WEBVTT - How Constance Kopp Become New Jersey's First 'Plucky Girl Sheriff'

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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<v Speaker 1>with iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>I got a revolver to protect us, and I soon

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<v Speaker 2>had use for it, declared Constance Connie Copp when interviewed

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<v Speaker 2>about the intruders intimidating her family under the cover of

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<v Speaker 2>darkness at her home. Connie's assistance with the arrest of

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<v Speaker 2>an ex KHN making threats against her and her sisters

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<v Speaker 2>led to her role as the first female appointed Deputy

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<v Speaker 2>Sheriff of Bergen County, New Jersey. Let's talk about how

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<v Speaker 2>Connie got there at a time when women were not

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<v Speaker 2>so much welcomed into such work. Welcome to Criminalia and

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<v Speaker 2>to our first episode of a brand new season about blackmailers.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Maria Tremarki.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Holly Frye. On a summer morning in nineteen fourteen,

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<v Speaker 1>silk factory owner Henry Kaufman crashed his brand new car

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<v Speaker 1>into CoP's family buggy at the corner of Carroll Street

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<v Speaker 1>and Broadway in Patterson, New Jersey. The buggy was carrying

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<v Speaker 1>Connie and her two sisters, Norma and Florett. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some conflicting reports that suggest that it was just Connie

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<v Speaker 1>and Norma in their buggy that day, and not their

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<v Speaker 1>youngest sister. But truthfully, it really doesn't matter how many

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<v Speaker 1>sisters were in that vehicle. The women were not injured,

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<v Speaker 1>but their buggy was a wreck. The accident had broken

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<v Speaker 1>its shaft, and Kaufman, who was reportedly one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 1>at fault, refused to pay damages.

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<v Speaker 2>So Connie sued Kaufman in an effort to make him pay,

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<v Speaker 2>and was awarded by a civil court fifty dollars for

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<v Speaker 2>damages caused by the crash. However, Kaufman failed to pay her.

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<v Speaker 2>You can imagine her frustration. Fast forward not too far,

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<v Speaker 2>and Connie saw opportunity. One day, while walking in downtown Patterson,

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<v Speaker 2>she recognized Kaufman's automobile on Main Street and she ran

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<v Speaker 2>after itvoting for other pedestrians to help her stop the vehicle,

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<v Speaker 2>and indeed, she created such a spectacle that Kaufman was

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<v Speaker 2>forced to stop. Some reports suggest there were just too

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<v Speaker 2>many pedestrians surrounding him for him to continue. As luck

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<v Speaker 2>would have it for Connie, a patrolman nearby spoke with Kaufman.

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<v Speaker 2>He was forced to pay the fifty dollars court ordered

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<v Speaker 2>payment He did so and was allowed to drive away.

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<v Speaker 1>But things didn't end there. Connie's lawsuit plus the street

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<v Speaker 1>scene touched off a blackmail slash extortion campaign against her

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<v Speaker 1>and her sisters that included demands for money, threats of arson,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as threats to the sisters themselves. On November

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<v Speaker 1>twenty second, nineteen fourteen, the cop sisters received the first

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<v Speaker 1>of several anonymous threatening letters, each similar to the style

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<v Speaker 1>of what are known as black hand letters. So a

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<v Speaker 1>black hand letter was and is basically extortion through written correspondence.

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<v Speaker 1>Menacing letters would be sent to victims, threatening things like

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<v Speaker 1>arson or kidnapping, or perhaps even murder unless a specific

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<v Speaker 1>amount of money was paid. These letters were signed, but

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<v Speaker 1>not with a traditional signature. Black hand letters were most

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<v Speaker 1>commonly signed with an ink drawn human hand, which is

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<v Speaker 1>where their name black hand came from. Their practice began,

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<v Speaker 1>or was at least popularized, among Italian and Sicilian criminals

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<v Speaker 1>in New York City, and then it spread across the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. These letters were in heavy circulation in the

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<v Speaker 1>early twentieth century, and if you didn't give into the

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<v Speaker 1>demands of a black hand letter, you suffered the consequence.

