Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex Barth. Lazar Lazar, well, everybody nailed it.
Speaker 1: He joined us, always buying our Bard match. Here is
Speaker 1: Evan Lazar and Alex barks for years. I bring this
Speaker 1: guy up and Evan rolls's eyes at me. We did
Speaker 1: it with Troy Anderson last year. We did it with
Speaker 1: all of these guys last year, we did past years.
Speaker 1: But this guy's a hog Molly, Alex. This guy's nasty.
Speaker 1: He's nasty, all right. He buries people into the ground,
Speaker 1: he turns him out. The problem is is he's a
Speaker 1: freaking guard. Two. There we go. I still don't think
Speaker 1: your micson. I think there. All right, We're good, We're good.
Speaker 1: It's okay, all right, we're in Matt behind the Glass.
Speaker 1: Got a lot going on today. We understand and still
Speaker 1: love Cody Mock, but we're not gonna do Cody Mock today.
Speaker 1: Today is a big show. We're gonna preview the NFL
Speaker 1: Combine coming up next week in Indianapolis. I will be
Speaker 1: going to the combine with Deuce with Mike Dusseau at
Speaker 1: Patriots dot com and we'll be covering it there for
Speaker 1: Patriots dot Com all week long, and we'll do a
Speaker 1: Catch twenty two as well. Alex will be here in studio,
Speaker 1: he'll drive the ship and I'll call in and we'll
Speaker 1: do a Catch twenty two with me and Indy next week,
Speaker 1: so we'll still have the show. So I'm really looking
Speaker 1: forward to it. I love the Combine. The Combine is
Speaker 1: my favorite NFL event on the calendar. Big underpants Olympics guy.
Speaker 1: I love the Underpan's Olympics, but I really like getting
Speaker 1: to talk to the prospects and the interviews. I think
Speaker 1: that's really cool. This is not to throw shate at
Speaker 1: the Shrine Bowl, but we get the first round guys
Speaker 1: in this right, so we get the top of the
Speaker 1: of the top, the cream of the crop come to
Speaker 1: the Combine. I also really just love I love the
Speaker 1: idea of this being like NFL spring Break, where every
Speaker 1: single decision maker in the league is in one place
Speaker 1: for a week. You just want to go rob Elbos.
Speaker 1: You just want to feel famous. Of course, that's all
Speaker 1: it is. Of Course, Evan doesn't like the Combine for
Speaker 1: the football. He just wants to feel like a big shot.
Speaker 1: To be honest with you, the combine really isn't about
Speaker 1: the football in some respects. A lot of the deals
Speaker 1: that get done in the off season start at Saint
Speaker 1: Elmo's at two o'clock in the morning when everybody's had
Speaker 1: a few too many. Like that's just the bottom line.
Speaker 1: It's absolutely true. I'm gonna need this little bit clipped.
Speaker 1: So when Evan texts me next week and it's like,
Speaker 1: I can't believe him on the road again, I can't
Speaker 1: believe I'm traveling that, Like, I can just reply to
Speaker 1: him with this, No, the combine. I don't get like
Speaker 1: that about the combine. Combines great US, It's draft, it's football.
Speaker 1: It's obviously going and getting some shrimp at Saint Elmo's
Speaker 1: and maybe you see Andy Reid sitting at the bar
Speaker 1: eating a cheeseburger, Like that's what the combine's all about.
Speaker 1: You just want to feel like a big shot. You
Speaker 1: can go and sit in the lobby of you know,
Speaker 1: the JW and entire every GM al thirty two of
Speaker 1: them are gonna come walk and buy at some point.
Speaker 1: That's the combine, Hollywood. Evan just wants to star watch that.
Speaker 1: You're not wrong. You look at you just you never
Speaker 1: know you never know who you might bump into, You
Speaker 1: never know who you might walk by, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you have a conversation. And even if
Speaker 1: it doesn't come to anything, even if you don't learn anything,
Speaker 1: at least you got in front of that person, right,
Speaker 1: You got a face to face with somebody important. It's cool.
Speaker 1: So here's why I like to combine. We do. And
Speaker 1: by the way, you can do this not having to
Speaker 1: be they're not having to go reb elbows. We talk
Speaker 1: about all these projections, right and the board looks like this,
Speaker 1: and this guy's projected to go here. But we do
Speaker 1: that now because it's what we have. You don't get
Speaker 1: the first real like so much can change with combine. Yes,
Speaker 1: that first, those first mocks coming out of the combine,
Speaker 1: that first projected board after is when you really start
Speaker 1: to get a good idea of who's going to go.
Speaker 1: Where there are players right now that realistically one person
Speaker 1: could project to go in the first round, one person
Speaker 1: could project to go in the third round, and both
Speaker 1: like there's a case for both. There's some positions where
Speaker 1: the top three four five players you can stack up
Speaker 1: in any order with those five, and there's an argument
Speaker 1: for all of it, we really start to sort some
Speaker 1: of that out. Like you said earlier, consensus after this
Speaker 1: is right, especially a lot of these top guys, they
Speaker 1: don't go to the Senior Bowl to Shrine Bowl, any
Speaker 1: of them, right, Right, We've talked about this with the tackles.
Speaker 1: We don't know what this tackle group is going to
Speaker 1: look like. The receivers too, And we'll get into some
Speaker 1: of this as we go throughout the show, right, But
Speaker 1: we're actually going to get to start to kind of
Speaker 1: sort some of these things out. And how many times
Speaker 1: we said, well we'll see about this at the Combine,
Speaker 1: or we'll see about that at the combine or arm
Speaker 1: length or forty time. I'm very excited to put those
Speaker 1: qualifiers to the side and actually get that information. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a great point, and that's what I'll be doing. Well,
Speaker 1: you're trying to, like, you know, follow any read into
Speaker 1: an elevator, So peak following Andy read into an elevator.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you remember this. My very very first year
Speaker 1: at the Combine, I flew out on the very last day.
Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that you could leave early, right, I didn't know
Speaker 1: that was a thing. I didn't know that you didn't
Speaker 1: have to be there for all eight days or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, because I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 1: So I was there the whole time. I took the
Speaker 1: very last flight on Sunday night after everything was over,
Speaker 1: out of Indianapolis to Boston, and everybody besides Bill Belichick
Speaker 1: from the Patriots organization was on the plane with me
Speaker 1: all the everyone. Weren't you like sitting next to Ernie
Speaker 1: at the gate. Yeah, Ernie Adams was just sitting there
Speaker 1: at the gate, and I asked him one question. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to overstep, right, so I went up to
Speaker 1: him and said, hey, Ernie Evan Lazar. You know where
Speaker 1: I worked at the time. And I said to Ernie,
Speaker 1: what's the combine like for you? Like, what is that?
Speaker 1: And he said to me that it's a fact finding mission.
Speaker 1: That this is nothing to do with We've already done tape,
Speaker 1: we've already done evaluations, we've already done all that. But
Speaker 1: it's medicals, it's interviews, and it's really filling out the
Speaker 1: scouting report and finalizing and crossing teas and dotting eyes
Speaker 1: and getting to know some of the kids a little
Speaker 1: bit more. That you maybe don't know very well yet
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. So along those lines, I think,
Speaker 1: so that's why I said, and I was half joking
Speaker 1: about about the bar, but the medicals and the interviews,
Speaker 1: the meetings, I should have brought that up to Seeing
Speaker 1: who's meeting with who is also a big thing, especially
Speaker 1: for I think we both have players in this draft
Speaker 1: that we like that for one reason or another, the
Speaker 1: meetings are going to be very important. Exactly, and those medicals, right,
Speaker 1: A lot of these kids are I keep saying that,
Speaker 1: like I'm a ninety A lot of these guys are
Speaker 1: coming off of Hey, they're just kids, man. At that reference,
Speaker 1: you don't watch college football. A lot of these guys
Speaker 1: are coming off season ending injuries, nagging injuries, some of
Speaker 1: them opted out of bowl games due to quote unquote injuries. Right,
Speaker 1: So you got to learn a lot of that type
Speaker 1: of stuff too. But I think also for us, and
Speaker 1: then I want to get into the actual part of
Speaker 1: the show we want to do here. I think for us,
Speaker 1: we I wish I had Zebra technology and all that
Speaker 1: type of stuff where I got the next gen miles
Speaker 1: per hour on every wide receiver, but we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: have that, So I think forty times can really solidify
Speaker 1: a guy. Okay, this guy's fast, right like Zay Flowers,
Speaker 1: we all think he's fast. Yeah, is he? Does that
Speaker 1: get confirmed in the forty yard dash? Does a guy
Speaker 1: run a lot faster or slower in the forty yard dash?
Speaker 1: And maybe you were expected? Let the kid go back
Speaker 1: and watch when I give you a couple of examples.
Speaker 1: And it can also be by the way he says
Speaker 1: a Flowers is fast, Jordan Habits is also fast? Who's faster?
Speaker 1: Last year, Taekwon Thornton was Some people had him like
Speaker 1: fifth round was the highest I saw him. Some people
Speaker 1: had him going undrafted going into the combine. Yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: some people want to say the Patriots overdrafted him at fifty,
Speaker 1: but he was expected to be a top one hundred pick.
