WEBVTT - Katie Goldin talks 'Creature Feature' 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.840 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:14.720 Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.400 My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. In Today, 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.479 we're bringing you a special conversation with another host in 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.520 our network. That's right, We're gonna be talking to Katie Golden. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:26.720 She's the host of Creature Feature. And yeah, this is 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.400 just a fun opportunity for us to support a new 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.839 science show in our general network and chat with just 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:37.040 a very knowledgeable host. Yeah, Creature Feature is a is 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:39.920 a great new show. Katie knows a lot about animals 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:44.040 and biology and evolution and psychology and uh, and so 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.440 we we wanted our listeners to go check out that show. 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:48.519 Get into that too. I think it'll be right up 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.879 your alley. Yeah. She chats with guests about, you know, 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:57.959 curious tidbits regarding animal biology, animal behavior, and it publishes 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.640 every Wednesday. It was kind of sandwiched in between Stuff 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:02.440 to Blow your Mind episodes like that, Right for all 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.440 those people who are like, where can I get more 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:08.200 leeches and bat sex between my two weekly episodes of 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:10.200 Stuff to Blow Your Mind? This is where you go. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.039 All right, We're gonna play a trailer before we jump 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:15.520 into our interview with Katie, and I also just want 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.160 to let everybody know if you want to check this 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:21.840 out online. The website for Creature Feature is Creature Feature 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.399 pod dot com. All right, let's have a listen to 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:34.640 that trailer. Humanity has spent a long time distancing ourselves 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.440 from the animal Kingdom. We wear clothes over our nakedness, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.120 use the stock market, and go to the bathroom and 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.840 specially designated areas. But if you take a closer look 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.400 at the animal Kingdom, you'll find blood, bands and treachery 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.200 that make Game of Thrones seem like a dumb show 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.880 for babies. I'm Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:58.480 biology at Harvard and I pretend to be a bird 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.600 on Twitter and my new podcast, Creature Feature brings you 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:08.080 tales of love, murder, sex, betrayal, and deception and the 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.160 lives of both animals and humans. We asked the questions, 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.160 what is going on in the brains of people who 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.600 suffer the delusion that they're a living corpse? How does 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.680 a romantic relationship work out between a man in a car? 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:24.280 What do you do when you find out your lover 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:28.560 wants to move in to your body. On Creature Feature, 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.840 we view nature in man from a new perspective each episode, 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.840 asking a comedian to get inside the minds of animals 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.600 so we can explore the startling connections to human psychology. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:44.080 Join us every Wednesday starting on Halloween and subscribe on 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.320 Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your sick auditory kicks. 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.520 All right, well, let's go ahead and have a chat 0:02:52.600 --> 0:03:03.160 with Katie Golden, host of Creature Feature. Welcome to Stuff 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.680 to blow your mind. Hey, great to be here. Could 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:10.160 you introduce yourself to the audience out there. Yeah, So, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.720 I'm Katie Golden. I studied psychology and evolutionary biology at Harvard, 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:19.040 and I run the Twitter account pro Bird Rights, where 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:23.400 I pretend to be a bird activist, and I host 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:27.120 the new show from How Stuff Works called Creature Feature, 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:33.280 where we take an animals eye view at human behavior 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.840 and a humans eye view looking at animal behavior. So 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.000 I love this particular angle because, yeah, we can't help 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.280 but but look at the animal world, and we on 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.280 one level, we can't help but see them as as 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.240 little or large versions of ourselves, and then we can 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.160 freak out a bit when they do something that is 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.080 totally in human. Yeah, I just think it's it's interesting 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:59.320 because there's either the tendency to other over anthropomorphizes or 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.120 under anthropy morph us. So, UM, we'll see an animal 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:08.520 behavior that we think, oh, they're feeling a certain way, like, um, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:13.400 if an insect is uh is stalking, something like like 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.200 the bullet spider likes to capture its prey by swinging 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.760 a piece of of its web with the sticky bullus 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.160 on the end, which is like this this bulb that uh, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.000 you know, it's it's fashioned after it. It's kind of 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.440 like that weapon, which is like a string with those 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.560 two heavy weights, and then you swing it and you 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.800 capture your prey. And then that's what the bullet spider does. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.279 So when you're watching him do that, you're thinking, oh, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:40.840 he's thinking, oh, here we go, gonna try to get 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.200 this fly and oh, shoot, I missed, and then he 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.360 looks disappointed. But of course it's a spider, so it's 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.279 very unlikely it feels things like disappointment. But on the 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:55.479 other hand, I feel like more intelligent animals like especially 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.920 dogs um who have co evalved with us and chimpanzee 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:04.159 is and other primates and uh uh. Sea mammals that 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:08.480 are pretty complex do actually feel um emotions and and 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:13.880 it is reasonable to attribute human esque feelings to them. 