Speaker 1: If you can understand people, you can make them laugh.
Speaker 1: If you understand what makes them tick, you'll understand what
Speaker 1: they enjoy. If you understand what they enjoy, you understand
Speaker 1: how to cure some of their ales, because you'll know
Speaker 1: where they're coming from. Welcome to the one you feed
Speaker 1: Throughout time, great thinkers have recognized the importance of the
Speaker 1: thoughts we have. Quotes like garbage in, garbage out, or
Speaker 1: you are what you think ring true. And yet for
Speaker 1: many of us, our thoughts don't strengthen or empower us.
Speaker 1: We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy, or fear. We
Speaker 1: see what we don't have instead of what we do.
Speaker 1: We think things that hold us back and dampen our spirit.
Speaker 1: But it's not just about thinking. Our actions matter. It
Speaker 1: takes conscious, consistent, and creative effort to make a life
Speaker 1: worth living. This podcast is about how other people keep
Speaker 1: themselves moving in the right direction, how they feed their
Speaker 1: good wolf. Thanks for joining us. Our guest on this
Speaker 1: episode is comedian Josh Johnson. In addition to stand up,
Speaker 1: he's an Emmy nominated writer and is currently a writer
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah and a former
Speaker 1: writer and performer on the Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon.
Speaker 1: Josh was named New York's Funniest at New York Comedy
Speaker 1: Festival in two thousand eighteen, and his story cat Fishing
Speaker 1: the KKK has amassed over eight million hits on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Hi Josh, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having
Speaker 1: me pleasure to have you on. Let's start, like we
Speaker 1: always do, with a parable. There's a grandfather who's talking
Speaker 1: with his grandson. He says, in life, there are two
Speaker 1: wolves inside of us that are always at battle. One
Speaker 1: is a good wolf, which represents things like kindness and
Speaker 1: bravery and love, and the other is a bad wolf,
Speaker 1: which represents things like greed and hatred and fear. And
Speaker 1: the grandson stops and he thinks about it for a second,
Speaker 1: and he looks up at his grandfather. He says, well, grandfather,
Speaker 1: which one wins? And the grandfather says that the one
Speaker 1: you feed. So I'd like to start off by asking
Speaker 1: you what that parable means to you in your life
Speaker 1: and in the work that you do. I think it's
Speaker 1: very important that even though the parable is like a
Speaker 1: beautiful analogy of the duality with people, that it's not
Speaker 1: so simple as the one that you're starving, so the
Speaker 1: one that you're not feeding doesn't necessarily go away. And
Speaker 1: it's very easy for us to look at an individual
Speaker 1: that's only feeding, you know, one wolf per se, and
Speaker 1: think that that's all there is to them, when really,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe the other wolf is starving, but it's
Speaker 1: not exactly dead or gone or anything. And I think
Speaker 1: that at any time people can switch over. Whether whether
Speaker 1: we think that's good or bad is in the eye
Speaker 1: of the beholder, I guess, But I do think that
Speaker 1: it's a reminder that there's a duality to being human,
Speaker 1: and there's also like a d qality to intention, you know,
Speaker 1: because sometimes you can be feeding one and not intending
Speaker 1: to really be starving the other. I like that a lot.
Speaker 1: That made me think, as you were saying that, of
Speaker 1: like looking at other people and almost believing that they're
Speaker 1: just bad versus realizing like, well, there's a good wolf
Speaker 1: in there, and your point of intention that most people
Speaker 1: who a lot of us might look at and well
Speaker 1: that's bad. That person's intentions still might be very good.
Speaker 1: It's just what's your perspective, what's your position? Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think that there's our line to draw on good
Speaker 1: and bad. I think that most decisions either make you
Speaker 1: happy or unhappy, and make other people happy or unhappy.
Speaker 1: And so I think that even in most of the
Speaker 1: things that we would consider bad or of of like
Speaker 1: a more negative quality, it's mainly because they lead to
Speaker 1: unhappiness and unhappy decisions. It is not necessarily because the
Speaker 1: thing in and of its essence is bad, if that
Speaker 1: makes sense, right, right. I'm just often struck by how
Speaker 1: underneath everything we're all trying to be happy, and that's
Speaker 1: what everybody's trying to do. It's that we differ on strategy,
Speaker 1: you know, we differ on what makes happiness for us
Speaker 1: or for other people, But underneath it, if you look
Speaker 1: at most people, again can debate good and bad, how
Speaker 1: fixed they are versus how relative they are, but underneath it,
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to be happy. And it's just that with
Speaker 1: a lot of people I look at and I go,
Speaker 1: that is a terrible strategy. Yeah, And I mean there's
Speaker 1: also something to be said for like that instant gravigation
Speaker 1: that we've all been conditioned to addiction to. You know,
Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of things short
Speaker 1: term to make you very happy or pleasurable and are fun.
Speaker 1: And then you know, upon further inspection, you look at
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, you look at the entire
Speaker 1: playbook laid out, and you see that this is actually
Speaker 1: a terrible idea, right exactly. Yeah, you're a comedian. So
Speaker 1: I think the place I'd like to start this conversation
Speaker 1: is really looking at how we use laughter as a
Speaker 1: coping mechanisms. What are the ways that we can use humor?
Speaker 1: You know, I often say that I think that levity
Speaker 1: should be listed is one of the virtues in life.
Speaker 1: That levity is a spiritual virtue. So let's talk about
Speaker 1: the role of humor as a coping mechanism. When you laugh,
Speaker 1: and especially when it's coming from a genuine place, um
Speaker 1: you feel no pain, you know, like like the the
Speaker 1: act of taking something in that either someone said or
Speaker 1: did or happen and and laughing at it and the
Speaker 1: general and genuine joy that you get from that thing
Speaker 1: is like so akin to like our nature and what's
Speaker 1: important about being human. And I think that it's something
Speaker 1: that is not just to like cope as a band aid.
