1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. 2 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: Hey it's Sarah Today. We're bringing you an episode of 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: The Big Take DC featuring reporting on the ground from 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 2: the US Mexico border as asylum seekers make the dangerous 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 2: journey across the Rio Grande. Here's my colleague Salamosen with 6 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: more on the immigration debate shaping this year's election and 7 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: the real life stakes. 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 3: In twenty sixteen, Donald Trump had a simple solution that 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 3: he believed would stop the migrant crisis, build what he 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 3: called a big, beautiful wall on the border between the 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 3: US and Mexico. At the time, a lot of Americans, 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 3: even some Republicans like Jeb Bush and Rick Perry, dismissed 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 3: the IDEA simple fact is. 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: That his proposal is unrealistic. 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 4: It will cost hundreds of billions of dollars. 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: The cost, the time, the maintenance of that is not reality. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 3: And for most of Maria voters, immigration was not at 18 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 3: the top of the list for issues driving their votes. 19 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 3: Today that's changed. A Harvard Caps Harris poll found immigration 20 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 3: is now the top issue for voters over the economy, 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 3: and one from Monmouth University found that a majority of 22 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 3: Americans now support building a border wall. 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 5: One of the things we heard when we were in 24 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 5: New Hampshire for the primaries Iowa South Carolina is that 25 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 5: not only is the economy top of mind for voters 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 5: this year, but also immigration and border security were coming 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 5: up time and time again in all different places in 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 5: the US. 29 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 3: That's Peggy Collins, Washington bureau chief for Bloomberg News, as 30 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 3: the person shaping the newsroom's coverage of the election. Peggy 31 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 3: is watched as the border has taken center stage in 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: both Trump and Biden's campaigns, but she hadn't seen it 33 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 3: for herself. So Peggy decided to go to the place 34 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 3: at the heart of this issue to understand how national 35 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: politics are playing out there. She flew down to Eagle Pass. 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: That's a small city right on the border in Texas. 37 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: It's become a beacon of hope for many migrants seeking 38 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 3: asylum in the US and an inflection point for law enforcement. 39 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: That you've walked and ridden trains and hitchhiked. You can 40 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: just see in her face like she was gone. 41 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 5: Resources that we have. 42 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 6: That's the most that we can do, like the best 43 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 6: that we can do. 44 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 3: Today on the show, we bring you voices from the 45 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 3: US Mexico border after Bloomberg's Washington Bureau chief Peggy Collins 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: went down there, How are the state and national policies 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: that everyone is talking about playing out on the ground, 48 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: and how could all of this shape the border conversation 49 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 3: in the twenty twenty four election. From Bloomberg's Washington Bureau, 50 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 3: this is the Big Take DC podcast. I'm Salaamoso Eagle Pass, Texas. 51 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: It's a city of twenty eight thousand people right along 52 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 3: the Rio Grande. You can see right over to Mexico. 53 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 3: The US border with Mexico is almost two thousand miles long. 54 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: Parts of it are urban, others are desert, and some 55 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 3: parts have sand dunes. In Texas, the Rio Grande is 56 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 3: the dividing line. And the thing about Eagle Pass that 57 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: makes it unique is that it sits at a spot 58 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 3: where the river is especially narrow. 59 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 5: I mean, it really looks like you could throw a 60 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 5: baseball across and hit it. You look across at the 61 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 5: river and you think, oh, I could swim across that, 62 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 5: no problem. 63 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 3: People drive multiple times a day from Eagle Pass, Texas 64 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 3: to Padres Negress, Mexico, across a bridge connecting the communities physically, socially, 65 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 3: and culturally. There were people we talked to who had 66 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 3: grown up in Mexico, gone to school in Eagle Pass, 67 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: become citizens, now have homes in Eagle Pass, but go 68 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 3: back to Mexico to see family or for events in 69 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: a given week. This proximity and just how narrow the 70 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 3: river gets are what brings thousands of migrants a day 71 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: to Eagle Pass. They're all hoping they can get across 72 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: the river into US territory. 73 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 7: It's deceptive. 74 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: It looks really peaceful, right. 75 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: Pancha Navarus is a former Texas state representative who owns 76 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 3: a ranch right along the border in Eagle Pass. He says, 77 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 3: the Rio Grande may look narrow and ease it across, 78 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 3: but it's actually really dangerous. 79 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 1: There's a lot of crevices and limestone where you can 80 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: get caught. It'll kind of suck you in and drown you. Right. 