1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:05,160 Speaker 1: Hey, what's up? Family? 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 2: Latino USA is coming to Los Angeles. We're having a 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 2: live show on Sunday, June twenty sixth at the Theater 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: at the Ace Hotel, and we want you to take 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: center stage. 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: So here's what we're. 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: Asking our dear listeners, who are Angelinos. What do you 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 2: love about your city? What's your favorite spot? What makes 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 2: La such a special place for Latinos and Latinas and LATINX. 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 2: Call us at six four six five seven one one 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: two two four with your message and we might play 12 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: your call on stage at our live show. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: Also, why don't you join us in person? 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: The show is part of kpcc's public Radio POLUSA. You 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 2: can buy your tickets at kpcc dot org slash Pealosa. 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear your love notes to Los Angeles. 17 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: Miss Gei, loci guertidas inos bemos fronto la lo te 18 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 2: ba yas from Utromedia and PRX. It's let you know 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 2: usay I'm Mariao Hoosa. Today, President Joe Biden promised to 20 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 2: make immigration policy a top priority. 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: In his administration. 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 2: So how's he doing. President Joe Biden made many campaign 23 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: promises on immigration and came into office with an ambitious 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: agenda to repair the harmful border policies set forth by 25 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: former President Donald Trump. Immigration has always played a key 26 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 2: role in elections, so as we move closer to the 27 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two midterms, we're taking a look into where 28 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: the Biden administration stands on immigration and how or if 29 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: this is going to mobilize voters. We're going to continue 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: our twenty twenty two election cycle coverage here at Latino USA, 31 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 2: and I'm joined by my In the Thick political podcast 32 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: co host Julyo Cardarella. We're joined by guest Camilo Montoya Galvez, 33 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 2: who's the immigration reporter at CBS News. So, hello everyone, 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: and welcome to Latino USA. 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 3: Hey Maria, Hi Maria, and Julio, thanks for having me. 36 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: So you've kind of been living the immigration story, you know, 37 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 2: your whole life, and now you're an immigration reporter at 38 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: CBS News. So congratulations on being able to report on 39 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 2: this issue with this kind of perspective, which is your 40 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: life perspective, because we're going to be diving deep into 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: immigration policy right now and specifically where it stands in 42 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 2: terms of immigration reform. Basically, you know, what is up 43 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: with the state of immigration and policy right now in 44 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: the United States. So since President Joe Biden came into office, 45 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: we've been keeping track of where his administration stands unfulfilling 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 2: their campaign promises on immigrant He did have an ambitious 47 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 2: agenda and frankly ran on a campaign to overhaul in 48 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: humane border policies set forth by former President Donald Trump. 49 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: He said he. 50 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 2: Would consider including halting all deportations. Now he has made 51 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 2: some achievements. I've just been at the border wall between 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: Arizona and Mexico. We have seen that the construction there 53 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: has stopped. He did start a task force that has 54 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: reunited over one hundred children with their parents so far, 55 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: and really that's a drop in the bucket when you're 56 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: talking about a couple of thousand. These were children who 57 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: were forcibly separated under the Trump administration. The deportations have continued, though, 58 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: and there are also these Trump era laws that continue 59 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: well into the Biden administration, for example Title forty two, 60 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: and also the Migrant Protection Protocols or MPP, which is 61 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: also known as the Remain in Mexico policy. It's a 62 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: policy that basically forces refugees and migrants to remain in 63 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: Mexico not be able to come into the United States 64 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: and begin their process here. And this is a policy 65 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: that Biden himself has called dangerous and inhumane. 66 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 4: This is the first president history of United States of 67 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 4: America that is, anybody seeking asylum has to do it 68 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 4: in another country. You come to the United States and 69 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 4: you make your case that I seek asylum based on 70 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 4: the following on the following premise, why I deserve an 71 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 4: under American law. They're sitting a squalor on the other 72 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 4: side of the river. 73 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: Now. 74 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 2: It's also important to note that some of Biden's proposals 75 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: and actions, for example, ending MPP the Remain in Mexico policy, 76 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: and ending Title forty two, have indeed been blocked or 77 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: reversed by federal courts. So Title forty two was supposed 78 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 2: to be lifted on May twenty third, but a Trump 79 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: appointed federal judge in Louisiana, Robert Summerhayes, he just blocked 80 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 2: the Biden administration from ending the Trump era Public Health Order. 81 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: So again, immigration was a key policy issue that Biden 82 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: used to distance himself from Trump during the campaign trail. 