1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick. And if you've been listening to 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: the show, you know we just had our friend Katie 6 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: Golden from Creature feature on. I think it was the 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: episode right before this one where we talked about teeth 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: with with Katie and that was a lot of fun. 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: But Robert, I couldn't stop thinking about teeth. Oh yeah, 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean, teeth are weird. Teeth are wonderful and strange 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: and grotesque. I was actually just at the dentist yesterday 12 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: for a checkup, and I just kept thinking about just 13 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: how weird it is that that I just regularly go 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: to this place and pay another human being to reach 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: into my mouth with special instruments and clean my weird 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: bone like jaw protutions the outside bones, outside bones. Never forget, 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: your teeth are outside bones. Their bones that you wash. 18 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: Oh that's that's from Kimmy Schmidt, right. Yeah. Titus Syndromedon 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: sings that song. I think he's auditioning for like a 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: chewing gum commercial. But he's actually wrong. I'm sorry to say, 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: despite how much I love that moment from the show, 22 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: teeth are not outside bones. They are not bones at all. 23 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: They're a totally different things. We can explain that in 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: a minute. But yeah, yeah, I mean, well, let's go 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: ahead and get into it. So, yeah, our teeth are 26 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: bone like in many respects. Uh yeah, but they are 27 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: not bones. So just for an example, bones are composed 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: of calcium, phosphorus, sodium, and other minerals. Uh And but 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: mostly it's the protein collagen that forms the living, growing 30 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: collagen framework in bones. Bones have impressive regenerative powers. You 31 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: break a bone, it can even like a really vicious 32 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: break of a bone, and it can heal back. Also, 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: bone marrow produces red and white blood cells. Teeth do 34 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: not have bone marrow. Instead, they have dental pulp. So teeth, 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: on the other hand, are you know, they're composed of calcium, 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: phosphorus and other minerals. They're harder than any bone that 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: we have in the body. Yeah, but they also lack 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: the regenerative powers of bones. So if you crack or 39 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: break a tooth, you're gonna need at least a root canal, 40 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: if not a total extraction. That is kind of strange, 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: that seems. I wonder what the the evolutionary reason for 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: that is. I would expect, you know, there would be 43 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: a strong pressure on the ability to regenerate teeth. Well, 44 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: it depends on how this really gets into like the 45 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: bigger questions of of biological mortality, right, like what do 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: you need your teeth for? How long are you going 47 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: to be a viable organism? How long do you need 48 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: to live, you know, in order to accomplish your genetic 49 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: mission of you know, reproduction, uh and so forth, and 50 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: and you know, the evolution isn't really concerned with long 51 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: term dental health beyond that point. Well maybe yeah, maybe 52 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: we don't need teeth because um, well for one thing, 53 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: we're not like sharks, right, we're not just like biting 54 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: indiscriminately into whole organisms and you know, cross bones and 55 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 1: stuff like that. We we tend to if we're eating 56 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: an animal, we kill it before we start biting into it. Uh, 57 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: So you know, you you would be able to have 58 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: the time to seek out the soft parts to bite into, 59 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: and so you're not using your teeth in a kind 60 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: of like violent, fast moving kind of way like a 61 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: lot of other organisms would yeah, and and it really 62 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: drives home one of the key and I guess kind 63 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: of obvious things that we're gonna we're gonna touch on 64 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: here and there is that as as organisms evolve, their 65 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: teeth are going to change to meet the demands of 66 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: their diet. And if if you're if you do not 67 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: need your robust teeth of old anymore, well, those those 68 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: teeth are going to change, and you're gonna end up 69 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: with a dental model that is going to be more 70 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: in keeping with what you're actually going to use your 71 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: choppers for. It's funny. You could think of teeth in 72 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: a way as a form of convergent evolution. So like 73 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: the same way that you see uh wings evolving independently 74 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: in different lines of animals. It's not that everything on 75 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: Earth that has wings evolved from a common winged ancestor. 76 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: So wings arose in one case in insects, and then 77 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: they separately arose in you know, mammals, They rose in 78 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: bats and stuff, and then they separately arose in the 79 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: dinosaurs that became birds, and then also in the other 80 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 1: the flying reptiles, right, which are not dinosaurs, but also 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: independently evolved wings. Uh. So, so you see winged flight 82 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: evolving over and over despite the fact that all these 83 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: organisms don't come from wings of a common ancestor organism 84 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: that I mean, I guess if you go far back enough, 85 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: they all do have a common ancestor, but it didn't 86 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: have wings. Um. And you can see a kind of 87 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: similar thing in different things we call teeth. That you know, 88 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: lots of organisms have an opening of the alimentary track, 89 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: They've got a mouth of some kind or another, and 90 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: it it just often happens to be the case that 91 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: organisms evolved of a need to mash and crush and 92 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: cut things that are going into the front of the 93 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: elementary tract. And that's how you get these different evolutions 94 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: of things that are like teeth. Uh. And there there 95 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: are a lot of different things you might call teeth, 96 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: and not all are evolutionarily related to the calcified structures 97 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: we see in animals like ourselves. In fact, one great 98 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: example of of a whole different kind of of tooth 99 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: world that I was thinking about just recently is uh. 100 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: It reminds me of this controversy over the mouth of 101 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: a Cambrian predator that I I have been calling Anomala 102 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: carus or Anomala carress. I just found out that some 103 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: people pronounce it anomalacrous, and now now I feel like 