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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Norri

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Speaker 1: back with Mark Leslie. His website is linked up at

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM dot com. Mark. We were talking

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Speaker 1: about McCobb Montreal. I'll let you finish up a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that. It's really an unusual interesting place, isn't it. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was talking a little bit about what was going

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Speaker 1: on at McGill University where there was some connections to

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Speaker 1: investigations being done by the CIA in terms of brainwashing,

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Speaker 1: and there were over eighty patients who had suffered through

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Speaker 1: some of the experiments they were doing. And it was

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Speaker 1: a combination of sensory deprivation, lack of sleep, electric shocks,

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Speaker 1: and drugs like LSD and other drugs. Trying to get

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Speaker 1: the students, for example, who believed one thing, whether it

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Speaker 1: was religious, pro religious, anti religious, anti scientific, etc. And

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Speaker 1: then just just doing this to them and then forcing

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Speaker 1: uh these this audio recorded audio over and over and over,

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Speaker 1: so they would come out completely brainwatched, kind of like

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Speaker 1: you know, you remember the manuring candidates. Yeah, great, very similar.

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Speaker 1: So that was a significant thing that happened right then

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Speaker 1: in mcgo University. So that was kind of a disturbing

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Speaker 1: thing when you think about that. So it's you know,

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Speaker 1: you look at a big city like that and you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about all the bizarre, underground things that could be

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Speaker 1: happening through time. You co authored a book called Haunted

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Speaker 1: Hospitals Fascinating Story And when you were on coast with me,

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Speaker 1: you got an interesting call that still shakes you tell

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Speaker 1: us about that. Yeah, this was this was This was

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Speaker 1: really disturbing because it was one of the live calls

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Speaker 1: and I had I think you and I were probably

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Speaker 1: talking about one of my Haunted Bookstore book at the

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Speaker 1: time and bookstores and libraries, and we had all all

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Speaker 1: from a caller from Alberta, Canada, from Canada myself, and

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Speaker 1: it was from the Panocca Alberta Mental Hospital and this

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Speaker 1: was where this person had worked as a you know,

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Speaker 1: work there with the patients. And this story was related

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Speaker 1: to a woman that we will call Martha for for

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Speaker 1: lack of using her real name, and she was in

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Speaker 1: her mid fifties and this isn't the early eighties when

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Speaker 1: this happened, and he he would work the night shift,

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Speaker 1: often with other candidates. She would get violent. They would

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Speaker 1: have to have multiple people hold her down. There were

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Speaker 1: times when they believed that she must have been possessed

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Speaker 1: because she would complain about the room she was in

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Speaker 1: being very, very cold, and then they'd move her to

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Speaker 1: another room, and then the room was cold, and they

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Speaker 1: moved her to another room. In the room she was in,

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Speaker 1: we go back to normal, and then the new room

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Speaker 1: they put put her and was constantly cold. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that freaked me out was when the caller described

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Speaker 1: and walking into a room one night and checking up

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Speaker 1: on her. They would often hear her having these conversations

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Speaker 1: and screaming and stuff like that in the room, and

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Speaker 1: he heard these voices from the room, so he went

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Speaker 1: into check and she is sleeping. But the freaky thing

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Speaker 1: about it was she was sleeping, but she was standing

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Speaker 1: with her feet on the wall, about four feet up

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Speaker 1: from the wall, and she was parallel to the ground.

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Speaker 1: Her head was facing down. He could see her hair

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Speaker 1: hanging over her face, and she was sleeping but kind

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Speaker 1: of sort of levitating, but sort of standing on the

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Speaker 1: side of the wall. He backed out of the room,

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Speaker 1: freaked out, didn't know what to do, didn't tell anyone.

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Speaker 1: He went back to the room where they were watching TV,

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Speaker 1: and dude, you know, the break room didn't say anything

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Speaker 1: until he came on that show. Until you know, he

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Speaker 1: came on your show and shared the story. Now, your

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Speaker 1: producer was kind enough to put me in contact with

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Speaker 1: him afterwards because I wanted to go more details to

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Speaker 1: include in Haunted Hospitals, which I had been working on.

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Speaker 1: And that's when he shared the story. That a friend

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Speaker 1: of his heard the show and recognized his voice and

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Speaker 1: contacted them a couple of days later, and they went

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Speaker 1: out for coffee, and his friends said, when I heard

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Speaker 1: you tell that story, I'm about to tell you something

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Speaker 1: I've never told anyone before. And he went into that

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Speaker 1: same woman's room a different night and saw the same

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, which she was levitating, standing completely up,

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Speaker 1: and she was about a foot off the floor. And

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Speaker 1: again she was sleeping, but her body was just levitating

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Speaker 1: in the air. And again, I'm just getting goosebumps just

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Speaker 1: thinking about about that right now. And that was just

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Speaker 1: a really freaky incident. What's amazing, what's happening. What do