83 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 2: So we're over a year in Camilo, right, you know, 84 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: as somebody who's been reporting on this so deeply during 85 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: the entirety of the Biden administration. 86 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: They say, don't listen to what I say, see what 87 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: I do. 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 2: So according to what Biden has done, what is the 89 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: takeaway of his policies? 90 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 5: Sure? 91 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 6: So? 92 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: Under the Trump administration, we saw numerous restrictions on legal immigration, 93 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: on refugee resettlements, on green card applications. We saw hardline 94 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 3: policies at the US Mexico border to deter migrants and 95 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: asylum secrets from coming here, including the so called Remain 96 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 3: in Mexico policy that you mentioned by the President. Biden 97 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: during the campaign promise to reverse many of these policies, 98 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 3: calling them in humane and draconian, and promising them more humane, orderly, 99 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: and safe immigration system. So far, I think the administration's 100 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 3: record on immigration has been mixed. We've seen the administration 101 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: reverse many of the Trump era limits on legal immigration. 102 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: It has expanded refugee resettlement. It resettled tens of thousands 103 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: of Afghans, it is now resettling thousands of Ukrainians. It 104 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 3: has expanded eligibility for green cards, and it is slowly 105 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 3: trying to rebuild the legal immigration system so that more 106 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 3: workers and immigrants can come here at the US Mexico border. 107 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: It's where things get a little bit more complicated. Divided 108 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 3: administration did reverse some policies, like the Remain in Mexico 109 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: policy during his first week in office, but notably, it 110 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 3: has kept the most sweeping border restriction that the Trump 111 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 3: administration ever enacted, which is called Title forty two. Title 112 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: forty two is supposed to be a public health authority 113 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 3: theorized by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to 114 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 3: stop the spread of a contagious disease. The trub administration 115 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 3: invoked this law in March of twenty twenty over the 116 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 3: objections of CDC public health experts who do not believe 117 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 3: that there was a sound public health justification for invoking 118 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: this World War two era law, and has used it 119 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 3: to expel hundreds of thousands of migrants and asylum seekers 120 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 3: without processing their claims, and this has led to a 121 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: partial suspension of the US asylum system because under US 122 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 3: and international refugee law, the government is required to screen 123 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 3: everyone who asks for protection to ensure that we're not 124 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: sending people to places where they could be persecuted. But 125 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 3: the Biden administration, just like the Trump administration has argued 126 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 3: that it can suspend that legal obligation during a global 127 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: pandemic because of this Title forty two authority. 128 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: I want to interject there because you know, you bring 129 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: up Gamilo that this was a World War two policy. 130 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: So again, people think about what was happening during World 131 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: War Two. We see what happened to the Jewish people 132 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: trying to exit Europe because of the Nazis, and bringing 133 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: something like that back at this time, and as you say, 134 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: I mean it's important to underline this is basically in 135 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: violation of international human rights and of its own policies 136 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: in the United States. 137 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's correct, And international refugee law and US asylum 138 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 3: law were actually created following the Holocaust. It was a 139 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: way to make sure that governments in the future would 140 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 3: not repeat what was done during World War Two, in 141 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: which the US rejected some Jewish asylum seekers who were 142 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 3: relater murdered by the Nazis in Germany. So it was 143 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 3: a way to prevent that from happening again. But again, 144 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 3: both the Trump and by the administration have used Title 145 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: forty two to partially suspend that legal obligation. And what 146 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: we often forget because we often hear that there is 147 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 3: a more chaotic border, a more open border on their 148 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: President Biden is that the Biden administration has used Title 149 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 3: forty two not just longer than the Trump administration, but 150 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 3: more often. The Trump administration carried out about four hundred 151 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: thousand Title forty two expulsions of migrants in about nine months. 