1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from house 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello and'll welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: Holly Fry and I'm Tracy be Wilson. So h happy holidays, 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: whatever you celebrate. It's no secret that holiday celebrations often 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: involved drinking about a bit of spiked eggnog. I am 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: drinking some eggnog right now, but it is not spiked 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: because I'm at work. However, I did go get some 8 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: just ramp during this. I am jealous, but there's no 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: Also no big surprise in mentioning that when people drink, 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: they sometimes do really foolish things, and when they drink 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot, the foolishness can reach epic proportions. I'm sure 12 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: many of our listeners have some moments where like, man, 13 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: I acted like a jerk when I had too much 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: to drink. Many of us have been there. Uh so 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: west Point, it will seem like I'm jumping, but I'm not. 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: West Point, for any listeners who may not know what 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: it is, is is the United States Military Academy and 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: it is located in West Point, New York, which is 19 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,960 Speaker 1: why it is called west Point. And its roots go 20 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: right back to the founding of the United States, as 21 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: West Point was believed by George Washington to be the 22 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: key strategic spot on the North American continent in the 23 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: War for Independence, and so West Point began as a 24 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: military post, and then the Military Academy was established there 25 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: in eighteen o two by President Thomas Jefferson, and it's 26 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: the oldest continuously occupied military post in the United States, 27 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: which I did not know prior to researching this. Getting 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: into West Point is extremely difficult, and the Academy has 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: a long history of prestige and honor. When you know 30 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: someone or you hear about someone, like a friend of 31 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: the family who says, oh my gosh, I got into 32 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: west Point or my son got into west Point, everybody 33 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: tends to go wow. Uh, so it's a big deal. 34 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: But we today are talking about Christmas at West Point 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: in eighteen six in an event that was exactly that 36 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: was not exactly what you would call honorable, and it 37 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: would not make you go wow being impressed. It would 38 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: make you go wow, I can't believe that happened. Uh. 39 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: And that is the eggnog riot. I had never heard 40 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: of this until someone asked us to talk about it recently, 41 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: and I passed it your away because my Christmas episode 42 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: was already smoking for yeah, and I'm so glad you did. 43 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: I had heard the phrase, but I never knew what 44 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: it was about. So I got some good learning in 45 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: and it's a fairly entertaining story. So first, we're going 46 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: to start with just a little background about eggnog. It's 47 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: not clear exactly when eggnog was invented. It's likely predecessor 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: was this hot milky ale called poset that was popular 49 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: in medieval Britain. Monks had started adding eggs and figs 50 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: to their posset by the thirteenth century, but it wasn't 51 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: until the seventeen hundreds that eggnog really surged in popularity 52 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: and became tied to holiday celebrations. So it was being 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: consumed by people, uh, you know, for many century is 54 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: at that point. But part of the reason that it 55 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: was not this hugely um popular drink that everyone had 56 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: at the holidays was because ingredients like milk and eggs 57 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: and sherry had been luxury items up to that point. 58 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: But in the American colonies, many people had access to 59 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: cows and chickens thanks to the many farms in the colonies, 60 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: and there was available rum that was cheaper, and so 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: the average person could suddenly enjoy eggnog, and the colonies 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: loved it just like I do. I get excited about 63 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: egg nog every year. It's so yeah, I get excited 64 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: about egg nog flavored things the way that I get 65 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: excited about pumpkin flavored things. I am one of those 66 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,839 Speaker 1: pumpkin jerks. But I also really really love eggnog. Yeah, 67 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: Patrick hates it, which means it is all for me. 68 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: George Washington even made his own recipe for eggnog, which 69 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: included multiple alcoholic ingredients including brandy, rye whiskey, Jamaica rum, 70 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: and sherry. In short, this is a total booze bomb. Yeah, 71 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: you can actually find that recipe online. But there's a 72 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: trick to it, which is it the way he wrote it. 73 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: He didn't include how many eggs you were supposed to use, 74 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: so even at the time people that were using his 75 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: recipes were kind of guessing. Um. But basically, you would 76 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: be drunk as a skunk if if you drain it, 77 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: no matter how many eggs you included, because has a 78 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: lot of alcohol in them, and