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Speaker 1: Welcome to two percent. I'm your host, Michael Easter. Here's

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Speaker 1: an insane idea. What if we took a bunch of athletes,

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Speaker 1: rejuiced them to the gills with performance enhancing drugs, and

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Speaker 1: then we had them all compete. Now, this might sound

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Speaker 1: like something someone comes up with in their dorm room

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Speaker 1: while stoned, but it actually just happened at the Enhanced Games,

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Speaker 1: which were held in Las Vegas in May. So today

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Speaker 1: we have Chris Guyemali and Sam Egan. They were on

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Speaker 1: the ground before, during, and after the Enhanced Games. They

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Speaker 1: were talking to founders, athletes, and scientists. They were there

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Speaker 1: reporting their podcast Superhuman, and they're here today to talk

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Speaker 1: to us about the aftermath of the Games and the

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Speaker 1: rise of websites selling us TRT peptides and other products

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Speaker 1: that promise us better versions of ourselves with no effort,

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Speaker 1: just the swipe of a credit card. We'll take a

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Speaker 1: break and then we're going to bring them on. All right,

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Speaker 1: Chris and Sam, thanks for coming on two percent.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for having us.

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Speaker 3: Really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: So, you guys are about to release the final two

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Speaker 1: episodes of your show on the Enhanced Games.

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Speaker 4: It might be out by the time this episode is out.

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Speaker 1: But for people who have no clue what the hell

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Speaker 1: they Enhanced Games are, explain it to us.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so the Enhanced Games were originally billed as the

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Speaker 5: sort of steroid Olympics, which you know is kind of

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Speaker 5: the kind of idea that like Stone College students tend

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Speaker 5: to have or like, we're didn't it be sick if

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Speaker 5: we like had all these like peds and people could

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Speaker 5: do whatever they want.

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Speaker 2: But they actually made it happen.

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Speaker 5: It was founded by this guy named Aaron Desuza, who

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Speaker 5: is an associated Peter Thiel's who is most famous for

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Speaker 5: helping bring down the Gawker website from many many years ago.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, we've just been embedded in this strange world

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Speaker 5: where they convinced a bunch of former Olympians to take

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Speaker 5: some peds and try to try to break some world records.

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Speaker 2: That's basically what this thing is.

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Speaker 3: It's actually gonna say some people who aren't who aren't

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Speaker 3: even Olympians, like they got they I think obviously because

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Speaker 3: this was so controversial, they kind of had to widen

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Speaker 3: their their search and they got some people who had

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Speaker 3: never competed in the Olympics, but you know, not to

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Speaker 3: get ahead of myself, but actually ended up like beating

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Speaker 3: former Olympians.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so with the word controversy. So when I first

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Speaker 1: heard word of this, and I don't know what, it was,

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Speaker 1: probably a few months ago. You hear steroid Olympics, you

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Speaker 1: hear like Saudi money, you hear we're do some people

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Speaker 1: the gills, And my initial thing was like, this just

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Speaker 1: sounds like a giant grift, Like this sounds insane.

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Speaker 4: What is this?

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Speaker 1: What did you find in terms of that? So what

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Speaker 1: was your mindset entering doing this podcast?

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Speaker 4: And like where is it gone? Sence?

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Speaker 3: Then?

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Speaker 4: And I'm not wrong?

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Speaker 1: Am I wrong that this has kind of insane?

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Speaker 5: No? When I went in, I kind of didn't know

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Speaker 5: what to expect. It just sounded so circusy and like

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Speaker 5: a big old sort of carnival sort of thing that

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Speaker 5: I was like, dude, this could end up being a firefest,

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Speaker 5: this could end up being something stranger altogether. But as

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Speaker 5: we've been sort of embedded in this thing this whole time,

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Speaker 5: I kind of realized it's basically just you know, the

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Speaker 5: website hymns with a WWE component attached to it as

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Speaker 5: the marketing apparatus.

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Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, and so people who don't know people who

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Speaker 1: don't know hims, hymns cells basically supplements PEP dydes TRT.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean I would say for me, I

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Speaker 3: came out a little bit earlier to the project than Chris.

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Speaker 3: I went to their initial event where they announced that

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Speaker 3: this was actually going to happen at Resorts World in Vegas,

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Speaker 3: like he's sort of in May of twenty five, and

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Speaker 3: it took me about I mean, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: this says about me, but it took me about a

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Speaker 3: full day of like attending these events and talking to

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Speaker 3: people to be like, hey, I think that they're trying

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Speaker 3: to sell t stosterum to the wider pub. This is

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Speaker 3: an ad like, this is an advertise. It took me

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Speaker 3: a full day to realize it. And I would say

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Speaker 3: throughout the whole process of making this series that that

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Speaker 3: suspicion was only was only confirmed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell me what the business model is, because

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Speaker 1: when I first heard this, I was like, Oh, they

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Speaker 1: just they want to see like what people can do

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Speaker 1: if they're juice to the gills. Kind of interesting to

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Speaker 1: your point, Chris, kind of sounds like something you come

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Speaker 1: up with in your dorm room stoned. But there's a

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Speaker 1: bigger play here because they are paying these athletes in

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Speaker 1: same money. So then the questions will where's the money

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Speaker 1: coming from and how are they actually going to make money?

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Speaker 4: So tell us about that.

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Speaker 3: It's the enhanced games are funded at least at it's

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Speaker 3: the start. Now it's a publicly traded company by Christian Engermeier,

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Speaker 3: who is this sort of biopharma billionaire who's played in

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Speaker 3: the in the psychedelic space for some time. And the

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Speaker 3: business model, like we said, the way they kind of

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Speaker 3: pitch it is that it is more bespoke version of

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Speaker 3: telehealth that will give you access to both drugs that

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Speaker 3: need to be prescribed, like testosterone, and also just a

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Speaker 3: wider range of supplements. I think they sell like a

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Speaker 3: sleep supplement for Chris, I think you said it was

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Speaker 3: like seventy bucks. Well, on top of that, they're selling testosterone,

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Speaker 3: they sell the whole list of peptides. They sell NAD

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Speaker 3: and Chris actually went through the website and bought it.

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Speaker 3: I have not done it yet, but as they pitched it,

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Speaker 3: it was like you're going to have to talk to

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Speaker 3: a doctor and it's going to be more specifically suited

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Speaker 3: to like what we think that you need. But as

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Speaker 3: I understand it, that has not been the case. It

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Speaker 3: basically is just essentially the same website model as Hymns

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Speaker 3: or Row or Keeps or any of these other of

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Speaker 3: these other companies.

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Speaker 1: So when you bought stuff, Chris, so the idea going

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Speaker 1: in as you're going to meet with a doctor, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna feel like just getting a precision from a doctor.

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Speaker 4: But that didn't happen. So what was that process?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it was basically like filling out a Google doc

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Speaker 5: survey of like what are you suffering from right now?

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Speaker 5: And I was like anxiety, and it's like great prescription

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Speaker 5: on the way. I actually ordered some Sammarell and that,

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Speaker 5: in true enhanced fashion, hasn't gone to me yet because

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Speaker 5: of some logistical hold ups.

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Speaker 2: In their shipping.

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Speaker 5: Yeah pipeline, but you know, as soon as it gets

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Speaker 5: to me, I'm eager to try it. But basically the

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Speaker 5: business model is they're using this, you know, this wacky

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Speaker 5: sort of competition to sort of justify a framework that

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Speaker 5: then they could like use to sort of normalize ped us.

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Speaker 5: And that's kind of like the big overarching mission of

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Speaker 5: this thing, Like if we can provide a way where

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Speaker 5: we can sort of do it in their words like

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Speaker 5: safely and like rather conservatively honestly, like in the in

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Speaker 5: the public eye, then we can sell.

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Speaker 2: That to the masses. And that's sort of how they're

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Speaker 2: building this sole operation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So Chris, your background as you were at GQ reporting

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Speaker 1: on wellness quite a bit. Sam, you're a producer. Also,

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Speaker 1: you were a D one athlete. You wrestled at Wyoming,

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: That's correct?

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Speaker 1: Of polks you go, So, how did how did you

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Speaker 1: two get pulled into this project?

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Speaker 3: I think for me, there's just you know, there's not

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Speaker 3: a lot of people who come from like an athletic

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Speaker 3: background at the level that I guess I come from

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Speaker 3: that also work in the in the in the journalism space.