Speaker 1: He went from friends draft to top one hundred pick.
Speaker 1: Then there was David Bell from Perdue, remember him, who
Speaker 1: was the first everybody had him as a first round pick.
Speaker 1: Some people had him as their top wide receiver on
Speaker 1: the board. He ended up going He ran a bad
Speaker 1: forty end up going in the third round, and some
Speaker 1: people thought that was too high for him. So that's
Speaker 1: not gonna be every player, but there's gonna be a
Speaker 1: handful of players we like who are gonna fall way
Speaker 1: down after this. And there's gonna be some players either
Speaker 1: And you remember this, I was in on tai quad
Speaker 1: before the Combine. There's gonna be a handful of players.
Speaker 1: Why do I always have to do that? I don't
Speaker 1: have I don't have the fifty thousand Twitter followers and
Speaker 1: the New England Patriots behind me like Evan Lazard does,
Speaker 1: so I have to make sure I get my message out. Wow. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the point being, there's gonna be some players we really like,
Speaker 1: and maybe right now we have an idea of who
Speaker 1: some of those guys might be who are gonna fall
Speaker 1: way down in the rankings, and we're gonna think a
Speaker 1: lot less of coming out of this as football players.
Speaker 1: And maybe there's some guys that either that either we
Speaker 1: don't think highly of right now, we aren't even on
Speaker 1: our radar, that are gonna shoot up. Pierre Strong was
Speaker 1: a guy last year, Isaiah Pacheco, both of them, neither
Speaker 1: of them were really on my radar going into the combine.
Speaker 1: They tied for the fastest forty art dash and then
Speaker 1: you know, you start to look and it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's actually something here. Yeah, so the board's gonna change.
Speaker 1: It's all about confirming your priors or not confirming your priors, right, Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's what the combine is for for for people
Speaker 1: like us especially. I think teams nowadays. The reason why
Speaker 1: I brought up like Zebra and next gen and all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is because I think teams nowadays
Speaker 1: have that type of data where maybe they rely more
Speaker 1: on in game speed data than forties. But I still
Speaker 1: think the forty matters, and I still think that the
Speaker 1: combine matters as a whole, is an important part of
Speaker 1: this whole process. I think there's an element of you
Speaker 1: always here. It's the most important job interview right of
Speaker 1: their lives. Maybe he's fast, but like this thing's clearly important.
Speaker 1: Did he get himself ready for it? How seriously did
Speaker 1: he take this? It's not just that he's fast, it's
Speaker 1: that he got himself in position best time. Let's face it,
Speaker 1: nobody is going out on a football field and running
Speaker 1: a three code, right, So that's a skill that you
Speaker 1: train for leading up to the combine, and you have
Speaker 1: to learn it to a degree, right, You have to
Speaker 1: learn the technique, and you have to learn the best
Speaker 1: ways to run it. So can you pick that up quickly?
Speaker 1: Can you grasp things quickly? Can you move that way?
Speaker 1: All those things I think are part of it. I
Speaker 1: know I've heard guys after their rookie year where you know,
Speaker 1: we'll talk to guys be like, well, what are you
Speaker 1: looking forward to like this offseason your sophomore year, and
Speaker 1: they'll say, well, I'm actually looking forward to working on
Speaker 1: football this offseason right right, because they spend so much
Speaker 1: time going into their rookie year getting ready for the
Speaker 1: Combine that they're maybe not even working on their football technique.
Speaker 1: So I think we should be spokespeople for the combine
Speaker 1: because the NFLPA is pretty strongly starting to think that
Speaker 1: they don't need them. Hang on, but we just laid
Speaker 1: down the law and why the comments, they'll still be
Speaker 1: the meetings there. They'll still be those meetings and let's
Speaker 1: say where some company met, all right? So well, I
Speaker 1: also have my spiel about the forty yard dash. Do
Speaker 1: you know why they run the forty yar dash? You
Speaker 1: know why it's forty yards? Yeah? You told me this
Speaker 1: once before. You don't remember, do you? All right? Well,
Speaker 1: since we're doing the combine, Susan and I want everybody
Speaker 1: to remember this when you're watching the combine. I think
Speaker 1: I could remember all the useless crappy and I'll shout
Speaker 1: out Zach Hawks from nesson because he's the first person
Speaker 1: I've ever seen use the forty yard dash, actually, as
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be used during this season two about
Speaker 1: can you we don't have that time. That's true, we
Speaker 1: don't um When they started a combine, the average distance
Speaker 1: of a punt was forty yards. The whole point of
Speaker 1: the forty yard dash was simply to see how fast
Speaker 1: guys can get down field to cover a punt. Your guy,
Speaker 1: Michael Turkin punted further than forty yards. Well, it's not
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty dash. I'm just saying maybe they should maybe,
Speaker 1: But like that's all it is. Like people ascribe so
Speaker 1: much meaning to it. It's how fast can you get
Speaker 1: downfield and cover a punt? Essentially, And if you want
Speaker 1: to make anything more of it, you can, But that's
Speaker 1: all it really is. Okay, so here's what we're gonna
Speaker 1: do today. We'll take some calls to eighty five five
Speaker 1: pats five hundred and takes some emails as well. But
Speaker 1: the crux of the show here today is that we're
Speaker 1: Alex and I are going to go a position by
Speaker 1: a position guy. Is that we want to see? Are
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing an indie next week at the
Speaker 1: combine most interesting, most interesting, most intriguing. One player per
Speaker 1: person or doing one player per person, because we'll be
Speaker 1: here for five hours if we go more than one.
Speaker 1: You do you have your preview up yet? No? Up
Speaker 1: on Monday. Mine's gonna be up on Monday too. One
Speaker 1: per person and like we can fill in some holes
Speaker 1: elsewhere to get some other names in there, but one
Speaker 1: year person. Yeah, let's start with let's start with the
Speaker 1: sexiest position, the one that everybody likes to talk about,
Speaker 1: wide receiver. Who are you looking forward to seeing at
Speaker 1: wide receiver? And why? Honestly, it's so I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to see whok Seawn Boutet meets with. But in terms
Speaker 1: of the combine the drills, it's Quentin Johnston. Because what's
Speaker 1: he gonna run six, four, two fifteen. I have people
Speaker 1: telling me that he's this like elite, true number one
Speaker 1: generational prospect and the Patriots a draftsman at fourteen. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing if he runs a really people tell
Speaker 1: me he's going to run in the four fours. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if he runs in the four fours, he's not gonna
Speaker 1: be there. At fourteen, he's gonna be a top two pick. Right.
Speaker 1: So Calvin Johnson ran like a four to three at
Speaker 1: two thirty, and that's like the gold standard of a freak.
Speaker 1: DK Metcalf I think was two twenty eight and ran
Speaker 1: like a four three five. Christian Watson I don't think
Speaker 1: was that heavy. Now he's like two and he's closer
Speaker 1: to Johnson at like Johnson two fifty. Yeah, So Christian Watson,
Speaker 1: I feel like, is the he's a little bit trimmer
Speaker 1: than a guy like DK or or Calvin was. So
Speaker 1: maybe that's sort of the comp here. And I think,
Speaker 1: what was Watson like mid four threes? Do you really
Speaker 1: think he's running low? Four? Four? No? Do? And the
Speaker 1: reason why yeah, no, no, And at that point I'm
Speaker 1: not interested. As we've said, they need to see the
Speaker 1: reason why. I don't think I don't think he's a
Speaker 1: four to five. I think he's I think he's four
Speaker 1: four eight is what I'm gonna say, Like right there,
Speaker 1: I think the reason why he's that is. From what
Speaker 1: I see is he's more of one of those guys
Speaker 1: that's a builder of speed, right, Like he's got that
Speaker 1: those long strides and he builds up his speed as
Speaker 1: he goes. I don't necessarily look at him on film
Speaker 1: and see a guy that's just instantly out of the gates, right.
