WEBVTT - #051 Jason Flom with Malcolm Alexander 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.080 America has two point two million people in prison. If 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:08.200 just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two thousand people. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.040 That's a lot of people's lives destroyed. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:18.440 If the system want to take you out of society, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.800 they will do it no matter what laws they have 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.680 to break, saying that they are enforcing the laws, but 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:25.800 they're breaking the lord. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.360 Having to hear those people say that I was guilty 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.479 of a crime that I did not commit, and then 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.559 hear my family break down behind me and not be 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.600 able to do anything about it. I can't describe the 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:38.640 crushing weight that was. 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.680 I'm not anti police, I'm just anti corruption. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:46.840 A lot of times we look and we see something 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.200 happen to somebody, and that's the first thing we said, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:50.720 that could never happen to me, but. 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:52.600 They can. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:16.520 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:23.039 Jason Flamm. Today, I have a truly extraordinary guest, a 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:27.200 gentleman named Malcolm Alexander, who was released from prison three 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:30.880 weeks ago after serving almost thirty eight years for a 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:32.160 crime he did not commit. 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.200 Louisiana. Inmate is a freeman this afternoon, after he was 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.000 clear of a rape that happened back in nineteen seventy nine, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.600 a state judge throughout a fifty eight year old and 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.040 Malcolm Alexander's conviction after defense attorneys argue that Alexander's trial 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.240 lawyer failed to point out the victim has been doubtful 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.600 when she identified him. Alexander spent thirty eight years at 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:53.800 Angola for the crime. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.000 Malcolm, welcome to the show, thank you, And with him 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:03.680 today is his son, Malcolm Junior, who is forty years old. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.760 He was two at the time that his father was 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:10.920 sent away. So Malcolm Junior, welcome to Ron for Conviction. 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:15.079 Thank you, and we have a return visit from one 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.800 of Malcolm's extraordinary lawyers at the Innocence Project, Vanessa Popkin, 0:02:19.960 --> 0:02:24.119 who is the director of post conviction Litigation. Vanessa, welcome back, 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:25.240 Thank you for having me. 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:26.240 Great to be here. 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:29.720 So, Malcolm, I want to go back to the beginning, 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:37.200 before this whole insane saga started. Let's go back to 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.200 where you grew up and how you grew up and 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.600 what your life was like as a child as a 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:42.080 young man. 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.840 Well, very simple, sir, played sports. I enjoyed biking, done 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:49.720 a lot of fishing. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:52.359 What kind of sports I mean You're a pretty big guy, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:53.640 look like you might to play some football. 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.160 Yes, sir, he played a lot of football. Came up 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:59.480 from junior high to high playing football, went to Jo 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.919 and Eric Worley Middle School, and I left from Worley 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:08.119 Middle School, went to West Jefferson High. Left from West 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.880 Jefferson High, went to Joe and Eric. And after that, 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.239 I guess, said, I just went into the working world. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:16.800 What were you working at? 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.760 Well, I had separate jobs. It was like once I 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:25.840 worked for International Tank Terminal, I worked for a fleet company. 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:30.840 I worked for Golf Central Railroad. 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:32.720 There's a lot of jobs for a guy who was 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.480 still just a teenager really at the time. Right, you 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.040 had your son, Malcolm, who's sitting here at Malcolm Junior 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:39.360 sitting here with you. Know you had him when you 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:40.000 were very young. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.120 Yes, sir, I had him actually when I was still 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.080 in uh high school. And that's the kind of the 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.480 reason why I had all the job because I was 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.280 playing football plus working at the same time. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:54.800 Right, So you had a very busy life. We had 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.360 a good life, yes, sir, And you got a great 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.000 son out of it, who's now a man, thank you. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.000 Obviously grew up without his father and of course. Now 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.040 I got to just get this out. You have a grandson, Malcolm. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:08.600 The third, Yes, sir, when he is twenty. 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.160 It's amazing. Your grandson is twenty, which is the same 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:13.280 age that you were. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:16.160 When I got your calcerators when you were locked up. 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.960 It's unbelievable. I mean, that really gives a sense of 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.880 the timeline and going back when we were talking nineteen 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.000 eighty like who is president? When you were locked up? 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.440 Ooh, I think we were doing could a time. 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.919 Jimmy Carter was the president. Wow, that does give a 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:38.719 sense of how long ago it really was. So how 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.599 did this happen? And let me turn to Vanessa for 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:44.440 a second. Can you take us through how this began 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:47.120 and why it was allowed to continue when there were 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.560 so many obvious signs that he wasn't the guy? 