152 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 3: In over a year, the Biden administration has used Title 153 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: forty two to carry out one point three million expulsions 154 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 3: of migrants, so more than doubled the number that the 155 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 3: trub administration carried out. 156 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 6: So, comilo, we want to shift a bit to something 157 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 6: that I think is often overlooked in this conversation about 158 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 6: deportations and expulsions, which is that migrants are detained before 159 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 6: they're deported. So let's get into the conditions migrants face 160 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 6: when they're in US custody. We know there's a long 161 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 6: history of mistreatment and abuse of migrants and refugees who 162 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 6: are held in detention facilities. They're often in overcrowded and 163 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 6: just simply unlivable conditions. What have you seen in your 164 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 6: reporting and how is this impacting the most vulnerable individuals, like, 165 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 6: for example, unaccompanied children in. 166 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 3: Terms of unaccompanied children. They are housed long term by 167 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 3: the Department of Health and Human Services and they operate 168 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: a network of shelters that are licensed by states to 169 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 3: care for children. Last spring, Divided Administration faced this record 170 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 3: number of unaccompanied children entering US border custody, and it 171 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 3: was sort of caught off guard. Because of that, it 172 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: had to set up this network of emergency housing facilities 173 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: at makeshift shelters, including at military installations, and the conditions 174 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 3: at these sites were not the same as the conditions 175 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: in traditional aths shelters. They did not have the same 176 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 3: standards of care and services. And for example, in for Bliss, 177 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 3: which was the largest of these emergency sites, we reported 178 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 3: that there was a lot of issues with the mental 179 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 3: health of children there. From what we understood, the source 180 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 3: of these children's trauma and frustration was the fact that 181 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: they were essentially languishing in this military base for weeks 182 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 3: and even months without getting any updates on their cases. 183 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 3: Since we launched that investigation and since we reported those findings, 184 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 3: AKHS did take some remedial steps to improve conditions for Bliss, 185 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: and it has also closed most of these emergency housing facilities. 186 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 3: So I think the conditions vary. We know that government 187 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 3: reports and outside experts have strongly condemned conditions at many 188 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: ICE facilities, including because of lack of access to recreational activities, 189 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 3: inadequate services, the excessive use of solitary confinement, seen several 190 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 3: deaths in ICE custody over the past years, including because 191 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 3: of the coronavirus. And advocates on the more progressive side 192 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 3: believe that ICE should be moving to discontinuing immigration detension 193 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: because they believe that immigrants can shrug to the court 194 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 3: hearings or also be deported without having to be detained first. 195 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 7: Right. 196 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 6: And one of the things that I want to add, 197 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 6: because this whole notion of ending deportations right gets complicated. 198 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 6: And I'm citing the Washington Posts in March of twenty 199 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,679 Speaker 6: twenty two that during the twenty twenty one fiscal year 200 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 6: that ended September thirtieth, ICE recorded fifty nine thousand and 201 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 6: eleven deportations, down from one hundred and eighty five eight 202 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 6: hundred and eighty four thousand and twenty twenty. As the 203 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 6: Washington Post cited, the lower numbers were partly the result 204 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 6: of enforcement changes triggered by the coronavirus pandemic that have 205 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 6: allowed US agents to rapidly expel unlawful border crossers under 206 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 6: the Title forty two Public Health Code would a procedure 207 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 6: that does not count as a formal deportation, Sara, can 208 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 6: you just share more about that, because that's I think 209 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 6: important point here, No, Camilo. 210 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 211 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: And also it's important for people to realize that because 212 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 2: it's not a formal deportation under Title forty two, it 213 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: means if you are a migrant or refuge that you 214 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: will try again and again. It's not so easy when 215 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 2: you have a formal deportation to do that. But with 216 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: Title forty two, which is just an expulsion, I mean, 217 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: it's horrible, but that also complicates things in terms of 218 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: the data. 219 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 3: Those are two excellent questions. The tally that Julio mentioned 220 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 3: the number of iced deportations under the Biden administration, which 221 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 3: have plummeted compared to previous years, do not include Title 222 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 3: forty two expulsions because those expulsions, as Julio mentioned, are 223 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 3: carried out under a public health lot, not under the 224 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: typical immigration proceed that were passed by Congress, so it 225 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 3: does not include those over a million expulsions that have 226 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 3: happened under the Biden administration, and to be fair to 227 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 3: the administration, it has made dramatic changes to immigration enforcement 228 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: in the interior of the country, not at the border, 229 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 3: but in the interior because it has narrowed the groups 230 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 3: of undocumented immigrants who are subject to arrest and deportation. 231 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: Under the Trump administration, really everyone was fair game for 232 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 3: arrest and deportation if they were here without legal permission. 233 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: But the Biden administration has directed ICE agents to focus 234 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: on people with serious criminal convictions, those that the government 235 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: deems are a threat to national security, and migrants who 236 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 3: recently crossed the US Mexico border. So they are more 237 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: restrictive categories than the broad deportation priorities that the Trump 238 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: administration had in place. And to tackle Madia's excellent point. 