Speaker 1: And if you're gonna put up a time in the forty,
Speaker 1: you have to that ten yards split is really what
Speaker 1: you need to hit a low number on right, You
Speaker 1: have to really be moving early on. So I think
Speaker 1: that he's more of a builder of speed and someone
Speaker 1: that gets up to eighteen nineteen twenty miles an hour
Speaker 1: once he's in the open field, but might not get
Speaker 1: there instantly like as a Flowers for example. For people
Speaker 1: who don't know, the ten yards split is in addition
Speaker 1: to the forty time, you see the times for each
Speaker 1: ten like at ten yards, at twenty yards, at how
Speaker 1: long as you're starting to get to each of this,
Speaker 1: how you come out of the blocks? All right? So
Speaker 1: wide receiver for me, it's Jackson Smith and Jake. But
Speaker 1: my guy, I think he's wide receiver one. I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna run faster than people think. You think he's
Speaker 1: gonna run. I don't know if he's gonna run. That's
Speaker 1: the How do you think he's gonna run faster than
Speaker 1: people think? Is I think he will run either at
Speaker 1: his pro day or at the combat. Of course he's
Speaker 1: going to run. He's gonna run faster than people think,
Speaker 1: all right. And the main reason why I feel this
Speaker 1: so strongly about this is because I think the reason
Speaker 1: why Jason look quote unquote slower on film to a
Speaker 1: lot of people is because he actually knows how to
Speaker 1: pace out his routes and he's not just coming out
Speaker 1: of the blocks at one hundred miles an hour because
Speaker 1: he's setting up things right. He's running routes with good pacing,
Speaker 1: good timing, good rhythm, and good acceleration where he's got
Speaker 1: different gears, right, So, I think a big thing when
Speaker 1: you look about at wide receivers, it's not about running
Speaker 1: as fast as you can all the time. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: got to set things up. You've got to change gears
Speaker 1: mid route. When you get to the top of your route,
Speaker 1: that's when you really want to accelerate. And that's what
Speaker 1: I see from JSN. So I don't think that it's
Speaker 1: that he's slow. I just think that he's running routes
Speaker 1: with pacing, with timing. The other guy that reminds me
Speaker 1: of that used to do this and everybody thought that
Speaker 1: he was going to be slower is Justin Jefferson. Justin
Speaker 1: Jefferson ended up running a four four three or four
Speaker 1: four two seventy six percentile in the fourtime. Everybody was
Speaker 1: shocked at the time because when you watch him at LSU,
Speaker 1: it looks like he's moving slow because he's deliberate with
Speaker 1: his movement. It's right, he's not just shot out of
Speaker 1: a cannon. He's actually setting things up. He's pacing out
Speaker 1: the route, he's timing his route up with the quarterbacks
Speaker 1: drop and where he's gonna be in the landmarks and
Speaker 1: all that. That's PhD stuff, right, That's not guys that
Speaker 1: just come off the blocks and run one hundred miles
Speaker 1: an hour right off the gate, right out of the gate.
Speaker 1: That's that's not how you get open. That's not truly
Speaker 1: how you create separation real quick. Here for a wide receiver,
Speaker 1: what do you consider fast for forty times? At what
Speaker 1: point are you like that guy's fast low four fours?
Speaker 1: It depends on how big you are, I suppose, But
Speaker 1: that's fair. My default. Like, once a guy hits four
Speaker 1: four three, I'm like, all right, he's fast. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying now he runs a four four four is slow?
Speaker 1: But at four four three I don't know why that
Speaker 1: tenth of a second is that. I don't know what.
Speaker 1: There's probably some psychology. Actually a hundredth of a second, right,
Speaker 1: it's not even a tenth of one hundred of Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Somebody could probably figure that out. Why
Speaker 1: I'm wired that way. I got like a C minus
Speaker 1: and ap sych in high school. So well, but this
Speaker 1: is this kind of segues into my next point nicely.
Speaker 1: So we do this. We like round numbers, we like
Speaker 1: certain thresholds. So the next position on our list was
Speaker 1: tackle or lineman. But I'm gonna say tackle because God
Speaker 1: help us off. Oh I did. I did it like
Speaker 1: the mad in order of positions. Okay, now see how
Speaker 1: I'm doing it. I'm doing it as deeds are most important,
Speaker 1: dessitions or whatever. The next position we have on here
Speaker 1: is tackle because, like I just said, Lord help us off.
Speaker 1: I take another interior lignement early in this draft. No,
Speaker 1: you want Cody Mak, No, you want Cody mak, yes
Speaker 1: you do. We're gonna get to the guy that you've
Speaker 1: already convinced me on. All right, tackle, Yes, we will tackle.
Speaker 1: Peter Scarronsky's my guy to look it for in this
Speaker 1: number one thing. I want to come out of the combine.
Speaker 1: And we have to wait. I got the schedule today,
Speaker 1: O line, don't measure in until Sunday. You gotta today.
Speaker 1: I got a couple of days ago. Well, I just
Speaker 1: like was looking out today a week from Sunday. So
Speaker 1: the very last day of the combine is when we
Speaker 1: finally get a measurement on Peter Skerronsky's arm lethe which
Speaker 1: is the most antiquated thing ever about the whole draft process.
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is that if his arms come
Speaker 1: in under thirty three inches, everybody's gonna say he's a guard.
Speaker 1: Everybody is going to say he's a guard. No one's
Speaker 1: gonna have him at tackle anymore. He's gonna be a guard.
Speaker 1: And that's gonna be. That's it, right that that that's
Speaker 1: the end. Why thirty three inches, Like, if he's got
Speaker 1: thirty two and a half inch, ar can't play? Is
Speaker 1: that half an inch? Really? That's really where we're gonna
Speaker 1: make or break it. Right That that part of it,
Speaker 1: to me, I think is funny, but I think it
Speaker 1: comes it's twofold. Right. One is I know that some
Speaker 1: people have Isaiah Win PTSD when it comes to this,
Speaker 1: and they don't want to draft a quote unquote undersized tackle,
Speaker 1: right all right. They want that prototype, they want those measurements.
Speaker 1: That I think is one part of it. Part two,
Speaker 1: the difference wins like six one Peter Scronsky six four right, No,
Speaker 1: Peter Scronsky is not isah win? Yeah. Point two is
Speaker 1: that if he's gonna make it to fourteen, then the
Speaker 1: team thirteen teams ahead of the Patriots are gonna have
Speaker 1: to view him as a guard. For him to make
Speaker 1: it to fourteen. Well, it's it's a catch twenty two.
Speaker 1: If he did it again, I did it again. You're right.
Speaker 1: If his arms are long enough that he's definitely a tackle,
Speaker 1: then they're not getting him. And if he falls, it's
Speaker 1: probably because his arms aren't long enough. But either like,
Speaker 1: even if his arms are long enough and team's view
Speaker 1: him as a tackle, that's still a win to me
Speaker 1: for the Patriots. Because I've said this. Broderick Jones, Paris Johnson,
Speaker 1: Dwan Jones, Peter Scronski just come away with one. I
Speaker 1: don't really care who's your guy. It's it's Brodert Jones.
Speaker 1: I thought it was Dawan Jones. I think Dwan Jones.
Speaker 1: I went back and forth on this one. No, I
Speaker 1: think Dwan Jones is a better player, but I want
Speaker 1: I want the left tackle like that's no. I've been
Speaker 1: on this. I love Duwan Jones as a prospect, I
Speaker 1: really do. I wish Orlando Brown was going to be
Speaker 1: a free agent because then you can sign Orlando Brown
Speaker 1: or draft Duan Jones. But I just look at what's
Speaker 1: available to them. It's all right tackles in free agency.
Speaker 1: I could you move Dwan Jones to the left side,
Speaker 1: like maybe, but I don't really want to take that risk.
Speaker 1: I don't want to screw with his development like that.
Speaker 1: So realistically, it has to be Broderick Jones. And look,
Speaker 1: I don't think Broderick Jones is settling. I think he's
Speaker 1: a great talent. That being said, he's my guy to
Speaker 1: watch here because he I don't think he's undersized, but
Speaker 1: he's definitely nobody's gonna say he's got great sized. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's kind of sort of in limbo there. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just want to see what he comes in at. It'd
Speaker 1: be nice if he maybe bulked up a little bit
Speaker 1: since the season ended. And I think his athleticism is
Speaker 1: one of his best traits, so seeing how that tests,
Speaker 1: seeing his footwork. It's not really a time drill, but
Speaker 1: they do the thing where you're like, hold the football
Speaker 1: up and he got to run in the directions you
Speaker 1: know what Jones are all right, I'm interested to see
Speaker 1: him in that. So look, I want to see Dwan
Speaker 1: Jones dominant because that's all he does. And is he
Speaker 1: gonna run a sub five we'll see. I called Jordan
Speaker 1: Davis last year, but Brodrick Jones is the guy for
Speaker 1: me to watch. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: like if Scronsky is gonna go in the top ten,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be super bummed because that pushes Roderick
Speaker 1: Jones down, or it pushes Paris Johnson down. If they
Speaker 1: have the draft, Like if Dwan Jones is the only
Speaker 1: guy left and that's who they end up with, not
Speaker 1: a bad consolation prize. You make it work, You keep
Speaker 1: Trent Brown on the left side, and you figure it
Speaker 1: out from there. But yeah, I think it's as long
Speaker 1: as Scarnsky's arms are long, it's a win win for
Speaker 1: the Patriots, even if it puts him out of their reach.
Speaker 1: And I'm just laughing because I think it's so funny
Speaker 1: that that arm length is this important. But oh, the whole,
Speaker 1: the combines, hilario, it's ridiculous. The combine is objectively Rodrick Jones,
Speaker 1: though you mentioned it quickly there, his athleticism is his
Speaker 1: number one trait, his carrying trade, his number one trait,
Speaker 1: and his entire being is upside like. That's like his
Speaker 1: whole thing. Right. He's a little bit raw. He's only
Speaker 1: played nineteen games. I think he's always started nineteen games
Speaker 1: at Georgia, so he doesn't have the experience like of
Speaker 1: a Scarnski, doesn't have the prototypical build of a Paris Johnson.