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:52.240 Sure. 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.520 In nineteen seventy nine, a woman was minding an antique 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.360 shop that she had just opened when a black man 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:01.640 that she had never seen before came into the store 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:06.240 and basically attacked her from behind at gunpoint. Took her 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.240 into a small bathroom in the back of the store, 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.719 where he sexually assaulted her twice and then fled. 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.159 And this was the rape of a brutal rape of 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.760 a white woman by a black mail in the Deep 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.039 South in nineteen seventy nine. And we'll get into the 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.279 fact that there was a cross racial identification or misidentification, 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:30.680 which we know is a huge problem because scientific study 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.200 after study have proven that our memories are totally fallible. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.040 In this case, the identification was made four and a 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.480 half months after the crime, right, and good luck try 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.240 to remember what you were doing four and a half 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:43.880 months ago or any details of that. But then when 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:47.120 it's a cross racial identification, of course the odds of 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:51.680 a correct result go down dramatically. And this had all 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.080 of those factors, right, that's right. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.080 The victim in this case was attacked in an antique 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.599 store that she had just opened. It was early in 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:02.400 the day, and a man came in with a gun. 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.240 Most of the attack happened from behind, and it was 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.480 at gunpoint. We know weapon focus is also a big 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.040 issue in misidentifications because when a crime happens with the weapon, 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.600 people tend to look at the weapon, not the person 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.200 who's holding the weapon, and really be focused on what's 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.640 happening there. So the assailant came into the store armed 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:26.640 and the victim was held at gunpoint throughout the entire attack, 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:28.960 and then the perpetrator fled, so she had a very 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:32.720 limited opportunity to see the person who did this, and 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.599 over four months went by with no identification made or 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:43.000 no suspect in the case. Unfortunately, in March of nineteen eighty, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:48.080 Malcolm Alexander had a consensual relationship with a white woman 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.720 and it turned out that she was a sex worker 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.400 and wanted money from him, and when he didn't give 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.440 her the money, she made a false allegation of rape, 0:06:58.560 --> 0:06:58.800 and the. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.719 Charge was immediately smith. It was not pursued at all. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.680 Absolutely the police found no cooperation, they didn't pursue it. 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:10.960 But the lead officer who responded to that case had 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.440 also been the lead officer on the nineteen seventy nine 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.960 rape in the antique store, and so when Malcolm Alexander 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.600 came in and told police exactly what happened and made 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.560 a statement, the officer said, hmm, and this is in 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.360 the reports. You know, there was something about him that 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.320 reminded him of the previous incident that by now had 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.720 been unsolved for you know, just about four months from 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:37.120 our take. The only thing that's similar between both incidents 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:38.360 is that the victim was white. 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:40.840 Otherwise they were completely different, and. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.560 The perpetrator was black. Correct, Well, there was no perpetrator 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.720 in the ones. In both cases it was a sexual event, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:48.800 what do you want to call it, between a black 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:50.440 male and a white woman. But other than that, there 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.720 is one was consensual, one was not. There's no similarity. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.440 That was just a terrible coincidence that happened to put 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.880 Malcolm in the crosshairs of the right. 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.440 I guess coincidence or racism on the part of the 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:08.040 investigating officer both both and once he was put into 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.400 the photo ray, then the factors that you were discussing 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.560 before kick in, and you know, this is nineteen eighty 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:18.520 and the lead detective is administering the photo ray, which 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:21.040 we know today by best practices, is not how it 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.840 should be done. That should be a blind lineup where 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:26.560 the person conducting the array doesn't know who the suspect is, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.520 so they can't intentionally or unintentionally convey cues to the 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.960 eyewitness as to who to pick. But the victim, she 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:36.760 picked him out tentatively and said she wanted to see 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.360 him again in person. So three days later they did 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.560 an in person lineup, and Malcolm was the only person 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.800 from the photo or ray who was repeated in the 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:46.280 in person lineup. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:50.280 Right, which again is going to be a very suggestive protocol. Malcolm, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.880 what was going on in your head? Because here you 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:57.800 are one day, you're working on several jobs, you're playing sports, 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:01.560 you're raising your family, and you get arrested. Did you 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.120 even know about this crime? Had you heard anything about it? 