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Speaker 3: So I think that it so I think that it

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Speaker 3: was a natural fit. But I was also really curious

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Speaker 3: just from my own experience. I was fascinated by the

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Speaker 3: idea of I guess just like the recovery part of

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Speaker 3: PDEs because I just remember being competing at at Wyoming

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Speaker 3: and I think people understanding theory the training regimen of

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Speaker 3: like a divisional athlete or a big level athlete, but

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Speaker 3: like to see it actually put in front of your face,

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Speaker 3: and to actually do it is another thing entirely. And

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Speaker 3: so of you're like an hour and a half in

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Speaker 3: the morning, it's been from three and a half hours

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Speaker 3: at night. You're told when to go to class, you're

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Speaker 3: told when to go to study hall, you have to

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Speaker 3: go to recovery after practice, probably have tutors after that.

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Speaker 3: So your entire day is built for you. Five hours

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Speaker 3: of exercise, six days a week if you're not traveling.

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Speaker 3: And even at like nineteen to twenty three, my body

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Speaker 3: was messed up all the time. I still have like

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Speaker 3: I mean like I still got like I got pinkies

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Speaker 3: that do crazy stuff, like you know, like I was

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Speaker 3: beat up, and the question of like does this have

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Speaker 3: to be this way? Like are we kind of closing

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Speaker 3: ourselves off to a realm of drugs in pharmacology that

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Speaker 3: could like make athletes lives better without compromising their safety

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Speaker 3: and health. I was really interested to find that out.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I think that the answers were satisfying,

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Speaker 3: but I wanted to. I wanted to see what they

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Speaker 3: were selling.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, you're going look like I've been put

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Speaker 1: through hell on the wrestling team.

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Speaker 4: It's taken a toll in my body.

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Speaker 1: If there's this thing I could do that is not

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Speaker 1: going to affect my long term health, that seems like

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Speaker 1: it would be interesting from an athletic perspective, just to

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Speaker 1: make the lives of athletes not quite so totally.

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Speaker 3: And I think just because people don't realize how how

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Speaker 3: stringent the anti doping uh sort of guidelines are on

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Speaker 3: substances that you cannot you can and cannot take. So

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Speaker 3: study that came up like time and time again with

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Speaker 3: the athletes. We were interviewing one one of the athletes,

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Speaker 3: Megan Romano, who came out of retirement after like ten

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Speaker 3: years a swimmer. She was like, I was even I

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Speaker 3: was afraid to take ibraprofen because you never know what's

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Speaker 3: going to be tainted. You never know what's going to

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Speaker 3: get you banned. Like the list changes constantly. The book

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Speaker 3: of like wat of guidelines is like a tone of

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Speaker 3: different substances that you can and cannot take. It changes,

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Speaker 3: it changes constantly, And it was also just creative without athlete,

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Speaker 3: without athlete input. So for me, I was just really

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Speaker 3: interested in how this could affect the athlete experience.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, So you kind of mentioned who

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Speaker 1: is behind this, but how did this whole idea start

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Speaker 1: to get legs of the enhanced games.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so Aaron Desusa sort of like was kicking around

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Speaker 5: a bunch of ideas post his Gawker project a couple

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Speaker 5: of years ago, and he presented this sort of idea

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Speaker 5: to Peter Teel, who's one of his buddies, and was like, hey,

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Speaker 5: you know what if we threw a sort of steroid

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Speaker 5: Olympics that you know, sort of allowed us to put

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Speaker 5: on this big, big show, We'll create a lot of noise,

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Speaker 5: it'll cause a lot of mischief, and from there we

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Speaker 5: can sort of develop and reverse engineer as sort of

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Speaker 5: business plan. So I think they kind of went in

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Speaker 5: with the big, nasty, sort of like you know, a

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Speaker 5: dirt kicking idea, and then they sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 5: we're building the plane on the way down.

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Speaker 2: To mix every metaphor possible to describe this, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so in a way, yes, it does have elements

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Speaker 1: of the this is an idea that you'd come up

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Speaker 1: with in the dorm room, all stoned. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: it's coming from two people that have billions of dollars

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Speaker 1: and they're like, hey, we could actually figure this thing out,

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Speaker 1: and then they also have the sort of gear in

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Speaker 1: their mind going all right, and then how do we

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Speaker 1: turn this into a super profitable business potentially?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And so that's that's sort of how I came

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Speaker 5: onto it too, because Aaron and Christian Angermeier went on

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Speaker 5: Joe Rogan's podcast, like not too long ago. I think

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Speaker 5: it was like in was it twenty twenty two or

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty three?

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Speaker 2: I believe it was twenty four, twenty four, twenty four.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So they went on, and you know, when I

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Speaker 5: was at GQ, like, sort of my big story that

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Speaker 5: I wrote over there was the story about the guys

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Speaker 5: who got their legs artificially lengthened during COVID secretly, And

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Speaker 5: so for me, I was like, I kind of want

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Speaker 5: my next big story to be about weird stuff we

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Speaker 5: do our bodies the way we can augment it and

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Speaker 5: sort of improve it. I'm using air quotes here, but

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Speaker 5: improve our bodies. And when I heard them on Rogan,

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Speaker 5: they were like Carnival Barkers basically, they were kind of like,

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Speaker 5: you know, this is going to change everything. This is

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Speaker 5: going to like, you know, sure in a new paradigm

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Speaker 5: for enhancement and the future of humanity. And then when

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Speaker 5: I actually wrote them and like you know, kind of

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Speaker 5: pitched myself to be the guy to write a big

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Speaker 5: magazine story on it, it was kind of like, oh,

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Speaker 5: this is just like another business. And so there was

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Speaker 5: like this like incongruity between what they were actually pitching

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Speaker 5: and what that actual project turned out to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very much an extension of Peter Teal's

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Speaker 3: trans sort of transhumanist vision. For those who might not know,

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Speaker 3: transhumanism is an idol like an ideology that has existed

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Speaker 3: in the tech space for a long time that basically

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Speaker 3: says that like to avoid the inevitable collapse of humanity,

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Speaker 3: like that we must enhance and depending on who you ask,

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Speaker 3: even like sort of supersede our own bodies, whether that

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Speaker 3: is like uploading yourself to the cloud or ver it's

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Speaker 3: aging yourself with like I think of Brian Johnson using

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Speaker 3: the blood of his son. You know. It's it's part

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Speaker 3: of this this transhumanist ideology, this transhumanist vision that that

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Speaker 3: that Peter Teal very much, very much subscribes to.

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Speaker 1: Part of the argument that they're making is that doping

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Speaker 1: is already happening in the Olympics and sports. So I

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Speaker 1: heard one of the numbers that one of the founders

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Speaker 1: tossed out. They said, forty four percent of Olympians admitted

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Speaker 1: to pds in the last year.

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Speaker 4: Did you report on that? Is that real?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So that is a study. That is it's a

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Speaker 3: it's a real study. It is an outlier among other

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Speaker 3: sort of studies that have been done on the rates

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Speaker 3: of doping and the Olympics. And the researcher that did

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Speaker 3: it consistently has sort of outliers in his data. It's

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Speaker 3: it's anywhere from like ten to twenty percent higher than

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Speaker 3: than most other studies. Fine, twenty percent of athletes in

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Speaker 3: the Olympics doing drugs is still a significants. I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say that that's nothing, you know, but it is.

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Speaker 3: It is an outlier in the data for sure.

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Speaker 1: So they pulled the most favorable number because they're going

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Speaker 1: to well, if forty.

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Speaker 3: No one would ever do that in the wellness space

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Speaker 3: might come on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So they're basically saying, all right, if forty four

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Speaker 1: Olympians are already doping, like that makes an unfair playing

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Speaker 1: field at the real Olympics. So what if we just

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Speaker 1: you know, pull back the curtain and say, hey, basically,

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Speaker 1: more or less anything goes, let's let's see what happens.

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Speaker 4: So that's kind of their argument.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and then you know it, it kind of

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Speaker 5: has a little bit of a point, Like it's like

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Speaker 5: you look at the Russian Federation or like the Chinese,

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Speaker 5: like you know, so it's like, oh, these big apparatuses

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Speaker 5: are basically like helping their athletes gain an unfair advantage.

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Speaker 5: And then what are they getting from you know, the

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Speaker 5: IOC or WATA. It's like basically like a slap on

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Speaker 5: the wrist, like they're still competing, they're still able to

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Speaker 5: win medals. It's a sometimes it's it feels like a

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Speaker 5: little silly.

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Speaker 2: So I kind of see their point in some of this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And there is some research that suggests even if

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Speaker 1: you've used certain banned substances in the past, those can

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Speaker 1: still impact your performance moving forward. So you'll still have

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Speaker 1: you know, you'll gained more muscle than you could have

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Speaker 1: without them, while that muscle's going to stick around even

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Speaker 1: if you're not on them, you're still getting this sort

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Speaker 1: of boost from the past more or less.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know, there was this really funny example

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Speaker 5: of this Australian swimmer named James Magnuson. He was the

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Speaker 5: first dude who signed on with Enhanced a couple of

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Speaker 5: years ago, and he actually ended up taking like they

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Speaker 5: didn't have a protocol in place, they didn't know what

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Speaker 5: they were doing. He was kind of effectively, you know,

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Speaker 5: the trial balloon and step free into the air, and

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Speaker 5: he ended up doping so much that it made him

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Speaker 5: significantly slower in the water.