so as a beverage 79 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: enjoyed and endorsed by the founding fathers. Eggnog really became 80 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: a vital part of any holiday celebration in the United 81 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: States at that point. So let's detour back over to 82 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: West Point. The superintendent of West Point in eighteen six 83 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: was Colonel Sylvana's there. He actually served as superintendent from 84 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: eighteen seventeen to eighteen thirty three, and he's often called 85 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: the father of the military Academy. Was under his leadership 86 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: that the academic standards for the school were significantly upgraded 87 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: and codified. He also set rigorous criteria for military discipline 88 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: and conduct. Yes, so prior to his tenure as leader 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: of the school, it was not quite as uh, sort 90 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: of you know, standardized it. I read one historical account 91 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: that said, like, you know, it was really sort of 92 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: laughable to consider it an actual learning institution or military academy. 93 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: It just it was kind of a rough and rowdy 94 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: collection of sort of like we're gathering people together and 95 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: we're teaching them as well as we can. But Undersayer, 96 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: it really just became like a Swiss clock of you know, 97 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: good standards scheduling. He handled everything, like everyone that worked there, 98 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: he hired them, every student that it was admitted he 99 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: chose them, and he really really had these very very 100 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: high standards. And one of the major contributions that he 101 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: made to the school, in addition to pretty much setting 102 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 1: it up as an actual institution, and he really the 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: whole country kind of owes him a debt for this contribution, 104 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: was that he set up this curriculum with engineering at 105 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: its core. So for much of the nineteenth century, the 106 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: vast majority of engineers that were building the infrastructure of 107 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: the U. S. Transportation system came from West Point. So 108 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: if you were on a road, if you crossed a bridge, 109 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: if you travel by train, probably the people that designed 110 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: and built those things were West Point graduates. And that 111 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: is all thanks to Thayer's recognition that a fledgling country 112 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 1: really needed engineers if it was going to actually sustain 113 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: itself and develop long term Any biography or a description 114 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: of their notes that he had an intense focus on 115 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: standards and excellence. He made the school into a meritocracy 116 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: that was based on performance and throughout any benefits to 117 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: being from a privileged family. When his nephew was admitted 118 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: to the school, he made the voice sign a letter 119 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: of resignation that they are kept in his possession, so 120 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: the invent of a single infraction, the younger man would 121 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: immediately removed from the school. Yeah, he wanted there to 122 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: be no, uh, no way that anybody could point to 123 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: him or his nephew and say that like there had 124 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: been unfair partial treatment. He really was all about sort 125 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: of everybody comes in as an equal, everybody behaves as 126 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: an equal. I don't care if you're rich or poor. 127 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: I care about how smart and dedicated you are. She's 128 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: really kind of a very new way of thinking at 129 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: the time. We should probably point out that everyone here, 130 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: like the school was not integrated or anything, so everyone 131 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: was kind of I just don't want to make it 132 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: sound as though we are unaware of that aspect that 133 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: like everyone still had limits. Oh yes, of course. His 134 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: is mostly like in terms of class level. You know, 135 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: rich kids were not going to get treated any better 136 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: or have any better chances than children than boys that 137 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: had come from families that were less privileged. But we're 138 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: just as smart and willing to work. It's hard. So 139 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: that was his thing. Uh. And up to this point 140 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: in the U. S m A's brief history, it had 141 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: really become a tradition over the holidays for cadets to 142 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: unwind a bit. Life as a student at the academy 143 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: was rigorous. It was even grueling at times, and so 144 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: as a much needed break from all of that discipline, 145 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: homemade eggnog, which was of course spiked, had become the 146 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: drink of choice among the cadets to celebrate Christmas. Colonel 147 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: Fair was not okay with this. The superintendent is sometimes 148 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: described as leading with an almost monk like existence because 149 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: he was so dedicated to a life of honor and 150 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: living up to the standards he set for himself as 151 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: well as the cadets. So the idea of holiday drunkenness 152 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: did not mesh with his vision of how disciplined cadets 153 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: should behave, so he instituted a rule that no cadet 154 