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<v Speaker 2>The first letter Connie received stated quote, Madam, we demand

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<v Speaker 2>one thousand dollars or we will kill you. Give money

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<v Speaker 2>to a girl dressed in black at the corner of

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<v Speaker 2>Broadway and Carroll Street, Patterson, Saturday night. If you don't pay,

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<v Speaker 2>we will fire your house. We know your horse and wagon.

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<v Speaker 2>We live in Patterson. Sisters received this first one, and

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<v Speaker 2>those that followed were usually signed with things like friends

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<v Speaker 2>of h K or similar sorts, Unlike traditional black hand signatures.

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<v Speaker 2>How will Connie ever figure out whose initials those could

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<v Speaker 2>possibly have been? Well, let's just keep going. So.

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<v Speaker 1>In addition to receiving these demanding letters asking for ransom,

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<v Speaker 1>the Cop family also began to see prowlers on their property,

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<v Speaker 1>and those prowlers did things like discharge revolvers and shotguns

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<v Speaker 1>under their bedroom windows at night. This was at their

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<v Speaker 1>home on Wickoff Farm.

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<v Speaker 2>Things seemed to be escalating quickly, and Connie spoke with authorities.

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<v Speaker 2>Though some local deputies pretty much ignored her story. Bergen

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<v Speaker 2>County Sheriff Robert Heath, on the other hand, took her

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<v Speaker 2>concerns seriously, and he assigned a deputy to guard the

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<v Speaker 2>CoP's farm. Connie later spoke about his efforts stating quote,

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<v Speaker 2>we lived in constant terror, but Sheriff Heath came to

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<v Speaker 2>our distance and provided us with a guard at our home.

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<v Speaker 2>He even took the trouble to bring the deputy from

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<v Speaker 2>Hackensack every day. I don't know what we would have

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<v Speaker 2>done without his assistance.

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<v Speaker 1>We are going to take a break here for a

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<v Speaker 1>word from our sponsors, and when we're back, we'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>about what happened when Sheriff Heath gave Connie and her

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<v Speaker 1>sister's guns for their own protection.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. Let's talk about how about a

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<v Speaker 2>year or so after the crash, Connie sued Henry Kaufman

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<v Speaker 2>in criminal court and won.

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<v Speaker 1>Around the same time that Connie took her case to

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<v Speaker 1>the sheriff, she had another run in with Henry Kaufman.

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<v Speaker 1>This time Kaufman, who was inebriated, spotted her walking along

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<v Speaker 1>the street as he drove his car with some friends.

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<v Speaker 1>He pulled over and then proceeded to verbally berate her

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<v Speaker 1>until he was arrested by a patrolling officer who happened

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<v Speaker 1>to be nearby. He was fined five dollars for harassment.

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<v Speaker 2>Though Sheriff Heath was unable to stop the blackmail and

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<v Speaker 2>apprehend those behind it. This wasn't a quickly closed case.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a progressive minded sort who took a non

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<v Speaker 2>traditional route to keep the cop safe. In the meantime,

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<v Speaker 2>he armed the cop sisters each with a revolver and

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<v Speaker 2>trained them how to use it. As you may imagine,

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<v Speaker 2>the newspapers went into a frenzy when this became public.

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<v Speaker 2>This was unheard of, and they printed caricatures of the

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<v Speaker 2>women as three gun toting sisters snooping about in their

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<v Speaker 2>quote petticoats. One really long headline read quote, oh for

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<v Speaker 2>a chance to shoot at the nasty prowlers, the missus

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<v Speaker 2>cop maintaining siege at home, would just love to turn

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<v Speaker 2>guns on blackmailers. Among other headlines was quote silk manufacturer

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<v Speaker 2>fine for fracas with woman. The sisters, though, took this

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<v Speaker 2>very seriously, said Connie, quote, if we ever catch a

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<v Speaker 2>strange man sneaking around our house after dark, we will

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<v Speaker 2>use our revolvers.