Speaker 1: It's something that can change your outlook if you let it.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons that there are subjects that people
Speaker 1: think are too precious or too sacred to laugh about
Speaker 1: is because they want to keep the nearer of Austin Ay.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that would be the right way
Speaker 1: to word it, but they want to keep this this
Speaker 1: general veil and idea preserved about what the thing is,
Speaker 1: how important it is, and how you're supposed to look
Speaker 1: at it. And when you laugh at something, you strip
Speaker 1: it of its power to a certain degree. And I
Speaker 1: don't think that we as people should be in a
Speaker 1: place where ideas, institutions and people have power over us
Speaker 1: as individuals. And I think that by making fun of things,
Speaker 1: especially when it comes from a place, that brings it
Speaker 1: down to earth and makes it human, not just like
Speaker 1: poking fun to make fun and to be malicious. I
Speaker 1: think that the laughter and the joy and the camaraderie
Speaker 1: you feel with the other people laughing breathe a certain
Speaker 1: change in mindset that I think makes it easier to
Speaker 1: not just cope, but to move on from trauma. So
Speaker 1: do you think that laughter is not just a coping
Speaker 1: mechanism but actually a healing method. I think that there
Speaker 1: are certain ways that you can look at the world
Speaker 1: that are very uh, you know, pessimistic, sad or optimistic
Speaker 1: and uplifting, and those mindsets they almost program your responses
Speaker 1: before you have them. So I think that by having,
Speaker 1: like you said, like a layer of levity, that virtue
Speaker 1: of levity, I think that you're automatically bringing yourself into
Speaker 1: situations that are going to make it easier for you
Speaker 1: to get through because of your outlook and because of
Speaker 1: the way that you approach things. Most of what happens
Speaker 1: in the world is just stimulus. It's it's something that
Speaker 1: to a certain degree, sociopaths look at the world as like,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I would be happy about this
Speaker 1: or sad about this or whatever, and we see it
Speaker 1: as a very negative thing because we see sociopathic people
Speaker 1: as like having an extreme chance of doing bad because
Speaker 1: they don't have any emotions about what would happen in
Speaker 1: the outcome doesn't matter to them. But when you pay
Speaker 1: close attention to you know, like Zen literature, it almost
Speaker 1: comes from the act place, but not from a perspective
Speaker 1: of telling people what to do and you should just
Speaker 1: shouldn't care because what's happening is going to happen. It's
Speaker 1: more telling people the way to cope is that you're
Speaker 1: not trying to cope. You're not trying to cope with
Speaker 1: what happens, because everything that happens is life. You know,
Speaker 1: to cope would almost mean that I am supposed to
Speaker 1: be in a consistent, constant state of bliss and happiness,
Speaker 1: and anything that interrupts that is bad and should be avoided.
Speaker 1: And so I have to learn how to cope with
Speaker 1: the bad things to get me back to the good place,
Speaker 1: because that's where I'm supposed to be all the time.
Speaker 1: And truthfully, life is like an ocean and you're in
Speaker 1: a boat and you're going up and down and you're
Speaker 1: getting tossed around and everything. And if life was on
Speaker 1: land in that scenario and that analogy, and then you
Speaker 1: got tossed by ways, yes, that would be insane. That
Speaker 1: would be terrible, and you need to figure out a
Speaker 1: way to cope. But because your life is as tumultuous
Speaker 1: as it's going to be, because whether you believe in
Speaker 1: like you know, some sort of predetermined set of events,
Speaker 1: or if you just believe that like life is happening
Speaker 1: as it happens and it's all crazy, it's all like
Speaker 1: snapping by as it happens. You don't necessarily need to
Speaker 1: cope to get back to some sort of place. You
Speaker 1: need to learn to accept as everything is happening. And
Speaker 1: I think that levity lets us do that. You know,
Speaker 1: Levity brings you back to almost a center of like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is crazy, or this is good, or this is terrible,
Speaker 1: but also like this is just happening, you know. Like
Speaker 1: I had a joke I was doing for a little
Speaker 1: while before the lockdown started that was about how living
Speaker 1: in New York, you're around millions and millions of people
Speaker 1: all the time, every day, every time you go out,
Speaker 1: and every single day in New York is the best
Speaker 1: day of someone's life and the worst day of someone's life,
Speaker 1: and they're usually in the same room. Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 1: You made me twice in like forty seconds. Think of
Speaker 1: two separate songs by a band that I love called DAWs.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with them, but there's
Speaker 1: two songs. One of them, there's a line that I love.
Speaker 1: The line is just things happen, That's all they ever do,
Speaker 1: which is a great line because he's sort of talking
Speaker 1: about somebody who's getting all bet out of shape about
Speaker 1: everything and thinking, He's like, you know, things happen, That's
Speaker 1: just that's all they ever do. And then the other
Speaker 1: line is he goes through this list of really amazing
Speaker 1: and terrible things happening. He says, all these things are
Speaker 1: happening right this second, less than five miles away, which
Speaker 1: I think is an amazing sort of perspective. Now you
Speaker 1: let into all that by sort of correlating Zen and sociopaths.
Speaker 1: I've got to go back to that, partially because I'm
Speaker 1: a Zen student and I'm hoping to get permission here
Speaker 1: to call my Zen teacher a sociopath. But let's talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about that, because I think what
Speaker 1: you were saying was that a sociopath doesn't really see
Speaker 1: things as good or bad. It's just sort of neutral.
Speaker 1: And that's very much a Zen or a Buddhist idea,
Speaker 1: which is that things are good or bad because we
Speaker 1: side that they are, and that if we were to
Speaker 1: let go of that, if we were to let go
Speaker 1: of that grasping I like this, I don't like this,
Speaker 1: I like this, I don't like this. We let go
Speaker 1: of that grasping, we would suffer way less. I think
Speaker 1: that's what you were saying yeah, it was Yeah. I
Speaker 1: never made that connection between those two things. I think
Speaker 1: underlying Buddhism there is a heart of compassion, but that
Speaker 1: is a similar nature. And I think this is interesting
Speaker 1: because I often think about this. I think about how
Speaker 1: possible is the Buddhist view of the world for most
Speaker 1: of us, And by by that, I mean the idea.
Speaker 1: This is a vast oversimplification. But the vast oversimplification is
Speaker 1: if I could stop wanting, if I could stop saying
Speaker 1: I like this, I don't like this, I would be
Speaker 1: perfectly happy. The first time I heard it, I went,
Speaker 1: that's brilliant. Yes, And then I look at what it's
Speaker 1: like to actually be a human and I go, geez,
Speaker 1: that seems pretty deeply wired in, you know. And I
Speaker 1: then I start going down and I looking at like
Speaker 1: a single cell organism, and even a single cell organism
Speaker 1: at the most basic bedrock of life is going to
Speaker 1: go that's good. I'll move towards it. That's food, that's toxic.
