Speaker 1: Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2: Brian and I you know how close briand and I
Speaker 2: are and I tell him everything, like I'll text him
Speaker 2: and like we're brother and sister and like best friend's
Speaker 2: so close that we can have that connection, Like what
Speaker 2: was this the reason? Maybe the you know, your relationship
Speaker 2: didn't work because of this? And I'm like no, no, no no.
Speaker 2: And I'm able to talk about things that you know
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to with him years ago. Anyway,
Speaker 2: recently we were talking about my situation and being in
Speaker 2: love and being crushed and being hurt and moving on
Speaker 2: and now being single and the next chapter of my life.
Speaker 2: And he's been so great and such a champion, and
Speaker 2: you know, at times he gives me such inspiring, you
Speaker 2: know words of you can do it professionally and personally.
Speaker 2: And we made some commentary and I was saying, like, no,
Speaker 2: I was in love. I don't know, maybe I wasn't
Speaker 2: in love. I'm not sure. No one's broken in my
Speaker 2: heart since you. And there was like pause, pause, and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, this is the first
Speaker 2: time life said this to him in thirty years. And
Speaker 2: I just took a beat, and I said just kidding,
Speaker 2: And I was like, I go, you may smile, and
Speaker 2: he just put haha, and then we went right back
Speaker 2: to talking about shit something else. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, So how do you feel because you were with
Speaker 1: Dean for eighteen years five kids?
Speaker 2: Correct? How? I mean? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like I'm still adjusting and going through
Speaker 1: I wasn't with somebody for eighteen years. I think we
Speaker 1: were married for we were together for I think fourteen
Speaker 1: years total.
Speaker 2: It's a lot, yeah, same, But.
Speaker 1: How is it being single? Like? How was that adjustment
Speaker 1: for you? Because I think to be with somebody for
Speaker 1: that long and you trust someone to that degree and
Speaker 1: then that trust obviously be broken and choose to stay
Speaker 1: and sort of fight for the relationship and then for
Speaker 1: it to end up not surviving regardless, How are you
Speaker 1: adjusting to getting into that single world again? And have
Speaker 1: you changed more importantly to our have you changed your
Speaker 1: bullet list of what a man has to have? Or
Speaker 1: are you still running towards the friggin red flags?
Speaker 2: Because I've read more to the red flag.
Speaker 1: Every one of our boyfriends probably could stand up to
Speaker 1: a certain degree and have a red flag on them.
Speaker 2: Red flags, I mean.
Speaker 1: Maybe, but we probably also had red flags on us.
Speaker 2: Not us why that were enablers.
Speaker 1: No, I do you think that by the very nature
Speaker 1: of our jobs, by the very nature of the immense
Speaker 1: amount of pressure that you face at an incredibly young age,
Speaker 1: the fact that you're not really having like a normal
Speaker 1: social life, a normal social dynamic with people. And then
Speaker 1: you know the press, like the stories that would come
Speaker 1: out in the newspaper, and yes, you know your friends,
Speaker 1: your publicists would say, you know, today's paper is tomorrow's
Speaker 1: you know, kitty litter or lighting.
Speaker 2: Right, my daddy say, if they're talking about your baby,
Speaker 2: it's good. Let them talk bad or good and good press,
Speaker 2: bad press good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately that's not true because that crushes your soul.
Speaker 1: When it's bad press, it hurts so bad. So for
Speaker 1: I think all of those reasons, we probably had some
Speaker 1: red flags because we had a little bit of trauma.
Speaker 1: I had a little bit of an ego and trauma there,
Speaker 1: you know. But that doesn't mean that now in our fifties,
Speaker 1: that we can't change that. So have you changed it?
Speaker 1: Are you looking for something different in your life than
Speaker 1: you've looked for in the past.
Speaker 2: I don't know yet, Like it's also fresh. I'm not
Speaker 2: sure what I even want. But one of my biggest fears,
Speaker 2: and this perhaps did make me stay longer, is I
Speaker 2: feel like in our world, it's very difficult to not
Speaker 2: it's difficult to be with a man and have him
Speaker 2: not feel emasculated, and not by our doing, but by
Speaker 2: who we are. You know, have been labeled in society,
Speaker 2: and we're not just women that make money. We're women
Speaker 2: that have power or women that have fame, and I
Speaker 2: don't know any different. Like I feel guilty, like how
Speaker 2: am I ever going to be with a man and
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel like less than me just because of
Speaker 2: my status.