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Speaker 2: Like he was huge.

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Speaker 5: He looked like, I don't know, like he Man, basically

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Speaker 5: like the cartoon version of he Man, which you know,

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Speaker 5: maybe having giant shoulders isn't the best for your buoyancy

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Speaker 5: in the water, but you know, the dude, the dude

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Speaker 5: was an ocean liner when he should have been a

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Speaker 5: speedboat basically.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not convinced that wasn't a problem at

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Speaker 3: the Broader Games themselves a few months ago too. You know,

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Speaker 3: like having more muscle on your body does not necessarily

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Speaker 3: equate to like swimming faster in the water. You are

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Speaker 3: basically turning yourself into a rock. You're far less buoyant. Uh,

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Speaker 3: it makes it, It makes it a lot harder so

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Speaker 3: I did find myself wondering why they chose swimming given

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Speaker 3: given the reality of you know, the way that the

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Speaker 3: water works.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, because a lot of the a lot of

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Speaker 1: the drugs they are offering and athletes are using are

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Speaker 1: essentially muscle enhancers. Are they using stuff like EPO for

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Speaker 1: because most of the sports are power sports, right, So yeah,

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Speaker 1: the distances. There's sprinting, but there's not they're not doing

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Speaker 1: like marathons or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: No, they've been very like, we don't want to do

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Speaker 3: right now. We don't want to do anything that is

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Speaker 3: an endurance sport because it's not tiktokable. Basically, they want

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Speaker 3: everything to be able to they they're very candidly candid

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Speaker 3: about that. They want to be able to throw it

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Speaker 3: on a clip, publish it, put it out there, get

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Speaker 3: as many views as they can, which you could tell

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Speaker 3: this was their model by being at the games for

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Speaker 3: kind like we were. We were kind of depressed being

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Speaker 3: we were sequestered into this kind of corner of the

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Speaker 3: arena and given very very limited access to interview the

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Speaker 3: athletes during the games themselves. And meanwhile they were letting YouTube.

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Speaker 3: I don't even know who they were sort of YouTube influencers,

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Speaker 3: zoomer TikTok influencers like go poolside, and they were doing

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Speaker 3: like Fortnite remote dances and interviewing athletes right as they

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Speaker 3: came out of the right as they came out of

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Speaker 3: the water. So it was, it was, it was. It

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Speaker 3: very much felt like they were trying to cater specifically

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Speaker 3: to new age media.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know these like short bursts, sprint sports

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Speaker 5: and like lifting. It's like it makes a lot of

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Speaker 5: sense for like, you know, the online economy, but for

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Speaker 5: a six to eight hour live event, maybe not the

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Speaker 5: best or most entertaining way to throw first games, I guess.

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Speaker 4: So you guys go to Vegas.

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Speaker 1: It's at the event is held at Resorts World, which

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Speaker 1: is a big newish casino at the end of the strip.

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Speaker 1: It's very nice. What are the vibes like before the

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Speaker 1: event actually happens.

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Speaker 5: So they had sort of built this bespoke structure in

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Speaker 5: the middle of a Resorts World, which was it had

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Speaker 5: a four lane pool, one hundred yard track I think,

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Speaker 5: or maybe a little bit longer than that, and then

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Speaker 5: like a little stage for powerlifting. There was a big

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Speaker 5: DJ booth and this was all taking place in like

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Speaker 5: sort of the shadow of Trump Tower with the Sphere

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Speaker 5: in the background. The vibes were a little I don't know,

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Speaker 5: this is probably a little harsh, but they felt very

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Speaker 5: cursed to me, Like.

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Speaker 4: What do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: The swirl of the.

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Speaker 5: TikTokers, and then like there were the athlete families sort

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Speaker 5: of in the stands. They neglected to put a roof

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Speaker 5: over the whole thing, which you know, if you're competing

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Speaker 5: in weightlifting or track and you're in the middle of

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Speaker 5: like the Nevada Desert, that's probably not the best like

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Speaker 5: situation to break a world record in. So the sun's

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Speaker 5: beating down, there's like old ladies like getting like having

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Speaker 5: wheelchairs requested, and it feels sort of like it feels

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Speaker 5: like a sort of wellness see Coachella in some ways,

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Speaker 5: but they hadn't figured out all the kinks yet, and

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Speaker 5: sort of that's kind of like how it is when

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Speaker 5: we like parachute it into this thing.

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Speaker 1: It was ninety six degrees that day, yeah, because it's

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Speaker 1: light May.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was I don't know if you remember

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Speaker 3: what I said to you, Chris beforehand, but I was like,

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Speaker 3: I've spent my entire life going to wrestling tournaments where

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Speaker 3: you compete for seven minutes at a time. Nobody here

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Speaker 3: is going to be accustomed to how much of this

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Speaker 3: is just waiting, just waiting for your turn, and they're

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Speaker 3: kind of rolling through the events really slowly, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of it is I would say, probably four hours

401
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Speaker 3: of it. We don't quote me on that, but like

402
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Speaker 3: a significant chunk of the time was dedicated to Olympic weightlifting,

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Speaker 3: because that just takes time people need to rest between reps.

404
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,280
Speaker 3: No shade to Olympic weightlifting. I think it's really cool,

405
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Speaker 3: but it is not the best spectator sport I think

406
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Speaker 3: it is. It happens, you know, like a handful of seconds.

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Speaker 3: You're competing at a time, ton of build up, and

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Speaker 3: I think they attempted. They only attempted one world record

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Speaker 3: the whole time. They didn't even in the way that

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Speaker 3: think they didn't even attempt They didn't throw the weight

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Speaker 3: on the bar and give it a go with with

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Speaker 3: almost any of their almost any of their athletes. And

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Speaker 3: this is the height of the day. So for most

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Speaker 3: of the most of the weightlifting, the crowd was like

415
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 3: empty downstairs, drinking free beer that they've been given by

416
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 3: enhanced because it was for no no public tickets, it

417
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 3: was invite only. Everybody in attendance was a press family

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Speaker 3: or an influencer.

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Speaker 1: And so the deal for athletes is explain how they

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Speaker 1: get paid and what the numbers are and how that

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Speaker 1: compares to doing it the quote unquote non enhanced way.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to get to the video onmpicks and.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so you know, the sort of like pattern net

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Speaker 5: emerged for us was if you're like not an NBA

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00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 5: player or an NFL player or whatever you're you're you're

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00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 5: basically not making any money from your chosen sport. And

427
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 5: so for a lot of these let's let's take swimmers

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Speaker 5: for example, like their options after they're they're retired from

429
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 5: their swimming career are basically, you know, they could they

430
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Speaker 5: could teach kids, they could do seminars, but maybe you're

431
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Speaker 5: not the type of person who wants to like, you know,

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Speaker 5: help kids, like you know, kick around in the pool

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Speaker 5: or whatever. And so, uh, if you're signing on with Enhance,

434
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Speaker 5: you get paid a monthly stipend. We don't have the

435
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Speaker 5: exact numbers on that because they declined to share it.

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Speaker 5: You have basic health care, you have the futuristic health

437
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 5: care with all the you know, enhancements and sort of

438
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,800
Speaker 5: like health monitoring and recovery stuff, and you had free

439
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 5: housing and food, so you basically had a lot of

440
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 5: your amenities taken care of and you could basically focus

441
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 5: on training and training only, which you know, it's kind

442
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 5: of like just like a luxurious version of going back

443
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 5: to college and except you don't have to go to class.

444
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 2: Basically, it's kind of how I understood it.

445
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 3: We should add though, that they that they they were

446
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,679
Speaker 3: only given those amenities if you agreed to be well,

447
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 3: not all of it. They're only given the like food

448
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 3: and board and access to the pharmaceuticals if they agreed

449
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: to go to the United Air memorates and participate in

450
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 3: this study that they're doing on the drugs themselves. So

451
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 3: you had to essentially agree to be a guinea pig

452
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 3: to get not the stipend, but the board and the

453
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 3: food and free access to the pharmaceuticals.

454
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: And then one of the big reasons that athletes would

455
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: do this is that if you win an event, the

456
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: purse is pretty big, and then if you break a

457
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: world record at the Games, it's even bigger.

458
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 4: So what are the numbers there the.