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<v Speaker 1>So back to those letters. After receiving the first black

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<v Speaker 1>hand letter, Connie asked for Sheriff Heath's help in regard

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<v Speaker 1>to meeting with the girl in black on that Saturday night.

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<v Speaker 1>As requested in a letter, Connie waited at the corner

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<v Speaker 1>of Broadway and Carol, while Heath waited nearby to confront

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<v Speaker 1>anyone who approached her with a concealed revolver in her handbag.

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<v Speaker 1>Connie waited for an hour until about nine pm, but

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<v Speaker 1>no one showed. She returned home, and authorities never found

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<v Speaker 1>a girl in black asking for money. Despite that no show,

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<v Speaker 1>the threats and attacks against the sisters kept happening. Not

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<v Speaker 1>only did they continue to receive threats in the mail.

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<v Speaker 1>One night, Connie and Norma had to fight. They are

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<v Speaker 1>at men that they spotted in their back garden, and

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<v Speaker 1>those men shot back.

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<v Speaker 2>The black hand threats then began to target the youngest

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<v Speaker 2>Cops sister, sixteen year old Florette, specifically with threats to

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<v Speaker 2>kidnap her. The first abduction letter read, in part quote,

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<v Speaker 2>I heard a deep laid conspiracy to abduct floret This

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<v Speaker 2>can be settled, and you and I and the gang

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<v Speaker 2>are the only one to know it. Keep your head.

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<v Speaker 2>Don't go and publish anything in the newspapers where it

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<v Speaker 2>will spoil our plans. Again, Connie asked Sheriff Heath for help,

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<v Speaker 2>and the two began working together on the case. Connie

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<v Speaker 2>was instrumental in the work leading to the arrest of

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<v Speaker 2>ex convict George Johnson from Somerville, who was a co

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<v Speaker 2>conspirator with Kaufman in the threats against her family. It

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<v Speaker 2>was this assistant she provided that was what ultimately qualified

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<v Speaker 2>her for the role of deputy sheriff.

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<v Speaker 1>On June second, nineteen fifteen, nearly one year after the

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<v Speaker 1>car accident that started this whole conflict, Connie and Norma

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<v Speaker 1>Copp sued Henry Kaufman, this time in criminal court. Their

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<v Speaker 1>case alleged that he had written the black hand letters

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<v Speaker 1>demanding money and warning of violence and kidnapping against the

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<v Speaker 1>cop family. As a consequence, the suit also alleged that

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<v Speaker 1>he was responsible for sending armed men to their farm

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<v Speaker 1>to terrorize them at night. It had not just been

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<v Speaker 1>Connie and Sheriff Heath working on this case. County detectives

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<v Speaker 1>and federal authorities had also been brought in on the investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>As reported in the December third, nineteen sixteen edition of

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<v Speaker 1>The Record, a newspaper out of Hackensack, Kaufman was arrested

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<v Speaker 1>by a detective Francis Butler, in Newark on a federal

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<v Speaker 1>indictment that charge was improper use of the mails. At

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<v Speaker 1>the trial, Sheriff Heath testified about the threatening letters and

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<v Speaker 1>the men found on the property, fully corroborating the CoP's

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<v Speaker 1>sister's story.

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<v Speaker 2>Another important witness for the prosecution was a man named

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<v Speaker 2>William kim Kinsley, who was a handwriting expert from New

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<v Speaker 2>York City. He confirmed to the court that the person

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<v Speaker 2>who wrote those threatening letters to the Copp's sisters was

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<v Speaker 2>indeed Henry Kaufman. The handwriting matched. Kaufman denied all accusations

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<v Speaker 2>against him, but a jury found him guilty.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to take a break for a word from

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<v Speaker 1>our sponsors, and when we return, we will talk about

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<v Speaker 1>Connie's appointment to the role of deputy and how it

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<v Speaker 1>quickly ended.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. And now this is the part

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<v Speaker 2>of her story where Connie is appointed to sheriff's deputy.