Speaker 1: So for him to be a SUREFI or top ten pick,
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to put on an absolute show in
Speaker 1: India this week. Of these, of those three, I think
Speaker 1: he has the highest up side. He does, but that's
Speaker 1: that's his whole, that's that's the he's the upside tackle. Well, look,
Speaker 1: you're paying Adrian Clem a lot of money. Right, you know, well,
Speaker 1: go get him the upside guy. It's just interesting. You know,
Speaker 1: I was talking to Brandon Thorne, who does a lot
Speaker 1: of offensive line stuff. He's awesome, he was he has
Speaker 1: Broderick Jones as his OT three in draft, and I
Speaker 1: think a big reason why is because somebody like Brandon
Speaker 1: sees it like a coach and sees all the technicalities
Speaker 1: of the game that Broderick Jones needs to refine on.
Speaker 1: You'll have a refinement on. And he looks at it
Speaker 1: and says, he's a he's a little bit of a project.
Speaker 1: But I think that you it's kind of like how
Speaker 1: we talk about quarterbacks now too. Would you rather the
Speaker 1: guy that you're swinging for the fences and this guy
Speaker 1: could be an all Pro caliber, decade long type of player,
Speaker 1: or are you just going for the safer pick, which
Speaker 1: is scronsky, right, that type of guy that has all
Speaker 1: the technical refinement and all the polish. So it's an
Speaker 1: interesting conversation. All right, Uh, let's go through the rest
Speaker 1: of the offense here and then we'll take some calls
Speaker 1: and we'll do defense. Um, let's go tight end. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think this is a really interesting position for the Patriots.
Speaker 1: Going into this draft because we've talked about it a
Speaker 1: little bit, I guess more so with slot receivers. But
Speaker 1: I still feel feel like if they if the Patriots
Speaker 1: feel like the best way to get a number one
Speaker 1: weapon is a tight end in this draft and they
Speaker 1: feel like Mayor or Kincaid or one of these guys
Speaker 1: is the best route, I'm I'm cool with it, Like
Speaker 1: Rob Bronkowski, Travis Kelsey, Mark Andrews, Like, bring it off.
Speaker 1: Any of those guys you just named first round picks.
Speaker 1: No Mark Andrews was actually wasn't he? No Mark Andrews
Speaker 1: second round picks? So its Gronk, all right, So no,
Speaker 1: So maybe that's the case. Cronk, I know, was second right.
Speaker 1: I think okay, I knew his Day two. So regardless, like,
Speaker 1: if that's the round that they want to go and
Speaker 1: they want to build it through a tight end, I
Speaker 1: don't think that we should look at that as like
Speaker 1: a bad thing. And I don't think that Hunter Henry
Speaker 1: and Johnny his presence on the roster should be viewed
Speaker 1: as we can't do it this way because we have
Speaker 1: these two guys under contract on the roster, especially when
Speaker 1: you look at their contract status and you know, Hunter
Speaker 1: Henry's going into a contract year. Johnny Smith is going
Speaker 1: into a third year where if they can get rid
Speaker 1: of them, they might or they could walk away from
Speaker 1: his contract after next season. So I don't think that
Speaker 1: those two guys being on the roster should prohibit them
Speaker 1: from targeting a tight end if they feel like the
Speaker 1: tight ends the answer like, if he's gonna be I
Speaker 1: don't want to use Travis Kelcey or Gron because they're
Speaker 1: generational players, but if he's gonna be that for your offense,
Speaker 1: and I don't think you should have any questions about
Speaker 1: going for that player. So I go to Mayor because
Speaker 1: when I watch him at Notre Dame, I don't necessarily
Speaker 1: see like a dynamic, explosive athlete, right Like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's got great straight line speed. He's a
Speaker 1: little bit heavy footed coming into the break. He's not
Speaker 1: he's not explosive, he doesn't jump off the film in
Speaker 1: that regard. He's really really refined, polished guy. He's versatile,
Speaker 1: he can block, he can catch pass, he's got great
Speaker 1: ball skills. He's pretty good and at yak, you know
Speaker 1: he's got that rumbling kind of bowling ball yak style.
Speaker 1: So he's got a lot going for him, but I
Speaker 1: need to see like a high end athlete for me
Speaker 1: to be sold on that being a fourteenth overall pick.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at with Mayor. So I was all
Speaker 1: ready to talk about Darnel Washington six seven, two seventy.
Speaker 1: All he needs is a decent forty and he's going
Speaker 1: to push Mayor for the tight end one spot, right,
Speaker 1: a decent forty six seven, two seventy. Have you seen
Speaker 1: the way tacklers bounce off of that guy? I know,
Speaker 1: but he's so he is slow. That's why I said
Speaker 1: a dcent forty. If he runs a decent forty, to me,
Speaker 1: he's like he's a tackle slash tight end, right, He's
Speaker 1: not actually a pass catching pick. But that's why if
Speaker 1: he runs a decent forty, maybe he's gotten himself in
Speaker 1: more athletic shape here. If he runs a four eight,
Speaker 1: of course, yeah then no, okay, that's the whole point,
Speaker 1: is right, we're learning guy. So I was ready to
Speaker 1: talk about him, but a friend of mine texting me
Speaker 1: a mock draft for his team today it's not the Patriots,
Speaker 1: and I was looking at it, and that was good
Speaker 1: but I haven't feel like I know this friend. I
Speaker 1: don't think you do. Okay Falcons No, I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, I like this is pretty good draft. But
Speaker 1: he took this tight end in the sixth round. This
Speaker 1: kid from Old Dominion, Zach Cootz, who I've never heard of.
Speaker 1: He goes, look up Zach coots So this morning I'm
Speaker 1: watching You're in tight end is a tight end from
Speaker 1: Old Dominion named Zach Cootz. I'm watching. Well, who you
Speaker 1: of all people have never heard of until today. So
Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing some digging on this kid. First off,
Speaker 1: he was originally recruited to Penn State, which is a
Speaker 1: tight end factory, transferred to Old Dominion because he wanted
Speaker 1: to play more. Had an all conference season twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: got hurt three games into the season last year. He
Speaker 1: is six eight two fifty one and supposedly is running
Speaker 1: low four five forties in workouts. His ball skills are great.
Speaker 1: He's a really good route runner for his size. He
Speaker 1: actually lined up more in the slot than he did
Speaker 1: inline last year. I can't believe we're doing Old Dominion.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, so you've come back around from the
Speaker 1: last show Anyways, I'm fascinated by this kid. I am
Speaker 1: now fascinated, but I think you're fascinated because you didn't
Speaker 1: discover him, so therefore it now. I hate it. I
Speaker 1: hate it when I have to give other people credit
Speaker 1: for finding a player. No, here's why, because I they
Speaker 1: have Hunter Henry and Johny Smith under contract for another year. Right,
Speaker 1: they can go get a project player with a relatively
Speaker 1: low pick and just sort of see what happens. And
Speaker 1: if that guy doesn't hit, you re hit it next year.
Speaker 1: That's that's the approach you take. If you're sold that
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien a much more better offense. I don't want
Speaker 1: to use the word streamline because we made that mistake
Speaker 1: once already. R a much better offensive coordination and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. Hunter Henry and Johnny Smith are gonna be
Speaker 1: real players for you next year. Then you take the
Speaker 1: flyer on the day three. I think Hunter Henry can
Speaker 1: be from old dominion. Watch him, Okay, watch him. We're
Speaker 1: gonna see what he does. This look, this is more
Speaker 1: or less about when I found Tai Kwon last year.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying six eight two fifty. He's running four
Speaker 1: four five forties. You're not. It's not a little bit
Speaker 1: interesting to you. No, from Penn, the Penn State pedigree,
Speaker 1: that school, those tight ends. No, the South Dakota State
Speaker 1: tight ends a little bit interesting to me. Kraft, he's
Speaker 1: a good point. Dominion is a more technically a like
Speaker 1: higher prestige program than South Dat. He's a consensus top
Speaker 1: one hundred guy. Right, Well, this guy was hurt last year.
Speaker 1: And you know how, I like lat too. I still
Speaker 1: want to see law too. I like law Too too.
Speaker 1: But Zach Coonts Cameron Latto from Alabama. If Cameron Lawtoo
Speaker 1: is not supposed to run well, if he all puts
Speaker 1: up like a four to seven, which is like average
Speaker 1: for a tight end, that's a great time for him.
Speaker 1: What if Darnel Washington runs a four seven, No, still
Speaker 1: not enough for you. I just think he's a blocking time.
Speaker 1: I think he's Mercedes Lewis has been Leaf for like
Speaker 1: twenty years, and that's great. But they don't need Marcedes Lewis.