459
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 3: Winners were getting in most of the events, we're getting

460
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,360
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which is if you're

461
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 3: running track, that's like more than you might make in

462
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 3: your entire career, with the exception of the best of

463
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: the best.

464
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 5: Of the best of the best. Yeah, and then low

465
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 5: end was like fifty thousand dollars. So there was a

466
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 5: range of money you were guaranteed to make from just

467
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 5: competing alone basically.

468
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 3: And then for some of the events, I believe the

469
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 3: one hundred meters sprint for men's and fifty and one

470
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 3: hundred meter free in swimming, if you broke a record,

471
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 3: you got a million dollars. The person was the world

472
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: record breaking purse was less than that for other events,

473
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 3: but for those ones it was up to a million dollars.

474
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, just to put a pin in

475
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: that so people have context, if you play in the NFL,

476
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 1: you're probably guaranteed at least two million bucks a year.

477
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: You play a few years, you're like, Okay, I'm probably

478
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: gonna be okay for life, so long as I just

479
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: manage my money decently. Now, if you're at a decent level,

480
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: like you can, you can be in the nine figure range.

481
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 1: So like, you know, some of these like bigger professional sports,

482
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: you can do your thing, you'll make enough money that

483
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: you're probably set for life. But with more of these

484
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: niche Olympic sports, you're really scratching by unless you're like

485
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 1: the absolute top, like a Michael Phelps, and you can

486
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: get these big advertising deals and all these other things,

487
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 1: but like the average athlete isn't hardly making any money.

488
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's basically it.

489
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 5: And we talked to a number of the athletes, and

490
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 5: they all had the reasons for doing it, Like, you know,

491
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 5: some of them had just put down a mortgage and

492
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 5: then lost a bunch of their other sponsors, so this

493
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 5: was like a way to you know, like earn a living.

494
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: Basically.

495
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 5: One of the more interesting guys, his name is Andre Govarov.

496
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 5: He had actually fled Ukraine during the war and his

497
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 5: business back there was basically destroyed.

498
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: He had no sort of like.

499
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: Literally destroyed to be clear, like with missiles.

500
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and he you know, he was like, in

501
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 5: order to compete at an elite level that I want

502
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 5: to compete at, it costs you know, ten thousand dollars

503
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 5: a month, like between the coaches. I got to pay

504
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 5: the trainers, my recovery, my food, all that stuff. So

505
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 5: he was like, enhanced was just financially, you know, the

506
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 5: most logical move that I can make in order to

507
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 5: like be who I want to be.

508
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 4: We're going to take a quick break.

509
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 1: Then we're going to look at the actual events of

510
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: the enhanced games and the records that were set and

511
00:24:51,119 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: not set. Okay, So at this point we've said, up,

512
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,159
Speaker 1: we've got this big event. We're going to let people

513
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: juice to the gills. We're going to see what happens.

514
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: Do they get these crazy times and weights lifted we've

515
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 1: never seen before. We've set down that this is sort

516
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: of one big advertisement in order to sell these things

517
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: to the public. We've set up the fact that athletes

518
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: are being pulled into this because they can make more

519
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: money than they might have made their entire career for this.

520
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: Now the event happens, what happens with the times? Are

521
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: are these records being shattered across the board?

522
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: No, no, they go. They go most of the entire

523
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: day without a record. They come close once in one

524
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: hundred meters men's sprint, they were like one hundreds of

525
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 3: a second off, but in most of the events. The

526
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: one that comes to mind is kind of being the

527
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: most egregious of the women's hundred meter sprint. I believe

528
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 3: that I don't believe any of the times that were

529
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: run would have qualified for the Olympics. All fine for

530
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 3: the Olympics. Yeah, even the winner, I believe. I have

531
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: to don't check that, but I'm pretty sure there was

532
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 3: the case. They were all elected the the eleven second range,

533
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: which is, you know, certainly faster than you or I,

534
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 3: but not an Olympic caliber. And not only that, they

535
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: had multiple multiple non enhanced athletes, so for context, you

536
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,159
Speaker 3: could join the enhanced Games and say I don't want

537
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 3: to do steroids, I just want to compete for the money.

538
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,719
Speaker 3: And they had multiple athletes who were doing that, who

539
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 3: at least said they were doing that, were won their events.

540
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: One of them was Hunter Armstrong, who the guy that

541
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: was trying to save his mortgage, basically who signed up

542
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 3: for the Games. He won one hundred meter backstroke, yeah, backstroke,

543
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 3: as well as the Fred Curley, the hundred meter sprinter,

544
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 3: and the women's sprinter as well, whose name is escaping me.

545
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: So they have so basically one the times are not

546
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: crazy the whites lifted are not crazy and people are

547
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: winning who are not even enhanced, and this is supposed

548
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,919
Speaker 1: to be. Let's see what happens when we enhance the

549
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: hell out of these athletes.

550
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 5: And yeah, and I don't know about you, Sam, but

551
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 5: you could sort of like feel the tense, the tension

552
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 5: like sort of like building in the in the arena.

553
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 5: As the night goes on, it's like, Oh, another one

554
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 5: that's not smashed, another one that didn't even come close,

555
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 5: another lift that was like far, far far off from

556
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 5: a world record. And it wasn't until the very last race,

557
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 5: which was a fifty meter free and they actually had maybe,

558
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 5: you know, pound for pound, the highest caliber of athletes

559
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 5: competing in that one, so that was kind of like

560
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 5: their big bet. And it wasn't until that very last

561
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 5: end of the night that the swimmer, Christian Golamyve like

562
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 5: touches the wall and then like there's a split second

563
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 5: that happens in between that where they like verify that

564
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 5: a world record was broken, and then all the screens

565
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 5: like flash red. It's like, oh, they had all these

566
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 5: like you know, I don't know if it was fireworks,

567
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 5: but just like all this stuff firing off that they

568
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 5: were sitting on all night, and you could just sort

569
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 5: of feel like I was looking at the executives like

570
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 5: it was like a load had lifted off their shoulders,

571
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 5: like they were so relieved to finally have had a

572
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 5: GenZ like break one single world record with the Games.

573
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: But he did that in some sort of suit that's

574
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: banned in the normal Olympics, right, m h.

575
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: He did it and what's called the super suit, which

576
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: is just like, really it looks like a wrestling singlet,

577
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 3: but even kind of tighter, like somebody looking a wrestling

578
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: singlet in a what suit, but it goes to the

579
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: ankle and comes kind of over your body and what

580
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: it like, it kind of compresses you. It makes you

581
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 3: more more buoyant, which I do think when they first

582
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: initially broke a record, and for context they they it's

583
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: kind of a proof of concept. A year ago they

584
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: had gold Christian Golomy break the fifty meter world record

585
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 3: as it stood at that point, which had been set

586
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 3: by Caesar Clo in the late two thousands in a

587
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: super suit before the supersuit was banned. Okay, A few

588
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: months after that, Cameron McAvoy, an Australian swimmer broke Christian

589
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 3: the world record that the rest of the world recognized,

590
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: and Christian Golimus world record in a regular sort of speedo,

591
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: not in a super suit, so did not have the

592
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 3: like extra gear that Christian Goldmife again raced in and

593
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 3: broke the broke the record in so that I honestly,

594
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: to me, that puts more of an asterisk on the

595
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: record than the steroids do. Uh. The line that I

596
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: always say to people is like I use the Barry

597
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 3: Bonds example, which is obviously extreme. You know, like you

598
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: could go on YouTube right now and watch there's hundreds

599
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: of videos on YouTube just analyzing Barry Bond's swing is

600
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 3: the most beautiful swing ever. Right, Steroids aren't gonna make

601
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 3: your the technique of your swing better. You know, they're

602
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: gonna make you stronger, make you recover better, but they're

603
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 3: not gonna make you better at swinging a bat. But

604
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 3: then like it's the super suit is almost like benching

605
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: in like a sleeve the powerletters do versus benching raw

606
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: without a know, like it's your a gear to a

607
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: thing to assist you. At that point, if you want

608
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: to go down the philosophical route, it's like why not

609
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: put a fan behind him and like him to propel

610
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: him forward. Why not give him flippers? Why not? You know,

611
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 3: what is the what is the logical end of what

612
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 3: you're what you're doing? I think here was kind of

613
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: my question.

614
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: So the so these events start happening, no records are

615
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: getting broken initially, and then you finally have this moment

616
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: where you know, screen flashes read At that point, what

617
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: are the what's the energy among people who are not

618
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: the owners? You said, it's almost like the felt relief.

619
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: But what are people in the press area thinking and saying?

620
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: What?

621
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: What's the reaction from the TikTokers and the YouTubers. Is

622
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: it sort of like this, I don't know if this

623
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: is going well or at that point when then happens,

624
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: is it are people reacting as if it's a success.