239 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 3: For example, in mar us border officials recorded over two 240 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: hundred thousand migrant apprehensions. We haven't seen those levels of 241 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 3: apprehension since two thousand, but those encounters are inflated by 242 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 3: a very high rate of repeat crossings, so encounters do 243 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 3: not equal individual migrants. In fact, in March, Customs and 244 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 3: Border Protection actually recording about one hundred and sixty thousand 245 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 3: unique migrants not over two hundred thousand, and that is because, 246 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 3: as Mania mentioned, there are no further penalties after being expelled. 247 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: Many of these migrants, specially single adults from Mexico who 248 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 3: are looking for work in the US, are trying multiple 249 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 3: times to cross the border, and they're being counted multiple 250 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: times on these tallies. So yes, the numbers are very 251 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 3: high that they're also inflated. YA a very high rate 252 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 3: of repeat border crossings under the Title forty two policy. 253 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: So while we've seen concerns from Republicans and some moderate 254 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 3: Democrats that the lifting of Title forty two will further 255 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 3: increase migration to the US Mexico border, we actually could 256 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: see numbers drop eventually because that rate of repeat crossings 257 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: will likely go down because the government will actually start 258 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 3: deporting people to their home countries instead of Mexico, and 259 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 3: they may start prosecuting people who cross the border multiple times, 260 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 3: because under US law, if you cross the border more 261 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 3: than once, you can be prosecuted for a felony. 262 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 2: Except they did not used to be this way correct, 263 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: and in fact, the entire immigration policy fiasco of the 264 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 2: past decades have led it to a situation where it's 265 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 2: the same condition of the laws and confusion that are 266 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 2: adding to the problem. In other words, because of a 267 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: lot of confusion, you essentially have a lot of policy 268 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: that is creating more problem the need to exist. Which 269 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 2: leads to this interesting follow up, because how do the Democrats, 270 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 2: writ large President Biden, Vice President Kamala Harris, daughter of immigrants, 271 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 2: how do they go back to the voters in the 272 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: midterms in twenty twenty four and say, look, trust us 273 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: on this when they themselves, you know, they've kind of 274 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: put their foot in their mouths in terms of the 275 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: policy enactments that they've done. So is there any way 276 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 2: that they can campaign on this issue or is it 277 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: a lost issue? 278 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 3: I focus on policy, but I can obviously discuss politics, 279 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 3: and I think the interesting question for Democrats is what 280 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 3: can they showcase as achievements on the immigration policy front 281 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: for their base, for progressives and for Latinos who voted 282 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 3: for them. And in terms of any sort of legalization program, 283 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,640 Speaker 3: there hasn't been any right. Democrats, to their credit, did 284 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 3: attempt to pass bills to legalize Dreamers, temporary protective status holders, 285 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 3: and farm workers, but those bills have no chance of 286 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 3: passing right now because of the sixty vote threshold caused 287 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: by the filibuster and the Senate. They also try to 288 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 3: use the budget reconciliation method to try to legalize undocumented 289 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 3: immigrants or at least give them work permits, but the 290 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 3: Senate parliamentarian rejected three attempts to do so, and they 291 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 3: currently do not have the votes to legalize any subset 292 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 3: of the undocumented population here. But I do understand that 293 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 3: Democratic senators met with President Biden, including Senator Bob Menendez, 294 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 3: and asked the President that in light of this congressional inaction, 295 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 3: the administration should more aggressively utilize executive action to try 296 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: to extend some form of legal status via parole or 297 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 3: work permit, something in the lines of DACA to some 298 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 3: groups who are here without legal permission, including essential workers, 299 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 3: temper protect the status holders, and farm workers. Because again, 300 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,959 Speaker 3: while Democrats believe that most undocumented immigrants should have a 301 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 3: pathway to US citizenship, they do believe that they have 302 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 3: a better chance of legalizing the quote unquote more sympathetic 303 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 3: groups like the dreamers, the farm workers, and now the 304 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 3: essential workers of the pandemic. 305 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino usay. 306 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: What challenges is the Biden administration facing with immigration policy 307 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: and what does this mean for the future of our country? 308 00:19:36,920 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 2: Stay with us, Hey, we're back. We're gonna get back 309 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: now to the conversation about the Biden administration and immigration policy. 310 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 2: I'm joined by my in the Thick co host Jula, 311 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: and we're speaking with Camilo Montoya Galvez of CBS News. 312 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 6: If history teaches us anything, who made an executive order? 