Speaker 1: That's bad. I'll move away from it. So that this
Speaker 1: is good, I want more of it. This is bad,
Speaker 1: I don't want to also seems baked into the very
Speaker 1: nature of our existence, so I'm just kind of curious
Speaker 1: your thoughts on that. Yeah, I mean, it is part
Speaker 1: of our biology. It's it's why you know, we are
Speaker 1: attracted to attractive people outside of whatever social and cultural
Speaker 1: norms you've created. There's a deep, deep sense for us
Speaker 1: to procreate with like a healthy mate. And to us,
Speaker 1: what is beauty is healthy and so we look for,
Speaker 1: you know, those healthy mates, and so we want and
Speaker 1: we lust after them because somewhere in culture and society,
Speaker 1: our wires got cross to where we don't necessarily do
Speaker 1: things for their instinctive purpose and we just do them
Speaker 1: for pleasure. So that does create like a sense of lust,
Speaker 1: a sense of wanting to like get a person or
Speaker 1: conquer them or get at them. And I think that
Speaker 1: to your example, if we were to get rid of
Speaker 1: that want, yes, we would cure the sort of like lust,
Speaker 1: unrequited love, all of these things that make us unhappy,
Speaker 1: But we wouldn't necessarily get rid of the deepest, deepest
Speaker 1: want that is to be human, because it's from a
Speaker 1: biological standpoint, and I don't think that it is our job.
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily like a Zen student, but I've read
Speaker 1: a lot about it. I respected a lot, and I
Speaker 1: do think that it's one of the best ways that
Speaker 1: you can live your life if you're trying to be
Speaker 1: less harmful and to be harmed less. I think that
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily our job to destroy all the parts
Speaker 1: of ourselves that we deem unhappy or bad. Just like
Speaker 1: the two wolves never die, I think that there's something good,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of good comes out of
Speaker 1: those less than perfect qualities that humans have, whether it's
Speaker 1: biological or it's like a personality thing. And so I
Speaker 1: don't think that even if we did get rid of
Speaker 1: the need for want, let's say we didn't live in
Speaker 1: a capitalist society, and let's say we didn't need a
Speaker 1: hierarchy the way that even the monkeys do, I think
Speaker 1: that we would still have something that we needed that,
Speaker 1: even if it does create suffering, also created want, and
Speaker 1: that is what would keep us going. You know. I
Speaker 1: think that to a certain degree, if you completely destroy
Speaker 1: all of want and you destroy the ego, then yes,
Speaker 1: you are not suffering as much. But I don't know
Speaker 1: if that would make you happy by default. I do
Speaker 1: think that it would make you super content, and I
Speaker 1: think that that's dope. Like whenever you run into like
Speaker 1: a truly content person. It's one of the most enviable
Speaker 1: positions to be in, you know, because you're like, Wow,
Speaker 1: wherever it is, you are, no matter what I think
Speaker 1: about it, no matter what everyone says about it, you're
Speaker 1: genuinely happy. And that's actually attained by a few where
Speaker 1: people than attain wealth. I would tend to agree it
Speaker 1: is interesting because, yeah, if you totally deprogrammed the seeking
Speaker 1: behavior out of a species, that species would die off.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just wouldn't survive. Some of what's built
Speaker 1: into us to survive is what drives us, and I
Speaker 1: find it interesting. There's a Buddhist teacher who wants said,
Speaker 1: our survival instinct is great for survival, it's just not
Speaker 1: real good for making us happy. It's wired these things
Speaker 1: into us. A certain amount of dissatisfaction makes you want
Speaker 1: to procreate, makes you want to eat. So I always
Speaker 1: find it interesting trying to balance this um deep spiritual
Speaker 1: aspiration of hitting this point of no preferences with what's
Speaker 1: actually likely attainable. Otherwise, if we're not careful, we end
Speaker 1: up just always measuring ourselves against some spiritual ideal that
Speaker 1: we can't hit. That's just another way of feeling bad
Speaker 1: about ourselves. Yeah, you've just described most people's experience as
Speaker 1: with cathalism, you know. And I mean also, I think
Speaker 1: that for everything that Zen does, what I really appreciate
Speaker 1: about it is that it's not necessarily preaching what should be.
Speaker 1: It just sort of lays out what is. And I
Speaker 1: think that by doing that, it's done itself as a movement, religion, philosophy,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, has done itself a
Speaker 1: great favor in not actually being hypocritical, because most of
Speaker 1: the things that it mentions cause suffering also cause people
Speaker 1: to learn Zen. Like a desire to change and desire
Speaker 1: to understand is why someone would come to the class
Speaker 1: in the first place. So sure, if they already had it,
Speaker 1: maybe they wouldn't need it, and maybe they wouldn't show up,
Speaker 1: But if they didn't partake in it, who would be
Speaker 1: able to like both spread the message and and also
Speaker 1: enjoy the message? You know? Because I think that there
Speaker 1: are a lot of my friends that are very very
Speaker 1: happy um practitioners of Zen that are, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: like living that enviable life because they are like, look,
Speaker 1: I have a couple of things I do that I
Speaker 1: need to do to survive. So maybe I don't love
Speaker 1: my job every second of it, but you know what,
Speaker 1: I go to work and work provides me with this
Speaker 1: thing which does make me happy. So I think it's
Speaker 1: a zero sum total of necessity and need and I'm
Speaker 1: having a great time with it. And someone that has
Speaker 1: that outlook is like, wow, that's amazing because so many people,
Speaker 1: especially growing up like in America, so many people are
Speaker 1: trying to climb. Even people who are already on the
Speaker 1: upper echelonge society are like trying to like climb or
Speaker 1: beat something. Even if they grew up a billionaire, they're
Speaker 1: trying to beat their dad's company. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: so much desire, so much wants, so much seeking, and
Speaker 1: I think that the seeking that brought some of my
Speaker 1: friends to where they are actually ended up paying off.
Speaker 1: You know. So let's talk a little bit about you
Speaker 1: and what comedy has done for you in your life.
Speaker 1: In a weird way, it makes it sound like an
Speaker 1: institution or like a mentor or something, but truthfully, it's
Speaker 1: like changed everything. Like through comedy, I've been able to travel,
Speaker 1: I've been able to meet incredible people. It's it's it's
Speaker 1: how I've met some of my best friends. It's helped
Speaker 1: making me want to be a better person and like
Speaker 1: bring more of that compassion and levity to other people.
Speaker 1: And it's also made me study from a genuine place,
Speaker 1: both myself and other people, because if you can understand people,
Speaker 1: you can make them laugh. You know, if you understand
Speaker 1: what makes them tick, you'll understand what they enjoy. If
Speaker 1: you understand what they enjoy, you understand how to like
Speaker 1: cure some of their ales because you'll know where they're
Speaker 1: coming from. And then the more that you understand yourself,
Speaker 1: the more that you understand your reactions to things. And
Speaker 1: I think it's made me the type of person that
Speaker 1: like looks at all sides of a thing, because I
Speaker 1: think that a lot of jokes in the world are
Speaker 1: unfinished because they were just very one sided. And I
Speaker 1: think that for everything that you can make a joke about,
Speaker 1: there's like an opposite joke that changes the angle, and
Speaker 1: there's like a diamonds worth of angles to every joke.