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.360 Was it talked about in the neighborhood. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.920 No, sir. And actually when I was approached about it, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.720 I volunteered to go to the lineup because I was 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.280 actually sitting in the parish waiting to get out on bill. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.120 And when they approached me about this crime here, and 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:20.960 they asked me what i'd be willing to appear in 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.840 front of a lineup. I know I hadn't done anything, 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.640 you know, as far as in that case there, but 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.640 they talking about someone else, said that I may have 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.320 raped them, But all the time I know I hadn't 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:33.680 raped anyone in the beginning. 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.400 And then she picked you out of the lineup, That's 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.800 what I was told. Oh so you weren't even made 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.240 aware of it at that time, no, sir. So what 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:43.479 happens next? 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:44.160 All right. 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.080 I think it was the next day that came back 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:50.200 and booked me on something like this. Here. The attorney 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.920 that I had with me at the lineup, his name 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:58.040 was Ralph Burnett, and I wound up dismissing him. He 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.160 was another pee attorney who asked the question to me, 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.920 do I go around raping on white women? So I 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.480 had to dismiss him or called my parents and explain 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.240 to my parents what was happening. And I guess to 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.199 let him know that he would fied. And that's when 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.840 we went and got Joe Toash with the way, the 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:26.160 fact that Joe Tash and Robert Burnett was actually working 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:27.280 out the same office. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.680 Oh, I didn't even know that, no, sir, I mean 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.560 that sounds like an office from hell. Because this guy 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:38.880 Tosh was one of the most incompetent and even evil 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.839 characters that the American Bar Association has a level ever 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:46.000 allowed to become a lawyer. How he became a lawyer 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.320 in the first place is a mystery, but the fact 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:53.720 is that he was later disbarred for such egregious misconduct 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.720 or whatever you want to call it, malfeasance and competence. 0:10:56.880 --> 0:11:01.400 And in your case, it actually bears read because it 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:05.040 defies the imagination to see what is possible in our 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.079 criminal justice system. And I'm going to read something here. 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.240 He repeatedly failed to appear in court, missing both the 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:17.559 arraignment and the sentencing. That alone is giving me the chills. 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.200 It's just shocking. I mean, how can a lawyer not 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.040 show up? It's just I mean, and there and there 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:28.240 you are probably wondering, where's my lawyer at right? Yes, sir, now, 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:33.280 as anybody would be. Okay, let's take a second here. 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.400 He also failed to file important and basic pleadings with 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:41.040 the court. He never challenged the circumstances of the identification, 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:46.040 which would be lawyering one oh one Vanessa. Absolutely the 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.480 list goes on. He did not prepare an opening statement, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:52.800 failed to properly cross examine witnesses, sometimes asking no questions 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:57.040 at all, and gave just a four page closing argument 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.720 and then, as if to put an exclaim nation point 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:07.120 on this whole nightmare scenario of American jurisprudence. Despite explicitly 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.839 telling Malcolm and his family that he would appeal to 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:15.040 the decision, he never did so. This is hard, probably 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.280 for a lot of people to believe that in a 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:24.080 situation in which literally your life is in this guy's 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.880 hands if because you were facing and ultimately were given 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:33.160 a sentence of life at hard labor with no possibility 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.400 of parole. And this guy didn't even bother to do 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.680 things that any first year law student would have done. 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.000 And it's a terrible failure that nobody steps in, and 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.080 there's got to be someone who's going to go, wait, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.520 this is not okay, and that should have happened in 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:55.800 your case. There should be some check and balance where 0:12:56.040 --> 0:13:00.440 when an attorney fails so terribly it doesn't take years 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.400 and years and years and then wait for the guy 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.120 to get this barred after he screws over so many 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.320 other people too. I mean, God knows the trail of 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.280 destruction and misery that he left. How many more Malcolm 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.040 Alexander's are out there that had the terrible misfortune and 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.320 not only be wrongfully accused and arrested for something and charged, 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:25.800 but then to be represented misrepresented by this small evil man. 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:45.079 This is America. This shouldn't happen. So how long did 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.240 you have to wait for your trial to start? 