313 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 6: In twenty twelve, during a re election campaign against Mitt Romney, 314 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 6: President Obama announced DAKA as an executive order under intense 315 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 6: pressure from immigrant youth. And if you fast forward, you 316 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 6: know President Biden was part of the Obama administration. So 317 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 6: it's a play that I would be very surprised that 318 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 6: it didn't happen. I think it's a question about timing, 319 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 6: but I think you're absolutely right. Come since the Biden 320 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 6: administration came into office, there has sort of been this 321 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 6: let's be sympathetic to the more palatable, for lack of 322 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 6: a better word, immigrants, given the coronavirus pandemic, with the 323 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 6: low wage workers that have contributed to American society and 324 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 6: the economy, the dreamers seemed to be like, oh, that's 325 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 6: a given, and then the farm workers so this expectation 326 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 6: of an Obama type executive order a la daka is 327 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 6: very likely what we will see this summer. And it 328 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 6: gets to this point as well of Democrats have tried 329 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 6: to move towards a more reimaginative immigration system. You know, 330 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 6: there is talk about the quote unquote root causes of 331 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 6: migration that the Biden Harris administration led with in twenty 332 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 6: twenty one when. 333 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 5: I was Vice president. President asked me to focus on 334 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 5: providing help needed to address the root causes of migration, 335 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 5: and it helped keep people in their own countries instead 336 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,479 Speaker 5: of being forced to leave. The plan was working, but 337 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 5: the last administration decided it was not worth it. I'm 338 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 5: restoring the program and asked Vice President Harris to lead 339 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 5: our diplomatic effort to take care of this. I have 340 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 5: absolute confidence to. 341 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 6: Get the job, and I do think it opens up 342 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 6: a bigger conversation about the notion of migration when many 343 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 6: people often leave their home countries because of political and 344 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 6: economic crises, wars, food, and security to find a safer 345 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 6: home for themselves and their families. But these root issues 346 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 6: are not easily resolved, especially when the United States itself 347 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 6: has played a role in causing some of these crises 348 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 6: in the first place, and many migrants can't afford to 349 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 6: wait in these conditions. So these are decades long issues, Cami, 350 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 6: given your reporting in the policy, is there too much 351 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 6: of an ambitious agenda here in terms of reshaping the 352 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 6: American immigration system? What would it take from any presidential 353 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 6: administration to actually see an overhaul of the immigration system. 354 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 6: Is it a pathway to citizenship or does it go 355 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 6: beyond that? 356 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: I think at this point, because of the way the 357 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 3: Senate works and because of the filibuster, Democrats would need 358 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 3: to make significant concessions, especially along the US Mexico border, 359 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 3: for Republicans to even entertain the idea of legalizing anyone 360 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 3: who is here without papers, and those proposals could be 361 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 3: rules that severely restrict asylum axis at the US Mexico border, 362 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 3: that continue policies like Title forty two correct, and I 363 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 3: think that illustrates how much the framework of immigration policy 364 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: has shifted in recent years. We're focusing now on making 365 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 3: some drum changes to US border and asylum policy, as 366 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 3: opposed to the comprehensive reform proposals that we've seen over 367 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 3: the past years and that have failed multiple times under 368 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 3: Republican and democratic administrations, because yes, the Obama administration tried 369 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 3: to legalize immigrants, but so did the George W. Bush 370 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 3: administration in two thousand and seven, right correct, and those 371 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 3: efforts failed. So I think if we want some durable changes, 372 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 3: I do think Democrats will need to make concessions. But 373 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,679 Speaker 3: again I don't know whether their base and progressives will 374 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 3: be happy with those concessions, because again, concessions, you know, 375 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 3: the definition of a concession is something that you don't 376 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 3: want to give away, but you have to forge a compromise. 377 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 3: So I think that remains to be seen. The thing 378 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,159 Speaker 3: about the US Mexico border right now is that Republican 379 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 3: critics of the administration attribute the very high numbers of 380 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 3: migrants coming to the border solely to Biden administration policies. 