Speaker 1: And I think that to really start displaying a type
Speaker 1: of mastery and comedy, you have to not necessarily have
Speaker 1: that perspective, but you have to be willing to completely
Speaker 1: change your approach and adapt it because you look at
Speaker 1: comedy from the forties and it's like the little bit
Speaker 1: that people do get is like slapstick, but there was
Speaker 1: like really funny social commentary being made at the time.
Speaker 1: But our society has changed enough where all that stuff
Speaker 1: is commonplace, you know, And I think that there's a
Speaker 1: lot to still grow and learn about each other through comedy,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to be a part of that. In
Speaker 1: watching some of your comedy, and I think this is
Speaker 1: true of a good number of comedians, but certainly not
Speaker 1: all of them. You seem to zero right in on
Speaker 1: your own This might be a stronger word than it
Speaker 1: needs to be, but your own wounds, your own places
Speaker 1: of vulnerability, your own places of fear. You know. Talk
Speaker 1: to me about how that works for you and whether
Speaker 1: that's a healing process for you. I think that for
Speaker 1: the comedians specifically, it can be a bit difficult because
Speaker 1: for myself, as Josh, as a comic, I have to
Speaker 1: already be close to over something to share it with
Speaker 1: other people and put it out on stage and make
Speaker 1: jokes about it. So for me, the writing of it
Speaker 1: helps in the healing process. The actual performing of it
Speaker 1: is I guess therapeutic because I get to make a
Speaker 1: connection with someone who is laughing, which means they're agreeing
Speaker 1: and understanding where I'm coming from. But I also think
Speaker 1: that I make it about myself because there's a curious
Speaker 1: stage that's been created due to the current climate. So
Speaker 1: like coming from a place now where it's very easy
Speaker 1: to offend people, it's very easy being misunderstood. It's very
Speaker 1: very easy for people to almost willingly misunderstand you and
Speaker 1: attack you. And I think that I separate myself and
Speaker 1: avoid of that by making it about me. You can't
Speaker 1: get offended at my life. You can't get offended at
Speaker 1: my understanding of things or what it used to be,
Speaker 1: because I'm laying it all out for you. So if
Speaker 1: you want to get offended at it, that's fine. You
Speaker 1: have a beef with a person that no longer exists.
Speaker 1: And I think by me sharing the things that I'm
Speaker 1: going through or thinking about my fears and my my
Speaker 1: hardships and anger and the way those manifest to make jokes,
Speaker 1: it then lets people connect with me with an open hand. Basically,
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to do by making the jokes about
Speaker 1: myself and my experiences is make it okay for the
Speaker 1: people who have been through the same thing to laugh
Speaker 1: and understand that someone either got through it or is
Speaker 1: going through what they went through, or sees the thing
Speaker 1: the way they see it. But it also doesn't push
Speaker 1: away or alienate the people who haven't been through what
Speaker 1: I've been through. So by just talking about my self,
Speaker 1: it's an open door to the experience, whether you're going
Speaker 1: through it or not, and then my reaction to it.
Speaker 1: So I still have a lot of time left in
Speaker 1: my career to talk about real trauma, real problems and
Speaker 1: try to make them funny. For the most part, in
Speaker 1: the beginning catalog of my work, I stay mainly very
Speaker 1: silly and like would talk about things I was just
Speaker 1: super super over because it happened in high school, college,
Speaker 1: when I moved to Chicago, little things living in New York,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And as I'm mature, I've been veering
Speaker 1: into more um I wouldn't say dicey territory, but just
Speaker 1: like more strange and controversial topics, you know. And I
Speaker 1: don't do that to be inflammatory or to get a
Speaker 1: rise out of people. I do it because as a person,
Speaker 1: I am just now coming in contact with a way
Speaker 1: to articulate these things that people will understand where I'm
Speaker 1: coming from, and not just saying it to say it.
Speaker 1: Do you think that the things that you are willing
Speaker 1: to write about and then perform you said you kind
Speaker 1: of have to be in a place where you're sort
Speaker 1: of over them. Do you think that it's often the
Speaker 1: writing of it and the joking about it that gets
Speaker 1: you over it, or do you have to get over
Speaker 1: it first to get to a point where you can
Speaker 1: do that, or a little of both. I do think
Speaker 1: it's different for every person. I know some people who
Speaker 1: genuinely exercise all their David's on stage, and it can
Speaker 1: be beautiful and it can also be a train wreck,
Speaker 1: depending on their level of experience and their level of
Speaker 1: like mastery with communicating ideas. I know that for me,
Speaker 1: there is very little that I'm not willing to try
Speaker 1: to figure out in front of an audience because I
Speaker 1: would rather kick myself and be disappointed and how the
Speaker 1: performance went later because I tried, rather than still being
Speaker 1: nervous to try it again, like I had experience in Chicago,
Speaker 1: but like it's so silly now, but like in my
Speaker 1: twenty two year old mind at the time, it was
Speaker 1: like life changing. But basically I was in this comedy
Speaker 1: competition very like low level, like dude, this is like
Speaker 1: a bar show. This is like there's not a big
Speaker 1: deal at all. But I was told by the organizer
Speaker 1: and and maybe even another person that was supposed to
Speaker 1: be clean, right, you had to be completely clean, And
Speaker 1: then like the first person went up and they weren't
Speaker 1: clean at all. They were like actually super dirty, and
Speaker 1: then the second person was, and the third person was,
Speaker 1: and then the host kind of tried to remind them,
Speaker 1: but then like as the night went on, even the
Speaker 1: host started like getting dirty because it was just too
Speaker 1: hard to get people's attention and get laughs in the
Speaker 1: room outside of like doing that thing. And then I
Speaker 1: went up and I did my set and I stayed clean,
Speaker 1: and like I had a couple of jokes that I
Speaker 1: wanted to do that weren't necessarily dirty, but they weren't
Speaker 1: in that like family friendly whatever, cookie cutter clean thing,
Speaker 1: which I don't know why we were doing because there
Speaker 1: were no kids and it wasn't like a Christian of it.