Speaker 1: They need they need a difference maker. He's he's more
Speaker 1: dynamic with the ball in his hands. In Mercedes Lewis,
Speaker 1: guys bounce off of it. Mercedes Lewis once had a
Speaker 1: seven hundred yard season. Cool. I need a guy that's
Speaker 1: gonna have a seventeen hundred yard season, not a seven
Speaker 1: hundred yard season. All right, Well, I'm just saying, Zach
Speaker 1: Coots old. I don't think he's gonna seventeen hundred yards,
Speaker 1: but maybe in his career. All right, running backs, this
Speaker 1: is the one. You know how much how I feel
Speaker 1: about running back. I hate running backs. But you were
Speaker 1: on my case to watch this guy. I'm a little
Speaker 1: bit convinced. Do I ever steer you wrong? Evan do
Speaker 1: the argument that I'm getting we're coming here in a
Speaker 1: month and he's gonna be talking about the draft. The
Speaker 1: argument that I'm gonna use here for this guy is
Speaker 1: that I think, with Ramandri Stevenson already here, that you
Speaker 1: can use this player in Bill O'Brien's offense as an
Speaker 1: offensive weapon, not just a running back, but an offensive
Speaker 1: weapon where he's a running back, he's sometimes a receiver,
Speaker 1: he's a gadget player. Right. He does all of those
Speaker 1: types of things from your offense. And that is Jamari
Speaker 1: Gibbs from Alabama, who I finally took some time yesterday
Speaker 1: and I finally scratch the itch that you've been coming
Speaker 1: at me about watching Gibbs and taking it seriously. With
Speaker 1: watching Gibbs, he has a gear that's special, his gear
Speaker 1: when he sees daylight and he hits the nas as
Speaker 1: I like to say, right, yeah, it's different. It's a
Speaker 1: different speed than everybody else on the field. And I'm
Speaker 1: talking about different against lsu K State like Tennessee, like
Speaker 1: teams with great athletes all over the field. Let me
Speaker 1: add to that too, it's not just the straight line speed.
Speaker 1: When he puts his foot in the ground to cut
Speaker 1: and comes out of that cute, he loses no speed,
Speaker 1: no momentum. He can change directions like that. Unbelievable, right,
Speaker 1: So I think it's a luxury pick. It certainly is.
Speaker 1: But I think the reason why I want to look
Speaker 1: at him at the combine is if he doesn't if
Speaker 1: he falls down the board even a little bit where
Speaker 1: all of a sudden he's maybe in round two, like
Speaker 1: you know, beginning a round two instead of end of
Speaker 1: round one, then maybe you can start to talk about
Speaker 1: using forty six to get him, which I think is
Speaker 1: a little bit more. I think you can stomach that
Speaker 1: a little bit better. Right, Like, let's say they go
Speaker 1: out in free agency and free agency, they address either
Speaker 1: tackle or receiver and they get a veteran guy to
Speaker 1: fill that spot. And now you're on the clock in
Speaker 1: the second round and Jamara Gibbs is You're you're at
Speaker 1: thirty eight and you're at forty six and Jamar Gibbs
Speaker 1: is still on the board, and you want to make
Speaker 1: that Christian bar More a trade up right, I think
Speaker 1: that you can sell yourself on that of using him
Speaker 1: a little bit like how the Chiefs use like Kadarius
Speaker 1: Tony down the stretch right where he's this offensive weapon.
Speaker 1: He's James White mixed with Kadarius Tony and he's just everything.
Speaker 1: You're over complicating it using him like Alabama used him
Speaker 1: last year. Well, which is what Alabama right where he's
Speaker 1: he was a slot receiver as much as he was
Speaker 1: a running that yeah, slot receiver, running back, ballcare offensive weapon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I can't help but look, so this is and
Speaker 1: this is how you're justifying it. And this is, by
Speaker 1: the way, what I tried to tell you months ago
Speaker 1: when you told me to shut up. You're not drafting
Speaker 1: him as a just as a running back. Now I'm
Speaker 1: also recognizing that he is very, very different than Remandre.
Speaker 1: It's a totally different skill set. I so it's funny.
Speaker 1: I think they could handle similar roles, but they would
Speaker 1: approve their approach would be different. I just think they're
Speaker 1: totally different. I think Jamara Gibbs is an explosive home
Speaker 1: run act. Yeah, and Romandre is more run through yet Yeah,
Speaker 1: Gibbs is more run past you, right, Like that's totally true.
Speaker 1: And I think that as a receiver, Jamara Gibbs is
Speaker 1: way more dynamic than Romandra. Yeah, Vermandre can catch the football,
Speaker 1: Jamara Gibbs is an impact player in the passing game.
Speaker 1: So I don't I'm still not like in love, you know,
Speaker 1: with me and running backs. I still don't love the idea.
Speaker 1: But if it happened, the way you're talking yourself into
Speaker 1: it is not considering him running back, right, And I
Speaker 1: would not watch Bijean yet, did you? I did a
Speaker 1: little bit. But Bijean to me has too much overlap
Speaker 1: with hermand Nope, I'm not saying they should take Beijean
Speaker 1: like Bijean to me, my comp for him is Leonard Fournette. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But what I'm wondering is if Jamir Gibbs has a
Speaker 1: good enough combine. If he runs a good enough forty,
Speaker 1: can he pass Bijean as RB one? Because I think
Speaker 1: he can. I think some teams I think might look
Speaker 1: at it that way. I have him as RB one
Speaker 1: right now just because of the passing game stuff. Right,
Speaker 1: Beijean's a good receiver. I don't think that he's Jamari
Speaker 1: Gibbs in the passing. He's not changing things for you
Speaker 1: in the passing, right, I would all just one more
Speaker 1: thing on Gibbs and you can give your guy watching
Speaker 1: how And I think a lot of it was out
Speaker 1: of necessity because Alabama didn't have the skill players that
Speaker 1: they usually do. But watching Bill O'Brien move this guy
Speaker 1: around and use him in so many different ways to
Speaker 1: get the football in his hands tells me what Bill
Speaker 1: O'Brian probably thinks of Jamari Gibbs. Oh, Bill O'Brien loves him, right,
Speaker 1: so I Bill Ryan loves him. And Bill O'Brien has
Speaker 1: any say in the draft room, and Bill says to him,
Speaker 1: we want to draft a weapon here. Who's the weapon
Speaker 1: you want to pick? And he says, Jamari Gibbs. Gibbs,
Speaker 1: That's the only reason we're having this conversation is Bill O'Brien.
Speaker 1: If they didn't hire Bill O'Brien, I don't think we'd
Speaker 1: be seriously talking about those. All Right, who's your guy?
Speaker 1: Deuce vaun from Kansas State? So Danny Woodhead, Well, no, Um,
Speaker 1: Darren Sprowls, it's probably a better Kansas State and like so,
Speaker 1: Deuce Vaughn was a top three pass catching back in
Speaker 1: college football last year. Honestly, might be him, Gibbs and
Speaker 1: Travis Dye. Who's another guy who se where he's out
Speaker 1: with his injury. Yeah, Um explodes it with the ball
Speaker 1: in his hands. Great runner, like he can really handle
Speaker 1: all three downs. But he's listed at five six, one
Speaker 1: seventy six. Hence the Darren Sprowls comp I want to
Speaker 1: see what he really measures in at. And he's a
Speaker 1: guy I think the Patriots would really like if the
Speaker 1: size checks out, Like I could see him in that
Speaker 1: James White role. He's a very good blocker for his size.
Speaker 1: Now there's limitations to come with that size. Five six
Speaker 1: one seventy six is still kind of built. He's like
Speaker 1: he's compassed, right, he's thick, muscle amster Doug Martin. I
Speaker 1: want to see what he really comes in at. I
Speaker 1: think he's going to be impressive in the drills and
Speaker 1: the measurements, but he didn't do a senior bowl. He
Speaker 1: didn't do the trying and bowl any of that. I
Speaker 1: want to see what he comes in at. He's you
Speaker 1: didn't watch him yet, did you. I watched him and
Speaker 1: Cross Okay, I really want you to watch. He's really explosive,
Speaker 1: but different than Gibbs because I think his speed is
Speaker 1: just shot out of a cannon right away, where Gibbs
Speaker 1: is more foot in the ground and go right. So
Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit of difference there. But
Speaker 1: Vaughan is if you want him to draft the next
Speaker 1: James White, next Kevin Falk Like, that's that's the guy.
Speaker 1: It's him, Eric Gray, and Travis Dye. Those are the
Speaker 1: three guys that are like James White clones in the straps.
Speaker 1: All right, we'll move were at a defense in a second,
Speaker 1: but Sean and Patty have been waiting patiently. Uh Sean,
Speaker 1: what's up? Thanks for waiting? No problem, Hey, alex Evan,
Speaker 1: I have a one question. If you come as trying
Speaker 1: and be quick. My first question for my actually my
Speaker 1: only question is do you think Taylor the on is done? Yes? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, so that that's won't work. Um. Now,
Speaker 1: the other thing Alex I want to say is I
Speaker 1: have a slightly different take on the Bengals stain on
Speaker 1: the Broncos approach to U to trades because I think
Speaker 1: when you bring in a guy like Sean Payton, you're
Speaker 1: you're thinking you want to fix the team. I don't
Speaker 1: think you're trying to rebuild. So I think they'd be
Speaker 1: a little more hesitant in an in trading judy because
Speaker 1: I think that the figure maybe they have a chance
Speaker 1: at doing something this season. So that's that's that. Now.