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:53.079 Think about three months? Because it was a time that 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.920 I actually went to Jackson Mississippi for the criminal in 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:02.240 saying for a little while, trying to buy time to 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.120 get a lawyer to investigate the case, because at some 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.840 point in there he was explaining to me about the 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.840 date that the crime happened on, and then by the 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.200 time I made it back then he were telling me 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.160 about it happened on another date and at the time 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:20.880 I was working, so we was trying to establish me 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.160 an alibi, my family and us to get with my 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.320 boss to show the lawyer because he really wouldn't do 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.320 and know what we call laid work, and the information 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.480 he was kind of like giving us about the case 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.720 wasn't really never measuring up because we discovered that after 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.840 him constantly saying the date was offed. So we just 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.080 couldn't necessarily afford to go and get another lawyer just 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.120 like that, and I had made a decision about had 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:51.000 actually having my own paid attorney, So just one thing 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.360 led to another, and I just wound up sticking with 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.840 him and my boss who I was working for doing 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:03.800 contract work with, like what's going on? His question asked 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.520 he was the lawyer actually saying the date that it 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.720 happened on that the Pacific date because he had wanted 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.440 to come to cold and testify that much. We did 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.920 run by the lawyer, but there was something that he 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:17.560 just never follow up on. 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:23.400 So your boss, who would have been probably a very 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:27.680 believable witness as somebody who was a successful businessman employing 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.920 people like yourself, I never got the chance to get 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.040 understand and tell people where you really were that day exactly. 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:37.160 And were you aware at this time that this lawyer 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:38.720 was really selling you down the river? 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.320 No, sir, not really, because I went into the system 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.600 trusting it, not believing that you know, they actually can 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:49.120 find me guilty or he got allow me to be 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.240 found guilty or something I didn't do. And I considered, 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.920 once all the facts is actually known about the case, 0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:58.320 you know, it would prove that I didn't do it. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.160 That seems to be common thread, right. You believe from 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.440 the beginning that the system would work for you because 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.480 you knew that you weren't there, You weren't the guy, 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:08.720 and in fact, he didn't even match the description as 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.600 it turns out exactly. But it felt that every step 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.240 of the way, and there were so many things that 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.200 just one thing could have gone right and would have 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.680 changed the whole outcome of this thing, but instead everything 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:21.040 went wrong. So the day of the trial comes and 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.560 you're still believing that a jury is going to hear 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.160 the facts and they're going to recognize that there's a big, 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.520 big mistake. Then you're going to go home to your family, Yes, sir, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:33.920 So what was that day? Like? 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.680 Well, I'm sitting there, me and my family and a 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:42.760 lawyer and let's see, I'm listening to him call witness 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:48.800 who testifying as to well this investigating this way we 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.560 was calling here, calling it and then getting like a 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.400 narraror of the events that it was taking place and 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:59.600 surround the crime, whereas going to the sea collecting evid dance. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.920 And then we got over to the doctor where they 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.600 brought her to the hospital. Then we went to the 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.399 doctor who examined her, and he gave his findings and 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.840 stuff like this hell and somewhere in there he's more 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:18.199 or less repeating thanks what she said, more than actually 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:22.040 gave his expert analysis of the test results and stuff 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.520 like that. But I'm listening to all this show, but 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.760 nothing actually is pointing the thing at me. Till we 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.520 got to the shour final stage when we went to 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:35.320 talking about identification. So I'm saying, well, this the only 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.240 thing they're talking about is identification that actually connected me 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.560 with this. We had no other witness, no nothing, I mean, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:49.080 no fingerprints, no blood tests, nothing but identification. So I'm saying, 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.120 all right, let's see. 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.800 And the less of the fact that the only evidence 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.800 against him was I w this identification months and months 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.840 after the fact. Had you been representing him, what would 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.240 you have done, well, I. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:09.080 Would have challenged the idea. I mean, there was a 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:10.879 lot that the lawyer could have done based on the 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.520 actual facts of the case. The fact that the victim 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:16.080 did not have a good opportunity to view the assailant, 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.919 that the attack happened from behind, that the assailant had 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.240 a gun to the victim's head throughout most of the attack, 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:25.359 and like Malcolm said, there was just a very vague 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.760 description of the assailant, you know, just basically general height, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:33.359 general appearance, race, but you know, nothing specific. And the 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:37.480 victim's identification came over four months after the crime happened. 