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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: All right, guys, we got a special guest in the

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Speaker 1: house this morning to talk to us about media and

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Speaker 1: also twenty twenty four politics, the former host of Hardball

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Speaker 1: with Chris Matthews, the one and only Chris Matthews.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, Thank you, sir, thank you. I'm here.

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Speaker 1: So let's start with a little bit of Biden administration stuff.

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Speaker 1: What do you give him as a grade on policy

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Speaker 1: and what do you give him as a grade?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm a political expert.

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm at, that's what i'm good at, and

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Speaker 4: I think he's going to be going to face a

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Speaker 4: close election next year. I think to twenty four even so,

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Speaker 4: I'd say, uh, he should be able to carry the

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Speaker 4: usual democratic states and lose the usual Republican states and

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Speaker 4: will decide the election, probably in Arizona, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia.

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Speaker 4: Although I think George is getting very tough for Trump

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Speaker 4: right now. It looks like that governor's pretty good, tough,

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Speaker 4: strong guy camp.

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Speaker 2: So you think it'll come down to the time.

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Speaker 4: I think, Look, the economy is the numbers are really interesting.

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Speaker 4: You know, I never thought of unemployment this low. It's

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Speaker 4: very low. But there's also the inflation threat. And I

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Speaker 4: don't think inflation goes away when they go from say

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Speaker 4: nine percent down to something lower.

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Speaker 3: I think people will still feel it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and when they and a guy complained the other

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Speaker 4: day about Philly, you know, Philly chief, what do you

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Speaker 4: call it, the chiefs? It was the chief, it was

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Speaker 4: the cheese itself. He's just complaining about phil And I

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Speaker 4: think people don't like prices. They don't like the gas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And if you're a working guy or working woman, you

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Speaker 4: have to travel fifteen miles to go to work. You

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Speaker 4: don't live near buying some elite neighborhood. You got to

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Speaker 4: travel that misgas every day. That's a tax. It's a tax, yeah,

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Speaker 4: and you don't get you don't get anything out of it.

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Speaker 4: You don't get an extra speed out of it. You

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Speaker 4: just pay a lot more for gas. And I think

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Speaker 4: that's real. So I think where inflation is going to

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Speaker 4: be if Trump does well, meaning if he wins despite

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Speaker 4: all the legal challenges he faces, if he wins, it'll

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Speaker 4: be because of inflation and unemployment is lower. But that

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Speaker 4: only affects the unemployed. Are the employed, I mean, that's

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Speaker 4: only a percentage. It's very good to get it low

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Speaker 4: because it gets marginal people to work. I think one

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Speaker 4: thing really good thing about the economy today is that

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Speaker 4: people that normally wouldn't get a job are working because

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Speaker 4: they've they've gotten brought onto the workforce by salaries.

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Speaker 1: So what do you think about from a political perspective,

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Speaker 1: the idea of leaning into this label Bidenomics, fusing his

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Speaker 1: name with an economy that the overwhelming majority of people

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Speaker 1: of people say is not working for them.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think that he's done some things

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Speaker 4: that Trump hasn't done done. Donald Trump came into office

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Speaker 4: saying he was going to do infrastructure and build up

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Speaker 4: the economy, build up the roads, highways, bridges, everything and

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Speaker 4: the new stuff.

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Speaker 3: He didn't do it. Why didn't you do it? That's

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Speaker 3: my big question.

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Speaker 4: Why didn't Trump do the every Even demagogues like Huey

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Speaker 4: Long and Hitler and people like that, they all build stuff.

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Speaker 4: Building is what demagogues do. It's one way to reach

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Speaker 4: the people.

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Speaker 3: Why didn't he do it?

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Speaker 1: So if he was so bad, no, no.

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Speaker 3: That's not so bad. It's just said that Biden has

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Speaker 3: done this.

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Speaker 1: But if he's done better on these areas, why are

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Speaker 1: they tied? And then you also have, obviously all the indictments.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this man may be facing prison time by

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Speaker 1: the time the election comes around. Why is it a

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Speaker 1: jump ball? Isn't that a you know, show some weakness

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Speaker 1: on the Democratic the other side?

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Speaker 4: I think it is charisma. I think Biden may suffer

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Speaker 4: from that. I don't think he has the charm that

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Speaker 4: Biden that Barack Obama had or Reagan had. I think

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Speaker 4: I'm writing about that now. I mean, who's good on television.

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Speaker 4: Let's pig blunt. Who's good on television and politics that matters?

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Speaker 4: Trump is good on television. When he says something, he

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Speaker 4: doesn't reconsider his words. He says at once. He doesn't

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Speaker 4: say I mean that, folks, literally, folks, he just said it.

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Speaker 4: And when Trump speaks, it's loud, and I think that's

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Speaker 4: powerful stuff. And Reagan could do it that, Barack Obama

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Speaker 4: could do it. Jack Kennedy could do it. Roosevelt could

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Speaker 4: do it on the radio. But Biden does have that problem.

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Speaker 4: He's older too, he's eighty.

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Speaker 3: His problem is the gravitas doesn't come through. I think

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Speaker 3: that's part of it.

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Speaker 4: A lot of this is cosmetic, and let's say said,

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Speaker 4: a lot of politics is how you look, what do

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Speaker 4: you sound like?

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Speaker 3: Are you convincing?

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Speaker 4: And even if if the policies are good, he's got

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Speaker 4: to go out and sell them.

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Speaker 2: What about Kamala Harris? Do you think she's a good

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Speaker 2: heir apparent for the Democratic Party?

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Speaker 4: I think she'd have a hard time winning a general

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Speaker 4: election on her own.

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Speaker 2: Why did he make a mistake.

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Speaker 4: Because I don't think that she has gone out and

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Speaker 4: talked to the American people. You know, when you're running

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Speaker 4: for office, you have to make yourself likable. You have

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Speaker 4: to make yourself likable, and this guy did. DeSantis isn't

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Speaker 4: able to do that. He doesn't know how to do

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Speaker 4: small talk. He can't talk to kids, he can't talk

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Speaker 4: to regular people. A lot of people have had this

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Speaker 4: problem I mean, John Carrey had this problem. Watermandale had

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Speaker 4: this problem. A lot of people have come off as

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Speaker 4: too official. They don't know how to talk to regular people.

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Speaker 4: W could do it like a bandit. He may have

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Speaker 4: been he took us under the wrong war, but he

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Speaker 4: knew how to talk to regular people. And that talent

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Speaker 4: hasn't come from the Florida governor. And for some reason,

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Speaker 4: Kamala thinks she's she comes off as as prosecutor, like

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Speaker 4: she's talking about people to disagree with their own abortion rights. Well,

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Speaker 4: they're not wrong. I mean, they may be wrong in

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Speaker 4: your thinking. They may you may disagree with them, but

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Speaker 4: they're not evil, you know, And and that's not and

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Speaker 4: portraying it always being on the attack doesn't make you

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Speaker 4: popular to make the list of all the popular prosecutors

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Speaker 4: there are.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, they're just not.

