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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Neukleman.

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Speaker 2: This is a production of the bear Grease podcast called

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Speaker 2: The bear Grease Render, where we render down, dive deeper,

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Speaker 2: and look behind the scenes of the actual bear Grease podcast,

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Speaker 2: presented by f h F Gear, American Maid, purpose built

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Speaker 2: hunting and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged

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Speaker 2: as the place as we explore.

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Speaker 3: Nobody cares if I'm making any noise.

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Speaker 4: Your head.

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Speaker 1: You feel like what a fourth wheel?

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Speaker 5: No, no, Josh, wheel turns a tricycling No.

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Speaker 1: Josh, You're more like a spear.

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Speaker 2: Kind of like right on the back of the balls

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Speaker 2: there and Brent falls off.

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Speaker 6: I just.

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Speaker 2: Man, So we're running. This is like, this is like

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Speaker 2: a skeleton crew the bear Grease. We've got four folks here.

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Speaker 2: We have maybe one of the best mystery guests of

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Speaker 2: all time though on the bear Grease Render for real.

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Speaker 2: So I got Brent here, I got Josh Landbridge spillmaker here,

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Speaker 2: who sounds.

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Speaker 1: Like a hold on back, Well, it's not me, turn it.

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Speaker 6: You got it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, say something.

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Speaker 5: Now something now give us the snort. My nose is

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Speaker 5: pretty big.

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Speaker 1: Pullet pullet out like this right there. Yeah, that's it's

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Speaker 1: the first time I've ever done this.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's hear your snort.

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Speaker 6: There's no way to get it anywhere. Sorry, feel I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: You're like a like a mule, I have like the

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Speaker 4: Britney spears circle mid to thousands like heads, you know

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Speaker 4: what I mean, Brooks.

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Speaker 2: Right, So when I'm when I'm riding a mule, I

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Speaker 2: have a mechanism that I can use, a physical mechanism

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Speaker 2: I can use to tell how how worked up they are,

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Speaker 2: how much physical energy they're exerting, and how close they

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Speaker 2: are to their maximum output and haloton. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 2: probably a lot like your peloton nostral flare when you

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Speaker 2: really I'll look at a mule's nose and if his

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Speaker 2: nose is just kind of like slightly pulsating, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: he's got a lot more put the spurs to it,

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Speaker 2: you know. Let's go up the mountain when they get

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Speaker 2: to just like when when when the when the nostrils

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Speaker 2: are flaring out, like getting like a half to three

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Speaker 2: quarters of an inch bigger than the usual, and they're

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Speaker 2: moving at like one inflation per second, like.

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Speaker 3: They've maxed out.

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Speaker 1: Maybe given break, maybe you're.

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Speaker 4: Hitting rev limit or on your mule.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's like that's like pushing into like forty

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Speaker 2: five hundred rpm. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So mystery guests we have here today is the crabber himself,

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Speaker 2: Luton McFadden.

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Speaker 6: He is a crabber.

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Speaker 1: He and I ain't no crab You ain't no crabber.

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Speaker 4: I ain't no mule skinner.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're more of a mule skinner than I'm a crabber,

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Speaker 2: because you rode a mule yesterday for probably a nine miles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, had to go.

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Speaker 4: It was great, no problems with your first time. It

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Speaker 4: was my first time riding any any animal. Oh yeah, yep.

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Speaker 3: Well I watched the video, thought it was he's pretty solid.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he did good. Were you Were you nervous

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Speaker 1: at all?

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Speaker 4: Not really, to be honest, because that's what why I think.

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Speaker 4: I'm just maybe I'm a little too dumb to be nervous.

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Speaker 4: It just looked about that situation. It just seemed, uh,

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Speaker 4: they seemed nice enough, you know what I mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: all right, I trust him.

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Speaker 5: You get thrown out of off a mule, all you

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Speaker 5: gotta do is get up and get back on him.

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Speaker 5: You get thrown out of a boat, then you got

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Speaker 5: to swim. It's got a hold a whole lot.

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Speaker 2: Of Now we could we could get into a bait

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Speaker 2: on the debate on like which one.

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Speaker 1: Would be worse.

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Speaker 6: I'm trying to give him his props. Man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well true story.

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Speaker 2: The I told Luke about a story of a young

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Speaker 2: man that rode with me the other day that had

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Speaker 2: like a zero, like if they're on the scale of

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Speaker 2: one to ten of just knowledge of equine animals, like

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Speaker 2: he would be like minus one, and.

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Speaker 6: Which end is the he was?

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Speaker 4: He?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was like shouldn't his feet be pointed

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Speaker 2: outwards on his belly?

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Speaker 1: He he was.

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Speaker 2: So and I'm gonna use this word it's not derogatory

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Speaker 2: towards him, but like almost naive.

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Speaker 1: He just jumped up on that mule and was like

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Speaker 1: so relaxed.

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Speaker 2: And what I was trying to tell Luke is that

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Speaker 2: an animal picks up on the energy. I don't care

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Speaker 2: if you're a NEUROSCIENTI and uh and think this earth

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Speaker 2: is just like natural physics. Man, there is there is

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Speaker 2: something deep going on inside a horsemanship that that's very

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Speaker 2: natural and there's a scientific explanation for it. But that

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Speaker 2: animal is picking up what you're putting out if you're tense, fearful,

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Speaker 2: it feels it, it knows it, and it translates to

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Speaker 2: that animal if you're just like totally relaxed. Because I

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Speaker 2: put this young man on a mule that's usually pretty

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Speaker 2: hopped up Izzy and Is he's a great mule, very

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Speaker 2: much to a finished meal, thousands of miles, never done

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Speaker 2: anything wrong, but she's hard to handle. Like, you wouldn't

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Speaker 2: put Mema on Izzy, right, Uh, Izzy would just she

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Speaker 2: wouldn't hurt her, but well she probably would she could

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Speaker 2: because she might, you know, not buck her off, but

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Speaker 2: just kind of get out of control a little bit.

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Speaker 2: And so I put him on there, and I was

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Speaker 2: actually a little nervous about it, but he was a

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Speaker 2: strapping young lady.

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Speaker 1: Well it all comes out.

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Speaker 2: This was before that, This was this was before that.

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Speaker 2: And so I put him on there and and he

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Speaker 2: was so he was so relaxed. Is he was relaxed,

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Speaker 2: And I mean he just rode, We rode all over

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Speaker 2: the place and totally fine.

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Speaker 1: That's what Luke teld me. He did. He was just like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is no big deal.

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Speaker 4: So I didn't ignorance, is bliss.

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Speaker 3: When I did notice on the video when they got

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Speaker 3: mid stream, there was a little bit of well is

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Speaker 3: he tripped? Yeah, and and Luke's eyes got a little bigger,

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Speaker 3: but that was the only expression that he had, and

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Speaker 3: he just like, all right, we'll just keep going.

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Speaker 4: Was that when we were crossing the river? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: she tripped and she tripped, and I thought, oh boy,

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Speaker 4: that we got about to get our cold plunge in

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Speaker 4: for the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would have been awesome.

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Speaker 4: Well, hey, before we get to start, I have something

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Speaker 4: for you guys, For each of you, I've brought from Maryland. Uh.

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Speaker 4: I also smuggled on the airplane. It was not quite

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Speaker 4: as hard as the live crabs, but it was had

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Speaker 4: its own different challenges, but they did make it here.

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Speaker 4: I have one for each of you. I'll explain after

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Speaker 4: I give it to you.

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Speaker 1: Here you go, Oh, I can't what, Brent, what's your guess?

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Speaker 6: I don't know. He's taking off his shoes.

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Speaker 1: Don't don't. Don't show it over here, but don't show.

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Speaker 6: It to what's my guess? It could be crap. Oh,

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Speaker 6: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea, like, not even a single idea.

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Speaker 1: If this is ah, I know what it is. I

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Speaker 1: know I felt it now.

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Speaker 6: If this is a dead fish wrapped up in newspaper,

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Speaker 6: I know I'm a goner.

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Speaker 4: I know it is all right, so they're wrapped up

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Speaker 4: in newspaper. But this is a Maryland tablecloth.

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Speaker 6: He this is real.

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Speaker 1: This is a this is a tell me what this is.

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Speaker 4: That's we call that a bluebell or blackhead duck decoy.

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Speaker 4: You have a canvas back, Brent, Oh, listen, these are

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Speaker 4: not any duck decoys, all right, these are so you

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Speaker 4: you guys just did your book on market hunting deer

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Speaker 4: right in America. Yes, so the Chesapeake Bay where I'm

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Speaker 4: from had a long stretch of history where market hunting

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Speaker 4: ducks was a huge part of culture and you know, industry.

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Speaker 4: So these decoys and then you know, so that went

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Speaker 4: from eighteen hundred to eighteen or nineteen eighteen was market

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Speaker 4: hunting when it was legal. Then nineteen eighteen they outlawed it.

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Speaker 4: So then there was a culture of outlaw market gunning.

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Speaker 4: So these decoys are actually from between nineteen eighteen, after

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Speaker 4: nineteen eighteen, but before nineteen thirty. These are actual outlaw

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Speaker 4: wow market gunning.

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Speaker 1: D Man.

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Speaker 5: Let me tell you my brother right now, Tim is

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Speaker 5: he's doing a double backflip right now, and he don't

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Speaker 5: know why because I'm holding this and to a duck guide.

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Speaker 6: Man, this right here is.

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Speaker 4: It's history man, and those are made right you know?

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Speaker 1: Do you think this is a hand carved?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 4: I know that.

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Speaker 1: I know that.

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Speaker 4: I could tell you. I I have done some research

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Speaker 4: on both of these, and I can tell you who

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Speaker 4: made that one. I don't know who made this one,

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Speaker 4: but that they're from rock Hall, Maryland, which is right

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Speaker 4: across the bay from me. It's a crab out of

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Speaker 4: rock Hall sometimes. And so that the camsback you have, Brent,

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Speaker 4: is likely turned down on a gun lathe from like

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Speaker 4: World War One or what I know, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: not that great whatever, like an old period military gun

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Speaker 4: lay that they would these guys would get ahold of

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Speaker 4: so they would turn some decoy bodies like that one

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Speaker 4: is likely turned on a lathe and then finished with

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Speaker 4: a spec I don't know they were kind of using whatever,

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Speaker 4: but that one.

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Speaker 3: I think bass would.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I know that's common these days. I don't couldn't

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Speaker 4: tell you what these are made out of.