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.640 And uh so, I think that's really interesting. I think 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.359 one of the reasons that the whole like human pretending 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:25.039 to be an animal on Twitter, one of the reasons 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.120 that is so interesting is because it tends to tell 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.560 us more about like humans in the nature of social 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:35.719 media that does about animals. Yeah, I mean so, one 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:40.320 thing is I find birds to be innately funny because 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.320 they seem so self absorbed if you watch them. I 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.320 used to own a couple of pair of heats. I've 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.239 been an avid bird watcher since I was a toddler. Really, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.000 my mom used to say I would chase birds and 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.480 get really disappointed because they wouldn't make friends with me. 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:55.800 So I've always had an interest in birds, and they 0:05:55.839 --> 0:06:00.800 just they they The way they carry themselves is it's 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.440 with such arrogance and with such self confidence and the 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.760 little head bob that they do, and the preening and 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:13.120 the fluffing up, and I feel like they kind of 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:17.760 I think when our relationship with social media is at 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.800 times really great, it can be used for wonderful things, 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.800 but often it's very egotistical, very self indulgent. And so 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.919 that's why I feel like a bird is a great 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.400 character to have on Twitter and social media because that 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.880 like self preening, uh just comes so naturally to birds. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:39.760 And it's really fun to explore the kinds of self 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.680 centeredness that I think we we all have to a 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.800 certain extent where everything is about us. We're uncomfortable when 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.920 we're talking about things that aren't about us, and uh 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.520 so it's it's just fun to explore that from a 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.440 little acute, little bird. Another thing I love about human 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.480 contemplations of the animal, Uh it comes to into these 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.719 sort of folk ideas that we have about like, say 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.360 what certainly what our pets are, but also regarding things 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:09.880 like the squirrel. Uh. This is something that we we 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:13.400 talked about on on our show recently about uh getting 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.440 down into the meat eating habits of the of the squirrel, 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.680 and also some of the ideas about squirrel predation about 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.520 not just eating, uh you know, not just scavenging for me, 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.720 but actively pursuing prey at least in certain certain circumstances. 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:31.080 And it really throws our sort of folk mentality for 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.560 what this animal is out the window and we either 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.600 have to embrace or run from this this new idea 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:42.000 that the science gives us. Yeah, that's really interesting. Um. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.760 When I was in school, I did this study that 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.560 made me seem really weird amongst my peers because what 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.480 we had to do is go out there with our 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:54.680 clipboards and study the squirrels on campus. Um. And so 0:07:54.720 --> 0:08:00.000 you're just sitting there watching a squirrel eating nuts for hours. Um. 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:08.040 And one thing, they're so highly programmed to get maximum calories. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.040 So if they find a nut that has a hole 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.280 in it, they're going to eat it immediately because they 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.480 have figured out uh that that whole means that there's 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.200 a larva in there for a type of moth that 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.080 if they just bury it, that larva is going to 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.760 eat the meat of the nut. Uh. And if they 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.360 eat it now, they get that extra protein that the 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.960 meat of the insect uh, in addition to the meat 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.520 of the acorn. But if they bury it, they don't 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.680 get anything. So they've learned to hedge their beds there 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:45.400 and eat it immediately, whereas pristine nuts they will bury 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:50.240 and say for later. So they're extremely opportunistic. And um, 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.839 I don't find it surprising that they actively go after 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.200 meat because they're just so there. They require so many 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:01.280 much caloric intake that they will do what they can. 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:05.360 And I think that's kind of an interesting um. I mean, 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:09.679 it's this is not they aren't actually the link evolutionarily, 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:11.720 but you can kind of see how that sort of 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.760 shrew like mammal can be a link but from or 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:22.600 before an insectivore to uh the omnivorous um mammals that 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.360 that are like badgers and uh ferrets and so on, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:31.800 that that can evolve from those more harmless seeming mammals. 