Speaker 1: It was at a bar, so I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't even know why. And then after the competition I
Speaker 1: had to leave to do another show, and so apparently
Speaker 1: I want, but I didn't get to win because I
Speaker 1: wasn't there to like accept it, and they thought that
Speaker 1: was embarrassing, so they just gave it to second place
Speaker 1: or whatever. And then later on I saw a comic
Speaker 1: who also did the show that was like, I know
Speaker 1: that you could have done better, Like, even though you want,
Speaker 1: I know you could have done better, and you held
Speaker 1: yourself back. And even though you did well, I know
Speaker 1: you could have done better and you wanted to do
Speaker 1: better because I could see it on your face while
Speaker 1: you're on stage. And ever since then, I've been of
Speaker 1: a mind that it's better that I just go ahead
Speaker 1: and try and maybe fail than to not try and
Speaker 1: be like, well, I'll do the joke next time I'm
Speaker 1: on stage, or let me write, let me add some
Speaker 1: more thought to the writing, whatever. I think it's okay
Speaker 1: to just like trip up, you know, yeah, just be
Speaker 1: willing to go for it and fail versus not try.
Speaker 1: It makes me think of at a certain point in life,
Speaker 1: I hit this place where I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I think the pain of being rejected would be less
Speaker 1: than the pain of continuing to be a chicken when
Speaker 1: it came to like asking girls. Yeah, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, all right, I'm gonna swap the pain
Speaker 1: out here. I might get rejected, but I just can't
Speaker 1: live with not trying anymore. Yeah. And also there's definitely
Speaker 1: something to be said for as much rejection as you
Speaker 1: fear you're gonna get, in real life, you're gonna get
Speaker 1: like maybe a tenth of that. And that's with all
Speaker 1: the trying in the world. Like when I when I
Speaker 1: go up like I I've started, because comedians talk about bombing,
Speaker 1: like when you truly like fail on stage in front
Speaker 1: of everyone, so you either get no laughs or you
Speaker 1: get booed, or you like turn the audience against you whatever.
Speaker 1: And I've found that for me, the bomb has started
Speaker 1: to just be not creating the vibe that I wanted
Speaker 1: to create or not like. So, so you'll always have
Speaker 1: some sort of critique of yourself, and even as you
Speaker 1: get better at things, that critique actually just rises. It's
Speaker 1: it's one of the things that you know, zen actually
Speaker 1: helps people start to move away from and eliminate because
Speaker 1: you're always going to have your demons chasing you if
Speaker 1: you never address them. So one of my demons definitely
Speaker 1: is wanting to put on like perfect performances all the time.
Speaker 1: And I found that I actually rarely fail as much
Speaker 1: as I think I'm going to, and I get rewarded
Speaker 1: for taking chances. Because then a joke that in my
Speaker 1: heart I felt I was ready, but maybe I wasn't
Speaker 1: ready to do. When I actually tried it and it
Speaker 1: got all the laughs, I'm like, wow, Okay, not only
Speaker 1: did they accept it, but they liked it. And that's
Speaker 1: coming from me putting myself out there. Because we're all
Speaker 1: adults now. You know, if you're if you're at a
Speaker 1: comedy club and people paid to see you, no one
Speaker 1: is paying to be nice to you, you know, like
Speaker 1: they came to see a good show. So if you
Speaker 1: give them that good show, they're going to be appreciative
Speaker 1: and they're going to like let you know that they
Speaker 1: are coming from the same place as you, you know.
Speaker 1: And so fear of rejection definitely stopped me from doing
Speaker 1: a lot of things and halted me before. And I
Speaker 1: think that as I get older, you start to care less,
Speaker 1: you know, you you become like those old guys at
Speaker 1: the gym who I don't even wear a towel anymore.
Speaker 1: They're just like, yeah, yeah, I'm here, look at it.
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do? Yep, yep, I'm not old,
Speaker 1: but I'm getting in that neighborhood I can certainly speak
Speaker 1: to like, yeah, it's like wow, all right. I never
Speaker 1: would have dreamt to do in that when I was
Speaker 1: twenty five, But at forty forty eight, who cares? I
Speaker 1: suddenly am more able to look at certain old men
Speaker 1: and be like, I can see how he ended up
Speaker 1: near that outfit. You know, ten years ago I'd be like, well,
Speaker 1: what would cause you to possibly look like that? And
Speaker 1: now I'm like, well, I don't know, I can't. I'm
Speaker 1: starting to see the thought process a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about mental health and comedians. And it's
Speaker 1: not a subject that doesn't come up from time to
Speaker 1: time that you know, comedians have mental health issues? Is
Speaker 1: it mental health that makes people want to go into comedy?
Speaker 1: But let's talk about a depression specifically, and the role
Speaker 1: of dealing with depression as a comedian, in particular performing comedian. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a lot to be said
Speaker 1: for the different aspects of depression in the brain, whether
Speaker 1: it's a chemical imbalance or whether it's you know, a
Speaker 1: culture that has surrounded you and is trying to not
Speaker 1: in a way that is a conspiracy, but just in
Speaker 1: a way of how we're surrounded by both like social
Speaker 1: media expectations and the expectation to rise as you get
Speaker 1: older in a capitalist society, all of those things can
Speaker 1: begin to like ring the joy I have a person
Speaker 1: like a rag, because then it just feels like it's
Speaker 1: your job to be happy, to make everyone else happy.
Speaker 1: It's your job to not have problems. It's your job
Speaker 1: to fix all those problems when they come along. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's why we're looking at like a
Speaker 1: country and a nation of people who are struggling with
Speaker 1: their mental health because of the parameters we've set ourselves
Speaker 1: up in to live. As a comedian, I'd like to
Speaker 1: think that I help with easing some of that by
Speaker 1: both poking unadded and reminding people that all of these
Speaker 1: pillars of society that you're supposed to adhere to in
Speaker 1: order to be an adult, or be a man, or
Speaker 1: be uh like a worthy person of friends and family,
Speaker 1: all those things are made up, and different cultures have
Speaker 1: totally different expectations and are going through their own version
Speaker 1: of those same things, And I think that in full
Speaker 1: examination of the world around you and the way that
Speaker 1: it works, it's very easy to get discouraged, and it's
Speaker 1: very easy to get overwhelmed. And I think that's why
Speaker 1: a lot of comedians deal with their own forms of depression.