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: could purchase, store, or consume alcohol of any kind. Yeah, 155 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: that didn't go over so well. You can imagine how 156 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: well a rule like that would be received. Uh. Plenty 157 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: of the young men at West Point flouted the rule 158 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: on the down low. I think we're just like, that's fine, 159 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: he can say that all he wants. We're still going 160 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: to drink at Christmas. But a few cadets that were 161 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: really sort of bristling at the idea that he would 162 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: go so far as to make a regulation that would 163 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: bar spirits from a holiday celebration, made it their personal 164 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: mission to throw the biggest holiday party the school had 165 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: ever seen. And when we say biggest, what we really 166 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: mean is the most alcohol filled. And before we get 167 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: to sort of how that played out, do you want 168 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: to have a word from a sponsor. Let's do, and 169 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: now we will get back to the story of the 170 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: egg nog Riot. Several nights before the Christmas Eve party, 171 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: three different students together across the Hudson River to visit 172 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: Martin's Tavern, which was located on the East Bank, and 173 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: there were other taverns closer to the school, but they 174 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: were not going to be able to provide the amount 175 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: of liquor that the Cadets were planning to amass for 176 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: their revelry at a price that the students could also afford. 177 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: And so after having a few drinks at Martin's tavern, 178 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: the cadets took several gallons of whiskey that they had 179 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: procured and they headed back to the academy. When they 180 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: reached the dock at the Academy, after crossing back over 181 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: the river, they ran into a little obstacle which was 182 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: a guard, and the guard was an enlisted man who 183 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: was standing on the dock. This was kind of a 184 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: minor obstacle because the guard was willing to look the 185 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: other way for a thirty five cent ribe. And once 186 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: the cadets reached the barracks, they stowed their illicit alcohol 187 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: in their bunks with their more mundane personal effects. They 188 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: kind of carefully disguised it as just in a among 189 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: with everything else there. Knew that the cadets were likely 190 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: to try to smuggle in alcohol into the barracks because 191 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: it had happened before, and he was not a fool, 192 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: so he assigned Captain Ethan Alan Hitchcock and Lieutenant William A. 193 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: Thornton to the North Barracks to keep to keep an 194 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: eye on things on Christmas Eve and uh. Initially, the 195 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: evening was relatively quiet, so the two officers went to 196 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: bed around midnight thinking that nothing was going to happen. 197 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: But several hours later, Captain Hitchcock awoke to the sound 198 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: of several of the young men partying several floors up. 199 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: He went upstairs and he discovered a half dozen drunken cadets, 200 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: and initially he just thought he was breaking up a 201 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: minor situation, and he ordered all of the boys to 202 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: their rooms, but before he could leave, noises in the 203 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: next room tipped him off to additional inebriated cadets. When 204 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: Hitchcock entered the next room, two drunk cadets were trying 205 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: to hide under a blanket and a third was hiding 206 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: his face behind a hat. Doesn't this kind of crack 207 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: you up? Like I could so picture these drug people 208 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: thinking they are somehow imperceptible under a blanket. I feel 209 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: like this is a weird sitcom set at West Point 210 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: a long time ago. So Hitchcock confronted the hat hider 211 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: and tried to get him to reveal his identity, and 212 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: then things pretty quickly became heated. Yeah, they exchanged some 213 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: words and Hitchcock eventually left, but the cadets that remained 214 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: were really angry at having been confronted, and and his 215 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: heated exchange with the young man hiding behind the hat 216 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: just kind of ratcheted up everybody's I you're a little 217 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: bit like I think they just felt like they were 218 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: being hassled, and it appears that this is kind of 219 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: in the tone of the revelry took a turn, and 220 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: eventually someone is said to have shouted, get your dirks 221 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: and bayonets and pistols. If you have them before this 222 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: night is over, Hitchcock will be dead. That's what catalyzed 223 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: the riot. Yeah, a little drunken screeching about violence, uh so, 224 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: and the unruly party. Another one sprung up on one 225 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: of the lower floors, and Captain Hitchcock ran to break 226 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: it up, and on his way he actually encountered Jefferson Davis, 227 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: who was intoxicated in the hallway and the slash. Davis 228 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: accompanied Hitchcock into the room where this new phase of 229 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: the party was going