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Speaker 1: It's a heavy wood.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So that one that you have is likely hatchet

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Speaker 4: carved and then finished with a draw knife. They would

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Speaker 4: take a block and they would carve it with a hatchet.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And then they.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you could have given this to the people that would.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate it more.

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Speaker 4: And that see, there is going in the museum. There's

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Speaker 4: a part of me that hates to take history from

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Speaker 4: where it's originated. It's lived its entire life, you know,

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Speaker 4: in within ten miles of where I live at, you know, forever,

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Speaker 4: and there's a lot of history with these two things.

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Speaker 4: But I know that you guys, if anybody will appreciate

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Speaker 4: it and take care of it, you know it's going

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Speaker 4: to be you, guys. What a gift dude, and I have.

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Speaker 2: This is like, this is about as good a spot

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Speaker 2: on a gift as could be given.

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Speaker 3: I would suggest not eating those paint chips though.

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Speaker 1: So there's a little lead in those paint hips.

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Speaker 4: Those I'm sure you know what those are, but those

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Speaker 4: are brass shotgun shelves, and.

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Speaker 1: So those describe what it looks like.

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Speaker 4: It looks like a twelve gage shell, but it's just made.

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Speaker 2: It looks like a twelve It looks like a spent

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Speaker 2: twelve gage casing, but it's brass.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the whole thing's brass. And so the exact section

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Speaker 4: of one inch brass pipe. Those are earlier than the decoys.

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Speaker 4: So those are from somewhere between nineteen hundred and nineteen ten.

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Speaker 4: Those are from allegedly from the guy got them from

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Speaker 4: and the research I've done. And those were very, very

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Speaker 4: common with the market gunners because they could reload them

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Speaker 4: and shells were expensive, so they would use these brass shells.

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Speaker 6: That they could.

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Speaker 5: They used to call them Saint Louis too's the shoot

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Speaker 5: number two shot at them when they would head rake them,

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Speaker 5: you know across the bay.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Boy, they used to hunt these things with punt guns.

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Speaker 4: You know, that would really be a cool thing. You know,

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Speaker 4: these like ten foot long shotguns where they would pour

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Speaker 4: like two pounds a shot and then they stolling boat

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Speaker 4: and take out the whole flock and a roost.

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Speaker 1: That man, Wow, that's incredible.

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Speaker 5: You could see the knife cuts on that on that cavat.

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Speaker 1: So it's a blue belt.

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Speaker 2: Now bluebell is like a duck that people want to

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Speaker 2: kill up there.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah. Canvas backs are kind of the king

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Speaker 4: of the Chesapeake, you know, been known for that. But

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Speaker 4: the blue bills, I mean, that's what you know, that's

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Speaker 4: like number two. Really there's a lot of the round

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Speaker 4: so that is awesome. It's likely that these have been

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Speaker 4: reheaded since then, but I mean they would that once

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Speaker 4: kind of got a cracked head, you know, they they

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Speaker 4: would carve the bodies. They put twenty heads on them

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Speaker 4: in their life because they would just break off. There's

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Speaker 4: actually even I was looking them over and there's a

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Speaker 4: couple of spots where they're shot in these decoys, which

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Speaker 4: I think, I think, you know, like and I know

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Speaker 4: they don't look.

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Speaker 2: Like much, but there's a shoe right in that One's

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Speaker 2: a no, dude, that's gonna hang in the museum.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna these things have seen things that I hope

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Speaker 4: that we will see again, but it's unlikely.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 1: Just cool, Okay.

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Speaker 2: I have a gift for you, And this is not

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Speaker 2: a retaliate, retaliatory gift. This is not I was gonna

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Speaker 2: do this before I knew these were here, and in

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Speaker 2: a way it's a gift from me, Josh and Brent

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Speaker 2: oh Man.

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Speaker 3: These things are getting scarce, man.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is a genuine plot Hound treed Ozark Mountain

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Speaker 2: Killed custom one size fits all raccoon hat made by

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Speaker 2: Josh Lambridge spilmmaker, that's a that's a so my my

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Speaker 2: good dog, Fern Treed that coon. The last guy gave

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Speaker 2: one to Well, I gave one to Cam Haynes. Cameron Haynes,

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Speaker 2: and he asked me if I killed it, and I

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Speaker 2: said probably. And the reason it was probably is because

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Speaker 2: there was probably three or four kids over each that

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Speaker 2: year that may have shot it. But that is a

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Speaker 2: genuine Arkansas trash hound.

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Speaker 1: Treed treasure hat.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much. That is awesome.

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Speaker 1: You might you might need a fur hat up there.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no I might. I think I'm just gonna

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Speaker 4: wear it to the airport, you know.

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Speaker 1: Man Like, Hey, if t s A tries to take

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Speaker 1: that from you, call.

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Speaker 4: Us, I know. No, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 6: That is.

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Speaker 4: That is amazing. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Hey, it's the Duck decoys. Incredible. So if you don't

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Speaker 1: know Luke, all you gotta do is just look up Luke.

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Speaker 3: L into your search, into your Instagram search.

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Speaker 1: Just say.

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Speaker 2: Here he goes Luke McFadden, Luke Skywalker's second Luke Skywalker,

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Speaker 2: Luke uh Luca, donna check he might come up. NBA

295
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Speaker 2: guy scored sixty points. He ain't no grabber no, so, uh,

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Speaker 2: Luke has a big TikTok. You kind of got TikTok

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Speaker 2: was like your thing there for a while.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely started on TikTok and it kind of spread

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Speaker 4: across all plans form, So now you know TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's what I've been putting a lot of time into.

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Speaker 4: You're a grabber, Yeah, yep, it's it's what I do

303
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Speaker 4: full time grabber.

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Speaker 2: And so you just give me like a like a

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Speaker 2: short overview of your business, like you're catching crabs and

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Speaker 2: then you're selling them direct people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yep. So I'm twenty seven. I started when I

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Speaker 4: was eighteen on my own boat and everything, and I

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Speaker 4: sold to wholesale you know, middlemen for the first seven years,

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Speaker 4: and then I tried to get into you know, retail,

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Speaker 4: which is kind of how I got into the social

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Speaker 4: media stuff. I was trying to figure out, you know,

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Speaker 4: find a market for my product really, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean, just kind of figure out a way to

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Speaker 4: market it better and whatever else. So end up selling

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Speaker 4: a direct customer and so I've been doing that for

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Speaker 4: the past two years and it's growing, you know, which

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Speaker 4: is a great problem to have. But yeah, no, I'm

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Speaker 4: a full time waterman on the bay and you.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about smuggling those live crabs. So, like two

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Speaker 2: days before he came down here, we're at Arkansas at

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Speaker 2: the Global headquarters.

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Speaker 1: I was like, hey, could you bring some crab down here?

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Speaker 2: I mean, if if I was going somewhere, I could

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Speaker 2: see somebody saying, hey, would you bring some bear grease

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Speaker 2: or some bear me and I would be like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just my bear grease is a little bit harder to.

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Speaker 2: Come by, but I would I'd be like sure. And

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Speaker 2: so I texted Luke and I said, Hey, what are

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Speaker 2: the chances you could bring some crab? And he said,

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Speaker 2: like like frozen crab or like live crabs. And I

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Speaker 2: was like, well, I don't even know what I'm asking for,

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Speaker 2: you tell me, but live crabs sound pretty good. And

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Speaker 2: it went something like that, and so what did you do?

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Speaker 4: Well, I like a challenge, you know, so I uh,

336
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Speaker 4: and I'm in the you know, I make videos. So

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Speaker 4: I was like, you know, what would be an awesome thing,

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Speaker 4: whether it went really well or really bad, is if

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Speaker 4: I tried to get like live crabs you guys on

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Speaker 4: the airplane and not like check them, like carry them

341
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Speaker 4: on the airplane with me, and I was like, I

342
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Speaker 4: don't know if you can do that. They won't let

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Speaker 4: you bring a bottle of shampoo. But I was like,

344
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Speaker 4: then it be funny either way, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Like, did you go ahead?

346
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Speaker 1: Keep going?

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Speaker 4: And I was doing this stuff before I even started

348
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Speaker 4: social media. I'm the kind of guy will go the

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Speaker 4: extra mile for a laugh for me or somebody else.

350
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Speaker 4: So I was like, I just thought it would be,

351
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Speaker 4: you know, an interesting thing to try anyway, So I, uh, yeah, No,

352
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Speaker 4: I got like a Duffel bag and I built a

353
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Speaker 4: cooler inside the Duffel bag, put the crabs in there,

354
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Speaker 4: and then carried them on the airplane. So I have

355
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Speaker 4: some pictures of me and my crabs on the.

356
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Speaker 3: Crabs through the scanner. Did no one just say like, uh,

357
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 3: can you open that up for me?

358
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Speaker 4: Surprisingly no, I put them through the you know, the

359
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Speaker 4: X ray machine.

360
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Speaker 1: But they'll they'll stop a pair of fingernail clippers.

361
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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly exactly, but they I seen it go through

362
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Speaker 4: and then it stopped. In my heart, I was like,

363
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 4: oh no, and then it went back and then it

364
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 4: went through, and I seen the lady like pull the

365
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 4: screen a little closer to her face, and it was

366
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Speaker 4: like four thirty in the morning. So I was like,

367
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,000
Speaker 4: I was like, there's either chance they're gonna be really

368
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 4: grumpy and they're gonna give you a hard time, or

369
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 4: they're gonna be like it's too early for this. It

370
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,840
Speaker 4: was just mariling things like whatever, just like and then

371
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,879
Speaker 4: it went the third time and it went through. I

372
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,719
Speaker 4: was like, oh, we're good, and so I got them

373
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Speaker 4: behind security and then the only issues I did have

374
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Speaker 4: was trying to carry them on the actual airplane. They

375
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 4: were gonna try to make me check them there for.

376
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Speaker 1: That was a size that was a size issue.

377
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Speaker 4: They didn't even know what was.

378
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,640
Speaker 2: In it, you know what I mean, Like they told them, hey,

379
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 2: that bag's too big, and then what Yeah, so she

380
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 2: gave me a hard time.

381
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Speaker 4: She gave me real hard time. And I was like,

382
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 4: you know, I can't check it, you know, I can't.

383
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 4: You can't, just like it's got to stay upright, and

384
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 4: and she's like why. I was like, well, you know,

385
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,919
Speaker 4: there's like it's full of seafoods. She's like okay. I

386
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 4: was like, like live seafoods.

387
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,520
Speaker 2: You know, if you turn turned seafood over, it pours

388
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 2: out that's right right.