81 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 5: The current is very strong, and many people have died 82 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 5: by drowning when they tried across the border because the 83 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 5: current is deceptibly fast. But thousands of people do make 84 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 5: it across, leaving their wet clothes on the banks of 85 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 5: the river. Telea, I can't express enough how when we 86 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 5: drove up to this part of the border. There are 87 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 5: mounds and mounds and mounds of clothes, Like when you 88 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 5: step on it, you can't feel the ground because the 89 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 5: clothes are stacked up and it's so thick. 90 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 3: Shirts, jeans, bras, children's sneakers. But making it across the 91 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: river and into dry clothes is far from the end 92 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 3: of the journey. Right on the water, right up against 93 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 3: the piles of clothes are razor wire fences with rows 94 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 3: and rows of sharp teeth. 95 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 5: It's really striking and emotional to see because it almost 96 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 5: looks like it's possible to get through them, because they're 97 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 5: kind of circles, and so it's almost like a bit like, wow, 98 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 5: I think someone could actually get through that, But when 99 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 5: you get closer, you realize that it's almost impossible to 100 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 5: get through them without you know, really getting cut or scraped. 101 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 3: There are a few spots in the fence where people 102 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: have found openings. Peggy sow one. 103 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 5: On this rancher's property, there was a part of the 104 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 5: wire that had basically been opened or pushed down enough 105 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 5: that people were able to come through. And because so 106 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 5: many people have access to social media now, they have 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 5: basically been able to message to lots of people that 108 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 5: there's this opening and a place you can get through. 109 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 5: Navarrees agreed to let the state put up that barbed 110 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 5: wire fencing along his border, but before long he had 111 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,119 Speaker 5: an experience that made him reconsider. He was walking around 112 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 5: the property with his daughter. 113 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: We came across as young girl. She was barefoot, carrying 114 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: a child and pregnant. You know, we found out later 115 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: after talking to her that she was seventeen years old. 116 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: The child she was carrying was two and a half 117 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: years old, and she had walked and ridden trains and 118 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: hitchhiked all the way from Atlantida on nudahs. By the 119 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: time we got to her, sar like you could just 120 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: see in her face like she was done. 121 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 4: I spent. 122 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: She was gashed from the wire, but she had beat it. 123 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: And so what it instantly told me is that somebody 124 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: who's walked three thousand miles and ridden trains and hitch 125 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: hike and probably been beaten and robbed is not going 126 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: to be stopped by that. I've been talking to the 127 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: guard I told him I want to shut out because 128 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: it's any humane and doesn't do anything. 129 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 3: Generally, it's up to the Federal Border Patrol agents to 130 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: police the US Mexico border, but Texas Governor Greg Abbot 131 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: says the Biden administration isn't doing enough to prevent illegal crossings. 132 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 3: In fiscal twenty twenty three, officials encountered almost four hundred 133 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 3: thousand migrants crossing the border into the Del Rio region 134 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 3: where Eagle Pass is located. So Abbot took matters into 135 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 3: his own hands. He took aim at one place in particular, 136 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: a spot right on the water called Shelby Park. In January, 137 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 3: Abbot sent in the Texas National Guard and created a 138 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 3: militarized zone. They blocked out Federal Border Patrol agents and 139 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: put up new barriers, razor wires, and buoys, all to 140 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: discourage migrants from trying to cross the river. 141 00:07:58,080 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 7: It was a ship at Contatas first, and then it 142 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 7: was a concertina wire. And then there's a new barrier. 143 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 7: I'll show you right now. That's a cycle fence. It's 144 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 7: called an anti clim barrier. 145 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 3: Lieutenant Christopher Olivarros works for the Texas Department of Public Safety. 146 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 3: He showed Peggy the new reinforcements at Shelby Park. 147 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 7: I mean this was ground zero used to be. If 148 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 7: you remember back in December, there was a lot of 149 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 7: I guess you know video images from other media outlets 150 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 7: where you would see thousands that were kind of grouped 151 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 7: here in this field. This is where that's where this 152 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 7: was taking place. 153 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 5: Do you see a market difference in terms of the 154 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 5: volume of people coming through here as a result. 155 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 7: Yeah, So December we're averaging probably in the last two years, 156 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 7: a little over two thousand crossings a day a day 157 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 7: in this area here at Shelby Park and even outside 158 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 7: of Shelby Park in the close proximity. And then when 159 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 7: National Guard took over the park, secured the park, put 160 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 7: up more barriers, more fencing, more wire. Ever since then, 161 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 7: it's been a ninety percent decrease in illegal crossings. 