Speaker 1: In terms of the draft, I agree Clinton Johnson. If
Speaker 1: you know he's for four point zero or you know,
Speaker 1: Summer Loaf, uh for it's like, yeah, you're gonna I'd
Speaker 1: like them to move up to get them. If the
Speaker 1: Patriots addressed tackle and free free agency somehow, if they
Speaker 1: pick up a free agent, then um, you know, I
Speaker 1: get maybe that would be something that you know, if
Speaker 1: they can move up to ten to do that. And
Speaker 1: the other thing I wanted to mention is earlier in
Speaker 1: the MPU, the argument about the nineteen eighty nine draft
Speaker 1: really goes to what Paul was trying to make in
Speaker 1: his thing about tackles, because if you look at that draft,
Speaker 1: four of the top five picks were like not just
Speaker 1: Hall of famers, like legends, Aikman Sanders, Derek Thomas, Dean Sanders,
Speaker 1: like that was amazing. And then you know the only
Speaker 1: bus is Tony Mandridge. And if you look at the
Speaker 1: rest of the draft, there was no other tackles taken.
Speaker 1: So in that draft, Tony Mandridge stood above everything but
Speaker 1: else a tackle because in that year in college the
Speaker 1: tackle play was low, and I think that was a
Speaker 1: good proof of it. Where this season, you know, in
Speaker 1: the draft there's lots of tackles that that are up there,
Speaker 1: So I don't think this is going to be the
Speaker 1: kind of bus that we're going to see. Well, and
Speaker 1: you're never going to see a bus like Tony Mandridge again.
Speaker 1: But I think that that helps Patriots outlook if they
Speaker 1: want to draft a tackle. Yeah, thanks for the college
Speaker 1: ship shit it. So you mentioned Judy. Shot mentioned Judy.
Speaker 1: I mentioned this on PU quickly, but I tested you
Speaker 1: about this. I guess there's a report out there. I
Speaker 1: think it was from Benjamin Albright who covers the Broncos,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of a Bronchos insider. He had mentioned
Speaker 1: that Judy was available at the deadline last year and
Speaker 1: the asking price was a second round pick and a
Speaker 1: fifth round pick, and there were no takers, which is surprising, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because when you look at Judy's production and Drew Locke
Speaker 1: and Russell Wilson and these quarterbacks at a thousand yards
Speaker 1: last year, Yeah, a thousand yards with Russell Wilson not
Speaker 1: playing very well that version of Russell Wilson, right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: In terms of like, oh, Sean Payton's gonna want to
Speaker 1: keep his guys to win right away, we don't know
Speaker 1: what he's thinking. That could be it the flip side
Speaker 1: of it, could be they don't have a ton of
Speaker 1: money to work with. Yeah, Jerry Judy's contracts almost stopped.
Speaker 1: Does he flip Jerry Judy for a pick so he
Speaker 1: can get his own guy in that role that he
Speaker 1: knows he's going to have for the next four years? Right?
Speaker 1: The question is I guess at bottom line, Hey, why
Speaker 1: is that asking price too much for Jerry Judy for
Speaker 1: the league? Because if that was truly the asking price
Speaker 1: and he didn't move at the deadline, and that tells
Speaker 1: nobody ever really wants to make a deal to the deadline.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what it was. I think that's what it was.
Speaker 1: The other thing I would say, is she at that position.
Speaker 1: Sean Payton's offense loves the slot. Yeah, he's another guy
Speaker 1: offensive mine that loves the slot. That's why Michael Thomas
Speaker 1: put up the numbers that he used to put up
Speaker 1: when he was healthy. So does he view Jerry Judy,
Speaker 1: which he very well could, as like a healthier younger
Speaker 1: Michael Thomas, in which case he should eat in that
Speaker 1: offense right and have a huge numbers. Or to your point,
Speaker 1: does he want to recycle the asset where he trades
Speaker 1: Jerry Judy for forty six and one of the Patriots
Speaker 1: fourth round picks, and then at forty six he takes
Speaker 1: Kashawn Boutet, right, Harry takes you know, Josh Downs or
Speaker 1: whoever the guy is that he likes, and therefore they
Speaker 1: recycle the asset and they start over on the contract
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. The last thing about
Speaker 1: tackles when I keep coming back to with this conversation,
Speaker 1: because I don't know how much you heard of what
Speaker 1: Paul was talking about. He was basically just talking about
Speaker 1: how the hit rate at tackle and wide receiver. Everybody
Speaker 1: says tackles the safe position to take, but in reality,
Speaker 1: over the last five years or so, receivers have been
Speaker 1: just as good as tackles coming out of the draft.
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing for me is that I
Speaker 1: don't know if I would have any of these receivers
Speaker 1: besides maybe the exception of JSN as a first round receiver.
Speaker 1: And let's say last year's draft, right, Like, this draft
Speaker 1: to me, at receiver is great. On day two, it's great.
Speaker 1: I would say twenty five through seventy five, I think
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some really good receivers taken. But is
Speaker 1: it really one of those drafts where I don't think
Speaker 1: any of these guys are again with the exception to
Speaker 1: maybe JSN are Ceedee Lamb, Jerry Judy, like even like
Speaker 1: the Ohio State guys last year, A Lave Wilson, Jamison
Speaker 1: Williams from out like, I don't think that we're at
Speaker 1: that talent level. That's why there is nobody projected really
Speaker 1: to go inside the top ten, because there isn't a
Speaker 1: Jamar Chase in this draft. Right It's all like I
Speaker 1: say this all the time, it's all relative. Whereas with
Speaker 1: the tackles, I think that this is a really good
Speaker 1: tackle class in the first round. Yeah, so that I
Speaker 1: think that matters that That to me matters of every
Speaker 1: people that want to take I'll say this on this
Speaker 1: show too, people that want to take a receiver at fourteen,
Speaker 1: you got to start coming with me with names. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't just it's it's it's fake, right, it's you're
Speaker 1: making up make a creative player in Madden that doesn't exist. Right,
Speaker 1: So if you have that take, that's okay. It's not
Speaker 1: a bad take in terms of that. They need that asset, right,
Speaker 1: but you got you gotta put a name to the
Speaker 1: all right, Patty and aga on what's up? Patty Up? Guys,
Speaker 1: I got a name, okay, but it's not a first
Speaker 1: round guy. Maybe late day two, Day three? Guys. That
Speaker 1: intreagues me is that could possibly be at DeVante Parker
Speaker 1: replacement is at Perry? I know you guys saw him
Speaker 1: that eat swish shot we didn't bowl, correct, Yeah? Yes,
Speaker 1: what were your guys opinions of them? Do you think
Speaker 1: he could possibly replace Perker? And do you see him
Speaker 1: as like a day late day two or early day
Speaker 1: three guy, and that's all I got. Guys, will talk
Speaker 1: to you next week. Thanks Patty. So this draft we
Speaker 1: mentioned a lot, I think, but I know we've probably
Speaker 1: both written about this. This draft is not great with
Speaker 1: outside receivers in terms of depth, It's really great with
Speaker 1: slot receivers. Like, if you want to X excuse me,
Speaker 1: a Z or a slot receiver, this is the draft
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, if you want an X, it's kind
Speaker 1: of Quinton Johnson's the top tier, Cedric Tillman's kind of
Speaker 1: that next tier, and then At Perry, who Patty just mentioned,
Speaker 1: is probably that middle tier, right, Yeah, so we like
Speaker 1: Dat Perry for moments, I would say I wasn't super impressed. Honestly,
Speaker 1: didn't play great in the game either. If you want
Speaker 1: like a big receiver from the Shrine Bowl, I go
Speaker 1: with Justin Shorter, Bryce Ford Wheaton before I go with
Speaker 1: at Perry. So I think At Perry's got good acceleration.
Speaker 1: Michael Jefferson too. He's a deep threat, like I like
Speaker 1: a DeVante Parker style deep threat, right, So I think
Speaker 1: he can do that as sort of things I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't hate At Perry and if they really want
Speaker 1: that skill set, if they're dead set on adding an
Speaker 1: ex receiver. If I'm the Patriot's just from their track
Speaker 1: record with that position in the draft, I would much
Speaker 1: rather than take a chance on it with at Perry
Speaker 1: in the fourth round than using a first round pick
Speaker 1: on Quentin Johnson and striking out on a first round pick.
Speaker 1: But then at that point, just give me Justin Shorter
Speaker 1: in the sixth round. Who I thought it had a
Speaker 1: better Shrine Bowl who they actually worked with, And it
Speaker 1: is just At Perry's tall, but I wouldn't call him big. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was slender. If I'm getting a guy like they
Speaker 1: have Taekwon Thorton, right, if I'm getting a guy like that,
Speaker 1: give me guy. We both thought the first day of
Speaker 1: practice Justin Shorter was a tight end. Yeah, he's the
Speaker 1: way he was built. That's the If that's the way out,
Speaker 1: we're going, give me Justin Shorter. I do like at
Speaker 1: Perry's his acceleration, his vertical transitions right when he runs
Speaker 1: like a post route or post corn, he accelerates and
Speaker 1: he's pretty fluid for a guy his size. But he
Speaker 1: is a little bit more slender. He's not He's not
Speaker 1: one of those up like DK Metcalfe sized guys. He's
Speaker 1: he's a little bit skinnier than that. All right, let's
Speaker 1: move over into defense. I know we gotta go here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I combine D line and edge into one position if
Speaker 1: you want. I know you hate edge, so I I
Speaker 1: hate edge. I think it's we're talking about the Patriots.