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:42.840 In these suggests of of identification procedures where he was 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.240 repeatedly shown to the victim, And what's most important is 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:49.520 that the second time the victim was shown Malcolm was 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.760 in this live lineup, and even that second time through 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.919 that suggestive procedure, she was not positive that he was 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.320 the assailant. Her identification was documented as pow and tentative, 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.679 and that was the lineup report that was prepared by 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:08.600 the officer who conducted the identification procedure. 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.960 What happened to the guilty beyond all reasonable doubt thing, Well. 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.840 That is just not what happened here. 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.800 I mean, it's just it's so enraging, as you said, 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.199 to listen to this story and to kind of relive 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.000 it again with Malcolm, because here he is twenty years old. 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.040 His life is at stake, right, He's gonna be sentenced 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.480 to life with no possibility parole, which is the mandatory 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.960 sentence in Louisiana for aggravated rape, which just means any 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.040 type of rape with force. And so he's on trial 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.240 for his life and his lawyer's not doing anything. I mean, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.840 imagine your first lawyer says to you, do you like 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.919 raping white woman? It's like, who that's your defender, that's 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:51.320 supposed to be your advocate against the government coming after 0:19:51.359 --> 0:19:53.879 you with all of the resources that it has to 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.679 prosecute you for this crime, and then he goes to 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.600 trial and his trial lasts one day. In one day, 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.280 they pick a jury, have opening statements, present all of 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.600 the evidence, I mean not opening statements by Malcolm's lawyer, 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:10.760 but the state. They present all of the state's case. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.240 The defense doesn't call a single witness. The jury deliberates 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:18.040 and returns a verdict. You know, by six pm. It's insane. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:19.639 How was that justice? 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.000 Yeah, one day You're really right to put that in 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.240 very stark, you know light, because one day that's what 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.240 Malcolm's life was worth to pretty much everybody in that courtroom, right, 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.159 even his defender. He didn't want to be bothered. Obviously, 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.200 he didn't show up, He didn't do any research, he 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.560 didn't call any witnesses, he didn't do anything that he 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:39.160 was supposed to do. And I know, I keep harping 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:43.200 on that because it's madness. And then, like you said, 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.480 one day and everybody go home and go get something 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:47.480 eat and watch the news and go to sleep or 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:49.400 whatever they do, right, and he goes off to prison 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.399 for the rest of his life. And it takes thirty 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:56.040 eight years to unravel this disaster and to bring him 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.679 back home to where he belongs. I want to get 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:00.960 to you in a minute, Malcolm Junior, because I mean 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:02.720 you were you were just a baby at the time. 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:05.040 Were you were even aware of any of this stuff? No, 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.600 because you were between two and three while this was 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:10.800 taking place. Right, Who took care of you during this time? 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.640 Between my mom and grandmother and grandfather and my mom mom, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:19.520 So all my grandmothers, my mom my ain'ties. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:21.119 They all stepped up. 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.040 And how difficult was it for you? I mean was 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.800 there a stigma attached to it? Did other kids have 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.000 an idea that your dad was in prison? And what 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:30.959 did that mean? And how difficult was it? 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.199 Well, none of the kids knew. I didn't even know 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.560 in the beginning. But as I got older, that's when 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.680 I became aware of. You know, when we'll go see 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:42.240 him When I'm young, I'm wondering why he can't come 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:43.320 with me, you know. 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:45.200 When you would go visit him in Gola. 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:46.800 Yes, when I go visit him in Goolo. 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.359 So, like I said, going there from two years old, 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:52.960 growing up going there, and as I got old, I'm like, 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:56.639 he's asked my grandma, like Ma, why my daddy can't come? 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:01.280 You know? So she'll be like he come in, he 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:02.680 just can't come right now. 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:07.080 So then as I got older, it's like, oh, this 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.679 is jail, Like my dad in jail. So because then 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.399 nobody actually fully told, like sat down and told me, 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:15.439 your dad is in jail, so I just had to 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:19.200 as I got older, figured out on my own and 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.800 and then it's like what my dad in jail for? 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.840 You know, So I'm getting bits and pieces. And then 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.200 as I got older, I understood they talked to him 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:32.720