Speaker 1: Because there's men out there who don't care about that.
Speaker 2: But how can Okay, there.
Speaker 1: Are men that don't care, or there are men that
Speaker 1: have their own status maybe in a completely different field, right,
Speaker 1: maybe a man is a you know, partner at like
Speaker 1: one of the top law firms. So everything he did
Speaker 1: going to school, graduating, like everything that he did being
Speaker 1: an intern working his way up the ladder, has shown
Speaker 1: that he's a really hard worker with a ton of
Speaker 1: perseverance and believes in himself enough in order to get there.
Speaker 1: So you could work at Frontier and work your way up.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. I think it's for I think it's
Speaker 1: anybody that has strong work ethic and who has achieved
Speaker 1: success in whatever they choose to do is going to
Speaker 1: have their own status. Yes, it's very hard to be with,
Speaker 1: you know, a woman who can get a reservation at
Speaker 1: any restaurant. Yes, it's hard to be you know, with
Speaker 1: a woman as a man where you walk down the
Speaker 1: street and you know people are stopping her. But I
Speaker 1: also believe that there are men out there who would
Speaker 1: take such great pride in being you know, I had
Speaker 1: going back to my second ex husband who said to
Speaker 1: me how proud he was to be married to me,
Speaker 1: and that I think helped me, and it was very recent. Go, well,
Speaker 1: that's what I want. I want a man who's proud
Speaker 1: of being with me and would do wouldn't she, wouldn't lie,
Speaker 1: wouldn't do any of these things because he's so scared
Speaker 1: of losing me. But also a man that's really proud
Speaker 1: of my success and what I accomplish. And that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I want you to be looking for right now.
Speaker 1: Not a man that you can dominate, not a man
Speaker 1: that puts you down, not a man that has any
Speaker 1: red flags.
Speaker 2: At this point in my life. And this is all
Speaker 2: I know right now. I disagree with you, and it's
Speaker 2: only because I hear everything you are saying and I
Speaker 2: agree with that. But sometimes are personal and you know,
Speaker 2: we all have our personal stuff that we've carried through life,
Speaker 2: through family, and you know, what we've learned, what we've
Speaker 2: created nature versus you know, nurture, like who knows. But
Speaker 2: I don't know if a man with you status, or
Speaker 2: has his own thing, or is proud to be with me,
Speaker 2: can still overcome the fact of a woman being I
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know this. That is depression a woman.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's depressing to think that that's not possible.
Speaker 2: Fear.
Speaker 1: Okay, can I give you an example?
Speaker 2: Yes? Please?
Speaker 1: Do you really think Keith Urban worries about Nicole Kidman?
Speaker 1: Do you really think Keith Urban is masculated by Nicole Kidman?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: How do you know?
Speaker 1: I just don't think so. I think that they both
Speaker 1: seem extremely happy and yes, okay, so I'm giving a
Speaker 1: you know, superstar rare couple ks right like he's a
Speaker 1: ginormous country star and rock star. He's everything, and she's
Speaker 1: one of our most talented actresses of all time. But
Speaker 1: I went to somebody's seven eighth birthday in Tennessee and
Speaker 1: they had Keith play at the party, and he was
Speaker 1: so joyous on the stage and there was just so
Speaker 1: much confidence that I can't imagine that that guy is
Speaker 1: worried or feels less than because he's with Nicole Kidman.
Speaker 1: I think they compliment each other and probably support each
Speaker 1: other and feel like they're equals. So it is possible
Speaker 1: in my opinion.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Speaker 1: I'm I and I really pray that it's possible, because
Speaker 1: if it's not possible, then, like I said, that's incredibly depressing,
Speaker 1: so incredibly depressing. How long have you been like separated?
Speaker 2: Four June, so it'll yeah, it'll be a year in June.