104 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: my whole world has been turned on its head. I 105 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: don't know which to say, but I think I'm gonna 106 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: keep saying Anomala carress even if that's wrong, for the 107 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: sake of consistency. This is this is basically, if you've 108 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: ever been to a natural history museum, you've probably seen 109 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: a representation of this. Uh this this pretty historic fish. Yeah, 110 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: I mean, well not a fish, well organism and the 111 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: this long predating fish. So the Cambrian period, of course, 112 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's roughly five hundred million years ago. It's 113 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 1: the first time in the history and the fossil record 114 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,479 Speaker 1: of Earth where we suddenly see this explosion and diversity 115 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: of animal body forms. You know, before this, there were animals, 116 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: and most of them had soft bodies and leave very 117 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: little records. But there were things like worms of various 118 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: kinds um. But but then suddenly around the Cambrian period, 119 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: you see all these different life forms emerging, and a 120 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: lot of the life forms have hard shells. This is 121 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: where you see the explosion of trialobytes. It sometimes thought 122 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: of as the age of trialobytes, which are these scuttling 123 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, almost like insect or crab like creatures that 124 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: would move along the bottom of ocean floors and have 125 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: these hard shells on their backs. But Anomala keras or 126 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: anomal ochrous appears to have been the top predator or 127 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: one of the top predators of the Cambrian period, which 128 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: was and it was this lobed swimming predator that grew 129 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: up to about six ft long. And when the fossils 130 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: of Anomala Carras were first discovered, paleontologists thought that they 131 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: were actually looking at two different species because it's a 132 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: mostly soft bodied organism, so its entire body usually doesn't 133 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: get preserved or doesn't get preserved very well. And since 134 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: most of their bodies are these soft parts that don't 135 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: get fossilized, usually there were really only two parts of 136 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: the body that paleontologists kept finding. These two parts were, 137 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: first of all, these little pairs of shrimp looking things 138 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: that they would come in pairs, and they would kind 139 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: of have these curved shapes and they, I mean, they 140 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: looked like shrimp shells, that's the best way to put it. 141 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: And that's actually where the name of Anomala carus comes from. 142 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: Uh Anomla carus. I mean, you know, anomaly in cars 143 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: means weird shrimp, usual unusual shrimp. So you have these 144 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: pairs of shrimps, and then the other part that they 145 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 1: would often find would be these circular rings of hard 146 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: looking plates. Now the shrimp looking things, we actually we 147 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: actually figured out that these two different things actually were 148 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: different parts of the same organism, this Cambrian predator, and 149 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: so the shrimp looking things, it turned out, were curly 150 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: we think, feeding tentacles that were on the underside of 151 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: the head. So you'd see this thing swimming along. It's 152 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: got the eyes in the front, and then sort of 153 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: as a mouth, it's got this like, you know, two 154 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: lobed mustache of shrimp tentacles that we think probably could 155 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: kind of like grab things and push them toward the 156 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: mouth parts. And then the mouth parts would be the 157 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: other part that gets fossilized. That ring of plates. That's 158 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: the mouth that's sort of halo of teeth, like a 159 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: tooth lined sphincter of death. I mean, really, that's all 160 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: a mouth is, is that it is the it is 161 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: the anti aanus it's the other the other side of 162 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: the organism. Yeah, just imagine like like an anus that's 163 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: just surrounded by a circle of teeth that moved in word. Right, 164 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,079 Speaker 1: And as we've discussed, we had we did a whole 165 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: at least one whole episode on the evolution of the anus, 166 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: and of course you didn't always have two openings in organisms. 167 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: You had organisms that had to depend on one um 168 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: orifice for both functions. Which is amazing that that we're 169 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: not saying that's the case with no, no, not at all. 170 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: We're just sort of demystifying the difference between the anus 171 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: and the mount. Actually, I don't know for sure whether 172 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: an Almala cars had an anus or not, but I'm 173 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: pretty sure it had an anus. I had to get 174 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: had some form of venus, right it had. I would 175 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: have to guess it had a one way digestive system, right, 176 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: I mean those we discussed in those episodes. There are 177 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: organisms that do not or come to not have an anus. 178 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes an organism in a certain phase of 179 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: its life no longer has to worry with defecating, or 180 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: has come to a situation where it cannot defecate anymore, 181 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: and we'll just have to live with it. Yeah, certain 182 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: varieties of scorpion that have lost their anus because their 183 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: anus was on what like a third or fourth segment 184 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: of their tail, which they jettison to escape a predict. 185 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: It's a very sad scorpion story. But to the Anomala 186 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: carus mouth, So from what I can tell, there's actually 187 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: still scientific disagreement about those mouth parts, about that sphincter 188 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: of death, about that ring of teeth pointing inward. So 189 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: it has long been assumed that Anomala Carus preyed on 190 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: trial bytes in one way or another. But how right? 