Speaker 1: America has two point two million people in prison. If
Speaker 1: just one percent is wrong, that's twenty two thousand people.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of people's lives destroyed.
Speaker 2: If the system want to take you out of society,
Speaker 2: they will do it no matter what laws they have
Speaker 2: to break, saying that they are enforcing the laws, but
Speaker 2: they're breaking the lord.
Speaker 1: Having to hear those people say that I was guilty
Speaker 1: of a crime that I did not commit, and then
Speaker 1: hear my family break down behind me and not be
Speaker 1: able to do anything about it. I can't describe the
Speaker 1: crushing weight that was.
Speaker 3: I'm not anti police, I'm just anti corruption.
Speaker 2: A lot of times we look and we see something
Speaker 2: happen to somebody, and that's the first thing we said,
Speaker 2: that could never happen to me, but.
Speaker 4: They can.
Speaker 3: This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with
Speaker 3: Jason Flamm. Today, I have a truly extraordinary guest, a
Speaker 3: gentleman named Malcolm Alexander, who was released from prison three
Speaker 3: weeks ago after serving almost thirty eight years for a
Speaker 3: crime he did not commit.
Speaker 5: Louisiana. Inmate is a freeman this afternoon, after he was
Speaker 5: clear of a rape that happened back in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 5: a state judge throughout a fifty eight year old and
Speaker 5: Malcolm Alexander's conviction after defense attorneys argue that Alexander's trial
Speaker 5: lawyer failed to point out the victim has been doubtful
Speaker 5: when she identified him. Alexander spent thirty eight years at
Speaker 5: Angola for the crime.
Speaker 3: Malcolm, welcome to the show, thank you, And with him
Speaker 3: today is his son, Malcolm Junior, who is forty years old.
Speaker 3: He was two at the time that his father was
Speaker 3: sent away. So Malcolm Junior, welcome to Ron for Conviction.
Speaker 3: Thank you, and we have a return visit from one
Speaker 3: of Malcolm's extraordinary lawyers at the Innocence Project, Vanessa Popkin,
Speaker 3: who is the director of post conviction Litigation. Vanessa, welcome back,
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 6: Great to be here.
Speaker 3: So, Malcolm, I want to go back to the beginning,
Speaker 3: before this whole insane saga started. Let's go back to
Speaker 3: where you grew up and how you grew up and
Speaker 3: what your life was like as a child as a
Speaker 3: young man.
Speaker 7: Well, very simple, sir, played sports. I enjoyed biking, done
Speaker 7: a lot of fishing.
Speaker 3: What kind of sports I mean You're a pretty big guy,
Speaker 3: look like you might to play some football.
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, he played a lot of football. Came up
Speaker 7: from junior high to high playing football, went to Jo
Speaker 7: and Eric Worley Middle School, and I left from Worley
Speaker 7: Middle School, went to West Jefferson High. Left from West
Speaker 7: Jefferson High, went to Joe and Eric. And after that,
Speaker 7: I guess, said, I just went into the working world.
Speaker 3: What were you working at?
Speaker 7: Well, I had separate jobs. It was like once I
Speaker 7: worked for International Tank Terminal, I worked for a fleet company.
Speaker 7: I worked for Golf Central Railroad.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of jobs for a guy who was
Speaker 3: still just a teenager really at the time. Right, you
Speaker 3: had your son, Malcolm, who's sitting here at Malcolm Junior
Speaker 3: sitting here with you. Know you had him when you
Speaker 3: were very young.
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, I had him actually when I was still
Speaker 7: in uh high school. And that's the kind of the
Speaker 7: reason why I had all the job because I was
Speaker 7: playing football plus working at the same time.
Speaker 3: Right, So you had a very busy life. We had
Speaker 3: a good life, yes, sir, And you got a great
Speaker 3: son out of it, who's now a man, thank you.
Speaker 3: Obviously grew up without his father and of course. Now
Speaker 3: I got to just get this out. You have a grandson, Malcolm.
Speaker 7: The third, Yes, sir, when he is twenty.
Speaker 3: It's amazing. Your grandson is twenty, which is the same
Speaker 3: age that you were.
Speaker 7: When I got your calcerators when you were locked up.
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable. I mean, that really gives a sense of
Speaker 3: the timeline and going back when we were talking nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty like who is president? When you were locked up?
Speaker 7: Ooh, I think we were doing could a time.
Speaker 3: Jimmy Carter was the president. Wow, that does give a
Speaker 3: sense of how long ago it really was. So how
Speaker 3: did this happen? And let me turn to Vanessa for
Speaker 3: a second. Can you take us through how this began
Speaker 3: and why it was allowed to continue when there were
Speaker 3: so many obvious signs that he wasn't the guy?
Speaker 6: Sure.
Speaker 8: In nineteen seventy nine, a woman was minding an antique
Speaker 8: shop that she had just opened when a black man
Speaker 8: that she had never seen before came into the store
Speaker 8: and basically attacked her from behind at gunpoint. Took her
Speaker 8: into a small bathroom in the back of the store,
Speaker 8: where he sexually assaulted her twice and then fled.
Speaker 3: And this was the rape of a brutal rape of
Speaker 3: a white woman by a black mail in the Deep
Speaker 3: South in nineteen seventy nine. And we'll get into the
Speaker 3: fact that there was a cross racial identification or misidentification,
Speaker 3: which we know is a huge problem because scientific study
Speaker 3: after study have proven that our memories are totally fallible.
Speaker 3: In this case, the identification was made four and a
Speaker 3: half months after the crime, right, and good luck try
Speaker 3: to remember what you were doing four and a half
Speaker 3: months ago or any details of that. But then when
Speaker 3: it's a cross racial identification, of course the odds of
Speaker 3: a correct result go down dramatically. And this had all
Speaker 3: of those factors, right, that's right.
Speaker 8: The victim in this case was attacked in an antique
Speaker 8: store that she had just opened. It was early in
Speaker 8: the day, and a man came in with a gun.
Speaker 8: Most of the attack happened from behind, and it was
Speaker 8: at gunpoint. We know weapon focus is also a big
Speaker 8: issue in misidentifications because when a crime happens with the weapon,
Speaker 8: people tend to look at the weapon, not the person
Speaker 8: who's holding the weapon, and really be focused on what's
Speaker 8: happening there. So the assailant came into the store armed
Speaker 8: and the victim was held at gunpoint throughout the entire attack,
Speaker 8: and then the perpetrator fled, so she had a very
Speaker 8: limited opportunity to see the person who did this, and
Speaker 8: over four months went by with no identification made or
Speaker 8: no suspect in the case. Unfortunately, in March of nineteen eighty,
Speaker 8: Malcolm Alexander had a consensual relationship with a white woman
Speaker 8: and it turned out that she was a sex worker
Speaker 8: and wanted money from him, and when he didn't give
Speaker 8: her the money, she made a false allegation of rape,
Speaker 8: and the.