625
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: I think the TikTokers didn't really care. Yeah, either way

626
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 3: that the families were happy, The athletes were ecstatic. I mean,

627
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 3: these people have been living together for many months, you know,

628
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: and tells them abudabims them like they're clearly they're very

629
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: kind of tight knit. So they were they were ecstatic

630
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: for I mean, they were extatic throughout for whoever won.

631
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: For who, you know, the energy for them was kind

632
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: of always always very high. The press was clearly yeah,

633
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,959
Speaker 3: I think quite suspicious of the premise. What I've been

634
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: kind of saying is like, I don't know if this

635
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: says about me as a journalist, but I was like,

636
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: you know, if they had broken a ton of records,

637
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 3: that would have been like an incredible story just in

638
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: terms of it being interesting, not good or bad, just

639
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 3: really interesting. If they had broken no records at all,

640
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: that would have been so interesting. But breaking one in

641
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 3: the event that we thought they might break it in

642
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 3: that they'd already broken it in at one point we

643
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 3: thought they might break it again with this suit on.

644
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 3: At the very end, I was like, this is I

645
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 3: don't want to say a letdown, but it wasn't as

646
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 3: compelling as I think that it could have been. It

647
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 3: was hard for the story part of my brain to

648
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: not be like, ah, dang. You know, I think a

649
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 3: lot of the press als similarly. I don't know about you, Chris, Yeah.

650
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 5: You know, when you ask about what was the mood

651
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 5: between the influencers, it actually took me a second because

652
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 5: by then most of them had already left, so the

653
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 5: stands were a little bit empty by that point, which was,

654
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: you know, probably not in their favor, But.

655
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think the.

656
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 5: For me at least, like I gained a lot of

657
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 5: sympathy for these athletes over the months, just like the

658
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 5: stuff that they struggle with, like the work they put in.

659
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 5: How unique their situation was in terms of like being

660
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 5: the best at what you do and being asked to

661
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 5: train together in like the same pool every day, like

662
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 5: that was really fascinating. Like the dynamic in there was

663
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 5: a bunch of alphas in the same room. You look

664
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 5: to your left, it's like the second best guy. You

665
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 5: look to your right, it's the third best guy, and

666
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,719
Speaker 5: they kind of like pushes you to be better in

667
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 5: a lot of ways that you know how much that

668
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 5: had to do with their success versus peds, I don't

669
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 5: really know, but I thought it was like a really

670
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 5: like sort of cute like dynamic.

671
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, the I mean the athletes of the people throughout

672
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: this process that I have absolutely the most sympathy for

673
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: the ones that I'm I would say I'm the happiest

674
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: for like it is. I would say my criticism of

675
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 3: the Enhanced Games in no way should be construed as

676
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 3: being support for the IOC or for the World Antidoping Agency,

677
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 3: something that I thought was quite poetic in the days

678
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: immediately after the Enhanced Games. I don't think they could

679
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 3: have timed this worse. Chirsty Coventry, who's the president of

680
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: the IOC, was interviewed and she said, in effect, she said,

681
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 3: I don't believe in paying athletes like prize money. Was

682
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 3: kind of the arc that she was asked about prying

683
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 3: prize money to Olympic athletes. She was like, I don't

684
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: believe in that. I think that's a bad thing, which

685
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 3: was which is just you know, the IOC makes tens

686
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: billions of dollars. They have plenty of money. It's technically

687
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: a nonprofit, you know. I think that they can afford

688
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 3: to pay life changing money to some of their to

689
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 3: some of their athletes. On top of that, the I

690
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: think that the methods that we use to decide who's

691
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 3: doping isn't. Our sort of anti doping policies as they

692
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: exist are draconian. Athletes have to surrender to test it.

693
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 3: Basically any given moment, any given time, their athlete, their

694
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: whereabouts have to be given to the World Antidoping Agency.

695
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 3: Literally twenty four to seven. If you miss a test

696
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 3: if I think three times, then you give a year

697
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 3: or two year ban. If you're just not where you're

698
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: supposed to be. They have no sort of say on

699
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: what is and isn't banned. It is also draconian, I think,

700
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 3: kind of also dystopian in a way, almost opposite the

701
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 3: spectrum of the Enhanced Games, and I have to think

702
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 3: that there is a better option, some sort of middle ground.

703
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: We'll take a break, then we'll talk about the backlash

704
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: that happened after the disappointments in the Enhanced Games. So

705
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: the event happens, as you said, kind of a letdown

706
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: allth Like you said, you wouldn't want to call it

707
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: a letdown, but we'll just go with that.

708
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: You can call it a letdown. I think that's for Yeah.

709
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 3: I stand by that it's a letdown.

710
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, event was a letdown.

711
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: Stock price crashes like seventy five percent in the ensuing days.

712
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: It could just be my algorithm, But I did not

713
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: say a positive thing. I just saw a ton of

714
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: hate being thrown at this thing. What reactions did you

715
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: see and how do you sort of process that?

716
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 5: You know, I think our algorithms are probably coded very similarly,

717
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: like it was a you know, maybe ninety nine percent

718
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 5: people dunking on the whole thing. But at the same time,

719
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 5: I feel like this whole thing was designed to sort

720
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 5: of court controversy and to like, you know, I feel

721
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 5: like for them, they feel like.

722
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 2: Any attention is good attention.

723
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,839
Speaker 5: And so just the fact that people were talking about

724
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 5: it and they had a lot of eyeballs and people

725
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 5: were going to their website, like I think they would

726
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 5: consider that a win, and you know, they were in

727
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 5: the aftermath, they were trying to spin this as, hey, look,

728
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: we had a bunch of athletes who happened to be

729
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 5: thirty five who set prs and that's a you know,

730
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 5: that's a moral victory for us and for them, and

731
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 5: you know, maybe that can happen to you too. You

732
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 5: could be the best version of yourself and feel ten

733
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 5: years younger. And so that was kind of the spin

734
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: they were putting on the ball in the aftermath of

735
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 5: the Games, which I thought was, you know, not the

736
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 5: worst idea. But for me, the thing that was like

737
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 5: very weird about the Games is if you are targeting

738
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 5: a demo that is, like people who are like thirty

739
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 5: five forty middle aged and you're like trying to help

740
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 5: them feel younger. Inviting a bunch of eighteen year old

741
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 5: TikTokers who've never felt that we're back pain in their

742
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 5: life just feels like the most twisted marketing stretch possible.

743
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 5: So that was the part I couldn't quite reconcile.

744
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the promise, is that you know, you

745
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: two could set a pr at thirty five forty. What

746
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: drugs do they actually sell to people? So there's like

747
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: this range, right, It's there's peptides, there's testosterone. There's what

748
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: all is being sold? And what do they do?

749
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 3: Well, it's changing constantly because the Trump because the Trump

750
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 3: administration is constantly deregulating a lot of the stuff that

751
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: they want to sell, like the peptide stuff. Interesting, I

752
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 3: can tell you right now. For sure, they sell samrellan,

753
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 3: which is a peptide that is supposed to boost your

754
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 3: natural production of growth hormone. They sell testosterone, they sell

755
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: they sell nady plus. What does that do?

756
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 4: Yeah?

757
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 5: Anydy plus is this sort of coenzyme that helps with

758
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 5: sort of like cellular repair and helps a lot with energy,

759
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 5: brain fog, that sort of thing. I've I've dabbled in

760
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 5: it and take it once in a while. Before I

761
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 5: got into like enhanced world, they sell a bunch of

762
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 5: like glp ones creams, and then like they have like

763
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 5: their your standard issue like creatine and like pre workout

764
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 5: sort of stuff that are grossly overpriced and actually are

765
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 5: a little too sweet for my liking after tasting them.

766
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 3: It would appear that they've added Cialis to Dalla phil

767
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 3: since I last looked up maybe a week or two ago,

768
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 3: which I believe some people are saying is like you

769
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 3: can use as like a like a like a mental

770
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 3: clarity booster. Now too, I've heard that on the kind

771
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: of wellness circuits. So they have they have cialis, they

772
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 3: have generic salis, they have they have trzepetide, they have

773
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:39,359
Speaker 3: g hkcu, the copper peptide creating. I mean, they kind

774
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: of got they kind of got everything in this kind

775
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: of this whole gambit of of drugs.

776
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: And then how are they tracking the health effects of

777
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: these because part of it is they're doing these sort

778
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: of study on athlete help health to see do these

779
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: things help or harm in the long run? What does

780
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: that actually look like? And have they have they published

781
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: any results yet?

782
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 3: No results they've they've throughout the whole process of reporting this.