162 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 8: At Shelby Park. 163 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: Abbott and other Republican lawmakers count this as a win, 164 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 3: but some argue that the dip in crossings could be seasonal, 165 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 3: something we see every year during the winter, and Pancho 166 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 3: Navarrees believes that even if crossings are down at Shelby Park, 167 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 3: it just means that people will find another spot at 168 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 3: the border to cross. He told Peggy that he sees 169 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 3: all of this as a political stunt. 170 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: Having us under siege if you will makes it look 171 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: good for them, and the truth is, we're fine. But 172 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: what we need is people to stop believing that somehow 173 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: this protects anybody, because it doesn't. You don't really care 174 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: about this crisis other than to mine it for votes. 175 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: When it comes to using the issue for votes, it's 176 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: worth noting that bipartisan immigration legislation has been held up 177 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: in Congress. Biden has blamed Republicans for that, saying they 178 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 3: don't want to pass it and let him take credit. Meanwhile, 179 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 3: calling in the National Guard was just one of Governor 180 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: Abbott's moves. The other one that's gotten a lot of 181 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 3: publicity busing migrants to other states up north. We get 182 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 3: into the political consequences and the human consequences of the 183 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: bussing after the break. In April twenty twenty two, Governor 184 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 3: Greg Abbott announced a radical new. 185 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 5: Plan to move migrants away from the Texas border. 186 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: This morning, more migrants arriving in New York City bus 187 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: after bus, at least six pulling into the city's port authority. 188 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 3: Since then, the state has spent more than one hundred 189 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: and forty eight million dollars doing just that. It's been 190 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: a very effective tool enforcing the issue onto Democrats and 191 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 3: President Biden's agenda. Biden is in a tricky spot. He 192 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 3: can't tout high numbers of turnaways at the border without 193 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 3: angering progressives who are pushing for a more sensitive and 194 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 3: humane approach to border policy. But he also needs to 195 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 3: do something to show voters around the country who are 196 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 3: increasingly concerned about immigration policy that he's taking it seriously. 197 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 3: Here's Washington Bureau Chief Peggy Collins again. 198 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 5: I think in the last few months, as the issue 199 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 5: has become so intense, and as the volume of people 200 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 5: going through places like Eagle Pass has just exploded, the 201 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 5: Biden administration has realized that it does have to have 202 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 5: a stance on this, be able to point to ways 203 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 5: that they are trying to help it, or ways that 204 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 5: they can say, look, we tried to do this, but 205 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 5: Republicans are not allowing us to do this. 206 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 3: In February, Biden took a visit to a border town 207 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 3: some three hundred miles from Eagle Pass, and you can 208 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 3: hear him trying to convince the people there that he's 209 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: been trying to get stuff done with the most recent 210 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 3: border bill that's making its way through Congress. But he 211 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: says that Republican lawmakers are standing in his way. 212 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 8: I want the people to understand clearly what happened here. 213 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 8: This bill was in the United States Senate, was on its 214 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 8: way to be passed, and it was derailed by rank 215 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 8: and file politicans ranked a partisan politics. 216 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, down the river in Eagle Pass on the exact 217 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 3: same day was his opponent. 218 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: This is a Joe Biden invasion. 219 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 8: This is a Biden invasion over. 220 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 2: The past three years. 221 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: Peggy spoke with a city official during her visit who 222 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: said that all these stump speeches are not helping people 223 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: on the ground. 224 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 5: They said that sometimes it's frustrating because people will come 225 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 5: and take a photo op and then leave, and they 226 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 5: feel like they need help now, and they can't wait 227 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 5: till the election, and they don't want to be pawns 228 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 5: in this political back and forth. What we need is 229 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 5: for people to really sit down and try to do 230 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,319 Speaker 5: immigration reform in some ways. 231 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: Peggy also met migrants who had just crossed the border 232 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 3: into Eagle Pass. One of them was Nancy Lopez, a 233 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: mother of two Sally PORKI. 234 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 4: I left because I was attacked by the father of 235 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 4: my children, and I was afraid of being there, so 236 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 4: I left. I came here with my kids to give 237 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 4: them an education and to work. 238 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 3: Nancy said she traveled nearly eighteen hundred miles all the 239 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: way from Honduras, soial. 