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<v Speaker 1>Because of her excellent work in the case under the

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<v Speaker 1>order of Bergen County Sheriff Robert Heath. In nineteen fifteen,

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<v Speaker 1>Connie became the first female sheriff's deputy in Bergen king

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<v Speaker 1>New Jersey. That's right. In an effort to get out

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<v Speaker 1>from under a bunch of bullying blackmailers. She made history.

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<v Speaker 1>Although Connie was not the first female deputy sheriff appointed

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States, she did join a rather shortlist

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<v Speaker 1>of women in law enforcement. Included on that list would

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<v Speaker 1>have been Margaret Adams, who joined the Los Angeles County

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<v Speaker 1>Sheriff's Department as a deputy in nineteen twelve. She's largely

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<v Speaker 1>considered the first female appointed to the position in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. And there's also Emma Doherty, who is considered

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<v Speaker 1>the first appointed female sheriff in both Texas and the

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<v Speaker 1>United States. That didn't happen until after Connie's case, when

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<v Speaker 1>Coleman County commissioners empowered her in that role in nineteen eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>To put all that into some context in United States history,

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<v Speaker 2>for women during Connie, Margaret, and Emma's lifetimes, the landscape

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<v Speaker 2>was quite different than today. This was before women had

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<v Speaker 2>the right to vote. The Nineteenth Amendment wouldn't become law

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<v Speaker 2>until August of nineteen ten. Zip ahead a few decades

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<v Speaker 2>and you see that Connie, who could arrest criminals, was

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<v Speaker 2>not allowed to participate in other parts of the justice system.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, though the Civil Rights Act of nineteen fifty seven.

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<v Speaker 2>That's decades after her debt gave women the right to

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<v Speaker 2>serve on federal juries. It wasn't until the nineteen seventies

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<v Speaker 2>when all fifty states did so.

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<v Speaker 1>Connie often worked in partnership with Sheriff Heath, and all

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<v Speaker 1>accounts suggest she was good at the job. On December nineteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifteen, for instance, they found an escaped prisoner near

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<v Speaker 1>a subway entrance in Brooklyn. It was Connie who apprehended

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<v Speaker 1>and physically restrained the Reverend doctor Hermann Albert von Mettesias,

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<v Speaker 1>who was accused of horrific crimes by three boys in

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<v Speaker 1>his employment. Of that arrest, Connie stated, quote, I had

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<v Speaker 1>worked many days and nights on this case, and twice

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<v Speaker 1>doctor von Mettezias got away from us when we thought

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<v Speaker 1>we had him. So I was determined to hang on

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<v Speaker 1>to him, no matter how how rough he might be.

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<v Speaker 1>None of the men nearby offered to come to my assistance,

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<v Speaker 1>and I felt relieved when I heard the Sheriff's voice.

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<v Speaker 1>It seemed as though the doctor was about to strike

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<v Speaker 1>me when the sheriff grabbed his arm and forced him back.

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<v Speaker 2>In April of nineteen sixteen, while Connie and Sheriff Heath

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<v Speaker 2>were transporting a prisoner named Tony Poynotzka. The prisoner escaped

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<v Speaker 2>from the vehicle and jumped into the Hackensack River, attempting

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<v Speaker 2>to drown himself. Connie jumped into the freezing water after

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<v Speaker 2>him and pulled him back to shore safely as he

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<v Speaker 2>combatively struggled to keep himself underwater. She was treated for

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<v Speaker 2>hypothermia because of the river's cold temperature. Of note, as

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<v Speaker 2>she had commented about apprehending the reverend doctor von Mantesius,

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<v Speaker 2>here again, she was the only one who jumped in

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<v Speaker 2>of the event, she was quoted saying, Hoynatzko was my prisoner,

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<v Speaker 2>and if he had drowned or escaped, I would have

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<v Speaker 2>been held responsible. I simply did my duty.

