotion. You know, there are things that 133 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: benefit the person who's paying, not just um, just the 134 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: maintenance of their restaurant, but perhaps there's social stature right 135 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: and there, and I've been often there is some degree 136 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: of protection there, certainly from other nefarious individuals. Like you're 137 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: probably not going to be paying to protection rackets to 138 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: two different parasitic mafia dudes. You're gonna be paying one dude, 139 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: and that dude is going to keep you have to 140 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: dude off your back because you are now part of 141 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: his turf. So that's a great point. That's safety elements. 142 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: So that kind of comes down to this idea of 143 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: what is altruism and we should probably do another episode 144 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: UM that is completely dedicated to altruism because it's very interesting. UM. 145 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: But there's this idea of altruistic punishment versus selfish on 146 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: selfish punishment, which is what the mafia does write that 147 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: selfish unselfish and according to Princeton University and University of 148 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: Arizona researchers, society's rule against selfishness or rules rather are 149 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: rooted in the very exploitation that they condemn. And it 150 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: may be that the reason that some of the selfish 151 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: unselfish UM justice punishment comes down the pike is because 152 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: it's a resources issue. At the end of the day, 153 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: it's a little bit easier to seed control to a 154 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: couple of really influential UM peddlers out there in the 155 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: community and say rather than really be engaged civically and 156 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: try to meet out justice in a way that is 157 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: thoughtful and community minded. Yeah, because on one hand, with 158 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: the altruistic punishment model. You have the idea of you know, 159 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: like the wise, benevolent mayor of the town saying, oh, well, 160 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: if you break the rules, they're gonna be there. There's 161 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: gonna be a cost, or you know you're gonna you know, 162 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna wind up in the jail cell. You're gonna 163 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: wind up with a with a fine, Are you gonna 164 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: be expelled? What have you? And then on the on 165 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: the selfish on selfish side of the the word, agin the 166 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: mafia punishment, that is one guy saying, hey, these people 167 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: on my turf, you can't mess with them, that's what 168 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: I do. You can't exploit them because I am exploiting 169 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: them to the degree that I can get away with it. Yeah, 170 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: And the system of altruism was actually reported in the 171 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: journal Evolution. And what they did is they they took 172 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: a simulation model that gauged tow community with Stanza system 173 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: built on altruistic punishment or selfish on selfish punishment, and 174 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: they did they found that that um, that kind of 175 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: altruistic punishment which the community comes together and is very 176 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: civic minded, does demand a lot of resources. And that 177 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: is perhaps why systems like the mafia tend to do 178 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: really well because as a result, there is a lower 179 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: instance of crime overall in that community against citizens. So 180 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: you may say, oh, hey, a couple of people become 181 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: fat cats and they're awful and they do some terrible things, 182 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: but as a whole, the community is protected. Yes. And 183 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: what was what's really fascinating about this, uh, this Princeton 184 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: University University at Arizona study, was how they draw in 185 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: that idea that not only does the simpler economic model 186 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: again is that is the fat cat model, the mafia 187 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: model as opposed to the altruistic ruler model, but their 188 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: idea that we get that that more altruistic version of 189 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: civilization and society emerges from the fat cat model. It 190 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: evolves over time. And you really see this if you 191 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: sort of squint your eyes and really think about the 192 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: systems of power in the world, Like, what is the 193 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: difference between the mafia boss who keeps things under wrap 194 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: but is getting plenty on the side, is living very 195 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: comfortable at the top. What is the difference between that dude, 196 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: that Joe Pesci sort of type cast character and a government. 197 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: What's the difference between that dude and a corporation what's 198 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: the difference between that dude and just a you know, 199 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: you're average local, nice guy employer, Like there are elements 200 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: of the same model everywhere you look. Well, yeah, and 201 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: talk about influence peddlers and fat cats if you're talking 202 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: about lobbyists. And I'm not saying that all lobbyists are 203 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: working outside of the margins, but we have a couple 204 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: of cases under our belt that we can point to 205 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: lobbyists having tremendous wealth and power and essentially some people, 206 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: looking at it this way, buying politicians, uh literally buying 207 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: them by offering them money or goods um or maybe 208 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: just even their influences so great that they have that 209 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: politician in their pocket. Now, let's get out of the 210 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: mafia model for a moment, and let's get into a 211 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: more medieval model, which actually, yeah, I mean this, this 212 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: predates the mafia right and medieval Knights basically a military 213 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: order created in nine to protect Christian pilgrims visiting Jerusalem. 