389
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:56,840
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't want to be you know,

390
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 4: carrying this. That was my first leg of the journey.

391
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't want to have be carried.

392
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 4: That was in Baltimore, actually that I was, you know,

393
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 4: having the having the hard time getting on the airplane.

394
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 4: So you know, after some heated discussion, uh and some

395
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 4: other things, I finally did get it on the airplane

396
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 4: with me and into the overhead compartment. They made them

397
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 4: here and only two crabs died. I couldn't believe it.

398
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 4: You think, I think we had about three dozen dozen.

399
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 4: I was expecting for to, you know, hope. I was

400
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 4: hoping to get about, you know, at least fifty percent

401
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,560
Speaker 4: here alive and well. But I tell you what, man

402
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 4: complimentary drinks. You know, on the plane, the crabs were good,

403
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,439
Speaker 4: you know, give them some snacks. They were just fine.

404
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 6: You know.

405
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah they do, yeah they do. Level window seat.

406
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 4: I do have a picture of me and my crab

407
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 4: seeing the world together. These crabs have seen things other

408
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:52,960
Speaker 4: crabs could never drink.

409
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: Did do you have somebody sitting by you when you

410
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 1: pulled that one out?

411
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 4: I did, and it was it was awkward. It was

412
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 4: like but the guy kind of just like.

413
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: It was just okay.

414
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,560
Speaker 2: There's multiple kind of interactions that you have with someone

415
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 2: that sister be on a plane. Yeah, there's like the

416
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 2: no look, you know, there's like multiple options. There's the

417
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 2: no look, no look, no talk. It's just like imaginary

418
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 2: wall ignorance is bliss, like, let's not do this, We're

419
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 2: just and then and then there's the kind of the

420
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 2: southern like nice guy, like anybody you set with you

421
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,400
Speaker 2: need to greet them, and and where were you at

422
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 2: on this.

423
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 4: Uh, you know in Baltimore. That's not really it's more

424
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 4: the you know, I'm I'm.

425
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 1: The Baltimore stank guy.

426
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm upset that you have to be even on

427
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,000
Speaker 4: the same airplane, even if you cure cancer, like that

428
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 4: kind of metality.

429
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,280
Speaker 1: So you didn't talk to this person. No, I didn't

430
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: say anything.

431
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 4: It's kind of just best to uh, you know, I

432
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 4: just kind of went about my business and well, you

433
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,160
Speaker 4: know what, I'm some there's there's days were you're that guy,

434
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 4: you know, and these are becoming more and more frequent

435
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: with my life, oddly enough. But I was just that guy,

436
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 4: that guy that had a crab.

437
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 1: So you pulled a crab out the guy beside you

438
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 1: acknowledged it.

439
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 4: He kind of just I think that he's he saw it.

440
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,439
Speaker 4: You know, he looked and he was just kind of

441
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 4: like I he kind of acknowledged that he saw it,

442
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 4: because I saw his demeanor change and then he just

443
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,880
Speaker 4: kind of like looked back forward and closed his eyes.

444
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 4: I was like, I wonder, it's like it's so early

445
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 4: in the morning. Maybe this guy thinks like, there's no

446
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 4: way I just saw this crab on. Yeah, And then

447
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 4: I wonder.

448
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: If he thought it was like cooked seafood and he

449
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: was like.

450
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: Oh wow, or like a guy beside me he's cracking crabs, right.

451
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 4: See. That would have been funny to bring crab, you know,

452
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 4: cook crabs and ate him on you eat him on

453
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 4: the airplane on the way home. That would have well.

454
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 2: So when he got him here, Josh, we did a

455
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: big crab boil.

456
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 1: We had steam.

457
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 2: Oh some hate mail in Maryland. The most tragic thing

458
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 2: about the whole scene, though, is that Clay made his

459
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 2: famous regionally famous coast law.

460
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: You know, can you confirm to them that it's regionally famous.

461
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 3: It's got saliv every ca It's going to show up

462
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 3: every wedding on the newcom.

463
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: Farments even hand chopped the cabbage after Yeah, it's a

464
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 2: long story. I put it in the refrigerator to chill. Yeah,

465
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: you do that with Josh, don't give me a.

466
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 6: Chilling.

467
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: And so we then we go steam our crab and

468
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 2: we have this huge meal and we leave the coast

469
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: law in.

470
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 1: The fridge.

471
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 2: Some of Clay's famous coast law on the render before

472
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: we end today.

473
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, that's a joke, but he got excited. So

474
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: we started. Tell us how you get how steam crab?

475
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 4: We just put him in a you know, in a

476
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 4: pot probably like like a canning pot or something. Yeah, whatever,

477
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 4: we use what we got, you know what I mean,

478
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 4: and put some water and vinegar in the bottom.

479
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 3: And what's the vinegar do?

480
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 4: The vinegar actually makes them easier to pick, so it

481
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 4: keeps the meat from sticking to the shell so bad.

482
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 6: Interesting.

483
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, So like if you use like I've heard of

484
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 4: guys using like sea water, not chesbeake bay water, but

485
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 4: like seawater to steam seafood and stuff. We're putting seasoning

486
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 4: with salt in it in the water and that seems

487
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 4: like a great concept, but it makes the meat stick

488
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: to the shell work, So if you put a little

489
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: white vinegar in there, maybe like one third part white vinegar,

490
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 4: you know, it'll it'll just water.

491
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 6: And how they figured it out.

492
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: I was about to say something.

493
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 6: Okay, give me that diesel. Yeah yeah, how about some

494
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 6: w forty No, it didn't work either. What we got

495
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 6: left here's some white vinegar.

496
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 4: It's like the same guy that figured out you could

497
00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 4: eat a crab.

498
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: And who was the guy that decided that it didn't

499
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: stick to the shell?

500
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: Bad?

501
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: I mean probably the guy selling vinegar.

502
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because the stuff we cooked in vinegar, I'd

503
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 2: say the meat stuck.

504
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 6: To the shell last night. I mean when we ate it.

505
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of what happens.

506
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does a little bit. But I'm telling you

507
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 4: it can be like there's a lot of times where

508
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,679
Speaker 4: you're trying to get it and it's like it's like

509
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 4: the meat stuck to itself. That's like stuck to the

510
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 4: It's hard to describe, but I gave you too. You

511
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 4: could probably pick I don't know, we may have to drive.

512
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 2: These are blue crabs, and ironically these actually probably came

513
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 2: from Louisiana.

514
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, Maryland blue crab season is closed right.

515
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 2: Now, so you you but they shipped them live from

516
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 2: Louisiana to Maryland, and then you brought them from Maryland

517
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: to Arkansas.

518
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 4: Well traveled.

519
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: These are blue crabs.

520
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: What's the scientific name of them calling next is sapitus.

521
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: And so the males are how big males?

522
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 4: I mean the i'll get up to I mean I've

523
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 4: caught like the biggest one I've caught probably is like

524
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 4: nine inches point to point across the carapas, which is

525
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 4: a giant I mean, that's a massive crab. Usually when

526
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 4: they get that mount I didn't, but I have seen

527
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,119
Speaker 4: mounted crabs, but I don't have amount of crab that

528
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 4: would be pretty cool though I sold it, you know.

529
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 4: But uh yeah, So you know, they get that big

530
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 4: and usually the thing that gets them is either a

531
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 4: waterman or they you know, they die a shell rot.

532
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 4: They get so big they can't shit. They don't have

533
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 4: the energy shed their show anymore, like males will in

534
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 4: theory just keep growing and growing and growing. Oh really,

535
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,159
Speaker 4: females once they shed from an immature female to a

536
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 4: mature female, they never That crab never sheds again.

537
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: Interesting, I'm surprised that in.

538
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: Like water folklore, there's not a giant crab somewhere like.

539
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: A whale or a squid. Six foot crab, well, I

540
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: mean no, like a twenty foot crab. Oh like there

541
00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: could be.

542
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 4: I mean the thing is, you know, I use crab

543
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 4: pots instead of like an alternative method to catching crabs

544
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 4: and Maryland be like a trout line where the crab

545
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 4: is just holding onto a piece of bait and then

546
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 4: you're driving a boat along the line and you put

547
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 4: like you have a hook over the side. You put

548
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 4: the line over the hook and you're just driving along

549
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 4: it and the crabs will hold onto the bait till

550
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 4: you get to the surface and then you dip them

551
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 4: off the line with a net.

552
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: Oh wow.

553
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,199
Speaker 4: So in a crab pot you can only catch a

554
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: crab that will fit through them, so they catch some

555
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 4: real giants. You know. Trout lining because it's anything that

556
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 4: can hold, you just don't catch as many. Well, there's

557
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: just different areas you can go. And you know, I

558
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 4: mean when you're doing on a really large scale like

559
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 4: what I'm doing, you know, you're fishing up to fourteen

560
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 4: hundred crab pots when I'm have two license. Sometimes, you know,

561
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: crab potton is kind of the way that you would go,

562
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 4: you know, to do it on a really big scale.

563
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: I see, so Luke.

564
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: When I was a boy, I grew up on the Gulf,

565
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 3: we used to go crabbing.

566
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 4: Uh huh.

567
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 3: We had my uncle had two crab pots and then

568
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 3: we just take the lines where we put the meat

569
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: through and we'd pitch them out there and we'd catch

570
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 3: blue blue crabs there near to Alveston.

571
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to.

572
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: They're all over the East Coast the so blue crabs

573
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: are Are they all over the world or just.

574
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: I mean America.

575
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 4: I know they have them in South America and Central America.

576
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: Same same species, I believe.

577
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 4: So I've never been there to witness it, but I

578
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 4: do think they do. I hear they don't get as big.

579
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 4: But you know with East Coast going through, there's a

580
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 4: lot of ecological change kind of going on in the northeast,

581
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 4: you know, of the East Coast. So, I mean they're

582
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 4: even finding blue crabs in Maine, you know, I know,

583
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 4: guys that lobster and that.

584
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like I figured they were already there.

585
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: They're not.

586
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 4: They're not, No, they're not, but they're starting to show up.

587
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 2: It's a southern Chesapeake Bay is the northern range of

588
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: the blue.

589
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 4: Crab historically, as you know, yeah, like Chesapea Bay, Delaware Bay.

590
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,360
Speaker 4: You know, I know they have some in New York

591
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 4: and all, but it was kind of like from what

592
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 4: I understand, you know, that was kind of as far north,

593
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 4: like you know, there's not a fishery for them in

594
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 4: New York. Well there, I think maybe there.