381 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 3: But the truth of the matter is is that we 382 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: are experiencing a global displacement crisis, and this is illustrated 383 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 3: by the fact that we're seeing a seismic demographic shift 384 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 3: at the US Mexico border. Because when we often hear 385 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,479 Speaker 3: migrants at the border, we think of the Central American 386 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: countries of Guatemala and Duas and Servaloa and we also 387 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 3: think of Mexico, but in March, for example, forty percent 388 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 3: of the migrants process that month we're from countries beyond 389 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 3: Mexico and Central America. We're seeing record numbers of Colombians, Cubans, Haitians, Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, Brazilians, 390 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: and other nationalities come to the US Mexico border, because 391 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 3: the pandemic has devastated their economies, Because there is political 392 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: repression in some of these countries like Cuba and Nicaragua, 393 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: because they are natural disasters, and gang violence in Haiti, 394 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 3: and so there are just issues that are going to 395 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 3: be very hard for any type of administration to saw. 396 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 3: And I think we're going to continue to see these 397 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 3: large numbers as climate change continues to displace communities across 398 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 3: the world, especially in poor areas in Central America and 399 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 3: other parts of the Western hemisphere. 400 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: Right gotm Or what you're saying is, guess what, people, 401 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 2: this is a huge global issue. I'm not labeling it 402 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 2: as a problem, and climate change is a central part 403 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 2: of this. Right, So you're talking about one of the 404 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: largest global geopolitical issues that is facing the entire world. 405 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 2: So you know, by the way, none of this conversation 406 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: about what's happening in terms of immigration is a surprise 407 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 2: to President Biden. He has been around doing politics since 408 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 2: before you and all of us were doing journalism. Right, 409 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 2: there is nothing that Joe Biden doesn't know about immigrants, immigration, 410 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 2: refugee policy. He has lived through it. So I'm going 411 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: to go to another extreme. I think that the President 412 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 2: actually and the Vice President have an extraordinary historical opportunity. 413 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 2: And New Communo brought up the historical moment of why 414 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: Title forty two was brought into existence. 415 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: It was World War Two. 416 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: It was the death of millions of Jewish people, and 417 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,479 Speaker 2: this country then said we never want that to happen again. 418 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 2: So Joe Biden could actually be the president that changes 419 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: the entire narrative. He could be the president who is 420 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: hugging the children child refugees from Ukraine and the child 421 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 2: refugees from Haiti and say we're going to create something 422 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 2: that is more in line with us narrative of which 423 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 2: it says it is a country of immigrants that loves 424 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: immigrants and refugees, And that I think could actually be 425 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 2: the secret sauce to inspire a wave of enthusiasm from 426 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 2: new voters Latino and Latina voters and black voters on 427 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: the issue of how do we deal with immigration refugees 428 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 2: and human beings. 429 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: That was a big take. 430 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 6: But I think one of the things that you've covered, Gamito, 431 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 6: when you talk about immigration policy and what Maria is saying, 432 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 6: is immigration enforcement, how it really is sort of become 433 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 6: a system that has spanned several administrations. 434 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: There's an infrastructure. 435 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 6: How deep do you think this enforcement strategy has become 436 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 6: sort of the central part of this debate? 437 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think publicly President Biden's appointees have said 438 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: that the deterrant only model of US border policy has 439 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 3: not worked, and they've pointed to the fact that after 440 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 3: the Trump administration separated thousands of migrant children from their parents, 441 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 3: we saw a huge increase in the number of migrant 442 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 3: families from Central America coming to the border. And I 443 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: think you cannot get more draconia than separating someone's child, 444 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 3: and that didn't deter migration. But what you've seen on 445 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 3: the ground is that they've continued to rely on the 446 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 3: traditional and forced for mechanisms in the US immigration system, 447 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 3: those being arrest and deportations and the title forty two 448 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 3: explosions to continue to manage migration flows, and I think 449 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,479 Speaker 3: that is partly due to their concerns that if they 450 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 3: allow too many people to come, there's going to be 451 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: a political fallout, not just from Republicans but from independents 452 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 3: who overwhelmingly voted for President Biden in twenty twenty. And 453 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 3: throughout my reporting, I've been talking to President Biden's appointees 454 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 3: who work on immigration policy, and I can tell you, 455 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 3: Madia and hold you that there are some very stark 456 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 3: disagreements between them. You have some on one side who 457 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: would want President Biden to take the approach that Maria outlined, 458 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 3: to be aggressive in welcoming migrants from all nationalities, emphasizing 459 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: the US role as a safe haven for oppressed communities 460 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 3: across the world, to expand refugee processing, to expand access 461 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 3: to asylum. But there's another camp that fears that more 462 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 3: immigration and expanding access to the asylum system at the 463 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 3: US Mexico border is going to incentivize migration, create what 464 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 3: they call poll