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<v Speaker 1>Newspapers referred to Connie as the quote plucky girl sheriff.

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<v Speaker 1>According to a nineteen sixteen article published in The New

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<v Speaker 1>York Times, Connie received a quote gold plated badge and

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<v Speaker 1>a gold plated pair of handcuffs, which she carried quote

0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.079
<v Speaker 1>in her handbag. She did carry a revolver in her handbag,

0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 1>and she was given a badge in handcuffs, but that

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:24.640
<v Speaker 1>gold plated part. Today historians consider that to have been

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:29.560
<v Speaker 1>an embellishment of the press of her new job, Connie stated, quote,

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.160
<v Speaker 1>some women prefer to stay at home and take care

0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 1>of the house. Let them. There are plenty who like

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.840
<v Speaker 1>that kind of work enough to do it. A woman

0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 1>should have the right to do any sort of work

0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.560
<v Speaker 1>she wants to, provided she can do it.

0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Though she was good on the job as deputy sheriff,

0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.720
<v Speaker 2>on November fourteenth, nineteen sixteen, Connie lost her badge when

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.320
<v Speaker 2>a man named John Carter was sworn in as the

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>new sheriff, a man who claimed he quote couldn't find

0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.800
<v Speaker 2>anything for miss Copp to do. In reply, Connie stated

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 2>that under the newly adopted civil service law, employees who'd

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.240
<v Speaker 2>held their position for forty five days prior to the

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:10.240
<v Speaker 2>election of a new sheriff were legally protected. They were

0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 2>to be legally retained no matter who won or lost

0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.880
<v Speaker 2>the position of sheriff. She was correct, but despite that

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 2>and her solid work, she, as well as at least

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:25.960
<v Speaker 2>one other sheriff's deputy, a male deputy, spent months fighting

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 2>for their jobs, but their efforts failed.

0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 1>It is believed that Connie and Norma and perhaps Floret,

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 1>although history does not give us a lot of solid

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 1>information on that eventually operated their own detective agency years later,

0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 1>possibly in Hawthorne Heights, New Jersey.

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm dying to know what she called the cocktail mocktail

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.960
<v Speaker 2>for this particular episode in this season.

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 1>I think for the season, we're gonna call this segment

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:04.800
<v Speaker 1>coercion concoction. And today's drink in particular is called the

0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:10.720
<v Speaker 1>Petticoat Revolver, and it involves some of our favorite ingredients

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.760
<v Speaker 1>but also some we haven't used really before, and I

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 1>don't think we've ever combined them in quite this way.

0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.560
<v Speaker 1>So you are going to start with your shaking tin

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 1>with some ice and put in an eighth of a

0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.760
<v Speaker 1>teaspoon of black pepper. To that, you're going to add

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.440
<v Speaker 1>a quarter ounce of lemon juice, a half ounce of

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:34.560
<v Speaker 1>rost syrup, a half ounce of chili liqueur, and an

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 1>ounce of Rye whiskey, and you're gonna shake it like

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.760
<v Speaker 1>the Dickens. And I see the happy looking because Rye

0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:41.520
<v Speaker 1>has entered the.

0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Check every ingredient in this drink.

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:47.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, yes, I don't mess around with Rye that

0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.040
<v Speaker 1>much historically, but I'm getting into it. You're gonna shake

0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 1>that with ice. Listen, if you like a straight up

0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.400
<v Speaker 1>slapper of a drink. You can absolutely drink this as is.

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.760
<v Speaker 1>I topped it three ounces of ginger beer and that

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.679
<v Speaker 1>was delightful. And this is an interesting one because you

0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.359
<v Speaker 1>get this may just be my palette, but for me

0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:13.240
<v Speaker 1>each sip was like a different experience where it'd be like, oh,

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.360
<v Speaker 1>now I really taste that rose note. Oh no, now

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 1>that I've actually swallowed, I just have pepper on my tongue.