191 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: Trial bytes have these really hard protective shells on their backs, 192 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 1: and some paleontologists thought, well, maybe the Anomala Carus would 193 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: eat them by attacking them right after molting when their 194 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: shells would have been soft, or maybe it would attack 195 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: them by like scooping them up with its little feeding shrimps, 196 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: the feeding tentacles, and then cracking or prying off the 197 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: shell somehow with those rings of plate like teeth in 198 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: the mouth. But I've read criticisms of this model coming 199 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: from the last decade or so, basically saying that some 200 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: current models of the Anomala carus mouth show that it 201 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: just would not have been wrong enough to crack through 202 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: trialobyte shells, and maybe maybe it had to feed on 203 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: soft bodied organisms like jellyfish or worms instead. I don't 204 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: know if the idea of eating trio bytes right after 205 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: molting would get around this problem. It might or it 206 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: might not. Um So, did the Anomala cars actually have 207 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: this this crushing sphincter of deadly teeth or not? I don't. 208 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: I don't know if we know the answer to this 209 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: right now. This seems like a still open question. I mean, 210 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: obviously it did have these plates, it did have these 211 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: mouth parts, but we don't know how strong its mouth was. Yeah, 212 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: it is just so weird to look at a representation 213 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: of these because it's like it's it's the it's the 214 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: sphincter of death, like you said, but it's also this feeling. 215 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: It's that it's like a teeth. It's like teeth made 216 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: of broken glass. Uh, It's it's very strange to to 217 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: look at. Yeah, it was originally thought when people found 218 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: the mouth parts in isolation, so you'd just be this 219 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: ring of plates and they didn't know it was the 220 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: same organism as the pair of weird shrimps. They I 221 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: think originally thought this might have been some part of 222 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: a like weird old jellyfish. All right, on that note, 223 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break, but when we 224 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: come back, we will continue to explore, to explore the 225 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: weird wide world of teeth. So another thing, uh, you know, 226 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: we were saying, of course again that teeth are not 227 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: outside bones. As great as the song is, they're not 228 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: bones at all. They're these hardened structures. And one question 229 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: is where do teeth come from? Like what is their 230 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: evolutionary history as we know them? And the current evidence 231 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: indicates that the earliest known teeth evolved and I guess 232 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: this would be different than like the Cambrian sort of mouthplates. 233 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: This would be like teeth in jawed animals. You know, Uh, 234 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: the earliest known teeth evolved not as adapted bones, because 235 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: that's where you sort of think, right, you think, well, 236 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, you had some bone structures and over time 237 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: those evolved into tooth like shapes, so rights of the 238 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: bones would be coming out of the jaw and doing that. 239 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: But actually it looks like the earliest teeth evolved and 240 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: not as adapted bones, but as adapted fish scales. I 241 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: was looking at a paper from Biology Letters in by 242 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: Martin Rookline and Philip C. J. Donohue called roman Dina 243 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: and the Evolutionary Origin of Teeth basically finds evidence from 244 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: a species called roman Dina stalina, which is an extinct plaqueoderm, 245 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: and a plaque aderm is a type of armor plated 246 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: ancestral fish from more than four hundred million years ago. 247 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: One plaque aderm you've probably seen fossils of before, is 248 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: the awesome, the terrifying dunkle Osteus. This is another superstar 249 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: of a sort of a prehistoric creature exhibits and museums. Yeah, 250 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: you look up a dunkle osteous cast or a dunkle 251 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: Osteus skull. I mean it's chomp city just unbelievable, and 252 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: they got huge. Imagine this gigantic fish with this chomp 253 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: city head. It is definitely something out of a movie. 254 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, like why we keep making all these 255 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: shark tack movies. They need to make a movie about this. 256 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: You can caught Dunkles, like a monster would be just 257 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,359 Speaker 1: named Dunkles, I like it, or just dunks dunks Dunks 258 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: dunk Dunks, dunk Dunks dunk dunks I'm sorry, okay, but anyway, 259 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: in the study X ray analysis of fossil remains of 260 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: this fish, again, this is not dunkle Osteus, this is 261 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: a different plaque. DRM Roman Dina Stalina showed that scales 262 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: evolved first the fish. Scales evolved first, and then teeth 263 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: evolved in this line of fish as an adapted type 264 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: of scale cell along a structure called the toothplate. And 265 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: isn't it weird how scales became so many different things 266 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: like bird feathers evolutionarily are adapted from ancestral reptile scales. 267 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: Scales over time grew into these these filaments and things 268 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: that eventually became feathers. But it's also thought that mammal 269 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: fur and mammal hair are adapted from scales of a 270 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: common ancestor. Well, I mean they've they've had time, right, 271 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: That's that's one way to look at it. And it 272 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: seems like teeth or another example here in these fish 273 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: from four million years ago, it looks like teeth are 274 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: coming out of the adaptation of scale cells. Now as 275 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 1: we uh, you know, we're gonna go ahead and jump 276 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: the time machine and go, you know, go go go 277 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: forward in time here, and you know, it's easy to 278 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: sort of fall into the trap of thinking, okay, certainly, 279 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: especially when we get into mammal teeth, we're basically talking 280 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: about the same scenario in any given organism, right, I mean, yes, 281 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: you're your dog's teeth don't look quite like human teeth, 282 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: but there are a lot of parallels. A cow's teeth 283 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: don't look exactly like a dog's teeth, but there are 284 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: a lot of parallels, you know. But then again, as 285 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: we know from our conversation with Katie, I mean, beaver 286 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: teeth just chuck the boat over, right, And another one 287 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: that really checks the boat over are the are the 288 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: teeth of elephants. And they're extinct ken um, because when 289 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: when you look at an elephant or a mastodon or 290 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: a mammoth, first of all, they're polyphiodonts rather than uh, diffidants, 291 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: meaning that they're psych They cycle through teeth their entire 292 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: life rather than depending on a mere two sets of teeth, 293 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: So more kind of like sharks to an extent. Basically, 294 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 1: like with a human, you have you have two sets. 295 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: You got that first set, those baby teeth, and you 296 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: get those adults set. Uh, the adult teeth, and you've 297 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: got to make that adult set last because those are 298 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: the ones that