Speaker 1: And the divorce is the divorce final?
Speaker 2: No, I just filed recently, that's right. But I don't know.
Speaker 2: And this I hate to put in terms of this
Speaker 2: and men are gonna hate me up, but like caveman terms,
Speaker 2: but it's like the need and a man is still there.
Speaker 2: There's you know, obviously there's rarities and maybe Keith Urban,
Speaker 2: you know, is the exception not the rule. But I
Speaker 2: don't know I feel like it's ingrained in their soul
Speaker 2: and they sometimes can't help it because they always have
Speaker 2: that inner need that you know, goes to be the protector,
Speaker 2: the provider, provider, right, So if you're not the provider,
Speaker 2: what is your worth? And I think that's something that
Speaker 2: men don't even realize because every guy I've ever been
Speaker 2: in a relationship with, I always say, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of shit that goes along with me. There's you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, there's you know, there's the tory spelling of
Speaker 2: it all, and I would like apologize for it. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to get involved with this.
Speaker 2: And they all say they can handle it, but you
Speaker 2: know what it's like with ones that can't, and it
Speaker 2: becomes too much like people don't and especially like you're saying,
Speaker 2: like a lawyer or something that's way not in this world,
Speaker 2: imagine like paparazzi and like jumping out at you and
Speaker 2: like you know, stories written every day, makeup shit and
Speaker 2: people saying stuff I mean not saying, imagine you live
Speaker 2: this life, Like we know, how can a man be
Speaker 2: like whoa? I mean, I guess they could be like whoa.
Speaker 2: I didn't expect this, but I'm rolling with it.
Speaker 1: It's hard, yeah, I mean, listen, I don't think it's
Speaker 1: not not hard, right I do. I think it's very hard.
Speaker 1: But guess what, maybe it's really hard for me to
Speaker 1: be with somebody who has a nine to five job
Speaker 1: because I want to you know, I don't have nine
Speaker 1: to five. I want to do stuff in the middle
Speaker 1: of the afternoon. Maybe I feel limited by their career
Speaker 1: or whatever. But if I care enough about them, I'm
Speaker 1: going to adjust. I'm going to make it work. You know. Again,
Speaker 1: Let's take the attorney and I'm using the word attorney
Speaker 1: because I still to this day cannot say lawyer without
Speaker 1: my Southern accent coming up. So I'm just keep on
Speaker 1: using that professions as my example. He could make me
Speaker 1: feel inferior because he knows so much more about the
Speaker 1: law and everything that you know there are. It's both
Speaker 1: sides the things that can trigger the other one. So
Speaker 1: I and I get what you're saying, right, because I've
Speaker 1: I've had a couple of people try to set me
Speaker 1: up on dates recently, not even that, just over the
Speaker 1: last six months or so, and I said no at
Speaker 1: first because I felt not ready. And then I said no,
Speaker 1: because one was a blind date and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, no, that's not fair.
Speaker 1: You can't set somebody up with me and them not No,
Speaker 1: see like that. That is not fas.
Speaker 2: It's one of those circumstances.
Speaker 1: But my thing is not about who I am. My
Speaker 1: thing is about cancer. You can't set me up on
Speaker 1: a date without letting that person know because somebody has
Speaker 1: just to decide if they want to spend time with
Speaker 1: somebody who has a time clock. So I understand what
Speaker 1: you're saying because I can kind of look at it
Speaker 1: from that standpoint. But I've never felt like I've never
Speaker 1: felt like someone couldn't take prior to cancer, couldn't be
Speaker 1: couldn't handle being in my life. But the way they
Speaker 1: can't get and if they can't handle who I am,
Speaker 1: get the fuck out because in that case.
Speaker 2: Once you're attached, I know you've better than that.