595
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 2: Is just a little caveat if if the Arkansas Game

596
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: and Fish finds some blue crab in the Arkansas River,

597
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 2: it didn't.

598
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 4: Have anything to do with us, right right, So yeah,

599
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 4: like I guess there is a fishery for blue crabs

600
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 4: in New York. I don't know a ton about it,

601
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 4: but you know, that was kind of like as far

602
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 4: north really find them.

603
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: But so when you eat these things, there was you

604
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: said something when we started, you said, blue crabs are

605
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 2: the only thing you could starve while eating. Yeah, it's

606
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: a surprising, surprisingly small amount of meat on a pretty

607
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: big looking crab.

608
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: Would you have said that, Joha?

609
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: But but once you get into it, you realize it's

610
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: the it's the it's the social aspect, and the meat

611
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: is very very good and you have to work for it.

612
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: So it's kind of it's fun.

613
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: Generally you supplement the crab with coleslaw.

614
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so just quickly tell me how you'd break down

615
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: crab like to eat it.

616
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: So if you just had to describe it to somebody

617
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: in like a minute.

618
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, break the claws off, you get into the claws,

619
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 4: eat that pretty pain free. Then pick the apron off

620
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 4: the bat, flip it over.

621
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: It's like the hood.

622
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, uh yeah.

623
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 3: The bonnet is the bonnet something that's just reproductive.

624
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 2: One of my don't let this this might indicate my

625
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: socioeconomic status, but one of my biggest interactions with seafoods

626
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: has been Captain D's and that Captain D's when you

627
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: get when you get the seafood platter, it actually has

628
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 2: a real crab shell stuffed with like you know, crabs

629
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: and crabs.

630
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: It's probably a real crab shell stuffed with like imitation crab.

631
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I wonder if that was a blue crab.

632
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 4: Possibly it was.

633
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: About it's about the size of it as big as

634
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: a mango.

635
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, probably a blue crab something like that from our

636
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: mango tree in the yard.

637
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 2: Carry on, Okay, so you take you take the the

638
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: top big part of the shell off.

639
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 4: Yep, yeah, you'll pull you'll pull the uh, you know,

640
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 4: the carapace off, and then you'll be left with the body.

641
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: You'll see the lungs and then kind of like the

642
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 4: guts in the center. You pull the guts out, looks

643
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 4: like ramen noodles. You know, you don't want to eat

644
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 4: the forbidden ramen noodles can, but I don't suggest it necessarily.

645
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: And then they have lungs on either side.

646
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: You'll pull that like gills, like fish gills, gills.

647
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 4: There's some kind of thing about it because they live. Yeah,

648
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: they look like gills. Pull them off. You don't really

649
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 4: want to eat them. And then I take the body,

650
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 4: break it in two pieces. You know, it'll split into

651
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 4: two even pieces, and then uh, you know, I usually

652
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 4: flip it over and you'll be able to see the

653
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 4: lines down the you know, the underside of the crab.

654
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 4: I'll kind of take my two thumbs and break them

655
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 4: along those lines, and then you can kind of crack

656
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: the top and then pull the meat out of all

657
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 4: the little compartments. You know. I like to keep it

658
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 4: still attached to the legs. It just gives you, you know,

659
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 4: for dipping and whatever else. There's a lot of times

660
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 4: we'll dip it.

661
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: But now that you're describing it and I've done it,

662
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: now it helps me to think about it like this.

663
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 2: The muscles. There are muscles attached to things that have

664
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: to move. Yeah, and there's a muscle attached to every leg.

665
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: So it's a it has eight legs, right, yeah, eight

666
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: legs and two pinchers something or maybe six. I don't

667
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: think it's eight legs, six legs, six legs.

668
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: It's got a lot.

669
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 4: I think he's got three legs, a swim fin, and

670
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 4: a pincher on each side, I believe.

671
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's four appendages. You ain't no craber, Yeah,

672
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: I ain't no crab. But like every leg has a

673
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: little tuft of meat, like a tiny little bit of meat,

674
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: and so you're basically cracking off that leg and pulling

675
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: it out so that meat kind of comes out with it,

676
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: and then you have this little little crab whole hand,

677
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 2: you know, handle of the leg, and then you dip

678
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: that in some mouth of butter, touch it into a

679
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: little little bit of a little seasoning that you have,

680
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 2: and then you eat it. And so you do that

681
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 2: with all the legs, and then you've cracked the claws,

682
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 2: which not all of them had claws.

683
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, well sometimes a lot of times the claws fall

684
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: off when you're steaming them, and all you know, they're

685
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: in there fighting, you know whatever. They don't go out

686
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 4: without a fight. You know, like in a restaurant when

687
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: you get crabs, a lot of times.

688
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: They like, can you turn up the heat of freezing? Right?

689
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 4: In a restaurant, they would either shock the crabs, electrocute them,

690
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 4: or ice them. You really like flash ice them. Usually

691
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 4: they electrocute them. Wow, right right, the merchant of crustacean death.

692
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 6: Uh.

693
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 4: But that's so that so when they see them, so

694
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 4: they don't fight in the pot animal ethics, well, I

695
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 4: mean maybe I don't know what I mean. I know

696
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: in the industry it's like so that because you know,

697
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 4: if you're if you're serving crabs at a restaurant, people

698
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 4: will complain sometimes they don't have all the claws even

699
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 4: if they're like there, they want a crab with all

700
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 4: the tendency.

701
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: So so you you say, I'm on, you shock them.

702
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a gladiator fight when you throw

703
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: them all on that pot and the lid on.

704
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we put the lid on and we had

705
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 4: some potatoes and corn on the top, and uh, I

706
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 4: think missus you said something about like it's moving.

707
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 6: There was.

708
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 4: The lid starts kind of moving a little bit. I

709
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 4: was like, yeah, it's it's just just we'll check.

710
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: In on them.

711
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: Like what I learned is that it's like extremely like

712
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: Luke said, it's a it's a full full contact sport.

713
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: Like you know, we had crabs everywhere. It's like you

714
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: have a huge pileist stuff. But at first, when I

715
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 2: was watching him do it, I was like, holy cow,

716
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: this is gonna be wild because he was like, don't

717
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 2: eat this, don't eat the lungs. There's there's what he

718
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 2: called the mustard in him, which is the fat which

719
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: just looks like this like pasty yell. I mean, it'd

720
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 2: be like you'd think, don't eat that, but it kind

721
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: of gets on everything and it's actually really good. So

722
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: there was nothing that I put in my mouth from

723
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 2: that crab it didn't taste incredible. So I kind of

724
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: got it. I was like, Oh, you don't have to

725
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 2: be afraid of anything. You just like go to town

726
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: and it was a it was great.

727
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 4: Full contact sport eating crabs for sure.

728
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, like eat like a big crawfish ball on steroids.

729
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: YEA, yeah, I can see. I can see how if

730
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: you really do what you were doing.

731
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 5: I mean, you just if you try not to make

732
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 5: a messrab how I'm outside or in the bathtub, because

733
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 5: that's you're gonna get it everywhere.

734
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 3: Luke, what's your record of eating crabs? How many crabs

735
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: have you eaten?

736
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, in one sitting at the I

737
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 4: don't know. I mean usually by the time i've you know,

738
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 4: if I really get it, you know, the tunnel vision

739
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 4: on eating the crabs, it's kind of like everything else

740
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: just kind of you know, so it's kind of like

741
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: you just kind of wake up in the zone covered

742
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 4: in old bay or ko seasoning.

743
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: And I can't remember what happened.

744
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 4: In Arkansas.

745
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: I remember bringing these on the plane.

746
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 3: Okay, if I'm going to do a crab boil for

747
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: family and friends, how many how many that's I'm sorry,

748
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 3: crab steam.

749
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 4: You don't do any crab family and friends.

750
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 3: How many crabs do I need to factor in per person?

751
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 4: I mean you could count on, like, you know, if

752
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 4: you're if if you're if your friends are from Maryland,

753
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 4: I would count on ten crabs man per person. Per person.

754
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: Oh wow, depending on the size. The size of the

755
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 4: crab makes all the difference. Of course, we didn't have

756
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 4: any giant extra jumbos because I was trying to can

757
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 4: only bring so many on the plane. I was trying

758
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 4: to get a little more in case some died.

759
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 5: I sent a picture of that to Michael Rose when

760
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 5: they were all let out on the table, you know,

761
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 5: his wife from Maryland, and she said, what's everybody else

762
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 5: going to eat?

763
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 4: Yeah? I would say if I'm eating like large crabs,

764
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 4: which are like my largest are six to six and

765
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 4: a half inches across the top, you know, I could

766
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: count on eating between ten and twelve myself. But I'm

767
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 4: a I'm a very efficient crab eater. You know, I don't.

768
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 4: I actually don't eat crabs that often. You know what

769
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 4: I mean. It's that's like Biggie Small's breaking his eighth

770
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,720
Speaker 4: crack commandment. Man, you can't get high on your own supply.

771
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: You know what I meant it.

772
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 3: That reference will play with a lot of bear grease.

773
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 6: All right, that's good. It was so good.

774
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: I was gonna say four crabs.

775
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: Okay.

776
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: After four crabs, I was like, can I just pay corbage?

777
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean, true story.

778
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 6: I ain't no crabber.

779
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 3: It was like, can you imagine steaming a deer hole

780
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 3: a deer, live deer eating with yours jumping out on

781
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 3: the table, don't give Yeah.

782
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 2: Great idea.

783
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 5: We'll be doing that next man.

784
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 2: I hate to change the topic from crabbing, but we

785
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: got some serious conversation to have here about a podcast

786
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 2: that I've been working on and excited about for probably

787
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: over a year.

788
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: Like the sequence of the way these things happen when

789
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: I do.

790
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: A series is you It's not always a year, but

791
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 2: usually I'm reading a book or doing something that's connected

792
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: to something that i'll will materialize much later. I think

793
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: last summer, maybe last spring, I started reading Roderick Nash's book.

794
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 1: Wilderness in the American mind. That book, this book was written.

795
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: Let me see what the copyright date is.

796
00:37:54,160 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: It's gonna blow your mind. This book first edition published

797
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven.

798
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 6: Oh wow.

799
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: This book is considered the quote unquote book of genesis of.

800
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: Let's see I'm looking for.

801
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 2: This book is a mandatory prelude to any modern treatment

802
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 2: of conservation problems. Here's another one when Roderck Gash, when

803
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 2: Roderick Nash's Wilderness in the American Mind first appeared in

804
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven. It was justly praised as the first

805
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 2: real idea book and environmental history. Indeed, a classic study

806
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 2: and greatly influenced. And that's not what I'm looking for.

