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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norry

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Speaker 1: with you. We've got a fascinating couple hours here for you.

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Speaker 1: Retired major crimes investigator for the Syracuse, New York Police Department,

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Speaker 1: Chris de Perno was an overall skeptic about alien abduction phenomena.

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Speaker 1: Now after investigating some cases that held up in interviews

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Speaker 1: and evidence, he came to believe the testimony of the

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Speaker 1: people who experienced what he says can only be explained

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Speaker 1: as alien abduction. And here Chris's to tell us his

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Speaker 1: story tonight. Chris, thank you for joining us. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: good to have you with us. And tell me a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your life as a crimes investigator. Well,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight as a regular road patrol deputy and

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Speaker 1: then worked my way up to the detective division and

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Speaker 1: worked for a major metropolitan and police department in Syracuse,

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Speaker 1: where I specialized in interview and interrogation, and from there

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Speaker 1: started working on major crimes like homicide, shooting, stabbings, rapes,

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Speaker 1: and everything else that happened in the city of Syracuse.

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Speaker 1: And you seem to like it. You did it for

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Speaker 1: how many years? Twenty five years, my friend. It was

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Speaker 1: a long journey, but it was it was a very

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Speaker 1: rewarding journey. We solved a lot of heinous crimes and stuff. Now,

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Speaker 1: how did you get involved investigating some of these potential

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Speaker 1: alien abduction cases from people? I mean they called a

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Speaker 1: police department on things like that, Well, they didn't, you know,

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Speaker 1: like years ago. First of all, the subject was taboo.

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Speaker 1: But back in the seventies, we had a tremendous amount

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Speaker 1: of sightings and there was really nobody to call when

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Speaker 1: I first started. So they would call the city police

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Speaker 1: or the sheriff's department and say, hey, UFO landed out

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Speaker 1: here are there's something strange that's flying above my farm

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Speaker 1: or something's hovering over my house. And the only thing

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Speaker 1: we could do was go out and kind of tell them, say, hey,

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Speaker 1: we don't knock that about it. So, but it was

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Speaker 1: kind of taboo to talk about among the cops back then,

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Speaker 1: because if you did, I mean they would you know,

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Speaker 1: cops are very much of practical jokers toward each other,

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Speaker 1: and you would find alien stickers on your locker or

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Speaker 1: flying saucers hanging from you know, the ceiling in front

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Speaker 1: of your stuff, and I mean, it would just was

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Speaker 1: one of those things you didn't really talk about, but

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Speaker 1: it was always a mysterious thing. You know. We we

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Speaker 1: encountered people and we really didn't know much about it

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Speaker 1: other than what normal people just thought of. And I said, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of crazy, but you know what's going

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Speaker 1: on with these people? And I firmly didn't have to

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Speaker 1: even this, George. I said, you know, they're just mistaking

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Speaker 1: maybe military equipment in the sky that's flying around, maybe

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Speaker 1: a satellite or something of that nature. But I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to try to find out what

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Speaker 1: this deal is all about. And actually I tried to

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Speaker 1: want it debunk. My first, you know, reason to get

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Speaker 1: into this was they actually try to prove that this

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Speaker 1: wasn't real. I did it about face and did you

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Speaker 1: roll your eyes sometimes, Chris when these calls came in,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, you know I had calls come

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Speaker 1: in where you went out to people's and they said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, a spaceship landed in the middle of their

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Speaker 1: field and these green little men came running out and

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Speaker 1: they were taking soil samples and stuff. And you go

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Speaker 1: out there and say, well, they're not here now, and

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Speaker 1: they're not breaking into your house. There's not much I

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Speaker 1: can do about it. I mean, your cow's not gone,

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Speaker 1: your goats aren't gone. So you know, later, I have

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Speaker 1: a great day. Now, what changed your mind? What did

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Speaker 1: you start seeing that got you to go from a

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Speaker 1: true skeptic who rolls his eyes to a believer that

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Speaker 1: something might be going on here. Well, there was a

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Speaker 1: few things that happened while I was working. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously there were some remnants of when farmers, when I

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Speaker 1: was a deputy, farmers would call and say, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: I got these burn marks, I got this thing out

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Speaker 1: there that's a complete circle, or there's you know, there's

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Speaker 1: some strange indentations in the field. So I always kept

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Speaker 1: that in the back of my mind. But when I retired,

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Speaker 1: I actually said, Okay, I'm going to take a look

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Speaker 1: at this and I'm going to follow it just like

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Speaker 1: I would do a homicide or any kind of criminal case.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it and let the evidence show me.