on, shouting put away the grog boys. 230 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: Captain Hitchcock's coming, of course, he was standing right next 231 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: to him. Hitchcock sent Davis back to his room and 232 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: he acquiesced, which really saved his bacon. Later on, his 233 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: cooperation kept him from being court martialed. And when Hitchcock 234 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: attempted to break down a barricaded door in another room 235 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: that where a party was erupting, another cadet tried to 236 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: shoot him, and this shooting was only thwarted by another 237 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: young man that jostled him as his pistol went off, 238 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: and from the accounts I read, it was unclear whether 239 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: that second man that did the jostling did so on 240 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: purpose or was just kind of having a drunken stumbling 241 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: a moment a serendipitous prevention of murder. Yes. So meanwhile, 242 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: Lieutenant Thornton had also gotten up from his bed and 243 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: was trying to stop the various pockets of partying that 244 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: we're popping up all over the barracks. But he was 245 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: having even more trouble than Captain Hitchcock. At one point, 246 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: a cadet brandished a sword at him and another whacked 247 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: him with a piece of wood. Yeah, and these sound funny, 248 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: but I have to like step back for a moment 249 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: and think, like, Okay, these are young men that have 250 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: been trained rigorously physically there, you know, in the prime 251 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: of life in terms of their health, and they are 252 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: running around drunk, so they do not have full control 253 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: of their mental faculties brandishing weapons at these poor men. 254 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: Like it sounds kind of funny, but I can imagine 255 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: in the moment it was terrifying. Well, and I am 256 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: also reminded of a number of blog posts that have 257 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: been circulating around the internet rate lately of white people 258 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: rioting over stupid things, and I feel like this is 259 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: a historical example of a ridiculous riot over something stupid. Yeah, 260 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: we wanted some losing our ignong. So after Captain Hitchcock's 261 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: near miss with the drunken shooter, he called for backup, 262 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: and he called for the Commandant of Cadets. But some 263 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: of the drunken men misunderstood what he said and they 264 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: thought he was calling for their campus rivals, which were 265 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: artillerymen that were stationed at West Point, and this set 266 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: off a chain reaction of these inebriated young men arming 267 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: themselves to defend against the bombardiers that they were convinced 268 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: were coming. As they prepared for the coming enemy, they 269 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: also trashed the barracks. They broke dishes and windows and 270 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: tora part the furniture. They pulled banisters away from the 271 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: staircase cases. Hitchcock had never called for the artillerymen, so 272 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: they never came, but the violence and the barracks kept 273 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: escalating anyway. Finally, William Worth, who was the Commandant of Cadets, 274 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: came to Hitchcock's Hitchcock's call and was able to shut 275 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: it down. So even though at this point, you know, 276 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: things subside a bit, what's left is that roughly one 277 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: third of the cadets at West Point at the time, 278 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: so I've seen the number ninety out of to sixty 279 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: were involved in this booze fueled chaos where they basically 280 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: destroyed their own surroundings. Uh, some of the young men 281 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: were still drunk on Christmas morning, because remember this started 282 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: well after midnight, so it was actually technically Christmas already 283 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: when it began, and they looked a mess at this point, 284 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: you know, clothes disheveled, some of them torn, Their barracks 285 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: were complete shambles. And basically what it boiled down too, 286 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: is that a few gallons of whiskey had incited nearly 287 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: one young men to do a serious amount of damage 288 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: to their academy and their home away from home and 289 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: really sort of them the mental environment where they were 290 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: as well. I'm actually kind of just made to learn 291 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: by this episode, or maybe have reiterated that rioting over 292 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: ridiculous things it's not actually a new phenomenon, no, not 293 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: even a little. And I wonder how much of that 294 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: is sort of the expression of in this particular case, 295 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: you know, if they were kept to this incredibly high 296 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: standard and they were you know, forced to be rigger Slee, 297 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: devoted to their studies and devoted to being you know, 298 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: sort of on point at all times. If this is 299 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: just sort of like a build up of the normal 300 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: rambunctiousness that people have that's been kind of tamped down 301 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: for a while, and then you get some whiskey in 302 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: the mix and you can't hold that back anymore and 303 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: it goes berserk. Now, there's actually some really interesting sociological 304 