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Speaker 4: And I think you have to tell stories that if

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Speaker 4: I were in her corner and I used to do

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Speaker 4: this for a living, I tell her tell stories about

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Speaker 4: growing up with a tiger mother, an Indian American mother,

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Speaker 4: that must have been really tough. You have all a's

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Speaker 4: you know what it's like. You can imagine what it's like,

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Speaker 4: you know, and tell her what is what that's like,

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Speaker 4: what's like having a Jamaican father with that, what is

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Speaker 4: that mixture to cultures?

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Speaker 3: What was that like? Tell us something that makes that

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Speaker 3: brings you into your life?

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Speaker 4: And everybody, everybody tells the narrative Bill Clinton was the

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Speaker 4: best of the best in you was good. Sure, and

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Speaker 4: you have to tell your stories. And people say, you

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Speaker 4: know what, that's not quite my story. But you know,

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Speaker 4: I think it's interesting if I want to follow that

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Speaker 4: person and she doesn't do that, and I don't understand.

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Speaker 4: I don't understand a politician who doesn't try to be liked.

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Speaker 4: And I think, uh, Jack Kennedy, people used to say,

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Speaker 4: I've written a lot of books about him and that

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Speaker 4: he that everybody thought he liked them. That's a talent

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Speaker 4: that people thought that he liked them.

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Speaker 3: Well, does that come across with her?

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Speaker 1: Do you think the American people don't think that? It

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Speaker 1: doesn't really matter what I mean, the people don't.

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Speaker 4: You know, some people come off as a Michelle Obama's

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Speaker 4: very popular, but she doesn't have to.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't have the approving voice either. It's not it's

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Speaker 3: not common.

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Speaker 4: Harry didn't have it. It's it's not getting people to

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Speaker 4: do what you wanted to do. It's getting to like

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Speaker 4: you first, and then they might do what you wanted

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Speaker 4: to do. But to convince people, by the way politics

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Speaker 4: is simple. You have to like the persons, just so simple.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's the first step. But you know, to go.

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Speaker 3: Back to trust them and trust them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and to to go back to the Biden critique.

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Speaker 1: Isn't there more though than just you know, the messaging

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Speaker 1: or the cosmetic or his inability that you convey gravitas? Well,

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Speaker 1: we're asking you, well it is.

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Speaker 3: Why do you have to repeat yourself.

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Speaker 1: When you look at the numbers? Though, When you look

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Speaker 1: at the numbers in terms of how people are doing economically,

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Speaker 1: you do have this mixed picture. I mean, the White

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Speaker 1: House can rightly point to one low unemployment rate as

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Speaker 1: you did, but when you look at the percentage of

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Speaker 1: people who are food and secure a struggling to pay

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Speaker 1: their bills, trillion dollars in debt, credit card debt, we

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Speaker 1: just hit that milestone as the nation. So there is

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Speaker 1: real economics.

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Speaker 3: There's people living at.

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Speaker 4: The edge where they can't raise three hundred bucks if

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Speaker 4: they need. You've seen these studies exactly. You can't raise

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Speaker 4: three hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: Right, So isn't there more to the problems for Biden

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Speaker 1: and why he's tied with Trump?

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Speaker 3: Well, then there's then there's.

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Speaker 4: Always going to be problems when you just establish as

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Speaker 4: the American condition, it's always going to be like that wellistic,

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Speaker 4: nihilistic got tay Ronald Reagan got real liked the morning

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Speaker 4: at America.

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Speaker 3: What was the unemployment rate? What do you think it is?

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Speaker 4: Unemployment rate was I don't know seven. So, I mean,

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Speaker 4: you can't just quantify and say it's.

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Speaker 1: Not just about where people are, it's where they they're going.

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Speaker 1: And so during the pandemic, for example, you know, there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of problems, there was a lot of pain,

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Speaker 1: but you also had a child tax credit that was

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Speaker 1: put in place that genuinely reduced child poverty. You actually

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Speaker 1: had homelessness significantly reduced because you had eviction moratoriums, you

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Speaker 1: had expanded access to healthcare, and you had actually suicides

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Speaker 1: went down un even.

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Speaker 3: In Michigan on hold on.

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Speaker 1: So it is possible to improve the material condition of Americans.

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Speaker 1: We've seen it throughout American history. We saw it just

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Speaker 1: now in the pandemic. When the government wants to deliver

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Speaker 1: so to say to throw up your hands like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is just the American condition.

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Speaker 3: Running.

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Speaker 4: We're running two trillion dollars in data, in full employment.

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Speaker 4: It is basically full em playment. You can't have more

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Speaker 4: expansive economic policies than that.

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Speaker 3: You can't. You blow the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: You did, and it worked very well for people. It

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Speaker 1: worked well for lots of people who had more money

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Speaker 1: in their bank account and where childhood poverty was much

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Speaker 1: lower the pandemic. And then you also had, you know,

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Speaker 1: talk about the FDR era. I mean, we had a

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Speaker 1: new deal that you know, built out the American middle class.

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Speaker 1: This is the era you were growing up. I know

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Speaker 1: you're right, things are possible. You can't just say, oh,

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Speaker 1: well this.

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Speaker 3: Is more money. Yeah, spend more money and tax the rich. Okay,

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Speaker 3: how are you going to do that?

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Speaker 1: You're going to tax the rich?

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Speaker 3: How do you do that?

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Speaker 1: The wealthiest among us?

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Speaker 4: Who runs the runs the Congress?

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Speaker 1: The wealthy? But isn't that the part of the problem.

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Speaker 3: So what's your argument?

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Speaker 1: My argument is.

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Speaker 4: The wealthy shouldn't be wealthy and the Democrats should be

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Speaker 4: running the Congress.

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Speaker 2: Well, I know, my argument is the American condition. We

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Speaker 2: can't do anything more.

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Speaker 3: Like I can tell you we're running.

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Speaker 4: We're running in something that's very close to read more inflation,

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Speaker 4: very close.

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Speaker 3: So what do you do.

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Speaker 4: You bring up, bring up prices if it look demand

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Speaker 4: pull more money you spend, the more prices go up.