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Speaker 1: you think of possessions, Mark, Well, I think I'm fascinated

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Speaker 1: by the fact that is a possession. A demon that's

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Speaker 1: inhabiting somebody's body is just a spirit, a loss spirit

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Speaker 1: or a ghost. And I think of the same thing

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Speaker 1: with possessions of a people or of things, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's really a difficult thing to consider. But when

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Speaker 1: you think about how do how do evil entities get

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Speaker 1: into our world through people? Maybe one of the ways

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Speaker 1: right through through a person, through a body. It maybe

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Speaker 1: one of the ways that they can inhabit this plane

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Speaker 1: is by taking over a person's body. And if they do,

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Speaker 1: look out, I know when their exorcisms performed. These demons

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Speaker 1: are more than just spirits. They're pretty evil. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're They're very very much not just the spirit of

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Speaker 1: a departed person, but something a lot darker, a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot more disturbing. You've got other books out there,

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Speaker 1: of course, called Spooky Sudberry tell us about that. Sudbury

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Speaker 1: is where I grew up in mid northern Ontario. It

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Speaker 1: is a mining community, the nickel capital of the world,

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Speaker 1: and there were plenty of ghost stories from there, but

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Speaker 1: also plenty of UFO stories, which I thought was quite

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Speaker 1: quite fascinating. Tell us about your beliefs in u Falls well, sorry,

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Speaker 1: tell us about your belief system and U falls well,

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Speaker 1: I mean when you think about the universe and you

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Speaker 1: think about the lights and all the planets, and you know,

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Speaker 1: very scientifically, can't possibly be the only the only you know,

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Speaker 1: beings that exist and the only beings that have evolved

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Speaker 1: to create technology. So you know, the likeliness that there

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Speaker 1: are other species graveling with technologies more advanced than ours

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Speaker 1: is very very likely. So one of the things about

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Speaker 1: Sudbury is with with the nickel repositor. So Sudbury was

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Speaker 1: basically built when a giant asteroid slammed into the meteor

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Speaker 1: slammed to the Earth there depositing tons of resources that

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Speaker 1: they're mining to this day. And there's a belief that

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Speaker 1: either the extraterrestrials are attracted to what's in the ground

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Speaker 1: because it's rich resources, or some of the theories are

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Speaker 1: that maybe the resources themselves in the ground may be

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Speaker 1: affecting the way we see things. So sometimes our perceptions

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Speaker 1: can be altered by waves and things in the ground.

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Speaker 1: There's new trino lab in Sebury, for example, where you know,

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Speaker 1: because of the cosmic rays that are constantly bombarding us

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Speaker 1: that it's so so far deep underground that they can

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Speaker 1: actually do proper experiments without the cosmic rays affecting them.

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Speaker 1: But what would shock me when I when I decided

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Speaker 1: to write Spooky Sebury, I thought, Okay, it'll be mostly ghosts,

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Speaker 1: there'll be some other mysteries, and we'll have one chapter

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Speaker 1: on UFOs. And when I started to dig into it,

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Speaker 1: Sudbury was hot bet of UFOs. I ended up doing

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Speaker 1: four chapters. I did the fifties and sixties and seventies,

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Speaker 1: and then the eighties and beyond. And that that was

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Speaker 1: because there was an incident that actually involved sending the

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Speaker 1: US Air Force from Colorado Springs from Norad all the

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Speaker 1: way up to Sudbury because of something that they saw

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Speaker 1: on the radars. That really that's a grad story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this was in seventy six, I believe, if I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at my notes properly, And it was a really disturbing time.

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Speaker 1: I was nineteen seventy five, I should say. And there

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Speaker 1: were three different reports of these three objects in the sky.

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Speaker 1: And I believe the reason Norad probably sent the fighter

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Speaker 1: jets up was they probably thought they were Russian or

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Speaker 1: something something that that regard. But there were pages and

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Speaker 1: pages of documentation of what they saw and what happened

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Speaker 1: that have of course been redacted, and so can look

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Speaker 1: at these documents. You see, you know, there's like a

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Speaker 1: couple of lines here, and then it's all blacked out.

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Speaker 1: It's all blacked out. So it's like something bizarre happened

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Speaker 1: in the skies over Sudbury. And and and and again

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Speaker 1: I was I was alive for that, and I remember

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Speaker 1: people still talking about just like the panic that was

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Speaker 1: in the air at that time. What is the god helmet?

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Speaker 1: What's that story that is? This is from a Laurentian university,

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Speaker 1: a doctor Michael Persinger, and he it's a scadoo helmet,

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Speaker 1: a snow machine helmet which has been converted to put

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Speaker 1: electrodes on. And it's a combination of putting somebody in

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Speaker 1: a in a room that's not quite pretty, sensory deprivation,

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Speaker 1: putting the helmet on, and then triggering electrical stimulation with

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Speaker 1: you know, from this almost like an eg but actually

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Speaker 1: triggering different parts of the brain and actually stimulating a

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Speaker 1: part of the brain that actually causes them to see things.