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: uh and psychological research about what sparks riots that are 305 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: made for, um like combating oppression basically. Uh So when 306 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: it comes to ones that are just about drunkenness, I 307 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, it's I'm like, it might be uh 308 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: unfair is not the right word. I Mostly I'm like, guys, 309 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: there's no excuse for that behavior when when your reason 310 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: is that they told you you couldn't have alcohol in 311 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: your agnog Yeah, but there's that thing that happens right 312 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: when you're drunk and a small forms it quickly becomes 313 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: a large mob and then just there's not really much 314 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: logical thought going on. It's just kind of like violence 315 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,720 Speaker 1: and everyone like a rocket, like you just people just 316 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: get swept up in that that weird wave of intensity. 317 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 1: But before we talk about sort of what happened after 318 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: all of these young men lost their minds while they 319 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: were drunk. Do you want to have a word from 320 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: a sponsor chair, So now let's go back to talking 321 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: about West Point and the Christmas events that happened there 322 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. So to get back to what 323 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: happened after this ridiculous riot was over, Pearl there gathered 324 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: the Academy staff together to discuss the matter, and eventually 325 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: two orders were issued by Major General Alexander Makeum, who 326 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: was the Chief Engineer of the Army and Inspector of 327 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: the Academy. So, following the riot, Order number nine named 328 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: twenty two cadets who were placed on immediate restriction, and 329 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: Order number forty nine opened a Court of Inquiry into 330 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 1: the riot and the events surrounding it. The goal was 331 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: to identify the key players who led the riot. Yeah, 332 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: they were trying to be fair and understanding that, like, yes, 333 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: there were ninety young men involved, but surely there were 334 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: ringleaders and those are the ones we're going to go after. 335 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: And these inquiries took several weeks to investigate just what 336 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: had happened during the cadets Christmas festivities, and eventually nineteen 337 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: cadets and one soldier were courts martialed for their involvement 338 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: in the mob that caused all the problems. The trials 339 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: began a month after the Shenanigans on January eight seven. 340 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: Those nineteen cadets were William E. A. Squith, Benjamin G. Humphreys, 341 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: Walter B. Guillon, James W. M. Barrion, Fayette Norville, David M. Fairley, 342 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: George E. Bombard, James L. Thompson, Hugh W. Mercer, Benjamin F. Guard, 343 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: Thomas Swords Jr. Richard B. Screven, Bill Fitzgerald, John C. Stucker, T. M. Lewis, 344 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: William R. Burnley, Samuel Roberts, and Anthony Johnson, and William D. C. Murdoch. 345 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: And at this point, as they faced uh this tribunal 346 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: that had been assembled to try them, these cadets were 347 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: basically defending themselves to preserve their futures. If they were 348 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: not going to be able to effectively plead their cases, 349 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: their time at West Point would end really abruptly. And 350 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: at that point their future was to become military men. 351 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: So it really was the stakes were quite high, uh 352 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: for what was going to happen to them based on 353 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: this one night of really stupid behavior. And fellow cadets 354 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: with some now famous names came forward in support of 355 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: the cadets that were on trial while they testified, including 356 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: Robert Elie and as we mentioned before, Jefferson Davis. The 357 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: proceedings concluded on March eight of eight cadets, as with Mercer, Swords, 358 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: murdochs Screvin, Norville Thompson, and Guard were all allowed to 359 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: remain at West Point, although Norville, Murdoch and Guard eventually left, 360 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the young men were dismissed and were 361 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: no longer welcome at the academy. And just as a 362 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: side note about Jefferson Davis, so he there are many 363 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: incidents associated with drunkenness on record for him during his 364 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: time at West Point. He apparently really liked a party, 365 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: and as we mentioned earlier, he was not charged over 366 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: the Eggnog riot, though he got into plenty of other, 367 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: uh troublesome little exploits when he was inebriated the North 368 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: Barracks as they were during the Eggnog riot. No longer exist. 