Speaker 1: If you if you sat someone in a room and
Speaker 1: had them examine everything for twenty four hours a day,
Speaker 1: including themselves, I think you would get a depressed person
Speaker 1: to a certain degree, you know, like if you're paying
Speaker 1: close attention to everything that's happening in the world. A
Speaker 1: lot of it is positive, but a lot of it
Speaker 1: is not. And I think trying to combat that, especially
Speaker 1: with something that can sometimes feel so as useless as
Speaker 1: a joke, you know, Like I think that a comedian's
Speaker 1: job is important, but I'm not delusional enough to think
Speaker 1: I'm a doctor or like a lawyer that could file
Speaker 1: someone's appeal and help them get out of jail if
Speaker 1: they're wrongly convicted. Like I mean, i feel like I'm
Speaker 1: armed with the power of ideas, but I'm mostly powerless
Speaker 1: in a world that is like completely concentrated, run by
Speaker 1: and obsessed with power. And so I think comedians have
Speaker 1: a big struggle with finding their place in social commentary
Speaker 1: and finding their niche of like what success means to
Speaker 1: them and how much of that is necessary in order
Speaker 1: to convey their message or make them happy. And I
Speaker 1: think that even with like my own levels of depression
Speaker 1: and everything, like I said, writing the joke and coming
Speaker 1: to conclusions about it, especially ones that are funny and
Speaker 1: make other people laugh, it takes some of the power
Speaker 1: away from my situation, and it uses that power to
Speaker 1: make other people laugh and bring levity to their life.
Speaker 1: But I think that along that road, especially when it's
Speaker 1: not working, it can be an even more bitter one
Speaker 1: to travel down. Because now, let's say, you know, I
Speaker 1: used to always say that, um, if I try to
Speaker 1: be so honest on stage sometimes that if I bomb,
Speaker 1: that's just a thing a bunch of strangers know about me.
Speaker 1: Now like now now we're now we're just in it
Speaker 1: together because now you didn't think it was funny and
Speaker 1: it happened. So I don't know, I don't know where
Speaker 1: we go from here. And I mean, to a certain degree,
Speaker 1: the same way that people have the stereotype of actors
Speaker 1: going to acting because they want attention, I think that
Speaker 1: there's a stereotype about comedians that I am not sure
Speaker 1: it's wholly untrue that there's nothing mentally healthy about airing
Speaker 1: out your laundry for the approval of a bunch of strangers.
Speaker 1: This is essentially a lot of what we talk about,
Speaker 1: especially the ones of us who are very raw. Um
Speaker 1: should just be said to a clinical psychologist or a
Speaker 1: therapist that may be dealt with, and instead we air
Speaker 1: it out so that other will know that this other
Speaker 1: thing is more normal. There are plenty of subjects that
Speaker 1: I think if comedians talked about more, they get rewarded
Speaker 1: for talking about if you pay attention, you know, like
Speaker 1: like I think that Ali Wong has done tremendous things
Speaker 1: for not just women in comedy, but women to have
Speaker 1: aspects of their lives and their pregnancies and their attitudes
Speaker 1: that are finally addressed by someone that they admire, that
Speaker 1: has the confidence to stand from thousands of people and
Speaker 1: talk about it from their own perspective, and then that
Speaker 1: person goes out into the world and maybe they have
Speaker 1: a little bit more confidence about it. You know. I
Speaker 1: think that so much pain and so much aggression and
Speaker 1: misunderstandings just come from a place of not knowing, not
Speaker 1: so much not accepting. So when comedians bring up things
Speaker 1: as a joke that normally would start a fistfight at
Speaker 1: a Thanksgiving table, you do walk away with that understanding.
Speaker 1: You laughed at it, and maybe it changed your perspective
Speaker 1: on a thing that you thought you were decided on,
Speaker 1: Because especially if a person can make a joke catchy
Speaker 1: and repeatable to the point where you're like a George Carlin,
Speaker 1: where people are repeating your joke at a party, commentary,
Speaker 1: or thought, I think that that permeates the culture. And
Speaker 1: not to say that comedians should be like lauded or
Speaker 1: all of us should receive millions of dollars. I mean,
Speaker 1: that'd be nice, but I understand that that's like a
Speaker 1: lofty dream. I just wish that people did recognize how
Speaker 1: much of what comedians say permeates the culture and the
Speaker 1: responsibility that we take in like addressing our own and
Speaker 1: the world's mental health when we're either talking about or
Speaker 1: not talking about it. For some, For some comedians, just
Speaker 1: being up there is like a champion of their fears
Speaker 1: of their mental health state because they have depression and
Speaker 1: they couldn't get out of bed this morning, and maybe
Speaker 1: someone did have to drag them to the comedy club
Speaker 1: or to their to their show, and they share their
Speaker 1: gift freely with the rest of the world, even though
Speaker 1: they're in deep, deep pain. And it's a testament, just
Speaker 1: like you see those Olympic runners who maybe pulled a
Speaker 1: calf muscle in practice and they still show up to
Speaker 1: the Olympics and run for a gold medal. Do you
Speaker 1: think that comedians are drawn to comedy because of underlying
Speaker 1: issues or do you think that comedy exacerbates mental health
Speaker 1: or a little of both. It's like the kind of
Speaker 1: the question I used to ask myself, you know, at
Speaker 1: a certain point as a teenager, like is it the
Speaker 1: depressing music I'm listening to that's making me depressed? Or
Speaker 1: am I drawn to the depressive music because I'm already depressed?
Speaker 1: Like what's the relationship here? Is listening to the Smith's
Speaker 1: bad for me? Is it healing? It's I can't quite tell. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit of both of the
Speaker 1: things that you listed, because I think that people they
Speaker 1: do generally work in spirals the same way that you know,
Speaker 1: you talk about feeding the wolf. It's like, well, look,
Speaker 1: if you if you have to, and you feed one
Speaker 1: now the one that you fed has the energy the
Speaker 1: next time you're at the cave or whatever to come
Speaker 1: back and run up to you first and take the
Speaker 1: next meal and the next meal and the next meal,
Speaker 1: while the other side is starving. So I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of comedians, like I know, I was definitely
Speaker 1: depressed a lot as a kid and young adult, and
Speaker 1: you know, I still, I still have my bouts. And
Speaker 1: I think that I was a specific case because I
Speaker 1: felt at least like comedy was the only thing I
Speaker 1: was at, so then it felt like a no brainer
Speaker 1: to try to like make it work one way or another,
Speaker 1: no matter what. But I also think that comedy can
Speaker 1: exacerbate those things because you have so much writing on
Speaker 1: your perspective. You live and die by your word, and
Speaker 1: when people misunderstand it or they just don't get it,
Speaker 1: it does hurt. People's fear of public speaking is slightly rational.