783
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 3: They were very at first. They kind of promised us,

784
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 3: especially Chris, that they would have access to whatever information

785
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 3: we wanted about what they were taking. And then as

786
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 3: when it kind of push came to shove and we

787
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 3: were like, hey, we're gonna go to Abu Dhabi and

788
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 3: like we want to we want to be in the

789
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 3: room when you give them the needle. They're like, no, actually,

790
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: we can't tell you because of privacy laws in the VIA,

791
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 3: and so we don't know exactly what any given athlete

792
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 3: was taking. They have since published some data on what

793
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 3: percentage of different substances, like different athletes took. It was

794
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 3: like something like seventy percent use of soostro and like

795
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 3: forty percent use EPO. Just kind of generic like this

796
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: percentage of our athletes use these drugs. But they have

797
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 3: not made the exact results public yet. And we talked

798
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 3: to a bunch of doctors about we're just to basically

799
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: gut check what this study was. And there's there's a

800
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 3: few there's a few big problems. One is that like

801
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 3: you really don't have any control. You have three athletes

802
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: who are not taking drugs and you're not controlling anything

803
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 3: else in their life, So that already kind of compromises

804
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,919
Speaker 3: the study. And then two like there is no they're

805
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: not drug They were very candid that they were not

806
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 3: drug testing athletes and lead up to the games they

807
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 3: were only going to test their sort of org and

808
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: health and to make sure that they were healthy to compete,

809
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: because some of these substances can in larger heart they

810
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: can cause liver damage, et cetera, et cetera. And kind

811
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 3: of the hole in that logic that we we kept

812
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 3: coming across was there's a huge financial incentive here, and

813
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 3: there's you're not You've already said you're not drug testing

814
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 3: any of these athletes, So what's stopping anybody here from

815
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: taking more of this drug? Given that they could win

816
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 3: a million dollars you know from on the side, getting

817
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: some testogs around on you know, there's nothing stopping them.

818
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 3: So the on top of that, there's questions of you know, independence,

819
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 3: like kind of independent could the study actually be? The

820
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 3: data I think is compelling but dubious, Like I think

821
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 3: there isn't a ton of research out there because we

822
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: have been so I think punitive in our approach to

823
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: drug research. For a long time, not not you know,

824
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: especially with street drugs, but which steroids have been treated

825
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: as a street drug for a long time. It's very hard

826
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 3: to research the effects of them. We didn't really have

827
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: For many of these drugs, we still don't have a

828
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 3: really good idea of what they do. Most of it

829
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 3: is like broscience, and then on top of that broscience

830
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 3: being just kind of anecdotal, like I like this, do

831
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 3: you like that, how do you use it? Blah blah blah.

832
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 5: You know, they had a couple of different categories of drugs.

833
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 5: It was you know, they had you know, they had

834
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 5: the tesosterones, they had stimulants that they were able to

835
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 5: take for the women, they had hormone regulators like you know,

836
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 5: and then what was the last category stem There was

837
00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 5: one more metablock modulators metal block modulators, yes.

838
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 3: Yes, maldonium drugs that make your sales more energy efficient.

839
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: Often they're used for like diabetes and libertines and stuff.

840
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, And what was interesting is, you know, we talked

841
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 5: to this guy, Guido Plis. He's this cardiologist from the

842
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 5: UK who heads up there sort of like scare quotes

843
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 5: Independent Medical Commission, and he said that peptides were actually

844
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 5: like something that the athletes were going to be able

845
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 5: to take. In the lead up to it, like we

846
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 5: talked to a couple of them who were excited about

847
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 5: potentially taking you know, like BPC one five seven or

848
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 5: you know, the Wolverine stack for healing and all of that,

849
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: and he was like, you know, that stuff is a

850
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 5: little too unregulated even for us, so we don't kind

851
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 5: of want to we don't want to dive into that,

852
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 5: which to me felt weird because it's like, oh, you

853
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 5: guys are leaving a lot of money on the table

854
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 5: by doing this, But at the same time, it's like

855
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 5: you're sort of I don't know, ability to regulate or

856
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 5: not regulate, but to sort of like determine what the

857
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 5: athletes can and can take.

858
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: It's just as squishy as say, wata.

859
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 5: You know, Like it was they kind of didn't have

860
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 5: their own grounding.

861
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: What I was gonna say earlier was on top of

862
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 3: how hard these drugs have been able to research, the

863
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: other argument that they make, which has some merit I

864
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 3: think to be fair, is that like most of what

865
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 3: we understand of the symptoms of steroid abuse comes from

866
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 3: people who are abusing extreme amounts of them in an

867
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 3: unregulated manner off label for long periods of time. I

868
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 3: bodybuilders basically. And their argument is, although we can't know

869
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 3: because they don't give us access to what they're doing,

870
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 3: is that they're giving these athletes very small doses of

871
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 3: these drugs relatively speaking, for much shorter periods of time.

872
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 3: I think in total they dobe for about eight weeks,

873
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: maybe slightly longer.

874
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, And what's funny.

875
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 5: What's interesting about that too, is like, you know the powerlifters,

876
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 5: it's like, oh, they were the ones who were the

877
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 5: furthest away from breaking world records in some ways, was

878
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,720
Speaker 5: there more conservative dosing that enhancement was providing them different

879
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 5: from what was available in other.

880
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: Contexts, which I think was unsurprising, and just because weightlifting

881
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 3: has always always been I think the most drugged out

882
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: of the Olympic sports totally.

883
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 1: Like in powerlifting, you have federations that are clean in theory,

884
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: and then you have ones where it's like, this is

885
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: a non clean federation, like just juice yourself to I mean,

886
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: there's already kind of this experiment happening in the powerlifting world.

887
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: One thing I would point out about the study, though,

888
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 1: is if if you have people taking a bunch of

889
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: different substances, how the hell do you figure out what

890
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: is helping and what is hurting an athletes health? Like

891
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: there's just way too much fucking noise.

892
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 3: It's a strange cocktail. And also like, how do you

893
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: extrapolate the effects of t stosterone from Ben and proud

894
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: Olympic silver medalists to sixty year old ethel who wants

895
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: to Like there is an example that they're like, we

896
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 3: want Olympic athletes to have a to it and the

897
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 3: sixty year old woman who wants to tend her garden bonger?

898
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 3: How do you extrapolate the results from an Olympic silver

899
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 3: medalist to a sixty year old woman who just wants

900
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 3: to take care of her ponies? You know, Like yeah, and.

901
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 5: I think we mentioned it earlier too that it's like,

902
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 5: you know, the the menu of drugs that are presented

903
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 5: to each athlete is totally different for each one of them.

904
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 5: Like it's totally bespoke, like catered to sort of your biometrics,

905
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 5: your test, and it's recommended to you by your doctor.

906
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 5: You decide what you actually do and don't want to take.

907
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 5: And so just like the variants there alone between the

908
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 5: athletes is like it's it's like just like such a

909
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 5: wide spectrum that how do you control for that?

910
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 3: Right?

911
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: So you what I thought was interesting, Chris is that

912
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: you had you would take an NAD mm hmm. What

913
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: prompted you to do that and what was that like?

914
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, So one of the funny things that happened in

915
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 5: like Sam and I like getting put together for the

916
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 5: story is we both do muay Thai and both compete,

917
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 5: you know, so you know, obviously when we were in Vegas,

918
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 5: were like, let's sit up a Muytai gym.

919
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 2: Let's like get some work.

920
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: In, you know.

921
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm forty one.

922
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,919
Speaker 5: I'm like it's sort of like the tail end of

923
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 5: like my you know, ability to compete at this point.

924
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 5: I also have a four year old son, and so

925
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 5: my sleep is trash, Like you know, I don't get

926
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 5: very much recovery. And a homegirl of mine was like, oh,

927
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 5: I'm like she was in her mid forties and she

928
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 5: was like, I started taking NAD and it really really

929
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 5: helped me with like my daily brain fog and just

930
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 5: my general ability to function and as a writer and

931
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 5: sort of someone who partacs in like combat sports. I

932
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 5: was like, oh, the sort of mental acuity that comes

933
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 5: with NAD plus is something that was really appealing to me.

934
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 5: And I also wanted to understand what it's like to

935
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 5: jab a needle into your belly so I could sympathize

936
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 5: with these athletes a little bit more. And that was

937
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 5: kind of like what kicks started the experiment for me?

938
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 4: What was it like? Did it improve things? Did it work?

939
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah?

940
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 5: You know what we I Sam actually tried it too

941
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 5: when I when I had an extra dosing that was

942
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 5: sent to me. For me, it's I think it's awesome.