Speaker 3: Charge was immediately smith. It was not pursued at all.
Speaker 8: Absolutely the police found no cooperation, they didn't pursue it.
Speaker 8: But the lead officer who responded to that case had
Speaker 8: also been the lead officer on the nineteen seventy nine
Speaker 8: rape in the antique store, and so when Malcolm Alexander
Speaker 8: came in and told police exactly what happened and made
Speaker 8: a statement, the officer said, hmm, and this is in
Speaker 8: the reports. You know, there was something about him that
Speaker 8: reminded him of the previous incident that by now had
Speaker 8: been unsolved for you know, just about four months from
Speaker 8: our take. The only thing that's similar between both incidents
Speaker 8: is that the victim was white.
Speaker 6: Otherwise they were completely different, and.
Speaker 3: The perpetrator was black. Correct, Well, there was no perpetrator
Speaker 3: in the ones. In both cases it was a sexual event,
Speaker 3: what do you want to call it, between a black
Speaker 3: male and a white woman. But other than that, there
Speaker 3: is one was consensual, one was not. There's no similarity.
Speaker 3: That was just a terrible coincidence that happened to put
Speaker 3: Malcolm in the crosshairs of the right.
Speaker 8: I guess coincidence or racism on the part of the
Speaker 8: investigating officer both both and once he was put into
Speaker 8: the photo ray, then the factors that you were discussing
Speaker 8: before kick in, and you know, this is nineteen eighty
Speaker 8: and the lead detective is administering the photo ray, which
Speaker 8: we know today by best practices, is not how it
Speaker 8: should be done. That should be a blind lineup where
Speaker 8: the person conducting the array doesn't know who the suspect is,
Speaker 8: so they can't intentionally or unintentionally convey cues to the
Speaker 8: eyewitness as to who to pick. But the victim, she
Speaker 8: picked him out tentatively and said she wanted to see
Speaker 8: him again in person. So three days later they did
Speaker 8: an in person lineup, and Malcolm was the only person
Speaker 8: from the photo or ray who was repeated in the
Speaker 8: in person lineup.
Speaker 3: Right, which again is going to be a very suggestive protocol. Malcolm,
Speaker 3: what was going on in your head? Because here you
Speaker 3: are one day, you're working on several jobs, you're playing sports,
Speaker 3: you're raising your family, and you get arrested. Did you
Speaker 3: even know about this crime? Had you heard anything about it?
Speaker 3: Was it talked about in the neighborhood.
Speaker 7: No, sir. And actually when I was approached about it,
Speaker 7: I volunteered to go to the lineup because I was
Speaker 7: actually sitting in the parish waiting to get out on bill.
Speaker 7: And when they approached me about this crime here, and
Speaker 7: they asked me what i'd be willing to appear in
Speaker 7: front of a lineup. I know I hadn't done anything,
Speaker 7: you know, as far as in that case there, but
Speaker 7: they talking about someone else, said that I may have
Speaker 7: raped them, But all the time I know I hadn't
Speaker 7: raped anyone in the beginning.
Speaker 3: And then she picked you out of the lineup, That's
Speaker 3: what I was told. Oh so you weren't even made
Speaker 3: aware of it at that time, no, sir. So what
Speaker 3: happens next?
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 7: I think it was the next day that came back
Speaker 7: and booked me on something like this. Here. The attorney
Speaker 7: that I had with me at the lineup, his name
Speaker 7: was Ralph Burnett, and I wound up dismissing him. He
Speaker 7: was another pee attorney who asked the question to me,
Speaker 7: do I go around raping on white women? So I
Speaker 7: had to dismiss him or called my parents and explain
Speaker 7: to my parents what was happening. And I guess to
Speaker 7: let him know that he would fied. And that's when
Speaker 7: we went and got Joe Toash with the way, the
Speaker 7: fact that Joe Tash and Robert Burnett was actually working
Speaker 7: out the same office.
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't even know that, no, sir, I mean
Speaker 3: that sounds like an office from hell. Because this guy
Speaker 3: Tosh was one of the most incompetent and even evil
Speaker 3: characters that the American Bar Association has a level ever
Speaker 3: allowed to become a lawyer. How he became a lawyer
Speaker 3: in the first place is a mystery, but the fact
Speaker 3: is that he was later disbarred for such egregious misconduct
Speaker 3: or whatever you want to call it, malfeasance and competence.
Speaker 3: And in your case, it actually bears read because it
Speaker 3: defies the imagination to see what is possible in our
Speaker 3: criminal justice system. And I'm going to read something here.
Speaker 3: He repeatedly failed to appear in court, missing both the
Speaker 3: arraignment and the sentencing. That alone is giving me the chills.
Speaker 3: It's just shocking. I mean, how can a lawyer not
Speaker 3: show up? It's just I mean, and there and there
Speaker 3: you are probably wondering, where's my lawyer at right? Yes, sir, now,
Speaker 3: as anybody would be. Okay, let's take a second here.
Speaker 3: He also failed to file important and basic pleadings with
Speaker 3: the court. He never challenged the circumstances of the identification,
Speaker 3: which would be lawyering one oh one Vanessa. Absolutely the
Speaker 3: list goes on. He did not prepare an opening statement,
Speaker 3: failed to properly cross examine witnesses, sometimes asking no questions
Speaker 3: at all, and gave just a four page closing argument
Speaker 3: and then, as if to put an exclaim nation point
Speaker 3: on this whole nightmare scenario of American jurisprudence. Despite explicitly
Speaker 3: telling Malcolm and his family that he would appeal to
Speaker 3: the decision, he never did so. This is hard, probably
Speaker 3: for a lot of people to believe that in a
Speaker 3: situation in which literally your life is in this guy's
Speaker 3: hands if because you were facing and ultimately were given
Speaker 3: a sentence of life at hard labor with no possibility
Speaker 3: of parole. And this guy didn't even bother to do
Speaker 3: things that any first year law student would have done.
Speaker 3: And it's a terrible failure that nobody steps in, and
Speaker 3: there's got to be someone who's going to go, wait,
Speaker 3: this is not okay, and that should have happened in
Speaker 3: your case. There should be some check and balance where
Speaker 3: when an attorney fails so terribly it doesn't take years
Speaker 3: and years and years and then wait for the guy
Speaker 3: to get this barred after he screws over so many
Speaker 3: other people too. I mean, God knows the trail of
Speaker 3: destruction and misery that he left. How many more Malcolm
Speaker 3: Alexander's are out there that had the terrible misfortune and
Speaker 3: not only be wrongfully accused and arrested for something and charged,
Speaker 3: but then to be represented misrepresented by this small evil man.