Speaker 1: It does suck very much for a group of people
Speaker 1: to just stare at you, like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Like that's a terrible feeling. And you know, especially the
Speaker 1: way that comedy used to work, because in those rock
Speaker 1: star days of like you know, Sam Kennison and like
Speaker 1: um Mark Marin's old sort of front half of his
Speaker 1: career where everyone was doing drugs and like clubs and
Speaker 1: bars and didn't necessarily have cash, or they were trying
Speaker 1: to pay you in drinks, which like still kind of
Speaker 1: happens today from time to time. It's like, why do
Speaker 1: you think there are so many alcoholics doing comedy. It's
Speaker 1: like they get paid in drinks. So not only did
Speaker 1: they take all of their pain and sometimes it's not pain.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of comics who stay very silly,
Speaker 1: who are very funny, who don't touch on social issues
Speaker 1: at all, and I respect and love, but they still
Speaker 1: took all of their brain power, all of their intellect
Speaker 1: to create something that lots of people enjoyed. And maybe
Speaker 1: because they're not business savvy enough, or because they're not
Speaker 1: greedy enough, or because they're desperate, they didn't get a
Speaker 1: cut and all those people showing up to enjoy their work,
Speaker 1: or maybe no one showing up at all, and so
Speaker 1: now they're paid for it with a beer. And it's
Speaker 1: like this little level of distraction is all of your
Speaker 1: your efforts are worth? Can feel that way, you know,
Speaker 1: Like because I don't drink, so I've had people try
Speaker 1: to pay me and beers and I'm like, well, I
Speaker 1: guess you're just not paying me, Like I don't, I
Speaker 1: don't know what we're going to do about this. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that comedians are onto comedy both
Speaker 1: because it lifts a lot of the aspects of depression,
Speaker 1: but also because it can be that extra downward spiral
Speaker 1: that you need. Some people ride comedy like it's taking
Speaker 1: them somewhere, but it really is. You drive in the car,
Speaker 1: so you know, you'll see comedians who have a tough
Speaker 1: time and then all their jokes are full of venom
Speaker 1: and spite and anger, and it's like, all right, that's
Speaker 1: what you turned the comedy into because that's what you thought,
Speaker 1: either thought was funny or what you're feeling, and you
Speaker 1: don't care if it's funny or not. And then you
Speaker 1: see people get to such a happy place that all
Speaker 1: their jokes are just like completely light, and it's like
Speaker 1: that's what they created with it, you know. So what
Speaker 1: about you in your own life, Like do you use strategies,
Speaker 1: emotional strategies or self help strategies to deal with your depression.
Speaker 1: I've definitely come to an understanding about myself that I
Speaker 1: almost need to time things out, like I'll feel a
Speaker 1: certain way about something or or even better yet, I'll
Speaker 1: be in a mood. Right, So, I'm in a mood,
Speaker 1: and I've at least been lucky enough to surround myself
Speaker 1: with good people and been alive long enough to have
Speaker 1: those moments where I'm like, all right, I'm in a mood.
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll pass, maybe it won't, but for right now,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to act on anything with this mood
Speaker 1: in mind, you know. So if that means I stay
Speaker 1: in all day, I stay in all day that. If
Speaker 1: that means I have to go somewhere, then I will go.
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm just going to be very aware of myself.
Speaker 1: And it's one of the things that I got out
Speaker 1: of reading a lot of Zen back in the day
Speaker 1: when I lived in Chicago, because it was one of
Speaker 1: the first things that really captured me and wasn't in
Speaker 1: any argument with. So there are lots of sacred text,
Speaker 1: lots of religious writings or self help books whatever that
Speaker 1: because you're reading the way that reading works. When you're reading,
Speaker 1: you're talking your head. You hear your own voice reading
Speaker 1: the thing in your head. But when it's something that
Speaker 1: you don't agree with, or something that's annoying, or something
Speaker 1: you don't believe, or something you don't understand. It creates
Speaker 1: an argument in your head, you know, it creates this like, well, no,
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense, that's crazy. Why would you?
Speaker 1: And Zen writings were the first thing that I read
Speaker 1: where there was no argument, not because I agreed with it,
Speaker 1: but because there was nothing to be agreed with or
Speaker 1: fought against, you know, it just was it was like,
Speaker 1: are you unhappy? If you're not unhappy, then hey, you're fine.
Speaker 1: But if you are unhappy, maybe this is something that
Speaker 1: you could do about it. Maybe it's not, maybe you
Speaker 1: have a different path. And it just felt like talking
Speaker 1: to someone who actually understood, you know, it felt like
Speaker 1: talking to someone because because sometimes people can be so
Speaker 1: close to you and love you so much. This is
Speaker 1: a thing that happens with every single person, but it
Speaker 1: also happens with comedians sometimes, where people love you so
Speaker 1: much that they won't let you bomb. So if friends
Speaker 1: are there, they're gonna laugh at your joke, even if
Speaker 1: it's not funny, even if they heard a hundred times.
Speaker 1: But then the people who don't know you are giving
Speaker 1: you the honest reaction of like nothing, like this isn't funny,
Speaker 1: or like I don't get it. And it's a trap
Speaker 1: that some people get in in comedy, especially in that
Speaker 1: open mic stage, because you're an open micro you make
Speaker 1: friends with a bunch of open micros. Then you almost
Speaker 1: start playing to the room. You start playing to your
Speaker 1: friends as opposed to playing to the crowd and trying
Speaker 1: to get better as a comic. The same thing happens
Speaker 1: with life. So you can surround yourself with people who
Speaker 1: love you so much that they won't let you fail.
Speaker 1: They won't tell you when you're wrong, they won't tell
Speaker 1: you the hard things that you have to do how
Speaker 1: to fix them, and they'll make excuses for you. And
Speaker 1: if you live in that, then you're never going to
Speaker 1: improve as a person. You're never gonna be happier as
Speaker 1: a person because you're never going to address anything that
Speaker 1: you do that's making you unhappy. And it felt like
Speaker 1: when I was reading those Zen meditations that it was
Speaker 1: the first time that someone was like not judging but
Speaker 1: also not hyping up. You know, you can read aize
Speaker 1: self health books that are like you deserve to be happy,
Speaker 1: and it's like, look, I'm not I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: be a jerk, but maybe not everybody deserves to be happy.
Speaker 1: There are people doing terrible things in the world, and
Speaker 1: maybe they do deserve to feel sad about them for
Speaker 1: a little while because it proves that they're human and
Speaker 1: that they have a conscience. So they're definitely people who
Speaker 1: give you loving advice that's coming from the wrong place.