Speaker 1: We know what position he's going to play. But go ahead, Okay,
Speaker 1: So D line edge, Who's who's your guy on the
Speaker 1: line of scrimmage player? So I like Eca from Baylor,
Speaker 1: Like he's really not getting talked about it at all.
Speaker 1: I watched I watched a ton of Big twelve football
Speaker 1: this year. I love the Big twelve and this you
Speaker 1: don't see defensive tackles take over in the Big twelve.
Speaker 1: This guy he's like six three, three thirty, but he's
Speaker 1: a pass rusher. Yeah, he's can get after it. That
Speaker 1: type of player the Vita Vea. Yeah, even I would
Speaker 1: say Danny Shelton to a degree that obviously that type
Speaker 1: of player's value has decreased in the end. And by
Speaker 1: the way, I undersold him six four three fifty seven,
Speaker 1: but like he can move around a little bit. So
Speaker 1: I think Danny Shelton is somebody that remember when they
Speaker 1: got him here, and at first they signed him, they
Speaker 1: thought he was a two gapping nose tackle, and they
Speaker 1: got him here and they're like, this is really like
Speaker 1: an up the field type of player, and the second
Speaker 1: year he was here they sort of figured that out.
Speaker 1: That's what this guy reminds me of a little bit.
Speaker 1: I think he's better. I just I'm excited he's you
Speaker 1: know how the it's the athletic, right that does like
Speaker 1: the most athletic, like the freak athletes thing. You don't
Speaker 1: see that many defense tackles. He's going to be on there.
Speaker 1: Bruce Felman, Yeah, he's gonna be on there something. I'm
Speaker 1: interested to see how he tests. All right, So my guy,
Speaker 1: I just watched this guy recently and I just was
Speaker 1: really impressive. Bji from LSU. Yeah, I know that edge
Speaker 1: rusher is probably not a high priority, but when you
Speaker 1: look at the longevity of that, those guys, the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty guys, Uch and Jennings are going to be free
Speaker 1: agents next offseason right there. Rookie deals are coming up.
Speaker 1: Judean is in your three of a four year deal
Speaker 1: and he's starting to push thirty, right, So you're starting
Speaker 1: to think about maybe transitioning there and are you gonna
Speaker 1: pay ucha? I think is something that's interesting because they're
Speaker 1: historically it feels like they're not the team that pays ucha.
Speaker 1: I think they might look at Uj's sack numbers and
Speaker 1: be like, well, a lot of them came late in
Speaker 1: the fourth quarter when we were up and he was
Speaker 1: just pinning his ear, that sort of thing where they
Speaker 1: can they kind of look at the stats a little bit.
Speaker 1: They kind of like what they did with J. C. Jackson.
Speaker 1: I love josh Uj, you know, I wrote about him
Speaker 1: a bunch last year. What I love about him is
Speaker 1: similar to what I love about BJ Ojilari, and that
Speaker 1: is they just have a toolbox of pass rush moves,
Speaker 1: Like this is not just one of a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: When we get into the draft with edge rushers, there's
Speaker 1: so many guys that are just one trick ponies at
Speaker 1: this stage, and they really haven't developed counters and different
Speaker 1: moves that they can go off of. Ojilari is not
Speaker 1: like that. This guy has speed, he's got a long arm,
Speaker 1: he's got ghost moves, he's got different, like all sorts
Speaker 1: of different moves in his toolbox. And when you already
Speaker 1: or that refine where you have not just a counter
Speaker 1: off your speed rush, but two or three counters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty advanced for a college pass rusher. He was
Speaker 1: also really good against some good competition. He almost he
Speaker 1: kind of took over that Alabama game for a little
Speaker 1: bit of that game. Mississippi State he had a huge
Speaker 1: game against them too. He's just one of those guys
Speaker 1: that's got a whole lot in his repertoire. I really
Speaker 1: like that. So I like Ojlari. Did you watch Alie Gay?
Speaker 1: There are other I really like. They're both good. Actually
Speaker 1: like Ali Gay a little bit better. I just think
Speaker 1: his first steps a little bit quicker. Yeah, So Ajolari
Speaker 1: is not He's like Uja in the sense that he's
Speaker 1: got all these pass rush moves in his box, but
Speaker 1: he's not. He doesn't have Uja's first step, right, He's
Speaker 1: not really a first step guy. He's got speed though,
Speaker 1: because what he I think it's like the second, third,
Speaker 1: fourth step for Ojolari. He's really got good stride, lane
Speaker 1: and everything like that, and he can really corner too.
Speaker 1: He's got great bend, so he doesn't necessarily have that
Speaker 1: great instant first step, but He's got that ability to
Speaker 1: build up that speed as he turns the corner. So
Speaker 1: you have him ahead of Gay a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just think that he's a little bit more advanced
Speaker 1: with how many pass rush moves he uses and things
Speaker 1: like that. So if they're looking for the next the next,
Speaker 1: Uja right to take over. If they're not gonna pay
Speaker 1: Uja and they're looking for the next guy and the
Speaker 1: board maybe doesn't follow their away. At some other positions,
Speaker 1: I could see Ojalare being one of their guys linebacker
Speaker 1: moving off the ball. Now we're how many years in Alexton? Yeah,
Speaker 1: speed at linebacker, speed at linebacker. Will they ever change?
Speaker 1: Will they ever change? I hope so this year. Although
Speaker 1: I'm not looking totally at the Mike, I haven't you know.
Speaker 1: I've been obsessed with this guy for two years. I
Speaker 1: thought he would have been a first end pick last
Speaker 1: year if he came out to marv and over shown
Speaker 1: from Texas. He's not getting talked about it at all.
Speaker 1: He was at the senior bow he got overlooked. He's
Speaker 1: going to crush the combine. He's a freak athlete. He
Speaker 1: can play mike, he can play on the edge, he
Speaker 1: can rush the pass because I think he's a weak
Speaker 1: side linebacker. I think he can. I think he can
Speaker 1: rush the casser, play, set the edge, and cover. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of his game, and like he's
Speaker 1: not that. He's not a mic linebacker, right, So in
Speaker 1: some way maybe that helps him justify it because he
Speaker 1: does things a little bit differently. So he's just so explosive.
Speaker 1: He pops you. If you're watching Texas, you're in their
Speaker 1: defenses on the field, in three or four plays, you're
Speaker 1: going to notice to Marv and overshowing any he's any
Speaker 1: four playspan. He's totally that prototype. Like he's like two thirty,
Speaker 1: two twenty five something like that. Yeah, he's this new
Speaker 1: age prototype that they have basically ignored. Let's let's face it.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing I'm thinking. He plays, and he's
Speaker 1: listed at six four, two thirty. I think he plays
Speaker 1: more physically than maybe some of these other guys we've
Speaker 1: talked about of them getting in that new prototype, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he does. He plays like he's two fifty. I don't
Speaker 1: I liked him a little bit. I remember you pointed
Speaker 1: him out to me a lot. The guy that I
Speaker 1: want to mention is somebody I think that's going super
Speaker 1: under the radar a little bit here, and that's Jack
Speaker 1: Campbell from Iowa. Yea, And I think after the combine
Speaker 1: he's not going to be under the radar anymore. I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna be right in the LB one conversation.
Speaker 1: So I met. I watched the Clemson kid, Trenton Simpson, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was pretty surprised that he was like the
Speaker 1: consensus linebacker one. To be honest with you, I don't
Speaker 1: think there's really a consensus Jack Campbell. I think is
Speaker 1: gonna be Jack Campbell and Noah Soul to me or
Speaker 1: both up there. So Jack Campbell, I think he can
Speaker 1: move a lot better than that. Maybe he gets credit
Speaker 1: for I think he gets typecasted a little bit as
Speaker 1: Iowa as that Iowa Mike, you know, linebacker, But he
Speaker 1: I think he's a better athlete than most people give
Speaker 1: him credit for. And he's really he's got that linebacker
Speaker 1: instinct right where he's basically in the running back's head
Speaker 1: and he's pasting it out and he's getting you know,
Speaker 1: kind of mirroring gap to gap to gap, and he's
Speaker 1: just got that hundred tackle type of mentality to Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that that's something that they might look
Speaker 1: at Juwan Bentley to correct me if I'm wrong. He's
Speaker 1: I think it's only one more year on that extension
Speaker 1: that they signed him to, right, so that mic position,
Speaker 1: and I think Campbell's a little bit more athletic, a
Speaker 1: little bit smaller, but still has some of those instinctual
Speaker 1: take on type of accums. Do you remember what happened
Speaker 1: last year? We were talking about how like it wasn't
Speaker 1: a great class for athletic linebackers, and every single linebacker
Speaker 1: tested significantly better than we expected. Leo Chanal, remember you're
Speaker 1: like Leo and then he ran a four to five.