Speaker 1: Not true, yeah, but that's why those relationships end. Because
Speaker 1: don't punish me for what I've accomplished. Don't make me
Speaker 1: try to be smaller because I've had success because I'm
Speaker 1: as you know, I'm the first person to try to
Speaker 1: build anyone up. I'm the first person to be like
Speaker 1: I want to share my success with you. I want
Speaker 1: to make you as successful as me. More so, I
Speaker 1: want to get you to avoid all the mistakes that
Speaker 1: I made. So I do that with my friends, and
Speaker 1: I do that with the men in my life. So
Speaker 1: then if they still can't handle it, then then you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it ended, and it's a good thing that it ended,
Speaker 1: because that's what's making them feel emasculated. Then they're just
Speaker 1: not seeing the benefit.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it wasn't maybe it was me the
Speaker 2: whole time. No, no, me, of course it was me, though.
Speaker 1: It's not just you.
Speaker 2: But because I've always been worried about that, you put
Speaker 2: it out there, I'm proactive, and I preemptively make myself
Speaker 2: small and plummet myself and sabotage myself.
Speaker 1: You also put the plan in their brain that it's
Speaker 1: going to be a problem, Like why are you giving
Speaker 1: them Like you're literally planting the seed in their brain
Speaker 1: and then you're fertilizing it and putting water on it
Speaker 1: as opposed to.
Speaker 2: I miss being fertile.
Speaker 1: If it's not an issue for you, then don't make
Speaker 1: it an issue for them.
Speaker 2: Okay, I won't, but I'm still and don't ever.
Speaker 1: Make yourself small for anyone. That's like I've been telling
Speaker 1: you that for thirty freakin years.
Speaker 2: You really have? Yeah, I didn't listen, No, maybe this
Speaker 2: tie let's hope. Yeah, yeah, we just have to go
Speaker 2: over like you need a new list. List a list.
Speaker 1: You need a new list, a list of do's and
Speaker 1: don'ts of If they do any of this, you're not
Speaker 1: even entertaining them.
Speaker 2: I can't do this.
Speaker 1: You have to otherwise you're just going to make say
Speaker 1: the same mistakes, just like me. I have a list.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: My first glass is if you ever cheated, I'm probably
Speaker 1: never going to date you. That's that's like kind of
Speaker 1: my you.
Speaker 2: They never cheated, How do you know for a fact
Speaker 2: if they've ever cheated on someone, that's the relationship.
Speaker 1: That's true. They also tell you they're not married, so
Speaker 1: you know, it's a very, very very dating is tricky. Listen,
Speaker 1: I'm I am so happy now. I climb into bed
Speaker 1: and the other side is taken, and it's warm, and
Speaker 1: it's perfect, and it's miss Bowie my talk.
Speaker 2: It's always better that way with animals in the bed.
Speaker 1: She doesn't kick me, she doesn't hog the bed, she
Speaker 1: doesn't take the covers. She lays there. The most she
Speaker 1: does is like get up and make a circle and
Speaker 1: then like lay right back down. She loves sleeping in late.
Speaker 2: I hate being in bed with someone and having them
Speaker 2: wrapped around you and have to sleep. But I was
Speaker 2: so conditioned that that meant he likes me. I'm worthy.
Speaker 2: And this isn't just my marriage, this is my whole
Speaker 2: past right that you know, as a woman, I'm conditioned,
Speaker 2: Like you know, we're in bed, I'm supposed to act
Speaker 2: a certain way and supposed to hit like a checklist
Speaker 2: in my mind of what a sexy female should do
Speaker 2: forgetting about like what about you're really smart, you're really funny.
Speaker 2: That stands for something too, that should be at the
Speaker 2: top of your fucking list, Like but that comes now.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, god, yeah, And then afterwards, you know,
Speaker 2: they're like curled up around you and I would just
Speaker 2: be laying there for hours and I'd be like suffocating, suffocating,
Speaker 2: and I hate it and I hate sleeping with somebody.
Speaker 2: But I always like let that define me that. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, you're supposed to so I yeah, welcome
Speaker 2: partners that like don't like like being like I cannot
Speaker 2: stand cuddling First of all, I get so cutlet at
Speaker 2: night that I have the AC and sixty one, I
Speaker 2: have a fan blowing directly on my face.
Speaker 1: Was this always or I've always run very hot at
Speaker 1: night and always needed AC and fans. But my god,
Speaker 1: somebody wrapped around me like an octopus. It freaks me
Speaker 1: out and I feel claust tophobic. I think that there's
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time for cuddling and then you
Speaker 1: go to your side of the bed. I'll go to mine,
Speaker 1: or better yet, go to the guest bedroom.