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Speaker 3: Right, do we agree on that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: No, I actually don't fully agree on that because of

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Speaker 1: what we saw coming out of the pandemic. You know,

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Speaker 1: the argument was always just because of all the big

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Speaker 1: government spending, because God forbid, we give working class people

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Speaker 1: a little bit of money in their pockets. At the

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Speaker 1: same time, increasingly we've seen a lot of the price

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Speaker 1: increases were from corporations who decided they could price gouge

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Speaker 1: and use the excuse of inflation to lift prices significantly. Now,

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Speaker 1: that was seen as a fringe theory at the time

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Speaker 1: when it was first floated, like just a bunch of

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Speaker 1: lefty wars that think this. We now have increasing evidence

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Speaker 1: that that was a big part of it. We also

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Speaker 1: had coming out of the pandemic, huge supply chain disruptions

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Speaker 1: that were a real problem, and also the Ukraine War

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Speaker 1: contributed to that significantly. So to just say, oh, they

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Speaker 1: spent money and that's what happened. I think that's a

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Speaker 1: very simplistic understanding of what was going on. Well, all right,

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Speaker 1: well disagree.

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Speaker 4: I argue that the more government spending, whether the government

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Speaker 4: or from the private sector or investment or consumer spending,

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Speaker 4: all that spending drives up prices.

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Speaker 3: All that drives up prices.

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Speaker 2: So I think we need to spend less if you

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Speaker 2: want to have left lesson. So we talked to her

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Speaker 2: about inflation. I want to ask you about the media.

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Speaker 2: I grew up kind of watching you on television.

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Speaker 3: This show.

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Speaker 2: Kind of our popularity and the existence of a lot

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Speaker 2: of the Internet has kind of been in reaction to

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Speaker 2: cable news, of which you were a product of for decades.

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Speaker 2: Why do you think that trust in media right now

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Speaker 2: is so low?

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Speaker 4: Too many voices, too many, too many different voices. You

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Speaker 4: can watch Fox, and you can watch MSNBC or CNN,

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Speaker 4: and you can watch different stories.

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Speaker 2: So you just think optionality is what has reduced trust.

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Speaker 4: Trust is the problem of all media because you have

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Speaker 4: to give the whole picture, Like you have to talk inflation,

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Speaker 4: you have to talk prices, you have to put it

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Speaker 4: all together. And we're trying to run an American economy

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Speaker 4: that's healthy and for example, if you talk about Hunter,

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Speaker 4: why not to talk about Jared No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 4: just a minute. Who else does that?

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Speaker 2: Not very many? No?

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Speaker 3: Anybody right? Anybody right?

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Speaker 4: So nobody talks about the holistic situation of relatives and

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Speaker 4: how they might be exploiting the situation. Yeah, well that's

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Speaker 4: a problem because everybody is watching. Well, the weu is

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Speaker 4: right here has limited So who else is doing that?

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Speaker 3: Who else is doing the whole picture?

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Speaker 4: When they talk about things like you're talking about inflation

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Speaker 4: and the problems of the poor and everything else and

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Speaker 4: homelessness and putting it all together, and you're talking this

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Speaker 4: one point of view, putting it all together. What happens

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Speaker 4: to the average person, The middle class family has to

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Speaker 4: pay bills when prices go up, they got to PIV.

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Speaker 4: When you're retired, you don't have any income coming in.

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Speaker 4: That's already there. It's fixed. These are realities. You cannot

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Speaker 4: hurt one group and say I'm helping the other, because

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Speaker 4: when you're president you have to put it all together.

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Speaker 4: In the media, I do think that if you look

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Speaker 4: at who watches MSNBC and who watches CNN and seeing

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Speaker 4: an an experiment with Chris Slick with going independent or

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Speaker 4: rather going non partisan. It's a very difficult time to

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Speaker 4: go nonpartisans. Yeah, because you have to say, well, I

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Speaker 4: don't know whether Trump won the election in twenty twenty. Well,

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Speaker 4: if you want to say that, I think you're an idiot.

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Speaker 3: But that's all right.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 4: You say that, and you're saying, I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: deal with factual news. I'm not going to go with

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Speaker 4: which states voted. I'm not going with how the electrics

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Speaker 4: were counted. Honestly, I'm not going to I'm going to

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Speaker 4: just say, well, they're all the same. No, they're not

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Speaker 4: all the same.

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Speaker 2: And I think you did a lot of this at MSNBC.

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Speaker 3: What did I do with the figure pointing well, you know,

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Speaker 3: what did I do? What did I do? Here? Well,

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Speaker 3: what did I do?

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Speaker 2: I saw you do that a lot.

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Speaker 3: No, I never did you what did I do?

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Speaker 2: I mean while you were in the chair at MSNBC,

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Speaker 2: specifically during the Trump years. I mean you're talking about

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Speaker 2: how Fox every criticism you just gave. I mean we're

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Speaker 2: also talking about I watched on your network. Russia Gate

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Speaker 2: coverage about Trump was an asset from nineteen eighty seven

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Speaker 2: about selective covers or all this. I mean, do you

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Speaker 2: still feel good about that coverage? Like, because you're.

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Speaker 3: Talking about that. That's the problem.

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Speaker 4: The problem was that we had a lot of points

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Speaker 4: where there was would look like collusion with the Russians

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Speaker 4: showing up all the time, Russians showing up at conventions,

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Speaker 4: what are they doing at conventions? Throwing up in meetings

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Speaker 4: with Trump, all.

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Speaker 3: This kind of all those issues together created.

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Speaker 4: The situation looked like it was all connected and that

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Speaker 4: never was connected. That's a fact, okay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so do you have any regrets about the

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Speaker 1: coverage during that time or you know.

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Speaker 4: I think whenever you whenever you're going to you're following

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Speaker 4: a story as it develops, and you look at it

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Speaker 4: developing and developing and developing, and all these these points

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Speaker 4: seem to hit and all the connections with Russia again

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Speaker 4: and again and again, and we never got to the.

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Speaker 3: End of the story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but as a journalist, you can't just float things

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Speaker 1: that are wildlike oh, maybe you said.

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Speaker 3: That's a floating thing. With every fact, we don't every

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Speaker 3: fact we dealt with was a fact.

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Speaker 1: But we watched, you know, segments about hey, maybe it

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Speaker 1: was a Russian asset since nineteen eighty seven. Hey, maybe

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Speaker 1: these peas? That was on Crisches's show. Jonathan Chate said

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Speaker 1: that one's show. You know a lot of veracity given

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Speaker 1: to the alleged p tape, et cetera. You don't think

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Speaker 1: the network got out beyond what the facts suggested.

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Speaker 4: I think I think that we did what we had

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Speaker 4: with what we had, and we.

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Speaker 3: Didn't have enough.

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Speaker 2: O gotcha and you didn't have enough. I guess I'm

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Speaker 2: curious through MSNBC now that you're on your outside of

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Speaker 2: your independent with your reflections of what went wrong. You know,

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Speaker 2: you start in the nineteen nineties on cable television, the

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Speaker 2: country was a lot more united. Things start to go downhill.