Speaker 3: This is America. This shouldn't happen. So how long did
Speaker 3: you have to wait for your trial to start?
Speaker 7: Think about three months? Because it was a time that
Speaker 7: I actually went to Jackson Mississippi for the criminal in
Speaker 7: saying for a little while, trying to buy time to
Speaker 7: get a lawyer to investigate the case, because at some
Speaker 7: point in there he was explaining to me about the
Speaker 7: date that the crime happened on, and then by the
Speaker 7: time I made it back then he were telling me
Speaker 7: about it happened on another date and at the time
Speaker 7: I was working, so we was trying to establish me
Speaker 7: an alibi, my family and us to get with my
Speaker 7: boss to show the lawyer because he really wouldn't do
Speaker 7: and know what we call laid work, and the information
Speaker 7: he was kind of like giving us about the case
Speaker 7: wasn't really never measuring up because we discovered that after
Speaker 7: him constantly saying the date was offed. So we just
Speaker 7: couldn't necessarily afford to go and get another lawyer just
Speaker 7: like that, and I had made a decision about had
Speaker 7: actually having my own paid attorney, So just one thing
Speaker 7: led to another, and I just wound up sticking with
Speaker 7: him and my boss who I was working for doing
Speaker 7: contract work with, like what's going on? His question asked
Speaker 7: he was the lawyer actually saying the date that it
Speaker 7: happened on that the Pacific date because he had wanted
Speaker 7: to come to cold and testify that much. We did
Speaker 7: run by the lawyer, but there was something that he
Speaker 7: just never follow up on.
Speaker 3: So your boss, who would have been probably a very
Speaker 3: believable witness as somebody who was a successful businessman employing
Speaker 3: people like yourself, I never got the chance to get
Speaker 3: understand and tell people where you really were that day exactly.
Speaker 3: And were you aware at this time that this lawyer
Speaker 3: was really selling you down the river?
Speaker 7: No, sir, not really, because I went into the system
Speaker 7: trusting it, not believing that you know, they actually can
Speaker 7: find me guilty or he got allow me to be
Speaker 7: found guilty or something I didn't do. And I considered,
Speaker 7: once all the facts is actually known about the case,
Speaker 7: you know, it would prove that I didn't do it.
Speaker 3: That seems to be common thread, right. You believe from
Speaker 3: the beginning that the system would work for you because
Speaker 3: you knew that you weren't there, You weren't the guy,
Speaker 3: and in fact, he didn't even match the description as
Speaker 3: it turns out exactly. But it felt that every step
Speaker 3: of the way, and there were so many things that
Speaker 3: just one thing could have gone right and would have
Speaker 3: changed the whole outcome of this thing, but instead everything
Speaker 3: went wrong. So the day of the trial comes and
Speaker 3: you're still believing that a jury is going to hear
Speaker 3: the facts and they're going to recognize that there's a big,
Speaker 3: big mistake. Then you're going to go home to your family, Yes, sir,
Speaker 3: So what was that day? Like?
Speaker 7: Well, I'm sitting there, me and my family and a
Speaker 7: lawyer and let's see, I'm listening to him call witness
Speaker 7: who testifying as to well this investigating this way we
Speaker 7: was calling here, calling it and then getting like a
Speaker 7: narraror of the events that it was taking place and
Speaker 7: surround the crime, whereas going to the sea collecting evid dance.
Speaker 7: And then we got over to the doctor where they
Speaker 7: brought her to the hospital. Then we went to the
Speaker 7: doctor who examined her, and he gave his findings and
Speaker 7: stuff like this hell and somewhere in there he's more
Speaker 7: or less repeating thanks what she said, more than actually
Speaker 7: gave his expert analysis of the test results and stuff
Speaker 7: like that. But I'm listening to all this show, but
Speaker 7: nothing actually is pointing the thing at me. Till we
Speaker 7: got to the shour final stage when we went to
Speaker 7: talking about identification. So I'm saying, well, this the only
Speaker 7: thing they're talking about is identification that actually connected me
Speaker 7: with this. We had no other witness, no nothing, I mean,
Speaker 7: no fingerprints, no blood tests, nothing but identification. So I'm saying,
Speaker 7: all right, let's see.
Speaker 3: And the less of the fact that the only evidence
Speaker 3: against him was I w this identification months and months
Speaker 3: after the fact. Had you been representing him, what would
Speaker 3: you have done, well, I.
Speaker 8: Would have challenged the idea. I mean, there was a
Speaker 8: lot that the lawyer could have done based on the
Speaker 8: actual facts of the case. The fact that the victim
Speaker 8: did not have a good opportunity to view the assailant,
Speaker 8: that the attack happened from behind, that the assailant had
Speaker 8: a gun to the victim's head throughout most of the attack,
Speaker 8: and like Malcolm said, there was just a very vague
Speaker 8: description of the assailant, you know, just basically general height,
Speaker 8: general appearance, race, but you know, nothing specific. And the
Speaker 8: victim's identification came over four months after the crime happened.
Speaker 8: In these suggests of of identification procedures where he was
Speaker 8: repeatedly shown to the victim, And what's most important is
Speaker 8: that the second time the victim was shown Malcolm was
Speaker 8: in this live lineup, and even that second time through
Speaker 8: that suggestive procedure, she was not positive that he was
Speaker 8: the assailant. Her identification was documented as pow and tentative,
Speaker 8: and that was the lineup report that was prepared by
Speaker 8: the officer who conducted the identification procedure.
Speaker 3: What happened to the guilty beyond all reasonable doubt thing, Well.
Speaker 6: That is just not what happened here.
Speaker 8: I mean, it's just it's so enraging, as you said,
Speaker 8: to listen to this story and to kind of relive
Speaker 8: it again with Malcolm, because here he is twenty years old.
Speaker 8: His life is at stake, right, He's gonna be sentenced
Speaker 8: to life with no possibility parole, which is the mandatory
Speaker 8: sentence in Louisiana for aggravated rape, which just means any
Speaker 8: type of rape with force. And so he's on trial
Speaker 8: for his life and his lawyer's not doing anything. I mean,
Speaker 8: imagine your first lawyer says to you, do you like
Speaker 8: raping white woman? It's like, who that's your defender, that's
Speaker 8: supposed to be your advocate against the government coming after
Speaker 8: you with all of the resources that it has to
Speaker 8: prosecute you for this crime, and then he goes to
Speaker 8: trial and his trial lasts one day. In one day,
Speaker 8: they pick a jury, have opening statements, present all of
Speaker 8: the evidence, I mean not opening statements by Malcolm's lawyer,
Speaker 8: but the state. They present all of the state's case.
Speaker 8: The defense doesn't call a single witness. The jury deliberates
Speaker 8: and returns a verdict. You know, by six pm. It's insane.