807
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 2: This is the book of genesis of American wilderness. This guy,

808
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: this guy was a was a like getting his PhD

809
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty seven, wrote this book. When I read

810
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: this book, I cannot fathom what a human would have

811
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 2: to go through to gather the information he did and

812
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 2: cover it in such an incredible way. This is a

813
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: top five book for me in the world. Oh wow, Yeah,

814
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 2: like massively influential because it unveiled for me things that

815
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: were happening inside of me that I didn't know why.

816
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 2: And that's something I'm very interested in all areas of life.

817
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: I popped out of the womb.

818
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy nine in Arkansas, and I have this

819
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 2: view of the world, these ideas about different things. How

820
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: much of that did I come up with on my own?

821
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 2: How much of it I came up because of my

822
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 2: individual family. How much did I come up with it

823
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 2: because of the culture that I'm raised in. How much

824
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 2: did I come of it, come up with it because

825
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 2: I am an American, Like where does this stuff come from?

826
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: And to me, that's all real important because you will

827
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: live a life of deception if you think, I mean

828
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: this whole idea of being like a freethinker and like

829
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 2: we're these independent people that just came up with all

830
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: this stuff on our own.

831
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: And nobody tells me what to do.

832
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 2: I'm it's like, dude, you're a product of your culture

833
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 2: because your culture valued that. Your culture valued you saying

834
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: that you're the only one who ever thought of this,

835
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: and you're this autonomous man, and I love that. But

836
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: what I'm saying is that came from somewhere. This whole

837
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: idea of like rugged individualism of the American is.

838
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 5: You're influenced by everything is an influence, either positive or negative.

839
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: Well, and and a whole lot of the way that

840
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: we think.

841
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 3: That unless you're ste.

842
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: Well, we're gonna get to that.

843
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 3: No.

844
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: I I when when Rodert Nash started talking about wilderness,

845
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, yeah, And I had no idea

846
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: he was talking about all this deep history about Oh.

847
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 1: I mean this was way different than like the Donnie

848
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 1: Baker story.

849
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 2: I mean, like radically like if an alien came down

850
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: and analyzed this podcast, they.

851
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 1: Would be like two different people must.

852
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 2: Have made that for for for because it's like very different,

853
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: which I like. I like that it went from this

854
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: very perersonal, very personal story to something I don't view

855
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: it as academic, but it is philosophical, and philosophy not

856
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: being to me, philosophy is really functional because to have

857
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: an understanding of who you are, you have to kind

858
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: of know why. And I've always loved the idea of

859
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 2: wilderness but also wilderness with the capitol W.

860
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: But so this.

861
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: Book just specs it out and so much I got

862
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: to give Roderick Nash credit. So much of what I

863
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 2: talked about in this first episode came came from this book.

864
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 2: And I tried to get Roderick Nash, who's still alive,

865
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: he's in his eighties. Tried to get him on this

866
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: year podcast and he wouldn't. He wouldn't do it.

867
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: And I'm not afraid to say that because it's just

868
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: the truth.

869
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 6: But good.

870
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: I have a lot of respect for what he wrote.

871
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 2: But but holy smokes, did I have a cast of

872
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 2: characters though? Uh, Doctor Dan Flores, incredible guy. Uh just

873
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: came up with a new book called Wild New World.

874
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: He wrote kyot America. He wrote American Serengetti, which if

875
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 2: you haven't read American Serengetti, you ain't no crabber.

876
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: And there's not pictures, and I ain't read it most

877
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 4: crabbers probably.

878
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: American Serengetti is basically about the plis to Scene North America.

879
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: Just it's it's it. It's just mind boggling Britos. We're

880
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: gonna I had Koby Morehead came over here the other

881
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: day and told me how to make that battery pack

882
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: stop beeping, and I forgot what he said, so every

883
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: time it beats.

884
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 1: In this podcast, we're giving one of the listeners that

885
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: Coonskin had not true.

886
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: American Serengetti talks about Plice to Scene North America and

887
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: basically that we had more charismatic megafauna than even Africa.

888
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: What we looked at.

889
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: You know, we had we had the bison, We had

890
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: like multiple giant cats. We had horses, we had ground

891
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: two thousand pound giant groundsloth. We had cave bears, we

892
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: had dire wolves. I mean, it was it was like

893
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 2: a it was like Jurassic Park here. Anyway, Dan Floores

894
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: wrote a book on that.

895
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: He's number one.

896
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: Number two is doctor Sarah Dant. It's it's Dan's wife.

897
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: I think that's a I think the world knows that what.

898
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 3: Their dinner table conversation has probably got a.

899
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: Little they're like the most interesting people time.

900
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 2: So she she's a professor at Weaber University in Utah,

901
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: and she wrote this book called Losing Eden, which is

902
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: an environmental history of the West. It is like so

903
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: so much packed with deep human history on the landscape

904
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: of North America. Kind of mind blowing book too, And

905
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: so she's on there. And then Steve Ardella, who I'm

906
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: interested to see what y'all's take on the Steve Ardelli

907
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: section was. Steve's always great to have on He's He's

908
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: yeah great. And then one of my favorites, Hal Harry,

909
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: who Hal Harry and is a character. If you don't

910
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 2: know how then you ain't no crabber. But Hal Harry

911
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: and great guy.

912
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: Where to start?

913
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't you know you said that the

914
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 4: last the Donnie Baker This really aren't related, but I

915
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 4: mean it kind of is, though. I mean, you can't

916
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 4: tell me even though Donnie Bakery what he did, I mean,

917
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 4: he I guarante you know, he shared all the same

918
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 4: interests in the wild and the that we do, you know,

919
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 4: and that everybody else did. So really it's kind of

920
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 4: almost the origin story of the whole thing. You know.

921
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, starting you just had the Franks before

922
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 4: the beans little bit, you know what I'm saying.

923
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I don't think it's very.

924
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,800
Speaker 4: It's not that unrelated. It's like, you know, his desire

925
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 4: to be out in the wilderness and take to ear

926
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 4: and do whatever else, even though it went a little

927
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 4: sideways there for a minute. Yeah, you know, probably ideas.

928
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: So he he was.

929
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: Going to an area that had unmolested animals that were

930
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: easy to hunt.

931
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly me.

932
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 2: That was the most interesting thing. One of the most

933
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 2: interesting things in the podcast is.

934
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: That this what we now view as a love.

935
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 2: Of wilderness, and that's like federally preserving wilderness areas goes

936
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 2: back deep into our epigenetics, as Dan Flora has said,

937
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 2: when we loved places that were absent of humans because

938
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: we could go there and be successful hunting because the

939
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 2: animals were undisturbed.

940
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like wildly fascinating.

941
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 3: I feel like this podcast made me more contemplative about

942
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 3: it than I've ever been because I think I think

943
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 3: when you say the word wilderness, it does evoke an

944
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: emotional response to a lot of people. And I thought,

945
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: I thought, what is what is wilderness really? You know,

946
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: beyond the definition? What does it mean to me? Because

947
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 3: you know, we've we've traveled a lot with our kids

948
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 3: to national parks and whatnot, and you know, you see

949
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: the capital W wilderness and you kind of go out

950
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 3: there and you see the paved parking lot and you

951
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,280
Speaker 3: see all the trails, and you know the signs that say.

952
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: That wouldn't be Capital W wilderness, that would be a

953
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: national park.

954
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 3: Well national park, but we have seen wilderness areas and

955
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 3: it just you're like, that doesn't it is? I mean

956
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 3: if you can.

957
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: Drive it, yeah, so well you're talking about national parks.

958
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But but the the idea of wilderness is

959
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 3: to me is captivating with a side of terrifying, because

960
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 3: I thought.

961
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: You were going to say captivating with a capital C.

962
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 3: No, captivating like like I'm I'm I'm I am just

963
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 3: bewildered by it and I'm drawn to it. But at

964
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 3: the same time, there is that that aspect of of

965
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: like it's it's wild. I mean it is like it's

966
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: it's unpredictable. And uh, going back to what I talked

967
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 3: about this before. If we're going to talk about wilderness,

968
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 3: you can't talk about it without the movie The Wilderness Family.

969
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: And but you know, I think about that, that idea

970
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 3: of being dropped off in the middle of nowhere and

971
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 3: being forced to make something of it, and uh, there

972
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 3: there there are certain things like we talked about about

973
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 3: unmolested animals, but also at the same time, there is

974
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 3: a raw wildness about it. I thought that. I thought

975
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 3: the etymology of your your word there was fascinating.

976
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: I got chills listening to that yesterday in the truck

977
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: coming coming home from squirrel hunting.

978
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: So a stringer squirrels in the back truck.

979
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 6: I love it.

980
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: But I'm excited about I'm excited about hearing more about

981
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 3: it because it is it is a it is a

982
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: thing that is unique. I'd never thought about wilderness being

983
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 3: something that when you lose it, you don't get it back, right,

984
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 3: I'm not. It's hard to wrap your mind around let

985
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 3: it come back. Yeah, it's it's done. So we have

986
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: we have a potentially extinctible resource that really does need

987
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,319
Speaker 3: to be cared for, and so I appreciate the deep dive.

988
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's important to understand like this broader

989
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 2: scale of humanity, humans as a species coming out of

990
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,799
Speaker 2: being hunter gatherers, moving towards civilization, which civilization would be

991
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:44,360
Speaker 2: defined by agriculture and domestic animals and congregation of people

992
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: which would have increased birth rates, produced a lot of

993
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: more security. As people were coming out of wilderness into

994
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 2: that there was there was this this very long standing

995
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: human idea that wilderness was bad, even though we were

996
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: drawn to it as hunter gatherers to go into places

997
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: that were unexploited. When all of a sudden there was

998
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,640
Speaker 2: a new option, we were very interested in becoming. And again,

999
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: civilized is a politically incorrect term that I'm going to

1000
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,799
Speaker 2: use because we just have to to understand what we're

1001
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: talking about, you know, because when you say civilized, it

1002
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: insinuates that there are humans that live uncivilized lives, and

1003
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 2: so that's politically incorrect, but you understand what I'm saying. So,

1004
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: when all of a sudden the security of civilization was here,

1005
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 2: there was like, let's say, ninety nine percent of people

1006
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: were very interested in getting to that so that they

1007
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: didn't die when they were eighteen years old from starvation

1008
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: or from a wooly man.