943
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 5: Like I feel like whenever I do need my brain

944
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 5: fog lifted or I need a little bit more energy,

945
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,840
Speaker 5: it helps tremendously. I'm also a lot older than Sam,

946
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 5: so this stuff like my you know, he has the

947
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 5: wrestling background in the lifetime of those injuries compounded onto him.

948
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 5: But you know I got I got like ten years

949
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 5: at least, so you know, maybe maybe the age is

950
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 5: more of a factor for me.

951
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. And I would specify, you know our

952
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 3: preface that you know, I am not forty, I'm thirty

953
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 3: years old. Maybe in ten year os old, be like yeah,

954
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 3: give me everything. I don't know. Yeah, But one thing

955
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 3: I like about working with Crystal on this was which

956
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 3: was it was a good gut check. Because I am

957
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 3: my mother's a doctor. I grew up in a house

958
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 3: with a medical professional, So I am deeply suspicious of

959
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 3: anything that comes out of the wall Inness industry. Most

960
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 3: of it's unregulated kind of et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Also,

961
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,399
Speaker 3: I just have this kind of like predisposed belief from

962
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 3: my experience competing that like, I've seen what people can

963
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 3: do if they just train really hard and sleep a

964
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: lot and eat really well, and that's kind of all

965
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 3: that they do and that's their focus. I'm like, maybe

966
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 3: we as a society should try to sleep a lot

967
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 3: more and work out. If you want to run faster,

968
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 3: lift more, work out really consistently for many hours day,

969
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 3: and sleep well and eat better. Before we start talking

970
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 3: about injecting exogynist substances and hormones into our body, I

971
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 3: was like, I feel like we're starting at the wrong

972
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 3: end here often because there's because there's something to sell.

973
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: So I came into it, I think pretty suspicious. I

974
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 3: took a pretty small dose of the nity I didn't

975
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 3: really feel much. I thought the feeling of it being

976
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 3: in my stomach to be so off putting. Uh, it's

977
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 3: like warm, and there's it feels like there's like a

978
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 3: little it felt like one of those like little like

979
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 3: weights that you see the like in like the old

980
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,959
Speaker 3: ladies and the jaggeritized classes, the like little bullet weights

981
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 3: they hold. I felt like someone like slipped that under

982
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:20,760
Speaker 3: my skin and it was just sitting there. But again,

983
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know how I'll feel when I'm forty.

984
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: You know, it's easy for me, like I can still

985
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 3: go out on the weekends and wake up, and I

986
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: went out. I was out late, real late a couple

987
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 3: of nights ago, watching the game two of the Knicks

988
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 3: and partied until like two in the morning, and then

989
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: I woke up. I was like, I got to get

990
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 3: rid of this hangover. And my solution was to run

991
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 3: five miles. So yeah, yeah.

992
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 2: That's about I was.

993
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 5: I was going to say, you know that it's I

994
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 5: know sleep is important, but there's a Knicks game that

995
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 5: starts at eight thirty.

996
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 3: And I don't have a kid, so it's like and

997
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 3: it's easier for me to say, like, maybe you should

998
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: work out four hours a day before you start putt

999
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 3: stuff in your body.

1000
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 4: We're going to take a break.

1001
00:49:58,320 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: Then we're going to get into a little bit of

1002
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: a long of aging and why we as a culture

1003
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: are so obsessed with slowing down and stopping aging. I wonder,

1004
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: and Chris will be interesting to get your perspective on this.

1005
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:22,359
Speaker 1: Part of me wonders, is having brain fog waking up

1006
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: kind of tired? Is that just part of aging? And

1007
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: is there almost a reward in that? It's like it's

1008
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 1: a fundamental part of the process of being human. So

1009
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: if I think about myself from a writing perspective, it's

1010
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 1: like some mornings I wake up, I'm like, ah, the

1011
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: sentences aren't coming out, but I put the work in

1012
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 1: and then I get a couple good ones and I'm like,

1013
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: that was awesome. And I did that sort of by myself.

1014
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: Do we lose something when we buy a product that

1015
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: makes these important things about being a human easier?

1016
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: That's a good question, you know.

1017
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 5: To my mind, it's sort of indistinguishable from you know,

1018
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 5: having two shots of express in the morning.

1019
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 2: In some ways, it's like if it.

1020
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 5: Helps you do your job a little bit better, I'm

1021
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 5: like Yeah, dude, go for it.

1022
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 2: That's fine.

1023
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 5: Like we're sort of like thrust into this system where

1024
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 5: getting sleep is pretty much impossible, and like, if you

1025
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 5: do are in a situation where you can get a

1026
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 5: lot of sleep, it's kind of like that's like the

1027
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 5: new luxury in some ways. Like if you're Lebron getting

1028
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 5: twelve twelve hours of sleep at night, it's like, of

1029
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,400
Speaker 5: course you're going to have an advantage over everyone else,

1030
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,439
Speaker 5: but none of us. If we're working our jobs, trying

1031
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 5: to get in our workouts, trying to like do any extracurriculars,

1032
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 5: it's like, yeah, sleep is always the first thing to go,

1033
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,439
Speaker 5: and so you know, whatever you can do to sort

1034
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 5: of mitigate that, I'm personally kind of.

1035
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 2: All for it.

1036
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sam, what was your take on that, giving your

1037
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: background as an athlete and you had to go through

1038
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: all these you know, PD checks and everything, and where

1039
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: do you draw the line? Because I think Chris's yeah

1040
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: is great. That's like, well, if I took four shots

1041
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: of espresso in the morning, that gives me some sort

1042
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: of boost, And so like, how do we how do

1043
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,760
Speaker 1: we even determine these lines between what's a quote unquote

1044
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: banned substance versus Oh, that's good, that's totally fine.

1045
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 3: It's a really hard question to answer. It's just kind

1046
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: of thinking out loud, Like I, especially as I have

1047
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 3: the experience of getting older to me and I've would

1048
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: preface that I've In ten years, I might be like,

1049
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,399
Speaker 3: screw everything that I said when I was thirty. I'm like, Chris,

1050
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: give me the shot. But totally totally possible. But right now,

1051
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 3: I would never preasist to anybody because it's not my body.

1052
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 3: And I really do believe that, like that's the autonomy

1053
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 3: is important, but I do think that you lose something

1054
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,399
Speaker 3: of your The process of aging, I think is such

1055
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: an important part of our of our humanity. I think

1056
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 3: feeling what enhanced is selling is I think what so

1057
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,799
Speaker 3: many in the sort of tech biopharmer space are selling,

1058
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 3: which is like, wherever possible, removing the friction of your lives.

1059
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 3: And I think that the friction of our lives is

1060
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 3: where we grow, it's where we develop as people, it's

1061
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 3: where we if you're a father, it's where I think

1062
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 3: that we imbue valuable life lessons upon our children. And

1063
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 3: I don't want to do things that make me feel

1064
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 3: good all the time, personally, like it's I I intellectually

1065
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,799
Speaker 3: I enjoy writing. The process of writing I find to

1066
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 3: be really unpleasant.

1067
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 2: It sucks.

1068
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 3: I do it because I don't like it, and it

1069
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 3: makes me anxious, and it makes me feel kind of

1070
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 3: insecure about how smart I am, and it makes me like,

1071
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 3: you know, like all these kinds of things in a

1072
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 3: very similar way that like combat sports did. They're very

1073
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 3: primal and personal, and if you lose, it's not like

1074
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: in football or soccer where we have a team to blame.

1075
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 3: It's like you got beat up in this very visceral,

1076
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 3: personal way. That's embarrassing and that's hard. It gives you insecurity,

1077
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 3: and it gives you anxiety, and I worry. I guess

1078
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 3: I worry. NAD is one thing, but I just worry

1079
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,000
Speaker 3: about the logic where that logic ends. And I like

1080
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 3: it doesn't end like this with everybody, but it's you

1081
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 3: can see how you get from NAD to let me

1082
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 3: hammer my face to make my bones grow sharper like clinticular,

1083
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 3: you know, like you can see how that kind of

1084
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 3: rabbit hole can happen. And most people are gonna be

1085
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 3: like Chris and be reasonable about it, but there's you know,

1086
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 3: there's always the outliers that are gonna, you know, take

1087
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 3: things to extremes. And I think because the Internet, like

1088
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: taking things to extreme is rewarded because of the culture

1089
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 3: of the Internet, you know. So I just kind of

1090
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 3: worry where this goes. And for me, like I've found

1091
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,720
Speaker 3: a lot of enjoyment in the aging of my body,

1092
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 3: in the way that I practice combat sports, like the

1093
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 3: way that I when I wrestle. Now, I I'm not

1094
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 3: as quick as I once was. It my knees hurt.

1095
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 3: It's hard for me to take shots the way that

1096
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: I used to, Like I don't want to do a

1097
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 3: full penetration step where I hit my knees. I take

1098
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 3: like fat man old man shots and grab people's legs.