factors, and undermine other parts of their 465 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,959 Speaker 3: agenda and anger independence. And I think so far what 466 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 3: we've seen is the more the terrans focused camp went 467 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 3: out in these debates because when we saw thousands of 468 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 3: Haitians gather in del Rio last September, most were quickly 469 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 3: expelled to Haiti in one of the largest air deportation 470 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: campaigns in US history. Many of these Haitians had not 471 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 3: been in Haiti for years because they were living in 472 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 3: Chile or Brazil. Many of the children who were deported 473 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 3: to Haiti had been born in South America. And we 474 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 3: also should tackle the question that Maria I think raise, 475 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 3: which is we did see President Biden go to Poland 476 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 3: and interact with Ukrainian refugees and hug Ukrainian children, and 477 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 3: some advocates have expressed concern that he hasn't done the 478 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 3: same for other groups. And when we look at the 479 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 3: enforcement of Title forty two, for example, Title forty two 480 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 3: has been mainly used on Central American, Mexican and Haitian migrants. 481 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 3: But when we started seeing an unprecedented number of Ukrainians 482 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 3: flying to Mexico to Tijuana to seek entry along the 483 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 3: US Mexico border, they were processed very quickly, in an 484 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 3: orderly fashion. They were granted parole which allows them to 485 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 3: live and work here legally, and in just two months, 486 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 3: the US process twenty thousand Ukrainians at the US Mexico border, 487 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 3: and so some Biden appointees would argue that that effort 488 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 3: shows that if there's political will to increase immigration into 489 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 3: to increase access to the Assailand system, and to be 490 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 3: a more welcoming country to assound seekers, it can be done. 491 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 3: But obviously they believe there's unequal treatment based on different 492 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 3: nationalities and groups and racist too, obviously. 493 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: Right. 494 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: So I have a kind of nerdy question for you, Camillo, 495 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 2: because I've reported actually on a family just like the 496 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: one you've described, a Haitian family, La Familia Felix, and 497 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 2: they were deported back to Haiti even though they've been 498 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 2: living in Brazil for the last decade and their children 499 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 2: were not born in Haiti. You're right, and the United States, 500 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 2: the border patrol agents lied to the family saying that 501 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: they were going to be taken to Miami, when they 502 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: were then taken to Porto Prance. But does the United 503 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 2: States bear any kind of accountability legal accountability for this 504 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 2: kind of policy disaster right where the United States is 505 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: now actually creating a state of statelessness for the people 506 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 2: that it's deported. I mean, this is really kind of 507 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: out there, But I'm wondering at an international scale, have 508 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: you wondered about this? 509 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 1: Have you reported about this at all? 510 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 3: That is an interesting legal question. I don't think it's 511 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 3: something that the government is currently trying to investigate because 512 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 3: we have another separate investigation right Madia, with the horse 513 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 3: Patrol in del Rio and whether they mistreated Haitian migrants. 514 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 3: And while the Secretary of Homeland Security at Hando Majerka's 515 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 3: promised that that would be a swift investigation in September, 516 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 3: it's been several months and we've yet to see any findings. 517 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 3: And to be honest, I think it's going to be 518 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 3: unlikely to yield any significant disciplinary actions, I believe because 519 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 3: a lot of these border patrol agents have very strong 520 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 3: legal protections in the agreements that they have with unions 521 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 3: and so forth. But we don't know yet. And that's 522 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 3: something that the Haitian community here in the US has 523 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 3: been calling for for some time, for more accountability for 524 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 3: what happened in Del Rio or the mistreatment that they 525 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 3: believe the Haitians and del Rio were subjected to. 526 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: And it's an interesting political moment, right Camido, because we 527 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: all saw that, and so the fact that there has 528 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 2: to be you know, an investigation to see whether there 529 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: was any mistreatment. It's like there was mistreatment, and yet 530 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: at the same time, it's just kind of like. 531 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: Well, we're going to ponder about this. 532 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 6: You know, we've touched upon this being an ongoing issue, right. 533 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,800 Speaker 6: I think the challenges that the current administration is facing 534 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 6: they're not unique to this administration. And we've seen sort 535 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 6: of a swing in the extremity of immigration policy obviously 536 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 6: in the last thirty years. 537 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: The argument can be made that. 538 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,240 Speaker 6: The Trump administration took it as far as it could, 539 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 6: but there was still a foundation before there, right. And 540 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,839 Speaker 6: you know, this enforcement heavy strategy that came out of 541 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 6: the mid nineties and then got solidified post nine to 542 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 6: eleven has become immigration policy, right, and this promise of 543 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 6: immigration reform happening, and you kind of laid out the 544 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 6: realities for Democrats, it's like, if you don't have sixty 545 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 6: votes and if you're not making concessions, you're not going 546 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 6: to get anything. 