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Speaker 1: And so the first thing I wanted to do is

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the abduction people. And I wanted to say,

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Speaker 1: is this crazier or not so The first thing I

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Speaker 1: did was I joined the Mutual and UFO network to

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Speaker 1: become a field investigator. I kind of want to get

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Speaker 1: an idea. And you had you had that great investigative experience. Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I just incorporated the investigative experience with the UFO

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Speaker 1: phenomenon experience that to be able to say, Okay, now

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Speaker 1: I kind of know what I'm talking about and I

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Speaker 1: can understand what they're saying. But then I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I want to start talking to some cops. I want

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Speaker 1: to start talking to some people who might know about this.

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Speaker 1: And the very first thing, one of the very first

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Speaker 1: cases I thought it was a police chase down near

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Speaker 1: Taganet Parkway down near the Hudson Valley, and I, you know,

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Speaker 1: cops will talk to other cops, and so I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk to them and say, hey, what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And so the very first one that made me start

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Speaker 1: putting me on this path was I talked to these

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Speaker 1: police officers whose one night saw this craft and it

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Speaker 1: was hovering me maybe a little lower than tree top level,

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Speaker 1: and it took off and he started actually starting to

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Speaker 1: go after it, and from going after it started they

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Speaker 1: started chasing and they're calling on the radio saying, hey, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're chasing this thing down the road and you know

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Speaker 1: it's going this way, it's going that way. And the

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Speaker 1: other police officer, who happened to be a park police officer,

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Speaker 1: he's laughing hysterically his car. He's telling me, Chris, I'm

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Speaker 1: laughing hysterically in my car, and I can hear these

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Speaker 1: guys coming up the roadway. So I, you know, I

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Speaker 1: parked my car and I stopped, and I got out

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Speaker 1: of the car and I looked straight up and there's

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Speaker 1: the thing hovering by my car. I'm nearly having chest pains,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the thing takes off. So they did

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Speaker 1: the smart thing. They called the FAA and they said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, check with the tower and see if there's

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Speaker 1: anything flying around this. And the towel comes back and says,

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Speaker 1: we've got nothing on radar, but you know, we we

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Speaker 1: think that usually seeing Venus. And he tells the dispatcher, well,

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Speaker 1: Venus just went under the bridge. Yeah, exactly. Blame it

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Speaker 1: on the Venus. Everybody blames it on Venus. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: Venus can't go under a bridge. But then the other one,

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Speaker 1: I had a correction officer that was abducted with his wife,

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Speaker 1: and there were two correction officers working in upstate New York,

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Speaker 1: and they were driving down after eleven or three to

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Speaker 1: eleven shifts, and all of a sudden, there's a craft

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the road, and I'm listening to

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Speaker 1: this guy and he says, Chris, nothing but a brick

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Speaker 1: white red light hit our car. My wife turned to

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Speaker 1: me and goes, just get out of here. And that's

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Speaker 1: the last thing he remembers. And then there's several miles

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Speaker 1: down the road and they have no idea how they

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Speaker 1: got there. Like the Barney and Betty hillcase, almost very

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Speaker 1: close to it. So I wanted to challenge this correction

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Speaker 1: officer because I really wanted to see what this was about.

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Speaker 1: And so he's telling me that he went to Bruce

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Speaker 1: Budd Hopkins to do a regression. He says, Chris, the

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Speaker 1: regression was so frightening that I had to stop in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it because I was screaming on his couch. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that says Okay. He says, there's another time I was abducted.

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Speaker 1: We'll tell me about this, and he explains that, you know,

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Speaker 1: he goes outside because he feels that there's something above

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Speaker 1: his house. He has that strange feeling which a lot

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Speaker 1: of abductees have they know it's coming, to feel it.

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Speaker 1: It's just like some sensation. And he walks out and

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Speaker 1: he actually takes a picture of a tik tak that's

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Speaker 1: above his house. Says, I get abducted and I still

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Speaker 1: have the camera, and I send a picture to Bruce mccabee.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm going to challenge him on this because now

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Speaker 1: I can follow some evans. So he says, send me

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Speaker 1: the picture. So I get the picture. And there's no

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Speaker 1: better person to analyze a picture than Bruce Mackwell, I

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Speaker 1: used to be called in our show last week. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of facts, Yeah, he's one of the best.