1099
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 3: But also like I wrestle college guys in high school

1100
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 3: guys now, and I'm like, I can see five moves

1101
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 3: ahead of you. I know what you're doing. Like I've

1102
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 3: studied the scrolls too, young man, you know, and there's

1103
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 3: fun in that too, And I worry about losing that

1104
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 3: the more the more that this culture kind of propagates,

1105
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 3: I really do.

1106
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: It feels like the enhanced games are kind of this

1107
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: collision between two forces that you just mentioned the removal

1108
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: of friction from life, but also kind of the machine

1109
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 1: of marketing, big money trying to sell us something like

1110
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: this is all kind of one big advertisement for the

1111
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 1: removal of friction. It's just this collision of those two

1112
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,320
Speaker 1: forces in modern life.

1113
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like that's that's the read. It's funny

1114
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 5: because it like greases the skids in some ways to

1115
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 5: like introduce weirder frictions into your life. It's like I'm

1116
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 5: going to take the easy way out, but now I'm

1117
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 5: going to go spend three hours in the gym, you

1118
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 5: know what I mean?

1119
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 4: There you go. That's a good point.

1120
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a good point. Yeah. I mean I

1121
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 3: think I've been thinking about this a lot lately, just

1122
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 3: as I've gotten into I've been getting into running. And

1123
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 3: I'm not like I'm six one, two sixty. I'm not

1124
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 3: naturally predisposed to being.

1125
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 4: Like it's built.

1126
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:16,280
Speaker 3: No, I'm getting I'm down, I'm under. I'm just barely

1127
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 3: under a twenty preid at five k. I'm working my

1128
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 3: way up at that build. I'll take it. But now

1129
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 3: I get running. Culture stuff peppered at me on my

1130
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 3: like toort form video feeds like TikTok and Instagram, and

1131
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 3: it is like all sports are consumerists, but running seems

1132
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 3: to be an extremely consumeris sort of subathletic culture. It's

1133
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 3: like you can buy your thirty dollars gels, and you

1134
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 3: can buy your like, you know, your fancy sunglasses and

1135
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 3: your five hundred dollars shoes and this and that. And

1136
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 3: I see people out running in Brooklyn all the time

1137
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 3: and they're wearing like all these crazy drive hit gear

1138
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 3: and Oakley's and super expensive shoes and I'm running on

1139
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 3: like a gigantic old Wyoming shirt and like crappy trail

1140
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 3: shoes and I don't feel better than Actually, I definitely

1141
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 3: don't feel better than them, because like I went out

1142
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,200
Speaker 3: and bought an actual period like two hundred dollar running

1143
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 3: shoes like recently, and I was like, oh, this is incredible.

1144
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 3: Like there's utility to these. I understand that, but it's

1145
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 3: it's like been such a good case study for me

1146
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: and how far consumersm can kind of take these things,

1147
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 3: you know, And it's it's not it's not necessary all

1148
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 3: the time. It is, I think to me, in somebody's

1149
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 3: counter to what athletics is. And yeah, I struggle with it.

1150
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, you know, the two hundred and fifty dollars

1151
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 5: gentle glide racing shoes are kind of the testosterone for

1152
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 5: your feet, the super suit of the feet totally.

1153
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.

1154
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: We had Brady Homer, who's a two like twenty five

1155
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,800
Speaker 1: marathon or Jesus psycho, and he said yeah, but he

1156
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 1: did say that the super shoes probably give him a

1157
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: six percent decrease in his time. So we're talking going

1158
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: from like two thirty down to two twenty five or

1159
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: something like that.

1160
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 4: Wow, that's and it's just.

1161
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: In the shoes. So it's really interesting. So where do

1162
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: you think the Enhanced Games go from here?

1163
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 5: Shortly after the Games, you know, they they kind of

1164
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 5: doubled down the stakes. They were like, oh, Usain, if

1165
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 5: someone could beat Hussein Bolt sold record, We're going to

1166
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 5: not do a million dollar prize. It's going to be

1167
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 5: a ten million dollar prize now. So in some ways

1168
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 5: I kind of feel like, you know, this sort of

1169
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 5: first iteration of the Games was designed to attract other

1170
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 5: athletes who are probably a higher caliber, who you know,

1171
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 5: have a little bit more of a reputation to be like, yeah,

1172
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 5: I could win that easy money, I could win two

1173
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty thousand dollars like beating some scrubs. And

1174
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 5: I thought what was really telling about it is afterwards

1175
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 5: Ryan Lockedey, you know, he was kind of like, Oh,

1176
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 5: I kind of wish I competed, Like that sounds like

1177
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 5: something I would do.

1178
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 2: And so it's like, Oh, if you're going.

1179
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 5: To get people who are on that level like sort

1180
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 5: of you know, voicing interest and perhaps even doing it, like,

1181
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 5: I think that's going to be a lot more interesting

1182
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 5: and kind of fun to see.

1183
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: Do you think that legitimizes it or it becomes like

1184
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: even more spectacular spectacle.

1185
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 3: So for me, like my two big questions about the

1186
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 3: future of this are I guess one thing I would

1187
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 3: preface is that like billionaires funding their like quirky sporting

1188
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 3: events is not new. I think about Trump and the

1189
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 3: New Jersey generals, you know, like or the XFL and

1190
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 3: Vince McMahon, what I would say, like, you know, I

1191
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 3: think part of the one of the big points to

1192
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 3: that point is there one of the big questions to

1193
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: that point is how long will Christian Angermeier and company

1194
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 3: continue to want to hemorrhage money engaging in this operation

1195
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 3: because they're going to have to keep paying athletes a

1196
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: ton of money to do this, and they need the

1197
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: business to work, and it's hard for me to understand

1198
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: how enhanced stands out from keeps or hymns or row

1199
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 3: or etcetera, etcetera. But then also I think the big question,

1200
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 3: I think this is maybe the most important thing for

1201
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 3: the future of the Enhanced Games is the case study

1202
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 3: of Hunter Armstrong, the backstroker who competed unenhanced. So he

1203
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 3: throughout the process was like, I I still want to

1204
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 3: compete in the Olympics. I just desperately need money, and

1205
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 3: the Olympics are a scam and they don't pay you,

1206
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 3: and so I am going to do this and I

1207
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 3: want WADA. Please keep testing me. I will be you know,

1208
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna do this competition and then come back.

1209
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 3: It is currently unclear if they're going to let him

1210
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 3: compete in the Olympics and the World Championships and whatever

1211
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 3: moving forward. They did happen to test him directly after

1212
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 3: the he competed at the Enhanced Games. They pulled him

1213
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 3: aside and tested him, which is funny. But the question

1214
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 3: of whether or not he's going to get banned, I

1215
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 3: think is important because if he's not then that opens

1216
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 3: the door. I think two tons of other athletes who

1217
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 3: still want to stay in the Olympics system coming over

1218
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 3: and competing, and that's how you're going to get the

1219
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 3: kind of athletes who could break world records for at

1220
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 3: twenty five six, so you know, and I think that

1221
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 3: if that happens, if he's allowed to compete, then I

1222
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 3: could see the floodgates opening. And then the question just

1223
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 3: is like how long does enhanced want to hemorrhage money

1224
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 3: paying because they cannot be profitable.

1225
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,320
Speaker 1: There's no way, right if everyone breaking the records is

1226
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: not actually using the substance as you're selling, there's no

1227
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: incentive to the consumer to go buy the substances, and

1228
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: then where does the money come from?

1229
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and then you're left with like, you know,

1230
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 5: teachers versus the JV team day.

1231
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Well the podcast is superhuman. It's awesome,

1232
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: really great on the ground reporting. I love what you

1233
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: did with the episodes. I especially like episode three. That

1234
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: was one that I immediately sent to my producer Robbie.

1235
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 1: I was like, listen to this, this is great.

1236
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 3: Shout out Lendams, our senior producer, incredible sound designer.

1237
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome well, great work, guys, and I appreciate you

1238
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: coming on.

1239
01:01:39,720 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate you for having us.

1240
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for checking out the show, and thanks to Chris

1241
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: and Sam for coming on to talk about the enhanced

1242
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: games and their podcast Superhuman. As a reminder, two percent

1243
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: is in your feed twice a week, so please subscribe

1244
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: so you get those updates. We are always open to

1245
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: your questions for our Ask Michael Anything section, Sending the

1246
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: media at two pc T dot com or drop me

1247
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 1: in the comments. If you want to watch this on video,

1248
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: the free iheartapp allows you to do just that. Give

1249
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: them download, watch us on video, and as always, have fun,

1250
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: don't die