1009
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: With tusk in the butt.

1010
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 4: You know, you'll have that.

1011
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: Took it right in.

1012
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 2: The tables shifted as civilization then became dominated the face

1013
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,399
Speaker 2: of the earth, and then all of a sudden, there's

1014
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: this artifact where we woke up in the eighteen hundred's,

1015
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 2: the Romantic era, and all of a sudden it became

1016
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: cool to love wilderness. So I mean, it's like this,

1017
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 2: like this sloshing from one side to the other. Wilderness

1018
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 2: is our enemy. We have to get to civilization. And

1019
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 2: then it became civilization is the enemy. That's what Threau

1020
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: and Emerson and mirror, and we have to get back

1021
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 2: to wilderness. And then today we live in a world

1022
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: that's so lopsided in civilization.

1023
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: There's those of us who.

1024
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 2: Are scrapping and wanting to interact with and go to

1025
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:51,720
Speaker 2: a place that's so such an anomaly across the face

1026
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 2: of the earth, where we could go and experience a

1027
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: place that people don't live.

1028
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: That is a way, you know, that's interesting.

1029
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 5: You think about you think about I'm sorry, well, you

1030
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 5: just think about the you talked about the romanticism of it,

1031
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 5: and in our realm where we work here, the majority

1032
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 5: of the products that we sell, that we offer for sale,

1033
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 5: that we use, are all geared to make going into.

1034
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 6: The wilderness easier. Yeah, you know, I mean that's how

1035
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 6: we make a living.

1036
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 5: Boots and water and backpacks and being lighter weight and

1037
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 5: being able to carry more stuff with you that you

1038
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 5: need to survive at a time out there. When back

1039
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 5: in those days it was hard, you know, you had to.

1040
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,359
Speaker 5: It was just a bigger struggle when and we're doing

1041
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 5: it now not for survival, but for pleasure, for fun,

1042
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 5: to feel that need that we have that we wake

1043
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 5: up that we long to get away from everything that's

1044
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 5: around us, all these light bulbs and stuff. You know,

1045
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 5: we all the time I'm here, we're working, we're hunting. Yesterday,

1046
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 5: I'm answering text messages and emails while I'm on the

1047
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 5: back of that mule. And we get out there when

1048
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 5: there's none of that. It's a whole different way to

1049
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 5: look at a sunrise, or or the way to look

1050
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 5: at riding down the road or walking down the road

1051
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 5: when you're so far removed from it. I had the

1052
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 5: thought that in there where. He said that it's in

1053
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 5: our nature to long for those places to go. And

1054
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 5: I may be I'm obviously paraphrasing what he said, but

1055
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 5: what I got out of what he was talking about

1056
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 5: was it's in our DNA and our genetic code to

1057
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 5: want to go to the wild place. My wife thinks

1058
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 5: if she's if we're in a town that doesn't have

1059
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 5: a target, that's about as wilderness as he gets.

1060
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: That's a wilderness there.

1061
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 6: She don't want any part of that.

1062
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 5: She wants to go to the opposite direction, so, you know,

1063
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 5: but she wouldn't like to go to in the middle

1064
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,439
Speaker 5: of living, in the middle of Baltimore, or even even

1065
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 5: in the middle of Little Rock that shit, that's too congestion.

1066
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 5: She wants somewhere in the happy medium that still got

1067
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 5: the security that you can go here and here and

1068
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 5: there with very little trouble. Me, on the other hand,

1069
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 5: give me a color lamp and a pocket full of

1070
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,799
Speaker 5: shelves and a shotgun and I'm gonna be fine just

1071
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 5: where I could get away from people.

1072
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 6: So there, at some point, you know, it was a pendulum.

1073
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 5: At some point, some folks still still followed that, yeah,

1074
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 5: that that want or that need to do something, and

1075
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 5: some folks didn't. I mean, they stopped at the edge.

1076
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 5: You know, this is far enough, but there's still others

1077
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 5: that want to go further out. And it had to

1078
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 5: be that way, or this country wouldn't have wouldn't be

1079
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 5: where it is now. Yeah, you know, with exploration, that

1080
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 5: was just something that I thought about.

1081
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 4: Luke, what do you think, you know, I just kind

1082
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 4: of had a thought about kind of the irity of

1083
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 4: like you were talking about, you know, human's desire to preserve,

1084
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 4: recognize and preserve wilderness and wild places. And it's kind

1085
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 4: of the same theme here is where everything is going

1086
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 4: so full circle, where like, in an effort to do that,

1087
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 4: we have places like Yellowstone, which I to me is

1088
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 4: the least wild wilderness that you could experience, you know

1089
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 4: what I mean, right right exactly, Like so it's sort

1090
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 4: of like it It's just I think it's just one

1091
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 4: of the common denominators of human nature, you know what

1092
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 4: I mean, the same thing that drives people like us

1093
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 4: to go experience places where there is no one else

1094
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 4: the same you know. That's that's what the people that

1095
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 4: discovered new continents and you know, Americas and whatever else

1096
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:45,479
Speaker 4: had in them you know what I mean. But there's

1097
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 4: always you know, I think it's getting kind of bred

1098
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 4: out of us, you know what I mean. It used

1099
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 4: to be one in ten people. Now it's one in

1100
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 4: a million people that want to go have that desire

1101
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 4: to like go out and see that. But you know,

1102
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,479
Speaker 4: I don't know my thought.

1103
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: You said something about scarcity earlier about how do you

1104
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: remember you said scarcity is the humans always gravit towards cavitite,

1105
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: towards what's scarce, and.

1106
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 4: So I kind of just won't what you can't have.

1107
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 4: I mean, nature is kind of like that.

1108
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: When we were forging a living out of the wilderness,

1109
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 2: we wanted more security. Then now that we're forging a

1110
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 2: living out of civilization, we want to reach back to

1111
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 2: something more wild.

1112
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 4: It's it's just I think humans desire to to to

1113
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 4: really just kind of want what is scarce and want

1114
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 4: what they kind of can't have. You know. It's like

1115
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 4: it's one of the downfalls of man. You know, it's

1116
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 4: one of the things that sets us apart animal.

1117
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 3: Which is in a sense the antithesis of wilderness, because

1118
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 3: the only way to keep wilderness wilderness is a bunch of.

1119
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: People out of it, you know what I mean.

1120
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like, well, you have these people who

1121
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 3: want it, but how many people being there makes it

1122
00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 3: not wilderness?

1123
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 6: Right right?

1124
00:55:58,360 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 4: That's why I would saying, where is the line?

1125
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: Will you guys are totally rooting episode two? I wasn't

1126
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 2: even going to bring it up.

1127
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: No.

1128
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's a major philosophical problem with wilderness. Yeah,

1129
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 2: is that wilderness is a wilderness because nobody's.

1130
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 4: There because you're not there exactly, So one as you

1131
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 4: go there, then is it still wilderness? And Okay, even

1132
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 4: though we have this natural desire just baked into us

1133
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 4: to experience you just.

1134
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 6: Listened to episode.

1135
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: Let's just now, let's go right to the next render.

1136
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 2: No that that we get into that pretty extensively about

1137
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 2: these issues with wilderness. And there's another big issue that

1138
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna bring up just yet unless one of

1139
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 2: you all leaks it out on ACT.

1140
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 4: I have this desire in me to do that drives

1141
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 4: me to do what I do for a living. You know,

1142
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 4: this is crab And it's like this kind of desire

1143
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 4: to be where people aren't, you know, where there's like

1144
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 4: an an like an even playing field between you and

1145
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,240
Speaker 4: nature in a way, you know what I mean, where

1146
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 4: like you know your your rules and you know, kind

1147
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 4: of man's societal boundaries don't apply to you know, like

1148
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 4: like the crabs, fish the bay where I'm at. It

1149
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 4: doesn't nothing, none of that matters, you know what I mean.

1150
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 4: That is all off the table. It's between you and

1151
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 4: you know and nature. You know what I mean. It's

1152
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 4: a wild place and I'm drawn to it just for

1153
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,640
Speaker 4: no It's just it's in me, you know what I mean.

1154
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 4: And so you know, I live in this in just

1155
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 4: blow like Baltimore City. I mean, there's ton people are

1156
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 4: nuts to butts there, you know, it's just we're jammed up.

1157
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 4: But I have this desire to get to the closest

1158
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,959
Speaker 4: place I can and spend the most amount of time there,

1159
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 4: even if it's a hundred times more work, you know,

1160
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 4: just because I have this thing baked into me for

1161
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 4: like this longing for wild things in wild places and lake.

1162
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 4: So I think it just kind of it's different for everybody.

1163
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 5: Of it because it's not a legacy thing with him,

1164
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 5: right right, He's like a first gen generation crabber in

1165
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 5: his family.

1166
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 6: So there's something there somewhere. Yeah.

1167
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: Well, and and your example is relevant to all of us,

1168
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 2: is that the idea of wilderness you can experience anywhere,

1169
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: like you and the Chesapeake Bay, which is not federal wilderness,

1170
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 2: with the Capitol w which is not wilderness by many definitions,

1171
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 2: but you're having that experience of like what hal Harry said,

1172
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 2: He said, wilderness is a feeling where you enter into

1173
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: a place that's no longer governed by the laws of men.

1174
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: You're governed by ancient laws and in it, boy, I

1175
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 2: mean that's for real.

1176
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 4: Like I ain't read that book, I promise, Well, but

1177
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 4: how Harry and said that on the podcast.

1178
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And.

1179
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 2: That's that is another critique of wilderness, Josh, is that.

1180
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: Dan Flora has talked about how we've sacralized.

1181
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 2: He said, a lot of different groups have sacralized wilderness

1182
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: to the point that you might get the idea that

1183
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 2: that tree out in your yard is not nature too.

1184
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: Did you see what I'm saying?

1185
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 2: Like you minimize, you minimize something that's wilderness. On my

1186
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: property right here, I could experience that feeling of wilderness.

1187
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of funny, right. I have a

1188
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 1: small piece of.

1189
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 2: Land and when I go to particular parts of it,

1190
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 2: it's the wildest part of the land that I have,

1191
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 2: which is not wilderness by any definition, but it feels

1192
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,800
Speaker 2: I have that feeling of this is this is a

1193
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 2: special place.

1194
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: This is furthest from my I.

1195
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 3: Mean, I feel I feel that way when I'm on

1196
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 3: the river, like I'm in a spot where not everybody

1197
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: can get to, you know, when I'm in my boat

1198
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 3: and I'm you know, cruising down there, that I have

1199
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 3: that feeling like of there is something wild and connects

1200
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 3: me to nature inside of it. That's just mine in

1201
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 3: the moment.