are supposed to take you to the grave. Uh. 299 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: With the elephant is a different scenario. There's still a 300 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: limited number of teeth. It's not just teeth forever, but 301 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: it's it's but it's also just a totally different um 302 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: like way that they grow. So you have long ridges 303 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: of teeth that move not from bottom to top, you know, 304 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: like when when you think of like a a child, 305 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: a young child about their their their they lose their 306 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: baby teeth and than those adult teeth grow up out 307 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: of the job like down down in the jaw and 308 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: then they load up to the yeah or or down 309 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: or you know, they come down and they come up 310 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: out of the jaw right. Well, it's great to see 311 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: those like cross sections of the jawbone that the baby 312 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: teeth still in there is disgusting. It's like, how could 313 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: you ever look at a child the same way again? 314 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: But with elephants, you have long ridges of teeth that 315 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: move from back to front along upper and lower in jaws, lowly, 316 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: slowly wearing into a shelf at the front as the 317 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: roots are absorbed. So segments of the warranteeth in these 318 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: teeth are are oblong looking things too, So basically they 319 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: just move out of the back of the jaw along 320 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: to the front of the jaw and then they break 321 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: off in sections, sort of like a pez dispenser or 322 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 1: one way I like to think of it. It's it's 323 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: kind of like a toblarown bar. Each elephant tooth or 324 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: masted on tooth is a tobleroom bar that gets worn 325 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: down and as it reaches the front, segments of that 326 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: toblar room bar just fall out, and then in the 327 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: back of the jaw, fresh teeth are growing out, uh, 328 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, growing out of roughly the same place you know, 329 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: where your wisdom teeth would be located. So this alone 330 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: is crazy. You know, most animals have vertically grown choppers, 331 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: but elephants and the kin of elephants essentially have six 332 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: sets of molars that that replace over time. So basically 333 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: the way the cycle goes is that, uh, they have 334 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: you know, one set of molars at birth um and 335 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: they keep those for about they lose those after two years, 336 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: then they get a second set, lose those at six years, 337 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: and they get a third set of fourth set of 338 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: fifth set in a sixth set, and then the in 339 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: rare circumstances they will get a seventh set of molars 340 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: that come out of the back. But then that's how 341 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: you know you're dealing with like a real silver back. 342 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 1: Like well, it's actually one way that the scientists are 343 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: able to age the remains of elephants, Like you find 344 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: the remains of the jaw, and you can look and 345 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: you can see you can learn a lot from it. 346 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: If it's a different type of elephant ken you know 347 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: it's amathur massed on, you can you can study exactly 348 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: what kind of foods it was eating based on what 349 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: those teeth looked like. But then if it's a particularly 350 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: old elephant, um, well, look, I'll say first let's say 351 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: it was a you know, an adult elephant that wasn't 352 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: too old. Then you would see like the worn teeth, 353 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: and then you would see in the back where fresh 354 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: teeth were growing out. But then in the an older 355 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: adult elephant, it's on its last set, the hole in 356 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: the back of the jaw, back on each side of 357 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: the jaw would be closed. It has just become solid 358 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: bone again because it is on its last set of teeth, 359 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,959 Speaker 1: and those are the teeth that are going to take 360 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: it to the grave. I can't remember if you already 361 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 1: said this or the teeth. Is it born with all 362 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: these teeth already there? Or do the teeth like generate 363 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: over time they generate? Okay, yeah, they're not already loaded 364 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: back there? Um, so these are also these are known 365 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: as high it's known as hind molar progression, also known 366 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: as marching molars, which I particularly like that one because 367 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: there's this idea that they're marching from the back of 368 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: the jaw towards the front and the main other extent 369 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: creatures that have these are the manatees, which I'll get 370 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: back to in a bed. And interestingly enough, the manatees 371 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: have them, but the doo gong, the relative of the manatee, 372 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: does not. Kangaroo molars also apparently work in this fashion. Um. 373 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: But but then other creatures like you. You might look 374 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 1: to the rock higher ax, which is the elephants rodent 375 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: like relative. But even though it has some elephant like 376 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: qualities to its uh to its teeth, including two rodent 377 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: like front teeth, are actually tiny tusks, it doesn't have 378 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: marching molars. Um. But uh I mentioned already how the 379 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: elephant molars are also elongated. Uh they they They're really 380 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: crazy to look at because it looks like fused teeth 381 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: in a sense. It's it's like a big long chunk 382 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: of teeth and it's essentially it has enamel loops for 383 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: grinding plant matter. So that's what the elephants using these for. 384 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: It's just minding top to molars against bottom molars and 385 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: uh and that is of course wearing the teeth down 386 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: as well, thus the need to continually replace them. Right, 387 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: the elephant is herbivore. It's gonna be eating rough plant matters, 388 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: so it needs sort of a mortal mortar and pestle 389 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: in the mouth to to mash it up real good. Yeah. 390 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: But again, when the when the teeth are done, that's it. 391 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: And this is going to lead in the wild especially, 392 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: is going to lead to malnutrition and or starvation. So 393 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: I encourage everyone to think about elephant teeth the next 394 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: time you see an elephant. Certainly if you have the 395 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: chance to see one in the wild, but if you 396 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,719 Speaker 1: see one in a zoo or what have you, like 397 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: it's teeth or just or as amazing as any other 398 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: amazing quality of the elephant, like yes, it's trunk is 399 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: a is a is a marvel of the natural world. 