240 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 4: I borded the train to cross the river. And I 241 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 4: was worried the whole way because I was traveling with 242 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 4: my kids and it's not safe. You feel afraid, like 243 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 4: I said. 244 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 3: Nancy hoped that once she arrived she could find her 245 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 3: way north. She said her sister lives in North Carolina, 246 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 3: so she planned to save up enough money for bus 247 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: fare for her. Governor Abbott's busing program might actually be 248 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: a welcome offer, and she's not alone. 249 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 6: We have received people that come and rite when they 250 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 6: enter our place, They're like, we want to go in 251 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 6: the free buses. 252 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 3: That's Valerio Wheeler, the executive director of a nonprofit called 253 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 3: Mission Border Hope. The organization gives recently arrived migrants basic support, shelter, clothing, food, 254 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 3: phone lines to call their families. Valeria said that those 255 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: migrants have been increasingly showing up and asking about Abbot's buses, 256 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: which they heard about on TikTok. 257 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 6: It's like, Hi, I'm in New York I took a 258 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 6: boss from Middle Past to New York for free. 259 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 3: Critics say that Abbot's busing program is using migrants as 260 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: human political tools, trying to overwhelm social services in northern 261 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 3: cities that are unprepared for this sort of influx. But 262 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 3: it's complicated for people like Valeria, who are on the 263 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: ground providing care to hundreds of thousands of migrants who 264 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: crossed the border into her city each year. Valeria told Peggy, 265 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: she said. 266 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 5: You know, I understand that, and we don't want to 267 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 5: be a burden to other places. But we are Eagle 268 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 5: Pass and we are very small town and doing the 269 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 5: best that we can with hundreds and sometimes thousands of people, 270 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 5: as we were told in December across the border in 271 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 5: one day. 272 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 6: The least think we want to create iscare and difficult 273 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 6: situation in other places with the resources that we have. 274 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 6: That's the most that we can do, like the best 275 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 6: that we can do. 276 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: And she was saying, look, I hear you, but also 277 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: we're very small and places like New York and Chicago 278 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: are much bigger, so we do need some help here. 279 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 3: Peggy saw things that stunned her. 280 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 5: We saw children who were there in a nurse's station 281 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 5: that was set up because a lot of the migrants 282 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 5: that are crossing have walked for days, weeks, and sometimes 283 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 5: even months, and so their feet are severely damaged. We 284 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 5: saw one child where they were taking tweezers and taking 285 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 5: some things out of the bottom of their feet, and 286 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,239 Speaker 5: she heard about problems that were regular occurrences in eagle paths. 287 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 5: Some people who may feel like they don't qualify for 288 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 5: asylum are more likely to try and cross farther away 289 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 5: from a port of entry and then potentially link up 290 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 5: with a smuggler that they've heard of through TikTok or 291 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 5: so media. For example, we were told jump in a 292 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 5: car and then try to get as far away from 293 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 5: the border as fast as possible. We heard the state 294 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 5: troopers say that they've had issues with literally some of 295 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 5: these cars driving down streets in the opposite direction, and 296 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 5: sometimes they call it a bailout, where all of a sudden, 297 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 5: the driver will realize that they're, you know, they're stuck, 298 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 5: like they're not going to be able to get out 299 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 5: of a law enforcement at a certain point, and then 300 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 5: everyone just like jumps out of the car and runs. 301 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 3: I asked Peggy, what's stuck with her from her visit 302 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: to the border and what she'll be thinking about as 303 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 3: she steers coverage of the immigration debate going into the 304 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four election. That felt like when we were 305 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 3: in Eagle Pass and on the Texas border, that it 306 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 3: has reached a breaking, if not inflection point. We do 307 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 3: need to figure out a way to improve our immigration 308 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 3: system because the flow of migrants is not going to stop. 309 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to The Big Take DC podcast from 310 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 3: Bloomberg News. I'm Salaiah Mosen. This episode was produced by 311 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 3: Julia Press. It was edited by Caitlin Kenney and Stacy 312 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 3: Vanick Smith. It was mixed by Ben O'Brien. It was 313 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 3: fact checked by Thomas Leu. Thanks to Adrianna Tapia Zafra 314 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 3: for providing translations, and a special thanks to our Bloomberg 315 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 3: Originals colleagues and to Julie Fine. Bomi Shaven is our 316 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: senior producer. Michael Shepherd, Wendy Benjaminson and Elizabeth Ponso provide 317 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 3: editorial direction. Nicole Beemsterbower is our executive producer. Sage Bauman 318 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 3: is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. Please review and subscribe to 319 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 3: The Big Take DC. Wherever you listen to podcasts, it 320 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 3: helps new listeners find the show. Thanks for listening. We'll 321 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 3: be back next week.