547 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 3: Yep. 548 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,800 Speaker 6: So the short term consequences for lack of immigration reform 549 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 6: today for the Democratic Party. 550 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: Are they real? 551 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 6: And given the narrative of how we have viewed migrants, 552 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 6: and I would argue that there's been a lack of 553 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,320 Speaker 6: humanity in anything that we see in the last thirty 554 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 6: forty years. In general, how much of a price are 555 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 6: we paying as a country that has become more multi ethnic. 556 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 6: So those are my two final questions for you coming to. 557 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 3: Okay, not the easiest question, but I'll tackle it. 558 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: You know, journalists, a journalists, we've got a challenge. 559 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 3: Of course, I like the challenge to nswer the first point. 560 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 3: I can give you an example right now, there's a 561 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 3: federal judge in Texas who is reviewing whether DHAKA, the 562 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 3: program that provides work permits and temporary legal status to 563 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 3: undocumented immigrants who are brought to the US's children, is legal. 564 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 3: At any moment, he could rule that it is not legal, 565 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 3: that the Obama administration did not have the authority to 566 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,399 Speaker 3: create this program, and he could dismantle it. Where those 567 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 3: that leave the dreamer population right, Some Republicans at least 568 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,680 Speaker 3: do support the dreamer population. But I think because of 569 00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 3: the situation at the border, they're going to ask for concessions. 570 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 3: And again it comes down to the question of what 571 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 3: our Democrats willing to accept. In terms of your broader 572 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 3: question about the future of the country. I think immigration, 573 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 3: as we know throughout history, has been an engine for 574 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 3: growth here in the US, But every wave of immigration 575 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 3: to this country has triggered a backlash, and one way 576 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 3: or another, that backlash has subsided after broader segments of 577 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 3: the public have realized that there is something beneficial about 578 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 3: newcomers coming here, helping to contribute not just to the 579 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 3: economy but to the cultural foundation of the country. The 580 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 3: chap administration really challenged that by partisan consensus. Right the 581 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:15,439 Speaker 3: Biden administration, partly I think because of the coronavirus, has 582 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 3: not been able yet to assert a complete repudiation of 583 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 3: what the Chep administration argued. We have a key question 584 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 3: that I think will be answered in the next few years, 585 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 3: which is how the Biden administration will be able to 586 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 3: balance those two seemingly competing interests right now managing the 587 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 3: border and fending of Republican attacks there while also having 588 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 3: the ability to chowcase achievements on legalizing immigrants, on expanding 589 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 3: legal immigration, and I think that remains to be seen. 590 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: Thanks to the both of you for being on let 591 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: you know USA with me. 592 00:37:58,640 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 3: Thanks for having my ye. 593 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 6: I appreciate Maria, always a pleasure to beyond Latino USA 594 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 6: with you. 595 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 3: You know that. 596 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Lisa Salinas and edited by 597 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 2: Julio Ricardo Barela. It was mixed by Julia Caruso and 598 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 2: gabriel A Bias. The Latino USA team includes Andrea Lopez Cruzado, 599 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:35,320 Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, Daisy Contreras, Mike Sargent, Julietta Martinelli, Victoria Estrada, 600 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 2: Patricia sulvaran Alejandra salasad Rinaldo, Leanos Junior and Julia Rocha, 601 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 2: with help from Raoul Perez. Special thanks to the rest 602 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 2: of the In the Thick team as well Nor Saudi, 603 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 2: Harshana Haata and Sarah Herschelter. And remember subscribe to In 604 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 2: the Thick. Our director of Engineering is Stephanie Lebau, Our 605 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 2: associate engineer is Jjkrubin. Our marketing manager is Vis Luna Ar. 606 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 2: The theme music was composed by Zena Ronos. I'm your 607 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 2: host and executive producer Marienno Josa. Join us again on 608 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: our next episode and in the meantime, look for us 609 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 2: on all of your social media and remember not Yes Joe. 610 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 7: Funding for Latino USA is coverage of a culture of 611 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 7: health is made possible in part by a grant from 612 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,800 Speaker 7: the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Latino USA is made possible 613 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 7: in part by the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur 614 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 7: Foundation and the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the 615 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 7: front lines of social change worldwide. 616 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: Getting ready to record. 617 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 6: Okay, okay, do you want to you want some eggs? 618 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,479 Speaker 1: There we go, There we go. Ooh, eggs interesting. Okay, 619 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: here we go.