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Speaker 1: I said to this guy, says, listen, before I call

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Speaker 1: Bruce mccabee, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you right now.

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Speaker 1: I'm calling him, and if he tells me this is garbage,

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Speaker 1: your case is garbage. And I basically called Bruce mccabee

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Speaker 1: and Bruce macbey says, no, it's a real deal. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, I analyze that and there's actually

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Speaker 1: two take tik taks up there, So now there's credibility

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Speaker 1: to this. Guy's case. So now you've got a correction

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Speaker 1: officer talking about his abduction. You've got a police chase

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Speaker 1: where they're calling I actually on a police radio that

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Speaker 1: they're chasing something. Which if these guys were trying to

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Speaker 1: make it up, you know, they'd lose their jobs. That

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Speaker 1: is just. And as these were evolving, more and more

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Speaker 1: of these cases came your way, you became to just

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Speaker 1: say to yourself, there's something here. Oh, absolutely. And then

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Speaker 1: we had the Lake Champlaine case where a wife actually

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Speaker 1: says to her husband, says, come on, let's go outside,

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Speaker 1: tells her stepmother, her husband and her nine year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: let's go outside on the porch by the lake. And

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Speaker 1: she has also a feeling that something's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: When Lo and Behol. As it starts to get dusk,

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Speaker 1: they see the craft and the grandmother, or I should

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Speaker 1: say the stepmother believes that it's a plane on fire,

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Speaker 1: but it's actually an orb and the orb comes tree

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Speaker 1: top level, and the husband was smart enough to take pictures.

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Speaker 1: He actually pulled out his cell phone and took some

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Speaker 1: pictures of this, and just as it starts cruising towards

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Speaker 1: the lake's edge, it takes off, boom gone. And I

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Speaker 1: as I'm interviewing her, I'm saying to her, I'd say,

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Speaker 1: all right, how do you know that this was coming? Where?

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Speaker 1: Where did you get this idea? She goes, well, I've

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Speaker 1: always had these sensations ever since my mother was abducted.

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Speaker 1: I says, say that again. I says, my mother was

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Speaker 1: abducted and they were staying over my cribs. My mother said,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't abducted, but she was abducted. She had an

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Speaker 1: encounter with aliens when I was just a baby, and

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Speaker 1: they were over my cribs, and says Chris, I have

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Speaker 1: a feeling every single time when they come. So I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I want to interview everybody in your family.

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Speaker 1: So I actually called and tracked down the original mother

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Speaker 1: and I had an interview her. She said, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, the child was a baby, she

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Speaker 1: was in the cribs. So she verified all this. She

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Speaker 1: verified everything. And this is why George I says there's

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Speaker 1: some in this phenomenon, because there's their stories are matching up,

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Speaker 1: and they're you know, miles away and this you know,

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Speaker 1: and you're you're trying to trying to see if they're

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Speaker 1: lying and things. You're trying to get boxing what they

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Speaker 1: call boxing them into a story right where you know,

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Speaker 1: if they start exaggerating and started going in a different direction,

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Speaker 1: you know that there's some kind of lie. But they're

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Speaker 1: not doing that, George. They're they're sticking with it and

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Speaker 1: they're basically, you know, collaborating what the other person is saying.

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Speaker 1: That's remarkable, it truly is. And in your new incarnation,

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Speaker 1: are you an investigator full time for move On? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm actually the state director in New York and I

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Speaker 1: have a wonderful team. I have a chief investigator by

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Speaker 1: the name of John lembartle does a phenomenal job, and

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Speaker 1: assistant UH state Director Tommy Nesser, who just runs it.