400 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: But also its teeth are just so super weird. Yeah, 401 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: this high capacity magazine of molars. Yeah, it is. It's 402 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: like a magazine, a pez dispenser of teeth um, And 403 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: it's just it's just not what you come to expect 404 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: from teeth in general. Like you know, even even a 405 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: sharp right it continually grows those teeth, but they're growing 406 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: out of sort of flipping out of the jaw top 407 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: and bottom. But the the elephant has a different system entirely. Now, 408 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: what is the deal with tusks since we're talking about elephants, 409 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: because we talked with Katie and we've talked on the 410 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: show before about the idea of narwhal tusks. How the 411 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: narwhal tusks are not like modified bones, they are teeth, 412 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: you know, their teeth jutting up just straight forward, straight 413 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: out of the mouth. Yeah, they're they're modified incisors. Is 414 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: the deal? Oh? Even an elephants? Yeah wow yeah, so 415 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: um so Yeah, it's easy to sort of look at 416 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: tusks and even if you know they're not horns, you 417 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: kind of like think of them. You kind of categorize 418 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: them in the same in the same area. So, yeah, 419 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: elephants are are weird wonderful creatures, uh that we've we've 420 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: been looking at them so long. There's such a famous 421 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: animal we can you know, they're in our story books 422 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: as as as children, they're in our animated films. You 423 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: kind of forget how weirdly alien they are in many 424 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: many regards. Is it weird that I'm just imagining now 425 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 1: what it would be like to get bitten by an elephant? 426 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. I keep thinking trying to imagine what 427 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: that would be like to have um marching molars, to 428 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: have that kind of dental situation. And granted we wouldn't 429 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: because we do not need to have that for our diet, 430 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: but if we did, Like, can you imagine your teeth 431 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: growing in from the back and then they like breaking 432 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: off in the front. Also, they're soft foods. Yeah, all right, 433 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: let's take one more break and we come back. I 434 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: want to talk just a little bit about manatee teeth. Okay, alright, 435 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: we're back. So we've talked about manatees on the show before. 436 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: Um mana teach me something, Robert Well. Manatees are of 437 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: course marine mammals, and they are Serenians. Uh, they have 438 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: a few living kid that will get to oh SERENI. 439 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: So are they named after the sirens exactly? Yeah, tying 440 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: into the whole, you know, mistaking manatees from mermaid thing. Now, 441 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: their closest living relatives are the elephants, and they're kind 442 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: of like the elephants of the sea in some respects, 443 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, drifting through the waters, feasting on vegetation. There 444 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: are three extant varieties of manatees. There's the Amazonian manateee, 445 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,239 Speaker 1: the West Indian manateee in the West African manateee, and 446 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: all of them have marching molars, much like the elephants. 447 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: But then I was reading around a little bit of 448 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: this about this, and there's a there's another variety of 449 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: Serenian that went extinct in the eighteen hundreds, and this 450 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: was Stellar's sea cow. Now it apparently, uh, this was 451 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: a Serenian that already had a rather narrow habitat. It 452 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: was already like you could make the argument, I think 453 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: that was already kind of endangered before human activity really 454 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: put the nail in the casket here. But it actually 455 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: didn't have true teeth. It had instead what has been 456 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: described as broad horny pads that it used to chew 457 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,159 Speaker 1: the soft parts of kelp, which made up most of 458 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: its diet. And this leads us to the other existing 459 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 1: Serenian and that's the eastern hemiphere hemispheres doo gong, which 460 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: looks very similar to a manatee, but is that it 461 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: has a shorter snout, which kind of you often see 462 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: it in pictures. It looks like a vacuum cleaner because 463 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: it's essentially what it is. It's cleaning, it's it's eating 464 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: off the bottom. Uh. And it also has a flute 465 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: tail that looks much like a whale um. But then 466 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: you really have to think about its teeth, so it 467 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: has no marching molars. It does not have the marching 468 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: molars of a manatee. Uh. They also have incisors, which 469 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: are essentially a little tusks, which manatees are lacking. But 470 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: the thing about doo gongs is that they also have 471 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 1: horny pads in their mouths for chewing, and they're more 472 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: important than their actual teeth. The cheek teeth are almost 473 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: a non functioning and um and are not very tough 474 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: to begin with. So I was reading a few different 475 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: papers about them from J. M. Lanyon and G. D. 476 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: Sanson in the Journal of Zoology, and they point out 477 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: that regarding doo gongs, quote, the soft mouth parts of 478 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: the doo gong are highly modified so that the entire 479 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: oral cavity functions to crush low fiber sea grasses. Thus, 480 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: the doo gong has developed an efficient method of food ingestion, 481 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: and mastication that is suited to out processing large quantities 482 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: of soft sea grass during short dive times. The potential 483 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: cost to the doo gong and having lost its hard 484 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: dental surfaces is that it has become restricted to a 485 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: low fiber diet. So this is interesting. The doo gong 486 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: eats mostly sea grass, while manatees, who again have these 487 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: more robust teeth and have these marching molars, they eat 488 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,719 Speaker 1: roughly sixty different varieties of fresh and salt water plants. Um. 489 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: I've I've read that the difference in the snout also 490 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: means that manatees can sort of reach out a little 491 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: bit because they just have a more vary diet. UM. 492 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: Manatees have also been observed to occasionally eat fish from nets, 493 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: So you know, we generally think of them as herbivores, 494 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: and you know, for the most part they are. But 495 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: it seems like if they have the chance to eat 496 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: a fish out of a net, uh, they will do so. 497 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,920 Speaker 1: And so you got another example of opportunistic carnivory. Yeah. Meanwhile, 498 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: the doo gong is apparently not engaging in this in 499 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: this behavior that we know of, So that would mean 500 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: that the doo gong is really the only true marine 501 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: herbivore mammal in the world, the only marine herbivore mammal. Wow. 502 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: So I guess I'm trying to think of counter examples, 503 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: but I can't because you know what I it is. 504 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: I think of a lot of like filter feeding whales 505 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: as herbivores, and they're not. They're eating you know, microscopic animal. 