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Speaker 2: You've said here it's optionality. I'm just well, you said

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Speaker 2: you said that one of these I.

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Speaker 4: Said, you know, you know what we're talking about people

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Speaker 4: talking to the audience, confirming right with the audience already.

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Speaker 2: But don't you think that's what MSNBC did? I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's you're asking me about MSNBC. Ask me about me, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'll ask you. I mean, you were a fixture on

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Speaker 2: that network for.

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Speaker 3: Do you use these terms?

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Speaker 4: I was a fixture, I was a product of I

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Speaker 4: don't think these are causalities.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a function of individual.

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Speaker 4: Who I am and I've always been who I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and I may disagree with other people on the same network.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what you're talking about, this we and

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Speaker 4: us and all this thing.

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Speaker 1: Let me let me ask a little bit specifically about

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty sixteenth primary coverage, because I'm curious about

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Speaker 1: how this went down. You know, this was after I'd

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Speaker 1: been let go from the network, so I don't have

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Speaker 1: any insight into this era. And you would think that MSNBC,

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Speaker 1: being this liberal progressive network overwhelmingly and you certainly had

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Speaker 1: your own point of view, that they might at least

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Speaker 1: be a little bit Bernie curious, maybe a little bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, inclined towards Bernie Sanders. You had this overwhelming

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Speaker 1: or who would be for Bernie Sanders? Well, I'm saying

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Speaker 1: who was? That's what I'm saying, is that there you are?

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Speaker 4: That means you are that do you think other people

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Speaker 4: should be for Bernie Sanders?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm asking yes, your time. Hold on, Chris, hold on,

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Speaker 1: let me get to a question.

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Speaker 3: Answering the question.

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Speaker 1: No, But let me I haven't even gotten to the

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Speaker 1: typical question.

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Speaker 3: This is a cable news to net work. Chris, Well,

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Speaker 3: you're answering the question with your answer.

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Speaker 1: Your question, you had instead of you know, maybe a

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Speaker 1: variety of opinions or whatever, you had an overwhelming every

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Speaker 1: single host just completely opposed it, completely contemp fal of

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Speaker 1: the movement or at times gripped by like sheer terror

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Speaker 1: that he might want. Was that, hold on, hold on examples? Okay,

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Speaker 1: well names you did float that you might be rounded

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Speaker 1: up and executed in Central Park if he won. So

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Speaker 1: you also I didn't, like.

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Speaker 4: I mean very clear, never I never said anything about Hitler.

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Speaker 4: But what I'm I know, I never said anything about Hitler.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there was I believe a Nazi compared no.

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Speaker 3: No, I was. You have to answer.

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Speaker 1: That he might be, but this is true. You you

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Speaker 1: might be rounded up in Central Park and executive he

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Speaker 1: was president. Okay, So as one example, but you have

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Speaker 1: to say that overall, ten of the tenor of the

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Speaker 1: coverage of the network was very negative. Was that individuals

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Speaker 1: making choices? Was that like a voice coming down from

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Speaker 1: that or was that a problem of group thinks?

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Speaker 2: It was all individual at your time?

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Speaker 3: And then who would have talked to me.

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Speaker 1: There's lots of friends in this town. You're certainly in

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Speaker 1: touch with network executives who want to have you know.

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Speaker 3: I never got a point of view told to me

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Speaker 3: from anybody in the executive role.

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Speaker 1: So it just happenstance that every single person at the

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Speaker 1: network this way.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think the hate is the

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Speaker 3: right word.

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Speaker 1: Looks like it from the outside. People can speak to

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Speaker 1: their own view at the time.

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Speaker 4: No, I thought at the time, just to put this

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Speaker 4: back in where I'm factual and accountable. I thought when

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Speaker 4: Bernie was headed toward winning in New Hampshire and winning

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Speaker 4: in a Nevada big time, and I couldn't see even

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Speaker 4: results coming in from the others, the moderates from Biden

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Speaker 4: in those right, and I got I get concerned that

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Speaker 4: they've disappeared, that they weren't even there, because in the

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Speaker 4: afternoon in Nevada, we didn't have any numbers coming in

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Speaker 4: from anybody but Bernie.

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Speaker 3: Bernie was winning that thing in a landslide.

443
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 4: And anybody who'd been through nineteen seventy two knew what

444
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 4: happens when the Democratic Party goes that far left. And

445
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,680
Speaker 4: if you put a person like Bernie Sanders up there.

446
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 4: It looked to me like a rerun of nineteen seventy

447
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 4: two McGovern mcgovernor, and I saw McGovern got beaten in

448
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 4: almost every state, and I think, and I thought that

449
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 4: was wrong for the Democrats to do that. I thought

450
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 4: Bernie was probably or Elizabeth was going to win. And

451
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 4: of course I didn't happy, but I wasn't happy with

452
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 4: either one of them. But what do you think, Why

453
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 4: would I be happy with Why would I be happy

454
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 4: with people they're probably.

455
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 3: Going to lose?

456
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: That's your opinion. I mean, that's not what the polls

457
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 1: were showing in terms of how he was performing in

458
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,239
Speaker 1: hypothetical matchup matchups against Trump, both in twenty sixteen and

459
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 1: in twenty two.

460
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,680
Speaker 3: You're allowed, that's an arguments.

461
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 1: That opinion, but I mean it didn't match up with

462
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: the Well, let me know.

463
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 3: The Democratic Party got together.

464
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 4: And basically Jim Clyburn in South Carolina delivered a seventy

465
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,919
Speaker 4: percent victory for Biden. That was enough to convince the

466
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 4: others like like Mike Bloomberg and Amy Kloscher and met

467
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 4: Pete Bodhaje Edge to withdraw because they saw, for whatever reason,

468
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 4: they saw this heading And there's only one kendidate that

469
00:20:59,520 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 4: could win.

470
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, but don't you think the media played a

471
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,880
Speaker 1: part in also convincing people like this is the guy

472
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: that can win. Joe Biden is the one.

473
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 3: If the media control thing, Mario Cuomo would be president.

474
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 4: General power would be in the media has had favorites forever,

475
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 4: General Pale, We've had a lot of favorites that have

476
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 4: gone nowhere.

477
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 2: Well, we could the other way. Okay, you you were

478
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,920
Speaker 2: at a network and your show was beloved by many

479
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 2: Democratic primary voters. You don't think you had any influence

480
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 2: amongst those voters.

481
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 3: It was pretty clear that I wasn't.

482
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 4: I mean I think that the people I thought the

483
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 4: people around me were probably with Bernie. I don't think

484
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 4: there was an animosity. It's not interesting.