Speaker 2: I know another room. Yeah, way better my next partner.
Speaker 2: I'll never adhere to that. I'm telling you this is
Speaker 2: what makes.
Speaker 1: Them make them listen to this episode.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's the new things wore. You date me?
Speaker 1: You have to listen to my entire podcast so that
Speaker 1: you can learn all about me.
Speaker 2: Great, I'm gonna be single forever now.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with being single, though, I mean, do
Speaker 1: you really feel like you feel lonely?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: And people keep.
Speaker 2: Saying like, oh, it's because you don't want to be alone.
Speaker 2: It's not. I mean, I have five kids at home. Shyeh,
Speaker 2: You're never alone. I'm never alone, and I actually it's
Speaker 2: not that part. I just feel somewhere ingrained in me.
Speaker 2: They have that need that I'm supposed to. I'm not
Speaker 2: good enough if I'm not adored by a man or
Speaker 2: don't have a man's attention. I hate that. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't want that to define me.
Speaker 1: I think being adored by your friends is way more
Speaker 1: important because your friends are, you know, at least the
Speaker 1: friends that you should have in your life. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: probably the ones that you have now, like currently today.
Speaker 1: Those are the ones that should be one hundred percent
Speaker 1: honest with you. So if your friends adore you, then
Speaker 1: that's so much more important than a partner adore you
Speaker 1: because there's no sort of messiness there, and your friends
Speaker 1: are seeing the real you at all times, and if
Speaker 1: they can accept the real you, with your faults, your pluses,
Speaker 1: your all of it, then that's so much more important.
Speaker 1: I hear you.
Speaker 2: Oh am I ever going to be touched again? What
Speaker 2: are you talking about? But I see the way like
Speaker 2: you Chris, her best friend touch each other, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: that's amazing. You guys have that relationship because you're still
Speaker 2: able to like have that if you want to.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I mean he holds my hand and he
Speaker 1: puts his arm around me, so sure I have it
Speaker 1: feels physical perfection, physical, but I also I also don't
Speaker 1: care about like sex is just no longer the most
Speaker 1: important thing. And maybe it's because of you know, how
Speaker 1: my marriage ended. Maybe it's because of cancer, maybe it's age.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just me saying, well that just really, in
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean that much. Like
Speaker 1: having a best friend in your life, whether you're intimate
Speaker 1: with them or not, is so much more important to
Speaker 1: me that And yes, there are moments where I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wish I had a boyfriend, and then I get
Speaker 1: over it very quickly, and I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that I don't have a boyfriend and
Speaker 1: that I have a lot of affection from, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of my exes also, like I can call
Speaker 1: them at any point the day or night and have
Speaker 1: conversations and it always ends with like, hey, I love you.
Speaker 1: I love that, And that's really I guess I'm getting
Speaker 1: whatever I need from the most important people in my
Speaker 1: life now, so I don't need it from an outside source.
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking that that's probably when I'll have.
Speaker 2: My healthiest relationship once that you've let that completely go,
Speaker 2: which sounds like you have. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you're ready.
Speaker 1: I just have to learn a trust again.
Speaker 2: That's a tough one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: Once that's broken, it's hard. Yeah. I mean. Also, we
Speaker 2: grew up in a time like I don't know, I
Speaker 2: mean nine oh two to zero, Like everything a boy
Speaker 2: did on set defined you, like the tension, right, And
Speaker 2: I know I'm fifty now, I was eighteen then, but
Speaker 2: it still sticks in me. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we also grew up in a time where the
Speaker 1: men were always right. The men could basically do no wrong.