1202
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can experience, you know, I have been out

1203
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:28,080
Speaker 4: crabbing and I am experiencing, you know, that same thing. Well,

1204
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 4: there's a million dollar yacht going by me fifty feet away,

1205
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. So We're in the same place,

1206
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 4: doing the same thing. But I'm experiencing, you know, my

1207
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 4: idea of wilderness and this guy's probably just drinking michelob

1208
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 4: ultras at nine am, you know what I mean. So

1209
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 4: it's like you can it's just such a weird thing.

1210
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 4: It's like a totally separate you know, the feeling I

1211
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,960
Speaker 4: guess of wilderness and then you know actual wilderness too.

1212
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 4: I would guess probably two different podcasts.

1213
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 1: Really, well, you may have tapped into episode three there.

1214
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 4: I didn't mean.

1215
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 1: To now, No, No, I'm kidding.

1216
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 3: I think that that. I think that the the spiritualizing

1217
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 3: of wilderness. Really it's true. You know, I think we've

1218
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:19,160
Speaker 3: all experienced it. If you've been somewhere remote and you've

1219
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 3: seen a breathtaking mountain scape with a sunrise that just

1220
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,640
Speaker 3: blows your mind, how the creator could have made that

1221
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 3: for you to see that morning. I think a big

1222
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 3: aspect to it is the the removal of noise from

1223
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 3: your mind, from your life, from your agenda that makes

1224
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 3: that thing that much more intense and gives you that

1225
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 3: that experience.

1226
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's what's unique about that is no people have

1227
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,040
Speaker 2: different words to describe it.

1228
01:01:50,080 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: That there's no humans that denied that that happens. Yeah,

1229
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: like there's you know, you use the term creator.

1230
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 2: There would be people that would not use that term.

1231
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 2: The one thing that's for certain is that people, whether

1232
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 2: they believe in a god or don't believe in a god,

1233
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: have a spiritual And you know, people might have different

1234
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 2: definitions of what a spiritual experience would be, but nobody

1235
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 2: is arguing that when you stand on top of some

1236
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 2: beautiful summit and see a sunrise, that there is a

1237
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:26,439
Speaker 2: sublime feeling like the Guy Burke he popularized that word.

1238
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 2: The sublime is like the overlap of the natural and

1239
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:34,040
Speaker 2: the spiritual. And that is what is not up for debate,

1240
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: is that something happens that's bigger than just normal human stuff.

1241
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: Which I think that's incredible. Yeah, that we're not arguing

1242
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 2: about this thing that happens. And it would make sense

1243
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: maybe even biologically that it doesn't make sense that that

1244
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 2: would happen unless we were coded to respond to these things,

1245
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 2: which I think we are.

1246
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1247
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 5: They you know, they talked about people gravitating toward art

1248
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 5: paintings and stuff that was in Yeah, that was the

1249
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 5: trees were just limbs or whatever. We're just laden with

1250
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 5: fruit that hadn't been picked.

1251
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 2: Animals that were that were didn't look scared.

1252
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: Do you remember the guy go ahead, Well, I.

1253
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 5: Was just you're and I experience in Canada and in

1254
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 5: Saskatchewan when when the bears were the famous bear that

1255
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 5: poked his head in the in the blind on us

1256
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 5: and all the bears that were walking around us, they

1257
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 5: had no.

1258
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 6: Fear of us.

1259
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 5: They didn't they they were actually they were absolutely unmolested

1260
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 5: and they had no knowledge that that was one of

1261
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,439
Speaker 5: my top experiences ever.

1262
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just weren't afraid of us.

1263
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 6: They weren't afraid.

1264
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 2: Do you remember the guy had on from I even

1265
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 2: I don't even remember which bear grease it was, but

1266
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 2: one of the bear greases where a guy told us

1267
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 2: that people respond to landscape art with humans that are

1268
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 2: that are in cover. Like so if you had if

1269
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,360
Speaker 2: you had a picture of a group of people like

1270
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 2: out in the middle of a field, that you would

1271
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: that that that you you would you would be more

1272
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 2: drawn to a picture of people that were close to a.

1273
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 3: Bluff because there's a vulnerability.

1274
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's kind of the same thing, it's different,

1275
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: it's yeah. Yeah.

1276
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 2: Dan Flores was talking about how we respond to unmolested

1277
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: scenes of calm animals, fruit trees that hadn't been picked,

1278
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,600
Speaker 2: like stuff like that. But but there's there's like deeper,

1279
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:47,959
Speaker 2: there's stuff so coded into us that like we want

1280
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,080
Speaker 2: to be close to cover. Anyway, I just thought human

1281
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 2: response to landscape art is a.

1282
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 3: Photograph of a bison goring a National Park visitor.

1283
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, I myself. You get what you pay for.

1284
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 4: Well, then do you think the coating is just a

1285
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 4: desire for food, water, and shelter. Well, I mean it's

1286
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 4: if it's the same kind of response, it's no doubt.

1287
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's there are things built inside

1288
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 2: of us that help us survive. But I don't think

1289
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,040
Speaker 2: that exclude that that comes at the exclusion of what

1290
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:27,320
Speaker 2: Josh said. I do believe that the beauty and intricacy

1291
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 2: and architecture of the natural world what it does for me,

1292
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 2: and I think I speak for a lot of people,

1293
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 2: it does draw me to a creator like I. You know,

1294
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 2: there's the old thing about if you if you walked

1295
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 2: out into a field and you found a watch.

1296
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 1: Land and the field Josh, okay, you pick it up

1297
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: and you know what time it was. You would know

1298
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: what time it was, but you would go who put

1299
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: this watch here?

1300
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1301
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: Who made this watch?

1302
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 6: Or a stone point?

1303
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 2: And you walk out to nature and we see something

1304
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 2: that's far more complex, far more designed, far more intricate,

1305
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 2: far more intelligent than the making of a watch, and

1306
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 2: we we say, well, should the question be who made this?

1307
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 6: Right?

1308
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 2: So to me, that like a sunrise, evokes inside of

1309
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:25,320
Speaker 2: me a connection, a desire for a connection to my

1310
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: creator that is not exclusive to it's also deeply biological

1311
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:34,560
Speaker 2: and epigenetics like my my biophilia.

1312
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 6: EO.

1313
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 2: Wilson wrote a book called Biophilia, which means that we

1314
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 2: have Phelia means like an obsession with We have an

1315
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: obsession with life.

1316
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 1: We're the only species.

1317
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 2: On planet Earth that has an obsession with other animals

1318
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 2: lives other than like a prey, like.

1319
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: A predator and a prey or whatever.

1320
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: But like we want to domesticate animals were interested and

1321
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 2: that is been the biological thing that's made us so successful,

1322
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 2: is this love of life, and it's like that's deeply

1323
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 2: coated inside of us. I think that's also a big

1324
01:07:09,360 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 2: part of what makes us human and has this consciousness.

1325
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is is that you can have

1326
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 2: this spiritual thing happening and the natural thing at the

1327
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:17,919
Speaker 2: same time.

1328
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: What we're we gonna say, Luke.

1329
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 4: So I was just thinking this is maybe jumping ahead

1330
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 4: or whatever, but it was just episode four that was

1331
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 4: the Ranella thing I was thinking about. So he's talking about,

1332
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 4: what was it the North Slope of Alaska, the Boks

1333
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,840
Speaker 4: the most wild. Yeah, well, what if he's sitting there

1334
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 4: glassing and he sees a goat with a collar on it,

1335
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Does that make it less

1336
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 4: wild to him? Does that take away? Is it no

1337
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 4: longer wild because that animal has been molested by man?

1338
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like, I mean, what what's

1339
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 4: that scenario? Like, where's I guess I don't know if

1340
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 4: that goes into where the line is. I'd be curious

1341
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 4: to say to I'd be curious to hear what he

1342
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 4: has to say about something like that.

1343
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 5: He's he's addressed that before. He said he would run

1344
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 5: it for him, really because another human has already touched that.

1345
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 4: You know, I kind of have the same I sort

1346
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 4: of have the same kind of thought. I was just

1347
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 4: thinking about it, like, you know, that's the most wild

1348
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 4: place you can think. But what if that's what he

1349
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 4: you know, saw there? Yeah, Like what would you have

1350
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:21,240
Speaker 4: to say about There's.

1351
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 2: A lot of paradoxes inside it today because because of

1352
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,439
Speaker 2: the scarcety of wilderness, you know, the question is is

1353
01:08:26,479 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 2: there really even wilderness left?

1354
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 4: I mean on the coach man's you know, trying to

1355
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 4: preserve wilderness, you know what I mean, that Steve makes

1356
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 4: it less wild? It's just like.

1357
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 3: I mean, there are some places on Earth that are

1358
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 3: untouched I mean there's some places where I think things

1359
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 3: exist that we don't. I mean, definitely in the sea,

1360
01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:54,200
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, we have we have places

1361
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 3: where humans have never even seen.

1362
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: Crabbers, only only crabbers.

1363
01:08:58,760 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 6: But he said humans.

1364
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,360
Speaker 3: But there's some places in Africa that are that are

1365
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:12,560
Speaker 3: pretty that they don't think they're so adverse to.

1366
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: Where are you getting this information about Africa?

1367
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 3: I was reading about It's been years since I read

1368
01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:19,600
Speaker 3: about this, but there they think there are creatures in

1369
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 3: there that humans haven't seen.

1370
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:24,000
Speaker 2: Right deep in the jungle. But on a landscape level,

1371
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 2: I don't think Africa is like the place to think about.

1372
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing. Yeah, I see your point, but I think.

1373
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 2: The bigger, the bigger unmolested landscapes in in the world

1374
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 2: are in the in the closer to the north, the poles,

1375
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:44,480
Speaker 2: I mean antarticle.

1376
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,759
Speaker 1: Obviously, it's probably the would.

1377
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 3: Would be more more abundant in places that are more harsh,

1378
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 3: like harsh climates.

1379
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, because humans are wanting to live in places that

1380
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,800
Speaker 2: are favorable, comfortable, and so.

1381
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,720
Speaker 3: That's why there's no wilderness in Kansas, right.

1382
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: It's it's all very profitable.

1383
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 2: What we're going to talk about too, in in episode

1384
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 2: two Here We Go, is that there's a thing called

1385
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 2: the rock and ice wildernesses. The wildernesses that we have

1386
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: today are preservation of places that were unusable, and so

1387
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 2: that's the reason we don't have very many prairie wildernesses.