214 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Knights Templar. They branched out over 215 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: time in Western Europe and they created a network of 216 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: banks that in the abled religious pilgrims to deposit assets 217 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: in their home countries and then withdrawal of the funds 218 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: in the Holy Land. Right, so what do you have 219 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: over time? You have the Nights Templar gaining huge amounts 220 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: of financial resources, and we still have that protection element 221 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 1: in there. So all of a sudden the threat becomes 222 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's not even the threat is so pervasive 223 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: they don't have to say it. If you don't pay up, 224 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: if you don't give it to the Knights Templar, perhaps 225 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 1: something bad will befall you. It's in the Nights Templars 226 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: model is an interesting to want to look at too, 227 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: because of course the Knights Templars did reach that point 228 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: we're talking about, at what point do I say it's 229 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: actually worth the effort to break down this organization, And 230 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: that eventually occurred there would be Catholic Church, of course, 231 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 1: eradicated the Templars after a while. So and you can 232 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: definitely make the argument that this is a case of 233 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: one fat cat looking over the other fact at and 234 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: unim like, you know what used to be a smaller 235 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: cat in our feral community, but now you're a little 236 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: too big, a little too powerful, and uh and uh, 237 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: and we're gonna see that you go away and I 238 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: don't want to put it all on the the Catholic Church. 239 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: The King of France also played a substantial role in 240 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: that scenario as well. But that does go back to 241 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: um that mathematical model in which we're talking about two people, 242 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: those two fat cats that are trying to cancel each 243 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: other out and and say, at the end of the day, 244 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: their coda rules. Yeah, because everybody can't be a fat cat, 245 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: and you can only have so many parasites living off 246 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: the host. Uh and and so there's there's a careful 247 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,079 Speaker 1: balance that has to be maintained. And again, you can 248 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: look to governmental models, you can look to big business, 249 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: and you see very similar things. There can only be 250 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: so many dominant players in the particular commercial market, and 251 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: what did they do that. There's a certain amount of 252 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: competition they will tolerate, and then there are certain certain 253 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: types of competition that they will readily feast upon or destroy. 254 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: All Right, we're gonna take a quick break, and when 255 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: we get back, we're gonna talk about Kuka birds, gonna 256 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: talk about their spaghetti dinners in their back room. All right, 257 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: we're back. Before we start talking about our fine feathered friends, 258 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 1: let's talk about tree wasps and cancer cells because they 259 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: do actually have something to do with this whole mafio. 260 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: So this system, indeed, we now wasps engage in UH 261 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: and some of the other practices. We're going to discuss 262 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: UH shortly. But tree wasps. UH haven't observed that police 263 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: hives to make sure that no member other than the 264 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: queen lays eggs. And the same police, though, will often 265 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: lay illicit eggs themselves. So that's the case where it's 266 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: my job to lay down the law. But since I'm 267 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: the one laying down the law, I'm the one that 268 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: can bend it a bit, indeed, and so it's kind 269 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: of interesting. I'll just slip in a couple of my eggs. 270 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: That's all right. I'm the influence peddler here exactly. And 271 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: then in terms of cancer cells, we know that mutations 272 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: and a cell's own DNA initiate the changes that put 273 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: it on a really destructive path. But it's a lot 274 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: more or nuanced than that, because the micro environment of 275 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: a tumor acts like a kind of co conspirator. And 276 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: we won't get way into this because we could dedicate 277 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: entire podcast to this, but essentially, what you see our 278 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: cancer cells that will prevent other tumors from forming, as 279 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: if to say, no, no, no, this is my my 280 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: tumor corner here, which you know, essentially at the same 281 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: time as kind of a good things. There's no more 282 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: tumors that are forming. But you see this again in 283 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: nature and you see it best and birds ah yes, 284 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: And that of course is why we call this episode 285 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: the Cuckoo Mafia, because we see some really fascinating birds 286 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: that are involved in brood paraticism also known as egg 287 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: dumping now egg dumping. When you just say that, it 288 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: brings to mind like just this idea of of a 289 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: bird that I know what to do with his eggs, 290 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: just like throwing them off a cliff or something. But 291 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: that's not not what's going on here. This is the 292 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: idea that that on one hand, you have the birds 293 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: that are are are laying their heads, they're raising their young, 294 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: uh and it's a nice, beautiful, wonderful thing that you 295 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: would see in a child's book about nature. And then 296 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: you have those other birds. Those birds don't care. They 297 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: don't want to look after that egg and raise that 298 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: that chick and and vomit food into its mouth. They 299 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: have other