485
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 3: It's true.

486
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,639
Speaker 2: You know that people around you were like at the

487
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 2: network group or do you mean the people who watch

488
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 2: your show.

489
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 4: I thought there was a an ambivalence about Bernie winning

490
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 4: and a.

491
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 3: Sense of this is fine, that's all. Okay, no more

492
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 3: than that.

493
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 4: And I said, and I was the one hard strick

494
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 4: and that this is going to be a big defeat

495
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 4: it And I think you're wrong about thinking that the

496
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 4: middle class of the United States who run elections.

497
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,679
Speaker 3: Basically, we're not going to like Bernie.

498
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 1: But why do you assert that so confident when first.

499
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 3: Of all, he called himself a socialist.

500
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to sell I actually agree with

501
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: you that the label no, no, it.

502
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 3: Wasn't label, it was his name, it's what he said.

503
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: But Chris, when you look at what he actually supported,

504
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 1: things like healthcare for all, those are popular things, right,

505
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: living wage fifteen dollars men, that's very popular. In fact,

506
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: you know, the student debt cancelation is something that Biden

507
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: has picked up in his movie.

508
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: Bernie was able to put forward.

509
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 4: But I thought they were very popular Vermont and they

510
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 4: think he's very popular winning elections up there, and I

511
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 4: don't think it would have sold with the country.

512
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 2: I have a question about you specifically. So you've kind

513
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 2: of lionized like biparts and politics. You've written books about it,

514
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 2: Tipper and Reagan. I'm curious do you think, then, you

515
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 2: know we're talking here about Trump and Bernie, don't you

516
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 2: think those are kind of indictments of those type of politics,

517
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: the bipartisan kind of the lionization of that of the lionization. Yeah,

518
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 2: did you read my book no, I didn't read it. Okay,

519
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 2: so you're talking about well, I've seen the title of it.

520
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,239
Speaker 3: What are you talking about that?

521
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: Talking about you?

522
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 1: Where? Do you think that the populist energy around Bernie

523
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: and Trump both came from what's what? What is this?

524
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: In response to? And to me it seems to respond.

525
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 4: I think I think a lot of people are not happy. Yeah,

526
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 4: generally speaking, they did, they don't. I think there's a

527
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 4: lot of of animus about power, about intellectuals.

528
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 3: Are people doing the show?

529
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 4: And I think there's a lot of anger in working

530
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 4: people about the Democratic Party.

531
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: Do you think it's justified?

532
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 4: I think there's anybody that looks down on other people

533
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 4: has a problem.

534
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 3: It's creating a problem.

535
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: And you think there are elements, at least a Democratic

536
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: Party they look down on people.

537
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: What do you think?

538
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: I think so, But I'm curious.

539
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 3: I think so too.

540
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 2: Well. I guess it comes back to then how do

541
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: we get out of this?

542
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 4: Well, look, if you get you know, if you want

543
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 4: to get a really good socialist newspaper, I haven't read it.

544
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 4: So let's find one, okay, because there isn't one. Because

545
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 4: that's where Bernie's pushing big government role a lot of

546
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 4: government responsibility, a lot of government taking, possibly taking roles taking.

547
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean Bernie at this point is basically a loyal

548
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 1: soldier for Joe Biden or Bernie threat is completely neutralized

549
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: to the extent that it ever existed. Would you say

550
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: that's true, Well.

551
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 4: You say things, and then I got to think about

552
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 4: whether that's true or not. He's neutralized. I think he's been.

553
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 4: He and Biden, I think are on the phone a lot.

554
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 4: I think he supported Biden. I think he knew that

555
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 4: Biden was the one who could win, and I think

556
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 4: he saw him winning the Democratic Party, and I think

557
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 4: the maybe he has a sense of history. I don't know.

558
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 4: Bernie ran sort of wild liberal left wing politics up

559
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 4: in the Vermont and finally beat the Democratic Party. You

560
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 4: never joined the Democratic Party. Biden's head of the Democratic Party.

561
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 4: He has a different role this. Democrats are not socialists.

562
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 4: They're They're like Roosevelt. They believe in a little more

563
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 4: government in places like uh social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

564
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: But those issues have all been joined by Trump.

565
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 4: Trump completely agrees with leaving sub security alone, He leaves

566
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 4: many care, medic He has gone completely against the Republican

567
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 4: thinking about fiscal austhority the Democrats have gotten. And I

568
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,479
Speaker 4: just read this piece about new monetary policy. I think

569
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 4: it's wacky. They just spend all you want, print the money.

570
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 4: It's in the paper today, Robert Zelig. Print all the

571
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 4: money you want and just spend it. Biden and the

572
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,120
Speaker 4: student loan thing, Print the money and I'll give it

573
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 4: to you. I'm just where did the money come from?

574
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 4: Where'd the money come from? Where did the money come from?

575
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: Well, I'm curious.

576
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 3: What do you think? Market rates atmorrow rate mark are the.

577
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 2: Best and worst things that Biden is so as president?

578
00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 2: In your view, he wont that.

579
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: Was the best.

580
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 4: That's sarcastic, that's fun. I think I think infrastructure was important.

581
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 4: I think he should have done a bigger infrastructure bill.

582
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 4: I think although it may it may inflate the economy again.

583
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 4: I think that next year could be very bad for

584
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: the economy with inflation, and and that hurts. That hurts everybody.

585
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 4: You talk about spending more money, and you have the

586
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 4: goals for spending, but every time you spend, you're taking

587
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 4: money and inflating prices. It's just that you can talk

588
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 4: all you want to getting rid of inflation, it's never

589
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 4: gone away as long as the money has been spent.

590
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: So what about the worst? What are the worst things?

591
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 2: Biden to his president You mention, I.

592
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 4: Think there's an old rule of Churchills that you never

593
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 4: promised something you can't deliver. Don't say you can give

594
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 4: people freedom to free them from student loan debt. It's

595
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 4: their debt. They paid them, they made the decision. They're

596
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 4: getting their career opportunities out of it. The people in

597
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 4: the in the United States, the middle class and the

598
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 4: working class in Pennsylvania, who don't go to college, which

599
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 4: the majority of people, they're not going to get those benefits.

600
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 4: And yet you're taking them from them and saying, oh,

601
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 4: I'm going to just inflate the economy. I'm just going

602
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 4: to create more money, drive all the prices up to

603
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 4: pay for student loans. Well, that was very responsible because

604
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: he couldn't do it constitutionally. He had no right to

605
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,719
Speaker 4: do that. The courts are not going to back them

606
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 4: on this.