1388
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 2: Imagine having a section of prairie in Kansas that Britos

1389
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 2: are ready giving away our second coonskin cap. Imagine having

1390
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 2: a four million acre wilderness.

1391
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 6: And what do you think?

1392
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 5: You know, you say the word wilderness and I immediately

1393
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 5: think of mountain, mountain trees.

1394
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean, you have been marketed to your whole life. Oh,

1395
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: that that's what wilderness is.

1396
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you just the afropet kind of a funny

1397
01:10:57,920 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 4: thing is like if you were to ask a lot

1398
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 4: of people like the most wild thing you can think

1399
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 4: of or wild place, like, so many people would probably

1400
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,839
Speaker 4: say something like Mount Everest.

1401
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, it's mountains there is just because of.

1402
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:12,360
Speaker 4: The people and you know whatever else it's.

1403
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:17,640
Speaker 1: Just lines of people. Yeah. No, And it was interesting.

1404
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 1: So we're building a case that.

1405
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 2: Not not not that it's better or worse, but that

1406
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 2: the American worldview on wilderness is different than the rest

1407
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:30,960
Speaker 2: of the world. And I think by the end of

1408
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 2: this that we're going to quantify that to a pretty

1409
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 2: heavy degree.

1410
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 3: You're trying to tell me that Canadians don't care about wilderness.

1411
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 1: Well that's what That's what Steve Nill was trying to

1412
01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: tell us. No, and his his point.

1413
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 2: Was I left that in there, honestly just because it

1414
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 2: was entertaining.

1415
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:47,840
Speaker 1: When I was having this conversation with.

1416
01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 2: Steve, I was like, this is working out like I

1417
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 2: thought it would, and then uh, but I felt like

1418
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 2: it was valuable because I want to include it because.

1419
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: He's right, like, we're not.

1420
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 2: I don't want this to be like, Wow, look how

1421
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 2: great Americans are. We're superior to the rest of the

1422
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,120
Speaker 2: world because we've preserved wilderness. But at the same time,

1423
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 2: America was the food America pioneered for I.

1424
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: Believe this to be true.

1425
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,640
Speaker 2: And I don't say this with arrogance, and we have

1426
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:23,839
Speaker 2: international listeners.

1427
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,160
Speaker 1: Don't get your feelings hurt.

1428
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 2: America pioneered modern ideas on conservation wilderness for a lot

1429
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 2: of the world to follow. I mean, we were the

1430
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 2: first place that had designated wilderness areas. We're the first

1431
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 2: place that had public lands that were open for people

1432
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 2: to hunt, trap fish, recreate like nobody else was doing that.

1433
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,839
Speaker 4: We also have the in America, we had the luxury

1434
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 4: to do that.

1435
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 2: It's yes, you know what I mean, Yes, Like that's

1436
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 2: it's not just from the merit of our own soul.

1437
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,880
Speaker 1: It's like we exactly.

1438
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:58,960
Speaker 4: You know, I just know from from dealing with all

1439
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:00,719
Speaker 4: the things that you know, I'm kind of dealing with

1440
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 4: the with the bay right now. It's like when I

1441
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:06,600
Speaker 4: really think about it and you think, you know the

1442
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,719
Speaker 4: whole you know, we're dealing with issues in the bay,

1443
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:12,240
Speaker 4: but you know they're dealing with issues a thousand times

1444
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 4: worse all over the world. And you're like, if you're

1445
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 4: going to stop the pollution or this or that, like

1446
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 4: you got to fix it in China, and well, you know,

1447
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,680
Speaker 4: being able to have the luxury of caring about the

1448
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 4: wilderness and the animals that live there is a very

1449
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:26,599
Speaker 4: you know, it's a privilege, you know what I mean.

1450
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 2: It's a First world product of economic Yeah, economic.

1451
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:36,160
Speaker 1: Having it, having economics, having money, prosperity.

1452
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, because in a lot of the world, luxury in

1453
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 2: a lot of the world, they they've exploited massive amounts

1454
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 2: of what they have just because they could, and and

1455
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 2: and we're not exempt either. Part of America's success on

1456
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: preservation of wilderness was simply that we had.

1457
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 1: A huge continent, you know, uh, filled.

1458
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 4: With resource, yes, and they use the resource there to

1459
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 4: like become kind of it's like we just barely you

1460
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 4: know what I mean, on a graph, just barely crossed

1461
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 4: right before it was too late, exactly Like we came

1462
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 4: here basically, you know, took from the land as much

1463
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 4: as we could, but it put us in a position

1464
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 4: where we were now we you know, we have the

1465
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 4: luxury of caring about the land that we had left,

1466
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 4: you know, saving this last little bit took nine percent

1467
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,960
Speaker 4: to get there. To be able to have that luxury.

1468
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 4: In reality, I think.

1469
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that's great.

1470
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 4: Then we were able to take that we you know,

1471
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,360
Speaker 4: we had the privilege of taking that five percent and

1472
01:14:37,400 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 4: preserving it.

1473
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 6: You know.

1474
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:43,720
Speaker 4: So it's like I think America just barely saved it,

1475
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, like a lot.

1476
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 2: I was I was surprised to learn that five percent

1477
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 2: of America is federal capital w wilderness.

1478
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 1: Five that's a lot.

1479
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,880
Speaker 3: Where the where are the other like bulks of that

1480
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 3: in different areas.

1481
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 2: Alaska, If you had listened to the podcast, you would

1482
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:08,200
Speaker 2: have heard that, uh oh, that they're eight hundred and

1483
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:11,280
Speaker 2: six I'm kidding, Josh, eight hundred.

1484
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 1: And six federal wilderness.

1485
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 6: Right.

1486
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:16,600
Speaker 2: The bulk of the the big chunks and volume are

1487
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 2: in Alaska. Like here's huge wilderness in Alaska, and then

1488
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:26,320
Speaker 2: the Bob Marshall is a huge wilderness that's in Montana.

1489
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:27,959
Speaker 1: The Cellway.

1490
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 2: There's somebody's gonna tell me I'm crazy. The Bob Marshall.

1491
01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 2: How big is the Bob Marshall. Somebody look up how

1492
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 2: big the Bob Marshall is. It is a massive chunk

1493
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:42,639
Speaker 2: of land. We have a lot of wildernesses in the

1494
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 2: East that are very small, like under ten thousand acres,

1495
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 2: which are extremely valuable, but out I mean, you could

1496
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 2: fit all of Georgia's wilderness, every one of them into

1497
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,680
Speaker 2: like a teeny tiny corner of the Bob Marshall.

1498
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,000
Speaker 6: More than a million and one point five million acres one.

1499
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: Point five marshall.

1500
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1501
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 2: Look up some of the other wildernesses in Alaska, like

1502
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,600
Speaker 2: the biggest Alaska wilderness with the capitol.

1503
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,679
Speaker 4: W I would argue that the reason those places are

1504
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:16,160
Speaker 4: still so wild is because it was not easy to

1505
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 4: get there and profit off of the land. You know,

1506
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:20,639
Speaker 4: that is that's true?

1507
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1508
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's no giant cities in Alaska that sprawl across

1509
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:28,840
Speaker 4: the half the place, you know, because it's just hard

1510
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 4: to get there, and it's not probitable, you know.

1511
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 2: And it's it's it's wilderness is extremely controversial.

1512
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 1: It's and it's controversial today.

1513
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:42,240
Speaker 5: Fifty seven and a half million acres of designated wilderness

1514
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 5: in Alaska. Wow, out of two hundred and twenty two

1515
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 5: million federal acres.

1516
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,479
Speaker 4: Canada is is that? I mean, well, Canada is not

1517
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 4: like ninety percent probably, I mean, but there they.

1518
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,640
Speaker 1: Don't have federal designation. Well, I don't know, I don't know.

1519
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 5: I mean the Tree Queensland up there, our Kingsland now

1520
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 5: Crown called Crown Land.

1521
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, whatever it is.

1522
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I don't know if Canada probably has some

1523
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 2: type of wilderness, but I wouldn't know what it's called.

1524
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 2: It's not the same as ours. I mean, it's not

1525
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 2: We're not counting their land in ours, you know. I mean,

1526
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 2: even though is basically the fifty first state. We all

1527
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 2: know that.

1528
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 3: You're not making any friends right now.

1529
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:27,040
Speaker 1: Canada.

1530
01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 6: I love you.

1531
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 1: I love you so much, I really do. I love Canada.

1532
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 1: It's a lot of time in Canada.

1533
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 4: The geese are excellent.

1534
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 2: Well, for fear that we're going to spoil the rest

1535
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 2: of these episodes, this has been a good It's been

1536
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 2: a great start.

1537
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love this topic.

1538
01:17:43,160 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 2: I'm serious, I love it, and I do think that

1539
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:52,639
Speaker 2: even if I would hope that people that are human,

1540
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 2: the attention span is so small as possible, someone could

1541
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:57,559
Speaker 2: be like, I'm not interested in wilderness and not listening

1542
01:17:57,560 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 2: to this podcast. I would hope if they did, they

1543
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 2: be drawn in and be like I should be I

1544
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 2: should at least have an understanding this because we're gonna

1545
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 2: see how much this idea is tied into American identity

1546
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 2: really with the frontier thesis, Frederick Jackson Turner, You're gonna

1547
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 2: hear about it, but this is a good place to start. Luke,

1548
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 2: thanks for coming down, man.

1549
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,880
Speaker 4: Thank you much for having me. I really appreciate it.

1550
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 4: It's uh, it's pretty wild. I thought i'd ever be

1551
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:34,200
Speaker 4: here doing this, truly, so I'm truly grateful that you

1552
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:36,760
Speaker 4: guys are allow me to come down here.

1553
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 1: And if you come back, bring more crab don't come right.

1554
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:46,080
Speaker 4: A technology we can make it happen.

1555
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know how to get we know.

1556
01:18:48,479 --> 01:18:51,240
Speaker 4: Now, let's I have a little watch list.

1557
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 3: Now this could be, but just have them drop shipped

1558
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:54,920
Speaker 3: here when you come.

1559
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 2: Now, if one day my dream is that one day

1560
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:03,439
Speaker 2: every t s A board in America will have a

1561
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 2: picture of a blue crab a circle with an X across,

1562
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 2: I'll be like Luke would.

1563
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 4: Be my my mark on society.

1564
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 2: No, no live blue crabs on the plane. All right, guys,

1565
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: thanks so much,