things to do. They have a different set 300 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: of values, but they have a genetic mission. Like all organisms, 301 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: they need their offspring to survive. So they've developed this 302 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: practice of dumping eggs on these other bird nests, on 303 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: these other more stable environments, with the intention that the 304 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: egg will hatch and the chick will be raised in 305 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: that environment. And ha ha ha on that that poor 306 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: bird in the nest, right, And we see this in 307 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: sea birds. But the thing about seabirds is that they 308 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: will deposit their eggs and then take off, and then 309 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: they won't know whether or not this actually came to 310 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: fruition there. They're young, broad right, and in some cases, 311 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: if the ag hatches, it's likely going to be eaten 312 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: by the very family that they were dumped upon. It's 313 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: not a good model, really, And they have to find 314 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: eggs that are species that are somewhat similar to them 315 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: so that the egg can maybe squeak in there and 316 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: go unnoticed at least for a while, right, Because eggs, 317 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: if you just looking at chicken eggs in the fridge, 318 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, just the white kind that come from here supermarket. 319 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: You may miss out on this. But there is a 320 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: lot of difference among all the different types of bird 321 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 1: eggs out there. There's different colors, different patterns, and so 322 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: a bird is going to be able to tell if hey, 323 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: I I lay brown eggs and there is a blue 324 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: speckled one in here. Something is off. Somebody's trying to 325 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: pull one over on me, It's true. And so we 326 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: have birds that will do the sort of egg dumping, 327 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: but they're going to take these mafia like tactics and 328 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: ensure that that egg will be taken care of, that 329 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: it gets protected, and it does that vise of the 330 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: the own protection or destruction that it offers. Right. One 331 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: of the best examples of this, of course, is the 332 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: the cowbird. There are two species of cowbird. You'll find 333 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: both in North America, and they've they've managed to spread 334 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: out even more from their original territory due to the 335 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: way that we we treat our land as a as 336 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: a human species. But what's remarkable here is that they 337 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: are very much like that that scenario we're talking about earlier. Hey, 338 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: nice story, would it would be a pity if something 339 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,119 Speaker 1: happened to it? And then if you don't pay up, 340 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: what happens, Well, suddenly the front window to your store 341 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: is broken, your your merchandise is thrown out in the street, 342 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: maybe something catches on fire. There's retribution if you do 343 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: not obey the laws. Now, these earlier models that these 344 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: these sea birds we're talking about, there's no retribution. They're 345 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: just they're just taking a risk. Maybe maybe they'll raise it, 346 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: maybe they won't. Maybe it'll hatch and the young, young 347 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: one will will be able to squirm away before it's 348 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: it's pecked off as as an interloper. But with a cowbird, uh, 349 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: there is retribution. Now this used to be just more 350 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: of a theory than anything. Believe. The original theory, the 351 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: mafia theory of the cowbird, came from evolutionary biologists uh 352 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: Amas Xavi and back in seventy nine. But eventually scientists 353 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: put all this to the test. That's right. Jeff Hoover 354 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: at the Illinois Natural History Survey in Champagne, Illinois, provided 355 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: artificial nests for one and eighty pair of profonetary warblers 356 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: and then waited for the cowbirds to cuckle them to 357 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: deposit their eggs. Then he selectively removed the cowbird eggs. 358 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: So what happened pretty soon the cowbirds swooped in, they retaliated, 359 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: They returned to the nest to eat or destroy the 360 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: remaining warbler eggs. And what's more, warblers that had laid 361 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 1: too early for the cowbirds to cuckle them, they also 362 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: suffered retrobration to their nests also got turned over and destroyed, 363 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: and the cowbirds would routinely eat or trash these more 364 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: developed eggs to force the warblers to rebuild their next 365 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 1: elsewhere and start over again and hopefully have it in 366 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: sync when with the cowbirds could swoop in and deposit 367 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: an egg. So, yeah, they came in and just totally 368 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: devastated things. They really drove home and we're again we're 369 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: gonna anthromorphize a little to layer that mafia understanding of 370 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: this on the behavior, but they really come in tear 371 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: everything up, murder with the strong message, Hey, do you 372 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: want to survive in this world? If you want to 373 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: carry out the genetic mission of passing on your own 374 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 1: genetic material and saying that your children exist into the 375 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: next generation generation behind it, the only way you're gonna 376 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: do it is by playing along with this little scheme 377 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: of ours. You're gonna have to accept it to a 378 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 1: agree because the cost is way too high for you 379 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: to pay. Yeah, and to put numbers behind that cost. 380 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: Hever says that, um, I get that this is what 381 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: you just described as an evolutionary state of acceptance, and 382 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: that the cost is that on average, the