607
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they've already vacated in people's people's payments

608
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 2: are going to be resuming very soon. Some commentators we've

609
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: seen out there have been floating that we're on the

610
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: verge of a civil war. You love history.

611
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: No, let me do it.

612
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go back to you because this argument about

613
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: you've got to spend more money two tradion hours over

614
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 4: full employment. We've pushed down umployment as as low as

615
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 4: it's ever been able to do. This is the hardest

616
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 4: we can ever do. In terms of expansionism and and

617
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 4: and social programming and everything that Biden's done, He's as

618
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 4: probably as left as you could go.

619
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 1: Yes, wildly disagree.

620
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 4: I mean wildly disagree. Start the premise that we live

621
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 4: in a country we don't live in.

622
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 1: No. No, the beginning of the administration, there was significant

623
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: programs and relief, there were checks that were cut, there

624
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: were pandemic era programs. All of that has been stripped

625
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: away over the course of Biden administration. I mean, student

626
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: debt payments are set to be.

627
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: They COVID they were for COVID nineteen.

628
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: Everything that was done during that period was stripped away.

629
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 1: So to talk, the story of the Biden administration has

630
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: actually been cutting social spending over the course of administration,

631
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: which is why I would argue he's in such a

632
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: difficult place in terms of electorally because people's experience have been.

633
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: You know, I was doing okay, and now you know,

634
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: all of these things that were helping me, including I

635
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: think the child tax cred is a perfect example, those

636
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: things have gone away. I do think inflation is important

637
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: part of that story. I just disagree with the totality

638
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: of the causes of inflation, but I think that that's

639
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: the issue. But you know, you.

640
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 4: Know I disagree that, but prices go up, it's because

641
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 4: more money is being spent.

642
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the whole thing that's going on.

643
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: Is that is economics, but it's not that that's what

644
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: the economics textbook says. But when we look at you

645
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: can you let me finish here. The Federal Reserve did

646
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: research showing that a significant portion, a majority of the

647
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: inflation was just corporate price gouging. Executives were on calls.

648
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: You don't have to take my refort. Executives were on

649
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: calls bragging about how they were able to use the

650
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: excuse of inflation to hike up prices. So there's an

651
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: issue with monopolies of the last thing I really want

652
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: to get from you, and this is genuine.

653
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 4: In the real world, and I'm telling you, if inflation

654
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 4: rises next year and it continues that Theate, it's going

655
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 4: to hurt by Like I believe.

656
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: That the era that you've covered extensively, you know, it's

657
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 1: like this Reagan Clinton neoliberal consensus. Do you think that

658
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: that consensus failed in any meaningful respect? Do you think

659
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: that consensus is broken? Are we moving towards a new era,

660
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: or do you think that it continues a pace?

661
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think moderate moderation sells generally. I mean

662
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 4: mcgovernor beat Muskie. I mean, the fact is that if

663
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: you have a wild idea and you can appeal to

664
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 4: people who are desperate, they're going to give you a shot.

665
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 4: And like, you know, the idea that we can continue

666
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 4: a massive welfare program in addition to what we're spending now,

667
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 4: I don't know how we.

668
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 3: Can keep doing it. I just I.

669
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 4: Mean, there's not going to There's no way you're going

670
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: to raise taxes. I can't think of how you're going

671
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: to raise taxes with the Republican Congress right now, and

672
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: in effect, even the Senate is not going.

673
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 2: To do it, right yeah, I mean, so where are

674
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: you going to do it?

675
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: What government you're going to have? You're talking about the

676
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 3: United States government.

677
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: But do you think that there were core failures to

678
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: get back to this question of like where does the

679
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: populous energy around Trump and around Bernie? Where does this

680
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: come from? And is it rooted in some key failures

681
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: of that bipartisan consensus, the overlap between basically Bill Clinton

682
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: and Donald Reagan. You know, you have this census, You

683
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: have this consensus in favor of deregulation, You have the

684
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: Iraq War, you have free trade, you have all of

685
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: these things that build up to the financial crash. I mean,

686
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: aren't these key failures of neoliberalism that now you have

687
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: these movements in reaction to movements that you you know

688
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: very much don't support.

689
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: Don't support what you don't support, the populace movements like Trump,

690
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: like Trump or Bernie?

691
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

692
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, were there were there failures in that.

693
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: Trump or Bernie? Were there?

694
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: There's a different they're wildly different, but talking about animating energy,

695
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: here were their key failures in that neoliberal consensus that

696
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: has dominated here for some forty years.

697
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I mean, I don't know.

698
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 4: This is wearing me out. I'm just this argument is

699
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 4: just I'm arguing with someone who has.

700
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: No interest states.

701
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 4: How me the States are for your point of view,

702
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 4: because you're you're advocating here. You're pretending to interview me,

703
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 4: but you're really advocating for a social welfare state.

704
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: And I'm going to ask you where is it winning.

705
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: Well, look at Florida, they passed a fifteen dollars.

706
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: No, you're jumping around your point.

707
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to argue with you about Bernie anymore.

708
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you what you really think about

709
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: the era that you covered, and whether it's coming to

710
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: a close or whether you think that you know the leader.

711
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: Do you think it's coming to a close? Do you

712
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: think it served people well? Do you think there were

713
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: any failures to it, anything that should have been done

714
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: differently during that era?

715
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 3: Can I speak?

716
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah?

717
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: Go ahead.

718
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 4: I think the Democratic Party, the modern Democratic Party, has

719
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: been very good at opposing the Vietnam War, and most

720
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 4: of it, not at the top, is very good at

721
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 4: opposing the Iraq War. And these are real conditions where

722
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 4: people get killed, and we killed two hundred thousand people

723
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 4: in Iraq and the Vietnam fifty eight million people. Fifty

724
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 4: eight thousand people died from our country and millions and Vietnamese,

725
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 4: and we made those decisions on civil rights, starting with

726
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 4: the Brown case in fifty four and the Civil Rights

727
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 4: Bill and sixty for voting rights in sixty five, and

728
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 4: all those issues social issues, the Democratic Party with Republican

729
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 4: support in many cases Midwestern Republicans were very big on

730
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 4: civil rights. Certainly that's when we had a Northeastern Republican

731
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: party establishment party. And I think in all those issues

732
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 4: the Democrats did the right thing.

733
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 3: And even after Roe v.

734
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: Waite was a brilliant decision because I think even though

735
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 4: it was political and it wasn't really a court decision,

736
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,479
Speaker 4: it was a practical decision. The old joke was that

737
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court follows the elections, and they did what

738
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 4: makes sense, and viability made sense, and so we moved.

739
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 4: We've made a lot of decisions in terms of unemployment.

740
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 4: The Democratic Party has under Clinton bounced the budgets, which

741
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: I thought was important. Under Harry Truman bounced the budgets.