506 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: They're carnivores. Yeah, we we we We don't think of 507 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: them as such because they're not trying to eat us. 508 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: I mean, uh, you know, whale myths aside, the animals 509 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: they eat are very small. It's like, are you a 510 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: carnivore if you only popcorn shrimp? Some people might not 511 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,439 Speaker 1: think so, but but I love I love this As 512 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: a kind of a closing example to look at, this 513 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: is the you know, the doo gong, the manatee, and 514 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: Stellar Sea cow as being examples just within the Sirenian 515 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: world of how teeth change with diet and how you 516 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: can have kind of, you know, rapidly different like the 517 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: idea you have marching molars in the manatee and Stellar's 518 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: sea cow didn't have teeth at all, and then the 519 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: doo gong is kind of in this place in between 520 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: the two. I just find that fascinating. And and again, 521 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: any any chance I have to explain how cool manatees are, 522 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 1: I've got to take it, because manatees are just amazing 523 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: creatures and if you have the chance to see some 524 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: in the wild, you should definitely do so. I got 525 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: to see some just the other week. I was down 526 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: at Done in Florida at what is it Wakula or 527 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: I've also heard Waccola Springs. Got to see multiple manatees 528 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: and baby manatees. It was breath thick. Now, the same 529 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: way that the manatee and the doo goong may have 530 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: inspired the legends of the Mermaid, did the manatees of 531 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: w Coola Springs inspire the creature of the Black Lagoon, 532 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: the creature from the Black They did film some some 533 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: scenes there, um mainly like the you know, just the 534 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: swamp footage is the stuff that they filmed there at 535 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: the springs. Yeah, but they weren't you telling me, like 536 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: they can't do licensed stuff, like they can't actually have 537 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: creature materials. They were at least I think maybe maybe 538 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: they're not willing, you know, they're not willing or able 539 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: to pay out for the licensing fees. I'm not privy 540 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: to the details, so I just know that a few 541 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: years ago they had some creature memorabilia there and now 542 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: there's not any. But they were showing Creature from the 543 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: Black Lagoon one evening in the lobby, and so that 544 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: was kind of cool to have gone out on the 545 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: swamp during the day and then at night like to 546 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: see this old movie and see these scenes from it, 547 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, well, there you go. I went 548 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: by there in a boat just several hours ago. I 549 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,479 Speaker 1: think we've established on this show that we're firmly on 550 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: the side of the creature in the Creature from the 551 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: Black Lagoon, and that the heroes are awful. Yes, there's 552 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: the alleged scientists in that in that show. Are are 553 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: are awful, there's a life form shoot it. Luckily those 554 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: are not the scientists that are involved in taking care 555 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: of manatees today. Hey, folks, if we suddenly sound different, 556 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: we just jumped into another space and time. So here 557 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,479 Speaker 1: we are again. I just wanted to close out with 558 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: another quick grab bag of teeth related stuff that I 559 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: couldn't stop thinking about. Robert. You remember at the end 560 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: of our episode with Katie where goose teeth came up, right, Yeah, so, 561 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: of course, um, geese can sometimes I didn't mean to 562 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: demonize geese by the way, when talking to Katie, but 563 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: geese can be surprisingly aggressive. I think we don't usually 564 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 1: worry about birds getting territorial and attacking us, but if 565 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: you get too close to a goose nest, you're you're 566 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: asking for trouble. Right, Yeah, they're they're more fierce than 567 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: we sometimes realize. They're also a little smarter than we 568 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: sometimes realize. Like there's certainly no no Corvid's, but there 569 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: have been some interesting studies that have put them to 570 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: the test with the various tasks, and they can actually 571 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: perform well. Yeah, and so I think in that episode 572 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: with Katie, we actually talked a little bit about goose teeth. Now, 573 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: goose don't actually have biological teeth with denton and enamel. 574 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: But if you have not seen an image of the 575 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: serrated edges of death writhing like the dead lights inside 576 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: a goose mouth, you have got to go search for 577 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: this right now. It's an image that you must see. 578 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: They're a bunch of them all over the internet. Uh, Robert, 579 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: I added one to your notes. But oh, you might 580 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: not have your notes right in front of you, do 581 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: you do? Well, it's just got knives in the mouth 582 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: basically along the edge of the so basically like the 583 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: tongue and the beak are both covered in these fierce 584 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: jagged sawtooth spines around the lateral edges and um. The 585 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: most recent evidence indicates that existing birds to send from 586 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: ancestors that lost their teeth in a multi stage process 587 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: that took place roughly between I think about one hundred 588 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: sixteen one hundred one million years ago. UM. So if 589 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: you're out there listener asking, wait a minute, lost their teeth? 590 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: Birds lost their teeth? Yes, Because, as we've talked about, 591 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: plenty of times, birds evolve from dinosaurs that definitely had teeth. 