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Speaker 1: And I've got the best I got about fourteen field

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Speaker 1: investigators through the state and they handle you know, cases

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Speaker 1: all over New York State, abductions, everything, and we kind

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Speaker 1: of supervise it now and look at all these different

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Speaker 1: things that are happening all over New York, especially the

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Speaker 1: Hudson Badly wasn't there away case in Seneca County. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was incredible, George, because it's the first time you

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Speaker 1: had sightings by people and there were other people there

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Speaker 1: that didn't see a thing. They were all by a campfire,

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Speaker 1: and as they're sitting there by the campfire, there's about

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Speaker 1: three or four people who actually and they don't really

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Speaker 1: know each other. They're at a raceway and the raceway

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Speaker 1: got canceled because of rain, but that night it was nice,

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Speaker 1: so they built the fire. Other people come to the

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Speaker 1: fire and they're about three or four people saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: look at those arms up in the sky. They're making

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Speaker 1: a circle. Everything else. Now this is befour years years

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Speaker 1: before drones became popular and stuff. And they're looking at

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Speaker 1: these things and they actually absorb into one and then

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Speaker 1: split up again until about three or four, but only

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Speaker 1: three or four people out of nine can see it.

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Speaker 1: The others look up and they say it, we don't

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Speaker 1: see a thing. That's weird. How do three or four

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Speaker 1: people able to see this, but yet the others don't.

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Speaker 1: That is weird. He would think it's all or none, right, exactly,

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Speaker 1: But there are people who can see things. From what

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Speaker 1: we've seen so far, there are people who can actually

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Speaker 1: see these things. And there are people who will look

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Speaker 1: at the same spot either see something different or see

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Speaker 1: nothing at all. For instance, we've had people who said

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Speaker 1: there's a triangle up there and a person's danding right

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Speaker 1: next to them. This is a Hudson Valley case. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not a triangle. It's a rectangle. And they're arguing

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Speaker 1: about the alien craft that's hovering over a house. What

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Speaker 1: have you concluded, Chris, with all these experiences about what

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Speaker 1: may be going on, Well, it's certainly not the Chinese.

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Speaker 1: We can rule that out because, as you know, during

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Speaker 1: World War Two, the Chinese didn't even have an airplane.

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Speaker 1: They had to get airplanes from us. It's not the Russians.

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Speaker 1: And I firmly believe, in my humble opinion, that we're

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Speaker 1: being visited and we're being abducted by extraterrestrials from other places. Now,

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Speaker 1: whether they're dimensional, I don't know, Whether from another planet,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that. But I mean, obviously there is

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Speaker 1: something from not of this world that are using us

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Speaker 1: as a petre dish. Lots of people go missing around

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Speaker 1: this planet every year, thousands, hundreds of thoughts. Is it

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Speaker 1: conceivable that they're being abducted and not brought back. They're

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Speaker 1: not only being abducted and not brought back, but when

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Speaker 1: they come back, there's physical injuries. Most people don't realize

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Speaker 1: that a lot of abductees have all kinds of physical

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Speaker 1: injuries after their abduction. And we're just starting to piece

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Speaker 1: some of the stuff together that we believe that it's frequencies,

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Speaker 1: especially if they use telepathic messages. We believe that they

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Speaker 1: may be using like microwave energy in order to send

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Speaker 1: You got to send a telepathic message one way or another,

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Speaker 1: and the best way to do it is through frequency.

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Speaker 1: We know our US government has been using it back

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Speaker 1: in the fifties. They use it as a weapon. It's

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Speaker 1: a science. What's that It's a science? Oh? Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: so we know that if you use certain frequencies, you

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Speaker 1: can actually penetrate or person's brain. And now they're talking

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Speaker 1: about being able to put in hallucinations or thoughts or

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Speaker 1: different things. It's it's getting really scary because if they

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Speaker 1: can do this, they can weaponize it or and if

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Speaker 1: the frequency is too high or something, they may actually

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Speaker 1: cause brain cells to be damaged. What do you think

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Speaker 1: their motive is, Chris, what do they want? Or a

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Speaker 1: Petri dish? I firmly believe that they look at us

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Speaker 1: as nothing like we look at dolphins. And whales, we

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Speaker 1: tag them and we send them back out. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's the same thing with us. They're they're researching us.

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Speaker 1: And my saying is always told the field investigators, they're

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Speaker 1: researching us, so we better start researching them more seriously

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Speaker 1: than what we are right now. And we could be

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Speaker 1: their creation. We could we could be part of that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we haven't evolved to the point where we

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Speaker 1: can probably talk to them on their basis. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously that's that's what's going on. But if we are

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Speaker 1: part of them, and if we are their creation, they

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Speaker 1: should be at least telling us more than what they

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Speaker 1: what they have been, because also far we've been nothing

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Speaker 1: for the scientific study for them. Listen to more Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern, and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com for more