Speaker 1: The men were the quarterbacks. The men were paid the most,
Speaker 1: you know, when when they had an issue with a
Speaker 1: line or something on the job, they weren't called difficult
Speaker 1: or a bitch, right, They were, you know, a hard
Speaker 1: worker who cared about you know, the show.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, we had an issue with something we were
Speaker 1: either bullied into, like you with your wardrobe, like nobody
Speaker 1: would listen to you and I would have to champion
Speaker 1: for you and be like yeah, no, no, no, she
Speaker 1: shouldn't be wearing that, or me just being called a
Speaker 1: bitch because like this line is really stupid, or this
Speaker 1: episode is stupid and like this is Brenda would never
Speaker 1: do this, Like why are you making Brenda this? You know,
Speaker 1: very dramatic, angsty girl, Like nobody's going to end up
Speaker 1: liking her. He's that I hate Brenda newsletter that also
Speaker 1: hated Shanna Doherty. You know, like that's the era that
Speaker 1: we grew up in, so I of course it trickled
Speaker 1: into our personal lives and how we think we're supposed
Speaker 1: to be as women. Like you, no wonder why you
Speaker 1: feel like you have to have this checklist of here's
Speaker 1: how I'm supposed to be in bed, Here's how I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to cook food, Here's how I'm supposed to you know,
Speaker 1: this is how I'm supposed to mother, so that that
Speaker 1: man can look at me and say I have the
Speaker 1: perfect It's almost like the mentality of a fifties housewife
Speaker 1: while being able to still go out and make money.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and you know what the giggle I gave
Speaker 2: back then not so cute on a fifty year old woman,
Speaker 2: and like, but I not so cute anymore. I'm having
Speaker 2: to relearn everything because I fall back on that because
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, you know, the boys used to It'll
Speaker 2: be like oh cutes giggle, and I'd be like, I'll
Speaker 2: do it. I'd be like, who is that? Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then I'm like, oh, this is this is my voice.
Speaker 1: Now it's just like, oh, you just swinging all over
Speaker 1: the place.
Speaker 2: You're like on brand on brand for tour.
Speaker 1: But here's what I love hearing from you is that
Speaker 1: you recognize it. So that's the first step to adjusting
Speaker 1: yourself a little bit, is recognizing that, you know, you've
Speaker 1: never really owned your power, and and you've always been insecure,
Speaker 1: and you've always had a little bit of fear, and
Speaker 1: you've always settled for a lot less than you deserved,
Speaker 1: and it's time to change that, and you're on the
Speaker 1: right track.
Speaker 2: It might scare a lot of people.
Speaker 1: If I own my power, I would love to say that.
Speaker 1: I think it would be amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm my own worst th and me. We all are.
Speaker 2: We're our toughest critic.
Speaker 1: We are toughest critic. But I mean, without going to specifics,
Speaker 1: there are so many situations that you've had to deal
Speaker 1: with in your life and even present life, that you
Speaker 1: kind of you let it happen to you and you
Speaker 1: don't you don't stop it and say, you know, what,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You can't do this to me, and if
Speaker 1: you do do it, here's the response. It's gonna like
Speaker 1: this is what's gonna happen. And I get it. It
Speaker 1: has never been your personality. Yeah, I would just love
Speaker 1: to see you dig a little deeper and find like
Speaker 1: you have power in you. You just haven't tapped into
Speaker 1: it fully.
Speaker 2: Because I apologize for everything, I'm like, oh sorry, And
Speaker 2: if I do give my opinion and I am strong,
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh sorry afterwards, because that makes it better.
Speaker 2: I'm not fucking sorry, like I am not sorry, I
Speaker 2: say sorry.
Speaker 1: So why don't let's have that be? The first thing
Speaker 1: that you change is that you stop saying sorry. Listen,
Speaker 1: you do something horrible, you apologize for it, but giving
Speaker 1: your opinion is not horrible. Giving your opinion is your
Speaker 1: god given right. So you can give your opinion and
Speaker 1: just not say sorry. And you know what, You can
Speaker 1: give your opinion and maybe somebody doesn't like it, maybe
Speaker 1: your producer doesn't like it, maybe you know your mom
Speaker 1: doesn't like it, maybe you're soon to be ex husband
Speaker 1: doesn't like it, but it's your opinion, therefore it's valid.
Speaker 1: And by you saying I'm sorry. Right afterwards, you literally
Speaker 1: are taking away you're taking your own validation away, which
Speaker 1: is crazy.