592 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: Arcosaurs archaeopterics had teeth, and it appears that this period, 593 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: around a hundred million years ago, they acquired gene mutations 594 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: that changed a couple of things. They change jaw development 595 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: to stop the development of teeth as as they matured, 596 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: and to cause the development of beaks instead. And one 597 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: consequence of this knowledge is that if we can suppress 598 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: the molecular pathways for the gene that suppresses the growth 599 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: of teeth in birds, you know, the gene that turns 600 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: off tooth development. You you turn off the turn off there, 601 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: we can sort of create birds with teeth again. And 602 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: in fact, a group of researchers actually did this and 603 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: and publish their findings in Current Biology way back in 604 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: two thousand six. You've probably I bet this has come 605 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: up on the show before, at at least maybe a 606 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: while ago, right, the transfer rowing of chickens into tiny dinosaurs. Yeah, 607 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: they already are tiny dinosaurs they respect, but they are 608 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: very much tyrannosaurss. But in this case, I think the 609 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: resemblance is slightly less to the therapod dinosaurs and more 610 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: to crocodilians because when they made a couple of genetic 611 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: tweaks or epigenetic tweaks to embryonic chickens. The embryos grew 612 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: teeth that resembled the conical teeth you would see in 613 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: the mouth of an alligator or crocodile, indicating that these 614 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: were probably pretty similar to the teeth of ancestral birds 615 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: more than a hundred million years ago. So the goose 616 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: does not have true teeth. But I wonder if you 617 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: could crisper up like a really awful fanged crocodile goose 618 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: from the deep past. I bet that could be done, 619 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: though I don't know if it would survive development with 620 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: the mutation. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. But but 621 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: I do love this example because it kind of goes 622 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 1: back to what we're exploring with the Syreneans, that if 623 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 1: if teeth are no longer needed, if they are no 624 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: longer the best means of masticating food food or or 625 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 1: or helping to you know, to aid in the ingestion 626 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: of food, they're not going to stay around forever. I mean, 627 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: they're they're they're like anything in the body there, they 628 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: are a costly investment. Yeah, this is one of the 629 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: things that that we often fail to remember when we 630 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: think about evolution without taking like energy and development concerns 631 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: in mind, we think of evolution primarily as a process 632 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: of addition. But what episode was it just recently on 633 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: the show where we talked about a lot of subtraction evolution. Oh, 634 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: I think it was in the one about the phrase 635 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: survival of the fittest. Yeah, and what that it tends 636 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: to imply to people who you know, uh, if you 637 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: haven't thought about it all that deeply, One thing is 638 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: that you get this sort of vague impression that maybe 639 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: it always works by like adding new powers and not 640 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: by just subtracting things that are useless expenses. Right. And 641 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,760 Speaker 1: and we also, yeah, I think discussed as we've discussed 642 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: before that this whole idea of something devolving. You know, 643 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: it's like no evolution. Uh, you can go in either direction. 644 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: So if you say your views on the topic have evolved, 645 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 1: it's not necessarily a good thing. Right. It's like if 646 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: you're your HR department tells you that your benefits are evolving, 647 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: not necessarily a good thing, right, Um, ask more questions 648 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: to find out exactly what's going on. Well, yeah, but 649 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there is no devolving. It's all evolving. 650 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: So some evolving and you might like and some evolving 651 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: you might not like who knows, I mean, maybe we 652 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: could evolve brains that just feel excruciating pain every moment 653 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: of the day for no good reason at all. It 654 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: just happens to work that way. Um. But another an 655 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: interesting evolutionary question is why did birds lose their teeth? 656 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: And this is an unsolved problem. We don't have a 657 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: good answer of exactly what the evolutionary pressure driving the 658 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: switch from teeth to beaks was. Uh the answer. So 659 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: one historical hypothesis I've read about is that it helped 660 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: birds lighten their bodies to optimize flight dynamics. But I've 661 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 1: also read opinions that's not a very good explanation because 662 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, we see tons of flying animals with teeth. 663 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: Teeth don't necessarily wigh a whole lot. That seems like 664 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: that's probably not a very good candidate for explaining it. 665 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: So we don't fully know the answer. I mean, one 666 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: would assume it would you would come down to diet 667 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: one way or another. But yeah, you would think so. 668 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: I mean, and one thing you can look at is 669 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: the different kinds of beaks that existing birds have. I mean, 670 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,600 Speaker 1: beak diversity is is enormous across the aviens that used 671 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: the beaks for all kinds of different things. We should 672 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: come back and do an episode on Beaks, just on beaks. Yes, 673 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: And we can also talk about the movie Beaks, which 674 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: is maybe the most painful bad horror movie I've ever watched. Yeah, 675 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: it's a rip off of Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds. Uh 676 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: And so it's just about birds attacking people. That that's 677 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: That's pretty much all you need to know, except it 678 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: just happens to have this distinction. And you know me, 679 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: I'm somebody who watches tons of bad horror movies. It's 680 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: probably the most excruciating one I ever tried to finish. 681 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,080 Speaker 1: So that would you say this is worse than Bird Dimmick, 682 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, No, Bird Dimmick is a joy by comparison, 683 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's I'm not saying it's worse from 684 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: a filmmaking skill point of view, but Burdemic was much 685 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: more enjoyable and it was easy to make it through 686 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 1: the runtime. Beaks is a film that one of the things, 687 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: one of the things I think about it is that 688 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 1: it has a soundtrack with like a really uh just 689 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: grading synthesizer score that has songs. They're not really songs. 