Speaker 6: How was that justice?
Speaker 3: Yeah, one day You're really right to put that in
Speaker 3: very stark, you know light, because one day that's what
Speaker 3: Malcolm's life was worth to pretty much everybody in that courtroom, right,
Speaker 3: even his defender. He didn't want to be bothered. Obviously,
Speaker 3: he didn't show up, He didn't do any research, he
Speaker 3: didn't call any witnesses, he didn't do anything that he
Speaker 3: was supposed to do. And I know, I keep harping
Speaker 3: on that because it's madness. And then, like you said,
Speaker 3: one day and everybody go home and go get something
Speaker 3: eat and watch the news and go to sleep or
Speaker 3: whatever they do, right, and he goes off to prison
Speaker 3: for the rest of his life. And it takes thirty
Speaker 3: eight years to unravel this disaster and to bring him
Speaker 3: back home to where he belongs. I want to get
Speaker 3: to you in a minute, Malcolm Junior, because I mean
Speaker 3: you were you were just a baby at the time.
Speaker 3: Were you were even aware of any of this stuff? No,
Speaker 3: because you were between two and three while this was
Speaker 3: taking place. Right, Who took care of you during this time?
Speaker 9: Between my mom and grandmother and grandfather and my mom mom,
Speaker 9: So all my grandmothers, my mom my ain'ties.
Speaker 4: They all stepped up.
Speaker 3: And how difficult was it for you? I mean was
Speaker 3: there a stigma attached to it? Did other kids have
Speaker 3: an idea that your dad was in prison? And what
Speaker 3: did that mean? And how difficult was it?
Speaker 9: Well, none of the kids knew. I didn't even know
Speaker 9: in the beginning. But as I got older, that's when
Speaker 9: I became aware of. You know, when we'll go see
Speaker 9: him When I'm young, I'm wondering why he can't come
Speaker 9: with me, you know.
Speaker 3: When you would go visit him in Gola.
Speaker 4: Yes, when I go visit him in Goolo.
Speaker 9: So, like I said, going there from two years old,
Speaker 9: growing up going there, and as I got old, I'm like,
Speaker 9: he's asked my grandma, like Ma, why my daddy can't come?
Speaker 4: You know? So she'll be like he come in, he
Speaker 4: just can't come right now.
Speaker 9: So then as I got older, it's like, oh, this
Speaker 9: is jail, Like my dad in jail. So because then
Speaker 9: nobody actually fully told, like sat down and told me,
Speaker 9: your dad is in jail, so I just had to
Speaker 9: as I got older, figured out on my own and
Speaker 9: and then it's like what my dad in jail for?
Speaker 9: You know, So I'm getting bits and pieces. And then
Speaker 9: as I got older, I understood they talked to him
Speaker 9: like like my uncles and my aunts and everybody, like
Speaker 9: everybody in the neighborhood like, man, your dad ain't do that,
Speaker 9: you know. Once I got up in age and they're
Speaker 9: talking about the case, like your dad will never do
Speaker 9: nothing like that. All they have to do is race
Speaker 9: calls and play football and things like that. So I
Speaker 9: never felt any you know, far as not believing that
Speaker 9: he didn't do it, because everybody that ever knew him
Speaker 9: always had something positive to sell bottom and that.
Speaker 4: You know, they wronged him, and you know, things like that.
Speaker 3: So you don't seem well, both of you, neither one
Speaker 3: of you seemed angry. I mean, did at any point
Speaker 3: did you become angry at the system because you knew
Speaker 3: that your dad was in this. And we've seen different cases,
Speaker 3: we've interviewing people on the show where their children actually
Speaker 3: thought they were guilty because they were told that the
Speaker 3: father was guilty or their mother. But how did you
Speaker 3: process that? I don't know. I feel like I would
Speaker 3: have been very angry.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, I was mad growing up with your dad
Speaker 9: not there and he missing your life and you get
Speaker 9: to them folks in a row. You be neat your
Speaker 9: dad in the house and that father figure. So he
Speaker 9: always was in my life talking to me over the phone,
Speaker 9: but that's not him in the presence of being there
Speaker 9: to be able to put his foot down in things
Speaker 9: that when I'm getting out the way with my mom
Speaker 9: or doing things I shouldn't be doing.
Speaker 4: You definitely need your dad there. So, yeah, I was mad.
Speaker 3: Let's go back to the trial day. There's this one
Speaker 3: day trial and now it's getting to be late afternoon,
Speaker 3: early evening. Jury goes out. They deliberated I think for
Speaker 3: less than an hour, right, yeah, less than an hour. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they come back. Did you believe at this point, having
Speaker 3: now seen the whole day's proceedings, and you get a
Speaker 3: sense when you're in that room, you sort of make
Speaker 3: some eye contact with the jurors and whatnot, right, what
Speaker 3: was going through your mind? And what was that moment like.
Speaker 7: When they came back into the coat room. The honest
Speaker 7: it is like a toss up because the lawyer really
Speaker 7: didn't say much in my defense. I'm trying to give
Speaker 7: you an idea of how it worth for me. Really,
Speaker 7: I can say it back then as opposed to how
Speaker 7: I see it now. It makes me, you know, because
Speaker 7: I really realized, you know, a lot, that he didn't
Speaker 7: do it all right. But it was like, is this
Speaker 7: really happened? To be honest with you, I couldn't really
Speaker 7: believe that it actually was taking place. They actually couldn't
Speaker 7: believe that we had got this fall with it.
Speaker 3: Right, because you should have never even been on trial
Speaker 3: in the first place. We know that now, yes, sure, well,
Speaker 3: I don't want to minimize the idea of three months
Speaker 3: in jail waiting your trial. But had it resolved at
Speaker 3: that point, you could have gone on with your life
Speaker 3: and piece things back together, maybe gotten your job back
Speaker 3: and gone back to raising your family, et cetera. But
Speaker 3: then there was that moment when they announced their verdict.
Speaker 4: It was shocking.
Speaker 7: It was hurting because I remember my mother busting out crying,
Speaker 7: my sister started crying, and my daddy just had that
Speaker 7: look on his face. Yeah, I can't even remember even
Speaker 7: if the lawyer said everything gonna be all right or
Speaker 7: not and all, I can't even remember that because really
Speaker 7: was paying attention more to my family then, because, like
Speaker 7: you see, thinking now, I realized when I got found guilty,
Speaker 7: they got found guilty, it just was more than just me.
Speaker 7: They was finally guilty. And once I actually stepped out
Speaker 7: there present, that's when I started crying. That's when they
Speaker 7: really sit in and affect me. I try to remain
Speaker 7: strong for them at that time.