Speaker 1: So I'm interested to see if this year's linebacker class
Speaker 1: can measure up. Yeah, this year's linebacker class is not great.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it. It's not a great It's
Speaker 1: not as good as it was. Like middle linebacker. I
Speaker 1: like the outside linebackers in this class. So cornerback. The
Speaker 1: quarterback that I rope down was Deontay Banks from Maryland too,
Speaker 1: is somebody we've talked so much about, like Christian Gonzales
Speaker 1: and w they're spooning Joey Porter and some of the
Speaker 1: first round guys, I think this guy's kind of quietly
Speaker 1: becoming other than the guy they think you're going to mention.
Speaker 1: Is one of my favorite day two corners watching him
Speaker 1: against Ohio State, And if you could play against Ohio State,
Speaker 1: then you can hang in the league like that. If
Speaker 1: you can match up against those receivers, then you're good.
Speaker 1: And he had some of the most physical jams at
Speaker 1: the line of scrimmage that you'll like. Guys weren't even
Speaker 1: able to get off the line of scrimmage. He would.
Speaker 1: It was almost like a gunner right on a punt
Speaker 1: and he's just holding them there and it was really impressive.
Speaker 1: But I also think he can change directions and mirror
Speaker 1: routes things like that. He's like six two, He's exactly
Speaker 1: what the Patriots need, like most six two two oh
Speaker 1: five corners. Long speed's going to be the question. Does
Speaker 1: he have enough long speed to hang in a high
Speaker 1: volume role on the outside of the NFL or is
Speaker 1: he just going to be a matchup guy where when
Speaker 1: you're facing a six or four, when you're facing T Higgins,
Speaker 1: you might have him guard T Higgins. But then next
Speaker 1: week when Tyree Kill and Jail and Waddle come to
Speaker 1: town now, he can't play right like, and that's what
Speaker 1: you have to avoid, I think. But I want to
Speaker 1: see what Deontay Banks runs in the forty, and I
Speaker 1: also want to see what your guy runs in the forty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Julius Brent's everybody knows I'm a huge fan of his.
Speaker 1: But every time I bring him up, oh he's sixty three,
Speaker 1: everybody goes on Juan Williams right right now. I want
Speaker 1: to see him run this forty already so we really
Speaker 1: know how fast he is. Either A, I can continue
Speaker 1: on the Julius Brent's hype train and say no, he's
Speaker 1: like big and fast, or B I can go find
Speaker 1: somebody else if he doesn't run a good right But
Speaker 1: I think he will looks fast to me on tape.
Speaker 1: That's the biggest thing with Juwan Williams is that I
Speaker 1: think that it's an important conversation to have and I
Speaker 1: plan on trying to hash this out a little bit
Speaker 1: further at some point, maybe on the show. And that
Speaker 1: is why did they miss on Juwan Williams? Like why so?
Speaker 1: Because if they were going to go with that mold
Speaker 1: again and they're trying going to try to get a
Speaker 1: six foot plus corner again. Yea, then they have to
Speaker 1: avoid another Juan Williams. Right. So I think the biggest
Speaker 1: thing with Juan Williams it was you, like a four
Speaker 1: six guy, four six four I have right here, four
Speaker 1: six four can't That's that was why they missed, right,
Speaker 1: he just doesn't have to place. SP's not fast enough
Speaker 1: to play in the NFL at corner at least. So
Speaker 1: if Julius Brents runs a four to five instead of
Speaker 1: a four to six four, then it's fine. All yeah,
Speaker 1: safety safety, I'm gonna go. So this guy's like super
Speaker 1: undertalked about. Honestly, Christopher Smith from Georgia. I say this
Speaker 1: all the time. There's not a ton of free safeties.
Speaker 1: Just take any Georgia coming out, that's fair. But no,
Speaker 1: I like him specifically because he's a true free safety, yeah,
Speaker 1: that you don't see a lot of coming out of college.
Speaker 1: I think his instincts are off the chart. I think
Speaker 1: he can probably play single high. You know, we'll see
Speaker 1: kind of where his speed and a Jilli's at. But
Speaker 1: everybody wants to get all hot and bothered about the
Speaker 1: Alabama safeties and then we skip right down to Trey
Speaker 1: Dean Right Chris Sir. Smith's kind of in the middle there.
Speaker 1: I think he can play. I want to see him
Speaker 1: get on the radar. So he was. He was a
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl guy too, by the way, he had a
Speaker 1: good Senior Bowl. Georgia has Christopher Smith and then Alabama's
Speaker 1: got two safeties as well. They both do, so my
Speaker 1: top four safeties are no. I meant Georgia had two
Speaker 1: safeties too, right was the other one ty Key Smith?
Speaker 1: So they both named Smith. Yeah's confusing. Ty Key Smith
Speaker 1: is such a Patriot because he plays deep box, slot
Speaker 1: and boundary like he's listed as a safety, but he
Speaker 1: he's a defensive back. He is a defensive back. He's
Speaker 1: supposed to go like day or late Day two, early
Speaker 1: day three. That's a guy could totally see the Patriots taking.
Speaker 1: But I don't know that he's a replacement for Devin mccordy.
Speaker 1: He's more hedging your bets. You can't resign Kyle Dugger.
Speaker 1: Christopher Smith to me can step in year one and
Speaker 1: maybe play that Devin mccordy role. I'm just really I'm
Speaker 1: surprised that that that bill hasn't tapped into the Georgia.
Speaker 1: I know it's sometimes it's impossible because as as you know,
Speaker 1: Jalen Carter's gonna go number two overall, and it's not
Speaker 1: like they're picking there. But I'm just I'm surprised that
Speaker 1: they haven't tapped into Georgia yet because I feel like
Speaker 1: every time I watched their defense, Kirby runs his defense
Speaker 1: so much like the Patriots defense, right, like it's the
Speaker 1: scheme is so so it's so it's just like drafting
Speaker 1: defenders from from Saban and the guy I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: with is from Saban and from Alabama, and that's Brian Branch,
Speaker 1: who I really think if Devin mccordy decides to retire,
Speaker 1: I really think Brian Banch could be the pick in
Speaker 1: the first round for the Patriots. This guy, so Branch
Speaker 1: played the star role for a Saban, which is the
Speaker 1: slot defender. He was in the slot. He's a nickel,
Speaker 1: all right, But I don't think that that's where he's
Speaker 1: gonna be in the NFL. The main he's they listen
Speaker 1: him at six feet like one ninety five. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think you're playing star nickel in the NFL had
Speaker 1: one ninety five, because that's that's truly strong side linebacker
Speaker 1: in today's league, right, because there's you. You don't you're
Speaker 1: playing nickel seventy five percent of the time, so you
Speaker 1: don't have three linebackers on the field a whole lot.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna have as a nickel, you need to
Speaker 1: be a take on player, like you need to be
Speaker 1: able to play the round. You need to be able
Speaker 1: to set the edge, and you need to be able
Speaker 1: to take on guys in the box at one ninety five.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're doing that. So I think Brian
Speaker 1: Branch is gonna play further away from the football in
Speaker 1: the NFL. I really look at him and see him
Speaker 1: as somebody that could play free safety, play center field,
Speaker 1: can play a little bit of Devin mccordy's role, where
Speaker 1: you know, mccordy moves around a little bit. I know
Speaker 1: everybody always thinks of him as a center fielder for
Speaker 1: the Patriots, but he moves around a little bit. His
Speaker 1: play speed is electric, his instincts are great, His clicking
Speaker 1: clothes on the football is excellent and dominant at times.
Speaker 1: His game against Kansas State was ridiculous. I mean, he
Speaker 1: just took over the game on the defense side of
Speaker 1: the ball for Alabama. I really like Brian Branch. He's
Speaker 1: one of my highest rated prospects in this draft for
Speaker 1: the guys that I watch. You know, Alex, you know this,
Speaker 1: But I take out the top of the guy draft guys, right,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't waste my time on Jalen Carter
Speaker 1: and Will Anderson, right, they're not going to be Patriots.
Speaker 1: So out of the guys that I have walk watched,
Speaker 1: Brian Branch has one of the highest grades out of
Speaker 1: all those guys. And again, I think he really his
Speaker 1: best NFL positions probably free safety, not not nickel. I
Speaker 1: just don't think he's big enough to play the nickel.
Speaker 1: That's fair, all right. So that wraps it up. Alex,
Speaker 1: you gotta get going. I gotta get going. Yep, you
Speaker 1: gotta get I'll be on Felgren as a four class football.
Speaker 1: If you're not sick of Alex yet, you should go
Speaker 1: listen to him on F and M with with with
Speaker 1: Joe Murray, Right, Jim, it's Jim Murray and Tim mcconaugh. Jim,
Speaker 1: I said, Joe, didn't, I you did? Yeah, f F
Speaker 1: and m Are are not are not there. So Alex
Speaker 1: is gonna lead the show. That's that's what I'm predicting.
Speaker 1: He's going to carry this show. So you go listen
Speaker 1: to Alex on F and M if you're not sick
Speaker 1: of him already. And like I said, we'll be back
Speaker 1: next week. I'll be an indie, so we'll do a
Speaker 1: combine show. Alex will drive the ship and I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what I've been seeing and hearing and what shoulders
Speaker 1: I brushed up against in Saint Almos and all sorts
Speaker 1: of things from the combine next week. So we'll see
Speaker 1: you guys then, And thanks so much for listening. Thank
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