742
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 4: I think they've tried to do fiscally responsible stuff. They

743
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 4: have maintained at ignormous of costs Medicare and Medicare and

744
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 4: Social Security, which are incredibly difficult expensive. They have done

745
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: all those programs for retirees. I think they've been probably

746
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 4: in terms of homelessness, and reality is on the street,

747
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 4: not this the world you talk about, that world I

748
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 4: don't know anything about, but in the reality of the

749
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 4: streets where you walk in San Francisco and you see

750
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: the liberalism, it is liberalism.

751
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: It's not left wing liberal.

752
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 4: Attitudes towards people living in the streets, the graffiti actually

753
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 4: the dration of a lot of downtown San Francisco. I

754
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 4: think they've been probably too liberal, and I think if

755
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 4: you go any further in that direction, it's almost zany.

756
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 3: Now just a minute.

757
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: I'm getting to talk here because I live in the

758
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 4: real world where people like Gavin Newsom can get elected

759
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 4: and Jerry Brown can get elected four times, and people

760
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 4: that are modern Democrats, or you call them a neoliberals,

761
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: they are neoliberals because they're trying to do something. They're

762
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 4: not socialists. They don't believe in the government taking over things.

763
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 4: They know that at some point the government gets too

764
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 4: big and it's the problem, and they do it.

765
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: They don't believe in all these solutions advocating.

766
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: Thank god there is no Bernie Sanders running the country.

767
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: Think I know just because I want you've made your point.

768
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 4: I heard all the points. I heard them all my life,

769
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 4: and all those arguments.

770
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 3: Absolute defeat that.

771
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 4: You know places the real world, the real world I

772
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: know about. I have a couple of brothers who voted

773
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 4: for Trump this time, probably will again. I've got people

774
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 4: and relatives I will not even argue with because they

775
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 4: disagree with me. There's a lot more people on the

776
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 4: other side than from your side. I think that Trump

777
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 4: probably in the latest polling in Pennsylvania's one point ahead,

778
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 4: in Michigan's even Virginia's running even.

779
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 3: I think he's.

780
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 4: Probably going to pick up a couple of points in

781
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 4: the next few weeks. Yeah, because because every time the

782
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: courts go after Trump, every time the prosecutors go after Trump,

783
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 4: every time they go after Trump, and they are all

784
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 4: right in these cases, I believe completely right. His microphone

785
00:35:55,719 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 4: gets bigger, is louder, because if you attack somebody, they.

786
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 3: Have a right to respond. That's the key thing.

787
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 4: But America is if you're under attack for whatever reason,

788
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 4: you get to talk and you get a lot of opportunity.

789
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 4: So he's going to have I don't think I'll go

790
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 4: to this debate this week. I think he's probably gonna

791
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: wait outside. I may have been get arrested during that time.

792
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 4: He may do anything, but he's not gonna let their

793
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 4: Chris Christy grab the front page of the New York

794
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 4: Times away from him, because all will be is Christie

795
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 4: attack him.

796
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 3: And he's the liberal pin up boy.

797
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 4: Right now, You'll hear about a whole lot on the

798
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 4: MSNBC and CNN. You'll hear a lot of them because

799
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 4: he's a liberal pin up boy. He's their guy, and

800
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 4: they know he doesn't have a chance in the world

801
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 4: of beating Trump, just like Bernie Sanders does in the world.

802
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 3: She beat anybody, anybody that's not what the pole. No,

803
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 3: give me one. Just give me one now in real time.

804
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 3: I'm looking at it. You're not looking them up. Gill

805
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 3: me the poll. Now give me one poll. I'm just

806
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 3: challenging you in your basic guy. You have you have

807
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 3: the platform.

808
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: Clinton, you have the platform Keller Clinton was the electable one.

809
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: How did that go?

810
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 1: How does he do a beating Trump?

811
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: What is that? This is the this is called what about?

812
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: Is this?

813
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: You're making a case about who would have won? I

814
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: can tell you who didn't win. Hillary Clinton didn't win. Yeah, yeah,

815
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: and that was the person who at that time your networks.

816
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 3: This I was pushing.

817
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 4: I was pushing Clinton is a candidate. I like Shared Brown,

818
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 4: I like people like that. I like some people left

819
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 4: because they because they have an ability to talk to

820
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 4: people the way they live and not this this, this.

821
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 1: Performance, Jerney have some labor supporting.

822
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: I don't.

823
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 4: Look, you have a point of view, and you've run

824
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 4: to this table and I'm trying to defend against it.

825
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, monery course can win. The montery course

826
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 4: can win. And Biden, uh has made a lot of

827
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 4: compromises with ron Klain. He's certainly moved over to the left,

828
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 4: There's no doubt about it. He got rid of the

829
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 4: High AMENDMENTY tried to you're not going to get rid

830
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 4: of it. But these kinds of decisions, Uh, you know,

831
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 4: he was for bussing. Most people were against busting rather

832
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 4: and and he's had to pay for all these of

833
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 4: the past. I personally think it's it's it's a strange argument.

834
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 4: But I don't think you could win as a ward

835
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 4: leader anywhere. I think I think I think you've made that.

836
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: Clary, No, not just where where would you where would you?

837
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: Where would you want to be? The board? Where the

838
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 3: political boss. Where can you be a good blog boss?

839
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: Your point of view with.

840
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: My point of view? Where would you go with that

841
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: support populous economics?

842
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: Where? No, where, no, no, tell.

843
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 1: Me where you would want I'm not looking to be

844
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: a ward leader anywhere, Chrisma.

845
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 3: Where are you going to win? Where are you going

846
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 3: to win with this argument?

847
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 1: Well, obviously it hasn't won in a Democratic primary, especially

848
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: given the fact that you know, I think Democratic voters

849
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: are very concerned about electability, and I get that from

850
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: her perspective. But my view is the media really shaped

851
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 1: and informed those Democratic primary voters of who was actually

852
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: electable and who wasn't, and that the evidence that was.

853
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 4: Let me just say, if I had if I had

854
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 4: fielded this kind of power in my role for twenty

855
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 4: six years, I would have felt it.

856
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 3: I never felt it.

857
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 4: I felt I was up against the left and I

858
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 4: had to argue with them. I felt I had to

859
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 4: take I had to challenge people like Hillary included. I

860
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 4: think the uh, the idea that that Hillary was too

861
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 4: conservative for the country is ridiculous.

862
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 3: There was a lot going on with the idea that

863
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 3: he talked about ability.

864
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no, that context Hillary's very likeablee person.

865
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: Okay, but how did the American people feel about it?

866
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: How they feel about how they react to her?