Speaker 3: And then not too long after that, I guess you
Speaker 3: were taking off to what is one of the worst
Speaker 3: prisons anywhere in the world, really in Gola, and it's
Speaker 3: really a sleigh plantation. And in fact, from what I understand,
Speaker 3: you were actually made to pick cotton in the beginning, right,
Speaker 3: which is an image that is just mind blowing.
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, Yes, when I got there, we're still picking cotton,
Speaker 7: we're still picking ochres, we are still picking corn, very
Speaker 7: the vegetable and didn't have a tool what they call
Speaker 7: a hole. Actually it was a tree branch with a
Speaker 7: piece of mellow on the end that we was using
Speaker 7: to straight the roads with.
Speaker 3: A tree branch with a piece of metal on the
Speaker 3: en de scrape the roads. Yes, sir, so it's pretty
Speaker 3: much like a chain gang.
Speaker 7: More or less. And only think about it. We didn't
Speaker 7: actually have the change us. We had the gut and
Speaker 7: goss and everything, and a certain perimeter we had to
Speaker 7: stay within.
Speaker 3: Here, you are an innocent man, take it away from
Speaker 3: your family and your life and everything else, put into
Speaker 3: this basically hell on earth. How did you manage to persevere?
Speaker 3: What kind of strength does it take to deal with
Speaker 3: almost four decades in that environment knowing the whole time
Speaker 3: that you're innocent.
Speaker 7: Well, most people when they go into the institution that
Speaker 7: discover they try to adjust to the institution. But it
Speaker 7: got pocketed inside the institution that is educational and positive
Speaker 7: and by me actually off the way has work. When
Speaker 7: I was in the free world and going into that
Speaker 7: type of environment field work and stuff like that, it
Speaker 7: was kind of like readjusting. And I know it always
Speaker 7: was a place that I didn't want to be, that
Speaker 7: I shouldn't have been in the first place. So it
Speaker 7: was a question is what can I do? How can
Speaker 7: I maintain that actually it will help me to get
Speaker 7: out of here. And like I always tell people getting mad,
Speaker 7: they're gonna solve the problem. I was somewhat angry in
Speaker 7: the beginning because I know I wouldn't be here it's common,
Speaker 7: but that didn't solve my problem. So during my appeal
Speaker 7: stage and once it was over with and went into
Speaker 7: my post conviction, we had this lawyer who actually suggested,
Speaker 7: because we had to go in and hire and another
Speaker 7: lawyer to do the thing, we actually had this other
Speaker 7: lawyer who suggested to me my parents that I could
Speaker 7: file my own post conviction. So from that and when
Speaker 7: my parents mentioned that to me and said that, the
Speaker 7: lawyer said, well, you could take time out by you
Speaker 7: being that and learning the law and do your own
Speaker 7: post conviction and stuff like that. And I didn't even
Speaker 7: get mad about that because it's the truth, you know,
Speaker 7: that's started me, That's started me into pursuing my freedom
Speaker 7: on my own.
Speaker 3: And how did you find out about the Innocence Project?
Speaker 7: Right, one of the prison magazines that I had received
Speaker 7: had the Innocent Project address and information and on it.
Speaker 3: So you just sent off a letter and then and
Speaker 3: then how did you find out? Did you get a
Speaker 3: letter back saying we're going to take your case?
Speaker 7: Yes, I did. I did receive it, and it actually
Speaker 7: brightened me, to be honest with you, because I have
Speaker 7: tried hard to contact other organizations and trying to get
Speaker 7: them interested in my case.
Speaker 3: And Malcolm Junior, how where were you during this time
Speaker 3: of this stuff? Did he call you and say, hey,
Speaker 3: guess what, I got some great news? Or you must
Speaker 3: have been trying everything you could do as well to
Speaker 3: help him because you knew he was innocent. He's your dad,
Speaker 3: and I could see you love him so well.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I had got a couple of lawyers myself once
Speaker 9: I got up in age and went to making money.
Speaker 4: Ain't nothing he called for.
Speaker 9: I didn't try, you know, we was trying to investigators,
Speaker 9: trying this. Go talk to this one, you know what
Speaker 9: I mean, putting my money up, me and my grandmother,
Speaker 9: go and get this lawyer, that lawyer. So it's whatever
Speaker 9: he needed. I was there and was willing to do
Speaker 9: whatever it takes to try. But when he called and said,
Speaker 9: hey man, they found some evidence. Because he had been
Speaker 9: writing down there to Jefferson Parish for years and years
Speaker 9: and years with no evidence. When he called and said
Speaker 9: and they say they found some evidence, and we were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 9: you know, we were just very excited about that. And
Speaker 9: then also when he said that the Innocent Project's going
Speaker 9: to take the case again, he said, man, were good,
Speaker 9: We're straight.
Speaker 4: I'm a bea there. And this was just in the beginning.
Speaker 9: We were just so happy about that, you know, just
Speaker 9: I was very happy and please.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Vanessa, back to you. So originally, when the in
Speaker 3: this project got involved, the evidence was nowhere to be found, right, So.
Speaker 8: You know, Malcolm really reached out in the early days
Speaker 8: of our history. And in nineteen ninety six we started
Speaker 8: working on his case and a law student reached out
Speaker 8: to the court clerk's office that was supposed to have
Speaker 8: all the trial exhibits, and I think it was in
Speaker 8: an earlier day of honesty, got a letter back saying
Speaker 8: we inadvertently destroyed all of the evidence.
Speaker 6: We shouldn't have. It was a mistake.
Speaker 8: Today they probably would have just said, yeah, has lost
Speaker 8: we can't find it, but they actually copped to the
Speaker 8: fact that they had destroyed it.
Speaker 6: Just a couple of years after his.
Speaker 8: Trial, you know, while he was still on post conviction,
Speaker 8: So there was seeman evidence that had been left that
Speaker 8: we could have tested, but it had been destroyed. And
Speaker 8: so we because we were just focused at the time
Speaker 8: on DNA cases, we closed out Malcolm's case. But he
Speaker 8: didn't give up, you know, he kept on filing motions.
Speaker 8: He kept on, as Malcolm Junior said, reaching out to
Speaker 8: the officials in Jefferson Parish. And so his persistence paid
Speaker 8: off in twenty thirteen when they responded to him and said, actually,
Speaker 8: even though all of that evidence that the courthouse had
Speaker 8: been destroyed, there was some hairs that had been collected
Speaker 8: from where the victim was raped, and those had been
Speaker 8: kept at the lab.
Speaker 6: So they found this envelope that would turn out to
Speaker 6: be the key to his freedom.
Speaker 3: Are there rules for the safe guarding and the storing
Speaker 3: safe storing of evidence from cases around the country.
Speaker 8: So, unfortunately, there are no uniform rules. Some states have
Speaker 8: preservation laws that require evidence to be held onto but
Speaker 8: in some states it's perfectly fine to destroy evidence after
Speaker 8: a direct appeal.