369 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: When the school built new barracks on campus in the 370 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: eighteen forties, the new structures were made with no interior 371 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: floor to floor access and short hallways as a form 372 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: of crowd control to prevent a similar scenario where reality 373 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: cadets could manage another riot. The barracks that were built 374 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: in eighteen forties are also long gone, and there's also 375 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,360 Speaker 1: no longer a holiday celebration at West Point. So while 376 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: the Eggnog riot had lasting ramifications in the eighteen hundreds, 377 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: it seems to have been largely forgotten as part of 378 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: the school's lore. I definitely had never heard of it before. Um, 379 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: and that was even after like a heavy search last 380 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: year for ideas of Christmas related topics to do. When 381 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: Smithsonian writer Natasha Guiling interviewed West Points Command historian Sherman 382 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: Fleak about the eighteen Christmas episode, she was told, quote, 383 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: hardly anyone knows about it. If pooled among four thousand, 384 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: four hundred cadets, three thousand federal employees, fift hundred military 385 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: staff and faculty, I doubt thirty people will know a 386 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: thing about it until now. Yeah, it's kind of um, 387 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: you know, it's an entertaining story. It's certainly one of 388 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: those things that you can't I can't help I'll admit 389 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of like sighing and being like you idiots. Yeah, 390 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, God, go your room, guys. That's how I 391 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: feel about it. Go to your room. I love it. Uh. Yes, 392 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: So that's the egg non riot, which did you know 393 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: significantly change the trajectory of the wives of the young 394 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: men that were dismissed from West Point as a consequence 395 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: of their behavior. Uh, but it is. It's one of 396 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: those things where even when I, uh, the few articles 397 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: that I found about it, they all kind of sum 398 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: it up is like, this is a good life lesson 399 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: to not get too drunk at a Christmas party, And 400 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, it's kind of bigger than that. But 401 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: I definitely feel like it belongs in the same blog 402 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 1: posts as like the pumpkin riot that just happened this year, 403 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: and the riots over various sports teams winning games are 404 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: losing games or not actually playing their games or whatever. 405 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: Like I feel like it's that caliber of foolishness. Yeah, 406 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: so that's the scoop. Do you have some listener mails? 407 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: I do have some listener mail. This is um, kind 408 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: of a counterpoint to previous listener mail that I read 409 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: about when I had referred to people who's so at 410 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: stitchers when I was talking about the Charles Worth episode. Uh, 411 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: and then I read an email about it in a 412 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: subsequent episode. So I have a couple of different ones 413 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: from two different stitchers. I'm gonna use it. Uh. The 414 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: first one is from our listener Rachel, and she says, 415 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: thanks so much for taking time to read and respond 416 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: a listener mail, You too are great. I just had 417 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: a comment to add about the discussion of the title 418 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 1: stitcher versus seamstress. I'm currently a costume maker at the 419 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: Minnesota Opera and have worked in the industry of couture 420 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: costume making for several years. While I worked for the 421 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: Santa Fe Opera, it was strongly stressed that we call 422 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,719 Speaker 1: ourselves stitchers on resumes and while describing what we do, 423 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: so that we remain gender non specific. So please do 424 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: continue to call us stitchers. Thank you. Uh. And then 425 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: our other one is from our listener Layton. She says, 426 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: I'm a longtime listener and fan of the podcast, and 427 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: while I've always felt moved to write in follow through 428 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: sometimes a problem for me when you did your episode 429 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: on a tall chief, though, I figured I'd better actually 430 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: do it because I work in the costume shop at 431 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,159 Speaker 1: the New York City Ballet. This email is coming a 432 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 1: month late because we've been so busy in the shop. 433 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: It is Nutcracker season, after all, and our sixtieth anniversary 434 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: of her of performing Balanchine's Nutcracker, and we were also 435 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 1: in the middle of building three other new ballets for 436 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 1: our winter and spring season. It was great to hear 437 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: about one of our past principal dancers and a brief 438 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: mention of the company I now work for. If you 439 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: want to do more, I highly support that. She suggests 440 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: doing one on Barbara Corinska, which might happen you never knew. 441 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: Layton goes on to say that what really moved me 442 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: to write in, however, was the recent listener mail in 443 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: your Henry Hudson podcast. As a professional stitcher, I can 444 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: assure you that the term seamstress is an antiquated one 445 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: and not really used in the business anymore, because, as 446 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: Holly said, it is an exclusionary term. Perhaps it's still 447 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: used in some parts of the world that still only 448 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: higher female sewers, but most shops these days do tend 449 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: to have a few malee stitchers are as at the 450 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: New York City Ballet included. The only time I used 451 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: the word seems dress is when I'm speaking to someone 452 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: outside of the business. Newspapers and magazines love the word 453 