867
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, they obviously they went more vote for her than

868
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,919
Speaker 4: for him, but he won the electoral college, right, Yes,

869
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 4: And how could that happen in a world where Bernie

870
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 4: rises supreme?

871
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 2: We don't have to litigate Bie.

872
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you say Bernie to a similar populist

873
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: anger and backlash against the forty year neoliberal consensus that

874
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: brought US wars and bad trade deals and hollow down

875
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 1: a good portion of the country.

876
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 3: So I think I think there are absolutely different.

877
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: Absolutely, listen, it's a counterfactual. We'll never know.

878
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 4: Asked Bertie Bernie's farm policy, ask about the world he

879
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 4: sees it thankfully different.

880
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,479
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. We really appreciate your time.

881
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: We weren't trying to really.

882
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: I think I think we've learned more about your point

883
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:19,959
Speaker 3: of view than mine.

884
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: Oh, people know my point of view, but it's just.

885
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 3: It's just doesn't it doesn't sink with anything.

886
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 4: I've been involved in politics, and I can tell you

887
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: that the Bernie argument, he's a likable guy. I don't

888
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 4: see the country outside of Nevada and those primary voters

889
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 4: voting for him.

890
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: Nevada is a working class.

891
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: I think you've made your position very clear and we

892
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: appreciate your time.

893
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you have.

894
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 4: We talked about in the world today about democracy and

895
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 4: the situation we face today, and I think that's been

896
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 4: a problem because that's the biggest thing I want to

897
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 4: talk about.

898
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:55,720
Speaker 3: I thought lead item.

899
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 4: I think that in terms of world politics, the way

900
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 4: we live, the way we elect people, who gets its votes.

901
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: I think that.

902
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 4: It's a fact that, starting with the age of television,

903
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 4: which we talked about, yeah, that people who lost presidential

904
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 4: elections said, so on television, what do you mean they

905
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 4: conceded defeat.

906
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: Oh?

907
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 4: Yes, they considered to be within with the real time,

908
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 4: even Jack Kennedy and Nixon, because Nixon said, as the

909
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 4: conditions go now it looks like the continues of this course,

910
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 4: Kennedy will be the next president, and then the vision

911
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 4: to statement. The next morning, Kennedy made a point of

912
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 4: meeting with Nixon down.

913
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: In Florida so that it would be very clear he lost.

914
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 4: And Al Gore had to do this and Hillary Clinton

915
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 4: had to do this, and they all did it. Even

916
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 4: though Hillary Clinton was very unhappy. She was shocked by

917
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 4: her defeat, and I was in the hotel with her

918
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 4: that morning, and they all did it. They stood up,

919
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 4: They had guts, and not to be is patriotic support

920
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 4: of our country.

921
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 3: It's not left wing or right wing.

922
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 4: It's believe in how who you run our elections, and

923
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,320
Speaker 4: we do base them on who wins the electric College

924
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:00,959
Speaker 4: and how it worked, and.

925
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: That's how we do it.

926
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 4: And all this other stuff about theories and what else

927
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: could be done and how it could be a different world.

928
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 4: It's not reality. It's not the world where we live in.

929
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 4: It's not our constitutional basis for our country. We live

930
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 4: with a constitution with the most people voting the way

931
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 4: they vote. They may be middle class, they may have

932
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 4: They may like corporate memes.

933
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: They may even like M and ms.

934
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 4: They may like weedies, they may they don't hate corporations.

935
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 4: Can be when I get up in the morn and

936
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 4: say I hate corporations.

937
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 3: They don't they about They don't get it. They don't

938
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 3: get up and worry about it.

939
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 4: That's not what they think about. They're not on the left.

940
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: They're not on the left. They're just not there. But

941
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 3: they were not on the left.

942
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: They worry about being able to pay the bills, not

943
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: just left right, and so people are pissed off that

944
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: stuff costs too much.

945
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 4: The word right, you know, of course I've said that

946
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 4: from the beginning.

947
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 2: Again, it's all the question.

948
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 4: Of trying to make things into a big ideological snowball.

949
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 4: It's not going to be Bernie's never going to be

950
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: elected to anything like president.

951
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 3: It's not going to.

952
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 2: He's doing anything at all.

953
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 3: It's not me.

954
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: It's this thinking. That's the government thinking of it. All

955
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 4: you have to do is hard left and everything is

956
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 4: going to be fine. Democratic Party went hard left.

957
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 3: He went nowhere. And there's one way.

958
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: I think it's about delivering socialism.

959
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 3: I don't want to live in a country so.

960
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: Bad that it goes social I think it's about it's

961
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: delivering You go back to the same problem.

962
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: It's holistic. Look at what driving up prices does the people.

963
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 4: When you do what you want to do and you

964
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 4: keep spending money at the government level. Federal government spending

965
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 4: is what you're talking about.

966
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 3: That's really what.

967
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 1: You're talking about, a delivering for people.

968
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 4: No, No, that's another way of saying government spending.

969
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to mean that because it does everything.

970
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 3: You said was all these all these programs you talked.

971
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: About, Think about just healthcare, all the.

972
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 3: COVID programs for spending programs.

973
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: Spend on healthcare as a country more than any other

974
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: country in the whole world. Is just a question of

975
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: who is spending that money? Do you think we're doing

976
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: a good job with health giving? The nihilism is very

977
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: depressing of like, this is just how it is and

978
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 1: we have to accept it. So I personally, I personally

979
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 1: believe that politics is downstream of how people are doing

980
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: in terms of their economics. Now you and I are

981
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: just going to agree to disagree about how this all

982
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: works out and exactly the inflation.

983
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 3: I think.

984
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 4: I think this argument is fine democratic primary, and we'll

985
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 4: see who wins.

986
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: That's all you We've already we've already seen it. Like

987
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: I said, your side one, Chris, I appreciate it's.

988
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:26,959
Speaker 3: Not my side.

989
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,720
Speaker 4: My side is probably to the right of Biden. Okay,

990
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 4: probably to the right. It's more moderate. I think that

991
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,879
Speaker 4: people like must keep people like that over the years, and.

992
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: Said, you like Sharon Brown, who I would say is

993
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: to the left. But I want to thank you.

994
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 4: Because shared Brown and Tim and Tim Ryan know how

995
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 4: to talk to people. Yeah on their face, and they

996
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 4: don't go off as any professors or anything like that.

997
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 3: They're not arguing theory.

998
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: Focused on populist pocketbook economics, and that's something I score pocketbook.

999
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate the time.

1000
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 3: I appreciate.

1001
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 4: Keep your eye on elections because they decide things and

1002
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 4: they were in a proper constitutional world, they are the

1003
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 4: victors the people.

1004
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 3: The majority wins.

1005
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: We agree wh