Speaker 6: So that's something that has to be changed.
Speaker 8: I mean, how can we have somebody in prison and
Speaker 8: destroy evidence that could one day.
Speaker 6: You know, show that we got it wrong.
Speaker 3: We know that.
Speaker 8: Technology constantly evolves, so there's just no reason to be
Speaker 8: destroying biological evidence that could cut to the truth.
Speaker 6: In a case, it could.
Speaker 3: Not only prove that the person that's in there is
Speaker 3: a Roman, but could also show who the right one
Speaker 3: is and then do society a big favor by getting
Speaker 3: that predator off the streets. So back to you, So
Speaker 3: now here it is again, like I said, I mean,
Speaker 3: what a roller coaster ride, because after sixteen long years,
Speaker 3: you get the golden ticket, so to speak. Right, the
Speaker 3: innocent spot is taking your case. Then you get the
Speaker 3: huge disappointment finding out that the evidence, which is what
Speaker 3: you need in order to be able to prove what
Speaker 3: you know, is gone. That would be the time when
Speaker 3: it would have been convenient for you to just say,
Speaker 3: you know what, I give up. I can't. I mean,
Speaker 3: who can. The highs and lows are insane. But seventeen
Speaker 3: more years you persisted until one day twenty and thirteen,
Speaker 3: after thirty three years, and even that's five years ago
Speaker 3: now because we're in twenty eighteen. Obviously it's remarkable. I
Speaker 3: mean it says a lot about you. I don't know
Speaker 3: who could do that. You're doing this hard time and
Speaker 3: the best way that you possibly can right, yes, doing
Speaker 3: positive things, staying close with your family, fighting to prove
Speaker 3: your innocence. And then three weeks ago on January thirtieth,
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, almost thirty eight years a lifetime. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: let's just process that. What was that day? Like?
Speaker 7: No, so I actually was in the coat room when
Speaker 7: I found out, and really I was fighting back to tales.
Speaker 7: It almost went you. I got them staying I went
Speaker 7: you a life a denial And when I say, like
Speaker 7: Eric Corner, that I would turn no matter whether I
Speaker 7: was writing or even wrong, I just was say right
Speaker 7: because I knew I was writing on the right trio.
Speaker 7: I was always constantly being told that you know it's wrong,
Speaker 7: it's not going to happen. You know, we deny you,
Speaker 7: we deny you, we deny you, and be honest with you.
Speaker 7: My true freedom date the date that I knew that
Speaker 7: I truly was going to get out, when Miss Vanessa
Speaker 7: actually believed in me being innocent, and she always told
Speaker 7: me then that she'll be with me to the end.
Speaker 7: And if I told the people such as it just
Speaker 7: it's remarkable, irreplaceable. That's when I believe that I was
Speaker 7: gonna get out.
Speaker 3: That's when you believed, and that's a very powerful statement.
Speaker 3: But then you went to court and this is the opposite.
Speaker 3: Now right now, we're thirty eight years later. Family's there, Yes,
Speaker 3: Sir Malcolm Junior. Were you there that day? Yes, and
Speaker 3: you were there, Vanessa right.
Speaker 8: It was actually an incredibly stressful day because we had
Speaker 8: done DNA testing in Malcolm's case, and as of July
Speaker 8: twenty seventeen, we had some indications from the prosecutor's office
Speaker 8: that they were recognizing that this was an erroneous conviction
Speaker 8: and would potentially be moving with us to vacate the conviction.
Speaker 8: But it was seven excruciating months of getting to that point,
Speaker 8: and even as of the morning of January thirtieth, we
Speaker 8: were not certain that they were going to vacate the conviction.
Speaker 8: So when Malcolm says he learned that he was being
Speaker 8: exonerated in court, he really did, because we didn't know
Speaker 8: as of that morning what was going to happen. And
Speaker 8: it was incredible pressure because Malcolm was in court, he
Speaker 8: had been waiting on the quote unquote one yard line
Speaker 8: for seven months. His entire family was there, and we
Speaker 8: didn't know whether they were going to agree or ask
Speaker 8: for more time.
Speaker 3: Okay, so now back to you. Welcome. Okay, so you're there, Vanessa,
Speaker 3: stretch and out. I know the family's got to be
Speaker 3: on ten right stress level. And you're there. You've seen
Speaker 3: everything now, yes, sir, So what happened? How did it
Speaker 3: come down?
Speaker 7: Oh? How you will say waking up from a coma?
Speaker 7: I mean it was like it happy to be alive.
Speaker 7: I mean everything that I actually ever went through preparing
Speaker 7: myself for this one day, it was all worth it.
Speaker 7: I mean, keeping clear, not getting there any trouble, learn
Speaker 7: as much as I can learn, I mean, just preparing
Speaker 7: myself to one day actually returning to society. When she
Speaker 7: finally said that see I touched it my immediate release, Yeah,
Speaker 7: it was like, did you mean, like did she really
Speaker 7: say immediate rely? Because I'm thinking him I had to
Speaker 7: go back to ant Gorla. I thought you were going
Speaker 7: to send me back to ant Gorla.
Speaker 3: But uh so those were the words the judge said.
Speaker 3: There was some arguments back and forth whatever, and then
Speaker 3: the judge said, what I mean.
Speaker 8: It's unfortunately not what you would want it to be
Speaker 8: in every way because you want the state to say
Speaker 8: on the record, We're sorry you want the judge to
Speaker 8: publicly acknowledge all that has been robbed from Malcolm and
Speaker 8: his family who were there in court. And while everyone
Speaker 8: was cordial and the conviction was vacated, it certainly it
Speaker 8: wasn't what he was owed at that moment, but he
Speaker 8: was getting out and so there was a big sense
Speaker 8: of joy, and his mom was in the courtroom and
Speaker 8: probably twenty or thirty family members at least.
Speaker 3: Wow, that must have been a raucous And what did
Speaker 3: you do? Did you turn around and did you jump
Speaker 3: for joyed?
Speaker 7: I stayed pretty comb I stayed pretty cone I do.
Speaker 7: How can I explain it? It's just the institution of life.
Speaker 7: It prepares you for moments like that. It's kind of
Speaker 7: like it don't take your spirit, but it makes you
Speaker 7: live a harder life.
Speaker 3: Not your emotions so much. Yes, sir, well, let me
Speaker 3: get the family perspective from Malcolm Junior. Because you're sitting
Speaker 3: there in the courtroom with the twenty or thirty family
Speaker 3: members how many it is, but it's your dad. There's
Speaker 3: nobody closer to Malcolm in the courtroom than you because
Speaker 3: yours blood. So what was your reaction and what was
Speaker 3: the family's reaction. I mean, did you even believe it?