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.240 I love how the squirrel carnivory and squirrel predation thing 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.320 reveals that there's just like people think. I mean, people 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:43.079 in places where squirrels are common think they know everything 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.880 there is to know about squirrels just by looking out 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.200 the back window or something, because you see them all 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.520 the time. And then when you suddenly become aware that 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.959 they're they're doing these bloody things. Not all the time, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.040 but sometimes they're doing these bloody things that you had 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.880 no idea about, it sort of makes you realize that 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.920 there's so much to nature that you are completely blind to, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.400 even when you think you're looking at it a lot. Yeah, 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.360 it's sort of that weird shock moment you get when 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.840 you see like a heron with a rabbit or a 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.400 mammal like in its mouth and you're like, whoa that 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.800 bird is? Because like we think of when we think 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.480 of birds of prey, we think of raptors, so hawks, eagles, 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.040 osprery's the ones with the you know, the menacing looking ones. 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:31.280 Herons look beautiful and elegant, like, you know, these these 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.600 exquisite pretty creatures. But they'll they'll eat a go for 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.880 for sure. I think we were talking about the example. 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.840 It's it's in one of the David Attenborough documentaries of 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:48.480 these horrible sites of pelicans just gobbling up baby birds, 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.760 just cramming them into their beaks and their little wings 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.840 and feet sticking out all over the place, eating them 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:59.520 like popcorns. Yeah. Funny, Yeah, that's uh, they'll yeah, I mean, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.480 they got a lot of space in those beaks, might 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:04.280 as well fill it up with baby birds. Yeah, I 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:05.840 mean a lot of it, A lot of it. Especially 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.120 these these acts of predation. They do come down to 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:12.800 the the raw economy of of life. I mean you 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:17.400 see it, especially in examples of say, cannibalism um. And 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.200 and also we've talked a bit about this on the 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:24.520 show with the coprophagiah the consumption of poop, which which 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:27.240 once you boil away, boil down, you take away so 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.960 many of the human complications associated with the topic. You're like, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.120 well that makes sense for an animal. Yeah, You're you're 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:37.480 being efficient. You're recycling food, digesting it and then saving it, 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.240 so a lot for a lot of animals. It's also 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.240 like the special poops that aren't really pooped, they're like 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:48.040 food poop. Uh, specifically like in guinea pigs and wombats 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.719 and stuff, they make the little food poops pops. Yeah. Yeah. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.440 And also with the cannibalism, I think it can be 0:11:55.480 --> 0:12:00.840 really counterintuitive. So like filial cannibalism, um seem like, well 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.320 why would you do that, You're you're gonna be an 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:08.760 evolutionary dead end. But with fish, um, when they practice 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.679 eating their own babies, um, they're actually picking out the 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.920 ones that are the least fit, so the slowest to develop, 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.559 and then that way they can spend all their time 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.839 investing in the baby fish that are most likely too 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:27.360 mature to adulthood. So they're um, they're both benefiting from 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.080 the extra nutrition from eating their babies, and then also 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:37.160 the time um focused on the most likely to succeed. 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:42.959 So it's this very cruel capitalist, uh like economic um 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:45.960 cost benefits analysis that these fish do. They don't really 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.360 have any sentiment for their own offspring, going all in 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.559 on the best ones exactly. H doesn't help that they're 0:12:53.600 --> 0:13:00.119 called fries, which sounds delicious. Baby fish are called fries sous. 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.160 Yesterday I was listening to a couple of recent episodes 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.640 of your show, which I I must say, I really enjoyed. 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.880 I was listening to the ones about animals who are 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:12.600 worse at sex, and there was one that we've talked 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.240 about on the show before that I really thought might 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.120 come up, but but y'all didn't mention. And it's the 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.120 male nursery web spider. Do you do you know about 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.040 this one? Tell me a little more about it. The 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.319 it's the one that so they bring nuptial gifts that 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.280 in order to yeah, to woo the female spiders. The 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.200 males bring like a package that's supposed to be a 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.240 food item wrapped in silk. But the way that the 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:38.480 bad gift giving comes in is that a lot of 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:41.760 them try to pass off a insect husk that they 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.199 have already drained of all the delicious fluids, or like 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.000 a little or like a little twig. Yeah, yeah, just 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.240 like nothing, and they're they're trying to cheat and such 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.240 dirt bags. It's yeah, So I've actually I have heard 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.360 of this and I've done a little bit of reading 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.160 about it, and it's it's so interesting because they'll do 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:03.160 a really elaborate wrapping jobs. So it'says if someone hands 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:08.319 you this beautifully wrapped gift with bows and ribbons and spangles, 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.840 and then uh, it takes you, like it takes you 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.440 a long time to unwrap it, and as you're unwrapping it, 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.440 there like making the moves on you, and like by 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.480 the time you open the gift and it's like a rock, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:23.120 they've already copulated with you. And then you're like, hey, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.760 get back here, but then they're they're running off laughing. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.440 I think we did read a study, just off my memory, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.240 I think we were a study when we talked about 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.360 this that found that the ones who brought bad gifts 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.320 were more likely to be the victims of sexual cannibalism afterwards. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.920 That's right, So, like I mean, it makes sense too. 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.600 So if you've brought a you're you're taking a big 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.000 risk there because while you are getting rid of the 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.560 cost of hunting for a piece of food, Um, once 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.800 they open it and nothing's there, they're gonna go to 0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.160 prey mode because or pre it or more mode because 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.560 they don't have a snack. So you know, they're like, oh, hey, 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.680 well there's a snack over there that was just having 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.280 sex with me, so I'll eat that. Do you do 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.680 you have a favorite example that you wanna tell the 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:16.160 stuff to blow your mind crowd about from the Bad 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:21.440 Sex episode? Well, I think my favorite is, um the 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:31.440 uh the new to branch uh having disposable penises, because um, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:37.240 it's really interesting. So uh they will have, uh, they'll 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.920 copulate and then after copulation, they'll just shed their penis. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.280 Um and oh, by the way, new tole branches are 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:50.680 these really interesting? They look like um, uh they're a 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:56.720 marine animal that looks like a sort of beautiful snails 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.400 or slug with all these colors and there are pretty 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:06.800 neat looking um and so uh it'll once it sheds 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.880 the penis, it grows one back within twenty four hours 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:15.640 because it actually has this big coil of um of 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.400 genital material uh inside of its body, and so it's 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.400 like a fruit by the foot that just kind of 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.480 like um keeps coming out. And the reason it does this, 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:31.640 it actually has a really good reason. So it's too 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:38.240 basically ensure that when it copulates, it's given like it's 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:42.840 all fresh um uh sperm material. So it's all its 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:47.600 own sperm material, and it's able to um. It's like 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.360 decreases the chance that it's going to get uh sperm 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:57.120 from a previous copulation with the other new to branch 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.360 on its penis, and then if it sheds, it puts 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.600 a new one in. Then it's like guaranteed that that 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.720 this is gonna be all its own genetic material. And 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:15.399 it's like the lysol wipe method of mating. Yeah, I 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.359 was thinking when I was listening to that of like 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.800 those things where you tear a ticket off at the 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:25.480 at the deli counter or something number forty two, servicing 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:29.480 number forty two. These are beautiful creatures, though I was 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:31.520 just looking at images of them. They look kind of 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:39.240 like eighties glam rock slugs. They really do um. They 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.520 and there's so many different kinds. Some of them look 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.239 like dragons. Some of them look like a scrunchy from 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.439 the eighties, like you were saying, they're uh, they're beautiful. 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:55.480 Animals are also hermaphrodites, so they they have the capability 0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:00.280 of having both sexual organs, which is really interesting. All Right, 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:01.880 we need to take a quick break, but we will 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.280 be right back with more of our conversation with Katie. 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:10.720 Thank thank Alright, we're back now on Creature Feature. It's 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.000 it's of course, not only just about animals. It's also 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.720 about the guests that you have on to discuss these animals. Uh. 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.080 So each episode has a particular guest in a particular 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:23.560 theme or topic in place. How do you go about 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.240 putting those two together, Like which comes first, the guests 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.520 or the topic? Well, so all right, it's usually the 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.000 topic first, so I'll write my notes, and then I 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.120 kind of tried to think about guests who might fit 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.920 best with that topic. So, for instance, I was really 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:45.679 interested in looking at vices in um uh in the 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:50.400 animal world, so drug use drinking, birds who get drunk, uh, 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:55.040 animals who seek out natural highs um and so the 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.080 guest I chose. Robert Evans has written a book on 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.240 the history of advice and he talks a little bit 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:06.080 about the evolutionary history of getting drunk and uh so 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.639 he was perfect for that episode also because he's tried 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.920 out some really interesting drugs. Yeah, he's He of course 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.920 is also the host of Behind the Bastards. That's right, 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.240 that's right, it's a great podcast. So earlier you mentioned 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.120 that when you were a child you were not able 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.840 to actually make friends with birds. And on the show 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.680 on Creature feature you interview humans. But if you could 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:31.000 have one bird on the show as a guest, and 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.360 you could actually speak to that bird and ask you questions, 0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.119 which bird species would you choose? Oh, that's a really 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:43.919 good question. I think, uh, any species of parasitic birds, 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:50.720 so cuckoos or cowbirds or honey guides because they're so sneaky. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.280 Um if for those of you who don't know, cuckoos 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:59.399 will uh lay their eggs in the nests of host 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.880 species these uh and trick them into raising their own young. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.200 And they use a lot of different strategies, like sometimes 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:11.200 the baby chicks have voices that sound like a bunch 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.080 of baby birds, So then the host species feels compelled 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.000 to feed it way more food than they would normally 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.919 feed a single baby bird. They also push out the 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.720 babies from the nests. Um. And when we'll kill the 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:30.480 host species, real babies. Um. And sometimes the cuckoo parents 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:35.040 will disguise themselves as raptors, so have the uh have 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.400 stripes on their bellies and curved beaks that will look 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.440 make them look like predatory birds. Um. And they're so 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:46.640 devious that I feel like it would be they would 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:51.679 be really interesting to interview, like like interviewing criminal or 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.520 something where it's just like like why why do you 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:59.280 do this? And um, uh like how how could you 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:05.280 so like a hard hitting sixty minutes styled Yeah, yeah, 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:13.520 like Frost v. Nixon like me versus Birdston, Like why 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:15.520 did they always keep going back into the prison to 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.040 interview Charles Manson again? It's like is he going to 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.919 have something good to say this time? Yeah? Like a 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:26.159 true bird crime podcast where yeah, like like why do 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:31.760 you do these crimes? Birds? Stop it? So I've got 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:34.440 another question along those lines. I assume you have the 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:39.080 same kind of uh attitude in general toward animal life 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:40.720 that we do, which is like we try not to 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.639 have negative emotions about animal behaviors and and always just 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.280 like have a sense of wonder about the natural world 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.119 and positive feelings about animals, even when they do things 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.280 that if humans did then we would find them disgusting. 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:54.959 But is there an animal that you find you you 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:59.480 can't separate your emotional reaction from, Like there's just some 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.720 animal that you can't help but feel contempt for even 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.960 though you know you shouldn't. Yeah, So I think it's 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.680 interesting because a lot of animals that normally you would 0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:15.119 feel discussed for, like spiders or even even things like 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:20.040 parasitic wasps that are really disgusting, I'm too interested in 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:25.760 to find truly disgusting, So I think, in all honesty, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:31.560 even though I understand that like that cockroaches and then 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:35.240 other pests and and things like parasites. So when my 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.440 dog gets fleas or a tick, or when she was 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.119 a puppy she had round worm, as a lot of 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:45.800 puppies have the disgust I feel for those kinds of 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.400 insects is too much for me to overcome, because while 0:22:50.440 --> 0:22:54.720 I find parasites actually really fascinating, when it's affecting my dog, 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:58.160 who I love, you know, it's I just feel so angry. 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.080 So when I would capture a tick guy would be 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:03.800 like cursing at it and and be like, you know 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:07.000 you messed up now, buddy, because I messed with the 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:11.399 wrong dog. Um. And it's really the only time that 0:23:11.480 --> 0:23:14.520 I because like I don't I don't like to kill 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.280 spiders that are in my house, So like I'll I'll 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:20.879 capture them and release them outside and give them like 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.040 a little snack of tiny sandwich to take with them 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:28.480 because I care about them. But like finding a tick, yeah, 0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:32.960 finding like fleas, I really get so angry that I 0:23:33.440 --> 0:23:35.560 have to kill them because it's like, how dare you 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.560 hurt my dog? What did she ever do to you? Well, 0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:41.119 they are these are the animals that are still the enemy. 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.439 I mean it's you can't look at ketos and ticks, 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.200 mosquitoes ticks and it's like guinea worm. I mean, these 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:50.600 these things are still enemies of humanity. If there's anything 0:23:50.680 --> 0:23:53.800 that truly deserves our hatred and contempt in the animal world, 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:57.399 I think that's probably it. Yeah. I mean, like I 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:01.560 can't even though find my way to eating like rats, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.240 because I mean I'm afraid of them. I don't want 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.760 them in my house. But once one got in my 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.639 heating vent and like lived there for a while, and 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.840 I kind of halfheartedly put some traps in there because 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:18.560 it's like, well, I can't have this rat in here, 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:22.120 you know, pooping in my and where the air comes in. 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:25.560 But um it in a trap went off, and I 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:28.880 felt kind of like, h huh, that's I'm sad. I'm 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:31.680 I'm relieved, but sad. I feel bad that I killed 0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:34.040 a rat. And then I opened up the vent and 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:36.120 there was the trap with like a tuft of hair 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:38.800 in it, and the rat was nowhere to be found. 0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:41.000 And I was like, at that point, I was like, 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.720 you've deserved it, buddy. He deserved to survive. So I 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:47.320 didn't mess with it anymore. Eventually it went away, but 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:49.240 it was just like, you know, I just had this 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:51.920