Speaker 2: But you learn from what you see. Keep in mind,
Speaker 2: thirty years ago, what I saw was someone giving their
Speaker 2: opinion and you were shamed for it, no, and ruined
Speaker 2: for it. So keep in mind that's a lot of
Speaker 2: we look up to the strong females in our lives,
Speaker 2: and you were that for me, and seeing that that
Speaker 2: was hard. That made it harder to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I got to find a nice way to say it
Speaker 2: and still get you know, cert my passion and what
Speaker 2: I want in my drive, but in a cute, nice way,
Speaker 2: because you can't just be us and be like, here's
Speaker 2: how it is.
Speaker 1: And you saw me get like literally run over for it.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: But you also had a mom who to me seemed
Speaker 1: very strong, really strong, like yes and no really.
Speaker 2: She would say sorry to my dad all the time,
Speaker 2: really really strong, but when it came to him and
Speaker 2: personal stuff, and my parents never fought you probably I never, never,
Speaker 2: but it was, you know, my dad would say something,
Speaker 2: give his opinion, and I would hear her say sorry,
Speaker 2: and I was like, as I got older, I was like,
Speaker 2: she can't mean sorry, She's not wrong, you know, and
Speaker 2: it was nothing major, but that also got ingrained in me,
Speaker 2: Like you know, a man says I'm you're just like,
Speaker 2: oh sorry, sorry, I don't have a right to speak,
Speaker 2: what of course you do. And my mom was like
Speaker 2: my dad's biggest champion. She was always you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: she was. They would go places, they were like a
Speaker 2: team and you know, he was super creative. But they
Speaker 2: would go places and be like, you know, there'd be people,
Speaker 2: entertainment people in the room, and in his ear very quickly,
Speaker 2: she'd be like, this is so and so this is
Speaker 2: what they did. This is like she knew everything going on.
Speaker 2: And I would hear those stories and be like, oh,
Speaker 2: she's so strong. I would see her at home giving
Speaker 2: her opinions, you know, about watching you know, film and
Speaker 2: tape on somebody, and she was so smart and so savvy.
Speaker 2: And then to hear her say sorry at times, I'd
Speaker 2: be like, it was a mixed message. So I think
Speaker 2: I get a lot of it from there, But I
Speaker 2: know in my head through my marriage, Dean would say
Speaker 2: stuff and I'd be like, sorry, I'm sorry, and he's like,
Speaker 2: why are you getting like that? You're acting like a
Speaker 2: battered woman, right, I've never and he didn't.
Speaker 1: No, he never did know.
Speaker 2: And I'd be like, I'd have to think, I don't
Speaker 2: know where that's coming from. And then I would be like, oh,
Speaker 2: my mom would do that with my dad. My dad
Speaker 2: was an abusive with my mom, she'd be like, sorry, sorry,
Speaker 2: just to smooth things over, right.
Speaker 1: You're a pleaser. You just don't want confrontation. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: want everything to be super smooth, which is, by the way,
Speaker 1: not life.
Speaker 2: Hate confrontation, don't I Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: You will do anything to avoid confrontation. But giving your
Speaker 1: opinion is not confrontation, right, Like, giving your opinion just
Speaker 1: means that you have a brain and of a thought
Speaker 1: and means you have an opinion. That that's it. Like
Speaker 1: if you don't have an opinion on anything, or if
Speaker 1: you're constantly apologizing for your opinion, don't you think people
Speaker 1: at some point like you even be like, God, just
Speaker 1: s girl have a thought on anything? And I know
Speaker 1: you do, so I imagine you want the rest of
Speaker 1: the world to know that as well. And it's not
Speaker 1: like people don't see how creative you are. You've you've
Speaker 1: managed to, you know, stay in the limelight. You've managed
Speaker 1: to keep on earning money, take care of your kids,
Speaker 1: work constantly while raising five children. Somebody like you has
Speaker 1: to have an opinion, so just give it. Stop saying sorry.
Speaker 1: I feel like you were about to say okay, sorry,
Speaker 1: butting it up here. I could all work around see
Speaker 1: it coming out of your mouth, and I was like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: that's not happening.
Speaker 2: Hey, Shan, not sorry