Speaker 9: I tell you what, we jump for joy. You know,
Speaker 9: we were very excited and we was, like she said,
Speaker 9: it was a she. We were sitting there just waiting
Speaker 9: and waiting and we didn't know if it was going
Speaker 9: to happen that day.
Speaker 4: But when it did, yeah.
Speaker 9: We we just jumped and clapped and laughed and cried
Speaker 9: with every you know, just surreal. I just couldn't believe
Speaker 9: that they had came. So yeah, we was excited, very excited.
Speaker 3: And then did you just walk right out into the daylight?
Speaker 3: And where did you go?
Speaker 7: Went down to booking. I had to have a change
Speaker 7: of clothes and everything, and they had to like process
Speaker 7: me out and from that, yeah, I had to sign
Speaker 7: some release paper and then they let me go. They
Speaker 7: finally let me go.
Speaker 3: Was it an hour or three hours? How long did
Speaker 3: that whole process take?
Speaker 7: I think about an hour and a half.
Speaker 3: And everybody was there waiting for you when you came
Speaker 3: out and walked down the steps like in the movie
Speaker 3: or something like.
Speaker 7: That, And that was the true exciting moment. Beautiful. It
Speaker 7: was a beautiful day, sun was out and everything. I
Speaker 7: had a nice little breeze blowing. I would remember that.
Speaker 7: I mean it was beautiful. All of them was out
Speaker 7: there waiting on me, standing and welcome me. I mean
Speaker 7: that's you remember. You'll think. I remember just when the
Speaker 7: judge said, you know, reverse free and stuff like that.
Speaker 7: But to actually step out into society, into the free
Speaker 7: world and breathe again and not worry about all that
Speaker 7: prisent life.
Speaker 3: Where did you go?
Speaker 7: I went to the Innocent Project, off a little indwl
Speaker 7: and give her an interview, you know, said hello, thanks
Speaker 7: to everyone there more or less. Then turn around and
Speaker 7: when got me something to eat? I actually, when got
Speaker 7: me some seafood? Actually said there and enjoyed it. Did
Speaker 7: we use some fried bread, didn't I?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: He did. Some of the wife had cook some that
Speaker 4: late that night.
Speaker 7: My son's wife make a fried bread that my mother
Speaker 7: told her to me that I grew up on eating.
Speaker 7: And uh, she made me some fried breed and I
Speaker 7: always wanted to eat me some homemade fried bread.
Speaker 3: Oh, some fride red okay. And the seafood. I can't
Speaker 3: imagine how good that takes after thirty eight years of
Speaker 3: no seafood. Right, they don't give you any seafood and
Speaker 3: ain't gold.
Speaker 7: Are they, No, sir, not like you would think. It
Speaker 7: was really more like fish paddies and if you actually
Speaker 7: get to ever see a shrimp and all, you know,
Speaker 7: like the probably say falling between Yeah, I hear that.
Speaker 3: Do you have a memory from those almost four decades
Speaker 3: in prison? Was there a worst moment from all the
Speaker 3: time you were locked up?
Speaker 7: Yes, sir, actually witness and really experience a lot of
Speaker 7: not caring like I see to be in a place
Speaker 7: where that's truly no emotions being showed. Everybody likes smothering
Speaker 7: the actually the way they feel and walking around as
Speaker 7: you know, I'm not to be touched, I'm not to
Speaker 7: even be spoken to. Is it's a kind of nerve
Speaker 7: setting troubling me and you really want to get out
Speaker 7: of here. You want to find a way to get
Speaker 7: away from that. It's not a society as this society.
Speaker 7: It's a society where it don't breathe criminal It just
Speaker 7: takes the It strips you up your emotions, It makes
Speaker 7: you suppress your emotion and then you replacement.
Speaker 4: I don't care.
Speaker 3: I mean it was probably a numbing routine of just
Speaker 3: one day after another week's bleeding into months bleeding into years,
Speaker 3: bleeding into decades. But was there in that routine? Was
Speaker 3: there one day of the week that was better? Was
Speaker 3: there a day when there was any any differentiation?
Speaker 4: Well, not necessary.
Speaker 7: Oh wait, just on a Friday that we realized once
Speaker 7: we get off that Friday, we really had the next
Speaker 7: two days to relax, two dates.
Speaker 3: For ourself because you didn't have to work, that.
Speaker 7: We didn't have to work, And that's kind of like
Speaker 7: became a lot. Hour was special day. I was privileged
Speaker 7: day that we actually went to work and worked the
Speaker 7: five days for the weekend for them, two days to relax, just.
Speaker 3: Like being on the outside, with the difference being that
Speaker 3: in an goal, you're making somewhere between two cents and
Speaker 3: twenty one cents an hour, right, yes, sir, Yeah, because
Speaker 3: we've heard about how they pay some people four cents
Speaker 3: and keep two cents as attacks. So now you're here
Speaker 3: in New York and you know, obviously we're super happy
Speaker 3: to have you here and seeing the sights and running
Speaker 3: around like a movie star or something like that, right,
Speaker 3: going to shows and restaurants and whatnot. It must be
Speaker 3: just a surreal experience all the way around. Does it
Speaker 3: seem like a dream.
Speaker 7: It does because everything I had explained that I would
Speaker 7: like to do and see I'm actually having an opportunity
Speaker 7: to do it. I never actually had opportunity to week now,
Speaker 7: and none that I have been afforded. It's just like
Speaker 7: really a dream coming true. Even flying on the plane
Speaker 7: was my first experience every in life.
Speaker 3: Well, that's going to be a trip before we wrap up,
Speaker 3: and I want to give everybody a chance to say
Speaker 3: some last words, and I'll start with you and Essa.
Speaker 3: I hope you'll talk a little bit more about the
Speaker 3: problem with cases in which I would identification is the
Speaker 3: only evidence, and how people should approach that when they're
Speaker 3: called to be on a jury, and how they should
Speaker 3: interpret that, especially in a case like this where it's
Speaker 3: across racial identification.
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
Speaker 8: You know, we know so much more today about the
Speaker 8: problems with memory and eyewitness identification, and it is the
Speaker 8: leading cause of wrongful convictions in the DNA cases in
Speaker 8: Louisiana right now. Unfortunately, they have not adopted reforms that
Speaker 8: we know could lead to a reduction in mistaken eyewitness identifications.
Speaker 8: And so that's an effort of the Innocence Project and
Speaker 8: Innocence Project New Orleans to try to make sure that
Speaker 8: Louisiana adopts reforms that could reduce wrongful convictions based on misidentification,
Speaker 8: and just in general, you know, we should take a
Speaker 8: step back in the criminal justice system and say, you know,
Speaker 8: are we willing to send people to prison based on
Speaker 8: an eyewitness identification alone that has no cooperation? I mean,
Speaker 8: what do we do in those cases where the only
Speaker 8: piece of evidence is an eyewitness identification, a piece of
Speaker 8: evidence that we know is very unreliable.