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: in an effort to better explain what I do for 454 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: a living. Strangely enough, stitcher is not as self explanatory 455 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: as you might think to most people I know, I 456 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,160 Speaker 1: work in a costume shop, but not a couture house, 457 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: but being based in New York City, the two fields 458 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: do tend to cross paths. We've had some of the 459 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: giants of the fashion world as guest designers, including Sarah Burton, 460 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: Carolina Herrera, and Tom Brown most recently, and many of 461 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: my colleagues freelance during New York Fashion Week. We all 462 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: refer to ourselves as stitchers, regardless of what type of 463 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: garment we're sewing or how we are sewing it. In 464 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: the New York City Ballet Shop, we are masters of 465 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: our trade. We are expert tailor's dressmakers, drapers, cutters, and stitchers, 466 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: making professional grade clothing that is then used as costumes. 467 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: To suggest my work is no better than something a 468 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: machine could do is an insult. And to suggest that 469 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: someone who works in a factory has less of an 470 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: ability to sew is also an insult. I myself was 471 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: first taught to sew by someone who used to work 472 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: in a girdle factory, and she does beautiful work. As 473 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: a side note, a person who sews on the left 474 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: patch pocket onto a pair of jeans in a Denom 475 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: factory is usually called a piece worker rather than a stitcher, 476 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: because they are paid per piece that they sew. The 477 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: bottom line is using the term stitcher is perfectly acceptable 478 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: and preferable by most people in our field. So you 479 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: keep using it, Holly okay uh. And to end on 480 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: a lighter note, I include some pictures for you of 481 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: things I've worked on at the New York City Valet. 482 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: Hollway smokes. The pictures are incredible and blew my mind. 483 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: I can look at two twos until the cows come home, 484 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 1: and then I'll show the pictures to the cows and 485 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: hope that they gasp over them. Absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous work. 486 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 1: Um the Alexander McQueen. Uh. It was Sarah Burton for 487 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: Alexander McQueen that designed it. There's a dress that she 488 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: included a photo of that just mind blowingly gorgeous. Uh. 489 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: So that that's the counterpoint to the one that said 490 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: we should not use the term stitcher. But uh, here's 491 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: my thing. I think whatever word you use, as long 492 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: as your intent is good, I'm good with it. Which 493 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: is not to say that we shouldn't pay attention to 494 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: what isn't is not the the accepted and preferred term. 495 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: But that's my thing. I do not mean to start 496 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: a fight amongst the sewers of the world. Just want 497 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: to do point counterpoint on that one and give both 498 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: sides of the the story. So whatever you do in 499 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 1: the sewing of your garments and whatever you prefer to 500 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: call yourself, it's cool by me to keep making pretty 501 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: things because we all need them. Uh. If you would 502 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: like to write to us and talk about what you 503 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: would like to be called, whether it be stitcher or 504 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: something else, you can do so at History Podcast at 505 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: house to Works dot com. We're also on Twitter at 506 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: missed in History, at facebook dot com, slash missed in 507 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: History and mist in History dot tumbler dot com, and 508 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: on pinterest dot com. Slash missed in History. You can 509 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: also buy shirts at our spreadshirt store, which is missed 510 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: in History dot spreadshirt dot com. And it is not 511 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: just shirts. You can get other goodies like messenger banks 512 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: and mugs and other fun accessories, iPhone cases. I think 513 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: they have other phone cases. And if you would like 514 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: to learn a little bit more about what we talked 515 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: about today, you can go to our parents site, which 516 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: is how stof Works and if you type in the 517 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: word egg Nog in the search bar, you will get 518 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: a number of different articles also including five classic Christmas 519 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: cocktails which also includes ignog. If he would like to 520 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: come and visit us at mist in history dot com, 521 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: we encourage you to do so. We have all of 522 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: the episodes there. There's show notes for all of the episodes. 523 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: It's Tracy and I joined almost two years ago and 524 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: we have just occasional blog posts. You get cool pictures 525 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: to go along with some of the episodes. It's a 526 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: fun place to hang out, so we encourage you to 527 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: visit missed in History dot com or our parents site, 528 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: how books dot com for more on this and thousands 529 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is that how stuff Works dot com