690 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: It's like a single very high pitch synthesizer note held 691 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: down for minutes at a time, it starts to just 692 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: wear on you as if you you think you have 693 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: something wrong with your ears or your brain. It's like 694 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: a it's a soundtrack that mimics tended us or something, 695 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 1: and it's just really ugly to watch. Anyway, we got sidetracked, 696 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: but yes, I think we should come back to an 697 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: episode on beaks, because yeah, beak diversity is is amazing, 698 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: and so I guess that brings us back to the 699 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 1: actual goose mouth. The serrated edges inside there along the tongue, 700 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,439 Speaker 1: along the beak edges. If those aren't teeth, what's going 701 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: on there with those little jagged spines. Uh? So, the 702 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: serrated edges in a modern birds beak that that's made 703 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: of stuff called tone um. These are these little spiny 704 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: cutting edges that can be used kind of like teeth, 705 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: But from what I've read, they're they're not usually for 706 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: what we would think of as chewing. They're more for 707 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 1: grabbing hold of food like plant matter or like live prey, 708 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,680 Speaker 1: and either cutting it or gripping it firmly. So that 709 00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: the bird can like keep hold of it and tear 710 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: it away from anything it's attached to. Uh. So you 711 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: can see this for like, you know, anything that would 712 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: be eating like plant matter and trying to tear it 713 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: away from whatever, like the stem or something. Or you 714 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: can see it for grabbing hold of a fish and 715 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: making sure it doesn't get away. It's just generally useful 716 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: for like hooking stuff into the mouth, and of course 717 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,040 Speaker 1: and for cutting um and for for a bonus in 718 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 1: bird relatives that also lost their teeth. If you haven't 719 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: looked at this, you should check out the mouths of 720 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,280 Speaker 1: leather back sea turtles. Have you seen this one, Robert, 721 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: I don't know that I have. I've seen leather back 722 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: sea turtles before, but in the wild, but but I 723 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: didn't get a good look in their mouth. Well, actually, 724 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: I think with Katie we were talking about some viral 725 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: images of animal mouths that you think like, Okay, that's 726 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,400 Speaker 1: got to be photoshopped, but actually it turns out to 727 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 1: be totally real. Leather back sea turtle mouths are like this. 728 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: They there's some of the photos of them make the 729 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,359 Speaker 1: rounds on the internet, and it looks like a made 730 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 1: up monster mouth that somebody is passing off as a fake, 731 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,720 Speaker 1: real animal. It's totally real. It looks like a vivid 732 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,400 Speaker 1: you know, somebody took the bad acid nightmare of It's 733 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: hard to explain because these are the ones they look 734 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: they're swirly looking kind of Yeah, they don't so it's 735 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,839 Speaker 1: not rows of teeth again, they're turtles that they don't 736 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: have teeth, but they are these thorns. It's like a 737 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: thorn forest. Imagine a sort of fractal sarlac on steroids 738 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: with even more teeth, this forest of thorns going down 739 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,280 Speaker 1: the esophagus. And what this actually is, it's not teeth, 740 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: but it's a covering of cartilage based prongs that are 741 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: known as esophageal pappally, which what they do is they 742 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: help the leather back sea turtle hold onto its prey, 743 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: which primarily consists of jellyfish. So imagine you're trying to 744 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: eat a jellyfish, this organism that's kind of squishy and 745 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: mostly made of water in the water. Yeah, you might 746 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: imagine that it's kind of hard to like get that 747 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: in the mouth and keep it from slipping out of 748 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: the mouth, especially if you're trying to like eject seawater 749 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: back out of the mouth while you're eating it and 750 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: then to shove it along down through the esophagus. And 751 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: apparently the sea turtles have these long digestive tracks that 752 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: can hold a whole bunch of jellyfish in them all 753 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: at the same time while they're sort of waiting to 754 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: be processed by the stomach. So yeah, this thorn forest 755 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: in the mouth is mainly for grabbing hold of these 756 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: gelatinous masses of prey and holding them in place so 757 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,479 Speaker 1: that they don't slip away. But again another example of 758 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 1: it's not teeth, but they they fulfill some of the 759 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: purposes that we associate with teeth. Yeah, so that's that's interesting. 760 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: If if teeth did not exist, necessary to invent the 761 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: All right, well this has been fun, Robert, Yeah, absolutely 762 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: uh and you know, we again, we only covered so 763 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: many teeth there. There are other amazing examples out there, 764 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: and if anyone listening can think of some really good ones, 765 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, uh, let us know, because we could always 766 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: come back and do another sack full of teeth on 767 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: the show. And I would love to do beaks. I 768 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: was get I was up close and personal with a 769 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: two can the other day and um, you know, it's 770 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 1: just always amazing to look at a beak like that, 771 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I'd love to go through the world 772 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: of beaks. In the meantime, if you want to check 773 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 1: out more episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you 774 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,479 Speaker 1: can go to stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 775 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: That's the mother ship, that's where you'll find them. You'll 776 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: find various links there as well. Uh and hey, if 777 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: you want to support the show about the best thing 778 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: you can do is to rate and review us wherever 779 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: you have the power to do so, and make sure 780 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: that you have subscribed to not only Stuff to Blow 781 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,240 Speaker 1: Your Mind, but also our other show invention. Huge thanks 782 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: as always to our excellent audio producers Seth Nicholas Johnson 783 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: and Maya Cole. If you would like to get in 784 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 785 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: just a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 786 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 787 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is 788 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more 789 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,439 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 790 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.