Speaker 6: So we need to enact reforms.
Speaker 8: When people are our juries, they should, you know, really
Speaker 8: understand that even though this type of evidence is convincing.
Speaker 8: You know, if you have an eyewitness who points the
Speaker 8: finger and says that's the person who raped me.
Speaker 6: They may believe it.
Speaker 8: They probably genuinely believe it, and they've come to believe it,
Speaker 8: but that doesn't mean that it's right and mistaken. Eyewitness
Speaker 8: identification happens at alarming rates, and we have to look
Speaker 8: at the conditions under which the identification was made. We
Speaker 8: have to look at the process under which the identification
Speaker 8: was made and make sure that it wasn't suggestive. And
Speaker 8: we need to rethink about indigen defense in this country.
Speaker 8: I mean, Malcolm did hire a lawyer, but the lawyer
Speaker 8: he hired was based on very limited means.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought up the thing about the indigen
Speaker 3: defense because you talk about a broken system. Last year
Speaker 3: in New Orleans, the fifty two public defenders handled approximately
Speaker 3: twenty thousand cases, so that, if you do the simple math,
Speaker 3: is about four hundred cases per person per lawyer, and
Speaker 3: courts are closed on the weekends, so that means they
Speaker 3: were processing. And I'd say processing because there's really more
Speaker 3: processing than representing one and a half clients per day.
Speaker 3: So when you really think about it, what kind of
Speaker 3: time did they have to spend? And in fact, the
Speaker 3: head of the Public Defenders Association down there, I forgot
Speaker 3: what it's called, actually refused to let his lawyers handle
Speaker 3: any felony cases until he gave him more lawyers because
Speaker 3: he's said, I'm not going to just process people into prison.
Speaker 3: It's a very principled stand. I think they ended up
Speaker 3: giving him like eight or nine more lawyers. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's a drop in the bucket, but at least it's
Speaker 3: a little bit better. But yeah, that's the system that
Speaker 3: we're in, and as long as we're in that system,
Speaker 3: there's going to be another Malcolm Alexander every day, every hour.
Speaker 3: You just don't have a shot. You don't have a shot.
Speaker 3: So before we get to the star of our show,
Speaker 3: for the closing thoughts, Malcolm Junior, you've been through so much,
Speaker 3: I would love to get any anything that you want
Speaker 3: to share with the audience about, you know, any thoughts
Speaker 3: you have at all.
Speaker 4: Just never give up on your family.
Speaker 9: You know it'd be a rough road going through that
Speaker 9: and seeing someone you love that's incarcerated like that, knowing
Speaker 9: that they are innocent, and you have all kind of
Speaker 9: mixed emotions Like I said, you be mad, you be sad,
Speaker 9: and everything else and all above. But just stay prayed
Speaker 9: up and just keep hoping and wishing that something of breaking.
Speaker 9: Thanks to the Innocent Project. I thank them for everything
Speaker 9: they have done for myself, my dad and my family,
Speaker 9: putting him back in my life because I never thought
Speaker 9: this day'll come. So it's just like unbelievable for me,
Speaker 9: for my grandmother, it's like waking up to be able
Speaker 9: to talk to him. I don't got to be worried
Speaker 9: about waiting on the phone call. It's just just out,
Speaker 9: you know, I'm forty now. He went when I was two,
Speaker 9: but we still got a lot of time that we can,
Speaker 9: you know, share and him being here for my son,
Speaker 9: and so I'm just thankful that everybody, you know, most
Speaker 9: of my family still hear that can enjoy him and
Speaker 9: live the rest of our life with him, you know.
Speaker 4: So I'm definitely happy for.
Speaker 3: That your grandson will get a chance to hear this.
Speaker 3: And is there anything specific you want to say either
Speaker 3: about him or to him?
Speaker 7: Well, actually, I've been out there life. I've been out
Speaker 7: their life a long time, and for that I like
Speaker 7: to apologize not only to my son but also to
Speaker 7: my grandson. And I like to see that I'm really
Speaker 7: proud of my son for what he actually has done
Speaker 7: with his life and sending it over to my grandson.
Speaker 7: He done well with my grandson, but I can't say
Speaker 7: no more to either one of them out tied the
Speaker 7: fact that really I love him and being here with him,
Speaker 7: it's actually gonna give me opportunity to show just how
Speaker 7: much I really love.
Speaker 3: Him out the moment we've all been waiting for. And
Speaker 3: what else can you share with our audience.
Speaker 7: Well, he touched on something there and like I said,
Speaker 7: and being there. You know, you never lose thought of
Speaker 7: your family, and especially important that your family never lose
Speaker 7: thought of you. So usually like setting the gold for yourself,
Speaker 7: and your goal is to return back to your loved ones.
Speaker 7: But most of us actually never Like I said, I
Speaker 7: never felt I never realized how much that had affect them.
Speaker 7: You know, I guess I was so caught up in
Speaker 7: trying to get back to him, I never took the
Speaker 7: time out to think about how that affect them. And
Speaker 7: since I've been out and being like, man, y'all really
Speaker 7: missed me. You know, It's like y'all really kept love
Speaker 7: for me. You know, it just wouldn't saying it or
Speaker 7: even with the idea of just doing their things like
Speaker 7: seeing me money anything like that. It was like, we
Speaker 7: need you, and I guess see just nice and doing
Speaker 7: that you is really love.
Speaker 3: I guess that says it all. Yeah, all I can
Speaker 3: say about that is again, thank you for being here.
Speaker 3: I wish you all the blessings that life has to offer.
Speaker 3: You know, I hope you live to be a great
Speaker 3: grandfather and a great great grandfather and then everything goes
Speaker 3: your way. So thanks again for sharing your story, and
Speaker 3: to all of you Malcolm Junior Andessa, thanks again for
Speaker 3: being here and you've been listening to a truly extraordinary
Speaker 3: man and an amazing episode of Wrongful Conviction. Thank you,
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you. Don't forget to give us a
Speaker 3: fantastic review.
Speaker 4: Wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 3: It really helps. And I'm a proud donor to the
Speaker 3: Innocence Project and I really hope you'll join me in
Speaker 3: supporting this very important cause and helping to prevent future
Speaker 3: wrongful convictions. Go to Innocenceproject dot org to learn how
Speaker 3: to donate and get involved. I'd like to thank our
Speaker 3: production team, Connor Hall and Kevin Wartis. The music in
Speaker 3: the show is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
Speaker 3: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction
Speaker 3: and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction with
Speaker 3: Jason Flamm is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts
Speaker 3: and association with Signal Company Number one