Speaker 1: You see it a lot with friends. Friends give some
Speaker 1: of the worst dating advice you can imagine, because not
Speaker 1: only are they not dating the person you're dating, but
Speaker 1: you've never dated them and they've never dated you to
Speaker 1: see what type of partner you are. So then you
Speaker 1: tell them the scenario. You obviously tell it to him
Speaker 1: with bias because you're upset, and they tell you know
Speaker 1: you deserve better than that, but they weren't there. So
Speaker 1: now you go back hyped up and you make it
Speaker 1: worse because your friend was like, no, Doc, you're better
Speaker 1: than that. Don't take it. And and comedy does the
Speaker 1: same thing sometimes, And I think that levels of depression
Speaker 1: can work in that same way, where the things that
Speaker 1: feel good and normal and familiar that you're attracted to,
Speaker 1: sometimes they lead to your depression. Sometimes they just don't
Speaker 1: get you out of it. And when I was reading
Speaker 1: these texts, it was the first time that I was like, Wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is my plan thus far. It may change and
Speaker 1: it may not even be a good plan. I may
Speaker 1: have to adapt it. But when I get depressed, I'm
Speaker 1: going to take a second, even if it is literally
Speaker 1: just one second, and be like, this is where you are,
Speaker 1: and then deal with it from there. And sometimes that
Speaker 1: that leads to me making really good decisions and being
Speaker 1: very pragmatic, and other times it leads to me not
Speaker 1: taking enough action. But at least if I'm honest with
Speaker 1: myself and aware of myself, I can I can move
Speaker 1: forward in a way that I won't regret later. I
Speaker 1: can proudly say that ever since I've read those books,
Speaker 1: and I had had long bouts without reading any Zen
Speaker 1: writings anything like I'm not a Buddhist or anything, but
Speaker 1: I can tell you that when I was twenty two
Speaker 1: three and I was reading I was just devouring all
Speaker 1: these books about it. Even though I haven't read them
Speaker 1: as much since, it really changed my life in the
Speaker 1: way of taking a step back, even sometimes in the moment,
Speaker 1: giving it a good think. And I've had way less outbursts.
Speaker 1: I've had way less downward spirals. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's mainly due not just a maturity and getting older
Speaker 1: and caring about different things, but also because I set
Speaker 1: that mindset at such an early adult age that now
Speaker 1: it's how I plug into everything. You know, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: You made me think of a bunch of different things.
Speaker 1: They're one of them. Was There's always this balance with
Speaker 1: the people in our lives. And I've run into this
Speaker 1: as a as a coach. I coach people for a
Speaker 1: living right, all right, you know, I've got to stand you.
Speaker 1: I want to make you feel understood. I want to
Speaker 1: make it okay to be where you are. And I
Speaker 1: think you might need a little you know, you might
Speaker 1: need to be pushed a little bit or pulled a
Speaker 1: little bit, you know. And I think it's always it's
Speaker 1: always a challenging balance to do with with people we
Speaker 1: care about. Is like, all right, you know, commiserate, but
Speaker 1: also at what point do you advocate for a different perspective,
Speaker 1: a change of action, behaving differently all of that. It's
Speaker 1: it's such a nuanced thing to know the right thing
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, And and it's tough too because there
Speaker 1: are a lot of people who like go to therapy,
Speaker 1: let's say, and you know, don't always recognize that their
Speaker 1: therapist is just another person and it's just it's just
Speaker 1: trying to navigate both their own life and how to
Speaker 1: help people. And so sometimes whether it's due to the
Speaker 1: form of therapy the person doing the therapy, I've seen
Speaker 1: people almost of that same like misplace hyped up response
Speaker 1: to stibulus, as as if their friend gave them some
Speaker 1: bad advice. Because I don't know how rooted in psychology
Speaker 1: it's been since talk therapy was introduced, but there's for
Speaker 1: many a distinct belief that if people talk things out enough,
Speaker 1: they'll come to the right conclusion themselves. And it's like, look,
Speaker 1: I I think plenty of people can do that, but
Speaker 1: I think depending on the person in the situation, you
Speaker 1: do have to step in sometimes and be like, because
Speaker 1: you're looking at it this way, you're always going to
Speaker 1: veer off because of the initial seed that you planted
Speaker 1: of this isn't my fault or everyone else around me
Speaker 1: is against me, or whatever thought that is. And don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, sometimes people are right, like like the
Speaker 1: way that I always try to air out things with
Speaker 1: my friends when they have grievances, uh, not necessarily with me,
Speaker 1: but just with their world or their partner or whatever. Is.
Speaker 1: I always am like, look, there is a case that
Speaker 1: you're right. What are you going to do about that?
Speaker 1: You know, even if you're right, where are we going
Speaker 1: to move from here? If the entire point of this
Speaker 1: fight is to be right, then let's pretend you're already
Speaker 1: there because you think you are, so how are you
Speaker 1: going to be happy? Now? You know? And I think
Speaker 1: that that is where I try to be, and that's
Speaker 1: where comedy has brought me. Is that I looked out
Speaker 1: at the world and I saw this especially was really little,
Speaker 1: like really young. I saw this like super unfair, super racist,
Speaker 1: super evil, misogynistic, painful world. And then as I got
Speaker 1: a little bit older and started like, whether it's reading
Speaker 1: like your Bible or the Zen teachings or Koran or
Speaker 1: just psychology books for for people who are agnostic or
Speaker 1: atheist or anything like that, whatever you do to try
Speaker 1: to seek out some form of understanding about the world
Speaker 1: around you. I think that when you do it with
Speaker 1: an honest and genuine intention, you're going to find something
Speaker 1: that you can resonate with and for me that was
Speaker 1: comedy more so than anything else. You know, it was like,
Speaker 1: comedy is how I deal with how unfair the world is,
Speaker 1: and it's how I point out all the great things
Speaker 1: about the world, you know, because, like you, if you
Speaker 1: just watch mainstream news and you just stay in tune
Speaker 1: with the legislative branch and you just stick to all
Speaker 1: the factual, matter of facty things about the world, it
Speaker 1: looks like a bleak place. But inside and behind and
Speaker 1: around all of those things are beautiful, perfect examples of
Speaker 1: a wonderful human nature and a great place to live
Speaker 1: your life, you know, like like this earth isn't perfect,
Speaker 1: but it's a it's a nice place to be, especially
Speaker 1: if you make an effort to make it one wonderful.
Speaker 1: I think that is a great place to wrap it up.
Speaker 1: I love that underneath, around, behind, there's always be Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that. So thank you so much for taking
Speaker 1: the time to come on. It has been a real
Speaker 1: pleasure talking with you. I do appreciate it. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me man. I hope I didn't talk your head off.
Speaker 1: That's the point of this, that's the point. Yeah, great
Speaker 1: to meet you. Yeah, thanks again, it's been a real pleasure,
Speaker 1: take care. If what you just heard was helpful to you,
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