0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.000
<v Speaker 1>The thing is, if you don't want any pepper flex

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.040
<v Speaker 1>in your drink, or you want to minimize it, I

0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 1>would double strain it, So strain it with your hawthorn

0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.720
<v Speaker 1>strainer or your regular strainer on your cobbler shaker through

0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.920
<v Speaker 1>a mesh strainer to get all of the little bits.

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:35.760
<v Speaker 1>But if you like a little pepper in your drink,

0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.240
<v Speaker 1>I do leave it. And then there would be some

0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.920
<v Speaker 1>zips where I was like, oh hot, wait is there

0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:42.040
<v Speaker 1>a flower in there? Like I and then others where

0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 1>I was like, none of them are really the dominant

0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:47.639
<v Speaker 1>note in this sip. But it's pretty yummy. And it

0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.920
<v Speaker 1>is another one of those that is dangerous in that

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 1>it does not really telegraph to you how much alcohol

0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 1>is in it be careful, drink responsibly always. For the mocktail,

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 1>this one is pretty easy. In lieu of the chili liqueur,

0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.879
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna do any kind of like chili or hobernuro syrup.

0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>And then in lieu of the rye, here's what I

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.560
<v Speaker 1>would do. You're gonna make your black tea. But when

0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.840
<v Speaker 1>you pour your hot water over your tea bag or

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:20.240
<v Speaker 1>your tea in your little container however you like to

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 1>do it, already have the pepper in your mug or

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 1>whatever vessel you're using, because you want that hot water

0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.920
<v Speaker 1>to really open up the pepper and get that flavor

0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.880
<v Speaker 1>infused in your tea. And that way you skip adding

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.920
<v Speaker 1>the pepper later when you make your mocktail. But it's already,

0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:41.159
<v Speaker 1>it's way in there. It is gonna give you a

0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 1>stronger presence than if you just do the tea on

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.919
<v Speaker 1>its own and add the pepper. So that is my advice.

0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 1>That is the Petticoat Revolver, which is hopefully as fun

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.720
<v Speaker 1>for you as it is for me. I sure liked it.

0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:55.280
<v Speaker 1>I was actually surprised at how much I liked it,

0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.720
<v Speaker 1>because initially I was gonna just make it. The rye

0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.359
<v Speaker 1>and the rose syrup with pepper and maybe another note.

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.600
<v Speaker 1>And then I was like, I want to put a chili.

0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Liqueur s icy like Connie copp.

0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Connie's a spicy goalt. I really have to admire her.

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.800
<v Speaker 1>And it's one of those things where the fact that

0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:19.719
<v Speaker 1>people thought it was worth making fun of her and

0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.760
<v Speaker 1>her sisters and their petticoats with their weapons, it's like,

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:26.560
<v Speaker 1>does not take in the measure of who they clearly

0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:29.160
<v Speaker 1>were as people, because they were ready. They took it,

0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>as we said, seriously. It wasn't like they were like

0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 1>they clearly were instructed in how to use them by

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Officer Heath, and they clearly knew what to do. And

0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 1>Connie especially level headed in a moment that most of

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:46.480
<v Speaker 1>us would probably be terrified it.

0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.000
<v Speaker 2>She chased down a vehicle.

0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she would be like, don't add the ginger beer drinket,

0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 1>but I like the ginger beer a lot. So that

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.680
<v Speaker 1>is the petticoat Revolver and our first of our coercion concoctions.

0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.720
<v Speaker 1>We are so thankful that you're here with us in

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.400
<v Speaker 1>this new season. We hope you'll be back next week

0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:20.920
<v Speaker 1>for another story and another drink. Criminalia is a production

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.280
<v Speaker 1>of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.640
<v Speaker 1>from Shondaland Audio, please visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.679
<v Speaker 1>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.