host birds 383 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: will raise three of their own chicks when they also 384 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,639 Speaker 1: support a cowbird chick. Yet they raised just one of 385 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: their own if a cowbird egg has been rejected. And 386 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: I like this idea of it's an evolutionary state of acceptance, 387 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: like I gotta, I gotta accept this because of terms, 388 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: it's an offer I can't refuse. Yeah, and you can 389 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: extrapolate that to to human culture as well, that there's 390 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: sort of this built in mathematical reason for why we 391 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: will tolerate a certain amount of of corruption, a certain 392 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: amount of of criminal activity, in a certain amount of 393 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: just general awfulness on the part of people's and organizations 394 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: that rule over our world. Yeah. And speaking of mathematical models, 395 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: this mafia hypothesis, which had been really controversial, was finally 396 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: borne out uh Maria Abou Chakra, Arnie Charleston, and Christigian 397 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: hill Bay. They modeled this hypothesis with cuckoopers who were 398 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,200 Speaker 1: ravaging I think they are magpie birds, and they found 399 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: that this theory does explain the behavior as long as 400 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: two conditions are met, one that the cuckoos visit the 401 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: same nest repeatedly, into that the host birds are capable 402 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: of learning. That's pretty important, right, because they also point 403 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,719 Speaker 1: out that they never establish an equilibrium here. So they 404 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: are regular cycles, uh, in terms of the frequency of 405 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: mafia such as we're talking about with retribution and non 406 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: mafia no retribution parasites and host and the acceptance of 407 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: the egg. So it's so you will have periods where 408 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of like did you ever read Fwick The 409 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,959 Speaker 1: Big Hearted Moose by by Dr Seuss's fabulous story Moose 410 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: has antlers. He lets one animal live in his antlers, 411 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: then another one's living there, and then there are more 412 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: and more animals living in his antlers until he finally 413 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 1: says enough is enough and he takes the antlers off 414 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: and he's no longer supporting all of these freeloaders. So 415 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: you kind of so inevitably you see this this cycle, 416 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: like how is it builds up? How much criminal behavior 417 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: is a species going to accept before they retaliate? And 418 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: then it gets back down? And then which ones are 419 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: going to actually um come in and destroy your stuff 420 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: if you throw the parasites out. So it's the the 421 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: relationship has to continually um find itself. Yeah, it's interesting 422 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 1: because um there is as you say, there's no equilibrium 423 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: here and um when you see the host behavior here, 424 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: it's either one of two things. Conditionally they'll accept an 425 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: egg or completely unconditionally, And that conditionally only occurs when 426 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: there is not a large population of um, the parasitic birds, 427 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 1: the cuckoo parasitic birds exhibiting that mafia behavior. So in 428 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: other words, they tend to be the majority. But what 429 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: happens is that the pendulum begins to swing back the 430 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: other way, because then the parasitic birds go, hey, we 431 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: need to start tipping over some nust here. Let them know. 432 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: And as soon as they become the majority the birds 433 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: that are exhibiting that mafia tendency, then all of a 434 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: sudden you have absolutely, like unconditionally of course drop her 435 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: egg to do it. I'd love to host them great. 436 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: And why this is so important is that this means 437 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: that the cowbirds they don't have to specialize uh, their 438 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: their eggs. They don't have to change any of the 439 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 1: dynamics and try to you know, fit in with other species. 440 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,959 Speaker 1: They don't have to worry about that that egg just 441 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: looking completely out of place, because it does. Because the 442 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: message is like, hey, if you know it's it's you know, 443 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: we're not trying to be a subtle here. You know, 444 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: if you if you don't pay me money, I'm going 445 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: to break your shop. If you don't raise this egg, 446 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: which looks sotly different from the other eggs, I'm gonna 447 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: come in and tear up your nest. And don't you 448 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: wish that dinosaur train had started with this modia parasite premise? 449 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: Oh man, you know, because isn't it The t rex 450 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: has been dropped in the nest and it's very obvious 451 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: to the mom turnded on like, oh, this is not 452 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: my kid here, Yeah, well it is her kid. Well, yes, 453 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: what I'm saying in in the mafia version that hasn't 454 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: come out yet, Yeah, yeah, it would be it would 455 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 1: be interesting to explore the certainly the the the animal 456 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: mafia side of that family dynamic. Indeed, although I guess 457 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: you know, historically wouldn't be necessarily accurate because we don't 458 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: have evidence during that period and then the fossil record 459 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: to say that we would have some parasitic well, they 460 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: have that character that marches out of the door and 461 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: uh and and explains to us what's real. Yeah, the 462 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: big downer, right, the debut downer who's like the dinosaurs 463 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: aren't actually purple and red and green spotted. Yeah. Alright, 464 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: So there you have it. The animal mafia, the cuckoo mafia, 465 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: the cowbird mafia. But let's turn back, just just one 466 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,920 Speaker 1: last time, even away from dinosaur train, and discuss the 467 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: real world of human mafia, because you found a little 468 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: bit of interesting data about their renewable energy interests. Look, yeah, 469 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: because again, the mafia is a huge thing, right, It's 470 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: not just a bunch of you know, Italian in their 471 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: undershirt explain checkers. Um. But I will say it goes 472 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: back to the roots here in Sicily, because it turns 473 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: out that the mafia is very interested and renewable energy, 474 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: specifically wind farms. Because one, it fits the landscape of 475 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: southern Italy right where they have a lot of influence 476 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: and a lot of land under their sway. Too, it's 477 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: really easy for them to launder money for renewable energy 478 00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: as you can you can make a lot of money 479 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 1: is renewable energy. I mean it's a fact. Yeah, because 480 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: it's not that there's not a lot of checks and 481 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: balances going on with that, and so as a result 482 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: you have this great robust alternative energy source going on 483 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: in Italy. So also government government money flowing into it 484 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: as well, you know, because ultimately that comes down to 485 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: it if if if money is to be made off 486 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: of it, the mafia is interested in it, if there's 487 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: blood to come out of the host, then the parasite 488 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: wants a taste, and they're being smart about their money. 489 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: Of course, now people will say that doesn't make things 490 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: right just because this is going on there. There are 491 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: terrible things that are being exacted upon humanity as a result, 492 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: But it does make it that the whole point about, um, 493 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: greater resources and protection for the community. Uh, pretty plain 494 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: and insight with this example of renewable energy making that 495 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: part of Italy, which historically has been poor flush with money. Yeah. 496 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: You know, Um, you watch Breaking Bad, correct, you reached 497 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: the point where you think it's early on in one 498 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: of the couple of seasons where you you encounter a 499 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: potential money laundering business, a laser tag establishment. Yes, that 500 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: is really colored the way I think about a lot 501 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: of businesses. Like if I go to do a business 502 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: and it's just a little too dream come true, then 503 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: I start to think about about the possibilities that it's 504 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: just a money laundering front. Like there are a few 505 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: different stores. I'm not gonna name any names, of course, 506 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: but there are few different stores in the Atlanta area, 507 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, And maybe I go inside and they just 508 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: have a few many toys for sale, or it just 509 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: seems that it seems just like a like too much 510 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: of a dream store. And I started doing customers, right, 511 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: maybe there aren't that many customers, and I started I 512 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: started thinking, it's like, how is this staying afloat? This 513 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: has to be some sort of a money laundering scheme. Yeah, 514 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: that show has completely changed my, uh perspective of nearly 515 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: everything that I encounter. In fact, I was driving through 516 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: my neighborhood the other day and the house was being 517 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: tented for pest control, and I was like, oh, yeah, 518 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: I know what's going on in there. Uh oh, Walter White, 519 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: You've changed our lives. It really should have invested in 520 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: wind farms, So didn't you think that would have been 521 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: kind of a jam. That would have been an interesting place. 522 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,199 Speaker 1: I can I mean that sounds very breaking bad. If 523 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: it were still going on, and I could, I could 524 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 1: easily imagine that point, and I a should have also 525 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: pointed out we discussed before that the wasps of course, 526 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: that the world of wasps includes a lot of vile behavior, 527 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: and that you'll see plenty of examples of parasitic wasp 528 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: laying their young inside of other nests, zombifying poor ladybugs, 529 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: but either bidding but also like hatching early in alien 530 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: nests and then eating all the other young. So so no, 531 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: no matter how bad you've got it, birds, just remember 532 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: it could be worse. You could have to put up 533 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: with the wasps. Alright, so well, we thank you for 534 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: putting up with us uh and joining us for the show. 535 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: And if you want more, then be sure to check 536 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: out stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That is 537 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: our our mothership. That's where you'll find all the episodes 538 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: of the podcast. You'll find all of our video products. 539 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: You'll find our blog posts as well as links out 540 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: to other stuff. We're up to various social media accounts, 541 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: including Facebook, Twitter, Tumbler. I believe we even have a 542 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: Pinterest account. There's the YouTube channel mind Stuff Show. Be 543 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: sure to follow us there, but just go to stuff 544 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com and you will find 545 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: all of those roads leading out. In the meantime, if 546 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: you have any mafia tinged thoughts or strategies to share 547 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: with us, you can do so at blow the Mind 548 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: at discovery dot com. For more on this and thousands 549 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.