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Speaker 1: And what I found so fascinating about this experiment was

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Speaker 1: that if a person is one who believes in UFOs,

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Speaker 1: they will have they have this uncanny sense that there's

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Speaker 1: a presence in the room with them, and and and

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Speaker 1: if they believe in UFOs, that it is an alien

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Speaker 1: that's come down and has appeared in their room, other people.

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Speaker 1: It may be angels, it may be demons, it may

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Speaker 1: be you know, spirits of departed loved ones, whatever. And

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Speaker 1: it's interesting when you look at the way that the triggering.

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Speaker 1: So the question is is is it causing them to

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Speaker 1: see things that aren't there or is it allowing them

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Speaker 1: to see things that are that are there that we

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Speaker 1: normally can't see. And so that was really fascinating to

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Speaker 1: think that that was happening, you know, with a psychologist

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Speaker 1: in in in Subury, Ontario, where where I grew up,

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Speaker 1: you know, always worried about what was what was there

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Speaker 1: that I couldn't see in the dark. What do you

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Speaker 1: think the paranormal is all about in the first place, Mark,

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Speaker 1: I think the paranormal in general, like when you when

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Speaker 1: you think about every any society around the world, any culture,

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Speaker 1: there is this you know, question about what happens, whether

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Speaker 1: there's a soul, what happens when we die? Do we

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Speaker 1: live on that sort of thing. And so the paranormal

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Speaker 1: is one of the ways that we explore that and

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Speaker 1: we look at it and we think about the way

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Speaker 1: that that's going to continue. There when you think about

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Speaker 1: hauntings and spirits and stuff like that, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: there's theories about it. If it's not a spirit or

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Speaker 1: a soul of somebody or a demon or whatever, is

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Speaker 1: it something that happened in a place and time that

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Speaker 1: left a powerful impression, like a you know, like on

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Speaker 1: an old cathold ray tube when you know something was

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Speaker 1: frozen on the screen for a long time and it

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Speaker 1: just left an impression. And are we seeing these film

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Speaker 1: reels of some being really traumatic that happened or some

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Speaker 1: unresolved incident. So it's just what I love is that,

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Speaker 1: And we're trying to measure measure things with stuff that's

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Speaker 1: not typically or easily measurable by conventional methods. Sad story

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Speaker 1: about Emily in the attic. Yeah, so this is this

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Speaker 1: is one I'm working on for a weird Waterloo where

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Speaker 1: I live now, and this is this was the old

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Speaker 1: Gault post office in Cambridge, Ontario, rec beside Waterloo. And

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Speaker 1: so Emily was a woman who worked at the old

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Speaker 1: post office and we're talking about oh, we're talking, you know,

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Speaker 1: eighteen nineties, early nineteen hundreds, and there was a postmaster

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Speaker 1: there by the name of William Turnbull, and he was

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Speaker 1: the postmaster, and Emily was this beautiful young single employee.

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Speaker 1: William was married, and William and Emily began to have

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Speaker 1: an affair and they fell in love, and he remained

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Speaker 1: married and Emily was sort of starting to get restless.

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Speaker 1: She was approaching him about wanting to, you know, come

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Speaker 1: out and talk about this. And the next thing they

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Speaker 1: knew was she was found hanging from the raft in

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Speaker 1: the clock tower in the post office. There was a

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen in this Hoppe suicide or murder. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: exactly the questions. Was it suicide or murder? There was

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Speaker 1: a there was the story, and it was unconfirmed as

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Speaker 1: whether or not she was actually pregnant, and maybe she

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Speaker 1: hung herself because she was distraught at the thought of

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Speaker 1: trying to raise a child on her own. And then

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Speaker 1: he died shortly after that, and so it was never

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Speaker 1: really solved whether you know, she was murdered or whether

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Speaker 1: something happened. But Emily's ghost, which sometimes people so this

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Speaker 1: this building was turned into restaurants and bars and clubs

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Speaker 1: two or three or over decades, and sometimes when the

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Speaker 1: staff were working late at night, they would look up

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Speaker 1: and they would see as shape as if there was

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Speaker 1: something hanging there. Every once in a while they could

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Speaker 1: hear a crying, they could hear a whaling coming from

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Speaker 1: from it seemed to be coming from above, that they

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Speaker 1: believed was Emily that was crying. They've done numerous investigations

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Speaker 1: over the years, and interestingly enough, the buildings now a

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Speaker 1: local library, and again there are reports of librarians hearing

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Speaker 1: hearing strange noises, hearing the crying coming from, you know,

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Speaker 1: places where there's nobody there. So that was a that

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Speaker 1: was a really fascinating story, but also, you know, quite

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Speaker 1: sad for poor Emily. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: AM every weeknight at one am Eastern and go to

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast am dot com for more